Just wanted to add a small correction: a Serjeant in Old French, for the medieval period, not only refers to the tenure listed by Wikipedia, but primarly and most generally means a professional foot soldier. Normans spoke French and used the French military system, so calling their foot soldiers "serjeant" is totally accurate. The Normans brought the term in England after the conquest, but its primary meaning has evolved and does not refers to it in modern English.
Also, as sicilians civ in the game refers both to Sicilia Island and south Italy, the technology becomes more meaningful, as South Italy played an important role in transporting europian crusaders towards the Middle East during the First Crusade.
@@armchairsaurus Just to add to that, the attire typically attributed to the Normans were not unique to them and actually also quite common over Europe, so that also isn't an issue
Mayan actually can open a portal to another world and with the cities of gold upon them, they could buy better armor in the alternative universe, a very tough chicken skin
You are actually right, the spanisch needed Special bullets to kill the Mayas because the Mayas could Transform they skin to Carbon cupper, thats why the HP buff Here proof th-cam.com/video/tUbYxbOHwKE/w-d-xo.html
Nice video. But.. a little subjective in places. For example, yeomen. All peasantry had to train with the bow. So it actual took years to develop the skills (shooting a long bow is really hard!). So it actually makes sense, that with training, to would shoot it farther.
Yeah, they started training as children and graduated to larger bows with heavier pills as they grew up. A long bowmen was a profession-level training commitment, and the yeomen system meant that the skill at that level was readily available.
A point about the Vietnamese civ. When they were first introduced, they were portrayed as a SE Asian civ but in reality, Vietnam had stronger cultural ties with East Asia (writing system, vocabulary, Confucianism, & even their Buddhism was imported from China rather than from other SEA countries). Of course, in later patches Vietnam became an East Asian civ due to the backlash from the Viet AOE2 community.
I believe that the Japanese tech being faster to unpack siege is very very very loosely based on Ichiya-jo or Sunomata Castle, which was supposed to have been built overnight. I could see them looking at that, seeing that the castle was a wooden fortress assembled from pre-built parts rather fast in order to act as a sort of siege tower, realising that they couldn't balance that properly in game and then using it for the siege units in general.
They could made a tech with which the Japanese build up castles faster and it only need wood instead of stone, but would got of course way less hitpoints.
To be fair, Sicilians basically are Normans, just with a different name and some Italian, Arabic, and Greek influences. That being said there was enough change between the two that I wouldnt mind a new castle age tech. Oh, and the Japanese one should be switched out for +2 Pierce armor for Hand Cannoneers.
Chatras affecting elephant archer would be much more make sense. It would give them more line of sight or attack range for the bowman on top of elephant and if it was made of metal, it could also give Pierce armor.
Combined with the fact that Vietnamese did put cannons and umbrellas on war elephants, this will makes a lot of senses. Also it should just be called elephant umbrella
If you plan on doing Top 5 most fitting unique techs, i strongly recommend the Hussite reforms. Not only the civ definitely fits and the unit as well, the effect is spot on. IRL hussites had several demands from the church, one of which being the poverty of church. This was also something done in regular ceremonies, with liturgy done somewhere on a hill with a table instead of altar. Also priests were commonly wearing common clothes and living in modesty. In the game, this is reflected perfectly by turning the monk cost and cost of monk upgrades from gold to food. Only thing that would make this even better would be including the other reforms suggested by hussites, like utraquistic liturgy (could be the the thing that gives villagers the sanctity upgrade) or preaching being independent and free from Rome's control (monks being made faster?) Either way pretty spot on tech. Wagenburg tactics is also pretty fitting, but unfortunately it's kind of difficult to rate with how different hussite wagons are in the game and IRL.
Serjeant is derived from Sergeant which is proably what the "AOE Serjeant" refers to: "In medieval European usage, a sergeant was simply any attendant or officer with a protective duty. Any medieval knight or military order of knighthood might have "sergeants-at-arms", meaning servants able to fight if needed. " It makes a lot of sense for those units to partakes in crusades, Crusades where definitly NOT a "knight only" thing.
The civ scicilians refer to the norman kingdom of scicilia. Its accurate. The Most important leaders of the first cruzade were normands from that kingdom
But sicilians and normans arent the same race, are they? Legit question because im confused. Only thing i've heard is that Normans were raiders that came from the north
@@dirkauditore8413 They were, but they settled in southern Italy (Sicily in particular) Sicilians is technically right as a name but Normans would have been better
Great video! I want ti give some input in some points: 5. A reason why I didn't like the choice of the "Sicilians" as a civ is because it has nothing to do with Sicily, but rather, the Italo-Normans, which is a huge shame given that the civ is meant to represent the "rich cultural diversity of medieval Sicily", when in reality its just the Normans with a different name, as can be seen from the tech tree and bonuses. So, I would say that the technology kinda makes sense in effect and civ, but only if the SIcilians are acknowledged as Normans. 1. Yeah, El Dorado (and the whole Maya civ as depicted in the game) is pure fantasy. I'm glad you touched upon this, which is a huge misrepresentation for american civs in general. The only detail i want to point out is that the Maya were never an empire, but rather a collection of city-states in the same fashion as the Greeks. A much better name for El Dorado would have been "Star Wars" (yes, I wrote that correctly). A Star War in Maya culture was glyph used to represent a decisive battle between two distinct polities. Also, given that the Maya style of warfare apparently involved the elites as the primary fighting force rather than commoners, it would kinda fit the Eagle Warrior if you are willing to abstract then as asome sort of mayan nobility.
Interesting inputs. Yeah the whole Sicilians/Normans differentiation is a rabbit hole. In this video I really treated the sicilians as what they are named, thus saying the 1st crusade doesnt fit (albeit crusaders from Sicily actually played quite some role). Some arabic or even hellenistic influences would have been very interesting to see in that civ (but I don't, except for the architecture style).
If El Dorado were the unique tech for the Muisca, then at least you’d be able to say it’s a tech based on a myth the Muisca inspired. Maybe it could provide a permanent Gold trickle or something similar to represent the metalworking of the Muisca. As is, it is simply bizarre.
El Dorado represents the fact that while conflicting with the natives, the Europeans would waste time searching for a thing that didn’t exist. So this “technology” makes your soldiers more effective. But yeah the rest seems absolute BS.
Great video. I would say that the reconquest of sicily was a first crusade before the first crusade and inspired the actual one as Normans played a pivotle role. Sidenote: a friend said that the Lithuanians could have the conversion resistance since they were one of the last to be converted from paganism and the teutons should have the relic bonus since they were on a crusade themselves in the baltic
I *think* the idea for El Dorado was a sort of "Fountain of eternal Youth" thing, which would make sense for more HP. It's still nonsense, but it is slightly less nonsense than it could be.
The Fountain of Youth could also be loosely associated with the cenotes that are found in the area. As far as Eagle Warriors go, I just view them as a gameplay necessity since you need *some* cavalry-like unit even if it’s a human running at ridiculous speeds.
@@erickpoorbaugh6728 yeah. If you make too much of the utterly generic design of every civilization in Age 2, it becomes impossible not to criticize everything.
I am a blacksmith, the bearded axe tech makes theoretiacally sense, since the design of a bearded axe has physically less metal in its body before the actual blade part. Where as a conventional a axe the one you could use for chopping wood is heavier and has more mass. A little less weight can give the thrower more distance in thorwing :) Makes actually sense
Just two minutes into the vid, but - there's ~ 900 hillforts (Piliakalnis) in Lithuania, while according to wiki, there's 1,224 in England. If we compare sizes of both countries, we find out, that Hillforts density is way higher in Lithuania ;) So it was, in fact, given to the correct civ :)
@@armchairsaurus Lithuanian wiki states 900 (lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piliakalnis - "Lietuvoje priskaičiuojama apie 900 piliakalnių"), this article www.piliakalniai.lt/about_hillforts.php says it's about 1000. I'm sure I could find more reliable sources and/or books if you wish, though they would most probably be either in lithuanian or in czech :s
Excellent video. I think that another honorable mention tech is Manipur cavalry(from Burmese). In fact, Manipur people have often fought against Burmese and even when Manipur was a part of Toungoo Empire, Manipur warriors were general lancers. And, of course, arambai was the common weapon of Meitei, not the Burmese, army.
From what you described it seems indeed at least worth an HM. In my initial research I counted Manipur towards what the Burmese in AoE 2 are representing and thus I thought at least the civ is fitting (which already puts it ahead of many other techs). Thanks for the insights
I love how the Frank's throwing Axemen throw double-bearded axes that are almost as big as the man throwing it. You couldn't even pick that up off the ground, let alone throw it.
@@armchairsaurus Most axeheads were small, especially throwing axes, and they were definetely not double bearded. You may have a spike on the other side to make sure it hits with effect, but not a huge 2nd beard. Huge double bearded axe is a fantasy thing or a ceremonial weapon. Nobody could wield them obviously. Also isn't the skin of the Throwing Axeman just that Ragnarök warrior hero in Age of Mythology? That might explain things. 🤣
Some of the sources I've read mentioned 'Serjeants' as having not only royal household duties (as you state) but also accompanied their lords into battle when required. They were below knights but above common levies in the Medieval hierarchy, and their armour and weapons often reflected this. The Sicilians are also supposed to represent the period of the ruling Norman lords in southern Italy and Sicily just before they went onto Crusade under Bohemond of Taranto with his Norman knights. I think people confuse 'Sicilians' too literally with the people, rather than the political entity that they represent during the 11th and 12th centuries. When the Normans lords of Italy invaded the Byzantine Empire for example, they recruited all the local levies from the Italian and Sicilian villages under their rule to form the spear-armed foot soldiers, with the mounted Norman knights being the main power of that force. That being said, a better unique unit for the Sicilians would have been a mounted Norman knight similar to the lance wielding Sicilian hero units (Robert Guiscard etc) found in the scenario editor. My guess is that the devs didn't want another cavalry civ and shaped the Sicilians to be infantry instead, hence the Serjeant unit.
