Heavy Weaponry in Mech Center Torso
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- For a long time i thinks about putting really heavy weaponry in to the Center Torso of the Mech. And in fact the game allows us to do this.
Music: Neurotech - The Tide is Rising
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There is no room in the center torso because the original makers of the game wanted you to put ammo there so your mech will die in one lucky hit :-)
well one lucky hit to the ammo in the side torso also kills a mech so I'd say the spirit of the OG designers intention is preserved. But at the same time if you manage to deplete most of the ammo or have case you get to survive which is a cool way to balance survivability vs ammo amount.
You can have this effect also by putting a gauss rifle in the CT, as seen with the Stalker.
This is more proof of concept than reliable design. Rule of cool too. Its also show how deep and worked out the rules are.
From an in-lore perspective: I would imagine the biggest reasons that large weapons aren't installed in the center torso: armor and target prioritization. The CT already has the engine and gyro, putting one of the mech's biggest weapons there would only further encourage shooting at it so you're taking out not only the integral components, but now also disabling a big weapon even if you don't core it. And the decreased armoring that would be possible because of the big honking weapon there would only make every previous issue I just listed even more prominent: while games may make it possible, in a realistic situation you can't put anywhere near as much armor on the center torso when the space the armor would be is taken up with a weapon of some kind, and the lowered armor feeds back into that targeting priority issue, because now not only is the center target a more valuable target to HIT, but it's easier to cause damage to it by way of there being less armor there to shield the big components.
All that said, those models you rigged up look DOPE, especially that Stalker. The Stalker one actually strikes me one that could actually work, mitigating the armoring issue because of the shape of the armor there.
On the other hand, such weaponry add some protection to the Mech overall. Tabletop wise that extra seven slot in CT that weapon occupies are protecting the crucial component like Gyro and Engine from critical hits. For example it much better to receive crit to an AC/10 or PPC than to a Engine or Gyro. (Don't work with the Gauss rifle, Gauss explosion can destroy CT completely). Furthermore extra criticals have 50% chance to hit already disabled weapon further protecting Engine and Gyro.
That Awesome is... beautiful.
I've been toying around with a few custom mech designs. Compact engine and gyro lets you mount a 7-crit device in the center torso. That's enough for a middle-weight autocannon or, like I prefer, a heavy PPC with capacitor. Just have to manage weight reducing options elsewhere.
Or three Large Laser. HPPC with capacitor are good idea, at least it will not explode 20 damage.
I'm a simple man. I see an Ukrainian mech enthusiastic. I press like and I subscribe. 😊
Compact equipment really isn't worth it. Weight wise, you sacrifice 50% of a standard model's weight, or up to 2t for a Gyro for 2 slots, but 13.5t for an Engine for 4 slots, or 26.5t for a Compact Engine Charger, ie something stupid.
Hit Location and Crit wise, given that Torso mounted weapons only fire into the Front Facing, meaning all hits will also land within the Front Facing, you have a 16.66% to hit Center with an additional 2.77% chance for a Center Crit, compared to the Side Torso's 13.88% chance with a 0% Crit, for a +40% greater chance to hit Center. While Armor and Structure wise, Center can have +47% more armor or structure, but with the afore mentioned crit chance the 7% difference doesn't really seem like enough.
Take your Thunderbolt for Instance, instead of a Compact Engine, you could instead have +4t of Hardened Armor, if spread evenly would increase your Side Torso's armor by +32% or up to +87.5% if focused. Course you would become more reliant on those Jump Jets, but with a 3/5/3 I assume you already were. Though you don't need to be if you use Patchwork Armor Rules and don't put any Hardened Armor on the Legs.
You are correct. But nevertheless it this type of engine exist.
If you want to dig into the experimental rules, you can always go for an Interface Cockpit. This not only eliminates the need for a gyro, freeing up considerable center torso space, but also provides gunnery and piloting bonuses. The Interface Cockpit also requires the Mechwarrior to be wearing a light suit of power armor to control this experimental system, providing the Mechwarrior with redundant life support, extra damage resistance, and a nifty escape option if they have to eject.
