71+ year old FUD here. Another educational and entertaining video. I just watched it after watching the episode on the 30 caliber cartridge design. Most of my comments on that video apply here especially as to the reasons for the existence of the new super blasters; profit for cartridge manufacturers and stroking the egos on long range wannabe snipers using live animals for target practice. Most of these newer cartridges are answers looking for non-existent problems. “Slight” differences in case design don’t make a cartridge kill any better than another one with similar case capacity. It’s still how fast a cartridge can drive a given bullet that counts. I’m in the tried and true 7x57 and 7 Rem Mag camp. I don’t currently have a 7 mag, but if I wanted something hotter than my 7x57 that’s what I’m going to. Economic reality is an important design factor for me. Plenty of good rifles on the market because of the marketing efforts of the cartridge and rifle manufacturers. It’s just like cars. Trade ins with a few cosmetic flaws can be a good deal for the average guy or gal on a budget. I do have a comparison to make between the 7mm-08 and 7x57 but I’m going to save that for your new episode on the 7mm-08, which is on my “just cause” bucket want/wish list. I could add both the plain 280 Remington or the Ackley to that list. There’s no such thing as too many rifles.😂 Happy hunting boys and girls!😊
In my humble opinion, every single pick you made was thought through and honest. I agreed 100% and also have very similar cartridge philosophy as you do 👍🙏✌ oh and welcome back
Two of my friends whom I hunt with use both, each claiming their choice is best😂 I love listening in to your channel. Ive not jumped on the 6.5 or 7 craze, I just continued to upgrade a few hunting rifles to meet my uncles standards including carefully tailoring accuracy loads. You are absolutely correct. Those two been developing their loads competing against each other along with their magnum rifles. Ive witnessed what the Ackley and Remington can do to 3XL Bull Moose with a well placed headshot courtesy of the 175gr Partition. They dont go anywhere, They are dead before they hit the ground - Alex Anvil
As usual. Great video. I still think the series you did towards the beginning of your channel applying logic to whittle down the single best or best 2, best 3…. Was REALLY well done too
Great job. I picked the 280 Atlee because it’s the only one that can shoot two different cartridges. It also is about the same horsepower as the 7 mm Remington and the 7PRC. One small note, and several places you were saying 5.32 which would be 5 inches 320,000. I’m sure you meant .532 that you repeatedly said it during a couple of the cartridge comparisons. I subscribe trying to get you over 1000. I will share this at this it is a plethora of information. Great job glad you’re feeling better.
I agree with your top 3 choices. I own two of the 3 choices. I like using my 7mm-08 on short distance hunts and my 28 nosler for long distance hurts. Thanks for the video
Thanks for the great comarisons and a very objective opinion of the best. I don't disagree with any of the conclusions. For me, I guess to be fair, I would ask myself, which 7mm best suits a specific goal such as 'My wife needs a new hunting rifle, so I will buy her the 7mm-08'. And so on...I can say my favorite gun to shoot is my 28Nosler, but again, that serves a specific purpose. This rifle shoots like the bullet is on 1000yd rails so if the goal is a magnum long range target blaster, then I can give an educated recommendation for the Nosler. Just buy two custom barrels at a time🤣.Thanks HB!
Loved the video and 100% agree with your conclusion. It seems very hard though, to evaluate "best Design" without other things creeping in. Designed for what? Everybody wants to consider their application, and of course that should figure in to each individuals decision on what's right for them. Something about the design that I didn't hear you talk about much is the "head height" available for the action length the cartridge was designed for. Most of the older cartridges were not designed to allow for long heavy bullets, without pushing the bullet base down into the case too far. It'd be almost impossible to load a long heavy 7mm bullet in a short action magazine without getting it down into the body of the case. I really like the design work Hornady has put in to all of their recent cartridges. I did find it funny though that your were considering the "design" of the 7-08 and 280 Rem when the only design was necking down an existing military cartridge.
Thank you for watching! Good points. The 280 and 7-08 owe most of their design to their parents. The 7 PRC owes a lot to the 375 Ruger and 6.5 Creedmoor. I appreciate your comment
8.5 twist is really the best twist for 7mm. You can do light bullets and heavy all the way to 195. 8 limits you to heavy only. 9.5 stops about 175. So 8.5 is the sweet spot.
I have one added pat on the back. I noticed that you responded to each and every comment. I think this is a First in the TH-cam universe. Thank you for all you do. Stay safe.
As a 7mm shooter/hunter/loader for many years living and hunting in the southeastern U.S., I have chosen the .280AI as my cartridge of choice. The 7mm-08 is my “tree stand” cartridge. Both cartridges are very efficient loading for them. I have loaded, hunted, and shot all 7mm cartridges with the exception of the Rum and STW. Way too much cartridge for my use. The 7 saum has been on deck for me. Thanks nd enjoyed your point of view.
Also, if you like a very efficient case with good barrel life, the 280 Rem with 8.5 Twist, loaded with 180g ELD-M in a 27" barrel is super accurate at 2700....run the numbers on the 180g with .796 BC, get ready for the shock of your life! Only uses a smidge of powder!
Take a look at the Nosler reloading manual #4 at the std. 280 Remington. The 160g bullets loaded at 2930 fps out of a 24" barrel, loaded with IMR 7828 and federal 210's produce tiny groups out of rem 700's! Great barrel life, and reduced recoil. I have had several of the 7 STW, and since Winchester no longer makes the brass, it can not get to it's potential.
If you reload, the 7STW is based on the 8mm Rem Mag. Which is based on a blown out(necked down) 375 H&H. Any Weatherby Mag(in the same cartridge lengh) case can be used as well. Just neck down a 300-340 Wby to 7mm and it will fit @@scottscheuerman8714
7mm cartridge philosophy fascinates me. Other than the 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser, every 7mm cartridge on your list is built for speed and/or distance. Engineers/designers must have realized a .284 bullet with BCs approaching .80 were predestined for long distance accuracy and long distance hunting. What I call the "cartridge boom" of the 1950s and 1960s shows that designers like Roy Weatherby understood pushing a high BC bullet at high velocity would make a great performer which the masses would love. If you can push it faster, you can use a higher BC bullet--hence the proliferation of 7mm magnum or magnum-like cartridges. The philosophy behind these developments are truly fascinating.
