For clarity. In his video, he described it as a new wheelset. He thinks it's ok to take the bearings out, then put them back in and sell the wheels on. The bearings will get damaged as you remove them as the balls will dig into the races. Whilst I accept this is done frequently, on a brand new set of wheels and an unsuspecting customer, I think this is totally unacceptable. On the subject of the flare, his diagram in his video showed a completely flat tube, I was pointing out that this is not the case on his own wheels. I've taken loads of wheels apart, I've never seen one with a flare in it, or one that was heavily distorted despite being brand new. I'm also dubious as to whether these wheels are factory fresh, I think the bearings have been removed before. The positioning of the puller legs on the spoke holes are to put it mildly "undesirable".
1:19 these are quite different examples of hammer use (hitting the whole axle) for a completely different hub design. In your case it was a hammer hitting a screwdriver pointed at one side of the inner race of the bearing which potentially can lead to the damage of the bearing seats in the soft aluminium hub due to uneven forces pushing the bearing out. Do you think the hub body is less crucial than a spacer? Also, it’s not clear how badly was the spacer damaged based on blurry screenshots.
I'm no mechanic, just a guy who fixes his own bikes. Saw the vid about hammering them out the hunt. Got to say I did use his method of pulling them out with a cheap set of Chinese pullers. I thought he was right but actually watching this, I think you are right because I really struggled to get the pre load right afterwards. Win win space I used your method to push out.
@@Hambini Hi guy's, thanks for this very instructive technical discussion. Yes, you did say that, but comparing these completely different examples can be misleading for novice mechanics. IHMO, purposely misleading in order to prove your point😛
@@Hambini Do you think that a good hub design should include a 0.3 mm chamfer or even a cavity on the spacer tube? This is definitely nitpicking but why not?
Professional mechanic for nearly 30 years. Pro Team mechanic for over 10 seasons, at the UCI level. I've preferred and used a hammer and drift forever. I NEVER use a blind puller for exactly the reason(s) you've described.
Hate to say it but Hambini is wrong, again. 1) Hambini's attempt to show that the spacer is deformed is misleading as he explains the up tick of the light deflection on the opposite side of the spacer that never was touched by the bearing puller. Watch from 23:22-23:48 of Reginald’s video for a masterclass in slight of hand. The deflection of light is more likely to be oil or grease. 2) This is a steel spacer. And at 18:11 of Reginald's video it's pretty obvious that the amount of torque applied to the bearing puller is not enough to deform the spacer. You would need to buldge the steel spacer beyond it's yield point for it to deform. That's not what happens. 3) At 22:47 of Reginald's video you can see that the bearing puller does not extend beyond the bearing, certainly no where near enough to damage the spacer. As one who has worked with mechanical engineers in the bicycle industry, as well as someone who has replaced hundreds of hub bearings, and many a crushed aluminum freehub spacers from the early days of road disc, I can only say beware of ad hominem slinging experts.
WTF NO HHF, NO hairdresser, no pen is working, no swearing. We don't usually see Professional Hambini! He thought he'd reamed you and you've buried him. Lot's of people took that video as though it was gospel and then he trashed his own spacer and f888ed up the preload and didn't even notice. Gold..
Having done , in the last year over 200 wheel bearings for a neighbours wheelchair basket ball teams , which although dont have a sleeve, more of a solid stop inside the hub for the bearings to seat on. A simple piece of wood on the bench, a drift and a copper mallet and reasonable drifting around the bearings make them come out and not damage anything. Using studding ,. washers and sockets , means winding them back in is quick and easy. There is no gap behind the bearing for any blind puller, so drifting is the only answer. Also Hope hubs. Sliding the central sleeve to one side. After the first tap, the sleeve comes loose enough to be able to vary your tapping to make sure the bearing comes out parallel and not damage the inside of the hub. These I used studding and sockets to refit new bearings. Been doing this process for years and never had an issue. Glad to say my DT Swiss are still factory fresh , even after many miles to work on them.
I agree with the main point. There are also expanding pullers, that by friction force grab the inner race and can be pulled or hammered out. Save spacer and hub, bearings can be trashed. In material engineering part, my area: Ball bearings are most often made from 1%C 1,5% Cr (100Cr6=AISI 52100, no Molybden). I wont say that "CrMo" is a wrong description, as OVAKO makes 100CrMo7, steel similar to 100Cr6 with added Mo, but most machinist asociate "CrMo" with a AISI 4130=25CrMo4~"chromoly steel", commonly used for frame construction. I am not nitpicking the values 100HV and 1000HV as it is only for a ballpark orientation. If anyone has more interest, continue reading: When it comes to hardness, thank You for using the Vickers scale( as from HV one can estimate Ultimate Tensile Strength by multiplying HV[kgf/mm^2] times 3,33 to get UTS[N/mm^2=MPa]. In your example aluminum would have UTS of 333 MPa( aluminum alloy can easily have that, "pure" aluminium with UTS ~90 MPa is not commonly used for strucural application , bearing steel would have UTS of 3333 MPa ( high probability, that it would crack before that, but in compression test that could be close to reality). I personally have measured bearing race hardness of 765HV10 (62,7HRC) of brand new KOYO 6204, old east German (DDR) bearings:790HV10=63,6HRC and the hardest were old russian "USSR" 6305 bearings: 836HV10=65,1HRC. Thank you for your service ;) Best regards
What I like on this response video, that it was more educational than a reponse. And it was not directed on the mechanic itself. One thing are stupid jokes and other is your professionalism. Perfect! Thank you.
Haven’t seen the blind bearing pulling video, but from your explanation it’s easy to judge which is the most efficient, sensible and widely used technique! Even hairdressers know gentle tapping on just the right spot is often a pretty good and effective way to ease a release. 😊
Yes that’s very important in life, whatever you do only ever listen to one side of the story. That way you are always protected from the other perspective and you won’t risk seeing or hearing anything that might conflict with your current view. 😉
@@reginaldscot165 you’re absolutely correct mate. It is indeed important to listen to both sides of any argument. This is especially important if you are uncertain the message you are hearing from either side is not well researched, accurate or appears biased. As I stated this video presented both sides of the key element - that pulling with a specific tool does not cause damage whereas the tapping method can. It then presented entirely believable direct evidence that whilst one side stated pulling caused no damage, this did not appear to be correct. So, in this case, with a sample size of one, bearing pulling caused damage, to the internal sleeve. Based on that ‘it’s easy to judge which is the most efficient and sensible technique’. Widely used may not be accurate as only the advice from companies to use tapping could be presented not directly how many people follow the advice. p.s. I have now watched the video.
As a pissed-up ham-fisted backyard motorcycle tinkerer I feel I have to wade in here. Blind bearing pullers are a complete pain in the arse, getting them to seat correctly without damage is more chance than feel, and if the bearing is stuck the potential for damage is high.
Motorcycles are ok, they have sturdy spacers. Get the puller in, tighten until snug, drag along the spacer until gap is found, tighten a bit more by hand and give it a tap, tighten to final size and pull out.
I’m just gonna say it. There is more then one way to do things….. that’s all it is. Figuring out how it works and the how the best way to remove it for that person
Regarding the screenshot at 7:15, I think the flared part is the other side of the tube. Meaning, the side that the puller didn't touch. He pulls the tube out with his right hand, so the part that touched the puller is now at the bottom and the opposite side now is at the top.
The correct way to get a beating out, is to fit an expanding arbor into the inner race. Then tap been vee shape shaft into the split arbor, which will expand the arbor, and allow the bearing to be removed by continuing to tap vee shaft. No damage to bearing or spacer. Trying a blind bearing puller, or a punch of some sort are both bodge methods and far from ideal.
I think you mean no damage to the spacer because there is no bearing puller contact with it (Hambini's point) and no damage to the hub because there is no isolated point loading from an offset force of the hammer whacked punch (Reginald's point). Query though damage to the bearing as you are concentrating the extraction force on the inner that must be translated through the bearing to the outer to over come the friction hold on it by the hub (Hambini's closing point)?
@@thisandthatandotherthings If bearings were made that were unable to cope with quite heavy radial loadings, they would fail very quickly. Spilt arbour bearing puller, and a slide hammer, will remove pretty much any bearing without damage, very easily.
