What do you think? Should it be built? Or left alone? And yes, my hands were super clean and I cleaned the boards afterwards to prevent further corrosion. :)
I'd look into recreating the missing boards and improving upon the outdated power supply, it's a kit so it was meant to be customised. There's pristine examples of stock 8800s out there, but imo they fail to represent what the golden era micros were about - this was the time people truly "made" their own PCs, everyone did something different to theirs and that really made them personal computers.
Looks like the writing at the bottom of the page @ 13:31 is a 1 in a circle with the words "possible trouble". The word written closer to the top of the page appears to say "backwards".
Like you I had wanted to get one of these or an IMSAI for decades and my main reason was not to have an original "Altair" or "IMSAI", but instead to play around with CP/M programming in MBASIC and C on big ol' blinkilights box. Just like in the old days. So, more a nostalgic trip down memory lane than getting my hands on an unreliable 45 yo machine that I shouldn't be playing with anyway because it's too valuable to end up damaging it. In any case ones I saw were either too expensive or too badly beat up. I even had your other idea of getting it piece by piece, but never seemed to find the right opportunities. However, just recently I achieved my goals by getting one of deramp's 8800c kits and populating it with the boards he recommends. I also got one the the IMSAI 8080 simulators from The High Nibble in Australia. Now I'm all set for CP/M. Next .. its a PidP-11!!!
@@TechTimeTraveller I already had the IMSAI "clone" so went with the S100 replica. I have it the back of my mind to build some S100 interfaces and possibly a new and improved 8080 CPU card. For no particularly good reason other than it might be fun.
I'll tell ya what is going on with the prices across the board on vintage stuff. TH-cam, hipsters and vintage tech channels. I didn't say stop tho. XD LOL
I would say build it. You've got a TH-cam channel so you can document and showcase its use. That's more important than preserving an incomplete kit. As for the PSU, always go with something modern imo. It's worth it for the cleaner power and safer implementation. In the end though it's your kit now, do what you want with it.
In terms of locating a system in Canada from which you can get measurements, have you considered e.g. The National Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa? Obviously they are not going to loan original hardware, but they may be willing to either provide access or have a staff member make the necessary measurements. Given the rarity of this hardware, an institutional collection seems to be a more likely source than a private collection. (Sadly, the Personal Computer Museum in Brantford closed a few years ago when the founder died without having made a succession plan.)
I had to go watch the deramp5113 video , I love teletypes. My mom owned a travel agency, and I'd fall asleep on a couch in the backroom while doing my homework . Like being serenaded by robots lol.
I love the IMSAI also.. especially the whole crazy story behind it and its founder, Bill Millard. I do hope to get one one day.. before they also rise to five thousand plus dollars.
About 20 years ago I sold my Rev 0 Altair 8800 complete with all manuals 256 bytes RAM, serial II I/O. All working for $1500. I miss it.....still have my maxed out Z80 S100 system wire wrapped ROM and I/O board with cassette and dual 8" floppy drives.
At the moment no.. I have been contemplating something of that nature but at the moment am stretched with my day job. I had considered starting or joining a subreddit at least though.
Thousands of people restore vintage cars. They don't use original paint, tires, brake pads, upholstery, etc. Use what you can find and fabricate what you can't as close as you can practically. The switching power supplies is a great example. Safer but still running original Altair CPU board and hardware. Use the repro base or mother board. If you ever come across an original, you could swap it out if you want. Bottom line is get it running :)
If you’re willing to build your own PCBs there are websites with the schematics for backplane computers. There’s no reason for you to spend a lot of money for a brand name one.
Hi! Generation alpha here! That computer is so big it must be really fast! I'm getting worked up just thinking about all of the adult stuff I can do with it! And video games I can download from steam and play online!
In 2021, the chip shortage was so bad that a $5k relic from the Stone Age was the cheapest and most powerful crypto mining rig anyone could realistically obtain.
Since the 17 year patent expired decades ago, there is probably a business opportunity for someone willing to assemble Altair 8800s or ready to assemble kits.
I've always been intrigued about the paper tape input device - what Paul Allen loaded that famous BASIC from. Wonder if there are any of those still around that work
"I got a kit with only 1K of RAM and a front panel." "You did? What can you do with it?" "I can, uh, make some of the lights blink in cool patterns." "Dude, I never thought I'd say this, but you may have gone TOO retro".
