The Sage's Library: AD&D Player's Handbook
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
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Voice actor Trevor Devall plays tabletop RPGs solo-style fulfilling the roles of both player and GM.
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The gamers under 40 really missed out on the golden era where RPG's were new and rough around the edges and there was no way to find an answer on the internet (because there wasn't one!). We just made up or pasted together the rules we thought they SHOULD be written. We didn't worry about being wrong because there was no one to tell you that you were! Now, you get 10,000 downvotes on Reddit if you suggest that a Magic User could sacrifice HP to recast a lost spell or that the Fighter should be allowed to do extra damage if he runs off the balcony and buries his axe in the back of the Troll.
Also, the rules encouraged the DMs to change them and make their own rulings. In essence, the DM was never "wrong."
Yeah, from a pure design standpoint I think there are better games now, but the old stuff had a je ne sai qua that is just lost.
Ah the memories of old D&D. I'll never forget my introduction to the game and to rpgs in general. I was playing a thief and was offered a lot of coin to assassinate some official with a crossbow during a public speech. I remember that mind blowing moment of realizing I could go about this however I wanted to attempt it. My character was successful in the assassination but the client wouldn't pay and escaped, thus started my adventure. I was hooked!
Hm...gotta ask did you ever finish your adventure title "Killing the Swindling Coward who never payed"...Lol😅😂🤣😭
Ps...my Gnome Ghost character named Bill might be able to help...Lol
@@williamwhitney5266 Nope! Not long after more people joined and we rolled new characters together.
@@Icza maybe a future adventure for you when you DnD again
Player tactics (gaming rules) vs. character tactics (tactical positioning) is also an interesting conversation in terms of game design. And rulings over rules is something I was recently reminded of.
Loved this one Trevor, and it really took me back! I bought my copy of the AD&D players handbook in late 1982, and I still own it today. Heck, its even still in great shape despite me handling it thousands of times over the years, lol. I started with the Basic set D&D in 1981 at 9 years old, but my older friend decided I was ready to try AD&D shortly before I turned 11. I still like the mental aspects of AD&D (the tactics) much more than I do the super hero approach of 5E. It was all about the treasure and magic items in 1st ed AD&D, and I honestly miss that compared to 5E even though I do like 5E.
What I think is awesome to this day is the Bard from 1st ed AD&D compared to the Bard these days. These days, people are like "Oh, its a Bard... No worries." In AD&D, you ran for your life because a 1st level Bard was potentially an 18th level character (had to be between 5th and 8th level fighter, then between 5th and 9th level thief)!!! You'd better run screaming especially considering they most likely had one or more "Instruments of the Bard" at the ready! Thanks Trevor for the walk down memory lane!!
If you think the parry rule is obscure and never used, look at the explanation of Constitution and System Shock rolls surprise you. All characters (PC, NPC, monsters) are supposed to roll a system shock roll when polymorphing. Failure equals death. Also Haste is plays into this, as it ages the recipient 1 year (suddenly that spell becomes less useful for a human magic user LOL), AND you have to take a system shock roll. The rules as written are quite more nuanced than many players who have never played 1st realize. Great video!
This was a great episode sir.
I also got my start in 1st Ed AD&D and to this day it is still my favorite system. I have played many systems, to include 5th Ed, but most of my inspiration for campaigns and whatnot come from the 1st Ed DMG.
The 1st Ed DMG should be considered an enclopedia of rules more than anything else. A tome to be referenced when everything else fails or when you want extra flavor in your campaign. And as you said, nothing about studying these books is or was easy. To this day I still find new material in their pages.
Great episode! Thank you sir, as always.
I really like these videos because I'm pretty new to role playing (also I was not born yet) and it's interesting to see the history of the game. You have such a fondness for these books it's just so great to watch
Ahhh! A fellow book sniffer!
I've had moments when I saw the cover of an old RPG I used to own 30+ years ago, on someone's video channel, and the smell of the book pops right back from my memory. I rarely realize how well olfactory memory can work until those moments. It's amazing. Gonna go stick my nose straight into one of my newer, pleasant smelling RPGs now and whiff.