I've used soft metal drift to remove bearing and I've also used pullers it's depends on the situation. You must be incremental and methodical, basically use some finesse and you won't cause damage or wear to the ID of the seat-interference. Some outer races are chamfered but not all. Another thing is you don't remove bearing 'cartridges' to refit so drift removal is done to a non serviceable part.
I have read all of this with interest and enjoy the respect and free and open discussion, so I thought that I would throw in my '2p' as well. Whilst I have done plenty of hammering of hub/bearings, I can say that I have also used an internal bearing puller in a similar situation, but in my cases there were differences. 1) The puller will normally expand and grip onto the inside on the inner race and grip by friction. The expansion bolt can create a lot of forceby it's wedging action and bicycle hubs hardly have much of an interference fit (more likely corrosion, or a light bearing fix. 2) There was clearance to the spacer tube to get a light set to hook under the bearing. Observations: In both cases a bearing puller works nice and easily and is very controlled, however my puller has a a presser plate and I make adapters and also add a soft facing where required. This spreads out load and protects the important bits. This works with traditional press fitter inner races, but who can get spares for them now and has time to strip and set up a traditional hub, or us the spring flared press tools. Like a suitable press foot/tool; It is also good to use a similar mounting tool, such as the Hope tool (I think they call it a vice or anvil) but these are relatively soft and elastic compared to steel. In the Hope video he is also using a Thor soft faced hammer which also limits the shock and peak force, which makes hammering a drift or pin punch into quite a subtle process. Tubes: The inner tubes have been discribed in the discussion as both spacers and pre-load tubes. Of course there are many designs in the market, but I believe that these are generlly just spacers. My understanding is that these tubes are being used as bearing spacers to avoid excessive preload (ie side load) of the bearings when the wheel is bolted into the frame. The pressing of the bearings is just to a nominal stop and not to a final measured length, so there is no way of establishing what preload has been applied and retained in the tube. I would have thought that it's use for preload would have been as a crush tube, to get a calibrated value of force to deform of a defined initiation form, but then they would clearly be scrapped and replaced each time, just like in vehicle tranmissions and final drive units. Maybe it is using the elasticity of squeezing down a thin walled tube? I am intrigued to find out. Either way, a spacer or a pre-load tube, should avoid damage that can effect it's length or form, so care is needed any way. This is just like the in the referenced video for distortion to the hub shell and bearing recess, although the use of a point loaded press negates that. It is possible to use several methods, with care, sympathy and an understanding of the risks. I fully welcome this debate as it allows discussion of methods and concerns for us all to learn. This then also allows the controlled and careful use of simple tools like just a ground up nail, hammer, a block of wood and the floor, as is done in many a shed or repair shop in places where funding and tools are not available.
Frankly, I didn't watch the Reginal Scot video when I saw it come up in my feed as I figured it was probably a Dunder\Krueger scenario. Seeing your video shed all the light I needed to see. If I'm removing bearings from a hub they're toast anyhow. The only time I could see having to remove a good bearing is if I were a knob and put an angular bearing in the wrong way around. In an era where the bearing is a minimal cost component, just beat it out and put a new one in....or put the bearing back in anyway and make sure you have a replacement in the post.
as a bike mechanic myself , i can say with much experience , dont listen to bike mechanics with tool fetishes . drifting bearings out with care and respect for the accompanying component is the best way to go . i have seen customers bikes with tool damage from other mechanics , after 35 years of careful removal of press fit bearings with a hammer and drift i have had zero problems , with blind pullers the hub shell can also become damaged to the extent of having to sand the leading edge of the hub after a puller has marred the bejesus out of a £1000 wheelset., especially with the cottage cheese some hub shells are made of . blind pullers should only be used when the bearing for extraction is in an orifice that has been designed for such a tool and specified by the manufacturer . keep reaming and may the hairdresser be with you .😘
Love hearing someone who actually understands this stuff explaining it so well. Why do some freebies use these spacers instead if just having a stop/shoulder/whatever it’s called for the bearing to stop/rest on when pressed in? I’ve only had one hub (novatec I think) with one of these spacers and it’s utter shite! Press the bearing in with too much force and they start binding up (axle downs want to spin properly.too little force and the threaded preload adjusting end caps end up compressing the bearing sand causing them to bind up especially when pedaling backwards at speed. It seems impossible to ensure the bearings are perfectly aligned. Yet in every other hub I’ve had (tune, alchemy, hope, carbon Ti, extralite, others I can’t remember) I’ve never had a single issue with this. Servicing has always been as easy as pop tye old bearings out, press the new ones in. Could do it in the dark. These spacers in the freehub just baffle me.
Nothing to be ashamed of. Whenever proved wrong, I am grateful to learn something new. Hambini has proved to be open minded and receptive to improvements. Bravo Hambini!
You can get bearing devices that grasp the inside of the bearing using jaws and a bolt (very similar to the one in the video). It has no arms, you hit the end of the bolt from the other side using a punch / bolt and the bearing is forced out
YES! those are the correct tools to use! Seem to me that you tubers just like to brawl it out most times without bothering to find / recommend better practise. I love hambini, and understand that he like having a bash at things!
As a bike mechanic, 100% use a soft blow hammer, bearing pullers are great if there's nothing behind the bearing that you can damage but when pretty much every major manufacturer says to use a hammer, you use a hammer. The hilarious part is (and I know you were talking rear hubs here but still) that there is plenty of hubs where bearing pullers are actually impossible to use anyway, my front hubs on both my bikes and spare wheels are a prime example, the hub axle is the drift to remove the bearings and sits completely through the bearings when its full assembled, so the only way is to take off the end caps, then hammer them out one side at a time using the axle.
Worked on bikes for the best part of 20 years. Never once used a puller on sealed bearing freehubs of this specific style. Worn bearings have always been chapped out carefully and freshies pressed in accordingly. Best damage the old bearing that's being replaced rather than the driver/ internals 😉.
@@stevemorley if the tolerances are tight to begin with there is a minimal rocking motion. When the bearing is tapped, the bearing outer body is not going to focus energy in one point and suffer any galling. The fact that the fit is tight to begin with and the outer edge is always radiused, translates into movement like a piston in a cylinder. So basically get over it👍
@@stevemorley No point missed, you clearly don't work on bikes. Had you done, you would have understood that comment. You will not damage the hub body by chapping the bearings, if you're careful and know what you're doing. You will however damage the hub body by 'smashing' the hub body or using the wrong tool.
You can hammer them in and out with a drift (if you are careful), but a puller/press is better. So they are both right - apart from the bit about it being the only way.
With good points on both sides, There needs to be a better design for the spacer and removal method thought out and implemented by engineers/designers of course taking into account cost and tooling practicality.
Spacer (or often a machined shoulder on some sort of shafting) between the bearings IS the standard way to set preload in many applications. Oth some modest skill and care taken in removal also suffices.
Bike Mechanic for over 20 years here and you get these spacers in hubs and in the pivots of full sus frames and the companies that think about removal sometimes machine notches in these tubes so you have better access to tap the bearings out, rare though.
I have a hammer blind hole puller for a couple of oddball hubs that don't have a way to tap out the bearings with drifts. Also if I want to give myself a nice freaking blood blister on the webbing between my thumb and finger. But those don't have a spacer in them, but rather hard stops in the hub, so the hammering pull needs to engage just the inner race of the cartridge and hopefully not tear things apart. Every time I have to service those hubs, I wish I were on a cup and cone.
So according to Reginald Scott, using a hammer and center punch can result in damage to the hub. According to Hambini, using a bearing puller can damage the spacer, which can mess with bearing preload, etc. So who is right? Probably both of them.
Interesting. A good explanation. I remember using bearing pullers on larger electric motors and engine governor. When shaft had been damaged it ended up the outer race pulled off and the inner race ground and split so the shaft end could be cleaned.
Hambini, can confirm your statement about the center tube ("preload sleeve") not being clearanced for use with blind hole pullers, even on MTB bottom brackets. I have 3 PF30 MTB and Dub MTB brackets from BBinfinite and you would flare out the thin-walled aluminum tube if you used a blind puller. The preload sleeves are *exactly* the same size as the inner race of the bearing and the only relief is the bearing chamfer as shown on the right side of your diagram at 3:15. Once you dimensionally change that tube, even slightly, you may as well throw it away. I know you're not the biggest fan of BBinfinite but Gary's bearing removal videos agree with you.
