Excellent video. Calm, reasoned and intelligent. I think you have done a service to prospective purchasers of the new Leaf. All I can say is 'Shame' on Nissan and what a shame; forgot the basics and rushed in with the Tech'. Thanks for posting this.
"Excellent video. Calm, reasoned and intelligent." Who cares? As long as the argument is good and it is spot-on, it is valuable information. No need for buzzwords. Stop being a leghumper.
Rapid chargers already support CCS. This directive won't change anything because it just means that new rapid chargers must include CCS which is what they do already. Chademo won't be going away any time soon especially given it is still the most used rapid-charge system in the UK used by the most popular EV, the Leaf and Hybrid, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Non-story.
Alan Sneddon by Nov 2018 all existing points must support CCS. That will mean parity. Then new points with 100kW or 150 or 350kW may or may not support the possibility of charging a Leaf at 46kW or a PHEV grabbing 22 miles.
As I've mentioned before, CCS may very well become 'the future' standard - and the EU directive will certainly assist. However it is most certainly not an issue anyone need be concerned about, especially when considering purchasing a Leaf or any other vehicle that uses Chademo DC rapid charging. Nor would I compare Chademo to Betamax (which was a far superior system compared with VHS). Personally, I think the Hyundai Ioniq, even with less battery capacity (but supports CCS/has TMS and has very efficient energy consumption) is a very viable alternative to the new Leaf.
Alan Sneddon cheers Alan. Yes Ionic seems really good and it's LiPo batteries seem highly efficient and also less affected by cold weather. They also charge really fast. Yeah Betamax was deliberate as Chad has V2G so superior in that regard. I agree that I wouldn't be too concerned if I already owned a Leaf, or was about to lease one. The only concern for me would be if I was buying one now, in 3 years time I'd expect things to have moved on considerably so I'd be worried about resale value when the country has shifted to CCS. #rapidgate gets press but the other concern with a leaf is the need to keep the key in an RF pouch to stop relay attacks. Gangs are now using cheap radio equipment to boost signals, but this also applies to Range rovers, Mercs and other cars which unlock automatically by sensing the key (rather than pressing a button on the key).
I currently own a 2019 Nissan Leaf with 8500kms. It has been at the dealer for 10 weeks. They just can't seem to find what the issue is. I was driving and the following message popped up in the console (driver side). ''Maintenance on the EV vehicle. The car will not start once turned off''. Have ever heard of this message? They called me last and told me it was finally repaired. I took it out of the dealer's driway only to get the same message again after only 10 minutes!! Thanks, Pat
Excellent rant Jonathan. Totally agree with everything you said here. Nissan have “dropped a bollock” as they say. The car still meets all the needs of my day to day driving. 300 miles is the most I ever drive in one day. But still the thermal battery management should be fitted to all EV’s as standard in my eyes.
Bear in mind that these battery heat issues are cropping up in ambient temperatures around freezing right now. What will this be like in the height of summer when people will be more likely to want to do long day trips and holidays? As I mentioned on the SpeakEV forum a couple of weeks ago, I was all but ready to sign up for a 2018 Nissan LEAF, then I heard the first reports of this rapid charge blunder. I was torn. I had already had a test drive of the new LEAF and loved it. It's quite a step up from my current 24kWh LEAF Tekna, which ends its PCP in June. I nearly signed up for the new LEAF Tekna there and then after the test drive. I am so glad I didn't after I heard about this issue. Instead I've signed up for a 2 year PCH on a 30kWh (usable 30 kWh, that is) Kia Soul. Come mid 2020 there will be a greater selection of EVs and if Nissan continue to deny this problem then they won't be shortlisted next time by me. I would definitely have been hit by the charging issues on this new LEAF. I regularly (every couple of months or so) do a round trip to from Crawley to Cardiff (about 360 miles return) in a day. I've gotten it down to a fine art with my 24kWh LEAF - two rapids there, one at my destination and two on the way back. In the 40kWh, assuming a realistic 120miles on the motorway, it will be at least three rapids, one on the way there, two on the way back. The most rapids I've done in a day is nine, up to Edinburgh (and then the same back again three days later). That's a trip I was hoping to do again in the new LEAF... Derby is another semi-regular haunt, similar distance to Cardiff. These long trips are a breeze in a 2014 LEAF. Drive for about an hour, rapid charge for half and hour, rinse and repeat. No having to worry about the second rapid taking over an hour and the third taking over two hours (not that you'd stay at a motorway service station for more than two hours as that'll cost you a lot in parking fees).
If you are charging I do not agree that you should have to pay for parking. I mean when you fill up an ice car you do not get charged for parking seems wrong to me. I too was interested in the leaf however I will now wait for a Tesla Model 3 battery management is critical for an EV car.
Adam Purcell It's different battery chemistry. Instead of lifepo4 it's now lithium polymer like Ioniq and Zoe 40 . Nissan should have added liquid / active battery cooling for new 40kwh . Old lifepo4 chemistry can give great performance in passive cooling itself .
After watching this well done rant, I am now considering canceling my order for the new 2018 Leaf, I've noticed this situation with the rapid charging in other videos and I keep telling myself, they should have put in active cooling ...
gp2003gt I'm not in the position of buying a new EV at the moment, but... I know two people who bought Ioniq EV's last year in here Ireland - over the Leaf because at the time it was a new model. They both do a mix of rural and 'high speed' motorway driving every day: the limit is 120kmh on the motorway. 1 year on and both say they love their cars, have had no problems and have been very pleasantly surprised at the range, better than they were expecting. No issues with frequent charging either. Needless to say, neither would now consider a Leaf...which is a shame for Nissan. I think the only complaints were waiting time for the car - now forgotten of course - and poor app support? They both say though that not having had this they don't miss it. I feel that having blazed a bit of a trail for EV's they need to be a bit more careful with their customers. There are many alternatives coming.
Hi Jonathan. I've watched videos from EV enthusiasts like yourself since way before getting my 2015 24kw Nissan Leaf in December 2016. They are very helpful and in November 2017 I used what I knew to drive from South London to Edinburgh, overnight stay, drive back. As you, James and others have stated there was no battery overheat/charge speed issue. I charged up the night before and made 8 in transit rapid charges on the day. On the return I charged at Edinburgh IKEA and 8 in transit charges on the road. The hotter the battery got the better it cooled. Even cooling during charging. And this was well before the "Beast from the East" weather set in. So, my first point is that passive cooling in itself is obviously not an issue (as you know yourself). James (of James and Kate) said that he found the 30kw Leaf had slightly more heat/charge speed issues than the 24kw Leaf. It occurs to me that this may be one key to the 2018 Leaf Issue. The further a Leaf goes between charges the more problem it has with passive cooling. The 30kw only goes about 25% further than a 24kw and suffers minor charge speed loss. The 40kw goes about 67% further than a 24kw and suffers serious charge speed loss. Perhaps Nissan have also programmed in an over cautious charge speed cap on top of that. That is where I agree that active thermal management would be better in 40kw + models. However, the term "real world" is very prevalent in discussions on EVs. So, let's talk real world. If I did my London-Edinburgh trip in the 40kw Leaf in the same manner as in my 24kw Leaf, it would go like this: Charge Leaf to 100% night before trip. In morning drive up to 140 miles before requiring charge. 1st Rapid charge @44kw+ to 75%+ in 45 minutes adding 105+ miles of range. Drive up to 105 miles and do 2nd Rapid charge @44kw+ to 75%+ in 45 minutes adding 105+ miles. Drive up to 105 miles to next Rapid charger. At this point I would have totalled 350 miles with normal charge speeds. That's 12 times the distance the average UK driver covers in a day. 3rd Rapid charge would be @22kw to 38%+ in 45 minutes adding 52 miles. Drive up to 52 miles to next Rapid charger. 4th Rapid charge @22kw to 38%+ in 45 minutes adding 52 miles. Drive 52 miles to next Rapid charger. You are now in Edinburgh having driven 437 miles with 17 miles to spare. Of course, in reality these figures could be better or worse. But, I've based them on the real world distance EV drivers have achieved with a 2018 Leaf in normal use on all speeds of road including motorway. The point is you don't have to stay at a charge point longer unless you insist on having a full battery. I didn't do that even in my 24kw Leaf. I charged as much as I needed to with a safety margin built in. Sometimes that was as much charge as I could get in one session and sometimes it was up to only 60% as required. My conclusion? As we all know, these very long trips are almost always experimental. I am planning to go further north in scotland for an actual trip, but my Edinburgh trip was also an experiment. In the Real World most people are never going to use up the 350 miles they could get if they pre-charge and use two full speed charges thereafter. They still shouldn't have real problems when charging at 22kw. If they insist on a full(ish) battery it will take time. Or they can charge for one session and plan their journey accordingly. This strategy (if logistically possible on your trip) would have saved you a good chunk of that 3 hour defecit. But, I re-iterate, active cooling is preferrable in 40kw and generally longer range EVs. Nissan should have know better, but I don't see this as a deal breaker for 90% of potential purchasers. Those that cancelled their orders have, in my opinion, rather jumped the gun. If you've got this far in my rant, well done. Hope it gave food for thought.
Trevor Berridge yes I agree with everything you say Trevor . It's a great ev and for 99% of drivers it's not an issue. But the heat issue should have been addressed in the 40kwh leaf. They did it in the 24kwh eNV200 !
I should also add that I experience very varied charge rates at rapid chargers anyway. Mostly they are governed by the charger itself. At above 80% charge I have experienced rates from 22kw down to 0.6kw (the fuller, the slower). We all know the last 5% of charge can take as long as the previous 80%. So, charging to absolutley full is never quick with current lithium standards. The extra management from the 2018 Leaf has just compounded the issue, not created it. I suggest only quick charging to 85/90% max and only bother full charging when you have time to leave your car at a 7kw or slower connection for up to a couple of hours with a 70%+ starting level. Works for me. And that last 10-30% charge is usually free.
A very calm and well considered little rant Jonathon. I would have been to livid if I had gone through your experience on the trip. As a long standing EV owner like yourself I pity anyone new to EVs buying the 40 and discovering its not up to doing long journeys. Surely the increased range can only encourage people to use them as their only car for those long trips. Heres hoping Nissan sort it out and quickly for you and everyone else.