So true about wargamers. I went from Panzer Leader/Blitz when a buddy said “hey let’s play Chainmail” I scratched my head. “Where’s the counters?” On to D&D and remember waiting for the PHB to show up at the local game store. Played the heck out of it before moving on to other games. Haven’t played D&D since the mid-80s. Too many better games nowadays.
I can remember being about 10 years old, trying to wrap my head around the Gygaxian way the rules were laid out, while trying to comprehend how to solo them. Absolutely love the stuff, yet I have a love/hate relationship as far as Gary goes.
Another excellent video, thank you Trevor. I think your comparison between AD&D and 5th edition was spot on. I would really love to hear your take on the DMG too; just the magic item list deserves a video all to itself. During lockdown I spent a fair bit of time re-reading both the players manual and the DMG and I have to admit I had a quite a few aha moments when I spotted rules that are either forgotten or wasn’t familiar with your turn labyrinthine spot on. Despite its complexity and flaws AD&D will always have a place in my heart to. Thanks again for an marvellous video.
First RPG I ever bought was Tunnel & Trolls and I didn't have a clue how to play it! Had lots of fun in the Dungeon of the Bear though. 🙂
Hi Trevor, I loved this episode, took me back years. I had to re read it several times to grasp it, but well worth it
Great episode!
That book, and all the other source books for that edition, sparked my interest in history and mythology. LOL, "gygaxian language"; all that language and his references (some very obscure, some quite obvious) led me to the Lord of The Rings, which led me to the Eddas,, and many many more books, and elective classes in college. Quite the rabbit hole to go down, but I do not regret one moment of any of that time , that many people would consider wasted - I feel sad for those people sometimes.
I am a few years older than you, but we were introduced to the game at the same time; a time with no wikipedia, our library card got a lot of use in those early years. Thanks for the walk down memory lane.
I got my start in 1st Ed AD&D, but spent the bulk of my early gaming career in 2nd. Magnificent breakdown of the PHB!
A lovely little retrospective. While 2e is the system within my heart, I had/have tons of the 1e books to mine for supplemental content, and they are endlessly wonderful. There is no doubt that the afternoons spent poring through those hallowed titles started the gears in my brain which eventually led me to amateur game design.
I think you hit upon something interesting which I've never considered -- the need to attentively read the rulebooks of that era versus the at-a-glance digestible writing of modern books, and how the former leads to KNOWING the system and the way things work "under the hood," as opposed to just being able to operate the game. I believe one gets a lot more investment and immersion that way as well, though at a massive trade for time.
I am a relative newb with a lot of these games. I didn't get into ttrpg until I played pathfinder in the 2010s. But boy do I wish i could of had these memories as a kid in late 90s and teenager in the early aughts. Now i am in the thick of it. My first DM introduced me to pathfinder and now one my closest friends has opened up the rest of the ttrpgs including these old school games like this. Both of them have been strong influences for me in this community.
Old school Essentials (Advanced) also does an excellent job organizing and packaging the rules.
A dwarf, a cleric, a fighter and a magic- user walk into a bar... 😉
.. and Gygax instantly tries to kill off the magic-user. 😆
My first game system was BECMI D&D, but AD&D followed quite soon after. Great video Trevor, thanks for stirring up the fond memories I have :)
For all its flaws, BECMI is my favorite version of the classic game. If I were to pull out one of the older versions for whatever reason, this is the one i would pick.
@@JackMcCarthyWriter It is my favourite as well
.
Same here, except I never had ECMI until much much later. From 1983 Basic straight to Advanced when we hit 4th... (Realizing we basically had to rebuild our characters to account for the differences in Hit Dice and AC and attribute bonuses took a few weeks, as I recall.)
@@JackMcCarthyWriter the Rules Cyclopedia, in my opinion, is one of the best books they ever put out.
@@RedwoodRhiadra as I kid, the names confused me, so I assumed the natural progression was Basic, Advanced, Expert, Companion, Master.
Love these videos, Trevor! I really miss the days of "trust your DM" play. I try to instill that in new 5e players, but it's a tough sell. Was it perfect? No, but it felt way more engaging in my opinion.
