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I had a 166 Facelift V6 with Automatic in the absolutely stunning colour Nuvola Azurro (pearl blue metallic that shifts colours depending on the light) - I drove it for a year and no issues with it, other that a rear no longer responding to the central locking, the most reliable car I ever had. And 0 depreciation too, bought it for 5000 and sold it a year later for 5000 as well. I sold it because I found the suspension too hard for my taste on longer journey. This was 1 of only 2 cars that I owned where I sometimes just looked out of the window to enjoy it's beauty (the other one was an E34).
@@rs48635 My boss's Mercedes E-class did that to me; and my own E60 BMW as well - while at a workshop warming up for an oil change - it only has to happen to you once and you never forget! :-)
I owned a 1999 166. It was, by a long way, my favourite car ever. I did 112 thousand trouble-free miles. It was great fun to drive. Since then, I've owned Jags and E Class Mercs, and none have been as enjoyable to own and drive as the Alfa.
I had both a 2003 alfa romeo 166 3.2 and a 2005 XJ8 4.2. The Jag was a segment bigger, ok, but it wasn't even close. The british car was 10x better in every single category. I actually had the XJ untill last year when I decided to get an EV to replace my loved.
Hi James; I've had both the 156 and 166 Alfa Romeos; both with V6 motors, the 156 was manual and the 166 automatic. I really enjoyed my 156, but my 166 was a car I truly loved. Very fast, very, very comfortable, and surprisingly reliable. I kept both cars for a year, but then was offered an exchange - for a Lancia Thema 8/32. Of course I accepted and that Lancia was the only car I've ever owned that nearly cost me my nice clean licence! As you may be aware, I'm settled into Lexus now, but I'd still buy a 166 if a good one came up.
@@adamf8335 With 12 years of experience with cars commonly saw as unreliable, I have observed that most complaints come from people who never owned them. Imho, Italian cars fall into category of 'not for idiots'. You have to know a few things and put some actual maintenance into them and then they'll outlast any German car with very little spending. Italian cars are not perfect, but If you have some knowledge and are willing to put minimum effort, they are probably the most pocket-friendly cars on the planet. My family always drove Italian cars, I had 4 so far (2 still in my posession) and they never failed me on the road or drained my pocket, or corroded! I just know how to maintain and conserve a car, and it's a lot cheaper than buying a German car twice the price of an Italian.
@@piotrmalewski8178I agree, I enjoyed a 156 for a couple of years as a company car. It was the twin spark 4 cylinder motor but was still lively. One of the best handling cars I ever drove.
I'm driving 166 for 15 years now and this is fantastic 4-person grand tourer :) No steering issues if you look after the suspension and use 17/18-inch wheels. Great car, especially with Busso engine!
What engine do you have and how many miles did you manage in 15 years? Might get one but I'm kinda afraid of the maintenance costs, especially if it ends up fixing one issue after the other.
I had a 166, one of the best cars i have owned, i cant remember steering being bad, maybe the one you were driving had some issue, otherwise the 166 is an amazing car.
German Wolfgang Egger designed the Alfa 166 facelifted version was so beautiful better than the opposition! Lancia Kappa was a great large executive in that era too known in Holland as the "Italian Mercedes" due to its high mileage capabilities!
I owned 3. All diesels. No issues with it. I do not agree about the quality and no vague steering around the centre. Solid. Great cruiser and travelled to France and Italy without any problems and economie. no: very good economy. And a lot of admirers. The mistake was that Alfa did not offer an automatic for the diesel in the first series. In The Netherlands customers of the German brands wanted an automatic. I really hate all the comments of Jay about Alfa's falling apart on you. Who told you that? You (and other journalists) keep using little sceptical comments 'below the belt' to keep the myth alive. Yes the red lacquer was notorious for fading. That is a fact. It was one of the first water based paints. I still own an almost 30 year old unrestored Spider V6. Never let me down. Correct maintenance and good oil and also an Alfa will not let you down.
I had a 166 super for 16 years and did 220k miles in it before it blew its head and tore its back end suspension apart. Never experienced that steering weirdness you seemed to have here. Such a shame but I personally think if you can get a t66 that is lower mileage today for around 5k, it'll be the best 5k you've spent in your whole life.
I owned my 3ltr 166 for 12 years from new and drove 130k miles in it. Never had any problems with reliability and drove her to Milan for the Alfa 100 Factory event. On the second day, we did a 7 hour drive from Metz to Lake Orta (over the Alps) and it was just the best day's driving i've ever done. Got to the hotel and I was still fresh as a daisy and could have easiily driven further. The 166 was a wonderful long distance touring car - effortless cruising on the Autobahn at 120mph+. I now drive an Alfa Guilia and it's just about perfect but I do miss the Busso soundtrack! Frankly, I don't care what anyone else thinks, I absolutely loved that car.
Problem with cars this age is even if they have low mileage, the rubbers in the bushings and linkages are going to be getting perished, so unless they've been replaced, they just aren't going to handle like they did when they were newer.
@@alphatrion100 check out the version from last years of production. I have a 2007 one and its simply beautiful, especially with the right 18 inch wheels
Front wheel drive is more fun in the corners using your break and gas at the same time. Having the car pull you down the highway is for cruising. It's fun going up and down hill in front wheel drive too so changing elevation is fun
I used to have a 2.0 TS one. Loved it despite the cam belt failing which caused a long winded warranty claim. The interior was amazing, handled well for a big car and the headlights were epic. I had mine converted to lpg due to high daily mileage and eventually the engine blew. I was gutted to see it go.
Interesting. My LPG converted 147 2.0 TS also blew it's cambelt, less than 10k after it was replaced! I swore never to own another 4 cylinder Alfa after this.
2.4 JTD used as a private cab, mostly airpost run. Retired after 18 years and close to 400K. Only due to emission regulations. Still ran like a champ, quick also, customers are always in a hurry.
The 2.0 TS was famous for cooking the rod bearings after some mileage. Here in Italy it's a very well known fact, so we all know to take it to the mechanic to get them changed periodically, maybe it's not that known in the UK. Not sure whether it's related to your failure in particular but yeah sorry that happened to you.
I own the pre-facelift in black, I think the walter de silva design frontend fits the rest of the car a bit better. I like the 166 because it is unusual and a bit mysterious. And also a unicorn when you see it on the road. I think most people dont know this car exist and are intrigued when they turn their head.
Sounds like it needs a suspension refresh and a 4-wheel alignment. They are great to drive when properly set up, nice steering and a decent turning circle. Bit thirsty though.
The diesel is not as hard on the wallet and still quick too with a map. The alignment must be done by a professional that knows the car. A misligned 166 is dangerous.
Its just like im looking into my car, 3.0 V6 just that mine have a few options on top of the presented car! Its not as roomy as other cars of the age in that class (5-series, E-Class or A6) but have the best seats ever, comfy, soft and supportive! And the noise that V6 Busso combined with Zender exhaust system is EPIC!!! Got that car for around 2k pounds (5k leva as live in Bulgaria) about 3 years ago! Today is worth it about 3 times more at least in bulgarian market! People just go at the usual stuff like BMW and Merc and the nice and rare cars are left behind and they are rather cheap to buy since most people are not interested and have no idea how capable and special they are!
I own a 166 2.5 V6 24v, 1st series, Lusso, remaped to 202 hp on the dyno (from 188hp), 11/2003 REG, full leather like the car in the test, but silver & with the 17 inch. alfa dial wheels. 330.000 kms since new & maintain her like new! Glorious for high speed cruising, aerodynamic, silent traveler. Never had credibility issues. Busso engine also glorious. I will keep her in my garage forever, next to my 2.2 diesel Giulia I just bought. I think the 166 is already a collector's item.
I used to own a 166 before-facelift V6 Busso. What a car!! I was forced to sell it when moving abroad. Before selling it I recorded the sound of the engine. Driving it was always an occasion. --- so what did I get after 166? A Porsche 911. What a disappointment after the Alfa :-)
I had a 3.2 facelift 166 in black. Could really haul on the autobahn, once I had the needle going clear of the maximum indicated 260 - and not by a small margin. I don’t remember the steering being so bad, perhaps it was revised for the facelift? It was more of a luxury car, never felt light on its feet though it gave good feedback and the Q2 LSD was a great upgrade.
