Hi guys! I'm an author on this paper! Andrew Moore was approached by the CRG because Abu Hureyra was known to span the YD boundary. When analysis revealed impact proxies, Moore revisited prior interpretations of the site such as a burn layer he previously thought was odd but attributed to cooking fires. There are 5 papers on Abu Hureyra. Bunch et al. 2012, Moore et al. 2020 and Moore et al. 2023a, 2023b, 2023c. There are more than 120 papers supporting the YDIH and about 70 criticising it. All can be read on the comprehensive YDIH bibliography on Cosmic Tusk.
the lack of shocked quartz has been the main whipping stick of the old guard. so imo, this is probably a seminal paper to acceptance of YDIH. congratulations!
@Eyes_Open I wrote a 50,000 word thesis that serves as a rebuttal, though without addressing it head on for the most part. You can read it on Graham Hancocks website. Tere is also a comprehensive rebuttal directly addressing their paper line by line currently in press in a peer reviewed journal, of which I am also a coauthor.
Earth Science Reviews, where the 'comprehensive rebuttal' is published, refused to give us more than 5000 words to respond to their 96000 word ad hominem
@littlefish9305 When history looks back on this affair it will be considered a seminal paper, but because the shock evidence we see at the YDB is essentially a new form, we still have an uphill battle for widespread acceptance.
This is where I come to when I want to listen to two intelligent, funny people talking and discussing interesting topics. Half the time I've no idea what you're talking about, the other half I'm so fascinated by you two talking, that I can't listen. 😅 I'm always pleased though when I get a notification. And I know that any comment helps the channel grow. I'm sorry I have nothing more intelligent to contribute to the discussion though.
There is not one unintelligent viewpoint when talking about the universe. Plus, I don't get the hype of trying to understand it all. Knowledge is not a thing that keeps me up at night 😂
You guys are the best. I can and do watch Standing with Stones over and over again. Great for both inspiration and relaxation. Best natural ASMR documentary. Maybe it’s the bagpipes! Please keep doing what you’re doing.
Ah, yes, science at work. As a PhD chemist, I’ve been involved in or spectator to a variety of controversies and the factions, papers, talks and personalities involved. I’m reminded of a Max Planck quote “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
I mean, yes and no. Tesla didn't give credence to Einstein's work on relativity. He didn't even believe in electromagnetic wave theory or electrons. Curious for someone working as an electrical engineer and attempted radio maker 😂🤣 A fairly strong consensus within the community of physicists was reached on relativity in Einstein's lifetime.
Prof Vance Haynes said that the megafauna were all extinguished in less than a century. If true, that is not predation, as some claim, that is something sudden, like an impact. R
@@dustydesert1674 When did the mammoths go extinct? In all regions at the same time? Extinctions were happening thousands of years apart for some species as per current understanding.
As a retired geologist, I have worked in impact structures and re-stratigraphic sediments with mineralization and have also learned the trade in the very glacial domains of Scandinavia, Greenland, and New Zealand, a hypothesis saying that globally affected geological and astronomical events is nothing new, there has been deep correlations of such events, like the Tunguska event around 1908. One of my professors in paleontology, Björn Kurtén, from Åbo, voiced ideas that interstadial changes did affect our forefathers, proven by Svante Pääbo et al. Why is this a discussion, meteorites and vulcanism has through all of the planet's history altered the life conditions. Look at the Lockne crater southeast of Östersund; there exists a fossil of an octopus getting a part of the meteorite in its head. Also, during the Ice Age, Sahara was a flourishing Eden, now dried out. What happened to those animals and humanoids. Something happened in Syria during the same period, younger Dryas, forcing a new way of life. A correlation between the dry out of the Saharas and changes in the levant might been ONE of the causes, astroblemes another. I people fights about such, then we are in a bad way. Nils-Axel Mörners Gothenburg theory about the earth magnetics might be a clue, though he was wrong at times and right in others.
@@christianbuczko1481 "Was a Nuclear Holocaust" it created the trinitite glass, the glass is found in a area of 6k sq miles, a f4000degree asteroid can't foot it with a Million Degree Nuke . so fgullible can't you think for yourself Dude
@@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer who said 30mil years?? I was referring to an event which left dessert glass on the surface of the dessert, which means its very recent, as in less than 12,000 years old, possibly from the younger dryas events infact. The reason for that idea is that the dessert wasnt always a dessert, 12,000 years ago it was green, meaning there would be evidence of carbon, and the fact the glass is found on the surface, not from deep down also suggests its relatively recent.
I'm certainly not an expert but my understanding about 'shocked' quartz is that the intense pressure wave actually shocked the crystal structure of quartz to a high-pressure form; quartz occurs naturally in several crystal forms (technical names) depending on the T/P* situation of formation. Hope that makes sense. * temperature/pressure
I've been learning a bit of geology and there are so incredibly many forms of silicate rocks... I had to check, shocked quartz is high pressure but not high temp. Discovered during atomic testing, found in impact craters but also caused by lightning strikes so you also need mineral evidence to confirm impact events.
Once again 9:37 a good discussion, punctuated by your signature sense of humor. I really enjoy this channel in the midst of the kitchen middens of some individual’s flights of fancy. The mention of Abu Hureyra really caught my attention. Years ago I took an upper division course in Soil Science which I found unexpectedly fascinating. Before we got to the nitty gritty of soil composition, we spent the exploration of several chapters on the development of agriculture. One of the sites they focused on was Abu Hureyra and it’s proximity to the species of wild grains that became domesticated, although stands of wild ancestors i.e emmer and einkorn still exist in the area. The text book was quite old even when I took the course because the village site still existed on its ancient location. I still have that book. It was well regarded at the time and quite carefully written to avoid any leaps of the imagination. And as a result of the course I think anyone doing archeological digs would benefit from even a bit of soil science.
Mr. George Howard Dr. Allen West Dr. Malcolm LeCompte Dr. Ted Bunch Dr. Christopher Moore Dr. James Kennett Dr. Richard Firestone Dr. Wendy Wolbach Mr. Marc Young Dr. James Wittke Dr. Douglas Kennett Dr. Adrian Melott Mr. Adrienne Stich Dr. Albert C. Goodyear Dr. Andrei Kurbatov Dr. Andrew M.T. Moore Dr. Andrew Parnell Dr. Al Smith Dr. William Topping Dr. Brendan Culleton Dr. Brian Thomas Dr. Carl P. Lipo Mr. Charles Kinzie Dr. Chris C.R. Allen Dr. Chris Mercer Mr. Clay Swindell Dr. David Ferraro Dr. Dale Batchelor Dr. David H. Krinsley Mr. David Kimbel Dr. Eric K. Richman Some of the amazing Researchers who make up the Comet Research Group - Very encouraged to see you feature this paper, as I know they work so hard and justly deserve attention! CONGRATULATIONS on your New Milestone, more encouraging signs... amidst some of the madness that is enveloping the world - even of Our Past and History itself.
@@swirvinbirds1971 I.e., never trust any authors of any papers? All papers are published by people demonstrating their hypothesis. The people to distrust in this instance are Boslough, Surovell, and Holliday, who are actively destroying their hard-earned reputations. Surovell is still a Clovis-firster. Boslough has become obsessed and does no real work anymore. The real mystery is why. Can it all be Hancock Derangement Syndrome?
I will continue to keep an open mind since I have no expertise in this field. I will wait for experts to go over this paper and hash it out. I love this about science.
I actually hate this about science. because many times someone gets the correct answer the first time, but (especially now in modern academia as most "scientists" are just beauracrats masquerading as scientists... and have no interest in truth seeking. instead they are much more consumed with reputation, career, and money) some butt-hurt "scientist" goes about not disproving the first paper, but merely casting doubt upon it by claiming "method inconsistenty" or some other bs. never actually showing why their paper is wrong, but merely throwing enough shade to cause an inkling of doubt because their methodology wasn't 100% all encompassing, or that another way to check something may exist. the entire point is to just keep someone else from getting recognition
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, usually it's a duck!!! Why the vitriolic abhorrent opposition to what the facts are indicating, all the ducks line up in a neat little row if you just will look at the obvious evidence, then it all makes sense, Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one, that's what we go with in science, what is most likely, and a series of air-burst impacts with a few actually making contact with the ice sheets explains so much, the heat paradox of the former ice age, the massive influx of fresh melt-water, the plummeting of global temps due to the shutting down of the "great ocean conveyor system", shocked quartz and nano-diamonds, Carolina Bays impact proxies that fan out from Saginaw Bay, the Greenland impact crater which has almost exactly 13000 years of new unfractured ice and snow above it. The black mat found at countless sites all over the world dating right to 12,800 ybp, the end of Clovis, and so many other cultures across the globe. Abrupt abandonment of site previously occupied for millennia, evidence of catastrophic floods worldwide, but especially in the American west. So many points that all line up to a massive series of impacts that likely occurred in 2 distinct periods, one around 12800 ypb and a second around 11600 ybp, but for 1200 years there may have been frequent impacts, but with the 2 meltwater pulses it may point to 2 significant impact events, the last of which was around 9600 BCE. So much evidence to dispute with no alternative explanations. It boggles the mind why someone would continue to be so adamant about disputing this "theory" I think at this point it should be accepted as actual fact and universally studied to find out the how, why, when, and wheres etc... so we can properly prepare to defend ourselves from the next one, why is this so hard for people to understand and accept???
