Druids actually get a bump in power in Planes of power they can sub into a CH chain when numbers are low, they do significantly better healing than shamans at that point, also most raids will be running Blessing of the 9 plus symbol over Virtue because the 2 combined are more HP, and all the casters in raid want the mana regen. Solid A tier during PoP / LDON. which are both group/raid focused content, where druids shine.
There is just a stigma that most old school players carry around about the class like old luggage because they were killed as teenagers outside of a druid ring after a silvermist wolf aggro them. Between the changes to charm and their dismiss line of nukes they are also solid S tier in Classic through Velious on TLP, able to keep up with both necro and enchanters in terms of solo capability. ON wannabe classic servers like quarm and p99 druids are nowhere near as strong, and no one really wants them in groups because of the unwarranted stigma they have been carrying around since actual 1999.
@@elevatormusicirelia9043the reason we don’t want druids in groups is because they act like they solo 99% of the time. The leave abruptly, don’t attempt to find replacements, and seem afk all the time. An actively played druid that is considerate is fine, but they are rare.
Good guide! Although on the Shaman.. in the right situation they can be super powerful. Basically, you want to put together the group. Get a solid tank and maybe a healer, depends on your tank there.. then load the group out with Melee DPS and buff the heck out of them. They will grind up mobs like a wood-chipper on nitrous. Since the shaman doesn't have any mana regen for others - maximize their effectiveness by getting Melee DPS that doesn't need mana regen as much as stat buffs and haste. This can be really effective with Rangers, Rogues, Monks, and Pets can benefit a bunch from those stats too. Plus, when you buff up your melee like that - they will be wanting you in the group / willing to group up with you all the time. It requires attention and good mana management though to keep that all rolling. I would find the same players day after day and they would be like, "Hell yeah, I'll group!"
Druids are stronger than the video suggests. Druid debuffs are very underrated. They don't just reduce armor and fire or cold resistances, they also reduce the attack stat of a mob. Where a shaman slows a mob, fewer hits per minute, a druid reduces the amount of damage per hit. There is an old post out there on the internet. Where tests were done to determine if the druid attack debuffs were worth it or not. The numbers resulting from the damage parces suggested that druid attack debuffs reduce damage by very close to the same percentage as a shaman slow. The drawback is that you need to be able to land fire spells. I am running a druid on the Aradune server (currently in the Omens of War expansion 2021/11/22), and once my attack debuff is on a mob the damage on the tank is smooth and predictable. It becomes very easy to heal and still throw damage without chewing through mana. Also, don't forget about the damage shields. Very low mana cost for maintenance and the wrath of the wild alternate advancement allows for a damage shield with some extra ump every 4 minutes.
All the priest classes are strong, druid just doesn't get as much love because most do not understand what it brings to a group. I'd place the druid at tottering between A and B tier throughout the expansions. Druids are consistently strong healers, with desirable debuffs, moderate damage capabilities, good damage shields, and an often forgotten escape route via the exodus ability or succor spell line. The drawbacks of the druid are the lack of good agro reduction and being the squishiest of the priest classes. if you draw too much aggro or if your tank is under-geared your only defense is the Oaken Guard spell line once omens of war opens up, but once that buff is down you better hope the tank has it under control or you very well may die.
Played Druid since 99... it's sad how hard you have to prove your worth to a group. And like you said, it's all ignorance from the playerbase who has no idea what Druids can do. The quick agro generation with Flamelick, and roots even make them a competent CCer if the camp has a little room to work. Plus the solid clickies from Kunark era, and they can toss out mana free DPS while still doing their heals.
Controlling aggro as a druid in a group requires a little experience. That’s why I don’t stack DOT’s quickly as I did when I was new to the class and carry nice root spells in case of emergencies.
As a wizard main TLP Classic - C tier - no mana Regen for groups. Belly casters suck Kunark - same as classic Velious -B tier -start to get mana regen, belly casters and mana drain mobs hurt raid effectiveness. SoL - S tier - focus and aa are huge. Top DPS in raids and sustainable group DPS. PoP till OoW - same reasons for SoL. After OoW they drop because spells don't scale with melee weapons.
I agree, especially in PoP, they have wicked dps in raids (also great in groups, more so with knight tanks due to superior aggro gen). My fav group tank with wiz is Pal because of not only superior aggro gen out of all three tanks but the stuns are nice saves. I topped most parses on my wiz in PoP raids, only sometimes getting beaten by monks, which are probably better overall dps wise. Nothing beats a monk during that era, but if their discs are down, wizzies can easily top charts if they are smart, or if the fights aren’t so long as to burn down your entire mana pool.
Great video. Big fan of the breakdowns. I'd be curious to see more in-depth thoughts on the state of each class per expansion if you're looking to make a video series. Perhaps spitball ideas with some guildies/friends on classes where your knowledge is more lacking. Figured I'd throw this out there as there is a new TLP looking to launch this October that will end in the PoP era giving you some time to prep. For the comments section lurkers: What are your tier lists for classes in Luclin/PoP?