The new Leaf is a excellent EV, but I have now decided to postpone my purchase of my new car until next year. This battery issue will surely only get worse when the ambient temperature raises in the summer. Nissan please listen to your existing user's.
Jonathan is the John Major of the motoring video world. Those are exactly the sort of issues that put me off EV ownership. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm due to test drive the Leaf next week.
I appreciate you bringing this issue to light. I was planning to purchase a leaf but after hearing about this issue it is off the table and I am now looking at the Ioniq EV and PHEV.
Active thermal (battery) management seems to be a must for electric cars if they want to be taken seriously. We want bigger batteries with faster charging times and no restrictions. If I were someone who did a lot of long journeys I would definitely wait for the 60kwh LEAF; especially if it has active thermal management.
We had this problem last week in our 2020 Leaf , Winchester to Loch Lomond 397 miles . The return journey was 12 hours painful , it’s off to the dealer tomorrow hope it gets sorted ! 40kw
My Zoe Q90 (41kWh battery) has cooling and heating. Fans kick on a cold charge and raise the battery temp. I drove 420 miles home from London the Friday before your challenge. It Rapid charged at all stops. We stopped 4 times only because I hadn’t used the chargers before so left 40+ miles left in the battery at each stop just in case, also meant we could drive fast. Battery maxed at 30 degrees. Edit: I should add there was 4 of us and the boot was chock full of luggage. Don’t know what difference that’d make.
I have a ZE40 non quick charge, it always charges at 22 kw, what charge speed were you getting? I think Renault have thought much more about battery management and there is a talk on youtube from a battery engineer at Renault and that seems to suggest the battery will last very well too. It may be the Renault Nissan alliance but they don't seem to talk to each other.
Andrew Goodlad thanks, useful information, I find the range of the Zoe means I hardly ever charge away from home, my main fear is that EV sales growth outstrips the charging infrastructure.
Neal Archer I feel it doesn’t get enough praise. It’s a great car that for range keeps up with a Model S 60kWh. I don’t mind that the Model 3 has been delayed as this is a great car to have until then.
This car wasn't designed for extended long trips with back to back 3+ rapid charges. I bought this car knowing this and am very happy with it bang for buck. If you want more complexity and cost then well... its designed to carry me 200+km without a charge covering 99.9% of my driving . If you bought this car for anything else you didn't do your homework and should have put your hand a little deeper in your pocket. Its brilliant for the money. But hey, that's just my opinion.
You show amazing restraint in dealing with the shortcomings of this vehicle. I am amazed that Nissan does not properly handle thermal management. I am a new Chevy bolt owner and very happy with its battery management for both Heating and Cooling using a dedicated liquid system developed by LG chemical. I know the car is not cheap but it is half the price of a Tesla and has very similar range of 238 miles on a 60 kilowatt battery. Sold in Europe as the Ampera E.
Surely for the average private buyer this situation is not a problem. It is rare that I drive more than 200 mile in a day. One rapid charge, perhaps two, being necessary. Agreed though for commercial use the product is probably not viable. It is rare, in my case, that many out and back journeys exceed 100 miles, so the car should be capable of completing the complete trip returning to it’s home charge point. - I have an Acenta model on order as second car. For the way I plan to use it I do not believe that the expense of higher spec & pro pilot is necessary. My main car is a Toyota Prius hybrid plug in, this will be used for long haul journeys, I cannot be bothered with the problems of finding defective charge points, Apps & RFID cards that don’t work. It will be interesting to compare the two vehicles.
John Pollard The reason for the roll out of rapid chargers in the UK and Europe is so EVs CAN do longer trips easily. I will keep referring to the Hyundai Ioniq ev ..no restriction on Rapid charging regardless of speed driven and or outside temperatures.
Thanks to your experiences and valuable information I will cancel my test drive which was scheduled for today and with no possibility of considering this vehicle in the future. Great videos great rant. Thanks again
RAPIDGATE - So it did catch on ? We are not yet E.V. owners having moved to an Ioniq hybrid a year ago but we are now thinking of moving to an E.V. for our next vehicle. Very interested to hear your experience with the 40 Kwh Leaf. We are test driving one next week and we are in no hurry to change we will not be ordering a Leaf until we see an improvement on battery management/extended range.
Wow, in summer in south European countries, the new Leaf won’t be able to make 1 rapid charge neither. If somebody has the car manual, can search the part that tells about the battery?
You are lucky you got to the third rapid before the slowdown. I got throttled at only my second rapid charge. Started at 22kw and a 1.5hr estimate to reach 75%.
Thanks for laying this out in a considered presentation. I just did an 380km trip in my 30 kw Leaf it was running close to the max temperature towards the end after three 25 minute Chademo charges. I think I pushed it a bit hard going to 90% on the first two charges. I didn’t find the charging too inconvenient and will need to do this about 16 times this year. You’re making us feel good about buying a new 30kw Leaf in 2018. Stay Cool.
Leaf 2 is not the great leap forward we all hoped for. I've been saying that all along. Its too much of a compromise offering gadgets and gizmos over real substance in range and battery tech. Leaf 1 owner. 7/10
WoodyJim They were not going to improve Leafs or Leaf sales, in competition with their ICE sales till GM upset the Apple cart. The Ampera-E is an-fab! See Bjorn Nyland’s You Tube videos of same.
Excellent video. I have a 22kWh R240 model Renault Zoe and she has air cooling battery. When charging, if battery modules temperature are higher than 28 degree celcius, kicks in the battery cooling system. Eventually charging finishes more rapidly and it makes battery' s life is longer.
Bryce i did, too, but ended up with the Nissan. The Leaf is fine for my 50 mile one way commute and was $7k less than the bolt. Plus, it rides better and has more comfortable seats. I like it. The 60kWh leaf will have thermal management.
I've had this fairly generic response from Nissan, not hugely reassuring given that I'll be picking mine up next week!! Hi Alex, thanks for being in touch. You can rapid charge as many times as you want, but charging may take extra time if the battery is overheated. Before launch, the 40 kWh Nissan LEAF went through rigorous testing procedures where development vehicles were driven in numerous European countries for more than 100,000 kms. We found LEAF performed well in a range of both rapid and standard charging scenarios and was firmly in line with our expectations. We are aware of a few isolated cases where customers have experienced issues with a public rapid charging unit. We are currently investigating these cases with both the customers and the charging unit providers. We hope that helps answer your concerns. ^Anna
Excellent video really informative. Im glad to see that you are driving these cars long range. I dont do many trips but when I do they are long ones so this helps me a lot thanks.
Just bought the 2018 LEAF, picking it up next week. Our 1st gen LEAF battery had issues, and when we complained, Nissan said there was nothing wrong, but miraculously the battery life line suddenly went to full and we had no problems since. A bit like the time the brake system failed and even the mechanic that came to pick up the car said it was strange, but Nissan itself said the brake system was fine. They changed it completely anyway. Go figure. I’ll be doing some reviews when we get it.
I'm a little confused about how it can take 4-5 hrs to fill a 40kwh battery at a charge rate of 22-24kwh? I appreciate you don't go from 0-100% at the full charge rate but surely it can't take over 4 hours???
Great point! I knew the charging speed will be the issue like in Opel Ampera -e /Chevy Bolt EV is around 45kW. Didn't expect Nissan to shoot them self in the foot by throttle down the charging speed. As bigger the batteries are getting the charging current should increase to avoid ridiculous charging wait times. In the 2018 Leaf manual Nissan basically is telling to avoid driving the car in order to keep the battery in good condition.
Jonathan, thank you so much for the wonderful and useful information. You saved me thousands of Pounds. I had plan to buy a new one, but I will wait until Nissan improve the product or fix the fault.
If Nissan leaf 2018 owners are complaining in the cold winter , they cant rapid charge more than 2 times This summer , allot of New Leaf owners will be storming Nissan dealers for all the wrong reasons
If the problem only starts with the 3rd rapid charge of the day, that means you can drive from London-Edinburgh (402 miles) with 2 rapid charges and no problems. It's only if you want to do some kind of extreme journey of more than 7 hours that you will run into problems. Very few people are likely to make such a journey in their entire lifetime.
true , but we cant escape the fact that a 24kwh leaf will do the trip without restrictions on rapid charging , ie my 33 rapids back to back in sept 2015 in a Leaf . The new 2018 leaf is a great ev , i will keep mine , just i wont do any really long trips in it ! (circa 500 plus miles)
Yes, i understand that there is some kind of limitation and Nissan should clarify the situation. I think for most people it's not really a problen, but owners should know exactly how far they can go in one day with this car.
Great video report. I really hope Nissan start listening and responding. It was cost cutting by Nissan pure and simple for sure. Should be ashamed. So glad I have my 2014 Leaf Tekna. Love it! Over 30K miles now and not missed a beat.
I experienced some similar problems in my 30 kWh Leaf on long summer runs, Cambridge to Glasgow, towards the end was quite painful. I agree that this problem should have been fixed - and the announcement that a 60 kWh Leaf with thermal management is just around the corner has definitely put a damper on the launch of what is still a very fine car. Its such a shame.
Hi Jonathan, not convinced it is the temperature, even your second charge was limited to 25kW while the Hyundai was 10 kW faster, and you were at a low temp. This seems to be a deliberate charging limitation. Today my 30 kWh Leaf was limited to 30 kW at only 60% charge, falling to 24kW at 70% and 14kW at 79%, when I gave up.This is not typical of my previous experienc3, battery temp 12C.??
Good thing my trips are 125miles. I still love the leaf for what I need it for but would have to think twice about trips down to London or even the north of France.
Hi there. What’s the latest on your dealing with Nissan on this matter. Many of us were promised an update from Nissan 4 weeks ago. But there has been silence. Have you had a response.? Or have the public complainers been made offers by Nissan? Thanks
I read a report somewhere giving a theory about this battery charging issue. As Nissan no longer own AESC the battery manufacturer the battery warranty terms and conditions now imposed by AESC are stricter than Nissan previously allowed with their 24kWh and 30kWh packs? Their next 60kWh packs are to be made by LG Chem.
What happened to the older cars you've owned /driven and how was the John o groats lands end challenge car after 2 years usage? Did Nissan build in extra battery protection for rapid charging to ensure warranty issues covered?
