@@Sp3llmen imagine when they drop the Master Duel update and Skill Drain gets banned. They would be fucking with everyones mind so hard, it would be hilarious.
I hope they make it so that any banned card you recycle gives you 30 instead of the normal 10 (totally not outing myself as someone who has 3 skill drain)
The question is, did someone decide that Skil drain is the problem, or tends to be a problem, or is the game programed to just destroy one of the cards that caused the loop?
I highly doubt that they either code specific cases for all the possible interactions that cause an infinite loop or just assume that if skill drain(or some other card) is involved in one it is THE card to pop. Most likely what happens is that when the game engine starts processing the result of the interaction, it detects that a loop is going on (maybe detecting that the 'stack' of effects (not the actual chain, I mean the effects being activated in the background due to some cards being turned on and off as a result of the loop) being run is too big or some stuff is happening repeatedly) and pops one of the first effects that were activated causing the interaction. How it decides what exactly to pop, I'm not sure, at least in this case. Edit: thinking about it, assume the game 'runs' every effect in the loop at least once before popping a card. So decree activates and negates skill drain, which 'activates' jinzo, which in turn negates decree and 'activates' skill drain, thus closing the first loop if i'm not mistaken. From then on these 'activations' are being repeated again, so the game might pop the last card in the first loop to prevent that from happening. This is all guesswork tho, it makes some sense but it's not something you can exactly tell without testing more loops to see how the game behaves.
@@robinsimon4176 Well actually, you shouldnt be able to even activate Royal Decree at that point because you would be forming an infinite loop at that point. But i do think that rule actually changed. So Skill Drain is the problem because it is what makes the infinite loop happen, it keeps negating Jinzo, so i think thats why the SD is the problem here.
@@MsMiDC so skill drain negating jinzo is the problem. Not royal decree negating skill drain? Cuz skill drain and jinzo can be on field perfectly fine, activating royal decree started the look. Imo that makes decree the problem card. But what do i know
The reason you need the brain control is because it changes this from a voluntary loop to an involuntary one, which is irrelevant because the rulings changed.
i think they wanted to Brain Control the Jinzo to have Jinzo negate Skill Drain, then activate Decree under the effect of the equip spell since they own Jinzo now, then in the end phase let Jinzo's control get swapped over to the other player, making the "illegal move" be something that the game does automatically instead of a players action.
@@Honerkamp Except they didn't do it wrong. They already set up the loop they wanted. Effect Veiler would add nothing to keep the loop going. Neither would Brain Control. You're wrong and crying over nothing.
I love that Joseph references the oblivion ring situation from magic, because it's something that could technically happen in a real game and because magic doesn't use the same problem card approach that yugioh does, it just results in a draw
when MBT mentions "this is our oblivion ring situation" it's a reference to the situation shown in the video "LSV Breaks MTGO," where a player creates an infinite involuntary loop with three copies of the MtG card Oblivion Ring
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode)
I think the infinite loop they were trying to recreate wasn't done. Because change of possession needs to happen per the mind control/brain control. But yes Skill Drain is naturally a problem
Is it possible to change the order of cards to: Royal Decree -> Jinzo -> Amp -> Skill Drain And if that is possible, will it still be Skill Drain that gets destroyed or is the "problem card" defined by different means than just "if loop -> destory this card". Maybe the order here could be important.
I THINK the "problem card" that will be destroyed is still Skill Drain in each instance, because it is the last effect applied before the loop repeats; i.e. Jinzo summons; Jinzo effect applies, negate RD, apply SD, negate Jinzo, apply RD, negate SD, repeat. Every iteration of the loop ends on negating Skill Drain and reapplying Jinzo, so every loop should end by eliminating Skill Drain. Edit: Deleted "why u need Amplifier" bc Skill Drain needs Amplifier to not be negated by Jinzo so that it can negate Jinzo, so that Royal Decree can negate Skill Drain. I get it now.
@@Terrantular You need the Amplifier for the loop because without it, both traps will be negated by Jinzo once summoned if you have both decree and skill drain already active.
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode) So if you had had Royal Decree sitting even longer it should be the one popped, or if you played Jinzo first, Jinzo, or maybe Amp(which would then eat Jinzo on effect resolution)
There's an infinite loop with cyberblader and falling down so if your opponent 2 archfiends and you control monster if your opponent activates falling down and takes your monster it would be illegal to summon cyber Blader since her third effect will ne gate the falling down which will ause an infinite Loop because you would constantly be switching control of that monster
@DistantCoder: You forgot about the new rules, and infinite loop with no end will no longer lock the player from playing a card, because this happen in a tournement where the opponent was completly lock out of playing every card because of an infinite loop, and after that tournament they did an emergency rules change. I heard that from other people since I don't play in real life tournament, so i don't know if in Master duel if it pop the correct problematic card?
