Fact: Your OLED TV is Not Bright Enough for HDR. Here's Why.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.พ. 2021
- We demonstrate why a high peak brightness is important for an OLED TV to accurately reproduce the creator's intent by preserving more specular highlight detail, in response to some TH-cam comments saying that "OLED TV is already bright enough, so you don't need more brightness" from the likes of the LG G1 Evo OLED or the Sony A90J Master Series OLED.
This video demonstration was done using two LG CX, one calibrated to 400 nits peak brightness in HDR, the other to its natural maximum peak brightness of 650 nits in HDR.
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A lot of negativity here... All the man is trying to tell you is that with future OLEDS, with higher brightness potential, will not only mean a brighter TV but better presentation of actual HDR content! Where more details are preserved in scenes with High Dynamic Range content, pretty simple stuff...
I think the issue is that he cherry picking specific scenes that are extremely bright and are literally 0.015% of the movie. Who cares? That said, I love his videos and appreciate his analysis.
I watch Movies and TH-cam videos in moderate to subdued lighting, and on rare occasions in a darkened room. When I was a CET, we were taught that these sorts of lighting conditions were optimal for critical viewing. I had to turn the brightness on my OLED down during HDR content because it kept making me wince. Owning a TV set with brightness levels so high that it feels as if you need sunglasses to watch it isn't necessary to enjoy HDR content. Just darken the room a bit.
@@maximilianadair3237 he didn’t cherry pick. That’s how HDR works. Not all scenes need as high of nits. The proper way to create HDR is to keep the darks and mid values the same. So most of everything will still look good at 100 nits. It’s everything above where different levels of brightness can keep more detail. This is precisely why HDR goes up to 10,000 nits. It’s those areas that would normally be crushed white flat scenes that can hold more detail. With only 400 nits those specular highlight areas will be washed out because there is no detail left. 650 nits isn’t even showing the full potential of HDR here and ironically Hollywood movies rarely make good use of HDR. Theaters have horrible brightness. Real life material or material designed to be HDR would show an even larger difference between 400 nits and 650 nits. 650 nits isn’t even all that great. 1600 nits is my new standard. It really shows that much more highlight detail and makes liquids and metals look extremely lifelike.
Every display technology right now has cons. When it comes to OLED burnin and lack of brightness are it’s two major cons. I see no point in getting upset over that fact. If you have OLED enjoy it. It does look great. Just know it’s brightness is limited. That can’t really be disputed. It’s a cold hard fact and right there in the numbers. If HDR uses up to 10,000 nits how on earth could 400 nits be good enough?
Black level also has nothing to do with brightness. Just because the darks can be darker doesn’t mean that has an impact on the mid range values or the highlights. It strictly means the really dark values can actually get really dark. That’s it. It may increase contrast and make the image more punchy but that doesn’t have any impact at all on highlight detail. It’s the highlights that really matter in HDR. It’s those values over 100 nits we are trying to preserve.
Micro LED is where we all want to be. Mini LED and OLED are both temporary solutions with negatives.
Nothing about this is simple dude. People are salty because they spend thousands of dollars and then see a video like this basically saying their TV is garbage. I have what many consider to be the best OLED available right now: LG C1 77" it has the Evo panel but I'm not going to activate it because I don't want to void my warranty. I'm just saying I have the right to be salty. Lol
@@JackBusiness89 except nobody said their TV was garbage. It’s pointing out the fact that OLED doesn’t get as bright but it has other advantages. Not once was anything called garbage. Not sure why anyone needs to be salty about it. At the very least don’t direct that saltiness towards a well thought out video that points out that OLED is not perfect at everything.
Imagine having Vincent over to watch a movie. 😂
It’s like inviting a famous chef over to eat dinner at your place.
It no joke, my friends always complain when choosing a movie to watch and I know that a 4k release is imminent or available. I refuse to watch anything less.
@@dealerovski82I’m like that at some movie theaters. They have the worst black levels 😂
@@anthonysorensen3666 Some scenes yes, not always. Even some HDR 4K are not much better then 1080p versino. But I still can't watch it if there's a 4K released.
@@dealerovski82 I recently started watching movies in 4K, and I’ve noticed that there is a huge difference in quality between every 4K release. For example, I watched John Wick Chapter 3 and The Meg. John Wick had amazing colors, but the image was very grainy, whereas The Meg was incredibly sharp and clear. While I love both releases, I was surprised at the difference between the two.
@@domphilbrick those differences has to do with the chosen camera systems during filming rather then on the 4k transfer.
It’s clear some of you didn’t watch this video. Vincent isn’t saying that OLED is suddenly a terrible technology to buy into, he’s just saying that it’s a fact that LED handle HDR content in brighter scenes much better then OLED. That’s been known for a while now and it isn’t some new phenomenon, as a OLED TV owner you understand that your sacrificing brightness and maximum HDR detail for dark scenes that look absolutely stunning compared to a LED screen with its halo effects.
The point people are making is that he never made that point before, about OLEDs not being good for HDR when he was selling it to people. He's not trying to sell LCDs, he's trying to sell the new Evo OLEDs to people
@@loughrey101 The montage at the end of the video was literally him stating that OLEDs were not that great for peak brightness in HDR content compared to LED.
Exactly. People are losing their shit because of this video when he didnt even say anything bad lol, all he did was explain why 1000 nits would be better.
