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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Fr. Thomas Keating comments on the phrase many people use in describing themselves as "spiritual but not religious," and how the established churches might respond to this. This is a bonus feature from the new series of talks by Fr. Thomas, "God is Love - The Heart of All Creation." The series is available as online video, downloadable mp3s and on DVD, with Spanish subtitles, from Contemplative Outreach:
www.contemplativeoutreach.org/...
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Father Keating is such a clear breath of discussion. What a message of trying to understand rather than be understood. I was raised in The Catholic Church and never connected with their teachings but I connect with Father Keating who is a Catholic. Go figure.
As a Catholic I was taught I was created to know, love and serve God in this life and the next. Is this not a meaningful purpose for life that is common to all traditions?
This is the most amazing response for me. His response is very respectful of the realities, the recognition of the power of the holy spirit responding to the needs of humanity and not being defensive. I find it a brilliant response, uniting with love and compassion...
Traductor
Great being! He was a friend of my Swami,
and understood the meaning of “Truth is One.
Paths are many.” 💥💥💥👍
My Friend there is only one path to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ the saviour of mankind. Unless your swami has taught you about Christ, you are on the wrong path.
Bow Bot perhaps the path of Christ goes beyond the constrictions of your particular brand of Christianity.
@@sevenswords8781 what is true is true through all over-400-billion galaxies. and our galaxy, the milky way, has over 400 billion suns.
the christ spirit is the core of all existence. you cannot hold the idea of the created world in your mind. let alone assume that you know the mind of god. but surrender is the point. and christ knew this, christ taught this.
be well
Christ in revealing God to us in the words he spoke and how he behaved is the Way but arguably not the only Way as Christ does not say he is the only Way to God
@@sevenswords8781 Tolerance for other religions is not in you vocabulary I suspect.Try converting the whole world to your point of view.Good luck on that one.😊
Very powerful insight thank you to Fr. Thomas Keating, O.C.S.O. I read up on him. Very interesting man he was an American Catholic monk and priest of the Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance. Just like Thomas Merton, he believed that all religions and spiritual circles are trying to attain the same thing and we should all respect each others journey in getting there, very insightful
Wonderful presentation on spirituality by one by being doing and living for God is the only solution to attain our destiny in this life tq!
Wow. So clear and yet so difficult to apprehend. I watched this several times and I am amazed at the profound wisdom of Thomas Keating.
Wise words. A nuanced perspective on a difficult question. Thanks
This isn't wise. It's trendy and will lead you into hell.In one video he says that you realize that there is 'the other' than that you have to become 'the other' then realize that you are 'the other'. I AM. God told Moses that He is I AM. Then Jesus told the Pharisees that before Abraham was, I AM. Now the N.A. R. Seeker friendly, Word Of Faith, the Emergents and the Contemplatives and the Roman church are claiming it as well. It was the first lie that the the devil told Eve--that they could be like God--and it's worked so well he doesn't have to change his tactics. Exodus 3:14 .God said to Moses, “ I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘ I AM has sent me to you.’”......John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Please read the Word in a good translation for discernment and not mystical 'wisdom' It will send you to hell.
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This is hilarious. The teachings of a 93 year old monk are "trendy."
Clouseau the cat the R.C. does not teach pantheism
@@wiredforstereo ... On the outside, I actually can't see where that would be amusing, a trendy 93 year old monk. It's actually quite amazing! In the 1970s when yoga and meditation we're becoming popular, priests were aware of contemplative prayer but it was not being practiced in the church. Father Keating researched it and found this ancient practice has been part of daily life we're all Christians from the first century. many of the saint talked about practicing the same level of prayer and the closeness to God experienced and the transformation. You not only researched it, he learned it and taught it. Thanks for posting!
@@user-ld6pf1qt1n It's amusing that someone would accuse a 93 year old monk teaching 1500 year old practices of being "trendy."
I'm learning so much here, I'm his fan.
I'm learning as well
As always Father Thomas's keen clarity, perspective and wisdom feeds my soul. with eternal love, Reverend Constance McClain
Man his wisdom. Felt this
Gloria in Excelsis Deo!
