one word; artwork. perfect loop hole. the big wigs use crap "art" as a way to launder illegal payments all the time. start painting, & at any rate your art won't be the crap stuff.
@@__Justin__. I just got you’ll be back from Hamilton stuck in my head. “I’ll send fully armed battalions To remind you of my love Da… Da da… Da da da… Da… Da 🎶 “ Sometimes I like to change the lyrics to it because of Joe Biden’s speech threatening Americans with f-15s. That was a really funny one. Remember the red one? 😂 we live in the funniest timeline.
Reminds me of a small auction I went to that wasn't supposed to be selling horses. Someone had a horse they needed to sell so they auctioned off the halter and lead rope and threw in the horse for "free".
Our farm name contains the name of an emotion in it. We had a farm inspector say that our name may need to get audited because they can't prove that our livestock are feeling that emotion. I laughed out loud for a good ten seconds until I realized the inspector wasn't laughing and was serious. I've since learned the value of asking for forgiveness rather than permission.
Reminds me of a bar owner in Chicago. I told him he has a great beer garden. He said we dont have one. We have a backyard for the upstairs tenants use, we cant stop customers from using it. I asked about the fine, his response was I can get fined 100 times and its still cheaper than the permit.
When the government is the most in the way of producers getting the product directly to consumers, that government is no longer, "For the people, By the people, and Of the people." And therefore needs to be abolished and replaced. It's our duty as Americans living under the constitution of the United States of America.
I guess I haven't looked at the laws, but I'm in Minnesota and direct buy beef and pork, but only sell live chickens. I've never really cared to follow the laws of man that much but damn you really can't buy beef or pork in the store like this. Especially for the price for steaks, roasts, and smoked getting around half the cost of garbage store ground beef per pound.
That can be really difficult. Confederate President Jeff Davis said in 1961, "I'd rather LEAVE the union WITH the Constitution than remain WITHOUT it." Lincoln and his robber baron bankster cronies had already trashed the Constitution.
@@priestesslucy The federal government under the Constitution is VERY small. The power is supposed to be STATES RIGHTS and STATE CONTROL. Senators were originally supposed to represent STATE governments and be appointed by State Legislatures. Tom Emmer who wants to be House Speaker believes in overriding the Electoral College and forcing all electors to vote with the State popular vote. He headed the George Soros organization National Popular Vote Initiative which would give all power to big liberal cities. He also wants to expand the Supreme Court so the conservative trend can be ended.
Joel Salatin has been around for enough decades and large enough community to share incredible innovative creations people have shared. In any Governing overreach peoples creativity sky rockets to sidestep. Also using proven precedents others have used in getting laws changed.
Back in the day there were rumors of a bootleg goat dairy in our area. You could only get in on it if you were referred by a trusted customer. You then learned the gate combination to a certain ranch. On that ranch was an abandoned barn. In the barn was a refrigerator full of 1 gallon bottles of raw goats milk. You took the milk you wanted, and then at a separate location on a different property was a 'drop box'. A certain box in a remote area you would drop cash for the milk you had taken. The whole thing was really exciting, or so friends told me, you know, breaking the law to get raw milk. Of course, I only heard rumors, never really tried to check it out myself. I heard it was some of the sweetest milk in the world. So wonder if another option for farm products is a storage barn with poor security where people steal things, and then somewhere else an anonymously donation box.
We ran a deer processing shop (but we butchered everything...) for about a decade. We could not sell any deer meat that people didn’t pick up to others, but we could sell the whole deer for the service OR we could sell a few lbs for the price of the bags it came in. “Bags aren’t cheap. That bag that holds that 1lb of deer burger is about $5 each”. But... the government wanted to know how many personal fruit trees and chickens we had.... so we shut down. Now, I see what they were doing.... they want to evenly distribute the goods. We still have our set up and walk in cooler for personal use though. And we still do stuff here and there for people we know.
@@ladyryan902I met a lady who grows the elderberries she makes into syrup she sells. When the department of ag came to do her inspection & discovered she grew her own berries, they insisted on registering all her elderberry shrubs to have on a list. She had no choice and they told her it would be beneficial for “people” to know where to find someone with fresh elderberries. My thinking is that like the “bird flu” they want to know where to go destroy things they don’t want us to have.
Regulations now a days have very little to do with protecting health and consumers. Its to keep people buying into the system and spending money in the economy. The food industry spend tons of money to lobby against allowing farms selling direct so you have to buy their products in the store. It comes down to protecting corporate money and campaign donors for those in office pushing these policies.
I live in Virginia and the Board-of-Supervisors was harassing me about having a sign at my mailbox selling HONEY to the public because he wants a tax imposed on my sales/equipment, part of the argument was having too many beehives.. The guy never came back because there is no county ordinance on beekeeping and Agriculture is exempt from nuisance laws approved by their own committee.