Denial of one’s life long education starting to fracture, transitions into ideology, we can observe the evidence of this popping up all over the world…
I don't understand either. It is clearly in mythology, I don't know how everyone missed it. The Mesoamericans sacrificed humans to the Feathered Serpent, from the most recent meteor stream's radiant, so that it would not take the Sun away, again, for long periods of time, Impact Winters. The incredulousness is so persuasive that I have had to research Psychology to understand denial. I am just about convinced it is a genetic memory of the traumas. We know the story : The Shinning Hero fighting the Dragon to save the Maiden. It is in Little Red Riding hood also, as the Woodsman cuts out of the Wolf, the grandma, mom, and the kid, symbolizing the Ages of Man, or The Suns of America.
They still have hard time admitting they were wrong about cities and people in the Amazon. Impact modeling with multiple meteors made the most sense to me.
I postulate that there is an agenda, perhaps unrecognized, that wishes to believe that man is in charge and has full control. Extraterrestrial events, for the most part, are out of our control.
One of your best, guys. Just subscribed. Being Scots, I thought that the Younger Dryas was named (at least in part) after a member of the Younger family, famous brewers of fine ales, and creators of the Younger Botanic Gardens at Benmore. Hmmm, maybe I now need to start hunting for the Older Botanic Gardens....
In North America, 12,900 years ago also marks a time of human cultural change-from very large Clovis blade technology to Folsom tools. The changeover is associated with a change in the size of hunted mammalian prey & final disappearance of megafauna other than bison. The much disdained Solutrean hypothesis, though, proposed very similar events as the recent claims you discuss about the YDIH-widespread forest fires and disappearance of the proposed Solutreans who are proposed to have reached North America across the ice-congested North Atlantic from the extended coastline of Pleistocene France/Spain after around 19,000 ya. As long as we keep talking about the possibilities, we’ll keep extending the research to find out more about the wonders of the human race.
Yes, too many Flint hand tools, found from 12,000 years ago to 33,000, & then a SEVER GAP OF 100,000'S of years we find a unknappable assortment of Quarzatite; (Chalcedony) ones?
There is no direct connection between Solutreans and the North American Clovis industry. However, the 5000 years between their invention in Europe and Clovis points turning up in North America is plenty of time for people carrying the invention to migrate incrementally all the way across Asia and then into North America, bringing their tool industry with them. If true, it will take a century of archaeology to prove it.
@caroletomlinson5480 = _"...the proposed Solutreans who are proposed to have reached North America across the ice-congested North Atlantic from the extended coastline of Pleistocene France/Spain after around 19,000 ya. "_ - - - - - I understand what you are saying, all except for the fact that there is no evidence to support your claim, not even DNA.
@@caroletomlinson5480 Laughable? Less likely than independent invention, but still possible. What is laughable is people in North America sitting on Solutrean industry for 5000 years and then beginning to use it after it has disappeared from Europe.
Check out Antonio Zamora's youtube videos on this. According to his work, more than one comet fragment hit the Laurentide icesheet around the Great Lakes in the USA. This impact led to the formation of the Carolina Bays and Nebraska Rainwater Basins (secondary ice bolder impacts) in the USA and wiped out the North American mega fauna.
@@sciptick Incorrect. Check out his videos. It gets into age dating as well and the incorrect procedures that have been used in dating. A lot has to do with the overturn of the crater lip and where samples have been obtained.
@@justmenotyou3151 thank you. people don't realize that you cannot date ice boulder impacts by soil date testing alone! Zamora is correct and the YDIH group cannot handle admitting they got it WRONG.
@@sciptick I am sorry, but the disappearance of all megafauna in North America and the evidence of tens of thousands of craters radiating outward from a relatively common source is FAR too coincidental to be discounted.
@@qui-gonjay2944 - Solar events are brief, like the last one that only effected the atmosphere for a few days. Full solar cycles last from 9-14 years; solar maximum lasts about 2-ish years. The Younger Dryas period lasted from about 200-400 years.
My own take on the Younger Dryas climate change is a Comet (or loosely held assemblage of debris) was pulled apart in the earth’s gravity field with many pieces raining down across a global swath. The resulting platinum, iridium, micro spheres, micro diamond, deposits combined with global fire storms in the same strata marks the impact event that triggered the collapse of the AMOC water current that keeps Northern Europe warm and thereby greatly reduces ice that reflects solar radiation (a self perpetuating cold that continued until the AMOC was restored 1000 years later.
No he does not. He ignores dating work, has an ejecta curtain that dwarfs even the Chicxulub crater, has never even shown an impactor can create a perfect mathematical ellipse, yet alone the bays themselves show everything from wind migration (GPR imaging of Herdron Bay) to undisturbed sediments under the bays showing no impact formation. The Geomodels has some really good videos on the Carolina Bays. Curious Being, although I disagree with her Ancient lost civilization stuff, also has a good video about the Carolina Bays.
@@swirvinbirds1971 I think the minimal work performed on the raised rims is consistent with his dating modeling. The ice is a different beast from the rocks outskirting Chixulib, thus, the wider curtain cannot be discounted for this reason, its cannonball trajectories. Zamora does some field work on the wind erosion proposed by Prince in river beds that lends to his consistency as well, but, the issue is dynamic, despite this aspect of statics where the center of the target is dismissed. Is thatore willy nilly than true recorded history of the outlying areas? There is an enormous amount of shared consistency in the alignments in the central regions, so, why they are called Carolina Bays and not Georgia Bays? Pointing to an energy equation that seems to be a singular blast rather than spread out has the center of the target in its sights, I think. Accounting is not all discounnting.
@@RobertMStahl His dating modeling? He is a computer science guy with no expertise in the field and in no way a Geologist. Minimal work? Lots of dating work has been done. What's minimal is dating work that would agree with Zamora of which there is none. We have impact ejecta curtains on the Mars ice cap and they are nowhere near the size of this proposed ejecta curtain in relation to the crater and Mars has a much thinner atmosphere. Btw they are called different things in different areas and their morphology changes as well. In Maryland, they are called Maryland basins. Within the Delmarva Peninsula, they and other coastal ponds are also called Delmarva bays. The word Carolina Bays evolved in papers studying the Bays in Carolina.
@@RobertMStahl lots of work have been done on the sand rims and the fact that they migrate. Dating work on the sand rims show bay migration. You can find these same raised sand rims on Thermokarst Lakes as well.
Basic science fan/average Joe. Maybe due to the fact of watching The Why Files or reading other publications, I find myself to be a fan of the YDIH. To me, it just makes sense.
I grew up in South Carolina USA, and your discussion just reminded me of the thousands of half-mile or mile-wide shallow craters of the costal low-lands there, called "Carolina Bays". From the ground, you just think they are swamps and earth berms; but from an airplane survey, like in the 1930s first aerial pictures, they quickly stand out as shallow impact craters, with debris in them dated at 12,500 years old (when rocks or ice boulders the size of big buildings fell from the sky).
One of the best recent indie prehistory news pods out there if not, the best. And all thanks to a couple of bumbling old tech fogeys! Who wouldve thought
Hi guys, great talk. I have a background in historic geology, though being more of a generalist then a specialist. I've always favored the impact hypothesis, based on the evidence presented. To me, another aspect is the number of extraterrestrial impacts Earth has experienced. It's more then just a few. In a way it's like extinction events. Most know of the "Big 5" extinction events, which leaves out the largest of all, the Great Oxygenation Catastrophe that occurred around 2.5 billion years ago. Plus there are other events, like the Chesapeake Bay Bolide, which likely contributed to the Eocene-Oligocene Extinction about 33 million years ago, and gave the U.S. it's largest impact crater. Many are unaware of that impact, the immense crater it formed, and the related extinction.
