LET'S TAK TECH-RING GAP PT 2

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 123

  • @TheOnlyFormula
    @TheOnlyFormula 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I ran a Gen V 454 (140k miles) with brodix RR heads on 8psi. This was in a 5k+ vehicle with a remote s480 billet wheel turbo. The original ring gap was .026 which I did not expect. No intercooler, Lower timing and 10AFR 😄. Not ideal and after watching these videos, I decided to check the ring gap. Switching to twins and stroked the motor. Thanks for all your help!!

  • @brandoncarpenter4077
    @brandoncarpenter4077 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    The element 115 comment was awesome!

  • @xdarktalon
    @xdarktalon 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hello Richard it”ll be nice to see you try a 1uz from Toyota and a 6g72tt from Mitsubishi on your dyno . When you get a chance. Thank you.

  • @boostedgringo5885
    @boostedgringo5885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I know this is late. But if you see it, take a look at the guy with the 4200 fairmont. He has a good presentation of harmonics and how a real data driven test was done about raising the rpms . I forget his name, but you should be able to find it

  • @boostedgringo5885
    @boostedgringo5885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Also, he does some dyno testing on the 4200 and the vvt. Gained quite a bit of power.

  • @TXsilvy
    @TXsilvy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Perfect timing for me. Freshening up an iron gen4 TSP 408 tomorrow morning with new bearings and opening up gap on existing rings. Do you suggest honing if not replacing rings (only adding more gap) and putting those rings back into their original hole?

    • @mikestufano4961
      @mikestufano4961 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yes sir From what Ritchard said he re-uses everything but the oil it came with!! He’s not cheap he’s cost effective!!!!

  • @mathewhoffer4541
    @mathewhoffer4541 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Factory ford 4.6 rings and LS engine rings ? would they be a ductile iron top ring or a grey iron top ring or steel ? because most budget minded rings you see today for some ungodly reason all have a moly coating which tends to flake under boost and therefore a bad choice for boost ? If the oem rings on a 4.5L engine are steel top ring with no coating then wouldn't it be better to gap them and re use them rather then coughing up almost $300 for a set of new rings with a steel top ring and no moly coating for a budget boost on stock pistons? And you would think simply buy a new set of stock rings and use them right ? a new set of OEM ford rings are around $45 per piston so they end up costing more then all out performance rings.

  • @ShawnGilbert1967
    @ShawnGilbert1967 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    My current engine is a BBC, 9.7 to 1 468ci. I used a Total Seal SS AP GAPLESS *TOP* ring with a reverse Napier second on Probe 2618 pistons...
    I set their individual components at .032 and that was 1000 smashes ago...its run on the street using a 4l80e and 3.25 gear in a 67 Camaro with a home brew Edelbrock long runner Street ram/ home brew top with China LS102 TB feeding from back ( to fit under my 4 inch cowl hood) converted to sequential MPI injection using injector phasing and the slope of the individual runners to get a good angle of delivery to intake valve...this is an Oval Port with Brodix Oval Port heads...high velocity...with the benefits of a long runner tunnel ram and sequential MPI...
    I run one of your more favorite cams as these exhaust ports are a bit lacking similar to ls3 its a steel core( for springs which fall between hyd roller and solid due to my hybrid setup ) 233/247 601/612 114+4...BUT its a hydraulic lobe running dual oil pressure fed solid roller lifter set at zero cold...ive tried 8k worth of hyd roller and solid roller lifters...THIS combo will NOT roll over at 6200-6500 like a normal hyd roller oh no....so easy to set lash, I do have a little different take up ramp..runs dead quite and with the F1A-94 procharger pulls out the top like crazy high......
    It's a bit wild setup that's tame in reality but I have to say the gapless top rings on this engine on the street going on 7 years driving near daily for 4 years, driving into track hours and back its nuts it will hold 15-16psi and doesn't even need a catch can...just vents best money I ever spent.....
    I don't have to worry they will butt and I've had bad gas ( its a 93 combo) and also TWO meth pump failures...zero issues....
    The SS is Hard so when I got my probe pistons I got 0.060 I also got 0.070 on a steel...when it gets worn enough ive hone it to those pistons on a refresh hehe...
    I really feel like I get my cake and eat it too with these rings though it was hard to pay over $300 for em....

