Thank you Ewan for producing this fantastic video. As you can see from your results and findings the Peltier mod as done a fantastic job on the ZWO. I totally agree that the noise levels are improved. But a cheap and simple mod can change a lot of things particularly if you're a limited budget. I'm so pleased that there are some people out like yourself who gone to undertake the project and you now seen the true light of how effective this mod works. I do noticed that you have fitted a bigger Peltier and cooling fan mounted on a larger Aluminium plate, which the increased surface area will gain more cooling to the camera's body, which will be more effective than my original design. Thank you Ewan for your support to A4B and keep going on making these videos. This kind of work will back-up the negativity with some viewers who think that this mod does not work, and help to build more confidence on some viewers who want to do this project and save a lot money in the process. Please everyone take advantage of this and enjoy Astronomy!!! If you are interested making this project please watch on: th-cam.com/video/rba94dKfsjs/w-d-xo.html
Thank you, Ewan! I completed building my cooler. One note to others doing this. When I first finished the unit, the thermostat would only work for a second or two, then cut out and go blank, then come back on, only to recycle like this repeatedly. I used the same peltier and fan as Ewan, but my TES1-12704 peltier was rated at 4amp, not 3.3. When I switched my power source from 12v 2amp to 12v 3amp, the problem disappeared and everything is running beautifully! Also note: Because of the increase in amps, I needed to change the resistor for the fan from 5.8 to 3.8. Hope this all helps someone!
Hi, thanks for the video. A question about condensation. How to you prevent it from getting on/inside the camera? Every consider putting a SilcaGel bag inside the OTA near the camera, and then remove it once the camera has gotten to temp?
Very interesting! I'm studying a cooler for my ASI462mm. What temperature controller do you use ? Could you send the reference? A thing that bother me in your design is that the big aluminum plate sticked to the camera act as a heatsink and get hotter from the ambiant air so you may loose a lot of power. It would benefit an isolation to keep the whole surface cool.
Hi Ewan, great video and I’m thinking of doing the mod myself. Is the fan really necessary as unlike the factory cooled cameras with an enclosed cooling system, the heat sink is in the open air and quite large. It seems to me that there should be enough air circulation to dissipate the heat naturally. Just wandering if you’ve tried it without the fan. The IR filter tip is great by the way and I’ve already modified mine. Thanks.
Hey Ewan, Great job describing your process. I however have had a process to cool my ZWO with some changes that does not help cooling I fear. Differences are I use a copper plate & large fan/heatsink like yours but the peltier is a CP4033 30x30mm one. I only get a drop of 7degrees ambient. Could that be that 12706 is needed. I was trying to emulate Martin's instruction. It uses 4 amps too. Thanks.
Interesting question, I could 3D print some piping into the (DSLR)camera to let some liquid nitrogen cool the sensor possibly. I was going to get a air tight bag with some incandescent to draw all the moisture out first and then test with telescope and put heater at the T-ring to prevent moisture from entering the sensor from telescope. If the liquid nitrogen only flows on the back of cmos it may only cool off the sensor and not effect rest of camera too much. I have taken a heat transfer class and I could calculate the flow needed to cool the sensor(and wattage of sensor) just enough I think. Do you think that is possible? I wonder how cold you could get the CMOS censor?
maybe a false good idea. Dark current noise generally stall at -15/-20°c so it's useless to go down this point. Then the rapid temperature drop occured by the liquid nitrogen may break the sensor by thermal shock.
Hi Ewan, sorry to pester. I am now close to completing my DSLR cooling mod, just waiting for a replacement TEC 12706 plate. Have you managed to do the video explaining all of the settings and wiring yet? Thanks Julian
Nicely done. Would be trying it soon. The one thing which I am not sure is replacing the IR glass with some random glass. Your optical quality didn't suffer?