Thank you guys for discussing this hypothesis, this one could be coming home, please look at the black Matt layer, it could be very significant, fringe/ citizen science can on occasion have relevance subject to scientific peer review naturally.
For me there are lessons here. It’s amazing that the evidence for something that must of been so unimaginably violent has been so easy to miss and is still controversial. One lesson is that the clues may be difficult to establish. The other lesson is that once you start stepping on toes, even professionals can act in ways that are inexcusable.
Great video. Thanks for explaining the name, Younger Dryas, too. Curious, then, why the flower was named that, I ran into a bunch of Greek mythology with several characters cited but most depicting him as a spectacular warrior. Which makes sense if you're a tough little flower growing on glaciated terrain.
FYI You can order extra 100K plaques once you get to 100K, You pay for the extras. Some people have them at home and in their recording studio or one RV channel said he gave a plaque to his Mom, Dad and an Aunt along with one at home and one at his work.
There's a formula to give an age range to moon craters based on how many smaller craters have formed within them, it's very low resolution compared to our modeling of Earth's history. Maybe rovers could attempt to "match" craters with mineral analysis in the future though, which could in turn make the crater dating formula more accurate... very cool to think about
I have to say that as an archaeologist, I have always preferred "all of the above." All of the various "explanations" have some sound reasons for thinking they may hold some support. Also, there is the recent impactite discovery in Chile that is about the right age.
Meteor or not, the YD was definitely a global catastrophe that had people everywhere transitioning from good food (big game essentially) to much lower quality food: mollusks in Europe, acorns in North Africa (causing a horrible epidemic of cavities) and grass, almost literally "grass" (that's what cereals are), in the Fertile Crescent from Sudan to the Zagros. Places like Ireland saw their climate radically change from modern temperatures to Greenland-like ones in a matter of months. Some sort of catastrophe it was definitely. If it was indeed caused by a meteorite or comet impact, for which there is at least some serious evidence, I lean towards but unsure.
Read The Comet Research Group Publications, it is assuredly space fall proxies covering 1/3 of the globe. There were hippo's in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula just prior.
How do you explain the warming of the Southern Hemisphere while the temperature of the Northern Hemisphere dropped? A change in the "Atlantic meridional overturning circulation" can easily explain both conditions and is something that we may be facing again in the not too distant future. With the disruption of the circulation, the Gulf Stream will cease bringing warm water north nd cause significant cooling.
@@MossyMozart - Not sure, it's something I was unaware of before you asked. But after a cursory search I found that a 2021 paper on moa paleo-ecology in NZ (Richard N Holdaway, "Palaeobiological evidence for Southern Hemisphere Younger Dryas and volcanogenic cold periods") seems to contradict the previous papers (Kaplan 2010 and Carlson 2013) that claimed that there was a warming instead (based on glacial retreat in a key paleoclimate research site also in NZ). Per the moa ecology paper, NZ experienced cooling for all the YD period, just as Europe. Anyway, the meteor and the oceanic stream system shift are not in contradiction: a meteor could hardly cause a thousand-years-long climate shift like that... but it could devastate some glaciers pouring massive amounts of cold freshwater into the North Atlantic and radically disrupting the AMOC (Gulf Stream system). The persistance of this short ice age clearly indicates that it was not just the meteor and maybe it would have happened anyhow without it, that the North American ice shelf suddenly pouring into the North Atlantic was the real cause of the YD. However this pouring may have been triggered by a meteor anyhow.
@@MossyMozart "How do you explain"... Maybe the global climate is a _complicated subject,_ often involving counterintuitive effects? Big events often produce big changes that cause further big changes, some of which might be in ocean circulation. Anybody pretending to know all about how climate works is visibly pretending, and maybe wishing. Wishing is incompatible with science. Stop wishing.
thank you. If the scientists, who studied those things thoroughly have such different opinions on 'what really happened' (they even fight eachother!), I don't feel bad about having my own opinions 😊
I like pre-history. Once you have studied most of what there is to know about written histories from the Persian Empire to the British Empire there is nothing new left to learn except pre-history.
I imagine it’s passing through a comet tail. In Earth high altitude, like the plasma burn in a pulverised coal blasted furnace. That is in constant intense glow. Being in Power station experience . The evidence logically backs this even stronger hypothesis.
I would welcome a session about Tim Rowe's securely-dated 37kyo Hartley mammoth site. Everybody seems just as afraid to mention it as they are the comet strike.
One of the lead scientists on the CRG is Firestone - very appropriate. Victor Clube and Bill Napier and their book Cosmic Serpent opened many eyes to the possibility of impact events affecting myths and history. Melting huge volumes of ice at zero degrees centigrade to water at zero degrees centigrade takes a lot of energy and explaining the heat input for the melt water pulse at that time is difficult to explain but impacts are a potential way to achieve that result.
Liked and subscribed. Excellent discussion. Interesting the effects this event had on the earth and human civilization. More so what would be the consequences should this happen again? Excellent video.
So many channels want a like and subscribe at the very beginning of the video, before you have seen what the video holds. And for those who are first time viewers of the channel. It is absurd to like or subscribe, when you haven’t seen the video and don’t know if you like or agree with the content, which may lead you to a subscription.
Randall Carlson is not attached to Hancock, as some might imply. They intersect in theories, but differ in others. The Comet Research group is not attached to Carlson. Intersection does not imply cloning or mirroring as bedfellows. I don't agree with everything anyone theorizes as a whole, even when the bits and bobs have evidence. Lumping the outliers into a category to chastise, only shows your personal limitations to learn new things. Science eventually chastises the chastisers. Thanks for bring up some new information to some, and extant information to myself. Well lit.
@@TGBurgerGamingCarlson IS NOT A SCIENTIST. He is an ARCHITECT. Turn off Randall Carlson and turn on Nick Zentner to learn how Randall is a fool or simply a con man.
A comet's tail is not going to cause any damage to Earth. It's just widely dispersed dust. Neither would it produce some of the items you were talking about like shocked quartz and microspherules. Those would be the result of an actual collision.
the remnants of comet encke have laid down debris and dust in an earth crossing orbit which the earth still encounters today. some of that "dust" is substantial and threatening to life on earth. bolide airbusts produce extreme pressure and temperatures many times hotter than the sun.
I may be behind a bit, but they do not seem to consider the possible impact site on the N end of Greenland, still covered in ice now, but drains out impact-related material. Can't recall the paper now, but these guys don't seem to have seen that?
If rye was a viable crop during the YD , just imagine those poor people having to drink Canadian whiskey for a thousand years. The suffering! And I'm Canadian by the way. Love your channel and her's a single malt to 100,000.
There's a large impact crater in northwest Greenland that was discovered a few years ago. It's covered by the ice sheet, but it's near the edge. With the limited research that's been done so far, they think it's a fairly young crater. It's possible that it's an impact crater from the younger dryas period, but no one knows at this point in time.
Eastern canada, Greenland and the great lakes have always looked like an impact site when you factor in ice and geology. The asteroid impact mission showing how common it is for those bodies to be loosely connected collections of smaller objects also means you can't assume single impact sites for every impact. Thats now statistically impossible.
At the moment there is only correlation, not causation. It is like asking, what caused the megadrought that ended the Assyrian Empire? If there was an actual megadrought.
I find it very satisfying how this new theory landed right in the middle of the two extreme positions on the younger dryas matter. It is not not an impact and it is also not ancient civilizations. It is however and impact with a profound impact on beginnings of modern humanity. In the end no one was fully right. And they weren’t fully wrong either. Very scientific. 🤓
@@MossyMozart as I understand it, it is now a scientific theory, as it is backed up by empirical research. It would be a hypothesis, if it was merely an empirically testable assumption. In this case, empirical evidence has been tested, repeatedly as I understand, and the results are quite specifically conclusive. Ps. Let me just add here that of course none of this lets the wild pseudo history theorists off the hook. It just appears a hypothesis that was basis for their expanding conjectures turned out to be repeatedly proven, ergo, true until proven wrong.
@@jakobfromthefence The end-Pleistocene comet strike is well-established. Still totally open is whether that caused the cold spell, by itself or in combination with local phenomena. That makes YDIH still no more than a hypothesis, and one that will probably take decades to settle.