I think they should correct all these historical inaccuracies just by renaming the techs. The effects can stay I the same. For example El Dorado can be renamed to Chuc'ah which was the Mayan practice of taking prisoners of war. It doesn't make a ton of sense why their Eagle Warriors (which they didn't even have) get 40 + HP but at least one historical aspect is corrected and no in-game balance is affected.
Absolutely. Renaming is very simple and would improve many of those. You gave a good example. Another one: Rename "Sicillians" to "Normans" because thats what they are representing
@@armchairsaurus I disagree, the Sicilians represent the Normans, yes, but only the ones that settled Sicily, the Normans migrated and intermixed with local populations too much to be a single civilization
I had no idea how inaccurate Mayans were depicted. I wish they get around to fixing these inaccuracies along with the dlc content that has been coming out. Indians and Chinese also have a lot to say about their inaccurate/incomplete depiction. Great job on the video though 🔥
well spears were one of their main weapons in battle and while it isn't an eagle warrior it could be quite close. also their armor supposedly was quite good, so extra hp makes sense. the name of the tech is stupid, the unit has nothing to do with mayans but is comparable and the effect seems ok. overall not that bad imo.
Really great video! I've thought of some of these myself, the inaccuracies and severe misrepresentations became more clear the more history I've learnt
I really enjoyed this video, love learning new things about history, and I also enjoyed the subtle humor throughout, I hope this is a series and not a one off video. I need to know about all the other technologies now!
I'm more familiar with the "Man of Gold" translation of El Dorado instead of "City of Gold". It makes more sense in that context, although it's still not appropriate for the Mayans.
Great creative content. Keep up the good work buddy. Was watching your other video "AoE2: Ranking Historical Sense in Unique Techs - Top 5" and ended up here. Even liked this video more.
I don't know if you're still reading these comments, but if I had to guess ANYTHING, it's that one of the developers may've been a fan of the early 80s animated series "The Mysterious Cities of Gold". Which - and spoilers for a 40 year old TV show - wound up having a city of gold somewhere vaguely between where the Aztec and Maya were. That or they really just needed an excuse name for the technology. I blame "The Mysterious Cities of Gold" for both getting me into history and subsequently into Age of Empires, by the way. :)
The thing with Yeoman in medieval England is it was mostly in reference to a class of people who were non-noble landowners. These people were not only more readily available to be raised into armies but also often trained much more intensively than serfs, specifically with longbows. So it makes more sense that the class and system of acquiring better trained and readily available archers adds attack value.
As Vietnamese, I can say we use "umbrella" on elephants for sheltering against the sun and the rain. In battle, we'd rather use flamethrower or mount some sorts of hand cannon on it xD
Nice vid! I'm actually from Yucatán & I agree with you, we don't understand why "el dorado" is an mayan tech on aoe2, and it's true, there were no eagle warriors here but a lot of jaguar warriors, one last thing, the Mayan civilization didn't disappear completely, when the Spanish come were a lot of little cities with caciques, they try to conquistate them but they never accomplished that, that's why there is authentical Mayan people all around the peninsula today, if wanna know more about this, can read about the founding of Mérida with Gonzalo Guerrero (an Spanish who decided to marry a Mayan women) & Francisco de Montejo (the whole family) :)
Yep, thats exactly the reason why I introduced the Maya as "an ethnicity still around today". A friend just made a trip to Calakmul and sent me a video. It is almos unimabinably impressive that there was a major city where now is only jungle
Game designers: The game's settings are ready but we still have to come up with a unique technology for the Mayans and the deadline is tomorrow. Any ideas anybody? -Designer: I just watched yesterday a new movie I rented on VHS it was called El Dorado. That sounds like a cool name doesn't it? -Lead designers: SOLD!
Are you sure the Japanese kataparuto is derived from the english word catapult? It seems historically more likely that it came from the admittedly similar (or even same) word for catapult 'katapult' (even uses a K like the japanese words). I say more likely because during the isolationist Edo period of Japan, the Dutch were the only foreigners allowed to trade with Japan at the trading post of Dejima. It is through this trading post that Japanese learned about European sciences in Japan (pretty sure they named these sciences 'Dutch studies' for this reason, but I might be wrong or over simplifying). Just a small suggestion/correction, cool video!
Me saying that it came from the english word is ofc a simplification. The word family "catapult" exists in basically every european language, so kataparuto is derived from any of those (but most likely the first time Japanese people hear the word catapult was from a dutch or portuguese)
Good video sir. Yeomen (Mandatory archery training of the kingdoms commoners/citizenry) would improve their archer abilities, thus the Yeomen effect is fitting, no need for increased training rate. Having visited Lithuania myself, I can say their topography was brilliantly laid out to construct good defensible hillforts. Thus I love this tech for them. What I would however change for Lithuanians is: African ,Mezzo, Civs that do not gain access to Good cavalry,nor gunpowder,nor elephants and a weak navy should instead receive strong bonuses for their infantry, villagers and trash. African and mezzo civs should only have canoe navies. Able to fire arrows ,fast ,agile and only using 0.5 pop space but they don't have access to Gally line, nor cannon. Gallons. All canoes can carry/transport 3-5 units and are trained twice as fast as regular ships. Don’t have access to fire ships but get fire canoes that shoot fat covered fire arrows (Fat burns intensely hot). Tech in dock:Fat covered fire arrows - +3 attack to canoes. Canoes transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour,attack and range. Canoe upgrades are half the cost of regular ship upgrades and come in immediately when you research them. Give the imperial Skirmisher Team bonus (Vietnamese) to a Sub Sahara African civ (Shona people). Sub Sahara African civs get African huts as Dark age houses. (Already in game.) Saracen + Berber+Turks + Kurds dark age houses should be Berber tents (Already in game.) Lithuanians ‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC. And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs. In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. . Dravidians I would love to see the Dravidian ‘’Skirmishers attack 25% faster’’ bonus go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC Tribes of the Tropics DLC Taíno/Arawak peoples / Carib kingdom/Tupi Zaputechs Mapuches/Tarascans. Toltecs Polynesians/ Tuʻi Tonga Empire. In turn the Dravidian Urumi gains the ability to build/repair docks and faster firing BBC/hand cannoneers.
I would absolutely love to see that, but some of this stuffcould mess with the balance of the game very badly. Sometimes is better to accept some dumb things for the sake of gameplay (Afro/meso civs would absolutely be unplayable against decently strong naval civs for example, or completely snowball in early game) Sign me up for aestethical differences tho!
Fantastic! Could you do one on aoe1?I think it would be interesting because it seems to me that the logical and historical mistakes are even more preposterous there, like almost everyone (including Minoan) have camels, Sumeria and Egypt can research chain mail armour, pre-assyrian civs have mounted units, etc.
Of note with regards to the term "kataparuto", while certainly a loan word from English, "発石木 " was a term used for catapults of the Onin war, which would in effect be man-powered mangonels, however the AoE2 technology is rather nonsensical here as there wasn't really a proper trebuchet analog in Japan. Additionally, the term bathtub does exist in Japanese, as bathing has been a popular practice in Japan well before any European contact, with the terms "浴槽" and "湯船", the latter even having an etymological root in how a service arose to escape the crowded public bathhouses, where people would go and seek the services of "bath ships" off the shore of cities during the Edo period.
With the "bathtub" (which nowadays is commonly usded) comparison I wanted to illustrate that Kataparuto is a loan word from english. I didnt want to allude that Japanese doesnt have an endemic word it. I didnt know that about the Onin war. How do you write 発石木 in alphabet? Could be a better name for the tech then. And a third note: You wrote that 発石木 were "man-powered mangonels". Well, doesn't that make it a trebuchet then? The terms for siege equipment literature often vary and overlap in literature but the common definition is that a mangonel is a kind of trebuchet. The difference between a mangonel (which were more common in Asia) and a european trebuchet is that the mangonel is powered by man pulling the lever, whereas the european trebuchet is loosened by a counterweight
@@armchairsaurus "Hatsushiki" in romaji, functionally these weapons were smaller and man-powered, but more importantly, their doctrinal use appears to have been primarily to deal with personnel upon battlements rather than the destruction of fortifications themselves. Having said that, with consideration for the aesthetic of Japan in AoE2, notably the samurai appearing more late-Muromachi or Sengoku period in style, it might perhaps be more fitting to introduce a gunpowder unique tech instead, as Japan was one of the largest procurers and producers of arquebuses in Asia at the time, and even developed a notable part of their military doctrine around the weapon, as seen at Nagashino or during the Imjin war. There was even a trend in the period of "tameshi gusoku" or bullet tested armor, where if someone was wealthy enough, they'd commission armor which would then have some bullets test fired into it to prove it could stop bullets, with some surviving specimens of such still today. The dents appear quite large, so I'd assume maybe possibly up to100-monme (40mm) bullets were used for testing potentially.