@@loughrey101 Yes he did, did you even watch the video? Also you can check his review from the 100 inch ZD9 for example where he calls it the HDR king. Vincent has ALWAYS explained how nits are important for HDR.
@@loughrey101 You havent been paying attention because he has always said that. Some people just like to try to discredit someone when there is nothing there.
Vincent is definitely right when it comes to sunshine. Thankfully I have a terrible sleep schedule so I’m mostly watching at night.
Also, HDR is mastered for theater/home theater environments. Imo you should design your room around your screen and surround sound, not the other way around... including light sources, direct lighting vectors and overall lighting environments.
Movies are made to be watched during the night.
@@elvnmagi9048 haha, whilst that is great in theory life (kids) have a habit of getting in the way of such a dream so we have to make do with the environment we have.
@@elvnmagi9048 It’s already ridiculous to have to babysit OLEDS in order to prevent burn-in. I definitely don’t want to also have to design my house around the shortcomings of OLED technology. If I were going go to that much trouble, it would make more sense to just buy a projector and put it in a dedicated, light-controlled theater room.
@@mikemckee6583 You don't need to baby your oled in 2021. That's mostly a thing of the past now.
This is a very difficult composition to illustrate with ISO challenges from a camera. Great job Vincent. Your messaging was overwhelmingly evident on my 77” CX in 4K using the native TH-cam app.
He mastered it into SRGB so it was very evident even on my SRGB Samsung gaming VA monitor.
It amazes me at how offended people get if something negative is said about the technology of your choice. Everyone knows there isn't a perfect tv technology available. How else will tech companies continue selling their newer tech if something is already perfect? Vincent has always been honest about the drawbacks of all worlds. If you chose to ignore it then that's on you. I bought multiple LCD's and one OLED, none of them were perfect but the one that impressed me the most was the 75Z9D. That's what I stuck with and to be honest OLED is not for me. I'm a gamer and I put in lots of hours. OLED was too dim and unspectacular with HDR content.
Right. There simply isn't a perfect TV. If there was the price would be above obscene. You have to find the best compromise for you. Vincent does a great job trying to educate people to the pros and cons of each technology, each TV. In the end it has to be a compromise. Get educated, go check it out, get the best one for you. Then enjoy.
True, OLED are not meant for general rooms to begin with. It's only good for the dark TV room or night watching when it's already dark no light coming from out side. My family is always Sony and because we play video games from different consoles and the guys loves watching sports. My big sisters and nephews are big gamers. But we don't have a play or TV room. Our TV is in the family room that is not ideal for OLED.
It’s because people but all their eggs in one basket with oled and now they are and because it’s not what they thought it was. Smh
i turned off hdr when playing games
is hurting my my eyes
It still crushes me that Sony would not ship the 75" to my country. I love my 65Z9D but man, going back down in size and it being such a great telly hurts. It hurts.
Im an OLED owner and fanboy. This is a good video and its very fair. The issue is that for me to get more NITS I then have to trade that off and lose my perfect blacks, unlimited contrast & viewing angles. Its not worth it to me but scientifically this video is accurate and well done. No argument. No TV tech is perfect.
Dont forget screen burn in and short lifespan!
Trouble is perfect blacks, you suffer black crush and lose a lot detail in very dark scene. There is no perfect one display, but QD OLED May have more promise as it gives the advantage of OLED and Quantum dot tech which has improved LED tech, in QLED tvs much better than standard LCD/LED tvs
Think QLED is a good compromise, but only the top flagship model, not so in the lesser models
OLEDS SO DIM AND DULL
@@denodan oled rarely ever crush blacks, dark scenes are darker than lcd but 95% there is no black crush. It’s literally a non issue compared to shitty haloing blooming and garbage backlight transitions from lcd that are always there.
A thumbs up for LOTR as reference material.
AND MY AXE!
When I bought my LG OLED 65 B7V I knew that peak brightness would be lower (700 nits at 10% coverage max) but the black level detail is so much better so that what's important to me. I've watched about 250 HDR10 en DV films on it and I can't say the limited peak brightness is a big problem. Sure, it could be better, but a lot of HDR movies (certainly older ones) have indeed SDR level brightness. And the better ones look excellent to me because how many scenes does a movies count where if goes over the peak brightness capabilities of your OLED TV? Very very few I'm sure. But very good explanation of the PQ curve and excellent video!
Well said. Im happy with my Panas gz960 .. blurays, uhd player with hdr and dv, netflix and gaming. Before i had an Sony with LED's.. the picture was great, but dark areas were bleeding with light.. for me, the jump from led's to oled was huge
@@MrPimpJuiice I think you need to checkout the x940e or z9d ....even though those are led based, they do excellent in uhd HDR movies.
Vincent: Tells me to buy OLED
Also Vincent:Its not bright enough
Yes. And you love it.
OLED is for black level, not for brightness level, it's obvious. And he is talking about HDR, not SDR. SDR is 100 nits and OLED can do that.
I have a C9 and I've never really got what all the HDR fuss is about
Hdr on oled is better though because you start from pure black
Everything is HDR, he is done with the LG CX. He will move on to the 2021 TVs. Interesting that he posts his most negative CX video this late and not 8 months ago. Views are king.
