This Wasn't An Accident
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2023
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DOWN D. STAIRS
Fuck you made me spit my tea omg
top ten strongest characters in ficton
Top 1 in the verse
Top 1 one in all of anime
@@FNCSBossBabynot even saitama could handle those stairs (like he can't handle mosquitos)
"Humans are fragile things" is in my opinion the message Oda wanted to convey with this flashback. Tragedies happen and sometimes we can't make sense of it. Even great and powerful people die suddenly like from a common disease.
Which is a pretty silly messaage for such a funky place like the One Piece world though.
Which is a weird message when you’ve got Sanji/Zeff starving for a month in the sun and heat.
@@ShaggyDabbyDank Roger died of a disease and was never able to finish the ultimate journey and uncover the one piece secret. Fisher Tiger died of blood loss. They are super human who can survive many things but what did them in is fairly mundane.
@gunchar06 not really remember super humans are a minority in One Piece not the majority most people are just common scrubs living at the mercy of pirates and marines power struggle
@@gunchar06I mean Roger himself was dying to a disease.
Honestly, I think it really was just stairs. We think Kuina was crazy strong because of how strong Zoro got but she was still a kid from the East Blue, even with her training a fall down the stairs could kill her. I also think it's meant to simply be tragic, that after finally deciding to pursue her dream regardless of obstacles, fate decides to take that from her and thus give Zoro the resolve to pursue it for both their sakes. Having Kuina be revealed to be alive later would ruin things.
I agree
This
If there's a correlation between Kuina and Tashigi it's probably just "they're cousins"or something, but it's most probably just a coincidence meant to remind Zoro of why he wants to achieve his dream pretty soon after his encounter with Mihawk (by becoming the World's Strongest Swordsman, that would mean that Kuina by extension is the only person that the World's Strongest Swordsman could never beat, and thus he accomplishes her will in a roundabout way)
Yeah no, Zoro was as kid already a blatant superhuman, so the fact that he ever struggled against Kuina makes it completely unbelievable that she somehow died from something that even in the real world rarely kills anyone except extremely fragile old people.
@@gunchar06 Kuina beating Zoro can easily be explained by her having far more experience with a sword than him. Remember Zoro had no formal training with a sword prior to arriving at said dojo and won with raw power. Kuina however had been training since she was able to pick up a sword and thus overcame the strength differnece.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105 The most experienced fighter in the real world would still lose to an untrained Captain America who just knows the basics, especially if said fighter is just a Welterwheight at best(and even that's a deliberately lowballed example to show how big the difference would really need to be for Kuina to be not a superhuman herself), so Kuina was either a superhuman(which of course also makes the whole her being a woman problematic pretty nonsensical) or had straight up supernatural skill(which still puts the her being a woman problematic into question, but to a lesser degree).
This is one of the moments where the anime stretchs things out and actually makes it better. The part when the sensei says something like "Zoro... I'm a swordsman, but I am still a father. And when I look at you, I can't help but feel sad" with a dead cold face, hits like a truck. Luckily they both find some peace of mind through Zoro inheriting her sword.
Her death was so bizarre. Especially in One Piece world. Usually if someone fell off the stairs they would've said "itai" and move on with their lives. 😂
It can kinda be chalked up to the fact that early One Piece was a lot more… I hesitate to say “realistic” but perhaps more GROUNDED than it is now.
Same reason Shanks lost an arm even though he should have been powerful enough at the time to avoid it.
Early One Piece was more grounded, where a single stab in the gut with a knife was enough to incapacitate Zoro briefly. Compared to now, where characters are throwing fucking mountains at each other with rainbow coloured Haki auras and effortlessly shrugging off the equivalent of meteor strikes.
_With a big round bump half the size of their own head._
i mean people fall take bullets and cannons yet survive, the forementioned "people" are normal humans. so a talented swordsmen kuina wouldnt even take dmg. i think she died while carrying her sword, she fell down the stairs and the sword pierce her heart or skull.
Give her some milk
It's sad that she no longer have a live to move on with
What makes Kuina's death so difficult to take seriously is that in any other story it would be something tragic and realistic that could happen to anyone... Except that One Piece has people being cut in half, thrown off cliffs, starving for weeks, taking cannonballs in the face, getting shot at and surviving like it was nothing.
And people who say early op is more grounded forget that Zeffs flashback is in the same arc
I say it's cause they're little kids. Durability is different for kids. Also, Zeff gave Sanji all his food and he ate his own leg.
Why people ask for more ?
She is a kid who fell down in the stairs, and died.
Plus, it was shown in early one piece, so Oda probably didn't have the idea of making her have a super gruesome death or anything like that, just a simple one
@@yusifudo46 I would agree...If we didn't have cases like Luffy as a child being thrown off a cliff or thrown into the jungle by Garp (Before eating his fruit) or Zoro as a child training by lifting giant boulders. Even children in One Piece are absurdly resilient
to be fair
she a little kid
Every time Kuina comes up I feel like I have to say this because of all the crazy fan theories and feelings and stuff surrounding it. I think Kuina's death is a great backstory for Zoro exactly as it is. A lot of people will say that it's unsatisfying or lame or silly and like...yes! That's the point! It IS unsatisfying. Zoro had a friend and rival that he never defeated and never will. He promised that one of them would become the greatest swordsman in the world, and she was robbed of her chance to fulfill that promise. Not by any fault of her own, not even by being born female. But by a cruel twist of fate. There is no reason, no logic, no fulfilling answer for why she died. She was simply unlucky. For someone so driven by hard work and self-improvement as Zoro, how could he possibly accept such an unsatisfying end to her story? The fact that it is unsatisfying is *exactly* why it's such a great motivation for Zoro. He *must* fulfill that promise. Not just for himself, but for Kuina as well. Since she was robbed of her chance to fulfill that promise and become the ultimate swordsman, he must be the one to fulfill it in her stead. And in the end when Zoro has beaten Mihawk and become the greatest swordsman to ever live, when everyone on earth recognizes his skill as unmatched, he can say "You think I'm the best? I knew an even better swordsman. Someone I dueled 2001 times and never beat. I never defeated her and I never will. Her name was Kuina."