@@armchairsaurus half Japanese so I grew up with a few books and other resources related to medieval Japan, definitely not my background to be clear, but it's always been a topic of interest to me. I'm sure you can find some similar resources online so long as one looks in the right area. '江戸の砲術 －砲術書から見たその歴史' is a book I've had my eye on for a while, although it's not the cheapest thing in the world.
“Huns don’t need to build houses.” Y’know, I’d be totally down if semi-nomadic or steppe civs like the Huns, Mongols, Tatars, and Cumans all had single or four tile yurts or tents that unpacked and packed and moved like trebuchets. And don’t forget, arrow wounds can be reduced by up to 50% if you figure out how to weave cloth with a loom!
Apparently, the original story of El Dorado was about a ritual where the heir to a tribe would be covered in gold for a ceremony, and then proceed to offer valuables to a deity. If we take the liberty to consider that story to be credible enough to make it into AoE2, it could be a technology for the Inca and related to monks, faith, or the fervor or fortitude of warriors
The golden man was a true ritual, but the people who performed it didn't find gold that much valuable and it was used more because it was shiny. People even drained the lake where it happened trying to recover the gold, but when they did it, the soil became so hard that the whole process costed more than the value of the gold recovered. And now the lake is protected, so you can't try again.
I think yeoman can be construed as having the correct effect. They're professional footsoldiers contrary to the majority of medieval infantry that was composed of temporary levies, they were armed with some of the best bows from the time period (so good they were still in use in the Elizabethan era). It makes sense that it would make them more performant.
I'd love to see a complete historical accuracy mod. Where all of the techs do what they actually did IRL and the techs apply to the correct civs. Also I'd like to the see the unit models get redesigned to actually look how they're supposed to for each civ. That would add a lot more flavor to the civs I think.
I noticed they already mentioned the corrections about the French Serjeant but I also gotta mention another one. There were indeed Japanese catapults, actually if you google "Japanese catapult" the image appears right away. Also look at Hōseki (抛石), Tōsekiki (投石機), Hatsuishiki (発石木) or Hihō (飛砲) all of these seem to be historical names for Japanese catapults before contact with europeans. You can also google "Shogun 2 Total War Catapult"
Yep some other people also pointed that out. Thats sth I didnt knew. Its actually a missed opportunity on the developers side. If the tech was called Hoseki instead of Kataparuto it would make much more sense.
About Yeomen tech, learning how to wield a bow from childhood ought to make them better at archery in their adult years. It is also found that such individuals had an asymmetrical bone structure, which might make them severely disabled in their older years [that is if they make it that far in life.....], but it would probably make it more natural for them to shoot arrows farther. The feudal and castle age ranges increase is justified this way, making that last +1 range very expensive for them to get that sweet 6+6 range. Towers should get both range and attack, though it would be similar to the Korean unique tech, so they probably refrained from that.
Torsion design was actually created for ballista during Alexander's siege of Cyprus since nothing could otherwise get through the defenses. It wasn't just for catapults. And saying China invented rocketry is questionable at best, since tube based propulsion was found elsewhere earlier.
Yeoman increasing range and attack does make sense in my opinion. Its not hard to muster archers, but it is hard to muster good longbowmen. So we could say this tech signifies how training was emphasized.
I don't think it is impossible to switch some of these techs around, such as how Boiling Oil was replaced with Kamandaran for Persians since there was little to no evidence of anyone using hot oil to defend their buildings, but you approach the argument of balance versus historical accuracy at that point.
Im not promoting that the effects should be changed. The way the game is balanced is totally fine right now. But sometimes just a simple name change could improve the flavour
I think Ironclad should be a dishonorable mention. - siege, but should be ships - effect of giving armor is ok, I think shells wouldn't be melee damage though - wrong civ, wrong time
I had Ironclad very high on the list long time until I realized that the word "Ironclad" must not refer to the ship Ironclad but to the adjectavie ironclad, which means coated with metal plates. If you interpret the name that way it still isnt the greatest tech but suddenly makes much more sense
Great video man! I like the idea. Wish there will be more like this. What do you think of my reskilled Scots (because Celts in aoe2 are so wrong in there depicture). I am sure that you will say something about the unique technologies that I picked. The Scots Infantry and trash units I know that the Celts are in the game and they represent the Scots. But they are badly designed and we can’t give the same tech tree to both the Irish and the Welsh. Just think about the longbow. Welsh had it but Irish did not. The flag would be the kingly banner of Scotland. The red lion on a golden bottom. Bonus - Trash units move 10% faster => The Scots were experts at guerilla warfare. This bonus shows that. - Lumberjacks work 15% faster - Beginwith 2 more sheep (Scotland is famous for its sheep) - Every ennemy unit killed brings 5% of its food cost to the Scottish player. => Raids were common in Scotland even in the modern era. That’s a way to show this phenomenon. Team bonus - Trash units train 15% faster Unique unit Gallowglass: heavy infantry 90F 25G - Castle age: HP: 50 Attack: 12 Armor 2/2 Speed 1.00 Rate of fire 2.0 - Imperial age: Elite 1000F 600G HP 65 Attack 16 Armor 3/3 Speed 1.00 Rate of fire 2.0 An heavy infantry made to charge. Well equipped and powerful, they take many risks due to their war mindset. That’s why they have less hp than a champion. Unique technologies - Castle age => Shiltron 350F 350G Pikemen line gains +1 range and +1/+1 armor. => Scotland was famous for its pikemen and their shiltron formation. That’s why they must be above average. - Imperial age => Hobelar 350F 400G Light cavalry gains +2/2 armor => The heavy Scottish horsemen were very few but the Scots had a pretty good light cavalry. Archery range 1) Bowman => crossbowman 2) Skirmisher => Elite skirmisher No HA (we are in western Europe not in the steppes), no HC nor the technologies of the building. Barrack 1) Militia => Men at arms => Longswordsmen => 2 handed swordsmen => Champion 2) Spearman => Pikeman => Halberdier - Squires - Supplies Stable 1) Scout => Light cavalry => Hussar 2) Knight => Cavalier - Blood lines - Husbandry The Scots had a good light cavalry but not a great heavy one. That’s why they must not have the paladins. Siege workshop 1) Ram => Capped ram => Siege ram 2) Mangonnel => Onager 3) Scorpion 4) Siege tower Scotland was not famous for its siege weapons. I don’t know where the creators of the game took this idea. Blacksmith 1) forging => iron casting => blast furnace 2) scale mail armor => chain mail armor => plate mail armor 3) scale barding armor => chain barding armor 4) fletching => bodkin arrow => bracer 5) padded archer armor => leather archer armor => ring archer armor The range units of Scotland were not as bas as they are in the current game. They were not on the same level as the British or Welsh ones but they were decent at least. That’s why I give them bracer and the last armor for their skirmishers but without thumbring nor arbalester Dock 1) fishing ship 2) transport ship 3) trade cog 4) fire ship 5) demolition ship => heavy demolition ship 6) galley => war galley => galion 7) canon galion - guillnets - careening => dry docks Scotland was not famous for its navy. University - masonery => architecture - fortified walls - balistic - guard tower => keep - murder holes - treademill crane - chemistry - arrowslits Castle - hoardings - sappers - conscription Monastery - redemption - atonement - herbal medicine - heresy - sanctity - fervor - faith - illumination - block printing - theocracy Mining camp - gold mining => gold shaft mining - stone mining => stone shaft mining Lumber camp - double bit axe => bow saw Mill - horse collar => heavy plow No guilds
Hi Seleukos, I hope you dont hold it against me that I found it quite amusing that you posed an entire Civ concept including Tech tree (!) as a comment😂 great dedication. Content wise (not a complete review, just some things that jump to my eye) in no particular order: -I think the civ is actually quite well balanced (except the unique techs, we get to that later) which already is a proud feat -They would also have their own very aggressive identity. Seems very flavourful! -If their trash is 10% faster you cant give them husbandry. Their hussars would be cobra cars -why is their monastery so stacked? Any explanation? and of course the unique techs: Shiltron: great idea but +1 range on the already super fast halb line seems to me quite overpowered. Would need to be tested. But 1 range is mighty! Historically and logically I think this tech makes very much sense with one detail: Why also +1 pierce armor? How does a tight formation protect against projectiles? As I have perceived it, tight formation of units without shields are very vulnerable to arrowfire (the arrows always hit somebody) Hobelar: The flavour is nice and from a very quick research it seems fitting:) But it is massively overpowered and underpriced. Believe me, you can't have hussars in the game with 8(!) pierce armor, extra movement speed (faster than cumans) and faster creation time. This tech needs a nerf;) Btw you would love the TH-camr Mantis AoE - Civ concepts. Tell him I brought you there;)
@@armchairsaurus Haha don't worry! I did that for a chat so I just copied what I did. - I would say that on arabia they would be ok. In the late game they would be great, in the middle they would be in the middle of the pack. On water maps they would be bottom tier. On arena they would be good in defense but on the offensive it would be hard for them. On hybrid maps they would be also in the middle on the pack. - So I should change by 1) no husbandry nor squires but +15% 2) husbandry and squire but only +5% 3) just change that for the hussar - It seems that the monasteries took a great place in medieval Scotland Unique techs: - I agree with the defense against arrows. In Falkirk, Scots lost due to their weakness to arrows (in addition with a cavalry charge). But I thought that I had to give more because if I give them let's say only +1 (or even +2) against mêlée weapons it would be Teutons 2.0. So I gave them +1/+1. Maybe I could cancel the +1 against arrows but if I also cancel the +1 range they would be weaker Teutons pikemen. - I see but you missed a point. Scots don't have the last armor for horsemen. Their hussars would be a bit faster and with +1 mêlée armor than the Hun hussar for example. For the price I could raise it, of course. Thanks for the link to Mantis.
