Brethren, I applaud this work and especially the painstaking work of Mel now on St Ephrem. Was going to write on your own video last Mel night. To some extent Jay has redressed the issue here but it should be emphasised further. I think to help viewers understand the significance of St Ephrem: He is the most prolific patristic writer and composer especially in the Syriac language .To describe him simply in the context of "liturgical" worship sounds too remote and academic. He is the John Wesley or perhaps nowadays, the Graham Kendrick of Christian worship in the 4th Century. His musical melodies outlining the depths of mystery in the Christian Gospel would have been sung not only in the churches but by ordinary people and children going about their daily life. Like both of those writer/composers Ephrem is universally owned within the Miaphysite, (Egyptian/Ethiopian) Byzantine, Diophysite ("Nestorian") Armenian and Latin Catholic Apostolic Churches. His work was translated into Coptic-Geeze-Armenian-Greek Latin and so many related languages besides. His catalogue was further extended by other writers trying to emulate his style nowadays advisedly noted as "Pseudo Ephrem". 1700 years later, visiting Ethiopia in 2005 I was surprised to find prominent Icons to St Ephrem even in the most backwater and primitive Ethiopian Orthodox churches. He stands either at the door of the Church or alongside the great names like the Theotokos (BVM) and John the (Baptist) "Forerunner". "Western" Christians both Catholic and Protestant will not immediately understand the colossal significance of St Ephrem. In the modern Catholic Church he is (since the 1st world war) venerated as a "Doctor" of the church. That is to say somebody who has taught the entire church something about the mystery of Christ and the Gospel. (In the wake of WW1 by Pope Benedict NB the XV promoted Ephrem as a figure of unity between all the traumatised ancient Apostolic Churches). Given the connection between "Mohammed" (name used advisedly) and the early Islamic association with the land of Ethiopia, it would have been impossible for Quranic compilers to avoid or overlook the legacy of so much popular and widespread material of Ephrem. On a related issue in Syriac Christianity the "Pearl" is the most frequent title for the Gospel itself (as well as Christ). We see this most of all in the "Hymn of the Pearl" which is part of the "Apocryphal Acts of St Thomas". Although this is a largely gnostic text (or at least a text that has been overwritten with gnostic themes) here "the pearl" actually speaks for itself travelling down the Euphrates and the Persian Gulf taking the Gospel message to India. This would have been a trade route by which most likely the Gospel actually did permeate Sothern India. Pearls at that time were only found in the Persian Gulf and would have represented the most precious trading commodity. Hence the saying in Mathew13v45ff. In that Gospel it is also a way of identifying and embracing The Eastern World with the Gospel faith. Hence the "Sons" Fruit or Children of the pearl that you are discussing here must have been the early Christians in those lands. Does this seem relevant? For those interested in studying the work of St Ephrem in English see "Ephrem the Syrian: Hymns" by Kathleen McVey Pub1989 Blessings all round.
Bazalgette, what an amazing overview, and an astute application for today. Thank you for taking the time! This is very helpful. Our team in London is putting together all of St Ephrem's antecedents to the Qur'an, which I will begin filming and uploading in a month or two, so 'stay tuned'!
Muhammad Abdullah + Khadijah Khuwaylid The Praised/Anointed Servant + Early/Premee (before its time, what shouldnt be happening) /Virgin Born Eternal Son/child
I also find this interesting: Fatimah bint Amr Muhammed Grandmother Mother/Nurse loving/caring?/long life Most loving Mother? Aminah Wahb Muhammed Mother Honest Faithful/Gift(Al Wahhab:The Bestower) Mary Mother was the best caregiver appointed by a the Father as bestower of His Word, His Son, Jesus
Some Sincere 7000 Plus Muslims ...Well Learned .....are Stumped by this Episode .. and are Furiously Furrowing Out of Islam. May The I AM God Guide ALL Muslims Into His Glorious Light.
When we Christian Catholics pray the Rosary, we say: "Hail Mary Mother of God The Lord is with Thee, Blessed Are Thou Amongst Women and Blessed is THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB, JESUS. Great scholarly research. Blessing from Puerto Rico !! Sins of Islam Monitor @IslamSins
Good job guys!!! Without a doubt the writers of the Koran used St Ephraim’s work, amongst other Christian and Jewish writings in their aim to put a holy book together quickly for the masses.
🍇🍷🍾White crystal grapes" can refer to an ancient high quality wine process; The grapes were intentionally contagiated with a kind of fungus that only eats the grape's skin, leaving it naked and "CRYSYAL Clear", leading to a more sweet & less bitter wine that was sold for the highest price. * Jews were prohibited by their law to use that fungus.
That sounds similar to the process for obtaining Fino or Manzanilla which is produced in South Spain. They use a fungus that only grows on that soil and adheres to the skin of the grape.
Surah 37:49 In Arabic ابيض (abyaD) - white is from the same root as egg. Arabic بيضة (bayDah) - egg, Hebrew ביצה (bytzah) - egg, and Syriac ܒܝܥܬܐ (by3taa) - egg. Are cognates, and all of North-Western Semitic origin. Notice the final ة/ה (h) in both Hebrew and Arabic, because egg is a feminine word. In the Ethiopic branch this same root renders the meaning yellow albeit with a modification from the ض/צ equivalent to the ط/ט equivalent, see Tigrinya ብጫ (betcha), and Amharic ቢጫ (bitcha). The exact word used in Surah 37:49 is بَيۡضٞ (bayDun). BiiD بيض without the final ة can be read as a plural of white. The un dotting, pluralizes a masculine noun in the nominative-case, which excludes eggs as its meaning (at least in the Hafs). Therefore would render the meaning as something like the white ones. Meaning in all likelihood white grapes. Surah 76:19 Hebrew ילד (yaled) - to give birth Hebrew ילד (yeled) - a male child Hebrew יולד (yoled) - begat Hebrew ולד (walad) - child. Ref Gen 11:30 In the Hebrew the literal meaning of yeled/walad is something like 'one of birth', thus meaning child. The Syriac ܝܠܕܐ ܕܓܦܬܐ (yaldaa d-gaftaa) in this context means the one birthed of the grapevine. Wildaan ولدان, is the plural of ولد (walad), which is an exact spelling equivalent of ולד as per Gen 11:30. Surah 76:19 is literally saying the birthed ones. This could refer to a bunch/cluster of grapes, if the text that inspired this Surah used the idiom of yaldaa d-gaftaa. Which itself is probably an extention of the idiomatic language used as in Luke 1:42, as per the slide 'The Peshitta uses "yalda": fruit/child': ܦܐܪܐ ܕܒܟܪܣܟܝ (peeraa d-abkarseki) literally means fruit which is in your womb. ܕܒܟܪܣܟܝ breaks down as ܕ that/which + ܒ [is] in + ܟܪܣ womb + ܟܝ your. Any and all feedback is welcome.
@@IslamicOrigins I'm not an accredited Linguist, Philologist, nor any other type of accredited language specialist. With regards to SIN sifting ان شاء الله (in shaa Allah).
NANGGALING NA AKO SA LANGIT AT LUMAPIT AKO SA AMA HARI NG KATUWIRAN. MAY BANAL NA KATANUNGAN AKO SA KANYA!! DAPAT BA NA PUTULAN NG ULO ANG MGA MANDARAYA O MANLOLOKO PARA HINDI NA PAMARISAN ITO?!. Hebreo 4:12. Hebreo 6:18. 2Corinto 12:1-4.
Amazing work Mel, just when I think I'm getting a grasp of things you come up this, which is fabulous, a big thanks to Murad for his insight and to Dr. Jay Smith for hosing it on his channel, and the very useful summaries he writes as well👍
That's a lot to take in in one session but it makes sense. I could not see how K.44: 54 could change so radically from houris (= 72 virgins) based on only a couple of words in one sura but the reference back to St. Ephrem and the various linguistic and semantic connections make a very convincing case. Great research all around. Please keep us informed of Murad's translation. Thanks to all concerned. Keep up the good work.
About the number 72: in Luke 10:1 the Bible speaks of Jesus sending out 72 disciples, and He says: “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.". Could there be a link with this, maybe somewhere in St. Ephrem's hymns?