Castles & Crusades RPG has tribute covers of all 3 books.
Love DnD
My Dad has all 3 1st Edition
Monster Manual
Players Handbook
DM Guide
And yeah well Now I have them from my Father and DnD has just added to my creativity&imagination which helps greatly with my passion of Art
Ps...Deadliest Race in DnD
Whispers.......
.silence.
The Bloody Gnomes
...
Ps...my character is a Gnome Ghost named Bill
I had, at one point, all of the orange-spined hardbacks (came to it too late for the very early blue-spined ones like Deities & Demigods). I still have most of them, but I've lost a couple in moves.
I never read the ad&d book, but I am partial to the old rules cyclopedia for the bx/becmi version of d&d, i never got to play it but I sure did spend a lot of time reading over it.
That was an awesome book. Still have mine and flipped through it not too long ago.
'High Gygaxian' was even harder to read and understand if your language is not English. I had my English-French dictionary next to me all the time. I loved it! LOL I tried reading AD&D1e not long ago. Man, it's really convoluted. I was surprised that many rules were not in the PHB but in the DMG.
I may have been lucky in the sense that I came to D&D with BECM. Later I looked at AD&D, but it was in the 2nd ed by that point. But I do relate to the notion of having to read and re-read a book to understand it.
I picked up Star Fleet Battles when I was quite young and I was so excited to play (thinking it might be similar to basic D&D) but soon discovered that it was like reading a textbook. The rules, as you mentioned for 1st ed AD&D, were all over the place. It became clear to me at some point that the only way I would figure out how to play was to somehow read every page simultaneously.
I had the exact same experience with SFB! Loved the idea of it, but it was like trying to learn advanced accounting and algebra all at once ;) I wonder if, now that I’m much older, I could finally parse those rules…. Might be worth a re-read!
@@MeMyselfandDieRPG - You could figure out SFB nowadays, but I would recommend their newer and somewhat more streamlined 'Federation Commander' line. It cuts down on the number of impulses per turn, along with a handful of other time sucking bits, and has two different scales to choose from so you can speed it up or play larger battles more easily. It's still a bit to take in, but is definitely an improvement on the SFB line, IMO.
I was 12 in 1978 when my group started playing ad&d, we all had the same experience apparently. Sometimes I still crack open these old books. yes there is lots of gold in them for modern players. what a nice and accurate tale you just shared. You really nailed how we played and how we still treasure this grandad of RPGs.
more, more, moreeeee.
I started playing in 1980 I think. I played in and ran campaigns all the time but I NEVER actually figured out how THACO or even AC worked. Hit dice? Huh? NPCs were just assigned a Hit Point Total and a general "competency bonus". For everything. The books were for the inspirational artworks (I[m looking at YOU succubus!) and the very interesting random charts-
I speak Unicorm? Cool!
Ooooo, roll to see if I'm drunk!
Yes! I got a haymaker!
What Psionic defense do I know?
18/40 Stength?
Hmmm what's a Strumpet?
Introduced by my cousin Tammy while visiting in the '70s, Basic D&D Redbook. Went to AD&D later with my friends. I agree, I loved that picture, Paladin for the win! Sir Cumcision. We didn't understand how to use a d4 to start with... we rolled it and added up all the numbers on the bottom. LOL. Loving the series, it's good to hear someone with a similar gaming background to share.
Thank you for another video Mr. T!!!!
Your parallel between 5e and 1e systems is really fantastic. Just can´t be any better. I thought just the same when you talk about treasure and "the stuff they get"
I love watching your videos because I have only been playing TTRPG's for about 4 years and wargaming for 2 years and I have the same mentality as you on the type of games I like. I also started on D&D 5E but now I almost cannot play it since, I have found that I prefer skill-based or point buy games much better than level and class based games. I love being able to be creative in character creation and use tactics. But with games like D&D 5e, I feel they don't allow this type of game play, at least it feels harder due to the overly strict spells and abilities. I have gotten around this a few times, for example, my Cleric used Dispel Magic on a Golem. I was almost positive that the DM wouldn't let me do this but allowed it begrudgingly. I definitely like rules as a framework/template that I can play around in. I don't want everything spelled out, first of all, there is no way I can remember all that and it feel like it limits fun and creativity.