@@hopefulballistics Feel free to build on my comment and use it. I think the "cartridge boom" of the 50s and 60s would be a fantastic video idea. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the resources.
Plain old 280 gets my vote. Im not a fan of Ackley Improved or any cartridges with greater case capacity in the 7mm bore size. Im a beliver in PO Ackley experiments in cartridge case capacity to bore size but not his 40 degree shoulder case design. Hand loaded for a 6mm Ackley for several years. Case did not lengthen but brass flowed and thicken at the junction of shoulder and neck. To each his own.
😂 I can't argue with your choice! 🤯 Just what the 👨⚕️ Doctor Ordered, some "Good Medicine" for the Holidays! 🍾 A cartridge that is readily available in rifle choices and factory ammunition, cheap to shoot, light recoiling (fun to shoot), and proven to get the job done (even at extended ranges 🎯), and continues to get better with age (as new bullets and powders are developed🍷)! 🤑 The Good Doctor made me feel a little better today, regarding my rifle cartridge of choice! 🙂 I still want to get at least one 7mm rifle - but, unless that 280 AI becomes more popular and I can get it in a Sako rifle - it appears that I still won't be buying one any time soon! 😪
My only 7mm is the STW and I had it built when they was still a wild cat cartridge it seems to be a awesome cartridge I have shot the 7mm ultra magnum that a buddy had and it seemed to kick more of course I have a shillen 27 inch barrel on Remington 700 action
It I believe has a 1 in 9 twist rate it won’t stabilize bullets under 150 grain and it does shoot tite groups with a lot of loads just can’t shoot lighter bullets in it with my barrel
I personally like the idea of the 7mm rem mag with a 1-8 twist and utilizing the magnum case for 160-180 grain bullets and simply go hunting for just about anything North America has to offer, agree with most talking points, I believe the 280 rem is the true happy medium of all listed, just a shame that ammo is not more available than it is. Great video.
The 7 stw factory ammunition is watered way down u can really get alot out of it it would be hard to beat if u reload. But far a good factory ammunition the 7 weatherby the rum and rem mag are watered down also
My kind of video! I handload for a 7mm-08, 280ai, and 7mm rem mag. Cant go wrong with any, but my 280ai rifle has a Proof barrel and holds a 0.3 moa group. The 280ai is my go-to!
@@hopefulballistics - tikka 7mm-08 with a factory 22” barrel. Savage 110 with a Proof research barrel chambered in 280ai, it is set up as a lightweight backcountry hunting gun so i put a 22” barrel on it. Wish i put a 24” or even a 26”. But i get 2960fps with barnes 140 lrx so i cant complain. 7rem mag is a browning xbolt hell canyon with a 26” barrel. I get 3350 fps with 140gr bullets. Honestly i just dont need that speed because i would never shoot game beyond 500 yards anyway to take advantage of the ballistics. So i stick with the 280ai. All the above shoot under 1moa, with the 280 ai shooting under 0.5 moa. My best load is with hornady eldx at 0.25 moa.
Velocity with lighter bullets sometimes outdoes heavier longer lower velocity bullets. A 140 gr 7mm @ 3400+ fps beats a 7mm PRC bullet @ 3000 for body armor penetration in combat.
Even though I know it is not a 7 mm cartridge, in terms of balance between the 7-08 and the 7 PRC, if you are still wanting the fast twist rate and heavy for caliber bullets, and long range shooting ability with mild recoil, then the 6.8 Western seems to be the actual middleman king.
I have a 7mm08 and a 7 rem mag. If this was 5 years from now, I would probably have the PRC. I think it will stay around, I wish the case capacity was just a little bit more. I would have liked to see the new 190 grain projectiles at 3000 ft. per second. Who knows, maybe there is a powder/ primer combo that will do it?
@Hopeful Remnant apparently it does 180s at 3 grand factory loading. Hand loading the primer/ powder maybe gets you another 50 to 75 ft. per second. For 190s I'm thinking you need 7 to 10 more grains of powder. Maybe I'm just nitpicking at this point. You can get 3000 out of a 7mm rem mag, albeit not factory, it has to be hand loaded. The factory I've seen in the rem mag are 175s at 2900. So the PRC is better, just not that much better.
Here is the major problems with PRC when we talk design. It can not shoot light bullets. Due to crazy amount of free bore and twist rate being to fast. Guess what bullets sell out quicker. The heavy bullets. But most people hunt inside 300 yards. Light bullets going super fast works. 7 mag has .115 free bore which by the way you never took chamber designs into your comparison. A 7 mag case if fireformed gives you way more case capacity. The shoulder moves .019. This gives you a very stable headspace between the belt and the shoulder. Support front and back. Next a 8.5 twist allows you to shoot heavy or light and the freebore is not excessive so it doesn’t affect accuracy in light or heavy bullets. A 195 gn touching lands is 3.507 on Avg. That gives you more case capacity. So really your about 5grains more powder than the PRC and going 100-150fps faster than the PRC. Now we go to availability. Lots of great brass options for 7 mag. No offense but hornady brass just sucks. I use it with some reloads but never excited to use it. Next we go to QC most ammo for PRC will be hornady and their standards for bullets eldx is just a joke. +- 2 grains or worse. ELDm though is good. Next their ELDx on Ogive has to much variance also. So that means your going to reload the PRC to get the best velocity and accuracy. Well guess what a reloaded 7 mag beats the 7mm PRC all day and lot more options to reload and better options. Also both fit perfect in a standard action. No offense but to sell the PRC it needed to be in a short action. The 6.5 7mm PRC is a better option.