@@seleukosnikator7347 Indeed I missed the missing armor! Sorry, that makes the tech very reasonable. And about Shiltron. I believe that +1 range alone is already very mighty on a unit that is so easy to mass. The Kamayuk by itself looses clearly against a champ but massed they wreck them. So +1 range I think is big. But ofc would need to be tested
@@armchairsaurus I see what you mean. I did that because they would not have really strong gold units options in the late game. That's why I would make their trash units stronger.
@@seleukosnikator7347 Yeah and I think overall the civ seems really balanced! And that is the main weakness with most civ concepts I read about. Many great ideas but often the civs seem unbalanced.
Technically Sicilians are a weird representation of the Normans, the campaign starts in Normandy and they indeed use Norman warriors for this reason. After the DLC Norman representations throughout the campaigns use the Sicilians civ. That said First Crusade never made much sense to me and is a really strange pick for Norman Iraly. I guess they just wanted a crusader tech somewhere in the game and they participated I guess so they ran with it? idk. It's really dumb.
Nice vid! It would be fun if you did your best to come up with a more suiting technology name. I wouldn’t mind if they reworked many of these no sense technology names.
Just wanna say you got me good with the medieval artwork depicting a battle elephant equipped with a chatra AND a Yoyo. Also congrats on 16k+ views with your first video! Very nice :) Looking forward to more.
Please, do more of these historical criticism videos! With regards to Chatras, I am used to seeing them on depictions of ancient Indian chariot archers. Supposedly, they were there to provide shade from the hot Indian sun on the battlefield. I have no idea of they actually were on the chariots, and I’m not used to seeing them on war elephants.
In Urdu the word for umbrella is "Chathri" and in Punjabi "Chatha". Never once did it cross my mind that Chatras could be the Sanskrit term for umbrella.
You're absolutely right about Chatras in Vietnamese civ. How the hell an umbrella can give Elephants +100 HP? Yes, we did have umbrella on elephants but it's only for celebration of the Emperor. It's absolutely wrong. If you want to make tanky Elephants, have good breeds (in history the capital of Thăng Long, Hanoi has 2000 Elephants) or wear armour on them. And, in history, we put cannons on Elephants instead of Umbrellas. So...hell no
It existed in the Forgotten empires but was later replaced by the current Inca campaign. Here if u want to read more: ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/El_Dorado_(campaign)
Hey great video. I just subscribed and I'm looking forward for more videos like this. When I was a kid I enjoyed a lot playing AoE II and learning a little bit of history by doing the campaigns and reading civilizations tech tree. Now I would want to know, for example, who actually had the better knights (when I was a kid, in the game, it was the French knight line, but now the game has new civs and units and it's not anymore)
Thanks for the subscribe! Who has the better knights depends a lot against what they are matched up. In case of Archers for example it would be the Sicilians. Hauberk is a hell of a tech (and on top of that historically very accurate *hint hint*)
@@shafoz Yes. The Franks (and more so actually their successor nation, the French Kingdom) very much relied on heavy impact cavalry. Whereas the spanish for example where primarily using light cavalry called Jinete (Genitour in the game given to the Berbers). Of course this could also have been represented by giving Frankish knights more armor, but more HP is ofc viable too
Nice videos! I would like to mention any creative decision is taken by the director / creative team and not by the developers. I am saying this in regards for KATAPARUTO.
Hi, Vietnamese here, only Royal elephant has umbrella cuz our royal may mounted the beast back in the day and they cant stand the tropical sun. The war elephant dont have umbrella. If u curious how it look like just google: annam hue elephant, Annam is VietNam under French rule.
A much better name for El Dorado would've been The Fountain of Youth. Still mythological, but it's in the right general area and works with the hp bonus.
I did like your video but I gotta mention another tiny corrections, about the Mayans. 600-900AD was only the fall of the Mayan states but Mayan archaeology is divided in 3 periods. Pre-classic Mayans 1000BC - 250AD Classic Mayans 250AD - 900AD Post-classic Mayans 900AD - 1521 (arrival of the Spanish) Actually they were the first enemy face by Hernán Cortés in 1519 After that Mayans are divided according to Mexican history as: Colonial Mayans 1521 - 1821 (Mayans were finally conquered in the late 18th century) Post-colonial Mayans 1821 - Present day (Google the "Caste War of Yucatan") I still agree 100% with you about "El Dorado" technology.
Yes I'm aware. Thats why I said the maya as represented in the game seem to refer to the Mayan empire/cities of the time around 600-900AD. I know that Mayans predated that time. My first sentence about Mayans was "Mayans are an ethnicity still around today" I believe. But thanks for the insights
@@armchairsaurus No no, I got your point man, I mean that AoE2 Mayans don't just represent 600-900 AD. What I meant is that they represent All of Classic and Post classic Mayans. But don't mind it it is really a nitpick, I think you're spot on with "El Dorado".
I think another poorly named tech is Manipur Cavalry for Burmese. It gives a bonus to cavalry which is correct at least, but the effect is useless and the civ is completely incorrect as they were not used by the Burmese, but rather against the Burmese
Just wanted to add a small correction: a Serjeant in Old French, for the medieval period, not only refers to the tenure listed by Wikipedia, but primarly and most generally means a professional foot soldier. Normans spoke French and used the French military system, so calling their foot soldiers "serjeant" is totally accurate. The Normans brought the term in England after the conquest, but its primary meaning has evolved and does not refers to it in modern English.
Thanks for the correction - learned something new. Your illustration of a Norman Knight will be used in the top5 video coming soon
@@armchairsaurus keep it up, I learned a ton of things in there myself it's a great format!
Also, as sicilians civ in the game refers both to Sicilia Island and south Italy, the technology becomes more meaningful, as South Italy played an important role in transporting europian crusaders towards the Middle East during the First Crusade.
@@armchairsaurus Just to add to that, the attire typically attributed to the Normans were not unique to them and actually also quite common over Europe, so that also isn't an issue
jeh kinda figures.. a sergeant(seems like a derivative) is a rank.. something close to a officer
Mayan actually can open a portal to another world and with the cities of gold upon them, they could buy better armor in the alternative universe, a very tough chicken skin
Your take is actually very consistent with their ressources lasting longer lol
You are actually right, the spanisch needed Special bullets to kill the Mayas because the Mayas could Transform they skin to Carbon cupper, thats why the HP buff
Here proof
th-cam.com/video/tUbYxbOHwKE/w-d-xo.html
@@paulviguie2871 it's ironic that Mayan resources last longer when the Mayan civilization fell down over an overconsumption of resources. XD
Nice video. But.. a little subjective in places. For example, yeomen. All peasantry had to train with the bow. So it actual took years to develop the skills (shooting a long bow is really hard!). So it actually makes sense, that with training, to would shoot it farther.
Yeah, they started training as children and graduated to larger bows with heavier pills as they grew up. A long bowmen was a profession-level training commitment, and the yeomen system meant that the skill at that level was readily available.
A point about the Vietnamese civ. When they were first introduced, they were portrayed as a SE Asian civ but in reality, Vietnam had stronger cultural ties with East Asia (writing system, vocabulary, Confucianism, & even their Buddhism was imported from China rather than from other SEA countries). Of course, in later patches Vietnam became an East Asian civ due to the backlash from the Viet AOE2 community.
I believe that the Japanese tech being faster to unpack siege is very very very loosely based on Ichiya-jo or Sunomata Castle, which was supposed to have been built overnight. I could see them looking at that, seeing that the castle was a wooden fortress assembled from pre-built parts rather fast in order to act as a sort of siege tower, realising that they couldn't balance that properly in game and then using it for the siege units in general.
I could see perhaps "karakuri" meaning _mechanism_ or _trick_ to replace the awful _kataparuto._
They could made a tech with which the Japanese build up castles faster and it only need wood instead of stone, but would got of course way less hitpoints.
Absolutely amazing vid. I wish you did the whole list for 39 civs I woulda watched the whole thing even if 1 hour long
To be fair, Sicilians basically are Normans, just with a different name and some Italian, Arabic, and Greek influences. That being said there was enough change between the two that I wouldnt mind a new castle age tech. Oh, and the Japanese one should be switched out for +2 Pierce armor for Hand Cannoneers.
But keep the name Kataparuto, we cant make it plausible all of a sudden
And call it Ashigaru.
The Normans were the warrior elites that conquered the inhabited territories of the Mezzogiorno, not the conquered inhabitants themselves.
Are you the same guy that shows up in t90s chats??
@@callmemrduck7142 woman, but yes.
Chatras affecting elephant archer would be much more make sense. It would give them more line of sight or attack range for the bowman on top of elephant and if it was made of metal, it could also give Pierce armor.
Combined with the fact that Vietnamese did put cannons and umbrellas on war elephants, this will makes a lot of senses.