Hi Jonathan, Are you saying the new Leaf will currently only take a maximum of two quick charges ever in its life, (maybe to slow the scurge of "dendrites growing on the battery-cell's anode", and hence preserve the battery's life)? or Are there a maximum of two quick charges within any period of continuous driving, (eg before the car has had several hours of rest to allow the battery to cool down) ? I wonder if there is a battery temperature measurement that can be seen somewhere on the Leaf's display? Could it be that the Fast-chargers you used were limiting their output because maybe at that time, there were several other EV cars charging in the same area, (as opposed to the Nissan Leaf telling the fast charger that it only wanted to receive reduced power to charge the batteries)?
Paul Rhodes it will rapid charge fine one after another on a long drive the 3rd will charge at 22kw and it takes longer . When the Battery has cooled after few hours later, it again with charge at 50kw from a rapid
Hi Jonathan. I take one issue with what you've said. Yesterday I did a trip I filmed, involving high-speed work (at posted speed limits, or at least at indicated posted speed limits-another issue). I had a slower charge, appreciably slower, at the second charger, both Ecotricity. The first one, at Exeter after a 103 mile trip, charged at around 43KW and didn't appreciably drop off until 85% charge, but on the second, at Leigh Delamere services M4 after a 95 mile trip, I could only get about 29KW to start, and it rapidly dropped off to 19KW. By the end of the second charge the battery temperature was on the first red line. I used to get these sort of indications on my 30KWh Leaf, but it never prevented me from rapid charging. Like you, I love the new Leaf for a number of reasons, but I agree Nissan need to fix something, and PDQ. The situation may improve as the battery 'beds in', that happened with my first Leaf, but there are a lot of new owners out there who have never operated an EV, and won't have the same tolerance that perhaps more experienced EV drivers will have--and why should they?
I got the exact same problem in the 2019 Nissan Leaf with the 62 Kwh battery. It doesn't seem like Nissan added any thermo-management component to the battery pack.
I drove 100 km at 100 kph. 1:st quick charge started at 43 kW at 10%, from 50% began slowing down to 26 kW at 80%. Drove another 100 km at 110 kph. 2:nd quick charge started at 18 kW and never went above that. Drove about 90 km further, at varying speeds 80-110 kph. 3:rd quick charge started at 15 kW and stayed there. Held on for 25 mins, then had to return car. Completely unacceptable! :-(
Wow! So I was aware that Nissan had not installed thermal management in their system - a bit stupid given some negative publicity they had about this on the previous generation car and the fact that it is not even difficult to install. So now you say there is a limit on the fast-charging, presumably to improve the life of the battery. I imagine a software fix might do the trick but perhaps Nissan will not do that for fear of having some batteries overheat in the wild. A really good cure would be to usher in the new 60Kwhr battery sooner and kill off this 40kwhr. Or recall the cars to retrofit a thermal management system of some kind... Given the number of these cars they are selling, they are going to piss a lot of people off fairly soon. They need to move on it.
Hi Jonathan I've seen and read a lot of rapidgate since these videos were posted last March and I believe you said your specific car was given to Nissan to download the data etc and they were investigating and that they would get back to you. - So, what has happened since? Has Nissan got back to you with a reasoned response? Is there a solution being worked on? etc - If they just say it is working within design parameters they have missed the point. - thanks.
Thanks Jonathan, a very well presented analysis of what seems an embarrassing faux pas by Nissan. I have already ordered the car and your recent experiences, have made me quite nervous about that decision. So nervous that I am considering a review of my order. As I see it, the car is currently not fit for purpose with its severely restricted rapid charging ability. I have contacted Nissan myself to set out my concerns and I await their response. I will make my decision based upon their reply. Thank you once again for bringing this to my attention.
Colin Russell I have the 2018 Leaf, and while I’ve only been on one big trip (270mi each way), I didn’t encounter this issue. We charged at 50kW chargers twice each way and never charged for more than 40 minutes to 80% (we actually got up to 85% once because I wasn’t paying attention). The heat bar was about 1/3 full. In fact, I’ve never seen the heat bar go past the halfway mark. To be fair, the highest ambient temp the car has been in when QCing was 17C, but that’s not exactly cold either... I also don’t quite buy Jonathan’s numbers. How does he get that 24kW charging would take “4-5 hours” to push a 40kWh Leaf to 75%? That makes no sense. Charge accessible to the user is a reported 37.6kWh. The optional 6kW house charger could get you from 0-75% in about 5 hours. A 50kW charger cranked down to 24kW should get you there in 70min. Something is fishy with this video.
Scott Gibson I think this may not be as straight forward as first meets the eye. The time to charge is an possibly an algorithm based upon as I understand it, the battery pack temperature and the packs ability to accept charge without degrading the batteries due to the effect of overheating. For longer journeys at sustained motorways speeds the battery appears to get hotter than you reported. The car senses this and subsequently may limit current when charging even further than the 24kw as it tails off towards the last 20 to 25% SOC. This could be where Jonathan gets his timings to charge from. I am waiting for James and Kate's video to be released. This will hopefully give us more detail and stats surrounding this road trip and the problems they encountered. Good to hear that you had no significant issues on your journey.
Scott Gibson You have a heat bar! My Chevrolet Bolt charges to 90% in 45 minutes and consistently drives 260 miles. Batteries stay cool as a cucumber in high heat or cold( I live on a mountain which can go down to 12 degrees (and has just last month) I have traveled in the high desert 103 Degrees no problemo.
Scott Gibson , as someone who has a Leaf on order my view may be tainted, but I am annoyed I have to say that the results of a "race " between 3 EV's by foolish people is now spoiling to an extent the UK launch of this excellent car. Why on earth would 3 sets of , I'm sure intelligent people, hold this "race "? Trying to force cars to do something they're not suited to do. "Racing " the cars for extended periods "to see what they can do " . To my mind this could be harmful to the car's batteries long term life... This reminds me of the way Top Gear went on TV. It started out as an informational program showing people new developments in motoring, even showing how to do maintenance on cars. This over time changed to a program where presenters were given cars, quite often new, and they then subjected the cars to quite often harsh treatment so the presenters could get their kicks. It always seemed childish to me. Anyway, rant over. Looking forward to July, getting the Leaf.
Hi Jonathan, thanks for this info, looking forward to the video of the trip to see what happened. I guess we have to remember that Nissan's main aim was to get this car out at a budget that would appeal to a mass market. My only supposition is that when they looked at the stats, the number of 500+ mile trips being done in the LEAF 1 didn't justify the higher sticker price that thermal management would have brought to the LEAF 2. I've also heard that Nissan have sold off their battery producing subsidiary to a Chinese company to give them an LG option for the 60kwh version. It's a shame, but my guess is that Nissan knew about the issues with the 40kwh battery, but couldn't react quickly enough to make a substantive difference, and have then been over cautious with the software to limit potential warranty returns. It will be interesting to see how many unhappy LEAF 2 owners there are in the summer!
I haven't seen this issue on mine. Twice this bank holiday weekend I pulled off the motorway to charge my leaf and plugged it in to a chademo charger. Both times It took 45 minutes to go from less than 15% to around 93% when it then notified me that charging was complete. I dont see a problem with this as my leaf seems to go from 100% down to 93% in less than ten miles of round town driving so I hardly think the last 7% on the gauge is worth waiting for. No significant temperature increase was seen on the temp gauge. I drove another 60 miles on the motorway and returned home with 63% remaining. Perhaps yours and others out there have faults wih their batteries!!??
I'm experiencing issues with my 2014 Outlander PHEV as well. I have an app called PHEV Watchdog which connected to the PHEV ECU and reads all information via CAN bus. I can prove there is a problem since the last software update with losing energy while parking. I got around 1-5km less of EV range after parking and have done heaps of documentation and testing in regards to this on my channel. Mitsubishi refuses to acknowledge the data I've provided using this 3rd party app (which reads the same details as the MUT III unit in their workshop btw). Most dealerships don't seem to know anything about the car. They have done the Mitsubishi provided training but there is not real world experience, no experts, no nerds in regards to these vehicles. 14% reduction in battery's State of Health in 5 months is clearly not OK. The SOH was down to 80% before, they did a ECU/BMS reset and it went back to 100% with 60km range for the PHEV.... The lack of software updates and service quality from Mitsubishi and other manufacturers is what is really holding us back from truely adopting EVs. Ans now I'm hearing and seeing this problem with the 40kW Leaf. All these new cars they supposed to get better after the previous version?
Imagine this Nissan leaf on a 44 degree Celsius day in Australia. We sometimes get a few weeks a year of these temperatures over the Christmas/school holiday period when everyone goes on holidays.
Hi that was a blow to learn of the self destruct attitude of the Nissan Management . I have a fabulous 2011 24kwh LEAF a lovely metallic blue one .. I never fast charge because it is used as a shopping trolley for my wife who suffers from emphysema.. Plus there are so few rapid charging outlets in Portugal that the 24kwh Leaf would never reach the next outlet. My LEAF has 29,000 km on its speedo and all 12 battery condition segments showing .. .
I have not experienced the major slowdown on Chademo charging. My 40kWh charges at 46kW until at 73% and stays around 33 kW until 85%. Nissan was not cutting costs. The slow down of the charging is a limit set by the battery manufacturer. I use LeafSpy and know exactly what the temperature of the battery is. The root of the problem is the BMS being badly programmed due to the restrictions set by the battery producer. The charging rate drops down too quickly based upon actual temperature of the battery. Yes my 30kWh Leaf sustains a higher charge rate versus the 40kWh. This can be easily resolved by Nissan. As a 24kWh, 30kWh and 40kWh owner, Nissan must fix this ASAP!
Yes , all evs have regen braking , the motor is turned by the road wheels thus creating electricity which is then sent to the battery ,increasing your range !
Be interesting to see what happens in the summer months with the 'warmer' forced air cooling. All tests i have seen to date have been in the winter months - except recently with FullyCharged driving it well above sea level in Tenerife. it's colder up there.
Thanks Jonathan. A very civilised (and justified) set of comments. I love my (24Kwh) Leaf, as it does exactly what I want (ie a great little runaround), but there seems little point in producing a 40Kwh car if it's going to disappoint people looking to do longer journeys on a regular basis. A bit of an own goal ?