The world of HDR would be so lacking without this guy, thank god there's still someone out there who's willing to dig deep
Brilliant. Explained a seemingly complex concept like PQ in detail in less than 15seconds
Not really, no. Perceptual part means that you should not work with this side-by-side method, but should adapt to the tone curve as it is on the display.
It won't matter. Every other thread there are a barrage of MY OLED BLINDS ME. I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! WHO NEEDS NITS??? Despite Vincent explaining it over and over. I have a suspicion these people need to be told not to look directly at the sun...
@@halfvader8015 😂That last bit got me laughing. Indeed
Short and detailed. Perfect.
i wouldnt say short lmao
Thanks, Vincent, this is awesome information for someone who is deciding b/w OLED and LCDs.
Also, now I don't feel as bad about smashing all the OLEDs in a nearby mart that one time when I realized I couldn't afford OLEDs. Thanks to you!
I returned my OLED, cant stand that "deep black" effect , everything is so dark. I cant believe some people actually seek that
What a great video. Concise, packed full of all of the information you could want without doing a ridiculously long deep dive. Fantastic work.
stellar content as always. I learn something new in every video. thank you for your work. The only person I trust when it comes to display technology.
I had the 2018 Vizio P Series Quantum, which was Insanely bright. like 2400 nits bright. The HDR highlights were insane... I now own the LG C9 and find that the highlights aren't as blinding but the contrast and complete lack of haloing and light bleed from LED TVs is a more pleasing image. The HDR highlights still pop at a fraction of the peak brightness due to the fact it has perfect contrast ratio.
LOL. These comments. Okay; I am an LG GX owner here and have my screen in a mostly dark room. I absolutely LOVE the picture quality of my OLED. Everything looks so good on PS5 and even HDR content on Netflix and Blu ray.
Would I be stoked if I could get my screen brighter by 20%?
You betcha.
Does it mean this tv sucks? Nope.
Do I wish I’d have gotten the Samsung QLED? Not at all-not even the 8k.
Is Vincent accurate when he says that OLED brightness isn’t good enough for bright specular highlights? He is. And I totally agree.
Yet I can still love my current TV.
Crazy.
Yup oleds are dim AF. if they weren't they would be perfect.
Marcus: Thanks so much for your generous reply to my query about HDR brightness. I was pleased to get a better understanding of HDR and very much appreciated your taking the time to respond to my comments. Best regards, John
Always learn something from your videos. Thanks Vincent!
Now I know what the PQEOTF curve/perceptual quantisation means... Even though I'm probably not gonna need it, great video again Vincent
i get it. so its not simply about overall brightness but the difference in brightness between different pixels to show detail where limiting peak brightness does not allow for specific pixels to reach a different level of brightness compared to those around it in order to show affected details in the image. its like being color blind for light levels. think of the cards used to determine color blindness. they use specific varying colors to show numbers. by removing a color(limit peak brightness in a sense) you remove the number from the image that would have otherwise been detectible. its why being able to display more shades of any color allow for more detail to be shown in images that use mostly or all of the same exact color.
It's so nice to hear somebody talk about this topic who actually understands it.
Thank you.
Hey Vin, if I set my Panasonic blu ray player HDR optimizer to "Basic Luminance LCD (500 nits)" then I should retain all highlight detail correct? Does this also mean that at 500 nits my tv will less bright? Would be nice if you could do a video using your equipment to test the actual brightness levels of the tv once the HDR optimizer is engaged. Thank you.
Seems a pretty fair assessment. I'd still go OLED as I watch 99% of the time in the evening in a dimly lit room. Brighter OLEDs are a welcome upgrade and should be plenty good enough until microled arrives. Remember it's horses for courses, buy the technology that best suits your use case.
Exactly! I also watch in the evening with really dim lighting or dark and I prefer not to have my retinas burned out by 1000 nits thank you very much. My LG B9 is awesome....😁
@@steven2809 Is not like you have the option...
but you completely missed his point, regardless if you watch in a dark basement or a moderately lit room you need more nits for a good HDR experience
*Cries in my plasma tv that is even dimmer than all modern OLEDs
Man same here. I love our Plasma but it looks weak compared to even some of the low end stuff these days.
It looks great color wise though.
And Panasonic built it like a tank so i don't think it'll ever die...making it harder for me to justify buying something new.
I wouldn't trade in my plasma for any new TV. Not LCD, not OLED. Perhaps Micro LED, as I have yet to see those in action. I tried good LCDs and OLEDs, including with HDR content. But the look of a good plasma is just something special. It makes everything look great. Especially 24p.
I'm praying that it won't ever die, cause I really have no idea how I could replace it.
Same here...everything is great on my 11 years panasonic plasma st10 except the hdr thingy...probably i'll go on sony a8h this year...
@@kadajawi6567 and dim , leds more bright and colorful
@@michaelmayers3622 So? Cheap speakers can be loud too, but that doesn't make them better. The plasma is bright enough for me. Benefits from the higher brightness of an LCD is easily offset by the better handling of motion and colors that a good plasma offers.
amazing video, extremely professional, there's no channel that comes even close in this domain!
thank you for your work!