Hi Jerry. The one you see in the video came from eBay. There are various sellers from around the world and here's a link to one (not the person I bought from but they've run out of stock) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-20A-Digital-LED-Thermostat-Relay-Temperature-Controller-w-Sensor-/291980490053?hash=item43fb64b545:g:CzwAAOSwux5YXT9R
Thanks Ewan, I am going to use it to control a dew controller so you can set the temp you want to maintain and forget it. My biggest problem is finding an NTC sensor with long enough leads as I want to mount the controller on the tripod and not the OTA.
The sensor on the control unit is just two wires and a small plug. Have a look about 4 minutes in to the video and you'll see that all I did was cut the plug end off with about an inch of wire left on it then spliced it in to the 6 core wire leading from the controller to the business end of the cooler. For your use, all you'd need is a 4 core wire so that you've got the 2 for the temperature and the +/- for the dew strip. Something like this: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PVC-4-CORE-13-15-AMP-ROUND-BLACK-MAINS-ELECTRICAL-CABLE-FLEX-WIRE-BY-THE-METER-/351471489667?hash=item51d5555283:g:GSQAAOSwrklU9ga7
Hi Ewan. How reliable are these Tec Peltier coolers.? First one I received didn't do anything and now the replacement has failed also. On initial connection to 12V supply both side got red hot so disconnected to allow to cool down. Now this one doesn't work either. Are these very sensitive in connecting up? What should I be doing to connect them?
It sounds like you are overpowering the Peltier with too much current. Check their input amperage rating. You should be supplying no more than that rating as any more and you will overload the wires If you apply too many amps the small wires will heat up and burn up. Kind of like trying to connect a garden hose to a fire hydrant, too much pressure.
I recently built a cooler unit based on Martin Pyott design but with some of my own modification. In a bench trial I got the temperature of the senor down to -16C but when I tried to image M57 a couple of nights ago I hit a problem with condensation on the IR filter and focal reducer lens making focusing impossible. Doing a bit of research I found out that the high end ZWO cameras that have a built in cooler also have a polyimide heater on the front face of the camera to eliminate dew. I've sent off for 2x 10W heaters, on a very slow boat from China, and hope to fit one/two within the tube of the eyepiece adapter. Did you encountered any problems with condensation?
yes. Older cameras has descicant tablet inside. Which protect the inside electronics and prevent from dew on the inside. Still, dew can appear on the front side of the glass...
Hi Ewan I am currently doing Martin PYOTT's cooling mod for the DSLR with some tweaks that you suggested as well. I have the same temp control unit as you do with your ZWO mod. I note that in your wiring that you linked the positive connection terminal of the switch bock to the third connection. I have done the same but note on the instructions that come with the unit that they suggest linking the negative connection terminal with the third connection. What is the difference would you know? Thanks Julian
Julian Matthews it shouldn't make any difference, but I was always taught to build the switch in to the positive wire so just stick to it by habit. Martin uses the positive switch too
Julian Matthews thanks Ewan. Yes you both went positive it was just the Chinese instructions that went negative???? I will stick to positive thanks. Just waiting for a replacement Tec cooler plate as the one I ordered was duff!
Hello Ewan I have a question for you I really want to purchase this camera but of course you will need an auto guider for your telescope. What type of auto guider do you recommend for an older Schmitz Cassagrainan Celestron 8 inch telescope. Of course I am an amateur astronomer so it can't brake the bank. Any ideas? If you need a picture of my telescope just let me know. I will get you one.
Hi Megan. I've heard mixed opinions about guiding with SCT scopes. One of my friends uses an off axis guider with his 11", but the problem there is that the guide camera has to be almost as sensitive as the imaging camera to be able to see any stars!!! My Ritchey Chretien scope is a similar focal length to your SCT and I use a 60mm Finder/Guider that I purchased from 365 Astronomy. It fits in the finder quick release bracket (it comes with a little dovetail that sits nicely in there) and then all you need is a second hand QHY5 or ZWO ASI 120 (preferably mono in both cases and don't spend out more on the USB3 version of the ZWO - USB2 is easily good enough for guiding). The free program PHD2 (stands for "Point Here Dummy") is brilliant for guiding and it's really easy to set up. If you need any advice or help, please feel free to message me.