I'm quite pleased that I can't afford to replace my 24kwh Leaf. I plan to drive from Tamworth to Brittany sometime soon and I don't foresee any problems
22 or 24 kw charging power doesn't take 4 to 5 hours for 40 kWh battery. It takes less than 2 hours for 100% charge. But one should also note that charging rate is never linear, even for the 24 kwh Leaf average power is never even close to 50kW. Mostly it's around 30 kW and considerably less in the winter. You can use Leaf-spy or some other custom OBD tool to get the real graphs.
Hi Jonathan (I'll probably never do more than 2 per day RC that is) but I hope with everyone's help force Nissan into a permanent fix. Can I ask a question on how a software rather than a hardware fix will work? Surely if they could have made it work with software wouldn't their engineers tested that method? Cheers
Very informative - thank you, I was considering test-driving a Leaf 2 after seeing the review on Fully Charged by Robert LLewellyn as I plan some long drives / touring in the future. - - will hold fire and look at Zoe 40 or Zoe 60 when it comes out - I do like the look of leaf 2 technology but really don't want to be hanging round charging stations any longer than need be.
Hi John do you think the battery manufacturer has built in a restriction in quick charging the battery as Nissan no longer own the battery factory this would help against warranty claims as the battery will get a easier time
Jonathan Porterfield It's different battery chemistry. Instead of lifepo4 it's now lithium polymer like Ioniq and Zoe 40 . Nissan should have added liquid / active battery cooling for new 40kwh . Old lifepo4 chemistry can give great performance in passive cooling itself .
My experience with my 24 kw LEAF'S has been the battery does overheat when stringing together level 3 charging. On the West Coast Electric Highway between Ashland and Eugene OR, even limiting my charges to 80%, I have my battery temp getting up to red, such that I have had to sub in level 2 charging at one help keep the battery cooler. 2013 American Manufactured Nissan LEAF, 38,000 mi, 11 bars on the battery (down one bar). I am hoping that the next gen LEAF has some serious active battery cooling management both while charging and on the road.
Did you just say lack of rapid charging ability on the new 40kwh nissan lead @ 0.30 secs? I am sure you meant lack of Battery Temp Management system (BMS)?
Hi Jonathan. The higher power density of the new leaf battery combined with Nissan being nervous over battery temperature and degradation has resulted in this rapid charge restriction. Best of luck when the temperature gets up (if it ever does). David
My wife and I have just purchased a 2018 leaf and am very concerned about the heat problem that I’m going to get when we start our long journey summer travels. We too have owned a 2011 and a 2014 leaf and have had no problem since then in our journey up and down the rapid charging infrastructure on the motorway. If what you say is true then Nissan is going to be in a very sticky rapid gate. I am seriously going to be visiting my dealership on Monday with a desperate attempt to get to the bottom of this. If as you say its a software problem then it needs to be fixed and soon or a lot of orders are going to be cancelled. Most of my charging is from my house in the winter because we stay local.
The trouble is that Nissan will not be doing anything about this rapid charge problem. There answer is this. “We at NIssan didn’t make this car for long journey traveling. We just made it for local city driving. It was never our intention to build this car for long distance work. If you wish to do longer journeys then we suggest you buy a car suited for that mileage. I.E. a tesla, or one of our second hand leafs. Unlike you, we are banking on the 60 kWh leaf due out next year. HA, HA.”
Mr. Nissan called me and said they were attempting to beat their old record for fastest electric vehicle depreciation. He assured me a used 2018 Leaf will have a resale value under 5K within three years. Beating their previous record by a few months. So there you have it.
We drove from Haugesund, (West coast Norway) to Plymouth and return last August/September (4500 kilometres) in out Hyundai Ioniq without a single hitch 😄
Hi Jonathan Off the strength of your review with James last week, and having driven the New Leaf on a 100 mile round trip, I’m close to dropping a deposit on one, as a matter of interest on your group challenge drive (Race: ), what sort of speed did you average on motorways? Thank You
Jonathan Porterfield interesting, I thought you may have tried to keep up with the ioniq, and the higher speeds had caused the Leaf it’s problems, Thank you for the reply
Hi Jonathan; how far would the TWO rapids take you in winter? I have one on order, and don't know if I should cancel! Tnx for all your efforts, great stuff.
I suppose you would start out from home with 150 miles, so the first stop would be at 130 miles and the second at 250, which would get you 370 miles. That's almost London-Edinburgh and 7 hours driving, which most people would choose to fly. A good strategy might be to use the lunch stop to charge at a fast charger.
Kevin Hayes: Consumer law changed about a year ago in favour of the buyer. If your new Leaf proves unfit for purpose because of limitations to the number of rapid charges in a single journey, you have the right to reject the vehicle and your dealer is obliged by law to refund the purchase price in full if you reject within 30 days. He cannot insist on a repair ir a replacement without your agreement, so stick to your guns. You can also reject up to 6 months if you believe the fault existed when you bought the car but the refund is then negotiable to take account of the fact that you’ve had the use if the vehicle for that time. The dealer does not have to prove the fault did NOT exist but has to accept your word if your argument is reasonable and you believe it did. Solution: Within the 30 day period, make a journey long enough to require 3 or more rapid recharges. Write down or better, photograph, readings on the charger and the car’s display and present to the dealer. Even better, present the dealer at or prior to delivery with a letter which outlines what you’ve heard of the problem and states that if this born out when you take delivery, you reserve the right to reject the vehicle for a full refund. State that if the dealer won’t accept this, you will refer the matter to Trading Standards who will enforce the new law, and/or if you’re a subscriber to the Consumers Association’s (Which? Magazine) legal service, you will request them to fight your case. This will involve negative publicity (in Which?) for the dealer and Nissan, which they won’t want. Then carry out the repeat rapid recharge test within 30 days as I’ve outlined above. BTW, my son has just successfully rejected a used ICE vehicle after 5 months of interrupted use and obtained a good refund without any quibble because he quoted the act name and its details in writing which the dealer was obliged to acknowledge or break the law.
Kevin Hayes I’ve not had any trouble with mine... I’ve only been on a trip where I QCed twice each way, but the heat bar was at about 1/3, and I’ve never seen it go above 1/2, even when QCing at 50kW. I don’t believe this guy. He won’t let an engineer look at the car because “they know there’s something going on,” and he says 22kW charging would take 4-5 hours to get to 75% he’s full of BS.
Scott Gibson: If you search TH-cam and forums such as SpeakEV you’ll find Johnathon is far from the only person who has experienced the problem of restricted charge currents when charging more than twice in a single journey. In his latest video a day or so ago TH-camr Lemon-Tea Leaf shows figures for charge current vs battery temperature which demonstrate the problem very well; its clear that the current is being limited to protect the battery from overheating and the problem will surely increase as summer temperatures are reached.
Kevin Hayes I’ve been pretty consistently getting 100 miles while staying between 20 and 80 percent SOC. I’ve yet to reset my average mileage and it currently sits at 5.1mi/kWh. I’ve been really impressed so far.
To complicated and costly , the eNV200 has basic cooling to the battery , linked into the A/C of the van. This on the leaf would be very complicated with the leafs battery pack.
@@JonathanPorterfield OK, I accept what you say but I live in hope of some entrepreneurial person pursuing this and marketing a product or fitting service to solve this problem for Nissan. :-)
Excellent video. Calm, reasoned and intelligent. I think you have done a service to prospective purchasers of the new Leaf.
All I can say is 'Shame' on Nissan and what a shame; forgot the basics and rushed in with the Tech'.
Thanks for posting this.
"Excellent video. Calm, reasoned and intelligent." Who cares? As long as the argument is good and it is spot-on, it is valuable information. No need for buzzwords. Stop being a leghumper.
Rapid chargers already support CCS. This directive won't change anything because it just means that new rapid chargers must include CCS which is what they do already. Chademo won't be going away any time soon especially given it is still the most used rapid-charge system in the UK used by the most popular EV, the Leaf and Hybrid, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Non-story.
Alan Sneddon by Nov 2018 all existing points must support CCS. That will mean parity. Then new points with 100kW or 150 or 350kW may or may not support the possibility of charging a Leaf at 46kW or a PHEV grabbing 22 miles.
As I've mentioned before, CCS may very well become 'the future' standard - and the EU directive will certainly assist. However it is most certainly not an issue anyone need be concerned about, especially when considering purchasing a Leaf or any other vehicle that uses Chademo DC rapid charging. Nor would I compare Chademo to Betamax (which was a far superior system compared with VHS). Personally, I think the Hyundai Ioniq, even with less battery capacity (but supports CCS/has TMS and has very efficient energy consumption) is a very viable alternative to the new Leaf.
Alan Sneddon cheers Alan. Yes Ionic seems really good and it's LiPo batteries seem highly efficient and also less affected by cold weather. They also charge really fast. Yeah Betamax was deliberate as Chad has V2G so superior in that regard. I agree that I wouldn't be too concerned if I already owned a Leaf, or was about to lease one. The only concern for me would be if I was buying one now, in 3 years time I'd expect things to have moved on considerably so I'd be worried about resale value when the country has shifted to CCS. #rapidgate gets press but the other concern with a leaf is the need to keep the key in an RF pouch to stop relay attacks. Gangs are now using cheap radio equipment to boost signals, but this also applies to Range rovers, Mercs and other cars which unlock automatically by sensing the key (rather than pressing a button on the key).
I currently own a 2019 Nissan Leaf with 8500kms. It has been at the dealer for 10 weeks. They just can't seem to find what the issue is. I was driving and the following message popped up in the console (driver side). ''Maintenance on the EV vehicle. The car will not start once turned off''. Have ever heard of this message? They called me last and told me it was finally repaired. I took it out of the dealer's driway only to get the same message again after only 10 minutes!! Thanks, Pat
My friend, answer for you out of this problem is "lemon law payback".
This video takes the issue straight to the point, without "fire and fury". Great work, please keep it up!
Excellent rant Jonathan. Totally agree with everything you said here. Nissan have “dropped a bollock” as they say.
The car still meets all the needs of my day to day driving. 300 miles is the most I ever drive in one day. But still the thermal battery management should be fitted to all EV’s as standard in my eyes.