Wise words
Religions should be less concerned with people being Spiritual but not Religious, and more concerned with the greater issue of being Religious but not Spiritual.
leave some love for the future children of mankind
Beautiful
Ik that there is a lot of back and forth about religious and spirituality. I can say that I am Spiritual but not religious, even though I believe in God and I believe in Jesus Christ and the more I’ve read the Bible when it came to the live before and after Christ. And it honestly more spiritualities then religious. When it comes to religious a lot of people live by the old covenant instead of the new covenant which is faith based. Jesus was a spirit in a dirt body, which means he understood humanity and feelings like all of us. Jesus was a man a faith and a believer of all thing is possible with the right mindset and faith in his heart. Honestly that is very spirituality, we was put on earth to create what is in heaven , which is love, sharing, abundance, wealth for all humanity on earth. When it comes to spirituality, I myself pray not only for myself but for others, I meditate to calm myself down, I listen to people to a better understanding, I believe that everything I pray for is already done and what I ask for requires actions. Being a righteous person is far greater then being a religious person because that is what spirituality is all about. I am not living through Fear but I am living through Faith, belief, and freedom. I chose love over over anger . I chose to use the mind that God had bless me with and not be wicked. I chose to be active and not laziness. I’m not here to tell people how to live their lives but I am here I let everyone know that it is not okay to judge someone because they not what you are. God want us to live a righteous life and choose him in everything we do. I love you all and pray that all have a understanding and give God/The most high thanks everyday moving forward.
PSA- I am NOT against Religious, I just believe I am a righteous person through God at heart
A mix of Father Thomas and E Michael Jones of culture wars and fidelity press is the perfect Catholic balance in my opinion
Multiple generations of Catholics have been raised now on a diet of watered down simplified spiritual nourishment in mainstream Catholicism...life long Catholics could easily live their entire religious experience without going any deeper than attending a Mass once per week (or probably much much less) out of nothing more than a sense of cultural obligation. Why would the young people (or the older people these days too now) find anything appealing about such a habit? They don't...and they shouldn't. Humans crave more than a few acoustic guitar songs about Love in their spiritual diet...and if they can't get it at their parish Church where they grew up (or, more likely, their parents grew up) they will seek it elsewhere. The result is spiritual, but not religious. And you can't but nod and say you understand why.
If you want people to see the value in religion you need to give them something more nourishing...they crave it. When the Church realizes that (and when people realize the Church is offering it) they will return to the Church or find themselves drawn to it regardless of upbringing. I would never bring a curious young person seeking God to my local parish Mass on a typical day if they expressed interest...I'm too certain it would turn them off to the whole idea before it had a chance to grow in them. Sad reality about the state of most parishes, but realizing the shortcomings is also the first step to change.
My guess is Religion is ppl accepting The Word to be the Truth, whereas Spiritual seeks to KNOW the Truth The Word is pointing to aka God.
Spirituality does not seek to "know" the Truth that The Word is pointing to (aka God). Spirituality is BEING the Truth of man's oneness with God. True spirituality is "realizing" that Truth of oneness with God.
Many people try to practice what they think is "spirituality." However, they are merely pursuing an extended version of their human sense of religiosity, which is to say: They are still laboring under their emotional programs for happiness, goodness and godliness, and working on the erroneous premise of having a human/personal sense of self that is separate and apart from God. It is a "catch-22" and there is no escaping that.
One does not break free from the matrix of the human condition until and unless one stops drinking the Kool-Aid that makes him or her a sheeple to the illusions and lies. One needs to take the sour pill of Truth --- the acceptance and inner realization of God's indivisible and inseparable oneness --- that awakens from the inception of the journey back to experienced wholeness.
Religion is simply a practice which helps you enter into the truth. Your religion can be an hour of daily meditation, or it can be singing in a community, or meeting with a group of fellow travelers on a similar path.
Meeting people where they are is Christian. Eventually they may want to meet us where we are. Christ was not discussed here. But he would be eventually as he is the answer and he transforms the world to love with consent always. As far as an evolution to a new spirituality goes, this is not needed. We are not in trouble because we lack great teaching, only because we always fail to follow the great teaching. You can’t improve on Christ just in how much you surrender to him.
If people say they're spiritual but not religious it's perhaps because they don't find the religious to be sufficiently spiritual
There is a lot of religious wars going on in the Catholic Church that are just as divisive as what goes on with our politics.
Yes but the bible tells you this ,it started that way and is goin to last all the way to the end of the world.