@Jess Hadlock why not just shoot a 28 nosler then? Why go through the custom loading of a 7mm 300 PRC when that cartridge when loaded right exceeds the length of most actions. Not practical at all. I find things much simpler. If I am hunting deer under 500 yards I am going to have a cartridge that has enough energy to 500 yards with the smallest amount of powder I can do. I mainly hunt with a 6.5 Grendel shooting a 123eldm at 2725. My other rifles are custom 25 creedmoor shooting a 135 Berger. And my 7 mag with a 195 over 2900. I plan on adding a bolt action 6mm ARC. Selling off my 6.5 PRC. Doesn’t make sense to me anymore. Grendel/ARC will be my 500 yards and in. Creed can be my 800 yards and In and my 7 mag can be my 1300 yards and in. Granted not shooting those distances but I’m covered. But to be honest one of my all time favorites to hunt with an old JM stamp 30-30.
The 284 Winchester is very interesting it seems to be similar to the 7 mm 08 and the 280 Remington also the 28th Nosler they all seem the same I would like to see them held up in front of the camera I don't have a sample
My friend has a 280 Ai I have a 280rem he has 24" I have 22" we both reload my loads are close to max shooting though corney I came with in 100fps if his 280Ai .
A little. The advantage you get from the ai over the standard 280 would be lost. It would basically be like a 24 inch 280 in a 22 inch barrel. Which isn’t terrible. So it just depends how you look at it.
🤠 You actually identified one of the main problems I have with the 7mm cartridges! And, that is, while their are lots of "choices" - Availability (in Guns and Factory Ammunition) is "something lacking" with most of them! From their, then it comes down to hunting needs - both terrain (expected shot distance) and animals being pursued (what weight bullet is needed)! A longer shot means a balance between acceptable recoil vs. accuracy needed enduring that recoil! Then, when you identify what would be your acceptable needs, you then have to look at the other calibers bracketing it, to see if their is not a "better alternative"! So, does the 7mm prc provide a recoil the I would "prefer" enduring? NO! And, I am not a fan of muzzle breaks (which are illegal in my State and approximately 8 others, anyway)! Does the 7mm-08 have enough range for my hunting needs? NO! Is the 280, with a lower operating pressure, able to do more than the 270 Winchester or 30-06, which I already have? NO! Is the 280 AI readily available? NO! Do I want to pack a 26" barrel in a 7mm Remington Magnum or do I like it's belt? NO! Hence my delema, as I still don't see the "ideal" 7mm cartridge for me, when I consider the other alternatives! So, "more choices" doesn't necessarily mean "better ones"! So, I think I'll just stick with what I already have for now! 🤷♂️
I'm just curious as to why the belt bothers you and others? Is it because you have struggled eith it in some way? Do you think its ugly? Or is it because someone somewhere decided to complain about it and others got on that band wagon, which does happen. I've been hunting with a 7mm rem mag. for 29yrs and not one single time whether in the field or sitting at home has the belt ever caused me an issue and i hand load for both of mine. Just curious as to why in the last several yrs. I keep hearing people say they dont like the belt when it was designed it's what they believed was needed. Thanks
@@John-km7ld I think this was addressed to Ron, but I’ll give you my answer. It’s purely nitpicky. I agree there is no practical issue with the belt, that’s worth getting aggravated about. Potentially, reloading issues. It’s just not headspacing off of the belt, so it’s a useless feature. It’s a design critique, and a minor one at that. The belt is fine, but if I can choose between two similar cases and one doesn’t have the belt, I’ll go with that one.
@@hopefulballistics ok thanks for the info on the issue being previously addressed, but for some reason i like the belt probably as meaningless as why you dont though but i like the old school ways. I kinda miss the old rotary phone. Lol
Plenty of sweet spot cartridge’s in 0.284” caliber for many different applications: 7mm-08 REM 280 AI 284 WIN 7 RSAUM 7mm PRCW 7 Rem Mag 7 WSM 7mm PRC These are all sweet like apple pie. 😊 What’s still missing is a ubiquitous short action 7 with a 1:8 twist with balanced performance and propellant capacity similar to the 280AI that is available in factory hunting rifles.
This is funny to me because considering how unimportant this discussion is compared to all the major happenings in the world. I day dream all day about cartridge and rifle design. Oh Well..... I love this stuff!!! My favorite is the plain Jane 280 Remington. Because of Goldie Locks case capacity for the 7mm bore. It feeds great from a long action magazine. Easy to handload for about the same cost as a 30-06. Ballistics of the 280 loaded to the pressures of a 270 Winchester and 30-06 slightly out performs them. Down side of the 280 is commonality. You will not be able to hunt world wide and find the 280 on the store shelf like an 06. If I was a long range F Class or benchrest shooter. The 7mm PRC would be the best. This makes the PRC mors specialized . In all honesty I'm better served by my 06 because of versatility, barrel life, economics to shoot and handload. Left the magical 7mms years ago.
🤠 You pretty much came to the "same conclusion" that I did! It is hard to beat the "good old 30-06" (unless it's a 270 Winchester 😜)! Excellent barrel life means you can pass that gun down to your grandchildren; a versatile and moderate recoiling rifle that can kill anything in North America; and cheap to shoot, with plenty of bullet options and no feeding issues! The 30-06 is the "ultimate definition" of the "KISS Rule"! 🤭
@@ronlowney4700 I have nothing but admiration for the 270. When Elmer Kieth said the 270 was good for a varmint cartridge he ment it as an insult to Jack O'Connor. The 270 is a fantastic long range varmint cartridge. As a hunting cartridge, I find the 270 to be most accurate. I sighted in many 270 hunting rifles before deer season over the years. You would think the 308 would be the most accurate but that ist not what I witnessed over the years sighting in rifles.
Having owned a 7mm Weatherby and looking at todays cartridge choices, I'd go 7mm SAUM for a magnum and 284 for a non magnum. These comparisons are great but recoil is a thing and having had a fractured collar bone in the past, the less recoil the better
@@hopefulballistics It is the most common 7mm cartridge in Europe and widely used in Africa especially South Africa. It predates most of the cartridges you talked about except the 7x57. It was designed by Wilhelm Brenneke and commercially introduced in 1927 for use in the Mauser action. When he designed it in 1917, he thought about use by snipers in the military, but it never made it there. It has usually a 1 in 8.66 twist rate and handles heavy bullets.