That was interesting. I don’t raise livestock anymore, I buy grass fed beef from a farmer. I actually buy the cow and he takes it to be processed at a small beef processing facility. My eggs come from my friend who has pet chickens. We have a huge farmers market that we visit occasionally. We have had this discussion with a friendly farmer that sells chicken and beef. He has to go through a lot of regulations.
In canada , at one time you could sell raw goat milk if you labeled it as Dog Food Only. But the govt has now taken that away....I literally fear my own govt.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
There was an ol' boy in South Carolina back in the 90s that decided to open a dirt floor beer joint. He had a retail sales license but was unable to get a alcohol license so he sold cups and gave away the beer to go in them. The Sheriff's dept showed up to put him out of business everyone in the placed said we didn't buy any beer just the cup. The Sheriff's dept could not identify a crime so they had to leave with out making an arrest. But they didn't give up they showed back up about three weeks later. What they figured out is it is against the law to give beer to anyone under 21 years of age. They made some arrest and put the place out of business.
That mans coffee shaking for a second and the look on his face when Joel mentioned decline of empires...and he realized what day in age we are clearly in. Food prices seemed to jack up 25% since the last time I went to the store (once a month)
I am so bummed I missed HOA this year! It was just too busy with all the little kids, but I’m really hoping I can get out there next year. So glad to see you two chatting!
That book is hilarious. Highly recommended. Great sense of humor. First, get rid of "zoning" in your local town. It is pure tyranny by the self-styled "elite" who think they have more rights (and favoritism) than you do.
I'm in Saginaw township and really wish I could do a small back yard farm but we have a stupid HOA 😞. They complain about EVERYTHING! Reminds me of the lady who got a fine for growing food in her front yard in Jordan MI
Interesting thought process and conversation. However, over time as people manipulate the system, regulators will close each loop hole off through regulation. I know this to be true. It may take them a bit of time to close them off but the door will shut. I find it interesting that I have never heard one person state to work within the existing regulations and work / campaign to have the regulations changed to accommodate farm sales - things like customers signing waivers of acceptance, or that on farm sales and processing are allowed if waiver signed, to suggest a few. Waiver's are typically not worth the paper they are written on, but it serves as a warning and the customer accepts the risk, thereby washing the regulators of all responsibility - cuz Joel is correct, it is a CYA for the regulators. I am legally allowed to sell from farm. Just my thoughts as I listen to this.
The powers that be are not likely to allow private farm sales/butchering bc they are in bed with big Agriculture. They don’t want to take customers away from big Ag
@@Antonio_Martinez1 Perhaps that is true in parts of the world. I don't know as I am not a fly on the wall where I could find out if they are in bed together. I can only base it on what many have interpreted and proclaim. However, I also know that where I live it is totally legal....no raw milk for human consumption but I can sell meat and eggs with no troubles as long as I do so from the tailgate. I phoned the authorities and verified before I venture down this road.
I agree with the loopholes getting cut off. I actually think the PMA idea is better. Yes, it'll get tested in the courts and is risky. And yes, someone who'd quite large and successful may have way over 400 clients, but... Loopholes get shut down more easily, can cost as much. If the PMA works, and whats the chances you're the one having to defend it, then it could be a permanent solution. Loopholes, not so much.
In our small state of ND it was a major battle against the STATE government bureaucats to get the ability to sell locally made products at a farmers market or even have a potluck meal about 10 years ago. The nanny state doesn't want to give up any control because they are so concerned about your "safety". Yet it is perfectly legal to sell food with ingredients (colors, additives, etc) and traces of chemicals that are banned in other countries. So it is NOT really about food safety. An interesting thing is that you are allowed to sell cigarettes with a simple warning printed on the package, yet wholesome unprocessed foods are discriminated against.
Big island of Hawaii there is a shortage of butchers…..and apparently facilities……here’s a thought…..what if I invested a mobile coolbot cooler and rented it out…
I really like Joel but sometimes you have to look at what people do and not what they say. Joel sells USDA cuts and mails them. He owns a stake in a USDA processor. That's why we are making the switch this year from shares to USDA cuts. :)
The only thing that gives the law any legitimacy is compliance. Complying with law is not a guide to morality. Ignore the laws, poach what you want, and sell only to people you know. Additionally, know your rights especially regarding 4th and 5th Amendments; not that the evil criminals in D.C. or state governments are concerned with your rights, but it's important to know that if statists and authoritarians ever arrive at your door, never cooperate. Don't answer questions, don't give access, demand that they leave and return later with a warrant. You have nothing to gain by cooperating with investigators; there's no reason to make their jobs easier to penalize you.
