You also forgot to mention the estimated $1 TRILLION dollars it will cost to clean up the abandoned and leaking oil and gas wells across the USA. Why do people never figure that into the economic equation when talking oil & gas costs... Yet another externality forgotten by profiteers I suppose! That's the virtually the only argument anyone needs to say whenever they complain about renewable or BEV subsidies... At least to me!
I think that a disclaimer should be in these kind of videos, china is a dictatorship, it wants to use violence to take over Taiwan, did that to Hongkong.
Many people ask why when legacy OEMs when make an EV version of their ice cars they can be 30%-50% more expensive than the ice version. The answer is economies of scale. So the Chinese government helps companies do economics on a scale. The result at the end of 2024 legacy OEM in China said "for the first time in the history of the electric car industry, it has achieved economies of scale cheaper than internal combustion cars in China."This result can only be achieved after the industry produces 8 million EV (11 Million if you also count hybrids) in a year 2024. But this government assistance has led to overcapacity. China now has 30 million capacity to make internal combustion cars and 20 million capacity to make EVs. Total 50 million capacity while only 23 million cars are sold in a year
Chinese never call it an Invasion when American, European cars took over and dominated their automobile market 20-30 years ago. Now, they have competitive products and you started calling it invision.
It isn't other people's fault the chinese didn't see it as an invasion. There are consequence to invasions. What seem like free lunch now could have great costs later. Same like the dynastic china thought silver was free to take. It wasn't and the eventual cost was huge.
You didnt make auto anything 20-30 years ago lol China on a whole only changed 20-30 years ago - before than - they was a back water country. They couldnt even feed their own people.
@@711colonel They have certainly made things better in China for sure. My first trip to Shanghai in 2009 surprised me by how bad the smog was. Several transit stop through Beijing made me see the worst of it, the plane landed and it seems like we were still in the clouds. Transiting through last spring, 2024, such a huge difference, blue skies! Friends on the East coast got to experience what it was like in Beijing for years after that wildfire sent smoke over for a short period of time.
The improvement in air quality is due to a broad effort on multiple areas. The evs are only a small reason, as most cars on the road are still ICE vehicles. Many old coal plants and industries have been closed or moved out of town, new emission standards and restrictions have been introduced and enforced. I am not saying switching to evs will not improve air quality.
@@711colonel China is building 100 new coal paired power plants this year. Those EVs are mostly fueled by coal. China realizes wind mills and solar panels are costly and intermittent power sources.
@@theien5929 Then how you explain the cheap electricity price in China. I will give you the real situation - As of the end of June 2024, in China, the national renewable energy power generation (wind power and photovoltaic combined) installed capacity reached 1.653 billion kilowatts, an increase of 25% year-on-year, accounting for about 53.8% of China's total power generation installed capacity, wind power photovoltaic power generation installed capacity exceeded the size of coal power. There wind turbines every where, almost every city with wind sources, and China's largest photovoltaic power plant is 609 square kilometers, an area close to a Singapore. Many solar power stations are built near former coal mines, where coal mining has stopped and solar energy has replaced it. Many solar plants also use sheep farming as a sideline, as the sheep help graze the grass under the solar panels. There are countless energy generation modes and facilities. Reading your comment, people might think you're still stuck in the 1980s.
Invasion is too strong and negative a word... Chinese just produced cars that they think majority of people will want.. they didn't force anyone to buy it
Some people called them (Chinese EV companies) invaders because their businesses and their inexpensive EVs are destroying the beloved and trusted fuel car companies (maybe except Toyota that is strongest and still very strong).
@@Joe44944 It was actually called ‘The British Invasion’, and American record companies didn’t like it one bit. Same thing happened with British motorbikes, then Japanese motorbikes and transistor radios, then Japanese cars. Seeing a pattern?
They force their own citizens to buy them, and that is a huge market because they dont have 50 years of privately owned cars to buy used. You can only get license plates in China for an EV. If you want plates for a gas car, you have to win them in a lottery which I believe is around 2% of applicants. So basically you cant drive a gas car. Having said that, I think its a GREAT idea for Chinese citizens being taxed to make buying stuff cheaper in the US.
I lived and did business in China from 2004 to 2013. I still travel back there at least 1x per year. The Chinese EVs are amazing. I fear we have already lost the race. It’s a near certainty that the future of transportation is electric, but it’s being used as a wedge issue in the US to benefit the status quo and special interests. In the long run it’s going to do serious harm to the US economy. Tariffs and protectionism are not the answer, and will only make it worse by stifling innovation here.
Totally agree! I own teslas and travel to China every year much like you do. We are very far behind and tariffs will just make it worse. We need to embrace competition and innovate!
Here in Australia, a country with no auto manufacturing industry, we have 65 new EV models arriving in 2025 according to Electric Viking on youtube, by far the majority coming from China.
Make no mistake Australia will end up banning them or putting tariffs on them when told to do so by the yanks. We arent an independent country, our government serves the US rather than our own citizens.
We have FOUR Teslas here in our extended family in Oz, two 3s and two Y’s. 🇦🇺 Two are made in China (the Y’s), and the two 3s were built in Fremont. The Chinese ones are considered by most if not all to be better build quality than Fremont.
Before 2015 the world car industry were dominated by the European, US and Japanese cars. But China was not complaining. Double standards, bias and discrimination of the West?
In 2015, China not only complained, but also started effectively banning foreign EV battery competitors and forced all EV OEMs to switch to local Chinese battery makers, namely CATL/BYD, ensure China's market dominance under MIIT's Regulation on Power Standard.
@@tooltalk You didn't tell the whole story, car manufacturer can use whatever battery they want, but no government subsidy. And People can still buy foreign EV at a reasonable price such as Tesla Model S/X. Now, what the US doing is imposing 100%+ on Chinese EV, which actually BLOCK EV from China.
Indeed, the whole thing about China subsidising its own industries actually make me burst out laughing. EVERY country does it with industries and businesses that are ultra important to them. The oil/gas and petrochemical industries have been subsidised around the world for over a hundred years. The last time I looked at the numbers, globally we were sunsidising those industries to the tune of $5.7T [that "T" is a Trillion] per annum. And every DAY, they make $2.7B [yes "B" is for Billion] in net profit. They spend billions per YEAR. It used to be millions but they ramped up the fear, uncertainty and doubt, commonly known as FUD, because they're starting to lose. But that's fine by them because every day there's an extra delay, there's that net daily profit. How's the air quality and pollution level where you live?
I’m not against China funding their auto industry but a tax rebate is different since it only impacts citizens of our country while the other one makes cost lower for Chinese companies to sell everywhere. We do the same thing with the regular auto industry so I don’t see a problem with China doing this. Where I do see a problem is safety because most Chinese EVs don’t do as well in crashes. I like where Xiaomi started if they up the safety to Tesla standards they can be a big competitor world wide until unsupervised FSD gets released.
@@wwecallofduty123 unsupervised fsd. How many years have you been buying that crap for? What did you think of Elon's salutes at the inauguration? Good times, eh?
@@wwecallofduty123 You should check how many Chinese evs have achieved 5 star safety ratings from Euro NCAP. You'll be surprised how many there are. Chinese Zeekr X has been named the safest ev in its class for 2024 by the same agency.
By the time they meet all the requirements and arrive (minus any tariffs) the Chinesium EVs cost about the same if not a little bit more than their competitors.
True. The only people to be hurt by tariffs are the buyers of cars. The only people to benefit in the short term will be car companies and shareholders, but it’s encouraging them to stay in the past rather than pivoting to keep pace. Elon will be first in the queue to get subsidies from the tariff slush fund trump is setting up (thinly disguised as a “sovereign wealth fund”). We only believe n subsidies when we are giving the, out. All other subsidies are bad….
Here in Australia we have no tariffs on EVs and BYD and MG are everywhere despite all the claims people would never touch a Chinese brand. They are undercutting the Chinese built Teslas by a big margin. Tesla sales here are in decline.
@@NeojhunZeekr are now here as are XPeng, Chery and others who I can’t name off the top of of my head but in a couple of years there will be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these Chinese branded cars here and their brand names will start to become familiar. I am old enough to remember when Kia and Hyundai were new novelty brands and earlier still when Toyota, Mazda, Nissan etc first arrived and were viewed as cheap foreign badly built cars 😂.
As an oldie (arthritis) Tesla's are devilish to get in and out. The BYDs are higher so are much easier to access. For me they are the only choice and as it happens they are also a great drive.
@@garydmercer Some people don’t want to pay more for a vehicle that offers a stripped down interior, when there are others that offer more equipment for less cost.
Here in Thailand there are over a dozen Chinese EV companies selling and I see EVs everywhere on the roads. I went to the big Auto show in December to hunt for EVs and they were almost all Chinese. I posted the video about it on my channel here.
@@MikesTropicalTech what Thailand did in regards to Chinese EVs, as they already have a big auto manufacturing industry with big tariffs on imports was to say that for every Chinese made Ev you sell in Thailand, you have to build a factory there and sell locally built ones too. It's quite smart as you get imported cars but also locally made cars. Also GWM bought the GM factory in Thailand when they pulled out of the RHD market completely to focus more on China, I'm wondering how well this is going. GM doesn't sell any cars here in Australia anymore officially, except for some trucks imported from USA and converted to RHD. Most of our other cars sold in Australia especially Japanese brands come from Thailand.
