Sinister Concoction is insane. You mill a card, discard a different type of card, sac it... and there you go, you have 3/4 for delirium. If you got a cheap creature or token on the battlefield, you can even destroy your own guy to get the final piece of delirium. It's not guaranteed, but I'm getting turn 2-3 delirium around 80% of the time with this card. Amazing.
54:11 the card is actually pretty good in limited where you have all this discard stuff. You don't always have a madness card to play, but you need to discard. Discard a card, then draw a card effects. That vampire token card. In white you have that removal where you need to sacrifice a permanent - this guy. Also, you can throw some equipment on this guy to make him big, like slayers plate. Your opponent could be sitting on a removal spell and its a waste on a skeleton. lol. Slayers plate makes this guy a 5/4. This skeleton just screams value.
+ThePeacemaker848 My thoughts exactly. Remember Squee - casting him over and over again wasn't the point. Or even Eternal Dragon. Sometimes stuff coming back to your hand is worth more than if it returned to the BF.
Is it just me or does it seem like Shamble Back (54:45) is a much better card than they give it credit for. It is a 2/2 for 1 mana that also gives you 2 life and ALSO ruins delirium for someone else while helping fueling it for you (the sorcerery goes into the graveyard instantly instead of having to wait for the creature to die). I don't see how they think it is meh
+Gravitygyr Palma I run with 3 alms in my deck. It's saved my ass multiple times, draining 3 life from an opponent at instant speed from madness for 1B cannot be overlooked. Without madness, sure its a "meh" card. I dont think they were right to pass it off as instantly trash.
Alms of the Vein seems fine to me. Six point life swing for three, potentially one, mana? Obviously would be better at instant speed, or if it could hit creatures. But it doesn't look as bad as they say.
+FrankiePeanuts The problem is that spells that only "burn" players and/or gain you life are usually terrible in Limited and only good in Constructed if you are playing a dedicated Burn deck. In Limited, you usually want to advance your board state and/or diminish your opponent's board state - cards like these do neither.
I disagree, if you're attacking with Typhoid Rats your opponent is very unlikely to block. With this you have the option to block/stop them attacking or attacking to get the odd damage through. so actually it's not much different except stopping larger first strikers from blocking.
That doesn't make any sense, giving your opponent less options is always a plus if your opponent is playing correctly. In this case, if you are attacking with your 1/1 deathtouch, you are in a position where getting in damage is good for you, and giving your opponent the choice of blocking makes the card worse.
+Mr.Northwind Why would they consider EDH? That would be a waste of time considering every single card ever printed is EDH playable. xD I mean seriously a 7 mana enchantment that 3-for-1s yourself is good enough for EDH. Why even bother mentioning the obvious. #TriggersProwess #TriggersEDHplayers
+Vulcan Hades They ignored Behold the Beyond's EDH potential, they were just thinking about Standard and Limited. I know it's stating the obvious, but at least they could consider which ones could be very playable in EDH.
Vulcan Hades Not every card has Potential in EDH, however mana cost is far less of an issue in EDH then other faster formats. Cards like Behold the Beyond are great late game tutors that also act as a great combo with delve, flashback, scavenge, dredge etc. When looking at a Card for commander there are factors in play that one has to consider. For example; is this card as good if your only using one copy? How will this effect a multiplayer game? Does this have synergy with my commander? Does this card deal with/or is dealt with by a commonly used commander? What are the chances of his resolving versus this color combination? If playing one on one EDH can I reliably get X mana in order to make use of it? How does this card fit into a 99 card deck in terms of mana balance?
