Hey Joel, I run my mature ewes outside year around here in The Finger Lakes region of NY State. It is Christmas eve and they are out grazing aftermath on a hayfield. It was -6 F yesterday morning, Frozen ground is your friend. When I run out of grass, hay is unrolled in paddocks that need improvement. If sheep have a fleece on them, can get out of the wind, and are adapted to the environment they are much better off not confined in a building. I use portable windbreaks if the ewes are in an area that has no natural wind protection. The animals stay cleaner and better insulated without the expense of bedding and manure hauling and spreading. The outside air is better for them than in a barn with often less than ideal ventilation. Water is available to them every day using frost free hydrants. If we have an ice storm, I bring in the ewes and let them stand under cover in our handling facility but they can't live there. Keeping the mob moving and using your better drained areas strategically goes a long way to minimize pugging. When greenup starts here about April 1st I move my ewes to a dry lot. Otherwise they will nip off new green grass sprouts as quick as they emerge and ignore hay while losing weight during the critical last 1/3 of gestation. Dry lotting the ewes in early spring allows my paddocks to get a head start before I begin grazing with daily or more frequent moves. While the welfare of the animals is a primary consideration, the economics and necessity of housing is questionable for many operations. I find this video disturbing. With your mainstream notoriety and new USDA position, animal activists will be citing your views and creating trouble for regenerative livestock operations. What makes sense for your operation doesn't necessarily apply to many of the rest of us. I hope you will make that clear in an edit to this video.
He is talking about his own method at his place and so the point of context is subliminally addressed. I didn't hear him say anywhere that viewers must do this and people watching that have a grasp and interest in regenerative ag will understand and appreciate his point that pastured livestock practitioners are in danger of getting themselves into a locked paradigm where no housing is acceptable ever in any circumstance yourself ignoring the context issue that you are complaining about.
@georgeheller2281 it's some valid reasons for housing or shelter I didn't take it to mean it was mandatory george despite the title. I've tried to get water to outdoor pigs in fields in the middle of a freezing January and I can tell you it was no fun for me or the pigs.
This is the exact thing that led to the way animals are raised. Farmers wanted to improve the way animals were raised and make the job easier to manage. Money has turned it into a practice that no longer centers around the animals best well being. And that's consumer demand for cheap food when I say money because that's what drove the market!
As our ministry just bought a Barndominium and 7 acres in NW GA, and I'm currently turning our garden for its 1st use, this video was very timely. Thanks Joel!
Interesting! I tend to agree with your reasons but know that many ranchers in northern Canada (e.g, my nephew in the far north of British Columbia) and Steve Kenyon in Northern Alberta (I believe that you and Steve have spoken at the same conferences) keep their cattle outside all winter. The ground is frozen and, after they have cleaned up any winter pasture, the cattle consume the large round bales of hay that have been strategically placed in pastures where the ranchers want to see the soil enriched. The ranchers argue that the cattle handle the cold well (it can get as cold as -40 F degrees) and experience less sickness than they would if inside. Also, I know that Greg Judy keeps his cattle outside all winter in Missouri where the soil likely goes through a number of freeze and thaw cycles in the winter. I am not sure what sorts of problems he has with pugging.
If I remember correctly, Greg Judy attributes the lack of pugging to the lower weight of his cattle, high pasture coverage of mature grasses with strong root systems, and frequent rotations. His bulls top out around 1100-1200 and his cows around 900, so that is a lot less weight on each hoof than the standard angus. I too believe that if cattle require shelter in the winter there is a problem with the breed or the management. Developing livestock that are suited to your climate and managing them well is an important cornerstone of sustainable farming.
Was wondering how most ranchers would house all their 100 head of cattle in the winter. If bad storms come here in NM then I have then wind blocks along with round bales.
All good and valid points. Winter for us here in Missouri means spot seeding pastures and letting them ready themselves for spring growth. We keep the few steers in our dry lot and loafing shed to manage all the things he you discussed. Also gives us a good way to build the annual compost pile area.