@@rp9674if Japan was to then step up to compete with the merger would you prefer one of their vehicles? You want some external competition so the local giants are forced to compete for better quality vehicles at affordable pricing. Otherwise sure the govt can subsidize ev purchases for consumers and also bet that the EV manufacturer will just have an excuse to make it cost more. Wham bam thank you govt for free money. Govt gets to look good while doing it of course...
the businesses in your country also don't care about the country of origin of their workers. They would like more choices for quality foreigners. I hope you don't mind the external competition. The more foreigners - the lower the wages, so hopefully this will decrease your price and you become more affordable for the companies.
@@tooltalk yes Tata, Mahindra have come along way in the last two years. Then Hyundai, Suzuki, MG have also released new EV models. Most are cheaper than BYD. So if I were to buy now going for BYD is not an easy decision like how it was two years ago 😊
Go back 10 years in London and then walk around London today: air pollution is night and day because now a good 1/4-1/3 of cars you see driving around there are full EVs. It's not just China where EVs are improving air quality. We should be embracing any cheap options for the health of citizens rather than protecting slow-to-adapt, uncompetitive automakers to maintain profits.
Here in Australia the Chinese EV manufacturers have sparked a price war. Some models are selling for less than $20K US. Even the Tesla Model 3 rival, the BYD Seal, starts at $22K. Price parity with ICE has been reached if not exceeded. Great for consumers.
The cost of oil extraction per barrel in Saudi is only $5.4 compared to US oil which is $51. Because most of the oil reserves in Saudi is conventional reserves. And most US oil is shale oil. If it's not for US government subsidies there wouldn't be any oil produced in USA due the higher costs.
Plus, the country receives no real benefit to the general population except the jobs. Tax money from workers is given away to and not collected on profits. It's nuts. We should at least get some free gasoline.
@breft3416 Also your gas price is subsidized by the tax payer. If it wasn't you would be paying around 15 bucks a gallon not the 3 - 5ish dollars you pay now. The true cost of oil production and cost is hidden
I also drive a Chinese-built Polestar 2. Bought in 2022 and actually got the $7500 tax credit on it. I feel it’s much better built than our Tesla M3P. Although the Tesla does have its advantages, I understand how Chinese vehicles are a threat to US automakers.
The minister Wan Gang is also a trained engineer with a PhD in engineering and an engineering career. This guy knew what he was doing. And you see this pattern across the Chinese leadership -- China is literally led by engineers, not lawyers. They innovate and they build, while the Chinese culture itself promotes the entrepreneurial spirit. That largely explains China's meteoric rise today. Even President Xi has a chemical engineering background.
All Chinese civil servants have to pass exams, and basically all cadres have worked their way up from the grassroots level. It is impossible for them to become leaders without any governing experience.
Hell I took a short hop to the British Virgin Islands on a cruise recently, and was surprised to see some Chinese Haval and Changan vehicles on the island. And those were sort of mediocre ICE vehicles. When the world outside of China starts transitioning to EVs and plug in hybrids in earnest, the Chinese carmakers are going to be ready, especially in the global south nations who won't be able to afford the few high priced EVs mostly made by western automakers.
The only western auto-manufacturer that stands a chance against the rise of the Chinese EV is Tesla. And even Tesla relies on BYD batteries and other Chinese-made batteries for some of its cars.
And government subsidies…don’t forget we’re subsidising Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, and oil and gas companies. And didn’t we already bail out the car, banking and mortgage companies?
…. In the US. Looking at the trends in the market, yes Tesla is very competitive but through lack of investment they are now being matched by European legacy auto brands such as BMW and Renault who also have better supply chain management and a better range of smaller models. Yes VW and Stellantis have had issues catching up but the next gen of European EVs is really going to be competitive. The problem in the US is that manufacturers became obsessed with margins over building a customer base so they (including Tesla) are going to be left behind by smaller, fun and practical competitors designed in Europe and Japan and possibly built in the US.
CATL's Skateboard uses the best batteries commercially available and has a Million Mile Warranty. I would absolutely buy a car based on this standardized platform. Ounce they update to axial-flux motors it will be very hard to catch them. It's impossible to argue that they are the world leader in batteries at this time.
Whats happening in the auto industry is textbook first-mover, distruptor, that was taught in my MBA courses. New innovator comes into the market and offers a compelling product. Incumbents slow to react. New entrant eats their lunch.
No it is not. Tesla was the first mover of any significance. What China is doing defies economic theory as they play by their own rules subsidising at a level the world has never seen before. The kicker is they are brilliant at it and we in the west have no clue how to react. And by the way this is not the first time. Look at how they destroyed the European photovoltaic industry doing exactly the same thing. Copy European technology, improve and scale it in record time through government subsidies, undercut the market launching a wide range of products in equal quality but 30 % cheaper worldwide. And low and behold, it worked. We are way too naive and bureaucratic to compete.
It's text book history, I think. There were 200+ auto manufacturers in 1908, 44 in 1929, 3 when I grew up in the 50s and 60s and shrinking. This is going on in China and will probably have a similar market and technological shake out. Going like we are in the US, it won't be long til we're horse and buggying again.
@@BenSullinsOfficial In the late '70s China silently secretly shifted from communism to capitalism, private ownership until it is more capitalist that the US Empire.
Every country around the world has subsidized their automotive industry. Including America, Canada, Germany just to name a few.. Even Australia was subsidizing its automotive industry, right up until there wasn't one.
Eurpoean car manufacturers were making large fortunes in China until a few years ago when their sales started to fall as the Chinese started buying their own EVs. Being the worlds largest car market this spells significant loss of profits for these car manufacturers. As it is the largest car market in the world (1 in 3 cars sold globally) China will be ok but other car manufacturers are not so fortunate
I've seen very few people who go back to ICE vehicles after they start driving EVs these days, it's just..... better for daily use now since we are now in the walking stages in the US, the problem is China has been running and sprinting while we've been holding on to dear old money and profit seeking with almost no innovation so of course we are losing, and I don't like it one bit. That's what happens when lobbying is legal in our country.
When will the American people wake up and take back the power from our politicians? Politicians divide the people so they can have all the power in the end. Vote for the people that can articulate a good policy for the country.
In the US we have a monopoly of low quality American car manufacturers. I refuse to buy a new American truck for $80,000, I want BYD. For now, I drive 20 years old truck.
I currently live in Thailand and Chinese EVs are all over and are really nice. BYD is the top seller, but many other brands here also. Tesla sells the Chinese Model Y and Model 3 right hand drive here also but are more expensive than the Chinese brands.
What I saw in past news was that China is not just subsidizing to compete better, but doing it at a level to dominate the market. It's being compared to what China did with solar panels, where now 90% of solar panels come from China. If the same thing happened to the auto industry, it would be a huge number of jobs lost in the US.
That wasn't smog, that was sand particles that was being blown in from the deserts. it used to happen about 60 times a year but due to their desert reforestation projects, it only happens 3 or 4 times a year now.
@@freetorobandloot It is to inform those uninformed. If they don't believe it, they can fact check it anytime instantly with a search engine. If they refuse to believe it, they probably have been brainwashed that they prefer to thinking the worst of China.
Smog was still pretty bad. They had folks with shop vacs accumulating bricks worth of crap off the air on the daily. As EV adoption as well as mass transit construction and use ramped up, the air cleaned up pretty well.
China has already spent over $230+B in EV subsidies since 2009.. China also spends over $270+B every year in fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy for their local industry and overcapacity.
@austingirdner92 we're only a few percent of the global population, and the global majority drives slower safer speeds that also allow for more affordable EV options for more people, including rural areas.
@@thecsucihai Let's be honest here ... self driving technology can be part of any kind of drive train. EV does not equal self driving. Most EVs don't have self driving and even the ones that do remain rather limited and are not allowed to drive without a human being on hand.
In the past two years, the Chinese government has stopped subsidizing electric vehicles. The reason why Chinese people buy electric vehicles is that electricity can save one-fifth to one-tenth of gasoline. This is very important because it is not a matter of protecting the environment, but a matter of technological progress. So why don't Westerners buy electric vehicles? One of the main reasons is that electric vehicles are too expensive here.
This is also untrue. China's EV subsidies have been around 2009; extended/renewed every 2-4 years. The last "direct purchase subsidies" ended in Jan 2023, but was extended in June 2023 as tax credit for another 4 years, for an estimate budget of $72B. China also throws in additional provisional subsidies as they see fit: eg, ICE-toEV conversion subsidies of 2,000 yuan between May 2024 and Dec 2024 to prop up slowing EV sales.
@@DaWang-yb5ei It may not count as a subsidy, but it’s definitely an incentive. Also, the Guangdong area, home to massive cities like Shenzen and Guangzhou, is where most cars are registered. I’m sure there are some cars in less populous areas, but large cities undeniably affect car-buying habits in the country.
If we don’t compete, we’re doomed in the long run regardless. At least in some limited capacity Americans should be exposed to Chinese tech and products because that will inspire innovation. This is going to cause generational decay. If American kids today get exposed to Chinese tech, they are more likely to develop the technologies of the future to compete with the Chinese products of today. Instead we’re literally stuck with the exact same iphone every single year. We can’t even get China’s superior drones… American companies are studying Chinese products while the general public doesn’t . That’s hundreds of millions of people not in on the competition. Incredibly foolish. Ironically this is how China fell behind the world by closing themselves off from the rest of the world.
