Yes. This is consistent with the story I heard as well. Thor was so butthurt that Bonzo could not only wield Mjolnir, but play legendary drums with it, that he started a false narrative on the internet about some chick named Headley Grainger and her "natural acoustic properties."
It was actually recorded in the Grand Canyon. The drums were constructed of titanium from a Russian satellite that’d failed to burn up on reentry. The microphones were suspended from hot air balloons. The old pieces of the drum kit are still down there somewhere.
OMG, get out of here! Do you know approximately where in the grand canyon? I want to start digging to find the drum pieces and I thought it was carbon, fiber, not titanium, are you sure about that?
A lot of people here are talking about hearing this track as a teenager in the 70’s. I heard it as a teenager in 2018 for the first time and was in immediate awe of the drums and the harmonica. The slide played guitar is also fantastic and jpj’s bass work is bar none. All these decades later teenagers are still shook by this track
I second that. I heard it in 2018 too and it launched me into a whole new and beautiful world of classic rock and then consequently all types of rock and metal.
We probably wouldn't be if Bonham were still around to ask about it. The figurative rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic only become an interesting activity because, sadly he's not around.
When the Levi Breaks is a song written by Memphis Minnie in the 1800’s. The song is being discussed because it is actually good. Good music should never die.
@@DG-sf9ei All of the bass drum hits (and the snare) have the echo. Try listening again. Also, in the fantasy world that you live in: if that 2nd bass drum hit was actually dry (it's not), how would that be explained with natural delay via microphones?
Thank you for your patience and research, Beato. I used to work at a living history museum, and one of the biggest problems with "well known history" is that it is often folklore that has been accepted as history. I think it happens because, if someone doesn't know enough to question what they hear, they never do question it.
The first song I ever heard of Led Zeppelin was ....Levee It was cold out sitting in the car parked on the edge of a canal Windows fogged raining hard heater barely working I was transfixed and mesmerized by the magic of the song Decades later each time I hear it's like the first time.... I was fortunate enough to see Led Zeppelin 3 times "Oh what a lucky man I was" Thank you Robert Jimmy John & Bonzo....we meet again YES?
Andy Johns is still one of the most respected audio engineers in rock history. He started by working with Eddie Kramer recording Jimi Hendrix. Then he became engineer and mixer for the Blind Faith debut. Then Ten Years After, Humble Pie, Free, Jethro Tull, Mott the Hoople, Jack Bruce, Renaissance, Traffic, Stephen Stills, Eric Clapton, Rod Stewart, Joni Mitchell, and the Rolling Stones (Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main Street, Goats Head Soup, & It's Only Rock and Roll) and Led Zeppelin ( II, III, IV/Zoso, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti, & Coda) RIP
So what you’re saying is, you value his professional opinion based upon his résumé? Correct? If I was a drummer, I would follow that guy into hell.! Lol 😂
Great job Rick, picking apart a great song to highlight some great sounds and voices by all! I was hoping you would have played the complete song at the end though... I enjoy your channel, envy your career and man it would be cool to meet and hang w/you and some of the artists on both sides of the console. Thanks for doing what you do, man...
Zeppelin’s finest track. From the iconic opening of Bonham on drums to the bluesy harmonica complete with reverse echo, and the droning of Jimmy’s guitar it resonates with all the power of the Delta Blues, only on steroids.
"The most known drum sound in rock history" - And not just rock, the number of times it has been sampled is a testament to the beauty of its sound. And, of course, to Bonzo.
I love Bonham, and they’re very different drummers (to understate the matter) but Bill Bruford is my favorite rock drummer (not being a musician, I don’t know how he rates amongst actual drummers).
And Jaimoe of the Allman Brothers doesn’t get the kudos he deserves (need some analysis videos of Duane-era Allman Brothers songs, though I appreciate post-Duane also, but they were a different band without him).
Bill Bruford if one of the best Progressive drummers ever, his style is closer to Jazz than straight rock, but the dude is amazing. If you like him, you should pay attention to Danny Carey from Tool, Neil Peart, Mike Prtnoy from Dream Theater, and Bill Cobham from Mahavishnu Orchestra
Thank you, will do so. Billy Cobham and MO I have heard some of, but I didn’t especially focus on the drums at the time, being enamored of McLaughlin’s guitar while watching. Of course I know of Neil Peart. I love watching these analysis videos because it gives me just a little idea of what to look for, what there is to appreciate that I wouldn’t otherwise know is noteworthy (though I try to remember that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, lol).
Practically anyone who (also) does virtual orchestral production knows a good rule of thumb is that sound travels *about* 1 foot per millisecond (needed for early reflections, sound source distance, etc). Which means at 250 milliseconds of delay you'd need a LOT more than a stairwell in a manor to create that. The mics were clearly used for ambiance and a huge "room" sound, NOT the delay. Great stuff Rick, love the channel!
Another way to debunk the story: Time the "echo", take the speed of sound at that altitude, and calculate the distance required. Headley Grange isn't big enough. Not even close. It's a house, not the Superdome.
This all day. The space needed for that sound would need to be big. Like, parking garage big but even then it would be muddy. Snare gets tinny, bass gets too much midrange etc. The sound waves get stretched and compressed as they travel. The Doppler effect. You see this in passing train horns.
@@DG-sf9ei ok so Rick’s wrong. And the engineer on the record is wrong. And physics is wrong. But you sir- clearly you are right. 🙄 The answer to your question (and I’m not a drummer so it should be easy for me right?) is one word- MULTITRACK. Assuming the third measure bass note is recorded clean and I’m not convinced, since I think the echo might be buried in the subsequent double kick on the upbeat (need to run it through a wav editor to check the timing) the most likely and obvious answer is that they recorded a clean channel using just the 160s and then an echo channel separately. Then just mix as you need.
A classic of John going off on his drum tec guy for his high hat sounding bad is on the st Valentine's day massacre live performance much to the dismay of Robert Plant.....Lol
From Andy Johns interview: "I remember playing it back in the Stones' mobile truck and thinking, 'Bonzo's gotta f**king like this!' I had never heard anything like it and the drum sound was quite spectacular. I said: 'Bonzo, come and listen to this, dear chap.' And he came in and said, 'Oh yeah, that's more f**king like it!' And everyone was very happy." [Yes. Yes we were.]
Mr. Beato, "Before you go and repeat things you hear, the information is actually already out there if you want to know...." This statement is so applicable in so many venues. I really like your channel and truly enjoy the music insider views and analysis. Thanks for doing this.
It was a rare moment when Zeppelin innovation actually wasn't a rip-off from another band. Also - little know fact: Bonham recorded the drums for Stairway while sitting on a levee.
Also, just the fact that the echo is about 225 ms would mean if it was a natural time delay in a room the mics would have to be about 250 feet from the source.
Maybe it was a cave they recorded it in, where the Unicorn lived...only joking but sound travels at 343 metres a second (in dry air at 20 degrees C) so no idea what kinda space would create an echo that was exactly the right tempo, thank goodness for the invention of echo boxes!
Yeah, even if we're looking at an echo of sound going out and back, you're still talking a 120 feet high ceiling to get that echo. You might get that in St Paul's Cathedral, but not in Headley Grange! I'll admit that I was one who took this myth at face value and believed it, but actually doing the maths and looking at it objectively, it makes no sense that the echo came from the room. The *reverb* came from the room and it's a huge part of that sound, but it still needed that Echorec to get that sound.
Ive never heard these drum tracks in isolation before...it's really quite stunning for me. Ive never really appreciated Bonham's drums like I am now that Ive heard this. He really was ahead of his time.
get bent- ANDY JOHNS was the engineer. It's not what Beato says but what Andy says. Call us sheep if you want, I will trust Andy and Rick over a no name keyboard warrior any day@@DG-sf9ei
As a DJ on a classic rock station in the 1990's, I once got a request phone call from a guy who wanted to hear this particular great tune, as it was the perfect song to "cook spaghetti to".......
I think what the stairwell gave to the sound is a space. So it adds a lot to the overall sound and opens it up. I think since then a lot of musicians have been recording drums in all sorts of places. One thing missing from some of the modern day drummers is what RObert Plant said about Bonzo's playing. He could adjust the volume when hitting any of the batter heads or cymbals according to how they wanted it recorded. He had his own built in volume meter. That requires a lot of sensitivity and touch in playing. Everyone thinks he is this massively powerful over the top drummer ...which he was capable of doing ...but he was also much more than that. Groove ..feel ...imagination ....a lot of qualities of a jazz and funk drummer in there too.
@@markrymanowski719 I was just watching a TH-cam video about an L.A. Music Studio..forget the name now but Metallica came in to record and had them move the ceiling up about 20 feet or something like that. Funny!!! They were Zep fans too!!! Also I read for the song Bullet The Blue Sky on the Joshua Tree they had Larry Mullen set up in a big warehouse I think playing through the P.A. system to get that big drum sound. Amazing the creativity of some of the people recording. I love hearing about all these techniques. Page had quite a few tricks up his sleeve apparently along with his recording engineers. Pink Floyd and the Beatles were the same way.