As should the fast-charge capability. I could never understand their not having it on my SV or any of the series.
246spyder ...as well as heat pump, most essential for cold days journeys....
Bear in mind that these battery heat issues are cropping up in ambient temperatures around freezing right now. What will this be like in the height of summer when people will be more likely to want to do long day trips and holidays?
As I mentioned on the SpeakEV forum a couple of weeks ago, I was all but ready to sign up for a 2018 Nissan LEAF, then I heard the first reports of this rapid charge blunder.
I was torn. I had already had a test drive of the new LEAF and loved it. It's quite a step up from my current 24kWh LEAF Tekna, which ends its PCP in June. I nearly signed up for the new LEAF Tekna there and then after the test drive. I am so glad I didn't after I heard about this issue. Instead I've signed up for a 2 year PCH on a 30kWh (usable 30 kWh, that is) Kia Soul. Come mid 2020 there will be a greater selection of EVs and if Nissan continue to deny this problem then they won't be shortlisted next time by me.
I would definitely have been hit by the charging issues on this new LEAF. I regularly (every couple of months or so) do a round trip to from Crawley to Cardiff (about 360 miles return) in a day. I've gotten it down to a fine art with my 24kWh LEAF - two rapids there, one at my destination and two on the way back. In the 40kWh, assuming a realistic 120miles on the motorway, it will be at least three rapids, one on the way there, two on the way back. The most rapids I've done in a day is nine, up to Edinburgh (and then the same back again three days later). That's a trip I was hoping to do again in the new LEAF... Derby is another semi-regular haunt, similar distance to Cardiff. These long trips are a breeze in a 2014 LEAF. Drive for about an hour, rapid charge for half and hour, rinse and repeat. No having to worry about the second rapid taking over an hour and the third taking over two hours (not that you'd stay at a motorway service station for more than two hours as that'll cost you a lot in parking fees).
If you are charging I do not agree that you should have to pay for parking. I mean when you fill up an ice car you do not get charged for parking seems wrong to me. I too was interested in the leaf however I will now wait for a Tesla Model 3 battery management is critical for an EV car.
Adam Purcell It's different battery chemistry. Instead of lifepo4 it's now lithium polymer like Ioniq and Zoe 40 . Nissan should have added liquid / active battery cooling for new 40kwh .
Old lifepo4 chemistry can give great performance in passive cooling itself .
this car is for city driving a to b not long journey
After watching this well done rant, I am now considering canceling my order for the new 2018 Leaf, I've noticed this situation with the rapid charging in other videos and I keep telling myself, they should have put in active cooling ...
gp2003gt I'm not in the position of buying a new EV at the moment, but...
I know two people who bought Ioniq EV's last year in here Ireland - over the Leaf because at the time it was a new model.
They both do a mix of rural and 'high speed' motorway driving every day: the limit is 120kmh on the motorway.
1 year on and both say they love their cars, have had no problems and have been very pleasantly surprised at the range, better than they were expecting.
No issues with frequent charging either.
Needless to say, neither would now consider a Leaf...which is a shame for Nissan.
I think the only complaints were waiting time for the car - now forgotten of course - and poor app support? They both say though that not having had this they don't miss it.
I feel that having blazed a bit of a trail for EV's they need to be a bit more careful with their customers. There are many alternatives coming.
wait for the 2019 VW ID
gp2003gt All so like the Bolt, programmable driving and charging protocols.
@@GeoStreber vw evs are junk. They have no cooling in the packs too.
Hi Jonathan. I've watched videos from EV enthusiasts like yourself since way before getting my 2015 24kw Nissan Leaf in December 2016. They are very helpful and in November 2017 I used what I knew to drive from South London to Edinburgh, overnight stay, drive back. As you, James and others have stated there was no battery overheat/charge speed issue. I charged up the night before and made 8 in transit rapid charges on the day. On the return I charged at Edinburgh IKEA and 8 in transit charges on the road. The hotter the battery got the better it cooled. Even cooling during charging. And this was well before the "Beast from the East" weather set in. So, my first point is that passive cooling in itself is obviously not an issue (as you know yourself). James (of James and Kate) said that he found the 30kw Leaf had slightly more heat/charge speed issues than the 24kw Leaf. It occurs to me that this may be one key to the 2018 Leaf Issue. The further a Leaf goes between charges the more problem it has with passive cooling. The 30kw only goes about 25% further than a 24kw and suffers minor charge speed loss. The 40kw goes about 67% further than a 24kw and suffers serious charge speed loss. Perhaps Nissan have also programmed in an over cautious charge speed cap on top of that. That is where I agree that active thermal management would be better in 40kw + models. However, the term "real world" is very prevalent in discussions on EVs. So, let's talk real world. If I did my London-Edinburgh trip in the 40kw Leaf in the same manner as in my 24kw Leaf, it would go like this: Charge Leaf to 100% night before trip. In morning drive up to 140 miles before requiring charge. 1st Rapid charge @44kw+ to 75%+ in 45 minutes adding 105+ miles of range. Drive up to 105 miles and do 2nd Rapid charge @44kw+ to 75%+ in 45 minutes adding 105+ miles. Drive up to 105 miles to next Rapid charger. At this point I would have totalled 350 miles with normal charge speeds. That's 12 times the distance the average UK driver covers in a day. 3rd Rapid charge would be @22kw to 38%+ in 45 minutes adding 52 miles. Drive up to 52 miles to next Rapid charger. 4th Rapid charge @22kw to 38%+ in 45 minutes adding 52 miles. Drive 52 miles to next Rapid charger. You are now in Edinburgh having driven 437 miles with 17 miles to spare. Of course, in reality these figures could be better or worse. But, I've based them on the real world distance EV drivers have achieved with a 2018 Leaf in normal use on all speeds of road including motorway. The point is you don't have to stay at a charge point longer unless you insist on having a full battery. I didn't do that even in my 24kw Leaf. I charged as much as I needed to with a safety margin built in. Sometimes that was as much charge as I could get in one session and sometimes it was up to only 60% as required. My conclusion? As we all know, these very long trips are almost always experimental. I am planning to go further north in scotland for an actual trip, but my Edinburgh trip was also an experiment. In the Real World most people are never going to use up the 350 miles they could get if they pre-charge and use two full speed charges thereafter. They still shouldn't have real problems when charging at 22kw. If they insist on a full(ish) battery it will take time. Or they can charge for one session and plan their journey accordingly. This strategy (if logistically possible on your trip) would have saved you a good chunk of that 3 hour defecit. But, I re-iterate, active cooling is preferrable in 40kw and generally longer range EVs. Nissan should have know better, but I don't see this as a deal breaker for 90% of potential purchasers. Those that cancelled their orders have, in my opinion, rather jumped the gun. If you've got this far in my rant, well done. Hope it gave food for thought.
Trevor Berridge yes I agree with everything you say Trevor . It's a great ev and for 99% of drivers it's not an issue. But the heat issue should have been addressed in the 40kwh leaf. They did it in the 24kwh eNV200 !
I should also add that I experience very varied charge rates at rapid chargers anyway. Mostly they are governed by the charger itself. At above 80% charge I have experienced rates from 22kw down to 0.6kw (the fuller, the slower). We all know the last 5% of charge can take as long as the previous 80%. So, charging to absolutley full is never quick with current lithium standards. The extra management from the 2018 Leaf has just compounded the issue, not created it. I suggest only quick charging to 85/90% max and only bother full charging when you have time to leave your car at a 7kw or slower connection for up to a couple of hours with a 70%+ starting level. Works for me. And that last 10-30% charge is usually free.
A very calm and well considered little rant Jonathon. I would have been to livid if I had gone through your experience on the trip. As a long standing EV owner like yourself I pity anyone new to EVs buying the 40 and discovering its not up to doing long journeys. Surely the increased range can only encourage people to use them as their only car for those long trips. Heres hoping Nissan sort it out and quickly for you and everyone else.
Excellent points, well made. It will be interesting to see the response from Nissan.
Tim Shearer thanks Tim ..love your channel too !
please keep us updated on Nissan's response!
Thanks for this. I'm a few months away from ordering and was all set for a 40 Leaf. I'll be watching closely and considering other options now.
And the choise is ?
The new Leaf is a excellent EV, but I have now decided to postpone my purchase of my new car until next year. This battery issue will surely only get worse when the ambient temperature raises in the summer. Nissan please listen to your existing user's.
Jonathan is the John Major of the motoring video world. Those are exactly the sort of issues that put me off EV ownership. Thanks for pointing this out. I'm due to test drive the Leaf next week.
Ohhh no ..please don't say I sound like John Major !
I appreciate you bringing this issue to light. I was planning to purchase a leaf but after hearing about this issue it is off the table and I am now looking at the Ioniq EV and PHEV.
Active thermal (battery) management seems to be a must for electric cars if they want to be taken seriously. We want bigger batteries with faster charging times and no restrictions. If I were someone who did a lot of long journeys I would definitely wait for the 60kwh LEAF; especially if it has active thermal management.
We had this problem last week in our 2020 Leaf , Winchester to Loch Lomond 397 miles . The return journey was 12 hours painful , it’s off to the dealer tomorrow hope it gets sorted ! 40kw
My Zoe Q90 (41kWh battery) has cooling and heating. Fans kick on a cold charge and raise the battery temp.
I drove 420 miles home from London the Friday before your challenge. It Rapid charged at all stops. We stopped 4 times only because I hadn’t used the chargers before so left 40+ miles left in the battery at each stop just in case, also meant we could drive fast. Battery maxed at 30 degrees.
Edit: I should add there was 4 of us and the boot was chock full of luggage. Don’t know what difference that’d make.
I have a ZE40 non quick charge, it always charges at 22 kw, what charge speed were you getting? I think Renault have thought much more about battery management and there is a talk on youtube from a battery engineer at Renault and that seems to suggest the battery will last very well too. It may be the Renault Nissan alliance but they don't seem to talk to each other.
Robert Smith so I do get 40kWh but from about 40% it’s probably in the 30kWh zone. Didn’t track it
Andrew Goodlad thanks, useful information, I find the range of the Zoe means I hardly ever charge away from home, my main fear is that EV sales growth outstrips the charging infrastructure.