@ that’s exactly why they do it. Do you think when the chip act was signed it was just for the home market? No it was to make chips in its own country, so making them cheaper as they had been subsidised by a grant to help build a factory. It’s exactly the same. Only thing is China government owns part of every company in China it’s the way the country is set up. Why do you think it is so much more developed and progressing faster than most western countries.
Give us cheap and basic daily commute EV that match the price of Chinese EVs, and I will be OK to ban whoever they want. But if the ban is just to keep EVs as luxury vehicles and average car price at $60k ☹️
Eventually, someone can probably say “That guy just helped an old lady!” with a disgusted tone and people will start feeling that helping an old lady out is somehow a crime. 😂
Competition is good for consumers. While US might have very few Chinese EVs . I think at least polestar has quite a few units sold? Those are Chinese even if some Swedish design is part of the DNA.
Thank you so much for the well-balanced and insightful video. I truly enjoyed it and appreciate the effort put into making it. Keep up the excellent work!
Your factual clarity is remarkable and so easy to watch and understand. Keeping it factual and straight forward is the way to do it. Love your channel, smart guy, intelligent channel. Keep up the good work.
Over 10 years ago China’s govt figured that they will never catchup to Western ICE technology with all its Emissions regulations imposed by the Western countries, but they knew that BEVs don’t have tailpipes and Pollution be @ the Source of generation or non if from renewable sources like Solar which they already dominate.
Just spent three weeks holiday in Marocko and was thriving up and Dow all of the country and on every rest place on the motorway, lots of them there was a shop a restaurant toilets prayer area, play are for kids and electric charger. Didn’t see many electric cars but when people want and can afford them the infrastructure structure is there. The motorways costed a fee but boy there was smooth and in super condition and as they go over mountains there was sand pockets to halt you if the brakes gets overheated. There was employed garbage collectors walking on the side of road so it was spotless. Very impressive. North Africa is on its way to electric cars too. Renault/Dacia build cars in Marocko.
One problem with this. You say the Shenzhen bus fleet was converted in 2009. When Tesla had the Roadster 1. That's not correct. It was converted between 2016 ad 2018. It takes about a minute to check that out.
Here in Australia, we have no restrictions on Chinese EV imports, and in fact the Chinese take advantage of zero tariffs on EV's and of various state and federal EV incentives. Why the difference between Australian and US policy? Because we no longer have an automotive industry to protect. Companies such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and Mitsubishi, which all had factories here, pulled out of Australia, leaving us with no option but to import all of our cars. Of course, Tesla also takes advantage of this situation, by importing their Chinese-built EV's into Australia, and they have taken the top end of the EV market, but their sales have slumped over the last year, as the native Chinese brands have started to undercut them with more affordable EV's. Perhaps there is a message here for GM and Ford: if you want to compete with the Chinese EV's, you need to emulate Tesla, but perhaps you also need to ramp up sales of more affordable EV models such as the Chevrolet Bolt (which incidentally was designed in Australia when GM's Holden branch still had a design studio, look it up). Likewise, Tesla needs to move away from Elon's obsession with FSD and just give the people what they want, an affordable Tesla. Tesla could then claim to have completed their mission which was to start with an expensive model and then just work their way down progressively to more affordable models. I believe the sweet spot would be a Model Z, the ultimate affordable EV, smaller than the Y, but in that same SUV shape, but more of a compact SUV like a Hyundai Kona, or the Chinese equivalent would be the BYD Atto 3 or MG ZS, both of which have sold really well in Australia. If it was built using the unboxed method, it could be cheaper, but also more desirable than the smaller hatchback type EV's which tend to have more limited range and are also less useful as they have less space.
Yes the model Z. Like with a big white Z on the side of each car door. You can take them straight to the battlefield in Ukraine. I think master manipulator and racist bigot Musk wouldn't mind. He's friends with Trump who is a buddy to Putler. What can go wrong?
@àtonline the Australian take advantage of affordable good quality EV from China instead of paying double for Tesla, the days of compete against China is over No more invading colonized and plundering, exploiting and slave labor by white Europeans. Those are the reasons the West decline, back then they were stealing from countries around the world
Of the 7 trillions in fossils fuel subsidies, only 1.3tr is explicit subsidies (18%) in the form of direct payments or tax breaks for consumer and producers. And this is because lots of governments in the world supported consumers from high energy prices caused by the war in Ukraine and Russia and all the sanctions imposed on cheap Russian oil and gas. The remaining 5.7 trillion (82%) are implicit subsidies… implicit means meaning they are not directly paid by governments but they take the form of undercharging for the environmental and health costs of fossil fuels, such as the damage caused by air pollution and climate change. It’s whole science how one estimates these implicit subsidies and how they apportioned across the whole economy not just the passenger cars… Big question… why we compare fossil fuels which is energy source to an EV car? …It’s better to compare ICE car vs EV car subsidies or even better “ fossil fuel VS electricity subsidies “ which are both energy sources. As far as I know electricity in the west is majority produced from fossil fuels which are subsidised…..
Subsidizing the car manufactury is not at all the same as subsidizing oil extraction. One is a raw material desired the world over at the lowest price possible; the other is a highly desired value-added high-tech industry. One makes the country poor over time; the other is much more sustainable and beneficial to the local economy. That is why all countries love value-added high-tech industries. This is also why there are many trade wars fought over it, and why it heavily features in trade agreements.
oil is heavily subsidized here in the U.S. If we took away all subsidies, our price of gas per gallon would be $10 per gallon or higher. Oil production is filthy, expensive and a heavily polluting process. Ice vehicles are so much more complex and expensive to maintain.
They have no problem with Chinese made gas powered cars. People forget that nearly all of the small cars of GM and Buick are Chinese based cars. Then there is Volvo etc.
Amazing clarity on tariffs and subsidies, especially in the EV sector. People need this to combat misinformation by politicians and business leaders. Definitely sharing on Facebook
Nissan was not late to the EV game, I think they were actually one of the first to create mass-market affordable-ish EVs ... but something went wrong there apparently. Honda was late and not a surprise they are in trouble
Nissan stopped innovating after the leaf is the problem, just now they're coming out with new EVs and the Leaf itself hasn't changed much since launch. Probably has something to do with their CEO situation
They should have made the next EV much sooner than the Ariya, but the design of the Leaf did get overhauled in 2018/2019. I miss the personality it used to have...
Oil is like diamonds which are artificially inflated. VW backed out of a deal with BYD. The companies in USA can create cheap EVs, but they are worried about their gas vehicles so they make both expensive. You can get an electric car in China for $10 000. Also Tesla buys their good batteries from China.
All EV OEMs are required to source EV batteries from local suppliers, namely CATL/BYD, to do business in China and receive subsidies since 2015. Tesla's Long Range models didn't receive any until 2021.
There are currently four models for sale in the United States that are made in China. The Lincoln Nautilus crossover is built at the Changan Hangzhou Assembly Plant. The Buick Envision crossover is also built in China through a joint venture with General Motors and the Chinese state-owned automaker SAIC. Also most MG's sold in the US are China built.
I love all of Ben’s content. This one was especially good Unfortunately, here in the United States half of our population has been captured by Internet rabbit holes and doesn’t believe any of the facts that Ben just laid out. The United States will cling to their gas guzzling SUVs and pick up trucks until Ford and GM eventually go out of business.
American politicians know they can not win Chinese EV, so they play dirty games on 100% tariffs. Poor American car buyers must pay more than 200% price to buy one Chinese EV.
My view is tariffs can help in the short term but are not a long term solution. Putting in place a tariff that gradually sunsets provides near term help as the industry transitions. For example a 50% tariff that gradually decreases over 5-10 years. It is the same for subsidies. Gradually reduce the subsidy over a period of years. I also feel the same way about legislation. No legislation should be permanent. Let it expire. If it is needed it can be reauthorized.
There are some truly bad ass chinese electric vehicles . If they are able to produce them cheaper , i say let them in . The same thing happened in the 80s with Japanese cars . It forced innovation through increased competition
9:58 Wan Gang was my professor! He worked for Audi in Germany before the Chinese government invited him back to China in 2000. He became the head of the College of Automotive Studies in Tongji University, then the minister of science and technology in central government. He singlehandedly planned for China’s EV industry. I am no fan of the CCP to put it mildly, but I have to give them the credit on this.
@BenSullinsOfficial To add, Wan Gang is not a member of the Communist Party. He serves as the Minister of Science and Technology in China. There are many important officials in China who are not members of the Communist Party. China is not a "one-party dictatorship" in the actual sense. The Western world's understanding of China is too shallow. This This is the reason why the West failed. Sun Tzu said: Know yourself and the enemy and you will be victorious in every battle. Westerners will pay the price for their arrogance
THE BIG THREE WOULD BE DEAD IN THE WATER 50 YEARS AGO IF IT WERN'T FOR TAX PAYERS BAILING THEM TO THE TUNE OF TENS OF BILLIONS EACH TIME . WE CAN'T AFFORD 80 PLUS GRAND FOR A CAR OR TRUCK 'SO AN AFFORDABLE AUTO SOUNDS GREAT NO MATTER WHO BUILDS IT AS LONG AS IT IS RELIABLE AND NOT A MONEY PIT OR PAPER WEIGHT . BRING THE CHINESE EV'S AND LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE IF THEY WANT THEM . WE HAVE EVERYTHING MADE CNINESE ANYHOW .
