Yes, very helpful... especially your final comment: "I don't really like flying out of an LTE... too difficult & too easy to screw that up" Agree 100% ! ... full right pedal, and if that doesn't work, roll off the throttle. Spot on.
Ken & Dan....I've never been in a full blown LTE position, but when you start feeling a Starboard side wind pushing...hell I just immediately lowered the Collective cut power and set it down. Was not going to play with that!
This is why pilots are type rated and not just one licence fits all. My helicopter has a ducted fan and large vertical stabilisers along with a girthy tail boom. With it's clockwise rotation I must watch out for winds from the left.
Clockwise rotation makes more sense and relates to muscle memory of driving a car. Power equals right foot down. Applying your left foot when applying power seems strange. A helicopter is already set up like a car, fly from the right side, handbrake/gearstick (collective) on the left and steering wheel (cyclic) with right hand.
I find it interesting that you guys are referring to main rotor rotation direction as clockwise and counterclockwise. I fly RC model helicopters and we refer to rotor rotation direction in the same way because when it's on the ground, we're looking down on a model helicopter from above and the direction of rotation is viewed from that perspective so clockwise/counterclockwise works. Way back in the beginning of my learning process with the models, I had the opportunity to talk to a commercial rated 1:1 scale pilot and when I referred to the rotational direction of the rotor as clockwise/counterclockwise, he seemed a little indignant and stated that from his perspective, the correct way to reference rotational direction was "right to left" or "left to right" as viewed the cockpit. That made sense to me at the time so I'm curious how it came to be that you are using the clockwise/counterclockwise reference?
@@HelicopterGround - Interesting, thanks for the reply. It certainly wasn't for that one guy but that was back the the mid 80's and I've not had that issue with anyone else. Then again, I don't often get the opportunity to have any significant conversations with the 1:1 scale pilots.
Kenny, you definitely want a right cross wind in the Cabri! You “can not” get tail rotor vortex ring state In the fenestron helicopter. This is not a traditional tail rotor. Everything that is being said is correct as it relates to a traditional tail rotor. In the cabri you have to account for that huge vertical stabilizer relatively speaking. The nose naturally wants to drift left so having a right crosswind takes advantage of the vertical fin and gives a significant boost in power. You don’t get tail rotor vortex ring state because the fan breaks up the vortices at the tips and doesn’t allow for low angles of attack in the tail rotor! I have seen to many cabri crashes from traditional tail rotor pilots not understanding the characteristics of this machine. Please give us a call at precison the US dealer of the cabri and we can elaborate! I’d be happy to help. I think there is a serious lack of understanding of the flight characteristics of the fenestron. Less focus on clockwise rotation more on fenestron characteristics is imperative! This is terrific instruction and great video I am only trying to give constructive feedback and help pilot community understand this relatively new design.
I'm sure Chris will want to jump in the conversation. He did his factory authorized training I believe with your company there at Precision. I'm new to the Cabri and Chris is familiarizing me! Thanks for the feedback!
Hey Trent... Thank you for the compliment. Kenny and I are trying to get some great instructional videos out there for people to watch and learn!! As far as you "can not get LTE (unanticipated yaw) in a Fenestron", I would disagree. First, review the Helicopter Flying Handbook. It states: "LTE can affect all single-rotor helicopters that utilize a tail rotor. The design of main and tail rotor blades and the tail boom assembly can affect the characteristics and susceptibility of LTE but will NOT nullify the phenomenon entirely." I would agree the G2 is less susceptible to LTE due to the fenestron, but can still occur. I also agree wind from the right is good in a high power stuck pedal situation. The difference here is you have forward airspeed to complete a run-on landing to address the emergency (stuck pedal). Second, please review Airbus Safety Notice 3297-S-00. It states: "Unanticipated yaw is a flight characteristic to which all types of single rotor helicopter (REGARDLESS of anti-torque design) can be susceptible at low speed, dependent usually on the direction and strength of the wind relative to the helicopter." In this Safety Notice, Airbus notes which aircraft are addressed. They list the EC120 and EC130, both of which have the fenestron tail system. I would believe if a bigger aircraft with bigger vertical stabilizers can get into LTE/Unanticipated yaw, then so can the G2. Examples: 8/3/2018 EC130 accident; LTE, 1/19/2019 EC130 accident; LTE. Thanks for watching and commenting, Trent, again appreciate compliment.
@@christopherhouser6935 Again, just as Trent said above, I'm also not trying to be a keyboard warrior but I would suggest reading the Cabri G2 Service Letter 12-001 Yaw Control in Approach. You are flying Guimbal's helicopter and the manufacturer found it important enough to put out an entire service letter on the subject. They state that the Cabri "is immune to stall and to vortex-ring state commonly referred to as LTE". Guimbal must feel strongly on this matter because it is the only line in the entire service letter to be written in bold font. I would suggest contacting Precision for more clarification or contacting Guimbal directly. Just like Trent, I am not trying to attack you as an instructor or as a person. I do not know you and I wish you only the best. Cheers!
