I love your helper. I had one for 14 years that was involved in every project I did, he just had to be with me when I was working on my hobbies. Alas, time took him away and I miss the heck out of him. I like the way you explained the "real world" effects of your experiment. Too many people would do the same experiment and claim it cooled the whole room by 20 degrees. Great job.
I remember being fascinated with these after getting my first mini fridge. Really cool physics but they drew a ton of power and were easily heat saturated. At best they had a temperature gradient between the sides of 40 degrees. Hopefully the technology has progressed but compressor systems are simply more efficient
Heating or cooling anything aren't cheap, I respect this guy's honesty (at 12:59 mark). One can play around this all you want, but if you need real cooling, get a proper air conditioner.
This would definitely save hours, efforts and power for anyone thinking of making ab air conditioner out of peltier modules. Its enticing, but impractical. Thanks for sharing!
I'm not so sure that this can be deemed impractical yet. There are many ways to improve this. And he didn't do it at the same power scale as a typical window AC unit. I'd like to see this done with 900w-1,000w worth of peltier modules, intake from the inside instead of from the outside, the power supply outside, and possibly more insulation.
@@bubbleboy821Se vai usar tanta potência assim 900w a 1000w é praticamente o consumo de um ar condicionado, até mais na verdade, um ar condicionado split é por volta de 750 a 900w
10:45 Sorin: I turn the PC and lights off because I don't want a heat source in this room Also Sorin: switches on a 200 W power supply to "cool his room" 🤪😂
If his power supply is extremely efficient, the heat generated would be nearly negligible, it would be better than a 12v wall socket adapter or other common power supplies.
@@shamancredible8632 Yes, that's generally their peak output and a typical heater is 1500watts or there about. So, that 200watt power supply is probably putting out an eight as much heat, at most.
Bury 30 meters of pipe outside your house in 4-5 meters underground. One end in the house and one end up from the ground as a intake. Attach a fan and voila you got cool air year around no matter if you are in alaska or in sahara. Cheap and effective.
Excellent instruction and explanation of what’s going on and why. Testing at intervals very helpful too. The reality of the middling results and suggestions to improve the system makes this a top notch video. Craftsmanship is a plus. Thanks!
Dude! It's all about temperature differentials. You must "pre-cool" the hot side first in order to let the peltier device to work more efficiently. Things you can do, for example, keep the hot side away from the sun, use water cooling, etc. Also, calculate the BTU. Your room might have bad insulation so your west facing wall can be very hot to begin with. You didn't make a good air conditioner doesn't mean the theory is bunk.
It is bunk, though. In order to cool down a room appreciably, you'll need a ridiculous amount of energy and the heat generated by the unit would be massive. There's a reason why no serious producers of ACs use Peltier modules. You'd be much better off just buying a cheap AC. It'll be a hell of a lot more efficient.
If you run the vents through the floor it will work a lot better, I have seen a unit like yours used with pipe running three foot under the ground and it worked fantastically
Even after doing the work to select the best peltier TEC, you still prove that peltier devices are not very good for cooling unless you have free electricity.
I have to thought about putting one on windows with solar panel below and then just basically cooling the window through an outside and inside set of peltier coolers. Could even be used to dehumidify the insides if you had a collection on the cold window but it also might break the window.
in the caribbean here, im thinking solar panels. 13A is crazy for a 1c difference but its within range of a good panel. the carboard over the window isnt going to keep much heat out and cold in. at least cooking foil it. also need to make sure your doors are sealed or all your cold air just slips underneath. im looking to build something efficient to keep my mancave cold and the wife at bay with the electricity bill...the search continues.. 😂
@@luminousfractal420 I believe it's possible to buy split AC systems that are designed for use with solar power, that would give you the best combination of efficiency and effectiveness. More insulation would probably work well, too.
They technically work, but not well. As he showed, an amount of modules to actually cool well would be closer to 20, and that would use over 2000W. Further, Peltier (Seebeck) modules put the cold and hot so damnably close to each other that the insulation of these disparate areas is very difficult -- perhaps that's what you meant? Better design will not make a solid-state aircon work any better or more efficient. That's why there aren't any commercial units of that type.
@@babylonfive Better design would make a solid state aircon work better though. It's the whole point of engineering to play with he variables to make things more efficient.
Best build i did see for a long Time... Also try to get an old used aio pc cooler for cheap. Make those tubes longer and its working a lot better. Also try to use an better 15A (12715) ore 20A (12720) peltier module, rather than more cheap ones. Its more efficient that way. I use an 20A one, the biggest that fits on the aio pump unit, and an 200mm x 300mm Aluminium heatsink on the cold Side freezes without an fan. With one it gets my room about 4°C colder in one hour when im in my room. Also my powesupply is Inside. But i have an small room that is also very good insulated. Maybe that helps also. I think also your heatsinks are way to small on the hot Side. Peltierelelments can only cool effective about 10-15°C below the Temperatur of the hot side.
Well done! Thank you for your clear and honest presentation. I found your video because I was curious if Peltier modules could be used to create an air conditioner for a vintage Volkswagen.
I love this video! even though the project wasn't a "success" it was a success in terms of experimentation and analysis! love TEC and what you try to do with it.
I had the Cardboard all years to output my non-stationary AC. As outside protection i used the Gold/Silver emergencycover to reflect the IR-radiation. With Ductape it was realy strong :)
One easy way to make the carboard a better insulator would be to glue aluminum foil onto the outside surface so it reflects more sunlight instead of soaking up the sun. If you also add a layer of styrofoam between the cardboard and the aluminum it should be pretty effective.
Fun video, and honest about the results. I'm guessing there is no way to make an airconditioner better than a commercial one or someone would already have developed it as a commercial product. But who knows?
"better" is subjective. The high pressure pumps and gases are certainly the easiest. But another channel has done experiments to find effective cooling using a chemical liquid based system. It's quite large but very efficient.
It depends. Industry uses peltiers in combination with compressors. The compressor get's you roughly down, the peltier keeps your room inside 1 degree. But you need more modules and get the current per module down as P=R*I^2 creates a lot of heat inside the module.
Great job! Reality isn’t quite what one hoped. Like you say, to do it with peltier, the electricity costs would be too much. BUT, was thinking if there might be a way, maybe using fan and large hose to blow out the heat, to have a cooling fan not to cool down a whole room but to have near you just to cool yourself down on extreme heat days? In any case, well done project! Glad I watched it!