Another angle for navigating our current state that might be helpful is that the stamped value of an American silver eagle is one dollar while it's value is much higher.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
The local butcher shop right down the street has whole butchered rabbits for sale for meat. I know someone that raises rabbits for meat so I asked the butcher if he got his rabbits locally, he told me that the rabbits are from China and the USDA forces him to buy them that way. WTF??????????
Um? The meat in stores is almost all foreign look up the cattleman association reports as long as that meat is packaged on us soil it can be labeled USA.. Horrifying. How long does it ship frozen thawed frozen rotted? Vaxs chemicals. Makes me sick😢
A free society should not have to trick it's way through a free enterprise system to avoid fines or jail from our government. This is a sure sign that we are over-regulated. Our representatives are not representing us, they are oppressing us. It's not the government's job to protect us from our own food.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
@@yellowbasementrecords651 It has nothing to do with owning property and produce food upon it. It's about commercially selling food and the food safety regulations that goes along with it. As a commercial producers you have a duty to follow codes
What if you set up separate PMAs for each of your products? Ex: Chicken PMA, Hog PMA, Raw Milk PMA? Would that give you a limit of 400 members for each with a total of 1200 members?
PMA over 400 now public. well is there a rule that they have to be a member all year? when they buy it they are a member, after that their membership lapses. does it matter
I’ve heard Joel speak about the eggs; and what I remember him saying was that you can’t make any claims about the eggs. No sizing, or grading; just sell them as “eggs”. I don’t remember if there was more to it than that.
While thinking about starting a farm and the financials the thought of an attorney popped into my mind. Would be nice to stay a hop, skip, and a leap ahead of the law Thumper's. 🇺🇸
I know of a farm that sells live animals direct to customers. But the farm owners don’t butcher. the guys who butcher rent space on the property as independent contractors. Prominent signage informing public that they are not the owners of the farm and must be paid for their services. Very convenient
My question for states that require that your product be "food or fiber", how would you prove that food was sold when it comes free with a class? You sold the class, not the food. I know in our state of Florida, agritourism is permitted but it's not necessarily covered under the Greenbelt property tax exemption. What a waste of our time and resources to have to run in circles battling this stuff...sigh...
@@dungeonmaster6292One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
how do we make our government comply with the will of the people? how do we make our government only enforce common sense regulation? how do we get our government to loosen its grip on its citizens? how do we get our government to not criminalize people doing nothing wrong and criminalize people actually stealing, destroying, defrauding, and betraying our country?
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
the system is so corrupt it may need a reset How do you remind government regulators that civilization has existed for millennia without them and their job should not be to harass and impune the people doing the work to sustain that existence and instead be a helpful contributor to sustaining that existence? It would be nice if local agencies worked to promote local farms and businesses instead of working to keep them from existing or growing If the direction this world is heading culminates in any sort of collapse and rise from the ashes they will not exist.
Eventually this whole government system will need to collapse because the longer it goes the more regulation happens the more unsustainable this whole thing becomes and it's just going to crash
If there are any farmers near Houston, Tx that sell grass fed, pastured, non vaccine/antibiotic/herbicide/pesticide/hormone beef, chicken and pork and butter...Please PM me. I need good, wholesome foods for my dogs.
Well I guess the only legal way to do it without lying is sell pricier live meat chickens with "optional" free butchering service*, and give proportional discounts for large orders of live laying chickens, eg. 10 for the price of 8. 🎉🎉🎉 * At a "licensed community processing centre" of course
P.S. Just sell all meat chickens, if the customer wants them for laying eggs he can adjust the feed himself. That all the difference to chickens anyway. 😄
Hey you can also do the same for cows but it'll be trickier. Maybe a live meat cow comes with "optional" free slaughtering and a live milk cow comes with "optional" 1 free veterinary visit (up to X amount, mail back receipt, cost of medications not included 😁 ).
Healthy animals slaughtered in sanitary environments should be the only concern of the government, laws, codes and inspections should only serve that purpose. We are over regulated and most regulations do little to ensure safety of the food.
"When regulatory tyranny becomes bad enough, circumvention becomes easier than compliance." That is getting close to sounding like: "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
The bureaucrat best serves greater humanity, As a technocrat in the heartless bureaucracy, Those expert few, Are smarter than you, And so they need to make all the decisions for you and me.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
Private vs Public Private club must be acting and remain in private and not effect interstate commerce. Commerce is public (government), interstate commerce is federal.
Oh no in thousands of years of human history how did we survive without government regulation of our food and where we get it. This issue is a recent problem. These regulatory agencies, constitutionally, have no power to make law or regulations. They are allowed to do so by congress, so that politicians can have their controls over the population without having to put their vote onto a law that would cause the voters to vote them out of office.