I think Bill Ward deserves a mention too, he also had a lot of jazz and funk in his playing, in both cases it really fits the rest of the sound. Bill Ward is really groovy for a "heavy metal" drummer. But I'm a guitar player so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Although to me Black Sabbath always seemed more heavy jazz than heavy rock. Or both mixed. Especially if you turn the gain down a lot of riffs and solos are super jazzy, with a little blues mixed in so the swinging drums really contribute, which I used to not hear that much. But these days I try to focus on the drums more and I'd love to get a cheap electric set to.mess around and mainly improve my time keeping, always a huge weak point as a lead guitarist, which always made my rythm guitar suck. So now I'm focusing on that and it has already improved my lead playing a lot by paying more attention to the rythm rather than just noodling away and doing my own thing which is why I'm a sucky lead guitarist as well... but working on it after 18 years ignoring the problem.
@@221b-l3t There are a number of really good guitarists who play the drums or who started out on them then switched. Eddie Van Halen comes to mind. Also Jack White is a drummer. A good YOutube video of him playing with John Paul Jones I believe and Sea Sick Steve. Paul McCartney can play. Stewart Copeland another one. I think it helps you develop a good sense of time and rhythm and also teaches you about space and listening to the other musicians in the band. If you want a feel of jazz in drumming Mitch Mitchell is a good one to listen to. Ian Paice on the Malice In Wonderland album has a lot of funk. I think you are right about Bill Ward. I would say him and Bonham were more like swing drummers. If you look at Joe Morello and some of his solos (He was the drummer for the song Take 5 by Dave Brubeck) you can see where Bonzo got some of his chops from. Playing with his bare hands for instance!!! Oh yeah ..don't leave out Carl Palmer. He was friends with Buddy Rich...Carmine and Vinnie Appice...lots and lots of really good "swing" drummers out there. The Heavy Metal drumming is too on the nose for me and gets boring.
I have spent my whole life in music, writing, recording, giging....my father was a pioneer in the radio/dj world of the 60s 70s and 80s, i just wanted to say rick,its a great channel and I appreciate you passing along knowledge and truth about music. Big fan ......thank u, Dave C.
Before saying something against what you said, people should make a research to validate their opinion. You're not a random guy, you're a teacher who's got a great career, who's provided hundreds of high-level contents and who has shown, in more than one occasion, the value of his knowledge. Keep on rocking, Rick!
Thanks for setting the record straight. I feel this is one of the greatest drum tracks on all time. The huge sound he gets is just amazing! Credit to Andy Johns for thinking of the echo unit and the mic placements.
It’s absolutely brilliant and beautiful and it’s simplicity isn’t it? We fast forward at the clock. 50 years later and people just aren’t creative anymore. Kind of sad isn’t it?
@@abhishekharwani1578 The comment by itself, no. However the comment led to reactions, that then led me to my reaction. So… I reluctantly agree with you, but I have to because I do agree and because it’s true
I don't get why people stop thinking when they hear of these wild claims. The speed of sound is 343 m/s which means that a delay of 225 ms needs the sound source to be 77,4 m away from the mic. That's a tall stairway. Almost halfway to heaven probably.
They (engineers) said the echo was created with a machine. Which means they used the stairway acoustics for the original sound quality. Anything Page claims to the contrary can be written off as slight-of-hand.
343 m/s is the speed of sound in dry air. Sound travels slower in humid air. But we don't need to check historical weather data. We already know that the air was heavy with unicorn tears.
Adriana C Too bad he doesn't have a Patreon ;) Seriously though, I will join the Beato Club some day but as a teenager money isn't exactly in huge amounts lol
This!! This is why Rick Beato is my go to on all things music. His breaking down of all things music is on point and CORRECT. We're still debating this song how many years later? Jesus im old. Keep up the outstanding work Rick.
Everything you need to know to debunk the "natural echo" myth is taught in high school. At STP (standard temperature and pressure), the speed of sound is 1,125 feet per second. In 225 milliseconds, that's 253 feet, the round-trip distance needed to create the delay. That's 126.6 feet one-way. So there would have to be a smooth hard reflecting surface 126 feet away from the mic to create the basic delay. But wait - there's more. Due to the inverse-square property of wave propagation from a point source, the reflected energy off of a flat surface would be so faint that nothing on earth would be able to record it distinctly; the reflected sound would be over 200 dB below the audio level of incident sound. So that smooth hard surface 126 feet away would have to be a circular section to collect as much of the incident wave as possible and reflect it back to a relatively small area around the mic. For fans of American football, that's a curved smooth hard wall over 40 yards from the kit and mics. Inside a house. If this all happened in a stairway, it would have to be over 12 stories high. Ummm ... no.
I just nutshelled the same thing before I saw your post. What I realized just after I posted, however, is that many (most?) listeners probably aren't hearing the delay. They're probably thinking that every sound they're hearing was actually played by Bonham, and they don't realize that they're hearing sounds that have been repeated in time with the music by a machine
But Bonzo was really in the basement of Westminster Abbey, and the microphone was in the highest steeple. Add in the acoustics of a midieval cathedral, and you have the echo.
@@williama.walker2287 I've been in a lot of cathedrals, and they are shaped so there are no single echoes. The walls are irregular so the reverb is continuous. Our church here is much smaller but it has parallel walls and the delay time is ridiculously high. Very hard getting intelligibility out of speech, but Gregorian chant sounds great.
Correction Rick. It's a little known fact, but Bonham's drums on When The Levee Breaks were actually recorded on the Moon with the mics set up in the fourth and fifth dimensions to create that famous sound. At least that's what my buddy's stoner cousin's uncle's cat said.
Yes. This is consistent with the story I heard as well. Gumby was there setting up the mics, and Pokey took him aside and said, "Hey Gumby, you toss off to the pub while Bonzo and me make some rock history." He did it all with claymation horseshoes, and then Gumby's dad came and rescued them from the Blockheads with his hook and ladder fire truck.
my father introduced Led Zeppelin to me in 2005 when i was a teenager...i was in to drums before because of John Bonham,..he is the reason i listened to Zeppelin,..now i play a guitar and still he is one of my fav. musician of all time..i dont know why but he just got those kinda aura...a magician performing his marvelous tricks or an amazing artist painting the perfect sky....Kashmir was always my fav. from their songs
But I heard from a guy who's cousin said he met a dude who was the brother of the guy who was there when they recorded it. That's not valid information?
Ikr? Four Sticks was titled that supposedly b/c Bonzo kept fucking up the song,and eventually got so mad that he grabbed up two sets of sticks and just KILLED the song. Amazing.
Get a big 24 " bass drum that's not too deep and muffled slightly and anyone can get this sound. Easy What's hard to get is Bonham's feel....not so easy
The best place I ever heard this song was in a large square field that was surrounded by tall trees. The field was about 400 feet square. We were having a party with a fire near one corner and someone drove to the opposite corner an blasted When the Levee Breaks on their car system. This was back in the early 70s. The sound had an added punch with what seemed like harmonic echo to it. Okay, my head phones were actually better. But that field gave the echoing drums a new level of interest. We had a girl that came out there who was pretty good on a harmonic. She played from that corner one night and it was amazing! So the field definitely had it's magic to add.
I have no idea how or why this will ever be relevant in my life, but DAMN i love listening to the detail that goes into making incredible music. Thank you!
What your experiment showed me Rick, was that between Jimmy and Andy Johns, they must have dialled back the Binson in the mix so that it's quite subtle, because it's more apparent on the bass drum but not quite so emphatic on the snare. That's what makes it so hard to figure out and that is why it is such a great sound.
@@DG-sf9ei could be that kick drums project sounds forward instead of all around, the sound would have naturally hit the walls instead of rising upwards to the stair mounted mics, also the fact that kicks are naturally much heavier and more pronounced making the echo blend more with the sound
@@DG-sf9ei Jesus, YOU ARE WRONG! Were you there? Hell, who knows if you can even play drums. But if you can, so what? Andy Johns was there, and anything he says trumps anything you cuold ever possibly think of. Grow up!
I guess what Page was emphasising was the natural reverb of the Headley Grange lounge/staircase, but people have misinterpreted it as referring to delay/echo.
Tom Adams. You're saying here what I was thinking. If that stairwell did not have some good acoustic response to begin with, why would they decide to set up the drums there to record them to begin with? Especially a band like Zeppelin with gold albums and a recording budget etc. So the myth is more appealing that it was the natural echo in the staircase of a big old manor, instead of that was the starting point and then electronics were used.
I’m not sure how many decades ago I heard this song, but it was quite evident that the drums we’re delayed. Thank you for this video (I’m just shaking my head now)!
Nice one RB. I'm a drummer. Totally agree that it's always sounded like an echo applied to mix. Yet I've heard many people delve into stairwell stories to explain this sound. Two things. One, people tend to conflate reverb and echo, and to be fair, in the natural world these phenomena are both created by the same thing; the interaction of sound waves with ambient object. But... I haven't heard a real echo that could retain so much of the original sound. The stairwell/lobby/big-space is giving the reverb and the delay is applied by a box that records and plays back the sound (which naturally was analogue at that time). And Two, there IS a double in the groove. I think if it where played without a double it would more clearly be an applied-echo sound to an untrained ear. There's something about the sound of a triple, with it's hit>mix>echo against other hit>echo ('fake' doubles) that helps play around with what you perceive as an echo (and no-doubt helps it sound awesome).