Robert Smith hopefully they keep pace.
Neal Archer I feel it doesn’t get enough praise. It’s a great car that for range keeps up with a Model S 60kWh. I don’t mind that the Model 3 has been delayed as this is a great car to have until then.
great considered feedback Jonathan lets hope Nissan listen to it and take some action.
This car wasn't designed for extended long trips with back to back 3+ rapid charges. I bought this car knowing this and am very happy with it bang for buck. If you want more complexity and cost then well... its designed to carry me 200+km without a charge covering 99.9% of my driving . If you bought this car for anything else you didn't do your homework and should have put your hand a little deeper in your pocket. Its brilliant for the money. But hey, that's just my opinion.
Thanks for the video, I`ll keep looking Nissan.
You show amazing restraint in dealing with the shortcomings of this vehicle. I am amazed that Nissan does not properly handle thermal management. I am a new Chevy bolt owner and very happy with its battery management for both Heating and Cooling using a dedicated liquid system developed by LG chemical. I know the car is not cheap but it is half the price of a Tesla and has very similar range of 238 miles on a 60 kilowatt battery. Sold in Europe as the Ampera E.
DerekNicol sorry, I read a little about complexities after that sale but was not up on the full story.
Surely for the average private buyer this situation is not a problem. It is rare that I drive more than 200 mile in a day.
One rapid charge, perhaps two, being necessary. Agreed though for commercial use the product is probably not viable.
It is rare, in my case, that many out and back journeys exceed 100 miles, so the car should be capable of completing the complete trip returning to it’s home charge point. - I have an Acenta model on order as second car. For the way I plan to use it I do not believe that the expense of higher spec & pro pilot is necessary. My main car is a Toyota Prius hybrid plug in, this will be used for long haul journeys, I cannot be bothered with the problems of finding defective charge points, Apps & RFID cards that don’t work.
It will be interesting to compare the two vehicles.
John Pollard The reason for the roll out of rapid chargers in the UK and Europe is so EVs CAN do longer trips easily.
I will keep referring to the Hyundai Ioniq ev ..no restriction on Rapid charging regardless of speed driven and or outside temperatures.
60 miles a day is my commute. I dont need no more then two charges and if need to go on a longer range I'll take my 16 Ford explorer.
This won't affect me directly, but it can affect resale market value if it's a model with a known flaw.
Jonathan Porterfield As well as the Ampera-E.
Thanks to your experiences and valuable information I will cancel my test drive which was scheduled for today and with no possibility of considering this vehicle in the future. Great videos great rant. Thanks again
RAPIDGATE - So it did catch on ? We are not yet E.V. owners having moved to an Ioniq hybrid a year ago but we are now thinking of moving to an E.V. for our next vehicle. Very interested to hear your experience with the 40 Kwh Leaf. We are test driving one next week and we are in no hurry to change we will not be ordering a Leaf until we see an improvement on battery management/extended range.
Wow, in summer in south European countries, the new Leaf won’t be able to make 1 rapid charge neither. If somebody has the car manual, can search the part that tells about the battery?
I have a new Leaf 2.zero - had it a week. don't really use the rapid system so not really affected, BUT I would like Nissan to fix the issue...
So looking forward to mine , I recon they will sort it ...fingers crossed.
You are lucky you got to the third rapid before the slowdown.
I got throttled at only my second rapid charge. Started at 22kw and a 1.5hr estimate to reach 75%.
Thanks for laying this out in a considered presentation. I just did an 380km trip in my 30 kw Leaf it was running close to the max temperature towards the end after three 25 minute Chademo charges. I think I pushed it a bit hard going to 90% on the first two charges. I didn’t find the charging too inconvenient and will need to do this about 16 times this year. You’re making us feel good about buying a new 30kw Leaf in 2018. Stay Cool.
flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-leafs-soh-loss/#comment-240
Leaf 2 is not the great leap forward we all hoped for. I've been saying that all along. Its too much of a compromise offering gadgets and gizmos over real substance in range and battery tech.
Leaf 1 owner. 7/10
WoodyJim They were not going to improve Leafs or Leaf sales, in competition with their ICE sales till GM upset the Apple cart. The Ampera-E is an-fab! See Bjorn Nyland’s You Tube videos of same.
Excellent video. I have a 22kWh R240 model Renault Zoe and she has air cooling battery. When charging, if battery modules temperature are higher than 28 degree celcius, kicks in the battery cooling system. Eventually charging finishes more rapidly and it makes battery' s life is longer.
Can you confirm the figures. You said that a 22Kwh charge would take 4 to 5 hours, but with a 40Kwh battery that should only take 2 hours at most.
Simon Carr Yeah, there’s something fishy with this.
Simon Carr see the race here th-cam.com/video/QKlLuPLgKn0/w-d-xo.html
John Weatherley This is definitely fishy.
I test drove the Chevy Bolt and loved it. And it has a active thermal management system that it has is awesome
Bryce i did, too, but ended up with the Nissan.
The Leaf is fine for my 50 mile one way commute and was $7k less than the bolt.
Plus, it rides better and has more comfortable seats.
I like it. The 60kWh leaf will have thermal management.
I've had this fairly generic response from Nissan, not hugely reassuring given that I'll be picking mine up next week!!
Hi Alex, thanks for being in touch. You can rapid charge as many times as you want, but charging may take extra time if the battery is overheated.
Before launch, the 40 kWh Nissan LEAF went through rigorous testing procedures where development vehicles were driven in numerous European countries for more than 100,000 kms. We found LEAF performed well in a range of both rapid and standard charging scenarios and was firmly in line with our expectations. We are aware of a few isolated cases where customers have experienced issues with a public rapid charging unit. We are currently investigating these cases with both the customers and the charging unit providers. We hope that helps answer your concerns. ^Anna
Excellent video really informative. Im glad to see that you are driving these cars long range. I dont do many trips but when I do they are long ones so this helps me a lot thanks.
Just bought the 2018 LEAF, picking it up next week. Our 1st gen LEAF battery had issues, and when we complained, Nissan said there was nothing wrong, but miraculously the battery life line suddenly went to full and we had no problems since. A bit like the time the brake system failed and even the mechanic that came to pick up the car said it was strange, but Nissan itself said the brake system was fine. They changed it completely anyway. Go figure. I’ll be doing some reviews when we get it.
I'm a little confused about how it can take 4-5 hrs to fill a 40kwh battery at a charge rate of 22-24kwh? I appreciate you don't go from 0-100% at the full charge rate but surely it can't take over 4 hours???
Finally the honest review we need. Great investment the new leaf 😱 fit for purpose #TakeThemBack
Great point! I knew the charging speed will be the issue like in Opel Ampera -e /Chevy Bolt EV is around 45kW. Didn't expect Nissan to shoot them self in the foot by throttle down the charging speed. As bigger the batteries are getting the charging current should increase to avoid ridiculous charging wait times. In the 2018 Leaf manual Nissan basically is telling to avoid driving the car in order to keep the battery in good condition.
Jonathan, thank you so much for the wonderful and useful information. You saved me thousands of Pounds.
I had plan to buy a new one, but I will wait until Nissan improve the product or fix the fault.
Thanks for the video :) I have preordered a leaf 2.0 but if this is the case, I will reconsider my purchase.
I cancelled my order this week, ordered a Honda Clarity PHEV instead.
The reduced 3rd quick charge "feature 😜", was it documented anywhere that the public could find it - like the owners manual ?
If Nissan leaf 2018 owners are complaining in the cold winter , they cant rapid charge more than 2 times
This summer , allot of New Leaf owners will be storming Nissan dealers for all the wrong reasons
If the problem only starts with the 3rd rapid charge of the day, that means you can drive from London-Edinburgh (402 miles) with 2 rapid charges and no problems. It's only if you want to do some kind of extreme journey of more than 7 hours that you will run into problems. Very few people are likely to make such a journey in their entire lifetime.
true , but we cant escape the fact that a 24kwh leaf will do the trip without restrictions on rapid charging , ie my 33 rapids back to back in sept 2015 in a Leaf .
The new 2018 leaf is a great ev , i will keep mine , just i wont do any really long trips in it ! (circa 500 plus miles)
Yes, i understand that there is some kind of limitation and Nissan should clarify the situation. I think for most people it's not really a problen, but owners should know exactly how far they can go in one day with this car.
Great video report. I really hope Nissan start listening and responding. It was cost cutting by Nissan pure and simple for sure. Should be ashamed. So glad I have my 2014 Leaf Tekna. Love it! Over 30K miles now and not missed a beat.
I experienced some similar problems in my 30 kWh Leaf on long summer runs, Cambridge to Glasgow, towards the end was quite painful. I agree that this problem should have been fixed - and the announcement that a 60 kWh Leaf with thermal management is just around the corner has definitely put a damper on the launch of what is still a very fine car. Its such a shame.
Rob Kay 60KW because Nissan lost sales to GM for the Ampera E, which has a 60Kwhr battery standard.
Hi Jonathan, not convinced it is the temperature, even your second charge was limited to 25kW while the Hyundai was 10 kW faster, and you were at a low temp. This seems to be a deliberate charging limitation. Today my 30 kWh Leaf was limited to 30 kW at only 60% charge, falling to 24kW at 70% and 14kW at 79%, when I gave up.This is not typical of my previous experienc3, battery temp 12C.??
Good thing my trips are 125miles. I still love the leaf for what I need it for but would have to think twice about trips down to London or even the north of France.
Hi there. What’s the latest on your dealing with Nissan on this matter. Many of us were promised an update from Nissan 4 weeks ago. But there has been silence. Have you had a response.? Or have the public complainers been made offers by Nissan? Thanks
Great information.
What’s your view on the new Kona EV coming out ?
I read a report somewhere giving a theory about this battery charging issue. As Nissan no longer own AESC the battery manufacturer the battery warranty terms and conditions now imposed by AESC are stricter than Nissan previously allowed with their 24kWh and 30kWh packs? Their next 60kWh packs are to be made by LG Chem.
What happened to the older cars you've owned /driven and how was the John o groats lands end challenge car after 2 years usage? Did Nissan build in extra battery protection for rapid charging to ensure warranty issues covered?
