Oh that was brilliant. He waffled on without saying anything of value. He had to run off as you knew more about this bible book than he did. It was impossible to get him to face up to and discuss animal cruelty.
i love the video style, well done. there's only so much you can do when it comes to religious dogma. I love the ending... god is telling me to go.... that really cracked me up
Right on dude! For a nonbeliever, you did an excellent job with a believer. Sadly, this guy couldn't focus. Or, maybe it wasn't an issue of focus but more like he was avoiding having to deal with his sin now that you made it apparent to him
6:15 "I can't answer for him" My friend that is what Christians do all day every day. They say they know how god wants us to live. Until it's inconvenient...
Ask a christian how God wants us to treat each other, and we can answer, because the bible says what God wants us to do. We can’t answer the question “Would Jesus be a vegan?”, because the bible never says if eating meat is good or bad. Therefore we can’t answer for him. God bless! 🙌
Great video James. I get approached when doing activism, by religious zealots like this. They always try to convert me lol, so I ask if they're vegan, because as God is so compassionate, surely he would want love & kindness for all beings. They say the Bible tells them we must eat animals, because God put them on the earth, for us to do with what we want. These people are brainwashed & use their religion to justify the abuse of animals. They also don't understand God's meaning of 'Dominion' it wasn't to exploit animals, it was to act as caretakers & protect them.
You are good at this! I love the annotations. Unfortunately you will come across close minded people with heavily cemented/indoctrinated outlooks from time to time, that can't be helped. You did amazingly well considering.
OMFG! So fed up with brainwashed people defending bad behavior with ancient story books. That circus music at the end was appropriate as you mentioned loop holes. ahahaha!!
The Flaw in Genesis 9:3. The Flaw has to do with the purpose of the Flood. The Flood was to get rid of the Wicked people, so only the Un-Wicked would survive. And then, because of the Flood, those Un-Wicked people were then forced to do 2 Wicked things. 1) Kill an Animal. 2) Eat an Animal. Long ago, Buddha knew that people in the future would come up with many sophisticated arguments to defend their Meat Eating and one example that’s used quite often by Christians has a Huge Flaw in it and that’s where the Clean Meat after the Flood comes in. The Flaw has to do with the purpose of the Flood. The Flood was to get rid of the Wicked people, so only the Un-Wicked would survive. And then, because of the Flood, those Un-Wicked people were then forced to do 2 Wicked things. 1) Kill an Animal. 2) Eat it. God didn’t Change our Anatomy. We’re still Designed to Eat Plants. Oh, Eat the Animals, but you got to make sure they’re Clean Animals! But wait a second; Sin came into the World through our Mouths - through Eating. It’s Eating the Wrong Food that makes us Wicked. So we’re going to get rid of everybody and start anew, but we’re going to start by doing the thing that made us Wicked to begin with. There’s No Logic in that. There’s a Huge Flaw in this Reasoning. It Lacks Reasoning. It Lacks Logic. Let’s get rid of the Wicked and turn the Un-Wicked into the Wicked ! We’re Eating the Wrong Food! We Stopped Eating Biophotons. Now we’ve got the Wrong Mentality. Let’s make that Mentality even Worse by Eating Dead Animal Flesh. It only Darkens the Dark Side of our Behavior. Even the Grain-Eating Nations that were Not Eating Biophotons and Eating Plants that they’re Not Biologically Designed to Eat did better in every Area of Life than all of the Meat Eating Nations, except for 2 Main Areas. One was their War-like Tendencies and the other was their Obsession with Sex. As long as we Eat our Biophotons and Eat our Species Specific Diet, we will have Abundance. And as soon as we Stop Eating Biophotons and Stop Eating our Species Specific Diet, we have Scarcity. It’s really that simple. Life is an Illusion. Restrict your Dietary Choices and we have Abundance. Eat whatever you want and we have Scarcity.
I don’t get the point you are making with the flood. Never in the bible is it stated wrong to eat meat or kill animals. In Genesis 3:21, right after the fall, God makes clothes made of animal skin and clothes Adam and Eve. God loves all humans, but animals are not made our equal, as we were made in the image of God and given dominion over the Earth. God bless! 🙏
@@jonaslantz3453 "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in the sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?" -Jesus
I mean: "He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck..." not really ambiguous, is it?