@@IslamicOrigins the number 70/72 needs further consideration not least the LXX Scripture and the 70 + 2 prophets alongside Moses Numbers 11:16-25,Deuteronomy 21:15-17 - Numbers 11:26-30. Somewhere somebody recently sent me a catalogue of the significance of 70/72 both in scripture and Jewish/Christian tradition and beyond, but I cannot now find it. Perhaps they are watching and will advise further. Are there not 73 sects of Islam 72 in the fire. Do they represent elements of the older Christian/Jewish dispensations that would not assimilate with the revised Islamic Narrative?
Enoch also comments that the Fruit of Knowledge is like grapes. Likewise many ancient carvings of Eden throughout Iraq, Syria, Turkey show scenes of: cherubim, serpents, sun-with-wings, Nimrod, and ... the Fruit of Knowledge ... which resembles a grape vine.
It is likely that the Arabic "madrasah" is etymologically related to the Hebrew cognate "midrash" (מדרש). This carries the meaning "interpretation" and the act of seeking answers or "study". In the Hebrew bible, this word can refer to "books" or "writings/annals".
Hebrew didn’t exist. You are using an interpretation of a Canaanite text from the Middle Ages as a criteria over a living language (Arabic). What you consider to be Hebrew is not historical. It’s a project from the Middle Ages to try to make sense of a Canaanite text. They used Arabic and Aramaic for this text.
@@professorx9919 The evidence is very simple. The only ‘Hebrew’ words are words found in the OT. All other ‘Hebrew’ words that are not in the OT are all copied from Aramaic and Arabic. What does that mean? It means the ‘Hebrew’ language is based on the OT text. It means the ‘Hebrew’ language is based on a text. If you compare that with Arabic. There are hundreds of thousands Arabic words outside the Quran. What does this mean? It means that Arabic was an actual real language that was used. It means this was a living language spoken and transmitted by people. The ‘Hebrew’ language is a medieval failed reconstruction of a Canaanite text by a few Rabbis who spoke Aramaic and Arabic. The language you try to claim doesn’t go further back than the Middle Ages. They didn’t speak Canaanite. This was a dead language for many of hundred years. They also didn’t live in the Levant. They didn’t have the tongue from thus region. I can go on and on. This is the deception when people try to make ‘Hebrew’ identical to what people in 1400 bce actually spoke in the Levant.
Hats off to you gentlemen exegeting the verses in the Quran, obviously misconstrued and given sexual connotations by the authors of this medieval book.Its mind boggling as to how the spiritual hymns about Paradise were sexualized in the Quran, probably to appease the bedouins in tents in the scorching heat with promises of carnality....Lord have mercy. Good to see Mel( Seems after ages) and St Murad I hope Santa will bring your book to me this wintry snowy Christmas, and of course Dr Jay I love your poetry...the more you guys scratch the surface of the Book the more you find, and the more you find the more they Whine ,and the more they whine, the more you shine.Keep shining the pearls of wisdom of Christ and to be honest I feel sorry for the jihadis who will have to satiate their lust with grapes...lol Keep up the good work and God bless you all immensely....Ameen
Why does the second person in the trinity have a human body for eternity? Why does he have a male tool in heaven? You claim that carnal is evil. Why does your god have a carnal body? Why does he resurrect people in a carnal body?🥴🤥🤥
@@IslamicOrigins A second person is a second god. What makes you think two persons are one god? What do you mean by one god? One self? One mind? What exactly?
HOLY QUESTION ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT. HOW CAN YOU READ THE BIBLE IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE BEGINNING?!. IF YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE SIN WHY DO YOU PREACH THE WORD OF GOD?!. HOW DOES THE DIVINE QUESTION FIT INTO THE BIBLE IF IT IS INFINITE?!. WHY DO YOU WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN AND WHAT DO YOU DO THERE?!. Proverb 30:4-6?!. Proverb 3:5-6. Proverb 21:1. Isaiah 53:1-6?!. Hebrew 6:18. Hebrew 4:12. Isaiah 34:16-17.
the bitter fruit and the sweet fruit refere to the evil and the good knowledge... Jesus curse the tree that has bitter fruit... because off course he will reject evil... he will forgive sinners who reject their evil deeds and come back to the good but reject none the less the evil fruits.
One puzzling thing for a reader of the Arabic Holy Book, The Quran, is the many references to the pronouns "We" and "Us" - when giving commandments/instructions to the messenger (Muhammad bin Abdullah) . Believers get confused about why the One God is referred to as "We" and "Us", almost never in the singular "I" in the Holy Arabic Book. The Giver of these messages is supposed to be the singular Creator of the Universe cum moral Police - Allah. . But for anybody who is not from the cult, with a curious mind to find the historical origin of The Book and The Man and The Cult - there are many clues within the Book itself that can illuminate us about the origin of The Book itself, "We" and "Us" possibly indicate a committee of preachers, led by their leader Gabriel - who preached Nestorian Christianity (non-divine Jesus, not son of God but a mere mortal messenger) to the Jewish Arabs in the Levant region (Syria). . So they were not Catholic Christians, and therefore had their differences/conflicts with the Byzantine Empire. . Quran most likely was the collection of diverse preaching material (for Nestorian Christianity) possibly written in Aramaic (Syriac) - which was later compiled by some Caliph. . There is hardly any archaeological, numismatic or literary proof of even the Rashidun Caliphate that took over the Arab leadership after the death of the original leader, Muhammad bin Abdullah. So Uthman, being the compiler was a suspect. . It is good to remember, Arabic was not a Literary language in the 7th century, but a vernacular of illiterate Arabs. Nothing exists in Arabic before the late 7th century CE. . Whereas, its superior cousin, Aramaic, was an ancient language, and was the language of the Silk Route that terminated in Damascus (Syria). . Aramaic was the language of religion in that area, besides business and commerce. For example, Jesus of Nazareth was a native Aramaic speaker. . The Caliph (most likely not Uthman, the traditionally accepted compiler) who compiled and edited The Quran, collected whatever he can get hold of, he didn't realize the clues he is leaving behind for us to figure out its origin. He was at least honest in his collection. . Also, there are many verses that look like commandments to an Army regiment - mercenary men (never women) - mostly populated by illiterate Arabic speakers (some Jewish some pagans) the Caliphs were raising an army who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the loot and the glory after death. . The Book is not a discourse on spirituality or how to conduct life in a civilized and peaceful manner. . Most Likely Muhammad bin Abdulla was a warlord only, leader of an archaic Jewish cult (so many archaic Jewish traditions) and Islam as a tradition was later redacted to project him as the Prophet. So, for all practical purposes, today's Muslims are all essentially Christians, not Catholic but Nestorian Christians. . I also suspect, the Umayyad were of Greek origin, a local Arab-Greek aristocracy, who possibly hijacked the original Jewish-Arab movement. The first Fitna or civil war is because of this transfer of power. . Else why the sudden urge to conquer the East (India) and the West (Egypt). Are they trying to mimic the empire of Alexander? Illiterate and local bandits neither have a such broad knowledge of Geography nor the desire to build an Empire.
@Arunabha Ghosh Before 750 CE, every written word 'Muhammad' was WITHOUT a 'bin' following it. Whether the Dome of the Rock inscriptions, or the supposed early letters, same story: there is no 'bin' following the word 'Muhammad'. In the writings of the Abbasid period (from 750 CE), Muhammad gets a "bin Abdullah" - to suggest that Abdullah was the father of Muhammad.
@Arunabha Ghosh Also, 'Jesus of Nazareth' was a fourth century creation. A close read of the Gospel of Matthew ("The Gospel of the Nazarenes" - minus the first and the last chapters, which would have been added in the 4th century) - indicates that it was "Jesus the Nazirite".
you are starting to get it Jay... jesus metaphor of the vine... and the Messiah having the same value of name as the serpent Nahash of that very same event... yeap, if only human could stop blaming others for their sin and repent when god come back into the garden....
I take it that the word "Madrasha" is the writings of St. Ephrem? Could that be the evolved word "Madrasa" that the Muslims call their religious schools?
@@alonzoharris9049 It's possible that the word "Madrasha" evolved into the word "Madrasa." Since most everything is islam is a copy of other religions it seems likely.
@@sheikhboyardee556 How do you know the words is pronounced as Madrasha? Just answer the question. Before you make a silly claim about borrowing. How do you know the pronunciation of these letters?