I’ve actually seen a BYD on the 405 heading south towards San Diego. I already knew what it was as I have seen them in Canada, but many people were following it taking pictures.
@ I saw some driving in Richmond and Surrey BC. Not too many but since I have been keeping up with the EV market, I knew what the cars were already. I think Canada is testing them.
I think Ben needs to update his video on the VW “plans” to close German plants. This was reported as being part of discussions with unions regarding how they could become more competitive against imports. It was basically if the unions didn’t agree a way forward the plants may have to close and production moved abroad. Following agreement with the unions those plants, as far as reports from Germany have stated, are not being closed. One VW plant in Belgium is being closed that manufacturers the Audi Q8 but that’s for different reasons mainly it’s not large enough and restricted due to its location. All of this is not to say that some plants that produce ICE vehicles may have to close if they cannot be reworked economically to produce EVs and new plants built.
I remember Trump's tariffs in his his first term....was a huge disaster to farmers selling their products overseas...they had to be reimbursed with hundreds of billions of $$.
The Ca gas tax is currently 59.6 cents per gallon. Assuming an ICE gets 25 mpg, each 100 miles driven $2.38 is collected - 2.38 cents per mile. Ca will start to require state tax odometers be installed in EV's so the tax can be collected.
@@Bill1516 Many states require annual emissions or safety inspections. When my state used to require these, the odometer reading and vin were written on the inspection sticker. Today, one person could easily key that into a tablet connected to a database.
Yep, either the mileage will be transmitted one way or another, which includes a fixed camera on the odometer, according to California's pilot program. It's similar to the federal government's EV mileage tax fee pilot program that was passed in the infrastructure bill. So CA residents, at some point, will receive 2 annual mileage tax bills.
There is also an "unsaid" issue. ICE cars use a large number of components, the component manufaacturers are going broke too. This is a problem because the component manufaccturers build bits and pieces for the military, without the component manufacturers, countries cant field armies so the gov'ts will protect industries at all costs including reversing ev mandates.
One of the most important issues with subsidies is the question of how easily production could shift to different companies and different countries if the situation changes. Most manufacturing involves simple enough items that it is relatively easy for manufacturing to move around to wherever makes the most sense based on economic conditions at a given time. But there are a few industries such as mass-market motor vehicles, high-end microprocessor production, and large airplanes where the necessary investment in areas such as research, development, manufacturing facilities, and establishing supply chains is so enormous that anyone trying to start a new company is at a gigantic disadvantage against established companies. Countries with strong industries in such areas have strong vested interests in protecting their industries against subsidized competition because of the enormous obstacles against replacing or rebuilding the domestic producers if subsidized competition kills or cripples them and then the conditions that made buying subsidized imports advantageous change.
What do you mean about the Philippines? There are many Chinese car brands even before 2020. The BYD though started around 2021/22. But when I see a BYD car, especially the Sealion, it is among the best in design. I used to admire BMW and Merck. But whenever I see a BYD car, its design aura is more premium even though it is many times affordable than a BMW. Geely, Chery, Chang'an and BYD are getting more popular here.
I believe we already have commercial Chinese EVs like buses. So, they’re already here, just not for us individually. I would love to try that Xiaomi SU7 car!
Check out Roborock's new Saros 10 and Saros 10R at bit.ly/3PAlK4N #ad
According to statistics from this channel EVs are 19 times safer than fossil in terms of fire.
What is the correct name of this video? You've changed it 2-3 times.
You also forgot to mention the estimated $1 TRILLION dollars it will cost to clean up the abandoned and leaking oil and gas wells across the USA. Why do people never figure that into the economic equation when talking oil & gas costs... Yet another externality forgotten by profiteers I suppose! That's the virtually the only argument anyone needs to say whenever they complain about renewable or BEV subsidies... At least to me!
I think that a disclaimer should be in these kind of videos, china is a dictatorship, it wants to use violence to take over Taiwan, did that to Hongkong.
Many people ask why when legacy OEMs when make an EV version of their ice cars they can be 30%-50% more expensive than the ice version.
The answer is economies of scale.
So the Chinese government helps companies do economics on a scale.
The result at the end of 2024 legacy OEM in China said "for the first time in the history of the electric car industry, it has achieved economies of scale cheaper than internal combustion cars in China."This result can only be achieved after the industry produces 8 million EV (11 Million if you also count hybrids) in a year 2024.
But this government assistance has led to overcapacity.
China now has 30 million capacity to make internal combustion cars and 20 million capacity to make EVs.
Total 50 million capacity while only 23 million cars are sold in a year
Chinese never call it an Invasion when American, European cars took over and dominated their automobile market 20-30 years ago. Now, they have competitive products and you started calling it invision.
It isn't other people's fault the chinese didn't see it as an invasion. There are consequence to invasions. What seem like free lunch now could have great costs later. Same like the dynastic china thought silver was free to take. It wasn't and the eventual cost was huge.
@@fungames24, should they wake up now and stop buying Telsa and Apple iPhones, MS window ,, ?
@@fungames24 so what ur saying is that the US and the West in general are a bunch of untrustworthy hypocrites?
You didnt make auto anything 20-30 years ago lol China on a whole only changed 20-30 years ago - before than - they was a back water country. They couldnt even feed their own people.
Agree 100% but invasion not invision.
In terms of air pollution, EV is really a game changer. I was in China 20 years ago and last year, the difference is night and day.
@@711colonel They have certainly made things better in China for sure. My first trip to Shanghai in 2009 surprised me by how bad the smog was. Several transit stop through Beijing made me see the worst of it, the plane landed and it seems like we were still in the clouds. Transiting through last spring, 2024, such a huge difference, blue skies! Friends on the East coast got to experience what it was like in Beijing for years after that wildfire sent smoke over for a short period of time.
The improvement in air quality is due to a broad effort on multiple areas. The evs are only a small reason, as most cars on the road are still ICE vehicles. Many old coal plants and industries have been closed or moved out of town, new emission standards and restrictions have been introduced and enforced.
I am not saying switching to evs will not improve air quality.
@@711colonel China is building 100 new coal paired power plants this year. Those EVs are mostly fueled by coal. China realizes wind mills and solar panels are costly and intermittent power sources.
@@theien5929 Then how you explain the cheap electricity price in China. I will give you the real situation - As of the end of June 2024, in China, the national renewable energy power generation (wind power and photovoltaic combined) installed capacity reached 1.653 billion kilowatts, an increase of 25% year-on-year, accounting for about 53.8% of China's total power generation installed capacity, wind power photovoltaic power generation installed capacity exceeded the size of coal power. There wind turbines every where, almost every city with wind sources, and China's largest photovoltaic power plant is 609 square kilometers, an area close to a Singapore. Many solar power stations are built near former coal mines, where coal mining has stopped and solar energy has replaced it. Many solar plants also use sheep farming as a sideline, as the sheep help graze the grass under the solar panels. There are countless energy generation modes and facilities. Reading your comment, people might think you're still stuck in the 1980s.
@@theien5929Fake news
Invasion is too strong and negative a word... Chinese just produced cars that they think majority of people will want.. they didn't force anyone to buy it
The Beatles invasion, idk if you were around or are familiar w/ that but yeah, not always negative, actually fun sometimes.
Some people called them (Chinese EV companies) invaders because their businesses and their inexpensive EVs are destroying the beloved and trusted fuel car companies (maybe except Toyota that is strongest and still very strong).
@@Joe44944 It was actually called ‘The British Invasion’, and American record companies didn’t like it one bit. Same thing happened with British motorbikes, then Japanese motorbikes and transistor radios, then Japanese cars. Seeing a pattern?
They force their own citizens to buy them, and that is a huge market because they dont have 50 years of privately owned cars to buy used. You can only get license plates in China for an EV. If you want plates for a gas car, you have to win them in a lottery which I believe is around 2% of applicants. So basically you cant drive a gas car. Having said that, I think its a GREAT idea for Chinese citizens being taxed to make buying stuff cheaper in the US.
@@natehill8069 We can't buy Chinese EVs so it doesn't make them cheaper for us. Tariffs keep the competition fat, dumb and happy.
I lived and did business in China from 2004 to 2013. I still travel back there at least 1x per year. The Chinese EVs are amazing. I fear we have already lost the race. It’s a near certainty that the future of transportation is electric, but it’s being used as a wedge issue in the US to benefit the status quo and special interests. In the long run it’s going to do serious harm to the US economy. Tariffs and protectionism are not the answer, and will only make it worse by stifling innovation here.
Exactly
@erric esser: I agree with you. Best for US auto makers to go electric in partnership with Chinese counterparts to achieve a win-win partnership.
Precisely
Totally agree! I own teslas and travel to China every year much like you do. We are very far behind and tariffs will just make it worse. We need to embrace competition and innovate!
Have you heard of Deepseek? The Chatgpt developed by China at lower cost.
