I hate to see railfans harrased by the public. I was in Santa Barbara waiting for the Coast Starlight when some idiot said "I need a permit to film trains and that its California law" I ignored her and told her i do this for hobby and fun and that there is no law stating I can't film at a PUBLIC railroad station. We need to stand up for this community. Railfans4Life
He hd nothing better to do that day and was trying his very best to justify his pitiful job. Very sad. It too bad guys like this give the LEO world a BAD name.
You didn't stand up anything you're an idiot explain anything to the cops you answer questions to a cop you're not defending your rights or anyone else's you're you're an imbecile
I agree. We need to create some kind of movement of sorts to make non railfans and cops understand we are just filming trains for fun and how our hobby is harmless.
Nobody said it was illegal. Perhaps something else has happened to damage the railway equipment which they are seeking clues for their investigation. Being a belligerent jerk is not justified!
I too had a similar incident upon the Stevens Pass Tunnel on the BNSF RR. This was freshly after 911 and I was with my 90+ year old father in law. We all had cameras and we were obviously foamers. Yes we had trespassed on BNSF property to get the shot of the train coming out of the 7 mile tunnel. The officer asked for ID of which we complied. After 2 minutes of trying to be a tough King County sheriff he apologized saying is reasons were to ensure we were not terrorists trying to blow up the tunnel. But he did not stop there. He started sharing stories how he had to do an investigation in the tunnel because one engineer thought he saw a dead body in the tunnel. BNSF shut down the tunnel and purged it with fresh air, a 20 min. process. He drove in using a BNSF track pickup. It turned out to be nothing but a bag of grain. However even with the purge the air was very stale and not pleasant to breathe. The conversation turned out to be very enjoyable and I was glad to be "harassed". Too bad we don't have more cops like this
+Trevor Grott Dude, yeah, you gave him your id. So now you're entered into their computers. And who knows what new laws or background check protocols will come in the future in which this might have some repercussions? I understand what you mean about cooperation, and this is the first time I DIDNT cooperate. If a cop asked or told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it just because he 'asked'? Are cops allowed to ask Hispanics walking down the street for their papers? No. And they're not supposed to be able to require someone to produce ID just for taking photos (video) in public, either.
Even though this happened about 8 years ago, I'm sorry this happened to you. I hate how cops spend there time interrogating you instead of doing something even more important than this. This is why I'm scared to railfan the NEC right down the street from my house because the Baltimore County PD have a hangout right there and I don't want them thinking I'm going to do anything wrong.
I live in Toronto and regularly film GO Transit, I get stopped all the time by police, while not even on their property! I understand they are just doing there job, and I respect that, but this is just bullshit! Good on you for standing up to them!
If you don't give them the information, it falls into a similar situation with pleading the fifth amendment. You can absolutely withhold that information, but it makes you seem more guilty than if you just comply. An officer of the law can deem you non-compliant if you withhold your basic personal information and detain you for that alone, not to mention obstruction of justice and disorderly conduct.
@@PowerTrain611 yeah, let's take it to court & piss off both the DA and the Judge for bringing forth chickenshit cases like this to try. You're never going to convict and you're going to waste the court's time and money, not to mention the efforts of the p.d. and every other public official along the way. Move along, public servant.
@@nowake Mmm. except they can still arrest you for withholding personal information from them. If a cop is in a bad mood, he'll do whatever it takes to get you on his level of despair. you'd be surprised how far they'll go. If you don't have an endless supply of time and money, sitting in a holding cell until they have thoroughly searched your now confiscated belongings for your ID *begin sarcarsm* and any "weapons" or "drugs" you totally had on you before you got there *end sarcarsm* probably isn't in your best interest. Why bother to go through all this anyway when avoiding it is as simple as just giving the guy your fucking id card and telling him you're not on private property and filming trains isn't illegal? Everybody gets to go on with their day.
They must not have a lot of crime where you live LOL. I have only had one incident where Amtrak police question me what I was doing. Apparently the station closes after the last train comes through. I told her I did not see any hours, that I was sorry and that I would be leaving. Once I told her I was only filming trains and I was sorry, she was completely fine with it. She told me to take my time Gathering my equipment and to be safe. What she did is a perfect example of how they should act. With respect and courtesy. I returned the favor by doing the same
I understand the cop was just doing his job but asking you for ID was not necessarily because your ID don't tell you if your a criminal or not. Don't pay attention to these snowflakes in the comment section because you did nothing wrong because my friend loves to take pics of the light rail trains when he visits Baltimore. I support your 1st and 4th amendment as an American. Keep up the good work!!!
I recorded part of that encounter. At first I was nervous and I turned my camera off at first but then turned it back on. He gave me such a bad attitude that my father had to step in and ask why he was being so confrontational towards me. He then left me alone. Get this. When me and my father got off the train the driver yells to me "you have fun!?!?" I mean seriously come on! I'm also upset that I couldn't get any names or numbers to report them because I seriously would have.
I hate being harassed. Once I was by my local railroad crossing and some random guy pulls next to me and goes “What are you doing by the railroad tracks?” And I said: “Waiting for that train” which was about a good mile and a half from me going about 30 miles an hour. He says: “That’s dangerous! You can get killed!” And I just wish I could say “Hey Genius! I may be a teen, but I ain’t stupid!” Instead I just said: “I know sir” and he left. I hate how people look at railfans like were aliens or something
The guy in this video is a railroad police officer, which means he is basically a special agent and has jurisdiction in the entire state in which the railroad operates. Thats something a lot of railfans don't realize. Plus, if you get all defensive way to fast, it just makes the officer more annoyed and usually more suspicious of you. Im a former law enforcement explorer, and have friends that are RR Police. I agree that RR PD needs better training in dealing with railfans however.
As a train crew member myself for CVSR, the only time we would ever report anyone along the guidelines of something like this is if you were literally along our property (I.E. standing in the yard, on our equipment, etc.) without I or maybe a member in charge's expressed permission. But, you were just standing along a public road. Clearly the officer had little to no knowledge of merely the word, "trespassing" and was just simply trying to earn his monthly quota. Happens a hell of a lot in Baltimore; which is most definitely one of the many main reasons why I escaped to Valley View.