@@Sorin_DIY was just thinking, if the goal isn’t to cool down a whole room, but instead provide slight relief from the heat it might be a boom to so many. They market swamp coolers, but they don’t work when it’s humid. Even fans if the air is hot enough can be worse if blowing super hot air on you. So a small unit that one could keep close by, venting the heat far enough away could even save lives.
The cool side should have one air input, one air output. Creating the airflow in one direction, also have the car type vent on the exit side. Use a better insulation in between the cool side and the hot side. One peltier module will drop the temp with about 17degrees in a 25 liter coolerbox. Wich is an enclosed space. How many liters does a room have? :) nice thinking though.
If use air for cooling the hot side maybe you extend the intake using flexi hose and position in lower and shaded area. Then extend also the exhaust using tube away from the intake. Thanks for making this project I learned a lot.
Thanks a lot for the very well explained project. It is as if I had done it myself. Excellent . You final conclusion that it has a low efficiency, which leads me to think that it is suitable for far off places with no grid power where we can take the help of Solar power. I also admire the contribution of your cat for its approval and quality control. In summary a neat Project very well documented. Thanks once again.
Great project! I do think, you can improve temps on cold side by installing more and better fans on the hot side, more airflow is better. So is with the cold side too.
Amazing project, I'm impressed! You may also want to put the heat radiator end on the outside of the cardboard? The line of the peltier modules should be the divider at the window cardboard itself so that no heat from the heating end escape into the room. Would be good if you do another video with this configuration? Thanks!
People often underestimate just how much cooling power you can get from phase change technology. I've got a simple cooling bandana that I wear over my head that cools me a lot. There's also cooling vests that you can buy, or make, that sort of shift the heat to a time when you're not wearing the vest. Some of them, can be worn directly on the skin and simply left to sit over night to recharge. I was just at Universal Studios Hollywood recently and they've got massive fans with misters in front of them that can cool an area relatively efficiently just by the phase change of the water droplets evaporating. In doors, and in humid areas, air conditioners tend to be the best option, provided you have power and an enclosed room. In most other cases, you're better off with fans or some sort of phase change device. Stirling engines and the like would also remove heat form the system, but have a similar issue in terms of needing a heat gradiant to power them.
finally i can make my own ac for my sciece project oh wait i had a fight with my firend about making a fridge not an ac because it is less efficient seeing your test videos i noticed that 12703 peltier module gives highest coolness even makes ice if i had used these peltier module in my fridge i could even make a freezer or make it water cooled i gotta send this video to my friend now
I also do some DIY with Peltier elements. For sure I will watch your other videos about this. I would like to build a fermentation box for sourdough. This is to be kept at a constant 28°C. The Peltier element must therefore be used as a heater for most of the year. I hope to be able to heat a small box with two elements. To reduce the current, connected the elements in series and double the voltage. First experiments suggest that I can run the elements at about half the rated voltage, which should boost the efficiency.
I wonder if you could improve cooling a little, by adapting some PC technology? By that I mean having a liquid-cooling setup for the hot sides of the peltiers. CPU water cooling blocks, a pump, a bucket for a reservoir, with a fan cooling off a PC radiator instead? The thermal mass of a few gallons of liquid should be able to dissipate a lot of the heat generated, and a radiator-and-fan combo will help cool the heated liquid if it eventually needs it... One minor oversight I just thought of: do you have a way to address condensation on the cold side of the peltiers? Up until the point where it gets cold enough to frost over, and after you turn it off and the frost melts, you'll have some water dripping inside, onto the bottom panel. I'm not criticizing, I'm offering suggestions when/if you redesign. 😃 I've spent the past few years mentally planning a dual-temperature peltier-based system with two separate liquid loops and a switching valve to pump either heated or chilled liquid through an automotive radiator and fan.
Hi. In this test it made very little condensation, but for longer use it will need a drain. I will improve the design for the next test with more Peltier modules, different voltages, better heatsinks and a better insulating panel.
I enjoyed your video and I subscribed. I believe there are other diy projects or builds that can cool a room for less energy/watts. I like how you make your videos. Very interesting.
I've read of high efficiency peltier modules but I don't think their commercially available and I bet still less efficient than a compressor. Commercial peltier AC units are/were sold for industrial applications were they can be installed in any orientation (upside down on a ceiling).
a fun & informative project as always, Sorin. I'm curious if using a radiator would help with the efficiency of your build... so the peltier modules heat liquid inside a tank/reservoir instead of air, then the liquid would be pumped out to a radiator which will transfer the cold to the air & the warmer liquid returns to the top of the reservoir to close the loop. > Also, instead of venting the hot air horizontally, it would be better if the pipes were right over the heat sinks pointed upward with the fan repositioned to the bottom so natural air convection can pull more heat off the hot side. > Of course, the power used by the additional fan that pulls air through the radiator may offset the cooling gains with even more power consumption... but I'd be curious to see if this is a viable alternative. cheers & looking forward to your next adventure with your assistant Chichi!
Hi. With water cooling it will probably be a bit more efficient. But it will become more expensive. In the end it still needs more than 4 Peltier modules. So the water cooling needs to dissipate 200W of heat or more.
@@Sorin_DIY right... good point. :D I wish I had enough of a handle on fluid dynamics & heat transfer to make the calculations but in the end it would end up costing a lot more than traditional cooling systems or heat pumps. > btw, perhaps an idea for a future project: a DiY heat pump cooler using hobbyist parts & household chemicals (so no industrial refrigerants)... cheers & thanks for the insightful response! PS: say "meow!" to Chichi for me :D
There were a few drops of water at the end of the test, but not a lot. Probably because the cold radiator was not very cold and most of the humidity evaporated.
The hot side ventilation is super restrictive. Remove all the case around those hot side heatsink's an use 3 fans. Also reduce the voltage to about 6 maybe 7V to the peltier for increased efficiency total power consumption will be around 30W including all the fans. Then all you need to do is multiply this by around 10x and you will have a decent enough room air conditioning. So 40 peltier modules each around 6 to 7W with a COP of around 1 thus about 280W of cooling power likely just good enough for that one room.
wow this is cool I was always curious how it will turn out if i make something like this.. the question is how about the humidity absorb from the room? I would love to see an upgraded version of this. Huge Thumbs up
Finally someone that brings some cat to the table.. I mean.. some light... you not only delivered the truth about all the DIY projects that claim godly results, but you also made your own version to prove it, and with real world measurements. Now I need a nice DIY project to use the peltiers I bought years ago
If you build get good peltiers with a propper datasheet. Those modules move heat depending on voltage or current, but as any component it produces heat with the square of the current. Some even work in both direction so you could build a closed loop AC control like in your car.