Now retired & worked in the construction plant and maintenance i had a set of blind bearing pullers from SKF these were simply a tool treaded one end & a ball turned on the other end but machined flat 2 sides ( looked like a lolly pop ) you picked the right ball diamater inserted into where the race cage was and turned it 90deg to lock into the ball run then withdraw as normal , this of course distroyed the cage but as the bearing was being replaced it was not an issue ...........
Great video as always Hambini! I have to say I used a Rubber/soft mallet in the past and never had any issues, Even more so when the old ones have fallen to bits due to neglected maintenance 😂
I watched this and the video by that other guy. Don't understand why people get so upset. Going to keep using my appropriate sized egg cup (plastic NOT ceramic), cast iron pan and cutlery to knock bearings in and out.
A great response from an engineer who just wanted to point out that both methods worked just one was a hell of a lot easier and capable by most people with an once of intelligence,Well done Hambini..........
Excellent response vid Hambini, I have to fit industrial wheel bearings in my work, we use hydraulic pullers with 15t of pressure, sometimes it goes wrong and you end up with a lump hammer and copper drift, sometimes you have to use those techniques because it works.
@@bjmaston A pin punch works better , because it doesn't have the chamfered edge. The chamfered edge of the brass drift causes the force of the hammering to be directed toward the hub inner wall, rather than straight outward.
Reminds me of the constant battle for changing ball joints. There is the sledge hammer method or the press method. Most of us will just smack it with whatever hammer we have lying around.
Hm, as a mechanical design engineer I would say that it's a bad design if the preload spacer has no gap for pulling tool. Or the pulling tool should have the same small lip as the radius of bearing. I can see that hammering is a solution of praxis but in a perfect world you should press the bearing in AND out. And the design should consider this. Here we have bicycle design, low weight, carbon, alu, sensitive to forces and shocks. Never ever would I take a hammer as standard solution for such thin walled precise machined bearing housings in a spoked wheel. Mechanic impuls is the last answer if something went wrong before.
This is the right answer. I said the same in the comment above: it's just a bad design and neither Hambini, nor Reginald are at fault here. If the inner wall of the spacer sits flush with circumference of the inner wall of the bearing's race, it's a bad design. Either way a mechanic will damage the hub shell or whacking the whole circumference of the spacer with expander puller. IMO, both reamers are not at fault here. It's just one-way design of the hub, where you can easily fit the bearing in, but have no way to take it out.
Doesn't a preload spacer assume perfection of all other variables and is this very realistic? What is so wrong with careful preload instructions that are repeatable or measurable with a fine torque wrench? To a certain extent these bikes do not play with the same gravity of assembly/disassembly/repair precision as other high end machinery right?
Fantastic breakdown of exactly why these blind bearing pullers are a tool for bearing removal, not THE tool for bearing removal. Hammer and appropriate punch is the go-to for the job and the blind puller is the backup for when you cannot get to the underside of the bearing. I wonder why they are called blind* bearing pullers?/s
I also cringed at your hammer technique, I partnered with FSA, HED, Fulcrum and the brand I work for have our version of the hunt wheels. We'd tell our customers to send them back to us and we'll do it for them. His current video correcting this clip is more correct I'm sorry to say. Lesson learned I hope, Both move on now.
🔥 😬 Seriously though, thanks for this one. I watched his video and even for me who works in a bike shop it appeared a legitimate and sensible approach. It's actually something I've thought about previously, as I was concerned that when hitting the bearing out it's impossible to completely avoid knocking it to an angle and thus deforming the bearing seat. Could you please comment on this with technical detail, or perhaps a follow up video, with why this isn't an issue..? Hopefully he has the humility to go back and look closely if he did in fact cause any damage to the spacer. I don't believe someone can actually be a good mechanic without the ability to admit when they get something wrong..
I looked at is puller, the flare has a flat side facing the spacer. This means to me that as you gently expand the flare to connect with the radius on the ball race, it cannot damage the spacer to any degree. Perhaps if the spacer was aluminium it might create some scuffing, but the same would happen with a hammer and punch. I looked at new sealed bearings and they ALL have a radii on both external edges.
@@JohnnyMotel99 You are correct. 👍🏻 It’s a shame the above mechanic has thrown away the evidence of his own eyes and ignores the fact Hambini is actively Misrepresenting what took place in my video. 🤷🏻♂️
@Reginald Scot youre video was great, and I love this technical discussion. I hope you do a follow-up . Personally, I would say the spacer was not flared because you were careful. On the other hand, I get habini's point. All this is very instructive. Thanks!
Just uploaded a video on this, then you responded to my challenge instantly. Good work! I do believe we have some oversize BBs with all this REAMING! 😮😅
Hambini, I saw the video, and he has a point. If the bearings came out gentler using the puller, then that’s the better way, not a drift. Yea the puller foot placement was sketchy, but nothing a few large fender washers or similar plate couldn’t fix to help distribute the load. If the bearing and tube have the chamfers (or not), I’d say the puller was the way to go, and using the drift, once I’d created a gap enough to prevent damage to the tube, I’d go in and use a blind puller rest of the way, just to be able to pull the bearing out with equal pressure and keep from causing any damage to the hub outer race bore. Yes, I understand the balls will be damaged regardless.
I was wrong mostly 99% of my decisions made in my life till now. Gutted utterly sometimes … even Space X could go wrong so I give myself room for improvement. Me no mechanic nor a decorated engineer but once in a while I love to see some clever exchange of comments, allow room to make mistakes (hopefully small ones) coz we all do. Just like Marty Friedman said recently ‘You be surprised how little I know about everything’ . No hard feelings hold against Hambini if I may and hopefully no grudges both sides.
Only point that is still unclear to me: he mentioned in his videos that, if you are not careful with your taping, you could deform the body of the hub. Since the bearing is pretty hard and the body is made of aluminium as well it's a possibility right?
@@Hambini Oril is correct though?, that was a point of R. Scott. The hub body could become distorted if its not removed evenly and this could cause fitment issues of the next/new bearing. If I were a bearing manufacturer I would never warranty a bearing that in which I knew the removal of previous was likely to cause poor fitment or uneven interference. If I had to choose between mushed spacer tube or distorted bore I would choose mushed spacer tube everyday. BTW, how could the spacer tube prevent excessive preload when a positive stop exists at bottom of bore??? Didn't you do a video in the past that highlighted the bearing manufactures specified interference and contact geometry on the inboard bearing races? Belt and suspenders approach?, spacer tube are the suspenders? Thank for your work, Hambini.
the trick is not to beat the absolute crap out of it and work your way round slowly, ive seen motorcycle steering head tube frames mauled with less force than this fella was using on that dainty pushrod wheel , tipping the bearing and taking a chunk out of the face. you go very careful when you are risking a a couple of hundred on a new frame plus about a days work to swap frames, tappy tap tap tap.
@@Angle-of-Attack the "positive stop" is only acting as a bearing seat for the outer race. The spacer tube prevents the inner race from suffering excessive clamping force or preload which would cause binding and premature wear
A well thought through response. Nice work hambini. Hopefully Reginald Scott will respond with something suitable. If I was in his shoes, I would post a close up of that preload tube and if it was fluted, I'd apologise and say that I was wrong. A mistake like this, made in good faith isn't the most heinous in the bike industry is it.
The end surface of the puller is flat, unless the flare did not connect with the small gap between spacer and ball race, then it's difficult to see how damage can happen to spacer.
A perfect example of how a small amount of knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. I wonder if he will have the courage to respond/correct his video
Thanks for the interesting as always video. I found it particularly interesting that a what appears to be a more coarse method is in fact better than pulling the bearings out. Keep up the good work in this community.
I watched that video and mostly thought about the legs of the puller destroying the freehub seal and seat. Those preload tubes get ruined and hardly any shops replace them. Often left just wobbling around in there. … or some mechanic just packed it full of grease and hoped no one would notice.
My solution when I was a mechanic back in the 10's was to use a cheap blind hole puller and tighten it up "good-and-tight" on the inner bearing race, and this was enough to grip the bearing for extraction. Doesn't damage the tube and it pulls the bearing out gently and without any angular deflection that could damage the hub shell.