I believe you. Had a 3.0 6spd on a particularly quiet stretch of autobahn. Clocked 251kph on GPS, so I’m sure a healthy 3.2 with a bit more zest could do the business. .
I owned a 3.0 Sportronic (Auto) and loved the car, the only let down being the 4 speed Auto box. It was pretty quick but supremely comfortable over long journeys. I later had a 3.2 facelift manual. I much preferred the look and the gearbox was so much better. These are now amazingly rare as there were virtually non bought from new! Both cars felt solid and were reliable if well looked after. My Busso addiction is currently being fed by a 3.2 Spider!! Keep the quirky content coming Jay. Loved the 164 Q4 test. My dad had a couple of v6 164's back in the day - I was very happy to drive them as soon as I passed my test!!
Pre-face lift is waaaaaay better, but I know you are used to people disagreeing with you about this sort of thing! As always, another excellent vid. Keep em coming
Ross Brawns company car when he worked for Ferrari ...he had the 2.0 TS and thought the handling, steering and balance was sublime .... But what does he know ....lol
We had a 166 in the family 2.5 AT...it also had been neglected for years (in much worse state than this one). But after sorting everything, we really liked it. The front looks better every time you look at it, even more so if you understand this is the link between the squarer early '90s design and the more organic 156/147s. The interior does held up quite well and is a really nice place to be. Of course the screen looks dated (fun fact, the same system came in period Porsches) I miss the 166, we should've kept it.
Last year I acquired my first Alfa, one of a whole list that will probably become rather long. A 1999 166, with the modest 2.0 TwinSpark. Modest (compared to the E-segment in general) but certainly not lacking of soul, and still pretty smooth to drive every day. A great sound, reminiscent of the early Bialbero, yet entirely OEM. A remark I'd already read about the GTV 916, but I wasn't expecting the same treatment in a large executive saloon. A very neat design to my eyes, very satisfyingly coherent, and above all, perhaps one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful interior ever featured in a car. Especially with the beige Momo leather seats and the mahogany steering wheel. Surprisingly comfortable, despite the 18" wheelbase (only 40 of sidewall), and totally remarkable handling, which at first glance was really unexpected for a 4m73 car. This slightly odd feeling reported in the video may be due to the higher, more flexible sidewalls and a less sporty range of tires (I have similar tires to the Goodyear Eagle F1). I remember that even in Gran Turismo, the notes/reviews you could read before buying a car, attested to its behavior as far better than any of its rivals, even the German ones. Note that, living in France and with LHD, sales here were " much " better, without being remarkable though. So it's easier to find them in good shape than on your side of the Channel. And here at least, they hold their value quite well and have begun to increase (especially in v6 variants), following the trend of all the other Alfa of the early 2000s. I'll always remember its Clarkson test drive, surely one of the main reasons I bought one. I can't wait to finally get my hands on a Giulia 2.0 Lusso... Ever since it came out in 2016. I was able to test drive the Giulia, in 2.2 JTD, and what a car. Great video as always.
Watch out for the rod bearings of the 2.0 TS, they tend to get worn over time, I suggest checking and possibly replacing them after about 100k miles before you lose the engine.
@@manuelcatalano2412 Yeah I heard about that and plan to do it at the same time as I'd change the timing belt. Mine is pretty low mileage (118 00 km, the car, last belt done at 107 000 just before I bought it) and the next timing belt should be done around 150 000 km or in two years I think... The chain which link the two camshafts should be changed too at this time and I may have to get the variatore revised or replaced
I'll have to be financially stable in every sense before purchasing my first vintage car. The best thing to do with your money is to invest rightly till then
The best advice that i learned from Manny Koshbin is don't buy a vintage Super or Hyper car until you have 5 times the price of it in your Bank account, when you purchase a Super car you add a car to your garage but u add also maintenance and unexpected damages that can happen in future
I understand Manny advice but that's overkill. If most people did that - they would never own one. The 10-15% rule is enough - especially if you make even more with multiple streams of income. My investment properties pay for my exotics cars. It's many different things you can do to afford easily and responsibly. You don't need a million cash to afford a cheap 100k car.
If you have that much money sitting in your bank account, that means that you are not investing your money properly. Money sitting in the bank doesn't really do anything for you because interest rates are so slow. It's better to have $1 million in a place where it can make you 5% on returns rather than having that $1 million sitting in your bank account making you 0.5% returns.
True but Investors should also exercise caution with their exposure and exercise caution when considering new investments, particularly during periods of inflation. It is advisable to seek guidance from a professional or trusted advisor in order to navigate this recession and achieve potential high yields.
indeed, most people downplay the roles of professionals until burnt by there mistakes. Productivity is optimized and keeping up to date strategies and analysis makes it more lucrative. I've been able to navigate the volatilities and scaled up 880k from 220k with professional guidance.
Sadly mine was totalled in an accident last fall. Absolutely loved it! This car has character and that's exactly what I missed in other cars (specially a lot of modern ones). The ride is quiet sporty for this type of car and maybe this was a bit of a breaking point for the market then. The throttle response is fast and you can rev match perfectly! Nothing I would expect from a 90s/00s luxury upper class car. The busso engine is just a dream. Paired with a nice exhaust, pure perfection.
i love that car but in diesel version, here in Portugal there are a few ones with lots of km, and they keep going, the 2.4 jtd 5 cil. is so much reliable and alive, very god...👌
As a 15 year old in 1990 I had a Saturday job at an Alfa dealer and at the time the main cars were the Spider ( the finsl facelift one ), the facelifted 33, the 75 and the new 164. I loved that late 80's /early 90's design language. The looked so much cooler than anything else at the time. In the showroom they looked classy although the dealership never seemed that busy. Even now I'd own any of them ( in good condition ). I did manage to own a lovely 156 1.8TS which never let me down and was a very special car. However that cannot happen again as I'm a bigger Scooby fan and I not let mine escape
I used to have the 3.0 super with the very rare zender factory fitted bodykit. Consisted of front apron, side skirts and rear apron. Lowered it on eibach springs and had bbs replica wheels on it. Just up the ante completely in the looks department . Was a manual gearbox, silver with red leather. Was a lovely car
Used to own a lancia kappa v6 manual saloon. Bought for 700 quid .super comfy and very well screwed together compared to deltas .interesting to insure as no one had heard of it .always preferred the look of the 166 though 😊
I thik Clarkson once mentioned that Lancia pulled officially out of the UK somewhere around 1993. So indeed, it would not be sold officially there. I'm from Czech Republic and the Lancia was never officially sold there too. But I'm interested in hearing that the Kappa had rear trailing arm suspension, while in the Lybra, it has quite sophisticated multilink with passive rear wheen steering (and nobody can keep up with it in corners, except for some old Hondas).
Most excellent review. Interesting piece of kit the 166, lots of character and style- certainly compared to staid offerings from Fritz. That Busso V6........Glorious sound.
The paint turns pink because car is not garaged and not polished on a regular basis. The sunlight can do it ,if the car is left stationary in prolonged sunlight. It did not just effect Alfas , Vauxhalls , and many other red cars of the period were the same
To be fair Alfas after the war and until the early 1990s had never been famous for good steering: mk1 Giulietta and Giulia had a fairly slow unassisted steering when brands like Citroën and Mercedes already got much faster powered steering setups. Chassis were average too. It's from the late 1990s that Alfas *had* to have a good chassis and steering response, beforehand "sporty" meant "great engine sound and the car rattling" 😅
Steering is perfect on mine and handling is fine- rack, alignment or bushes might need attention, no interior quality issues apart from sticky plastic- nothing falling off. Plenty of room in very comfortable back seats for most passengers. Reviewer's past Alfa experiences seem to colour his perception of what is a 20 year old car. Good luck finding a Gta or 164QV in good condition at a good price. Gtas now highly sought after. Look up Clarkson's Top Gear video review and his book "I know you got soul" for chapter on why 166 despite not being as good as Germans is a fabulous car.
Ah yes, sticky plastic, typical of the Italian casr back then :D I have a 2000 Lancia Lybra and it already painted several legs of my "co drivers" after they fell for the temptation to rest it against the center console 🤣also the center arm rest is sticky, but the previous owner solved that with black electric tape 😁
James, do you believe in the old adage that you can’t be a true petrolhead until you own an Alfa? I must admit I love the chrome on the 3.2 v6 engine its just class. A car despite its flaws made with soul & passion missing from modern Audi/merc/bmw bought for badge.