  • @cadillacwrench
    @cadillacwrench 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Now how about changing the valve job set up with turbos.. like a wider seat margin on the exhaust ???

  • @dhangejr
    @dhangejr 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So, don’t change rod bearings or mains ? Also , no rings.
    I had glitter in my oil, guessing it’s cam bearings. Has about 180k stage 3 BTR cam. Was a track car , I DID not build it

  • @f1junky63
    @f1junky63 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    So is .030 ring gap a good number for a higher boost LS engine? I've never run a boosted engine but I'm definitely going to.

    • @FirstLast-tx3yj
      @FirstLast-tx3yj 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      30 is on the high end so definitely okay for huge boost amounts.
      I believe he usually goes with 28 now

  • @philipferreira33
    @philipferreira33 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello Richard.
    I'm putting some gap in a Toyota 3UZ V8 engine for a turbo project.
    When I removed the pistons I documented all the ring cap positions.
    I found that some of the top and second ring gaps was almost lined up.
    The question is: Should I put the ring gaps in the same position or should I spread the gaps 180 degrees?
    Thanks Philip

  • @louisward3654
    @louisward3654 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Richard Holener So, you hear people running different gap for the top and bottom ring. 25 top 27 bottom seems to b a highly recommended gap. Thoughts?

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      WE USE THE SAME BUT IT LIKELY WORKS BOTH WAYS

    • @louisward3654
      @louisward3654 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@richardholdener1727 what gap would you recommend?

  • @davidcomp4898
    @davidcomp4898 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks Richard alot of good info!

  • @dannytravis7118
    @dannytravis7118 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'll tell you something about me. I'm lazy. personally I'd rather take an engine apart while it's on the engine stand so I can see everything better and check it before putting in something. that's too much work to put in and take out if it's bad or blows up. I have done both. I put a used engine in a car and it didn't have any power. it sucked so badly I sold the car and gave up on it. I'm still driving a truck I bought a used engine and took it apart on a stand checked it out. the timing chain was trashed. a new timing set and oil pump and she still runs great for a 4.3 v6 .it's been 6 years. only reason I told you about putting a LS or 283 in it is to make it weekend hotrod instead of the daily driver it is now.

  • @johnparrish9215
    @johnparrish9215 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Would it be possible to test detonation thresholds and pressures if you used a set of modified fourth-gen LS heads on a third-gen short block?
    You could use the Direct Injection ports for the pressure sensors and I've seen there are adapters to run third-gen intakes on fourth-gen heads.
    It would be the only way that I can think of that detonation could be studied in real-time without spending millions of dollars.

  • @Dgrant_gbody
    @Dgrant_gbody ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you reuse factory rod bearings when taking piston apart for ring gap or do they have to be replaced too?

  • @beachboardfan9544
    @beachboardfan9544 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    46:00 In your opinion what is the best motor? Not for the job, just in general. If you could only have one motor for the rest of your life, which would you have?

  • @kinley23
    @kinley23 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What about gap for hypereutectic pistons in a n/a truck motor that will occasionally see towing a trailer with a stg2 truck cam

  • @nitro1271
    @nitro1271 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have an 06 4.8 that I'm going to be turboing, look to get 800 out of the motor,is is a 28,000 Gap good for the horse power I want?

  • @stanley514
    @stanley514 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you run more gap in turbo 331 Fords with total seal rings? Top seal rings purchased for boosted build.

  • @JA-xv8qk
    @JA-xv8qk 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I have a set of weisco pistons that are used and the rings look good on them so should I reuse them, I know some people say not to use them and others say it's ok as long as you put a cross hatch pattern back in the bore.

  • @MrLightning54
    @MrLightning54 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I seen the factory ring gap specs for my truck (2019 5.0) and it's between .012, and .014, Yikes!! It has a Whipple and is ran hard. No highway Bansia pulls for this guy, lol! I have no way of knowing if the gap is actually that tight, just a pdf file from Ford that has those numbers written.