My money says it is of man, not God. In part due to "hardly anyone gets ANY religious education since parents do not know what to teach..." I seem to recall Christ being obedient, "Thy will, not mine be done..." Non-violence definitely. The age we are entering into appears to be more of a spiritual desert than an new awakening. Truth is truth, not yours and mine-there is One ultimately.
By and large, “humans prefer a manageable complexity to an unmanageable simplicity.” Bruno Barnhart
God is love. Love God with your whole heart, your whole mind and your whole spirit and love your neighbor as yourself. Or, as Augustine put it, “love and do what you will.” This is too simple for most people.
Most people want to know how they can be sure they’re “doing it right,” So professing creeds and belief in dogmas and doctrines and keeping rules and participating in rituals shores up their insecurity and gives one the comfortable feeling they are on the right path. This false sense of security is afforded by belonging to a religious organization and being a member in good standing with that group.
But it is too tribal a mentality for some and the absurdity that following church rules, laws and professions of faith make one right with God are being rejected in favor of more expandive and inclusive ways of being in the world that lay responsibility for relationship with God squarely at the feet of individuals who understand that it is mercy God desires, not sacrifice. They are willing to live in the place where love is asking much more of them than being a devout practitioner and ignoring the anawim.
Beautifully articulated...Thank you for that🙏
d00d - U R the man!!! Talking that!
Humility in one self, loving kindness to All, and and Devotion to God, and are All 3 not necessary?
well put
Furthermore people can get caught up in following some devi, would be bodhisattva, or even animal as cult leader. When the real spirituality identifies a God head that is beyond any limitation of this world . This is most easily found in the worlds monotheistic religions.
If I had a priest as wise as Fr Keating I might be tempted back to the RC church. As it is I have so many ethical issues with my church such as discrimination against women, gays, divorced people; plus the huge pedophilia scandals and commensurate and unmeasurable suffering that has resulted to so many. These are the reasons so many Catholics are not participating any longer. I've had a Bishop tell me that people are godless now days, which to me means we are not godless, but want a fairer and more inclusive version of Catholicism. It also told me that the Catholic church has no idea that it is responsible for alienating us and is not mature enough to take responsibility for this. It's so much easier to claim a sweeping generalisation that we are godless.
Karen the Catholic church is an institution that passes on the laws and commandments of God, and that is the reason why people left the church as they did not want the laws of God, they want divorce and Abortion etc and want to sleep in on sunday, I believe it is a cop out to say I left because of the church teaching on divorce when it is God who said he hates divorce etc,
No real catholic would ever consider leaving the church because it is in the church we find our Salvation in Christ. Christ gave us the church for our salvation , if people want to pick and choose what to believe then they should start their own religion based on their own beliefs, and that's what many did hence 40 000 denominations of Christians all teaching what ever suits them. I for one am glad that the church will not budge to the demands of Pagans who want them to become humanists and libertarians and fill the house of God with sin.
I don't care much about the people running it as we all know monsters entered the church because everyone fell asleep and did their own thing instead of staying awake fasting and praying.
In spite of the appalling abuses that you mention, after many years in the wilderness and more years following other spiritual paths, I am returning the profound Catholic faith of my childhood. I am not any more than Father Keating claiming that the Church is the exclusive way to God and the only preparation for what a late friend called the last great adventure (death); but within the Catholic Church, the faith of many of our ancestors, I have discovered an over-powering flood of love and a melting of the heart both in receiving the Sacrament of the Eucharist and in kneeling at the foot of the cross, going back to Saints Peter and Paul and the Desert Fathers, through the English mystics and martyrs right up until today.
Try the Episcopal or Orthodox traditions...
@@sevenswords8781 You make it sound as if been a pagan is a bad thing lol
How about using another word that defines been against your faith, because believe it or not, paganism is not what YOU assume to be
Karen, God loves you and He is waiting for you to come back to His loving and merciful arms in the Catholic Church.
Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ, save us and the whole world. Amen.
perhaps I am having a bad day, but I feel I have heard talks of his that sounded much more alive and convincing than this one...
I don’t think that he was attempting to convince anyone of anything.