@@alonzoharris9049 The answer is I don't. I merely pointed out that the word Madrasa could have derived from the word Madrasha. I think you have very thin skin & need to relax.
@@sheikhboyardee556 Why should that be the case?🥴 You people should stop with your nonsense. Syriac was only spoken in and around Edessa. The claim that Syriac was spoken by the masses is a complete myth. Let’s also not forget that Syriac originated under the rule of the Arabic Abgar dynasty in Edessa.
All that fruit of Divine stuff can be found in Orthodox/Catholic Church. I grew up on Roman Catholic teachings and it just sounds similar to the words the Priest/Father use to say before communion. He use to say, 'fruit of divine and thy work of human hand he will become our spiritual gift'
Muhammad Abdullah + Khadijah Khuwaylid The Praised/Anointed Servant + Early/Premee (before its time, what shouldnt be happening) /Virgin Born Eternal Son/child
Abdullah ibn Abd al-Muttalib Muhammed Grandfather (Like a Step Father to Mohammed) Servent God Seeker The Gospel of Matthew tells us that Joseph(Jesus Stepfather) was a righteous, good, and kind man, very disciplined and obedient to God. Fatimah bint Amr Muhammed Grandmother Mother/Nurse loving/caring?/long life Most loving Mother? Aminah Wahb Muhammed Mother Honest Faithful/Gift(Al Wahhab:The Bestower) Mary Mother was the best caregiver appointed by the Father as bestower of His Word, His Son, Jesus
72? Maybe here there is a link again to the gospels where 72 (or 70) were send out representing the number of disinherited nations (Genesis)? It could be a coincidence but maybe there is a somewhat hidden link? (See videos Michael Heiser on 72).
I think wildanun mukhalladun comes from Pauline theology. Paul's gosbel talks about devine heavenly beings that people in Christ will turn into and a cosmic heavenly family. The expression could be possibly coming from there. And of course that heavenly family is compromised children of God. Just a thought.
72 is a precessional number. 72 years is one day of the in total 360 days of the great astronomical year of aprx 26 000 years. Look up the precession of the equinoxes.
Many thanks for this studious discussion, representing much work. Perhaps stating the obvious, in understanding Saint Ephrem’s teachings, and thence the theological frame of the proto-Qur’an, one might need to understand what “Christ”, and thus Jesus, is or means from the perspective of the miaphysitism of Saint Ephrem’s day. Though he lived before the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon and is venerated by the Roman Catholic Church as well as in Eastern Christianity, his perspective on the nature of Jesus, as “the Incarnation of Christ”, regards Jesus to be of _one nature_ that is simultaneously (i.e nondualistically) divine _and_ human, which differs from the doctrine of dyophysitism regarding Jesus as having _two natures_ (the divine and the human) completely and perfectly unified in himself. (Though these two ‘manners of speaking’ could be synthesised in an individual understanding to be not mutually-exclusive, as isolated received doctrinal statements they might conduce toward different deductive inferences and psychological influence.) This certainly seems to fit well with research identifying the completed conversion of Umar as being through the Syriac, Saint Gabriel of Qartmin. As I understand it, this miaphysite perspective on a human “Incarnation of Christ” accords with Jewish messianic theology (Joe could clarify whether this is so); and knowledge of this connection might help also in understanding other elements of the proto-Qur’an; for Umar may not have renounced his “Judaism”, as if turning away from all aspects of that religious framework (of whatever contemporary branch) toward an unrelated “Christianity”, but rather incorporated his messianic view of _Jesus_ into it. (I guess that examination of material evidence will indicate to what extent this is or is not so.) Joe spoke of Judeo-Arabic in connection with the Qur’an, and I wonder if knowledge of this vernacular would be of further help with translation, including presently obscure passages (though, as remarked, much changed over time). In Judaism, the number 72 crops up in the Names of God, the Heavenly Tribunal, the Elders of the Tradition, and other religion-linked connotations; but this may not have influenced the later Islamic commentators.
I will not drink henceforth from this product of vine since I will drink it again with you in my Father's kingdom ??? No drinking of vine till we met again in Heaven....
So in old hymns and old poetry the cross is a tree. And christ carried the cross, bar but if u think of a vine, its a climbing plant. You put up a stick or staff and it stretches out over this post. Thats an interesting idea compared to the cross .
I think that you are misunderstanding the passage. Its not 72 grapes, but grape vines. It comes from the preislamic greek period. The righteous would be rewarded in the Elisian fields with their own bit of paradise, including a vineyard that will produce the wine they will enjoy in heaven.
We must not lose sight of the fact that the Koran is originally a book of Christian preaching used by the Nazarenes (an anti-Trinitarian Judeo-Christian sect), the term "houri" حُور of Syriac origin (language of Christians of that time) means "white grape" and we know that in the Christian tradition the grape is an emblematic fruit of paradise... nothing to do with "virgins with black eyes", pure sexual fantasy intended to stimulate and reward the brave warriors of Islam
Huri, Strongs H2359, in Chronicles 5. Meaning linen-weaver ( from the root hur). Pointing the white robe of righteousness ( book of Revelation). Yeled, Strongs H3206: son, child , boy. From the root Yalad (Strongs H3205). Zanjabeel: Hebrew Zanvil means ginger. Ephraim , Strongs G2187, Greek, meaning double fruitfulness . From Hebrew H669. Look at the symbolic spiritual meanings of the 2 trees in the garden . Tree of Life ( the word … became life, truth…) Tree of WISDOM of good and evil ( man’s wisdom, carnal, earthy, ). The fig tree ( covering with its leaves): Cursed by Jesus before going to the ✝️. At the end of the book of revelation: only one tree: the tree of Life= Lord Christ Jesus.
The Holy Quaran mention that the earth and the Sky is not for ever these all planets reveve thier Exis .and the Erth is enough for liveves and death these are the sambolic which used those peoples who will be do the noble deeds avoide the sins and will abidence of the Allah Commandment and believe on the prophets who are appointed by Allah for the education of Hikmat and and every noble progress .
Just brainstorming , just tuned in , yes ive read the koran and bible . Now you were saying yalda jopetta . Jopwtta was a dollmaker or made little boys come to life . Yaldaboth is supposedly qho the masons like ? Yaldaboth is one of the 10 stations of moloch , which has to do with what sacrificing little boys and bringing them back ( well see ) theystery of the tares . Eacj station is allowed 10 sons . All the rest are tares . Per didymus who assembles moloch . Therefore masons are tares . I havent narrowed it down are they talking about the 10 promised sons each or are they referring to the tares .
This is interesting but I think you're ignoring an important fact and thereby missing the point. "Anav" in Biblical Hebrew means both "grape" and "meek". It's not saying there will be lots of grapes in heaven (but this may well be true), it's saying that there will be lots of meek in heaven!
the tree of knowledge of good and evil WAS a vine... it'S clear from the book of moses... let'S me resume... adam and eve eat the fruit... they see themselve nude ... they cover themselve... they are chased from the garden... human become evil... good will punish them with a flood... but save Noah.... noah and his familly survive... then... Noah was the first to plant vine... et drank of wive and got dring and he discarded his cloth, being nude... one of his son see him ... go fetch his brothers... then Noah curse that son... that's commun structure of the bible to make echo within the story of one even to another... then... you got the Naxireat axactly of numbers 6:4... where those who vow to dedicate themselve to god... don'T shave nor cut their beard... and don't drink of grape nor even eat the skin or the seed... all that is a vow to return to before the fall from eden... keeping the image of god and not eating of the grape... it's obvious that it was all along the Grape the forbiden fruit... to those who are listenning careful... it's quite strange that both among christians and muslim that specific parts was shaded and obfuscated to divert peoples from understanding it clearly... the christian making them believe it was the apple... and the muslim making them believe it was virgin...
and for your information... the fruit of life was pommegranata... I'll let you figure that out why that'S so... well that's the symbolism... if you believe that to be litterally yoiu are already lost.
Jesús said, pray to God not to me. Mohammed, even the fictive or imaginary one, should have said the same thing. Not one of them should be worshipped, as Jesus taught us, but only God. 4 God we R. But from a historical view this information is fun, because not women and not grapes wait for them, but very possibly another reincarnation. Especially when died by suicide the souls have to finish another life, according to a book of Dolores Cannon. That sucks 😂😅😂 I know only One with this excellent taste of humor, GOD his Highness, our lovely Father, himself 😂
So, what your god does to your brain is that in your own paradise, the only thing you will be doing is sleeping with women. Sexual paradise!!! May the good God save your soul and every other souls that had been deceived for a long time now.