As a drummer and sound engineer I totally concur that there is ambient mics with compression and the slap echo from a device. The first kick drum hit is a double. The version Rick did nailed the simple echo but missed the first kick drum being a double.
Make it stop! Hahaha.... Numbnuts... I appreciate the PSA, but one response would have been enough. He never said it's where the echo came from.... Geez
I’m a self employed pest control technician. I have this same problem happen to me all the time where someone knows more about bugs than I do....I simply reply “If you know so much, why did you call me?” I love your videos Rick! They’ve inspired me to work harder to be a better musician. Thank you for all this great content!!
@@MrMOGHammer it’s known as Entomology not Biology. And no they still wouldn’t know as much I do. Class room knowledge isn’t the same as real world experience.
Hello Rick. I'm a drummer in Austin. Pro drummer and engineer for 53 years. Worked with Andy Johns in 1988. Hung with him for 6 weeks. Your right About the echo. The fact that people can't hear the difference says a lot. I was asking him about recording Zeppelin,stones, jethro tull. Also got to work with Daniel lanois. Thanks Rick. Biggest ears on TH-cam.
This is exactly the truth. Great video explanation. I was good friends with Andy and worked with him in the studio a few times over the years .He literally said this word for word to me as well. We sat down many times and he shared all the stories of what went on, on so many levels. He shared exactly what happened recording that track, where, why and how. Funny how many stories have manifested. Trust the engineer! :)
I heard that when Don McLean took his Chevy to the levee and found out it was dry, he bashed it with a pair of nunchucks. Jimmy Page, who just happened by, recorded it all on his walkman.
Rick don't give any thought to the haters out there. I have just recently discovered your channel and I must say that I am thoroughly impressed with your knowledge of rock music and even more impresses with you musical talent. You have really opened my eyes and given me a greater appreciation for the music that I grew up with. Keep it up Bro!
So basicly youre like.....FUCK LED ZEPLIN AND THEIR SHITY MUSIC STYLE..AND BONZO...SHHHEESH...I ..DO IT BETTER.WHEN ....WE...PLAY WE PLAY THE ECHO.......who are you...whos your band...what classic timeless piece that the whole planet knows is your music?..or do you just do covers and your huge ass ego thinks your band is somehow.....better....than zeplin?..what countries have you traveled to and sold out a colosseum?.....SIT THE FUCK DOWN TINY LITTL BOY....LEARN WHAT BEING .....HUMBLE....IS ALL ABOUT...GROW UP A LITTLE TINY BIT.....then you will realize that.......YOUR BAND...... Needs a lot lot lot more practice to even be able to tighten the skins on bonzos drum kit let alone ......PLAY LIKE THE GOD HE IS......
THIS video. So much being discussed, from recording to misinformation. I remember when Jimmy clapped on the documentary, and I was thinking, "Nope, I can't hear an echo." And now I can add an effect to my drum kit and I don't need to buy a castle!
Wow, that is an obvious lie. What he did say is "Anything unicorn related is really how we got that drum effect of course after watching a few youtube tutorials.". Get it right sir!
Spot on. Great to hear the actual truth about this iconic track. Another interesting thing about this track is the audio tape of the band (not the vocals) was slowed very slightly to give the music that "sludgy" sound. You can really notice this on the swell and very long decay of John's cymbals. Absolutely brilliant. This is another reason why they rarely played the song live.
Telephone. One person comes up with a sentence or message and whispers it to the person next to them. Children continue to pass the message between each other until it reaches the end of the class or circle. Usually, the message has been distorted after passing through so many people. Total vindication Beato, well done!
This is great! Thanks Rick. And more to your point, at 225 ms the sound would need to travel a total of about 280 feet for a natural echo. The room didn’t quite seem 14 stories.
Page says echo when he claps, but he clearly means reverb. Hence the confusion. You can't here a distinct second attack when he claps. He just means the natural reverb contributed to the richness if the sound.
How do you argue with someone that does recordings for a living? For longer than some have been alive possibly? But ultimately, Rick you nailed it. Very respectful way to bring the correct information to the forefront of fellow Zeppelin fans.
Jimmy told a mate of mine that Rick hung the mics off of the Severn Bridge, which is why the sound of the drums is a bit Welsh..... and it was a hell of job getting leads that long.
Spot on and correct. The same thing happens in discussions on Kashmir. The Binson was used on the kick of that track, as well, to achieve the kick echo or second hit on the kick. An interesting note on Levee is that the drums Bonham was using for the Grange sessions were actually in another part of the house, but Ludwig had sent Bonham a new kit and Mick Hinton set up that kit in the lobby and when Bonham sat at the kit, the sound was there. Johns immediately set up the Beyer mics and the rest is history.
When the Levee Breaks is true genius. My favorite part is the outro. Jonezy and Bonham are filling ever bar with pure magic. Those years were off the charts and continue to sound fresh off the presses.
I just think it’s godly. Almost to put four of those musicians together and how much incredible music they recorded. To hell with the Rolling Stones. They have nothing on Led Zeppelin. They are true musicians
I admit: in my comment under the other video I was referring to things jimmy saied in „it might get loud“ and on other occasions. With this and, like you say in this video, stuff I read on the internet as only sources ... I really never doubted what seemed to be logical to me. I never heard or read the comments from the sound engineer you showed in this video. But I’m not to stubborn to say: I was wrong! Thx for this great video and information and thx for an reminder in the subject of „check your facts!“ :)
There's nothing like a little humility, so I'm surprised this comment has been massively upvoted. That said, prepare to be persuaded of yet another version of events.
sorry for all the sanctimonious comments of people celebrating your confession - there is something very worrying in fact about the perhaps sycophantic nature of some of the defenders on a person bullying those who might think differently rather than standing up to it and saying perhaps i am wrong but in your haste to judge me wrong you negated the importance of what i felt was important. I go back... try it yourself - download audacity - record a clap in a dry room, then apply delay, now go into a bathroom or a room with sound reflection surfaces like a bathroom and record a clap and then apply that to delay - there will be a tonal difference. Hence no one was right... the hallwayers who insisted there was no echo machine or the binson echo drones who negate the relevance of it being recorded in the hallway, This was a silly rush to judgement and everyone laid out their agenda either open to el comando or staying open minded and realising Jimmy likes to emphasise the natural echo in the hall, so did the rest of the band, in fact they were all thinking it was a special place to capture the drums. otherwise why the hell do they have the drums based in the hallway. I trust my own experiments yes echo was used, but so was the natural reverb/echo of the hallway.
I have ALWAYS said: There’s a reason why Stairway ends Side 1 but Levee ends the entire album (or Side 2, if you prefer). And Mr. Bonham’s drumming (on both) is a BIG part of that.
Your enthusiasm for music, specifically rock music, is awesome. Great demonstration of that drum effect. How great would it be to hang out and just talk about music!! Thank you.
There's a version without the echo effect. Look up "Led Zeppelin Studio Magik". It's a bootleg of outtakes and rough mixes. "Take 2" of When The Levee breaks doesn't have the echo effect on the drums yet, or at the very least it's a more subtle effect. It's also on YT if you look up "(title) Alternate Version Outtake" THAT is what the drums really sounded like in the stairwell.
One thing I noticed about the track is that Bonzo has perfect timing. Inhuman machine like timing. Using Virtual DJ (software), you can put a loop anywhere in the beat, even mid bar or two notes in, and it will be a perfect seamless loop. Works for any Zeppelin song. Then wheneverthe drums pause, the rest of the band slips time by a fraction of a beat.
I watched a video explaining...how..they 'Zep'..purposely went OUT of time of a few songs. Such as Black Dog. The sound was revolutionary, in such as its incredibly difficult to make a song, out of time, AND make it sound right.
Here's something to consider - the speed of sound in air is about 1125 ft per second. To get an echo at 225 ms, the sound would have to reflect off of a surface that is 126 feet away. That's about 12 stories in height. I doubt that the entry stairwell in Headley Grange is that tall!
there would certainly be great reverb in that room, but nothing like the echo heard on the track. Natural clean echo is pretty rare and almost impossible to capture alongside the source on directional mics due to the large dynamic differences in volume and the opposing directions.
LOL, well, you just unveiled and laid out the utter idiocy of social media and its partakers. Congrats! “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” - Bertrand Russell
For YEARS I've always wondered how Bonzo got that echo sound. I thought they were dragging ghost notes. I was wrong. Very informative. Thanks Rick, you da man.
No! The unicorn's horn was miked, and the delay resulted from the trampoline he was bouncing on. Two unicorns were used, one named Hedley and one Grange, and the former was placed on the trampoline after being gingered by John Paul Jones. These were the same two unicorns that won the Kentucky Derby, doing so _twice,_ and were coveted so much only Led Zeppelin could afford them.
@@DG-sf9ei I can definitelly hear the echo on each hit. Some hits are louder than others, so their repeats is more faint. Thanks to the dynamic playing from bonham
@@DG-sf9ei I am a drummer, and you need to listen again. The echo on the "next" bass drum note is under the hihat. Because it's an offbeat, the hihat is right on the beat where the echo would be, and is, if you listen carefully. Calling Rick delusional, when he's got the guy who actually recorded the thing telling us how he did it, is a bit much - and besides, how do you explain how the 2nd bass note escaped a natural echo !!