28 Nosler over 7mm RUM? The 28 Nosler is more modern but it's based on the RUM case. 28 Nosler is a slightly weaker 7mm RUM. How is the 28 Nosler more modern? Why would this matter? Have you shot both?
Correct me if I’m wrong. The 28 Nosler has a faster twist rate for heavier bullets. It’s just a matter of opinion. I feel the 28 nosler is a more efficient and not as overbore in a standard action making it a better design. Everyone’s opinion will vary based on intended application
.284 win vs 7mm pic is apples to oranges. They were designed for to complete different applications. When the .284 came out we didn’t have the style of high BC bullets we have now. The PRC was designed around the high BC bullets.
Viewers would like to see the cartridges side by side if you can hold them in your hand so we can see the whole case and the rim I would like to see a 280 add 284 and 7 mm 08 they all are trying to be a 28 Nosler
7mm RUM is king but people fear short barrel life. Most big 7s also have a short barrel life, but only the RUM has been killed over it. Mine is a 700 BDL.
Boo! You said this was on the design.... but picked the 7mm Rem mag because it has better ammo availability? Look at the velocities and you will have an easy answer on which cartridge is better designed. Oh no.... watching to the end. The 7mm PRC? Okay my serious answer is I have to go with what the PRS and F Class shooters choose. So I think it's a tie between the 284 Win and the 7SAUM.
The saum does fit a short action just fine. There is such things as a WSM cut. Secondly. 73.6 gn vs PRC 77 grains. The 7 saum is way more efficient and the long neck is just awesome. But in all honesty the 7 rem mag blows both of them away.
Calibers from 6.5 to 35 based on the 30-06 case is best. Calibers from 22 to 6.5 bast on 308 case is 2nd best. Calibers from 30 cal. to 45 cal. based on magnum belted case is possibly 3rd best even though I hate belted cases. I like to head space off at the shoulder of a bottle neck case. I prefer a 404 Jeffrey case for 30 cal and up . 30-06 case capacity is best over all. The standard 280 Remington will always be the perfect ideal medium game cartridge. The Ackley version of the 280 is a waste of time and trouble. I hate fire forming cases for a different shoulder angle for minimal gains. The only reason the 280 Ackley shows higher velocity than the standard 280 is becase the standard 280 is loaded to lower pressures for Remington pumps and automatics. All these modern cartridges are of good design but their extra cost and lack of commonality makes them not for me. The same reason I do not own a 280 Remington that I think is the idea cartridges. 30-06, 270, and 7mm-08 . Is what I'm left with for medium game. 7mm-08 is King. I could even make 7mm-08 cases from the more common 308. 7mm-08 !!!!!!
Generaly you have right. But if you use factory ammo situation is a little different. Like 7 prc vs 280 AI. = in factory ammo if you shooting long range target 7 prc wins. But if you are hunter IMHO 280Ai BC so much better bullet selection on factory ammo. Ofc if yourmade own ammo factory load is not relaven -But in this situation maybe 284 win is good too. Etc. Factory vs handmade ammo IMHO is different category.
71+ year old FUD here. Another educational and entertaining video. I just watched it after watching the episode on the 30 caliber cartridge design. Most of my comments on that video apply here especially as to the reasons for the existence of the new super blasters; profit for cartridge manufacturers and stroking the egos on long range wannabe snipers using live animals for target practice. Most of these newer cartridges are answers looking for non-existent problems. “Slight” differences in case design don’t make a cartridge kill any better than another one with similar case capacity. It’s still how fast a cartridge can drive a given bullet that counts.
I’m in the tried and true 7x57 and 7 Rem Mag camp. I don’t currently have a 7 mag, but if I wanted something hotter than my 7x57 that’s what I’m going to. Economic reality is an important design factor for me. Plenty of good rifles on the market because of the marketing efforts of the cartridge and rifle manufacturers. It’s just like cars. Trade ins with a few cosmetic flaws can be a good deal for the average guy or gal on a budget.
I do have a comparison to make between the 7mm-08 and 7x57 but I’m going to save that for your new episode on the 7mm-08, which is on my “just cause” bucket want/wish list. I could add both the plain 280 Remington or the Ackley to that list. There’s no such thing as too many rifles.😂 Happy hunting boys and girls!😊
I appreciate you watching and commenting!
I have a custom 280AI 1-8twist. I can run the 175eld-x @2960 safely. It hammers game.
That’s awesome! I’ve wanted to get something similar
In my humble opinion, every single pick you made was thought through and honest. I agreed 100% and also have very similar cartridge philosophy as you do 👍🙏✌ oh and welcome back
Thank you very much! Thanks for watching!
Two of my friends whom I hunt with use both, each claiming their choice is best😂 I love listening in to your channel. Ive not jumped on the 6.5 or 7 craze, I just continued to upgrade a few hunting rifles to meet my uncles standards including carefully tailoring accuracy loads. You are absolutely correct. Those two been developing their loads competing against each other along with their magnum rifles.
Ive witnessed what the Ackley and Remington can do to 3XL Bull Moose with a well placed headshot courtesy of the 175gr Partition.
They dont go anywhere, They are dead before they hit the ground - Alex Anvil
Good information, thanks
As usual. Great video. I still think the series you did towards the beginning of your channel applying logic to whittle down the single best or best 2, best 3…. Was REALLY well done too
Thank you RPK! These type of videos are fun to make
Great job. I picked the 280 Atlee because it’s the only one that can shoot two different cartridges. It also is about the same horsepower as the 7 mm Remington and the 7PRC. One small note, and several places you were saying 5.32 which would be 5 inches 320,000. I’m sure you meant .532 that you repeatedly said it during a couple of the cartridge comparisons. I subscribe trying to get you over 1000. I will share this at this it is a plethora of information. Great job glad you’re feeling better.
You’re correct, I misspoke. Thank you for subscribing!! And thanks for sharing it! Take care
I agree with your top 3 choices. I own two of the 3 choices. I like using my 7mm-08 on short distance hunts and my 28 nosler for long distance hurts. Thanks for the video
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
Good choices
Interesting video -- the 6.5 mm and 7mm bullets are hard to beat. I have a 7mm Rem Mag, but the 280 Rem and 280 AI may be the ultimate 7mm rounds.