Consider a few items to help the efficiency. 1. While you could put the power supply outside, consider putting it INSIDE in the hot side where the fan draws the air across the heatsinks and then exhausts the hotter air to the pipe to the outside. 2. No point in not using convection to help. Thus consider making it vertical rather than horizontal. The hot side will tend to want to go up; so put the power supply on top, pulling the air up. The cold side will want the air to go down. A fan might be needed; but perhaps not. 3. The hot side needs more insulation from the room... and the cold side. 4. By concentrating on colder temperature rather than airflow, you should gear it towards having condensation on the cold side -- thus provide a means for this collection and get it out of the airflow. 5. If the needed temperature difference is too great for one layer of peltier modules, consider stacking them. I suspect that you might want a bit of thermal mass between them just to regulate things a bit; but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as you will want to increase the insulation between the sides. 6. While Peltier modules are typically driven by a static DC voltage, I am curious if there might be some room for using PWM to kind of regulate the total current used. If it turns out to be OK, then one could use an arduino or the like to regulate the power to each module depending upon the temperatures on either side. This would only help if there was enough power savings from this to more than power the arduino and such.... Just some thoughts, Thank you for the content....
I am curious how much cooling was provided. Can you measure the airflow? This would quantify the cooling rate and you measured the current. This would give you an EER rating and you could then compare to other units for efficiency. You will then understand why this technology is not used. That said using photovoltaic panels as power source. Cooling off grid? Might have a small application. I enjoy your effort. Keep going!
HI Sorin, Just found your channel, watched some of the other peltier DIYs, and this one 1st, KUDOS!! for your willingness to re-design, and modify your builds. Learning new types of DIY skills is all about prototyping, and making multiple changes. DIYers need to know this. MISTAKES CAN & WILL HAPPEN!. Just change something, whatever 2nd, I think you are more engineer than electronics! LOL! I say because the builds and measurements are so meticulous. That's the engineer. 3rd, Some, ideas. -a. Double layer plexiglass above conditioner Instead of all cardboard -b. Use that Ice Box insulating foam on the cardboard part IF, to be semi-permanent, Then outside needs a few things. A. Covers or lips on input and output of air vents for rain B. Filtration to prevent external fans and fins from getting "gunked" up, anything from auto particulates, to dust, to whatever. C. HEPA filter at the outside intake? no too dense, I fine mesh screen? better, Something else? You stated the 4 peltiers consume 13A at 12VDC, .I the US with 120VAC about 1.3A This is far less than the smallest window window air conditioner I can buy. By doubling the peltiers to 8, that doubles the energy required to2.6A or about 320 watts. I only want to keep indoors safely below 27 deg C (80 deg F) Before the effects of global climate change, I would pull out a small fan and use if for a week or so, until the fog returned. Now with global climate, the brief annual heatwave has turned into month long heatwaves (plural). And they are hotter, Have had records over 38 deg C, (100 deg F)!! All outlets combined and overhead lights are on one 15A circuit. yeah, older American building, Last re-wired in maybe the 1950's. I dread having to get a monstrosity in install in my window. SO, this is the solution I've been looking for! Been thinking about peltiers but thought too small and no way to keep hot air outside. Those dumb ice cube fan air conditioners, only increase humidity, Check wet bulb point remain the same. Wet bulb point is what kills. Thank you Sorin for this well-thought out prototype and build. I will use this prototype to work on a version for here!! Forget a 15A window conditioner that would blow out my circuit breaker whenever used!
Hi, thanks for the comment. Yes, I plan to improve the design and test a new air cooler, or air conditioner project. The cardboard is the biggest problem, so I will replace it.
I like, well before watching the video because mr has good taste.😃 The "stay cool" t-shirt, I had the same one in the 90s, it was a surfer swimming with a girl on his knees and a shark right next to it 😄
Instead of using heat sinks for the hot side of peltier module, you can use liquid cooling techniques!, It will be more effective than your current made prototype. Thank me if I am right 👍🏻
Insulating foam added to the cardboard will increase the R Value. Cut with a hot knife or resistive wire heated up will leave a smoother edge that can hold weather stripping. Sizing the foam correctly to fit inside the opening where the weather stripping presses into the frame will reduce hot air pushing its way into the room. 2" foam has an R value of 10. Double up on the foam and you should be able to get R20. Thicker fans should have higher static pressure tolerance which is needed when you have the restriction to air flow inside that design. Thin fans will work but you will get more CFM with higher static pressure fans. Outside air is hot. If you have access to the ground, consider drawing air in through a large diameter pipe buried in the ground. Insulate this pipe where it comes out of the ground. The longer length under ground the better. There needs to be a way for condensation to be drained from the pipe so leave an opening at one end with some rock there to let condensation out. Cooler air going into the hot side of the peltier cooler should make it more efficient, though you will need to size the PVC or thinwall tubing to be large enough diameter to keep restriction low. Maybe even 2 pipes buried so the air moves more slowly through them. You may still find some efficiency limitations here, but i suspect you'll get much better results addressing these two issues. Moving air around instead and getting more air flow through the cold side would also be a good idea.
One thing that will help is have a more powerful fan for the outdoor and variable speedfan for the indoor with a much powerful power supply that is capable of giving enough power to it
I will use those peliter to make a cooler for a laptop. A stand that makes cold enough air to be sucked in be the laptop fan this way increasing the laptop cooling. Especially gaming laptops that reach 90 degrees or more.
On thing you need to consider, the outside of your model, may recirculate the hot air, try to put elbows for the hot air to be discharged far from the fan sucking area.
Interesting video and I think the idea behind your prototype is good. What I can think of so quickly after seeing your video is that the exhaust fan has too little capacity, also the fan on the cooling side. I would also recommend making a double separation between the hot and cold side in this DIY box. Try that first before purchasing more peltier. Let us know if the difference has increased. Succes, greetings from a 28 degrees C. Rotterdam.
