Why A Two State Solution Won't Work | Peter Hitchens
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- Peter Hitchens and John discuss the possibility of a two state solution to rectify the conflict between Israel and Palestine and why it is not a feasible plan.
Hitchens currently writes for The Mail on Sunday and has contributed to numerous other newspaper outlets. He has published various books, including The Abolition of Britain, The Rage Against God, The War We Never Fought, The Phoney Victory, and his most recent book, A Revolution Betrayed: How Egalitarians Wrecked the British Education System.
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hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/
There can’t be a two state solution when one state has sworn to destroy the other state
The South bank hasn’t. It’s the presence of Hamas
which one ?
If Israel wanted to destroy the Nazi islamists they could have done it long ago in one day, and haven't. If the Nazi's could, they would destroy Israel ASAP. Theres a difference.@@robertholland7558
@@willempasterkamp862 The south bank has not sworn to destroy Israel and is not under the control of HAMAS
yes there can be. If there is war, one of states will win and the other will lose. Then the losing state is forced to replace it's government with a government that's not inclined to make war again, at least not for a long while. That's not unusual, is it?
The only thing less realistic than a two-state solution is every other solution that's ever been considered.
Superb
that's for sure@@frusciantesplectrum7980
EPIC comment! nailed it right on the head
There could be a one state solution which would include the west bank and Gaza, with Arabs having the same rights as Israeli Arabs, that is, like any other Israeli citizen
@@amiramduby To be fair, Israeli Arabs don't really have the same rights as Israeli Jews either. That's why it's called Apartheid. But other than that, you are right.
Hutchins is correct in saying a 2 state solution won't work but it's not because the will is not there but there are so many different factions unwilling under any circumstances to allow it. He's right that no Arab state will sign up to it by officially recognising Israel, and some of the Arab states would be content with the conflict to continue since it would allow them to drum up support internally against a perceived common enemy despite their own failures. It's tragic but that's life!
But Israel already exists and is recognized by the world so why does it matter if the Arabs don't recognize Israel when it is the state of Palestine that is inexistent?
What utter tripe you speak. You Literally have no clue.
Hello, have you ever heard of the Abraham Accords?
When the oppressor complains when the oppressed reacts to being oppressed by the oppressor, the oppressor sheds '000s of crocodile tears. Always have always will.
Shame on Israel.
Shame on the IDF.
Shame on Netanyahu.
Shame on their continued killing of innocent children.
@@hitreset0291 Shame on you for ignoring the original victims and not holding Hamas responsible for all of it.
The Jews cannot leave. Hammas won’t stop. The status quo pre October 7th is probably as good as we can hope for.
Apartheid can never endure as the "status quo"
In what way is it "apartheid"?
@OtnerNaut a large section of the population is disenfranchised and treated as second class citizens based on their race. They don't have control over their own water, electricity, or emergency services. They are systematically being forced out of their homes to make room for jewish settlers, in violation of international law. When you have a state where one person who has never lived in the country can show up and have full rights as a citizen, while another who has lived there their entire life on the same land their ancestors lived on for a thousand years cannot vote or move about the country freely, and the only difference between the two is race, that's called apartheid
Problem is whenever you divide states there will always be a "my land" argument. Kashmir is a two state solution with the Indian and Pakistan occupied Kashmir simultaneously existing as a problem between them.
North Korea continues to radicalize and threaten peace in the region since it is a two state solution.
Vietnam which used to be two state solution unified and now Vietnam is the only country that did away with the two state solution and came to unify and is better off for it.
"Vietnam is the only country that did away with the two state solution and came to unify and is better off for it."
Would the victims of the communist takeover--those murdered or put in prison camps or fleeing for their lives on rafts--agree with you?
@@FactCheckerGuykindly confirm what war is actively happening between North and South Vietnam.
You see the north Koreans building weapons and maybe a dirty bomb trying to provoke conflict in the region.
You see the Indians and Pakistanis both become military powers with nuclear assets due to this two states solution on Kashmir.
Please get real. Today there's no war in Vietnam and the country is much better developed because it had unified for better or worse.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
The Israeli's & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Palestinian State Next To Israel, But God's Wrath Is Just Around The Corner.
The USA and Russia drew the borders for Korea. Like the British helping create Israel. The Americans helped create North Korea. Didn't exist before foreign meddling.
You make a valid point.
You can say the same for Cyprus
"A two State Solution won't work!"
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
The Israeli's & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Palestinian State Next To Israel, But God's Wrath Is Just Around The Corner.
@omarlittle-hales8237 On women and babies again? Hamas seem a little shy to show their face atm😂🇮🇱
@@spm36 Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Netanyahu & Mossad Aided And Funded Hamas, They Had Inside Help, That's Why The Border Was Left For 4 Hours On The Sabbath.
Two states have existed and worked perfectly well in Cyprus for the past 40 years. Explain why this can't continue
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
My Two Favourite Subjects Are Theology And Psychology, Which Comes Very Useful To Online Trollers.
Seems like you hit the nail on the head Peter. 100% accurate.
His first point is just silly. Of course there are problems if Hamas or similar is elected leader of the Palestine state, but that's literally true of any neighboring country anywhere in the world. It's not a reason not to have a second state any more than North and South Korea not liking each other is a reason for one of them to not exist. There's always a possibility your neighbor could become an extreme terrorist state, but it's still required to take that risk to even have such a thing as basic international relations and boundaries. The second point has some truth to it - basically that there isn't enough desire for peace on either side, which is true - but that desire is a necessary precursor to any peace, whether it be a two-state solution or otherwhise. It's not a problem with the two-state solution, and he also presumes contrary to what they've actually been doing that the leadership in the West Bank for example wouldn't accept it. They've repeatedly said it's what they want.
It should tell you something that no Arab state wants any refugees from Gaza .
Because they don't want Jihad Zombie's
That is why there are 3rd generation "refugees" (I don't see them as refugees, you can be a refugee for a year, maybe two). in Gaza. Israel has been cursed with this problem, by the other 99.84% of the Arab world. Blame THEM.