As long as your not obstructing traffic, both auto and train, and not causing damage, again to both the road and the track, I dont see whats wrong with rail-fanning honestly. He couldve simply went up to you, asked you what you were doing, said "OK Cool dont do anything illegal" and been on his marry way
***** yes! that is my argument. I have no problem with that at all. But I should not have to provide my license, which so many of these cops immediately request!
Sometimes rail fans are there at the right to report thieves stealing metal like pulling spikes and fish plates that can cause a derailment if it's not caught and reported in time. That's one of the reasons the railroad doesn't allow trespassers.
The moment before he approached you, he was thinking how his mommy never loved him and how he could never get his daddy's approval. Then ... "I think I will go over and F... with these people to show them how important I am."
This popped back up in my feed from your recent like of my past comment. I'm a police officer now and have 2nd hand embarrassment from this officers conduct.
Thanks. As I said in some other comments, I'm also embarrassed of my self. I would try to be much better-spoken and diplomatic if it ever happened again. We both should have done better.
Bad police work. By being a jerk and putting them immediately on defense, he totally lost his ability to determine whether or not they had nefarious intent. Instead, he could have simply approached and just asked questions that anyone curious person might ask. If you were bad guys, it would probably become clear within a few minutes of asking questions about photographing/videotaping trains. For example, a train fan is going to be able to tell you about the rolling stock and operations. A terrorist won’t likely have any of that more in-depth knowledge. No bad attitude, no asking for ID, no unconstitutional harassment. Instead a chance to interact with good people and build good relationships with the community is lost, as was the ability to confirm they don’t have any bad intentions.
Man that sucks. Here in NorCal the Union Pacific police is so nice they gave me and my friend a sicker that had the phone number for the UP police and a picture of a Gevo
Interesting to see this sort of thing is happening in the US too! This is happening more and more over here in the UK, particularly in London & the South East. With us, it's security staff that are more the issue rather than the police. It's really spoiling the hobby.
I have to imagine the dispatchers in these cases get these calls from cops and transit workers and must think, "what are you doing that you have so much spare time in your day that you have time to bother people." This makes no sense.
This is stupid. Taking pictures or video is not a crime. He can ask you why and you can answer if you'd like, but unless he had specific reason to further the investigation he should have just left. Cooperating is still in the best interest, but remember to go through the right channels to file a complaint if you need too.
It’s annoying when stuff like that happens. I’ve had Amtrak police tell me to back away from the tracks on the nec when I was on the platform of the Marc station and in sitting on the seat. Cops can be jerks sometimes
I've been stopped by RR police before, but got a different reaction than this cop gave you. Once he saw my scanner and camera, He figured I was a railfan witch I told him I am. We did talk and he gave me safety material to read and share. My guess is to why he approached me was that I was parked on an access road used by the RR, to which he had no objections on me using, as I still use the same spot to this day with no trouble.
I realize this is a couple of years ago. However, this still makes my blood boil. Your on public property, you are not causing any kind of commotion, other than what's inside some goofballs head. I'm sorry, I am a retired railroader and I do a lot of videoing and taking photos. I would never volunteer any more information than my first name. End of story.
This happened to me on February 21, 2022, when taking pictures of one of the GP9's in New Freedom PA, and fortunately, I didn't get in trouble. The Cops actually did enjoy learning and other railroad facts like GP and SD engines
I live in Baltimore and ride the Light Rail frequently. I've never seen them act like this. Over a train though, that's a bit excessive in my opinion. Wow, I didn't know the MTA police were THIS bored to investigate someone filming a train. Shame....
@@najthesavior4286 Sir, did you happen to notice the title of this video? It's called " MTA light rail and over active police ". Their agency is called the Maryland Transit Administration. So, MTA police is CORRECT!!! Have a wonderful day!!!
I talked to the County officer I know who is also a railfan. He said that since 9-11, law enforcement has been antsy about this. However, he said that this was not handled properly by the officer. That you were well within your legal rights to photograph, and to have such a snotty attitude by the cop was unprofessional, which apparently is not unusual for MTA cops. The officer told me that if it goes on too long, to ask if you are being detained. This behavior is not condoned by MTA management.
Technically speaking yes the MTA Police officer main responsibility is the transit system but MTA Maryland police is a full service department that can respond to calls that are close to them but leave it up to local jurisdictions
the police do have the right to ask for your identification even if you are not doing anything wrong. The United States Supreme Court ruled on this in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada. Refusing actually constitutes failure to obey a lawful order. Now, being a railfan and a railroad employee, why police want to "investigate" railfans is beyond me.
Honestly, I didn't know it was illegal to take pictures of trains. He did say, "I have individuals videotaping the light rail train" like it was a crime?
I agree with the guy taking the video. He wasn't breaking any laws, so ID should not be required. I do like the cop's answer when he asked why he was taking their pictures, "it's my hobby." That was pretty funny.
I’m a light rail operator and it’s all about security. Especially since 911 people take pastures and video to learn and figure out system operations and other details. Before planning terrible acts so don’t take it personal it’s about keeping people safe if you see something strange say something.
Dude, all you had to do is give him your I.D. I've been in this exact situation before (only I gave him my I.D.) and he took my name and asked me how long I was going to be there, just so if someone called me in as a "suspicious person" they would know its me. And the whole process took 2 minutes. Maybe cops wouldn't be so pissed off all the time if people would just cooperate with them.
People with cars can film from inside too and actually could hide dangerous things in the vehicle but no one even think abou it , but for some psychological reason dont know why a walking person becomes more suspicious and are more susceptible to harassment specially by untrained close minded little racist like this one..
Im glad it wasnt like that then , Very interesting you documented todays trains so young people 100 years from now might be able to enjoy your kool footage just like we watch vintage videos today..