Reminds me of the old joke "How do you know if someone's a pilot" To be fair there are plenty of "as an engineer myself" comments all over social media, I don't tend to read past that part of any reply. There are many disciplines in aeronautical engineering, and many qualified engineers I wouldn't let anywhere near the spanners or a lathe . Hambini clearly has the theory and the practical nous and his products prove this, but always be wary of the word "aerospace" especially in advertsing that wants you to hand over ca$h for shiny new parts
I've been doing "it the wrong way" for decades with regards to hubs not dogging with mine and other people's hairdressers. Although using a puller on first appearance looked like neat way but yeah on closer inspection... oops
I use an anchor bolt to grip the inner race of the bearing then place it on an appropriately sized pvc pipe coupling then tap it out with a drift on the anchor bolt. Costs less than £1.00. Never done it on the arrangement above but if you don't push the bolt all the way through it shouldn't damage the spacer.
I watched the video and it looked like the correct and logical way to do it. The mechanic and I got schooled. Engineering is way to complex for the likes of me.
I don't bother with guys who get mileage out of reaming other TH-camrs success. Didn't bother watching the other guys vid and so glad I didn't. Keep up the good work Hambini
have a look at the hope video, that's is pretty much exactly what I did and my other point is you've got some scenarios where the axles have two integrated lips. the puller won't work in those situations.
Had to replace rear linkage bearings on a carbon specialized stump jumper. The bearings at the top of the seat stay had to be carefully hammered out since the surrounding area was so irregularly shaped and there was just not enough meat to get the pullers to seat. Getting them in was much easier.
Interesting video! So is the "best" approach to tap on the bearing to get about 2mm of slack, then use a bearing puller (slide hammer style) to pull the bearing out to minimize the stress/distortion on the soft aluminum hub?
If the spacer had 2 small “windows or notches” on the end where it contacts the bearings you could then have either a puller that reaches in and has pins or pawls that open up and grab, or, going at it from the other side, you could open the pins up through the holes and tap the bearing out. If this makes sense?
I think regardless of the method used I would want/need a new spacer. Given its thinness I would likely damage it with either the puller or the hammer.
So I punch bearings out all the time but I totally understand why people dont like doing that. Sometimes if you've been a bit overzelous with your punching, you can send the bearing out on an angle which can damage the surface that the bearing presses into. I have done this myself, and it can write off your hub, you just learn to be a bit more tenuous with your punching. Some people just get a bit scared of this happening (particularly on DT hubs which I find to use particularly weak aluminium), so they insist upon using bearing extractors on everything. Seems like a skill issue to me :P
Alt/alt bearings have attempted to address the issue of removing the bearing without the use of an expanding collet and flaring the spacer tube, or hammer and drift. Hambini and a lot of exprrienced bike mechanics are only using the best tools available that will do mthe least amount of damage to the spacer, looks agricultural, but works.
I was waiting for this video😂. Very polite response and very well explained. My overriding thought when he did his demonstration was why was he looking to preserve a bearing that must have been shagged or else why would he be removing it.
the thing is if the spacer becomes flared, the bearing that he declared to be absolute fit for service will now have a very short life because it will be displaced more.
I guess the real problem is there isn't a normal solution to this. Why not make a chanfer in the middle of the bearing to pull? Or some slots in the spacer where a special puller can hook behind? Great video and response btw
Sorry 180 degrees out there. This set is the normal way, yes a castellated ended spacer could be used, or a 'special' bearing with a flanged inner allowing more of a step to grab hold of with a puller would do at a pinch. Are you willing to pay for it though? the special bearings, the special range of tools etc.
@@alan-sk7ky To be fair I own 2k worth on tools just to service my bikes.. This is just a basic set. The bike industry is already full off annoying special tooling. And if the whole industry is going to use it, prices will go down ofcourse. But I do get your point. The castellated ended spacer sounds really like a winner except we might keep te problem of accidentally bending the edges if the tool is to clumsy. A edge in the middle of the bearing feels more durable.
My favourite method is too remove the free body and then put that in an oven at 70 deg C for about 10 min, after which the bearings just drops out of the Aluminium free body as Aluminium expands faster than steel when heated.
I think it's a case of damned if you don't, damned if you do. Using a drift punch with the spacer moved out of the way you invariably cant the bearing inside the bore. Which is also aluminium and thus soft. So you're damaging that too. To be honest I never thought about flaring the spacer using a puller so I will be thinking about this from now one. But my usual MO is to punch out the bearings if they go fairly smoothly while for the more stuck ones I usually punch it a bit to create a gap then use a blind bearing puller in order to pull on it as axially and evenly as possible.
Wait a sec....is my pen working? Yes! apparently my pen is working....Nice! I enjoy and watch your content regularly. All valid points you make,....but... your hairdresser has not addressed some important points this guy made. Most importantly it is not about the bearings. They are replaceable, as you say. The tube in between them is quite cheap to replace as well. The problem is the soft aluminium of the hub you are slowly destroying in the process of removing the bearings this way. (Or did my hairdresser get it wrong?) Me and my personal (by the way fantastic) hairdresser would be happy to see you address this. Thanks in advance. Cheers!
Hmm there was one campagnolo front hub from memory that didn't have the tube at all. Bearings were a frequent event until I sold him a decent set ... The only new wheel part i would take off and refit was the bearing dustcap in the freehub. A few years ago they were not pressed square which, on an ebike, can cause it to throw a chain by unloading the derailleur
If you look closely at the puller flared profile and think about how it is supposed to connect with the gap between space and bearing, then the space does not need to be flared, it can have a flat face.
For clarity. In his video, he described it as a new wheelset. He thinks it's ok to take the bearings out, then put them back in and sell the wheels on. The bearings will get damaged as you remove them as the balls will dig into the races. Whilst I accept this is done frequently, on a brand new set of wheels and an unsuspecting customer, I think this is totally unacceptable.
On the subject of the flare, his diagram in his video showed a completely flat tube, I was pointing out that this is not the case on his own wheels. I've taken loads of wheels apart, I've never seen one with a flare in it, or one that was heavily distorted despite being brand new.
I'm also dubious as to whether these wheels are factory fresh, I think the bearings have been removed before. The positioning of the puller legs on the spoke holes are to put it mildly "undesirable".
1:19 these are quite different examples of hammer use (hitting the whole axle) for a completely different hub design. In your case it was a hammer hitting a screwdriver pointed at one side of the inner race of the bearing which potentially can lead to the damage of the bearing seats in the soft aluminium hub due to uneven forces pushing the bearing out.
Do you think the hub body is less crucial than a spacer?
Also, it’s not clear how badly was the spacer damaged based on blurry screenshots.
I'm no mechanic, just a guy who fixes his own bikes. Saw the vid about hammering them out the hunt. Got to say I did use his method of pulling them out with a cheap set of Chinese pullers. I thought he was right but actually watching this, I think you are right because I really struggled to get the pre load right afterwards.
Win win space I used your method to push out.
@@IvanMalechko He said that if you are using a hammer then you are doing it wrong. In a lot of scenarios there didn't appear to be any other choice
@@Hambini Hi guy's, thanks for this very instructive technical discussion. Yes, you did say that, but comparing these completely different examples can be misleading for novice mechanics. IHMO, purposely misleading in order to prove your point😛
@@Hambini Do you think that a good hub design should include a 0.3 mm chamfer or even a cavity on the spacer tube? This is definitely nitpicking but why not?
Professional mechanic for nearly 30 years. Pro Team mechanic for over 10 seasons, at the UCI level. I've preferred and used a hammer and drift forever. I NEVER use a blind puller for exactly the reason(s) you've described.
Good riddance of incorrect bearing preload, chapeau!
Huge respect to pro team mechanics. Always busy, always working, day and night.
yep
Hate to say it but Hambini is wrong, again. 1) Hambini's attempt to show that the spacer is deformed is misleading as he explains the up tick of the light deflection on the opposite side of the spacer that never was touched by the bearing puller. Watch from 23:22-23:48 of Reginald’s video for a masterclass in slight of hand. The deflection of light is more likely to be oil or grease. 2) This is a steel spacer. And at 18:11 of Reginald's video it's pretty obvious that the amount of torque applied to the bearing puller is not enough to deform the spacer. You would need to buldge the steel spacer beyond it's yield point for it to deform. That's not what happens. 3) At 22:47 of Reginald's video you can see that the bearing puller does not extend beyond the bearing, certainly no where near enough to damage the spacer.