Just think I have learned something at age 68 about my favorite band from my younger days . Rick your right ,some people unintentionally say things ,before they do there leg work. But the song remains the same no matter what ,great.
For sure, people on here need to get out more, they're over thinking this way too much and being far to geeky about it.... We all know zep created musical genius, just listen and love it ffs!!!
@@keithjohnston6861 Especially JPJ, He wanted no part in the occult. Page owned the house for 22 years then sold it. it had changed hands a couple times before burning down a couple years ago.
I love all your breakdowns of songs Rick Beato (Roundabout by Yes is probably my favourite) so, please continue to do what you do as it is very informative and gives us all an insight into these well known tracks. You are also a very talented musician in your own right of course. Kind regards from Jim, a 64 year old drummer in the UK.
Sounds like a combination of the two. Distance miking and the echo machine. An absolute massive sound and iconic. I'm a guitarist but can appreciate a master musician. Bonham has no equal.
Lots of folks don't know the difference between Echo and Reverb, or worse, they don't think it matters, so even if you tried to do them the favor of telling them, they'd just roll their eyes and think you're splitting hairs … which is why so many good engineers learn to keep their mouths shut.
Echo and reverb are exactly the same. DELAY is a distinct effect, and reverb and delay may be used together in equal or varying proportions or individually. Echo (or reverb, take your pick, they're the same!) is used in this demo.
You're not listening to Andy Johns, the guy who recorded the thing - so watch the video again @4:50, the Reverb came from the stair case ( who's ambience was enhanced by "compressing the crap" out of the mics ), but the Echo came from the Binson Echorec "which is tough to find now, but it's a DELAY device" … which was the whole point of this video.
All I have to say is that I moved next door to Headley Grange a year ago. I've been into the Grange and clapped exactly like Jimmy Page does in the clip on this video. Come on, how lucky am I????? I still pinch myself regularly to check I'm not dreaming!
If you think you got problems in convincing folk of that. Feel the pity of me .... I met Robert plant at a Blue Peter bring and buy sale around 1979. It was in the village hall of Wolverly just up the road from where he lived outside Kidderminster. Please feel my pain when open up that line.
This was terrific. That song and the intro is so tremendous..followed by the harmonica. I was instantly hooked when I first heard it. I also like it sampled by the Beastie Boys in their hit song Rhyming and Stealing.
You're all wrong. Bonzo recorded the drums in Valhalla using Thor's hammer, beating on the hulls of Viking long boats.
Yes. This is consistent with the story I heard as well. Thor was so butthurt that Bonzo could not only wield Mjolnir, but play legendary drums with it, that he started a false narrative on the internet about some chick named Headley Grainger and her "natural acoustic properties."
@@audibletapehiss3764 that's actually the truth about how it was recorded and Headley Grainger was 14 at the time.
I knew it
JB was a talented drummer, however, unfortunately he was an absolute raging alcoholic. I have read that he was a MEAN DRUNK.
Sounds good to me.
You know, a Rock n' Roll Mythbusters would make for a pretty interesting series.
Josh Warren, that’s a great idea!
Good idea
Ohhh.... i second that motion👍
Sign me up.
Rick is already doing it!!!
Rick you just invited a new series! I'd watch hours of you demystifying music industry myths of all sorts!
Seconded.
Third
Motion passes!!
Fourth through whatever else it takes to make this happen
That's a great suggestion ☝️
It was actually recorded in the Grand Canyon. The drums were constructed of titanium from a Russian satellite that’d failed to burn up on reentry. The microphones were suspended from hot air balloons. The old pieces of the drum kit are still down there somewhere.
😆
At least that's what it sounds like.
LMAO
c'mon...everyone has heard this story...lol.
OMG, get out of here! Do you know approximately where in the grand canyon? I want to start digging to find the drum pieces and I thought it was carbon, fiber, not titanium, are you sure about that?
A lot of people here are talking about hearing this track as a teenager in the 70’s. I heard it as a teenager in 2018 for the first time and was in immediate awe of the drums and the harmonica. The slide played guitar is also fantastic and jpj’s bass work is bar none. All these decades later teenagers are still shook by this track
Good to know!
If I had to choose, and only if, JPJ is my favorite musician of the four stellar guys. As impressive as they all are, he is perfection.
I second that. I heard it in 2018 too and it launched me into a whole new and beautiful world of classic rock and then consequently all types of rock and metal.
@Scott Snyder indeed
i was 20 when i first heard it 2 years ago, all of led zeppelin’s work is incredible. actually picked up a bass guitar myself and it’s my new hobby
Can't help but point out how interesting it is that here we are 50 years later discussing how a drummer achieved a certain sound on a single song.
We probably wouldn't be if Bonham were still around to ask about it. The figurative rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic only become an interesting activity because, sadly he's not around.
Because nothing memorable has happened since.
Amazing isn’t it!
When the Levi Breaks is a song written by Memphis Minnie in the 1800’s. The song is being discussed because it is actually good. Good music should never die.
Yes very interesting Bonzos drums can still be heard Verberating thru those halls of Echos time passed
Nice to find a channel where the commentator knows what he's talking about.
Oh yeah, Rick Biato always nails it, has amazing knowledge about everything and an incredible musician too
There ARE miracles in the bible too. I am told.
Really? What channel is that?🤣😅
THIS....is all natural!
@@DG-sf9ei All of the bass drum hits (and the snare) have the echo. Try listening again. Also, in the fantasy world that you live in: if that 2nd bass drum hit was actually dry (it's not), how would that be explained with natural delay via microphones?
Thank you for your patience and research, Beato. I used to work at a living history museum, and one of the biggest problems with "well known history" is that it is often folklore that has been accepted as history. I think it happens because, if someone doesn't know enough to question what they hear, they never do question it.
The first song I ever heard of Led Zeppelin was ....Levee
It was cold out sitting in the car parked on the edge of a canal
Windows fogged raining hard heater barely working
I was transfixed and mesmerized by the magic of the song
Decades later each time I hear it's like the first time....
I was fortunate enough to see Led Zeppelin 3 times
"Oh what a lucky man I was"
Thank you Robert Jimmy John & Bonzo....we meet again YES?
Rick you should start Mythbusting all kinds of music industry/recording/etc. stuff! Man, I'd watch that all day long!
Yes! Start with Paul McCartney's death in 1966.
"Hi I'm Rick Beato and welcome to Musical Mythbusters!"
Jamie Hyneman and Adam Savage: "We're gonna need 66% of whatever you make from this video."
I guess the legends from Motown is less "embellished". 😁
Don't 'bust' anything! The myths are fascinating, as well!
Gotta love how committed you are to this, Rick.
Andy Johns is still one of the most respected audio engineers in rock history. He started by working with Eddie Kramer recording Jimi Hendrix. Then he became engineer and mixer for the Blind Faith debut. Then Ten Years After, Humble Pie, Free, Jethro Tull, Mott the Hoople, Jack Bruce, Renaissance, Traffic, Stephen Stills, Eric Clapton, Rod Stewart, Joni Mitchell, and the Rolling Stones (Sticky Fingers, Exile on Main Street, Goats Head Soup, & It's Only Rock and Roll) and Led Zeppelin ( II, III, IV/Zoso, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti, & Coda) RIP
So what you’re saying is, you value his professional opinion based upon his résumé? Correct? If I was a drummer, I would follow that guy into hell.! Lol 😂
So everyone went to the pub and Bonzo stayed behind. Sounds less likely than the unicorn tears
This. Is. Gold
yup
Believable to me! I figure Bonzo has his personal supply at hand wherever he is, without going to "The Boozer"...
Great job Rick, picking apart a great song to highlight some great sounds and voices by all! I was hoping you would have played the complete song at the end though... I enjoy your channel, envy your career and man it would be cool to meet and hang w/you and some of the artists on both sides of the console. Thanks for doing what you do, man...
Yeah...he didn't care much for pubs and beer drinking anyway so it wasn't hard to get him to stay behind.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is why I watch Beato...
@@DG-sf9ei Another i. savant posted almost the same words elsewhere in the responses. Maybe you could form a club
Can you imagine how Jimmy felt walking in there 50 years later. The ghosts of 4 men in there 20s still echoing throughout. What a feeling.
Those ghosts were not echoing, they were simply employing an electronic delay.
@@ericminchthe reverb of the room is still there
More than a feeling.
@@ericminch The _ghosts_ were late due to the delay .. . ..
Perfect! @@dancarter482
Zeppelin’s finest track. From the iconic opening of Bonham on drums to the bluesy harmonica complete with reverse echo, and the droning of Jimmy’s guitar it resonates with all the power of the Delta Blues, only on steroids.
"The most known drum sound in rock history" - And not just rock, the number of times it has been sampled is a testament to the beauty of its sound. And, of course, to Bonzo.
I love Bonham, and they’re very different drummers (to understate the matter) but Bill Bruford is my favorite rock drummer (not being a musician, I don’t know how he rates amongst actual drummers).
And Jaimoe of the Allman Brothers doesn’t get the kudos he deserves (need some analysis videos of Duane-era Allman Brothers songs, though I appreciate post-Duane also, but they were a different band without him).