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode)
@@syrelian I'm compareing with the real world equivelent, I remember Dinstant coder said before Master duel was even release that they change the rules in the real yugioh TCG that your now allowed to activated a card manuelly that would cause an infinite loop, and it would get rid of the problematic card, and it was in dueling book, maybe not official maybe not real life official tournament yet.
Im 95% sure konami secretly watches either all the TH-cam videos regarding someone either know an exploit OR the tons of case from experiences YGO players had from playing YCS and others, TH-camrs i mean are like from distantcoder, duelogs, farfa and others that "maybe!!' the loops that usually happen because of the ruling is ambiguous for Infinite loops is actually fixed in MD, i was surprised that they did fixed it on the classic case like this
How is this breaking the game? The game determined Skill Drain is the problem card so it destroyed it and ended the loop. Seems fine to me. This is consistent with the pole position ruling. We just didn't know what cards are the problem cards for every situation. Now we know.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
"They determined that the problem card in this situation is Skill Drain."
That's true in more ways than one.
"goes to 3" lmao
@@Sp3llmen imagine when they drop the Master Duel update and Skill Drain gets banned. They would be fucking with everyones mind so hard, it would be hilarious.
@@FranzNF Good ending
@@FranzNF Every YuGiOh game collectively is a concurrent social experiment in gaslighting gamers.
I hope they make it so that any banned card you recycle gives you 30 instead of the normal 10 (totally not outing myself as someone who has 3 skill drain)
The skill is no longer drained, good ending achieved
Eldlich degens crying rn
skills = gained 😀👍
when farfa said "galactic god" i started crying
His legacy will not be forgotten.
This needs to be a full series of every single infinite loop possible
It is highly interesting seeing how different games handle the coding of the loops!
Dawnstar be dammed
I R E A L L Y wanna see what "the cactus fighter one" ends as
"Destroyed by game rules"
Konami : determines skill drain as the problem card
Also Konami : puts skill drain to 3 in tcg
This is my favorite series now. I wanna see more of distant & co testing MD
"The problem card is Skill Drain" you could say that in a lot of situations...
The question is, did someone decide that Skil drain is the problem, or tends to be a problem, or is the game programed to just destroy one of the cards that caused the loop?
In Pole position stuff, they destroy pole position.
So i suppose it is the actual issue.
I highly doubt that they either code specific cases for all the possible interactions that cause an infinite loop or just assume that if skill drain(or some other card) is involved in one it is THE card to pop.
Most likely what happens is that when the game engine starts processing the result of the interaction, it detects that a loop is going on (maybe detecting that the 'stack' of effects (not the actual chain, I mean the effects being activated in the background due to some cards being turned on and off as a result of the loop) being run is too big or some stuff is happening repeatedly) and pops one of the first effects that were activated causing the interaction. How it decides what exactly to pop, I'm not sure, at least in this case.
Edit: thinking about it, assume the game 'runs' every effect in the loop at least once before popping a card. So decree activates and negates skill drain, which 'activates' jinzo, which in turn negates decree and 'activates' skill drain, thus closing the first loop if i'm not mistaken. From then on these 'activations' are being repeated again, so the game might pop the last card in the first loop to prevent that from happening.
This is all guesswork tho, it makes some sense but it's not something you can exactly tell without testing more loops to see how the game behaves.
@@warcriminalyes but how is skill drain more of "the problem" than royal decree in this situation?
@@robinsimon4176 Well actually, you shouldnt be able to even activate Royal Decree at that point because you would be forming an infinite loop at that point. But i do think that rule actually changed. So Skill Drain is the problem because it is what makes the infinite loop happen, it keeps negating Jinzo, so i think thats why the SD is the problem here.
@@MsMiDC so skill drain negating jinzo is the problem. Not royal decree negating skill drain? Cuz skill drain and jinzo can be on field perfectly fine, activating royal decree started the look. Imo that makes decree the problem card. But what do i know
That pop.. that illigle pop. Server had to live through infinite loop and finally decided to take a drastic measure to do that
The reason you need the brain control is because it changes this from a voluntary loop to an involuntary one, which is irrelevant because the rulings changed.
the problem card is always skill drain even when there's no loop involved
Never thought I would hear “Galactic God”‘s name again. He will be missed :(
I mean it makes sense to pick Skill Drain as the problem here because activating another shouldn't re-enter the loop since Jinzo hit the board first.