Jesus has a mother. God is only one and has no mother. Mary prayed to the one God. Mary did not pray to a baby she gave birth to and took care of. Dont be deluded.
You do not have the Spirit, therefore you cannot understand the doctrine of the Trinity: The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c]" The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2
@@olafliflaf satan are from the jinn Many christians mistook the effects of a jinn in the human body as one part of their trinity :"Holy Spirit/ghost". These can be seen including in churches. Uncontrollable body movement, speaking in tongues, hearing voices, in a trance being posessed are effects of jinn in the human body. Example The Devil/Satan who deceived Adam is from the jinn. Similar type of body reactions can be seen in many other cultural and religious occasions all around the world. This include vodoo ceremonies where spirits are wrongly invoked and prayed to. In various idolatry and polytheist religions and practises, the jinns are wrongly taken as deities/gods. They are also referred to as spirits. Others call them ghosts. These are against the First commandment which is the foremost tenet of the religion of Abraham. God is not a jinn. God created jinns. Jinns are created by God as humans are.
@@olafliflaf God is only one. God is not one group of three. God sent messengers. God is not a messenger. Jesus was a messenger from a long line of messengers that includes Noah, Abraham and Moses. Messengers are chosen from men to convey message to men. And We have already SENT Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants prophethood and scripture; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient. Then We SENT following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Injil (Gospel). (Al-Quran 57: 26-27) Then We SENT after them Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his establishment, but they were unjust toward them. So see how was the end of the corrupters. And Moses said, O Pharaoh, I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds Obligated not to say about Allah except the truth. I have come to you with clear evidence from your Lord, so send with me the Children of Israel. (Al-Quran 7: 103-105) And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. (Al-Quran 2: 87) The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. (Al-Quran 5: 75) Their messengers said to them, "We are only men like you, but Allah confers favor upon whom He wills of His servants. It has never been for us to bring you evidence except by permission of Allah . And upon Allah let the believers rely. (Al-Quran 14: 11) God sent Jesus. God is not Jesus. Allah chooses from the angels, messengers and from men. Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing. (Al-Quran 22: 75)
@@olafliflaf (Continued) There are angel messengers He sends down the angels, with the inspiration of His command, upon whom He wills of His servants, "Warn that there is no ilah (deity/god) except Me; so fear Me." (Al-Quran 16: 2) Angel Gabriel is referred to as The Spirit. And mention, in AlKitab (the Book), Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east. And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Spirit (Angel Gabriel), and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man. She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ." He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy." She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?" He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.' (Al-Quran Translation/interpretation Chapter Mary/Maryam(19) : 16-21) Gabriel identified himself to Mary as "the messenger of your Lord". The story of Gabriel appearing before Mary(Maryam) to inform her about her future son (Jesus/Isa) is also mentioned in the gospels. *Angels informing the coming of a newborn child is consistent with angels visiting Abraham and his wife informing them about their future son, Isaac and Jacob and an angel informing Zachariah about his future son, John (Yahya), both incidents mentioned in the current gospels and in the Quran. Angel Gabriel (Jibril) is mentioned by name as the one who brought down the Quran to Prophet Muhammad: Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Jibril (Gabriel) - it is he who has brought it (the Qur'an) down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah, confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers." Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Jibril and Mikal (Michael) - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. (Al-Quran translation 2: 97-98) The one who brought it down is also referred to as below: And indeed, it (the Qur'an) is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds. Has brought it down by Arruhul-amin (The Trustworthy Spirit) (Al-Quran translation 26: 192-193) Say, [O Muhammad], "ruhulQudus (spirit of the Holy) has brought it down from your rabb (Lord) in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims." (Al-Quran translations 16: 102) Ruh Al-Quddus is mentioned in the arabic Quran. Ruh meaning spirit, Al-Quddus is one of the names of God, meaning The Holy/ All-Holy/ All-Pure. Angels have wings. [All] praise is [due] to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. (Al-Quran 35: 1) Who did Jesus actually see descending that is mentioned in the gospels. [Gabriel said], "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful - (Al-Quran 19: 64) God sent angels. God is not an angel. It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah," rather, "be rabbaniyyun, because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it." Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as arbaban (lords). Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims? (Al-Quran 3: 79-80) There are angel messengers There are human messengers. God is not an angel. God is not a human. God is only one. God have no son. God is not one third of three. God is not a messenger. God sent messengers. Indeed, Allah is but one ilah (deity/god). Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. (Al-Quran 4: 171) فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ (Allah) السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ According to arabic translations of the bible that you can find online, Allah (الله ) is the Creator of the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1: 1 Indeed, your rabb (Lord) is Allah, who created the heavens and earth ... (Al-Quran translation 7: 54) Alaha refers to God in aramaic. Aramaic is a semitic language believed to be spoken by Jesus. Semitic languages include hebrew and arabic and have similarities.
![Lord of Spirits - Fiend Folio [Ep. 102]](/img/n.gif)
Brethren,
I applaud this work and especially the painstaking work of Mel now on St Ephrem. Was going to write on your own video last Mel night. To some extent Jay has redressed the issue here but it should be emphasised further. I think to help viewers understand the significance of St Ephrem: He is the most prolific patristic writer and composer especially in the Syriac language .To describe him simply in the context of "liturgical" worship sounds too remote and academic.
He is the John Wesley or perhaps nowadays, the Graham Kendrick of Christian worship in the 4th Century. His musical melodies outlining the depths of mystery in the Christian Gospel would have been sung not only in the churches but by ordinary people and children going about their daily life. Like both of those writer/composers Ephrem is universally owned within the Miaphysite, (Egyptian/Ethiopian) Byzantine, Diophysite ("Nestorian") Armenian and Latin Catholic Apostolic Churches. His work was translated into Coptic-Geeze-Armenian-Greek Latin and so many related languages besides. His catalogue was further extended by other writers trying to emulate his style nowadays advisedly noted as "Pseudo Ephrem". 1700 years later, visiting Ethiopia in 2005 I was surprised to find prominent Icons to St Ephrem even in the most backwater and primitive Ethiopian Orthodox churches. He stands either at the door of the Church or alongside the great names like the Theotokos (BVM) and John the (Baptist) "Forerunner". "Western" Christians both Catholic and Protestant will not immediately understand the colossal significance of St Ephrem. In the modern Catholic Church he is (since the 1st world war) venerated as a "Doctor" of the church. That is to say somebody who has taught the entire church something about the mystery of Christ and the Gospel. (In the wake of WW1 by Pope Benedict NB the XV promoted Ephrem as a figure of unity between all the traumatised ancient Apostolic Churches). Given the connection between "Mohammed" (name used advisedly) and the early Islamic association with the land of Ethiopia, it would have been impossible for Quranic compilers to avoid or overlook the legacy of so much popular and widespread material of Ephrem.
On a related issue in Syriac Christianity the "Pearl" is the most frequent title for the Gospel itself (as well as Christ). We see this most of all in the "Hymn of the Pearl" which is part of the "Apocryphal Acts of St Thomas". Although this is a largely gnostic text (or at least a text that has been overwritten with gnostic themes) here "the pearl" actually speaks for itself travelling down the Euphrates and the Persian Gulf taking the Gospel message to India. This would have been a trade route by which most likely the Gospel actually did permeate Sothern India. Pearls at that time were only found in the Persian Gulf and would have represented the most precious trading commodity. Hence the saying in Mathew13v45ff. In that Gospel it is also a way of identifying and embracing The Eastern World with the Gospel faith. Hence the "Sons" Fruit or Children of the pearl that you are discussing here must have been the early Christians in those lands. Does this seem relevant?
For those interested in studying the work of St Ephrem in English see "Ephrem the Syrian: Hymns" by Kathleen McVey Pub1989
Blessings all round.
Great addition!
Bazalgette, what an amazing overview, and an astute application for today. Thank you for taking the time! This is very helpful. Our team in London is putting together all of St Ephrem's antecedents to the Qur'an, which I will begin filming and uploading in a month or two, so 'stay tuned'!
Thank you!