So guys I need help, when you start building this standard, what two colors would be best, black blue, black red, white green etc. what is best based around, investigate, delirium, madness? anything will be help full
+Wynn Berry It's not about colours, and at its core, its not even about single keywords/mechanics. It's about archetypes. And the archetypes are based on fundamental concepts. If you don't understand each of the following terms, you're not yet ready to build a deck, but merely a pile of cards. Concepts: tempo, mana curve, card advantage, synergy. Archetypes: Very basic: aggro, control, combo. Refined: weenie, tribal, burn, beatdown, aggro-control, midrange, wrath-based control, counterspell-based control, mana ramp, combo (not much to differentiate here), or, sigh, "I can afford the most expensive cards, your strategy is irrelevant". Since we don't want to let the last one win, we need to study the other basics carefully ;) So for example, if I wanted to know whether a red-black vampire deck would be any good, we would first discover that this is a tempo-based aggro deck, that also taps heavily into the synergy of tribal. So, are there enough tribal cards to make a smooth mana curve? Can we win by turn five or if not, do we have disruption or finishers to push through the final points of damage? Is there an even more aggressive deck out there (human weenie?), so that we need to play like a control deck against them? Should we in that case consider building the red/black as an aggro-control in the first place instead of pure aggro? Or wil a bit of side-boarding be enough? Is there any strategy we have no tools against at all (e.g. mana ramp combo), and could we solve this by adding a tiny splash of a third color? At least, these are the tools. I you already knew or even disagree with something and know better, kudos to you. Otherwise, consider reading many of the very fundamental guides on deck building available almost from dozens of sources online. I can't give you a fish, but I tried to show you a few things I know about how to fish by yourself... Ages ago, when the Invasion block had just rotated out of standard, some older dude taught me these things in turn after seeing the hopeless piles I called decks back then ;D I hope I can now be a bit like that guy.
Wynn Berry When in doubt, look for a solid Wrath of God effect. If it's there, build control to bash all the aggro/tribal kiddies^^ However, if you are short on concentration span or money, go for straight aggro, mana curve above all else instead yourself. They can't cast their Avacyns or planeswalkers when they're dead. That's my formula (and personal style; I'm just a guy who likes to either tap 4 and make sweeping motion towards their creatures, saying "wrath." - or tap 4 and swing for 15, saying "game.") xD Obviously, I'm no pro, though, so this is more sophisticated FNM than national championship stuff. Best of luck to you!
Am i the only one that noticed the obvious fail on Triskaidekaphobia? The Collectorsnumber is 141! Why not 13? That would be such a easy thing to do! ;)
Is it possible that Relentless Dead is another Brimaz type of card? Every now and then, Wizards prints these cards that look busted, but really aren't. The common excuse is that they can't 'find a home', but let's be honest here - you're just getting a recurring 2/2 or another zombie (but that costs a lot more mana potentially). I just think even with Khans leaving, decks can be doing a lot more than recurring 2/2's. And are you really going to keep a B up on each turn as a safety measure? Or is it going to play like a limited bear most of the time so that you can allow your deck to actually actually play on curve? And to abuse this card with a sac outlet, you still need BBB to repeat the recursion. I heard someone mention Sidisi, Undead Vizier, but that's a 6-mana play - and you need 2 more mana to repeat the cycle, making the entire process cost 8 mana - and you still haven't even casted the card you fetched. I'm pretty sure just drawing a bunch of cards for less will give you a better effect. I don't think Relentless Dead is that good. It's not "bad" - but I see better cards in this set. If you're thinking of pre-ordering the card, just wait - it'll be $5 soon.
+Katie Egervari I agree. The card is going to drop, though I will say I very much want a copy of this in my Liliana EDH. Normal standard though...I don't see it being very viable.
+Katie Egervari You get both, right? The recurring 2/2 and the other zombie, don't you? Either a good one you discarded earlier, or a cheap one for a sac engine? Of course, it's no Ichorid, but still... Edit: Oh, I did not see the price tag. No, 5 $ will be plenty for this one, agreed. I thought you argued for dollar-rare status....
boycot gugle Yeah, my main problem with the card is really that it's a big mana sink. There's virtually no initial to mid-game turns in Standard where you'd want to use this ability, and even the late game, it has to be quite suboptimal compared to what you could be doing instead. If it were like Voice of Resurgence and it just "happened", I would be very high on the card. But as long as there is a mana cost to its abilities, I don't see it being that strong - I mean, how strong is a 2/2 for most of the game in Standard? Not very. The card reads better than it is. It's not "bad" - but now that the prices are continuing to drop and now that we see it has gotten no play in Standard so far, I think my analysis was pretty good for not having played with the card when I wrote my original post on April 5th.