Thanks for reminding me how much I love about AD&D... and for shedding some much needed light on aspects of the game I never considered.
I always look forward to these Sage vids.
Fantastic! I really enjoy this series, well done!
Thanks for the fantastic video, really enjoyed it!
Very nuanced approach at describing AD&D. One of the things I like about it is that gold is basically exp. Classic D&D games always have that "The Hobbit" feel. I think that book was an even bigger inspiration for Gygax than LotR was.
Going through OSE recently, after not having fully read any B/X or 1e since the end of the '80s, and realized just how much more olde D&D relied on magic item loot to differentiate the individual characters (rather than class stuff as in 5e). Also kinda miss gold being the primary XP earner, shifting more value over to loot rather than conflict as a goal.
@@NefariousKoel Yeah totally. Old school style of play is super different from the new style of play. As of now, things are just kind of given to players for ease of play or whatever. Old school always felt like an endless collectathon. You really needed as much as you could find.
I had no idea Blackjay was your first PC ever... now I better understand your attachment.
Ah, an old familiar tome. Now, I wasn't around yet when this first came out, but the father of a friend of mine had that book. He ran several games for us and it was my start into roleplaying. Then when 3e edition came out I got those books and formed my own game book. Haven't stopped playing RPGs ever since, though D&D rarely hits the table anymore these days.
Remember when my cousin got a d&d box, and we played for a while, then some friends a GURPS quick character booklet that we used to try to play (with many wrong rules)... oh boy, how much magic on those days. I really wonder how the younger generation will remember their first experiences, now that modern games are much more accessible. Will they value as much as we do? Because we really had to do some heavy lifting without yt tutorials or even partial information to get a game session going, and we still manage to have fun.
I recently flicked through my 1st Ed AD&D DMs guide and Players handbook for the first time since about 1990(I last played it in about 1988.I looked at it all and wondered how on earth I understand any of it as a young kid in the early 80’s,I’ve just turned 50 and don’t think I’d be able to find rules for anything lol
Oh excellent! Thanks!! ❤️
i read through AD&D about 3 or so times and didn't know you can parry lol
My first RPG was Fudge, discovered way back in middle school! Makes me happy to see 10th Anniversary edition on your shelves. Please consider doing an episode on it at some point, as too many only know about Fate.
P.S. Thank you for introducing me to Maze Rats, it's gotten me out of a creative funk!
Man, love fudge. Actually using a custom build version for my games. Pretty good base system indeed.
I played my first RPG back around 2012. My first system was Wushu. It was a lot of fun with my teen friends even if it was very barebones. Looking back, I now know Wushu was a response to crunchy tactics oriented games. The designer got tired of the GM saying something like, "No you can't do a flip, run across the wall, and fight eight people at once." Wushu lets the player do ridiculous things and it has no progression system.
I no longer play Wushu, but I'll always remember it.
Thank God today we have something like Old-School Essentials and Knave to teach us how the game worked back then :) .. and still I need months to figure all out...
Thanks for the video
Hope that one day you do one of these for Savage worlds, a tad curious as to why that was the one you picked to start out MM&D.
I will very likely do SW for a Sage's episode soon :)
So I'm just old enough to have grown up on AD&D 1e. Cut my teeth playing through T1-4. And you just made me realize something after all these years. The distinct memory I have of 1e ruleset being esoteric and overly complicated/poorly designed perhaps is a "false" memory and the reality was that the editing and organization of the rule books were poor giving an illusion of impenetrability. Interesting food for thought. I almost wish I still had my old books so I can revisit them (parents threw them away with my blessing when I went away to college... something i regret now having found my way back to the hobby after all these years).
I love you lol, this content is unreal.
3:14 - What's up fellow waghalters?
Yeah, the point you bring out about 1e, I have tried to implement into 5e as far as trust of the DM, the player role in running the character, a little less hero from the start and a little more importance of magic and coin again. It seems to be working ok with the tweaks I have made, but I get some push back from a player who wants RAW.