I would never turn down a shaman for group unless maybe we already had a shaman. They mix well for duo's and trio's too. You can't always get a full group or maybe you just want to farm a specific mob. I duo'd my chanter with a shaman in trilogy times and we ran shop.
In modern-day expansions Clerics have not been S tier since Shamans got the AE Rain heal. Clerics can and have been replaced by shamans entirely in raids, and in groups
Pretty good list, but as someone that usually mains shaman they definitely do not stay the same power level throughout all expansions. In classic I would put them around a C+ or a B-, they're kinda mediocre but the dot revamp keeps them a bit more relevant than say compared to P99. In Kunark I'd move shamans up to a B since they get really important spells in that expansion. In Velious I'd keep Shamans at B. In Luclin however shamans really benefit a lot from AAs and the slower combat so I'd move them up to an A. It just gets better in PoP with the introduction of more great AAs, really impactful spells, and some really powerful equipment like Time's Antithesis. By PoP I'd rank shamans as S tier. But in GoD I'd drop shamans back down to an A or even B since the high damage / low HP design of that expansion is the opposite of what shamans want.
I would put necros at D in PoP. Their dots fall way (way) behind at that point and there aren't enough undead. They can easily solo in Plane of Fire and shit, but relative to other dps they are by far the worst for group and raids in PoP. Even mindwrack becomes irrelevant pretty fast with most PoP mobs/bosses having "no mana".
I was top DPS as a necro in PoP on mutliple progression servers in top guilds. IF your necro isn't at or near the VERY top dps, then that necro sucks or is lazy.
As a guy who mained Necro from launch and tends to keep going back I think your rating on them is pretty spot on. Definatly high effort but high reward class. My only note would be that as the game goes on Necro's just get stronger and stronger on raid targets. Their DOT's get resisted really bad in raids in Classic and Kunark but then things start to open up after that and a Necro who is trying will be really high on the DPS charts for raid targets. Plus your healers don't need to pay them any mind.
I agree with your assessment of the magician and bard. I played from velius all the way to gates of discord maining magician and bard. Magician fell off super hard at high levels and bard just got better and better the more AAA points you got. Wish i had more experience with more classes I started a necromancer before i stopped playing and was really enjoying it.
Shamans have the best slow, also they can take the dmg from mobs that resist slow or they could be Ogres and have stun immunity while slowing. Enchanters get one resist and they're dead sometimes, its more important to have them land tash so the shamans can get malo/slow going. I think you undervalued the shaman.
As a career Enchanter, they are definitely in the right class, but you need to mention that they are probably the toughest class to play well. When you're raiding you're either sitting on your ass buffing or the whole raid rests on your shoulders to pull off a miracle or two. I enjoy that aspect, but others might like to take a bathroom break once in a while (with a pet that can tear your ass apart, breaks are few).
The major problem I have with your rating on NEC for Omens is that along with SHM they are the only classes that can farm all their runes by themselves.
I am currently playing a druid on the Yelinak TLP and I can tell you that soloing is pretty easy for me. The only place I struggle is Vexed and most classes cannot solo there. All in all I disagree with your Virtue comment over 9. Every caster and hybrid dps asks me for 9(ranger/lbl/wiz/mag/necro) our 4 raid debuffs are actually really good. I would rate them B after Velious. In OoW we also get a rez(not the AA) 90% I think. My friend told me shaman/druid got one on his last tlp for OoW.
This is the best guide like this. “People are just gonna ask you why aren’t you a warrior”. “You just have to accept you aren’t as cool as a warrior”. Gold. Facts.
I had fun on my berserker playing with a rogue for dps king in dreadspire raids. I started beating him when i added the +6 dmg aug to my epic 2.0. I had to fight a paladin for the 2h dmg aug. Its sad it took the loot council so long to get it right.
I think you underestimate mage DPS potential in PoP. It's tough, but with Foci, Pet Buff gloves from VT or PoP, and taking Evocation and spamming FoT .... you will wreck some face. Aggro is always an issue.. I've had some luck with getting an enchanter to save their visages for me. Higher skill cap to be "just" or "almost" as good as a wizard / ranger .. but the class is much more fun.
Like you mentioned, I found aggro to be my limiting factor in the eras around PoP. I'd have to sit on my hands at times or get summoned. If aggro wasn't such an issue, I think they would be top tier DPS in these eras. Also, the fact that this is before a damage meter made aggro a bit of a mystery.
I started playing the latest TLP with a Druid, because the class fantasy and design really appealed to me the most out of all the classes I tried. Seeing that it doesn't get better is kind of disheartening.