Thank you! I will have to check that website out and look at that equipment. And thanks for the recommendation I do have one other question though. My mount is not computerized therefore I don't have an auto guider port any recommendations for a mount I can buy with auto guider that will work with my 8 inch celestron it is an older celestron so I don't have a dove tail mount so if you could keep that in mind or find away around that it would be a great help! Thank you Ewan your awesome
Hi Megan The recommendation is always to make sure that the carrying capacity of the mount is at least twice the weight of your scope if you want to us it for imaging. I think your scope weighs around 6Kg, so you need a mount that can carry 12Kg at least. That means the Celestron AVX or Skywatcher HEQ5 (not the EQ5). These come up second hand quite often, so keep an eye out with your local astronomy group and on www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php. There's also a Facebook group you can join for 2nd hand astro gear: facebook.com/groups/240391446118062/?ref=bookmarks and a really good imaging group where you can get hints and tips: facebook.com/groups/a4big/ If you can let me know your approximate location, I can point you in the direction of a decent astronomy club as they often have kit you can borrow before you go out to buy your own.
HI Ewan Just further to my comment below How do you operate and set the temperature to cool this unit to. The Chinese instructions are exactly that!! Thanks
Julian Matthews - hi there. I'm just in the process of making a couple of coolers, so I'll pop up a video explaining all the settings and wiring for you. Gimme a couple of days!!
Hi, Ewan. How would you rate the effectiveness of your ‘home brew’ peltier mod against a factory one, is there a huge difference between the temperatures achieved? Thanks for the great videos, Kev.
Hi Kev. There's no comparison between the home brew version and the factory built in cooler - the built in one is far more effective and efficient for deep sky imaging. By building the cooler directly on to the camera chip, ZWO get cooling of around 40 degrees centigrade below ambient. The home brew will drop the sensor temperature to around 10 degrees below ambient (the sensors run at around 5 degrees above ambient so you're getting a total drop of around 15 degrees). I now own a ZWO ASI 1600MC Cool and I image at -10 degrees centigrade (that's the actual sensor temp!) as the camera can do that regardless of the time of year. It means I have a master set of darks for 30 seconds up to 10 minutes that I replace every 6 months or so (because I can rather than because I need to) and can spend more time imaging. I don't feel the built in cooler adds anything to planetary imaging that the home brew version, so if you're only looking to reduce noise on video exposures it's ideal. For deep sky, always go for the built in cooler if you can afford it. Hope this helps!!!
Ewan, thanks for the in-depth and informative reply, this is what I expected and it makes perfect sense. I didn't know they cooled the chip directly though. Cheers! Kev
When you watch this video between 18:30 and 24:30 th-cam.com/video/3RH93UvP358/w-d-xo.html you wonder what you pay money for. Benefit is very problematic especially when you have high end sensor. BTW . Every 5 degrees reduce dark current by half or so.
hola.. eso no funciona-- me cnase de hacer experimentos con peltiers.. pero no andan.. junta humedad. y no va ese enfriado directo al sensor.. va a la carcasa de aluminio.. y decidi comprar directamente la ZWO 1600 MONOCROMA con la rueda de filtros y los filtros de banda estrecha. eso es lo que verdaderamente si funciona.. LA CAMARA A MENOS 40 grados. SALUDOS
Thank you Ewan for producing this fantastic video. As you can see from your results and findings the Peltier mod as done a fantastic job on the ZWO. I totally agree that the noise levels are improved. But a cheap and simple mod can change a lot of things particularly if you're a limited budget. I'm so pleased that there are some people out like yourself who gone to undertake the project and you now seen the true light of how effective this mod works. I do noticed that you have fitted a bigger Peltier and cooling fan mounted on a larger Aluminium plate, which the increased surface area will gain more cooling to the camera's body, which will be more effective than my original design. Thank you Ewan for your support to A4B and keep going on making these videos. This kind of work will back-up the negativity with some viewers who think that this mod does not work, and help to build more confidence on some viewers who want to do this project and save a lot money in the process. Please everyone take advantage of this and enjoy Astronomy!!! If you are interested making this project please watch on: th-cam.com/video/rba94dKfsjs/w-d-xo.html
Thank you, Ewan! I completed building my cooler. One note to others doing this. When I first finished the unit, the thermostat would only work for a second or two, then cut out and go blank, then come back on, only to recycle like this repeatedly. I used the same peltier and fan as Ewan, but my TES1-12704 peltier was rated at 4amp, not 3.3. When I switched my power source from 12v 2amp to 12v 3amp, the problem disappeared and everything is running beautifully! Also note: Because of the increase in amps, I needed to change the resistor for the fan from 5.8 to 3.8. Hope this all helps someone!