@@pfanderfilms by now you should have realized that we are in the little season of satan....revelation 20 vers 7
There would be sin in the multitude of words.
Thank you for having me in this discussion 🙌
Murad I am your new patron💖
Muhammad Abdullah + Khadijah Khuwaylid
The Praised/Anointed Servant + Early/Premee (before its time, what shouldnt be happening) /Virgin Born Eternal Son/child
I also find this interesting:
Fatimah bint Amr
Muhammed Grandmother
Mother/Nurse loving/caring?/long life
Most loving Mother?
Aminah Wahb
Muhammed Mother
Honest Faithful/Gift(Al Wahhab:The Bestower)
Mary Mother was the best caregiver appointed by a the Father as bestower of His Word, His Son, Jesus
@@Saint-Murad that is a awesome .. love you Emma :)
I can't wait until your translation is finished. I'd love to read it.
Some Sincere 7000 Plus Muslims ...Well Learned .....are Stumped by this Episode .. and are Furiously Furrowing Out of Islam. May The I AM God Guide ALL Muslims Into His Glorious Light.
May GOD preserve you to uproot this ugly deception and build the truth that will liberate Muslims from this dying for nothing
When we Christian Catholics pray the Rosary, we say: "Hail Mary Mother of God The Lord is with Thee, Blessed Are Thou Amongst Women and Blessed is THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB, JESUS.
Great scholarly research.
Blessing from Puerto Rico !!
Sins of Islam Monitor
@IslamSins
Great to link up again, Jay and Murad. 👍
Fantastic. I love finding the truth. Praise the Triune God for shining his light of truth upon us.
Morning has broken, like the first morning. Wonderful. Grape’s (Jesus) and vines love it!
Please use subtitles for those of us who are trying to follow this series and are deaf or very hard of hearing. Thank you.
If you press the “CC” TH-cam auto generates
Brilliant. The SIN sifters team is unstoppable. It's very nice to have a dialog between Murad and Mel, and Jay. I'm impatient to read Murad's work.
Murad's Quoran is ready.
Can you imagine 72 mothers-in-law?!
That would be Muslim Hell.
Lol. Only one mother in law is enough for the strongest of men. 72 that means(PhD) poverty, hardship, and depression.
@@ericbadu3726 I guess that means I have a PhD in women.
Great video guys! God bless you all and your ministry!
I’ll have to download this to listen on the way to work ✌️. May our almighty bless you all 🙏✝️
Great job.we love you J smith👍💖
Good job guys!!! Without a doubt the writers of the Koran used St Ephraim’s work, amongst other Christian and Jewish writings in their aim to put a holy book together quickly for the masses.
You are absolutely right my brother Dr Jay
GBU brothers.
muslim recites quran, ex-muslim has understood it.
🍇🍷🍾White crystal grapes" can refer to an ancient high quality wine process;
The grapes were intentionally contagiated with a kind of fungus that only eats the grape's skin, leaving it naked and "CRYSYAL Clear", leading to a more sweet & less bitter wine that was sold for the highest price.
* Jews were prohibited by their law to use that fungus.
That sounds similar to the process for obtaining Fino or Manzanilla which is produced in South Spain. They use a fungus that only grows on that soil and adheres to the skin of the grape.
What an epic comment
Surah 37:49
In Arabic ابيض (abyaD) - white is from the same root as egg.
Arabic بيضة (bayDah) - egg, Hebrew ביצה (bytzah) - egg, and Syriac ܒܝܥܬܐ (by3taa) - egg. Are cognates, and all of North-Western Semitic origin. Notice the final ة/ה (h) in both Hebrew and Arabic, because egg is a feminine word.
In the Ethiopic branch this same root renders the meaning yellow albeit with a modification from the ض/צ equivalent to the ط/ט equivalent, see Tigrinya ብጫ (betcha), and Amharic ቢጫ (bitcha).
The exact word used in Surah 37:49 is بَيۡضٞ (bayDun). BiiD بيض without the final ة can be read as a plural of white. The un dotting, pluralizes a masculine noun in the nominative-case, which excludes eggs as its meaning (at least in the Hafs). Therefore would render the meaning as something like the white ones. Meaning in all likelihood white grapes.
Surah 76:19
Hebrew ילד (yaled) - to give birth
Hebrew ילד (yeled) - a male child
Hebrew יולד (yoled) - begat
Hebrew ולד (walad) - child. Ref Gen 11:30
In the Hebrew the literal meaning of yeled/walad is something like 'one of birth', thus meaning child. The Syriac ܝܠܕܐ ܕܓܦܬܐ (yaldaa d-gaftaa) in this context means the one birthed of the grapevine.
Wildaan ولدان, is the plural of ولد (walad), which is an exact spelling equivalent of ולד as per Gen 11:30. Surah 76:19 is literally saying the birthed ones. This could refer to a bunch/cluster of grapes, if the text that inspired this Surah used the idiom of yaldaa d-gaftaa.
Which itself is probably an extention of the idiomatic language used as in Luke 1:42, as per the slide 'The Peshitta uses "yalda": fruit/child': ܦܐܪܐ ܕܒܟܪܣܟܝ (peeraa d-abkarseki) literally means fruit which is in your womb. ܕܒܟܪܣܟܝ breaks down as ܕ that/which + ܒ [is] in + ܟܪܣ womb + ܟܝ your.
Any and all feedback is welcome.
Ilan as always: an utterly outstanding contribution. You need to become the next Sin Sifter. We need more linguists on this.
@@IslamicOrigins I'm not an accredited Linguist, Philologist, nor any other type of accredited language specialist.
With regards to SIN sifting ان شاء الله (in shaa Allah).
NANGGALING NA AKO SA LANGIT AT LUMAPIT AKO SA AMA HARI NG KATUWIRAN. MAY BANAL NA KATANUNGAN AKO SA KANYA!! DAPAT BA NA PUTULAN NG ULO ANG MGA MANDARAYA O MANLOLOKO PARA HINDI NA PAMARISAN ITO?!. Hebreo 4:12. Hebreo 6:18. 2Corinto 12:1-4.
Espectacular.
When will the translation be available. I'd love to read it.
Amazing work Mel, just when I think I'm getting a grasp of things you come up this, which is fabulous, a big thanks to Murad for his insight and to Dr. Jay Smith for hosing it on his channel, and the very useful summaries he writes as well👍
That's a lot to take in in one session but it makes sense. I could not see how K.44: 54 could change so radically from houris (= 72 virgins) based on only a couple of words in one sura but the reference back to St. Ephrem and the various linguistic and semantic connections make a very convincing case. Great research all around. Please keep us informed of Murad's translation. Thanks to all concerned. Keep up the good work.
very Educative
About the number 72: in Luke 10:1 the Bible speaks of Jesus sending out 72 disciples, and He says: “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few.". Could there be a link with this, maybe somewhere in St. Ephrem's hymns?
Makes sense with the emanating white/glowing clarity/light Murad mentioned.
That would be a better link. Good stuff!
@@IslamicOrigins Yeah, I mean specifically when Mourad stated that the Quran uses a word that is related to Houris for the disciples.
@@IslamicOrigins the number 70/72 needs further consideration not least the LXX Scripture and the 70 + 2 prophets alongside Moses Numbers 11:16-25,Deuteronomy 21:15-17 - Numbers 11:26-30. Somewhere somebody recently sent me a catalogue of the significance of 70/72 both in scripture and Jewish/Christian tradition and beyond, but I cannot now find it. Perhaps they are watching and will advise further. Are there not 73 sects of Islam 72 in the fire. Do they represent elements of the older Christian/Jewish dispensations that would not assimilate with the revised Islamic Narrative?
Not 72 but 70 disciple
Enoch also comments that the Fruit of Knowledge is like grapes. Likewise many ancient carvings of Eden throughout Iraq, Syria, Turkey show scenes of: cherubim, serpents, sun-with-wings, Nimrod, and ... the Fruit of Knowledge ... which resembles a grape vine.
It is likely that the Arabic "madrasah" is etymologically related to the Hebrew cognate "midrash" (מדרש). This carries the meaning "interpretation" and the act of seeking answers or "study". In the Hebrew bible, this word can refer to "books" or "writings/annals".
no, the ma- prefix of madrasah its used to designate the "place of" the root d-r-s means study,learning,teaching... so it "means place of study"
Hebrew didn’t exist.