As one who has worked with mechanical engineers in the bicycle industry, as well as someone who has replaced hundreds of hub bearings, and many a crushed aluminum freehub spacers from the early days of road disc, I can only say beware of ad hominem slinging experts.
@@allrounderbicycle7193 WRONG
WTF NO HHF, NO hairdresser, no pen is working, no swearing. We don't usually see Professional Hambini! He thought he'd reamed you and you've buried him. Lot's of people took that video as though it was gospel and then he trashed his own spacer and f888ed up the preload and didn't even notice. Gold..
I'm always professional.
@@Hambini that's disgusting! 🤣
@@Hambini How did you see the damage to the spacer?
FAKE HAMBINI
@@Hambini just the tip?
Please note that I don't delete comments unless they cross an extreme line. If your comment has been deleted then it's youtube's AI that has done it.
Challenge accepted!
Having done , in the last year over 200 wheel bearings for a neighbours wheelchair basket ball teams , which although dont have a sleeve, more of a solid stop inside the hub for the bearings to seat on. A simple piece of wood on the bench, a drift and a copper mallet and reasonable drifting around the bearings make them come out and not damage anything. Using studding ,. washers and sockets , means winding them back in is quick and easy. There is no gap behind the bearing for any blind puller, so drifting is the only answer.
Also Hope hubs. Sliding the central sleeve to one side. After the first tap, the sleeve comes loose enough to be able to vary your tapping to make sure the bearing comes out parallel and not damage the inside of the hub. These I used studding and sockets to refit new bearings. Been doing this process for years and never had an issue. Glad to say my DT Swiss are still factory fresh , even after many miles to work on them.
I agree with the main point. There are also expanding pullers, that by friction force grab the inner race and can be pulled or hammered out. Save spacer and hub, bearings can be trashed.
In material engineering part, my area: Ball bearings are most often made from 1%C 1,5% Cr (100Cr6=AISI 52100, no Molybden). I wont say that "CrMo" is a wrong description, as OVAKO makes 100CrMo7, steel similar to 100Cr6 with added Mo, but most machinist asociate "CrMo" with a AISI 4130=25CrMo4~"chromoly steel", commonly used for frame construction.
I am not nitpicking the values 100HV and 1000HV as it is only for a ballpark orientation. If anyone has more interest, continue reading:
When it comes to hardness, thank You for using the Vickers scale( as from HV one can estimate Ultimate Tensile Strength by multiplying HV[kgf/mm^2] times 3,33 to get UTS[N/mm^2=MPa]. In your example aluminum would have UTS of 333 MPa( aluminum alloy can easily have that, "pure" aluminium with UTS ~90 MPa is not commonly used for strucural application , bearing steel would have UTS of 3333 MPa ( high probability, that it would crack before that, but in compression test that could be close to reality).
I personally have measured bearing race hardness of 765HV10 (62,7HRC) of brand new KOYO 6204, old east German (DDR) bearings:790HV10=63,6HRC and the hardest were old russian "USSR" 6305 bearings: 836HV10=65,1HRC.
Thank you for your service ;)
Best regards
What I like on this response video, that it was more educational than a reponse. And it was not directed on the mechanic itself. One thing are stupid jokes and other is your professionalism. Perfect! Thank you.
Haven’t seen the blind bearing pulling video, but from your explanation it’s easy to judge which is the most efficient, sensible and widely used technique! Even hairdressers know gentle tapping on just the right spot is often a pretty good and effective way to ease a release. 😊
Yes that’s very important in life, whatever you do only ever listen to one side of the story. That way you are always protected from the other perspective and you won’t risk seeing or hearing anything that might conflict with your current view. 😉
I suggest you go watch the video then.
You might learn something. That being is that Hambini can’t accept he was wrong
@@reginaldscot165 you’re absolutely correct mate. It is indeed important to listen to both sides of any argument. This is especially important if you are uncertain the message you are hearing from either side is not well researched, accurate or appears biased. As I stated this video presented both sides of the key element - that pulling with a specific tool does not cause damage whereas the tapping method can. It then presented entirely believable direct evidence that whilst one side stated pulling caused no damage, this did not appear to be correct. So, in this case, with a sample size of one, bearing pulling caused damage, to the internal sleeve. Based on that ‘it’s easy to judge which is the most efficient and sensible technique’. Widely used may not be accurate as only the advice from companies to use tapping could be presented not directly how many people follow the advice.
p.s. I have now watched the video.
Long time fan spotted. The ref to the hairdresser gave it away.
legend has it Hambini has a male barber
Chapeau for posting this, I watched the video the other day and wondered how you would respond.
Good response, props. I'm going to keep doing it the "wrong" way
As a pissed-up ham-fisted backyard motorcycle tinkerer I feel I have to wade in here. Blind bearing pullers are a complete pain in the arse, getting them to seat correctly without damage is more chance than feel, and if the bearing is stuck the potential for damage is high.
Yep and that’s with a big radius on the bearing and a very robust hub
Motorcycles are ok, they have sturdy spacers. Get the puller in, tighten until snug, drag along the spacer until gap is found, tighten a bit more by hand and give it a tap, tighten to final size and pull out.
I’m just gonna say it. There is more then one way to do things….. that’s all it is. Figuring out how it works and the how the best way to remove it for that person
Regarding the screenshot at 7:15, I think the flared part is the other side of the tube.
Meaning, the side that the puller didn't touch.
He pulls the tube out with his right hand, so the part that touched the puller is now at the bottom and the opposite side now is at the top.
I tried to clarify this in the pinned comment.
The correct way to get a beating out, is to fit an expanding arbor into the inner race. Then tap been vee shape shaft into the split arbor, which will expand the arbor, and allow the bearing to be removed by continuing to tap vee shaft. No damage to bearing or spacer. Trying a blind bearing puller, or a punch of some sort are both bodge methods and far from ideal.
I think you mean no damage to the spacer because there is no bearing puller contact with it (Hambini's point) and no damage to the hub because there is no isolated point loading from an offset force of the hammer whacked punch (Reginald's point). Query though damage to the bearing as you are concentrating the extraction force on the inner that must be translated through the bearing to the outer to over come the friction hold on it by the hub (Hambini's closing point)?
@@thisandthatandotherthings If bearings were made that were unable to cope with quite heavy radial loadings, they would fail very quickly.
Spilt arbour bearing puller, and a slide hammer, will remove pretty much any bearing without damage, very easily.
I've used soft metal drift to remove bearing and I've also used pullers it's depends on the situation. You must be incremental and methodical, basically use some finesse and you won't cause damage or wear to the ID of the seat-interference. Some outer races are chamfered but not all. Another thing is you don't remove bearing 'cartridges' to refit so drift removal is done to a non serviceable part.
I have read all of this with interest and enjoy the respect and free and open discussion, so I thought that I would throw in my '2p' as well.
Whilst I have done plenty of hammering of hub/bearings, I can say that I have also used an internal bearing puller in a similar situation, but in my cases there were differences.
1) The puller will normally expand and grip onto the inside on the inner race and grip by friction. The expansion bolt can create a lot of forceby it's wedging action and bicycle hubs hardly have much of an interference fit (more likely corrosion, or a light bearing fix.
2) There was clearance to the spacer tube to get a light set to hook under the bearing.
Observations: In both cases a bearing puller works nice and easily and is very controlled, however my puller has a a presser plate and I make adapters and also add a soft facing where required. This spreads out load and protects the important bits. This works with traditional press fitter inner races, but who can get spares for them now and has time to strip and set up a traditional hub, or us the spring flared press tools.
Like a suitable press foot/tool; It is also good to use a similar mounting tool, such as the Hope tool (I think they call it a vice or anvil) but these are relatively soft and elastic compared to steel. In the Hope video he is also using a Thor soft faced hammer which also limits the shock and peak force, which makes hammering a drift or pin punch into quite a subtle process.