An LEE is a program that opens up training and hands-on learning to teenagers on what its like to be a police officer, as at one point my goal was to become a railroad cop. At least here on the west coast, UP and BNSF, as well as Muni and BART police's jurisdiction extends in the same state of which they work. As I understand it, yes, this guy could pull you over and question you 15 miles from the railroad. He could also then get in trouble for not taking police action if he didn't.
That is so jacked up. Ive had two encounters with the police while railfanning. One at todds lane in rosedale. The cop was awesome and thoht it was a neat hobby, the other at jones road told me i had to leave. I was technically on csx property but i wasnt hurting anything. This guy was just a jerk. I think you handled it very well. Way to go
Assumed profiling for terrorism. If they record names, and a terrorist action or odd accident occurs with the commuter rail, these guys would be pulled in for questioning. Thus the photo. However the cop's response to that question was witty and well deserved.
Wow......Ahhh.....Cops are a bad thing these days...Especially that one, Some don't deserve there badges...I just started a new MTA series and I was in that same situation xD The cop that told me off was stupid, He told me that filming the Lightrail was "Illegal" LOL
TrainExpert8888 Really? When did that happen? After this incident, I received a letter from a Sargeant, or Commissioner, or whoever was the head of the MTA light rail authority - I can't remember his title - assuring me that as long as I wasn't trespassing, filming the trains was totally legal. Yes, cops do seem to be bad these days. 'Terrorism' and' Homeland Security' are drilled into their heads every minute, mix that with the type-A personality which is generally a pre-requisite for becoming a cop in the first place, and many seem to believe they have total authority to dictate to every citizen what he can and can't do, regardless of legalities.
I thought the officer might have been bored in his current assignment, perhaps that's why he harrassed you guy's to say, "stir the pot" and see what happens. I know this to be so, back in 1969, I was hitch-hiking in Eagle Rock, in the Los Angeles area, when a squad car pulled me over, and pushed me up against a wall searched me, threw my stuff on the sidewalk, and handcuffed me. Then after a few minutes, they released me, no apologies, no nothing, and left w/o saying another word. I picked up my stuff, and decided to walk to Hollywood Blvd., 3-1/2 miles away. I do not respect the LAPD anymore. Good video, we must all stand up for our rights, but be cautious at the same time.
I checked with my LEO that I know. He says that MTA RR police here in MD only have jurisdiction on RR property. So no, he can't show up at your house 15 miles away. If he did, the trouble he would get into would be overstepping his authority.
Amtrak has a BS photo policy. In a nutshell, they falsely claim that Amtrak stations are their private property, and only ticketed passengers can walk on the platform. I have been to Sturtevant and Plano stations, and both are completely accessible without any barriers stopping you. I have also been to Milwaukee Airport station, which is the same as the other two I mentioned, except you have to pay for parking. The claims Amtrak makes in their photo policy violate the 1st amendment, and some rebuilt stations are inaccesible by the public.
You should definitely report him! I've been approached by police a few times and they where polite and understanding. I only had one bad run-in and that wasn't even a cop. It was a Washington D.C. Metrorail worker that threatened to have security and police to break my camera and have me detained and for suspicious behavior. The only thing I was doing was filming out the front of the train. The worker even said that there was nothing interesting about trains and that he would have me detained.
When my family first moved to Yale Heights in 1964 and I had some nearby tracks for train watching, what later became the Goodwill store was a Western Auto distribution center and they were still receiving boxcar loads of goods. Probably the siding is still buried in the brush behind the building, if the bldg hasn't been razed.
Someone may have called it in. Sounds like the camera operator was being difficult. Just be nice and cooperative. But I guess some people can’t act in that way. The cop seemed like a gentleman to me.
As I said many times in the description and in the comments, there was no reason to ask for ID. There were no motor vehicles being operated. No trespassing. As Casa de Maryland has proven, the police cannot simply require identification without reason. Standing in public taking photos is not reason, also proven in courts. It's just poor, lazy police work.
In 1987, at Campbell Hall, NY, I ran into a very nasty Conrail cop that had a long lasting affect on me. The conversation started with him telling me, "you, get your shit and get over here". He continued to use profanity, swearing, and threaten me. He said, "your lucky you don't have a bullet in the back of your head". I was actually trespassing, waiting for an NYSW stack train in the pre dawn darkness. He stated they were having problems with people stealing lumber from the lumber loads. He probably thought he caught the culprit. He said, had I not had those cameras, I would be in jail right now. He was very effective, because it was a long time before I trespassed again.
That's just terrible luck, to have that happen to you more than once. You'd think they've run out of criminals, so they're going after railfans now. Thankfully, I haven't run into any cops like this here in St. Louis, but I imagine I will eventually. Great video to prove what's been happening.
What a stupid cop for doing that to you, id put him on administrative leave or fire him if I were his boss. That’s unprofessionalism right there, why in the freaking universe would a cop do that and ask for ID? That cop is absolutely crazy, and in my opinion, he didn’t have right or probable cause to do that to you in the traffic stop circumstance
Under normal circumstances, the officer taking YOUR picture is a violation , and should be subject to legal response, there a re numerous lawsuits for Police seizing your Pictureand entering it into their computers. if the Officer has grounds to arrest you then and only after the arrest do they get to take / seize your picture, and then NOT on their PERSONAL CELL / camera. Only cameras that are used & maintained for EVEDENCE collection may be ysed to take EVIDENCE PICTURES. file a FOIL request for those pictures and watch the police officer LIE and say they were not taken.
I hate when I have to leave from Truckspotting or Railfanning most of the time it is Truckspotting cause I live by a busy road and get trucks to honk a lot when I get ugly stares I get nervous that someone would call the cops on me so I go into my house and pray to have no police searching for me
Great post, you might find however after a very detailed examination of a DMV application for any type of ID, you have more requirements to show ID than you might realize. Hence the reason I don't have any DMV issued ID, because I don't agree to the terms on the application. Thanks for posting and setting a good example of being polite, calm and articulate. Kudos.