We have an Alfa. Love it. Very few manufacturers manage to consistently create an exhaust note across the years and their models which instantly tell you who made the car.
Jay, Alfa's biggest mistake was making the Tonale into a Dodge Hornet and not making a Giulia coupe/covertible model. The brand doesn't need a substandard SUV that costs more than the Stelvio! And now supposedly they're going to make a 3rd smaller SUV! The brand was known for sports cars and convertibles. If people want SUV's, they can buy those elsewhere. What should we expect from an Italian legendary brand, now run by a Frenchman who can't pass up an all you can eat buffet?
JayEmm's analysis is spot on. I've had two 166s, both V6 Sportronics - a 2.5 and a 3.0. Both have been fantastic in their own way and great fun to drive. But when they start to get frail, they really do get frail and the bills can and will soon mount up. I've pretty much enjoyed every minute driving them, as long as you can get used to the fact that the 166 has the turning circle of an oil tanker and will be subject to the inevitable failure of anything with the word 'remote' in it about twelve months after purchase, whatever the year of manufacture. Having said that, as Clarkson quite rightly says, no self respecting petrol head can ever say they've lived, if they haven't owned a big Alfa.
I remember one of Alfa’s early entries into the US back in the early 80’s, the owner opened the hood and we all were wowed by the beautiful engine under the hood, it was European exotic and gorgeous! Then we realized it was Italian like a friend of mine who was a MGB fan said on those rare occasions when his light blue MGB was right, it was the greatest driving experience in the world.
The 2.5 V6 was the runt of th litter in the UK, hardly any quicker than the 2.0TS, way slower than the 3.0 V6 and actually thirstier than the 3.0. The auto was a disaster. To look at the facelift Ti's are the ones but the best to drive are the Mk1 3.0 manuals and they need to be on 17s, the car James has tested is on 16s, it made a big difference. The suspension was heavily bushed so to judge the car you need to review a car with recent bushes
Being from the 'colonies' over here in the USA - Alfa left in '95(before coming back in 2015) so we never had the opportunity to sample this successor to the to the 164. I've had a few 164's through the years (currently a 1995 Q) and while difficult (and expensive) to work on, for a big FWD saloon the 164's were competent, well handling cars. Sounds like the 166 is more of the same, though I agree that the facelifted version is the one I'd choose.
I had two (2.0 twin spark manual lusso full leather), this one and the facelift and I absolutely loved them. Never had any problems whatever the reputation of Alfa is
Sorry James, but you’re getting it wrong with the diesel part of the story. 2.4 is very powerful and efficient unit. Bulletproof reliability, 5 cylinders and rather pleasant sound, unlike the one provided from 1.9. I’m telling you all this, cause I actually have a ‘06 147 1.9 JTDm for the past, well, 17 years actually, and I’ve driven couple of 2.4 166’s, and they do 6-7 l/100km’s. I’d take that economy every day. My 2020 Giulia Veloce’s doing 14l/100km’s😂
There must have been something wrong with either tyres or suspension if the presenter has issues with steering - I own 166 and it's super precise . I owned bmw m3 f80, M440i, now I own Giulia Q, Stelvio and I have experience with other extrwmely well driving cars. 166 is supprosingly good to drive and reaponsive. This particular car requires service for sure.
Interesting film and some good drive-bys. The Busso V6 is probably the most glorious sounding V6 (except Dino V6) engine and Monsieur Clarkson felt the Italian interior was superb. However, each to their own I guess. Personally, I own two very late facelifts and thoroughly enjoy driving them. The 2 litre is actually a nicer, nimbler car to drive but the 3 litre lump can get up on its legs easily and do the corners as well.
I have a series one (pre facalift) like the ine in the video in silver 3.0 V6 i bought it almost 2 years ago and still in love with it, my brothere and i have 3 147s and 159 and the 166 is my favourite. It has really been reliable although it is an alfa. And they are appreciating now a days.
Great video as always. Thanks for doing a video on the 166, its lovely to see one without having to buy one first and likely buy a bag of issues. This one looks like a nice one.
Jokes aside, the sound system in the 166 have a 10 hp as standard (2 tweeters and 2 woofers at the front and rear doors + 2 subwoofers behind the rear seats) and have a really nice hi-fi rendering
nice vid, a friend of mine had a twin spark. he was happy with it. you should do a vid about the 155 q4 very rare car (underpinnings of the lancia delta integrale)
Loved my 166 3.0 V6 except for ongoing electrical fault which meant the fuel injector frequently stopped working and you had to stop, switch off and switch on again.
My father had the 5 pot 2.4 JTD. One of the few diesel I actually like. Good car, not as brilliant to drive as the 156 I gather, but great interior, confort and so on. I remember it was quite reliable but the Alfiat service was atrociously bad
Jay, FL 166 2.4 came in 20 valve 175 bhp multijet which was perfect for 166 even 10 valve 150 bhp was great when I drove it. Loved the 5-pot jtd in my 156 SW where it pulled like crazy and miss her as was special Azurro Nuvola sky blue🥲 Great content as always and thank you for finally taking the Ammiraglia( flagship) for a spin as who knows if we will ever get anything close to this from Alfa Romeo😔😪
Shame this review just regurgitated all of the usual journalist comments about Alfa 166’s. Having owned several along with owning an E39, the 166 is superior in just about every way.
Had an 02 3.0 Lusso and ran it for 58,000 miles. Don’t recognise your criticisms of the steering. Front end was underdamped so easy to ground it and crack undertray. Armrest blocked handbrake-very Alfa. Interior by Momo and engine by Busso. A lot to like…
I think the lack of steering precision he dealed with is due too some flexible tire sidewalls or aging silent-blocs (especially with a 10 year pause). I just love the steering of my 2.0 TS (which feel the same as the steering of a 2.5 v6 I did a test drive with)
I’ve had three 166s. All 2.0, my favourite being a Ti. Great cars and I always thought cheap for what they were. Wish I still had the Ti, for some reason I sold it for an Audi A4 3.0 cab, a big mistake. I thought the red ones used in the Tour de France around the Armstrong time were mega cool.
There is another reason why the 166 was delayed. Alfa needed a smaller model, a car that would sell in bigger numbers. Thus the management at Alfa Romeo concentrated more on the successor of the Alfa 155. The Alfa 166 was a beautiful car when was introduced, shame that it was not RWD.
I did own ALfa 166 with 2.5l busso. Engine note was amazing, I miss it a lot in my current 159 TI. Handling was just bad. Felt like a regular car from 90's. Not much better then my first car which was Ford Orion... Breaks weak, which was scary considering it was easly going 220 kph. Once I had a scary situation where I was sure the speed I am entering the corner was fast but should be fine but she decided that she did not like it and just went into absolute understeer and the tires cried. Thankfully I kept my cool and saved it and nobody noticed a thing xD So yeah... Mixed feelings :P Alfa 159 is amazing though.
Pretty hard to justify a respray on a car that is so inexpensive now. Blimey just got to the point where he's saying you'd pay five to six thousand pounds for a good one! In NZ you can pick one up thats in reasonable condition for five to six thousand dollars! So around half that! Mind you it's probably much easier to own one in the UK, I expect getting parts and work done in NZ would be a nightmare. Anyway might be worth spending some money on cosmetics after all.