Resists for Raid are key... Weird how you took off for bard for solo but not for cleric. If you have a grading system then you have to apply it across the board or it doesn't make sense. If you are a caster worth your salt you get Druid buff/Symbol as a caster. This is an odd list. For someone who raised hard-core for years m, this list sounds like someone who doesn't actually have that much endgame experience.
That was my take too. I'd say at least half of what he suggested was just flat wrong. Mixed in with that were plenty of opinions that don't have anything to do with actual class power. Like "shadowknights are considered lame" - what universe does this guy live in?
My adjustments: Clerics are early S but by Luclin the other priest classes usurp them in groups considerably and force them down to A/A+ going to B+/A by late PoP. In raids they are always S tier but similar to Zerkers that shouldn't impact their overall ranking. On Druids I almost disagreed with them going down to D tier for the 3 expansion stretch but those expansions suck so bad on giving them the space they need to work I think it's probably correct. Enchanter I think stays B tier in OoW, they are still quite good at charming here and shined a lot in riftseekers as well as on certain raid targets (OMM). Knights I think you're about right. Shaman, I think B is right early but by Luclin/PoP they are monsters with near endless mana and a massive bag of tricks for solo, group, and raid. I think they are A in Velious, S in Luclin/PoP, and maybe LDoN then probably A again for the rest as slow mitigation becomes a much bigger issue in those last 2 expansions than it was when it came in during PoP. Oh also Tiny Terror is in the running for single best raid spell of all time if you consider longevity. I won't disagree with RNG/ROG/WIZ since I played them very little in those eras, and I think your war is close to right though I would lower them to A in PoP as they do still have some aggro issues but it is greatly improved and by the end of PoP they are doing pretty well. (Double-dipping Aggro procs in LDoN helped a lot with snapping aggro right away and holding it). Anyways this is my perspective from playing Live during the era not TLP so YMMV.
B on shamans ??? This class is at least A all the time and i would say S to most expansions. Best slowers is the argument here. Also 2nd best dotter and best melee buffer.
At no point, in any expansion are mages anywhere close to a “c” tier. Mages grow in luclin like all casters with the introduction of mounts and spell focus items, and pet power is dramatically effected by pet toys/summons and AA.. pet focus becomes easy to acquire, huge dps swarm as, pet lay on hands etc… your mage evaluation is way off. If anything they are weaker in veilous pre aa/spell focus.
Hard to believe Rangers are rated as high as you think they are at least through PoP. I mained one all the way through PoP during the original run of EQ back in the day and Rangers, at least on Brell, were considered one of the worst classes and generally were always the last chosen for any group. Enchanters are my favorite but your spot on with your rating. Once the charming gets massively nerfed, the class loses much of what made it fun in my opinion. Your Shaman rating is pretty spot on as well, a very well rounded class though I hated the mechanic behind cannibalize at least until the spell gets powerful enough you can stop that stupid canni dance. I also agree with your Shadowknight rating but with a strong caveat. That only hold those rating IF you are well geared. Shadowknight was my first EQ character but I just had a small guild of friends and we couldn't actually do much raiding, as such, I found my SK very, very weak.
Rangers are listed as A tier and Shaman as B tier, that's the end of this video's credit. Sorry not sorry, there are opinions everywhere but rangers fall off HARD after PoP and don't return until very very late into the game and even then they're never top DPS again they just have the useful MGB Auspice buff, meanwhile Shaman may be the single most broken class in Everquest right alongside Shadowknights.
I agree on Rizlona i run 2 accts but i have the paladin who is pretty boss outside of raid. and my backup box character running with the plugin is my shaman, those buffs once we got into Omens of War are stupid overpowered, and the epic is one of if not the best 2.0 in game. It turns a squad of melee goons into a squad of freaking hercules for 1 minute and is up 2 minutes after it goes down. I rarely have a problem duoing stuff that I want to do with these 2. I don't even bother turning on my Shaman's melee, if i actually mained the shaman in raid I'd easily be a damn superstar. They are so versatile and cool.
oh and side note once you get the aa canni and the ancient canni's from GoD and better yet OoW they are hard pressed to run out of mana in a raid situation unless the mob has a mana drain.
Epic makes them perfect tier. One healer and buffer for a melee group or raid DPS group. Don't even have to heal in between 3 min clicks with a suitable tank in groups for lesson burn after raids.