Katie Egervari I haven't played standard for a very, very long time, I have to admit. It's just that certain concepts make sure a card will never be "bad" - however you're perfectly right that there simply might be no deck or environment where something else would not be more worthwhile. I've always played some form of control and therefore have a healthy respect for anything not stoppable by a Wrath. You know the times when you're desperately looking for your win condition because the opponent has you on a better clock than top-decking (e.g. in B/R aggro, even a 2/2 may be a sulfuric vortex with more utility if it has a recurring effect). Yeah, but let's first see the metagame develop a bit.
boycot gugle It avoids wrath, but it ties up too much mana. Magic is so much more of a tempo game now compared to the last few years. If you're wasting 3 mana to bring this guy back and recast it - and you're only getting a measly 2/2 out of the deal in that case unless you pay even more mana - it's not likely you're going to win against a control deck that's just sitting behind an an unstopped creature like Avacyn or Ojutai or Thing in the Ice or whatever.
I think you guys need to analyze Behind the Scenes better. Giving ALL your dudes skulk means your opponent cant trade unless they have creatures with higher toughness than power, AND you get the ability to post-block pump your dudes. This really makes combat math a mess for your opponent.
![Shadows over Innistrad Complete Set Review - Red [Magic: The Gathering]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jXNRthjGWDI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Shadows over Innistrad Complete Set Review - Red [Magic: The Gathering]](/img/tr.png)
Sinister Concoction is insane. You mill a card, discard a different type of card, sac it... and there you go, you have 3/4 for delirium. If you got a cheap creature or token on the battlefield, you can even destroy your own guy to get the final piece of delirium. It's not guaranteed, but I'm getting turn 2-3 delirium around 80% of the time with this card. Amazing.
the dynamic duo is back, love you guys
39:06 "It's kinda cool to see Liliana's armpit"
"It's kinda cool to see things like Liliana's armpit"
yo
Evan has an armpitfetish confirmed xD
+Postillion Armpits.dec!! Support Evan!! :)
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/armpitsdec/
+Liliputian07 Armpits.dec!! Support Evan!! :)
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/armpitsdec/
Phil Rock
oh my god bro
"My love for you is like a truck; Berserker!"
I caught that deliverance reference at 4:25 I see you
54:11 the card is actually pretty good in limited where you have all this discard stuff. You don't always have a madness card to play, but you need to discard.
Discard a card, then draw a card effects.
That vampire token card.
In white you have that removal where you need to sacrifice a permanent - this guy.
Also, you can throw some equipment on this guy to make him big, like slayers plate. Your opponent could be sitting on a removal spell and its a waste on a skeleton. lol. Slayers plate makes this guy a 5/4.
This skeleton just screams value.
+ThePeacemaker848 My thoughts exactly. Remember Squee - casting him over and over again wasn't the point. Or even Eternal Dragon. Sometimes stuff coming back to your hand is worth more than if it returned to the BF.
@29:20: Deathklok - Thunderhorse. Go look it up on TH-cam. \m/
I LITERALLY had just sang "Berserker" from Clerks to myself and not 10 seconds later did you reference it.
Mind blown.
evan has been playing this game longer than i have been alive
Is it just me or does it seem like Shamble Back (54:45) is a much better card than they give it credit for. It is a 2/2 for 1 mana that also gives you 2 life and ALSO ruins delirium for someone else while helping fueling it for you (the sorcerery goes into the graveyard instantly instead of having to wait for the creature to die). I don't see how they think it is meh
Clerks love that movie Evan.
Marshal was also picking on Kenji for running the skeleton. It was really funny
This is the last time I tell you, Evan: it's "mah-cawb!" Who am I kidding, I'll tell you every single time!
+frigginrizzo Okay, you corrected yourself. n/m p.s. love@u!
Evan:I have a mouth on my hand
Corrin:That's not normal?
+Blaze 3612 "Talk to the hand. ... It will actually respond xD"
alms of the vein was the reason why i turned the table on my opponent during pre release. 2 of these was the winning hit.