Any of these theories that she's secretly still alive or she's Tashigi or whatever are so lame to me. I seriously hope none of them are true because they would cheapen this story so much. This is such a simple backstory, but it's perfect for Zoro. He's a simple character, and that's ok. I would be extremely disappointed if Oda retroactively ruined this story by inserting some unnecessary plot point. Not everything has to be some grand plan or conspiracy or have some supernatural powers or forces behind it. This backstory is already great as it is.
Kuina got recruited by the god knights and she went with them because she wanted to get stronger.
Her character is about ultimate power, leaving behind her friends and family in pursuit of strength, so basically an Aramaki type of ideology where the strong eats the weak.
It compliments zoro’s hardwork and loyalty for his friends. They fight and then zoro defeats her and the wado becomes a black blade
@@troillandford7679 ohh fuck that makes sense
@@troillandford7679 but that will not happen. Lol.
Honestly i would find it more likely that Tashigi's vloodline is a distant branch off of the shimotsuke bloodline, leading to the appearance similarities
@@troillandford7679 we saw her funeral. How the hell would she have gotten people in such high standing to know her and even train her
I really like the idea that Kuina's dad was a very traditional Wano Samurai, but Oden brought about the change to Wano itself with his boundless chad energy that accepted any1 and anything he deemed worthy of his chadliness, even minks, fishman and other weirdos.
@MrGalRoz yeah but they migrated to the East Blue before Oden's time so they wouldn't know.
Most people keep making fun of Kuina dying from falling down the stairs, while completely neglecting the possibility of her dying from falling down the stairs *_with a sword._*
Even worse tbh lol
Was that sword cursed ? If so it tried to kill her
@@LOPHOAFRO Wado-Ichimonji is a meito grade sword, same as the sword that Zoro got at Loguetown, so it might be
i actually would never make fun someone dieing because of the stairs, i myself almost died earlier this year because i fell down the stairs and hit my head so hard my brain was bleeding. i am lucky to be alive typing this out.
try an umbrella
I think the Wado may in fact be a cursed blade, but not to extent of something like Enma. In fact I think we've seen the curse of the Wado many times in action and its "lack of a personality" as GLR puts it, plays into this curse. The Curse of..... Misdirection.
Kuina, Wado in hand is walking at night in the dark, suddenly becomes completely lost, goes the wrong way and falls down the stairs.
Zoro inherits the blade and from that point on grows up with a lifelong case of "wrong way syndrome." As he has become a greater swordsman and called on the power of his blade more, he gets lost more and more easily
Wtf I can accept this
and the booze he drinks, keeps his muscles loose, so if and when he stumbles down some stairs, his body doesn’t tense up, and he’s left relatively unscathed. 😂
how tf does this makes sense( i agree)
@@technician0096 it also explains the gorilla stance zoro has. It’s not actually his muscles getting bigger but kuina’s spirit boobs awakening in zoro’s biceps making him stronger 💪🏽
@@troillandford7679nah she'd have been flat as the floor her daddy found her on, so at most they made his left pinky a lil bigger.
Oda came out and said she did fall stairs. The reason he had to do that was because everyone was saying suicide. From what I understand at times falling down stairs is a cover story for suicide, but Oda said she really did just fall down D stairs.
The "falling down the stairs means suicide in Japan" thing is some bullshit that was started on a OP forum a long time ago and stuck for some reason.
"...we don't know how many stairs,..."
1 stair💀💀💀
I like the cursed sword theory. Zoro resolve has been resolute every time it needed to be around his swords, while Kuina's resolve was waning when she was a child. The sword killing her for a new master is one of the more logical theories.
Kuina changing from a girl to a boy would defeat the purpose of the Zoro's words which had a huge impact on her psychology. He said it's got nothing to do with being a boy or a girl and beating her is his dream. Beating her the way she was back then, a girl swordsman. Thus changing from a girl to a boy would not only disappoint Zoro because Kuina didn't put trust in herself and her abilities but would also go against the acceptance Zoro showed that a girl can be a great swordsman.
It also wouldn’t make sense for her to give up her own sword if she was still alive and planning on being a swordsman.
Yeah, I was very peeved when he went on about that. It's like Liam was actually agreeing with her.
Clearly Zoro will become a girl and then defeat her
Well, if it really "doesn't matter" to Zoro then, do you honestly think he would be disappointed? If it really did give her a power boost to readjust her hormones, would Zoro begrudge her for that? Or just enjoy the challenge?
It's an interesting question to ask at least.
@@TheGhostCrawler-eq4jkI’ll allow it, but beware the impact making FemmeZoro canon, and the cosplay to follow.
The live-action scene of Koshiro telling Zoro hit me like a truck. It was damn near word for word what my mother told me after my father died. For that reason it makes sense why he doesn't say exactly what happened and can't bring himself to say she's dead. It's too painful to when it's that recent.