I don't understand why a half elf warrior would be alpha. Is it ironic ? Most people keep saying the only way to go warrior is ogre because of the racial frontal stun immunity. ..And about warriors, most people say that they are weaker tanks than hybrids in early expansions. i disagree. I have played a ranger ( wood elf), a paladin ( high elf) and a warrior ( dark elf) up to level 50 on classic on three different tlps without boxing, only relying on other 's heals. I found the warrior to be the most solid tank of all ( in terms of stress about dying or keeping the aggro) , but all three could do the job np.
i dont think youve ever played with a geared zerker with aas can easily tank snare and stuns are great threat. no idea why you think glass cannon high hp good defense being chain and best soloer in game in wide area zones. 200 range instant 95% snare good range damage can solo almost anything. Zerker cant solo melee but they are a range melee hybrid do most dmg melee but aas and abilities in later expansions jus make them better at range Also all melee want their aura and group abilities. Also burns work very well on named in groups. Also fyi charm pets get more dmg hiher level so of course RSS have moe hps but they do more damage just like highest zone in any expansion. Mezz is needed in RSS i dont know what group would want to deal wih a lot of RSS mobs so mezz alone Normal charm can charm 69 ancient 70. Ancient spells are not hard to get so jus find a ench who can charm there and if you are an ench still high chance o fbeing invited or buffs and meaa. CAn also kill OMM with 6 enchnters so OoW they are even more needed in raids. Completely forgot about beastlord savagery and raid wide hp an mana regen 200 mana regen ccccccchas turned the tide many times.A lot of bad information given out. Also why would a wood elf be a alpha i mean ogres have stun immunity wood elves have low hp and only an idiot would start clssic as a wood elf warrior. i may send a wood elf warrior a question why they made a war but i wouldn't bow wood elf war would be last choice in a group or raid until SoL when str and sta would max out whatever race you are Ogres would still be better stun immunity I may bow to a wood elf 50 just for the achievement of making it to max level a a wood elf. A lot of good info but a lot of bad info.
To those wondering, don't take this comparison to heart. There's a ton of misinformation and conjecture. I love seeing EQ content on TH-cam and wish there was a lot more. But it'd also be great if that content was more accurate =/ (I wish I had time to re-listen to the whole video and write down every error - I get that it's not fair for me to say "You're wrong" and then not offer any supporting information. Sadly, I just don't have the time to do it.)
@@tren380 Every other thing he said was wrong. I don't have time to write it all up. I only had time to give a warning. He means well, but doesn't really understand classes across the early game.
Wizards and SK are A tier through Velious but Shaman are B? riiiiiight. Wizards are completely useless before Luclin - except to be a Port b*tch. SK are 99% useless. lame DPS - even their HT gets resisted on bosses., any Warr with average proc weapons and a group that arent 12 year olds or adderol junkies will outtank them. SK have zero utility, possibly to drag corpses on a wipe? ok fine. Paladins atleast get a stackable raid buff but worthless as tanks except for your CoM or KC group - still a Warr would be better cuz it actually has a future. dont ever play a SK or Pal pre-Luclin. Shamann are A/S tier man cmon. Enc are buffing and CC on raids and charming in groups.... Shaman can solo WW named dragons and have essential stacking buffs.... Shaman Slow is the best heal in the game. oh ya, ever heard of Torpor? weird list
![Exactly How Luclin Works In EverQuest [TLP]](/img/n.gif)
Follow along here: www.eqprogression.com/wp-content/uploads/Misc/Class-Comparison-Chart.jpg
Druids actually get a bump in power in Planes of power they can sub into a CH chain when numbers are low, they do significantly better healing than shamans at that point, also most raids will be running Blessing of the 9 plus symbol over Virtue because the 2 combined are more HP, and all the casters in raid want the mana regen. Solid A tier during PoP / LDON. which are both group/raid focused content, where druids shine.
There is just a stigma that most old school players carry around about the class like old luggage because they were killed as teenagers outside of a druid ring after a silvermist wolf aggro them. Between the changes to charm and their dismiss line of nukes they are also solid S tier in Classic through Velious on TLP, able to keep up with both necro and enchanters in terms of solo capability. ON wannabe classic servers like quarm and p99 druids are nowhere near as strong, and no one really wants them in groups because of the unwarranted stigma they have been carrying around since actual 1999.
@@elevatormusicirelia9043the reason we don’t want druids in groups is because they act like they solo 99% of the time. The leave abruptly, don’t attempt to find replacements, and seem afk all the time. An actively played druid that is considerate is fine, but they are rare.
@@deathknizzle Confirmed you were touched by a druid.
Good guide! Although on the Shaman.. in the right situation they can be super powerful. Basically, you want to put together the group. Get a solid tank and maybe a healer, depends on your tank there.. then load the group out with Melee DPS and buff the heck out of them. They will grind up mobs like a wood-chipper on nitrous. Since the shaman doesn't have any mana regen for others - maximize their effectiveness by getting Melee DPS that doesn't need mana regen as much as stat buffs and haste. This can be really effective with Rangers, Rogues, Monks, and Pets can benefit a bunch from those stats too. Plus, when you buff up your melee like that - they will be wanting you in the group / willing to group up with you all the time.
It requires attention and good mana management though to keep that all rolling.
I would find the same players day after day and they would be like, "Hell yeah, I'll group!"