Why should the Palestinians leave? Why shouldn't the Israelis leave?
The Palestinians have already been pushed out of their land once already. Sending them all away to other countries is exactly what Israel wants, and other Arab countries don't want to be complicit in Israel's crime against humanity of ethnic cleansing. It would put them on the same 'side' as Israel and they are against Israel.
So what you're saying is nonsense. Israel-Palestine is the Palestinians' home too. Why should they leave?
@@tara34952 Oh look the anti-semite Palestine simp repeating fake revisionist history talking points and suggesting that people who were born in a globally recognized country can leave for said fake revisionist history.
When you identify with murderous 8th century Islamist barbarians you may want to look at yourself LOL
@@tara34952 Maybe they shouldn't but certainly they should. You may talk about morality but I'm talking about pragmatism. Why should they leave? Because they have to. Why shouldn't the Israelis leave? Some do, most don't, because they don't have to.
Be advised: this writer is an American, and all four of my grandparents left their home countries, from necessity. American was willing to take them in, and thus was complicit in the crime of ethnic cleansing, but also was innocent of the crime of depraved indifference. The neighboring Arab countries are innocent of complicity in ethnic cleansing, and are guilty of depraved indifference.
In their defense, Palestinian refugees have proven to be trouble. They insurrect, they seize territory, the side with invasion. In Kuwait, the PLO sided with Hussein. After the war the king kicked them all out. Woe unto a people with incompetent leaders.
The surrounding Arab countries would oppose any permanent solution as they do not want the Palestinians in their backyard.
They are only too happy to unload the unsolvable Palestinian problem onto Israel.
Why are Palestinians an unsolvable problem?
Hardly. They've been protesting Palestinian suffering for decades.
Kind of like how europe u loaded their jewish problem
@@EmperorsNewWardrobe Because they do not want peace. They are violent and characterless people who revel in self-inflicted victimhood.
You cannot help people who do not want to help themselves.
Forcibly displacing people is called ethnic cleansing no Arab or any country on earth will be complicit is Israelhell crimes that’s why Arab countries refuse to take in Palestinians
There will never be a two state solution after the events of 7th October.
A State based on lies can not survive. No values to pass onto their children. When you know your history and you know who you are! Their treatment of the Palastinians spotlight is on them now exposed to the World what they are capable off. Anderson must find it distasteful listening to the disinformation propaganda spun for those unable to think for themselves. Has to show both sides!
3:04 I can confirm that. My father grew up in an Israeli town not far from Gaza. In his youth, he and his friends used to go to Gaza for night life. That seems so other-worldly now.
Going for Gaza for night life..I just could not believe this
Really? That was news to me wow
Very interesting stuff that makes you see how things have changed throughout the decades... Out of curiosity. Around what year was this?
Thanks for your comment. It was in the late 70s. Then, some 35 years prior, it was a sheikh who saved my grandma and her two little girls from the Nazis in Tunisia, risking his life and the life of his entire family for Jews (and indirectly contributing to me being here replying to you).
These first-hand stories provide me with a lot of perspective on the relationship between Muslims and Jews. They show clearly how Islam itself was never the problem, but the very recent rise of anti-semitism within Islam. That's good news, because either Judaism nor Islam is going anywhere anytime soon! @@georgezee5173
But it was in the time when Israelis have lived there.
The fact that people from Israel used to go to Gaza for the nightlife at the weekends is the key point for me. This is how life could be around the world and there has to be some hope in that.
20% of Israel population are Arabs and 20k Palestinians work in Israel. Only they go into Gaza for nightlife.
Yes but that was before settlements in the West Bank and forced evictions by a murdering occupation. As always Europeans deciding the future of the Arabs it is disgusting just like most of Hitchin’s Orthodox Christian intolerance. In 1948 Europeans evicted 750,000 Palestinians from their homes to refugee camps in the West Bank and Gaza and these thugs blame the Arabs for the problem 😢
@worldsalad that must have been a long time ago, ie when Egypt ran Gaza? Or before?
@imisstoronto3121 I'm Israeli, I'm not sure exactly but it was probably the early 1970s.
In some ways, isn’t that becoming the way of the world? Think of how connected we are today than we were 100 years ago? There are significant problems that are exposing right now but there is an international dialog about how the entire world is operating.
There is already a 'Palestinian' state, Jordan. That said, many of the Palestinians are from Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, KSA and Egypt. They are Arabs.
Jordan is East Palestine.
Israel is West Palestine.
@@patricka.crawley6572 ....in the land of make believe does 'Palestine' exist.
Ignored in the Palestinian narrative is the partition's gave the Arabs all of Jordan... the Arabs who stayed willingly instead of fleeing willingly or inciting terror became Arab-Israeli's and their descendants live in a first world democracy with equal rights. Why we tolerate these Islamist Jihad cultures of the rest of the bunch is beyond reason.
Egypt and Lebanon tho seem to want to move on with the civilized world and need to rid themselves of the Islamists.
@@patricka.crawley6572
Regionally speaking, yes but Israel is Israel and nothing else
@@deavman
A State founded by ZIONIST-IRGUN-LEHI-STERN ''terrorists' as the U.N., U.S. and U.K. declared.
a remarkable insight....
He is just saying what the Israelis were saying all over the years, but nobody actually listens to what they say. Look at the demographics of Israel and then look at the Palestinian, and tell me which side is willing to accept the other. What Hamas did hurt the Israelis and the Palestinians equally because peace is what the common people want.
Why only there’s so few people like Peter Hitchens…?
His brother had a much more intelligent take on the issue
th-cam.com/video/RpGtwHzxnrM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_0MCe7s6cbqBXd43
An Italian crime boss in New York once quipped, "Three men can keep a secret so long as two of them are dead." Israel, Palestine, and neighboring Arab states would likely agree when it comes to keeping land.
Really succinct & to the point
As far as I know they (the Palestinians) have already rejected a 2 state solution two times
Seven times
That's the inconvenient truth they won't admit to.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
The Israeli's & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Palestinian State Next To Israel, But God's Wrath Is Just Around The Corner.