Also it should just be called elephant umbrella
I mean, it's still an Indian/Taiwanese ceremonial umbrella. Keep it away from the battlefield
If you plan on doing Top 5 most fitting unique techs, i strongly recommend the Hussite reforms. Not only the civ definitely fits and the unit as well, the effect is spot on. IRL hussites had several demands from the church, one of which being the poverty of church. This was also something done in regular ceremonies, with liturgy done somewhere on a hill with a table instead of altar. Also priests were commonly wearing common clothes and living in modesty.
In the game, this is reflected perfectly by turning the monk cost and cost of monk upgrades from gold to food. Only thing that would make this even better would be including the other reforms suggested by hussites, like utraquistic liturgy (could be the the thing that gives villagers the sanctity upgrade) or preaching being independent and free from Rome's control (monks being made faster?)
Either way pretty spot on tech. Wagenburg tactics is also pretty fitting, but unfortunately it's kind of difficult to rate with how different hussite wagons are in the game and IRL.
"Their historical advisor must have been on vacation" - love it 🤣
Specifically, not on vacation in Japan xD
Serjeant is derived from Sergeant which is proably what the "AOE Serjeant" refers to: "In medieval European usage, a sergeant was simply any attendant or
officer with a protective duty. Any medieval knight or military order of knighthood might have "sergeants-at-arms", meaning servants able to fight if needed. "
It makes a lot of sense for those units to partakes in crusades, Crusades where definitly NOT a "knight only" thing.
The civ scicilians refer to the norman kingdom of scicilia. Its accurate. The Most important leaders of the first cruzade were normands from that kingdom
But sicilians and normans arent the same race, are they? Legit question because im confused. Only thing i've heard is that Normans were raiders that came from the north
@@dirkauditore8413 They were, but they settled in southern Italy (Sicily in particular)
Sicilians is technically right as a name but Normans would have been better
Great video! I want ti give some input in some points:
5. A reason why I didn't like the choice of the "Sicilians" as a civ is because it has nothing to do with Sicily, but rather, the Italo-Normans, which is a huge shame given that the civ is meant to represent the "rich cultural diversity of medieval Sicily", when in reality its just the Normans with a different name, as can be seen from the tech tree and bonuses. So, I would say that the technology kinda makes sense in effect and civ, but only if the SIcilians are acknowledged as Normans.
1. Yeah, El Dorado (and the whole Maya civ as depicted in the game) is pure fantasy. I'm glad you touched upon this, which is a huge misrepresentation for american civs in general. The only detail i want to point out is that the Maya were never an empire, but rather a collection of city-states in the same fashion as the Greeks. A much better name for El Dorado would have been "Star Wars" (yes, I wrote that correctly). A Star War in Maya culture was glyph used to represent a decisive battle between two distinct polities. Also, given that the Maya style of warfare apparently involved the elites as the primary fighting force rather than commoners, it would kinda fit the Eagle Warrior if you are willing to abstract then as asome sort of mayan nobility.
Interesting inputs. Yeah the whole Sicilians/Normans differentiation is a rabbit hole. In this video I really treated the sicilians as what they are named, thus saying the 1st crusade doesnt fit (albeit crusaders from Sicily actually played quite some role). Some arabic or even hellenistic influences would have been very interesting to see in that civ (but I don't, except for the architecture style).
Imagine they add the "Star Wars" tech but it gives them a chance to shoot down incoming projectiles?
It would still be more accurate than "El Dorado."
If El Dorado were the unique tech for the Muisca, then at least you’d be able to say it’s a tech based on a myth the Muisca inspired. Maybe it could provide a permanent Gold trickle or something similar to represent the metalworking of the Muisca. As is, it is simply bizarre.
I genuinely burst out laughing at the umbrella part. Great vid! 👍
Don't forget about those yoyo-wielding elephants.
El Dorado represents the fact that while conflicting with the natives, the Europeans would waste time searching for a thing that didn’t exist. So this “technology” makes your soldiers more effective.
But yeah the rest seems absolute BS.
Great video. I would say that the reconquest of sicily was a first crusade before the first crusade and inspired the actual one as Normans played a pivotle role.
Sidenote: a friend said that the Lithuanians could have the conversion resistance since they were one of the last to be converted from paganism and the teutons should have the relic bonus since they were on a crusade themselves in the baltic
I *think* the idea for El Dorado was a sort of "Fountain of eternal Youth" thing, which would make sense for more HP. It's still nonsense, but it is slightly less nonsense than it could be.
That is the best hypothesis I heard about this so far. I didnt think about that. Good point. That would be a bit less nonsense
The Fountain of Youth could also be loosely associated with the cenotes that are found in the area.
As far as Eagle Warriors go, I just view them as a gameplay necessity since you need *some* cavalry-like unit even if it’s a human running at ridiculous speeds.
@@erickpoorbaugh6728 yeah. If you make too much of the utterly generic design of every civilization in Age 2, it becomes impossible not to criticize everything.
I am a blacksmith, the bearded axe tech makes theoretiacally sense,
since the design of a bearded axe has physically less metal in its body before the actual blade part.
Where as a conventional a axe the one you could use for chopping wood is heavier and has more mass.
A little less weight can give the thrower more distance in thorwing :)
Makes actually sense
I agree. Thats why Bearded axe is not in the bottom 5
Just two minutes into the vid, but - there's ~ 900 hillforts (Piliakalnis) in Lithuania, while according to wiki, there's 1,224 in England. If we compare sizes of both countries, we find out, that Hillforts density is way higher in Lithuania ;) So it was, in fact, given to the correct civ :)
Sorry for the misrepresentation then. Where is the 900 number from?
@@armchairsaurus Lithuanian wiki states 900 (lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piliakalnis - "Lietuvoje priskaičiuojama apie 900 piliakalnių"), this article www.piliakalniai.lt/about_hillforts.php says it's about 1000. I'm sure I could find more reliable sources and/or books if you wish, though they would most probably be either in lithuanian or in czech :s
@@Gr33nCl0n Then Hill forts are much more prominent in Lithuania than it seemed to me. Sorry for the oversight!
El dorado wouldn’t be a terrible technology for the Incas because they were known to have extraordinary amounts of gold
Excellent video. I think that another honorable mention tech is Manipur cavalry(from Burmese). In fact, Manipur people have often fought against Burmese and even when Manipur was a part of Toungoo Empire, Manipur warriors were general lancers. And, of course, arambai was the common weapon of Meitei, not the Burmese, army.
From what you described it seems indeed at least worth an HM. In my initial research I counted Manipur towards what the Burmese in AoE 2 are representing and thus I thought at least the civ is fitting (which already puts it ahead of many other techs). Thanks for the insights
Yeah, you can still see some performances by some folks living in Manipur today. Their accuracy makes total sense lol.
What even worse is that it does not effect arambai anymore
Manipur is also a state in India very close to Burma
great video man, really insightfull. Keep up the good work my man
I love how the Frank's throwing Axemen throw double-bearded axes that are almost as big as the man throwing it. You couldn't even pick that up off the ground, let alone throw it.
And Franciscas (the axe that gave Franks their tribal name) were actually quite a small kind of axe
@@armchairsaurus Most axeheads were small, especially throwing axes, and they were definetely not double bearded. You may have a spike on the other side to make sure it hits with effect, but not a huge 2nd beard. Huge double bearded axe is a fantasy thing or a ceremonial weapon. Nobody could wield them obviously. Also isn't the skin of the Throwing Axeman just that Ragnarök warrior hero in Age of Mythology? That might explain things. 🤣
@@kooroshrostami27 omg the Ragnarok model comparison is so true🤯
Amazing work! May be your first video, but the way you provided information and disassembled the nonsense systematically was on-point. Keep it up!
The detail on that ancient elephant art is incredible
Some of the sources I've read mentioned 'Serjeants' as having not only royal household duties (as you state) but also accompanied their lords into battle when required. They were below knights but above common levies in the Medieval hierarchy, and their armour and weapons often reflected this. The Sicilians are also supposed to represent the period of the ruling Norman lords in southern Italy and Sicily just before they went onto Crusade under Bohemond of Taranto with his Norman knights. I think people confuse 'Sicilians' too literally with the people, rather than the political entity that they represent during the 11th and 12th centuries. When the Normans lords of Italy invaded the Byzantine Empire for example, they recruited all the local levies from the Italian and Sicilian villages under their rule to form the spear-armed foot soldiers, with the mounted Norman knights being the main power of that force. That being said, a better unique unit for the Sicilians would have been a mounted Norman knight similar to the lance wielding Sicilian hero units (Robert Guiscard etc) found in the scenario editor. My guess is that the devs didn't want another cavalry civ and shaped the Sicilians to be infantry instead, hence the Serjeant unit.
I think they should correct all these historical inaccuracies just by renaming the techs. The effects can stay I the same. For example El Dorado can be renamed to Chuc'ah which was the Mayan practice of taking prisoners of war. It doesn't make a ton of sense why their Eagle Warriors (which they didn't even have) get 40 + HP but at least one historical aspect is corrected and no in-game balance is affected.
Absolutely. Renaming is very simple and would improve many of those. You gave a good example. Another one: Rename "Sicillians" to "Normans" because thats what they are representing
@@armchairsaurus I disagree, the Sicilians represent the Normans, yes, but only the ones that settled Sicily, the Normans migrated and intermixed with local populations too much to be a single civilization
@@julianxamo7835 Well the same can be said about the civilization Chinese:)
I had no idea how inaccurate Mayans were depicted. I wish they get around to fixing these inaccuracies along with the dlc content that has been coming out. Indians and Chinese also have a lot to say about their inaccurate/incomplete depiction.