Here in Australia, a country with no auto manufacturing industry, we have 65 new EV models arriving in 2025 according to Electric Viking on youtube, by far the majority coming from China.
We must ban and sanction Australia for buying Chinese EVs. Australia should be 52nd state for U.S. USA !!
a fellow electric viking viewer 🤝. Good guy sometimes gets his facts wrong but usually quite accurate
You guys are getting those Xiaomi su7?
@@wangruochuan if they produce a right hand drive version, definitely.
Make no mistake Australia will end up banning them or putting tariffs on them when told to do so by the yanks. We arent an independent country, our government serves the US rather than our own citizens.
We have FOUR Teslas here in our extended family in Oz, two 3s and two Y’s. 🇦🇺 Two are made in China (the Y’s), and the two 3s were built in Fremont.
The Chinese ones are considered by most if not all to be better build quality than Fremont.
Thats because they are the one who supplied the automation plant to Tesla and trained the locals.
@@FutureSystem738 that is well known I have a Tesla that's made in Fremont the panel Gap is so glaring it is laughable
Musk sent his China workers to Fremont teaching how-to in 2022.
Because the China one is the original.
@@alphaomega1969that means the local either are fucking dumb or don’t have thee craftsmanship like the Chinese lol
Before 2015 the world car industry were dominated by the European, US and Japanese cars. But China was not complaining. Double standards, bias and discrimination of the West?
In 2015, China not only complained, but also started effectively banning foreign EV battery competitors and forced all EV OEMs to switch to local Chinese battery makers, namely CATL/BYD, ensure China's market dominance under MIIT's Regulation on Power Standard.
@@tooltalk what a BS.
Source : Western media smearing propaganda
@@tooltalk So tesla sold the Model Y being the number 1 model in China was a blatant lie? HMmmmmm You must be a genius! MORON
@@tooltalk You didn't tell the whole story, car manufacturer can use whatever battery they want, but no government subsidy. And People can still buy foreign EV at a reasonable price such as Tesla Model S/X. Now, what the US doing is imposing 100%+ on Chinese EV, which actually BLOCK EV from China.
@@tooltalk makes anti-China comments every day, obviously you Koreans don't want a bright future, do you?
Indeed, the whole thing about China subsidising its own industries actually make me burst out laughing. EVERY country does it with industries and businesses that are ultra important to them. The oil/gas and petrochemical industries have been subsidised around the world for over a hundred years. The last time I looked at the numbers, globally we were sunsidising those industries to the tune of $5.7T [that "T" is a Trillion] per annum. And every DAY, they make $2.7B [yes "B" is for Billion] in net profit. They spend billions per YEAR. It used to be millions but they ramped up the fear, uncertainty and doubt, commonly known as FUD, because they're starting to lose. But that's fine by them because every day there's an extra delay, there's that net daily profit. How's the air quality and pollution level where you live?
Don't forget Boeing and all American car manufacturers too.
I bought my Tesla model 3 in 2018 in California, and I received $10k USD tax rebate from federal + state, isn’t that subsidy? Such hypocritical bs..
@@EscapedConvict2007 that's freedom money
@@dduay😂😆
I’m not against China funding their auto industry but a tax rebate is different since it only impacts citizens of our country while the other one makes cost lower for Chinese companies to sell everywhere. We do the same thing with the regular auto industry so I don’t see a problem with China doing this. Where I do see a problem is safety because most Chinese EVs don’t do as well in crashes. I like where Xiaomi started if they up the safety to Tesla standards they can be a big competitor world wide until unsupervised FSD gets released.
@@wwecallofduty123 unsupervised fsd. How many years have you been buying that crap for? What did you think of Elon's salutes at the inauguration? Good times, eh?
@@wwecallofduty123
You should check how many Chinese evs have achieved 5 star safety ratings from Euro NCAP. You'll be surprised how many there are. Chinese Zeekr X has been named the safest ev in its class for 2024 by the same agency.
If politicians were serious about cost of living and the environment they would be happy to massive imports from China.
They probably think we are still paying too little for cars.
By the time they meet all the requirements and arrive (minus any tariffs) the Chinesium EVs cost about the same if not a little bit more than their competitors.
True. The only people to be hurt by tariffs are the buyers of cars. The only people to benefit in the short term will be car companies and shareholders, but it’s encouraging them to stay in the past rather than pivoting to keep pace. Elon will be first in the queue to get subsidies from the tariff slush fund trump is setting up (thinly disguised as a “sovereign wealth fund”). We only believe n subsidies when we are giving the, out. All other subsidies are bad….
Here in Australia we have no tariffs on EVs and BYD and MG are everywhere despite all the claims people would never touch a Chinese brand. They are undercutting the Chinese built Teslas by a big margin. Tesla sales here are in decline.
Volvo and Polestar quite successful here also. I would realy like to see Zeekr come here.
@@NeojhunZeekr are now here as are XPeng, Chery and others who I can’t name off the top of of my head but in a couple of years there will be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of these Chinese branded cars here and their brand names will start to become familiar.
I am old enough to remember when Kia and Hyundai were new novelty brands and earlier still when Toyota, Mazda, Nissan etc first arrived and were viewed as cheap foreign badly built cars 😂.
As an oldie (arthritis) Tesla's are devilish to get in and out. The BYDs are higher so are much easier to access. For me they are the only choice and as it happens they are also a great drive.
@@jimgraham6722 Model Y and X are easy to get in and out of and sit higher for easier entry/exit.
@@garydmercer Some people don’t want to pay more for a vehicle that offers a stripped down interior, when there are others that offer more equipment for less cost.
You called it invasion, we called it completition and free market.
China and free market in the same sentence? LOL
@@tooltalk 所以，你为美国是自由市场而自豪？
@@tooltalk Canada and Mexico is very worry now 😜
@ They both know what Trump wants. If they are smart, they would enforce border control and save tariff.
Here in Thailand there are over a dozen Chinese EV companies selling and I see EVs everywhere on the roads. I went to the big Auto show in December to hunt for EVs and they were almost all Chinese. I posted the video about it on my channel here.
@@MikesTropicalTech what Thailand did in regards to Chinese EVs, as they already have a big auto manufacturing industry with big tariffs on imports was to say that for every Chinese made Ev you sell in Thailand, you have to build a factory there and sell locally built ones too. It's quite smart as you get imported cars but also locally made cars. Also GWM bought the GM factory in Thailand when they pulled out of the RHD market completely to focus more on China, I'm wondering how well this is going. GM doesn't sell any cars here in Australia anymore officially, except for some trucks imported from USA and converted to RHD. Most of our other cars sold in Australia especially Japanese brands come from Thailand.
I want more choices for quality EV's. I don't care about the country of origin. I currently drive a Polestar 2. (Made in China)
Polestar is great
If they crash our Auto industry they could own us
@@rp9674if Japan was to then step up to compete with the merger would you prefer one of their vehicles?
You want some external competition so the local giants are forced to compete for better quality vehicles at affordable pricing.
Otherwise sure the govt can subsidize ev purchases for consumers and also bet that the EV manufacturer will just have an excuse to make it cost more.
Wham bam thank you govt for free money.
Govt gets to look good while doing it of course...
the businesses in your country also don't care about the country of origin of their workers. They would like more choices for quality foreigners. I hope you don't mind the external competition. The more foreigners - the lower the wages, so hopefully this will decrease your price and you become more affordable for the companies.
FAIR competition, remember most automakers have plants in the US to make it more fair
I live in São Paulo, every month i see more and more BYD cars on the road here. Their growth is a impressive thing to see.
I think people already believed in that "slave labor news". That will drastically decrease BYD's popularity and sales.
Here in Malaysia too... So far I think best seller is the jaecoo J7
From India, driving a BYD. Great so far!!!
70% tariff?
@@tooltalkSomething like that... unfortunately
@@vittalshenoy just out of curiosity. Are there any competing local EVs? if so, are they cost-competitive?
@@tooltalk yes Tata, Mahindra have come along way in the last two years. Then Hyundai, Suzuki, MG have also released new EV models. Most are cheaper than BYD. So if I were to buy now going for BYD is not an easy decision like how it was two years ago 😊
@@vittalshenoy 名爵不也是中国车？😂
Go back 10 years in London and then walk around London today: air pollution is night and day because now a good 1/4-1/3 of cars you see driving around there are full EVs.
It's not just China where EVs are improving air quality. We should be embracing any cheap options for the health of citizens rather than protecting slow-to-adapt, uncompetitive automakers to maintain profits.
Here in Australia the Chinese EV manufacturers have sparked a price war. Some models are selling for less than $20K US. Even the Tesla Model 3 rival, the BYD Seal, starts at $22K. Price parity with ICE has been reached if not exceeded. Great for consumers.
Here in the UK, Vauxhall (would be Holden or Opel I guess) now sell a car that is exactly the same to buy, EV or ICE. Parity.
How low can a BYD Dolphin the premium fast charging model reach in Australian $ ?
The cost of oil extraction per barrel in Saudi is only $5.4 compared to US oil which is $51. Because most of the oil reserves in Saudi is conventional reserves. And most US oil is shale oil. If it's not for US government subsidies there wouldn't be any oil produced in USA due the higher costs.
Plus, the country receives no real benefit to the general population except the jobs. Tax money from workers is given away to and not collected on profits. It's nuts. We should at least get some free gasoline.