Tubes: The inner tubes have been discribed in the discussion as both spacers and pre-load tubes. Of course there are many designs in the market, but I believe that these are generlly just spacers. My understanding is that these tubes are being used as bearing spacers to avoid excessive preload (ie side load) of the bearings when the wheel is bolted into the frame. The pressing of the bearings is just to a nominal stop and not to a final measured length, so there is no way of establishing what preload has been applied and retained in the tube. I would have thought that it's use for preload would have been as a crush tube, to get a calibrated value of force to deform of a defined initiation form, but then they would clearly be scrapped and replaced each time, just like in vehicle tranmissions and final drive units. Maybe it is using the elasticity of squeezing down a thin walled tube? I am intrigued to find out.
Either way, a spacer or a pre-load tube, should avoid damage that can effect it's length or form, so care is needed any way. This is just like the in the referenced video for distortion to the hub shell and bearing recess, although the use of a point loaded press negates that.
It is possible to use several methods, with care, sympathy and an understanding of the risks. I fully welcome this debate as it allows discussion of methods and concerns for us all to learn. This then also allows the controlled and careful use of simple tools like just a ground up nail, hammer, a block of wood and the floor, as is done in many a shed or repair shop in places where funding and tools are not available.
Frankly, I didn't watch the Reginal Scot video when I saw it come up in my feed as I figured it was probably a Dunder\Krueger scenario. Seeing your video shed all the light I needed to see. If I'm removing bearings from a hub they're toast anyhow. The only time I could see having to remove a good bearing is if I were a knob and put an angular bearing in the wrong way around. In an era where the bearing is a minimal cost component, just beat it out and put a new one in....or put the bearing back in anyway and make sure you have a replacement in the post.
as a bike mechanic myself , i can say with much experience , dont listen to bike mechanics with tool fetishes . drifting bearings out with care and respect for the accompanying component is the best way to go . i have seen customers bikes with tool damage from other mechanics , after 35 years of careful removal of press fit bearings with a hammer and drift i have had zero problems , with blind pullers the hub shell can also become damaged to the extent of having to sand the leading edge of the hub after a puller has marred the bejesus out of a £1000 wheelset., especially with the cottage cheese some hub shells are made of . blind pullers should only be used when the bearing for extraction is in an orifice that has been designed for such a tool and specified by the manufacturer . keep reaming and may the hairdresser be with you .😘
Love hearing someone who actually understands this stuff explaining it so well.
Why do some freebies use these spacers instead if just having a stop/shoulder/whatever it’s called for the bearing to stop/rest on when pressed in? I’ve only had one hub (novatec I think) with one of these spacers and it’s utter shite! Press the bearing in with too much force and they start binding up (axle downs want to spin properly.too little force and the threaded preload adjusting end caps end up compressing the bearing sand causing them to bind up especially when pedaling backwards at speed. It seems impossible to ensure the bearings are perfectly aligned. Yet in every other hub I’ve had (tune, alchemy, hope, carbon Ti, extralite, others I can’t remember) I’ve never had a single issue with this. Servicing has always been as easy as pop tye old bearings out, press the new ones in. Could do it in the dark. These spacers in the freehub just baffle me.
Nothing to be ashamed of. Whenever proved wrong, I am grateful to learn something new. Hambini has proved to be open minded and receptive to improvements. Bravo Hambini!
You can get bearing devices that grasp the inside of the bearing using jaws and a bolt (very similar to the one in the video). It has no arms, you hit the end of the bolt from the other side using a punch / bolt and the bearing is forced out
YES! those are the correct tools to use! Seem to me that you tubers just like to brawl it out most times without bothering to find / recommend better practise.
I love hambini, and understand that he like having a bash at things!
As a bike mechanic, 100% use a soft blow hammer, bearing pullers are great if there's nothing behind the bearing that you can damage but when pretty much every major manufacturer says to use a hammer, you use a hammer.
The hilarious part is (and I know you were talking rear hubs here but still) that there is plenty of hubs where bearing pullers are actually impossible to use anyway, my front hubs on both my bikes and spare wheels are a prime example, the hub axle is the drift to remove the bearings and sits completely through the bearings when its full assembled, so the only way is to take off the end caps, then hammer them out one side at a time using the axle.
Worked on bikes for the best part of 20 years. Never once used a puller on sealed bearing freehubs of this specific style. Worn bearings have always been chapped out carefully and freshies pressed in accordingly. Best damage the old bearing that's being replaced rather than the driver/ internals 😉.
@@stevemorley if the tolerances are tight to begin with there is a minimal rocking motion. When the bearing is tapped, the bearing outer body is not going to focus energy in one point and suffer any galling. The fact that the fit is tight to begin with and the outer edge is always radiused, translates into movement like a piston in a cylinder. So basically get over it👍
@@stevemorley No point missed, you clearly don't work on bikes. Had you done, you would have understood that comment.
You will not damage the hub body by chapping the bearings, if you're careful and know what you're doing.
You will however damage the hub body by 'smashing' the hub body or using the wrong tool.
@@stevemorley Nah you are wrong.
@@stevemorley But dont beat yourself to it, you will get it someday
You can hammer them in and out with a drift (if you are careful), but a puller/press is better.
So they are both right - apart from the bit about it being the only way.
Except the puller can also do damage. It's only better in specific situations.
With good points on both sides, There needs to be a better design for the spacer and removal method thought out and implemented by engineers/designers of course taking into account cost and tooling practicality.
tappy tap tap tap.
What’s wrong with using a hammer?
Spacer (or often a machined shoulder on some sort of shafting) between the bearings IS the standard way to set preload in many applications. Oth some modest skill and care taken in removal also suffices.
or maybe returning to cup & cone bearings?...
Bike Mechanic for over 20 years here and you get these spacers in hubs and in the pivots of full sus frames and the companies that think about removal sometimes machine notches in these tubes so you have better access to tap the bearings out, rare though.
I have a hammer blind hole puller for a couple of oddball hubs that don't have a way to tap out the bearings with drifts. Also if I want to give myself a nice freaking blood blister on the webbing between my thumb and finger. But those don't have a spacer in them, but rather hard stops in the hub, so the hammering pull needs to engage just the inner race of the cartridge and hopefully not tear things apart. Every time I have to service those hubs, I wish I were on a cup and cone.
This is a great example of the Dunning-Kruger effect! Nice video
After an extremely thorough, in-depth philosophical analysis of the situation, I can conclude that Reginald has been a knob on this occasion.
You know shit is coming , when you don't hear: "Hellooooo Hambini Fuuuuunds!
*gets his popcorn out* 😂🍿.... I didn't think it would be that easy to get one over the beaver😂
So according to Reginald Scott, using a hammer and center punch can result in damage to the hub. According to Hambini, using a bearing puller can damage the spacer, which can mess with bearing preload, etc.
So who is right? Probably both of them.
I wish both sides good luck in this epic battle! 😊🍿
I was waiting for this!! Saw Reginald’s video a few days ago and knew Hambini would have a beautiful response.
Well done Sir!
Interesting. A good explanation.
I remember using bearing pullers on larger electric motors and engine governor.
When shaft had been damaged it ended up the outer race pulled off and the inner race ground and split so the shaft end could be cleaned.
Hambini, can confirm your statement about the center tube ("preload sleeve") not being clearanced for use with blind hole pullers, even on MTB bottom brackets. I have 3 PF30 MTB and Dub MTB brackets from BBinfinite and you would flare out the thin-walled aluminum tube if you used a blind puller. The preload sleeves are *exactly* the same size as the inner race of the bearing and the only relief is the bearing chamfer as shown on the right side of your diagram at 3:15. Once you dimensionally change that tube, even slightly, you may as well throw it away. I know you're not the biggest fan of BBinfinite but Gary's bearing removal videos agree with you.
Now retired & worked in the construction plant and maintenance i had a set of blind bearing pullers from SKF these were simply a tool treaded one end & a ball turned on the other end but machined flat 2 sides ( looked like a lolly pop ) you picked the right ball diamater inserted into where the race cage was and turned it 90deg to lock into the ball run then withdraw as normal , this of course distroyed the cage but as the bearing was being replaced it was not an issue ...........
"Unscheduled, rapid, involuntary disassembly" is my new favourite joke 😂
top joke
Great video as always Hambini! I have to say I used a Rubber/soft mallet in the past and never had any issues, Even more so when the old ones have fallen to bits due to neglected maintenance 😂
I watched this and the video by that other guy. Don't understand why people get so upset. Going to keep using my appropriate sized egg cup (plastic NOT ceramic), cast iron pan and cutlery to knock bearings in and out.