Can you raise live animals and have them slaughtered and sell whole chicken/ turkey after slaughter. Also sell a processed beef by 25lb box of frozen beef or combo beef poultry?
I am thinking we need a, at least, two-pronged approach. One, use all the "loopholes" in our favor and, two, be involved in getting God-Honoring Laws on the books and bad laws off the books. 1 John 4:10,11
"And [Yehoshua] said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers." - Luke 11:46
I'm not saying that you would not need a really good lawyer to do this yet it seems to me that between the farm act and the freedom of religion act that anyone who believes in the Bible being the word of God and it stating that All the Trees are for our food and All the plants are for our medicine that we have our rights back to grow distill and ferment anything and everything
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
Seems like the government has enough to take care of without stirring this pot? Who is the lady talking??? Is she supposed to be part of this conversation???
In another video, Joel mentions a lady he knows who started a meat “church” or something like that. So “members” of this “church” are entitled to certain amounts of meat each week.
Stay updated regarding the Private Members Association as information is gathered:
solutions.heartwaymembers.com/
one word; artwork. perfect loop hole. the big wigs use crap "art" as a way to launder illegal payments all the time. start painting, & at any rate your art won't be the crap stuff.
@@overseer7004Sounds like what Hunter is doing now!! Lol
I sleep so much better at night knowing Federal Agents are protecting me from Amish Eggs, Grass Fed Beef, and Raw Milk.
They're gonna love you to death!
The feds take a break on rum springer, because they condone that type of activity
@@__Justin__. I just got you’ll be back from Hamilton stuck in my head.
“I’ll send fully armed battalions
To remind you of my love
Da… Da da… Da da da… Da… Da 🎶 “
Sometimes I like to change the lyrics to it because of Joe Biden’s speech threatening Americans with f-15s. That was a really funny one. Remember the red one? 😂 we live in the funniest timeline.
😂
has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with protecting the corporate farms
I have a friend who teaches butchering for a fee. The animal carcass....including hide etc are a gift. The class is legit.
Do people ever take the class and donate the gift?
Reminds me of a small auction I went to that wasn't supposed to be selling horses. Someone had a horse they needed to sell so they auctioned off the halter and lead rope and threw in the horse for "free".
Our farm name contains the name of an emotion in it.
We had a farm inspector say that our name may need to get audited because they can't prove that our livestock are feeling that emotion.
I laughed out loud for a good ten seconds until I realized the inspector wasn't laughing and was serious. I've since learned the value of asking for forgiveness rather than permission.
That's hysterical! God forbid it's feeeeelings 😂😂
Just reverse the statement, make the agency prove the cows aren’t happy.
What state do you live in?
What is the ??!!! That is absolutely insane
Reminds me of a bar owner in Chicago. I told him he has a great beer garden. He said we dont have one. We have a backyard for the upstairs tenants use, we cant stop customers from using it. I asked about the fine, his response was I can get fined 100 times and its still cheaper than the permit.
When the government is the most in the way of producers getting the product directly to consumers, that government is no longer, "For the people, By the people, and Of the people." And therefore needs to be abolished and replaced. It's our duty as Americans living under the constitution of the United States of America.
I guess I haven't looked at the laws, but I'm in Minnesota and direct buy beef and pork, but only sell live chickens. I've never really cared to follow the laws of man that much but damn you really can't buy beef or pork in the store like this. Especially for the price for steaks, roasts, and smoked getting around half the cost of garbage store ground beef per pound.
That can be really difficult. Confederate President Jeff Davis said in 1961, "I'd rather LEAVE the union WITH the Constitution than remain WITHOUT it." Lincoln and his robber baron bankster cronies had already trashed the Constitution.
Forget replacing it.
We don't need the swamp that is the Federal Governor
@@priestesslucy The federal government under the Constitution is VERY small. The power is supposed to be STATES RIGHTS and STATE CONTROL. Senators were originally supposed to represent STATE governments and be appointed by State Legislatures.
Tom Emmer who wants to be House Speaker believes in overriding the Electoral College and forcing all electors to vote with the State popular vote. He headed the George Soros organization National Popular Vote Initiative which would give all power to big liberal cities. He also wants to expand the Supreme Court so the conservative trend can be ended.
It's "for your safety" they approve cigarettes but will point guns at people who want to drink raw grass fed milk.
Joel Salatin has been around for enough decades and large enough community to share incredible innovative creations people have shared. In any Governing overreach peoples creativity sky rockets to sidestep. Also using proven precedents others have used in getting laws changed.