@@Destroyer28911 Chapter 15 Jesus and Vegetarianism Page 229 “Similar mistranslations have occurred with the use of the word fish. The misunderstanding of the use of this word results in a portrayal of Jesus as eating fish and encouraging the eating and killing of fish by others. In this early church, the word fish was a secret term. The Greek word for fish is I-CH-TH-U-S. It is made up of the first three letters of the words: Jesus Christos Theou Uios Soter. This translates as Jesus Christ Son of God Savior. The fish is also found as a Christian symbol in the catacombs. It is also symbolic of the Piscean Age which was emerging at that time. It is entirely conceivable that the word fish, as used in the New Testament, was used primarily in this deeper mystical way. Since Jesus taught in parables and metaphors, I believe its use in the New Testament was used to communicate this deeper meaning of fish rather than the literal idea of a dead fish that was physically eaten. In this context, the feeding of the fish to the people is a metaphor for the feeding of the higher teachings of the Master to the masses. In a second century book by Irenaeus (120-202 C.E.), it is twice stated that Jesus fed the multitude of 5,000 with bread alone. Others have pointed out that there is a submarine plant called the fish plant that was used as a food in that era, as well as during Babylonian times. These fish plants were dried in the sun, beaten into a mortar and baked into bread-like rolls that were sold in the open market. Perhaps in the translation, the plant portion of the word designated as the fish plant was omitted. It was only in the fourth century that fish was added to the bread offering in the scriptures. This suggests the second century version of the Gospel of Hebrews might be more authentic. In this second century translation, it says in Lection XXIX, verses 7 and 8: “And when he had taken the six loaves and the seven clusters of grapes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and the grapes also, and gave then to his disciples to set before them, and they divided them among them all.” “And they did all eat and were filled. And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments that were left. And they that did eat of the loaves and of the fruits were about five thousand men, women and children, and He taught them many things.” In any case, the souls of the 5,000, we can assume, were at least fed with the mystical meaning of fish.” -Gabriel Cousens, M.D., “Conscious Eating” pp. 230-231
@@Destroyer28911 Geeerms😈 and viiiruses👿 is animaIs like cows and chicken and pigs and fish. Plants and fruit and nuts etc, has No germs and No viruses. TH-cam delicious vegan food, like mushroom 🍄🟫 ’steaks’ and tons of healthy foods !!! .. We are herbivores ✅❤️⭕️😬💪🦍🦧🐵🐒👩🏽👱🏼♂️👍
I believe you did great up until near the end of the conversation , you even got him to agree on veganism being the Christian moral obligation !!! which is a Very Big Achievement , but things got pretty funny after that ...
This is a ridiculous take. Antsy, defensive and self-defeatist? I got fed-up of the bullshit and being told I was going to hell for merely not believing - whether I did good or not. You really think I can't dismantle the bullshit that is the ten commandments? I'm not doing activism to debate religion. I'm doing activism to get people vegan. This man was not happy to end the conversation with agreement and continued to tell me I was going to hell unless I believed - at which point, I was more than happy to be ridicule and poke holes in what he was preaching. How do YOU reconcile the notion of a God that loves us with his explicit genocidal, discriminatory and oppressive nature?
@@JamesKiteActivism The theory is : he gave us free will , to set up many moral & ethical tests for us in life , to later make the final determination about the level of our purity & loyalty to his teachings , to determine our deservability or not of his Heaven ( perhaps he is cautions from having another future Satan propping up again in his house, i don't know , you have to ask him that your self personally ) , i often wondered much of the same !!! and why is he allowing mankind to get away with so much Evil tyranny / killing and abuse to all kinds of poor animals :(( I know you don't believe he exists , but it is also worth considering that there is too much archeological & ancient scripts literature discoveries that points in the direction of : mankind being given a Very Big Leg Up / Special Favours ( from a much Higher intelligent Power ) in its evolution over other animals , that some of which , even existed millions of years before it , and yet they still have not evolved much intellectually compared to people !!! or physically to deal with or balance off the deadly threats that been coming towards them from the mankind animal specie ...( when they had evolved many good defences against their natural animal predators which prevented their extension via predation , up until mankind showed up on the planet . Cheers / Regards
@@nonavailable4000 with respect, you've addressed none of my response or challenges. The world view you have outlined is both unsubstantiated and incoherent. Please refrain from making insulting and assumptive comments, if you're going to change the subject when I take my time to respond to every point you make.