Peltiers have a datasheet which tells you how you get a low temperature vs how to move heat most effectively. At 12V your cold side most likely suffers from the heat generated in the module. Somewhere around 5-7V should be more efficient. Then you can scale up the numbers of elements, probably 6-10x. And that's why they are never used for air conditioning. A compressor or an condensor move much more heat in a much cheaper package. Peltiers are cool if you need precise temperature control, extremely cold temperatures or you can afford the huge ones with proper Isolation between hot and cold terminal.
You could spitz yourself with a bottle of distilled water, then stand in front a low speed fan, or sit, and the evaporating water will steal heat to chill you off efficiency / Peltier coolers like this are only about 4% electrically efficient as coolers when used in such solid state compact fridges and similar / cheap for sure, but not efficient / I am reminded of early gasoline engines //
Ca sa aveti rezultate bune la climatizare trebuie neaparat sa izolati termic pe interior 1 peretele exterior 2 geamul .Dupa care faceti iar test+grafic+vedeti cu termoviziunea situatia si mai izolati soprafete ce radiaza caldura.Elementele Peltier au randament f mic=energofage. Multumim pentru calitatea prezentarii❤
It could be further optimized with a high power fan on the hot side to provide better cooling there. That would make the cold side cooler too. However those peletier modules are very inefficient, so you are probably better off with buying a cheap monoblock ac or even a split unit. Nice Video though :)
Fit the cool side behind a bldc pedestal fan , give proper duct out to hot side with a mini 12v fan which leads to a window frame as seen in portable AC's also add water cooling for the hot side. Don't intend to cool the whole room instead sit besides the fan and it should provide enough cooling near the main fan.
One thing- you should try to power the outside fan with a little bit more voltage with DCDC step up converter to increase an air flow through the heatsinks. This will deffinitively help a lot. The maxximum temperature outside in your country is probably 35c so when the heatsinks has 40c ( only if they are cooled enough ) the temps of the cold side will be somewhere around 10-12c, with fan enabled, maybe 20 at worst. And last but not least, i will add not one but all 3 fans outside and left the side holes open to help hot air escape much more easily. This is only my opinion what you could've done better. 200W of " cooling " is enough to cool 20m2 room 2-3 degrees lower as it is outside. But i will be using more than 4 modules, maybe 8 or 12 to get 600W of cooling and i will add one big fat alluminium heatsink to the hot side and maybe 4 fans to keep every TEC in a outside temperature range. And for the cold side i will also add one big allu heatsink and one 120mm fan. Outside fans will be also 120mm with DCDC set to 14V instead of 12 , more airflow, more cooling on the other side
Yes, these upgrades will definitely improve the cooling. This video was my first attempt at building an air con with Peltier modules. I will build a new and improved version with more Peltier modules, bigger heatsinks, bigger fans, better window panel (maybe with the window semi-closed). But it will take time to order all the components and build it, so it will probably be ready next summer :)
@@Sorin_DIY Just use the same one, but have fans blowing (pulling and pushing air- 4 total fans) from the sides and use 2 hoses to get/excaust the air from outside while keeping the window mostly closed
Liked the video, love the cat. Also, I bet I have more of those CPU coolers than you do!! LOL I scrap old computers for parts like those, the fans, CD/DVD drives, and all sorts of other stuff. I like building things just like you do.
Thanks Sorin for experimenting again with Peltier panels. I was always fascinated with Peltier modules, but never had opportunity to solve the heat issue properly and keeping energy consumption low compared to other already available devices on market. Thanks to heat pumps (also small ones), there are plenty of choices out there for heating or cooling and their prices are also dropping. Therefore, Peltier panels probably will stay forgotten for another 100 years :) Maybe you could do an experiment with a little solar panel (I know a lot of ampere would be needed and easily it can become unreasonably expensive project) and a small heating module made of Peltier panels for winter. This way it could be completely green solution, if feasible.
Thank you for being honest about your results.
Your cat is also a welcome addition.
The cutting precision of your construction is impressive. I wish my projects looked as nice.
It is cnc cut
I cant even get my 3d prints this nice >_>
The most honest video about peltier conditioners I've ever seen.
Excellent job!
Woah joined youtube 17years ago
I love your helper. I had one for 14 years that was involved in every project I did, he just had to be with me when I was working on my hobbies. Alas, time took him away and I miss the heck out of him. I like the way you explained the "real world" effects of your experiment. Too many people would do the same experiment and claim it cooled the whole room by 20 degrees. Great job.
I remember being fascinated with these after getting my first mini fridge. Really cool physics but they drew a ton of power and were easily heat saturated. At best they had a temperature gradient between the sides of 40 degrees. Hopefully the technology has progressed but compressor systems are simply more efficient
Clear cut presentation, easy to follow steps, no music, no bs. Channels like these should be getting tons of subscribers.
planned for this project but dropped it after seeing your video. Thanks
I watched the whole video, didn't think I would but impressive, fair and lots of detail.
I'm glad I'm watching the only REAL Pelt video on the interzone.
Finally a honest Peltier AC video! I feel if you got more airflow on the outdoor heatsinks there may be better results
Heating or cooling anything aren't cheap, I respect this guy's honesty (at 12:59 mark). One can play around this all you want, but if you need real cooling, get a proper air conditioner.
Multumesc Sorine,era cit pe ce sa fac si eu un experiment in genul asta.Acum m-am lamurit spor in continuare ,big like.
If you reverse the polarity on the Peltier coolers it will be more efficient as a warmer for winter times
I like how you keep the thermometer at the place where the cold air comes out. Other youtubers put it inside the heatsink and trick us.
This would definitely save hours, efforts and power for anyone thinking of making ab air conditioner out of peltier modules. Its enticing, but impractical.
Thanks for sharing!
I'm not so sure that this can be deemed impractical yet. There are many ways to improve this. And he didn't do it at the same power scale as a typical window AC unit. I'd like to see this done with 900w-1,000w worth of peltier modules, intake from the inside instead of from the outside, the power supply outside, and possibly more insulation.
@@bubbleboy821 Yes, it's enticing, but, the wow factor ends there. The returns are unremarkable.