I am so glad I am building my homestead in the Philippines. There are no restrictions in my farm community. We buy and sell freely and help each other
Back in the day there were rumors of a bootleg goat dairy in our area. You could only get in on it if you were referred by a trusted customer. You then learned the gate combination to a certain ranch. On that ranch was an abandoned barn. In the barn was a refrigerator full of 1 gallon bottles of raw goats milk. You took the milk you wanted, and then at a separate location on a different property was a 'drop box'. A certain box in a remote area you would drop cash for the milk you had taken. The whole thing was really exciting, or so friends told me, you know, breaking the law to get raw milk. Of course, I only heard rumors, never really tried to check it out myself. I heard it was some of the sweetest milk in the world.
So wonder if another option for farm products is a storage barn with poor security where people steal things, and then somewhere else an anonymously donation box.
Some black market dairy? Sounds fun
Time to take our Freedom back
@@k4door789yes sir
Pretty wild cloak and daggers guerrilla dairy farming
More, more, and more. May it all increase
Thank you for having Joel on your channel! Great!
We ran a deer processing shop (but we butchered everything...) for about a decade. We could not sell any deer meat that people didn’t pick up to others, but we could sell the whole deer for the service OR we could sell a few lbs for the price of the bags it came in. “Bags aren’t cheap. That bag that holds that 1lb of deer burger is about $5 each”. But... the government wanted to know how many personal fruit trees and chickens we had.... so we shut down. Now, I see what they were doing.... they want to evenly distribute the goods. We still have our set up and walk in cooler for personal use though. And we still do stuff here and there for people we know.
What state are you in?
WTH does your fruit trees n birds have to do with your butchering damm gov.!!
@@ladyryan902I met a lady who grows the elderberries she makes into syrup she sells. When the department of ag came to do her inspection & discovered she grew her own berries, they insisted on registering all her elderberry shrubs to have on a list. She had no choice and they told her it would be beneficial for “people” to know where to find someone with fresh elderberries. My thinking is that like the “bird flu” they want to know where to go destroy things they don’t want us to have.
@@ladyryan902 that’s what we said!
Thank you,Joel for taking the time to share this with us. Thank you,
Heart way for asking the question for us! ❤
Regulations now a days have very little to do with protecting health and consumers. Its to keep people buying into the system and spending money in the economy. The food industry spend tons of money to lobby against allowing farms selling direct so you have to buy their products in the store. It comes down to protecting corporate money and campaign donors for those in office pushing these policies.
I live in Virginia and the Board-of-Supervisors was harassing me about having a sign at my mailbox selling HONEY to the public because he wants a tax imposed on my sales/equipment, part of the argument was having too many beehives.. The guy never came back because there is no county ordinance on beekeeping and Agriculture is exempt from nuisance laws approved by their own committee.
Thank you! We are just starting to wade through West Virginia rules, etc., seems daunting. These are great ideas, thanks!
He's the best 💯 🍻
That was interesting. I don’t raise livestock anymore, I buy grass fed beef from a farmer. I actually buy the cow and he takes it to be processed at a small beef processing facility. My eggs come from my friend who has pet chickens. We have a huge farmers market that we visit occasionally. We have had this discussion with a friendly farmer that sells chicken and beef. He has to go through a lot of regulations.
In canada , at one time you could sell raw goat milk if you labeled it as Dog Food Only. But the govt has now taken that away....I literally fear my own govt.
With all do respect, F**k your government :)
You shoold
Sell it is fertilizing liquid. Lol
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
There was an ol' boy in South Carolina back in the 90s that decided to open a dirt floor beer joint. He had a retail sales license but was unable to get a alcohol license so he sold cups and gave away the beer to go in them. The Sheriff's dept showed up to put him out of business everyone in the placed said we didn't buy any beer just the cup. The Sheriff's dept could not identify a crime so they had to leave with out making an arrest. But they didn't give up they showed back up about three weeks later. What they figured out is it is against the law to give beer to anyone under 21 years of age. They made some arrest and put the place out of business.
Boooo
They needed some signs that said, "We don't sell cups to minors".
That mans coffee shaking for a second and the look on his face when Joel mentioned decline of empires...and he realized what day in age we are clearly in. Food prices seemed to jack up 25% since the last time I went to the store (once a month)
Thanks for this interview! Important crucial knowledge. Each small farm turnin on can offset world problems
I am so bummed I missed HOA this year! It was just too busy with all the little kids, but I’m really hoping I can get out there next year. So glad to see you two chatting!
HOA makes me think of the HomeOwners Association. 😱 🤣
@@budsak7771I stumbled over that one too and was 😳😂
Awesome info from Joel, as always.❤
Great interview thanks for posting it.
Great vid...this guy is great
Cool conversation! Sorry I missed it at the time... I think Will and I were off interviewing assorted people :)
Very Enlightening.......
OMG this one was good. I never knew. Thank you so much. I am subbed now. BTW this is my first time watching / found you here on TH-cam.
Wonderful! Thank you so much for your support!