@@JamesKiteActivism Dude , i appreciate what you are doing for the animals , so am not trying to debate you out , am trying to bridge you closer to the mindset of religious hardliners that don't care about "food" animals and you are gonna face a lot of them in your future outreach !!! Sorry about my rough description of your attitude change towards him later in your debate , so i will amend that description to something nicer . i can happily reply to a couple or more of opinion points you made about God , substantiation of his existence & what not , but you would think that i was trying to convert you , when am basically on your side about animal rights . Have a great day man
Your description is somewhat problematic. You can't reconcile the positions "(I did my best to be agreeable while keeping the discussion about animals and will always strive to help people align their existing values (religiously affiliated or not) with animal rights)" with "Further, in all honesty, I have huge problems with religious dogma. It gets in the way of truth, showing hostility to science, critical thinking and scepticism - whilst being the source of ignorant, oppressive and bigoted world views to many (- not all!)." I've been studying modern veganism lately, and find that updating both religious arguments (mankind didn't actually start eating meat until *after the flood, not after the fall*, according the Church Fathers) and philosophical opposition to eating meat (it's nonsensical to apply human rules to animals eating other animals, which dovetails with the idea that man is in fact given some level of dominion over the earth which can be used in a non-destructive fashion) has at least opened my eyes to practical veganism being a real ideal within the Church, while noting that because it is pragmatic, it's still a moral zero in terms of actual salvation (hence I have no real opposition to veganism but I think a lot of the pro-vegan side focuses on virtue signalling, which gives it a "religious air" which is counter-productive.) Hell is a choice, but the truth is more interesting than such a binary. Would love to discuss Christianity and veganism further. All the best with your channel-- happy to sub and learn.
Hi :D, I shall be direct. There's no contradiction in having those positions. One is about my approach and the other is about my personal views on the matter. I care more about whether or not someone is vegan than the problems with religiosity. Second: "modern veganism" is not a thing. Charitably, I assume you mean in terms of its advocacy. - the vegan philosophy has not shifted. As much as I have engaged with theocracies , I don't care to engage with them to that level. My point is simple: the bible tells a story that starts vegan and ends vegan - with plenty of acknowledgement to the moral qualms of exploiting animals. If God is remotely benevolent and merciful, veganism is a moral imperative. Your interpretation of "virtue signalling" is just that - an interpretation - with no real foundation. Further, even if 90% of vegan activists were purely virtue signalling, that factor would be a non-sequitur to the ethical rationale on the table. Its "religious air" is entirely attributed to it by those outside of the movement. We deal with facts - not dogma. Hell is a wholly immoral concept and is not a choice. I cannot 'choose' to just believe in something - I have to be convinced - I cannot control what convinces me. If belief is a necessity of avoiding hell, it is no choice at all. We have no evidence to know of "truth" concerning the afterlife claim. I hope you appreciate my directness and honesty. Please look into/watch the content I share on my card. Thanks for engaging :) James.
@@JamesKiteActivism Your candor is indeed appreciated. For full disclosure (if you hadn't noticed) I had a debate on veganism last year which is actually what got me interested in the researching the subject (my understanding of the subject was pretty dated, but to be fair, so was my opponent's), but I imagine more people remember that debate and assume I am anti-vegan (I'm very much not.) I posit that indeed it's possible there is no change in veganism philosophically, but at the least I don't remember two decades ago vegans arguing that bivalve consumption is ok due to the ever-shifting sentience argument. Certainly dealing with scavenger and open air egg discussions does "muddy up" the waters between a clean "yes" or "no". (I was more referring to celebrity and "popular" veganism than dedicated activists. I should have been more specific, and I should have been more specific that the "cute animals" argument --which I am not accusing you of-- has led to-- especially today-- many a new carnivore being created.) On to the question of dogma vs fact, I can only say that having atheist carnivores are a tad crueler than the religious ones, I would think. That said, on the question of hell, I hate to say that my explanation would satisfy the urge to complacency, but the proximate loss is only subjectively horrifying to those aware of what they lose. Nevertheless, I do appreciate your taking time to respond, I do wish the best for your channel, and if you want to continue this discussion or a related one, I'm more than happy to. Cheers! In XC, Fr Joseph
@@theorthodoxapologeticschan9378 Veganism is clear and we don't need to have "a line" when we don't need to make one. I don't need bivalve or honey - so why bother debating their sentience if it's grey? - give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't understand your point on "cute animals" - you seemingly have a muddied understanding of veganism and should look up its definition. This is a non-sequitur: "I can only say that having atheist carnivores are a tad crueller than the religious ones" to my dogma vs fact point. I was criticising your description of veganism's "religious air". Both atheist carnivores and religious ones are as cruel as each other - they both rely on unsubstantiated dogma. And this makes no sense: "my explanation would satisfy the urge to complacency, but the proximate loss is only subjectively horrifying to those aware of what they lose" - and, to be blunt, sounds like pretentious waffle. If you respond, please do clearly and directly with your a-game. Nuances, semantics and religion are a bore to discuss when I simply want people to stop enslaving, sexually-exploiting and murdering animals. All the best
Wrong. The verse you are thinking of is, “thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”. It’s a prayer for wishing Gods will to happen, not a statement on how we should act.