@@omarlittle-hales8237not
So, the Zionists take ALL the Palestinian land, then offer them less than 20 per cent back as a "solution"?
There will be no two-state solution.
That rare opportunity was lost on 15th May 1948.
And the Palestinians and the Arabs in their intransigent intolerance have forever helped chip away at any slightest prospect left.
1:07 “not necessarily publicly stated belief that Israel shouldn’t continue to exist” - that’s the only part I kind of disagree with. Palestinian leaders and activists are very vocal about this. “From the river to the sea” means all of it, the entire country, no Israel whatsoever. I’m being told on social media lately to “go back to where my grandparents came from” (for most of the Jews in Israel, there’s no legal option to do that even if they wanted to. They want us to move to Yemen or Czechoslovakia now?)
Isra*l's governing Party (LIKUD) charter states that FROM RIVER TO THE SEA, the entire territory is Jewish. That's billion times more genocidal than "Palestine shall be free". If you think freedom is genocidal, that's a you problem.
So where do the Palestinians who's families lived in historical Palestine for centuries go? Because Israel since it's inception has kicked out millions of Palestinians from their homeland so it can exist as a majority jewish state.
Those who at first do not want a 2-state solution are the Palestinians, now and always.
Their only negotiating option is I want everything, you get nothing.
It reminds me of Abba Eban's phrases: "It is the first war in history that the next day the victors asked for peace and the defeated asked for unconditional surrender"
or "Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity"
If the Palestinians really want peace and recognize the reality that Jews exist, have the right to exist and to live in Israel, peace will be possible.
What country would agree to give away half their country I'll wait? Obviously they weren't going to take the first deal. Then the second deal year's later was far worse than the first deal. Every deal is far worse and very difficult for them to agree to by design. Israel knew they didn't want to give away too much land because Israel is small so they're scared. They was never gonna give Palestine their rightful state. That's why Israel is so hated
Palestinian would agree to peace, but not confident about Hamas (always been anti-semitic) which was initially funded by Israel itself
@@constantinvaldor3742palestine is not country and never was so its not their choosing what to give or not.
UN gave arabs a chance they declined palestinians got jordan and they should go there there is no difference between jordanian and palestinian in dna
@@Mr.Cool628 no one believes you people that's why you world's most hated by far. But you all can live in fear it's cool
@@constantinvaldor3742 so many countries have lost territory all around the world. This was 75 years ago, most countries move on after such a long period of time. For example in the US all of Texas and much of the south was taken from Mexico by force. Mexico is not currently shooting thousands of rockets into Texas asking for the land back.
He's a good example of a 2 brother solution that didn't work.
I keep wondering what did we do to deserve being stuck with the less charismatic and intelligent of the Hitchens…
@@suspendedtwice4sayingrasis261 less intelligent lol. You wouldn't last 5 minutes debating him about any given subject (of course you could bore him to tears with a child like conversation about drugs and get him to leave). Everything he argues eventually comes round to be true, one such recently proven point being the lack of a true conservative party in Britain.
@@jamietherooster It’s funny that you reference the exact debate where he behaved like a complete child for absolutely no reason. 😄
@@jamietherooster never seen someone worship a man so hard in the comments before 😅
arguing against silly liberals who are determined to dig their own grave for years on end is enough to send anyone over the edge :)@@suspendedtwice4sayingrasis261
On point 👌
I think there is two options for long term peace, both of which require Jews around the world to vote out the far-right which governs Israel and put in it's place a government interested in a solution and willing to compromise (the leadership of the past 50 years has had absolutely no desire to do so - all peace offers such as at Oslo have been biased to the point of ridicule).
Both 1 and 2 state solutions have major obstacles.
In a one state solution in which all Palestinians are given Israeli citizenship the main obstacles are identity (the state would have to be renamed to Israel & Palestine, new flag, secularism) and the refugee question (all Palestinians refugees in neighbouring to be allowed to return or not)
In the two state solution the obstacles are defining the borders (for stability Gaza and West Bank ought to be connected by a contiguous land without Israeli enclaves, this means that contentious land swaps and relocation of settlers will need to be agreed, and Israel must grant Palestine enough land to host it's high population) and trust to ensure that no war breaks between the two. I think to do this the first step would be to deem political groups with anti-arab sentiment in Israel as anticonstitutional/illegal and likewise to anti-semitic ones like Hamas in Palestine so that neither can ever be in power. Both Israel and Palestine need to vow to give equal rights and safety to their arab and jewish citizens respectively. For Palestine to transition into a state like that I would argue that an international peacekeeping effort must be made (and definitely not US/EU lead), maybe South American countries or South Africa could help Palestine establish itself safely and help create safe borders and deal with extremist groups.
I agree with a lot of what you said. The very extremism that the jews were a victim of, has ruined former Palestine. Very unlikely to be peace now. These matters should've been dealt with swiftly at the time by the big powers. After all, terrorism is a result, and that threatens every single country in the west. And basically, western govs cannot protect their people. U. S, UK, UN made a major strategic error giving Jews land based on myths and religious nonsense. Should've been given a far off island where they could play with themselves. It would probably be anarchy known them. They create problems everywhere.
Silly
@@meidong5023 yeah you are
An interesting take.
I visited Israel, Gaza and West Bank back in 1993.
Israel (the whole country back then) was peaceful and cooperative with Jews and Arabs mingling quite happily. Of course there were occasional skirmishes outside my scope of vision, and in the North we heard gunfire from Lebanon, but it seemed perfectly safe and multicultural.
I had thought the 2 state solution was already in force by 2005, hence Hamas and The other "governments" of Palestine.
as an arab, and been following these stories since i was a kid, i always thought this is arab propaganda. But i was wrong. especially when i started to make Palestini friends, that have 0 chance to go back aee their families, because of the israeli state refuses to accept their return. Imagine this. you go outside america, and when you try to comeback they ask for visa, and when you apply fir it, its either refused or forever hang with not progress status or infos.
@@clarckkim The problem is twofold. Anyone born in Israel (as it was from 1948) is obviously entitled to citizenship.