@@bubbleboy821Se vai usar tanta potência assim 900w a 1000w é praticamente o consumo de um ar condicionado, até mais na verdade, um ar condicionado split é por volta de 750 a 900w
Very helpful explanation .
Sir , thank you so much for sharing your technical knowledge .
I am from Sri Lanka .
10:45
Sorin: I turn the PC and lights off because I don't want a heat source in this room
Also Sorin: switches on a 200 W power supply to "cool his room" 🤪😂
If his power supply is extremely efficient, the heat generated would be nearly negligible, it would be better than a 12v wall socket adapter or other common power supplies.
Yeah takes heaps of power.. better put the power source outside the room you want to cool!
200 watt power supplies won't normally significantly affect room temperature.
Neither a 4W LED light bulb
@@shamancredible8632 Yes, that's generally their peak output and a typical heater is 1500watts or there about. So, that 200watt power supply is probably putting out an eight as much heat, at most.
You have excellent craftsmanship. Very honest experiment. Thank you.
Bury 30 meters of pipe outside your house in 4-5 meters underground. One end in the house and one end up from the ground as a intake. Attach a fan and voila you got cool air year around no matter if you are in alaska or in sahara.
Cheap and effective.
Excellent instruction and explanation of what’s going on and why. Testing at intervals very helpful too. The reality of the middling results and suggestions to improve the system makes this a top notch video. Craftsmanship is a plus. Thanks!
Dude! It's all about temperature differentials. You must "pre-cool" the hot side first in order to let the peltier device to work more efficiently. Things you can do, for example, keep the hot side away from the sun, use water cooling, etc. Also, calculate the BTU. Your room might have bad insulation so your west facing wall can be very hot to begin with. You didn't make a good air conditioner doesn't mean the theory is bunk.
It is bunk, though.
In order to cool down a room appreciably, you'll need a ridiculous amount of energy and the heat generated by the unit would be massive. There's a reason why no serious producers of ACs use Peltier modules.
You'd be much better off just buying a cheap AC. It'll be a hell of a lot more efficient.
The only youtuber that i blindly push like before watching video and never had disappointed me, Great job master Sorin.
"cardboard is a *sheet* insulator"
Well done Sorin! 🥁
If you run the vents through the floor it will work a lot better, I have seen a unit like yours used with pipe running three foot under the ground and it worked fantastically
Even after doing the work to select the best peltier TEC, you still prove that peltier devices are not very good for cooling unless you have free electricity.
I have to thought about putting one on windows with solar panel below and then just basically cooling the window through an outside and inside set of peltier coolers. Could even be used to dehumidify the insides if you had a collection on the cold window but it also might break the window.
in the caribbean here, im thinking solar panels.
13A is crazy for a 1c difference but its within range of a good panel. the carboard over the window isnt going to keep much heat out and cold in. at least cooking foil it.
also need to make sure your doors are sealed or all your cold air just slips underneath.
im looking to build something efficient to keep my mancave cold and the wife at bay with the electricity bill...the search continues.. 😂
@@luminousfractal420 I believe it's possible to buy split AC systems that are designed for use with solar power, that would give you the best combination of efficiency and effectiveness. More insulation would probably work well, too.
planned for this project but dropped it after seeing your video 👍
Good video.
I think it is the reason why these peltier modules are not used in big refrigerators, only in very small ones.
Great video. They work, but they require many design considerations since they are so close to each other.
They technically work, but not well. As he showed, an amount of modules to actually cool well would be closer to 20, and that would use over 2000W. Further, Peltier (Seebeck) modules put the cold and hot so damnably close to each other that the insulation of these disparate areas is very difficult -- perhaps that's what you meant? Better design will not make a solid-state aircon work any better or more efficient. That's why there aren't any commercial units of that type.
@@babylonfive Better design would make a solid state aircon work better though. It's the whole point of engineering to play with he variables to make things more efficient.
Best build i did see for a long Time... Also try to get an old used aio pc cooler for cheap. Make those tubes longer and its working a lot better. Also try to use an better 15A (12715) ore 20A (12720) peltier module, rather than more cheap ones. Its more efficient that way. I use an 20A one, the biggest that fits on the aio pump unit, and an 200mm x 300mm Aluminium heatsink on the cold Side freezes without an fan. With one it gets my room about 4°C colder in one hour when im in my room. Also my powesupply is Inside. But i have an small room that is also very good insulated. Maybe that helps also.
I think also your heatsinks are way to small on the hot Side. Peltierelelments can only cool effective about 10-15°C below the Temperatur of the hot side.
thanks for straigt up honesty, a relief from all the BS youtube pushes
Well done! Thank you for your clear and honest presentation. I found your video because I was curious if Peltier modules could be used to create an air conditioner for a vintage Volkswagen.
I love this video! even though the project wasn't a "success" it was a success in terms of experimentation and analysis! love TEC and what you try to do with it.
So power efficient! Replace your regular AC will this s awesome one!
I had the Cardboard all years to output my non-stationary AC. As outside protection i used the Gold/Silver emergencycover to reflect the IR-radiation. With Ductape it was realy strong :)
One easy way to make the carboard a better insulator would be to glue aluminum foil onto the outside surface so it reflects more sunlight instead of soaking up the sun. If you also add a layer of styrofoam between the cardboard and the aluminum it should be pretty effective.
Fun video, and honest about the results. I'm guessing there is no way to make an airconditioner better than a commercial one or someone would already have developed it as a commercial product. But who knows?
"better" is subjective. The high pressure pumps and gases are certainly the easiest. But another channel has done experiments to find effective cooling using a chemical liquid based system. It's quite large but very efficient.
It depends. Industry uses peltiers in combination with compressors. The compressor get's you roughly down, the peltier keeps your room inside 1 degree.
But you need more modules and get the current per module down as P=R*I^2 creates a lot of heat inside the module.
Great job! Reality isn’t quite what one hoped. Like you say, to do it with peltier, the electricity costs would be too much. BUT, was thinking if there might be a way, maybe using fan and large hose to blow out the heat, to have a cooling fan not to cool down a whole room but to have near you just to cool yourself down on extreme heat days? In any case, well done project! Glad I watched it!
Thanks. Yes, the project can be improved, I will try it in a future video.
@@Sorin_DIY was just thinking, if the goal isn’t to cool down a whole room, but instead provide slight relief from the heat it might be a boom to so many. They market swamp coolers, but they don’t work when it’s humid. Even fans if the air is hot enough can be worse if blowing super hot air on you. So a small unit that one could keep close by, venting the heat far enough away could even save lives.