I live just outside of Winnipeg, MB which is zone 3a which gets down to -40F. Only -18F now lol. I built a 32 by 16 foot deep winter greenhouse with a 14 ft pond 4 ft deep with a waterfall for my 5 ducks and 4 chickens. It’s my first year with the flock I hatched this past spring and fall. The greenhouse is attached to the east side of a 26 x 16 foot garage where the chickens (not ducks anymore!) have 10 feet of indoor coop space. After the Indian runner ducks trampled and pecked to death one of my Hmong chicks at 9 weeks old, then swallowed whole a Polish Tollbunt chick at 11 weeks old, I decided to not allow the ducks “inside”. Just a heads up on co-habitating chicks with predatory and territorial runner ducks lol.
I’ve been sitting here bored anticipating our first year of rotational grazing. Excellent point that I should be using this time as a "launch pad ". Thank you Joel AND crew for your hardwork and diligence in teaching the neophytes such as myself. Merry Christmas and God Bless!
I really only noticed a few pigs and a greenhouse full of chickens in the video. Carbonaceous Diaper is a great concept. $400 is allot to spend on a class tho.
I know every farm is different. Like Greg Judy's farm, you've mentioned him, he grazes all winter, with some hay sometimes, without barns and his cattle get along great, sometimes even gaining weight in winter. I've heard you say you run as many as 1000 head of cattle. Do you really have enough barns to house that many cattle? God bless you and The Poly face family.
I communicated with a former Polyface Farm employee today who said that his beef cattle stay outside at multiple locations. Only swine and poultry are housed. I think The Lunatic Farmer is full of it.
Good video, I think people don't realize how nice it is for animals to have shelter. We live in Arizona where the weather is very agreeable. Despite the great weather we put in a three sided shed with a roof. The horses love it and use it every day. We now have shelters for all of our animals.
Most people don’t know how inhospitable a barn is for cattle. If you’re moving your cattle to minimize pugging and using the placement of feed to focus fertility placement on areas that need it, cattle should be comfortable to very low temperatures. Bringing smaller livestock in can make sense but cattle are designed to survive outside in the cold.
This is where I differ from Joel. My sheep will live outside all winter. Any animal that can't handle the weather doesn't belong in my program. My sheep are currently munching hay in a brushy area Im converting to pasture. Im a bit more like Greg Judy in that regard. Joel is a little more "old-school" in his approach.
But but but .... did the buffalo have a shed? I want to see the Netflix winter livestock rumble .... One round, Joel vs Greg Judy. Who will win? Sorry Joel, but the barn full of poo seems like an idea you talk yourself into, keeping the herd out on the grass moving makes more sense unless you're talking dairy. Rumble!!!!
@Marilou-g5t Right, I really meant for feeding and milking. I grew up in Virginia north of Polyface and it is not a severe cold region. Rare for snow to hang around for extended periods.
@@Getawaymoments feeding grain grows hooves and horns. Much better nutrients in meat when adaptively graized on multispecies paddocks. See Stefan Van Vliet's nutrient testing and Peter Byck's reporting of various studies.
Perhaps he should have explained his setup more thoroughly. The shelter he houses his cows in in the winter is a giant open air shed loaded with several feet of dry wood chips, which readily soak up the manure and urine. You could have simply stated that this particular system isn’t for you and that would have been fine, but to say the video is disturbing and that it will generate for him extra attention from people who oppose him on every issue already is silly. He has proven his methods are viable over the past several decades
Hey Scotty, maybe Joel should have titled the video something like, "How we winter livestock at Polyface Farm" instead of "Why you need winter housing at your pastured farm"? Salatin is losing a lot of regenerative grazing followers over this video.
Well, thats a dumb take. What is missing here is context and motivation. Salatin wants the soil for compost and uses wood chips to keep things sanitary. It works. For him. There is no end all be all in this business.
Hey Joel,
I run my mature ewes outside year around here in The Finger Lakes region of NY State. It is Christmas eve and they are out grazing aftermath on a hayfield. It was -6 F yesterday morning, Frozen ground is your friend. When I run out of grass, hay is unrolled in paddocks that need improvement. If sheep have a fleece on them, can get out of the wind, and are adapted to the environment they are much better off not confined in a building. I use portable windbreaks if the ewes are in an area that has no natural wind protection. The animals stay cleaner and better insulated without the expense of bedding and manure hauling and spreading. The outside air is better for them than in a barn with often less than ideal ventilation. Water is available to them every day using frost free hydrants. If we have an ice storm, I bring in the ewes and let them stand under cover in our handling facility but they can't live there. Keeping the mob moving and using your better drained areas strategically goes a long way to minimize pugging. When greenup starts here about April 1st I move my ewes to a dry lot. Otherwise they will nip off new green grass sprouts as quick as they emerge and ignore hay while losing weight during the critical last 1/3 of gestation. Dry lotting the ewes in early spring allows my paddocks to get a head start before I begin grazing with daily or more frequent moves. While the welfare of the animals is a primary consideration, the economics and necessity of housing is questionable for many operations. I find this video disturbing. With your mainstream notoriety and new USDA position, animal activists will be citing your views and creating trouble for regenerative livestock operations. What makes sense for your operation doesn't necessarily apply to many of the rest of us. I hope you will make that clear in an edit to this video.