You are using an interpretation of a Canaanite text from the Middle Ages as a criteria over a living language (Arabic).
What you consider to be Hebrew is not historical.
It’s a project from the Middle Ages to try to make sense of a Canaanite text.
They used Arabic and Aramaic for this text.
@@alonzoharris9049 what's your proof for such bold claim
@@professorx9919
The evidence is very simple.
The only ‘Hebrew’ words are words found in the OT.
All other ‘Hebrew’ words that are not in the OT are all copied from Aramaic and Arabic.
What does that mean?
It means the ‘Hebrew’ language is based on the OT text. It means the ‘Hebrew’ language is based on a text.
If you compare that with Arabic. There are hundreds of thousands Arabic words outside the Quran.
What does this mean?
It means that Arabic was an actual real language that was used. It means this was a living language spoken and transmitted by people.
The ‘Hebrew’ language is a medieval failed reconstruction of a Canaanite text by a few Rabbis who spoke Aramaic and Arabic.
The language you try to claim doesn’t go further back than the Middle Ages.
They didn’t speak Canaanite. This was a dead language for many of hundred years.
They also didn’t live in the Levant. They didn’t have the tongue from thus region.
I can go on and on.
This is the deception when people try to make ‘Hebrew’ identical to what people in 1400 bce actually spoke in the Levant.
@@alonzoharris9049 where did you get that from?
Amazing truth about amazing lies in the koran.
72 houris and 72 disciples of Jesus.
Hats off to you gentlemen exegeting the verses in the Quran, obviously misconstrued and given sexual connotations by the authors of this medieval book.Its mind boggling as to how the spiritual hymns about Paradise were sexualized in the Quran, probably to appease the bedouins in tents in the scorching heat with promises of carnality....Lord have mercy.
Good to see Mel( Seems after ages) and St Murad I hope Santa will bring your book to me this wintry snowy Christmas, and of course Dr Jay I love your poetry...the more you guys scratch the surface of the Book the more you find, and the more you find the more they Whine ,and the more they whine, the more you shine.Keep shining the pearls of wisdom of Christ and to be honest I feel sorry for the jihadis who will have to satiate their lust with grapes...lol
Keep up the good work and God bless you all immensely....Ameen
Thanks Juliet for those wonderful words of encouragement! God bless you immensely!
Why does the second person in the trinity have a human body for eternity?
Why does he have a male tool in heaven?
You claim that carnal is evil.
Why does your god have a carnal body?
Why does he resurrect people in a carnal body?🥴🤥🤥
@@alonzoharris9049 You slipped up, you said second person, not second god. gotcha!
@@alonzoharris9049 Blasphemous Abdooool
@@IslamicOrigins
A second person is a second god.
What makes you think two persons are one god?
What do you mean by one god?
One self? One mind? What exactly?
HOLY QUESTION ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT. HOW CAN YOU READ THE BIBLE IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE BEGINNING?!. IF YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE SIN WHY DO YOU PREACH THE WORD OF GOD?!. HOW DOES THE DIVINE QUESTION FIT INTO THE BIBLE IF IT IS INFINITE?!. WHY DO YOU WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN AND WHAT DO YOU DO THERE?!. Proverb 30:4-6?!. Proverb 3:5-6. Proverb 21:1. Isaiah 53:1-6?!. Hebrew 6:18. Hebrew 4:12. Isaiah 34:16-17.
Hey Murad, the Maltese equivalent for walad would be wild, and we still use it (albeit rarely lately) to mean child, ie for both male and female. :)
Mel says "the Vine", it sounds "Devine"!
Happy coincidence! 😁🙏
Wide-eyed virgin is goddess Hera, given Alexander also appear in the Quran as Dhul-qarnyan.
the bitter fruit and the sweet fruit refere to the evil and the good knowledge...
Jesus curse the tree that has bitter fruit...
because off course he will reject evil... he will forgive sinners who reject their evil deeds and come back to the good but reject none the less the evil fruits.
One puzzling thing for a reader of the Arabic Holy Book, The Quran, is the many references to the pronouns "We" and "Us" - when giving commandments/instructions to the messenger (Muhammad bin Abdullah)
.
Believers get confused about why the One God is referred to as "We" and "Us", almost never in the singular "I" in the Holy Arabic Book. The Giver of these messages is supposed to be the singular Creator of the Universe cum moral Police - Allah.
.
But for anybody who is not from the cult, with a curious mind to find the historical origin of The Book and The Man and The Cult - there are many clues within the Book itself that can illuminate us about the origin of The Book itself,
"We" and "Us" possibly indicate a committee of preachers, led by their leader Gabriel - who preached Nestorian Christianity (non-divine Jesus, not son of God but a mere mortal messenger) to the Jewish Arabs in the Levant region (Syria).
.
So they were not Catholic Christians, and therefore had their differences/conflicts with the Byzantine Empire.
.
Quran most likely was the collection of diverse preaching material (for Nestorian Christianity) possibly written in Aramaic (Syriac) - which was later compiled by some Caliph.
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There is hardly any archaeological, numismatic or literary proof of even the Rashidun Caliphate that took over the Arab leadership after the death of the original leader, Muhammad bin Abdullah. So Uthman, being the compiler was a suspect.
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It is good to remember, Arabic was not a Literary language in the 7th century, but a vernacular of illiterate Arabs. Nothing exists in Arabic before the late 7th century CE.
.
Whereas, its superior cousin, Aramaic, was an ancient language, and was the language of the Silk Route that terminated in Damascus (Syria).
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Aramaic was the language of religion in that area, besides business and commerce. For example, Jesus of Nazareth was a native Aramaic speaker.
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The Caliph (most likely not Uthman, the traditionally accepted compiler) who compiled and edited The Quran, collected whatever he can get hold of, he didn't realize the clues he is leaving behind for us to figure out its origin. He was at least honest in his collection.
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Also, there are many verses that look like commandments to an Army regiment - mercenary men (never women) - mostly populated by illiterate Arabic speakers (some Jewish some pagans) the Caliphs were raising an army who are ready to sacrifice their lives for the loot and the glory after death.
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The Book is not a discourse on spirituality or how to conduct life in a civilized and peaceful manner.
.
Most Likely Muhammad bin Abdulla was a warlord only, leader of an archaic Jewish cult (so many archaic Jewish traditions) and Islam as a tradition was later redacted to project him as the Prophet. So, for all practical purposes, today's Muslims are all essentially Christians, not Catholic but Nestorian Christians.
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I also suspect, the Umayyad were of Greek origin, a local Arab-Greek aristocracy, who possibly hijacked the original Jewish-Arab movement. The first Fitna or civil war is because of this transfer of power.
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Else why the sudden urge to conquer the East (India) and the West (Egypt). Are they trying to mimic the empire of Alexander? Illiterate and local bandits neither have a such broad knowledge of Geography nor the desire to build an Empire.
@Arunabha Ghosh Before 750 CE, every written word 'Muhammad' was WITHOUT a 'bin' following it.
Whether the Dome of the Rock inscriptions, or the supposed early letters, same story: there is no 'bin' following the word 'Muhammad'.
In the writings of the Abbasid period (from 750 CE), Muhammad gets a "bin Abdullah" - to suggest that Abdullah was the father of Muhammad.
@Arunabha Ghosh Also, 'Jesus of Nazareth' was a fourth century creation.
A close read of the Gospel of Matthew ("The Gospel of the Nazarenes" - minus the first and the last chapters, which would have been added in the 4th century) - indicates that it was "Jesus the Nazirite".
you are starting to get it Jay... jesus metaphor of the vine... and the Messiah having the same value of name as the serpent Nahash of that very same event...
yeap,
if only human could stop blaming others for their sin and repent when god come back into the garden....
I take it that the word "Madrasha" is the writings of St. Ephrem? Could that be the evolved word "Madrasa" that the Muslims call their religious schools?
How do you know how that word was pronounced?
@@alonzoharris9049 It's possible that the word "Madrasha" evolved into the word "Madrasa." Since most everything is islam is a copy of other religions it seems likely.
@@sheikhboyardee556
How do you know the words is pronounced as Madrasha?
Just answer the question.
Before you make a silly claim about borrowing.
How do you know the pronunciation of these letters?