However, the infighting between Jews and non Jews (not all Arab) plus the attacks from Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt all made governing a mixed state exceptionally difficult. That is why the partitions of Gaza and West Bank were formed; so Jews have their smaller homeland and others have their homeland also.
The difficulty of segregating the populations will never have a satisfactory result any more than the integration of incompatible populations.
Palestinians have citizenship of Palestine, Israelis have citizenship of Israel. Nobody is being denied their right to their homeland in the current configuration except displaced citizens who will return when it is safe.
@@clarckkimno one wants to give visa to a terrorist nation citizen
@@clarckkim I am curious for your perspective as an Arab; what do you think is the most viable or desired solution/outcome?
@@Tyler-vw9bhYou know what his answer is going to be, thats why this will never end…
Sometimes Peter Hitchens nails it and I think he’s done so here spot on.
What he nails is the same tired, racist rhetoric that the Israeli far right has been spouting for 75 years. At some stage, as each side gets more extreme and hateful and the massacres get worse, people will figure out that the extremist position hasn't worked. It didn't work under Begin, it didn't work under Shamir, it didn't work under Sharon and it isn't working under Netenyahu. Twelve hundred murdered Israelis and eleven thousand murdered Palestinians are proof of that.
Not sometimes sir.
He's spot on always..
I don't understand what an "informal agreement" looks like. Does it mean 1 side ceases to exist? It's easy to see why a 2 state solution is difficult but the alternative is one side gives up their hopes of having a state to call their own. Which side do you think is likely to do that?
Very true, what he said with states such as Iran.
The two state solution has been proposed and rejected (by the Palestinians) something like 6 times since 1920. Why would that change?
What? Israel and the US have vetoed every 2 state solution proposed by the UN every year since the 60s when it was first proposed. The Palestinians have not.
@@AbdullahNisar-qn6du that’s a hilarious lie. Go read history.
@@robinpickett7618 The actual voting record is more important than your personal beliefs. Go read history.
Not my beliefs. Even the wildly leftist Wikipedia states the truth. Every offer of a two state solution has been rejected by the Arabs. Twice they immediately attacked Israel. Not only that but the two state solution was implemented, that’s how Jordan came to exist out of the British mandate which covered the whole area of Israel and Jordan. The Israeli were supposed to get the whole lot but ended up with 20%. Prove me wrong.
There is already a 2 state solution. Jordan and Israel comprise Palestine, 80% of which is Jordan.
You words can't solve problem. You are lying
@@vidyarthi4009 how about you state what is a lie?
Do you dispute Jordan is part of Palestine? Do you dispute Jordan is 80% of Palestine? Impress the world with your knowledge, and point out what I said that was a lie.
Cue crickets.
@@duncansmith7562 Jordan part of Palestine? What are you on about?
@@abuansari05 What am I on about? Look at the map of the Palestinian Mandate, the area of Palestine that the League of Nations granted Britain to administer after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Look at that map carefully and look at its borders.
Now, you see present day Jordan occupies 80% of Palestine.
What is it that confuses you?
@@duncansmith7562 Yes Jordan was once part of Palestine until they split into transjordan and Palestine, Two different countries. Also most of the land now from historical Palestine either belongs to Israel or is illegally controlled by Israel, not Jordan. You cant just mention another country and say that's their state, it's not. Next thing you'll tell me Syria is the state for the Palestinians and Jordanians, becuase they were once all called Syria or Syria-Palestina.
It’ll work , that’s ultimately possible. And the solution for now . In the near future is one state solution with all the people in
Spot on
"The Israelis would never be willing"
For someone intelligent I can't comprehend the willful ignorance of all of the Israeli attempts at peace, and all the radical concessions offered to the Palestinians on that front.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
The Israeli's & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Palestinian State Next To Israel, But God's Wrath Is Just Around The Corner.
@@omarlittle-hales8237 Because Palestinians and Arabs in general are just a peace loving people that have never started multiple wars of extermination against the Israelis, or vowed to never stop the terrorism until Israel no longer exists.
@@l7986 Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Every Religious Group Has Been Persecuted, But Modern Zionism Keeps, Judeophobia Alive, To Justify Their Persecution Of The Native Palestinian's.
@@l7986 Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
I Stand With All Life, Including Israeli & Palestinian Lives, Whilst The Politician's Play Their Latest War Games.
@@l7986 Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
Eye For An Eye, Tooth For A Tooth = One Life For Another
= Not Slow Genocide Of Innocent Native Palestinians.
Two states means normalization..Thats not the Hamas way..The Hamas way is the non existence of an Israeli state. Hence, events like 10/7 will continue..
Yes but Israel started it; Hamas is the reaction to 75 years of Israeli brutality and oppression.
Israel makes absolutely no secret of the fact they want to erase all Palestinian identity and they want all Palestinians to leave so Israel can have just one big ethno-state only for Jews. Israel wants total control over the west Bank and Gaza and for Palestinians to either leave, die or cease to exist.
You can't work with someone like that. Hamas is the result.
Is Israel occupying Palestine or not?
@@svenandersson284 Hamas is in Gaza. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.
@@MwasserGaza has no freedom nor west bank have any freedom
If you have heard the rantings of Abbas against dem Jews you would think he was Julius Streicher (of Der Sturmer fame WW2) half brother. None stop antisemetic tosh and blaming them (Al Jazeera style) for all his problems and ills. Question is who will replace him.? If Hamas had not virtually committed suicide on 7.10 they would have tried (Black September style 1970 Jordan) to take over or simply won by election. They still LOVe Hamas on the West Bank! How would Israel have reacted to that one ??
that chair looks so hilariously awkward for the host looollll
Many people said that black majority rule would never happen in apartheid South Africa, or that members of the Provisional IRA would end up in government. But it happened. At some point Israel will have to negotiate with Hamas.
From the river to the sea. They tell you directly what they want.
Freedom? What a horrifying idea
@@ocold-gp3oi
What freedom do they not have?