The cool side should have one air input, one air output. Creating the airflow in one direction, also have the car type vent on the exit side. Use a better insulation in between the cool side and the hot side. One peltier module will drop the temp with about 17degrees in a 25 liter coolerbox. Wich is an enclosed space. How many liters does a room have? :) nice thinking though.
If use air for cooling the hot side maybe you extend the intake using flexi hose and position in lower and shaded area. Then extend also the exhaust using tube away from the intake. Thanks for making this project I learned a lot.
I'm just discovering your channel ( thank you, youtube algorythm ! ) and I really enjoyed this video, you just got a new subscriber, congratulations !
Thanks a lot for the very well explained project. It is as if I had done it myself. Excellent . You final conclusion that it has a low efficiency, which leads me to think that it is suitable for far off places with no grid power where we can take the help of Solar power. I also admire the contribution of your cat for its approval and quality control. In summary a neat Project very well documented. Thanks once again.
Great project! I do think, you can improve temps on cold side by installing more and better fans on the hot side, more airflow is better. So is with the cold side too.
Very nice video. Maybe this could explain why big companies did not launch so far a peltier-based air-conditioner.
Amazing project, I'm impressed! You may also want to put the heat radiator end on the outside of the cardboard? The line of the peltier modules should be the divider at the window cardboard itself so that no heat from the heating end escape into the room.
Would be good if you do another video with this configuration? Thanks!
Great project to cool an outdoor cabinet with electronics.
Great attempt and goes to show why Air conditioner companies still use compressor based coolers
People often underestimate just how much cooling power you can get from phase change technology. I've got a simple cooling bandana that I wear over my head that cools me a lot. There's also cooling vests that you can buy, or make, that sort of shift the heat to a time when you're not wearing the vest. Some of them, can be worn directly on the skin and simply left to sit over night to recharge.
I was just at Universal Studios Hollywood recently and they've got massive fans with misters in front of them that can cool an area relatively efficiently just by the phase change of the water droplets evaporating.
In doors, and in humid areas, air conditioners tend to be the best option, provided you have power and an enclosed room. In most other cases, you're better off with fans or some sort of phase change device.
Stirling engines and the like would also remove heat form the system, but have a similar issue in terms of needing a heat gradiant to power them.
finally i can make my own ac for my sciece project
oh wait i had a fight with my firend about making a fridge not an ac because it is less efficient seeing your test videos i noticed that 12703 peltier module gives highest coolness even makes ice if i had used these peltier module in my fridge i could even make a freezer or make it water cooled i gotta send this video to my friend now
am going to try watercooling with raw sea water for my boat with a car radiator when summer comes
I also do some DIY with Peltier elements. For sure I will watch your other videos about this.
I would like to build a fermentation box for sourdough. This is to be kept at a constant 28°C. The Peltier element must therefore be used as a heater for most of the year. I hope to be able to heat a small box with two elements.
To reduce the current, connected the elements in series and double the voltage. First experiments suggest that I can run the elements at about half the rated voltage, which should boost the efficiency.
your all projects are great, but, mostly i like it when your all time available supervisor comes in picture with your company :)
I wonder if you could improve cooling a little, by adapting some PC technology? By that I mean having a liquid-cooling setup for the hot sides of the peltiers. CPU water cooling blocks, a pump, a bucket for a reservoir, with a fan cooling off a PC radiator instead? The thermal mass of a few gallons of liquid should be able to dissipate a lot of the heat generated, and a radiator-and-fan combo will help cool the heated liquid if it eventually needs it...
One minor oversight I just thought of: do you have a way to address condensation on the cold side of the peltiers? Up until the point where it gets cold enough to frost over, and after you turn it off and the frost melts, you'll have some water dripping inside, onto the bottom panel.
I'm not criticizing, I'm offering suggestions when/if you redesign. 😃 I've spent the past few years mentally planning a dual-temperature peltier-based system with two separate liquid loops and a switching valve to pump either heated or chilled liquid through an automotive radiator and fan.
Hi. In this test it made very little condensation, but for longer use it will need a drain.
I will improve the design for the next test with more Peltier modules, different voltages, better heatsinks and a better insulating panel.
I enjoyed your video and I subscribed. I believe there are other diy projects or builds that can cool a room for less energy/watts. I like how you make your videos. Very interesting.
I've read of high efficiency peltier modules but I don't think their commercially available and I bet still less efficient than a compressor. Commercial peltier AC units are/were sold for industrial applications were they can be installed in any orientation (upside down on a ceiling).
a fun & informative project as always, Sorin.
I'm curious if using a radiator would help with the efficiency of your build... so the peltier modules heat liquid inside a tank/reservoir instead of air, then the liquid would be pumped out to a radiator which will transfer the cold to the air & the warmer liquid returns to the top of the reservoir to close the loop.
> Also, instead of venting the hot air horizontally, it would be better if the pipes were right over the heat sinks pointed upward with the fan repositioned to the bottom so natural air convection can pull more heat off the hot side.
> Of course, the power used by the additional fan that pulls air through the radiator may offset the cooling gains with even more power consumption... but I'd be curious to see if this is a viable alternative.
cheers & looking forward to your next adventure with your assistant Chichi!
Hi. With water cooling it will probably be a bit more efficient. But it will become more expensive. In the end it still needs more than 4 Peltier modules. So the water cooling needs to dissipate 200W of heat or more.
@@Sorin_DIY right... good point.
:D I wish I had enough of a handle on fluid dynamics & heat transfer to make the calculations but in the end it would end up costing a lot more than traditional cooling systems or heat pumps.
> btw, perhaps an idea for a future project: a DiY heat pump cooler using hobbyist parts & household chemicals (so no industrial refrigerants)...
cheers & thanks for the insightful response!
PS: say "meow!" to Chichi for me :D
ah, i found this channel again when i needed it the most
I am really impressed. Thanks for sharing this idea.
Finally a good test with the data really matters. No condensed water on cool side needs to be collected?
There were a few drops of water at the end of the test, but not a lot. Probably because the cold radiator was not very cold and most of the humidity evaporated.