@@jakobfromthefence - There is also empirical evidence that shows a global disaster did _not_ happen. Why would we have so much evidence for the global Chicxulub disaster from 65,000,000 YBP, but NOT have a consensus on the evidence for a supposed global disaster from only 13,000 YBP? It is illogical.
i started with the amazing randall carlson podcasts and delved further and see the weight of the evidence surely means catastrophic geocosmic impact with comet fragments. and a side issue, i see a graph of ice ages shows we may be tipping towards another. that's why i personally put the danger of warming climate down the list of earthly and human perils.
Possible craters have been found in several places in Canada. They appear shallow as you would expect in these circumstances. I read the papers that mentioned this years ago but I think it was Firestone and West et al.
@@donhillsmanii5906 everyone please look up Antonio Zamora's channel and watch his content, he explains all of this perfectly with his glacier ice impact hypothesis.
Pole shift, CME and comets may all be part of the same phenomena . Maybe the magnetosphere does not just weaken during pole shift, perhaps for a moment, it actually attracts comets and meteors while also being hit with plasma waves from sun. We will soon find out. Suspicious Observer is on TH-cam, if you don't already know, highly recommend.
There is a crater in Greenland, but it's dated to 50 odd mya. What impact mechanism would cause a cooling for so long and just as quick warming at the end?
Dating on Hiawatha is far from secure. It amounts to wishful thinking by a some who wish the YD-coincident impact were not proven, and wish that proof depended on a connection to Hiawatha.
Comet STREAM: A large comet in the process of fracturing into much smaller, disparate pieces. Imagine thousands of Tunguskas (+/- an order of magnitude) in the space of a few days.
If it were a comet similar to Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, it may have broken up into large icy masses. Ice melted in our atmosphere leaving rocks and dust which spread around our planet. heating the earth and starting fires. Following the fires, the atmosphere would be cooled by the smoke and clouds of the condensing water vapor. Consequently there may not have been pieces of rocks large enough to survive entry into the atmosphere and leave large impact sites.
Cosmic impact such as a polar reversal like what we are experiencing now. Geology supports this theory but first, we see dramatic variations in weather.
Exactly how confused am I? What I read and saw on TV was that the Younger Dryas was caused by an enormous amount of comet debris which rapidly melted the glaciers at the end of the last Ice Age. When ice was locked up in glaciers, ocean levels were much lower and many large cities were on those ancient coastlines. A sudden global ice melt might have flooded cities around the world, resulting in stories of a "global" flood (found in cultures around the world) when it was just a sudden rise in sea levels. A LOT of exciting archeological work is now centered off the current ocean coasts and they are finding cities out there. If this was something which happened more than once, it would explain why the underground city of Derinkuyu in Turkey was built...going beneath the surface to escape catastrophic debris falling from the sky. This (and the research cited) says the comet debris started the Ice Age. I want to stay with science but everything we know about ancient civilizations is being overturned by recent discoveries of cities (Göbekli Tepe for example) which existed long before they were previously assumed.
I can add another few points into the mix. If we look at lacustrine and some terrestrial records from Chukotka in northeastern Russia and also parts of the Brooks range, we see also very limited evidence of a Younger Dryas Event at all. See Vyse et al. 2020. Also significant pollen work by Anderson and Lohzkin.
Everything that's not big enough to punch a hole right through a mile thick ice shield will not leave a distinctive crater. Much of the energy doesn't reach the bedrock and therefore doesn't modify it as much as it happens in usual crater building. Meltwater caused by the impact heat will damage newly created, shallow craters where the impactos just barely got through the ice. And last but not least: Meltwater on the end of the glaciation washes away even more evidence.
Hi Guys, are you aware of the amazing series of TH-cam videos by Dr Martin Sweatman surveying and criticising the ENTIRE YDIH scientific literature up to about three years ago? Here is the link to the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLftb0lOpSe9PvJhFKSueZV9Wrz4g1qRkr.html In this series Dr Sweatman is sharply critical of the scientific methodologies employed by the YDIH critics. I don't have the detailed scientific and statistical training required to assess what he says in detail but it seemed rather compelling to me. No coverage of the topic is complete without a look at this material, imho!
I just read an article on this and they said it was probably a comet about 80km wide that broke up into many smaller fragments. They should be able to reverse the trajectory by trying to align where the proposed air bursts occurred but also what evidence in terms of impact proxies are going to be found if a lot of the initial explosions happened over ice sheets. How is the evidence going to washout once the ice melts its a tough one to crack but if they could align the trajectory they could even find the remnants of the comet still circling the Earth so they can be properly identified.
comet encke. Victor Clube and Bill Napier published some very good books on it, they argue there are some big chunks left in the taurid meteor stream. interestingly the perihelion of dwarf planet Sedna was near the YD and is due back in 2076. yikes! could disruption of the kuiper belt by Sedna have produced comet encke?
I have never looked up why the Younger Dryas was called that. nor did I know there was an Older Dryas. I had just assumed (the danger of doing that is constantly re-enforced) that it was named after a couple of scientists named Younger and Dryas who first noticed it in the geologic record.
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Hi guys! I'm an author on this paper!
Andrew Moore was approached by the CRG because Abu Hureyra was known to span the YD boundary. When analysis revealed impact proxies, Moore revisited prior interpretations of the site such as a burn layer he previously thought was odd but attributed to cooking fires.
There are 5 papers on Abu Hureyra. Bunch et al. 2012, Moore et al. 2020 and Moore et al. 2023a, 2023b, 2023c.
There are more than 120 papers supporting the YDIH and about 70 criticising it. All can be read on the comprehensive YDIH bibliography on Cosmic Tusk.
the lack of shocked quartz has been the main whipping stick of the old guard. so imo, this is probably a seminal paper to acceptance of YDIH. congratulations!
I would like to see a comprehensive answer to the comprehensive refutation paper.
@Eyes_Open I wrote a 50,000 word thesis that serves as a rebuttal, though without addressing it head on for the most part. You can read it on Graham Hancocks website. Tere is also a comprehensive rebuttal directly addressing their paper line by line currently in press in a peer reviewed journal, of which I am also a coauthor.
Earth Science Reviews, where the 'comprehensive rebuttal' is published, refused to give us more than 5000 words to respond to their 96000 word ad hominem
@littlefish9305 When history looks back on this affair it will be considered a seminal paper, but because the shock evidence we see at the YDB is essentially a new form, we still have an uphill battle for widespread acceptance.
Congrats on 80k, gents. In my opinion, you should have at least 2 million subscribers
This is where I come to when I want to listen to two intelligent, funny people talking and discussing interesting topics.
Half the time I've no idea what you're talking about, the other half I'm so fascinated by you two talking, that I can't listen. 😅
I'm always pleased though when I get a notification. And I know that any comment helps the channel grow.
I'm sorry I have nothing more intelligent to contribute to the discussion though.
There is not one unintelligent viewpoint when talking about the universe.
Plus, I don't get the hype of trying to understand it all. Knowledge is not a thing that keeps me up at night 😂
@@deathbydeviceable Exactly!
Brazilian geologist here.
Love your channel guys!
You guys are the best. I can and do watch Standing with Stones over and over again. Great for both inspiration and relaxation. Best natural ASMR documentary. Maybe it’s the bagpipes! Please keep doing what you’re doing.
Wow, thank you! We'll do our best!
Ditto. I enjoy the music in Standing with Stones
It was the first real, comprehensive, and accessible investigation :)
Ah, yes, science at work. As a PhD chemist, I’ve been involved in or spectator to a variety of controversies and the factions, papers, talks and personalities involved. I’m reminded of a Max Planck quote “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
I mean, yes and no.
Tesla didn't give credence to Einstein's work on relativity.
He didn't even believe in electromagnetic wave theory or electrons.
Curious for someone working as an electrical engineer and attempted radio maker 😂🤣
A fairly strong consensus within the community of physicists was reached on relativity in Einstein's lifetime.
Ouch, I hope you overcome your extensive academic brainwashing. Not many do.
Prof Vance Haynes said that the megafauna were all extinguished in less than a century.
If true, that is not predation, as some claim, that is something sudden, like an impact.
R
Just needs evidence to support that claim.
@@Eyes_Open
We could start with Mammoths as one of the thousands of species that went extinct.
@@dustydesert1674 When did the mammoths go extinct? In all regions at the same time? Extinctions were happening thousands of years apart for some species as per current understanding.
@@Eyes_Open that IS the evidence.
Always so good to see your posts come up.
I’m contributing! I used to listen to your podcast and loved it.