+Gravitygyr Palma I run with 3 alms in my deck. It's saved my ass multiple times, draining 3 life from an opponent at instant speed from madness for 1B cannot be overlooked. Without madness, sure its a "meh" card. I dont think they were right to pass it off as instantly trash.
for mind wrack demon do land cards also count for its delerium cuz in my deck there are only sorcerys lands creatures and instants but no enchantments
Paused the video just to thumbs up & comment that a play group of mine has been calling him Cleatus for a while now and that made me laugh.
Is no one going to mention that the Zombie in the front of From Under the Floorboards is definitely Gravecrawler from Dark Ascension?
There are 13 thirteens on triskaidekaphobia (including the clauses). However the artist's name is 12 letters.
+Luke Watson its 13 if you count the space!
Space has character.
Guys, if your creatures have skulk, then they have to block with equal or smaller creatures, then after blocks, pump and eat there board.
Alms of the Vein seems fine to me. Six point life swing for three, potentially one, mana? Obviously would be better at instant speed, or if it could hit creatures. But it doesn't look as bad as they say.
+FrankiePeanuts The problem is that spells that only "burn" players and/or gain you life are usually terrible in Limited and only good in Constructed if you are playing a dedicated Burn deck.
In Limited, you usually want to advance your board state and/or diminish your opponent's board state - cards like these do neither.
49:56 actually skulk makes it worse, because they cannot block with their big stuff
I disagree, if you're attacking with Typhoid Rats your opponent is very unlikely to block. With this you have the option to block/stop them attacking or attacking to get the odd damage through. so actually it's not much different except stopping larger first strikers from blocking.
That doesn't make any sense, giving your opponent less options is always a plus if your opponent is playing correctly. In this case, if you are attacking with your 1/1 deathtouch, you are in a position where getting in damage is good for you, and giving your opponent the choice of blocking makes the card worse.
Harkates
you cannot use "blocks if able" effects with it.
+doombybbr Of which there are zero of in this set.
So, is there going to be a Land called Sparta to go with all this madness?
+leif52pickup theros 2 next set confirmed
Elusive Tormentor is kinda hell for control or heavy removal heavy decks to remove.
Unless it's the only creature on the field and make them sac it.
4 of my 16 games at pre-release i won with triskaidekaphobia. suuuuck it!
Did they miss Heir of Falkenrath?
I get the feeling you guys don't consider EDH when looking at some of these cards....
+Mr.Northwind Why would they consider EDH? That would be a waste of time considering every single card ever printed is EDH playable. xD
I mean seriously a 7 mana enchantment that 3-for-1s yourself is good enough for EDH. Why even bother mentioning the obvious.
#TriggersProwess #TriggersEDHplayers
+Vulcan Hades They ignored Behold the Beyond's EDH potential, they were just thinking about Standard and Limited. I know it's stating the obvious, but at least they could consider which ones could be very playable in EDH.
Han Daimond I believe I heard people saying that card had legacy/vintage potential as well because of the broken things you can do to cheat it early.
+Mr.Northwind They never consider EDH, at least Brad doesn't. Limited/Standard snobs. They are VERY limited in scope, as far as "reviews" go.
Vulcan Hades
Not every card has Potential in EDH, however mana cost is far less of an issue in EDH then other faster formats. Cards like Behold the Beyond are great late game tutors that also act as a great combo with delve, flashback, scavenge, dredge etc.
When looking at a Card for commander there are factors in play that one has to consider. For example; is this card as good if your only using one copy? How will this effect a multiplayer game? Does this have synergy with my commander? Does this card deal with/or is dealt with by a commonly used commander? What are the chances of his resolving versus this color combination? If playing one on one EDH can I reliably get X mana in order to make use of it? How does this card fit into a 99 card deck in terms of mana balance?
39:00 best moment XD
#armpitfetish, I laughed so hard, lol
+Robert Diffee I made the deck Armpits.dec!! Check it out yall, show Evan some support!!! ;)
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/armpitsdec/
Did they skip Kalitas?