I'm sorry for your loss no matter for how long ago that it was I'm sure it's still hard for you some days
Sorry for your loss.😢
I’m sorry for your loss ❤️
Did you get to spend time with your dad? It's nice to have good memories you can look back upon.
I remember very positively that, in the 4Kids dub, after Kuina was 'disabled', Koshiro told Zoro that the only reason he told Kuina she couldn't become as great of a swordswoman as she wanted, was to motivate her. Are you really telling me that wasn't in the Japanese dub, or at least in the Funimation dub? Because if not, then that's a pretty big improvement made by 4Kids (along with replacing the stairs with a group of thugs).
Kuina got recruited by the god knights and she went with them because she wanted to get stronger.
Her character is about ultimate power, leaving behind her friends and family in pursuit of strength, so basically an Aramaki type of ideology where the strong eats the weak.
It compliments zoro’s hardwork and loyalty for his friends. They fight and then zoro defeats her and the wado becomes a black blade
Kuina's demise stood out because she didn't have a heroic last stand to protect Zoro.
Just an unceremonious end.
it's still a mystery , i'm still leaning towards suicide.
the euphemism used , her being encourage by zoro then working out again just to get shot down again. for her it's not because her father has no confidence for her cause she's a girl , it's more of how she looks at the opinion of others. she probably thought she's a deadweight for her father and he'll be better off if one of his students inherits his dojo.
and it's weird that his father would've killed his daughter , i mean irl this type of things happen all the time , whether be it a prominent family from politics or business.
they usually marry the daughter off to a promising dude then have an agreement and adopt the said dude to the girl's family inheriting their last name instead of the traditional way. so kuina's father is not the killer.
so to me it's basically suicide. it was all in her head after all , seeing that nobody in the manga was bringing up the reason why she cannot inherit the dojo because of her being a girl. they were pointing out her mental state that is weak not her physical ability. and her to commit suicide only proves they were right
kuina is plagued by self-doubt , in the manga it was only her that mentioned that being a girl = weakness. no one else did so , not her father , her father's students , nor zoro. it was all in her head.
I think it's made that way so It feels very unfair to Zoro, and he has no one to blame, just a goal to pursue.
@@maosama3695 that would make sense however in the story they point out that she fell down the stairs after getting a 'sword sharpener' and being confused by it cause why would someone who trains with wooden swords need one ?
She needed one after having a sword duel with zoro.
@maosama3695
That euphemism thing is fake news. Nothing about falling down the stairs is linked to suicide.
Zoro’s just fighting fate, man.
My question then would be what is the point of Oda adding Tashigi into the story? Purposely making her look exactly like Kuina and loving swords. Something there just seems off.
In 4Kids adaptation, Kuina got attacked by a mob of angry guys and lost her ability to walk.
A fate worse than death.
And also in 4kids Bellemere gets locked up in a dungeon forever by Arlong and nobody saves her lmao 😭😭😭
honestly? better backstory
*(4 Guys standing behind Kuina on couch)*
Kuina: "I won't be able to walk after this!"
@@ollidragon3146 you guys love dark shit was too much
@@star-rock6466nice pfp
The thing is, Kuina falling down the stairs and dying does seem a litte realistic until you realise One Piece is a series where characters have survived a point blank nuke, a hail of lightning, a flaming sword to the head and getting shot in the back and front in a sea of sharks. Suddenly, getting clapped by a measly set of stairs seems very unbelievable and impossible, also considering Kuina's body didn't seem bruised or wounded the last time we see it in the manga.
Tbf, Whitebeard was basically dying of old and Gol D. Roger died of pirate cancer. So death is kind of all over the place in OP. Also most of the people we see surviving the epic things are people native to the Grand Line so that might have something to do with it.
To be fair, they were average children at the time. Kuina was training for a long time but she wasn't superhuman yet, and neither was Zoro. One Piece has some crazy power scaling but for the most part its localized to particular islands and routes in the sea, and the sea itself.
@@poppyfrancis7338zoro did have some superhuman strength as a kid tho lol
I love how Ivankov manages to somehow get into every theory ever
It would be interesting if the spirit of the wado, being a meito blade rebelled against kuina, causing her to maybe quite literally fall on her own sword
I don’t think the sword was cursed. The only cursed swords zoro had were the ones from lauge town, and the ones he got during the time skip.
@kris.p.bacon1361 in the chapter where zoro gets a flashback to meeting kozaburo in shimotsuki village, he learns that all swords have a personality, and some of the particularly strong ones give off an eerie vibe or cause injuries. The wado may not be "cursed" but it was made by the same guy who made enma so I would imagine it's also got a personality
The Wado told Kuina “You should kill yourself… NOW”
@@CakeSummit What find weird about that is that it did nothing with Zoro, who was weaker at the time. Even now its dormant.
@@Feja2503 Wado is actually sexist, and it's the reason for Kuina's self doubt and ultimate demise. Since Zoro is a guy Wado didnt feel the need to "rebel", The Minority Hunter with a Sexist sword....
ive always felt like the whole not being able to take over the dojo "in her current state" was talking about her doubt. the whole thing in one piece when it comes to dreams is that whole "f the world i do what i want" attitude so she could never accomplish her dream if all it took to scare her off of it was someone saying "yeah but you are a girl". so as long as she doubted her own dream her dad couldn't let her take over
I mean it also could have been her lack of humility, having an obnoxious master can kill a dojo. If she never lost that "better than thou" attitude, and took over, it would ultimately ruin all the effort her dad went through to try and establish his dojo as well as give the village more of a reason to look down on her and her capabilities and push the mindset that women can't be warriors without them being completely undesirable because of what it does to their personality much less any scars from injury. The village has an old world way of thinking, so her taking over the dojo in general would have gotten him sideways glances in general. But if she continued with that personality of hers, it would have poisoned the water for any other female swordsman. Her dad would know better what is needed of a Master to successfully lead a dojo, it probably would have been better if she left the dojo out of it and wanted to be a traveling swordsman.