Damn... I wish I had made a Wood elf Warrior ! ;)
Druids are stronger than the video suggests.
Druid debuffs are very underrated. They don't just reduce armor and fire or cold resistances, they also reduce the attack stat of a mob. Where a shaman slows a mob, fewer hits per minute, a druid reduces the amount of damage per hit.
There is an old post out there on the internet. Where tests were done to determine if the druid attack debuffs were worth it or not. The numbers resulting from the damage parces suggested that druid attack debuffs reduce damage by very close to the same percentage as a shaman slow. The drawback is that you need to be able to land fire spells.
I am running a druid on the Aradune server (currently in the Omens of War expansion 2021/11/22), and once my attack debuff is on a mob the damage on the tank is smooth and predictable. It becomes very easy to heal and still throw damage without chewing through mana.
Also, don't forget about the damage shields. Very low mana cost for maintenance and the wrath of the wild alternate advancement allows for a damage shield with some extra ump every 4 minutes.
All the priest classes are strong, druid just doesn't get as much love because most do not understand what it brings to a group. I'd place the druid at tottering between A and B tier throughout the expansions.
Druids are consistently strong healers, with desirable debuffs, moderate damage capabilities, good damage shields, and an often forgotten escape route via the exodus ability or succor spell line.
The drawbacks of the druid are the lack of good agro reduction and being the squishiest of the priest classes. if you draw too much aggro or if your tank is under-geared your only defense is the Oaken Guard spell line once omens of war opens up, but once that buff is down you better hope the tank has it under control or you very well may die.
Played Druid since 99... it's sad how hard you have to prove your worth to a group. And like you said, it's all ignorance from the playerbase who has no idea what Druids can do.
The quick agro generation with Flamelick, and roots even make them a competent CCer if the camp has a little room to work. Plus the solid clickies from Kunark era, and they can toss out mana free DPS while still doing their heals.
Controlling aggro as a druid in a group requires a little experience. That’s why I don’t stack DOT’s quickly as I did when I was new to the class and carry nice root spells in case of emergencies.
As a wizard main TLP
Classic - C tier - no mana Regen for groups. Belly casters suck
Kunark - same as classic
Velious -B tier -start to get mana regen, belly casters and mana drain mobs hurt raid effectiveness.
SoL - S tier - focus and aa are huge. Top DPS in raids and sustainable group DPS.
PoP till OoW - same reasons for SoL.
After OoW they drop because spells don't scale with melee weapons.
I agree, especially in PoP, they have wicked dps in raids (also great in groups, more so with knight tanks due to superior aggro gen). My fav group tank with wiz is Pal because of not only superior aggro gen out of all three tanks but the stuns are nice saves.
I topped most parses on my wiz in PoP raids, only sometimes getting beaten by monks, which are probably better overall dps wise. Nothing beats a monk during that era, but if their discs are down, wizzies can easily top charts if they are smart, or if the fights aren’t so long as to burn down your entire mana pool.
Thanks for all your youtube content and your site! Great info!
Great video. Big fan of the breakdowns.
I'd be curious to see more in-depth thoughts on the state of each class per expansion if you're looking to make a video series. Perhaps spitball ideas with some guildies/friends on classes where your knowledge is more lacking. Figured I'd throw this out there as there is a new TLP looking to launch this October that will end in the PoP era giving you some time to prep.
For the comments section lurkers:
What are your tier lists for classes in Luclin/PoP?
Shadow knight can heal group :) my bites in OOW are constantly healing for 350's crits up to 1k :D Not to mention the 140ish mana for group
This is an amazing tier list, great work. Also very entertaining!
I played a teen cleric in Unrest and could not get a group because everyone there was a box setup. Things got much better after I left that area.
Like most of this, but Shaman is absolutely higher then B in most expacs...
I've played a shaman several times and they are definitely higher than B tier.
I would say s tier especially when luclin comes out. I remember during Gates of Discord and Omens of War I had infinite Mana during raids
I would never turn down a shaman for group unless maybe we already had a shaman. They mix well for duo's and trio's too. You can't always get a full group or maybe you just want to farm a specific mob. I duo'd my chanter with a shaman in trilogy times and we ran shop.
In modern-day expansions Clerics have not been S tier since Shamans got the AE Rain heal. Clerics can and have been replaced by shamans entirely in raids, and in groups
Pretty good list, but as someone that usually mains shaman they definitely do not stay the same power level throughout all expansions. In classic I would put them around a C+ or a B-, they're kinda mediocre but the dot revamp keeps them a bit more relevant than say compared to P99. In Kunark I'd move shamans up to a B since they get really important spells in that expansion. In Velious I'd keep Shamans at B. In Luclin however shamans really benefit a lot from AAs and the slower combat so I'd move them up to an A. It just gets better in PoP with the introduction of more great AAs, really impactful spells, and some really powerful equipment like Time's Antithesis. By PoP I'd rank shamans as S tier. But in GoD I'd drop shamans back down to an A or even B since the high damage / low HP design of that expansion is the opposite of what shamans want.