How odd I'd just driven mine today and found your video afterwards 😂 Mine's a facelift. Busso, of course. Indeed is it odd but I still ADORE it when I look at it and drive it. It needs an open road, it is thirsty but the sound, the feeling of driving it, the leather and the rarity (in fact we love Alfas in Poland so I happen to meet one from time to time here). Hate the steering and the turning circle though. The car is just one of its kind and that is what I love about it ❤ So here's to Giuseppe Busso 🍷
I always liked the look of the 166, especially the facelift model. In a world where the obvious choice was the “i think my ***t don’t stink” Sim Simma, the Alfa offered as you said, a very interesting, and stylish alternative. And with that engine, it’s no wonder the boss of Cadbury wanted something as smooth and tasty as his chocolate. I’d just make sure I changed my best mate to a mechanic if I owned one
I think you are to negative about the 166. This is probably the least sporty Alfa of all time. The steering in the 3 liter is as you described. And the 3 liter engine is heavy so it feels heavy in the front. This was never ment to be a cornering car. However that said, apart from a few quirks in the interior like the sticky dashboard underpart and old satnav and so on, the quality is very decent. The don't rust heavy at all.(in the UK even stainless steel will rust 🤣) but it is well protected against rust. This car is ment for on the highway. And there it shines! I had the 3 liter Busso myselve and my brother still drives that car. The car has currently about 300 thousand kilometers. About 188K miles and only had some small issues. Engine is rock solid as well is the gearbox. On the highway it's pretty quite to drive. And from 60 to 120 miles it just goes so easy. It does not matter wich gear you are in, it's so supple! And as said it drives very well on the highway. Also the 4 piston Brembo brakes in front are doing their job very well. The only thing is that they did depriciate very fast. But they are climbing the good ones. Just like the 156 GTA that is becomming very expensive to find a good one. This is a very plesant daily driver that is reliable. Only big downside is it fuel consumption. The gasstation is your friend. And your wallet is not. But the glory of the engine does recover a lot of the pain felt at the gasstaion.
I had an ex-demo Lusso from 2000 to 04. It steered and went and rode very nicely and made a great noise from the 3 litre V6. It was quick enough, comfortable, and I also thought it was pretty, apart from the rather sad face. I got rid of it mainly because of the electrics. The battery frequently went flat, which I eventually found by accident was because it was turning its own parking lights on overnight. They were off when I left it, off when I went to start it next day, which it wouldn't. It was still under warranty but no number of garage visits, wiring checks or new switches or relays cured it. In the end I found the only cure was to leave it with the headlights switched to on when I turned off the ignition. My steering was fine with no noticeable dead spot around the centre but the car certainly did depreciate, from £24k to 8k in 4 years.
I had T Reg 166 V6 Super, and it was one of the most enjoyable cars I've ever owned. Mine had a lighter leather interior and Pearl paint, it looked fantastic. I can only assume there is something amiss with the front of this particular example, as mine was a joy to drive and could be placed with complete confidence. They can be prone to various electrical gremlins, but would it be a proper Alfa if it wasn't? The V6s are worth owning just for the engine, let alone being a rare and characterful alternative to an E39 or whatever.
166 Super has the STR button below the heating buttons: Sport Throttle Response a small lamp on this button goes on and you get moore boost and responsiveness when hitting the gas pedal.
owned a 2.4jtd facelift, steering 'weirdness' definitely was not present on my car, facelifted interior in beige leather was fabulous. Car was fun on major roads and highways, not necessarily on country lanes. Suspension is really complex, but drives really well. Fortunately sold it before spending thousands on it.
I think no one reviewed the proper 166, the 2L turbo. They all went or were given the top-specced 2.5, 3 or 3.2L V6 while ironically, the 2L turbo is the fastest and liveliest. As far as room in the back is concerned, the back is almost as good as driving it. I'm 1.92m tall and I fit in the back of the driver, no issue. Not that I'd mind being there, since the seats in the back are so comfortable and soft and a pleasure to sit in. IMO, silver/grey is the only paintjob that goes well with this car's styling . Everything else makes it look...well, just like in the video :)
@@Jack-cv4ke Hi, Jack. I own a 2L and have driven a 3.2L . Yes, the upper displacement versions pull differently. The 2L has two things going for it: 1. power-to-weight 2. The kick. And by "kick" I mean: all the way to redline, 'cause that's where all the power is. NA engines are linear. The turbo version has the advantages when it comes to power-to-weight and when it comes to being re-mapped. Ironically, my passion for the 166 started with the 3.2 Super and ended with the turbo. Some might say the 2L version is limited to 237KM/h while others might say (not me, of course 'cause that would be illegal) that at 3AM on a Hungarian highway that the car (not me) reached 280KM/h with 500RPM to spare on the tachometer. But hey, that's why cars are awesome. Or how some might say: "Without heart we would be mere machines" ;)
I had 2 of these both 2.5 V6. It gave me some great memories and experiences. Unfortunately the steering exploded and the other the dreaded rot. They led me to my gtv v6 I own now and a GT for daily
I wanted a 166 to be on my company car list in the early 2000s but it never appeared, possibly because there were no diesels and residuals were atrocious. I took a 2.5 Vectra estate and later, cash alternative.
I'm from Holland, I owned a 1999 dark blue 166 2.4 5cyl. diesel with yellow Koni's, A bit lowered, and according to my 5 year old son, it drove like a 911 ;-)). Well, it sertanly looked the part with the 17" 5 hole Speedline wheels and the yellow brake calipers. I had a two tone cream and black interior with cream leather seats. To me it was the most beautiful car in the world, and it never let me down once in the three years of ownership. I partted with it because of my own stupidity and the fact that is was eating a set of front tires in 6 moths. If I could find a decent one now, I'd buy it right away!
Another great review on another weird and wonderful car and even tested on roads very local to me (like less than 10 miles local) Those are some very nice bendy lanes and they really do make for a great looking video. I`ve never really understood the appeal of Alfa Romeo, especially these FWD cars, they just always seemed to be all style over substance. Not the quickest, not the best handling and most certainly not the best built! But i do like the looks of this model and LOVE the fact that we get to see and hear your opinion on this rare car.
I have an Auto 2007 registered V6 (apparently alfa found some RHD cars down the back of a sofa in Malaysia and sent them to the UK) which is a facelift. I hear they did make some alterations to the suspension for the facelift cars but all I do know is the turning circle is pretty good on mine. It is due to have a 4 wheel alignment as it's had a few ball joints done on the suspension for the MOT and seems to like munching rear tyres (only alfa could make a FWD car that eats rear tyres!) Running on LPG makes up for the lack of a tractor engine. Amazingly the only other 166 I have seen on the road while driving it was another facelift car! Worst part of the car for me is the crappy 'soft feel' rubber coating on some of the interior, it supposedly gave a 'quality feel' to the interior, but over time decomposes to a gooey mess, fortunately I have found somone to match some paint up that matched the colour and finish but not the texture, which won't become a sticky mess over time
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How reliable is the alfa?
It looks terrible to me
I had a 166 Facelift V6 with Automatic in the absolutely stunning colour Nuvola Azurro (pearl blue metallic that shifts colours depending on the light) - I drove it for a year and no issues with it, other that a rear no longer responding to the central locking, the most reliable car I ever had. And 0 depreciation too, bought it for 5000 and sold it a year later for 5000 as well. I sold it because I found the suspension too hard for my taste on longer journey.
This was 1 of only 2 cars that I owned where I sometimes just looked out of the window to enjoy it's beauty (the other one was an E34).
based color
Fabulous car, well done
aha - forgot about the central locking. Stopped at bank to get cash so left the engine running. Car locked itself with me outside and car empty. :D
@@rs48635 My boss's Mercedes E-class did that to me; and my own E60 BMW as well - while at a workshop warming up for an oil change - it only has to happen to you once and you never forget! :-)
I owned a 1999 166. It was, by a long way, my favourite car ever. I did 112 thousand trouble-free miles. It was great fun to drive. Since then, I've owned Jags and E Class Mercs, and none have been as enjoyable to own and drive as the Alfa.
Wow that's really lucky!! You're giving Alfa Romeo fans hope.
I had both a 2003 alfa romeo 166 3.2 and a 2005 XJ8 4.2. The Jag was a segment bigger, ok, but it wasn't even close. The british car was 10x better in every single category. I actually had the XJ untill last year when I decided to get an EV to replace my loved.
Hi James; I've had both the 156 and 166 Alfa Romeos; both with V6 motors, the 156 was manual and the 166 automatic. I really enjoyed my 156, but my 166 was a car I truly loved. Very fast, very, very comfortable, and surprisingly reliable. I kept both cars for a year, but then was offered an exchange - for a Lancia Thema 8/32. Of course I accepted and that Lancia was the only car I've ever owned that nearly cost me my nice clean licence! As you may be aware, I'm settled into Lexus now, but I'd still buy a 166 if a good one came up.
Correct!
The biggest mistake was Alfa ever dropping rear wheel drive (or rather Fiat's mistake it was to force them to do so).
And the build quality and the reliability......