I’m so glad I found you again
As a retired geologist, I have worked in impact structures and re-stratigraphic sediments with mineralization and have also learned the trade in the very glacial domains of Scandinavia, Greenland, and New Zealand, a hypothesis saying that globally affected geological and astronomical events is nothing new, there has been deep correlations of such events, like the Tunguska event around 1908. One of my professors in paleontology, Björn Kurtén, from Åbo, voiced ideas that interstadial changes did affect our forefathers, proven by Svante Pääbo et al. Why is this a discussion, meteorites and vulcanism has through all of the planet's history altered the life conditions. Look at the Lockne crater southeast of Östersund; there exists a fossil of an octopus getting a part of the meteorite in its head. Also, during the Ice Age, Sahara was a flourishing Eden, now dried out. What happened to those animals and humanoids. Something happened in Syria during the same period, younger Dryas, forcing a new way of life. A correlation between the dry out of the Saharas and changes in the levant might been ONE of the causes, astroblemes another. I people fights about such, then we are in a bad way. Nils-Axel Mörners Gothenburg theory about the earth magnetics might be a clue, though he was wrong at times and right in others.
There was an impact in western egypt recently before king tuts time. They were farming impact melted glass to use for jewlry..
@@christianbuczko1481
"Was a Nuclear Holocaust" it created the trinitite glass, the glass is found in a area of 6k sq miles, a f4000degree asteroid can't foot it with a
Million Degree Nuke .
so fgullible can't you think for yourself Dude
@@christianbuczko1481 30 million years might be recent in geologic time, but it's not recent compared to Tutankhamun.
@@Deipnosophist_the_Gastronomer who said 30mil years?? I was referring to an event which left dessert glass on the surface of the dessert, which means its very recent, as in less than 12,000 years old, possibly from the younger dryas events infact. The reason for that idea is that the dessert wasnt always a dessert, 12,000 years ago it was green, meaning there would be evidence of carbon, and the fact the glass is found on the surface, not from deep down also suggests its relatively recent.
@@christianbuczko1481 The impact that created the glass that you are talking about has been dated to ~30 million years ago.
Might be the first TH-cam video to have an era description. Very interesting thanks guys.
You guys will have 100k subscribers sooner than later. With great content and chemistry 100k cannot be avoided
This is true!
I'm certainly not an expert but my understanding about 'shocked' quartz is that the intense pressure wave actually shocked the crystal structure of quartz to a high-pressure form; quartz occurs naturally in several crystal forms (technical names) depending on the T/P* situation of formation. Hope that makes sense.
* temperature/pressure
I've been learning a bit of geology and there are so incredibly many forms of silicate rocks... I had to check, shocked quartz is high pressure but not high temp. Discovered during atomic testing, found in impact craters but also caused by lightning strikes so you also need mineral evidence to confirm impact events.
@@luciddaze248 : agree, context is important. Polymorphs of Silica (SiO²): Silica occurs in nature as seven distinct polymorphs: quartz, cristobalite, tridymite, coesite, stishovite, lechatelerite (silica glass), and opal.
Once again 9:37 a good discussion, punctuated by your signature sense of humor. I really enjoy this channel in the midst of the kitchen middens of some individual’s flights of fancy. The mention of Abu Hureyra really caught my attention. Years ago I took an upper division course in Soil Science which I found unexpectedly fascinating. Before we got to the nitty gritty of soil composition, we spent the exploration of several chapters on the development of agriculture. One of the sites they focused on was Abu Hureyra and it’s proximity to the species of wild grains that became domesticated, although stands of wild ancestors i.e emmer and einkorn still exist in the area. The text book was quite old even when I took the course because the village site still existed on its ancient location. I still have that book. It was well regarded at the time and quite carefully written to avoid any leaps of the imagination. And as a result of the course I think anyone doing archeological digs would benefit from even a bit of soil science.
Mr. George Howard
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Dr. Christopher Moore
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Mr. Marc Young
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Mr. David Kimbel
Dr. Eric K. Richman Some of the amazing Researchers who make up the Comet Research Group - Very encouraged to see you feature this paper, as I know they work so hard and justly deserve attention!
CONGRATULATIONS on your New Milestone, more encouraging signs... amidst some of the madness that is enveloping the world - even of Our Past and History itself.
Never trust a group who's only purpose is to prove their own hypothesis.
@@swirvinbirds1971 I.e., never trust any authors of any papers? All papers are published by people demonstrating their hypothesis. The people to distrust in this instance are Boslough, Surovell, and Holliday, who are actively destroying their hard-earned reputations. Surovell is still a Clovis-firster. Boslough has become obsessed and does no real work anymore. The real mystery is why. Can it all be Hancock Derangement Syndrome?
@@sciptick no, groups specifically formed to prove their own hypothesis.
Why do you think that? What stake do they have to lose?
Randal Carlson has some good podcast on all this too.
@@swirvinbirds1971 only because the mainstream's purpose to prevent competing hypothesis from being proven.
Love listening to your chats. I learned something new today.
Congrats Guys! It’s tough to make people care about this, and you fellas do it!
Great work ❤
I look forward to every release you have sirs! Well done.
You guys seem to be having too much fun doing these show. Thanks. Keep going.
I will continue to keep an open mind since I have no expertise in this field. I will wait for experts to go over this paper and hash it out. I love this about science.
I actually hate this about science. because many times someone gets the correct answer the first time, but (especially now in modern academia as most "scientists" are just beauracrats masquerading as scientists... and have no interest in truth seeking. instead they are much more consumed with reputation, career, and money) some butt-hurt "scientist" goes about not disproving the first paper, but merely casting doubt upon it by claiming "method inconsistenty" or some other bs. never actually showing why their paper is wrong, but merely throwing enough shade to cause an inkling of doubt because their methodology wasn't 100% all encompassing, or that another way to check something may exist. the entire point is to just keep someone else from getting recognition
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, usually it's a duck!!! Why the vitriolic abhorrent opposition to what the facts are indicating, all the ducks line up in a neat little row if you just will look at the obvious evidence, then it all makes sense, Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is usually the right one, that's what we go with in science, what is most likely, and a series of air-burst impacts with a few actually making contact with the ice sheets explains so much, the heat paradox of the former ice age, the massive influx of fresh melt-water, the plummeting of global temps due to the shutting down of the "great ocean conveyor system", shocked quartz and nano-diamonds, Carolina Bays impact proxies that fan out from Saginaw Bay, the Greenland impact crater which has almost exactly 13000 years of new unfractured ice and snow above it. The black mat found at countless sites all over the world dating right to 12,800 ybp, the end of Clovis, and so many other cultures across the globe. Abrupt abandonment of site previously occupied for millennia, evidence of catastrophic floods worldwide, but especially in the American west. So many points that all line up to a massive series of impacts that likely occurred in 2 distinct periods, one around 12800 ypb and a second around 11600 ybp, but for 1200 years there may have been frequent impacts, but with the 2 meltwater pulses it may point to 2 significant impact events, the last of which was around 9600 BCE. So much evidence to dispute with no alternative explanations. It boggles the mind why someone would continue to be so adamant about disputing this "theory" I think at this point it should be accepted as actual fact and universally studied to find out the how, why, when, and wheres etc... so we can properly prepare to defend ourselves from the next one, why is this so hard for people to understand and accept???
Denial of one’s life long education starting to fracture, transitions into ideology, we can observe the evidence of this popping up all over the world…
I don't understand either. It is clearly in mythology, I don't know how everyone missed it. The Mesoamericans sacrificed humans to the Feathered Serpent, from the most recent meteor stream's radiant, so that it would not take the Sun away, again, for long periods of time, Impact Winters. The incredulousness is so persuasive that I have had to research Psychology to understand denial. I am just about convinced it is a genetic memory of the traumas. We know the story : The Shinning Hero fighting the Dragon to save the Maiden. It is in Little Red Riding hood also, as the Woodsman cuts out of the Wolf, the grandma, mom, and the kid, symbolizing the Ages of Man, or The Suns of America.
They still have hard time admitting they were wrong about cities and people in the Amazon. Impact modeling with multiple meteors made the most sense to me.
Well said, @bvalt1 👍🏽
I postulate that there is an agenda, perhaps unrecognized, that wishes to believe that man is in charge and has full control. Extraterrestrial events, for the most part, are out of our control.
Fascinating! Thanks for de-boggling such a mind-boggling load of facts for us in such an entertaining way!
I always like your content.
It's an island of civility humour and it's really interesting
Thank you
Just discovered this channel. Looking forward to watching more of your content.