Great questions you ask!
Ahhh...man, as soon as they go religious you have to deal with all sorts of crap.
Yep, you can't use logic on people who live in fantasy.
Religious arguments are much harder to make because you often cant argue with empathy.
When someone says they will pray for me, I use Mike Brigandi’s retort and say I will think for them.
Jesus was compassionate to all! Shame on those who torture!
Amen😊🙏💚
@@NathanBlackberry 💚🌱
@@jayeshpatel9854 💚💚💚🤗🤗🤗
keep going for animals !!! Thank you from Vienna !
Religion 🤪You don’t need ancient scripture to know what is morally right. Follow your heart. Go Vegan. James amazing Outreach! 🇦🇺🌱
Thank you for speaking up for animals 💖💖💖💖
Hopefully made him think, but it's so tough with the religion, the dogma eclipses all things....
God!!!
Massive patience on the part of the Activist !
Great outreach, thanks for speaking out for animals.
I think you broke him with that last one, 😂, looked like his mind was blown and his beliefs rocked. Hence the swift bail! 😂 Great video! Much love 💚🌱
Oh that was brilliant. He waffled on without saying anything of value. He had to run off as you knew more about this bible book than he did. It was impossible to get him to face up to and discuss animal cruelty.
i love the video style, well done. there's only so much you can do when it comes to religious dogma. I love the ending... god is telling me to go.... that really cracked me up
well done mate . I couldn't hold it that long with religious preachers
It’s so sweet and cool you made your own cards and are doing this on your own. So inspiring!
Thank you so much!
Great convo on your end, you were so patient with him.
💚💚💚🙏🙏🙏
Great stuff, thank you 💚💚
Well done James 💗💗
Right on dude! For a nonbeliever, you did an excellent job with a believer. Sadly, this guy couldn't focus. Or, maybe it wasn't an issue of focus but more like he was avoiding having to deal with his sin now that you made it apparent to him
6:15 "I can't answer for him"
My friend that is what Christians do all day every day. They say they know how god wants us to live.
Until it's inconvenient...
Ask a christian how God wants us to treat each other, and we can answer, because the bible says what God wants us to do. We can’t answer the question “Would Jesus be a vegan?”, because the bible never says if eating meat is good or bad. Therefore we can’t answer for him. God bless! 🙌
Great video James. I get approached when doing activism, by religious zealots like this. They always try to convert me lol, so I ask if they're vegan, because as God is so compassionate, surely he would want love & kindness for all beings. They say the Bible tells them we must eat animals, because God put them on the earth, for us to do with what we want. These people are brainwashed & use their religion to justify the abuse of animals. They also don't understand God's meaning of 'Dominion' it wasn't to exploit animals, it was to act as caretakers & protect them.
vegan !!!!
Subscribed! Keep up the work, Earthling Ed and Joey Carbstrong also started with only few subscribers and look at their following now
Hey thanks! 🙏 ... New video out tomorrow! :D
Keep up the good work 👏
Great Video!
STOP LISTEN TO A BOOK THAT PEOPLE WROT, AND BE A GOOD PERSON! THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE! STOP BR CRUEL TO ANIMLAS! STOP BEING AN ANIMALS ABUSER!
You are good at this! I love the annotations. Unfortunately you will come across close minded people with heavily cemented/indoctrinated outlooks from time to time, that can't be helped.
You did amazingly well considering.
Ban Slaughter
Just watched and loved your "Disrupt Speciesism!" video!
@@JamesKiteActivism Hell Yeah! Thanks a bunch!
Hahahahaha remarkable - like a Chris Morris Sketch
when they spout the relegion stuff, just know they want the best for you and they are doing what they think is the best for you
OMFG! So fed up with brainwashed people defending bad behavior with ancient story books. That circus music at the end was appropriate as you mentioned loop holes. ahahaha!!