Great job on the video though 🔥
For example Chinese having no cannons
well spears were one of their main weapons in battle and while it isn't an eagle warrior it could be quite close. also their armor supposedly was quite good, so extra hp makes sense. the name of the tech is stupid, the unit has nothing to do with mayans but is comparable and the effect seems ok. overall not that bad imo.
Seriousness, humor and examples. What else do we need?
Really great video! I've thought of some of these myself, the inaccuracies and severe misrepresentations became more clear the more history I've learnt
Awesome for be your first video, hope see more of you soon
Seeing "Kataparuto" on the third place I knew it is going to be a very interesting video.
You did a really good job with this video! I was surprised when you said is your first video you ever made. Congrats! And keep going with this!
Finally someone reviewing this! Keep it coming.
that santa claus tech... that was a good one dude, you made me smile
I really enjoyed this video, love learning new things about history, and I also enjoyed the subtle humor throughout, I hope this is a series and not a one off video. I need to know about all the other technologies now!
working on the top 5 currently. this is more work than I thought haha
I'm more familiar with the "Man of Gold" translation of El Dorado instead of "City of Gold". It makes more sense in that context, although it's still not appropriate for the Mayans.
Great creative content. Keep up the good work buddy. Was watching your other video "AoE2: Ranking Historical Sense in Unique Techs - Top 5" and ended up here. Even liked this video more.
I don't know if you're still reading these comments, but if I had to guess ANYTHING, it's that one of the developers may've been a fan of the early 80s animated series "The Mysterious Cities of Gold".
Which - and spoilers for a 40 year old TV show - wound up having a city of gold somewhere vaguely between where the Aztec and Maya were.
That or they really just needed an excuse name for the technology.
I blame "The Mysterious Cities of Gold" for both getting me into history and subsequently into Age of Empires, by the way. :)
Well if it got you into AoE then El Dorado is at least good for something;)
Heinz Harald talking about AoE? You got my attention and my sub, boy!
P. S. I'm from Sicily, our voice dub is hilarious :)
The thing with Yeoman in medieval England is it was mostly in reference to a class of people who were non-noble landowners. These people were not only more readily available to be raised into armies but also often trained much more intensively than serfs, specifically with longbows. So it makes more sense that the class and system of acquiring better trained and readily available archers adds attack value.
As Vietnamese, I can say we use "umbrella" on elephants for sheltering against the sun and the rain. In battle, we'd rather use flamethrower or mount some sorts of hand cannon on it xD
Lets stick with Umbrellas...for Balancing😅
Nice vid! I'm actually from Yucatán & I agree with you, we don't understand why "el dorado" is an mayan tech on aoe2, and it's true, there were no eagle warriors here but a lot of jaguar warriors, one last thing, the Mayan civilization didn't disappear completely, when the Spanish come were a lot of little cities with caciques, they try to conquistate them but they never accomplished that, that's why there is authentical Mayan people all around the peninsula today, if wanna know more about this, can read about the founding of Mérida with Gonzalo Guerrero (an Spanish who decided to marry a Mayan women) & Francisco de Montejo (the whole family) :)
Yep, thats exactly the reason why I introduced the Maya as "an ethnicity still around today".
A friend just made a trip to Calakmul and sent me a video. It is almos unimabinably impressive that there was a major city where now is only jungle
Santa Claus is my new favorite cursed tech
Wow your first video is way beyond anything I made. Great job
Game designers: The game's settings are ready but we still have to come up with a unique technology for the Mayans and the deadline is tomorrow. Any ideas anybody?
-Designer: I just watched yesterday a new movie I rented on VHS it was called El Dorado. That sounds like a cool name doesn't it?
-Lead designers: SOLD!
Are you sure the Japanese kataparuto is derived from the english word catapult? It seems historically more likely that it came from the admittedly similar (or even same) word for catapult 'katapult' (even uses a K like the japanese words). I say more likely because during the isolationist Edo period of Japan, the Dutch were the only foreigners allowed to trade with Japan at the trading post of Dejima. It is through this trading post that Japanese learned about European sciences in Japan (pretty sure they named these sciences 'Dutch studies' for this reason, but I might be wrong or over simplifying). Just a small suggestion/correction, cool video!
Me saying that it came from the english word is ofc a simplification. The word family "catapult" exists in basically every european language, so kataparuto is derived from any of those (but most likely the first time Japanese people hear the word catapult was from a dutch or portuguese)
Very interesting video! Looking forward for the Top 5!
El Dorado could also be an Aztec technology, but no matter if Aztec or Spanish, it should give some sort of boost to gold production.
Good video sir.
Yeomen (Mandatory archery training of the kingdoms commoners/citizenry) would improve their archer abilities, thus the Yeomen effect is fitting, no need for increased training rate.
Having visited Lithuania myself, I can say their topography was brilliantly laid out to construct good defensible hillforts. Thus I love this tech for them.
What I would however change for Lithuanians is:
African ,Mezzo,
Civs that do not gain access to Good cavalry,nor gunpowder,nor elephants and a weak navy should instead receive strong bonuses for their infantry, villagers and trash.
African and mezzo civs should only have canoe navies. Able to fire arrows ,fast ,agile and only using 0.5 pop space but they don't have access to Gally line, nor cannon. Gallons. All canoes can carry/transport 3-5 units and are trained twice as fast as regular ships. Don’t have access to fire ships but get fire canoes that shoot fat covered fire arrows (Fat burns intensely hot). Tech in dock:Fat covered fire arrows - +3 attack to canoes.
Canoes transporting skirmishers gain added pierce armour,attack and range.
Canoe upgrades are half the cost of regular ship upgrades and come in immediately when you research them.
Give the imperial Skirmisher Team bonus (Vietnamese) to a Sub Sahara African civ (Shona people).
Sub Sahara African civs get African huts as Dark age houses. (Already in game.)
Saracen + Berber+Turks + Kurds dark age houses should be Berber tents (Already in game.)
Lithuanians
‘’Skirmishers and spearmen move 10% faster’’ bonus should go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC.
And the (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armour) should go to the Zaputechs.
In turn Lithuanians towershields tech applies to their crossbows and their sword line. .
Dravidians
I would love to see the Dravidian ‘’Skirmishers attack 25% faster’’ bonus go to a new Mapuches/Tarascans civ that forms part of a New DLC
Tribes of the Tropics DLC
Taíno/Arawak peoples / Carib kingdom/Tupi
Zaputechs
Mapuches/Tarascans.
Toltecs
Polynesians/ Tuʻi Tonga Empire.
In turn the Dravidian Urumi gains the ability to build/repair docks and faster firing BBC/hand cannoneers.
I would absolutely love to see that, but some of this stuffcould mess with the balance of the game very badly.
Sometimes is better to accept some dumb things for the sake of gameplay (Afro/meso civs would absolutely be unplayable against decently strong naval civs for example, or completely snowball in early game)
Sign me up for aestethical differences tho!
Amazing video with super fun elements! Would love to see more! :)
Fantastic! Could you do one on aoe1?I think it would be interesting because it seems to me that the logical and historical mistakes are even more preposterous there, like almost everyone (including Minoan) have camels, Sumeria and Egypt can research chain mail armour, pre-assyrian civs have mounted units, etc.
There is still so much content to cover in AoE2. But at some point I might turn to other games for sure
For your first video, it was very well made and professional. Subbed.
Of note with regards to the term "kataparuto", while certainly a loan word from English, "発石木
" was a term used for catapults of the Onin war, which would in effect be man-powered mangonels, however the AoE2 technology is rather nonsensical here as there wasn't really a proper trebuchet analog in Japan. Additionally, the term bathtub does exist in Japanese, as bathing has been a popular practice in Japan well before any European contact, with the terms "浴槽" and "湯船", the latter even having an etymological root in how a service arose to escape the crowded public bathhouses, where people would go and seek the services of "bath ships" off the shore of cities during the Edo period.
With the "bathtub" (which nowadays is commonly usded) comparison I wanted to illustrate that Kataparuto is a loan word from english. I didnt want to allude that Japanese doesnt have an endemic word it.
I didnt know that about the Onin war. How do you write 発石木 in alphabet? Could be a better name for the tech then.
And a third note: You wrote that 発石木 were "man-powered mangonels". Well, doesn't that make it a trebuchet then? The terms for siege equipment literature often vary and overlap in literature but the common definition is that a mangonel is a kind of trebuchet. The difference between a mangonel (which were more common in Asia) and a european trebuchet is that the mangonel is powered by man pulling the lever, whereas the european trebuchet is loosened by a counterweight
@@armchairsaurus "Hatsushiki" in romaji, functionally these weapons were smaller and man-powered, but more importantly, their doctrinal use appears to have been primarily to deal with personnel upon battlements rather than the destruction of fortifications themselves.
Having said that, with consideration for the aesthetic of Japan in AoE2, notably the samurai appearing more late-Muromachi or Sengoku period in style, it might perhaps be more fitting to introduce a gunpowder unique tech instead, as Japan was one of the largest procurers and producers of arquebuses in Asia at the time, and even developed a notable part of their military doctrine around the weapon, as seen at Nagashino or during the Imjin war. There was even a trend in the period of "tameshi gusoku" or bullet tested armor, where if someone was wealthy enough, they'd commission armor which would then have some bullets test fired into it to prove it could stop bullets, with some surviving specimens of such still today. The dents appear quite large, so I'd assume maybe possibly up to100-monme (40mm) bullets were used for testing potentially.