You could be right, considering that beyond East Blue, there's tons of female swordswomen, many found within Big Mom's crew.
Kuina in the live-action destroyed me, how it made me wish so much that she didn't die. I didn't strictly count but she could've killed him least 3x in that duel to death. The action sequence was sooo good. They did a great job at portraying just how much stronger she was compared to Zoro that's why it pains me so much that she's gone.
Koushirou's demeanor can be explained by him being that rare type of people that take the world - as it is. Regardless of what happens, they think it should have happened like that, and that even if there is no visible reason for it to happen, that it was all part of a greater plan/destiny/fate. He's just taking Stoicism to another level.
Now in a twisting manner he might not be guilty from killing Kuina since he thinks he was his duty to stop her from becoming a swordwoman.
I am so happy Condoriano was mentioned here. You just can't hate that guy, he's just so lovable.
i like how in the live action, it is just said she died with some kind of mysterious look on their face with no explanation of how. which makes me think that the director definately knew about kuina's death being controversy and had it play out like that in purpose.
given the staff working on ut are bug OP nerds, i wouldn't doubt it
I just assumed not mentioning stairs is because the setting they used for shimotsuki village was just a flat bit of woods with no buildings, the only stairs we see are the 1-2 steps up to the sparring ring
Honestly, I wish it stays like this. This was a good backstory and makes so much sense. The message is great as well, humans are fragile. Also it was early One Piece, like Shanks lost his arm to basically a fish. As Oda kept writing, the story became bigger and characters got way more plot armor.
humans are fragile.... in real life, not in one piece. example: pell
Virgin Beta Kuina: _dies from falling down d. stairs_
Gigachad Sigma Pell: *survives a literal fucking nuke*
She better be a virgin, the girl’s like 10
I don't think Ivankov would have done the thing to kuina even if she asked. Her problem is not one of sex, rather it's her mindset that's the problem. Ivankov would probs realise that and decline the sex change
"Listen, I did what you're asking for somebody else who wanted it for the same reason once before, and that guy's a real jerk now - abandoned his kid, leads a crime ring, and is scheming to take over a country. So I decided I won't do it again for anyone who just wants strength and not to make their outside match who they are on the inside. Besides, your dad's wrong about women. You need to learn about something called haki - it doesn't care about sexual dimorphism, and it's way more important to being a great fighter than any factor that does. Unfortunately I can't stay to be your teacher, but let me show a few things to get you started."
I like the gender change theory because it sets up Kuina vs Zoro as one of the final fights. Especially if Kuina beats mihawk first.
@TheGhostCrawler-eq4jk in that scenario, why would kuina need a sexchange for that though? That can happen with her being a female
Does it ever say Kuina died the next day?
In the manga I read it as the flashback jumping to the next important event to keep it short, meaning any amount of time (provided it’s short enough that Zoro didn’t visible age) could have passed.
In the live action I definitely felt that her death was after enough time had passed so that Zoro and Kuina meeting to duel outside of regular training was just part of their schedule.
DOWN D. STAIRS is a menace
Padmé Amidala: *”I have taught her well”*
I think we're looking at this too hard. I think the ridiculous nature of Kuina's death is symbolic of the fact that no matter how strong you are death can come for us anytime and anywhere. Death was the only thing that defeated Kuina so Zoro throughout his journey has to defeat death, which he has on several occasions. Overcoming Death for Zoro is in essence surpassing Kuina.
"I think we're looking at this too hard"
*proceeds to elaborate harder
@@GoodwillWright when I say looking too hard I meant trying to find a logical explanation. My idea is philosophical not logical
I would say that the fact that the Wado seems to have shown no personality of it's own so far could be interpreted as evidence that it does have a will if it's own, at least to an extent. Think about it: it's a special sword made by the same guy who made Enma, but it's never displayed any will of it's own as far as we can tell. Which to me suggests that it's accepted Zoro as it's ideal wielder because it's never fought against Zoro's will at all. And the timing of Kuina's death could mean that it decided it wanted to be wielded by Zoro when Kuina used it against Zoro, and then it turned against her afterwards. Which could also explain why her father handed Wado off to Zoro. Because after she died, as the master he is (who has undoubtedly wielded the Wado in the past), he likely would have felt the Wado's will reaching out towards Zoro. Also, if the Wado has a will of its own and is capable of manipulating Haki through it's own will the same way Enma does, this could also help explain how Zoro started accidentally learning to use Haki before any other member of the crew: because Wado was slowly exposing him to it's own Haki over time. I'm not saying any of this is true, just that it could potentially explain a lot of you connect the dots this way, but I'm not expert and I have no doubt someone could easily debunk this idea or possibly provide better evidence for it.
That interesting but I think it does have a will of it own but unlike what you said. I think the reason it never flared up against zoro is because it lost its will when kuina died/disappeared. So maybe in the future if kuina is alive similar to how hyori's enma go powerd up when it heard her guitar thing, I think zoro will get into the vicinity of kunia one day if she's alive then wado will start exerting it's own personality as it gets its will back.
Or tbh it unlocks when fighting shyriu or something and let's him legit cut nothing like his master said.