This does come with a couple of slight downsides, however. The cybernetic implants needed to operate this system are extremely invasive, and any heavy damage to the 'Mech can result in nasty neural shock to the Mechwarrior. These same implants also have the unfortunate side-effect of gradually driving the Mechwarrior insane as they damage their neural tissue, eventually leading to death in as little as a couple of years.
Crockett looks like the Autobot Warpath
Is there any practical reason to actually do these kinds of builds?
They do seem to provide some crit defence (aside from the gauss ones) but is it worth the tonnage costs?
Also I'm pretty sure you can install heavy weaponry that can be split into the CT anyway.
You can, but then there's weapon parts that are in the less protected side torsos. There's also the advantage that a weapon can soak up hits that would normally end up dinging the gyro or engine shielding. Personally, I think even just going with a compact gyro has some nice benefits, enough to fit the main gun(s) of many medium-light machines in the spot they're least likely to lose them before total destruction.
Artillery weapons like the thumper and sniper are so massive that they take up all the arm and corresponding torso section.
One thing about the CT section is that the mech is still active if it is not destroyed, and the pilot is still able to operate it. The zombie mech concept is basically have a weapons in the center torso so it can keep shooting until the mech or pilot is absolutely destroyed. The champion tries to follow this by forgoing the flexibility of having arm mounted weaponry and mount them to the three Toro sections while using the arms as damage sinks. This setup allows most of the weapons to be mounted in the most defensible spot at the rest of upper body is basically a massive shock absorber.
*CHAMPION ES NUMERO UNO*
these are not even bad designs considering they are very resiliant to damage(outside of the gauss stalker, I would not put a gauss in the CT ever)
this is more proof of concept than reliable design, but Ac/10 in CT is not a bad choice. It can soak up critical hits instead of engine and gyro.
Love the paint schemes. Very cool!
It’s a concept I have played around with a few times, though I often run into the same issues. Namely while you can mount a heavy weapon in the CT, a weapon still can only take 1 critical hit. The main reason you would take compact engines and gyros is for either more crit slots or crit padding: where to protect the gyro and engine you stuff the CT full as much alternate targets for critical slots. So using all that weight to only put one very large weapon defeats the purpose of crit padding.
In addition with some rules depending on the angle the CT can take more or less critical hits, meaning having a single big object there while would protect the engine, also increases the chance of suffering a critical hit. Making it easier to lose that big CT weapon.
What you need is to put multiple weapons or equipment in the compacted CT to have the best effect. Or as I go when I put a big weapon there, give it some thematic design quirks to explain its choice: like stabilised weapon or accurate.
Nonetheless it is really fun thing to build around.
One way this is subverted is in super heavy designs. Super heavies ‘compact’ all critical hit slots on equipment to a minimum of 1. So a LB-X with 6 crit slots would only take up 3 on a super heavy: the true superpower of super heavies being the amount of stuff you can cram into them. Because of this engines and gyros on super heavy design act in the same way as a compact engine and gyro, taking up only 3 and 2 slots respectively: rather than 6 and 4.
The Omega, the first functional superheavy took advantage of this to install one of its 3 Gauss rifles in the CT.
I always thought it would be cool if you could install the gyro in a torso side.
A pair of specialized mini gyros, kinda makes sense.
Thing is, I'd imagine it'd have the same vulnerability as an IS XL engine: Lose 'half' your gyro, and whole 'mech becomes inoperable.
Nice video about the compact engine.
And now we have the skinwalker.
All these are cool, but my favorites have to be the Stalker and Awesome.
Hi what is the Mech at 0:18? it looks really cool but I have never seen it before
Hellfire
Nobody mentioning crit-splitting, you can fit a Hgauss in CT with some crits in a side torso, you can even pair a AC20 into a arm i think it removes its ability to aim past the torso weapons though.