Hi Jonathan, Are you saying the new Leaf will currently only take a maximum of two quick charges ever in its life, (maybe to slow the scurge of "dendrites growing on the battery-cell's anode", and hence preserve the battery's life)?
or
Are there a maximum of two quick charges within any period of continuous driving, (eg before the car has had several hours of rest to allow the battery to cool down) ?
I wonder if there is a battery temperature measurement that can be seen somewhere on the Leaf's display?
Could it be that the Fast-chargers you used were limiting their output because maybe at that time, there were several other EV cars charging in the same area, (as opposed to the Nissan Leaf telling the fast charger that it only wanted to receive reduced power to charge the batteries)?
Paul Rhodes it will rapid charge fine one after another on a long drive the 3rd will charge at 22kw and it takes longer . When the Battery has cooled after few hours later, it again with charge at 50kw from a rapid
th-cam.com/video/QKlLuPLgKn0/w-d-xo.html
Hi Jonathan. I take one issue with what you've said. Yesterday I did a trip I filmed, involving high-speed work (at posted speed limits, or at least at indicated posted speed limits-another issue). I had a slower charge, appreciably slower, at the second charger, both Ecotricity. The first one, at Exeter after a 103 mile trip, charged at around 43KW and didn't appreciably drop off until 85% charge, but on the second, at Leigh Delamere services M4 after a 95 mile trip, I could only get about 29KW to start, and it rapidly dropped off to 19KW. By the end of the second charge the battery temperature was on the first red line. I used to get these sort of indications on my 30KWh Leaf, but it never prevented me from rapid charging. Like you, I love the new Leaf for a number of reasons, but I agree Nissan need to fix something, and PDQ. The situation may improve as the battery 'beds in', that happened with my first Leaf, but there are a lot of new owners out there who have never operated an EV, and won't have the same tolerance that perhaps more experienced EV drivers will have--and why should they?
Peter N Bernfeld a
For your video I am not going to buy the new Nissan Leaf and this was programmed for Monday 7/5/ 2018 !!! Thank you very much!
I got the exact same problem in the 2019 Nissan Leaf with the 62 Kwh battery. It doesn't seem like Nissan added any thermo-management component to the battery pack.
No they haven't , as were not supposed to drive more than 400 miles in 1 day according to Nissan !
I drove 100 km at 100 kph. 1:st quick charge started at 43 kW at 10%, from 50% began slowing down to 26 kW at 80%. Drove another 100 km at 110 kph. 2:nd quick charge started at 18 kW and never went above that. Drove about 90 km further, at varying speeds 80-110 kph. 3:rd quick charge started at 15 kW and stayed there. Held on for 25 mins, then had to return car. Completely unacceptable! :-(
I think that the lack of battery cooling will be a problem in an Australian summers, with weeks of 35c or more
I'm considering buying a Nissan Leaf at the moment - does it still have the same charging problems?
Wow! So I was aware that Nissan had not installed thermal management in their system - a bit stupid given some negative publicity they had about this on the previous generation car and the fact that it is not even difficult to install. So now you say there is a limit on the fast-charging, presumably to improve the life of the battery. I imagine a software fix might do the trick but perhaps Nissan will not do that for fear of having some batteries overheat in the wild. A really good cure would be to usher in the new 60Kwhr battery sooner and kill off this 40kwhr. Or recall the cars to retrofit a thermal management system of some kind... Given the number of these cars they are selling, they are going to piss a lot of people off fairly soon. They need to move on it.
Hi Jonathan
I've seen and read a lot of rapidgate since these videos were posted last March and I believe you said your specific car was given to Nissan to download the data etc and they were investigating and that they would get back to you.
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So, what has happened since? Has Nissan got back to you with a reasoned response? Is there a solution being worked on? etc
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If they just say it is working within design parameters they have missed the point.
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thanks.
Good Job John....thx for sharing your thoughts!.....Keep us posted.....(following)
Cheers , im going to post a 10,000 mile video in around 800 miles time !
Thanks Jonathan, a very well presented analysis of what seems an embarrassing faux pas by Nissan. I have already ordered the car and your recent experiences, have made me quite nervous about that decision. So nervous that I am considering a review of my order. As I see it, the car is currently not fit for purpose with its severely restricted rapid charging ability. I have contacted Nissan myself to set out my concerns and I await their response. I will make my decision based upon their reply. Thank you once again for bringing this to my attention.
Colin Russell I have the 2018 Leaf, and while I’ve only been on one big trip (270mi each way), I didn’t encounter this issue. We charged at 50kW chargers twice each way and never charged for more than 40 minutes to 80% (we actually got up to 85% once because I wasn’t paying attention). The heat bar was about 1/3 full. In fact, I’ve never seen the heat bar go past the halfway mark. To be fair, the highest ambient temp the car has been in when QCing was 17C, but that’s not exactly cold either...
I also don’t quite buy Jonathan’s numbers. How does he get that 24kW charging would take “4-5 hours” to push a 40kWh Leaf to 75%? That makes no sense. Charge accessible to the user is a reported 37.6kWh. The optional 6kW house charger could get you from 0-75% in about 5 hours. A 50kW charger cranked down to 24kW should get you there in 70min. Something is fishy with this video.
Scott Gibson I think this may not be as straight forward as first meets the eye. The time to charge is an possibly an algorithm based upon as I understand it, the battery pack temperature and the packs ability to accept charge without degrading the batteries due to the effect of overheating. For longer journeys at sustained motorways speeds the battery appears to get hotter than you reported. The car senses this and subsequently may limit current when charging even further than the 24kw as it tails off towards the last 20 to 25% SOC. This could be where Jonathan gets his timings to charge from. I am waiting for James and Kate's video to be released. This will hopefully give us more detail and stats surrounding this road trip and the problems they encountered. Good to hear that you had no significant issues on your journey.
Keep us updated as to what heir reply?
Scott Gibson You have a heat bar! My Chevrolet Bolt charges to 90% in 45 minutes and consistently drives 260 miles. Batteries stay cool as a cucumber in high heat or cold( I live on a mountain which can go down to 12 degrees (and has just last month) I have traveled in the high desert 103 Degrees no problemo.
Scott Gibson , as someone who has a Leaf on order my view may be tainted, but I am annoyed I have to say that the results of a "race " between 3 EV's by foolish people is now spoiling to an extent the UK launch of this excellent car. Why on earth would 3 sets of , I'm sure intelligent people, hold this "race "? Trying to force cars to do something they're not suited to do. "Racing " the cars for extended periods "to see what they can do " . To my mind this could be harmful to the car's batteries long term life... This reminds me of the way Top Gear went on TV. It started out as an informational program showing people new developments in motoring, even showing how to do maintenance on cars. This over time changed to a program where presenters were given cars, quite often new, and they then subjected the cars to quite often harsh treatment so the presenters could get their kicks. It always seemed childish to me. Anyway, rant over. Looking forward to July, getting the Leaf.
Hi Jonathan, thanks for this info, looking forward to the video of the trip to see what happened. I guess we have to remember that Nissan's main aim was to get this car out at a budget that would appeal to a mass market. My only supposition is that when they looked at the stats, the number of 500+ mile trips being done in the LEAF 1 didn't justify the higher sticker price that thermal management would have brought to the LEAF 2. I've also heard that Nissan have sold off their battery producing subsidiary to a Chinese company to give them an LG option for the 60kwh version. It's a shame, but my guess is that Nissan knew about the issues with the 40kwh battery, but couldn't react quickly enough to make a substantive difference, and have then been over cautious with the software to limit potential warranty returns. It will be interesting to see how many unhappy LEAF 2 owners there are in the summer!
John Hociej see the race here th-cam.com/video/QKlLuPLgKn0/w-d-xo.html
Is there any update on this?
I haven't seen this issue on mine. Twice this bank holiday weekend I pulled off the motorway to charge my leaf and plugged it in to a chademo charger. Both times It took 45 minutes to go from less than 15% to around 93% when it then notified me that charging was complete. I dont see a problem with this as my leaf seems to go from 100% down to 93% in less than ten miles of round town driving so I hardly think the last 7% on the gauge is worth waiting for. No significant temperature increase was seen on the temp gauge. I drove another 60 miles on the motorway and returned home with 63% remaining. Perhaps yours and others out there have faults wih their batteries!!??
As I said it's the 3rd Successive rapid that's the issue the first 2 rapids are fine
I'm experiencing issues with my 2014 Outlander PHEV as well. I have an app called PHEV Watchdog which connected to the PHEV ECU and reads all information via CAN bus. I can prove there is a problem since the last software update with losing energy while parking. I got around 1-5km less of EV range after parking and have done heaps of documentation and testing in regards to this on my channel. Mitsubishi refuses to acknowledge the data I've provided using this 3rd party app (which reads the same details as the MUT III unit in their workshop btw). Most dealerships don't seem to know anything about the car. They have done the Mitsubishi provided training but there is not real world experience, no experts, no nerds in regards to these vehicles. 14% reduction in battery's State of Health in 5 months is clearly not OK. The SOH was down to 80% before, they did a ECU/BMS reset and it went back to 100% with 60km range for the PHEV....
The lack of software updates and service quality from Mitsubishi and other manufacturers is what is really holding us back from truely adopting EVs. Ans now I'm hearing and seeing this problem with the 40kW Leaf. All these new cars they supposed to get better after the previous version?
Imagine this Nissan leaf on a 44 degree Celsius day in Australia. We sometimes get a few weeks a year of these temperatures over the Christmas/school holiday period when everyone goes on holidays.
Hi that was a blow to learn of the self destruct attitude of the Nissan Management . I have a fabulous 2011 24kwh LEAF a lovely metallic blue one .. I never fast charge because it is used as a shopping trolley for my wife who suffers from emphysema.. Plus there are so few rapid charging outlets in Portugal that the 24kwh Leaf would never reach the next outlet. My LEAF has 29,000 km on its speedo and all 12 battery condition segments showing .. .
are we sure the batteries need cooling under average conditions?
Thank you; now wondering if I should cancel my order!.......................
So would a Renault Zoe 41 have won the race? A battery as big as the Leaf 2.0, but with thermal management systems?