They’re definitely great cartridges
Thanks for the great comarisons and a very objective opinion of the best. I don't disagree with any of the conclusions. For me, I guess to be fair, I would ask myself, which 7mm best suits a specific goal such as 'My wife needs a new hunting rifle, so I will buy her the 7mm-08'. And so on...I can say my favorite gun to shoot is my 28Nosler, but again, that serves a specific purpose. This rifle shoots like the bullet is on 1000yd rails so if the goal is a magnum long range target blaster, then I can give an educated recommendation for the Nosler. Just buy two custom barrels at a time🤣.Thanks HB!
Great way of thinking of it! Thanks
Well said.. 🎯
Loved the video and 100% agree with your conclusion. It seems very hard though, to evaluate "best Design" without other things creeping in. Designed for what? Everybody wants to consider their application, and of course that should figure in to each individuals decision on what's right for them. Something about the design that I didn't hear you talk about much is the "head height" available for the action length the cartridge was designed for. Most of the older cartridges were not designed to allow for long heavy bullets, without pushing the bullet base down into the case too far. It'd be almost impossible to load a long heavy 7mm bullet in a short action magazine without getting it down into the body of the case. I really like the design work Hornady has put in to all of their recent cartridges. I did find it funny though that your were considering the "design" of the 7-08 and 280 Rem when the only design was necking down an existing military cartridge.
Thank you for watching! Good points. The 280 and 7-08 owe most of their design to their parents. The 7 PRC owes a lot to the 375 Ruger and 6.5 Creedmoor. I appreciate your comment
8.5 twist is really the best twist for 7mm. You can do light bullets and heavy all the way to 195. 8 limits you to heavy only. 9.5 stops about 175. So 8.5 is the sweet spot.
Interesting, thanks! Makes since
I have one added pat on the back. I noticed that you responded to each and every comment. I think this is a First in the TH-cam universe. Thank you for all you do. Stay safe.
I appreciate you saying that! Thank you for watching!
As a 7mm shooter/hunter/loader for many years living and hunting in the southeastern U.S., I have chosen the .280AI as my cartridge of choice. The 7mm-08 is my “tree stand” cartridge. Both cartridges are very efficient loading for them. I have loaded, hunted, and shot all 7mm cartridges with the exception of the Rum and STW. Way too much cartridge for my use. The 7 saum has been on deck for me. Thanks nd enjoyed your point of view.
I appreciate your comment and watching the video! You can’t go wrong with 280 AI and 7mm/08
Also, if you like a very efficient case with good barrel life, the 280 Rem with 8.5 Twist, loaded with 180g ELD-M in a 27" barrel is super accurate at 2700....run the numbers on the 180g with .796 BC, get ready for the shock of your life! Only uses a smidge of powder!
Yeah I could see that
Enjoyed the video. You really did a lot of prep. A whole lot of information.
Thank you for watching!!
I'm going more with 280 A I.
I totally get that
Take a look at the Nosler reloading manual #4 at the std. 280 Remington. The 160g bullets loaded at 2930 fps out of a 24" barrel, loaded with IMR 7828 and federal 210's produce tiny groups out of rem 700's! Great barrel life, and reduced recoil.
I have had several of the 7 STW, and since Winchester no longer makes the brass, it can not get to it's potential.
Thanks
But the STW is based on the necked down 8mm Rem Mag. Still available(now and then) Googling 8mm RM or 7STW might get you brass
Nosler has brass available for the 7mm stw still it’s just really expensive
If you reload, the 7STW is based on the 8mm Rem Mag. Which is based on a blown out(necked down) 375 H&H. Any Weatherby Mag(in the same cartridge lengh) case can be used as well. Just neck down a 300-340 Wby to 7mm and it will fit @@scottscheuerman8714
If you are using a 28 nosler for hunting it will last a life time..great content good job
You’re correct! Thank you!
7mm cartridge philosophy fascinates me. Other than the 7mm-08 and 7mm Mauser, every 7mm cartridge on your list is built for speed and/or distance. Engineers/designers must have realized a .284 bullet with BCs approaching .80 were predestined for long distance accuracy and long distance hunting. What I call the "cartridge boom" of the 1950s and 1960s shows that designers like Roy Weatherby understood pushing a high BC bullet at high velocity would make a great performer which the masses would love. If you can push it faster, you can use a higher BC bullet--hence the proliferation of 7mm magnum or magnum-like cartridges. The philosophy behind these developments are truly fascinating.
I agree! Great comment! I spent 40 minutes, but a lot more discussion could be had on the subject
@@hopefulballistics Feel free to build on my comment and use it. I think the "cartridge boom" of the 50s and 60s would be a fantastic video idea. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the resources.
@@tacticalmattfoley I might do that
@@tacticalmattfoley look at 7x33 sako. Make 223 look like a powerhouse.
Plain old 280 gets my vote. Im not a fan of Ackley Improved or any cartridges with greater case capacity in the 7mm bore size. Im a beliver in PO Ackley experiments in cartridge case capacity to bore size but not his 40 degree shoulder case design. Hand loaded for a 6mm Ackley for several years. Case did not lengthen but brass flowed and thicken at the junction of shoulder and neck. To each his own.
Thanks for watching
7 WSM even though not popular! Ammo availability killed it!
Definitely an underrated cartridge
Did you know that the 270 Winchester is actually a true 7mm cartridge? With that being said my choice is 270 Winchester.
There you go!