That isn't true. You are never required to proivide ID unless you are detained with reasonable suspicion and in many states you don't have to provide ID until you are under arrest.
AFreedomLovingTexan You are correct that you don't by law have to provide ID, you are also protected by the 4th amendment. However in CA when you sign a DMV application you waive 4th amendment protections and you also agree to present an ID anytime it is requested (the wording changed from 'required' to 'requested' a few years ago). An officer is under no obligation to detain you or arrest you before obliging you to produce ID. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution is a double edged sword, where the state may not impair contracts, even the bad ones such as a govco application.
coreyeib"You are correct that you don't by law have to provide ID, you are also protected by the 4th amendment. However in CA when you sign a DMV application you waive 4th amendment protections and you also agree to present an ID anytime it is requested (the wording changed from 'required' to 'requested' a few years ago). An officer is under no obligation to detain you or arrest you before obliging you to produce ID." Well, first of all something that is written on a paper you sign when you get your license doesn't overrule the constitution. Second if there is no law or penalty for not presenting your driver's license when asked how can you say that a person is obliged to show it? What happens if they don't? Third, those first two points don't really even matter because the Supreme Court has ruled in Delaware v. Prouse that the police can't demand your license without reasonable suspicion in addition the Terry v. Ohio ruling that the police cannot detain you without reasonable suspicion. In addition, the court makes clear that a person is not obligated to identify to police unless the are detained with reasonable suspicion and the particular state has a law requiring a person to identify when lawfully detained. Lastly, how do you think an officer would force you to identify yourself without detaining you first? If you aren't detained you can just walk away. So they would be like "show me your ID" and you would just walk away. They can't stop you from leaving (lawfully) without reasonable suspicion of a crime.
Can I ask you your name? Response: I don’t know you, how would I know your abilities? Do you have a date of birth? Response: I’m standing here, how do people enter this world? Dumb questions to strangers acting responsibly deserve non responsive feedback.
The majority of Police Officers have no regard for Constitutional Rights of Citizens. The area these fellows were videoing from appears to be public property. This officer's demanding ID was unlawful on account of no probable cause. Additionally, suspicion is not a crime. This cop was clearly fishing. Any detention or arrest in this case with no probable cause would be dismissed on several grounds. The railfans had every right to make a report to the agency of this, consult an attorney and file a complaint for civil rights violations against the officer and agency likely resulting in a damage award to the railfans. Court's have held videoing and photography from public areas is a Constitutionally protected activity under the First Amendment.
Some of you may remember the incident involving Christopher Fussell who was harassed buy Baltimore and MTA police. The ACLU was called in and MTA was publicly embarrassed by the negative coverage. The officers involved were disciplined for their behavior.
I hate to see railfans harrased by the public. I was in Santa Barbara waiting for the Coast Starlight when some idiot said "I need a permit to film trains and that its California law" I ignored her and told her i do this for hobby and fun and that there is no law stating I can't film at a PUBLIC railroad station. We need to stand up for this community. Railfans4Life
Caltrain912: You do have a permit........a written permit, signed by "govt officials", The Constitution!
110% agreed
He hd nothing better to do that day and was trying his very best to justify his pitiful job. Very sad. It too bad guys like this give the LEO world a BAD name.
You didn't stand up anything you're an idiot explain anything to the cops you answer questions to a cop you're not defending your rights or anyone else's you're you're an imbecile
I agree. We need to create some kind of movement of sorts to make non railfans and cops understand we are just filming trains for fun and how our hobby is harmless.
How is it illegal to film a train? I think this officer just got bored so he decided to pick on someone.
Nobody said it was illegal. Perhaps something else has happened to damage the railway equipment which they are seeking clues for their investigation. Being a belligerent jerk is not justified!
I love it how he keeps filming the trains right in front of the policeman. Awesome!
I did that once. We had to move, though. So once he told us we had to, I stopped filming.
I wish that they would realize railfans aren't breaking the law!! "Why are you taking our photos?" "For my hobby." Such a jerk.
This community deserves more respect!
"Why do you watch football?"
I too had a similar incident upon the Stevens Pass Tunnel on the BNSF RR. This was freshly after 911 and I was with my 90+ year old father in law. We all had cameras and we were obviously foamers. Yes we had trespassed on BNSF property to get the shot of the train coming out of the 7 mile tunnel. The officer asked for ID of which we complied. After 2 minutes of trying to be a tough King County sheriff he apologized saying is reasons were to ensure we were not terrorists trying to blow up the tunnel. But he did not stop there. He started sharing stories how he had to do an investigation in the tunnel because one engineer thought he saw a dead body in the tunnel. BNSF shut down the tunnel and purged it with fresh air, a 20 min. process. He drove in using a BNSF track pickup. It turned out to be nothing but a bag of grain. However even with the purge the air was very stale and not pleasant to breathe. The conversation turned out to be very enjoyable and I was glad to be "harassed". Too bad we don't have more cops like this
That officer misused his authority, and i loved how you kept your focus and still kept filming!!!
They never stop the real crime.
Well said!🌉
True. Look at what happened at the Capitol building
+Trevor Grott
Dude, yeah, you gave him your id. So now you're entered into their computers. And who knows what new laws or background check protocols will come in the future in which this might have some repercussions? I understand what you mean about cooperation, and this is the first time I DIDNT cooperate. If a cop asked or told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it just because he 'asked'? Are cops allowed to ask Hispanics walking down the street for their papers? No. And they're not supposed to be able to require someone to produce ID just for taking photos (video) in public, either.
Its true. It has happen to other people I know that take videos of trains.
Edgar Garcia what's true?
+Edgar Garcia So fucking what ?!
+Mr Spork
prove it
BaltimoreAndOhioRR your dad told me.
Even though this happened about 8 years ago, I'm sorry this happened to you. I hate how cops spend there time interrogating you instead of doing something even more important than this. This is why I'm scared to railfan the NEC right down the street from my house because the Baltimore County PD have a hangout right there and I don't want them thinking I'm going to do anything wrong.