The Flaw in Genesis 9:3.
The Flaw has to do with the purpose of the Flood. The Flood was to get rid of the Wicked people, so only the Un-Wicked would survive. And then, because of the Flood, those Un-Wicked people were then forced to do 2 Wicked things.
1) Kill an Animal.
2) Eat an Animal.
Long ago, Buddha knew that people in the future would come up with many sophisticated arguments to defend their Meat Eating and one example that’s used quite often by Christians has a Huge Flaw in it and that’s where the Clean Meat after the Flood comes in. The Flaw has to do with the purpose of the Flood. The Flood was to get rid of the Wicked people, so only the Un-Wicked would survive. And then, because of the Flood, those Un-Wicked people were then forced to do 2 Wicked things.
1) Kill an Animal.
2) Eat it.
God didn’t Change our Anatomy. We’re still Designed to Eat Plants.
Oh, Eat the Animals, but you got to make sure they’re Clean Animals!
But wait a second; Sin came into the World through our Mouths - through Eating. It’s Eating the Wrong Food that makes us Wicked.
So we’re going to get rid of everybody and start anew, but we’re going to start by doing the thing that made us Wicked to begin with. There’s No Logic in that. There’s a Huge Flaw in this Reasoning. It Lacks Reasoning. It Lacks Logic.
Let’s get rid of the Wicked and turn the Un-Wicked into the Wicked !
We’re Eating the Wrong Food! We Stopped Eating Biophotons. Now we’ve got the Wrong Mentality. Let’s make that Mentality even Worse by Eating Dead Animal Flesh. It only Darkens the Dark Side of our Behavior. Even the Grain-Eating Nations that were Not Eating Biophotons and Eating Plants that they’re Not Biologically Designed to Eat did better in every Area of Life than all of the Meat Eating Nations, except for 2 Main Areas. One was their War-like Tendencies and the other was their Obsession with Sex.
As long as we Eat our Biophotons and Eat our Species Specific Diet, we will have Abundance. And as soon as we Stop Eating Biophotons and Stop Eating our Species Specific Diet, we have Scarcity. It’s really that simple.
Life is an Illusion. Restrict your Dietary Choices and we have Abundance. Eat whatever you want and we have Scarcity.
I don’t get the point you are making with the flood. Never in the bible is it stated wrong to eat meat or kill animals. In Genesis 3:21, right after the fall, God makes clothes made of animal skin and clothes Adam and Eve. God loves all humans, but animals are not made our equal, as we were made in the image of God and given dominion over the Earth. God bless! 🙏
@@jonaslantz3453 "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in the sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?" -Jesus
I mean:
"He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck..."
not really ambiguous, is it?
Jesus was a Raw Vegan!
Didn’t he eat fish in one of the stories?
@@Destroyer28911
Chapter 15
Jesus and Vegetarianism
Page 229
“Similar mistranslations have occurred with the use of the word fish. The misunderstanding of the use of this word results in a portrayal of Jesus as eating fish and encouraging the eating and killing of fish by others. In this early church, the word fish was a secret term. The Greek word for fish is I-CH-TH-U-S. It is made up of the first three letters of the words: Jesus Christos Theou Uios Soter. This translates as Jesus Christ Son of God Savior. The fish is also found as a Christian symbol in the catacombs. It is also symbolic of the Piscean Age which was emerging at that time. It is entirely conceivable that the word fish, as used in the New Testament, was used primarily in this deeper mystical way. Since Jesus taught in parables and metaphors, I believe its use in the New Testament was used to communicate this deeper meaning of fish rather than the literal idea of a dead fish that was physically eaten. In this context, the feeding of the fish to the people is a metaphor for the feeding of the higher teachings of the Master to the masses. In a second century book by Irenaeus (120-202 C.E.), it is twice stated that Jesus fed the multitude of 5,000 with bread alone. Others have pointed out that there is a submarine plant called the fish plant that was used as a food in that era, as well as during Babylonian times. These fish plants were dried in the sun, beaten into a mortar and baked into bread-like rolls that were sold in the open market. Perhaps in the translation, the plant portion of the word designated as the fish plant was omitted. It was only in the fourth century that fish was added to the bread offering in the scriptures. This suggests the second century version of the Gospel of Hebrews might be more authentic. In this second century translation, it says in Lection XXIX, verses 7 and 8:
“And when he had taken the six loaves and the seven clusters of grapes, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and the grapes also, and gave then to his disciples to set before them, and they divided them among them all.”