@@cyonemitsu Before publishing anything about the japanese again, I will ask you before to proofread:) may I ask wherefrom you do have tis knowledge?
@@armchairsaurus half Japanese so I grew up with a few books and other resources related to medieval Japan, definitely not my background to be clear, but it's always been a topic of interest to me. I'm sure you can find some similar resources online so long as one looks in the right area. '江戸の砲術 －砲術書から見たその歴史' is a book I've had my eye on for a while, although it's not the cheapest thing in the world.
I did not know of the Hatsushiki! Great find. I'm assuming they'd be pretty much identical to the Chinese Pao/Traction trebuchet
This is a wonderful video! Hope we get further parts.
Done: th-cam.com/video/PZluMMRhlzM/w-d-xo.html
“Huns don’t need to build houses.”
Y’know, I’d be totally down if semi-nomadic or steppe civs like the Huns, Mongols, Tatars, and Cumans all had single or four tile yurts or tents that unpacked and packed and moved like trebuchets.
And don’t forget, arrow wounds can be reduced by up to 50% if you figure out how to weave cloth with a loom!
Its not the cloth that protects you. It is the actual loom;) if you hide behind it, 50% of arrows hit this big wooden tool
Apparently, the original story of El Dorado was about a ritual where the heir to a tribe would be covered in gold for a ceremony, and then proceed to offer valuables to a deity. If we take the liberty to consider that story to be credible enough to make it into AoE2, it could be a technology for the Inca and related to monks, faith, or the fervor or fortitude of warriors
The golden man was a true ritual, but the people who performed it didn't find gold that much valuable and it was used more because it was shiny.
People even drained the lake where it happened trying to recover the gold, but when they did it, the soil became so hard that the whole process costed more than the value of the gold recovered.
And now the lake is protected, so you can't try again.
If you want a fun telling of the story, look at this:
th-cam.com/video/UHzkGueRz3g/w-d-xo.html
@@thomasfplm Huh. Neat
I think yeoman can be construed as having the correct effect. They're professional footsoldiers contrary to the majority of medieval infantry that was composed of temporary levies, they were armed with some of the best bows from the time period (so good they were still in use in the Elizabethan era). It makes sense that it would make them more performant.
I'd love to see a complete historical accuracy mod. Where all of the techs do what they actually did IRL and the techs apply to the correct civs. Also I'd like to the see the unit models get redesigned to actually look how they're supposed to for each civ. That would add a lot more flavor to the civs I think.
I noticed they already mentioned the corrections about the French Serjeant but I also gotta mention another one. There were indeed Japanese catapults, actually if you google "Japanese catapult" the image appears right away. Also look at Hōseki (抛石), Tōsekiki (投石機), Hatsuishiki (発石木) or Hihō (飛砲) all of these seem to be historical names for Japanese catapults before contact with europeans.
You can also google "Shogun 2 Total War Catapult"
Yep some other people also pointed that out. Thats sth I didnt knew. Its actually a missed opportunity on the developers side. If the tech was called Hoseki instead of Kataparuto it would make much more sense.
@@armchairsaurus Yeah! That would have been a great name for the tech.
About Yeomen tech, learning how to wield a bow from childhood ought to make them better at archery in their adult years. It is also found that such individuals had an asymmetrical bone structure, which might make them severely disabled in their older years [that is if they make it that far in life.....], but it would probably make it more natural for them to shoot arrows farther. The feudal and castle age ranges increase is justified this way, making that last +1 range very expensive for them to get that sweet 6+6 range.
Towers should get both range and attack, though it would be similar to the Korean unique tech, so they probably refrained from that.
How to fix El Dorado:
Civ: Inca
Unit: Town center
Effect: Every town centre gives a small trickle of gold, similar to that of the relics
Oh my god this was amazing! Please make more! Rank other techs, rank civ bonuses, rank tech trees, units, etc.
yesyes will do. just takes so much time to make these
@@armchairsaurus Understandable - sorry if it felt like I was pressuring you. Wasn't trying to be aggressive about it. I just thoroughly enjoyed this.
@@slkdfjklasasdfasdf No worries, I didnt perceive it as agressive at all:) much rather as an encouragement. Thanks! And the next video is 85% done
I feel the need to point out that Sicily was under Norman rule for most of the middle ages...
I love these kind of videos. You will have my views 100% if you make more with this style!
13:17 An entire city made of gold can raise a large army and equip them with a fursuit uniform, mainly the Feathery type.
Great video, love the content and I think you sound like Cillian Murphy if he had a German accent 👏🏼. Looking forward to the next vid
Why not , Would like to see more of such videos.
Yeoman makes sense to me. Damage and range effectiveness can be increased because of combat training and readiness.
This was a very good video. Thank you for making it and help give information to the AoE2 community (and everyone else)!
Torsion design was actually created for ballista during Alexander's siege of Cyprus since nothing could otherwise get through the defenses. It wasn't just for catapults. And saying China invented rocketry is questionable at best, since tube based propulsion was found elsewhere earlier.
a ballista is a catapult. It must not throw stones to be a catapult
Great video! I loved the humour and the details!
Oh man, I was hoping someone would make a video like this, specifically because it amuses me how absurd the katapuruto tech is
I was always hoping a pokemon would visit my video
Yeoman increasing range and attack does make sense in my opinion. Its not hard to muster archers, but it is hard to muster good longbowmen. So we could say this tech signifies how training was emphasized.
Lets all agree Yeomen improves the achievable-range-to-training-time ratio
I don't think it is impossible to switch some of these techs around, such as how Boiling Oil was replaced with Kamandaran for Persians since there was little to no evidence of anyone using hot oil to defend their buildings, but you approach the argument of balance versus historical accuracy at that point.
Im not promoting that the effects should be changed. The way the game is balanced is totally fine right now. But sometimes just a simple name change could improve the flavour
I think Ironclad should be a dishonorable mention.
- siege, but should be ships
- effect of giving armor is ok, I think shells wouldn't be melee damage though
- wrong civ, wrong time
I had Ironclad very high on the list long time until I realized that the word "Ironclad" must not refer to the ship Ironclad but to the adjectavie ironclad, which means coated with metal plates. If you interpret the name that way it still isnt the greatest tech but suddenly makes much more sense
Wow, very interesting vid, nicely done! I also would love to see the rest of the tech!
Great video man! I like the idea. Wish there will be more like this. What do you think of my reskilled Scots (because Celts in aoe2 are so wrong in there depicture). I am sure that you will say something about the unique technologies that I picked.
The Scots
Infantry and trash units
I know that the Celts are in the game and they represent the Scots. But they are badly
designed and we can’t give the same tech tree to both the Irish and the Welsh. Just
think about the longbow. Welsh had it but Irish did not.
The flag would be the kingly banner of Scotland. The red lion on a golden bottom.
Bonus
- Trash units move 10% faster => The Scots were experts at guerilla warfare. This
bonus shows that.
- Lumberjacks work 15% faster
- Beginwith 2 more sheep (Scotland is famous for its sheep)
- Every ennemy unit killed brings 5% of its food cost to the Scottish player. => Raids
were common in Scotland even in the modern era. That’s a way to show this
phenomenon.
Team bonus
- Trash units train 15% faster
Unique unit
Gallowglass: heavy infantry 90F 25G
- Castle age: HP: 50 Attack: 12 Armor 2/2 Speed 1.00 Rate of fire 2.0
- Imperial age: Elite 1000F 600G HP 65 Attack 16 Armor 3/3 Speed 1.00 Rate of fire 2.0
An heavy infantry made to charge. Well equipped and powerful, they take many risks due to their
war mindset. That’s why they have less hp than a champion.
Unique technologies
- Castle age => Shiltron 350F 350G Pikemen line gains +1 range and +1/+1 armor. =>
Scotland was famous for its pikemen and their shiltron formation. That’s
why they must be above average.
- Imperial age => Hobelar 350F 400G Light cavalry gains +2/2 armor => The heavy Scottish
horsemen were very few but the Scots had a pretty good light cavalry.
Archery range
1) Bowman => crossbowman
2) Skirmisher => Elite skirmisher
No HA (we are in western Europe not in the steppes), no HC nor the technologies of the
building.
Barrack
1) Militia => Men at arms => Longswordsmen => 2 handed swordsmen => Champion
2) Spearman => Pikeman => Halberdier
- Squires
- Supplies
Stable
1) Scout => Light cavalry => Hussar
2) Knight => Cavalier
- Blood lines
- Husbandry
The Scots had a good light cavalry but not a great heavy one. That’s why they must not
have the paladins.
Siege workshop
1) Ram => Capped ram => Siege ram
2) Mangonnel => Onager
3) Scorpion
4) Siege tower
Scotland was not famous for its siege weapons. I don’t know where the creators of the
game took this idea.