@avishevin1976 freedom to vote, freedom to travel, freedom to emergency services, freedom to build their own airports and manage their own water and power. All freedoms they don't currently have in Palestine because of the apartheid government of Israel
@@ocold-gp3oi
They have the freedom to vote. They have the freedom to travel. They have emergency services. They have the freedom to manage their own water and power.
The largest state in Palestine, by area, is 100% Arab. You literally don't know what Palestine is.
@@ocold-gp3oi How do they use the freedom they already have? To elect a government that builds a killing machine.
Great interview
Reality check. Absurd is an understatement Thank you, Sir. The wirkd needed a reality check.
This is pretty brilliant. Thank you!
Thoughtful, carefully explained, and I agree the heart of the matter is this: are people in Israel and Gaza/West Bank willing to live in peace? Do they actually want that as an outcome, or do they actually want the other side gone regardless of their rhetoric?
Vast majority of them are like everyone else that just wants a life, regular like everyone else - so yes they want peace.
Problem isn't wanting, it's how to get there with so many bad actors in between them.
Justice is a prerequisite of peace.
@@karimmezghiche9921 that's incorrect - many many wars have reached peace without any justice to the victims. The concept of eternal fight until such an abstract concept as justice is reached is a leftist talking point - the eternal revolution.
Conflating class struggle with wars of nationalism is a stalin talking point.
Justice is inexistent when war happens cause the ones who pay rhe price aren't the ones who decided the wage war.
@@karimmezghiche9921all war is based on justice. Peace is compromise
@@retardo-qo4uj
Absolutely not, was the European colonization of Africa based on justice?
Was the genocide against the native Americans based on Justice?
Was the Japanese war crimes in China during WW2 based on justice?
I like his choice of words. He called them inhabitants of the West Bank of Gaza instead of Palestinians.
Denying Palestinians their identity as Palestinians is offensive, insulting and racist and completely wrong. It simply shows his prejudice against them and that he would never seek to treat their claims fairly.
I also don't consider isrealies as jews they are European coloniser
If only such an informal solution could be done.😢
My people are the Iceni, we originally come from Norfolk, that is our historical homeland and we will have it back. Our state has a right to exist and defend it's self.
There was never such thing as a "Norfolkian" people until we wanted our land back.
We would make much better use of that land than it's current residents.
🤡 🤡🤡🤡🤡
The Peel Commission was the first attempt at a Two State solution. It did not end well.
It was rejected by arabs bcoz of obvious reasons!!
Hitchens appears to understand the reality on the ground here much better than most European leaders.
They're called the 'forever wars' for a reason.
Yes, totally unsustainable. Give all Palestinians an Israeli passport, and allow them to VOTE, in this fabulous democracy of the middle east, at last. There is no need for Apartheid homelands.
Yeah the Palestinians have been trying to wipe out the Jews for decades and you expect Israel to hand one power to them and not expect a genocide in return? Not going to happen
Exactly! The only solution is South African solution
One secular state with equal rights for all. But some outside powers would have to force that on them, they are never going to get there on their own.
Mate....I appreciate your good intentions but clearly, you haven't understood the first thing about radical Islam and what role it plays in the lives of everyday Muslims especially in that part of the world
@@downtoearth5443 I do understand it is extremely unlikely as currently both the Israeli government and Hamas are dedicated to a river to the sea ultra nationalist genocidal mission.
I’m no fan of Islam or any religion, but you can’t blame this on Islam. Until Zionism took hold, Jews lived all over the Arab world and were generally viewed as good people.
If things are left to run their course, greater Israel will become a reality and Palestine will not even be able to pretend to exist.
The people will be ethnically cleansed, the ones that remain will continue to live as second class citizens.
Then it will be onto Syria and Jordan.
No one likes Syria, there has already been war there, so finding and excuse to “defend” Israel into Syrian territory shouldn’t be too hard.
Israel is an aggressively expansionist religious ethno nationalist state, which in its current form will not stop until its biblical empire is “restored”
The Arab countries are far from angels, but the ones that are ok with Israel are the client states of the USA, who do horrific things themselves.
@@tonedowne "Until Zionism took hold, Jews lived all over the Arab world"....... Mate, google " Anti-Jewish pogroms by Muslims" .
@@downtoearth5443radical ZIONISM is Nazism don't support and forget
Just wow.
“Square peg that didn’t fit into round hole 50 years ago still doesn’t fit.”
If only his brother was still around. We could hear some real insight.
He was less blinkered for sure
@@stephenchappell7512more blinkered you mean.
@@kashattack
Not at all as he could see
both sides of the argument
@@stephenchappell7512Yes. His side and the side of everyone who agreed with him.
Peter is also quite insightful. Poor man always was overshadowed by his brother
Very interesting point. This is why dividing a territory on etnic lines is not a good solution. It creates walls, enclaves, unreasonable borders between nations, splitting communitues from their natural regional centers they have been gravitating for centuries.
The most important question of today's politics is whether it is possible to create a functional, democratic, multiethnic country.
It is already happening. Israel has some 1.4millions Arabs citizens(mostly muslims) that are full participants in every aspect of Israeli society.
Israel doesn't want to be fully multiethnic. It wants to be a jewish country. That is why jews from Russia could easily become citizens and live there but palestinians that lived for generations on the territory are not allowed.
@@MadeTheSameyes it does, it states it clearly in its Declaration of Independence, clear as day. The right of return has nothing to do with this.
The malevolently sanctimonious refused to allow minority cultures in The Rainbow Nation to live separately in order to survive; the thousands upon thousands of white crosses in the country today can attest to that.
@KountKalergi2yes; there are examples through out the world: but in this case it is more difficult.
Over the years I find that I have moved away from the idea of a two state solution to one akin to that outlined by Hitchens above.
Absolut true
One state solution. Call it Canaan. arabs and jews have equal rights, equal laws ( not martial law for west bank arabs). And some level of reparations for land stolen from arabs. If it was one state and country the arabs wouldn't attack their own country and neither would the jews .
2 states system will not work for long.
of course, muslims see the 2 state idea as a path to a one state final solution
One option is for Israel to manage the West Bank and Gaza as territories, and for Israel to maintain security in both areas. For example, Puerto Rico is a territory of the United States.