@@dgilli6119 Thank you David for not attacking my character since you don't know me. I will not attack yours either since I don't know you. I have instructed in many different makes/models and I always teach LTE, so I am not going to exclude it while instructing in the G2. I think it is a very bold statement to state that something is 100% immune. I have read Guimbal's Service Letter12-001. I find it confusing they state "and of other helicopters equipped with a Fenestron.....is immune". Which Fenestron helicopters are they talking about? Airbus clearly thinks their Fenestron tail systems are susceptible to LTE. Again, the Helicopter Flying Handbook, when discussing LTE does not mention "all single rotor helicopters that utilize a tail rotor, EXCEPT the Guimbal G2, are susceptible to LTE". The Helicopter Flying Handbook is "The Bible" when it comes to instructing. They found it important enough to add the Vuichard Method of Recovery for Vortex Ring State, but they haven't decided to add a note about LTE not being an issue with the Guimbal? I understand Guimbal is not an Airbus (EC120/130, etc), but same designer. On a side note, there was an accident with a G2 in Texas on 1/30/2016 and the NTSB stated as Probable Cause: "The pilot's inadequate compensation for wind during a hover-taxi and his failure to maintain helicopter control due to a loss of tail rotor effectiveness." Thanks for commenting. And I too, wish you the best!
Why shouldn't we lower the collective but roll off the throttle instead? To my understanding, lower the collective will also reduce tourque, and can regain altitude quicker than rolling off throttle.
rotor direction right, right pedal, avoid wind from the right, left (or anticlockwise) is left left left, i will never understand why instructors just try to confuse you
That's all good and well a couple feet from the ground at lift off, but what about on a down wind or side wind approach? Ive flown a number of hours and have found below 30 knots they become tricky to handle, unless directly into wind, unlike the Hughes 269. Ive had a full tail stall at a few hundred feet which left me pointing at the ground with zero airspeed and under full power, what saved me besides slamming in full right pedal was dropping it straight into auto to get the nose level. Not a pleasant feeling. And yes, it happens very rapidly with the Cabri. Question though, did you have the governor engaged when rolling the throttle off that close to the ground?
Hello Kenny,Thank you for this very interesting lesson. Can you write me (time 11 minutes) what is the 3 actions in case of the lost of tail efficiency : First right padel,if no response second and third,i didn’t understand very well your american language on the video .Can you write me please?regards. Jean-Christophe,owner of a Cabri in FRANCE.
Undestood,so second case intent to increase forward speed by pushing down cyclic if the situation permits it. The third case is in the flight manual in tail failure case=>reduce throttle in order to reduce left yaw rate and apply collective pitch up before contact with the ground. Every situation depends of conditions of course. Regards. Jean-Christophe
If you transition into hover-autorotation , then you risk developing ground resonance upon skids touching down. But now you have to get throttle up before collective up to take/off.
Lovely Video on lte , can you do the exact same video but with an outside the aircraft camera? That would really give a great view of the effectiveness of the recovery manoeuvres. Great job 👍
Did my private in a G2. Wish you would have mentioned the fact that the fenestron has different situations for LTE. Or maybe is less likely to get into certain kinds of LTE due to the ducted fan.
Excellent, I learn another way to stop a LTE... but sorry to be blunt, I would say: don't think about clock/ or not rotor motion, but fly with your ass...as in old days, you should be able reacting along with helicopter behaviour. Do you agree Kenny? Cheers
This term “hover auto” has been used for years in the industry. However, the PTS properly refers to it as “power failure in a hover” which accurately describes it. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, very helpful... especially your final comment: "I don't really like flying out of an LTE... too difficult & too easy to screw that up" Agree 100% ! ... full right pedal, and if that doesn't work, roll off the throttle. Spot on.
Thanks for commenting
Hey Kenny I just got my b212 endorsement so stoked
Awesome Garreth !
Thank you so much. Great learning video. I'm at about 30 hours learning to fly the g2. This was really helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
You lucky dog! I wouldn't want to learn in any other helicopter and after I get my helo rating it will be the only helo I will fly.
Thanks HOGS for posting ! Very informative !
Thank you Striker744!
Ken & Dan....I've never been in a full blown LTE position, but when you start feeling a Starboard side wind pushing...hell I just immediately lowered the Collective cut power and set it down. Was not going to play with that!
Thank You!
Thanks online ground school🙏💓
Thank you!
I don't remember this in my training in a R-22. I was train years and years ago. Interesting.
Thanks for commenting.
I think we're (humans) are still learning these things everyday
Thanks thanks for the video keep it up!