@@forsterjurgen Their family should know the secrets of how sword 'souls' work right? So my wishful theory is that Kuina basically did some form of ritual. Possibly a forbidden one so she could imprint her own will or soul into the sword. Why? Because she truly believed Zoro would become the world's greatest swordsman. And if she could not be that... Well the next best thing was to be his ally, to be his sword!
@@zhoupact8567 Tbh anything like that I would really like to see.
I think it was a collaberative effort between Down D. Stairs, Con D. Oriano and Ask D. Question, to make sure Kuina would not find the one piece
I think it serves as a reminder to us how deadly household accidents can be. More people die unfortunate stupid deaths like falling down the stairs than fictional pirate battles.
I always felt like it was implied she committed suicide.
Same
Same
Yeah
*Yeets self to death*
Turns out she was pushed
I always thought that Kuina's death was a s*icide. Of course her father wouldn't tell Zoro that, because he was way too young. But think about it. Again and again she beats her greatest challenger and still she is convinced that she has no chance in the long run due to the physical limitations of her sex. And in her mind she would probably only slow Zoro's progress down of they continue to spar. Maybe a bit dark, but that was early one piece for you.
Imagine she wasn’t a kid and realized she lived a fantastical world with fruits that grant abilities or about Haki and all that other stuff that doesn’t discriminate. Hahah RIP dumbass girl
I mean, if the idea of items and swords being able to hold a will or spirit of sorts was always a thought for the series. Including the possibility of items being imbued with devil fruit powers. Would it be all that strange if Kuina's family knew various sword secrets. Like a forbidden ritual to imprint once own soul into a sword?
I have a wishful thinking thing where I kind of wish that Kuina gave up her body and practically everything else life has to give, wanting to follow Zoro as his blade because she truly believed that he would one day become the greatest swordsman. She would follow him, not as a rival but as his trusty sword. One day becoming the sword of the greatest swordsman and possibly also the world's most powerful blade.
I warned you Dawg! I warned you about those stairs!
Early on, oda thought the story would be edgier. Kuina dies from so little to set the tone that death could be anywhere and life is very easy to lose. Oda quickly realized that’s less fun than keeping people around. Kuincident is a kuincidence.
I feel like memories in One Piece are just what happends in that characters head. People usually picture themselves as older people when looking back at being kids. This is my head canon to fix Shanks and Buggy looking old and pimp Rayleigh
Tashigi being Kuina is obviously not true. Though I still hold out hope that there's SOME connection. And since we are in the final arc presumably, I'm just holding out hope we get ANY kind of resolution for this. I think if Tashigi wasn't in One Piece, people would have stopped thinking about Kuina's suspicious death a long time ago.
So is she/he Mihawk Instead?
Tashigi means "common snipe" in japanese. I'm pretty sure she is Kuina and oda is just keeping us on a snipe hunt for as long as he can.
Honestly I think Oda was planning on doing something with Tashigi and Zoro that was dropped.
Like even if she wasn’t meant to be Kuina, and her appearance is just 100% a coincidence, I expected a character arc or something where Zoro would come to terms with Kuina’s death through his interactions with Tashigi. Something along those lines
But nope. Seems at this point like Tashigi’s similarity to Kuina will never be brought up again.
@@Rykiz_Vidz that is impossible as Mihawk was present at Gol D. Rogers death and was already in his twenty's then, so unless he de-aged, changed sexes and identities and then changed back, it's impossible.
I'm of the opinion that this is a mix of power creep and the fact that the East Blue is the weakest, so Kuina would logically be more fragile than the monsters we meet later on. Seriously, I get the feeling that if Kuina had met just one female fighter from the Grand Line, she'd change her mind about becoming the Greatest Swordsman pretty quickly.
I think the fact the sword showing no personality so far is the biggest clue. I think she maybe sacrificed herself, or just "transported" her soul into the sword.
Maybe she was a reflection of the swords will, and was testing zoro?
0:20 Kuincident is a terrible but hilarious pun.
Kuina's death was odd, but not unusual for One Piece's storytelling. She was Zoro's motivation to become the best swordsman in the world. Every character in Luffy's crew, EVEN BROOK, has an otherworldly motivation to become the best of the best.
Nami loses Nojiko and wants to protect her home,
Luffy is drilled by Garp and motivated by Shanks to become a pirate,
Zoro loses Kuina and carries on her life-long wish along with his own,
Sanji has a near-death experience but is saved by Zeff and taught about the All-Blue,
Nico Robin loses her home village to the World Government including numerous good friends who protected her,
Brook loses his own crew and carries on without them for Laboo as well,
Franky loses his only father figure with Fishman Tom and loses control of his life before his new family urges him to become the best shipwright,
Chopper is rejected by his own kind, eats a devil fruit and then gets taken in by a kind human called Hiriluk who makes him his assistant. Knowing Hiriluk was ill and dying, Chopper tries to cure him and instead brings him a lethal poison because he doesn't know what he's doing, followed by Hiriluk's suicide so the poison wouldn't take his life and force Chopper to blame himself
Even Ussop, who most people would joke about for being relatively tame compared to everyone else's trauma experiences his own redemption arc in Water 7 when he realizes that the Going Merry won't be able to continue on. He realizes that the adventure ahead requires terrible sacrifices and overcomes his own ego for the sake of his friends.
This is a long comment but I'm trying to say Kuina's death is that and not much more. It was a plot a device to help the viewer understand why Zoro has such an insane ambition, even willing to fight Mihawk blind-sighted.
For nami it wasn't Nojiko it was Bell-mère. Nojiko was her sister.