Its pretty much ebays “fault”. When these computers were traded at the flea markets and local tech clubs, the market was pretty limited and prices were low. With ebay, the market is worldwide and if someone wants it more and has more money, the prices go up. Now that im older and miss these computers more, i could kick myself for throwing out my old computer collection in the 90’s. Even vic-20’s, which used to go 5 dollars at flea markets are $100+ now, usually. Your altair is a real find. Hope you get it running someday. That 1975 article in pop electronics about the altair was what got me started in computers.
The first kits were offered in a installment plan. Each month you received one building block, such as CPU board, then power supply, front panel, etc. the last package was the expensive chips like the 8080 chip. When I ordered my kit I received a letter stating that shipment would take additional six weeks because they were developing a plug-in bus instead of hardwiring between each of the cards.
@@TechTimeTraveller it’s possible. Remember that the 8080 in 1975 was something like $400. Currently I am restoring a IMSAI 8080 computer I bought from eBay. The seller just took a few cards (Non-functioning cpu, random unknown memory card, sio-2 card, modem card, bus extender card) and put them into A IMSAI chassis with a German 220v case fan.
For recreating I'd use PCBs that have visual mark they ain't original. They do this during restoration of really old buildings they leave marks what's original and what is new like putting astronaut as gargoyle.
I think the cave wall should be for anyone to leave their mark. Have at it, have fun and someone in the future can find your Altair and ponder at your decisions and doodles in the manual. Perhaps print the ebay listings and add them to the file.
bought an Altair 8800 decades ago. completed the project. couldn't handle all the switch flipping so into storage it went. that's all I remember. since you bought one recently perhaps you could give me some advice on selling one now.
You will profit handsomely if it's an 8800, especially a Rev 0. They routinely go for $5000+ on ebay, which is generally the best venue to sell them. If you'd like help I'm happy to do that gratis, I'd buy it myself if I could afford it. But I can help figure out what you have and price appropriately. Email is brad (at) techtimetraveller (dot) com
In the event, I have spoken to a few kit builders and there appears to be some movement towards the goal of replicating the chassis. I may even try to pick up a Turnkey or other model of Altair to get measurements from (and use) as prices on those are still reasonable and the internal chassis, except for the front and back panels, is essentially the same.
It's all about the "midlife cycle of nostalgia", the males that are now around midlife have great desire to buy things of their younger years, they have money to spend so that is why now those machines are populair, in about 30-50 years will be current tech that will be raise in price because after decades of low secondhand prices or not even sellable at all.
Very true. There is some debate about how much this current vintage gear will be worth as people with living memory of it being current pass on. I personally don't think I'll ever get nostalgic about a Dell or Intel NUC but I can imagine there will be people who do. I sometimes wonder if nostalgia is a good or bad thing really. I sometimes feel like we should be focused on the future. But for me the 21st century so far hasn't given me anything like an Atari 800. :)
You are absolutely correct. The price of a MITS Altair has sky rocked over the last year. From around 2-2.5K to now over 5K. Not to mention they are getting really hard to find. I am glad I got mine, when I did. Yu can check it out, along with all my other vintage computers and video game system on my TH-cam channel. Come take a look for yourself.
Yeah I'm really not sure why they've shot up so much lately. There haven't been any major movies etc featuring one. One friend had a theory that people have extra money with covid relief cash. Another is simply that supply has been dwindling lately like you said.
I read January 1975 Popular Electronics and yearned for an Altair. I really wanted a computer of my own but I couldn’t justify the cost of a computer that didn’t to much. Today I have a replica 8800. Not original but it quenches my thirst. I just did a presentation on the 8800 and it’s place in history to my radio club.
I have a reasonable income, but I simply cannot conceive of spending the equivalent of about six months rent on a vintage computer that, realistically, would be mainly for display purposes. There is no guarantee that prices will continue to climb, so it is not even that great as an "investment". I will never own an original Altair 8800, and I am at peace with that conclusion.
It all depends on what you define as a computer, and personal. The Micral and MCM/70 could be contenders for first microprocessor based computer, but if consider pre-microprocessor designs one could consider the Kenbak-1 as a candidate. It's tricky.
Unfortunately the clone kit parts are unusable in an original. Deramp didn't have access to the original plans for the chassis and came up with his own design. The mounts for the front and back panels are totally different unfortunately.
@@TechTimeTraveller oh i see. sorry to hear that, but i hope you manage to source the right parts eventually. if i had some, you could have them for free : )
I am working to get a front dress panel.. have most parts.. really just need a couple odds and ends to bolt it together. I just scored a front panel with switches for my altair 680 (I have the case and motherboard for one), so I might build that first.