@@adamf8335 With 12 years of experience with cars commonly saw as unreliable, I have observed that most complaints come from people who never owned them. Imho, Italian cars fall into category of 'not for idiots'. You have to know a few things and put some actual maintenance into them and then they'll outlast any German car with very little spending. Italian cars are not perfect, but If you have some knowledge and are willing to put minimum effort, they are probably the most pocket-friendly cars on the planet. My family always drove Italian cars, I had 4 so far (2 still in my posession) and they never failed me on the road or drained my pocket, or corroded! I just know how to maintain and conserve a car, and it's a lot cheaper than buying a German car twice the price of an Italian.
@@piotrmalewski8178I agree, I enjoyed a 156 for a couple of years as a company car. It was the twin spark 4 cylinder motor but was still lively. One of the best handling cars I ever drove.
Fiat didn't force Alfa to drop RWD the 164 project started under Alfa. BTW AUDIs are FWD and nobody cares.
@@piotrmalewski8178 I love Vectra
I'm driving 166 for 15 years now and this is fantastic 4-person grand tourer :)
No steering issues if you look after the suspension and use 17/18-inch wheels. Great car, especially with Busso engine!
What engine do you have and how many miles did you manage in 15 years? Might get one but I'm kinda afraid of the maintenance costs, especially if it ends up fixing one issue after the other.
@@manuelcatalano2412 3.0V6 but I don't know exactly the milage, maybe something about 60000km?
I have a pre-facelift which I prefer for it's slightly odd looks. Great cruiser and nicely different from the crowd
It has a friendly anteater look to it, and the side profile is much nicer in the early ones
166 was a very good car. I don’t agree that it was poor quality. Was solid and reliable overall.
I had a 166, one of the best cars i have owned, i cant remember steering being bad, maybe the one you were driving had some issue, otherwise the 166 is an amazing car.
German Wolfgang Egger designed the Alfa 166 facelifted version was so beautiful better than the opposition! Lancia Kappa was a great large executive in that era too known in Holland as the "Italian Mercedes" due to its high mileage capabilities!
Facelift 166 V6 3.0 owner here. No steering issues whatsoever, take it to an alfa service for the maintenance.
I owned 3. All diesels. No issues with it. I do not agree about the quality and no vague steering around the centre. Solid. Great cruiser and travelled to France and Italy without any problems and economie. no: very good economy. And a lot of admirers. The mistake was that Alfa did not offer an automatic for the diesel in the first series. In The Netherlands customers of the German brands wanted an automatic. I really hate all the comments of Jay about Alfa's falling apart on you. Who told you that? You (and other journalists) keep using little sceptical comments 'below the belt' to keep the myth alive. Yes the red lacquer was notorious for fading. That is a fact. It was one of the first water based paints. I still own an almost 30 year old unrestored Spider V6. Never let me down. Correct maintenance and good oil and also an Alfa will not let you down.
I had a 166 super for 16 years and did 220k miles in it before it blew its head and tore its back end suspension apart. Never experienced that steering weirdness you seemed to have here. Such a shame but I personally think if you can get a t66 that is lower mileage today for around 5k, it'll be the best 5k you've spent in your whole life.
I owned my 3ltr 166 for 12 years from new and drove 130k miles in it. Never had any problems with reliability and drove her to Milan for the Alfa 100 Factory event. On the second day, we did a 7 hour drive from Metz to Lake Orta (over the Alps) and it was just the best day's driving i've ever done. Got to the hotel and I was still fresh as a daisy and could have easiily driven further. The 166 was a wonderful long distance touring car - effortless cruising on the Autobahn at 120mph+. I now drive an Alfa Guilia and it's just about perfect but I do miss the Busso soundtrack! Frankly, I don't care what anyone else thinks, I absolutely loved that car.
Problem with cars this age is even if they have low mileage, the rubbers in the bushings and linkages are going to be getting perished, so unless they've been replaced, they just aren't going to handle like they did when they were newer.
Honestly though the original design pre-facelift looks a lot better than the facelifted model.
Still we all want one😂
It's never gonna be as pretty as a 164 or 156
@@alphatrion100 check out the version from last years of production. I have a 2007 one and its simply beautiful, especially with the right 18 inch wheels
Nah I don't 😂. I'm an Alfa fan but this is a tragedy on wheels.
It just looks too awkward for me
Have you ever seen one? No because nobody bought one! 😂 Eveyone bought German or Japanese.
Front wheel drive is more fun in the corners using your break and gas at the same time. Having the car pull you down the highway is for cruising. It's fun going up and down hill in front wheel drive too so changing elevation is fun
I used to have a 2.0 TS one. Loved it despite the cam belt failing which caused a long winded warranty claim. The interior was amazing, handled well for a big car and the headlights were epic. I had mine converted to lpg due to high daily mileage and eventually the engine blew. I was gutted to see it go.
Interesting. My LPG converted 147 2.0 TS also blew it's cambelt, less than 10k after it was replaced! I swore never to own another 4 cylinder Alfa after this.
2.4 JTD used as a private cab, mostly airpost run. Retired after 18 years and close to 400K. Only due to emission regulations. Still ran like a champ, quick also, customers are always in a hurry.
The 2.0 TS was famous for cooking the rod bearings after some mileage. Here in Italy it's a very well known fact, so we all know to take it to the mechanic to get them changed periodically, maybe it's not that known in the UK. Not sure whether it's related to your failure in particular but yeah sorry that happened to you.
I own the pre-facelift in black, I think the walter de silva design frontend fits the rest of the car a bit better. I like the 166 because it is unusual and a bit mysterious. And also a unicorn when you see it on the road. I think most people dont know this car exist and are intrigued when they turn their head.
Sounds like it needs a suspension refresh and a 4-wheel alignment. They are great to drive when properly set up, nice steering and a decent turning circle. Bit thirsty though.
The diesel is not as hard on the wallet and still quick too with a map. The alignment must be done by a professional that knows the car. A misligned 166 is dangerous.
The 166 is the best build Alfa I ever had. Not to mention the beautiful line of the first years.
Its just like im looking into my car, 3.0 V6 just that mine have a few options on top of the presented car! Its not as roomy as other cars of the age in that class (5-series, E-Class or A6) but have the best seats ever, comfy, soft and supportive! And the noise that V6 Busso combined with Zender exhaust system is EPIC!!! Got that car for around 2k pounds (5k leva as live in Bulgaria) about 3 years ago! Today is worth it about 3 times more at least in bulgarian market! People just go at the usual stuff like BMW and Merc and the nice and rare cars are left behind and they are rather cheap to buy since most people are not interested and have no idea how capable and special they are!
I own a 166 2.5 V6 24v, 1st series, Lusso, remaped to 202 hp on the dyno (from 188hp), 11/2003 REG, full leather like the car in the test, but silver & with the 17 inch. alfa dial wheels. 330.000 kms since new & maintain her like new! Glorious for high speed cruising, aerodynamic, silent traveler. Never had credibility issues. Busso engine also glorious. I will keep her in my garage forever, next to my 2.2 diesel Giulia I just bought. I think the 166 is already a collector's item.
I used to own a 166 before-facelift V6 Busso. What a car!! I was forced to sell it when moving abroad. Before selling it I recorded the sound of the engine. Driving it was always an occasion. --- so what did I get after 166? A Porsche 911. What a disappointment after the Alfa :-)
I had a 3.2 facelift 166 in black. Could really haul on the autobahn, once I had the needle going clear of the maximum indicated 260 - and not by a small margin. I don’t remember the steering being so bad, perhaps it was revised for the facelift? It was more of a luxury car, never felt light on its feet though it gave good feedback and the Q2 LSD was a great upgrade.
I believe you. Had a 3.0 6spd on a particularly quiet stretch of autobahn. Clocked 251kph on GPS, so I’m sure a healthy 3.2 with a bit more zest could do the business. .
I owned a 3.0 Sportronic (Auto) and loved the car, the only let down being the 4 speed Auto box. It was pretty quick but supremely comfortable over long journeys. I later had a 3.2 facelift manual. I much preferred the look and the gearbox was so much better. These are now amazingly rare as there were virtually non bought from new! Both cars felt solid and were reliable if well looked after. My Busso addiction is currently being fed by a 3.2 Spider!!
Keep the quirky content coming Jay. Loved the 164 Q4 test. My dad had a couple of v6 164's back in the day - I was very happy to drive them as soon as I passed my test!!