Yep
Lol this is too funny
“Can I have it?”
“No.”
AND YOU GO BACK TO RECORDING THIS IS GOLD LOL
I live in Toronto and regularly film GO Transit, I get stopped all the time by police, while not even on their property!
I understand they are just doing there job, and I respect that, but this is just bullshit!
Good on you for standing up to them!
This cop makes all other cops look bad.. This guy would give his mom a ticket..
Why even give them information, your under no legal authority to do so.
Exactly the reason they gave information is cuz they're both imbeciles and sheep
Hiibel Vs. Nevada states that the officer has permission to ask for information.
If you don't give them the information, it falls into a similar situation with pleading the fifth amendment. You can absolutely withhold that information, but it makes you seem more guilty than if you just comply. An officer of the law can deem you non-compliant if you withhold your basic personal information and detain you for that alone, not to mention obstruction of justice and disorderly conduct.
@@PowerTrain611 yeah, let's take it to court & piss off both the DA and the Judge for bringing forth chickenshit cases like this to try. You're never going to convict and you're going to waste the court's time and money, not to mention the efforts of the p.d. and every other public official along the way. Move along, public servant.
@@nowake Mmm. except they can still arrest you for withholding personal information from them. If a cop is in a bad mood, he'll do whatever it takes to get you on his level of despair. you'd be surprised how far they'll go.
If you don't have an endless supply of time and money, sitting in a holding cell until they have thoroughly searched your now confiscated belongings for your ID *begin sarcarsm* and any "weapons" or "drugs" you totally had on you before you got there *end sarcarsm* probably isn't in your best interest.
Why bother to go through all this anyway when avoiding it is as simple as just giving the guy your fucking id card and telling him you're not on private property and filming trains isn't illegal? Everybody gets to go on with their day.
I couldnt stop laughing at 1:55 when he asks "Do you have a date of birth?" like no i dont have a date of birth.....
They must not have a lot of crime where you live LOL.
I have only had one incident where Amtrak police question me what I was doing. Apparently the station closes after the last train comes through. I told her I did not see any hours, that I was sorry and that I would be leaving. Once I told her I was only filming trains and I was sorry, she was completely fine with it. She told me to take my time Gathering my equipment and to be safe. What she did is a perfect example of how they should act. With respect and courtesy. I returned the favor by doing the same
I understand the cop was just doing his job but asking you for ID was not necessarily because your ID don't tell you if your a criminal or not. Don't pay attention to these snowflakes in the comment section because you did nothing wrong because my friend loves to take pics of the light rail trains when he visits Baltimore. I support your 1st and 4th amendment as an American. Keep up the good work!!!
Officer, WHAT SPECIFIC LAW am I breaking by standing in public taking pictures?
What, specifically, is ILLEGAL about my current conduct?
He got axed.
as far as they are concerned, everything. they try to come up with some excuse to lock you up for no reason at all.
unlawful surveillance.
"Why do you got to take our pictures?" Terrible question. You walked right into his response. Otherwise, will done.
The cop said he took your photo because "it's my hobby". I would have asked him why he's pursuing his hobby on the people's dime.
He was probably watching Breaking Bad, and figured you were researching when the train arrives at a certain point so you can take its Methylamine.
dont give some criminal an idea lol
I recorded part of that encounter. At first I was nervous and I turned my camera off at first but then turned it back on. He gave me such a bad attitude that my father had to step in and ask why he was being so confrontational towards me. He then left me alone. Get this. When me and my father got off the train the driver yells to me "you have fun!?!?" I mean seriously come on! I'm also upset that I couldn't get any names or numbers to report them because I seriously would have.
@Trevor Grott
And you need to learn the meaning of the word, "oblivious".
I hate being harassed. Once I was by my local railroad crossing and some random guy pulls next to me and goes “What are you doing by the railroad tracks?” And I said: “Waiting for that train” which was about a good mile and a half from me going about 30 miles an hour. He says: “That’s dangerous! You can get killed!” And I just wish I could say “Hey Genius! I may be a teen, but I ain’t stupid!” Instead I just said: “I know sir” and he left. I hate how people look at railfans like were aliens or something
The guy in this video is a railroad police officer, which means he is basically a special agent and has jurisdiction in the entire state in which the railroad operates. Thats something a lot of railfans don't realize. Plus, if you get all defensive way to fast, it just makes the officer more annoyed and usually more suspicious of you. Im a former law enforcement explorer, and have friends that are RR Police. I agree that RR PD needs better training in dealing with railfans however.
"Im just taking pictures, I'm a hobbiest" - officer overreaction
not really
As a train crew member myself for CVSR, the only time we would ever report anyone along the guidelines of something like this is if you were literally along our property (I.E. standing in the yard, on our equipment, etc.) without I or maybe a member in charge's expressed permission. But, you were just standing along a public road. Clearly the officer had little to no knowledge of merely the word, "trespassing" and was just simply trying to earn his monthly quota. Happens a hell of a lot in Baltimore; which is most definitely one of the many main reasons why I escaped to Valley View.
God's Country...Kloman Street. Right next to the gem stone Cherry Hill.
🤣
I was on vacation in San Antonio taking pictures and bike cops bum rushed me said
i was taking pictures TOURIST TAKING PICTURES UNLAWFUL!.
1:58 - 2:48
TRYNA CATCH THAT PIKACHU
As long as your not obstructing traffic, both auto and train, and not causing damage, again to both the road and the track, I dont see whats wrong with rail-fanning honestly. He couldve simply went up to you, asked you what you were doing, said "OK Cool dont do anything illegal" and been on his marry way
***** yes! that is my argument. I have no problem with that at all. But I should not have to provide my license, which so many of these cops immediately request!
Vic Reece that's how the cops near me are
Sometimes rail fans are there at the right to report thieves stealing metal like pulling spikes and fish plates that can cause a derailment if it's not caught and reported in time. That's one of the reasons the railroad doesn't allow trespassers.