Yup I second the motion lol
@Jess Hadlock absolutely 💯 👌
😂 I can't argue with your choice! 🤯 Just what the 👨⚕️ Doctor Ordered, some "Good Medicine" for the Holidays! 🍾 A cartridge that is readily available in rifle choices and factory ammunition, cheap to shoot, light recoiling (fun to shoot), and proven to get the job done (even at extended ranges 🎯), and continues to get better with age (as new bullets and powders are developed🍷)! 🤑 The Good Doctor made me feel a little better today, regarding my rifle cartridge of choice! 🙂 I still want to get at least one 7mm rifle - but, unless that 280 AI becomes more popular and I can get it in a Sako rifle - it appears that I still won't be buying one any time soon! 😪
My only 7mm is the STW and I had it built when they was still a wild cat cartridge it seems to be a awesome cartridge I have shot the 7mm ultra magnum that a buddy had and it seemed to kick more of course I have a shillen 27 inch barrel on Remington 700 action
Nice! I’ve never shot one, but it’s a cool cartridge
It I believe has a 1 in 9 twist rate it won’t stabilize bullets under 150 grain and it does shoot tite groups with a lot of loads just can’t shoot lighter bullets in it with my barrel
I personally like the idea of the 7mm rem mag with a 1-8 twist and utilizing the magnum case for 160-180 grain bullets and simply go hunting for just about anything North America has to offer, agree with most talking points, I believe the 280 rem is the true happy medium of all listed, just a shame that ammo is not more available than it is. Great video.
7 mag with 1 in 8 twist is cool.
I would like a 7mm PRC but would most likely use a 7mm 08. It is a conservative cartridge and is good for hunting.
Can’t go wrong with either
After seeing reloading Weatherby videos on prc compared to the 08 really put things into perspective for me.
Be great to see you do a 7mm-08 AI video. Thanks for the great content 👍
Thank you for watching! 7mm-08….definitely cool.
My personal favorite is my Remington 700 chambered in 280!!!!!
Nice!
The 7 stw factory ammunition is watered way down u can really get alot out of it it would be hard to beat if u reload. But far a good factory ammunition the 7 weatherby the rum and rem mag are watered down also
Interesting, I didn’t know that
My kind of video! I handload for a 7mm-08, 280ai, and 7mm rem mag. Cant go wrong with any, but my 280ai rifle has a Proof barrel and holds a 0.3 moa group. The 280ai is my go-to!
Thanks! What barrel lengths do you have?
@@hopefulballistics - tikka 7mm-08 with a factory 22” barrel. Savage 110 with a Proof research barrel chambered in 280ai, it is set up as a lightweight backcountry hunting gun so i put a 22” barrel on it. Wish i put a 24” or even a 26”. But i get 2960fps with barnes 140 lrx so i cant complain. 7rem mag is a browning xbolt hell canyon with a 26” barrel. I get 3350 fps with 140gr bullets. Honestly i just dont need that speed because i would never shoot game beyond 500 yards anyway to take advantage of the ballistics. So i stick with the 280ai. All the above shoot under 1moa, with the 280 ai shooting under 0.5 moa. My best load is with hornady eldx at 0.25 moa.
Velocity with lighter bullets sometimes outdoes heavier longer lower velocity bullets. A 140 gr 7mm @ 3400+ fps beats a 7mm PRC bullet @ 3000 for body armor penetration in combat.
This is true
What about rifle availability? I would think the 7.08 is more available at reasonable costs than the 7PRC and 28 Nosler.
I would agree…. for now. I think the 7 prc will only get more available as time goes on.
7mm mauser is only 7 I've ever owned lol and main reason was it was $40. Safety was stuck in fire position 2 minute fix
Lol, nice!
Lets not forget the 7x64 Brenneke, the original 280 REMINGTON.
True
Even though I know it is not a 7 mm cartridge, in terms of balance between the 7-08 and the 7 PRC, if you are still wanting the fast twist rate and heavy for caliber bullets, and long range shooting ability with mild recoil, then the 6.8 Western seems to be the actual middleman king.
I considered adding the 277 caliber cartridges into this discussion, because they are so similar
@Jess Hadlock very astute observations
I have a 7mm08 and a 7 rem mag. If this was 5 years from now, I would probably have the PRC. I think it will stay around, I wish the case capacity was just a little bit more. I would have liked to see the new 190 grain projectiles at 3000 ft. per second. Who knows, maybe there is a powder/ primer combo that will do it?
190 at 3000 would be something for sure
@Hopeful Remnant apparently it does 180s at 3 grand factory loading. Hand loading the primer/ powder maybe gets you another 50 to 75 ft. per second. For 190s I'm thinking you need 7 to 10 more grains of powder. Maybe I'm just nitpicking at this point. You can get 3000 out of a 7mm rem mag, albeit not factory, it has to be hand loaded. The factory I've seen in the rem mag are 175s at 2900. So the PRC is better, just not that much better.
Here is the major problems with PRC when we talk design. It can not shoot light bullets. Due to crazy amount of free bore and twist rate being to fast. Guess what bullets sell out quicker. The heavy bullets. But most people hunt inside 300 yards. Light bullets going super fast works. 7 mag has .115 free bore which by the way you never took chamber designs into your comparison. A 7 mag case if fireformed gives you way more case capacity. The shoulder moves .019. This gives you a very stable headspace between the belt and the shoulder. Support front and back. Next a 8.5 twist allows you to shoot heavy or light and the freebore is not excessive so it doesn’t affect accuracy in light or heavy bullets. A 195 gn touching lands is 3.507 on Avg. That gives you more case capacity. So really your about 5grains more powder than the PRC and going 100-150fps faster than the PRC. Now we go to availability. Lots of great brass options for 7 mag. No offense but hornady brass just sucks. I use it with some reloads but never excited to use it. Next we go to QC most ammo for PRC will be hornady and their standards for bullets eldx is just a joke. +- 2 grains or worse. ELDm though is good. Next their ELDx on Ogive has to much variance also. So that means your going to reload the PRC to get the best velocity and accuracy. Well guess what a reloaded 7 mag beats the 7mm PRC all day and lot more options to reload and better options. Also both fit perfect in a standard action. No offense but to sell the PRC it needed to be in a short action. The 6.5 7mm PRC is a better option.