@@alonzoharris9049 The answer is I don't. I merely pointed out that the word Madrasa could have derived from the word Madrasha. I think you have very thin skin & need to relax.
@@sheikhboyardee556
Why should that be the case?🥴
You people should stop with your nonsense.
Syriac was only spoken in and around Edessa. The claim that Syriac was spoken by the masses is a complete myth.
Let’s also not forget that Syriac originated under the rule of the Arabic Abgar dynasty in Edessa.
How many demons are in the Ars Goetia? 72 (Lesser Key of Solomon).
All that fruit of Divine stuff can be found in Orthodox/Catholic Church. I grew up on Roman Catholic teachings and it just sounds similar to the words the Priest/Father use to say before communion. He use to say, 'fruit of divine and thy work of human hand he will become our spiritual gift'
Fruit of THE VINE and work of human hands rooted in the Jewish Passover prayer
That prayer is still said at Mass.
@@grandoldpartisan8170 Yep I was brought up Roman Catholic so I heard all these references during communion
@@Basaljet Interesting didn't know that and could you break it down more
@@eromonsele1521 The priest says that while holding the chalice just before consecration.
72 is also age of Virgin Mary when she was ascended to heaven according to Catholic Tradition.
💐🙏
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD & THAT IS OURS ✝️✝️✝️ HOLY TRINITY IN ONE GOD ✝️✝️✝️Keep going 🤷♂️🕊🤦🏻♂️✝️👍🥶👹👺🦠
The children of Christ. . . Fruit and branch of the vine who is Jesus.
Muhammad Abdullah + Khadijah Khuwaylid
The Praised/Anointed Servant + Early/Premee (before its time, what shouldnt be happening) /Virgin Born Eternal Son/child
Abdullah ibn Abd al-Muttalib
Muhammed Grandfather (Like a Step Father to Mohammed)
Servent God Seeker
The Gospel of Matthew tells us that Joseph(Jesus Stepfather) was a righteous, good, and kind man, very disciplined and obedient to God.
Fatimah bint Amr
Muhammed Grandmother
Mother/Nurse loving/caring?/long life
Most loving Mother?
Aminah Wahb
Muhammed Mother
Honest Faithful/Gift(Al Wahhab:The Bestower)
Mary Mother was the best caregiver appointed by the Father as bestower of His Word, His Son, Jesus
72? Maybe here there is a link again to the gospels where 72 (or 70) were send out representing the number of disinherited nations (Genesis)? It could be a coincidence but maybe there is a somewhat hidden link? (See videos Michael Heiser on 72).
I was under the impression the tree of knowledge was a fig tree
31.51 hawerijn sounds very much like hawerim in Hebrew, i.e., friends.
I think wildanun mukhalladun comes from Pauline theology. Paul's gosbel talks about devine heavenly beings that people in Christ will turn into and a cosmic heavenly family. The expression could be possibly coming from there. And of course that heavenly family is compromised children of God. Just a thought.
Odd that Arabs wear traditional dress with western aviator sunglasses. Would Mo approve or declare it haram
72 is a precessional number. 72 years is one day of the in total 360 days of the great astronomical year of aprx 26 000 years. Look up the precession of the equinoxes.
Many thanks for this studious discussion, representing much work. Perhaps stating the obvious, in understanding Saint Ephrem’s teachings, and thence the theological frame of the proto-Qur’an, one might need to understand what “Christ”, and thus Jesus, is or means from the perspective of the miaphysitism of Saint Ephrem’s day. Though he lived before the Councils of Ephesus and Chalcedon and is venerated by the Roman Catholic Church as well as in Eastern Christianity, his perspective on the nature of Jesus, as “the Incarnation of Christ”, regards Jesus to be of _one nature_ that is simultaneously (i.e nondualistically) divine _and_ human, which differs from the doctrine of dyophysitism regarding Jesus as having _two natures_ (the divine and the human) completely and perfectly unified in himself. (Though these two ‘manners of speaking’ could be synthesised in an individual understanding to be not mutually-exclusive, as isolated received doctrinal statements they might conduce toward different deductive inferences and psychological influence.) This certainly seems to fit well with research identifying the completed conversion of Umar as being through the Syriac, Saint Gabriel of Qartmin. As I understand it, this miaphysite perspective on a human “Incarnation of Christ” accords with Jewish messianic theology (Joe could clarify whether this is so); and knowledge of this connection might help also in understanding other elements of the proto-Qur’an; for Umar may not have renounced his “Judaism”, as if turning away from all aspects of that religious framework (of whatever contemporary branch) toward an unrelated “Christianity”, but rather incorporated his messianic view of _Jesus_ into it. (I guess that examination of material evidence will indicate to what extent this is or is not so.) Joe spoke of Judeo-Arabic in connection with the Qur’an, and I wonder if knowledge of this vernacular would be of further help with translation, including presently obscure passages (though, as remarked, much changed over time). In Judaism, the number 72 crops up in the Names of God, the Heavenly Tribunal, the Elders of the Tradition, and other religion-linked connotations; but this may not have influenced the later Islamic commentators.
I will not drink henceforth from this product of vine since I will drink it again with you in my Father's kingdom ??? No drinking of vine till we met again in Heaven....
So in old hymns and old poetry the cross is a tree. And christ carried the cross, bar but if u think of a vine, its a climbing plant. You put up a stick or staff and it stretches out over this post. Thats an interesting idea compared to the cross .
are the 'fountains' also Jesus?
Give the full context.
I think that you are misunderstanding the passage. Its not 72 grapes, but grape vines. It comes from the preislamic greek period. The righteous would be rewarded in the Elisian fields with their own bit of paradise, including a vineyard that will produce the wine they will enjoy in heaven.
We must not lose sight of the fact that the Koran is originally a book of Christian preaching used by the Nazarenes (an anti-Trinitarian Judeo-Christian sect), the term "houri" حُور of Syriac origin (language of Christians of that time) means "white grape" and we know that in the Christian tradition the grape is an emblematic fruit of paradise... nothing to do with "virgins with black eyes", pure sexual fantasy intended to stimulate and reward the brave warriors of Islam
Huri, Strongs H2359, in Chronicles 5.
Meaning linen-weaver ( from the root hur). Pointing the white robe of righteousness ( book of Revelation).
Yeled, Strongs H3206: son, child , boy. From the root Yalad (Strongs H3205).
Zanjabeel: Hebrew Zanvil means ginger.
Ephraim , Strongs G2187, Greek, meaning double fruitfulness . From Hebrew H669.
Look at the symbolic spiritual meanings of the 2 trees in the garden . Tree of Life ( the word … became life, truth…)
Tree of WISDOM of good and evil ( man’s wisdom, carnal, earthy, ). The fig tree ( covering with its leaves): Cursed by Jesus before going to the ✝️. At the end of the book of revelation: only one tree: the tree of Life= Lord Christ Jesus.
Don’t suppose “vine” could be a metaphor for male genitals?
Why do they keep saying the Quran "borrowed" from St Ephrem... they meant "stole" right?
Just curious. How do they say Ephrem in arabic?
How nice and neat. All the muslims will get is Jesus. Ha! How ironic.
The Holy Quaran mention that the earth and the Sky is not for ever these all planets reveve thier Exis .and the Erth is enough for liveves and death these are the sambolic which used those peoples who will be do the noble deeds avoide the sins and will abidence of the Allah Commandment and believe on the prophets who are appointed by Allah for the education of Hikmat and and every noble progress .
Just brainstorming , just tuned in , yes ive read the koran and bible . Now you were saying yalda jopetta . Jopwtta was a dollmaker or made little boys come to life . Yaldaboth is supposedly qho the masons like ? Yaldaboth is one of the 10 stations of moloch , which has to do with what sacrificing little boys and bringing them back ( well see ) theystery of the tares . Eacj station is allowed 10 sons . All the rest are tares . Per didymus who assembles moloch . Therefore masons are tares . I havent narrowed it down are they talking about the 10 promised sons each or are they referring to the tares .