One of your best, guys. Just subscribed. Being Scots, I thought that the Younger Dryas was named (at least in part) after a member of the Younger family, famous brewers of fine ales, and creators of the Younger Botanic Gardens at Benmore. Hmmm, maybe I now need to start hunting for the Older Botanic Gardens....
In North America, 12,900 years ago also marks a time of human cultural change-from very large Clovis blade technology to Folsom tools. The changeover is associated with a change in the size of hunted mammalian prey & final disappearance of megafauna other than bison. The much disdained Solutrean hypothesis, though, proposed very similar events as the recent claims you discuss about the YDIH-widespread forest fires and disappearance of the proposed Solutreans who are proposed to have reached North America across the ice-congested North Atlantic from the extended coastline of Pleistocene France/Spain after around 19,000 ya. As long as we keep talking about the possibilities, we’ll keep extending the research to find out more about the wonders of the human race.
Yes, too many Flint hand tools, found from 12,000 years ago to 33,000, & then a SEVER GAP OF 100,000'S of years we find a unknappable assortment of Quarzatite; (Chalcedony) ones?
There is no direct connection between Solutreans and the North American Clovis industry. However, the 5000 years between their invention in Europe and Clovis points turning up in North America is plenty of time for people carrying the invention to migrate incrementally all the way across Asia and then into North America, bringing their tool industry with them. If true, it will take a century of archaeology to prove it.
@caroletomlinson5480 = _"...the proposed Solutreans who are proposed to have reached North America across the ice-congested North Atlantic from the extended coastline of Pleistocene France/Spain after around 19,000 ya. "_ - - - - - I understand what you are saying, all except for the fact that there is no evidence to support your claim, not even DNA.
@@sciptick that’s laughable.
@@caroletomlinson5480 Laughable? Less likely than independent invention, but still possible. What is laughable is people in North America sitting on Solutrean industry for 5000 years and then beginning to use it after it has disappeared from Europe.
Always love your show, but younger dryas is a particular favourite subject, so fascinating, as it changed everything! Great info. Fab 👍😊
How have I not seen this channel before? You guys are great! Subscribed, looking forward to rummaging through the content….
Check out Antonio Zamora's youtube videos on this. According to his work, more than one comet fragment hit the Laurentide icesheet around the Great Lakes in the USA. This impact led to the formation of the Carolina Bays and Nebraska Rainwater Basins (secondary ice bolder impacts) in the USA and wiped out the North American mega fauna.
Sorry, the bays are way too old to be connected to the end-Pleistocene comet strike.
@@sciptick Incorrect. Check out his videos. It gets into age dating as well and the incorrect procedures that have been used in dating. A lot has to do with the overturn of the crater lip and where samples have been obtained.
@@justmenotyou3151 thank you. people don't realize that you cannot date ice boulder impacts by soil date testing alone! Zamora is correct and the YDIH group cannot handle admitting they got it WRONG.
@@sciptick I am sorry, but the disappearance of all megafauna in North America and the evidence of tens of thousands of craters radiating outward from a relatively common source is FAR too coincidental to be discounted.
@@justmenotyou3151Zamora has nothing that dates their formation to 12,900 years ago. Nothing.
Gothenburg Magnetic Excursion happened in the same period, with magnetic field strength plummeting. It was all in all a shit time to be alive.
A bit like today then….. magnetic field wise as well as other wise
Perhaps it was a solar event rather than an impact if we were less protected
@@qui-gonjay2944that wouldn’t explain Shocked Quartz,or Carolina/Nebraska bays, or many other things
Are you familiar with Antonio Zamora research?
@@qui-gonjay2944 - Solar events are brief, like the last one that only effected the atmosphere for a few days. Full solar cycles last from 9-14 years; solar maximum lasts about 2-ish years. The Younger Dryas period lasted from about 200-400 years.
My own take on the Younger Dryas climate change is a Comet (or loosely held assemblage of debris) was pulled apart in the earth’s gravity field with many pieces raining down across a global swath. The resulting platinum, iridium, micro spheres, micro diamond, deposits combined with global fire storms in the same strata marks the impact event that triggered the collapse of the AMOC water current that keeps Northern Europe warm and thereby greatly reduces ice that reflects solar radiation (a self perpetuating cold that continued until the AMOC was restored 1000 years later.
Antonio Zamora is comprehensive concerning the totally distinct geometry of the Carolina Bays, and, more.
No he does not. He ignores dating work, has an ejecta curtain that dwarfs even the Chicxulub crater, has never even shown an impactor can create a perfect mathematical ellipse, yet alone the bays themselves show everything from wind migration (GPR imaging of Herdron Bay) to undisturbed sediments under the bays showing no impact formation.
The Geomodels has some really good videos on the Carolina Bays. Curious Being, although I disagree with her Ancient lost civilization stuff, also has a good video about the Carolina Bays.
@@swirvinbirds1971
I think the minimal work performed on the raised rims is consistent with his dating modeling. The ice is a different beast from the rocks outskirting Chixulib, thus, the wider curtain cannot be discounted for this reason, its cannonball trajectories. Zamora does some field work on the wind erosion proposed by Prince in river beds that lends to his consistency as well, but, the issue is dynamic, despite this aspect of statics where the center of the target is dismissed.
Is thatore willy nilly than true recorded history of the outlying areas? There is an enormous amount of shared consistency in the alignments in the central regions, so, why they are called Carolina Bays and not Georgia Bays? Pointing to an energy equation that seems to be a singular blast rather than spread out has the center of the target in its sights, I think. Accounting is not all discounnting.
@@RobertMStahl His dating modeling? He is a computer science guy with no expertise in the field and in no way a Geologist. Minimal work? Lots of dating work has been done. What's minimal is dating work that would agree with Zamora of which there is none.
We have impact ejecta curtains on the Mars ice cap and they are nowhere near the size of this proposed ejecta curtain in relation to the crater and Mars has a much thinner atmosphere.
Btw they are called different things in different areas and their morphology changes as well. In Maryland, they are called Maryland basins. Within the Delmarva Peninsula, they and other coastal ponds are also called Delmarva bays. The word Carolina Bays evolved in papers studying the Bays in Carolina.
@@swirvinbirds1971 there was a study done on the raised rims Zamora cites
@@RobertMStahl lots of work have been done on the sand rims and the fact that they migrate. Dating work on the sand rims show bay migration. You can find these same raised sand rims on Thermokarst Lakes as well.
Basic science fan/average Joe.
Maybe due to the fact of watching The Why Files or reading other publications, I find myself to be a fan of the YDIH.
To me, it just makes sense.
I grew up in South Carolina USA, and your discussion just reminded me of the thousands of half-mile or mile-wide shallow craters of the costal low-lands there, called "Carolina Bays". From the ground, you just think they are swamps and earth berms; but from an airplane survey, like in the 1930s first aerial pictures, they quickly stand out as shallow impact craters, with debris in them dated at 12,500 years old (when rocks or ice boulders the size of big buildings fell from the sky).
the Carolina Bays are much much older than the Younger Dryas.
@@NathanaelFosaaen you can't date those impacts by testing the soil.
TH-cam>Antonio Zamora > Carolina Bays>LIDAR
Lol, there naturally formed (water) , and being formed in multiple places around the world today , I own property within 2 miles from them in NC
@@andrewbowlgarte4738 prove they're naturally formed.
One of the best recent indie prehistory news pods out there if not, the best. And all thanks to a couple of bumbling old tech fogeys! Who wouldve thought
Hi guys, great talk. I have a background in historic geology, though being more of a generalist then a specialist. I've always favored the impact hypothesis, based on the evidence presented. To me, another aspect is the number of extraterrestrial impacts Earth has experienced. It's more then just a few. In a way it's like extinction events. Most know of the "Big 5" extinction events, which leaves out the largest of all, the Great Oxygenation Catastrophe that occurred around 2.5 billion years ago. Plus there are other events, like the Chesapeake Bay Bolide, which likely contributed to the Eocene-Oligocene Extinction about 33 million years ago, and gave the U.S. it's largest impact crater. Many are unaware of that impact, the immense crater it formed, and the related extinction.
Thank you guys for discussing this hypothesis, this one could be coming home, please look at the black Matt layer, it could be very significant, fringe/ citizen science can on occasion have relevance subject to scientific peer review naturally.
richard firestone's book is a must for this topic.
Congratulations on the subscriber milestone, very well deserved!
For me there are lessons here. It’s amazing that the evidence for something that must of been so unimaginably violent has been so easy to miss and is still controversial.