@@TechTimeTraveller OK glad you spotted it >>> i've build mine from david hansels instructable so i didn't go insane during the lockdown ;) works great in combo with the altair duino software and a vt132 terminal
Great video. I have a complete internal chassis from an original Altair 8800bt. It's the later turnkey model but it's almost identical to the earlier chassis. The front panel of the chassis still has all the holes for the switches and LED's. Let me know how I can get in touch and we'll work something out.
Many thanks for getting in touch! I would be interested for sure.. although I have no idea how much something like that is worth. I know a complete Altair 8800bt went for about $1000 a couple months ago.. but never seen parts individually. You can email me at brad (at) techtimetraveller.com any time!
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think? Should it be built? Or left alone?
And yes, my hands were super clean and I cleaned the boards afterwards to prevent further corrosion. :)
I say build it! A complete working Altair is a good candidate for the centerpiece of the collection.
Build it. Don't use the DRAM board. It's a nightmare.
Hook the sucker up!
Definitely build it.
Yes, build it! It was meant to be a thing, not pristine parts. :)
Build it, use it some, enjoy it. The only thing more sad than an unused computer is a box full of parts.
I'd look into recreating the missing boards and improving upon the outdated power supply, it's a kit so it was meant to be customised. There's pristine examples of stock 8800s out there, but imo they fail to represent what the golden era micros were about - this was the time people truly "made" their own PCs, everyone did something different to theirs and that really made them personal computers.
Definite build. I think seeing the line where the original parts and modern substitutions meet is illustrative in itself.
Looks like the writing at the bottom of the page @ 13:31 is a 1 in a circle with the words "possible trouble". The word written closer to the top of the page appears to say "backwards".
Thank you. I had another look and I concur. I should check and see if he caught something from the errata or if he figured this error out on his own.
Like you I had wanted to get one of these or an IMSAI for decades and my main reason was not to have an original "Altair" or "IMSAI", but instead to play around with CP/M programming in MBASIC and C on big ol' blinkilights box. Just like in the old days. So, more a nostalgic trip down memory lane than getting my hands on an unreliable 45 yo machine that I shouldn't be playing with anyway because it's too valuable to end up damaging it. In any case ones I saw were either too expensive or too badly beat up. I even had your other idea of getting it piece by piece, but never seemed to find the right opportunities. However, just recently I achieved my goals by getting one of deramp's 8800c kits and populating it with the boards he recommends. I also got one the the IMSAI 8080 simulators from The High Nibble in Australia. Now I'm all set for CP/M. Next .. its a PidP-11!!!
I do intend to buy one of the clones myself.. I love the 'empty case' version of it.. just illustrates how far we have come.
@@TechTimeTraveller I already had the IMSAI "clone" so went with the S100 replica. I have it the back of my mind to build some S100 interfaces and possibly a new and improved 8080 CPU card. For no particularly good reason other than it might be fun.
I'll tell ya what is going on with the prices across the board on vintage stuff. TH-cam, hipsters and vintage tech channels. I didn't say stop tho. XD LOL
I'd say build it! and where did you find a 680 case?
They come up from time to time on ebay. I've actually seen three or four of them over the last few years.
I would say build it. You've got a TH-cam channel so you can document and showcase its use. That's more important than preserving an incomplete kit. As for the PSU, always go with something modern imo. It's worth it for the cleaner power and safer implementation. In the end though it's your kit now, do what you want with it.
Thank you. I'm very close to being able to. I just need the front dress panel and some odds and ends and I can start putting it together
In terms of locating a system in Canada from which you can get measurements, have you considered e.g. The National Science and Technology Museum in Ottawa? Obviously they are not going to loan original hardware, but they may be willing to either provide access or have a staff member make the necessary measurements. Given the rarity of this hardware, an institutional collection seems to be a more likely source than a private collection. (Sadly, the Personal Computer Museum in Brantford closed a few years ago when the founder died without having made a succession plan.)
I had to go watch the deramp5113 video , I love teletypes. My mom owned a travel agency, and I'd fall asleep on a couch in the backroom while doing my homework . Like being serenaded by robots lol.
I’m more of a Imsia 8080 person myself but respect to you getting unbuilt Altair 8800 kit.
I love the IMSAI also.. especially the whole crazy story behind it and its founder, Bill Millard. I do hope to get one one day.. before they also rise to five thousand plus dollars.
@@TechTimeTraveller I know I’m glad I kept hold of mine because I won’t pay the price of one now especially for one in the uk.
About 20 years ago I sold my Rev 0 Altair 8800 complete with all manuals 256 bytes RAM, serial II I/O. All working for $1500. I miss it.....still have my maxed out Z80 S100 system wire wrapped ROM and I/O board with cassette and dual 8" floppy drives.