In one video he says that you realize that there is 'the other' than that you have to become 'the other' then realize that you are 'the other'. I AM. God told Moses that He is I AM. Then Jesus told the Pharisees that before Abraham was, I AM. Now the N.A. R. Seeker friendly, Word Of Faith, the Emergents and the Contemplatives and the Roman church are claiming it as well. It was the first lie that the the devil told Eve--that they could be like God--and it's worked so well he doesn't have to change his tactics. Exodus 3:14 .God said to Moses, “ I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘ I AM has sent me to you.’”......John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Please read the Word in a good translation for discernment and not mystical 'wisdom' It will send you to hell.
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Absolute rubbish. Unless one realizes the I AM of God as ones own I AM then there is no true Salvation. This has nothing to do with ego and pride, quite the opposite for that only blocks union with God and keeps one is a state of hell. Enjoy your hell.
Mind spirituality is never enough for salvation.One of the most spiritual creatures was satan but lost because he and so called spiritual people are choosing own mindset self inflicted mind idols as a God and only thinking or not thinking with mind changing conditions are worshipping own mindsets own idol gods thinking that is God but it only own interpretation of reality as eastern religions or protestants or muslims do and can lead to many sorts of eval practices as well . That's why God become flash incarnet in begoten His Son Jesus Christ in flash not only in mind or teaching or in kind of profit writings minds or philosophy but remain also in True Body and Blood of God Jesus Christ in Holy Eucharist Communion Bread and wine true Body and Blood of God ...not only in mind or emotion and Eucharist can be found only in Catholic Church true apostolic Jesus Christ established Church with God authority left to Peter and successors for ever and that's why we can be not lost in own interpretation and so called human spirituality or in eval spirits and univers energies or nirvanas were is no personal God as Jesus but only invisible something and it is only your mind and that's why it's no salvation changing minds or emotional state.There is no ground to be really with God because there is no God only own mind Idol and own will and thinking that is God but Christian God is not you and your minds and tryings but acceptence God always next to you and next to creation but not part of the creation that's why Jesus or Christian God is I Am or I AM who I Am ...He is not what we think about Him but we can be united with Him accepting Him not only in mind and Holy Spirit but in flash as Jesus then and now in Eucharist ...all is important and that is His authority and authoritative Catholic Church only and Eucharist and not only in spirituality.There is no salvation outside Body of Christ and Catholic Church but who doesn't now or never new and had a chance to know GodJesus Christ not by own ignorance it can be possible to be saved by good heart and seeking God with your all minds and conchesnes but no guarantee because of possibilities to be lost in own mind spiritualities as idols and even nature and universe diabolic practices as anti-Christ God mindsets therefore in own interpretation wchich is not the same as beeing with God Jesus Christ in Spirit and flash in Eucharist and Eucharistic Church Catholic Church as God Jesus Body in union with Him but not only in own spirituality minds mindsets or iliusions
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I passed through this realm since religion is not spiritual
He is enlightened, and as a result, he is spiritual, and not religious anymore.
It does not follow. One can be "enlightened" and still go about performing religious practices and rituals as the expression of spirituality. Check out the life and teachings of Sri Ramakrishna, founder of the Vedanta Order.
Would one who is brag about it?
If your religious your not Christian. If your Christian your not religious. Christian has one master . Religious have many .
Western Christianity is simply not providing for people's spiritual needs, it's far too simplistic/exoteric and needs to emphasise the contemplative life once again.
I defeated the lion THOMAS ... 🙏
One answer is a challenge to the source to appeal to logic and objectivity.
The Church teaches the source and summit of the Christian life is the Eucharistic life. Thomas Keating seems to teach a vague universal contemplation is the source and summit where the teachings of Christ are left behind or morphed into a pot of spiritual stew along with the other religious traditions where there is no distinction once contemplation is reached and practiced. God revealed himself in the burning bush as “I am” not “we are” to Moses.
you are confused-Christ is Universal. Keep learning.
Psalm 95.5 'for all the gods of the pagans are devils'. (Douay Rheims). What a tragedy that Fr Keating, with all his learning and goodwill (?) was a modernist, i.e. a heretic. 🙏
The arrogance to claim you know exactly what god is. They follow religion not because they have felt a god, but because they have been told about it by another person. I believe in a god or gods, I do not claim to know the amount of higher entities, but I definitely believe in a god. If I chose one religion and claimed it is the way I would be lying to myself.