I appreciate your detailed and well thought out comment! Good points
@Jess Hadlock why not just shoot a 28 nosler then? Why go through the custom loading of a 7mm 300 PRC when that cartridge when loaded right exceeds the length of most actions. Not practical at all. I find things much simpler. If I am hunting deer under 500 yards I am going to have a cartridge that has enough energy to 500 yards with the smallest amount of powder I can do. I mainly hunt with a 6.5 Grendel shooting a 123eldm at 2725. My other rifles are custom 25 creedmoor shooting a 135 Berger. And my 7 mag with a 195 over 2900. I plan on adding a bolt action 6mm ARC. Selling off my 6.5 PRC. Doesn’t make sense to me anymore. Grendel/ARC will be my 500 yards and in. Creed can be my 800 yards and In and my 7 mag can be my 1300 yards and in. Granted not shooting those distances but I’m covered. But to be honest one of my all time favorites to hunt with an old JM stamp 30-30.
The 284 Winchester is very interesting it seems to be similar to the 7 mm 08 and the 280 Remington also the 28th Nosler they all seem the same I would like to see them held up in front of the camera I don't have a sample
If I had them all I would. Don’t have a 28 nosler.
My friend has a 280 Ai I have a 280rem he has 24" I have 22" we both reload my loads are close to max shooting though corney I came with in 100fps if his 280Ai .
7x57 Mauser
It’s a good one
Would you be hindering the 280ai in a 22in barrel?
A little. The advantage you get from the ai over the standard 280 would be lost. It would basically be like a 24 inch 280 in a 22 inch barrel. Which isn’t terrible. So it just depends how you look at it.
🤠 You actually identified one of the main problems I have with the 7mm cartridges! And, that is, while their are lots of "choices" - Availability (in Guns and Factory Ammunition) is "something lacking" with most of them! From their, then it comes down to hunting needs - both terrain (expected shot distance) and animals being pursued (what weight bullet is needed)! A longer shot means a balance between acceptable recoil vs. accuracy needed enduring that recoil! Then, when you identify what would be your acceptable needs, you then have to look at the other calibers bracketing it, to see if their is not a "better alternative"! So, does the 7mm prc provide a recoil the I would "prefer" enduring? NO! And, I am not a fan of muzzle breaks (which are illegal in my State and approximately 8 others, anyway)! Does the 7mm-08 have enough range for my hunting needs? NO! Is the 280, with a lower operating pressure, able to do more than the 270 Winchester or 30-06, which I already have? NO! Is the 280 AI readily available? NO! Do I want to pack a 26" barrel in a 7mm Remington Magnum or do I like it's belt? NO! Hence my delema, as I still don't see the "ideal" 7mm cartridge for me, when I consider the other alternatives! So, "more choices" doesn't necessarily mean "better ones"! So, I think I'll just stick with what I already have for now! 🤷♂️
I can understand sticking with what you already have, makes sense. I would say someone any cartridge you mentioned would feel the same. ✌️
I'm just curious as to why the belt bothers you and others? Is it because you have struggled eith it in some way? Do you think its ugly? Or is it because someone somewhere decided to complain about it and others got on that band wagon, which does happen. I've been hunting with a 7mm rem mag. for 29yrs and not one single time whether in the field or sitting at home has the belt ever caused me an issue and i hand load for both of mine. Just curious as to why in the last several yrs. I keep hearing people say they dont like the belt when it was designed it's what they believed was needed. Thanks
@@John-km7ld I think this was addressed to Ron, but I’ll give you my answer. It’s purely nitpicky. I agree there is no practical issue with the belt, that’s worth getting aggravated about. Potentially, reloading issues. It’s just not headspacing off of the belt, so it’s a useless feature. It’s a design critique, and a minor one at that. The belt is fine, but if I can choose between two similar cases and one doesn’t have the belt, I’ll go with that one.
@@hopefulballistics ok thanks for the info on the issue being previously addressed, but for some reason i like the belt probably as meaningless as why you dont though but i like the old school ways. I kinda miss the old rotary phone. Lol
@@John-km7ld i totally get that! ✌️
I’ve been trying to find a 7mm to narrow it down to, thanks
Thanks for watching!
Plenty of sweet spot cartridge’s in 0.284” caliber for many different applications:
7mm-08 REM
280 AI
284 WIN
7 RSAUM
7mm PRCW
7 Rem Mag
7 WSM
7mm PRC
These are all sweet like apple pie. 😊
What’s still missing is a ubiquitous short action 7 with a 1:8 twist with balanced performance and propellant capacity similar to the 280AI that is available in factory hunting rifles.
That’s true. Good comment!
This is funny to me because considering how unimportant this discussion is compared to all the major happenings in the world. I day dream all day about cartridge and rifle design. Oh Well..... I love this stuff!!!
My favorite is the plain Jane 280 Remington.
Because of Goldie Locks case capacity for the 7mm bore. It feeds great from a long action magazine. Easy to handload for about the same cost as a 30-06. Ballistics of the 280 loaded to the pressures of a 270 Winchester and 30-06 slightly out performs them. Down side of the 280 is commonality. You will not be able to hunt world wide and find the 280 on the store shelf like an 06.
If I was a long range F Class or benchrest shooter. The 7mm PRC would be the best. This makes the PRC mors specialized . In all honesty I'm better served by my 06 because of versatility, barrel life, economics to shoot and handload. Left the magical 7mms years ago.
Thanks for watching and the superb comment!
🤠 You pretty much came to the "same conclusion" that I did! It is hard to beat the "good old 30-06" (unless it's a 270 Winchester 😜)! Excellent barrel life means you can pass that gun down to your grandchildren; a versatile and moderate recoiling rifle that can kill anything in North America; and cheap to shoot, with plenty of bullet options and no feeding issues! The 30-06 is the "ultimate definition" of the "KISS Rule"! 🤭
@@ronlowney4700 I have nothing but admiration for the 270. When Elmer Kieth said the 270 was good for a varmint cartridge he ment it as an insult to Jack O'Connor. The 270 is a fantastic long range varmint cartridge. As a hunting cartridge, I find the 270 to be most accurate. I sighted in many 270 hunting rifles before deer season over the years. You would think the 308 would be the most accurate but that ist not what I witnessed over the years sighting in rifles.
Got some random 7 stw shells that I have no idea where they came from
Having owned a 7mm Weatherby and looking at todays cartridge choices, I'd go 7mm SAUM for a magnum and 284 for a non magnum.