That book is hilarious. Highly recommended. Great sense of humor. First, get rid of "zoning" in your local town. It is pure tyranny by the self-styled "elite" who think they have more rights (and favoritism) than you do.
A wish here in Michigan they would pass something like Maine's food Act
I'm in Saginaw township and really wish I could do a small back yard farm but we have a stupid HOA 😞. They complain about EVERYTHING! Reminds me of the lady who got a fine for growing food in her front yard in Jordan MI
@@nicolereadstarot CHALLENGE AUTHORITY
Someone in Michigan will have to begin the effort to make it happen.
Enjoyed meeting you at the HOA. Great video, thanks for the info
Hello! It was a pleasure chatting with y'all! Thank you so much for taking the time! Blessings and thank you for your support and encouragement ❤️
Home Owner's Association
@@dungeonmaster6292 Homesteaders Of America
@@jessicalynam7356 i was right.
Interesting thought process and conversation. However, over time as people manipulate the system, regulators will close each loop hole off through regulation. I know this to be true. It may take them a bit of time to close them off but the door will shut. I find it interesting that I have never heard one person state to work within the existing regulations and work / campaign to have the regulations changed to accommodate farm sales - things like customers signing waivers of acceptance, or that on farm sales and processing are allowed if waiver signed, to suggest a few. Waiver's are typically not worth the paper they are written on, but it serves as a warning and the customer accepts the risk, thereby washing the regulators of all responsibility - cuz Joel is correct, it is a CYA for the regulators. I am legally allowed to sell from farm. Just my thoughts as I listen to this.
The powers that be are not likely to allow private farm sales/butchering bc they are in bed with big Agriculture. They don’t want to take customers away from big Ag
@@Antonio_Martinez1 Perhaps that is true in parts of the world. I don't know as I am not a fly on the wall where I could find out if they are in bed together. I can only base it on what many have interpreted and proclaim. However, I also know that where I live it is totally legal....no raw milk for human consumption but I can sell meat and eggs with no troubles as long as I do so from the tailgate. I phoned the authorities and verified before I venture down this road.
I agree with the loopholes getting cut off. I actually think the PMA idea is better. Yes, it'll get tested in the courts and is risky. And yes, someone who'd quite large and successful may have way over 400 clients, but... Loopholes get shut down more easily, can cost as much. If the PMA works, and whats the chances you're the one having to defend it, then it could be a permanent solution. Loopholes, not so much.
In our small state of ND it was a major battle against the STATE government bureaucats to get the ability to sell locally made products at a farmers market or even have a potluck meal about 10 years ago. The nanny state doesn't want to give up any control because they are so concerned about your "safety". Yet it is perfectly legal to sell food with ingredients (colors, additives, etc) and traces of chemicals that are banned in other countries. So it is NOT really about food safety.
An interesting thing is that you are allowed to sell cigarettes with a simple warning printed on the package, yet wholesome unprocessed foods are discriminated against.
Big island of Hawaii there is a shortage of butchers…..and apparently facilities……here’s a thought…..what if I invested a mobile coolbot cooler and rented it out…
I really like Joel but sometimes you have to look at what people do and not what they say. Joel sells USDA cuts and mails them. He owns a stake in a USDA processor. That's why we are making the switch this year from shares to USDA cuts. :)
The only thing that gives the law any legitimacy is compliance. Complying with law is not a guide to morality. Ignore the laws, poach what you want, and sell only to people you know. Additionally, know your rights especially regarding 4th and 5th Amendments; not that the evil criminals in D.C. or state governments are concerned with your rights, but it's important to know that if statists and authoritarians ever arrive at your door, never cooperate. Don't answer questions, don't give access, demand that they leave and return later with a warrant. You have nothing to gain by cooperating with investigators; there's no reason to make their jobs easier to penalize you.
Another angle for navigating our current state that might be helpful is that the stamped value of an American silver eagle is one dollar while it's value is much higher.
What about launching a "young farmers" workshop for kids?
They target the Amish for having private groups … The government can’t leave hard working families alone …
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
When tyrany becomes law,,,,,,, Jefferson said it best
One time I was traveling down the highway at 100 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb.
I " give away" my beef and my neighbors and "acquaintances" feel compelled to give me a " Donation"
The local butcher shop right down the street has whole butchered rabbits for sale for meat. I know someone that raises rabbits for meat so I asked the butcher if he got his rabbits locally, he told me that the rabbits are from China and the USDA forces him to buy them that way. WTF??????????
Agreed. As long as the big guy gets his 10%.
Um? The meat in stores is almost all foreign look up the cattleman association reports as long as that meat is packaged on us soil it can be labeled USA.. Horrifying. How long does it ship frozen thawed frozen rotted? Vaxs chemicals. Makes me sick😢
I wouldn’t eat those rabbits, or anything else produced for food in China
Ditto squared. Why would anyone take food or anything from basically an avowed enemy?