"Spiritual but not religious" is basically cherry-picking, which is fine if there's no higher power involved. It means you pick and choose what parts of various religions/denominations you like and make up your own, personalized version of religious reality. In my opinion, most people these days do this to some extent, including those that are ostensibly full-fledged members of existing religions.
But if there's a higher power involved, your opinions do not alter that higher power's reality anymore than my belief that super models should find me attractive actually makes that happen.
Take hell for example. If I don't believe it exists, that has absolutely zero bearing on whether or not hell is real. I don't get a vote. In a universe where there actually is an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent deity, people like you and me have zero votes. It's not a democracy.
So as long as we follow you, will be OK.
this writer does not understand the spiritual monk, probably is not ready to such a deep comprehension, is easy to read the anger of the ego in his comment. so sad.
I'd like to highlight the distinction between picking what one wants reality to be vs what reality is probably like. Sometimes people have excellent reasons for not being religious; however they acknowledge they are spiritual beings. Other times, it seems people just want to do what they want to do. It really depends on the person.
While we don't get to vote on our preferred reality, it's also true each individual has the responsibility of discovering what is likely true, so they can act accordingly. If I relinquish the responsibility of conscience by merely giving it over to religious leaders, that is not virtuous - despite being easier, and despite religious doctrines to the contrary.
Oh my God this is so far from the truth... I am extremely fed I spiritually I and not by a controlling religion... This is the problem with the church they believe they have a monopoly on God... It's been used year after year as control.... Many have died at the hands of religion.... I spent my Life in church up to 20 years ago. I found myself with God When I walked away from other people's beliefs and the way they were teaching and found my own peace in my own heart with God it was the best thing that I ever did in my whole life and nothing will change that... For him to say we are not spiritually fed do not speak for everyone sir no matter who you are and how respected you are... Just like he said they're seeking fame well so is he.... Absolutions do not fit with me... Love one another that's all you have to do..You Are the only one that knows if God is in your heart or not... This is why it's called a personal relationship with God not everyone else's business... Religion is control we have gone all wrong here people... So many people speaking for God... I listen to my own heart that's all that matters when I lay my head down in bed at night... Who does he think he is that we have to follow his authority to know God... Oh my God this is so sick... I will pray for this man
Triggered?
God loves you. May the Holy Spirit of God lead you to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
Most Precious Blood of Jesus Christ, save us and the whole world. Amen.
Religion is a discipline within which you may find spirituality or not or even the wrong spirituality that is not god centered . I would disagree with him in calling them " religious wars " so much more of the conflicts have been oil or commodity or ideological wars . The world trade center trigger was done of course by Salafists but the target itself was chosen for its materialistic symbolism. And the wars before them were either cartel related dominance of oil or infidel invasions for economic gain ie the russian invasion of Afghanistan and now ukraine. But I agree that the role of religions particularly of the monotheistic sort is to look beyond economic gains to the larger spiritual unity of God's umbrella. He talks about the power, control , security , esteem, affection needs or drives of people but people generally don't reach for the spiritual unity until those needs reach a satisfactory security level because it's hard to reach the development level of satisfaction. Merton referred to them as the birds of appetite always wanting to be fed. So they're in the nest chirping till they can fend for themselves. And even out of the nest there's a desperate longing even for the bread that will not fill them because of the souls longing for oneness. The order filled mertons security needs so he could reach beyond that entailed some lessons in humility which lowered his esteem some but did eliminate his self regard.
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The cultural shift Keating is promoting is definitely moving away from true Christianity. The Bible makes it crystal clear that there is no other way to God except by Jesus Christ who said: I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
Where did he say he was not. He mentioned Jesus in the first few minutes . Maybe you haven't climbed Jesus back to the father through the Holy spirit. That would be through him with him and in him as they say at mass. Jesus is not full stop but one with the father through the Holy Spirit. There are plenty of other talks from him about Jesus which may open your mind.
The tiresome employer methodically stuff because color provisionally brake a a gainful brandy. phobic, brown vest
Blah blah blah
What he says is demonic and his hissing sounds demonic.
Clouseau the cat What a nasty thing to say. How ironic.
Clouseau the cat You too will grow old and hopefully wise like Thomas Kinsella and if your voice sounds like a hiss hopefully people will not say you are demonic !
If you don’t like Father Keating, something is wrong with YOU.
check out QUAKERSPEAK here on youtube.