Bill Bruford if one of the best Progressive drummers ever, his style is closer to Jazz than straight rock, but the dude is amazing. If you like him, you should pay attention to Danny Carey from Tool, Neil Peart, Mike Prtnoy from Dream Theater, and Bill Cobham from Mahavishnu Orchestra
So many I don't have time to list them. A quick google search will give you all you need to know. @Pierre Chanceuse
Thank you, will do so. Billy Cobham and MO I have heard some of, but I didn’t especially focus on the drums at the time, being enamored of McLaughlin’s guitar while watching. Of course I know of Neil Peart. I love watching these analysis videos because it gives me just a little idea of what to look for, what there is to appreciate that I wouldn’t otherwise know is noteworthy (though I try to remember that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, lol).
Mr. Beato, this is a new segment for the channel. Please do more "Music Myths Busted". 🤟🏼
And Rick should find out where all these people came up with this similar myth.
I believed it too until now.
Practically anyone who (also) does virtual orchestral production knows a good rule of thumb is that sound travels *about* 1 foot per millisecond (needed for early reflections, sound source distance, etc). Which means at 250 milliseconds of delay you'd need a LOT more than a stairwell in a manor to create that. The mics were clearly used for ambiance and a huge "room" sound, NOT the delay. Great stuff Rick, love the channel!
Another way to debunk the story: Time the "echo", take the speed of sound at that altitude, and calculate the distance required. Headley Grange isn't big enough. Not even close. It's a house, not the Superdome.
This all day. The space needed for that sound would need to be big. Like, parking garage big but even then it would be muddy. Snare gets tinny, bass gets too much midrange etc. The sound waves get stretched and compressed as they travel. The Doppler effect. You see this in passing train horns.
And of course the tape was slowed downn. No one seems to realize this
FOR SCIENCE!!!!!
Droppin science like Galileo dropped the orange.
@@DG-sf9ei ok so Rick’s wrong. And the engineer on the record is wrong. And physics is wrong. But you sir- clearly you are right. 🙄
The answer to your question (and I’m not a drummer so it should be easy for me right?) is one word- MULTITRACK. Assuming the third measure bass note is recorded clean and I’m not convinced, since I think the echo might be buried in the subsequent double kick on the upbeat (need to run it through a wav editor to check the timing) the most likely and obvious answer is that they recorded a clean channel using just the 160s and then an echo channel separately. Then just mix as you need.
When the Levee Breaks is the first time bonzo didn't complain about the drum sound😂😂😂😂
'Make everything louder than everything else'
-Ian Gillan
(but it applies)
A classic of John going off on his drum tec guy for his high hat sounding bad is on the st Valentine's day massacre live performance much to the dismay of Robert Plant.....Lol
From Andy Johns interview: "I remember playing it back in the Stones' mobile truck and thinking, 'Bonzo's gotta f**king like this!' I had never heard anything like it and the drum sound was quite spectacular. I said: 'Bonzo, come and listen to this, dear chap.' And he came in and said, 'Oh yeah, that's more f**king like it!' And everyone was very happy." [Yes. Yes we were.]
Thank You. More Led Zeppelin Please!!!
And on this episode of MythBusters...
BD excellent
Excellent²
It's 2022 and we're still studying John 'Bonzo' Bonham. That says A LOT about his GREATNESS. Long live Led Zeppelin!!
Mr. Beato,
"Before you go and repeat things you hear, the information is actually already out there if you want to know...." This statement is so applicable in so many venues. I really like your channel and truly enjoy the music insider views and analysis. Thanks for doing this.
Definitely right!
The Earth is flat, bro.
This is what you call a “mic drop” moment by Rick. :) Great stuff as usual.
Good Comment Man no THE FUCK IT ISNT😂
Look at this graph
It was a rare moment when Zeppelin innovation actually wasn't a rip-off from another band. Also - little know fact: Bonham recorded the drums for Stairway while sitting on a levee.
Only Nickelback has "mic drop" moments.
Better be a cheap mic. Those mics used for the recording are so expensive lol
Also, just the fact that the echo is about 225 ms would mean if it was a natural time delay in a room the mics would have to be about 250 feet from the source.
exactly what i was thinking. PHYSICS!
I was just thinking that as well, thanks for pointing it out.
Maybe it was a cave they recorded it in, where the Unicorn lived...only joking but sound travels at 343 metres a second (in dry air at 20 degrees C) so no idea what kinda space would create an echo that was exactly the right tempo, thank goodness for the invention of echo boxes!
Yeah, even if we're looking at an echo of sound going out and back, you're still talking a 120 feet high ceiling to get that echo. You might get that in St Paul's Cathedral, but not in Headley Grange! I'll admit that I was one who took this myth at face value and believed it, but actually doing the maths and looking at it objectively, it makes no sense that the echo came from the room. The *reverb* came from the room and it's a huge part of that sound, but it still needed that Echorec to get that sound.
I always thought about this, the volume would have been so low that even bumping it up wouldn't help.
Ive never heard these drum tracks in isolation before...it's really quite stunning for me. Ive never really appreciated Bonham's drums like I am now that Ive heard this. He really was ahead of his time.
Andy Johns was
get bent- ANDY JOHNS was the engineer. It's not what Beato says but what Andy says. Call us sheep if you want, I will trust Andy and Rick over a no name keyboard warrior any day@@DG-sf9ei
As a DJ on a classic rock station in the 1990's, I once got a request phone call from a guy who wanted to hear this particular great tune, as it was the perfect song to "cook spaghetti to".......
I hope you played it for him.
he wasn't wrong that song is about the perfect length to cook spaghetti
It depends on the type of pasta you're cooking. Fresh angel hair will be mush. Take it out when the vocals start, or just use "Her Majesty"
And to hit the bong to, apparently.
7 minutes 10 seconds? Standard Spaghetti would still be a bit crisp if it was a dried pasta. Fresh made pasta... ya, 7 minutes would do it.
I think what the stairwell gave to the sound is a space. So it adds a lot to the overall sound and opens it up. I think since then a lot of musicians have been recording drums in all sorts of places. One thing missing from some of the modern day drummers is what RObert Plant said about Bonzo's playing. He could adjust the volume when hitting any of the batter heads or cymbals according to how they wanted it recorded. He had his own built in volume meter. That requires a lot of sensitivity and touch in playing. Everyone thinks he is this massively powerful over the top drummer ...which he was capable of doing ...but he was also much more than that. Groove ..feel ...imagination ....a lot of qualities of a jazz and funk drummer in there too.
Simon and Garfunkel used this technique on 'The Boxer'. Li Lah Li.
They banged the drum in a lift shaft.
@@markrymanowski719 I was just watching a TH-cam video about an L.A. Music Studio..forget the name now but Metallica came in to record and had them move the ceiling up about 20 feet or something like that. Funny!!! They were Zep fans too!!! Also I read for the song Bullet The Blue Sky on the Joshua Tree they had Larry Mullen set up in a big warehouse I think playing through the P.A. system to get that big drum sound. Amazing the creativity of some of the people recording. I love hearing about all these techniques. Page had quite a few tricks up his sleeve apparently along with his recording engineers. Pink Floyd and the Beatles were the same way.
I think Bill Ward deserves a mention too, he also had a lot of jazz and funk in his playing, in both cases it really fits the rest of the sound. Bill Ward is really groovy for a "heavy metal" drummer. But I'm a guitar player so I don't really know what I'm talking about. Although to me Black Sabbath always seemed more heavy jazz than heavy rock. Or both mixed. Especially if you turn the gain down a lot of riffs and solos are super jazzy, with a little blues mixed in so the swinging drums really contribute, which I used to not hear that much. But these days I try to focus on the drums more and I'd love to get a cheap electric set to.mess around and mainly improve my time keeping, always a huge weak point as a lead guitarist, which always made my rythm guitar suck. So now I'm focusing on that and it has already improved my lead playing a lot by paying more attention to the rythm rather than just noodling away and doing my own thing which is why I'm a sucky lead guitarist as well... but working on it after 18 years ignoring the problem.
@@221b-l3t There are a number of really good guitarists who play the drums or who started out on them then switched. Eddie Van Halen comes to mind. Also Jack White is a drummer. A good YOutube video of him playing with John Paul Jones I believe and Sea Sick Steve. Paul McCartney can play. Stewart Copeland another one. I think it helps you develop a good sense of time and rhythm and also teaches you about space and listening to the other musicians in the band. If you want a feel of jazz in drumming Mitch Mitchell is a good one to listen to. Ian Paice on the Malice In Wonderland album has a lot of funk. I think you are right about Bill Ward. I would say him and Bonham were more like swing drummers. If you look at Joe Morello and some of his solos (He was the drummer for the song Take 5 by Dave Brubeck) you can see where Bonzo got some of his chops from. Playing with his bare hands for instance!!! Oh yeah ..don't leave out Carl Palmer. He was friends with Buddy Rich...Carmine and Vinnie Appice...lots and lots of really good "swing" drummers out there. The Heavy Metal drumming is too on the nose for me and gets boring.
I have spent my whole life in music, writing, recording, giging....my father was a pioneer in the radio/dj world of the 60s 70s and 80s, i just wanted to say rick,its a great channel and I appreciate you passing along knowledge and truth about music. Big fan ......thank u, Dave C.