This is interesting but I think you're ignoring an important fact and thereby missing the point. "Anav" in Biblical Hebrew means both "grape" and "meek". It's not saying there will be lots of grapes in heaven (but this may well be true), it's saying that there will be lots of meek in heaven!
the tree of knowledge of good and evil WAS a vine... it'S clear from the book of moses...
let'S me resume...
adam and eve eat the fruit... they see themselve nude ... they cover themselve...
they are chased from the garden... human become evil... good will punish them with a flood...
but save Noah.... noah and his familly survive...
then... Noah was the first to plant vine... et drank of wive and got dring and he discarded his cloth, being nude...
one of his son see him ... go fetch his brothers...
then Noah curse that son...
that's commun structure of the bible to make echo within the story of one even to another...
then... you got the Naxireat axactly of numbers 6:4...
where those who vow to dedicate themselve to god... don'T shave nor cut their beard... and don't drink of grape nor even eat the skin or the seed...
all that is a vow to return to before the fall from eden... keeping the image of god and not eating of the grape...
it's obvious that it was all along the Grape the forbiden fruit... to those who are listenning careful...
it's quite strange that both among christians and muslim that specific parts was shaded and obfuscated to divert peoples from understanding it clearly...
the christian making them believe it was the apple...
and the muslim making them believe it was virgin...
and for your information... the fruit of life was pommegranata... I'll let you figure that out why that'S so...
well that's the symbolism... if you believe that to be litterally yoiu are already lost.
A fig tree
they are raisins
Islam seems to revere young boys. Bacha bazi?
Work on Sanskrit,
Jesús said, pray to God not to me. Mohammed, even the fictive or imaginary one, should have said the same thing. Not one of them should be worshipped, as Jesus taught us, but only God. 4 God we R. But from a historical view this information is fun, because not women and not grapes wait for them, but very possibly another reincarnation. Especially when died by suicide the souls have to finish another life, according to a book of Dolores Cannon. That sucks 😂😅😂 I know only One with this excellent taste of humor, GOD his Highness, our lovely Father, himself 😂
Mel believes in three gods.
Nowhere does the Bible teach tritheism.
Alonzo don’t forget 8.00pm
Alonzo Harris worships Muhammed (PBRB).
@@olafliflaf
The trinity is not found in the bible.
The doctrine of the three gods is in the Nicean creed.
Yawn, ok Bozo, name the 3 god's, I supposedly believe in.
These three Christians believe in three gods.
You can clearly see what the trinity does to the brain.
Alonzo! There you are. hope you are good for 8.00pm tonight! Looking forward to meeting you!
Alonzo Harris worships Muhammed (PBRB).
So, what your god does to your brain is that in your own paradise, the only thing you will be doing is sleeping with women. Sexual paradise!!! May the good God save your soul and every other souls that had been deceived for a long time now.
Alonzo Alonzo Wherefore art thou Alonzo?
Which famous Quranic passage have I plagiarised that from?
Maybe you have retreated to your cave like Gollum? Can you hear a bell?
Jesus has a mother.
God is only one and has no mother.
Mary prayed to the one God.
Mary did not pray to a baby she gave birth to and took care of.
Dont be deluded.
Wow! That should be taught in madrasas. How to be an Abdul and not dying on the run.
You do not have the Spirit, therefore you cannot understand the doctrine of the Trinity: The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.c]" The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,
“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2
@@olafliflaf
satan are from the jinn
Many christians mistook the effects of a jinn in the human body as one part of their trinity :"Holy Spirit/ghost". These can be seen including in churches.
Uncontrollable body movement, speaking in tongues, hearing voices, in a trance being posessed are effects of jinn in the human body.
Example
The Devil/Satan who deceived Adam is from the jinn.
Similar type of body reactions can be seen in many other cultural and religious occasions all around the world. This include vodoo ceremonies where spirits are wrongly invoked and prayed to.
In various idolatry and polytheist religions and practises, the jinns are wrongly taken as deities/gods. They are also referred to as spirits.
Others call them ghosts.
These are against the First commandment which is the foremost tenet of the religion of Abraham.
God is not a jinn.
God created jinns.
Jinns are created by God as humans are.
@@olafliflaf
God is only one.
God is not one group of three.
God sent messengers.
God is not a messenger.
Jesus was a messenger from a long line of messengers that includes Noah, Abraham and Moses.
Messengers are chosen from men to convey message to men.
And We have already SENT Noah and Abraham and placed in their descendants prophethood and scripture; and among them is he who is guided, but many of them are defiantly disobedient.
Then We SENT following their footsteps Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Injil (Gospel).
(Al-Quran 57: 26-27)
Then We SENT after them Moses with Our signs to Pharaoh and his establishment, but they were unjust toward them. So see how was the end of the corrupters.
And Moses said, O Pharaoh, I am a messenger from the Lord of the worlds
Obligated not to say about Allah except the truth. I have come to you with clear evidence from your Lord, so send with me the Children of Israel.
(Al-Quran 7: 103-105)
And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers.
(Al-Quran 2: 87)
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth.
(Al-Quran 5: 75)
Their messengers said to them, "We are only men like you, but Allah confers favor upon whom He wills of His servants. It has never been for us to bring you evidence except by permission of Allah . And upon Allah let the believers rely.
(Al-Quran 14: 11)
God sent Jesus.
God is not Jesus.
Allah chooses from the angels, messengers and from men.
Surely, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.
(Al-Quran 22: 75)
@@olafliflaf
(Continued)
There are angel messengers
He sends down the angels, with the inspiration of His command, upon whom He wills of His servants, "Warn that there is no ilah (deity/god) except Me; so fear Me."
(Al-Quran 16: 2)
Angel Gabriel is referred to as The Spirit.
And mention, in AlKitab (the Book), Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Spirit (Angel Gabriel), and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man.
She said, "Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah ."
He said, "I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy."
She said, "How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?"
He said, "Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, 'It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.'
(Al-Quran Translation/interpretation Chapter Mary/Maryam(19) : 16-21)
Gabriel identified himself to Mary as "the messenger of your Lord".
The story of Gabriel appearing before Mary(Maryam) to inform her about her future son (Jesus/Isa) is also mentioned in the gospels.
*Angels informing the coming of a newborn child is consistent with angels visiting Abraham and his wife informing them about their future son, Isaac and Jacob and an angel informing Zachariah about his future son, John (Yahya), both incidents mentioned in the current gospels and in the Quran.
Angel Gabriel (Jibril) is mentioned by name as the one who brought down the Quran to Prophet Muhammad:
Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Jibril (Gabriel) - it is he who has brought it (the Qur'an) down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah, confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."
Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Jibril and Mikal (Michael) - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.
(Al-Quran translation 2: 97-98)
The one who brought it down is also referred to as below:
And indeed, it (the Qur'an) is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
Has brought it down by Arruhul-amin (The Trustworthy Spirit)
(Al-Quran translation 26: 192-193)
Say, [O Muhammad], "ruhulQudus (spirit of the Holy) has brought it down from your rabb (Lord) in truth to make firm those who believe and as guidance and good tidings to the Muslims."
(Al-Quran translations 16: 102)
Ruh Al-Quddus is mentioned in the arabic Quran.
Ruh meaning spirit,
Al-Quddus is one of the names of God, meaning The Holy/ All-Holy/ All-Pure.
Angels have wings.
[All] praise is [due] to Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth, [who] made the angels messengers having wings, two or three or four. He increases in creation what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
(Al-Quran 35: 1)
Who did Jesus actually see descending that is mentioned in the gospels.
[Gabriel said], "And we [angels] descend not except by the order of your Lord. To Him belongs that before us and that behind us and what is in between. And never is your Lord forgetful -
(Al-Quran 19: 64)
God sent angels.
God is not an angel.
It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah," rather, "be rabbaniyyun, because you are teaching the Book, and you are studying it."
Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as arbaban (lords). Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims?
(Al-Quran 3: 79-80)
There are angel messengers
There are human messengers.
God is not an angel.
God is not a human.
God is only one.
God have no son.
God is not one third of three.
God is not a messenger.
God sent messengers.
Indeed, Allah is but one ilah (deity/god). Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
(Al-Quran 4: 171)
فِي الْبَدْءِ خَلَقَ اللهُ (Allah) السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضَ
According to arabic translations of the bible that you can find online, Allah (الله ) is the Creator of the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1: 1
Indeed, your rabb (Lord) is Allah, who created the heavens and earth ...
(Al-Quran translation 7: 54)
Alaha refers to God in aramaic.
Aramaic is a semitic language believed to be spoken by Jesus.
Semitic languages include hebrew and arabic and have similarities.