MBT popping off never gets old
Can't wait for the one with Cactus Fighter
I think the cactus fighter one wouldn't do much in MD because you'd have to manually declare attacks and eventually run out of time.
Loops that lead to game end aren't stopped from what I recall.
This was soo cool please show the cactus fighter stuff too!
i think they wanted to Brain Control the Jinzo to have Jinzo negate Skill Drain, then activate Decree under the effect of the equip spell since they own Jinzo now, then in the end phase let Jinzo's control get swapped over to the other player, making the "illegal move" be something that the game does automatically instead of a players action.
Yeah, they did it wrong. What a waste of time.
@@Pr1est0fDoom Snatch Steal is banned in Master Duel, you dingus.
@@Pr1est0fDoom They may even have been supposed to negate Jinzo with Veiler to to it properly.
@@MansMan42069 They talked about it in the video and used a substitute card instead. Doesn't change the fact they did it wrong
@@Honerkamp Except they didn't do it wrong. They already set up the loop they wanted. Effect Veiler would add nothing to keep the loop going. Neither would Brain Control.
You're wrong and crying over nothing.
I remember watching this live, still waiting for the cactus loop
do u remember the date of that stream?
Cant wait to see more of these unproved rulings
I love that Joseph references the oblivion ring situation from magic, because it's something that could technically happen in a real game and because magic doesn't use the same problem card approach that yugioh does, it just results in a draw
Skill drain is the problem card even outside this loop xD
He needs to just post a full stream highlight of all the testing as these are amusing.
when MBT mentions "this is our oblivion ring situation" it's a reference to the situation shown in the video "LSV Breaks MTGO," where a player creates an infinite involuntary loop with three copies of the MtG card Oblivion Ring
Looking forward to more ruling videos like this.
this is amazing, please post the cactus one as well
Bruh!!! Make this a series!!! I'm so hooked
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode)
Auto Loop:
Master Duel: You can’t do that.
What happened in the log window ? Could be interesting to see skill drain nuking itself xD
Im interested in that too!
its simple, konami made royal decree an mst in that situation lol
Please do more these that was interesting
I would love to see HysteriA from Hearthstone to be a part of this
Hold on Coder you can't leave us like this what is the Cactus Fighter loop
The deck change thing is interesting. Teppen you pick three decks and if you win you have to switch decks.
ok now i wanna see the cactus fighter one you mentioned at the end
Ohh shitt swagkage i was not expecting him to be here lol
I really want to see him do a rulings type thing on master duel to see if what judges say is actually correct like how he did against ygopro
"they determine skill drain is the problem card"
*Skill drain at 3*
I think the problem card is Amplifier but that would destroy Jinzo so they go with the second problem card in Skill Drain.
I need to see that cactus loop
It's good to see Swagkage in a yugioh video even if he's not physically in the video
The dire beast or whatever the name of the xyz on top looks so fitting
I think the infinite loop they were trying to recreate wasn't done. Because change of possession needs to happen per the mind control/brain control. But yes Skill Drain is naturally a problem
Hearing Swagkage unexpectedly cheered me up
well now i wanna see the cactus fighter loop
And still here we are with skill drain at 3
Skip to 13:30 to avoid the constant repeating of how the loop happens
Very cool. I was hoping to see more then the video abruptly ended on me😔
Was waiting for this video as soon as MD dropped
This is literally crazy af
I love this kind of content more than the meta test hand.
Imma need more of this
Is it possible to change the order of cards to: Royal Decree -> Jinzo -> Amp -> Skill Drain
And if that is possible, will it still be Skill Drain that gets destroyed or is the "problem card" defined by different means than just "if loop -> destory this card".
Maybe the order here could be important.
I THINK the "problem card" that will be destroyed is still Skill Drain in each instance, because it is the last effect applied before the loop repeats; i.e. Jinzo summons; Jinzo effect applies, negate RD, apply SD, negate Jinzo, apply RD, negate SD, repeat.
Every iteration of the loop ends on negating Skill Drain and reapplying Jinzo, so every loop should end by eliminating Skill Drain.
Edit: Deleted "why u need Amplifier" bc Skill Drain needs Amplifier to not be negated by Jinzo so that it can negate Jinzo, so that Royal Decree can negate Skill Drain. I get it now.