First Amendment. You have EVERY right to take photos and video of the train from public.
The moment before he approached you, he was thinking how his mommy never loved him and how he could never get his daddy's approval. Then ... "I think I will go over and F... with these people to show them how important I am."
0:14 Bro the video is mainly the police telling him to stop filming trains, YET THE SAME OFFICER IS STANDING ON THE OTHER TRACK
Overall I don't agree with defunding the Police, but they definitely need to defund that Jackwagon crew...
A true railfan, always making sure he has the train in the shot. Good work!
This popped back up in my feed from your recent like of my past comment. I'm a police officer now and have 2nd hand embarrassment from this officers conduct.
Thanks. As I said in some other comments, I'm also embarrassed of my self. I would try to be much better-spoken and diplomatic if it ever happened again. We both should have done better.
Bad police work. By being a jerk and putting them immediately on defense, he totally lost his ability to determine whether or not they had nefarious intent. Instead, he could have simply approached and just asked questions that anyone curious person might ask. If you were bad guys, it would probably become clear within a few minutes of asking questions about photographing/videotaping trains. For example, a train fan is going to be able to tell you about the rolling stock and operations. A terrorist won’t likely have any of that more in-depth knowledge. No bad attitude, no asking for ID, no unconstitutional harassment. Instead a chance to interact with good people and build good relationships with the community is lost, as was the ability to confirm they don’t have any bad intentions.
Man that sucks. Here in NorCal the Union Pacific police is so nice they gave me and my friend a sicker that had the phone number for the UP police and a picture of a Gevo
Interesting to see this sort of thing is happening in the US too! This is happening more and more over here in the UK, particularly in London & the South East. With us, it's security staff that are more the issue rather than the police. It's really spoiling the hobby.
Yep after 911 Railfanning has been a poor hobby and this is proof
"What happens if i dont?" "Well, the railroad gets sued."
As soon as he said "Ax you your name" instead of "ask" he forfeited any authority in any situation.
It’s just an accent chill out
@@BAS19.6 Who axed you?
Axed me to do what?
I got busted by railroad police for doing this too
I have to imagine the dispatchers in these cases get these calls from cops and transit workers and must think, "what are you doing that you have so much spare time in your day that you have time to bother people." This makes no sense.
I had the cops called on me because someone said I was stealing the bolts from the tracks so I had to explain to the cop that I was just filming them
''Stealing the bolts'' some people.
This is stupid. Taking pictures or video is not a crime. He can ask you why and you can answer if you'd like, but unless he had specific reason to further the investigation he should have just left. Cooperating is still in the best interest, but remember to go through the right channels to file a complaint if you need too.
Terrorists and criminals do it to case the trains so they know where to strike
Rail fans are the hidden gems in this country and people don’t know our community nor appreciate us
It’s annoying when stuff like that happens. I’ve had Amtrak police tell me to back away from the tracks on the nec when I was on the platform of the Marc station and in sitting on the seat. Cops can be jerks sometimes
I've been stopped by RR police before, but got a different reaction than this cop gave you. Once he saw my scanner and camera, He figured I was a railfan witch I told him I am. We did talk and he gave me safety material to read and share. My guess is to why he approached me was that I was parked on an access road used by the RR, to which he had no objections on me using, as I still use the same spot to this day with no trouble.
I realize this is a couple of years ago. However, this still makes my blood boil. Your on public property, you are not causing any kind of commotion, other than what's inside some goofballs head. I'm sorry, I am a retired railroader and I do a lot of videoing and taking photos. I would never volunteer any more information than my first name. End of story.
This happened to me on February 21, 2022, when taking pictures of one of the GP9's in New Freedom PA, and fortunately, I didn't get in trouble. The Cops actually did enjoy learning and other railroad facts like GP and SD engines
That's good!
I live in Baltimore and ride the Light Rail frequently. I've never seen them act like this. Over a train though, that's a bit excessive in my opinion. Wow, I didn't know the MTA police were THIS bored to investigate someone filming a train. Shame....
MTA Police??? This is not NY
@@najthesavior4286 Sir, did you happen to notice the title of this video? It's called " MTA light rail and over active police ". Their agency is called the Maryland Transit Administration. So, MTA police is CORRECT!!! Have a wonderful day!!!
Listen to the k5hl in the back at the end of the video
That's prob the train I came to see
Police in the UK are relaxed about train spotting and videos but quite often I get harassed by the public
2:43 "why you gotta be taking our pictures"
Cop:"I'm a hobbyist"
That answer really pissed me off.
good
This police officer better start doing his real job! catch crookes.
I talked to the County officer I know who is also a railfan. He said that since 9-11, law enforcement has been antsy about this. However, he said that this was not handled properly by the officer. That you were well within your legal rights to photograph, and to have such a snotty attitude by the cop was unprofessional, which apparently is not unusual for MTA cops. The officer told me that if it goes on too long, to ask if you are being detained. This behavior is not condoned by MTA management.
Technically speaking yes the MTA Police officer main responsibility is the transit system but MTA Maryland police is a full service department that can respond to calls that are close to them but leave it up to local jurisdictions
I wish I could play GTA with that cop.
love it
the police do have the right to ask for your identification even if you are not doing anything wrong. The United States Supreme Court ruled on this in Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada. Refusing actually constitutes failure to obey a lawful order. Now, being a railfan and a railroad employee, why police want to "investigate" railfans is beyond me.
Honestly, I didn't know it was illegal to take pictures of trains. He did say, "I have individuals videotaping the light rail train" like it was a crime?
I agree with the guy taking the video. He wasn't breaking any laws, so ID should not be required. I do like the cop's answer when he asked why he was taking their pictures, "it's my hobby." That was pretty funny.
Funny?? He was being a sarcastic A-hole !
I’m a light rail operator and it’s all about security. Especially since 911 people take pastures and video to learn and figure out system operations and other details. Before planning terrible acts so don’t take it personal it’s about keeping people safe if you see something strange say something.