It makes no sense. None of this makes any fucking sense!
@@SellamAbraham It doesn't make a lot of sense but it makes the powers-that-be a lot of money.
A free society should not have to trick it's way through a free enterprise system to avoid fines or jail from our government. This is a sure sign that we are over-regulated. Our representatives are not representing us, they are oppressing us. It's not the government's job to protect us from our own food.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
@@bipslone8880How is driving 120 mph on a public road related to your right to own property and produce food upon it.
@@yellowbasementrecords651 It has nothing to do with owning property and produce food upon it. It's about commercially selling food and the food safety regulations that goes along with it. As a commercial producers you have a duty to follow codes
No one is saying no laws, and you are being disingenuous and I'm being generous.
What if you set up separate PMAs for each of your products? Ex: Chicken PMA, Hog PMA, Raw Milk PMA? Would that give you a limit of 400 members for each with a total of 1200 members?
Maybe offer a service where you raise the animal and process & package for a price.
Interesting! 🤔
Correct Your Status And Standing. The only Peaceable Remedy.
PMA over 400 now public. well is there a rule that they have to be a member all year? when they buy it they are a member, after that their membership lapses. does it matter
I would recommend poor record keeping for the safety of your customers private information.
Link for PMA? thanks
What about selling eggs? Are they regulated as well? I suppose they could be sold has live animals.
I’ve heard Joel speak about the eggs; and what I remember him saying was that you can’t make any claims about the eggs. No sizing, or grading; just sell them as “eggs”. I don’t remember if there was more to it than that.
“I’m not selling moonshine, it is flavored fuel.” ;)
What about a pma for biofuel?
While thinking about starting a farm and the financials the thought of an attorney popped into my mind.
Would be nice to stay a hop, skip, and a leap ahead of the law Thumper's. 🇺🇸
Look into Common Law if you want to stay ahead. Dave Jose covers it, as does Jarrin Jackson.
@@AuntNutmeg much appreciated 😁👍
Do not comply with the government
I know of a farm that sells live animals direct to customers. But the farm owners don’t butcher. the guys who butcher rent space on the property as independent contractors. Prominent signage informing public that they are not the owners of the farm and must be paid for their services. Very convenient
My question for states that require that your product be "food or fiber", how would you prove that food was sold when it comes free with a class? You sold the class, not the food. I know in our state of Florida, agritourism is permitted but it's not necessarily covered under the Greenbelt property tax exemption. What a waste of our time and resources to have to run in circles battling this stuff...sigh...
Wisconsin is pretty cheap for pet food manufacturing
Like gray areas in the rules for racing
In Alberta Canada raw milk cannot leave the farm. They managed to close that loop hole.
The best way would be to put the meat in a dish you sell the dish not the meat.
The meat is a gift.
Sorry but an Amish farmer was recently arrested for having a meat club.
That case is being watched with great interest
I hope Amos wins his case !! He was politically targeted …
His community is 1000% behind him, including the "English" members. Whatever happens, the Amish are not stopping this practice.
@@dungeonmaster6292One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
@@scentsbyemebathbody3161No he was targeted for not getting a license and following regulations. He is a victim of his own stupidity.
I mean basically we opened up a can of worms with homeland security and cell 📲 phones! I mean watch the movie Enemy of the State, with Will Smith!!🤔👍
Well, there's the answer!
We all sell Cans of Worms as chicken feed, and give away a free chicken as proof that the product is "as advertised"!!🐥🐔🐓
how do we make our government comply with the will of the people?
how do we make our government only enforce common sense regulation?
how do we get our government to loosen its grip on its citizens?
how do we get our government to not criminalize people doing nothing wrong and criminalize people actually stealing, destroying, defrauding, and betraying our country?
By turning back to God.
@@AuntNutmegWhich God?
@@bipslone8880 The God of the Bible.
@@AuntNutmegThat God is immoral/Evil
Tyranny increases as the morality of the populace erodes.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
Did he say who the lady was who was selling pet food as `Fish Food`?
Why not just process your livestock at your local processor? Or start a co-op and start your own.
I think this is great. However those in power can always stop this. Be careful
the system is so corrupt it may need a reset
How do you remind government regulators that civilization has existed for millennia without them and their job should not be to harass and impune the people doing the work to sustain that existence and instead be a helpful contributor to sustaining that existence?
It would be nice if local agencies worked to promote local farms and businesses instead of working to keep them from existing or growing
If the direction this world is heading culminates in any sort of collapse and rise from the ashes they will not exist.