Pre-face lift is waaaaaay better, but I know you are used to people disagreeing with you about this sort of thing! As always, another excellent vid. Keep em coming
Facelift can look good too if you remove the stupid fog lights and put mesh, like the never-produced Alfa 166 GTA.
I had a Lancia Kappa 3.0 v6 for a years and i can tell you it was an amazing car ,probbably best Italian car made till 2002-03
Ross Brawns company car when he worked for Ferrari ...he had the 2.0 TS and thought the handling, steering and balance was sublime ....
But what does he know ....lol
We had a 166 in the family 2.5 AT...it also had been neglected for years (in much worse state than this one).
But after sorting everything, we really liked it. The front looks better every time you look at it, even more so if you understand this is the link between the squarer early '90s design and the more organic 156/147s.
The interior does held up quite well and is a really nice place to be. Of course the screen looks dated (fun fact, the same system came in period Porsches)
I miss the 166, we should've kept it.
Uhhh!!! My first ever car!!! Excited to watch this! Mine was a 2.5 V6, silver with gray cloth interior.
I actaully disagree. I find the pre-facelift version prettier.
Last year I acquired my first Alfa, one of a whole list that will probably become rather long. A 1999 166, with the modest 2.0 TwinSpark. Modest (compared to the E-segment in general) but certainly not lacking of soul, and still pretty smooth to drive every day. A great sound, reminiscent of the early Bialbero, yet entirely OEM. A remark I'd already read about the GTV 916, but I wasn't expecting the same treatment in a large executive saloon.
A very neat design to my eyes, very satisfyingly coherent, and above all, perhaps one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful interior ever featured in a car. Especially with the beige Momo leather seats and the mahogany steering wheel. Surprisingly comfortable, despite the 18" wheelbase (only 40 of sidewall), and totally remarkable handling, which at first glance was really unexpected for a 4m73 car. This slightly odd feeling reported in the video may be due to the higher, more flexible sidewalls and a less sporty range of tires (I have similar tires to the Goodyear Eagle F1). I remember that even in Gran Turismo, the notes/reviews you could read before buying a car, attested to its behavior as far better than any of its rivals, even the German ones.
Note that, living in France and with LHD, sales here were " much " better, without being remarkable though. So it's easier to find them in good shape than on your side of the Channel. And here at least, they hold their value quite well and have begun to increase (especially in v6 variants), following the trend of all the other Alfa of the early 2000s.
I'll always remember its Clarkson test drive, surely one of the main reasons I bought one. I can't wait to finally get my hands on a Giulia 2.0 Lusso... Ever since it came out in 2016. I was able to test drive the Giulia, in 2.2 JTD, and what a car.
Great video as always.
Watch out for the rod bearings of the 2.0 TS, they tend to get worn over time, I suggest checking and possibly replacing them after about 100k miles before you lose the engine.
@@manuelcatalano2412 Yeah I heard about that and plan to do it at the same time as I'd change the timing belt.
Mine is pretty low mileage (118 00 km, the car, last belt done at 107 000 just before I bought it) and the next timing belt should be done around 150 000 km or in two years I think...
The chain which link the two camshafts should be changed too at this time and I may have to get the variatore revised or replaced
I'll have to be financially stable in every sense before purchasing my first vintage car. The best thing to do with your money is to invest rightly till then
The best advice that i learned from Manny Koshbin is don't buy a vintage Super or Hyper car until you have 5 times the price of it in your Bank account, when you purchase a Super car you add a car to your garage but u add also maintenance and unexpected damages that can happen in future
I understand Manny advice but that's overkill. If most people did that - they would never own one. The 10-15% rule is enough - especially if you make even more with multiple streams of income. My investment properties pay for my exotics cars. It's many different things you can do to afford easily and responsibly. You don't need a million cash to afford a cheap 100k car.
If you have that much money sitting in your bank account, that means that you are not investing your money properly. Money sitting in the bank doesn't really do anything for you because interest rates are so slow. It's better to have $1 million in a place where it can make you 5% on returns rather than having that $1 million sitting in your bank account making you 0.5% returns.
True but Investors should also exercise caution with their exposure and exercise caution when considering new investments, particularly during periods of inflation. It is advisable to seek guidance from a professional or trusted advisor in order to navigate this recession and achieve potential high yields.
indeed, most people downplay the roles of professionals until burnt by there mistakes. Productivity is optimized and keeping up to date strategies and analysis makes it more lucrative. I've been able to navigate the volatilities and scaled up 880k from 220k with professional guidance.
Sadly mine was totalled in an accident last fall. Absolutely loved it!
This car has character and that's exactly what I missed in other cars (specially a lot of modern ones). The ride is quiet sporty for this type of car and maybe this was a bit of a breaking point for the market then. The throttle response is fast and you can rev match perfectly! Nothing I would expect from a 90s/00s luxury upper class car. The busso engine is just a dream. Paired with a nice exhaust, pure perfection.
Styling wise I wouldn’t say first version was a throw off…with a aero pack it was looking really good. But yes facelift was a much better job.
I am driving one - 2004, diesel - since 2 years. It needed some repairs indeed, but its an astonishing car, its propably best buy for this money.
Thank you. It looks nice and sounds great!
i love that car but in diesel version, here in Portugal there are a few ones with lots of km, and they keep going, the 2.4 jtd 5 cil. is so much reliable and alive, very god...👌
As a 15 year old in 1990 I had a Saturday job at an Alfa dealer and at the time the main cars were the Spider ( the finsl facelift one ), the facelifted 33, the 75 and the new 164. I loved that late 80's /early 90's design language. The looked so much cooler than anything else at the time. In the showroom they looked classy although the dealership never seemed that busy. Even now I'd own any of them ( in good condition ). I did manage to own a lovely 156 1.8TS which never let me down and was a very special car. However that cannot happen again as I'm a bigger Scooby fan and I not let mine escape
166's are brilliant cars. Im onto my 3rd one.
I used to have the 3.0 super with the very rare zender factory fitted bodykit. Consisted of front apron, side skirts and rear apron. Lowered it on eibach springs and had bbs replica wheels on it. Just up the ante completely in the looks department . Was a manual gearbox, silver with red leather. Was a lovely car
Used to own a lancia kappa v6 manual saloon. Bought for 700 quid .super comfy and very well screwed together compared to deltas .interesting to insure as no one had heard of it .always preferred the look of the 166 though 😊
what country did you get a kappa was it lhd?
@raycroal it was originally from Switzerland but I bought it in Barnsley from a lancia enthusiast who had a thema and a dedra too
I thik Clarkson once mentioned that Lancia pulled officially out of the UK somewhere around 1993. So indeed, it would not be sold officially there. I'm from Czech Republic and the Lancia was never officially sold there too. But I'm interested in hearing that the Kappa had rear trailing arm suspension, while in the Lybra, it has quite sophisticated multilink with passive rear wheen steering (and nobody can keep up with it in corners, except for some old Hondas).
@@dw5150dw was it left hand drive
Most excellent review. Interesting piece of kit the 166, lots of character and style- certainly compared to staid offerings from Fritz. That Busso V6........Glorious sound.
The paint turns pink because car is not garaged and not polished on a regular basis. The sunlight can do it ,if the car is left stationary in prolonged sunlight. It did not just effect Alfas , Vauxhalls , and many other red cars of the period were the same
To be fair Alfas after the war and until the early 1990s had never been famous for good steering: mk1 Giulietta and Giulia had a fairly slow unassisted steering when brands like Citroën and Mercedes already got much faster powered steering setups. Chassis were average too.
It's from the late 1990s that Alfas *had* to have a good chassis and steering response, beforehand "sporty" meant "great engine sound and the car rattling" 😅
My last boss had one of these. But then he was Italian and an Alpha fanatic! It sounded epic every time it left the car park at the end of the day. 😂😂
I'll comment again lol. I had a few years with a 166 3.0 Super. Great car and I do miss it. Interior and engine were the highlights
Thankyou!
If you look closely my profile pic is a 166 dash lol@@JayEmmOnCars
Steering is perfect on mine and handling is fine- rack, alignment or bushes might need attention, no interior quality issues apart from sticky plastic- nothing falling off. Plenty of room in very comfortable back seats for most passengers.
Reviewer's past Alfa experiences seem to colour his perception of what is a 20 year old car.
Good luck finding a Gta or 164QV in good condition at a good price. Gtas now highly sought after.