  • @Xxjoker21xX
    @Xxjoker21xX 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The Question is what are the Rings made from and size of the Cylinder !

  • @BearFulmer
    @BearFulmer 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I fired up my 6.0 with .028 top and .030 bottom and didn't notice any real blow by and I have not got the rings seated good yet. Going to dyno before and after turbo

  • @jamesgivens9036
    @jamesgivens9036 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What would you change first. Pistons or rods for boosted LS

  • @echadmiyodea
    @echadmiyodea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Taking spark advance away will reduce likelihood of detonation, of course, but there is a point where the late burning can then cause pre-ignition, which can be just as bad. The idea is to only lower spark advance in order to maintain a good combustion speed for best power, and not to use it to excessively slow the burn as a band-aid. The same holds true for excessively rich AFR. Either way you will eventually cause a problem. There are other ways to control detonation, but if you are using the SA and AFR like most people do, then as you pull the spark advance down you also want to pull some fuel out too. most people aren't doing that.

  • @danieldimitri6133
    @danieldimitri6133 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Backwards pistons 🤣. Yes pin offset changes the shape of the piston postion/velocity/acceleration curves. But turning the pistons around assumes that the factory got the direction wrong. Hey, maybe a big volume hemi head likes a little downward piston velocity to pickup port velocity. Or maybe the opposite is true. Maybe a small chamber with a fast burn is knock prone and needs the piston to move out of the way faster but were talking about differences of a couple thosandths of and inch for matching crank angles and either way the pin is offset will slightly make the top of the piston travel appear to dwell less. Any velocity change would just correlate to a slightly different rpm (thought the integral of the velocity has to be the same some section of the travel may be more important than another). Reher morrison doesnt put much faith in rod ratio changes in their book (at least within the same architecture that is, sure 4:1 is likely different from 1.4:1 but is 1.6:1 different from 1.7:1?). It sounds like something someone through in with like a dozen other changes and felt like the car was better than rigorous a/b single change testing.

    • @shadjohnsen8143
      @shadjohnsen8143 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The piston flip to reverse is an old school racing thing. It may allow more blow-by but it’s supposed to allow the engine to rev faster. I don’t think it makes any more power, just supposed to make the engine looser so it will rev faster.

    • @DarkLinkAD
      @DarkLinkAD 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      A lot of newer engines are already offset, the 3400 sfi being one.

  • @johnjagodzinski407
    @johnjagodzinski407 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What about a L98 5.7 stroked to a 383 and then putting a procharger with 10lbs of boost??

  • @daryllba
    @daryllba 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Richard. Glad you did this video on ring gap. I also have a 376/525 . Hated the asa cam so put in a ls9 and heartbeat supercharger at 9 psi. Love the results but now think I should install ring gap an studs. Tx again.

  • @101jkincaid
    @101jkincaid 6 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Whats a good NA cammed 5.3 gap? Top and 2nd ring

  • @Ty-ur4hw
    @Ty-ur4hw 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Richard I'm currently putting my first turbo LS engine together its a stock short block LQ4 gonna run a ebay gt45 turbo my dilemma is im lost on what heads to run i have a set of 317s also a set of 243's and set of LS3 823's curious what would you run outta my 3 options im sure you have been asked this a million times appreciate any advice or opinion you could give. Thank you

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      any of those will max out that turbo

    • @Ty-ur4hw
      @Ty-ur4hw 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Eventually I plan on going with a bigger and better turbo i was just lost with all the back in fourth on whats better cathedral port or Ls3 heads with boost

  • @1magnit
    @1magnit 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If it doesn't detonate, the ringlands won't break?
    If it runs out of coolant and gets so hot that it seizes, the pistons end up scuffing on the bores, the rings don't butt but it seizes due to the pistons, not the rings.
    If you do the maths with expansion coefficient , rise in temp, material, why is it that the ring ends don't butt before the pistons run out of clearance?
    So how does this ring gap thing work?

    • @TwoLotus2
      @TwoLotus2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      According to Wiseco on their website-- The pistons expand a lot. The bores, not so much (typically, if they are iron). The top ring itself expands and therefore, lengthens.