Thank you 😎
This is why pilots are type rated and not just one licence fits all. My helicopter has a ducted fan and large vertical stabilisers along with a girthy tail boom. With it's clockwise rotation I must watch out for winds from the left.
Thanks for the feedback
Top! I love flying on cabri! Thanks for video
Glad you enjoyed!
Thank you Kenny.
Great Lessons
Thank you David!
Clockwise rotation makes more sense and relates to muscle memory of driving a car. Power equals right foot down. Applying your left foot when applying power seems strange. A helicopter is already set up like a car, fly from the right side, handbrake/gearstick (collective) on the left and steering wheel (cyclic) with right hand.
Thanks for the feedback!
Great Vids as always!
Thank you!
Kenny. We saw your nervous face. I would feel the same.
That was fun! Just caught me off guard! Thanks for commenting!
Great Video! Thank you.
You are welcome.
I find it interesting that you guys are referring to main rotor rotation direction as clockwise and counterclockwise. I fly RC model helicopters and we refer to rotor rotation direction in the same way because when it's on the ground, we're looking down on a model helicopter from above and the direction of rotation is viewed from that perspective so clockwise/counterclockwise works. Way back in the beginning of my learning process with the models, I had the opportunity to talk to a commercial rated 1:1 scale pilot and when I referred to the rotational direction of the rotor as clockwise/counterclockwise, he seemed a little indignant and stated that from his perspective, the correct way to reference rotational direction was "right to left" or "left to right" as viewed the cockpit. That made sense to me at the time so I'm curious how it came to be that you are using the clockwise/counterclockwise reference?
This is the standard terminology in the helicopter industry.
@@HelicopterGround - Interesting, thanks for the reply. It certainly wasn't for that one guy but that was back the the mid 80's and I've not had that issue with anyone else. Then again, I don't often get the opportunity to have any significant conversations with the 1:1 scale pilots.
Kenny, you definitely want a right cross wind in the Cabri! You “can not” get tail rotor vortex ring state In the fenestron helicopter. This is not a traditional tail rotor. Everything that is being said is correct as it relates to a traditional tail rotor. In the cabri you have to account for that huge vertical stabilizer relatively speaking. The nose naturally wants to drift left so having a right crosswind takes advantage of the vertical fin and gives a significant boost in power. You don’t get tail rotor vortex ring state because the fan breaks up the vortices at the tips and doesn’t allow for low angles of attack in the tail rotor! I have seen to many cabri crashes from traditional tail rotor pilots not understanding the characteristics of this machine. Please give us a call at precison the US dealer of the cabri and we can elaborate! I’d be happy to help. I think there is a serious lack of understanding of the flight characteristics of the fenestron. Less focus on clockwise rotation more on fenestron characteristics is imperative! This is terrific instruction and great video I am only trying to give constructive feedback and help pilot community understand this relatively new design.
I'm sure Chris will want to jump in the conversation. He did his factory authorized training I believe with your company there at Precision. I'm new to the Cabri and Chris is familiarizing me! Thanks for the feedback!
@@HelicopterGround sounds good like I said not looking to be a keyboard warrior. Just trying to pass along what we’ve learned.
Hey Trent... Thank you for the compliment. Kenny and I are trying to get some great instructional videos out there for people to watch and learn!! As far as you "can not get LTE (unanticipated yaw) in a Fenestron", I would disagree. First, review the Helicopter Flying Handbook. It states: "LTE can affect all single-rotor helicopters that utilize a tail rotor. The design of main and tail rotor blades and the tail boom assembly can affect the characteristics and susceptibility of LTE but will NOT nullify the phenomenon entirely." I would agree the G2 is less susceptible to LTE due to the fenestron, but can still occur. I also agree wind from the right is good in a high power stuck pedal situation. The difference here is you have forward airspeed to complete a run-on landing to address the emergency (stuck pedal). Second, please review Airbus Safety Notice 3297-S-00. It states: "Unanticipated yaw is a flight characteristic to which all types of single rotor helicopter (REGARDLESS of anti-torque design) can be susceptible at low speed, dependent usually on the direction and strength of the wind relative to the helicopter." In this Safety Notice, Airbus notes which aircraft are addressed. They list the EC120 and EC130, both of which have the fenestron tail system. I would believe if a bigger aircraft with bigger vertical stabilizers can get into LTE/Unanticipated yaw, then so can the G2. Examples: 8/3/2018 EC130 accident; LTE, 1/19/2019 EC130 accident; LTE. Thanks for watching and commenting, Trent, again appreciate compliment.