Vincent always making informative and fun to watch videos :)
I 💯% agree! I just got back from best buy. I was sitting looking at 77in CX thinking about getting an Open Box. Medium dim lighting there and they had Avatar playing on it.... No way, not bright enough plus allot of crushed blacks. Sitting next to Z8H which had great pop colors and good brightness but not near the contrast. Sat there thinking, I want Z8 brightness on that CX panel. I hope we get that this year, it's worth waiting for and the 8k added nothing to the picture, the OLED was way sharper. GX, A90J for me unless I just decide to go REALLY big with a 950j 85in
A couple of years ago I purchased a LG C7 OLED and returned it because of a stuck green pixel. Later I got a Sony x900f (TV I have right now) and for me the picture of the Sony is much better than the C7 in HDR mode. It's a personal preference between inky blacks and details preservation in specular highlights and overall peak brightness. Personally I prefer the later but I understand why some people might prefer the OLED especially in a pitch black room. For sdr contents OLED is really, really good though.
Really good information here. I believe you use a GH5 for your videos? Would you please consider recording these type of videos in HDR/HLG and uploading them. It would be much easier to see the difference that way.
Just came here for the comments... Didn't disappoint. Vincent, I guess you're just one of those men that simply want to watch the world burn. 😄
Haha exactly the same here.
Ok so let me lay this all to rest. I am a techie, love my tech and recently got an a80j. My wife has no idea about tech, we had a Sony led before. She said something while we were watching daredevil which hit me. She said it feels like that is happening in our room. The picture on an oled just looks so much more realistic then an led. Sure, an led can get more brighter but that is not realistic, we have just got used to it. Remember, plasmas had a max nit of 100 and were considered to have the better picture quality. Because we have got used to seeing unrealistic images on traditional TV's it takes a while getting used to a realistic image, once you do there is no going back.
Just outstanding. You make technical jargon understandable to me. Thank you.
What is the correct setting for Local Dimming and ECO for the q95T? I have local dimming on high. Do I loose details with the eco system? What is the best setting in this case? Thank you very much guys
He's just saying there's no perfect display tech around...
Calm yourselves. OLED is still the best tech if you value contrast and blacks and do not fuss about losing some details of the picture sometimes.
I watch a movie because of the story not because and I dont nedd to watch all the details to the milimeter
There’s just something about OLED, I don’t know if it’s because of the contrast, but images have this 3D pop to them. Maybe it’s not the contrast, because IPS panels have a bit of that effect too. VA panels look the most” 2D” to me
@@justsaying993 so it's not the contrast then, since VA has at least 2x the contrast compared to IPS 😆
@@justsaying993 really? I've never had this 3d pop up effect on my OLED (BX9). But I've had it though on the Hisense flagship model of 2020 like crazy 😅.
Funny how the experience differse.
There is, its called Micro LED 😏💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵
@@SP95 there is still no consumer microled tv available and until it's been reviewed it's only perfect in theory
it's interesting to me that most people end up squinting there eyes when looking at bright objects and I must admit I often look at darker items in a bright scene.
Human eye is made for dark sensitivity.. Nobody is looking into bright areas in real life..
@@TheRealJohnHooper Exactly. People argue that we dont need super high brightness for displays, which is basically like arguing that you should walk around with sunglasses on your entire life. Content creators have to trust you wont stare at 1500+ nit areas of the screen because it's instinctually uncomfortable, but having that ability to produce such brightness still has a significant impact on the overall contrast of the image, not to mention the greater color depths possible.
That is just an inctinct.
Does anyone know how much brighter / less lossy QDCC is compared to traditional color filters? Like can we expect 5%, 10% or 20% efficiency increase?
Hey guys. In light of all the updates that the cx has had, is it better to buy a cx or a c9, at the same price? Thanks
It is a trade-off between the two. I prefer the oled with inky colors over the bright led lcd.
Dark room definitely
[Laughs in Samsung QN90A]
Qled get higher color gamut coverage.. Advantage of OLED is contrast.
There are LED TVs that are just as good.
@@cameron818 Some people spend more time staring at black bars than the actual image displayed. Leave them alone and don't be a bully.
Thanks for another great video Vincent! I'm curious, what are your thoughts on the Hollywood Panasonic OLED's which are available now in the US(GZ1000U) that apparently have no ABL? Robert Zohn at Value Electronics, has mentioned this was because the power supplies in some OLED's weren't powerful enough to handle the voltage required to display a full 700nit signal but seemed to downplay that the ABL is actually done for panel preservation as you mentioned in your video. This was always my understanding as well but I would love to hear your thoughts about this.
I'm sorry but there is no way in hell the reason oleds haven't displayed full brightness on full screens was because a power supply couldn't handle it. Just no. They make incredibly powerful power supplies for computers that go up to 2000w. It's always been about protecting the panel from damage.
@@randybobandy9828 I'm only repeating what Robert Zohn mentioned in his video with FOMO. To me, it makes some sense. It's not so much that those beefed up PSU's weren't available, they just weren't used. This gives some credence to the upgraded heat sinks on the new brighter Sony and Panasonic panels. It's not that it couldn't be done, it just wasn't being done. And I thought Vincent might have some thoughts on this.
you succinctly summarized what my eyes have been showing my brain, and what I've basically known for a while - peak brightness is very important in any good tv........
Great video. Thank you for taking the time to make it. 👍
This is why I'm glad I went for the E9 instead of the CX. They lowered the brightness on the CX to 650 nits, down from 800 nits on the E9/C9.
No They didn’t
You have the E9??? I wish Sony made a picture-on-glass TV design. 😑🤬
I also have the E9 65" and I'm very satisfied with it. I think isf bright room works really well for SDR content in daylight and cinema home for HDR when it's not dark around me.