+Mike C Kalitas is from Oath of the Gatewatch
pair sanctarium skeleton with diregraf colossus and just keep bringing skeleton back from the dead for a lot of token
I thought it was funny they had a rant about zombie tokens coming in untapped is the new thing only 3 cards later(the floorboards card)
So guys I need help, when you start building this standard, what two colors would be best, black blue, black red, white green etc. what is best based around, investigate, delirium, madness? anything will be help full
+Wynn Berry
It's not about colours, and at its core, its not even about single keywords/mechanics. It's about archetypes. And the archetypes are based on fundamental concepts. If you don't understand each of the following terms, you're not yet ready to build a deck, but merely a pile of cards.
Concepts: tempo, mana curve, card advantage, synergy.
Archetypes: Very basic: aggro, control, combo. Refined: weenie, tribal, burn, beatdown, aggro-control, midrange, wrath-based control, counterspell-based control, mana ramp, combo (not much to differentiate here), or, sigh, "I can afford the most expensive cards, your strategy is irrelevant". Since we don't want to let the last one win, we need to study the other basics carefully ;)
So for example, if I wanted to know whether a red-black vampire deck would be any good, we would first discover that this is a tempo-based aggro deck, that also taps heavily into the synergy of tribal. So, are there enough tribal cards to make a smooth mana curve? Can we win by turn five or if not, do we have disruption or finishers to push through the final points of damage? Is there an even more aggressive deck out there (human weenie?), so that we need to play like a control deck against them? Should we in that case consider building the red/black as an aggro-control in the first place instead of pure aggro? Or wil a bit of side-boarding be enough? Is there any strategy we have no tools against at all (e.g. mana ramp combo), and could we solve this by adding a tiny splash of a third color?
At least, these are the tools. I you already knew or even disagree with something and know better, kudos to you.
Otherwise, consider reading many of the very fundamental guides on deck building available almost from dozens of sources online.
I can't give you a fish, but I tried to show you a few things I know about how to fish by yourself...
Ages ago, when the Invasion block had just rotated out of standard, some older dude taught me these things in turn after seeing the hopeless piles I called decks back then ;D I hope I can now be a bit like that guy.
+boycot gugle Thank you for all that, seriously. I have been building decks since origins, but new to this set and was wondering others opinions
Wynn Berry
When in doubt, look for a solid Wrath of God effect. If it's there, build control to bash all the aggro/tribal kiddies^^ However, if you are short on concentration span or money, go for straight aggro, mana curve above all else instead yourself. They can't cast their Avacyns or planeswalkers when they're dead. That's my formula (and personal style; I'm just a guy who likes to either tap 4 and make sweeping motion towards their creatures, saying "wrath." - or tap 4 and swing for 15, saying "game.") xD
Obviously, I'm no pro, though, so this is more sophisticated FNM than national championship stuff.
Best of luck to you!
+boycot gugle look up ProGhost12 on MTG vault that's my username like and comments see what I can do better
Murderous Compulsion: Kibler stabbing Levy
Am i the only one that noticed the obvious fail on Triskaidekaphobia? The Collectorsnumber is 141! Why not 13? That would be such a easy thing to do! ;)
29:12 Ghoulsteed is just like Dreadsteed from hearthstone a horse that keeps coming back
behold the beyond will be a bomb in e.d.h. if you conider that constructed.
tooth collector also can let your skulk creatures get in for some beats
Under The Floorboards comes into play tapped.
fuel down for WHUT ?!?
Heir of Falkenrath is my homegirl. She would like for making...yeah. Berserker!!
Is it possible that Relentless Dead is another Brimaz type of card? Every now and then, Wizards prints these cards that look busted, but really aren't. The common excuse is that they can't 'find a home', but let's be honest here - you're just getting a recurring 2/2 or another zombie (but that costs a lot more mana potentially).
I just think even with Khans leaving, decks can be doing a lot more than recurring 2/2's. And are you really going to keep a B up on each turn as a safety measure? Or is it going to play like a limited bear most of the time so that you can allow your deck to actually actually play on curve?
And to abuse this card with a sac outlet, you still need BBB to repeat the recursion. I heard someone mention Sidisi, Undead Vizier, but that's a 6-mana play - and you need 2 more mana to repeat the cycle, making the entire process cost 8 mana - and you still haven't even casted the card you fetched. I'm pretty sure just drawing a bunch of cards for less will give you a better effect.