Look up Clarkson's Top Gear video review and his book "I know you got soul" for chapter on why 166 despite not being as good as Germans is a fabulous car.
Ah yes, sticky plastic, typical of the Italian casr back then :D I have a 2000 Lancia Lybra and it already painted several legs of my "co drivers" after they fell for the temptation to rest it against the center console 🤣also the center arm rest is sticky, but the previous owner solved that with black electric tape 😁
James, do you believe in the old adage that you can’t be a true petrolhead until you own an Alfa? I must admit I love the chrome on the 3.2 v6 engine its just class. A car despite its flaws made with soul & passion missing from modern Audi/merc/bmw bought for badge.
We have an Alfa. Love it. Very few manufacturers manage to consistently create an exhaust note across the years and their models which instantly tell you who made the car.
Jay, Alfa's biggest mistake was making the Tonale into a Dodge Hornet and not making a Giulia coupe/covertible model. The brand doesn't need a substandard SUV that costs more than the Stelvio! And now supposedly they're going to make a 3rd smaller SUV! The brand was known for sports cars and convertibles. If people want SUV's, they can buy those elsewhere. What should we expect from an Italian legendary brand, now run by a Frenchman who can't pass up an all you can eat buffet?
JayEmm's analysis is spot on. I've had two 166s, both V6 Sportronics - a 2.5 and a 3.0. Both have been fantastic in their own way and great fun to drive. But when they start to get frail, they really do get frail and the bills can and will soon mount up. I've pretty much enjoyed every minute driving them, as long as you can get used to the fact that the 166 has the turning circle of an oil tanker and will be subject to the inevitable failure of anything with the word 'remote' in it about twelve months after purchase, whatever the year of manufacture. Having said that, as Clarkson quite rightly says, no self respecting petrol head can ever say they've lived, if they haven't owned a big Alfa.
I remember one of Alfa’s early entries into the US back in the early 80’s, the owner opened the hood and we all were wowed by the beautiful engine under the hood, it was European exotic and gorgeous! Then we realized it was Italian like a friend of mine who was a MGB fan said on those rare occasions when his light blue MGB was right, it was the greatest driving experience in the world.
The 2.5 V6 was the runt of th litter in the UK, hardly any quicker than the 2.0TS, way slower than the 3.0 V6 and actually thirstier than the 3.0. The auto was a disaster. To look at the facelift Ti's are the ones but the best to drive are the Mk1 3.0 manuals and they need to be on 17s, the car James has tested is on 16s, it made a big difference. The suspension was heavily bushed so to judge the car you need to review a car with recent bushes
Being from the 'colonies' over here in the USA - Alfa left in '95(before coming back in 2015) so we never had the opportunity to sample this successor to the to the 164. I've had a few 164's through the years (currently a 1995 Q) and while difficult (and expensive) to work on, for a big FWD saloon the 164's were competent, well handling cars. Sounds like the 166 is more of the same, though I agree that the facelifted version is the one I'd choose.
It's much smoother than a 164. I have the 2.5 24v 166 and it's just like a well trained dog. It only bites when you tell it to.
ive owned this 166 V6 2001
15 years ago. and i loved it much, despite the high seating position
I had two (2.0 twin spark manual lusso full leather), this one and the facelift and I absolutely loved them. Never had any problems whatever the reputation of Alfa is
Sorry James, but you’re getting it wrong with the diesel part of the story.
2.4 is very powerful and efficient unit. Bulletproof reliability, 5 cylinders and rather pleasant sound, unlike the one provided from 1.9.
I’m telling you all this, cause I actually have a ‘06 147 1.9 JTDm for the past, well, 17 years actually, and I’ve driven couple of 2.4 166’s, and they do 6-7 l/100km’s. I’d take that economy every day. My 2020 Giulia Veloce’s doing 14l/100km’s😂
I don't think he ever drove a 2.4... I prefer the 10v version sooo silky smooth!
I liked the audio issues in the video before. It somehow suited Alfa's electric glitches reputation.
There must have been something wrong with either tyres or suspension if the presenter has issues with steering - I own 166 and it's super precise . I owned bmw m3 f80, M440i, now I own Giulia Q, Stelvio and I have experience with other extrwmely well driving cars. 166 is supprosingly good to drive and reaponsive. This particular car requires service for sure.
Interesting film and some good drive-bys. The Busso V6 is probably the most glorious sounding V6 (except Dino V6) engine and Monsieur Clarkson felt the Italian interior was superb. However, each to their own I guess. Personally, I own two very late facelifts and thoroughly enjoy driving them. The 2 litre is actually a nicer, nimbler car to drive but the 3 litre lump can get up on its legs easily and do the corners as well.
I have a series one (pre facalift) like the ine in the video in silver 3.0 V6 i bought it almost 2 years ago and still in love with it, my brothere and i have 3 147s and 159 and the 166 is my favourite. It has really been reliable although it is an alfa. And they are appreciating now a days.
The two 3.0 manual ones I had were misslies. Quick rack fine. Went for years no faults. A £600 one and a £900 one. Great times.
Great video as always. Thanks for doing a video on the 166, its lovely to see one without having to buy one first and likely buy a bag of issues. This one looks like a nice one.
Jokes aside, the sound system in the 166 have a 10 hp as standard (2 tweeters and 2 woofers at the front and rear doors + 2 subwoofers behind the rear seats) and have a really nice hi-fi rendering
Mine never let me down. And it's a 3.0 v6 auto 166
❤ I am a happy owner of one of this beauties in 2024: a 166 2.4 Jtd. As a friend of mine put it "veteran, elegant, lively.......". 😊
nice vid, a friend of mine had a twin spark. he was happy with it. you should do a vid about the 155 q4 very rare car (underpinnings of the lancia delta integrale)
Loved my 166 3.0 V6 except for ongoing electrical fault which meant the fuel injector frequently stopped working and you had to stop, switch off and switch on again.
Have owned one, only a 2.0 but facelift. It didn't rust more then the germans in the same age range.
This is the first review that says the steering and handling were below par. Maybe something is worn or needs alignment or better tires?
My father had the 5 pot 2.4 JTD. One of the few diesel I actually like. Good car, not as brilliant to drive as the 156 I gather, but great interior, confort and so on. I remember it was quite reliable but the Alfiat service was atrociously bad
Jay, FL 166 2.4 came in 20 valve 175 bhp multijet which was perfect for 166 even 10 valve 150 bhp was great when I drove it.
Loved the 5-pot jtd in my 156 SW where it pulled like crazy and miss her as was special Azurro Nuvola sky blue🥲
Great content as always and thank you for finally taking the Ammiraglia( flagship) for a spin as who knows if we will ever get anything close to this from Alfa Romeo😔😪
A 166 facelift would be something I would love to own.
Shame this review just regurgitated all of the usual journalist comments about Alfa 166’s. Having owned several along with owning an E39, the 166 is superior in just about every way.
Had an 02 3.0 Lusso and ran it for 58,000 miles. Don’t recognise your criticisms of the steering. Front end was underdamped so easy to ground it and crack undertray. Armrest blocked handbrake-very Alfa. Interior by Momo and engine by Busso. A lot to like…
I think the lack of steering precision he dealed with is due too some flexible tire sidewalls or aging silent-blocs (especially with a 10 year pause). I just love the steering of my 2.0 TS (which feel the same as the steering of a 2.5 v6 I did a test drive with)
I’ve had three 166s. All 2.0, my favourite being a Ti. Great cars and I always thought cheap for what they were. Wish I still had the Ti, for some reason I sold it for an Audi A4 3.0 cab, a big mistake. I thought the red ones used in the Tour de France around the Armstrong time were mega cool.
Really good, honest review. A most intriguing car
There is another reason why the 166 was delayed. Alfa needed a smaller model, a car that would sell in bigger numbers. Thus the management at Alfa Romeo concentrated more on the successor of the Alfa 155. The Alfa 166 was a beautiful car when was introduced, shame that it was not RWD.
I did own ALfa 166 with 2.5l busso. Engine note was amazing, I miss it a lot in my current 159 TI. Handling was just bad. Felt like a regular car from 90's. Not much better then my first car which was Ford Orion... Breaks weak, which was scary considering it was easly going 220 kph. Once I had a scary situation where I was sure the speed I am entering the corner was fast but should be fine but she decided that she did not like it and just went into absolute understeer and the tires cried. Thankfully I kept my cool and saved it and nobody noticed a thing xD So yeah... Mixed feelings :P Alfa 159 is amazing though.