The lower ceiling of brightness on the OLED is more than excusable for the incredible contrast and color reproduction imo
Definitely. Coming from a Q90T and OLED owner, OLED destroys when it comes to overall picture quality
I don't think it's really even comparable, the OLED destroyed the LED in all those tests, it would be cheaper to just buy a lightbulb and stare at it if brightness is that important.
Defeats the purpose of HDR, but doesn't matter when viewing SDR content. I have a NU8000 series Samsung TV from 2018 that has 5400:1 contrast ratio. I would love the OLED blacks but this is still amazing value for 75" screen that cost around 1500eur 2,5 years ago.
It is, he's just creating content for the sake of creating content. The bit depth and colour accuracy is what matters when it comes to bit depth.
I agree. As with Plasma screens, the picture quality and accuracy is worth the trade off. All other display technologies have their own advantages, but overall are inferior to Oled, as they were to Plasma.
I had a ks9800 (around 1300nits) before I traded it in for E6 oled(700nits). Ks9800 was like having a tanning bed in your living room so extreme hdr impact but I couldn't get over very visible flashlights. LG E6 did not have the impact obviously but between the contrast and enough brightness to highlight most details it was a better well rounded natural pq. Honestly I had to turn down brightness alot with ks9800.
Given this, where can I find the best settings for my Sony 77A9G I got in November? I'm not able to have it professionally calibrated.
Would you recommend a Q90/Q95T for PS5 considering this fact over an LG CX? The PS5 always has HDR on(even for non HDR stuff) and that's my primary use case.
Also wouldn't setting the OLED light at 100 in HDR increase the risk of burn in?
I got the Q90T 85 inch and I'm very satisfied while playing the ps5. Follow this guy's tuning guide for gaming on that tv.
If you care at all about Dolby Vision, don't get a Samsung. No Dolby Vision support on ANY of their TV's.
This is just like the discussion about Hifi audio equipment. On one side, content creators and enthusiasts are deeply dissatisfied with the poor quality of the average speaker, and perplexed as to why many consumers claim that the tinnitus-inflicting sound of their laptop or TV is perfectly fine for them. On the other side, the average consumer doesn't either have the buying power or simply care as to why they should spend thousands upon thousands on massive and often visually unattractive speakers.
In the end, in many cases, neither side is wrong. No-one should be forced to buy what they don't feel is worth their money, on a subject that isn't important to them. But it is absolutely wrong to claim there isn't a difference and that it doesn't matter, when obviously there is a difference and it does matter to plenty of people who work, distribute and enjoy said content.
Suomi mainittu! Yeah, people need to understand that everyone has different needs and when you have neighbours to consider, you can't have big loud sound system.
But in Hifi, the technology doesn't evolve as fast and i bought second-hand passive reference monitors for 200€, these will work for rest of my life and "better" analog amps are available hopefully if i need to upgrade something.
Hm, yeah, massive I get. Expensive, hell yeah. But visually unattractive?! Focal Kanta, Sopra and Utopia. Absolutely gorgeous. Dali Epicon. KEF Reference, Blade, Muon. Raidho D and TD. etc. They sound great, and they look like a million bucks.
" visually unattractive speakers" sounds like sour grapes. I've spend thousands and I only go up not back again because the difference is so big and the price point allows choose between the design.
@@lennutrajektoor I bought SWANS M1 monitors for 200€, including cables. :D
All i have to say is Suomi mainittu torilla tavataan perkele!
Wish Vince would do a video on Sony wh1000xm4 headphones and oleds and xboxs/ps5s. Which is best using tv bluetooth or connecting headphones via cable to console controllers? Dts x app or dolby app on xbox?
I can see the grid pattern DSE in all the test scenes in your comparison video alone so if your sets have the “grid” faint horizontal lines you’d see it in those kinds of scenes.
Thank you for this. OLED fanboys are freaking out in the comments but I appreciate your unbiased statement of facts and where TV tech is today.
Weird question: does your mechanistic understanding of how displays work get in the way of the experience of the material you watch? Im afraid that the close to reality your videos bring me (I watch most of them) the more difficult it is to get lost in what I watch lol
Actually you're so right.
First and foremost we must enjoy of watching whatever we would like....
Bringing up excessive technicality and scrutinization would reduce our joy and excitement ....
This is exactly where I’m at right now, unfortunately.
Just recently bought my first HDR QDOLED monitor, and everything I watch is subconsciously scrutinised, whereas before it was just about the experience and fidelity of the resolution.
It’s akin to listening to music and just enjoying the experience in a general kind of way. But after learning to play an instrument and researching and learning, suddenly you’re hearing individual instruments, how they’re projected through the headphones soundstage and how they’ve been mixed in.
I’m really trying to get back to just enjoying the experience without too much fuss, but every now and again I wonder into the settings to tweak.
@@exhermit at least now you have a choice to be critical or just relax :) thanks a good thing.
Thanks for the explanations :)
But my 65GX6 is far enough for me (I had an old OLED LG 920V before and the change is huge)
Hey Vincent do you think oled will get brighter BFI modes the current 60hz bfi high mode is only 60nits. and medium does nothing for motion resolution.