A one-state solution is equalling as absurd because si long as Israel is defined as a Jewish state it can't be ever considered a real democracy because by virtue of its name, it presupposes the ethnic and religious superiority of one group, the Jews, over any other group of citizens. It's no different to segregation America which was defined as a white country where the white population were given more rights than other groups, such as the black population and the Native Americans. The only way for a one-state solution to work is for Israel to no longer be a Jewish state, but a full secular democracy, and that's never going to happen. We already see how Palestinian Israeli residents are treated simply because they're not Jewish
Jewish state means a country that Jews from all around the world can immigrate to.
All Israeli citizens have the same rights regardless of their religion.
@@emil2683Palestinians also should have right to return
The fact that Peter omits what happened to the Palestinian and the British civillians pre-1948 is shocking.
It was also not just Palestininians suffering. It was still at that point semi self induced as they fought jewish immigrants as well. Imagine if now Europe just expels all of the Immigrants they have taken from these countries ... how would you feel? THe fact that these guys quote their pain and suffering but never feel ashamed of the one they induced is hypocritical.
@@d4nkdesu Immigrants haven't come to countries with the intention to destroy a pre-existing society. Can you name an immigrant organisation with the explicit intention to expel the already existing population? The Zionists came with the intention to violently overthrow and replace the existing society.
That history has been Erasured by genocidal maniacs who follow a genocidal god whose genocides are bragged on in Genesis and Joshua from the Holey Bible.
tell us pleqse ?. It is probably so but on both sides to be sure
@@gordonspicer The Nakba- explusion of upto 800,000 Palestinians and then denial of return. The execution and bombing of British soldiers in the King David Hotel by Zionist terrorist militias.
Some problems have no solution.
Love Peter’s insights from his vast experience around the world.
Salam, Shlomo, Shalom, Peace.
The Israeli's & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Palestinian State Next To Israel, But God's Wrath Is Just Around The Corner.
@@omarlittle-hales8237 Salad-Malik-Comb. The Palestinians & Their Supporters, Will Say Anything Not To Have A Israeli State on this planet, But God's Wrath Is Already reigning down on them. Sad
@@omarlittle-hales8237 Yet the Palestinians have refused a state so many times..
Haha. How old are you?
I used to admire late Cristopher Hitchens until he started preaching War to end all wars in early 2000s. I liked to hear Peters insight in Russian and European politics especially last couple of years. Having seen the whole interview I can only say that - sometimes - people with a great insight are not great human beings. Peter Hitchens shows not only political bias and racial prejudice towards people that have been molested for decades - he implies that continuation of this horror is the only way forward because of a possibility that in a future Palestinian state an ellection could be won by Hamas or some other extremist option. Exstremist political options with a Mesianic agenda and The End of Days hopes win increasing number of wotes in Israel every year. Does that mean we should dismantel it out of fear they ll harm their sovereign neighbours? Again and again the brothers confirm when morality is at stake that There's a glitch in the Hitch...
'could' be won by Hamas. An election WOULD be won by Hamas, why else is Palestine the only country not to have had an election since 2006? Give me an answer, this is the only reason there hasn't been a Palestinian election since 2006.
The fact that you think peter hitchens is messianic, shows you need your head examined
@@daviddestefanis2989if the country had prosparity then there might not be a need for hamas
@@daviddestefanis2989 Netanyahu is constantly returning to power along with Naftali Bennet and Itamar Ben-gvir. These people are openly genocidal and anti arab yet Israelis keep voting for them in every election. By your logic, israelis cannot be trusted to run their country. The main difference is that one side gets the most cutting edge millitary tech and the other gets ethnically cleansed if they play by the rules.
one word to describe what is written above: Wrong, misleading and based on liable and lies. Hitchens is a smart intelligent realist who is not afraid to speak the truth that some people refuse to articulate.
Peter Hitchens' voice reminds me strongly of Christopher's.
I don't disagree with anything he says but there's an obvious follow up question at the end. People living side by side in an in formal peace...the question is do all those people living side by side have the same rights?
Interesting perspective. The counterpoint though is demographics - the Palestinians will eventually far outnumber the Jews given their birth rate. The Jews in Israel understand this fact implicitly and thus there is almost zero chance that a one state solution would be acceptable to them. Also the whole rationale for expelling the Palestinians from the borders of the newly formed Jewish state in 1948 (and thereby creating the Palestinian refugee problem) was to eliminate a potentially disloyal “fifth column” within the Jewish state. A one state solution will not come to pass if Israel has anything to say about it.
If the Palestinians will eventually far outnumber the Jews given their birth rate, I wonder where all the talk about a "Palestinian genocide" comes from. It would be the first genocide in history where the genocided people keeps growing in number...
Within Israel including Isrelui Arabs its birth rate is a very respectable over 2 which is far higher than in UK & OECD. The population within Israel is growing well each year and within about 10 years exected to be 15 Million. Yes ONe state is an impossibility !
Well said. The purpose of Israel is to be a safe haven for the Jews. But their decision to build Israel in historical Palestine was arrogant, ethnocentric and racist(keep in mind that white Jews were behind Zionism at its start).
@@abraxxas2013 - What is currently befalling the Palestinians of Gaza is genocide; they are being wiped off their land. Their land is being made inhabitable. Schools, hospitals, refugee camps, government buildings etc are being decimated.
The problem is the solution is not acceptable to either side, which is you need to each country as a separate joined nation and both sides want the religiously significant area's.
Indeed. It's a solution without agreement from either side.
Only the Palestinians reject it
The solution is completely acceptable to one side but isnt to the other.
If that was truly the case, Israel would have taken the temple mount many years ago...
the solution?? Howabout!!!
Palestines are equally given their own patch of dirt to govern for themselves.
Israelis are equally given their own patch of dirt to govern for themselves.
Jerusalem is made an international nation state with each of the 3 religious groups (Christian, Muslim and Hebrew) an equal say in its governing.
That would work.