Cuz engine and gyro systems take most critical slots in ct. Crockett is an old Star League training mech.
I just wonder how long till an especially deranged mech tech makes a frankenmech with a tandem fusion reactor setup.
Why have one reactor go crit when you can have two, one for each side torso.
I think one issue would be the independent targetting. You'd need to adjust your Torso very specifically to make up even for small deviations I suppose.
Not to say it's impossible and I think for SOME weapons that works rather well but... I can imagine it being a bit inconvienient.
Compact engine and gyro, also with Cockpit mounted torso. You can free up 4 slots in the head. Doing this makes the mech expensive and takes a hit in weight. If it's a clan chassis the weight for weapons is fine. IS not so much.
My friends and i allowed off set engines and gyros. The problem them became lack of armor in those locations. Even if you messed around with the armor point diagram, you still have the hit locations chart. Its still a fun idea to mess around with.
beautiful mechs all around ^^
That Awesome though!
you could also fit 7 clan er large lasers in the ct. because why not
Спасибо за видо. Только сделай голос чуть погромче, и я был бы рад скачать рекордшиты этого добра...
Что касается оружия в ЦТ, есть правило переноса оружия. Например у Кинг Краба KGC-0000 АС-20 занимают все руки и по 2 слота в полуторсах. Странно что разработчики не воспользовались этим правилом. Если нужен каноничный мехлаб рекомендую MegaMek, а если совсем заняться нечем - почитать Tech Manual.
Shh shh shh, learn to love the laser dong. Grasshopper has one, and more mechs should as well. ER Large Laser dong, with a Medium laser as a cigarette for... afterwards...
SLAVA UKRAINI!!!
Ukrainians are great at solving problems.
All because that's how FASA designed the record sheet and everyone is to stuck in the mud to do any different.
It's one of those things they handwaved in the early editions and nobody really paid any attention until later. My guess is that one simple retcon could fix the whole issue, that is the option to decentralize the engine and move parts of it to the side torso to make more room.
Alternatively, split weapon criticals into weapon + weapon ammo feed and maybe weapon stabilizers, so you could distribute the weapon across multiple components. Each component would need to be in the same or adjacent location to the main component.
e.g. an AC/20 would be 5 slots for the AC/20 itself, 2 slots for the AC/20 ammo feed, and 3 slots for the AC/20 shock absorber. This gives you more flexibility in weapon mounting, but more chance of losing the weapon to criticals or component loss.
As a balance issue, I'd say Omnimechs must keep all weapon criticals in the same location.
The superheavy class of mechs and advanced rules external mounts will allow your visions. Your take on it is cool. What is your favorite paint brand?
That Stalker though... MmmmmMMMMMM!
This can be viewed as a twofold comment. Heh
@@gae_wead_dad_6914 Like the Stalker, it is very versatile.
Gaussback we pray 🙏🙏🙏
this is so cool. i love battle tech
An interesting concept, it takes the champion to the extreme by having all the weapons in a spot that will most likely survive the longest. Why i use the champion is because it ditches arm mounts secure its weapons payload in the torsos while relying on the arms to shield the body in combat. In mw 5, its a great build because you can angle the incoming fire to hit the arms and i have done several missions where i sacrificed the arms to keep the torso sections, and weapons as intact as possible.
However this build has some downsides, not only is compact variants take up more weight they are more sensitive to critical damage as well. I believe its 2 engine or 1 gyro hit is enough to cripple the mech. Dont roll a two on the front hit locations.
I like these. I should play around with the Compact stuff more. but this does lead me to another idea; I've been slowly making my own Battletech supplement that adds new weapons, variants, and equipment. what if we had an engine that weighs the same as the standard, but moves 4 of the critical slots to the side torsos. A wide engine if you will, where it puts 2 crit slots into each sides and takes up 4 less in the center. that would get us 6 slots total there with a standard gyro.
CERPPC or 2x CERLL
can't honestly say if this is a shidpost or a dream come true