What part of "NOT ILLEGAL" don't you fucking understand?!?
"I do not answer questions" Period. End of discussion. Demand his supervisor and give him the angst he wanted to give you.
Harassment that's what they should charge that cop with. Take it to a lawyer simple. You'll be out in the streets in no time flat
Dude, all you had to do is give him your I.D. I've been in this exact situation before (only I gave him my I.D.) and he took my name and asked me how long I was going to be there, just so if someone called me in as a "suspicious person" they would know its me. And the whole process took 2 minutes. Maybe cops wouldn't be so pissed off all the time if people would just cooperate with them.
Nothing to see here....just another affirmative action hire with an IQ of 80 hassling a law abiding citizen.
At least you caught a number of trains, makes it somewhat worthwhile.
People with cars can film from inside too and actually could hide dangerous things in the vehicle but no one even think abou it , but for some psychological reason dont know why a walking person becomes more suspicious and are more susceptible to harassment specially by untrained close minded little racist like this one..
most of that is true, but you have to be fair, he wasnt being a racist
Im glad it wasnt like that then , Very interesting you documented todays trains so young people 100 years from now might be able to enjoy your kool footage just like we watch vintage videos today..
An LEE is a program that opens up training and hands-on learning to teenagers on what its like to be a police officer, as at one point my goal was to become a railroad cop. At least here on the west coast, UP and BNSF, as well as Muni and BART police's jurisdiction extends in the same state of which they work. As I understand it, yes, this guy could pull you over and question you 15 miles from the railroad. He could also then get in trouble for not taking police action if he didn't.
Photography is not a crime! My dad Jawtooth has to deal with this same stuff on a regular basis. When will ppl learn?
Your dad is Jawtooth!?
That is so jacked up. Ive had two encounters with the police while railfanning. One at todds lane in rosedale. The cop was awesome and thoht it was a neat hobby, the other at jones road told me i had to leave. I was technically on csx property but i wasnt hurting anything. This guy was just a jerk. I think you handled it very well. Way to go
This cops/pigs hobby is looking at his phone and hasn't got a clue!!!
when you asked why do u have to take pictures and then the officer said "for my hobby" that pissed me off so freakin much
How is taking pictures of trains a problem?
Assumed profiling for terrorism. If they record names, and a terrorist action or odd accident occurs with the commuter rail, these guys would be pulled in for questioning. Thus the photo. However the cop's response to that question was witty and well deserved.
Photography in general is a crime if a cop can see you!
Lol, I keep getting recommend your old videos. also, why would he stop you, Railfanning/Trains are one of the biggest Love and Passion for people.
Thx for watching my older videos!
@@BaltimoreAndOhioRR Any video of yours is good!
Wow......Ahhh.....Cops are a bad thing these days...Especially that one, Some don't deserve there badges...I just started a new MTA series and I was in that same situation xD The cop that told me off was stupid, He told me that filming the Lightrail was "Illegal" LOL
TrainExpert8888 Really? When did that happen? After this incident, I received a letter from a Sargeant, or Commissioner, or whoever was the head of the MTA light rail authority - I can't remember his title - assuring me that as long as I wasn't trespassing, filming the trains was totally legal. Yes, cops do seem to be bad these days. 'Terrorism' and' Homeland Security' are drilled into their heads every minute, mix that with the type-A personality which is generally a pre-requisite for becoming a cop in the first place, and many seem to believe they have total authority to dictate to every citizen what he can and can't do, regardless of legalities.
It happened about....2/14/12
TrainExpert8888 oh, so that was a while ago... just a little bit before this. I guess that's what they were doing back then...
Yeah.
TH-cam is marking all my videos inappropiate, Do you know why?
I had the funny feeling you'd be getting views and comments on this! I'm surprised that cop didn't notice he was being recorded as well!
put on a turban,a fake beard,and some robes,and a prayer rug. the cop wont bother you then..
One time I got caught by a Police while looking for trains that I’m looking for Train Signals for Red, Yellow, and Green Light
Name and number ? That's messed up the come asking right of way what your name is like it was in nazi Germany ,
Papers? Your Papers??
I thought the officer might have been bored in his current assignment, perhaps that's why he harrassed you guy's to say, "stir the pot" and see what happens. I know this to be so, back in 1969, I was hitch-hiking in Eagle Rock, in the Los Angeles area, when a squad car pulled me over, and pushed me up against a wall searched me, threw my stuff on the sidewalk, and handcuffed me. Then after a few minutes, they released me, no apologies, no nothing, and left w/o saying another word. I picked up my stuff, and decided to walk to Hollywood Blvd., 3-1/2 miles away. I do not respect the LAPD anymore. Good video, we must all stand up for our rights, but be cautious at the same time.
Cops get wayyyyy too pissy when you pull out a camera. Some folks even get shot by 'em for it under certain circumstances.
I checked with my LEO that I know. He says that MTA RR police here in MD only have jurisdiction on RR property. So no, he can't show up at your house 15 miles away. If he did, the trouble he would get into would be overstepping his authority.
Amtrak has a BS photo policy. In a nutshell, they falsely claim that Amtrak stations are their private property, and only ticketed passengers can walk on the platform. I have been to Sturtevant and Plano stations, and both are completely accessible without any barriers stopping you. I have also been to Milwaukee Airport station, which is the same as the other two I mentioned, except you have to pay for parking. The claims Amtrak makes in their photo policy violate the 1st amendment, and some rebuilt stations are inaccesible by the public.
You should definitely report him! I've been approached by police a few times and they where polite and understanding. I only had one bad run-in and that wasn't even a cop. It was a Washington D.C. Metrorail worker that threatened to have security and police to break my camera and have me detained and for suspicious behavior. The only thing I was doing was filming out the front of the train. The worker even said that there was nothing interesting about trains and that he would have me detained.