Eventually this whole government system will need to collapse because the longer it goes the more regulation happens the more unsustainable this whole thing becomes and it's just going to crash
If there are any farmers near Houston, Tx that sell grass fed, pastured, non vaccine/antibiotic/herbicide/pesticide/hormone beef, chicken and pork and butter...Please PM me. I need good, wholesome foods for my dogs.
Wisconsin doesn't have a Cottage Law
Red tape stinks!
Well I guess the only legal way to do it without lying is sell pricier live meat chickens with "optional" free butchering service*, and give proportional discounts for large orders of live laying chickens, eg. 10 for the price of 8. 🎉🎉🎉
* At a "licensed community processing centre" of course
P.S. Just sell all meat chickens, if the customer wants them for laying eggs he can adjust the feed himself. That all the difference to chickens anyway. 😄
Hey you can also do the same for cows but it'll be trickier. Maybe a live meat cow comes with "optional" free slaughtering and a live milk cow comes with "optional" 1 free veterinary visit (up to X amount, mail back receipt, cost of medications not included 😁 ).
mancrush for Joel S.
Healthy animals slaughtered in sanitary environments should be the only concern of the government, laws, codes and inspections should only serve that purpose. We are over regulated and most regulations do little to ensure safety of the food.
"When regulatory tyranny becomes bad enough, circumvention becomes easier than compliance." That is getting close to sounding like:
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
The bureaucrat best serves greater humanity,
As a technocrat in the heartless bureaucracy,
Those expert few,
Are smarter than you,
And so they need to make all the decisions for you and me.
Thousands of lactose intolerant people can drink and eat raw dairy because its constituents have not been altered by heat and mechanical means.
The government needs to stay out of our lives and stay the hell out of others countries
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
No one has been made sick or died from properly handled raw dairy or grass fed beef.
That cup of coffee must be getting heavy by now... Either that or you have a roboarm... 😂
I'm working on a pretty solid solution to this that works in other industries. Reply here if interested in participating in a test
Please contact us here at this link.
solutions.heartwaymembers.com/
Private vs Public
Private club must be acting and remain in private and not effect interstate commerce.
Commerce is public (government), interstate commerce is federal.
This is exactly it right here. Privacy and secrecy.
Oh no in thousands of years of human history how did we survive without government regulation of our food and where we get it. This issue is a recent problem. These regulatory agencies, constitutionally, have no power to make law or regulations. They are allowed to do so by congress, so that politicians can have their controls over the population without having to put their vote onto a law that would cause the voters to vote them out of office.
"Who wants to fight?"
The people joel. The people want to fight.
Can you raise live animals and have them slaughtered and sell whole chicken/ turkey after slaughter. Also sell a processed beef by 25lb box of frozen beef or combo beef poultry?
I am thinking we need a, at least, two-pronged approach. One, use all the "loopholes" in our favor and, two, be involved in getting God-Honoring Laws on the books and bad laws off the books. 1 John 4:10,11
TH-cam obstructed the hell out of me to keep me from seeing this.
forever the victim..... whaaaaa
All it takes is one person dying from food posioning and getting a good lawyer to ruin everything.
"And [Yehoshua] said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers." - Luke 11:46
Maybe all the good lawyers need a little food poisoning?
i feel just as confused as I did before the video
I'm not saying that you would not need a really good lawyer to do this yet it seems to me that between the farm act and the freedom of religion act that anyone who believes in the Bible being the word of God and it stating that All the Trees are for our food and All the plants are for our medicine that we have our rights back to grow distill and ferment anything and everything
I bet you included marijuana in there. 🤣
@@pj_ytmt-123 All plants are for our medicine
Those hands that are on Joel. They look like he can wrangle a hog or a bull with ease. lol
Right! They are some working hands for sure!
What is Lawful is Not Legal, what is Legal is Not Lawful.
One time I was traveling down the highway at 120 mph and the police actually pulled me over and gave me a fine. The damn government has taken away my freedumb to travel.
Everything is illegal, I'm done with it
Not time for ole big to kixk rocks
So, couldn’t you just sell all meat, eggs, milk as “pet food” not for human consumption ;) and be covered.
Seems like the government has enough to take care of without stirring this pot? Who is the lady talking??? Is she supposed to be part of this conversation???
“Where does a declining empire go? They become more tyrannical.”
Take a tip from Hunter Biden... Sell artwork and include a beef.
What about making the PMA a religious organization as well? The Wiccan religion is an old religion.....
In another video, Joel mentions a lady he knows who started a meat “church” or something like that. So “members” of this “church” are entitled to certain amounts of meat each week.
@@jenbear8652 feed the masses
Call it "" Communion"!
Not much nutrition in those little wafers Catholics give out.
The "Body of Christ" wasn't made out of grain!
It's amazing to me people still believe there's honor in serving or becoming govt.