A great response from an engineer who just wanted to point out that both methods worked just one was a hell of a lot easier and capable by most people with an once of intelligence,Well done Hambini..........
and risks damaging the bearing housing...
One of the greatest responde i've seen on youtube. Very nice!
👏
Refinery engineer at prax. Just wow… hambini
Excellent response vid Hambini, I have to fit industrial wheel bearings in my work, we use hydraulic pullers with 15t of pressure, sometimes it goes wrong and you end up with a lump hammer and copper drift, sometimes you have to use those techniques because it works.
Yes. A soft drift. Not a pin punch.
@@bjmaston A pin punch works better , because it doesn't have the chamfered edge. The chamfered edge of the brass drift causes the force of the hammering to be directed toward the hub inner wall, rather than straight outward.
Reminds me of the constant battle for changing ball joints. There is the sledge hammer method or the press method. Most of us will just smack it with whatever hammer we have lying around.
Hm, as a mechanical design engineer I would say that it's a bad design if the preload spacer has no gap for pulling tool. Or the pulling tool should have the same small lip as the radius of bearing. I can see that hammering is a solution of praxis but in a perfect world you should press the bearing in AND out. And the design should consider this. Here we have bicycle design, low weight, carbon, alu, sensitive to forces and shocks. Never ever would I take a hammer as standard solution for such thin walled precise machined bearing housings in a spoked wheel. Mechanic impuls is the last answer if something went wrong before.
This is the right answer. I said the same in the comment above: it's just a bad design and neither Hambini, nor Reginald are at fault here. If the inner wall of the spacer sits flush with circumference of the inner wall of the bearing's race, it's a bad design. Either way a mechanic will damage the hub shell or whacking the whole circumference of the spacer with expander puller. IMO, both reamers are not at fault here. It's just one-way design of the hub, where you can easily fit the bearing in, but have no way to take it out.
Doesn't a preload spacer assume perfection of all other variables and is this very realistic? What is so wrong with careful preload instructions that are repeatable or measurable with a fine torque wrench? To a certain extent these bikes do not play with the same gravity of assembly/disassembly/repair precision as other high end machinery right?
Fantastic breakdown of exactly why these blind bearing pullers are a tool for bearing removal, not THE tool for bearing removal. Hammer and appropriate punch is the go-to for the job and the blind puller is the backup for when you cannot get to the underside of the bearing.
I wonder why they are called blind* bearing pullers?/s
I also cringed at your hammer technique, I partnered with FSA, HED, Fulcrum and the brand I work for have our version of the hunt wheels. We'd tell our customers to send them back to us and we'll do it for them. His current video correcting this clip is more correct I'm sorry to say. Lesson learned I hope, Both move on now.
I was horrified to discover that he was demoing this destruction on some unknowingly unlucky customers new bike. WTF.
🔥 😬
Seriously though, thanks for this one. I watched his video and even for me who works in a bike shop it appeared a legitimate and sensible approach.
It's actually something I've thought about previously, as I was concerned that when hitting the bearing out it's impossible to completely avoid knocking it to an angle and thus deforming the bearing seat.
Could you please comment on this with technical detail, or perhaps a follow up video, with why this isn't an issue..?
Hopefully he has the humility to go back and look closely if he did in fact cause any damage to the spacer.
I don't believe someone can actually be a good mechanic without the ability to admit when they get something wrong..
I looked at is puller, the flare has a flat side facing the spacer. This means to me that as you gently expand the flare to connect with the radius on the ball race, it cannot damage the spacer to any degree. Perhaps if the spacer was aluminium it might create some scuffing, but the same would happen with a hammer and punch.
I looked at new sealed bearings and they ALL have a radii on both external edges.
@@JohnnyMotel99 You are correct. 👍🏻 It’s a shame the above mechanic has thrown away the evidence of his own eyes and ignores the fact Hambini is actively Misrepresenting what took place in my video. 🤷🏻♂️
@Reginald Scot youre video was great, and I love this technical discussion. I hope you do a follow-up . Personally, I would say the spacer was not flared because you were careful. On the other hand, I get habini's point. All this is very instructive. Thanks!
I think that guy is actually a fan!
Just uploaded a video on this, then you responded to my challenge instantly. Good work! I do believe we have some oversize BBs with all this REAMING! 😮😅
I think my comment has been deleted on your feed. I went back and it's gone!
@@Hambini did it have a link? I block links as YT is not great about links on videos so I turn them off. Donald Trump got caught out on this.
@@waynosfotos yeah it had a link to this video.
@@Hambini i just enjoy the popcorn 🤣
@@Hambini try just puting the watch id instead of a full link?
Hambini, I saw the video, and he has a point. If the bearings came out gentler using the puller, then that’s the better way, not a drift. Yea the puller foot placement was sketchy, but nothing a few large fender washers or similar plate couldn’t fix to help distribute the load. If the bearing and tube have the chamfers (or not), I’d say the puller was the way to go, and using the drift, once I’d created a gap enough to prevent damage to the tube, I’d go in and use a blind puller rest of the way, just to be able to pull the bearing out with equal pressure and keep from causing any damage to the hub outer race bore. Yes, I understand the balls will be damaged regardless.
I was wrong mostly 99% of my decisions made in my life till now. Gutted utterly sometimes … even Space X could go wrong so I give myself room for improvement. Me no mechanic nor a decorated engineer but once in a while I love to see some clever exchange of comments, allow room to make mistakes (hopefully small ones) coz we all do. Just like Marty Friedman said recently ‘You be surprised how little I know about everything’ . No hard feelings hold against Hambini if I may and hopefully no grudges both sides.
Only point that is still unclear to me: he mentioned in his videos that, if you are not careful with your taping, you could deform the body of the hub. Since the bearing is pretty hard and the body is made of aluminium as well it's a possibility right?
I think pressing on the spoke holes in 2 places is much worse which is what he did.
@@Hambini Yeah, I suggested he use a washer (albeit it would be a large one) to evenly spread the load on the hub body. I cringed when I saw that.
@@Hambini Oril is correct though?, that was a point of R. Scott. The hub body could become distorted if its not removed evenly and this could cause fitment issues of the next/new bearing. If I were a bearing manufacturer I would never warranty a bearing that in which I knew the removal of previous was likely to cause poor fitment or uneven interference. If I had to choose between mushed spacer tube or distorted bore I would choose mushed spacer tube everyday. BTW, how could the spacer tube prevent excessive preload when a positive stop exists at bottom of bore??? Didn't you do a video in the past that highlighted the bearing manufactures specified interference and contact geometry on the inboard bearing races? Belt and suspenders approach?, spacer tube are the suspenders? Thank for your work, Hambini.
the trick is not to beat the absolute crap out of it and work your way round slowly, ive seen motorcycle steering head tube frames mauled with less force than this fella was using on that dainty pushrod wheel , tipping the bearing and taking a chunk out of the face.
you go very careful when you are risking a a couple of hundred on a new frame plus about a days work to swap frames, tappy tap tap tap.
@@Angle-of-Attack the "positive stop" is only acting as a bearing seat for the outer race. The spacer tube prevents the inner race from suffering excessive clamping force or preload which would cause binding and premature wear
A well thought through response. Nice work hambini. Hopefully Reginald Scott will respond with something suitable. If I was in his shoes, I would post a close up of that preload tube and if it was fluted, I'd apologise and say that I was wrong. A mistake like this, made in good faith isn't the most heinous in the bike industry is it.
The end surface of the puller is flat, unless the flare did not connect with the small gap between spacer and ball race, then it's difficult to see how damage can happen to spacer.
Nicely done Hambini… you took that guy apart with his smug video.
Kudos to you
I think he did it to increase his hits.
A perfect example of how a small amount of knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. I wonder if he will have the courage to respond/correct his video
Trying to ream a pro, a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect maybe?
He announced that is doing a response video… I’m preparing the popcorn 😊
@@nickr395 A pro vs an engineer who designs BBs and hubs. I think it's clear where the Dunning Kruger virus lies.
Thanks for the interesting as always video. I found it particularly interesting that a what appears to be a more coarse method is in fact better than pulling the bearings out. Keep up the good work in this community.