When my family first moved to Yale Heights in 1964 and I had some nearby tracks for train watching, what later became the Goodwill store was a Western Auto distribution center and they were still receiving boxcar loads of goods. Probably the siding is still buried in the brush behind the building, if the bldg hasn't been razed.
I went there as a kid too, it's now a public storage building. (Entirely new building)
Someone may have called it in. Sounds like the camera operator was being difficult. Just be nice and cooperative. But I guess some people can’t act in that way. The cop seemed like a gentleman to me.
As I said many times in the description and in the comments, there was no reason to ask for ID. There were no motor vehicles being operated. No trespassing. As Casa de Maryland has proven, the police cannot simply require identification without reason. Standing in public taking photos is not reason, also proven in courts. It's just poor, lazy police work.
In 1987, at Campbell Hall, NY, I ran into a very nasty Conrail cop that had a long lasting affect on me. The conversation started with him telling me, "you, get your shit and get over here". He continued to use profanity, swearing, and threaten me. He said, "your lucky you don't have a bullet in the back of your head". I was actually trespassing, waiting for an NYSW stack train in the pre dawn darkness. He stated they were having problems with people stealing lumber from the lumber loads. He probably thought he caught the culprit. He said, had I not had those cameras, I would be in jail right now. He was very effective, because it was a long time before I trespassed again.
badass cop
I have had the police ask me what I am doing while railfanning but both times they have been cool about it.
That's just terrible luck, to have that happen to you more than once. You'd think they've run out of criminals, so they're going after railfans now. Thankfully, I haven't run into any cops like this here in St. Louis, but I imagine I will eventually. Great video to prove what's been happening.
If a cop tries taking my picture and I have committed no crime he will have "the bird" centered in the frame.
What a stupid cop for doing that to you, id put him on administrative leave or fire him if I were his boss. That’s unprofessionalism right there, why in the freaking universe would a cop do that and ask for ID? That cop is absolutely crazy, and in my opinion, he didn’t have right or probable cause to do that to you in the traffic stop circumstance
Under normal circumstances, the officer taking YOUR picture is a violation , and should be subject to legal response, there a re numerous lawsuits for Police seizing your Pictureand entering it into their computers. if the Officer has grounds to arrest you then and only after the arrest do they get to take / seize your picture, and then NOT on their PERSONAL CELL / camera. Only cameras that are used & maintained for EVEDENCE collection may be ysed to take EVIDENCE PICTURES. file a FOIL request for those pictures and watch the police officer LIE and say they were not taken.
orc313 I have not heard that.
It's called "railfanning" and is perfectly legal. The police officer was wrong for standing between the gauge.
The only thing you had to say is "Am I being detained, am I free to go".
ctfd4106 that is true, but I didn't want to leave. I was waiting for a train on the tracks behind me (filming light rail in the meantime)
I hate when I have to leave from Truckspotting or Railfanning most of the time it is Truckspotting cause I live by a busy road and get trucks to honk a lot when I get ugly stares I get nervous that someone would call the cops on me so I go into my house and pray to have no police searching for me
Great post, you might find however after a very detailed examination of a DMV application for any type of ID, you have more requirements to show ID than you might realize. Hence the reason I don't have any DMV issued ID, because I don't agree to the terms on the application. Thanks for posting and setting a good example of being polite, calm and articulate. Kudos.
That isn't true. You are never required to proivide ID unless you are detained with reasonable suspicion and in many states you don't have to provide ID until you are under arrest.
AFreedomLovingTexan You are correct that you don't by law have to provide ID, you are also protected by the 4th amendment. However in CA when you sign a DMV application you waive 4th amendment protections and you also agree to present an ID anytime it is requested (the wording changed from 'required' to 'requested' a few years ago). An officer is under no obligation to detain you or arrest you before obliging you to produce ID. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution is a double edged sword, where the state may not impair contracts, even the bad ones such as a govco application.
coreyeib"You are correct that you don't by law have to provide ID, you are also protected by the 4th amendment. However in CA when you sign a DMV application you waive 4th amendment protections and you also agree to present an ID anytime it is requested (the wording changed from 'required' to 'requested' a few years ago). An officer is under no obligation to detain you or arrest you before obliging you to produce ID."
Well, first of all something that is written on a paper you sign when you get your license doesn't overrule the constitution.
Second if there is no law or penalty for not presenting your driver's license when asked how can you say that a person is obliged to show it? What happens if they don't?
Third, those first two points don't really even matter because the Supreme Court has ruled in Delaware v. Prouse that the police can't demand your license without reasonable suspicion in addition the Terry v. Ohio ruling that the police cannot detain you without reasonable suspicion. In addition, the court makes clear that a person is not obligated to identify to police unless the are detained with reasonable suspicion and the particular state has a law requiring a person to identify when lawfully detained.
Lastly, how do you think an officer would force you to identify yourself without detaining you first? If you aren't detained you can just walk away. So they would be like "show me your ID" and you would just walk away. They can't stop you from leaving (lawfully) without reasonable suspicion of a crime.
Can I ask you your name?
Response: I don’t know you, how would I know your abilities?
Do you have a date of birth?
Response: I’m standing here, how do people enter this world?
Dumb questions to strangers acting responsibly deserve non responsive feedback.
This Is Really Frickin Unacceptable!!!!! COPS SHOULDN'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!
The majority of Police Officers have no regard for Constitutional Rights of Citizens. The area these fellows were videoing from appears to be public property. This officer's demanding ID was unlawful on account of no probable cause. Additionally, suspicion is not a crime. This cop was clearly fishing. Any detention or arrest in this case with no probable cause would be dismissed on several grounds. The railfans had every right to make a report to the agency of this, consult an attorney and file a complaint for civil rights violations against the officer and agency likely resulting in a damage award to the railfans. Court's have held videoing and photography from public areas is a Constitutionally protected activity under the First Amendment.
Some of you may remember the incident involving Christopher Fussell who was harassed buy Baltimore and MTA police. The ACLU was called in and MTA was publicly embarrassed by the negative coverage. The officers involved were disciplined for their behavior.