3:22 The informal agreement does not work. Informal is just what makes these places a third world region. The solution is more like a cartesian method than a whatever works plan
The Palestinian state needs to be viable, contiguous and in turn prosperous. Which is not what Israel is prepared for.
Ok Peter, so what about a one state solution where everybody lives freely and equally? I don't see much enthusiasm for that in Israel, do you?
Then what is the point of Israel in the first place? A one state solution would mean that Jews won't have a safe home.
The chances of a second Holocaust happening is high without the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.
And also the Palestinians stated numerous times that their unwilling to have peace with Israel (They believe the whole of Israel is theirs and not just the West Bank).
hahahah, are you for real? what is the position of hamas palestinians re your above idea?
In prison for their heinous crimes like in any free and equal state. What part of a free and equal state don't you understand? It's not rocket science.@@danc6948
You have to look at other historic conflicts in the world where a long-running religious/racial/citizenship dispute has been ended, or if not ended, then substantially defused. A good example is Northern Ireland. You see that when this happens, support for extremists vanishes and they lose power. The likes of Hamas gain their power from intransigence on the other side.
Totally agree@@DavidArdittiComposer
One of the big issues that nobody wants to talk about is viability. Back before Zionism there were hardly any people living in this area. Just a few hundred thousand people. The reason for this is clear - it was desert. Now if you look at a map of the world divided into net exports of food and net importers of food you will see that the whole of the Middle East except Syria has a major problem. Most of the nations of the Middle East have allowed their populations to grow to unsustainable levels because they are reliant on oil to feed them - oil which is going to run out in the not too distant future. Israel imports a very high percentage of its food - but it can afford to do so because it is a high tech nation with strong exports and one of the highest GDP per capita in the world. Palestinians are propped up by charity from the West. It's really just on outsized refugee camp. It's a joke nation.
This is a really daft point of view vis-à-vis the current crisis. Long before the conflicts began, Palestine was well functioning Arab “country”…. Given their peace they will grow an economy according to their means and survive. The old Palestine had a thriving agro economy exporting food products to the Europe. Let them have their peace and they will build a society good enough for their own survival. Read about the old cities of Haifa, Jaffa, and Jerusalem before the 1940s. Thriving cities around the Middle East.
@@jonahsekakoni Yes, but the population has grown by 10x since then
@@jonahsekakoni This simply isn't true, historically.
1. Part of the reason why the British thought the Palestinians wouldn't react so strongly to Zionism, was because of the influx of wealth and capital they thought the relatively poor region would receive in the process. The Jews who had been moving there in the mid 1800's had been the ones who had brought new innovations in farming in the region, which increased the migration of Arabs into the region as well.
2. Part of the reason why it was so easy for Zionists to move into Palestine, even going back to the Ottoman Empire, was because Palestinians often didn't own their land. The landlords were mostly merchants from Egypt, Jordan, Syria etc, and according to Ottoman law, the Jews had to buy land from them in order to move there. So no "Old Palestine" wasn't thriving in the sense that you're saying.
3. Much of the problems of the Middle East, is not that it did not thrive previously, but that their political structure and more importantly their clerical class' resistance to secularism makes it too difficult to have a modern economy. A modern economy cannot coexist with a medieval feudal system. Yes, they can get wealthy off oil revenue, but that wealth will be poorly distributed and will not lead to investments in domestic enterprises.
...you realise Israel is propped up as well right? You should take a look at the annual funds they get.
@nonyabisness6306 What? You mean the $3.3bn a year they get from the US as part of Israels $488bn GDP?
Some people really aren't meant for public speaking
But there was an intifada before the formal peace treaties...
I'm an Israeli, he sounds like those who say 'oh, the good old days in the south (of the U. S. A) before the Civil War, there was less strife between slaves and owners, and they lived together'
Do you think that Arab citizens of Israel are analogous to chattel slaves? If not why pretend so?
Is anyone still proposing a 2-state solution?
I thought that idea was already dead.
All I needed to hear was “ the inhabitants of the West Bank” to understand. Palestinians that’s what they are not inhabitants, the amount of dehumanization is disgusting.
I’m surprised he didn’t get up start having a tantrum, accuse the interviewer of inviting him under false pretences and start requesting this video is not posted!
Take a map and look how small Israel is in comparison to the Arab states - Logically the Jews have a right to their own country could we please stop the nonsense and wake up, I am not saying I agree with what the governments of the world are up to but the basic question of whether the Jewish people have a right to their own country is a no brainer - we all have ours. And the history of the Palestine set up is unfortunate and was set up on purpose and the Arabs have so much land why can't they just use it and leave the Jewish people alone and stop being used as pawns in a war that will bring no resolution to anybody - AND STOP ALL THIS HATE
@KountKalergi2 Why is it that pro-Israel people so often sound like Nazis?
How do the Palestinians have so much land when Gaza has 2,000,000 Palestinians cramped in the area of a small narrow city? By 1949 Israel has taken over a large part of the projected Arab state allotted by the UN. They continued to annex the West Bank ever since. Please explain the so much land you’re talking about.
The Jewish people have a right to self determination and maybe even the right to a country, but the question becomes what will they do to realize those goals?
In order to create the small state you refer to, they had to forcibly steal Palestinian land and drive the Palestinian population that had lived there for centuries out of the territory, through violence. They then refused to let them return, and are still refusing even as they welcome jews from around the world.
Even now they deny political rights to roughly half the population between the Jordan and the sea, in order to maintain the identity of Israel as a Jewish state. It's the Israelis who cynically use Palestinians by torturing them until they resist, then arguing their resistance gives Israel a right to respond.
Not every group has a state (Sikhs, Kurds, Mormons) and I don't think Jews have the right to a state if this is how they behave.
@@cjzanders5430 And in 1946 the UN created trans-Jordan - a HUGE territory - which was for the Palestinians and other wandering Arabs. The Jews could move to the moon and the Palestinians would say that is their land.
Israel is a country made by British have you had that British ! IRA was formed beacause of British. Taiwan and Chinese today they got big tension beacause of British list goes on
Palestinians left Israel, now they want to come back. It's a bit dumb considering Israel is small considering the vast areas surrounding Israel and the rest of the world.