The hot side ventilation is super restrictive. Remove all the case around those hot side heatsink's an use 3 fans. Also reduce the voltage to about 6 maybe 7V to the peltier for increased efficiency total power consumption will be around 30W including all the fans. Then all you need to do is multiply this by around 10x and you will have a decent enough room air conditioning. So 40 peltier modules each around 6 to 7W with a COP of around 1 thus about 280W of cooling power likely just good enough for that one room.
This might be a good solution for someone looking to cool down a small space like a cabin of a boat with solar panels and a deep cyce battery
wow this is cool I was always curious how it will turn out if i make something like this.. the question is how about the humidity absorb from the room? I would love to see an upgraded version of this. Huge Thumbs up
Finally someone that brings some cat to the table.. I mean.. some light... you not only delivered the truth about all the DIY projects that claim godly results, but you also made your own version to prove it, and with real world measurements.
Now I need a nice DIY project to use the peltiers I bought years ago
From one electronics dork to another - Thanks! I have a design to make one of these for my sailboat - very informative - you have a new subscriber
If you build get good peltiers with a propper datasheet. Those modules move heat depending on voltage or current, but as any component it produces heat with the square of the current.
Some even work in both direction so you could build a closed loop AC control like in your car.
this
th-cam.com/video/xF113aUlZgo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=JkJaNttzaZXlGb-O
is a better idea for a yacht a/c, I've built one for mine, it's really effective.
Consider a few items to help the efficiency.
1. While you could put the power supply outside, consider putting it INSIDE in the hot side where the fan draws the air across the heatsinks and then exhausts the hotter air to the pipe to the outside.
2. No point in not using convection to help. Thus consider making it vertical rather than horizontal. The hot side will tend to want to go up; so put the power supply on top, pulling the air up. The cold side will want the air to go down. A fan might be needed; but perhaps not.
3. The hot side needs more insulation from the room... and the cold side.
4. By concentrating on colder temperature rather than airflow, you should gear it towards having condensation on the cold side -- thus provide a means for this collection and get it out of the airflow.
5. If the needed temperature difference is too great for one layer of peltier modules, consider stacking them. I suspect that you might want a bit of thermal mass between them just to regulate things a bit; but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as you will want to increase the insulation between the sides.
6. While Peltier modules are typically driven by a static DC voltage, I am curious if there might be some room for using PWM to kind of regulate the total current used. If it turns out to be OK, then one could use an arduino or the like to regulate the power to each module depending upon the temperatures on either side. This would only help if there was enough power savings from this to more than power the arduino and such....
Just some thoughts,
Thank you for the content....
I am curious how much cooling was provided. Can you measure the airflow? This would quantify the cooling rate and you measured the current. This would give you an EER rating and you could then compare to other units for efficiency. You will then understand why this technology is not used. That said using photovoltaic panels as power source. Cooling off grid? Might have a small application. I enjoy your effort. Keep going!
Thank you for speaking true!
Excellent experiment, i appreciate your interest and patience, you are really great 👍❤
How about another peltier that will cool all the hot sides?
It's not enough, each Peltier modules produces more heat than cold, they are very inefficient.
@@Sorin_DIY oh I see.
HI Sorin, Just found your channel, watched some of the other peltier DIYs, and this one
1st, KUDOS!! for your willingness to re-design, and modify your builds. Learning new types of DIY skills is all about prototyping, and making multiple changes. DIYers need to know this. MISTAKES CAN & WILL HAPPEN!. Just change something, whatever
2nd, I think you are more engineer than electronics! LOL! I say because the builds and measurements are so meticulous. That's the engineer.
3rd, Some, ideas.
-a. Double layer plexiglass above conditioner Instead of all cardboard
-b. Use that Ice Box insulating foam on the cardboard part
IF, to be semi-permanent, Then outside needs a few things.
A. Covers or lips on input and output of air vents for rain
B. Filtration to prevent external fans and fins from getting "gunked" up, anything from auto particulates, to dust, to whatever.
C. HEPA filter at the outside intake? no too dense, I fine mesh screen? better, Something else?
You stated the 4 peltiers consume 13A at 12VDC, .I the US with 120VAC about 1.3A This is far less than the smallest window window air conditioner I can buy. By doubling the peltiers to 8, that doubles the energy required to2.6A or about 320 watts.
I only want to keep indoors safely below 27 deg C (80 deg F) Before the effects of global climate change, I would pull out a small fan and use if for a week or so, until the fog returned.
Now with global climate, the brief annual heatwave has turned into month long heatwaves (plural). And they are hotter, Have had records over 38 deg C, (100 deg F)!!
All outlets combined and overhead lights are on one 15A circuit. yeah, older American building, Last re-wired in maybe the 1950's. I dread having to get a monstrosity in install in my window.
SO, this is the solution I've been looking for! Been thinking about peltiers but thought too small and no way to keep hot air outside. Those dumb ice cube fan air conditioners, only increase humidity, Check wet bulb point remain the same. Wet bulb point is what kills.
Thank you Sorin for this well-thought out prototype and build. I will use this prototype to work on a version for here!! Forget a 15A window conditioner that would blow out my circuit breaker whenever used!
Hi, thanks for the comment.
Yes, I plan to improve the design and test a new air cooler, or air conditioner project. The cardboard is the biggest problem, so I will replace it.
I like, well before watching the video because mr has good taste.😃
The "stay cool" t-shirt, I had the same one in the 90s, it was a surfer swimming with a girl on his knees and a shark right next to it 😄
I always enjoy your videos and learn alot. Please make more videos for us
Instead of using heat sinks for the hot side of peltier module, you can use liquid cooling techniques!, It will be more effective than your current made prototype.
Thank me if I am right 👍🏻
As always i absolutely enjoy watching ur videos brother 🎉😊 keep up the good work
Insulating foam added to the cardboard will increase the R Value. Cut with a hot knife or resistive wire heated up will leave a smoother edge that can hold weather stripping. Sizing the foam correctly to fit inside the opening where the weather stripping presses into the frame will reduce hot air pushing its way into the room.
2" foam has an R value of 10. Double up on the foam and you should be able to get R20.
Thicker fans should have higher static pressure tolerance which is needed when you have the restriction to air flow inside that design. Thin fans will work but you will get more CFM with higher static pressure fans.