One lesson is that the clues may be difficult to establish. The other lesson is that once you start stepping on toes, even professionals can act in ways that are inexcusable.
OH, some people's 'professionalism' is truly skin deep!
Great video. Thanks for explaining the name, Younger Dryas, too. Curious, then, why the flower was named that, I ran into a bunch of Greek mythology with several characters cited but most depicting him as a spectacular warrior. Which makes sense if you're a tough little flower growing on glaciated terrain.
Great Subject. more please :)
FYI You can order extra 100K plaques once you get to 100K, You pay for the extras. Some people have them at home and in their recording studio or one RV channel said he gave a plaque to his Mom, Dad and an Aunt along with one at home and one at his work.
Thanks for bringing both sides of the discussion. Wish you'd said more about the nay's.
so refreshing to see fellow "post teenagers" discussing things on you tube love it
for the Battle of Britain crumpet fund 🎉 thanks!
You are very kind - thank you! That's much appreciated. 😊
You guys make excellent content.
Since you mentioned Earth moving through the comet's tail, would we be able to cross-check the Moon's craters to find a match of that time?
There's a formula to give an age range to moon craters based on how many smaller craters have formed within them, it's very low resolution compared to our modeling of Earth's history. Maybe rovers could attempt to "match" craters with mineral analysis in the future though, which could in turn make the crater dating formula more accurate... very cool to think about
Yet another reason for a permanent moon base
I have to say that as an archaeologist, I have always preferred "all of the above." All of the various "explanations" have some sound reasons for thinking they may hold some support. Also, there is the recent impactite discovery in Chile that is about the right age.
Fascinating! Thanks for this interesting report.
Meteor or not, the YD was definitely a global catastrophe that had people everywhere transitioning from good food (big game essentially) to much lower quality food: mollusks in Europe, acorns in North Africa (causing a horrible epidemic of cavities) and grass, almost literally "grass" (that's what cereals are), in the Fertile Crescent from Sudan to the Zagros. Places like Ireland saw their climate radically change from modern temperatures to Greenland-like ones in a matter of months. Some sort of catastrophe it was definitely.
If it was indeed caused by a meteorite or comet impact, for which there is at least some serious evidence, I lean towards but unsure.
Read The Comet Research Group Publications, it is assuredly space fall proxies covering 1/3 of the globe. There were hippo's in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula just prior.
Yes evidence of the destruction of Megolithic Structures Worldwide, is obvious, yet all indications that they were 460,000, & 720,000 years ago.
How do you explain the warming of the Southern Hemisphere while the temperature of the Northern Hemisphere dropped? A change in the "Atlantic meridional overturning circulation" can easily explain both conditions and is something that we may be facing again in the not too distant future. With the disruption of the circulation, the Gulf Stream will cease bringing warm water north nd cause significant cooling.
@@MossyMozart - Not sure, it's something I was unaware of before you asked. But after a cursory search I found that a 2021 paper on moa paleo-ecology in NZ (Richard N Holdaway, "Palaeobiological evidence for Southern Hemisphere Younger Dryas and volcanogenic cold periods") seems to contradict the previous papers (Kaplan 2010 and Carlson 2013) that claimed that there was a warming instead (based on glacial retreat in a key paleoclimate research site also in NZ). Per the moa ecology paper, NZ experienced cooling for all the YD period, just as Europe.
Anyway, the meteor and the oceanic stream system shift are not in contradiction: a meteor could hardly cause a thousand-years-long climate shift like that... but it could devastate some glaciers pouring massive amounts of cold freshwater into the North Atlantic and radically disrupting the AMOC (Gulf Stream system). The persistance of this short ice age clearly indicates that it was not just the meteor and maybe it would have happened anyhow without it, that the North American ice shelf suddenly pouring into the North Atlantic was the real cause of the YD. However this pouring may have been triggered by a meteor anyhow.
@@MossyMozart "How do you explain"... Maybe the global climate is a _complicated subject,_ often involving counterintuitive effects? Big events often produce big changes that cause further big changes, some of which might be in ocean circulation. Anybody pretending to know all about how climate works is visibly pretending, and maybe wishing. Wishing is incompatible with science. Stop wishing.
thank you. If the scientists, who studied those things thoroughly have such different opinions on 'what really happened' (they even fight eachother!), I don't feel bad about having my own opinions 😊
I like pre-history. Once you have studied most of what there is to know about written histories from the Persian Empire to the British Empire there is nothing new left to learn except pre-history.
Silver plaque: someone (IIRC) said you can buy duplicates once you've earned one. Go, gents, go!
Right on topic with the news. Many thanks.
You have a new follow. I really enjoyed the video.
You two are awesome and very funny. What a wonderful way to teach ❤❤❤!!!
Thanks TPG
I imagine it’s passing through a comet tail. In Earth high altitude, like the plasma burn in a pulverised coal blasted furnace. That is in constant intense glow. Being in Power station experience . The evidence logically backs this even stronger hypothesis.
I would welcome a session about Tim Rowe's securely-dated 37kyo Hartley mammoth site. Everybody seems just as afraid to mention it as they are the comet strike.
I became one more subscriber to your site today.
Comet tails are not very dense. We pass through two per year. They produce meteor showers. No big whoop.
read astronomer victor clube, whilst most debris are insignificant, there are many dangerous pieces in comet tails.
Napier and clube, their books can be hard to find and very expensive.
I wish they'd reprint their work, might look for scientific papers.
Meteor and comets are two different objects. 1st being mostly rock, 2nd mostly ice.
New subscriber! Kudos ⭐
Antonio Zamora provides an interesting take on a Laurentide, Michigan impact
One of the lead scientists on the CRG is Firestone - very appropriate.
Victor Clube and Bill Napier and their book Cosmic Serpent opened many eyes to the possibility of impact events affecting myths and history.
Melting huge volumes of ice at zero degrees centigrade to water at zero degrees centigrade takes a lot of energy and explaining the heat input for the melt water pulse at that time is difficult to explain but impacts are a potential way to achieve that result.
A massive amount of airbursts would certainly cause damage worldwide.
Love you guys. LOVE
Hay Couzinz - As above - as below - ITZ All signz in Scale - aah !🇨🇦
Liked and subscribed. Excellent discussion. Interesting the effects this event had on the earth and human civilization. More so what would be the consequences should this happen again? Excellent video.
So many channels want a like and subscribe at the very beginning of the video, before you have seen what the video holds. And for those who are first time viewers of the channel. It is absurd to like or subscribe, when you haven’t seen the video and don’t know if you like or agree with the content, which may lead you to a subscription.
Close your eyes... It's John Cleese talking ❤❤❤
Rupert in HD! what a treat
Randall Carlson is not attached to Hancock, as some might imply. They intersect in theories, but differ in others. The Comet Research group is not attached to Carlson. Intersection does not imply cloning or mirroring as bedfellows. I don't agree with everything anyone theorizes as a whole, even when the bits and bobs have evidence. Lumping the outliers into a category to chastise, only shows your personal limitations to learn new things. Science eventually chastises the chastisers. Thanks for bring up some new information to some, and extant information to myself. Well lit.
"Randall Carlson"
@@TheDanEdwards but, a broken clock is right twice a day. He may have some wild theories, but he also has a lot of knowledge.
@@TheDanEdwards, what makes you say such nonsense?
@@TheDanEdwards Carlson is a scientist who is not 100% correct. Hancock is a true believer. They are not conmen like unchartedX.
@@TGBurgerGamingCarlson IS NOT A SCIENTIST. He is an ARCHITECT.
Turn off Randall Carlson and turn on Nick Zentner to learn how Randall is a fool or simply a con man.
A comet's tail is not going to cause any damage to Earth. It's just widely dispersed dust. Neither would it produce some of the items you were talking about like shocked quartz and microspherules. Those would be the result of an actual collision.
That thought did occur to me.
the remnants of comet encke have laid down debris and dust in an earth crossing orbit which the earth still encounters today. some of that "dust" is substantial and threatening to life on earth. bolide airbusts produce extreme pressure and temperatures many times hotter than the sun.
@@littlefish9305 I consider a comet's orbiting "remnants" and a comet's dust tail to be different things.
I may be behind a bit, but they do not seem to consider the possible impact site on the N end of Greenland, still covered in ice now, but drains out impact-related material. Can't recall the paper now, but these guys don't seem to have seen that?
@@antimatter4444 Yes. I think you're talking about the Hiawatha Crater in Greenland.