“And they did all eat and were filled. And they took up twelve baskets full of the fragments that were left. And they that did eat of the loaves and of the fruits were about five thousand men, women and children, and He taught them many things.”
In any case, the souls of the 5,000, we can assume, were at least fed with the mystical meaning of fish.” -Gabriel Cousens, M.D., “Conscious Eating” pp. 230-231
@@Destroyer28911 Geeerms😈 and viiiruses👿 is animaIs like cows and chicken and pigs and fish. Plants and fruit and nuts etc, has No germs and No viruses. TH-cam delicious vegan food, like mushroom 🍄🟫 ’steaks’ and tons of healthy foods !!! .. We are herbivores ✅❤️⭕️😬💪🦍🦧🐵🐒👩🏽👱🏼♂️👍
👏👏👏👍✌️✌️
Its hard but dont let him peoppe outreach you. You're only there for aninals to outreach people. #christspiracy
I believe you did great up until near the end of the conversation , you even got him to agree on veganism being the Christian moral obligation !!! which is a Very Big Achievement , but things got pretty funny after that ...
This is a ridiculous take.
Antsy, defensive and self-defeatist?
I got fed-up of the bullshit and being told I was going to hell for merely not believing - whether I did good or not.
You really think I can't dismantle the bullshit that is the ten commandments?
I'm not doing activism to debate religion. I'm doing activism to get people vegan. This man was not happy to end the conversation with agreement and continued to tell me I was going to hell unless I believed - at which point, I was more than happy to be ridicule and poke holes in what he was preaching.
How do YOU reconcile the notion of a God that loves us with his explicit genocidal, discriminatory and oppressive nature?
@@JamesKiteActivism The theory is : he gave us free will , to set up many moral & ethical tests for us in life , to later make the final determination about the level of our purity & loyalty to his teachings , to determine our deservability or not of his Heaven
( perhaps he is cautions from having another future Satan propping up again in his house, i don't know , you have to ask him that your self personally ) , i often wondered much of the same !!! and why is he allowing mankind to get away with so much Evil tyranny / killing and abuse to all kinds of poor animals :((
I know you don't believe he exists , but it is also worth considering that there is too much archeological & ancient scripts literature discoveries that points in the direction of : mankind being given a Very Big Leg Up / Special Favours ( from a much Higher intelligent Power ) in its evolution over other animals , that some of which , even existed millions of years before it , and yet they still have not evolved much intellectually compared to people !!! or physically to deal with or balance off the deadly threats that been coming towards them from the mankind animal specie ...( when they had evolved many good defences against their natural animal predators which prevented their extension via predation , up until mankind showed up on the planet . Cheers / Regards
@@nonavailable4000 with respect, you've addressed none of my response or challenges.
The world view you have outlined is both unsubstantiated and incoherent.
Please refrain from making insulting and assumptive comments, if you're going to change the subject when I take my time to respond to every point you make.
@@JamesKiteActivism Dude , i appreciate what you are doing for the animals , so am not trying to debate you out , am trying to bridge you closer to the mindset of religious hardliners that don't care about "food" animals and you are gonna face a lot of them in your future outreach !!!
Sorry about my rough description of your attitude change towards him later in your debate , so i will amend that description to something nicer .
i can happily reply to a couple or more of opinion points you made about God , substantiation of his existence & what not , but you would think that i was trying to convert you , when am basically on your side about animal rights . Have a great day man
Your description is somewhat problematic. You can't reconcile the positions "(I did my best to be agreeable while keeping the discussion about animals and will always strive to help people align their existing values (religiously affiliated or not) with animal rights)" with "Further, in all honesty, I have huge problems with religious dogma. It gets in the way of truth, showing hostility to science, critical thinking and scepticism - whilst being the source of ignorant, oppressive and bigoted world views to many (- not all!)."
I've been studying modern veganism lately, and find that updating both religious arguments (mankind didn't actually start eating meat until *after the flood, not after the fall*, according the Church Fathers) and philosophical opposition to eating meat (it's nonsensical to apply human rules to animals eating other animals, which dovetails with the idea that man is in fact given some level of dominion over the earth which can be used in a non-destructive fashion) has at least opened my eyes to practical veganism being a real ideal within the Church, while noting that because it is pragmatic, it's still a moral zero in terms of actual salvation (hence I have no real opposition to veganism but I think a lot of the pro-vegan side focuses on virtue signalling, which gives it a "religious air" which is counter-productive.)