    • @1magnit
      @1magnit 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TwoLotus2 The rings are cast iron, same as the block in most cases

    • @TwoLotus2
      @TwoLotus2 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@1magnit It also gets pretty dang hot.

    • @1magnit
      @1magnit 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@TwoLotus2 not as hot as the piston because the heat flows from the piston through the rings to the bore and then the water jacket.

  • @shadjohnsen8143
    @shadjohnsen8143 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you have to use a plastigauge when reattaching the rods to the crank?

  • @mikescherrer4923
    @mikescherrer4923 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Richard, what are your thoughts on dual volute turbochargers like the new Hyundai’s (I believe) use? It seems like a cool solution, although it makes the exhaust design more complex.

  • @westcoast6162
    @westcoast6162 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Are the mahle multilayer head gaskets good for boost on the 5.3

  • @jpotenzone1
    @jpotenzone1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Richard, I’m adding an F1A procharger to my LS2 motor. Boost is boost and factory gap on the ls2 rings is .025. Have you found that the published specs for gap aren’t always consistent?

  • @scatpack7141
    @scatpack7141 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video and information on ring gap! Thanks!

  • @tyferguson564
    @tyferguson564 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What brand rings you recommend for a stock 6.0??

  • @Vipparmsbrygga
    @Vipparmsbrygga 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ot Richard but some time ago you said you gonna do a video about compressormaps,have you done it?

  • @robzillagarage
    @robzillagarage 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What happens if you file the 2nd ring with the same gap as the top ring? Asking for a friend 👀

  • @MrZX1206
    @MrZX1206 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you have a clock or a fan or something running that is near the microphone?

  • @CLAYTONTHEBRAIN
    @CLAYTONTHEBRAIN 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    how high can the static compression be with boost? I see "Billy the kid" from the street racing channel running a stout 400 CID SBC and I believe they are running 13:1 compression. That seems way to high with boost but Billy is doing pretty good with his turbo powered 400 SBC S10. So how much compression is too much compression?

  • @deanolewis2342
    @deanolewis2342 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Richard.Whats the best ring gap for 20lbs of boost on a lq9

  • @shadowopsairman1583
    @shadowopsairman1583 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    @Richard Holdener, can we get a comparison of the Stock Gen 3 LS Truck Intake, to the Gen 4 Breadbox and the Super Auto 615-183X / Dorman 615-183?

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I've tested most of those (is bread box the tbss?) not familiar with super auto

  • @boostedgringo5885
    @boostedgringo5885 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Nivlak57 is the channel FYI

  • @richardi9696
    @richardi9696 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are you saying 0.027-0.028 on just top and 2nd ring, or all rings including oil rings?

  • @jesseleister1525
    @jesseleister1525 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    When do you plan on running that 429 ford? Great content. Keep it up!!

  • @tommywicker1432
    @tommywicker1432 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    705 on 3 stages, top ring 034, second 038, top oil 038, bottom oil 010-015

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      interesting-I've never added gap to the oil rings

    • @kevinwest3689
      @kevinwest3689 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I've watched a guy that did this. Apparently it helps from lifting Compression ring off of ring land. Video I watched was from Is total seal and an old time Racer/ Engine builder. They went 32 I believe on a 4" bore and the fella was saying 20 thousand over top ring for oil Didn't bring blow by issue in testing. Interesting stuff.

  • @ronshotrodhouse49
    @ronshotrodhouse49 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    is it nessary to gap oil rings as well

  • @sleepernation
    @sleepernation 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Richard Do you find any difference in using fel pro head gaskets over GM performance on 600+ builds

  • @Xxjoker21xX
    @Xxjoker21xX 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    the Harder the Material the Higher the temp it can handle!

  • @whocares5188
    @whocares5188 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I hope you play with some ej25s. You can get na all day at the junk yard

  • @Dr_Xyzt
    @Dr_Xyzt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Units are (alpha) *10^-6 in/inF. Stainless is 9.6(alpha).
    -- A Stainless ring on a 4" bore with a 500 degree temperature differential is .060" of perimeter. An Iron ring is 5.8(alpha) is .036" of perimeter.
    -- On a good day, 2618 is 50 KSI strength at room temperature, but only 9KSI at 500F. 26 KSI at 400F. 44 KSi at 300F
    -- If you double the pressure, you double the ring gap.
    You can build an engine pretty tight if you know what it's gonna do at steady state. Good luck!