I don't think Relentless Dead is that good. It's not "bad" - but I see better cards in this set. If you're thinking of pre-ordering the card, just wait - it'll be $5 soon.
+Katie Egervari
I agree. The card is going to drop, though I will say I very much want a copy of this in my Liliana EDH. Normal standard though...I don't see it being very viable.
+Katie Egervari You get both, right? The recurring 2/2 and the other zombie, don't you? Either a good one you discarded earlier, or a cheap one for a sac engine? Of course, it's no Ichorid, but still...
Edit: Oh, I did not see the price tag. No, 5 $ will be plenty for this one, agreed. I thought you argued for dollar-rare status....
boycot gugle Yeah, my main problem with the card is really that it's a big mana sink. There's virtually no initial to mid-game turns in Standard where you'd want to use this ability, and even the late game, it has to be quite suboptimal compared to what you could be doing instead. If it were like Voice of Resurgence and it just "happened", I would be very high on the card. But as long as there is a mana cost to its abilities, I don't see it being that strong - I mean, how strong is a 2/2 for most of the game in Standard? Not very.
The card reads better than it is. It's not "bad" - but now that the prices are continuing to drop and now that we see it has gotten no play in Standard so far, I think my analysis was pretty good for not having played with the card when I wrote my original post on April 5th.
Katie Egervari
I haven't played standard for a very, very long time, I have to admit. It's just that certain concepts make sure a card will never be "bad" - however you're perfectly right that there simply might be no deck or environment where something else would not be more worthwhile. I've always played some form of control and therefore have a healthy respect for anything not stoppable by a Wrath. You know the times when you're desperately looking for your win condition because the opponent has you on a better clock than top-decking (e.g. in B/R aggro, even a 2/2 may be a sulfuric vortex with more utility if it has a recurring effect). Yeah, but let's first see the metagame develop a bit.
boycot gugle It avoids wrath, but it ties up too much mana. Magic is so much more of a tempo game now compared to the last few years. If you're wasting 3 mana to bring this guy back and recast it - and you're only getting a measly 2/2 out of the deal in that case unless you pay even more mana - it's not likely you're going to win against a control deck that's just sitting behind an an unstopped creature like Avacyn or Ojutai or Thing in the Ice or whatever.
I think you guys need to analyze Behind the Scenes better. Giving ALL your dudes skulk means your opponent cant trade unless they have creatures with higher toughness than power, AND you get the ability to post-block pump your dudes. This really makes combat math a mess for your opponent.
Grotesque Mutation is so good. So much life swing
+cptawesome consistently overperformed for and against me
Lilianna has been on innistrad while everyone else was doing gate watch stuff.
OMG IM DYING! Liliana's arm pits?! Wtf?! Hahahahaha
Is that Brian Kibler stabbing BRAD NELSON????:O
Insidious mist is unblockable hexproof. It's invisible stalker. This isn't good.
Some of the bestter cards of the set are in black
"enables delirium" shots are to much ... can't wait for.... hic... the next 2 colors
My love for that card is like a truck Berzerker, would you like some making F--- Berzerker
"Macabray"
HORSEDICK
Evan, if u want to see more of Liliana's armpit look no further then her biography page on the mothership ;).
+Searibox Armpits.dec!! Support Evan!! :)
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/armpitsdec/
+Phil Rock
This is heaven. Now we just need feet.dec.
This is Evan's Heaven! Lol yeah, a lot of demand for that also!
Hey Evan can we stop with "2 generic mana" now? Just say 2 and a black, or whatever. OGW is over.
Children.. im 50 and have been playing since Beta, so yea..
welp, guess we all have to kinkshame Evan now.
Title promises us a review of black cards. Has a purple thumbnail.
I disagree with brad, Elusive Tormentor is very much constructed worthy, and quite good.
gimme that relentless head know what i'm sayin
Just like real life, Ahhhh! lol
Jace's feet rofl
BERSERKERRRRRRR
+TempestDacine DO YOU WANT TO MAKING FUCK
First hehe
Im early XD Ayyyy lmao