Yeah those are going for like $6000 now. I regret not buying sooner.
Hi! Do you happen to have a platform like discord where we can talk to you?
At the moment no.. I have been contemplating something of that nature but at the moment am stretched with my day job. I had considered starting or joining a subreddit at least though.
I've always wanted an Altair 8800 and I've noticed the same thing.. the price stays just outside of my range of affordability.
Definitely build it, have fun and earn your bragging rights :)
Thousands of people restore vintage cars. They don't use original paint, tires, brake pads, upholstery, etc. Use what you can find and fabricate what you can't as close as you can practically. The switching power supplies is a great example. Safer but still running original Altair CPU board and hardware. Use the repro base or mother board. If you ever come across an original, you could swap it out if you want. Bottom line is get it running :)
If you’re willing to build your own PCBs there are websites with the schematics for backplane computers. There’s no reason for you to spend a lot of money for a brand name one.
Hi! Generation alpha here! That computer is so big it must be really fast! I'm getting worked up just thinking about all of the adult stuff I can do with it! And video games I can download from steam and play online!
In 2021, the chip shortage was so bad that a $5k relic from the Stone Age was the cheapest and most powerful crypto mining rig anyone could realistically obtain.
Since the 17 year patent expired decades ago, there is probably a business opportunity for someone willing to assemble Altair 8800s or ready to assemble kits.
I've always been intrigued about the paper tape input device - what Paul Allen loaded that famous BASIC from. Wonder if there are any of those still around that work
"I got a kit with only 1K of RAM and a front panel."
"You did? What can you do with it?"
"I can, uh, make some of the lights blink in cool patterns."
"Dude, I never thought I'd say this, but you may have gone TOO retro".
Its pretty much ebays “fault”. When these computers were traded at the flea markets and local tech clubs, the market was pretty limited and prices were low. With ebay, the market is worldwide and if someone wants it more and has more money, the prices go up. Now that im older and miss these computers more, i could kick myself for throwing out my old computer collection in the 90’s. Even vic-20’s, which used to go 5 dollars at flea markets are $100+ now, usually. Your altair is a real find. Hope you get it running someday. That 1975 article in pop electronics about the altair was what got me started in computers.
if you can't get a ZILOG Z80A then what about a FPGA version of the ZILOG Z80A.
My thought is build it and get it working. Having it sit and collect dust does no one any good. I am working on reverse engineering an IMSAI 8080.
The first kits were offered in a installment plan. Each month you received one building block, such as CPU board, then power supply, front panel, etc. the last package was the expensive chips like the 8080 chip.
When I ordered my kit I received a letter stating that shipment would take additional six weeks because they were developing a plug-in bus instead of hardwiring between each of the cards.
Ahhh.. so maybe this never had the other parts?
@@TechTimeTraveller it’s possible. Remember that the 8080 in 1975 was something like $400.
Currently I am restoring a IMSAI 8080 computer I bought from eBay. The seller just took a few cards
(Non-functioning cpu, random unknown memory card, sio-2 card, modem card, bus extender card) and put them into
A IMSAI chassis with a German 220v case fan.
For recreating I'd use PCBs that have visual mark they ain't original. They do this during restoration of really old buildings they leave marks what's original and what is new like putting astronaut as gargoyle.
Build it. Preserving and replicating the design is far more important than the provenance of the parts you use.
Built it as much as possible. Greetings from Karachi. Pakistan
I think the cave wall should be for anyone to leave their mark. Have at it, have fun and someone in the future can find your Altair and ponder at your decisions and doodles in the manual. Perhaps print the ebay listings and add them to the file.
I sent a Facebook message to you about some Altair stuff. Didn't know if you had a chance to see it.
Build it with the reproduction parts and sub in originals when they come up. Or don't.
Yes. Build it, it looks like a fun, but long term, project.
Build it with modern parts and replace them with original down the road.
I wonder if a company where to produce this kit today, what sort of cost it would rrp at ?
No dirty power, no fool on the hill. ALLEGEDLY
bought an Altair 8800 decades ago. completed the project. couldn't handle all the switch flipping so into storage it went. that's all I remember. since you bought one recently perhaps you could give me some advice on selling one now.
You will profit handsomely if it's an 8800, especially a Rev 0. They routinely go for $5000+ on ebay, which is generally the best venue to sell them. If you'd like help I'm happy to do that gratis, I'd buy it myself if I could afford it. But I can help figure out what you have and price appropriately. Email is brad (at) techtimetraveller (dot) com
What's your take on buying an Altair clone?