You aren't helping the zionist cause 😂😂😂😂
nope palestenians were forced out by conflict. the jews are kicked out by god from israel that is why you have the three oaths barring jews from occupying palestine
"Left"
White European Fake jew are immigranting in Palestine why can't real Palestinians
Exactly
Where there is a will there is a way
If only he'd convinced Rabin back in the day. He might still be alive.
When one of the two 'states' doesn't really exist, it's hard to come up with a real 'two state' solution. Israel is and always has been, from the day Joshua and Caleb crossed the Jordan, the other not so much. It's that simple.
What do you mean?...
When does a country really exist? What are the criteria, and what makes the criteria valid?
What you're saying is quite dumb, tbh... I don't think you understand the issue.
Regardless of whether Palestine existed as a literal state or just as a region, it was populated with Arab Palestinians long before Zionists ever started immigrating to the area and brutally driving them out with violence to create Israel (modern Israel if you like). The 2 state solution is meant to stop the violence-- who cares how "real" the state is to someone who's using biblical standards to measure that??
Plenty of states that are not "real" in the sense you mean have been successful... Belgium, Luxembourg, etc. are just as real as Palestine.
The 2 states idea is a solution to Israel's current apartheid reality. If you don't like the idea, then can I assume you support one state, with political rights for all Palestinians living between the river and the sea as well as all Jews? A right of return for Palestinian refugees as well as Jews?
Let us hope the native Americans do not want their land back
Another way to put it is the "Palestinian People" never existed. If you want to argue that a Palestinian identity exists now, fine, but it's grounded on nothing positive and instead the "values" of revenge and victimhood. There's no way to do the hard work of building a society based on pure negatives.
The damage is done...there is no two state solution.
The so-called Apartheid is Palestinian authority-made. To expect that people of two states will have the exact same rights and benefits despite belonging to two different countries are absurd outside anything less than a peaceful union.
Unique and helpful insights.
Another great living Briton
I’m hoping you are being sarcastic.
@@petercollier9073what’s wrong with Peter?
I don’t think Peter Hitchens is stable, balanced to give advice to anyone.
When you have one party claiming the Euphrates River to Nile River belong to them based on thousands of years old fairy tale book, what do you expect?
Don’t just tell us what won’t work. Tell us your solution.
Rather than an unworkable two-state solution, how about a five-state solution? Arabs can live in Israel (as long as they remain peaceful and law-abiding), Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. Jews can live in Israel (The Arab countries are pretty much Judenrein these days, but I guess we can deal with that...). Let Egypt have Gaza (as if they would want it...). The West Bank? Jordan was asked to stay out of the Six-Day War, but joined in and lost. Some games are played for keeps.
We can have a global solution. Let Jews live in any state they want. And let Israel be handed over to the natives of the land
Makes sense.
Except Egypt doesn't want Gaza and Jordan doesn't want the West Bank. Why? Because they see Palestinians as trouble-makers.
Is that before or after we sign over the occupied land in ukraine? playing for keeps and all.
How about a solution where Germany(who has given zero land to anyone) gets a Jewish state in their historic homeland and Palestine is free, River to sea.
Yet people think that the 2 state theory of Pakistan and India was a good idea, history has proven otherwise.
Has it? An imperfect solution. But alternative was preferable?
People from Southern Israel used to go to Gaza for the night life? Amazing.
what a smart man, explaining reality in simple terms.
Peter, I suggest you go back and watch your brother's multiple videos on how the "Israel's right to exist" notion, since its inception, has been used and abused to ever expand Israel's territory and/or remain being an occupying force over the Palestinians for decades. So, of course on those terms there cannot be a two state solution. Different approach, same conclusion.
There is a 2 State solution. Jews get Israel and Palestinians get the state of Jordan. Jordan is already a Palestinian state.
When ever disenfranchised people start to get a little bit of power, they act as their oppressors did.
Jews were kicked out of their home in Europe and were told to leave. They created Israel and treated the Palestinians the way they were treated in Europe. It’s a vicious cycle
Christopher Hitchen's ideas about how Israel has no right to exist, and how its birthday should arguably not be celebrated, (like christopher hitchen's regret that female comedians are often jewish), has nothing to do with Peter Hitchen's very reasonable point that there was less violence before Oslo
This is wrong on so many ways.
1. Whether or not Israel likes the idea of giving up land it illegally occupies is irrelevant under international law. One's security interests does not justify the amseizure and annexation of land, whether it is done by Russia in Ukraine or Israel in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
2. Israel scuppered the Two State Solution- Benjamin Netanyahu bragged about it. Since the Oslo accords, Israel has increased the settler population in the occupied territories from 50,000 to over 700,000. Taking land kills the 2SS more than violence.
3. With the collapse of the USSR and over a million Jewish immigrants to Israel, Israel no longer needed to permit Palestinians work permits in Israel to carry out the labouring jobs. Peace plans did not remove the economic necessity of cheap Palestinian labour; cheap labour from the USSR did.
4. Gazans elected Hamas because they resisted occupation while Fatah tried to negotiate and got nowhere. If you don't want militants to be elected, work wirh the people trying to negotiate.
This whole clip is such garbage.
One state with protected rights for all only solution probably will take a generation+ to get there but it's possible.
You can come up with 1,000 reasons why it will not work. I only need one reason as to why 2 states is the only way...there is no other realistic way to solve this problem.
yeah but it must be done proportionately so majority of the territory must be palestenian
The South African solution is now the only solution, whether both sides like it or not.
Which has turned into a disaster for South Africa. The white population controlled most of the wealth but the South African economy has simply not been able to generate enough wealth since apartheid ended. Similarly, the difference in living standards between Israelis and Palestinians is extreme. If both groups decide to work together fairly, the current disparities would be unacceptable.
First off, glad lots of you could understand his mumbling. Secondly & most importantly, these two groups have been killing each other for decades, such a shame they couldn't become civilized, compromise & move on peacefully!!!!.