My Alfas of all eras were perfectly fine, so not true that things must fall apart. 😃
Stunning - this one deserves to have paint work sorted and serious rust prevention.
Pretty hard to justify a respray on a car that is so inexpensive now. Blimey just got to the point where he's saying you'd pay five to six thousand pounds for a good one! In NZ you can pick one up thats in reasonable condition for five to six thousand dollars! So around half that! Mind you it's probably much easier to own one in the UK, I expect getting parts and work done in NZ would be a nightmare. Anyway might be worth spending some money on cosmetics after all.
Had one myself, and all its flaws can be forgotten when you hear that exhaust! "Like a lion being thrown down a well"
How odd I'd just driven mine today and found your video afterwards 😂 Mine's a facelift. Busso, of course. Indeed is it odd but I still ADORE it when I look at it and drive it. It needs an open road, it is thirsty but the sound, the feeling of driving it, the leather and the rarity (in fact we love Alfas in Poland so I happen to meet one from time to time here). Hate the steering and the turning circle though. The car is just one of its kind and that is what I love about it ❤ So here's to Giuseppe Busso 🍷
I always liked the look of the 166, especially the facelift model. In a world where the obvious choice was the “i think my ***t don’t stink” Sim Simma, the Alfa offered as you said, a very interesting, and stylish alternative. And with that engine, it’s no wonder the boss of Cadbury wanted something as smooth and tasty as his chocolate. I’d just make sure I changed my best mate to a mechanic if I owned one
I think you are to negative about the 166. This is probably the least sporty Alfa of all time. The steering in the 3 liter is as you described. And the 3 liter engine is heavy so it feels heavy in the front.
This was never ment to be a cornering car. However that said, apart from a few quirks in the interior like the sticky dashboard underpart and old satnav and so on, the quality is very decent.
The don't rust heavy at all.(in the UK even stainless steel will rust 🤣) but it is well protected against rust. This car is ment for on the highway. And there it shines! I had the 3 liter Busso myselve and my brother still drives that car. The car has currently about 300 thousand kilometers. About 188K miles and only had some small issues.
Engine is rock solid as well is the gearbox. On the highway it's pretty quite to drive. And from 60 to 120 miles it just goes so easy. It does not matter wich gear you are in, it's so supple!
And as said it drives very well on the highway. Also the 4 piston Brembo brakes in front are doing their job very well.
The only thing is that they did depriciate very fast. But they are climbing the good ones. Just like the 156 GTA that is becomming very expensive to find a good one. This is a very plesant daily driver that is reliable. Only big downside is it fuel consumption. The gasstation is your friend. And your wallet is not.
But the glory of the engine does recover a lot of the pain felt at the gasstaion.
I had an ex-demo Lusso from 2000 to 04. It steered and went and rode very nicely and made a great noise from the 3 litre V6. It was quick enough, comfortable, and I also thought it was pretty, apart from the rather sad face. I got rid of it mainly because of the electrics. The battery frequently went flat, which I eventually found by accident was because it was turning its own parking lights on overnight. They were off when I left it, off when I went to start it next day, which it wouldn't. It was still under warranty but no number of garage visits, wiring checks or new switches or relays cured it. In the end I found the only cure was to leave it with the headlights switched to on when I turned off the ignition. My steering was fine with no noticeable dead spot around the centre but the car certainly did depreciate, from £24k to 8k in 4 years.
I had T Reg 166 V6 Super, and it was one of the most enjoyable cars I've ever owned. Mine had a lighter leather interior and Pearl paint, it looked fantastic.
I can only assume there is something amiss with the front of this particular example, as mine was a joy to drive and could be placed with complete confidence. They can be prone to various electrical gremlins, but would it be a proper Alfa if it wasn't?
The V6s are worth owning just for the engine, let alone being a rare and characterful alternative to an E39 or whatever.
My favourite car I have ever owned it's on my list to buy again
Always wanted one, never got the chance to put my hands on one.
166 Super has the STR button below the heating buttons: Sport Throttle Response
a small lamp on this button goes on and you get moore boost and responsiveness when hitting the gas pedal.
The steering rack is done in that car for sure
Old names still have a little power - I had a pretty rough 78 Spyder 30 years ago, but it was fun for weekend use.
owned a 2.4jtd facelift, steering 'weirdness' definitely was not present on my car, facelifted interior in beige leather was fabulous. Car was fun on major roads and highways, not necessarily on country lanes. Suspension is really complex, but drives really well. Fortunately sold it before spending thousands on it.
I think no one reviewed the proper 166, the 2L turbo. They all went or were given the top-specced 2.5, 3 or 3.2L V6 while ironically, the 2L turbo is the fastest and liveliest.
As far as room in the back is concerned, the back is almost as good as driving it. I'm 1.92m tall and I fit in the back of the driver, no issue. Not that I'd mind being there, since the seats in the back are so comfortable and soft and a pleasure to sit in.
IMO, silver/grey is the only paintjob that goes well with this car's styling . Everything else makes it look...well, just like in the video :)
The 2L turbo is not the fastesr and livelelest at all honestly. Its just a little faster than the 2.5 V6, but the 3.0 and the 3.2 are something else.
@@Jack-cv4ke Hi, Jack. I own a 2L and have driven a 3.2L . Yes, the upper displacement versions pull differently.
The 2L has two things going for it: 1. power-to-weight 2. The kick. And by "kick" I mean: all the way to redline, 'cause that's where all the power is.
NA engines are linear. The turbo version has the advantages when it comes to power-to-weight and when it comes to being re-mapped.
Ironically, my passion for the 166 started with the 3.2 Super and ended with the turbo.
Some might say the 2L version is limited to 237KM/h while others might say (not me, of course 'cause that would be illegal) that at 3AM on a Hungarian highway that the car (not me) reached 280KM/h with 500RPM to spare on the tachometer.
But hey, that's why cars are awesome. Or how some might say: "Without heart we would be mere machines" ;)
I had 2 of these both 2.5 V6. It gave me some great memories and experiences. Unfortunately the steering exploded and the other the dreaded rot. They led me to my gtv v6 I own now and a GT for daily
I wanted a 166 to be on my company car list in the early 2000s but it never appeared, possibly because there were no diesels and residuals were atrocious. I took a 2.5 Vectra estate and later, cash alternative.
I'm from Holland, I owned a 1999 dark blue 166 2.4 5cyl. diesel with yellow Koni's, A bit lowered, and according to my 5 year old son, it drove like a 911 ;-)). Well, it sertanly looked the part with the 17" 5 hole Speedline wheels and the yellow brake calipers. I had a two tone cream and black interior with cream leather seats. To me it was the most beautiful car in the world, and it never let me down once in the three years of ownership. I partted with it because of my own stupidity and the fact that is was eating a set of front tires in 6 moths. If I could find a decent one now, I'd buy it right away!
Another great review on another weird and wonderful car and even tested on roads very local to me (like less than 10 miles local) Those are some very nice bendy lanes and they really do make for a great looking video. I`ve never really understood the appeal of Alfa Romeo, especially these FWD cars, they just always seemed to be all style over substance. Not the quickest, not the best handling and most certainly not the best built! But i do like the looks of this model and LOVE the fact that we get to see and hear your opinion on this rare car.
The facelifted 166 was a very good looking car. And it had a front double-wishbone suspension!!
I have an Auto 2007 registered V6 (apparently alfa found some RHD cars down the back of a sofa in Malaysia and sent them to the UK) which is a facelift. I hear they did make some alterations to the suspension for the facelift cars but all I do know is the turning circle is pretty good on mine. It is due to have a 4 wheel alignment as it's had a few ball joints done on the suspension for the MOT and seems to like munching rear tyres (only alfa could make a FWD car that eats rear tyres!) Running on LPG makes up for the lack of a tractor engine. Amazingly the only other 166 I have seen on the road while driving it was another facelift car! Worst part of the car for me is the crappy 'soft feel' rubber coating on some of the interior, it supposedly gave a 'quality feel' to the interior, but over time decomposes to a gooey mess, fortunately I have found somone to match some paint up that matched the colour and finish but not the texture, which won't become a sticky mess over time