I have not experienced the major slowdown on Chademo charging. My 40kWh charges at 46kW until at 73% and stays around 33 kW until 85%. Nissan was not cutting costs. The slow down of the charging is a limit set by the battery manufacturer. I use LeafSpy and know exactly what the temperature of the battery is. The root of the problem is the BMS being badly programmed due to the restrictions set by the battery producer. The charging rate drops down too quickly based upon actual temperature of the battery. Yes my 30kWh Leaf sustains a higher charge rate versus the 40kWh. This can be easily resolved by Nissan. As a 24kWh, 30kWh and 40kWh owner, Nissan must fix this ASAP!
Thanks for this information .....🙏🙏🙏we are tired about lying promotion from the auto industry
In an IC engine car, when foot is removed off accelerator pedal, a bonus braking effect is, obtained. Does the electric motor offer this?
Yes , all evs have regen braking , the motor is turned by the road wheels thus creating electricity which is then sent to the battery ,increasing your range !
This is not a long range vehicle, it has constraints, not intended for super long journeys.
Be interesting to see what happens in the summer months with the 'warmer' forced air cooling. All tests i have seen to date have been in the winter months - except recently with FullyCharged driving it well above sea level in Tenerife. it's colder up there.
Thanks Jonathan. A very civilised (and justified) set of comments. I love my (24Kwh) Leaf, as it does exactly what I want (ie a great little runaround), but there seems little point in producing a 40Kwh car if it's going to disappoint people looking to do longer journeys on a regular basis. A bit of an own goal ?
I'm quite pleased that I can't afford to replace my 24kwh Leaf. I plan to drive from Tamworth to Brittany sometime soon and I don't foresee any problems
Love my leaf 18 so far, but damn you are right, it is getting on my nerve
22 or 24 kw charging power doesn't take 4 to 5 hours for 40 kWh battery. It takes less than 2 hours for 100% charge.
But one should also note that charging rate is never linear, even for the 24 kwh Leaf average power is never even close to 50kW. Mostly it's around 30 kW and considerably less in the winter. You can use Leaf-spy or some other custom OBD tool to get the real graphs.
Hi Jonathan (I'll probably never do more than 2 per day RC that is) but I hope with everyone's help force Nissan into a permanent fix. Can I ask a question on how a software rather than a hardware fix will work? Surely if they could have made it work with software wouldn't their engineers tested that method? Cheers
Very informative - thank you, I was considering test-driving a Leaf 2 after seeing the review on Fully Charged by Robert LLewellyn as I plan some long drives / touring in the future. - - will hold fire and look at Zoe 40 or Zoe 60 when it comes out - I do like the look of leaf 2 technology but really don't want to be hanging round charging stations any longer than need be.
Hi John do you think the battery manufacturer has built in a restriction in quick charging the battery as Nissan no longer own the battery factory this would help against warranty claims as the battery will get a easier time
williamlorimer060867 yes !
Jonathan Porterfield It's different battery chemistry. Instead of lifepo4 it's now lithium polymer like Ioniq and Zoe 40 . Nissan should have added liquid / active battery cooling for new 40kwh .
Old lifepo4 chemistry can give great performance in passive cooling itself .
Thanks for telling us about this.
My experience with my 24 kw LEAF'S has been the battery does overheat when stringing together level 3 charging. On the West Coast Electric Highway between Ashland and Eugene OR, even limiting my charges to 80%, I have my battery temp getting up to red, such that I have had to sub in level 2 charging at one help keep the battery cooler. 2013 American Manufactured Nissan LEAF, 38,000 mi, 11 bars on the battery (down one bar). I am hoping that the next gen LEAF has some serious active battery cooling management both while charging and on the road.
Come on James ........where is the race?
rippedupno1 th-cam.com/video/QKlLuPLgKn0/w-d-xo.html
Great perspective! This is the way Nissan hopes to reduce battery warranty claims by limiting quick charging speed.
Did you just say lack of rapid charging ability on the new 40kwh nissan lead @ 0.30 secs? I am sure you meant lack of Battery Temp Management system (BMS)?
Holy cow JP...does it ever NOT rain where you live? :)
Hi Jonathan. The higher power density of the new leaf battery combined with Nissan being nervous over battery temperature and degradation has resulted in this rapid charge restriction. Best of luck when the temperature gets up (if it ever does). David
David Bayley yes your correct ! shouldn't be happening in 2018 ..if Tesla and Hyundai can build in TMS ..then why haven't Nissan?
My wife and I have just purchased a 2018 leaf and am very concerned about the heat problem that I’m going to get when we start our long journey summer travels. We too have owned a 2011 and a 2014 leaf and have had no problem since then in our journey up and down the rapid charging infrastructure on the motorway. If what you say is true then Nissan is going to be in a very sticky rapid gate. I am seriously going to be visiting my dealership on Monday with a desperate attempt to get to the bottom of this. If as you say its a software problem then it needs to be fixed and soon or a lot of orders are going to be cancelled. Most of my charging is from my house in the winter because we stay local.
The trouble is that Nissan will not be doing anything about this rapid charge problem. There answer is this. “We at NIssan didn’t make this car for long journey traveling. We just made it for local city driving. It was never our intention to build this car for long distance work. If you wish to do longer journeys then we suggest you buy a car suited for that mileage. I.E. a tesla, or one of our second hand leafs. Unlike you, we are banking on the 60 kWh leaf due out next year. HA, HA.”
As soon as you said the 60 Kwh has active thermal management the 40 Kwh leaf has to be a "whipping boy" before the 60 Kwh is released next year.
Mr. Nissan called me and said they were attempting to beat their old record for fastest electric vehicle depreciation. He assured me a used 2018 Leaf will have a resale value under 5K within three years. Beating their previous record by a few months. So there you have it.
We drove from Haugesund, (West coast Norway) to Plymouth and return last August/September (4500 kilometres) in out Hyundai Ioniq without a single hitch 😄
Go Haugesund asså😀👌👍
Hi Jonathan
Off the strength of your review with James last week, and having driven the New Leaf on a 100 mile round trip, I’m close to dropping a deposit on one, as a matter of interest on your group challenge drive (Race: ), what sort of speed did you average on motorways? Thank You
Dura Ace I stuck to my usual 55/60 mph in the new leaf . James no 2 ..did 70mph in the Ioniq!
Jonathan Porterfield interesting, I thought you may have tried to keep up with the ioniq, and the higher speeds had caused the Leaf it’s problems, Thank you for the reply
How much does it costs to quick charge an EV?
Hi Jonathan; how far would the TWO rapids take you in winter? I have one on order, and don't know if I should cancel! Tnx for all your efforts, great stuff.
I suppose you would start out from home with 150 miles, so the first stop would be at 130 miles and the second at 250, which would get you 370 miles. That's almost London-Edinburgh and 7 hours driving, which most people would choose to fly. A good strategy might be to use the lunch stop to charge at a fast charger.
Thank you I appreciate you trouble, I think this car will be suitable for my needs. Glad you highlighted this issue.
see the race here th-cam.com/video/QKlLuPLgKn0/w-d-xo.html
Brian, I think that as long as you don't attempt to hold a long distance "race " like others did, you'll be fine. Enjoy your car.
Oh dear I am awaiting my new leaf. Do I phone them up? They gave me such a good deal as well.
Kevin Hayes: Consumer law changed about a year ago in favour of the buyer. If your new Leaf proves unfit for purpose because of limitations to the number of rapid charges in a single journey, you have the right to reject the vehicle and your dealer is obliged by law to refund the purchase price in full if you reject within 30 days. He cannot insist on a repair ir a replacement without your agreement, so stick to your guns. You can also reject up to 6 months if you believe the fault existed when you bought the car but the refund is then negotiable to take account of the fact that you’ve had the use if the vehicle for that time. The dealer does not have to prove the fault did NOT exist but has to accept your word if your argument is reasonable and you believe it did.
Solution: Within the 30 day period, make a journey long enough to require 3 or more rapid recharges. Write down or better, photograph, readings on the charger and the car’s display and present to the dealer.
Even better, present the dealer at or prior to delivery with a letter which outlines what you’ve heard of the problem and states that if this born out when you take delivery, you reserve the right to reject the vehicle for a full refund. State that if the dealer won’t accept this, you will refer the matter to Trading Standards who will enforce the new law, and/or if you’re a subscriber to the Consumers Association’s (Which? Magazine) legal service, you will request them to fight your case. This will involve negative publicity (in Which?) for the dealer and Nissan, which they won’t want. Then carry out the repeat rapid recharge test within 30 days as I’ve outlined above.
BTW, my son has just successfully rejected a used ICE vehicle after 5 months of interrupted use and obtained a good refund without any quibble because he quoted the act name and its details in writing which the dealer was obliged to acknowledge or break the law.
Kevin Hayes I’ve not had any trouble with mine... I’ve only been on a trip where I QCed twice each way, but the heat bar was at about 1/3, and I’ve never seen it go above 1/2, even when QCing at 50kW.
I don’t believe this guy. He won’t let an engineer look at the car because “they know there’s something going on,” and he says 22kW charging would take 4-5 hours to get to 75% he’s full of BS.
Scott Gibson: If you search TH-cam and forums such as SpeakEV you’ll find Johnathon is far from the only person who has experienced the problem of restricted charge currents when charging more than twice in a single journey. In his latest video a day or so ago TH-camr Lemon-Tea Leaf shows figures for charge current vs battery temperature which demonstrate the problem very well; its clear that the current is being limited to protect the battery from overheating and the problem will surely increase as summer temperatures are reached.
Scott Gibson it might just be some battery packs. I will just have to oo a long run. How many miles did you get between charges.
Kevin Hayes I’ve been pretty consistently getting 100 miles while staying between 20 and 80 percent SOC. I’ve yet to reset my average mileage and it currently sits at 5.1mi/kWh. I’ve been really impressed so far.
surely a third party can come along and issue a kit to retrofit battery cooling in this cars?
To complicated and costly , the eNV200 has basic cooling to the battery , linked into the A/C of the van. This on the leaf would be very complicated with the leafs battery pack.
@@JonathanPorterfield OK, I accept what you say but I live in hope of some entrepreneurial person pursuing this and marketing a product or fitting service to solve this problem for Nissan. :-)
Brilliant footage from the old days! Sadly Nissan did cause the term rapidgate to become a thing in the end.