Hi, thanks for the video. A question about condensation. How to you prevent it from getting on/inside the camera? Every consider putting a SilcaGel bag inside the OTA near the camera, and then remove it once the camera has gotten to temp?
dont see much issues with vibrations from fan going through to the images?
That's what I was wondering too. The fan of ZWO cooled cameras have a much smaller and extremely well balanced fans to avoid vibrations.
How is working so far?
Very interesting! I'm studying a cooler for my ASI462mm.
What temperature controller do you use ? Could you send the reference?
A thing that bother me in your design is that the big aluminum plate sticked to the camera act as a heatsink and get hotter from the ambiant air so you may loose a lot of power. It would benefit an isolation to keep the whole surface cool.
Hi Ewan, great video and I’m thinking of doing the mod myself. Is the fan really necessary as unlike the factory cooled cameras with an enclosed cooling system, the heat sink is in the open air and quite large. It seems to me that there should be enough air circulation to dissipate the heat naturally. Just wandering if you’ve tried it without the fan. The IR filter tip is great by the way and I’ve already modified mine. Thanks.
Hey Ewan, Great job describing your process. I however have had a process to cool my ZWO with some changes that does not help cooling I fear. Differences are I use a copper plate & large fan/heatsink like yours but the peltier is a CP4033 30x30mm one. I only get a drop of 7degrees ambient. Could that be that 12706 is needed. I was trying to emulate Martin's instruction. It uses 4 amps too. Thanks.
Wow! It's great! Thank you!
Hi.
Is this cooler universal for ZWO cameras, i mean would this cooler suit the ASI358 camera?
Interesting question, I could 3D print some piping into the (DSLR)camera to let some liquid nitrogen cool the sensor possibly. I was going to get a air tight bag with some incandescent to draw all the moisture out first and then test with telescope and put heater at the T-ring to prevent moisture from entering the sensor from telescope. If the liquid nitrogen only flows on the back of cmos it may only cool off the sensor and not effect rest of camera too much. I have taken a heat transfer class and I could calculate the flow needed to cool the sensor(and wattage of sensor) just enough I think. Do you think that is possible? I wonder how cold you could get the CMOS censor?
maybe a false good idea. Dark current noise generally stall at -15/-20°c so it's useless to go down this point.
Then the rapid temperature drop occured by the liquid nitrogen may break the sensor by thermal shock.
Hi Ewan, sorry to pester.
I am now close to completing my DSLR cooling mod, just waiting for a replacement TEC 12706 plate.
Have you managed to do the video explaining all of the settings and wiring yet?
Thanks
Julian
Hi Julian. I'm 90% of the way there but typically not at home until Friday. Can you wait for the weekend?
No worries Ewan I can wait for the video
Hi Julian. Here's the vid!!! At long last!!!! th-cam.com/video/gi2N1SSuVh0/w-d-xo.html
Nicely done. Would be trying it soon. The one thing which I am not sure is replacing the IR glass with some random glass. Your optical quality didn't suffer?
Hi Ewan - Great video, thank you - was wondering if you could share details on where to get the little temperature control unit.
Hi Jerry. The one you see in the video came from eBay. There are various sellers from around the world and here's a link to one (not the person I bought from but they've run out of stock)
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-20A-Digital-LED-Thermostat-Relay-Temperature-Controller-w-Sensor-/291980490053?hash=item43fb64b545:g:CzwAAOSwux5YXT9R
Thanks Ewan, I am going to use it to control a dew controller so you can set the temp you want to maintain and forget it. My biggest problem is finding an NTC sensor with long enough leads as I want to mount the controller on the tripod and not the OTA.