@breft3416
Also your gas price is subsidized by the tax payer.
If it wasn't you would be paying around 15 bucks a gallon not the 3 - 5ish dollars you pay now.
The true cost of oil production and cost is hidden
That's the truth, but much easier to say drill baby drill
@@breft3416 Once govt. intervention/disruption/corruption of the market is accepted the economy is doomed. It's socialism.
Russia only $11,6
The 7 trillion subsidies for fossil fuel is an atrocious crime to humankind. Everybody enabling those subsidies, belongs in prison.
I thought he said 17 trillion....but I could be wrong
You know we'd lose most of humanity without fossil fuels right?
@@mpmpm absolutely!
@jebes909090 Using fossil fuels to generate electricity is more efficient and less polluting than internal combustion engines
I also drive a Chinese-built Polestar 2. Bought in 2022 and actually got the $7500 tax credit on it. I feel it’s much better built than our Tesla M3P. Although the Tesla does have its advantages, I understand how Chinese vehicles are a threat to US automakers.
The minister Wan Gang is also a trained engineer with a PhD in engineering and an engineering career. This guy knew what he was doing. And you see this pattern across the Chinese leadership -- China is literally led by engineers, not lawyers. They innovate and they build, while the Chinese culture itself promotes the entrepreneurial spirit. That largely explains China's meteoric rise today. Even President Xi has a chemical engineering background.
All Chinese civil servants have to pass exams, and basically all cadres have worked their way up from the grassroots level. It is impossible for them to become leaders without any governing experience.
The Chinese have a saying, "If you study math, physics, and chemistry well, you won't fear traveling anywhere in the world." 学好数理化，走遍天下都不怕
most importantly, Chinese government officials are not allow to take campaign money from private firms.
I just spent the holidays in Australia, I’m from the US, and I saw scores of Chinese EV’s. They have some good looking vehicles.
Hell I took a short hop to the British Virgin Islands on a cruise recently, and was surprised to see some Chinese Haval and Changan vehicles on the island. And those were sort of mediocre ICE vehicles. When the world outside of China starts transitioning to EVs and plug in hybrids in earnest, the Chinese carmakers are going to be ready, especially in the global south nations who won't be able to afford the few high priced EVs mostly made by western automakers.
The only western auto-manufacturer that stands a chance against the rise of the Chinese EV is Tesla. And even Tesla relies on BYD batteries and other Chinese-made batteries for some of its cars.
Aptera is quite unique, innovative in efficiency. It is so far ahead it is having trouble getting funded, except by potential owners.
And government subsidies…don’t forget we’re subsidising Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink, and oil and gas companies. And didn’t we already bail out the car, banking and mortgage companies?
Tesla relies on its Shanghai Gigafactory and the Chinese market.
Best Tesla is Shanghainese.
…. In the US. Looking at the trends in the market, yes Tesla is very competitive but through lack of investment they are now being matched by European legacy auto brands such as BMW and Renault who also have better supply chain management and a better range of smaller models.
Yes VW and Stellantis have had issues catching up but the next gen of European EVs is really going to be competitive. The problem in the US is that manufacturers became obsessed with margins over building a customer base so they (including Tesla) are going to be left behind by smaller, fun and practical competitors designed in Europe and Japan and possibly built in the US.
If the Chinese government wants to contribute $10000 to my next SUV, why am I saying no?
@@Peizxcv Because uncle sam said so.
ask for $10000 in cash, not a Chinese SUV.
@@tooltalk
If you need an SUV, 10k cash won't be enough to buy any kind , Chinese or not. So the best deal out is still a Chinese SUV.
Actually if you have seen a Buick Envision, Lincoln Nautilus or Volvo S90 on the US roads those are all built in China.
Polestar 2!
CATL's Skateboard uses the best batteries commercially available and has a Million Mile Warranty. I would absolutely buy a car based on this standardized platform. Ounce they update to axial-flux motors it will be very hard to catch them. It's impossible to argue that they are the world leader in batteries at this time.
I own a Chinese EV , well pleased with the last three years of ownership and will be buying a new one later this year 😊 I live in the UK 👍
Whats happening in the auto industry is textbook first-mover, distruptor, that was taught in my MBA courses.
New innovator comes into the market and offers a compelling product. Incumbents slow to react. New entrant eats their lunch.
Yep, and the thing that people (in the west) missed is that China began this journey 25 years ago
No it is not. Tesla was the first mover of any significance. What China is doing defies economic theory as they play by their own rules subsidising at a level the world has never seen before. The kicker is they are brilliant at it and we in the west have no clue how to react. And by the way this is not the first time. Look at how they destroyed the European photovoltaic industry doing exactly the same thing. Copy European technology, improve and scale it in record time through government subsidies, undercut the market launching a wide range of products in equal quality but 30 % cheaper worldwide. And low and behold, it worked. We are way too naive and bureaucratic to compete.
It's text book history, I think. There were 200+ auto manufacturers in 1908, 44 in 1929, 3 when I grew up in the 50s and 60s and shrinking. This is going on in China and will probably have a similar market and technological shake out. Going like we are in the US, it won't be long til we're horse and buggying again.
@@breft3416 Full on amish ?
@@BenSullinsOfficial In the late '70s China silently secretly shifted from communism to capitalism, private ownership until it is more capitalist that the US Empire.
Every country around the world has subsidized their automotive industry. Including America, Canada, Germany just to name a few.. Even Australia was subsidizing its automotive industry, right up until there wasn't one.
The difference is that Western subsidies were given to shareholders.
Last major car company to close production plant in Australia was Toyota in 2017.
I'll admit I don't know much about the Canadian auto industry, but I suppose it's not surprising that it's subsidized.
“I lost the race, therefore the winner cheated.”
Eurpoean car manufacturers were making large fortunes in China until a few years ago when their sales started to fall as the Chinese started buying their own EVs. Being the worlds largest car market this spells significant loss of profits for these car manufacturers. As it is the largest car market in the world (1 in 3 cars sold globally) China will be ok but other car manufacturers are not so fortunate
I've seen very few people who go back to ICE vehicles after they start driving EVs these days, it's just..... better for daily use now since we are now in the walking stages in the US, the problem is China has been running and sprinting while we've been holding on to dear old money and profit seeking with almost no innovation so of course we are losing, and I don't like it one bit. That's what happens when lobbying is legal in our country.
When will the American people wake up and take back the power from our politicians? Politicians divide the people so they can have all the power in the end. Vote for the people that can articulate a good policy for the country.
Western govs : Rules for thee but not for me
In the US we have a monopoly of low quality American car manufacturers. I refuse to buy a new American truck for $80,000, I want BYD. For now, I drive 20 years old truck.
I currently live in Thailand and Chinese EVs are all over and are really nice. BYD is the top seller, but many other brands here also. Tesla sells the Chinese Model Y and Model 3 right hand drive here also but are more expensive than the Chinese brands.
What I saw in past news was that China is not just subsidizing to compete better, but doing it at a level to dominate the market. It's being compared to what China did with solar panels, where now 90% of solar panels come from China. If the same thing happened to the auto industry, it would be a huge number of jobs lost in the US.
That wasn't smog, that was sand particles that was being blown in from the deserts. it used to happen about 60 times a year but due to their desert reforestation projects, it only happens 3 or 4 times a year now.
regardless of what you call it, western media and vloggers will still to their narrative.
@@freetorobandloot It is to inform those uninformed. If they don't believe it, they can fact check it anytime instantly with a search engine. If they refuse to believe it, they probably have been brainwashed that they prefer to thinking the worst of China.
Smog was still pretty bad. They had folks with shop vacs accumulating bricks worth of crap off the air on the daily. As EV adoption as well as mass transit construction and use ramped up, the air cleaned up pretty well.
Just asking, how much us and Europe ev received subsidizes? You can be certain that the amounts are far bigger than Chinese EV by any measures.
Well, start with the $7,500 subsidies…and still the EV market is limited to under 15%.
China has already spent over $230+B in EV subsidies since 2009.. China also spends over $270+B every year in fossile fuel subsidies to support cheap energy for their local industry and overcapacity.
@@tooltalk why do you continue to repeat this lie. That number includes broad energy subsidies.
@@NoiserToo don’t forget carbon credit markets that the automakers have to trade in.
@@johnsullivan8673 why do you continue to lie about the fact that industry is the largest user of fossile fuel consumption?
What government doesn’t subsidize
We don't have Chinese EV import tariffs in Australia to protect our domestic car manufacturing...
Australia car manufacturing
Once upon a time, Holden was a thing.
Thanks for highlighting (again) how massive the oil and gas subsidies are here in comparison to the paltry EV credits.
Thanks!
Im here for the growing market of safe EVs. Thats all i care about, safe EVs.
Do you think ice cars are safer ???
@DrTofutybeast absolutely not by safety test crash rating compared to a model Y or Model 3.
@austingirdner92 we're only a few percent of the global population, and the global majority drives slower safer speeds that also allow for more affordable EV options for more people, including rural areas.
We already have safe EV. Self driving car is safer than human. We just need to accept this fact.
@@thecsucihai Let's be honest here ... self driving technology can be part of any kind of drive train. EV does not equal self driving. Most EVs don't have self driving and even the ones that do remain rather limited and are not allowed to drive without a human being on hand.