If rye was a viable crop during the YD , just imagine those poor people having to drink Canadian whiskey for a thousand years. The suffering! And I'm Canadian by the way. Love your channel and her's a single malt to 100,000.
There's a large impact crater in northwest Greenland that was discovered a few years ago. It's covered by the ice sheet, but it's near the edge. With the limited research that's been done so far, they think it's a fairly young crater. It's possible that it's an impact crater from the younger dryas period, but no one knows at this point in time.
I will add this latest article to what I teach in my 4th year course at Carleton U
If you look at past recent Holocene periods they never last longer than 11k years, SO WE ARE OVERDUE 😢!
Eastern canada, Greenland and the great lakes have always looked like an impact site when you factor in ice and geology. The asteroid impact mission showing how common it is for those bodies to be loosely connected collections of smaller objects also means you can't assume single impact sites for every impact. Thats now statistically impossible.
Thanks Gents I always wonder what the term "Younger Dryas" meant, but was too afraid to ask👍👍
Yes, the "Dryasi" are named for a little artic flower that migrated southward during those very cold periods.
Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉
You have as yet to hear about the Pyramid Cosmic Bomb Shelter Hypothesis.
You heard it here first.
At the moment there is only correlation, not causation. It is like asking, what caused the megadrought that ended the Assyrian Empire? If there was an actual megadrought.
Could one find evidence of the Y-D anywhere? South central Pennsylvania?
I find it very satisfying how this new theory landed right in the middle of the two extreme positions on the younger dryas matter. It is not not an impact and it is also not ancient civilizations.
It is however and impact with a profound impact on beginnings of modern humanity.
In the end no one was fully right. And they weren’t fully wrong either. Very scientific. 🤓
@jakobfromthefence - It is an hypothesis. It has not yet been elevated to the level of a theory.
@@MossyMozart as I understand it, it is now a scientific theory, as it is backed up by empirical research. It would be a hypothesis, if it was merely an empirically testable assumption.
In this case, empirical evidence has been tested, repeatedly as I understand, and the results are quite specifically conclusive.
Ps. Let me just add here that of course none of this lets the wild pseudo history theorists off the hook. It just appears a hypothesis that was basis for their expanding conjectures turned out to be repeatedly proven, ergo, true until proven wrong.
@@jakobfromthefence The end-Pleistocene comet strike is well-established. Still totally open is whether that caused the cold spell, by itself or in combination with local phenomena. That makes YDIH still no more than a hypothesis, and one that will probably take decades to settle.
@@jakobfromthefence - There is also empirical evidence that shows a global disaster did _not_ happen. Why would we have so much evidence for the global Chicxulub disaster from 65,000,000 YBP, but NOT have a consensus on the evidence for a supposed global disaster from only 13,000 YBP? It is illogical.
@@sciptick zamora's hypothesis is the best explanation of the evidence we see.
i started with the amazing randall carlson podcasts and delved further and see the weight of the evidence surely means catastrophic geocosmic impact with comet fragments. and a side issue, i see a graph of ice ages shows we may be tipping towards another. that's why i personally put the danger of warming climate down the list of earthly and human perils.
If a comet impacted the Laurentide ice sheet, it wouldn't leave a crater since the ice was what, two miles thick?
THIS. Or maybe it was a Tunguska type of *Explosive Airburst* of a much larger comet?
Possible craters have been found in several places in Canada. They appear shallow as you would expect in these circumstances. I read the papers that mentioned this years ago but I think it was Firestone and West et al.
@@donhillsmanii5906 everyone please look up Antonio Zamora's channel and watch his content, he explains all of this perfectly with his glacier ice impact hypothesis.
Comets are mostly ice, this would have been more meteor shower. Like other person mentioned tunguski
@JohnAvillaHerpetocultural this was what i was reading as well. Large impact area small craters most likely meteor shower
Subbed!
Pole shift, CME and comets may all be part of the same phenomena . Maybe the magnetosphere does not just weaken during pole shift, perhaps for a moment, it actually attracts comets and meteors while also being hit with plasma waves from sun. We will soon find out. Suspicious Observer is on TH-cam, if you don't already know, highly recommend.
Yes, Pole Shifting is a non-understood fact, that alludes us even today as to how or why. I wonder if they coincide with Global Earth Freezing?
There is a crater in Greenland, but it's dated to 50 odd mya. What impact mechanism would cause a cooling for so long and just as quick warming at the end?
Dating on Hiawatha is far from secure. It amounts to wishful thinking by a some who wish the YD-coincident impact were not proven, and wish that proof depended on a connection to Hiawatha.
Comet STREAM: A large comet in the process of fracturing into much smaller, disparate pieces. Imagine thousands of Tunguskas (+/- an order of magnitude) in the space of a few days.
If it were a comet similar to Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, it may have broken up into large icy masses. Ice melted in our atmosphere leaving rocks and dust which spread around our planet. heating the earth and starting fires. Following the fires, the atmosphere would be cooled by the smoke and clouds of the condensing water vapor. Consequently there may not have been pieces of rocks large enough to survive entry into the atmosphere and leave large impact sites.
Cosmic impact such as a polar reversal like what we are experiencing now. Geology supports this theory but first, we see dramatic variations in weather.
This is a speculative hypothesis; it hardly rises to the level of theory.
@MossyMozart Incorrect! there are hundreds of scientific studies supporting this theory.
Like I said geology don't lie!
Exactly how confused am I? What I read and saw on TV was that the Younger Dryas was caused by an enormous amount of comet debris which rapidly melted the glaciers at the end of the last Ice Age. When ice was locked up in glaciers, ocean levels were much lower and many large cities were on those ancient coastlines. A sudden global ice melt might have flooded cities around the world, resulting in stories of a "global" flood (found in cultures around the world) when it was just a sudden rise in sea levels. A LOT of exciting archeological work is now centered off the current ocean coasts and they are finding cities out there. If this was something which happened more than once, it would explain why the underground city of Derinkuyu in Turkey was built...going beneath the surface to escape catastrophic debris falling from the sky. This (and the research cited) says the comet debris started the Ice Age. I want to stay with science but everything we know about ancient civilizations is being overturned by recent discoveries of cities (Göbekli Tepe for example) which existed long before they were previously assumed.
I can add another few points into the mix. If we look at lacustrine and some terrestrial records from Chukotka in northeastern Russia and also parts of the Brooks range, we see also very limited evidence of a Younger Dryas Event at all. See Vyse et al. 2020. Also significant pollen work by Anderson and Lohzkin.
The 'Comet Research Group', have been on The History Channel. Wow!
Everything that's not big enough to punch a hole right through a mile thick ice shield will not leave a distinctive crater. Much of the energy doesn't reach the bedrock and therefore doesn't modify it as much as it happens in usual crater building. Meltwater caused by the impact heat will damage newly created, shallow craters where the impactos just barely got through the ice. And last but not least: Meltwater on the end of the glaciation washes away even more evidence.
Excellent,thanks
Hi Guys, are you aware of the amazing series of TH-cam videos by Dr Martin Sweatman surveying and criticising the ENTIRE YDIH scientific literature up to about three years ago? Here is the link to the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLftb0lOpSe9PvJhFKSueZV9Wrz4g1qRkr.html
In this series Dr Sweatman is sharply critical of the scientific methodologies employed by the YDIH critics. I don't have the detailed scientific and statistical training required to assess what he says in detail but it seemed rather compelling to me. No coverage of the topic is complete without a look at this material, imho!
I just read an article on this and they said it was probably a comet about 80km wide that broke up into many smaller fragments. They should be able to reverse the trajectory by trying to align where the proposed air bursts occurred but also what evidence in terms of impact proxies are going to be found if a lot of the initial explosions happened over ice sheets. How is the evidence going to washout once the ice melts its a tough one to crack but if they could align the trajectory they could even find the remnants of the comet still circling the Earth so they can be properly identified.
comet encke. Victor Clube and Bill Napier published some very good books on it, they argue there are some big chunks left in the taurid meteor stream. interestingly the perihelion of dwarf planet Sedna was near the YD and is due back in 2076. yikes! could disruption of the kuiper belt by Sedna have produced comet encke?
Wouldn't it be ironic if farming was first invented solely to support the making of beer?
I have never looked up why the Younger Dryas was called that.
nor did I know there was an Older Dryas.
I had just assumed (the danger of doing that is constantly re-enforced)
that it was named after a couple of scientists named Younger and Dryas
who first noticed it in the geologic record.
Dryas is a flower. I think its a small daisy. Its range changed with the temperature.
@@bennichols1113 that is the reason,
as I have since become aware.