These comparisons are great but recoil is a thing and having had a fractured collar bone in the past, the less recoil the better
Those are fine choices
Where is the 7x64 / 7x65R?
I don’t know much about the 7x64. It’s not one that I’ve looked into much here in America
@@hopefulballistics It is the most common 7mm cartridge in Europe and widely used in Africa especially South Africa. It predates most of the cartridges you talked about except the 7x57. It was designed by Wilhelm Brenneke and commercially introduced in 1927 for use in the Mauser action.
When he designed it in 1917, he thought about use by snipers in the military, but it never made it there.
It has usually a 1 in 8.66 twist rate and handles heavy bullets.
@@mjoelnir1899 that’s awesome, thanks!
28 Nosler over 7mm RUM? The 28 Nosler is more modern but it's based on the RUM case. 28 Nosler is a slightly weaker 7mm RUM. How is the 28 Nosler more modern? Why would this matter? Have you shot both?
Correct me if I’m wrong. The 28 Nosler has a faster twist rate for heavier bullets. It’s just a matter of opinion. I feel the 28 nosler is a more efficient and not as overbore in a standard action making it a better design. Everyone’s opinion will vary based on intended application
.284 win vs 7mm pic is apples to oranges. They were designed for to complete different applications. When the .284 came out we didn’t have the style of high BC bullets we have now. The PRC was designed around the high BC bullets.
Many of the matchups will be apples to oranges, but I’m doing my best to pick a winner. Good comment, thanks!
May guess is 280 ai.?..gives you everything you need. My personal favorite and my hunting cartridge is 7mm08
Can’t go wrong with either of those cartridges!
I wish they produced more factory offerings in 7-08 like match grade stuff
It hard to believe so many people who believe like us . Keep it coming God bless
Thanks!
7mm08AI hand loaded with 162gr out to the lands
Viewers would like to see the cartridges side by side if you can hold them in your hand so we can see the whole case and the rim I would like to see a 280 add 284 and 7 mm 08 they all are trying to be a 28 Nosler
I appreciate the comment. I would say none of them are trying to be the 28 Nosler. There all different sizes and have different purposes.
Do a bracket tournament for 30 cal rounds
I did. 5 part series. Search my channel for best 30 caliber cartridge.
I forgot to say, North Dakota here. There are long shots around here.
I have been able to buy 280AI brass it’s not as common as 7mm RM but you can certainly buy it.
Good deal!
7mm RUM is king but people fear short barrel life. Most big 7s also have a short barrel life, but only the RUM has been killed over it. Mine is a 700 BDL.
Have you shot much game with it?
Boo! You said this was on the design.... but picked the 7mm Rem mag because it has better ammo availability? Look at the velocities and you will have an easy answer on which cartridge is better designed. Oh no.... watching to the end. The 7mm PRC? Okay my serious answer is I have to go with what the PRS and F Class shooters choose. So I think it's a tie between the 284 Win and the 7SAUM.
I used availability to break the tie. They seem very similar to me. I’ll look again to see if I missed something on the velocities
The new trend in F class is taking a 6.5PRC and necking it up to 7 and improving the shoulder to 40° I'm sorry RW but Hornady is taking over!
@@kylemartin832 Too bad I can't put memes in TH-cam comments... "insert the woke lady yelling no meme"
@@ReloadingWeatherby 😂🤣😅 you know I love ya and been there since the fireside chats
The saum does fit a short action just fine. There is such things as a WSM cut. Secondly. 73.6 gn vs PRC 77 grains. The 7 saum is way more efficient and the long neck is just awesome. But in all honesty the 7 rem mag blows both of them away.
68 years old recoil shouldent bother any one 4590 actuly recoils
280AI
My personal favorite on the list
Calibers from 6.5 to 35 based on the 30-06 case is best. Calibers from 22 to 6.5 bast on 308 case is 2nd best. Calibers from 30 cal. to 45 cal. based on magnum belted case is possibly 3rd best even though I hate belted cases. I like to head space off at the shoulder of a bottle neck case. I prefer a 404 Jeffrey case for 30 cal and up .
30-06 case capacity is best over all. The standard 280 Remington will always be the perfect ideal medium game cartridge. The Ackley version of the 280 is a waste of time and trouble. I hate fire forming cases for a different shoulder angle for minimal gains. The only reason the 280 Ackley shows higher velocity than the standard 280 is becase the standard 280 is loaded to lower pressures for Remington pumps and automatics.
All these modern cartridges are of good design but their extra cost and lack of commonality makes them not for me. The same reason I do not own a 280 Remington that I think is the idea cartridges.
30-06, 270, and 7mm-08 . Is what I'm left with for medium game.
7mm-08 is King. I could even make 7mm-08 cases from the more common 308.
7mm-08 !!!!!!
I appreciate the comment, well said.
7-08 or 284?
Custom rifle-284, factory rifle-7mm-08
Generaly you have right. But if you use factory ammo situation is a little different. Like 7 prc vs 280 AI. = in factory ammo if you shooting long range target 7 prc wins. But if you are hunter IMHO 280Ai BC so much better bullet selection on factory ammo. Ofc if yourmade own ammo factory load is not relaven -But in this situation maybe 284 win is good too. Etc. Factory vs handmade ammo IMHO is different category.
That’s a good point, thanks!
7x64
You went wrong by not including the perfect 7mm the 7mm Dakota!! 😢
I’m not familiar with the Dakota, I’ll look it up
7X51 Remington ( better name for 7mm08 )
7PRC not tested yet.
7x64 brenneke
Myself or others may want to hear about this 284 Winchester apparently the case is used for lots of wild cats
I have a video on the 284.
Here is a hint: Don't talk about yourself or make excuses for why you have not made a recent video. I don't mean any disrespect, only trying to help.
My pleasure providing constructive criticism
Say it like a true 'Euro-Terminator'...Sevin-Mily-Meater..!!!
&
(scanning with a red laser eye) "Where is John Connor?"
Lol, that hilarious
7mm cartridges are unnecessary. 300 win mag is the only rifle cartridge needed.
Agree to disagree