I also think this. Plus Oda wasn't as good of a planner or author back then. He was just trying to stay afloat and still be published in shounen jump. So there are some inconsistencies throughout one piece that are because the series was probably longer than he anticipated. Which kinda sucks but at the same time if everything was planned out we probably wouldn't get certain arcs because he wanted to try something new.
I agree Kuina’s death iby falling down the stairs is just that simple . But Zoro’s crazy ambitions were already there, it’s why he challenged the dojo and Kuina in the first place. Her death might have made thise ambitions even stronger but he already wanted to be the best swordsman before that. We still didn’t get a decent background for Zoro to be honest, what triggered his ambitions to begin with.
@@jarosbodytko6462 Zoro had ambition, but I don't think he had the resolve to carry through his ambition until he meets Kuina and experiences her subsequent death. I feel like, without Kuina, Zoro would've fought Mihawk and either died or given up. He would've settled for "being strong" instead of "being the strongest".
She decided to commit Sudoku.
Down D stairs, the final villain of one piece
People have taken Koushirou's statement about Kuina's gender in a negative light, which is the reason some people believe he actually killed her. But I don't think that's the case. Remember that Shimotsuki is a heavily japanese-inspired village, as it was founded by people from Wano. And sadly, this view toward women isn't too uncommon in Japan, as well as other countries. So I don't think he said it to be mean, this is just the "culture" of the village.
It is especially not uncommon considering that men generally are stronger, bigger, essentially just tougher which makes Kuina‘s statement about her sex and zoros answer all the more relatable.
Plus his dad was a noble, and the tend to have a harder time moving away from the old ways.
@@matthewsteenson6903 I mean, he worded it harshly, but he wasn't wrong to believe that ig?
It being "the culture" doesn't make it sound any less toxic, especially in a setting like One Piece.
@@AnonEcho98 jesus, „toxic“ is such a meaningless word. Holy shit, what do you actually mean? Do you have the vocabulary to use a different word, please?
One upon a time, here in Brazil, "fell down the stairs" was a veiled way to say "murdered". I know it has nothing to do with Oda or Japan but I find it a fun coincidence.
Aren't there a lot of people of Japanese extraction in Brazil? I've always understood Japan to have an interesting connection to Brazil, so... maybe?
@@connorscanlan2167 actually yes. Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside Japan and some descendants of immigrants went back to Japan and it's a whole phenomenon there.
But it doesn't have anything to do with Kuina because Zoro's original flashback predates the Brazilian show that started the saying by about 4 or 5 years.
@@pedroviniciuspreiswelter4710 Ah, I see now. I was wondering where the saying had come from, but I didn't realize it was so recent an idea.
Lord Down D. Stairs doesn't need another top tier to split the skips, he just stares at the sky and the heavens clears up
Bro kuincident for sure got me😂😂😂😂😂
the argument of "women can never be physically as strong as men" is so dumb in one piece. we have 30 feet tall humans, giants, fishmen, minks, and devil fruit users, being female does not matter much if any. not to mention one of the strongest character is a regular sized human with one arm and no devil fruit
The culprit of Kuina death was the user of the stair stair fruit
Kuina is the man marked with flames on the black ship creating whirlpools to peotect the 4th road poneglyph confirmed
"Down D. Stairs" is hilarious.
I like to believe zoro strives for the biggest bust size in one piece only to prove kuina wrong
Shame on me for laughing at this
So we all agree Kuina is Mihawk
That’s not possible because Mihawk was shown as a young man at Rogers execution, there’s too much of an age difference for that to work.
100%
@@kevinsharp45in hulks voice
"Time travel!!"
Your videos are like morning cartoons for me, love em
RIP kuina, you would've loved elevators
I understand why so many One Piece-Fans always think of Kuina's death as somewhat unbelievable, considering the injuries characters of the series have survived (and of course because her death seems unceremonious and meaningless). But it is still somewhat ironic because people ACTUALLY DIE from falling down the stairs in real life. Maybe there is a secret (I wouldn't mind that), but I also wouldn't mind the current version. Nothing is more tragic than a death that seems so senless and meaningless. Unworthy to the character, true, but many people die unworthy deaths. It shows how fragile a life can be, how easily and sudden it can end and how important it is to pursue your dreams and goals, before your life is over. Because it can end tomorrow or even sooner.
Facts
Even in the real world mostly extreme fragile old people die from that, so it's just not believable for someone who used to beat up a superhuman kid in a world were people constantly survive the most lethal things.
Mostly perhaps, but not all the time. Kids and adults still die from the most trivial of causes in real life@@gunchar06
Also the people that survive that crazy stuff in One Piece are still somewhat trained or used to conflict or have a stronger will than the regular background or secondary characters. I highly doubt Kaya, Makino or Genzo would survive a canon ball to the face.
At the end of the day, we can speculate all we want but the writer decides how strong or weak a character is for story purposes. And if Oda feels that Kuina has to die by falling down the stairs so that Zoro’s story gets more meaningful, then that’s what happened.
It’s like those stories where Batman kicks Superman’s ass. We all know it doesn’t make sense but if the writer wants Batman to win, he’ll win.
It also feel like in backstories characters play by different rules and are a lot more human in regard to their constitution and resilience. Like if Conis' father being smited happened in a backstory he would be dead
@@placate9051with the way back stories happen in One Piece, probably true
So now we are doubting Down D. Stairs?