@@Terrantular You need the Amplifier for the loop because without it, both traps will be negated by Jinzo once summoned if you have both decree and skill drain already active.
@@chemicalchocobo oof yeah, clearly don't take my word, lol. Definitely need Amplifier.
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode)
So if you had had Royal Decree sitting even longer it should be the one popped, or if you played Jinzo first, Jinzo, or maybe Amp(which would then eat Jinzo on effect resolution)
Cyber Phoenix snatch steel and an enemy machine monster is an even simpler one. I actually used it to break YGOPro completely by accident in ladder!
TH-cam sends me in the past where these loops just stops After the 16th card activates.. this was fun (Skill Drain was the 17th technically)
Even Master Duel knows Skill Drain is ilegal. Accidentally based.
Throwback to one of the goats, galactic god. Pour some out to the OG
I need that cactus fighter test clip now
When the space typhoon is royal
that cliffhanger though 😏
more of this please. dear god
Testing vids...love it!
This is the first ruling made by master duel
Yu-Gi-Oh!: when u mess up the combo and find whole new one LULW
Probably should have used Dark Designator to help find stuff.
defo want more of this content please
Lol, good to hear Swag in the background.
This was a banger video holy moly
There's an infinite loop with cyberblader and falling down so if your opponent 2 archfiends and you control monster if your opponent activates falling down and takes your monster it would be illegal to summon cyber Blader since her third effect will ne gate the falling down which will ause an infinite Loop because you would constantly be switching control of that monster
Coder, aren't you forgetting something...
*POLE POSITION*
@DistantCoder: You forgot about the new rules, and infinite loop with no end will no longer lock the player from playing a card, because this happen in a tournement where the opponent was completly lock out of playing every card because of an infinite loop, and after that tournament they did an emergency rules change. I heard that from other people since I don't play in real life tournament, so i don't know if in Master duel if it pop the correct problematic card?
This resolution to the loop isn't new, this is how games as old as Spirit Caller(Spirit Caller has a whole ruling page on infinite loop gamestates, I imagine Nightmare Troub and maybe even the GBA games also did this though) have responded to gamestates like this, since the game is not great at pre-emptively recognizing illegal loop generating states, it just instantly pops the OLDEST card related to the loop behavior(Skill Drain is the oldest because it was sitting face-down for a while, otherwise Jinzo would explode)
@@syrelian I'm compareing with the real world equivelent, I remember Dinstant coder said before Master duel was even release that they change the rules in the real yugioh TCG that your now allowed to activated a card manuelly that would cause an infinite loop, and it would get rid of the problematic card, and it was in dueling book, maybe not official maybe not real life official tournament yet.
The precedence has been set
Im 95% sure konami secretly watches either all the TH-cam videos regarding someone either know an exploit OR the tons of case from experiences YGO players had from playing YCS and others, TH-camrs i mean are like from distantcoder, duelogs, farfa and others that "maybe!!' the loops that usually happen because of the ruling is ambiguous for Infinite loops is actually fixed in MD, i was surprised that they did fixed it on the classic case like this
For science.
Did I just hear swagkage ?
Instead of mst negates it is now royal decree pops lol!
the skill is no longer drained because the decree is royal
Waited long for this one lol
Human IQ - 50-300
Konami bot IQ - 1000 - infinity
My uncle beats me
my auntie beats me,
my nephew beats me
my teacher beats me.
I feel safe with DistantCoder though because he can't beat anyone.
and they never did the Cactus Fighter loop
they said when in doubt pop skill drain
Yooo we want the second part
We need it.
Please sir.
Did they ever make a video for Cactus Fighter?
Heroic gift would’ve been useful for this.
I had a royal rare Gem Knight Master Diamond and i was looking at it and went to make a second and accidentally dismantled it. F
wait i wanna see the cactus loop
Guys there are more infinite Loops that they can do
Awesome sauce
I still would like to see the brain con set up though
With the veller
how does the morphing jar #2 infinite loop work in MD? Does it work or does a card get destroyed?
GalacticGod, based
These combos are almost as wacky as mine
How is this breaking the game? The game determined Skill Drain is the problem card so it destroyed it and ended the loop. Seems fine to me. This is consistent with the pole position ruling. We just didn't know what cards are the problem cards for every situation. Now we know.
Triggerering it IS breaking it
Skill drain is always a problem not only in this situation
Did we break it? It prevented the loop.
Honestly agree with konami skill drain is kinda the crux for the entire infinite loop
God. I miss GlacticGod