I would mention TA only as a nice bonus that most will not get.
Kunark to Velious, Druids were S tiers. There was nothing they couldn't do.
Mana regen is the weakness, they can't be S.
I would put necros at D in PoP. Their dots fall way (way) behind at that point and there aren't enough undead. They can easily solo in Plane of Fire and shit, but relative to other dps they are by far the worst for group and raids in PoP. Even mindwrack becomes irrelevant pretty fast with most PoP mobs/bosses having "no mana".
I was top DPS as a necro in PoP on mutliple progression servers in top guilds. IF your necro isn't at or near the VERY top dps, then that necro sucks or is lazy.
You're probably just brain dead and can't remember. @@Storbuki
As a guy who mained Necro from launch and tends to keep going back I think your rating on them is pretty spot on. Definatly high effort but high reward class. My only note would be that as the game goes on Necro's just get stronger and stronger on raid targets. Their DOT's get resisted really bad in raids in Classic and Kunark but then things start to open up after that and a Necro who is trying will be really high on the DPS charts for raid targets. Plus your healers don't need to pay them any mind.
I agree with your assessment of the magician and bard. I played from velius all the way to gates of discord maining magician and bard. Magician fell off super hard at high levels and bard just got better and better the more AAA points you got. Wish i had more experience with more classes I started a necromancer before i stopped playing and was really enjoying it.
Shamans have the best slow, also they can take the dmg from mobs that resist slow or they could be Ogres and have stun immunity while slowing. Enchanters get one resist and they're dead sometimes, its more important to have them land tash so the shamans can get malo/slow going. I think you undervalued the shaman.
Agreed. Dots are not bad either.
They are a dime a dozen though because every monk boxes a shaman
@@Melchior11 monk here. I box a cleric, not a shaman.
As a career Enchanter, they are definitely in the right class, but you need to mention that they are probably the toughest class to play well. When you're raiding you're either sitting on your ass buffing or the whole raid rests on your shoulders to pull off a miracle or two. I enjoy that aspect, but others might like to take a bathroom break once in a while (with a pet that can tear your ass apart, breaks are few).
I think chanter should be A/B for OOW. They speed up everything so much. Doing rift seekers early wasn't fun without one
This is great! reminds me of long walks in BoT- Kinadil Sk on some server ;)
The major problem I have with your rating on NEC for Omens is that along with SHM they are the only classes that can farm all their runes by themselves.
I am currently playing a druid on the Yelinak TLP and I can tell you that soloing is pretty easy for me. The only place I struggle is Vexed and most classes cannot solo there. All in all I disagree with your Virtue comment over 9. Every caster and hybrid dps asks me for 9(ranger/lbl/wiz/mag/necro) our 4 raid debuffs are actually really good. I would rate them B after Velious. In OoW we also get a rez(not the AA) 90% I think. My friend told me shaman/druid got one on his last tlp for OoW.
This is the best guide like this. “People are just gonna ask you why aren’t you a warrior”. “You just have to accept you aren’t as cool as a warrior”. Gold. Facts.
Im ready for that enchanter warrior hybrid class.. =)
What would you say are the rarest classes in the p99 era? The couple that people just play the very least and you don’t see around that much?
Almost no one plays Rogue during Classic or Kunark. Mainly because Monks are over-tuned and their bare fists are equivalent to Plane of Time weapons.
bard S+ tier for movement speed alone :D
Plus everyone wants to be a rock star
I know I'm late to the video by months but I would like to add beastlords get a mana regen
awesome video thanks
This was a fun video.
I had fun on my berserker playing with a rogue for dps king in dreadspire raids. I started beating him when i added the +6 dmg aug to my epic 2.0.
I had to fight a paladin for the 2h dmg aug. Its sad it took the loot council so long to get it right.
Clearly a monk item
I think you underestimate mage DPS potential in PoP. It's tough, but with Foci, Pet Buff gloves from VT or PoP, and taking Evocation and spamming FoT .... you will wreck some face. Aggro is always an issue.. I've had some luck with getting an enchanter to save their visages for me. Higher skill cap to be "just" or "almost" as good as a wizard / ranger .. but the class is much more fun.
Like you mentioned, I found aggro to be my limiting factor in the eras around PoP. I'd have to sit on my hands at times or get summoned. If aggro wasn't such an issue, I think they would be top tier DPS in these eras. Also, the fact that this is before a damage meter made aggro a bit of a mystery.
I started playing the latest TLP with a Druid, because the class fantasy and design really appealed to me the most out of all the classes I tried. Seeing that it doesn't get better is kind of disheartening.