I’ve seen videos of BYDs and other Chinese EVs. All of them look like amazing cars. I wish we could get them here in the US.
In the past two years, the Chinese government has stopped subsidizing electric vehicles. The reason why Chinese people buy electric vehicles is that electricity can save one-fifth to one-tenth of gasoline. This is very important because it is not a matter of protecting the environment, but a matter of technological progress. So why don't Westerners buy electric vehicles? One of the main reasons is that electric vehicles are too expensive here.
The CCP has effectively banned the registration of ICE vehicles, thus forcing citizens into EVs.
This is also untrue. China's EV subsidies have been around 2009; extended/renewed every 2-4 years. The last "direct purchase subsidies" ended in Jan 2023, but was extended in June 2023 as tax credit for another 4 years, for an estimate budget of $72B. China also throws in additional provisional subsidies as they see fit: eg, ICE-toEV conversion subsidies of 2,000 yuan between May 2024 and Dec 2024 to prop up slowing EV sales.
There's also the matter of getting free license plates and being able to drive every day of the week.
@@Dudofall This situation only happens in China's big cities. The Chinese government does not put money in, so it is not called a subsidy.
@@DaWang-yb5ei It may not count as a subsidy, but it’s definitely an incentive. Also, the Guangdong area, home to massive cities like Shenzen and Guangzhou, is where most cars are registered. I’m sure there are some cars in less populous areas, but large cities undeniably affect car-buying habits in the country.
If we don’t compete, we’re doomed in the long run regardless. At least in some limited capacity Americans should be exposed to Chinese tech and products because that will inspire innovation. This is going to cause generational decay. If American kids today get exposed to Chinese tech, they are more likely to develop the technologies of the future to compete with the Chinese products of today. Instead we’re literally stuck with the exact same iphone every single year. We can’t even get China’s superior drones… American companies are studying Chinese products while the general public doesn’t . That’s hundreds of millions of people not in on the competition. Incredibly foolish. Ironically this is how China fell behind the world by closing themselves off from the rest of the world.
It’s a joke, all countries subsidies all their own industries lol 😂 thank you for picking up on this too.
Sure, the key word is "own industries." You can't however subsidize to undercut foreign competitors or favor local over foreign.
@ that’s exactly why they do it. Do you think when the chip act was signed it was just for the home market? No it was to make chips in its own country, so making them cheaper as they had been subsidised by a grant to help build a factory. It’s exactly the same. Only thing is China government owns part of every company in China it’s the way the country is set up. Why do you think it is so much more developed and progressing faster than most western countries.
Give us cheap and basic daily commute EV that match the price of Chinese EVs, and I will be OK to ban whoever they want. But if the ban is just to keep EVs as luxury vehicles and average car price at $60k ☹️
Eventually, someone can probably say “That guy just helped an old lady!” with a disgusted tone and people will start feeling that helping an old lady out is somehow a crime. 😂
Competition is good for consumers. While US might have very few Chinese EVs . I think at least polestar has quite a few units sold? Those are Chinese even if some Swedish design is part of the DNA.
You should also see all the chinese people complaining about their EV.
Thank you so much for the well-balanced and insightful video. I truly enjoyed it and appreciate the effort put into making it. Keep up the excellent work!
so is Ford CEO paying 100% tariff on his imported EV?
Your factual clarity is remarkable and so easy to watch and understand. Keeping it factual and straight forward is the way to do it. Love your channel, smart guy, intelligent channel. Keep up the good work.
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Ditto.
One of the best videos by Ben, every once in a while he puts out a mind-blowing video. This one is like that. Perspective is important.
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Over 10 years ago China’s govt figured that they will never catchup to Western ICE technology with all its Emissions regulations imposed by the Western countries, but they knew that BEVs don’t have tailpipes and Pollution be @ the Source of generation or non if from renewable sources like Solar which they already dominate.
EV was suggested 30-40 years ago, check who is Quan Xueshen
Remember what the US did to Japanese cars and semiconductors? That was how they contained Japan raise.
Just spent three weeks holiday in Marocko and was thriving up and Dow all of the country and on every rest place on the motorway, lots of them there was a shop a restaurant toilets prayer area, play are for kids and electric charger. Didn’t see many electric cars but when people want and can afford them the infrastructure structure is there. The motorways costed a fee but boy there was smooth and in super condition and as they go over mountains there was sand pockets to halt you if the brakes gets overheated. There was employed garbage collectors walking on the side of road so it was spotless. Very impressive. North Africa is on its way to electric cars too. Renault/Dacia build cars in Marocko.
One problem with this. You say the Shenzhen bus fleet was converted in 2009. When Tesla had the Roadster 1. That's not correct. It was converted between 2016 ad 2018. It takes about a minute to check that out.
Great coverage. We have BYD trucks and buses here in the USA
Here in Australia, we have no restrictions on Chinese EV imports, and in fact the Chinese take advantage of zero tariffs on EV's and of various state and federal EV incentives. Why the difference between Australian and US policy? Because we no longer have an automotive industry to protect. Companies such as GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and Mitsubishi, which all had factories here, pulled out of Australia, leaving us with no option but to import all of our cars. Of course, Tesla also takes advantage of this situation, by importing their Chinese-built EV's into Australia, and they have taken the top end of the EV market, but their sales have slumped over the last year, as the native Chinese brands have started to undercut them with more affordable EV's.
Perhaps there is a message here for GM and Ford: if you want to compete with the Chinese EV's, you need to emulate Tesla, but perhaps you also need to ramp up sales of more affordable EV models such as the Chevrolet Bolt (which incidentally was designed in Australia when GM's Holden branch still had a design studio, look it up).
Likewise, Tesla needs to move away from Elon's obsession with FSD and just give the people what they want, an affordable Tesla. Tesla could then claim to have completed their mission which was to start with an expensive model and then just work their way down progressively to more affordable models.
I believe the sweet spot would be a Model Z, the ultimate affordable EV, smaller than the Y, but in that same SUV shape, but more of a compact SUV like a Hyundai Kona, or the Chinese equivalent would be the BYD Atto 3 or MG ZS, both of which have sold really well in Australia. If it was built using the unboxed method, it could be cheaper, but also more desirable than the smaller hatchback type EV's which tend to have more limited range and are also less useful as they have less space.
That Pri©k Elon can go Jump, and as an Australian my next EV will definitely be Chinese.
Yes the model Z. Like with a big white Z on the side of each car door. You can take them straight to the battlefield in Ukraine. I think master manipulator and racist bigot Musk wouldn't mind. He's friends with Trump who is a buddy to Putler. What can go wrong?
@àtonline the Australian take advantage of affordable good quality EV from China instead of paying double for Tesla, the days of compete against China is over
No more invading colonized and plundering, exploiting and slave labor by white Europeans.
Those are the reasons the West decline, back then they were stealing from countries around the world
There is a lot of interest in FSD but not for the reason Elon thinks. Older and disabled people would love it (including me in a few years).
>> Why the difference between Australian and US policy?
Plenty of Chinese vehicles in Australia both gasoline and electric.
It's why the USA does not what a high speed rail network...it would be a death knell for the US Car industry.
Of the 7 trillions in fossils fuel subsidies, only 1.3tr is explicit subsidies (18%) in the form of direct payments or tax breaks for consumer and producers. And this is because lots of governments in the world supported consumers from high energy prices caused by the war in Ukraine and Russia and all the sanctions imposed on cheap Russian oil and gas.
The remaining 5.7 trillion (82%) are implicit subsidies… implicit means meaning they are not directly paid by governments but they take the form of undercharging for the environmental and health costs of fossil fuels, such as the damage caused by air pollution and climate change. It’s whole science how one estimates these implicit subsidies and how they apportioned across the whole economy not just the passenger cars…
Big question… why we compare fossil fuels which is energy source to an EV car? …It’s better to compare ICE car vs EV car subsidies or even better “ fossil fuel VS electricity subsidies “ which are both energy sources. As far as I know electricity in the west is majority produced from fossil fuels which are subsidised…..
Subsidizing the car manufactury is not at all the same as subsidizing oil extraction. One is a raw material desired the world over at the lowest price possible; the other is a highly desired value-added high-tech industry. One makes the country poor over time; the other is much more sustainable and beneficial to the local economy. That is why all countries love value-added high-tech industries. This is also why there are many trade wars fought over it, and why it heavily features in trade agreements.
Most countries subsidize their local industries. There is big money and powerful people involved in the polluting fossil fuel industry.
oil is heavily subsidized here in the U.S. If we took away all subsidies, our price of gas per gallon would be $10 per gallon or higher. Oil production is filthy, expensive and a heavily polluting process. Ice vehicles are so much more complex and expensive to maintain.
@garydmercer but they go vroom vroom. That's basically the argument against EVs.
No problem with local subsidies. China's problem is gov't subsidies to undercut foreign competitors or favor local or foreign.
China wants to buy the closed VW car plants in Germany to produce their own EV vehicles.
Which poses an interesting conundrum for Berlin.
They have no problem with Chinese made gas powered cars. People forget that nearly all of the small cars of GM and Buick are Chinese based cars. Then there is Volvo etc.
Because EVs are "very digital" cars so it maybe can spy, and the US doesn't trust China.