Outside air is hot. If you have access to the ground, consider drawing air in through a large diameter pipe buried in the ground. Insulate this pipe where it comes out of the ground. The longer length under ground the better. There needs to be a way for condensation to be drained from the pipe so leave an opening at one end with some rock there to let condensation out. Cooler air going into the hot side of the peltier cooler should make it more efficient, though you will need to size the PVC or thinwall tubing to be large enough diameter to keep restriction low. Maybe even 2 pipes buried so the air moves more slowly through them.
You may still find some efficiency limitations here, but i suspect you'll get much better results addressing these two issues. Moving air around instead and getting more air flow through the cold side would also be a good idea.
One thing that will help is have a more powerful fan for the outdoor and variable speedfan for the indoor with a much powerful power supply that is capable of giving enough power to it
I subscribed just for the "Don't encourage those bastards faking it" towards the end. 10/10 all around
I will use those peliter to make a cooler for a laptop. A stand that makes cold enough air to be sucked in be the laptop fan this way increasing the laptop cooling. Especially gaming laptops that reach 90 degrees or more.
On thing you need to consider, the outside of your model, may recirculate the hot air, try to put elbows for the hot air to be discharged far from the fan sucking area.
Yes, I thought about that, it needs some longer pipes.
Interesting video and I think the idea behind your prototype is good. What I can think of so quickly after seeing your video is that the exhaust fan has too little capacity, also the fan on the cooling side.
I would also recommend making a double separation between the hot and cold side in this DIY box. Try that first before purchasing more peltier. Let us know if the difference has increased.
Succes, greetings from a 28 degrees C. Rotterdam.
Great video. Water to air is definitely better on power. Especially with usb powered fan and water pump.
Hey Man That Was My Idea I Was Going To Get A Patent For It
Peltiers have a datasheet which tells you how you get a low temperature vs how to move heat most effectively.
At 12V your cold side most likely suffers from the heat generated in the module. Somewhere around 5-7V should be more efficient. Then you can scale up the numbers of elements, probably 6-10x.
And that's why they are never used for air conditioning. A compressor or an condensor move much more heat in a much cheaper package.
Peltiers are cool if you need precise temperature control, extremely cold temperatures or you can afford the huge ones with proper Isolation between hot and cold terminal.
You could spitz yourself with a bottle of distilled water, then stand in front a low speed fan, or sit, and the evaporating water will steal heat to chill you off efficiency / Peltier coolers like this are only about 4% electrically efficient as coolers when used in such solid state compact fridges and similar / cheap for sure, but not efficient / I am reminded of early gasoline engines //
Very nice project!
Cool video! more plausible because there is a professional supervisor/ assistant. cheers!
Ca sa aveti rezultate bune la climatizare trebuie neaparat sa izolati termic pe interior 1 peretele exterior 2 geamul .Dupa care faceti iar test+grafic+vedeti cu termoviziunea situatia si mai izolati soprafete ce radiaza caldura.Elementele Peltier au randament f mic=energofage.
Multumim pentru calitatea prezentarii❤
Very funny & honest report of your project!
What if you made a big water-cooled peltor air conditioner ? Putting the heat part outdoors.
thank you for sharing your experiment, I am dreaming we can provide low energy cooling for people that not so fortunate.
Very nice Omule!
man good thing i decided to see if someone else had tried this before i went and bought all the equipment in an attempt to cool my room
It could be further optimized with a high power fan on the hot side to provide better cooling there. That would make the cold side cooler too. However those peletier modules are very inefficient, so you are probably better off with buying a cheap monoblock ac or even a split unit. Nice Video though :)
Fit the cool side behind a bldc pedestal fan , give proper duct out to hot side with a mini 12v fan which leads to a window frame as seen in portable AC's also add water cooling for the hot side.
Don't intend to cool the whole room instead sit besides the fan and it should provide enough cooling near the main fan.
One thing- you should try to power the outside fan with a little bit more voltage with DCDC step up converter to increase an air flow through the heatsinks. This will deffinitively help a lot. The maxximum temperature outside in your country is probably 35c so when the heatsinks has 40c ( only if they are cooled enough ) the temps of the cold side will be somewhere around 10-12c, with fan enabled, maybe 20 at worst. And last but not least, i will add not one but all 3 fans outside and left the side holes open to help hot air escape much more easily. This is only my opinion what you could've done better. 200W of " cooling " is enough to cool 20m2 room 2-3 degrees lower as it is outside. But i will be using more than 4 modules, maybe 8 or 12 to get 600W of cooling and i will add one big fat alluminium heatsink to the hot side and maybe 4 fans to keep every TEC in a outside temperature range. And for the cold side i will also add one big allu heatsink and one 120mm fan. Outside fans will be also 120mm with DCDC set to 14V instead of 12 , more airflow, more cooling on the other side
Yes, these upgrades will definitely improve the cooling.
This video was my first attempt at building an air con with Peltier modules. I will build a new and improved version with more Peltier modules, bigger heatsinks, bigger fans, better window panel (maybe with the window semi-closed).
But it will take time to order all the components and build it, so it will probably be ready next summer :)
@@Sorin_DIY Just use the same one, but have fans blowing (pulling and pushing air- 4 total fans) from the sides and use 2 hoses to get/excaust the air from outside while keeping the window mostly closed
Liked the video, love the cat. Also, I bet I have more of those CPU coolers than you do!! LOL I scrap old computers for parts like those, the fans, CD/DVD drives, and all sorts of other stuff. I like building things just like you do.
Thanks Sorin for experimenting again with Peltier panels. I was always fascinated with Peltier modules, but never had opportunity to solve the heat issue properly and keeping energy consumption low compared to other already available devices on market. Thanks to heat pumps (also small ones), there are plenty of choices out there for heating or cooling and their prices are also dropping. Therefore, Peltier panels probably will stay forgotten for another 100 years :)
Maybe you could do an experiment with a little solar panel (I know a lot of ampere would be needed and easily it can become unreasonably expensive project) and a small heating module made of Peltier panels for winter. This way it could be completely green solution, if feasible.
Looks effective, I wonder if running the chambers with a low pressure fan configuration would help achieve better thermal efficiency?
Thank you for being the real deal and showing the truth.
I loved this video! Thank you so much!!
I loved your cat's action supplementing your project as a partner.❤
i like the supervisor cat. fun and honest video. prevent people from wasting money on non reality assumption and claim .