Blacksmith
1) forging => iron casting => blast furnace
2) scale mail armor => chain mail armor => plate mail armor
3) scale barding armor => chain barding armor
4) fletching => bodkin arrow => bracer
5) padded archer armor => leather archer armor => ring archer armor
The range units of Scotland were not as bas as they are in the current game. They were
not on the same level as the British or Welsh ones but they were decent at
least. That’s why I give them bracer and the last armor for their skirmishers
but without thumbring nor arbalester
Dock
1) fishing ship
2) transport ship
3) trade cog
4) fire ship
5) demolition ship => heavy demolition ship
6) galley => war galley => galion
7) canon galion
- guillnets
- careening => dry docks
Scotland was not famous for its navy.
University
- masonery => architecture
- fortified walls
- balistic
- guard tower => keep
- murder holes
- treademill crane
- chemistry
- arrowslits
Castle
- hoardings
- sappers
- conscription
Monastery
- redemption
- atonement
- herbal medicine
- heresy
- sanctity
- fervor
- faith
- illumination
- block printing
- theocracy
Mining camp
- gold mining => gold shaft mining
- stone mining => stone shaft mining
Lumber camp
- double bit axe => bow saw
Mill
- horse collar => heavy plow
No guilds
Hi Seleukos, I hope you dont hold it against me that I found it quite amusing that you posed an entire Civ concept including Tech tree (!) as a comment😂 great dedication.
Content wise (not a complete review, just some things that jump to my eye) in no particular order:
-I think the civ is actually quite well balanced (except the unique techs, we get to that later) which already is a proud feat
-They would also have their own very aggressive identity. Seems very flavourful!
-If their trash is 10% faster you cant give them husbandry. Their hussars would be cobra cars
-why is their monastery so stacked? Any explanation?
and of course the unique techs:
Shiltron: great idea but +1 range on the already super fast halb line seems to me quite overpowered. Would need to be tested. But 1 range is mighty! Historically and logically I think this tech makes very much sense with one detail: Why also +1 pierce armor? How does a tight formation protect against projectiles? As I have perceived it, tight formation of units without shields are very vulnerable to arrowfire (the arrows always hit somebody)
Hobelar: The flavour is nice and from a very quick research it seems fitting:) But it is massively overpowered and underpriced. Believe me, you can't have hussars in the game with 8(!) pierce armor, extra movement speed (faster than cumans) and faster creation time. This tech needs a nerf;)
Btw you would love the TH-camr Mantis AoE - Civ concepts. Tell him I brought you there;)
@@armchairsaurus Haha don't worry! I did that for a chat so I just copied what I did.
- I would say that on arabia they would be ok. In the late game they would be great, in the middle they would be in the middle of the pack. On water maps they would be bottom tier. On arena they would be good in defense but on the offensive it would be hard for them. On hybrid maps they would be also in the middle on the pack.
- So I should change by 1) no husbandry nor squires but +15% 2) husbandry and squire but only +5% 3) just change that for the hussar
- It seems that the monasteries took a great place in medieval Scotland
Unique techs:
- I agree with the defense against arrows. In Falkirk, Scots lost due to their weakness to arrows (in addition with a cavalry charge). But I thought that I had to give more because if I give them let's say only +1 (or even +2) against mêlée weapons it would be Teutons 2.0. So I gave them +1/+1. Maybe I could cancel the +1 against arrows but if I also cancel the +1 range they would be weaker Teutons pikemen.
- I see but you missed a point. Scots don't have the last armor for horsemen. Their hussars would be a bit faster and with +1 mêlée armor than the Hun hussar for example. For the price I could raise it, of course.
Thanks for the link to Mantis.
@@seleukosnikator7347 Indeed I missed the missing armor! Sorry, that makes the tech very reasonable. And about Shiltron. I believe that +1 range alone is already very mighty on a unit that is so easy to mass. The Kamayuk by itself looses clearly against a champ but massed they wreck them. So +1 range I think is big. But ofc would need to be tested
@@armchairsaurus I see what you mean. I did that because they would not have really strong gold units options in the late game. That's why I would make their trash units stronger.
@@seleukosnikator7347 Yeah and I think overall the civ seems really balanced! And that is the main weakness with most civ concepts I read about. Many great ideas but often the civs seem unbalanced.
Goth's Anarchy plus Huskarls were always what triggered me the most
When Larry Bird yelled "Merry fvcking christmas" I thought it was epic... until I watched this video... O brutal!!!
I could see Chu Ko Nu *carrying* rockets as a separate weapon and using the repeating crossbow as a sidearm...
Technically Sicilians are a weird representation of the Normans, the campaign starts in Normandy and they indeed use Norman warriors for this reason. After the DLC Norman representations throughout the campaigns use the Sicilians civ. That said First Crusade never made much sense to me and is a really strange pick for Norman Iraly. I guess they just wanted a crusader tech somewhere in the game and they participated I guess so they ran with it? idk. It's really dumb.
Yeah idk. When i think of the crusades , the english, french, the teutons come to mind ;)
Obviously Santa clause game burmese kids bows and spurs for Christmas. It makes perfect sense.
Nice vid! It would be fun if you did your best to come up with a more suiting technology name.
I wouldn’t mind if they reworked many of these no sense technology names.
Some other commenters gave really good suggestions for alternative names. Because indeed, often all that needs to be changed is the name
Just wanna say you got me good with the medieval artwork depicting a battle elephant equipped with a chatra AND a Yoyo.
Also congrats on 16k+ views with your first video! Very nice :) Looking forward to more.
Please, do more of these historical criticism videos!
With regards to Chatras, I am used to seeing them on depictions of ancient Indian chariot archers. Supposedly, they were there to provide shade from the hot Indian sun on the battlefield. I have no idea of they actually were on the chariots, and I’m not used to seeing them on war elephants.
In Urdu the word for umbrella is "Chathri" and in Punjabi "Chatha". Never once did it cross my mind that Chatras could be the Sanskrit term for umbrella.
You're absolutely right about Chatras in Vietnamese civ. How the hell an umbrella can give Elephants +100 HP? Yes, we did have umbrella on elephants but it's only for celebration of the Emperor. It's absolutely wrong. If you want to make tanky Elephants, have good breeds (in history the capital of Thăng Long, Hanoi has 2000 Elephants) or wear armour on them. And, in history, we put cannons on Elephants instead of Umbrellas. So...hell no
hi guy
super cool video! Nice to know all of these things.
ROFL @ the UT Santa Claus. Brilliant video!
Wow what a great vid. Wish there were a lot more vids like this.
Does anyone else also remember when there was a campaign named El Dorado? I missed that campaign so much
It existed in the Forgotten empires but was later replaced by the current Inca campaign. Here if u want to read more: ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/El_Dorado_(campaign)
Hey great video. I just subscribed and I'm looking forward for more videos like this.
When I was a kid I enjoyed a lot playing AoE II and learning a little bit of history by doing the campaigns and reading civilizations tech tree.
Now I would want to know, for example, who actually had the better knights (when I was a kid, in the game, it was the French knight line, but now the game has new civs and units and it's not anymore)
glad to hear I'm not the only one who has "reading civilizations tech tree" as a hobby xD
Thanks for the subscribe! Who has the better knights depends a lot against what they are matched up. In case of Archers for example it would be the Sicilians. Hauberk is a hell of a tech (and on top of that historically very accurate *hint hint*)
@@armchairsaurus Nice. Why does a Frank paladin has more HP than a Spanish one? Does it make sense?
@@shafoz Yes. The Franks (and more so actually their successor nation, the French Kingdom) very much relied on heavy impact cavalry. Whereas the spanish for example where primarily using light cavalry called Jinete (Genitour in the game given to the Berbers). Of course this could also have been represented by giving Frankish knights more armor, but more HP is ofc viable too
Nice videos!
I would like to mention any creative decision is taken by the director / creative team and not by the developers. I am saying this in regards for KATAPARUTO.
Hi, Vietnamese here, only Royal elephant has umbrella cuz our royal may mounted the beast back in the day and they cant stand the tropical sun. The war elephant dont have umbrella. If u curious how it look like just google: annam hue elephant, Annam is VietNam under French rule.
oh yeah indeed!
A much better name for El Dorado would've been The Fountain of Youth. Still mythological, but it's in the right general area and works with the hp bonus.
Love the choice of music! It’s what I play aoe2 to ;)
I did like your video but I gotta mention another tiny corrections, about the Mayans. 600-900AD was only the fall of the Mayan states but Mayan archaeology is divided in 3 periods.
Pre-classic Mayans 1000BC - 250AD
Classic Mayans 250AD - 900AD
Post-classic Mayans 900AD - 1521 (arrival of the Spanish) Actually they were the first enemy face by Hernán Cortés in 1519
After that Mayans are divided according to Mexican history as:
Colonial Mayans 1521 - 1821 (Mayans were finally conquered in the late 18th century)
Post-colonial Mayans 1821 - Present day (Google the "Caste War of Yucatan")
I still agree 100% with you about "El Dorado" technology.
Yes I'm aware. Thats why I said the maya as represented in the game seem to refer to the Mayan empire/cities of the time around 600-900AD. I know that Mayans predated that time. My first sentence about Mayans was "Mayans are an ethnicity still around today" I believe. But thanks for the insights
@@armchairsaurus No no, I got your point man, I mean that AoE2 Mayans don't just represent 600-900 AD. What I meant is that they represent All of Classic and Post classic Mayans. But don't mind it it is really a nitpick, I think you're spot on with "El Dorado".
I think another poorly named tech is Manipur Cavalry for Burmese. It gives a bonus to cavalry which is correct at least, but the effect is useless and the civ is completely incorrect as they were not used by the Burmese, but rather against the Burmese