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      that assumes we have lots of in cylinder temp and pressure data-junkyard guys no gots!

    • @Dr_Xyzt
      @Dr_Xyzt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@richardholdener1727 Very true. Ballpark figures. GM has to hold that engine in a dyno cell at 5500 RPM to simulate a gnarly hill on a truck loaded to its limit, with some knock retard. They've gotta be using at least 20%, or else even a cam would put us over the edge.

  • @ricknichol260
    @ricknichol260 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The fact did that to my friends girlfriends brand new Camaro special edition back in what 2002 Think that's what year it was He Was getting on it a little hard And it blew up

  • @echadmiyodea
    @echadmiyodea 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Injecting fuel on the back of the valve was determined best for most predictable emissions output. It wasn't for best power output.

  • @mathewhoffer4541
    @mathewhoffer4541 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Instead of "testing" ring gap growth at certain temps and timing why not simply ASK a tech at a company that makes rings like sealed power or total seal because they spend millions in R&D which comes back to simply ask an engineer (someone smarter then all of us)

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      they don't spend millions in R&D and how can you determine what your ring temp is in your combo (and thus the growth?)

  • @GR8TTSpeed
    @GR8TTSpeed 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do you have a Patreon Page?

  • @silkysixx
    @silkysixx 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I hope triple-scroll turbos become a thing. A pair of those on an inline six would be epic.

    • @christianmeeks4430
      @christianmeeks4430 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      A triple scroll on an inline six would be pointless. A twin scroll is optimal for an inline six because when you break it down into two sections of three the exhaust pulses do not overlap and cause interference as long as you are running a header. If you run a twin turbo setup with three cylinders feeding one turbo a single scroll turbo is going to work the best.

    • @silkysixx
      @silkysixx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@christianmeeks4430 you contradicted yourself.

    • @christianmeeks4430
      @christianmeeks4430 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      How? In both cases the exhaust pulses are even with three cylinders per scroll in a single twin scroll turbo or three cylinders per single scroll turbo in a twin turbo setup.

    • @silkysixx
      @silkysixx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@christianmeeks4430 would a triple scroll turbine housing work on a 3-cylinder engine, if one was easy to get?

    • @christianmeeks4430
      @christianmeeks4430 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@silkysixx A triple scroll turbine housing on a three cylinder would be entirely redundant. The exhaust pulses on a three cylinder have zero interference because of the amount of rotation between combustion events.

  • @mauricecooper176
    @mauricecooper176 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The more I think about it ring gap should not change with mileage because the 2 edges don't touch

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      the outer edges of the ring wear and the bore wears-those increase gap

    • @mauricecooper176
      @mauricecooper176 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@richardholdener1727 I see says the blind man

  • @russelectrichrs
    @russelectrichrs 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    But do you answer yourself?😂

  • @seanskuratowicz8372
    @seanskuratowicz8372 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    We need to see a turbo and a supercharger at once

  • @coatingsplatingsjas1powder557
    @coatingsplatingsjas1powder557 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whats your take on total seal piston rings

  • @jeffreywaterson3053
    @jeffreywaterson3053 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    GM states the stock bottom is rated at 450 fp. torque at 5800rpm. ? after that , reliability will suffer .

    • @richardholdener1727
      @richardholdener1727  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      on the ls? That is only 1/2 way to where we run them

    • @jeffreywaterson3053
      @jeffreywaterson3053 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@richardholdener1727 Yes I know , I watched on a TH-cam video a stock 4.3 V6 make 1,200 hp and not explode !WOW !

  • @R4ZZ3LD4ZZ3L
    @R4ZZ3LD4ZZ3L 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Re ring gap variations I think its just poor consistency from factory.

  • @modularpowered
    @modularpowered 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's what I set my motor to, .005 per inch.

  • @tommywicker1432
    @tommywicker1432 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nitro Methane 😁

  • @WesternReloader
    @WesternReloader 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why not go with gapless rings