I would put Bards at A tier in classic and S tier in PoP they really go supersaiyan
Solid breakdown.
rip cat bois
Trueisms
Rogue is D to F tier unless you have can get a group asap. If you like waiting in LFG this is the class for you.
Resists for Raid are key... Weird how you took off for bard for solo but not for cleric. If you have a grading system then you have to apply it across the board or it doesn't make sense. If you are a caster worth your salt you get Druid buff/Symbol as a caster. This is an odd list. For someone who raised hard-core for years m, this list sounds like someone who doesn't actually have that much endgame experience.
That was my take too. I'd say at least half of what he suggested was just flat wrong. Mixed in with that were plenty of opinions that don't have anything to do with actual class power. Like "shadowknights are considered lame" - what universe does this guy live in?
My adjustments:
Clerics are early S but by Luclin the other priest classes usurp them in groups considerably and force them down to A/A+ going to B+/A by late PoP. In raids they are always S tier but similar to Zerkers that shouldn't impact their overall ranking.
On Druids I almost disagreed with them going down to D tier for the 3 expansion stretch but those expansions suck so bad on giving them the space they need to work I think it's probably correct.
Enchanter I think stays B tier in OoW, they are still quite good at charming here and shined a lot in riftseekers as well as on certain raid targets (OMM).
Knights I think you're about right.
Shaman, I think B is right early but by Luclin/PoP they are monsters with near endless mana and a massive bag of tricks for solo, group, and raid. I think they are A in Velious, S in Luclin/PoP, and maybe LDoN then probably A again for the rest as slow mitigation becomes a much bigger issue in those last 2 expansions than it was when it came in during PoP. Oh also Tiny Terror is in the running for single best raid spell of all time if you consider longevity.
I won't disagree with RNG/ROG/WIZ since I played them very little in those eras, and I think your war is close to right though I would lower them to A in PoP as they do still have some aggro issues but it is greatly improved and by the end of PoP they are doing pretty well. (Double-dipping Aggro procs in LDoN helped a lot with snapping aggro right away and holding it).
Anyways this is my perspective from playing Live during the era not TLP so YMMV.
Okay which of you guys are sending me hate mail?
As a rogue main, not I
Class breakdowns are spot on in my opinion, great resource right here
B on shamans ??? This class is at least A all the time and i would say S to most expansions.
Best slowers is the argument here.
Also 2nd best dotter and best melee buffer.
Shamans at minimum should be A tier in OOW just off 2.0 click alone, then S tier in TSS and beyond.
"A jack of all trades is a master of none, but is certainly better than a master of one." - Everquest Druid
Lol no
@@sterlingcampbell2116 lol yes
RIP Shaman grade fail
At no point, in any expansion are mages anywhere close to a “c” tier. Mages grow in luclin like all casters with the introduction of mounts and spell focus items, and pet power is dramatically effected by pet toys/summons and AA.. pet focus becomes easy to acquire, huge dps swarm as, pet lay on hands etc… your mage evaluation is way off. If anything they are weaker in veilous pre aa/spell focus.
Hard to believe Rangers are rated as high as you think they are at least through PoP. I mained one all the way through PoP during the original run of EQ back in the day and Rangers, at least on Brell, were considered one of the worst classes and generally were always the last chosen for any group. Enchanters are my favorite but your spot on with your rating. Once the charming gets massively nerfed, the class loses much of what made it fun in my opinion. Your Shaman rating is pretty spot on as well, a very well rounded class though I hated the mechanic behind cannibalize at least until the spell gets powerful enough you can stop that stupid canni dance. I also agree with your Shadowknight rating but with a strong caveat. That only hold those rating IF you are well geared. Shadowknight was my first EQ character but I just had a small guild of friends and we couldn't actually do much raiding, as such, I found my SK very, very weak.
I played on brell through Omens. Who was your ranger? Being bard I loved rangers for group action.
My bard was Buyen.
shm is S on every exp.
I feel like this guy plays a Rog
Rangers are listed as A tier and Shaman as B tier, that's the end of this video's credit. Sorry not sorry, there are opinions everywhere but rangers fall off HARD after PoP and don't return until very very late into the game and even then they're never top DPS again they just have the useful MGB Auspice buff, meanwhile Shaman may be the single most broken class in Everquest right alongside Shadowknights.
I agree on Rizlona i run 2 accts but i have the paladin who is pretty boss outside of raid. and my backup box character running with the plugin is my shaman, those buffs once we got into Omens of War are stupid overpowered, and the epic is one of if not the best 2.0 in game. It turns a squad of melee goons into a squad of freaking hercules for 1 minute and is up 2 minutes after it goes down. I rarely have a problem duoing stuff that I want to do with these 2. I don't even bother turning on my Shaman's melee, if i actually mained the shaman in raid I'd easily be a damn superstar. They are so versatile and cool.
oh and side note once you get the aa canni and the ancient canni's from GoD and better yet OoW they are hard pressed to run out of mana in a raid situation unless the mob has a mana drain.