This was actually a VERY GOOD video. It lays peak brightness criticism to rest. I think there might be a nits level at where there won't be much gains boosting the overall peak brightness any more - but it's certainly not at 650 nits, at which OLEDs currently are at. That level will be substantially higher.
That’s why HDR standards exist. 1000 nits peak is the first standard. 4000 is the second
No, 650 nits for 1/10th of the screen.
150 nits peak brightness, for the entire screen.
If we are trying to show a HDR recording of a beach in Africa at high noon with the sun beaming directly down at large areas of White Sand.
That oled isn't going to show you 650 nits, rather somewhere around 200 nits.
While in reality the beach was overflowing with +4000 nits.
Not to mention 650 nits isn't bright.
If you bought a lamp for your livingroom with 650 nits, that's a dim light bulb ...
I’m enjoying my LG CX 65” I’ll wait for the next round of tv selections in 2025 Woot!!!!
Same here. I find my TV to be plenty bright for my current use. In 5 or so years when I'm in the market for a new OLED I'm sure there will be vast improvements in OLED tech.
It's good tv, the only problem is, we kinda bought our tv on wrong year. C9 was just as good, and this year there are big improvements.
@@kiisseli1337 No. There will be close to zero improvements for the 2021 C series. Only the G series gets the new panel!
I’m currently deciding which tv to purchase, should I wait for the LG 2021 models or get the CX now? Thank you.
@@timbibbs9101 I would purchase now if you are getting a C or B model. The 2021 models are basically the same. Only the 2021 GX is getting the new updated panel and I'm sure it will be pricey as usual.
I think the more important thing that is impacted is skin tones/gradation, something I missed when watching this video previously. As a LG C8 owner, getting the less bright A1, combined with LG’s tone mapping makes that pretty obvious (though 77” + OLED+ evo panel are still king 😊)
Thank you for your hard work ethics in all your videos. I admire your expertise and whole detail explanations.
I just bought my first LG Entry-level 4ktv. Model, LG 55 "UQ 8000AUB.
Can you please do a review on it for me?
I am very curious on your opinion on it.
Thank you so much for your consideration, (Hopefully 🙂) 🙏
It is such a pity that this video is not HDR. Could you upload HDR version, please?
Up until now I didn't fully understand the issue with lower peak brightness on OLED. I always thought that it just made the light HDR-parts less bright, where the brightness range of the movie is just mapped on the brightness range of the TV. The trade-off between LED and OLED is basically high peak brightness and dynamic range vs. perfect blacks and contrast. Thanks for this video! I'm curious to see what microled will be like in a few years from now, theoretically the best of both worlds.
The bright parts of the HDR scenes are mapped to the range of the TV, if Dynamic Tone Mapping is on. This is tuned for maximum HDR accuracy and therefore has Dynamic Tone Mapping off.
I've got a LG BX OLED I'm contemplating upgrading to 65", would I be better off going QLED then ?
Hi Vincent Which TV to choose in 2021 4k oled or 8k qled ?
Great information and wonderfully done video. Although, Using brightness to try to make a display look better is horribly misconstrued by many and doesn’t necessarily mean better overall picture results as you have clearly demonstrated. I understand that 400 nits isn’t extremely bright and it is at the lower level of just good enough, especially in a dark room, but a lot of it is about perception and the environment you are watching in. However, we both know your title is not a fact but an opinion. Whoever is watching this might have a 1000 nit oled if not a 600 one. I am light sensitive so if a display gets over 600 nits I have to turn my eyes away because it is painful. I prefer to keep my display brightness down because of this. I’ll just be happy the day micro led televisions are readily available.
I think the reason most people who have an OLED are satisfied with the peak brightness is because mostly it is being used in a dark room, where sometimes you even have to turn down the brightness,
Indeed
That's it!
Yes, and the contrast which you eyes are adjusted for with the blacks being black. Playing games on mine HDR scenes with lots of sunlight hurt my eyes even with the brightness tamed. Horses for courses.... and of course Vincent is one of those people that wants it exactly as it was intended by the creator.
Did you watch the video, this wasn't the point at all. If creators make 1000 nit HDR content, it will be bad on LG CX. Also it makes HDR scenes/highlight dimmer. But I think most content is less than 1000 nits, then it's quite good.
My eyes are sensitive to brightness, and sometimes it can still be too much for me to watch hdr on a oled in a living room with the lights on.
Will there be any review or the Phillips mini led TV when it comes out?
I hate to say it but he is right. I own the LG OLED 55E7P model and watch a lot of UHD Bluray discs but my friend just bought a newer Sony OLED with 1200 nits and I was blown away by the HDR highlights.
I have 2 OLEDS and have been saying this for years: it’s not bright enough! Rn I’m playing Cold War on PS5 and it’s a huge decrease in brightness whenever HDR is on! Don’t get me wrong, it’s still amazing and I love it, but always wish it was brighter, even in dark rooms. Seems like QLED has a better balance right now if you’re looking for a tv and use HDR mainly.
ok you made your point that 650 nits is better than 400 nit BUT is there a benefit from 650 -> 1000 ? At some point there are diminishing returns and if the creator mastered the content for 650 nits peak brightness, there is no big benefit to have more brightness. Even in your own bluray review we see that peak brightness rarely even uses 1000 nits.
Not every single frame of a movie has to reach 1000 nits. Those that do will be more impactful on a display that can reproduce a higher level of brightness. It is thrilling to watch bright scenes of my own HDR videos on my 1200 nit iPhone 12 Pro Max in a way that my LG 55CX can't match.