Seems ripe for someone to build a Pi/Pico clone of it.
On the internal chassis: see if there is a TH-camr with one who is willing to take measurements. Then it turns into a collaboration video.🙂
In the event, I have spoken to a few kit builders and there appears to be some movement towards the goal of replicating the chassis. I may even try to pick up a Turnkey or other model of Altair to get measurements from (and use) as prices on those are still reasonable and the internal chassis, except for the front and back panels, is essentially the same.
At 13:31: "D possible trouble".
It's all about the "midlife cycle of nostalgia", the males that are now around midlife have great desire to buy things of their younger years, they have money to spend so that is why now those machines are populair, in about 30-50 years will be current tech that will be raise in price because after decades of low secondhand prices or not even sellable at all.
Very true. There is some debate about how much this current vintage gear will be worth as people with living memory of it being current pass on. I personally don't think I'll ever get nostalgic about a Dell or Intel NUC but I can imagine there will be people who do.
I sometimes wonder if nostalgia is a good or bad thing really. I sometimes feel like we should be focused on the future. But for me the 21st century so far hasn't given me anything like an Atari 800. :)
You are absolutely correct. The price of a MITS Altair has sky rocked over the last year. From around 2-2.5K to now over 5K. Not to mention they are getting really hard to find.
I am glad I got mine, when I did. Yu can check it out, along with all my other vintage computers and video game system on my TH-cam channel. Come take a look for yourself.
Yeah I'm really not sure why they've shot up so much lately. There haven't been any major movies etc featuring one. One friend had a theory that people have extra money with covid relief cash. Another is simply that supply has been dwindling lately like you said.
@@TechTimeTraveller It looks like IMSAI's have been moving up as well. They used to be around $1200-$1600 now they are up to around $2600.
I read January 1975 Popular Electronics and yearned for an Altair. I really wanted a computer of my own but I couldn’t justify the cost of a computer that didn’t to much. Today I have a replica 8800. Not original but it quenches my thirst. I just did a presentation on the 8800 and it’s place in history to my radio club.
You and me both. I restored a 8800. Working on making a modern day floppy controller to work with 3.5 inch drives
I have a reasonable income, but I simply cannot conceive of spending the equivalent of about six months rent on a vintage computer that, realistically, would be mainly for display purposes. There is no guarantee that prices will continue to climb, so it is not even that great as an "investment". I will never own an original Altair 8800, and I am at peace with that conclusion.
I'd say build it, use modern replacements where possible but obviously labelled as modern replacement
Well thats nice to hear!
Who do you give credit to, for building the First Personal Computer. The Micral N, using the 8008 processor?
It all depends on what you define as a computer, and personal. The Micral and MCM/70 could be contenders for first microprocessor based computer, but if consider pre-microprocessor designs one could consider the Kenbak-1 as a candidate. It's tricky.
@@TechTimeTraveller Love the MCM/70 way ahead of its time !!!
Build it, mod it, and max it out. Would be a cool project, and an awesome video series.
you know that deramp is selling reproduction units right? maybe something in those that you could use?
Unfortunately the clone kit parts are unusable in an original. Deramp didn't have access to the original plans for the chassis and came up with his own design. The mounts for the front and back panels are totally different unfortunately.
@@TechTimeTraveller oh i see. sorry to hear that, but i hope you manage to source the right parts eventually. if i had some, you could have them for free : )
Well done! I like the idea of collecting parts piecemeal.
Any updates on the Altair?
I am working to get a front dress panel.. have most parts.. really just need a couple odds and ends to bolt it together. I just scored a front panel with switches for my altair 680 (I have the case and motherboard for one), so I might build that first.
there is a case front panel and power supply on ebay now
Yes.. I am in on that one. We will see if it goes for something reasonable.
@@TechTimeTraveller OK glad you spotted it >>> i've build mine from david hansels instructable so i didn't go insane during the lockdown ;)
works great in combo with the altair duino software and a vt132 terminal
Great video. I have a complete internal chassis from an original Altair 8800bt. It's the later turnkey model but it's almost identical to the earlier chassis. The front panel of the chassis still has all the holes for the switches and LED's. Let me know how I can get in touch and we'll work something out.
Many thanks for getting in touch! I would be interested for sure.. although I have no idea how much something like that is worth. I know a complete Altair 8800bt went for about $1000 a couple months ago.. but never seen parts individually. You can email me at brad (at) techtimetraveller.com any time!
@@TechTimeTraveller No problem, I'll send through some pics.