@@DG-sf9ei at 4:05 the guy who recorded the track literally describes which delay device he used.
Bonzo is up there with a pint of beer in hand. Just smiling at how he is still being mentioned 40 years later and probably will be 40 years to come.
First video in the MixBusters series! More plz...
MJ Snosk8er yesssss
Mixbusters is a fucking great idea!
Yeesssssss.
MJ Snosk8er oh yes!
MixBusters. Pure genius, Sir!
RP's harmonica playing on Levee is what makes this blues so brilliant. Oh Yeah !!!
There was something about the echo on harmonica too...a reverse echo...and so they rarely did it live
Before saying something against what you said, people should make a research to validate their opinion. You're not a random guy, you're a teacher who's got a great career, who's provided hundreds of high-level contents and who has shown, in more than one occasion, the value of his knowledge. Keep on rocking, Rick!
Thanks for setting the record straight. I feel this is one of the greatest drum tracks on all time. The huge sound he gets is just amazing! Credit to Andy Johns for thinking of the echo unit and the mic placements.
It’s absolutely brilliant and beautiful and it’s simplicity isn’t it? We fast forward at the clock. 50 years later and people just aren’t creative anymore. Kind of sad isn’t it?
Bonzo said, “ ok drums, this is what I need to hear from you” and the drums, drummed. And Bonzo was pleased.
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Amazing comment😂😂🤘
@@abhishekharwani1578 average to below average comment. Gets a mediocrity medal, and maybe small trophy for participation in a TH-cam comment section.
@@randybest7805 did manage to get a reaction from you though, didn't it?
@@abhishekharwani1578 The comment by itself, no. However the comment led to reactions, that then led me to my reaction. So… I reluctantly agree with you, but I have to because I do agree and because it’s true
I don't get why people stop thinking when they hear of these wild claims. The speed of sound is 343 m/s which means that a delay of 225 ms needs the sound source to be 77,4 m away from the mic. That's a tall stairway. Almost halfway to heaven probably.
How dare you throw facts and logic into this!
You beat me to it! The math doesn't add up. And you can also hear that there is no audible delay when Page claps in the documentary.
But you should know that they have got the stairway to heaven, not almost. And it is the deer pass for the unicorn as well.
They (engineers) said the echo was created with a machine. Which means they used the stairway acoustics for the original sound quality.
Anything Page claims to the contrary can be written off as slight-of-hand.
343 m/s is the speed of sound in dry air. Sound travels slower in humid air. But we don't need to check historical weather data. We already know that the air was heavy with unicorn tears.
Rick Beato is such an awesome guy for making free videos!
Support him on Patreon so he can still do this for free ;) !!
Adriana C Too bad he doesn't have a Patreon ;)
Seriously though, I will join the Beato Club some day but as a teenager money isn't exactly in huge amounts lol
G Sligo I need to save money for the future.
Buy his book, join the club, watch and comment on all his videos. We all have our part to play.
Larry John Um excuse me sir, art thou forgetting the beautiful Rick Beato Coffee Mugs! You gotta buy them to!
This!! This is why Rick Beato is my go to on all things music. His breaking down of all things music is on point and CORRECT. We're still debating this song how many years later? Jesus im old. Keep up the outstanding work Rick.
Everything you need to know to debunk the "natural echo" myth is taught in high school. At STP (standard temperature and pressure), the speed of sound is 1,125 feet per second. In 225 milliseconds, that's 253 feet, the round-trip distance needed to create the delay. That's 126.6 feet one-way. So there would have to be a smooth hard reflecting surface 126 feet away from the mic to create the basic delay. But wait - there's more. Due to the inverse-square property of wave propagation from a point source, the reflected energy off of a flat surface would be so faint that nothing on earth would be able to record it distinctly; the reflected sound would be over 200 dB below the audio level of incident sound. So that smooth hard surface 126 feet away would have to be a circular section to collect as much of the incident wave as possible and reflect it back to a relatively small area around the mic. For fans of American football, that's a curved smooth hard wall over 40 yards from the kit and mics. Inside a house. If this all happened in a stairway, it would have to be over 12 stories high. Ummm ... no.
you are a dedicated person
I just nutshelled the same thing before I saw your post. What I realized just after I posted, however, is that many (most?) listeners probably aren't hearing the delay. They're probably thinking that every sound they're hearing was actually played by Bonham, and they don't realize that they're hearing sounds that have been repeated in time with the music by a machine
But Bonzo was really in the basement of Westminster Abbey, and the microphone was in the highest steeple. Add in the acoustics of a midieval cathedral, and you have the echo.
Maybe it was recorded in a Stairway to Heaven - that might be high enough ; )
@@williama.walker2287 I've been in a lot of cathedrals, and they are shaped so there are no single echoes. The walls are irregular so the reverb is continuous. Our church here is much smaller but it has parallel walls and the delay time is ridiculously high. Very hard getting intelligibility out of speech, but Gregorian chant sounds great.
Correction Rick. It's a little known fact, but Bonham's drums on When The Levee Breaks were actually recorded on the Moon with the mics set up in the fourth and fifth dimensions to create that famous sound. At least that's what my buddy's stoner cousin's uncle's cat said.
Yes. This is consistent with the story I heard as well. Gumby was there setting up the mics, and Pokey took him aside and said, "Hey Gumby, you toss off to the pub while Bonzo and me make some rock history." He did it all with claymation horseshoes, and then Gumby's dad came and rescued them from the Blockheads with his hook and ladder fire truck.
Was that before or after Satan disguised as Benny Hill visited them and got them all to sign away their souls in exchange for fame and fortune?
Or was it on the Dark side of the Moon?
LOL LOL
😹😹
This cant be true.. we never went to the moon.
In other words, social media is an "echo chamber"!
Who else thinks this comment is FKN GREAT!!! HAAAA!
CLAP clap CLAP clap
A Binson echo chamber
👏👏👏👏
👏👏👏👏
my father introduced Led Zeppelin to me in 2005 when i was a teenager...i was in to drums before because of John Bonham,..he is the reason i listened to Zeppelin,..now i play a guitar and still he is one of my fav. musician of all time..i dont know why but he just got those kinda aura...a magician performing his marvelous tricks or an amazing artist painting the perfect sky....Kashmir was always my fav. from their songs
Wait, you're saying that you, an actual producer, understand production better than us laypeople?? That's crazy talk!
What if I identify as a “music producer”?
@Maria Concetta Di Lecce you do realize that the actual people that recorded the song did say they used an echo?
@@DG-sf9ei It called riding a fader....
But I heard from a guy who's cousin said he met a dude who was the brother of the guy who was there when they recorded it.
That's not valid information?
@@DG-sf9ei ANDY JOHNS said he used an echo effect, you dolt
This is all wrong. Everybody knows that Led Zeppelin sampled the drums from the Beastie Boys song «Ryhmin & Stealin» ;-)
@L K it's true
Hahahahahaha
Haha... Funny.
yep
Everybody knows .....
Best drum sound ever, the legend of the myth continues.
.......and this is why zeppelin were so big.
Ikr? Four Sticks was titled that supposedly b/c Bonzo kept fucking up the song,and eventually got so mad that he grabbed up two sets of sticks and just KILLED the song. Amazing.
Let's just agree that the best drum sound is subjective, however, John Bonham had to be playing them.
Wish everyone would get off bonhams dick, yes hes one of the best, but nobody bats an eye at jimi hendrix's drummer mitch mitchell?
Get a big 24 " bass drum that's not too deep and muffled slightly and anyone can get this sound. Easy
What's hard to get is Bonham's feel....not so easy
The best place I ever heard this song was in a large square field that was surrounded by tall trees. The field was about 400 feet square.
We were having a party with a fire near one corner and someone drove to the opposite corner an blasted When the Levee Breaks on their car system. This was back in the early 70s.
The sound had an added punch with what seemed like harmonic echo to it.
Okay, my head phones were actually better. But that field gave the echoing drums a new level of interest.
We had a girl that came out there who was pretty good on a harmonic. She played from that corner one night and it was amazing! So the field definitely had it's magic to add.
Led Zepplin will always be the most powerful band of all time . They Absolutely ruled this earth .
Four masters play together .
Best rock band EVER !
Cinematic Passages rock monsters !
That is until Echo and The Bunnymen came along
Boring crap
Thus, finally the REAL answer to this mystery. The drums were recorded from the upper edge of the stratosphere, just right at the foot of their perch.
I have no idea how or why this will ever be relevant in my life, but DAMN i love listening to the detail that goes into making incredible music. Thank you!
What your experiment showed me Rick, was that between Jimmy and Andy Johns, they must have dialled back the Binson in the mix so that it's quite subtle, because it's more apparent on the bass drum but not quite so emphatic on the snare. That's what makes it so hard to figure out and that is why it is such a great sound.
Rick, you're no Bonzo, but you're a frickin' genius.
@@DG-sf9ei could be that kick drums project sounds forward instead of all around, the sound would have naturally hit the walls instead of rising upwards to the stair mounted mics, also the fact that kicks are naturally much heavier and more pronounced making the echo blend more with the sound
@@DG-sf9ei Jesus, YOU ARE WRONG! Were you there? Hell, who knows if you can even play drums. But if you can, so what? Andy Johns was there, and anything he says trumps anything you cuold ever possibly think of. Grow up!