Jajajajajajaja Liam went from "I don't buy too much into theories" to "Kaido is Kuina"
Well in some corners of Japan "falling down the stairs" was a popular way of saying they did it themselves😬
I often think it must've been part of a plot thread oda originally planned but never found the correct time or place to devote space too, maybe we can hold hope that he's still got it locked in the chamber for "eventually" tho
I really liked the idea that the wado ichimonji was testing Kuina, like enma did with Zoro, and she failed which led to her death in some way or the other. That'll be my head cannon if we never get any more explanations.
i dunno i can't buy this explanation, she was a amazing swordsman. Better then zoro, i think she would have passed this test.
@@SleepinInsomniac Yeah, that's the biggest hole in it - she was better than Zoro at the time, so if that was what happened it would have tested him (and he would have failed) too.
Gotta love that characters like Pell can survive city sized explosions but Kuina can't survive tripping
You could say her dream was just a few steps away
I prefer the timeline where I just take it as it is where Kuina died due to an accident. No more "dark" back stories please. Thank you very much.
Ya I think people just like to over complicate things
The problem is just, that accident makes absolutely no sense for someone who could beat up a superhuman kid in a world where people constantly survive the most lethal things.
@@gunchar06 it does make sense, they are kids and people die from falling down the stairs in real life a lot, also those people that survive lethal attacks are outliers not the norm
@@LinkJTO Bro Zoro was as kid already a blatant superhuman and Kuina could still beat him up, so how does it make any sense that a logically also superhuman kid died from something that in the real world mostly kills extreme fragile old people?
@@gunchar06 ok, they weren’t super humans, sure they could beat adults but that’s still not superhuman, second they almost always dueled with bamboo swords so they wouldn’t leave any lasting damage, second it’s heavily implied that when Kuina fell she fell on her sword
I think it odd that there’s such a conspiracy with this. Essentially any scenario where Kuina survives ruins the main point of Zoro’s backstory, and I don’t think it’d be an interesting twist.
I always thought the implication was she got killed by Wado when falling down the stairs while carrying it (though theory 2 may be an interesting possibility because if this), as opposed to how many people seem to think it was literally just falling down some stairs
Agreed! I always assumed she landed in a way where she hit her neck/head against the edge of a stair in a fatal way, and never even considered the additional danger of Wado. Humans are very durable but also very fragile.
oda gonna pull an obito watch
I swear i once heard that in japan " falling down the stairs " was code for suicide when no one wants to admit mental health was an issue and suicide is still considered super shameful
That stair shot in her TikTok gave me real dreamcore vibes.
SHE'S ALIVE!! She fell down the D.Stairs, got knocked out. Doctors thought she was dead but she wasn't (plenty of real life stories about this happening) They bury her body or partial bury her, she pulls a "Kill Bill" or something and breaks out of burial not remembering a thing. Wanders around gets found and saved by marines and becomes Tashigi... how do we know that Kuina didn't need glasses while reading? When she got older she needed her glasses all the time. I bet if she was wearing her glasses she wouldn't have fallen down D.Stairs. So the picture of Tashigi when she was young reading the book kind of fits in....
This thumbnail was one of the best on the channel❤
Great that you inculded that bit on the myth of the falling down the stairs thing. People say it nowadays like it is a fact that she took her own life because they believe that this is actually a thing
I think Oda killed her off because he had a premonition that many years later a criminal named Monica Rial would re-dub Kuina's voice in English. Why he didn't kill of Tashigi for the same reason, I don't know.
I think it's more powerful and incredibly sad that it's actually just an accident. I always imagined that Kuina was running excitedly to their fight, too excited in fact, causing her to fall.
And Kuina might still be alive if Kid Zoro didn't cheer her up
In the manga kuina dies the next day. It really seems like Oda intended to do the suicide story line for her but may have decided against it at some point. The most likely current answer is that after their duel, Kuina intended to do traditional maintenance on the Wado. As she went down those stairs certainly with Wado in hand, something happened. I do believe she is dead and that Tashigi is her clone. Separated by 1 year. That's time enough to obtain her body/DNA sample and clone her. I'm 100% convinced we will revisit this when we find out what the importance/spirit of the Wado Ichimonji truly is.
Tashigi's older though
What I think is that I would be pretty frustrated if Tashigi never does become truly important, because her introduction and he Kuina comparisons made me REALLY interested and invested in her.
Kuina: hey I got surprised for you. ???:this sounds like a conversation we should have at the top of the stairs
Ok now hear me out.
"She fell down some stairs" as in "she failed to step up".
As in, she was so skilled that she was ready to use cursed blades with Haki but her life force was so weak it drained all of it and she died. She fell down at the stairs of success. She died chasing her dream.
This makes a lot more sense to me given what we know of the story so far.
I actually like where thise is going. Her ambition was what killed her. More poetic than just dying by falling down the stairs. It also adds more meaning to Zoro surviving Enma's haki drain.
I genuinely believe the theory that Kuina is Tashigi or at least related to. We still haven't really know where Tashigi actually come from most likely she have wano lineage. And it's just convenient that Tashigi reappear and likely going to play big role again for the final saga
I originally thought she died from a sickness. Guess that was my own personal Mandela effect.
Kuina is now a boy thats been transformed.
Love waking up to a new GLR ready to distract me at work
Love getting ready to sleep to a new GLR ready to remind that my sleep schedule is a mess.
@@Magnet_Chaos never alone nakama
I'm concinced, it was suicide due to her conflicts about being a woman and the way her father delivered the news.
He was looking at the ground while telling Zoro knowing he failed his daughter.
It would make sense too since suicide is a more than normal sensitive topic in Japan and Oda might have been censored in some way
it just makes sense, right? why would oda bring up the gender problem if it didnt amount to nothing?