I agree 💯, he really over looked the soil health principle called, Context! Pretty disappointed with this video.
@@georgeheller2281well said!
He is talking about his own method at his place and so the point of context is subliminally addressed. I didn't hear him say anywhere that viewers must do this and people watching that have a grasp and interest in regenerative ag will understand and appreciate his point that pastured livestock practitioners are in danger of getting themselves into a locked paradigm where no housing is acceptable ever in any circumstance yourself ignoring the context issue that you are complaining about.
@tomvalentine9985 the title of the video is , "why you need winter housing for your pastured farm" sounds alot like telling others what is needed.
@georgeheller2281 it's some valid reasons for housing or shelter I didn't take it to mean it was mandatory george despite the title. I've tried to get water to outdoor pigs in fields in the middle of a freezing January and I can tell you it was no fun for me or the pigs.
This is the exact thing that led to the way animals are raised. Farmers wanted to improve the way animals were raised and make the job easier to manage. Money has turned it into a practice that no longer centers around the animals best well being. And that's consumer demand for cheap food when I say money because that's what drove the market!
As our ministry just bought a Barndominium and 7 acres in NW GA, and I'm currently turning our garden for its 1st use, this video was very timely. Thanks Joel!
Interesting! I tend to agree with your reasons but know that many ranchers in northern Canada (e.g, my nephew in the far north of British Columbia) and Steve Kenyon in Northern Alberta (I believe that you and Steve have spoken at the same conferences) keep their cattle outside all winter. The ground is frozen and, after they have cleaned up any winter pasture, the cattle consume the large round bales of hay that have been strategically placed in pastures where the ranchers want to see the soil enriched. The ranchers argue that the cattle handle the cold well (it can get as cold as -40 F degrees) and experience less sickness than they would if inside. Also, I know that Greg Judy keeps his cattle outside all winter in Missouri where the soil likely goes through a number of freeze and thaw cycles in the winter. I am not sure what sorts of problems he has with pugging.
If I remember correctly, Greg Judy attributes the lack of pugging to the lower weight of his cattle, high pasture coverage of mature grasses with strong root systems, and frequent rotations. His bulls top out around 1100-1200 and his cows around 900, so that is a lot less weight on each hoof than the standard angus.
I too believe that if cattle require shelter in the winter there is a problem with the breed or the management. Developing livestock that are suited to your climate and managing them well is an important cornerstone of sustainable farming.
Was wondering how most ranchers would house all their 100 head of cattle in the winter. If bad storms come here in NM then I have then wind blocks along with round bales.
@@et6036that’s correct
@@et6036well said. Barns even farther north than Joel, northcentral PA, cattle get pneumonia is a barn.
In not is
❄️Thank you for talking about, making winter comfortable and safe for our livestock and chickens
All good and valid points. Winter for us here in Missouri means spot seeding pastures and letting them ready themselves for spring growth. We keep the few steers in our dry lot and loafing shed to manage all the things he you discussed. Also gives us a good way to build the annual compost pile area.
Many thanks. As always.
Richest blessings.
From South Africa.
Merry Christmas and blessings from Texas!
I live just outside of Winnipeg, MB which is zone 3a which gets down to -40F. Only -18F now lol. I built a 32 by 16 foot deep winter greenhouse with a 14 ft pond 4 ft deep with a waterfall for my 5 ducks and 4 chickens. It’s my first year with the flock I hatched this past spring and fall. The greenhouse is attached to the east side of a 26 x 16 foot garage where the chickens (not ducks anymore!) have 10 feet of indoor coop space. After the Indian runner ducks trampled and pecked to death one of my Hmong chicks at 9 weeks old, then swallowed whole a Polish Tollbunt chick at 11 weeks old, I decided to not allow the ducks “inside”. Just a heads up on co-habitating chicks with predatory and territorial runner ducks lol.