But there are several titles that exceed that, so on OLED it would be much more beneficial. The 20% increase in brightness, could mean a higher APL of 200 nits(evidence in films released recently), and little to no tone mapping for content graded with peaks as high as 1000 nits.
If 650 nits is perfect for you, don't change it.
If the movie has details that needs 2000 nits, you need tv that can show 2000 nits to show those details!
So 1000 nits tv does show more of those 2000 nits content than 650 nits tv can, but still lose a lot of them. So the better nits tv can show the better! But it depends on the content!
A movie like Blade runner 2049 where peak brighnes is 200 nits is as good with 400 Nits oled and 1300 nits oled. All details can be seen with both. So it all depends on the content!
@@haukionkannel Even if a movie has 2000 nits, it's usually just specular highlights that don't have any details.
thanks for the great information. great work as always!
Me reading the title of this video: "My LG B7 from 2017 has a peak brightness of 730 nits (or 783 nits in Cinema Home) which is enough." Me after watching this video: "Oh... damn." When the LG C10 was compared to the Sony XH90 the difference between them was even more noticeable than the first comparison between the 400nit C10 and the 650nit C10. I'm looking forward to the LG Evo G1. Great video Vincent!
Yeah the thing is any of the newer LCD TV's will crush OLED in bright HDR scenes since the 700+ nits is full screen sustained brightness whereas on the OLED it will drop down to a very small 150 nits max on OLED like Vincent says in video!
Damn the comments are riled up on here hopefully doesn't discourage him to much
This is a 'trigger' topic.
@@HealthyKlingons Yeah, people can't handle being told their $1000 TV isn't as perfect as they thought.
LCDs aren't perfect either, it seems only MicroLED is.
I dont know: It all sounds awesome. But in reality, you sit in a dark room and get blinded by the screen anyway in those scenes. I have Philips 901F that goes to 540Nits according to specs, and i dont even run it at maximum OLED brightness. And i use the ECO mode most of the time with the external sensor to lower the brightness when the room is dark. Otherwise my yes get tired fast.
@HDTVTest Vincent, please ask me a question.
A TV with approximately 300 to 500 Nits with dolby visiom, is not able to extract the full potential of this technology, does this mean that WE WILL HAVE NO BENEFITS from having Dolby Vision on this TV? For example, comparing a Q80T with approximately 700 peak nits, with a NANO90 with approximately 400 peak NITs. we can say that a NANO90 will have a worse image than the Q80T, due to the 300 nits less. We know that most of the available content is available in DV, and that we have almost nothing in HDR10 +, is it better to buy a TV with 700 Nits and HDR10 + or a TV with 400 NITs with DV support? Thanks.
QD-OLED should address this issue or will it?
Thank you Vincent for all the great videos.
Vincent just broke a million hearts 😭
😂😂😂
Why? He's still using OLED himself. OLED is superior tech by a mile over the dated LCD tech.
@@Dr.WhetFarts No, it isn't. :)
Thanks for making this, now I know when 4000 nits becomes available I should consider upgrading.
Looking at the sun will give you that many nits
The Samsung QLED Q900 boasts 4000 nits in Dynamic Mode. It's been out for 2-3 years.
@@abandoned-mines-novascotia And it was $15,000.
Held off on getting an OLED in 2020, but gonna try to this year. Got excited to hear LG releasing the 83 inch in C1, but the G1 is supposedly brighter this year, and without an 83 model. Now I'm torn between the two models. Will the added brightness of the G1 be significant enough to make the 77 a better buy than the C1 83?
"Bigger is better, women agree" :)
HDTV test, answer me this: Dolby Vision bright vs Dark on xh90 and other models. Which is better and why?
Yes but the whites are burning my eyes on my CX so I have to lower oled light anyways or I'll go blind
I find the same. It can get quite eye piercing at times 😂
Yup. In a dark room, I have to cut it down anyways.
That's the average picture brightness that you are lowering. We still want bright peaks
My Sony X930E is still one of the brightest TVs ever made, approaching 1,500 nits. I considered OLED, but it’s low brightness just made HDR severely underwhelming. The X930E, by comparison, is stunning with HDR. Yes, OLED is better in dark scenes, but I think that a good LED TV can get far closer to OLED blacks than an OLED can get to LED brightness. Since there are trade offs at both ends of the brightness spectrum, LED wins overall because it can cover more of the total “color volume” due to its much wider luminance range.
That “looking through a picture window” effect that is achieved with quality 4K content is far more realistic on a bright LED. There is no substitute for specular highlights that actually make you squint as in real life. That effect really causes a suspension of disbelief.
Last, but not least, after owning one of the early CRT-based HD rear projection TVs, I refuse to ever again own a TV on which I have to carefully monitor what type of programming I am watching, and how often, in order to avoid burn-in. I want a TV, not a babysitting job.
Well if anything, i guess the one thing LED still has going for it is price, until all LED's are discontinued except for maybe bottom of line models
Exactly where I come from. Also owning that mighty XE93 and Been using this as Proof to Most OLED-fans that a Higher end LED TV can create a Superior Viewing experience. I think Most people only really Know entry- or midrange Level LED Displays... And from that Point of View, I could get the wrong ideas about OLED being Superior. But what Vincent Said Here in this Video is what I am preaching for quite a few years now: OLED doesn't do bright HDR presentations Justice.