@@brenoobr The gender problem was for kuina having a dream to become the strongest and having that dream pass on to zoro.
She died after getting a sword sharpener from the storage room. The only reason she needed one because she had a real sword fight with zoro.
With no one to blame for the death, or zoro blaming himself we never know if he did.
Zoro can carry her dream and become the number one swordsman.
@brenoobr Because its another form of the "Achueve your Dreams" motto One Piece proudly states and how anyone can do it
In this case, Kuina believes herself to be inferior by her own nature as a woman, and Zoro is meant as the narrative element that declares that being a man, woman or amything does not stop you from achieveing your dreams and becoming great, it's the One Piece message of "There's frestness on everyone, and nobody is lesser than anyone else"
plus its an incredibly relatable thing to many women irl who are constantly told, or even internalize, that men are always naturally superior in everything and that they should just give up and do what's expected of her
@@brenoobryeah i'm not sure what the two guys above are trying to say but for me it's 100% suicide. Like you mentioned, it makes sense with the whole identity problems she was having.
Just thought about this too, but she died right after making that promise with Zoro, I think she was satisfied enough with knowing someone will acomplish it and then decided to do it
Amazing video
great writing!
It was an accident she fell down the stairs
Theres still a good chance that Kuina is Tashigi. In return for helping Dragon, Koushirou asked a favor later on to take her daughter with him(Which I think they faked her death for reasons only oda knows as this time) and since there are no proficient sword user in the Revolutionary army, He decided to drop her off with Garp and have the goated Bogart train her. And more importantly to ease the parting with her village and for her to have a fresh start Dragon had kuma removed parts of her past memory in regards with her ties from the village except her passion as a swordsman. Hence why she still love swords.
the Kuma part is cool
Kuina dying by stairs has to be the only normal thing in one piece and thats what makes it hard to believe
For someone so skilled at swordsmanship, which requires footwork, you'd think they aren't clumsy enough to fall down a set of stairs.
The last theory doesn't make sense because why would Kuina not take Wado Ichimonji with her. There is no reason to believe she would leave it behind in order to pursue the path of the swordsman.
Adaptations aside, just looking at the original manga pages by Oda, my guess would be implied suicide. I have three reasons:
1. We're not shown her face when she clasps hands with Zoro, so we don't know what she was feeling. She might have been happy to hear those words from Zoro, but not convinced by them.
2. At the funeral, Zoro yells that she's trying to "run away from their promise". As if her death was a choice on her part.
3. Kuina's father uses the word "moroi", which does mean fragile, but is a word that is also often used in a context of emotional and spiritual weakness. I think a better translation might actually be "brittle".
In the manga Kuina says that her father told her that "women can not become the strongest in the world". He might be correct about that part (although after seeing Big Mom, who knows), but since we don't actually see her father say it himself, I think Kuina might have misunderstood what he meant. Being the BEST does not equal being the STRONGEST. If it did, no one would ever need to fight, all you would have to do is make a strength ranking. But we all have seen Luffy (and others) beat enemies who are technically stronger than he is again and again. She would have to move past her fixation on physical strength and find a way to fight that would move her forward. One reason that Kuina's father gives away her sword so easily could be that he felt that he had failed her so completely that only Zoro is worthy to carry on her will.
Otherwise, I think that her death being faked for some reason also is fairly beliveable. Zoro isn't allowed to go near the body, so it might have been a fake, and Kuinas father is only shown in a way that makes it impossible to see what he's thinking and feeling.
Pretty sure oda himself said she just fell down the stairs and there's nothing more to it
Oda literally confirmed in an SBS she just fell down the stairs.
@@brodiethomlinson9042 Which one?
@desolateleng9943 I think it was in an interview, either way we see a grave that says Kuina that her dad brings a newspaper with zoro in it to her grave so she's definitely dead. It's one of the covers during the bounty poster cover story if you wanna see it.
@@Comuniity_ I don't doubt that she's dead, I only think it was left intentionally ambiguous whether she committed suicide or not.
There are two things I remember from the time that this episode ran in the anime... One Piece didn't air on Sunday mornings, and it was clear to everyone that Kuina had been saved from the Terrible Secret of Space by a Pusher Robot (or maybe a Shover Robot).
"Committing Outro isn't part of One Piece Ideologies and the Anime is Against it"
KAIDO: Hold My Beer 🍺🍺🍺
The most puzzling thing about Kuina's story is, it really feels like Oda was setting up something down the line with Tashigi but then went "Nah... Let's end this story here and move on to something else."
I guess, on some meta level, that COULD be considered an echo to Kuina herself, who was showing the premises of a long, passionate story, with both hardships and successes, and Down D. Stairs just went "Nah... let's end this story here and move on to something else."
That being said, I really love the theory of Ivankov being involved. And considering we know for a fact there is a "secret" linking Crocodile and Ivankov, but we still do not know what, we haven't had a single additional detail or callback on that matter in literal decades, it would seemt that Iva-san takes privacy VERY seriously and keeps secrets absolutely safe.
I legit think Oda’s intentions 20 years ago was to make Kuina died because of her father who secretly wanted a male heir. But decided to abandoned the idea because it was too dark, either for him or for the Jump.
I think we are forgetting the bigger picture. Kuina was there to provide Zoro with a reason to be the strongest. A friend, a promise, an unfair death, no one to blame for it, and now Zoro has to fulfill his promise.
If Oda says that Tashigi is what Kuina would be, I would be really sad😢
Wado's agenda is my favourite. Like Yoru waiting for his real wielder