I’ve been sitting here bored anticipating our first year of rotational grazing. Excellent point that I should be using this time as a "launch pad ". Thank you Joel AND crew for your hardwork and diligence in teaching the neophytes such as myself. Merry Christmas and God Bless!
I really only noticed a few pigs and a greenhouse full of chickens in the video. Carbonaceous Diaper is a great concept. $400 is allot to spend on a class tho.
Merry Christmas! 🙂🎄❄️☃️🍾
This isn't going to be one of Joel's more popular takes
Mainly because it’s not well thought out.
@michaelmay6859 it's abominable
Tell that to my Belted Galloways! They'd calve in the middle of a blizzard and -50 windchill.
So would my british whites!
I know every farm is different. Like Greg Judy's farm, you've mentioned him, he grazes all winter, with some hay sometimes, without barns and his cattle get along great, sometimes even gaining weight in winter. I've heard you say you run as many as 1000 head of cattle. Do you really have enough barns to house that many cattle? God bless you and The Poly face family.
Greg has mentioned that his sheep do even better in the winter.
I communicated with a former Polyface Farm employee today who said that his beef cattle stay outside at multiple locations. Only swine and poultry are housed. I think The Lunatic Farmer is full of it.
@@practicalsheepman I know he keeps cattle under cover at the home place. I was just wondering about the other cattle at the several rented farms.
Merry Christmas
Good video, I think people don't realize how nice it is for animals to have shelter.
We live in Arizona where the weather is very agreeable. Despite the great weather we put in a three sided shed with a roof. The horses love it and use it every day.
We now have shelters for all of our animals.
Most people don’t know how inhospitable a barn is for cattle. If you’re moving your cattle to minimize pugging and using the placement of feed to focus fertility placement on areas that need it, cattle should be comfortable to very low temperatures. Bringing smaller livestock in can make sense but cattle are designed to survive outside in the cold.
This is where I differ from Joel. My sheep will live outside all winter. Any animal that can't handle the weather doesn't belong in my program. My sheep are currently munching hay in a brushy area Im converting to pasture. Im a bit more like Greg Judy in that regard. Joel is a little more "old-school" in his approach.
ThankQ
videos always focus on summer farming but glad were talking about the other half of the year when its not as enjoyable, least up north
Perhaps for your social and economic context… with the right heritage breed and grazing management you don’t have those issues.
But but but .... did the buffalo have a shed?
I want to see the Netflix winter livestock rumble ....
One round, Joel vs Greg Judy.
Who will win?
Sorry Joel, but the barn full of poo seems like an idea you talk yourself into, keeping the herd out on the grass moving makes more sense unless you're talking dairy.
Rumble!!!!
Dairy cattle closed up in a free-free barn get pneumonia. I was a dairy farm kid and worker for 50+ years. A barn is a bad idea for housing.
Freeze free
@Marilou-g5t Right, I really meant for feeding and milking. I grew up in Virginia north of Polyface and it is not a severe cold region. Rare for snow to hang around for extended periods.
@@Getawaymoments feeding grain grows hooves and horns. Much better nutrients in meat when adaptively graized on multispecies paddocks. See Stefan Van Vliet's nutrient testing and Peter Byck's reporting of various studies.
Perhaps he should have explained his setup more thoroughly. The shelter he houses his cows in in the winter is a giant open air shed loaded with several feet of dry wood chips, which readily soak up the manure and urine. You could have simply stated that this particular system isn’t for you and that would have been fine, but to say the video is disturbing and that it will generate for him extra attention from people who oppose him on every issue already is silly. He has proven his methods are viable over the past several decades
Hey Scotty, maybe Joel should have titled the video something like, "How we winter livestock at Polyface Farm" instead of "Why you need winter housing at your pastured farm"? Salatin is losing a lot of regenerative grazing followers over this video.
Havnt even watched the video but this seems like a dumb take.
Well, thats a dumb take. What is missing here is context and motivation. Salatin wants the soil for compost and uses wood chips to keep things sanitary. It works. For him. There is no end all be all in this business.
@@Mister_Underhillthat and he feeds a small herd of cattle. He’s not winter housing 400 head on a carbonaceous diaper.
@@michaelmay6859 yes. Context is everything. 👍