Would love to see a season using AD&D
Sage Library video about the first edition AD&D DMG? Yes please. I don't think any other book captures the personality of old Dungeons and Dragons like the DMG does. Everything from the quirky black and white art, to the way it's "organized" with some sections seeming like essays or articles that were just shoved in with little rhyme or reason. And lets not forget the "devil" on the cover (oh sure I know it's an Ifrit, but try telling anybody that in the eighties). I've never seen anything quite like it, not even the other old hardbacks. A lot of my old books have been lost, sold or stolen over the years, but I still have a water damaged DMG with the name of the original owner written in paint pen inside the cover. One of those awful 80s paint pens that wrote in silver and the color bleed out around the silver. It's pretty horrific. Way scarier than the Ifrit.
Indeed. Classic AD&D does not hold your hand at all, like OD&D or BX. The system itself, not that hard, but NOTHING is spoonfed... Still, this game is Timeless. Ageless and Timeless. A 10/10. Excellent video! But kinda creepy because I was just reading that book.
Heh. Makes me want to re-read my AD&D PHB now. Thanks for the memory tickle!
Totally get the name thing by the way... I was 4 when the grownups let me stay up and play D&D (OG 1e) with them... so my character was a halfling and my name was... my name. I still have the mini.
This is beautiful.
I remember running across a dubgeon magazine 12 and there was actually a solo model for AD&D which is pretty relivent to this channel. Sceptor of the Underworld. It was really fun to do. It employed this very cool Cyoa format that made you really feel like you were exploring a dungeon. key items would even have a number next to them that you meed to record then use later at an appropriate section to find out where to go next.
brw have you ever played D&D B/X or moldav which seems to simplify things a good bit?
Cool video dude 😎 btw using Hyperborea (new 3rd edition due anytime now) is for me the way to go for a spot of OSR AD&D 1e.
first time I played we rolled our abilities on a d20
I have never played this edition, my start with TTRPG was in GURPS (2nd ed) and right after that it was AD&D 2nd edition. I had my love-hate relationship with the system hahahaha... One of the parts I always disliked was the magic (Vancyan magic). But still we managed to have SO. MUCH. FUN. with AD&D2.
I may check OSRIC if it does a great job of embracing AD&D and making it more modern in some ways.
As always, a great episode of the Sage's Library. Keep 'em coming!
That's the best explanation of the difference between AD&D 1st ed and D&D 5th ed that I've heard!
Ah the Paladin. The character class that's basically impossible to get using the official 3d6-in-order method... (Less than one in a thousand characters qualify.)
3d6 in order was never the "official" method for AD&D. The PHB says to consult with the DM; the DMG gives four methods for rolling stats, none of them being a simple 3d6 in order. Method I in the DMG is 4d6b3 x6, arrange. The DMG even says that you may want to have players discard characters that don't have at least a 15 in two or more stats.
Still very difficult to qualify for paladin, but it wasn't designed with the intent of rolling 3d6 in order to achieve the scores, rather one of four methods(a fifth later with Unearthed Arcana).
the revised of the above tome with my first with the wizard , but that thaco and the vancian magic made me leave , the game i played with the most with the fantasy trip by steve jackson and now tunnel and trolls because i can solo it no group but that book and basic was my first game
4e kind of did away with Vancian magic in favor of the powers/moves system. And that's one of the reasons why I actually liked 4e.
I got started with 4e and loved it when my only exposure to RPGs was video games. Tried 5e when it first came out and was so disappointed with it I got into the OSR haha
I liked Vancian Magic. it forces you to think of magic like a resource. something to be treasure and used when appropriate.
@@bizzy5439 so interesting. i think i've had a very opposite experience. i've never tried 4e, but i got into ttrpg through ad&d 1e and d&d basic set. stopped playing some time around middle of 2e's run. and if it wasn't for 5e, i probably would have never gotten back into the hobby. i was instantly enamored by how streamlined everything seemed compared to my experience with ad&d back in the day and the community seemed much more open and inviting than what it was in the 80s/90s. i'm slowly getting exposed to other modern systems. i recently tried fistful of darkness and have started an ironsworn game (due to this channel). fun times. but my main game is still 5e. i kind of love it.