The sensor on the control unit is just two wires and a small plug. Have a look about 4 minutes in to the video and you'll see that all I did was cut the plug end off with about an inch of wire left on it then spliced it in to the 6 core wire leading from the controller to the business end of the cooler. For your use, all you'd need is a 4 core wire so that you've got the 2 for the temperature and the +/- for the dew strip. Something like this:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PVC-4-CORE-13-15-AMP-ROUND-BLACK-MAINS-ELECTRICAL-CABLE-FLEX-WIRE-BY-THE-METER-/351471489667?hash=item51d5555283:g:GSQAAOSwrklU9ga7
Thanks - Perfect, I was worried that the lead length had to match the attached sensor so this will be much easier and a cleaner look! - Thanks Again
Hi Ewan. How reliable are these Tec Peltier coolers.?
First one I received didn't do anything and now the replacement has failed also. On initial connection to 12V supply both side got red hot so disconnected to allow to cool down. Now this one doesn't work either.
Are these very sensitive in connecting up? What should I be doing to connect them?
It sounds like you are overpowering the Peltier with too much current. Check their input amperage rating. You should be supplying no more than that rating as any more and you will overload the wires If you apply too many amps the small wires will heat up and burn up. Kind of like trying to connect a garden hose to a fire hydrant, too much pressure.
I recently built a cooler unit based on Martin Pyott design but with some of my own modification. In a bench trial I got the temperature of the senor down to -16C but when I tried to image M57 a couple of nights ago I hit a problem with condensation on the IR filter and focal reducer lens making focusing impossible. Doing a bit of research I found out that the high end ZWO cameras that have a built in cooler also have a polyimide heater on the front face of the camera to eliminate dew. I've sent off for 2x 10W heaters, on a very slow boat from China, and hope to fit one/two within the tube of the eyepiece adapter. Did you encountered any problems with condensation?
yes. Older cameras has descicant tablet inside. Which protect the inside electronics and prevent from dew on the inside. Still, dew can appear on the front side of the glass...
Hi Ewan
I am currently doing Martin PYOTT's cooling mod for the DSLR with some tweaks that you suggested as well.
I have the same temp control unit as you do with your ZWO mod.
I note that in your wiring that you linked the positive connection terminal of the switch bock to the third connection.
I have done the same but note on the instructions that come with the unit that they suggest linking the negative connection terminal with the third connection.
What is the difference would you know?
Thanks
Julian
Julian Matthews it shouldn't make any difference, but I was always taught to build the switch in to the positive wire so just stick to it by habit. Martin uses the positive switch too
Julian Matthews thanks Ewan. Yes you both went positive it was just the Chinese instructions that went negative????
I will stick to positive thanks. Just waiting for a replacement Tec cooler plate as the one I ordered was duff!
How did you remove the existing filter and fit the watch glass looks a perfect fit. ?
Hello Ewan I have a question for you I really want to purchase this camera but of course you will need an auto guider for your telescope.
What type of auto guider do you recommend for an older Schmitz Cassagrainan Celestron 8 inch telescope. Of course I am an amateur astronomer so it can't brake the bank. Any ideas? If you need a picture of my telescope just let me know. I will get you one.
Hi Megan.
I've heard mixed opinions about guiding with SCT scopes. One of my friends uses an off axis guider with his 11", but the problem there is that the guide camera has to be almost as sensitive as the imaging camera to be able to see any stars!!!
My Ritchey Chretien scope is a similar focal length to your SCT and I use a 60mm Finder/Guider that I purchased from 365 Astronomy. It fits in the finder quick release bracket (it comes with a little dovetail that sits nicely in there) and then all you need is a second hand QHY5 or ZWO ASI 120 (preferably mono in both cases and don't spend out more on the USB3 version of the ZWO - USB2 is easily good enough for guiding). The free program PHD2 (stands for "Point Here Dummy") is brilliant for guiding and it's really easy to set up.