Hambini, I thought you were an engineering nerd. Just remember without us engineering nerds the world wouldn't exist.
I watched that video and mostly thought about the legs of the puller destroying the freehub seal and seat. Those preload tubes get ruined and hardly any shops replace them. Often left just wobbling around in there. … or some mechanic just packed it full of grease and hoped no one would notice.
My solution when I was a mechanic back in the 10's was to use a cheap blind hole puller and tighten it up "good-and-tight" on the inner bearing race, and this was enough to grip the bearing for extraction.
Doesn't damage the tube and it pulls the bearing out gently and without any angular deflection that could damage the hub shell.
My favourite part of reginalds video was when he questioned if Hambini was actually a qualified engineer.
Hambini isn't qualified. I thought he was a prostitute...exchanging sexual favors for haircuts.
🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍
Reminds me of the old joke "How do you know if someone's a pilot"
To be fair there are plenty of "as an engineer myself" comments all over social media, I don't tend to read past that part of any reply. There are many disciplines in aeronautical engineering, and many qualified engineers I wouldn't let anywhere near the spanners or a lathe . Hambini clearly has the theory and the practical nous and his products prove this, but always be wary of the word "aerospace" especially in advertsing that wants you to hand over ca$h for shiny new parts
Hambini is many things to many people.
This is why I watch you no bull facts figures getting it right bang on bud
I've been doing "it the wrong way" for decades with regards to hubs not dogging with mine and other people's hairdressers. Although using a puller on first appearance looked like neat way but yeah on closer inspection... oops
No loud HHF!? You got straight to the reaming on this one!
I use an anchor bolt to grip the inner race of the bearing then place it on an appropriately sized pvc pipe coupling then tap it out with a drift on the anchor bolt. Costs less than £1.00. Never done it on the arrangement above but if you don't push the bolt all the way through it shouldn't damage the spacer.
I watched the video and it looked like the correct and logical way to do it. The mechanic and I got schooled.
Engineering is way to complex for the likes of me.
I don't bother with guys who get mileage out of reaming other TH-camrs success. Didn't bother watching the other guys vid and so glad I didn't. Keep up the good work Hambini
I don't know about everyone else but I can't wait for the next installment in this drama. Reginald, over to you.
It is possible that the ID of the spacer is slightly bigger than the ID of the bearing to specifically allow for the use of a puller.
good point
I've been removing bearings the wrong way for decades, but in a bigger scale on car swing arms with precision machined spacers.
That website photos are very convincing. So is hambini indeed just a refinery worker?
That's what I thought. Hammer them bearings out on the premise that it will be replaced.
Good refute. Nice one.
@hambini, those first slides showing the hammers are mostly knocking out the axle. Both the video you did and Reg showed the axle already removed.
have a look at the hope video, that's is pretty much exactly what I did and my other point is you've got some scenarios where the axles have two integrated lips. the puller won't work in those situations.
Rapid, involuntary disassembly....bah-ha-ha! The whole bearing removal and insertion debacle is why I still very much like cup and cone bearings.
Had to replace rear linkage bearings on a carbon specialized stump jumper. The bearings at the top of the seat stay had to be carefully hammered out since the surrounding area was so irregularly shaped and there was just not enough meat to get the pullers to seat. Getting them in was much easier.
Interesting video! So is the "best" approach to tap on the bearing to get about 2mm of slack, then use a bearing puller (slide hammer style) to pull the bearing out to minimize the stress/distortion on the soft aluminum hub?
If the spacer had 2 small “windows or notches” on the end where it contacts the bearings you could then have either a puller that reaches in and has pins or pawls that open up and grab, or, going at it from the other side, you could open the pins up through the holes and tap the bearing out. If this makes sense?
I've seen that guy's stuff too...he is, perhaps, the most pedantic, guy in the cycling TH-cam world. Also high on the Luddite scale...
A lowly bike mechanic gets reamed!!😂😂
I think regardless of the method used I would want/need a new spacer. Given its thinness I would likely damage it with either the puller or the hammer.
You don´t touch the spacer with the drift. Rgr
Reginald Scot is the best lowly expat bike mechanic in the world. He’s right 👍
Credit where credit is due. Nice 👍
So I punch bearings out all the time but I totally understand why people dont like doing that. Sometimes if you've been a bit overzelous with your punching, you can send the bearing out on an angle which can damage the surface that the bearing presses into. I have done this myself, and it can write off your hub, you just learn to be a bit more tenuous with your punching. Some people just get a bit scared of this happening (particularly on DT hubs which I find to use particularly weak aluminium), so they insist upon using bearing extractors on everything.
Seems like a skill issue to me :P
Nice vids both ways. Enjoyed watching. Thanks for the content!
Alt/alt bearings have attempted to address the issue of removing the bearing without the use of an expanding collet and flaring the spacer tube, or hammer and drift. Hambini and a lot of exprrienced bike mechanics are only using the best tools available that will do mthe least amount of damage to the spacer, looks agricultural, but works.
Chapeau, science even disproves' i before e except after c' Well done Hambini!!
I was waiting for this video😂.
Very polite response and very well explained.
My overriding thought when he did his demonstration was why was he looking to preserve a bearing that must have been shagged or else why would he be removing it.
the thing is if the spacer becomes flared, the bearing that he declared to be absolute fit for service will now have a very short life because it will be displaced more.
@@Hambini is it easy to find replacement spacer things?
@@Hambini "DISPLACED" meaning off-axis?
Nice job 😊. Oil refinery? Hambini cc
I alway's smack em out because its therapeutic.
I guess the real problem is there isn't a normal solution to this. Why not make a chanfer in the middle of the bearing to pull? Or some slots in the spacer where a special puller can hook behind?
Great video and response btw
Sorry 180 degrees out there. This set is the normal way, yes a castellated ended spacer could be used, or a 'special' bearing with a flanged inner allowing more of a step to grab hold of with a puller would do at a pinch. Are you willing to pay for it though? the special bearings, the special range of tools etc.
@@alan-sk7ky To be fair I own 2k worth on tools just to service my bikes.. This is just a basic set. The bike industry is already full off annoying special tooling. And if the whole industry is going to use it, prices will go down ofcourse. But I do get your point. The castellated ended spacer sounds really like a winner except we might keep te problem of accidentally bending the edges if the tool is to clumsy. A edge in the middle of the bearing feels more durable.
My favourite method is too remove the free body and then put that in an oven at 70 deg C for about 10 min, after which the bearings just drops out of the Aluminium free body as Aluminium expands faster than steel when heated.
I think it's a case of damned if you don't, damned if you do. Using a drift punch with the spacer moved out of the way you invariably cant the bearing inside the bore. Which is also aluminium and thus soft. So you're damaging that too.
To be honest I never thought about flaring the spacer using a puller so I will be thinking about this from now one. But my usual MO is to punch out the bearings if they go fairly smoothly while for the more stuck ones I usually punch it a bit to create a gap then use a blind bearing puller in order to pull on it as axially and evenly as possible.
A very measured and detailed explanation Mr Hambini, why no expletives? WTF 😂
Wait a sec....is my pen working? Yes! apparently my pen is working....Nice! I enjoy and watch your content regularly. All valid points you make,....but... your hairdresser has not addressed some important points this guy made. Most importantly it is not about the bearings. They are replaceable, as you say. The tube in between them is quite cheap to replace as well. The problem is the soft aluminium of the hub you are slowly destroying in the process of removing the bearings this way. (Or did my hairdresser get it wrong?) Me and my personal (by the way fantastic) hairdresser would be happy to see you address this. Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
Hmm there was one campagnolo front hub from memory that didn't have the tube at all. Bearings were a frequent event until I sold him a decent set ...
The only new wheel part i would take off and refit was the bearing dustcap in the freehub. A few years ago they were not pressed square which, on an ebike, can cause it to throw a chain by unloading the derailleur
RTFM! Someone designed it - they know the best way to take it apart and put it back together again.
Admit it, you’re a hammer mechanic!
Glad I watched this one, was surprised at the turn about. Good educational video all around
I told him the same exact thing , most inner spacers i have played with have no radius or chamfer
If you look closely at the puller flared profile and think about how it is supposed to connect with the gap between space and bearing, then the space does not need to be flared, it can have a flat face.