I've ruled in my delvings into the OSR that you don't need to prep spells. You still have slots. I recall from BECMI days (or maybe it was AD&D) how stupid it felt to have these cool spells you never get to use because you're never prepare them because they're so situational so you'd always go for the more broadly powerful ones.
The wizards have to pre-prepare their magic...Heh. I don't like Vancien magic either (am I spelling that right?).
Hi Trevor, you mentioned that the magic system (memorising spells) was one reason you moved away. I agree, I prefer other systems with flexible spell casting. May I ask about your favourite magic system?
I despise Vancian magic and to a lesser degree, Hit Points. They are the main reasons I can't go back to D&D despite my occasional nostalgia-driven desire to do so.
I’m a HUGE fan of Ars Magica. I even did a conversion of its magic system for my Harnmaster campaigns.
A 6th level Fighter in AD&D would slaughter most 6th level 5th edition fighters. Granted, most 5e Fighters are going to have quite a few neat quasi-magical abilities, but the time they read 6th level, most AD&D fighters are going to be running around with a small army. Hell, our fighter just hit 5th level and he travels with 2 squads of mounted heavy cavalry pulling two carriage-mounted arbalests in tow. I don't care how awesome he is, that 6th level 5e fighter is getting hacked to bits by a small army.
DM James has been praising Adventurer Conqueror King for months now, lol. Now it'll get even more attention.
Even as an elementary student, AD&D wasn't enough and I too found myself looking for more three dimensional role playing experiences.
I primarily found myself moving on to games that at least had skill systems. AD&D only had mechanics for combat and almost any action players took outside of combat was up to DM's fiat.
Games like Palladium were my first stop and then math extravaganzas like Villains and Vigilantes along with Space Opera were next.
I settled on games like Twilight 2000, Traveller, and finally Cyberpunk that dominated what I ended up playing in high school.
Ironically I didn't play much in college falling prey to Games Workshop's 40k.
After college, the final stepping stone for more simulationist games that also had mechanics for actual roleplaying was GURPS.
Like a bolt of lightning, D&D 3e returned me to the game that started it all with a unified system for combat and skills that was even more streamlined than GURPS.
I've probably logged more hours playing 3e, than any other game system if you count Pathfinder.
Lately I have focused more on 5e and the Alien RPG for even more of a streamlined experience. I find I don't want to be bothered with crunch anymore.
It is sad that you don't have the time and/or the player base to play AD&D anymore. I understand the reasoning, as RL pulls us in so many ways, but it is still sad.
There's not really any core combat rules in the PHB at all. Most of the stuff you mention in this video is actually in the DMG.
GURPS fixes literally everything about DnD (OSR or Modern), including the ridiculous magic system. I really wish more people played GURPS. I hear soooooooo many people complain about soooooo many things related to DnD...and GURPS has *NONE* of those problems. The only reason why GURPS isn't in the mainstream right now is because of marketing. DnD simply has more money. That's it.
Oh GURPS, just an excellent system to play anything and without any of the problems that have plagued D&D forever.
Race-as-class? Not in GURPS, Level limits by race? Not with GURPS, Vancian magic?... GURPS doesn't know what that is, THAC0? Hahaha... GURPS is more elegant than that, unkillable characters? that's your GM's fault, not the game's, 0 character customization? GURPS has us covered mate. I feel that the real problem with GURPS is this fallacy that the system is complex and very crunchy... Not really, it can be anything you want, but it doesn't have to be. Some of us prefer something like Pathfinder, others prefer FATE and still others prefer D&D (no matter the edition) and it's perfect... But with GURPS you can achieve that same feeling and more with just the basic manual, but as long as players who haven't tried GURPS yet continue to spread that false stigma of being a game "unnecessarily complex" GURPS will never be able to dethrone any system on the market.
The only personal flaw I see in the game is not being able to use my dice collection, it's the only bad thing that everything is perfectly designed around D6's... I know there is Savage Worlds, but it's not the same :'(
I have no problem mocking anyone who thinks the dreck put out by Wizards of the Woke these days is a good game.