If you need any advice or help, please feel free to message me.
Thank you! I will have to check that website out and look at that equipment. And thanks for the recommendation I do have one other question though. My mount is not computerized therefore I don't have an auto guider port any recommendations for a mount I can buy with auto guider that will work with my 8 inch celestron it is an older celestron so I don't have a dove tail mount so if you could keep that in mind or find away around that it would be a great help! Thank you Ewan your awesome
Hi Megan
The recommendation is always to make sure that the carrying capacity of the mount is at least twice the weight of your scope if you want to us it for imaging. I think your scope weighs around 6Kg, so you need a mount that can carry 12Kg at least. That means the Celestron AVX or Skywatcher HEQ5 (not the EQ5). These come up second hand quite often, so keep an eye out with your local astronomy group and on www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php. There's also a Facebook group you can join for 2nd hand astro gear: facebook.com/groups/240391446118062/?ref=bookmarks and a really good imaging group where you can get hints and tips: facebook.com/groups/a4big/ If you can let me know your approximate location, I can point you in the direction of a decent astronomy club as they often have kit you can borrow before you go out to buy your own.
HI Ewan
Just further to my comment below
How do you operate and set the temperature to cool this unit to. The Chinese instructions are exactly that!!
Thanks
Julian Matthews - hi there. I'm just in the process of making a couple of coolers, so I'll pop up a video explaining all the settings and wiring for you. Gimme a couple of days!!
Julian Matthews Fab thank you I will keep an eye out
I wonder what was your minimum temperature and the environmental temperature at this point. Also how long did it take.
Thank you.
Cheers!
Which Chip is best IMX224C or IMX178C for Moon, sun, planets and bright DSO's ?
Does the fan blow into the heatsink or up away from it?
Samuel Horton - hi there. The fan pulls air up through the heat sink and away from there. Hope that helps!!
Yes, it does. Thanks!
Fantastic mod. What is the address of your blog?
Where did you get the small wiring bosses that you used to connect the wires?
kits for liquid cooling microprocessors
Hi, Ewan. How would you rate the effectiveness of your ‘home brew’ peltier mod against a factory one, is there a huge difference between the temperatures achieved? Thanks for the great videos, Kev.
Hi Kev. There's no comparison between the home brew version and the factory built in cooler - the built in one is far more effective and efficient for deep sky imaging. By building the cooler directly on to the camera chip, ZWO get cooling of around 40 degrees centigrade below ambient. The home brew will drop the sensor temperature to around 10 degrees below ambient (the sensors run at around 5 degrees above ambient so you're getting a total drop of around 15 degrees). I now own a ZWO ASI 1600MC Cool and I image at -10 degrees centigrade (that's the actual sensor temp!) as the camera can do that regardless of the time of year. It means I have a master set of darks for 30 seconds up to 10 minutes that I replace every 6 months or so (because I can rather than because I need to) and can spend more time imaging. I don't feel the built in cooler adds anything to planetary imaging that the home brew version, so if you're only looking to reduce noise on video exposures it's ideal. For deep sky, always go for the built in cooler if you can afford it. Hope this helps!!!
Ewan, thanks for the in-depth and informative reply, this is what I expected and it makes perfect sense. I didn't know they cooled the chip directly though. Cheers! Kev
When you watch this video between 18:30 and 24:30 th-cam.com/video/3RH93UvP358/w-d-xo.html you wonder what you pay money for. Benefit is very problematic especially when you have high end sensor. BTW . Every 5 degrees reduce dark current by half or so.
I'm still here. What do?
Not sure what you mean......
hola.. eso no funciona-- me cnase de hacer experimentos con peltiers.. pero no andan.. junta humedad. y no va ese enfriado directo al sensor.. va a la carcasa de aluminio.. y decidi comprar directamente la ZWO 1600 MONOCROMA con la rueda de filtros y los filtros de banda estrecha. eso es lo que verdaderamente si funciona.. LA CAMARA A MENOS 40 grados. SALUDOS
Does the cooling causing condensation on the chip?