Any updated list to latest expansion ?
obviously this guy never played monk pulling in vex thal
Shaman's are A in OOW with epic
Epic makes them perfect tier. One healer and buffer for a melee group or raid DPS group. Don't even have to heal in between 3 min clicks with a suitable tank in groups for lesson burn after raids.
J boot spam makes warrior aggro a non issue.
Shamans are meta start to end 🤣
Druids are s at start. No question, buff and ports alone. And next server thorns is only way to PL. Druid wins
Monk Main is EQ’s Hanzo Main
You are wrong bards get a haste from tunare
I can tell you main a warrior lmfao
I don't understand why a half elf warrior would be alpha. Is it ironic ? Most people keep saying the only way to go warrior is ogre because of the racial frontal stun immunity. ..And about warriors, most people say that they are weaker tanks than hybrids in early expansions. i disagree. I have played a ranger ( wood elf), a paladin ( high elf) and a warrior ( dark elf) up to level 50 on classic on three different tlps without boxing, only relying on other 's heals. I found the warrior to be the most solid tank of all ( in terms of stress about dying or keeping the aggro) , but all three could do the job np.
i dont think youve ever played with a geared zerker with aas can easily tank snare and stuns are great threat. no idea why you think glass cannon high hp good defense being chain and best soloer in game in wide area zones. 200 range instant 95% snare good range damage can solo almost anything. Zerker cant solo melee but they are a range melee hybrid do most dmg melee but aas and abilities in later expansions jus make them better at range Also all melee want their aura and group abilities. Also burns work very well on named in groups. Also fyi charm pets get more dmg hiher level so of course RSS have moe hps but they do more damage just like highest zone in any expansion. Mezz is needed in RSS i dont know what group would want to deal wih a lot of RSS mobs so mezz alone Normal charm can charm 69 ancient 70. Ancient spells are not hard to get so jus find a ench who can charm there and if you are an ench still high chance o fbeing invited or buffs and meaa. CAn also kill OMM with 6 enchnters so OoW they are even more needed in raids. Completely forgot about beastlord savagery and raid wide hp an mana regen 200 mana regen ccccccchas turned the tide many times.A lot of bad information given out. Also why would a wood elf be a alpha i mean ogres have stun immunity wood elves have low hp and only an idiot would start clssic as a wood elf warrior. i may send a wood elf warrior a question why they made a war but i wouldn't bow wood elf war would be last choice in a group or raid until SoL when str and sta would max out whatever race you are Ogres would still be better stun immunity I may bow to a wood elf 50 just for the achievement of making it to max level a a wood elf. A lot of good info but a lot of bad info.
so much wrong. some right. but a lot wrong
there is so much wrong with this comparison
To those wondering, don't take this comparison to heart. There's a ton of misinformation and conjecture. I love seeing EQ content on TH-cam and wish there was a lot more. But it'd also be great if that content was more accurate =/
(I wish I had time to re-listen to the whole video and write down every error - I get that it's not fair for me to say "You're wrong" and then not offer any supporting information. Sadly, I just don't have the time to do it.)
It’s easy to say “you’re wrong” and provide 0 reasons.
@@tren380 Every other thing he said was wrong. I don't have time to write it all up. I only had time to give a warning. He means well, but doesn't really understand classes across the early game.
Promise enchanted charm breaks too often I love enchanter but it's a pain in the ass
I liked the content of the video, but some of the opinions expressed were kinda toxic.
Wizards and SK are A tier through Velious but Shaman are B? riiiiiight. Wizards are completely useless before Luclin - except to be a Port b*tch. SK are 99% useless. lame DPS - even their HT gets resisted on bosses., any Warr with average proc weapons and a group that arent 12 year olds or adderol junkies will outtank them. SK have zero utility, possibly to drag corpses on a wipe? ok fine. Paladins atleast get a stackable raid buff but worthless as tanks except for your CoM or KC group - still a Warr would be better cuz it actually has a future. dont ever play a SK or Pal pre-Luclin.
Shamann are A/S tier man cmon. Enc are buffing and CC on raids and charming in groups.... Shaman can solo WW named dragons and have essential stacking buffs.... Shaman Slow is the best heal in the game. oh ya, ever heard of Torpor?
weird list
You ok? How’s your life going?
It’s “Loose-Lin” NOT “Luck-lin” your being laughed at for incorrectly pronouncing the moon. Your basically as Smart as a Monk
No, it's "Luck-lin."
Devs confirmed this in interviews. "I was in the room," Bill Fisher said when putting this to bed.
some really odd rankings... some of it makes sense but most of it is just wrong. SK is S in Classic? rofl. Shamans are B ? wtf this is a terrible list