Hell is a choice, but the truth is more interesting than such a binary. Would love to discuss Christianity and veganism further. All the best with your channel-- happy to sub and learn.
Hi :D,
I shall be direct.
There's no contradiction in having those positions. One is about my approach and the other is about my personal views on the matter. I care more about whether or not someone is vegan than the problems with religiosity.
Second: "modern veganism" is not a thing. Charitably, I assume you mean in terms of its advocacy. - the vegan philosophy has not shifted.
As much as I have engaged with theocracies , I don't care to engage with them to that level.
My point is simple: the bible tells a story that starts vegan and ends vegan - with plenty of acknowledgement to the moral qualms of exploiting animals.
If God is remotely benevolent and merciful, veganism is a moral imperative.
Your interpretation of "virtue signalling" is just that - an interpretation - with no real foundation. Further, even if 90% of vegan activists were purely virtue signalling, that factor would be a non-sequitur to the ethical rationale on the table. Its "religious air" is entirely attributed to it by those outside of the movement. We deal with facts - not dogma.
Hell is a wholly immoral concept and is not a choice. I cannot 'choose' to just believe in something - I have to be convinced - I cannot control what convinces me.
If belief is a necessity of avoiding hell, it is no choice at all.
We have no evidence to know of "truth" concerning the afterlife claim.
I hope you appreciate my directness and honesty.
Please look into/watch the content I share on my card. Thanks for engaging :)
James.
@@JamesKiteActivism Your candor is indeed appreciated. For full disclosure (if you hadn't noticed) I had a debate on veganism last year which is actually what got me interested in the researching the subject (my understanding of the subject was pretty dated, but to be fair, so was my opponent's), but I imagine more people remember that debate and assume I am anti-vegan (I'm very much not.)
I posit that indeed it's possible there is no change in veganism philosophically, but at the least I don't remember two decades ago vegans arguing that bivalve consumption is ok due to the ever-shifting sentience argument. Certainly dealing with scavenger and open air egg discussions does "muddy up" the waters between a clean "yes" or "no".
(I was more referring to celebrity and "popular" veganism than dedicated activists. I should have been more specific, and I should have been more specific that the "cute animals" argument --which I am not accusing you of-- has led to-- especially today-- many a new carnivore being created.)
On to the question of dogma vs fact, I can only say that having atheist carnivores are a tad crueler than the religious ones, I would think. That said, on the question of hell, I hate to say that my explanation would satisfy the urge to complacency, but the proximate loss is only subjectively horrifying to those aware of what they lose.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate your taking time to respond, I do wish the best for your channel, and if you want to continue this discussion or a related one, I'm more than happy to. Cheers!
In XC, Fr Joseph
@@theorthodoxapologeticschan9378 Veganism is clear and we don't need to have "a line" when we don't need to make one. I don't need bivalve or honey - so why bother debating their sentience if it's grey? - give them the benefit of the doubt.
I don't understand your point on "cute animals" - you seemingly have a muddied understanding of veganism and should look up its definition.
This is a non-sequitur: "I can only say that having atheist carnivores are a tad crueller than the religious ones" to my dogma vs fact point. I was criticising your description of veganism's "religious air". Both atheist carnivores and religious ones are as cruel as each other - they both rely on unsubstantiated dogma.
And this makes no sense: "my explanation would satisfy the urge to complacency, but the proximate loss is only subjectively horrifying to those aware of what they lose" - and, to be blunt, sounds like pretentious waffle.
If you respond, please do clearly and directly with your a-game.
Nuances, semantics and religion are a bore to discuss when I simply want people to stop enslaving, sexually-exploiting and murdering animals.
All the best
@@JamesKiteActivism You didn't have to answer just to answer, but I appreciate it and will get to this shortly
I didn't "just answer". I addressed every point you made.
All the best
9:17 and thr lord prayer in the bible says live life as it is in heaven
Is there a verse to quote?
@@JamesKiteActivism Matthew 6:9-13
Wrong. The verse you are thinking of is, “thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven”.
It’s a prayer for wishing Gods will to happen, not a statement on how we should act.
@@jonaslantz3453 gods will is for to be vegan. Heaven is vegan
Based man. I can eat meat source:God. Aint no other source I need
Great Video!