Amazing clarity on tariffs and subsidies, especially in the EV sector. People need this to combat misinformation by politicians and business leaders. Definitely sharing on Facebook
Hi Ben. This is an awesome video! Thank you for your continued excellent content. Cheers
Nissan was not late to the EV game, I think they were actually one of the first to create mass-market affordable-ish EVs ... but something went wrong there apparently. Honda was late and not a surprise they are in trouble
Nissan stopped innovating after the leaf is the problem, just now they're coming out with new EVs and the Leaf itself hasn't changed much since launch. Probably has something to do with their CEO situation
They should have made the next EV much sooner than the Ariya, but the design of the Leaf did get overhauled in 2018/2019. I miss the personality it used to have...
Oil is like diamonds which are artificially inflated. VW backed out of a deal with BYD.
The companies in USA can create cheap EVs, but they are worried about their gas vehicles so they make both expensive. You can get an electric car in China for $10 000. Also Tesla buys their good batteries from China.
All EV OEMs are required to source EV batteries from local suppliers, namely CATL/BYD, to do business in China and receive subsidies since 2015. Tesla's Long Range models didn't receive any until 2021.
There are currently four models for sale in the United States that are made in China. The Lincoln Nautilus crossover is built at the Changan Hangzhou Assembly Plant. The Buick Envision crossover is also built in China through a joint venture with General Motors and the Chinese state-owned automaker SAIC.
Also most MG's sold in the US are China built.
I love all of Ben’s content. This one was especially good
Unfortunately, here in the United States half of our population has been captured by Internet rabbit holes and doesn’t believe any of the facts that Ben just laid out. The United States will cling to their gas guzzling SUVs and pick up trucks until Ford and GM eventually go out of business.
American politicians know they can not win Chinese EV, so they play dirty games on 100% tariffs. Poor American car buyers must pay more than 200% price to buy one Chinese EV.
Well subsidizing domestic company is much better than paying for military bases around the world.
My view is tariffs can help in the short term but are not a long term solution. Putting in place a tariff that gradually sunsets provides near term help as the industry transitions. For example a 50% tariff that gradually decreases over 5-10 years. It is the same for subsidies. Gradually reduce the subsidy over a period of years. I also feel the same way about legislation. No legislation should be permanent. Let it expire. If it is needed it can be reauthorized.
As a Canadian, I don’t want a USA made car EVEN if Chinese made in America.
lol you might be a part of USA soon.
Why not? You've given no context.
@@vincewhite5087 The slave is rejecting the master?
There are some truly bad ass chinese electric vehicles . If they are able to produce them cheaper , i say let them in . The same thing happened in the 80s with Japanese cars . It forced innovation through increased competition
I enjoy your perspective on these topics.
9:58 Wan Gang was my professor! He worked for Audi in Germany before the Chinese government invited him back to China in 2000. He became the head of the College of Automotive Studies in Tongji University, then the minister of science and technology in central government. He singlehandedly planned for China’s EV industry. I am no fan of the CCP to put it mildly, but I have to give them the credit on this.
Amazing!
@BenSullinsOfficial To add, Wan Gang is not a member of the Communist Party. He serves as the Minister of Science and Technology in China. There are many important officials in China who are not members of the Communist Party. China is not a "one-party dictatorship" in the actual sense. The Western world's understanding of China is too shallow. This This is the reason why the West failed. Sun Tzu said: Know yourself and the enemy and you will be victorious in every battle. Westerners will pay the price for their arrogance
@ 说你胖你还喘上了。搁这骗傻老外呢。万钢的权力并不来源于人民的选举授权，而是来自中共的任命，中共想给就给，不想给就不给，归根结底还是一党独裁。你要么就主张独裁就是好的，要么主张中共不是独裁，你不能既要又要，这两件事是不能同时成立的。
@@Ginyiwei 说你胖你还喘上了。搁这骗傻老外呢。万钢的权力并不来源于人民的选举授权，而是来自中共的任命，中共想给就给，不想给就不给，归根结底还是一党独裁。你要么就主张独裁就是好的，要么主张中共不是独裁，你不能既要又要，这两件事是不能同时成立的。
@@BenSullinsOfficial Please ignore that braindead CCP apologist. He doesn't speak for all of us.
THE BIG THREE WOULD BE DEAD IN THE WATER 50 YEARS AGO IF IT WERN'T FOR TAX PAYERS BAILING THEM TO THE TUNE OF TENS OF BILLIONS EACH TIME . WE CAN'T AFFORD 80 PLUS GRAND FOR A CAR OR TRUCK 'SO AN AFFORDABLE AUTO SOUNDS GREAT NO MATTER WHO BUILDS IT AS LONG AS IT IS RELIABLE AND NOT A MONEY PIT OR PAPER WEIGHT . BRING THE CHINESE EV'S AND LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE IF THEY WANT THEM . WE HAVE EVERYTHING MADE CNINESE ANYHOW .
I’ve actually seen a BYD on the 405 heading south towards San Diego. I already knew what it was as I have seen them in Canada, but many people were following it taking pictures.
There is BYD in Canada? Not bus! Where, I wanna know.
@ I saw some driving in Richmond and Surrey BC. Not too many but since I have been keeping up with the EV market, I knew what the cars were already. I think Canada is testing them.
I think Ben needs to update his video on the VW “plans” to close German plants. This was reported as being part of discussions with unions regarding how they could become more competitive against imports. It was basically if the unions didn’t agree a way forward the plants may have to close and production moved abroad. Following agreement with the unions those plants, as far as reports from Germany have stated, are not being closed. One VW plant in Belgium is being closed that manufacturers the Audi Q8 but that’s for different reasons mainly it’s not large enough and restricted due to its location. All of this is not to say that some plants that produce ICE vehicles may have to close if they cannot be reworked economically to produce EVs and new plants built.
I remember Trump's tariffs in his his first term....was a huge disaster to farmers selling their products overseas...they had to be reimbursed with hundreds of billions of $$.
You will see a repeat on a larger scale.
@@ctuna2011
I'm afraid you're correct.
The Ca gas tax is currently 59.6 cents per gallon. Assuming an ICE gets 25 mpg, each 100 miles driven $2.38 is collected - 2.38 cents per mile. Ca will start to require state tax odometers be installed in EV's so the tax can be collected.
Cars already have odometers. All the government has to supply is a person to record and enter the number
@@martshearer498 - too many cars to do it manually - will have to be wireless transmission.
@@Bill1516 Many states require annual emissions or safety inspections. When my state used to require these, the odometer reading and vin were written on the inspection sticker. Today, one person could easily key that into a tablet connected to a database.
Yep, either the mileage will be transmitted one way or another, which includes a fixed camera on the odometer, according to California's pilot program. It's similar to the federal government's EV mileage tax fee pilot program that was passed in the infrastructure bill. So CA residents, at some point, will receive 2 annual mileage tax bills.
I live in San Antonio Texas and say a BYD EV here a few weeks ago. Very weird it is here. Thanks. Good video!!
Always preach, but never practice what they preach.
There is also an "unsaid" issue. ICE cars use a large number of components, the component manufaacturers are going broke too. This is a problem because the component manufaccturers build bits and pieces for the military, without the component manufacturers, countries cant field armies so the gov'ts will protect industries at all costs including reversing ev mandates.
You just gained a subscriber my friend!
Same story, or protectionism in Brazil. But at least there will be a BYD and GWM factory. You nailed it! 🤛
BYD's slave contracts sent back home.
One of the most important issues with subsidies is the question of how easily production could shift to different companies and different countries if the situation changes. Most manufacturing involves simple enough items that it is relatively easy for manufacturing to move around to wherever makes the most sense based on economic conditions at a given time. But there are a few industries such as mass-market motor vehicles, high-end microprocessor production, and large airplanes where the necessary investment in areas such as research, development, manufacturing facilities, and establishing supply chains is so enormous that anyone trying to start a new company is at a gigantic disadvantage against established companies. Countries with strong industries in such areas have strong vested interests in protecting their industries against subsidized competition because of the enormous obstacles against replacing or rebuilding the domestic producers if subsidized competition kills or cripples them and then the conditions that made buying subsidized imports advantageous change.
I used to travel via air through the area regularly. You can definitely see the difference. Yet the Philippines is so much worse.
What do you mean about the Philippines? There are many Chinese car brands even before 2020. The BYD though started around 2021/22. But when I see a BYD car, especially the Sealion, it is among the best in design. I used to admire BMW and Merck. But whenever I see a BYD car, its design aura is more premium even though it is many times affordable than a BMW. Geely, Chery, Chang'an and BYD are getting more popular here.
Great to hear you bring this topic! No way we would restrict oil imports even though heavily subsidized - looking at you, Canada tar sands oil!
I believe we already have commercial Chinese EVs like buses. So, they’re already here, just not for us individually. I would love to try that Xiaomi SU7 car!
This latest commentary was your best yet. Thank you!!😊😊😊
Polestar 2 was built in China previously, and is a great vehicle.
Still built in China
...and Polestar is owned by Geely.
As are Volvo and Lotus and other brands.
Agree, but I don't count it as a affordable vehicle
BYD isn't even considering selling in the US market at this time.
Of course, it is.. The CCP filed no fewer than 4 WTO complaints last year to make sure BYD gets access to the world's auto markets.