@@DG-sf9ei u sir, are the east end of a westbound horse
@@alancassett137I love and will use this phrase from now on. Thank you for that. Such a classy way to diss someone. Haha 👌🏼
I guess what Page was emphasising was the natural reverb of the Headley Grange lounge/staircase, but people have misinterpreted it as referring to delay/echo.
Tom Adams. You're saying here what I was thinking. If that stairwell did not have some good acoustic response to begin with, why would they decide to set up the drums there to record them to begin with? Especially a band like Zeppelin with gold albums and a recording budget etc. So the myth is more appealing that it was the natural echo in the staircase of a big old manor, instead of that was the starting point and then electronics were used.
Could this be what Stairway to Heaven is about?
@@kenkinnally6144 because Jimmy Page said so???... he was in a video and SAID as much.....
Also pretty sure a noticeable echo with repeats would have to be over a larger distance than 50 or 100 feet
i agree, that's the sense i got watching the clip originally
Always loved the way he drags the beat ,it sounds so heavy
Wait... no unicorn tears? I signed up for unicorn tears, damnit :(
What do you think caused the levees to break? unicorn tears. Lots of unicorn tears.
Universal Audio is working on a Unicorn Tears plugin its called horn of the gods.
"I Am a Unicorn!" said the Rhinoceros.
I heard it was dragon sweat actually, i heard it in a dream back in 72
To be fair, there might have still been unicorn tears involved...No one has actually denied the use of unicorn tears :)
I’m not sure how many decades ago I heard this song, but it was quite evident that the drums we’re delayed. Thank you for this video (I’m just shaking my head now)!
Nice one RB. I'm a drummer. Totally agree that it's always sounded like an echo applied to mix. Yet I've heard many people delve into stairwell stories to explain this sound. Two things. One, people tend to conflate reverb and echo, and to be fair, in the natural world these phenomena are both created by the same thing; the interaction of sound waves with ambient object. But... I haven't heard a real echo that could retain so much of the original sound. The stairwell/lobby/big-space is giving the reverb and the delay is applied by a box that records and plays back the sound (which naturally was analogue at that time). And Two, there IS a double in the groove. I think if it where played without a double it would more clearly be an applied-echo sound to an untrained ear. There's something about the sound of a triple, with it's hit>mix>echo against other hit>echo ('fake' doubles) that helps play around with what you perceive as an echo (and no-doubt helps it sound awesome).
As a drummer and sound engineer I totally concur that there is ambient mics with compression and the slap echo from a device. The first kick drum hit is a double. The version Rick did nailed the simple echo but missed the first kick drum being a double.
A game of telephone put to rest, really interesting video.
+My Knees Hurt just said herpes money is from disk saucers lol
Setting those autistic dorks straight since 2016
Make it stop! Hahaha.... Numbnuts... I appreciate the PSA, but one response would have been enough. He never said it's where the echo came from.... Geez
It's so obvious that's an echo, anyone who knows anything about using a delay can hear that...
Nice job!
I’m a self employed pest control technician. I have this same problem happen to me all the time where someone knows more about bugs than I do....I simply reply “If you know so much, why did you call me?”
I love your videos Rick! They’ve inspired me to work harder to be a better musician. Thank you for all this great content!!
Actually many professions in the biology departments could know more about them than you do, but you must be knowing more on how to eradicate them
@@MrMOGHammer it’s known as Entomology not Biology. And no they still wouldn’t know as much I do. Class room knowledge isn’t the same as real world experience.
Hello Rick. I'm a drummer in Austin.
Pro drummer and engineer for 53 years.
Worked with Andy Johns in 1988.
Hung with him for 6 weeks. Your right
About the echo. The fact that people can't hear the difference says a lot.
I was asking him about recording Zeppelin,stones, jethro tull.
Also got to work with Daniel lanois.
Thanks Rick.
Biggest ears on TH-cam.
"When the Levee Breaks" the national anthem of all rock drummers over the world!
@@SmethiousReborn you're a real piece
AMEN !!!!! It really is.
This is exactly the truth. Great video explanation. I was good friends with Andy and worked with him in the studio a few times over the years .He literally said this word for word to me as well. We sat down many times and he shared all the stories of what went on, on so many levels. He shared exactly what happened recording that track, where, why and how. Funny how many stories have manifested. Trust the engineer! :)
I heard that when Don McLean took his Chevy to the levee and found out it was dry, he bashed it with a pair of nunchucks. Jimmy Page, who just happened by, recorded it all on his walkman.
Hilarious!
Lmfaooooo stahhhhhpp!! I’m dying 🤣🤣
Was trying to work up something to this effect but your comment is much better 😂
LMAO
Now THAT is some epic comedy sir!!! LMAO indeed, I join the others!
Rick don't give any thought to the haters out there. I have just recently discovered your channel and I must say that I am thoroughly impressed with your knowledge of rock music and even more impresses with you musical talent. You have really opened my eyes and given me a greater appreciation for the music that I grew up with. Keep it up Bro!
Regardless of how it was recorded, when my band plays it live I "play" the echoes in the intro so the crowd recognizes the song. 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Sean Bowen Nobody cares. Geek
@@yukefort8402 5 people care 🤣
So basicly youre like.....FUCK LED ZEPLIN AND THEIR SHITY MUSIC STYLE..AND BONZO...SHHHEESH...I ..DO IT BETTER.WHEN ....WE...PLAY WE PLAY THE ECHO.......who are you...whos your band...what classic timeless piece that the whole planet knows is your music?..or do you just do covers and your huge ass ego thinks your band is somehow.....better....than zeplin?..what countries have you traveled to and sold out a colosseum?.....SIT THE FUCK DOWN TINY LITTL BOY....LEARN WHAT BEING .....HUMBLE....IS ALL ABOUT...GROW UP A LITTLE TINY BIT.....then you will realize that.......YOUR BAND...... Needs a lot lot lot more practice to even be able to tighten the skins on bonzos drum kit let alone ......PLAY LIKE THE GOD HE IS......
Christo, mate. Chill.
chronicstories , relax it's a comment not a dick, don't take it so hard.
RIP Andy Johns.
Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. - Plato
Robert Frias pretty much sums up all internet comments
Better to keep ones mouth shut and look stupid than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
Where did Plato say that?
@@kevinbradshaw1420 Athens.
Nothing proves a point better that a bogus quote. - Alcibiades
THIS video. So much being discussed, from recording to misinformation. I remember when Jimmy clapped on the documentary, and I was thinking, "Nope, I can't hear an echo." And now I can add an effect to my drum kit and I don't need to buy a castle!
I heard that the squeaks in "Since I've been loving you" are not the drum kit but paranormal beings summoned by Page from the underworld. 🤯
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet" - John Bonham
I beleive Einstein said that. Or was it Shakespeare?
He was so ahead of his time,he was already giving internet advice
Wow, that is an obvious lie. What he did say is "Anything unicorn related is really how we got that drum effect of course after watching a few youtube tutorials.". Get it right sir!
Also attributed to Abraham Lincoln.
Spot on. Great to hear the actual truth about this iconic track. Another interesting thing about this track is the audio tape of the band (not the vocals) was slowed very slightly to give the music that "sludgy" sound. You can really notice this on the swell and very long decay of John's cymbals. Absolutely brilliant.
This is another reason why they rarely played the song live.
Telephone. One person comes up with a sentence or message and whispers it to the person next to them. Children continue to pass the message between each other until it reaches the end of the class or circle. Usually, the message has been distorted after passing through so many people. Total vindication Beato, well done!
This is great! Thanks Rick. And more to your point, at 225 ms the sound would need to travel a total of about 280 feet for a natural echo. The room didn’t quite seem 14 stories.
Page says echo when he claps, but he clearly means reverb. Hence the confusion. You can't here a distinct second attack when he claps. He just means the natural reverb contributed to the richness if the sound.
How do you argue with someone that does recordings for a living? For longer than some have been alive possibly?
But ultimately, Rick you nailed it.
Very respectful way to bring the correct information to the forefront of fellow Zeppelin fans.
Okay, Rick, fair enough. Could you please tell us, though- Where’s that confounded bridge?
😂😂
Jimmy told a mate of mine that Rick hung the mics off of the Severn Bridge, which is why the sound of the drums is a bit Welsh..... and it was a hell of job getting leads that long.
✌👊😎
Whatever happened to Rosie and the Originals?
Hahaha!
Spot on and correct. The same thing happens in discussions on Kashmir. The Binson was used on the kick of that track, as well, to achieve the kick echo or second hit on the kick. An interesting note on Levee is that the drums Bonham was using for the Grange sessions were actually in another part of the house, but Ludwig had sent Bonham a new kit and Mick Hinton set up that kit in the lobby and when Bonham sat at the kit, the sound was there. Johns immediately set up the Beyer mics and the rest is history.
When the Levee Breaks is true genius. My favorite part is the outro. Jonezy and Bonham are filling ever bar with pure magic. Those years were off the charts and continue to sound fresh off the presses.
"Cryin won't help ya, prayin won't do ya no good"
@@LoneLee2022 When the levee breaks mama you got to move.