@@christopherhouser6935 Again, just as Trent said above, I'm also not trying to be a keyboard warrior but I would suggest reading the Cabri G2 Service Letter 12-001 Yaw Control in Approach. You are flying Guimbal's helicopter and the manufacturer found it important enough to put out an entire service letter on the subject. They state that the Cabri "is immune to stall and to vortex-ring state commonly referred to as LTE". Guimbal must feel strongly on this matter because it is the only line in the entire service letter to be written in bold font. I would suggest contacting Precision for more clarification or contacting Guimbal directly. Just like Trent, I am not trying to attack you as an instructor or as a person. I do not know you and I wish you only the best. Cheers!
@@dgilli6119 Thank you David for not attacking my character since you don't know me. I will not attack yours either since I don't know you. I have instructed in many different makes/models and I always teach LTE, so I am not going to exclude it while instructing in the G2. I think it is a very bold statement to state that something is 100% immune. I have read Guimbal's Service Letter12-001. I find it confusing they state "and of other helicopters equipped with a Fenestron.....is immune". Which Fenestron helicopters are they talking about? Airbus clearly thinks their Fenestron tail systems are susceptible to LTE. Again, the Helicopter Flying Handbook, when discussing LTE does not mention "all single rotor helicopters that utilize a tail rotor, EXCEPT the Guimbal G2, are susceptible to LTE". The Helicopter Flying Handbook is "The Bible" when it comes to instructing. They found it important enough to add the Vuichard Method of Recovery for Vortex Ring State, but they haven't decided to add a note about LTE not being an issue with the Guimbal? I understand Guimbal is not an Airbus (EC120/130, etc), but same designer. On a side note, there was an accident with a G2 in Texas on 1/30/2016 and the NTSB stated as Probable Cause: "The pilot's inadequate compensation for wind during a hover-taxi and his failure to maintain helicopter control due to a loss of tail rotor effectiveness." Thanks for commenting. And I too, wish you the best!
Why shouldn't we lower the collective but roll off the throttle instead? To my understanding, lower the collective will also reduce tourque, and can regain altitude quicker than rolling off throttle.
rotor direction right, right pedal, avoid wind from the right, left (or anticlockwise) is left left left, i will never understand why instructors just try to confuse you
Thanks for commenting
That's all good and well a couple feet from the ground at lift off, but what about on a down wind or side wind approach? Ive flown a number of hours and have found below 30 knots they become tricky to handle, unless directly into wind, unlike the Hughes 269.
Ive had a full tail stall at a few hundred feet which left me pointing at the ground with zero airspeed and under full power, what saved me besides slamming in full right pedal was dropping it straight into auto to get the nose level. Not a pleasant feeling.
And yes, it happens very rapidly with the Cabri.
Question though, did you have the governor engaged when rolling the throttle off that close to the ground?
Thanks for the feedback! We did not turn the governor off.
God you make it look too easy!
Thanks for commenting!
Hello Kenny,Thank you for this very interesting lesson.
Can you write me (time 11 minutes) what is the 3 actions in case of the lost of tail efficiency :
First right padel,if no response second and third,i didn’t understand very well your american language on the video .Can you write me please?regards.
Jean-Christophe,owner of a Cabri in FRANCE.
You should refer to the G2 flight manual.
Undestood,so second case intent to increase forward speed by pushing down cyclic if the situation permits it.
The third case is in the flight manual in tail failure case=>reduce throttle in order to reduce left yaw rate and apply collective pitch up before contact with the ground.
Every situation depends of conditions of course.
Regards.
Jean-Christophe
The second case when increasing forward air speed is to stop the left yaw rate also.
Jean-Christophe.
If you transition into hover-autorotation , then you risk developing ground resonance upon skids touching down. But now you have to get throttle up before collective up to take/off.
Thank you for the feedback!
Lovely Video on lte , can you do the exact same video but with an outside the aircraft camera? That would really give a great view of the effectiveness of the recovery manoeuvres. Great job 👍
Thank you for the wonderful feedback!
Did my private in a G2. Wish you would have mentioned the fact that the fenestron has different situations for LTE. Or maybe is less likely to get into certain kinds of LTE due to the ducted fan.
Thanks for the feedback.
Fenestron equipped helicopters are nearly almost 100% immune to LTE. CabriG2 is not the platform to demostrate it.
Thank you for the feedback!
Excellent, I learn another way to stop a LTE... but sorry to be blunt, I would say: don't think about clock/ or not rotor motion, but fly with your ass...as in old days, you should be able reacting along with helicopter behaviour.
Do you agree Kenny?
Cheers
Yes fly the aircraft. With that being said, it's very important to study and understand the differences.
A fenestron is Immune to LTE…
Thanks for the feedback.
Why do Americans call engine offs in the hover “hover autos”, when there is no auto rotation involved ?
Great video otherwise
This term “hover auto” has been used for years in the industry. However, the PTS properly refers to it as “power failure in a hover” which accurately describes it. Thanks for sharing.