I have both x930e 65" and the x940e 75". While it's true x930e gets super bright, it does have a weakness in blooming artifact due to not being full array. On the other hand while x940e is slightly less bright, but because it has full array local dimming, I find the overall picture better (less blooming). But then x930e is better for gaming than x940e, so I use the x940e mainly for movies, and x930e for gaming.
@@matthew6994the s95c and the G3 have another idea
Does Perceptual Quantisation shift when your eyes adjust to a darker/brigher room/scene? I would imagine when you are in a sunlight filled room you require more light to see the same level of detail in dark scenes and in a dark room you require less to get the same levels of detail in high light scenes?
Have a question. I had my lg cx calibrated and it looks great. But I'm wondering what is recommended for the peak brightness setting on cx for sdr, dolby vision and other hdr content? Should it be off, set to high, etc?
Usually the dynamic setting will give you the best brightness on most tvs.
Little late, but peak brightness should be off for SDR and on high for HDR.
I would argue that a sudden fullscreen whiteout of 150nits while watching a movie in a dark room is already blasting pure pain into my eyes. Can't imagine the same scene at several hundred nits. That said, I'm definitely in favor of following creative intent, and if the creative intent is for my eyes to melt down onto my cheeks, then I do want a screen that enables that. For now, this OLED will have to suffice.
I've finally found it, after 15 years. The scroll of truth!
Vincent: You're oled tv is not bright enough for HDR.
Me: NYEHHH
Your
Your = Possessive. You're = Contraction for You are.
@@thrummer1953 Hotel? Trivago.
Than what tv will be best for ps5 or new xbox?
Really informative, thanks !
Vincent just demonstrated that higher peak brightness is better for OLED; for HDR. A thousand nits OLED is better the usual 700 nits models. That's all he mainly said. Now the OLED fanatics are mad!
Vincent likes Brazilian carnival... What a surprise haha
Vincant fan da globo
What is the peak brightness of a panasonic fz-800e?
Awesome video! Now makes me want to get the new LG OLED G1, but I have to figure out what to do with my LG OLED77CXPUA. I just wish they made it in 83 inch, maybe I just wait till next year to upgrade.
Get the new sony instead better motion
Alright, ya called me out Vincent and touche, I obviously just didn't understand how peak brightness on HDR worked apparently and the compression of highlight detail when below the mastering that the movie used. I stand corrected and I bow to your knowledge about the intricate details associated with these technologies. I was using caveman brain logic that "brighter is just mor brighterer" and didn't think about PQ curves or crushed highlights. I still think my Oled is plenty bright for HDR for me with tone mapping, but I can see your point now, the brighter the better for HDR up unto the mastering levels used
Sorry, it was not our intent to call you (or anyone) out. We were just screenshotting comments that prompted us to make this video to explain the reason why peak brightness is important for accurate reproduction of HDR highlight detail.
@@hdtvtest no way, call me out, I was wrong haha, I have no issue with it at all. I'm glad you corrected me and the others. I'm not so proud as to not admit when I'm wrong
Also keep up the good work Vincent!
Finally a grown up response. Thank you!
It’s amazing how personal people take it when someone points out a fault in their technology of choice.🤦♂️
I love my LG c9 and think it's plenty bright in my dungeon of a home theater room . I look forward to the Sony a90j to really see how much better, if any it will be in the same room.
Thanks for the video Vincent and info.
I love my lg b9. Have never questioned whether or not if it is bright enough. Colors just pop.
Why not have this test between a Panasonic GZ or HZ 2OOO and an LG CX? would we have seen a more fragile difference? thank you
Love your videos. I'm waiting for your reviews of the new Oled TV's with the new, brighter panel. Then I'm going to pick one. LG, Sony or Panasonic.
There's a bit more to it then just purchasing a TV that has the brightest panel, i found that with my last QLED TV before upgrading to the CX, the difference is night and day better in all aspects
I don't understand why all these comments are complaining about your views..... They CLEARLY don't watch all your videos when you have always expressed extreme praise for the extremely bright backlit led tvs for bright HDR presentations. All he is doing is telling how important the new developments in brightness in OLED panels next year is a huge deal!
Yes OLED is king for contrast because of true black but he is only pointing out the obvious that having a tv not being able to properly display brighter highlights or fullscreen brightness. He is not a sell out lol, he literally has talked about stuff like this in the past. Like does no one remember is discussion of ABL and everything else. And at the end he shows literal proof of past examples of the shortcomings of OLED tech. That's why making oleds brighter is super important because it's helping to close the gap of OLED vs LED on brighter scenes.
Could you please do an LG cx recommended settings for Dolby vision, hdr, and standard
Bro, Let's discuss about TCL QLED New Series (C825 Mini LED, C725, C728 Models 2021).
And tell me, Is worth for TCL Brand QLED Tvs?
Vincent hello tell me please I want to buy a TV of 75 diagonal I will watch it with a distance of 2.5 m is it normal or take a 65?)
Every time I make a move they make another move
Bastard technology, if only it can stay still.....
The speculative caracter of capitalism right there.
@@Extirpo
What a random and meaningless input.
Just when i thought i was out, they pull me back in..
@@Extirpo for real god damn capitalism... always making better products for me to choose from.