I just think it’s godly. Almost to put four of those musicians together and how much incredible music they recorded. To hell with the Rolling Stones. They have nothing on Led Zeppelin. They are true musicians
I admit: in my comment under the other video I was referring to things jimmy saied in „it might get loud“ and on other occasions. With this and, like you say in this video, stuff I read on the internet as only sources ... I really never doubted what seemed to be logical to me.
I never heard or read the comments from the sound engineer you showed in this video.
But I’m not to stubborn to say: I was wrong!
Thx for this great video and information and thx for an reminder in the subject of „check your facts!“ :)
There's nothing like a little humility, so I'm surprised this comment has been massively upvoted.
That said, prepare to be persuaded of yet another version of events.
So rare these days... way to be s stand up person and admit being wrong. We learn from mistakes, and move the f*** on!
Unlucky!!!1
sorry for all the sanctimonious comments of people celebrating your confession - there is something very worrying in fact about the perhaps sycophantic nature of some of the defenders on a person bullying those who might think differently rather than standing up to it and saying perhaps i am wrong but in your haste to judge me wrong you negated the importance of what i felt was important.
I go back... try it yourself - download audacity - record a clap in a dry room, then apply delay, now go into a bathroom or a room with sound reflection surfaces like a bathroom and record a clap and then apply that to delay - there will be a tonal difference.
Hence no one was right... the hallwayers who insisted there was no echo machine or the binson echo drones who negate the relevance of it being recorded in the hallway, This was a silly rush to judgement and everyone laid out their agenda either open to el comando or staying open minded and realising Jimmy likes to emphasise the natural echo in the hall, so did the rest of the band, in fact they were all thinking it was a special place to capture the drums. otherwise why the hell do they have the drums based in the hallway.
I trust my own experiments yes echo was used, but so was the natural reverb/echo of the hallway.
I have ALWAYS said: There’s a reason why Stairway ends Side 1 but Levee ends the entire album (or Side 2, if you prefer). And Mr. Bonham’s drumming (on both)
is a BIG part of that.
Your enthusiasm for music, specifically rock music, is awesome. Great demonstration of that drum effect. How great would it be to hang out and just talk about music!! Thank you.
4:31 "I had wanted to go to another house, but Jimmy felt it a little too expensive. . ." They didn't call Jimmy "Led Wallet" for nothing.
Led wallet is comedy.
There's a version without the echo effect. Look up "Led Zeppelin Studio Magik". It's a bootleg of outtakes and rough mixes. "Take 2" of When The Levee breaks doesn't have the echo effect on the drums yet, or at the very least it's a more subtle effect. It's also on YT if you look up "(title) Alternate Version Outtake" THAT is what the drums really sounded like in the stairwell.
Damn. Even without the Echorec, that version grooves like a sunofagun.
One thing I noticed about the track is that Bonzo has perfect timing. Inhuman machine like timing. Using Virtual DJ (software), you can put a loop anywhere in the beat, even mid bar or two notes in, and it will be a perfect seamless loop. Works for any Zeppelin song. Then wheneverthe drums pause, the rest of the band slips time by a fraction of a beat.
I watched a video explaining...how..they 'Zep'..purposely went OUT of time of a few songs. Such as Black Dog. The sound was revolutionary, in such as its incredibly difficult to make a song, out of time, AND make it sound right.
As a non-musician, I appreciate the info. Excellent videos!
Here's something to consider - the speed of sound in air is about 1125 ft per second. To get an echo at 225 ms, the sound would have to reflect off of a surface that is 126 feet away. That's about 12 stories in height. I doubt that the entry stairwell in Headley Grange is that tall!
Beat me to it!
ok, great, but what's the airspeed of an unladen swallow?
Listen to 3:30, 3:39, there is only REVERB, no ECHO. Go to a dictionary or encyclopedia and find out the difference between the two.
there would certainly be great reverb in that room, but nothing like the echo heard on the track. Natural clean echo is pretty rare and almost impossible to capture alongside the source on directional mics due to the large dynamic differences in volume and the opposing directions.
LOL, well, you just unveiled and laid out the utter idiocy of social media and its partakers. Congrats!
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.”
- Bertrand Russell
True!
ya tawkin t’a’me?
Hmmm, are you sure? :-)
Perfect! *hug* .
Lemme rub yer feet.
@@RickBeato OMG you're so hot if only you put two ff's at the end of your name you would be Rick beat off
Please continue to make videos that call out idiots who have no idea what they are talking about. Love it!!
For YEARS I've always wondered how Bonzo got that echo sound. I thought they were dragging ghost notes. I was wrong. Very informative. Thanks Rick, you da man.
The microphones dipped in unicorn tears sounds way more plausible to me. You are wrong Rick Beato!
If anyone could find a unicorn and make it cry, it was Bonham.
@@twogruden9943 they didn't have to find it because Robert Plant rode it to the manner.
it was unicorn piss get your facts straight
No! The unicorn's horn was miked, and the delay resulted from the trampoline he was bouncing on. Two unicorns were used, one named Hedley and one Grange, and the former was placed on the trampoline after being gingered by John Paul Jones. These were the same two unicorns that won the Kentucky Derby, doing so _twice,_ and were coveted so much only Led Zeppelin could afford them.
I'm pretty sure it was Thor's Hammer, but it was dipped in Unicorn Tears. That's the important nuance everyone was missing.
So well argued.
You are a role model for those who aspire to clear thinking, Rick!
Bonzo was a drum god and hit so hard the drums naturally echoed.
On the moon and back
@@DG-sf9ei I can definitelly hear the echo on each hit. Some hits are louder than others, so their repeats is more faint. Thanks to the dynamic playing from bonham
He didn't _quite_ knock his drums into next week, but he _did_ briefly send 'em forward by 225ms.
@@DG-sf9ei Another i. savant posted almost the same words elsewhere in the responses. Maybe you could form a club
@@DG-sf9ei I am a drummer, and you need to listen again. The echo on the "next" bass drum note is under the hihat. Because it's an offbeat, the hihat is right on the beat where the echo would be, and is, if you listen carefully. Calling Rick delusional, when he's got the guy who actually recorded the thing telling us how he did it, is a bit much - and besides, how do you explain how the 2nd bass note escaped a natural echo !!
Just think I have learned something at age 68 about my favorite band from my younger days . Rick your right ,some people unintentionally say things ,before they do there leg work. But the song remains the same no matter what ,great.
One of the rare TH-cam videos titled "The TRUTH…" about something, where you really learn the truth about something. ;-)
Cheers, Rick
Truth is I don't care where or how they were recorded, only that they WERE!
I wish I could like this a thousand times!
Let's get our own drum sounds and dance to that beat!
For sure, people on here need to get out more, they're over thinking this way too much and being far to geeky about it.... We all know zep created musical genius, just listen and love it ffs!!!
Fair dos, but if you're into recording music, this stuff matters.
@@keithjohnston6861 Especially JPJ, He wanted no part in the occult. Page owned the house for 22 years then sold it. it had changed hands a couple times before burning down a couple years ago.
I love all your breakdowns of songs Rick Beato (Roundabout by Yes is probably my favourite) so, please continue to do what you do as it is very informative and gives us all an insight into these well known tracks. You are also a very talented musician in your own right of course.
Kind regards from Jim, a 64 year old drummer in the UK.
One of the greatest channels on TH-cam.
Thank you. Peace from Ohio.
Sounds like a combination of the two. Distance miking and the echo machine. An absolute massive sound and iconic. I'm a guitarist but can appreciate a master musician. Bonham has no equal.
Well, yeah. I don't think Rick is denying that the stairwell is part of the sound. He's just saying it's not what's causing the echo.
@@rome8180 - Exactly. I love all the nayboobs who cannot grasp that simple concept.
Lots of folks don't know the difference between Echo and Reverb, or worse, they don't think it matters, so even if you tried to do them the favor of telling them, they'd just roll their eyes and think you're splitting hairs … which is why so many good engineers learn to keep their mouths shut.
You can get discreet echos naturally in a big room, especially with hard materials like stone, but in this case it wasn't it.
Echo and reverb are exactly the same. DELAY is a distinct effect, and reverb and delay may be used together in equal or varying proportions or individually. Echo (or reverb, take your pick, they're the same!) is used in this demo.
You're not listening to Andy Johns, the guy who recorded the thing - so watch the video again @4:50, the Reverb came from the stair case ( who's ambience was enhanced by "compressing the crap" out of the mics ), but the Echo came from the Binson Echorec "which is tough to find now, but it's a DELAY device" … which was the whole point of this video.
All I have to say is that I moved next door to Headley Grange a year ago. I've been into the Grange and clapped exactly like Jimmy Page does in the clip on this video. Come on, how lucky am I????? I still pinch myself regularly to check I'm not dreaming!
Nice!
You could be dreaming
You could also be loony as a barn door. Have you checked?
If you think you got problems in convincing folk of that. Feel the pity of me .... I met Robert plant at a Blue Peter bring and buy sale around 1979. It was in the village hall of Wolverly just up the road from where he lived outside Kidderminster. Please feel my pain when open up that line.
Hey buddy, I’m just down the road from you, know the house well
This was terrific. That song and the intro is so tremendous..followed by the harmonica. I was instantly hooked when I first heard it. I also like it sampled by the Beastie Boys in their hit song Rhyming and Stealing.