Emperor Belos is Related to Eda & Lilith Clawthorne! | The Owl House Theory
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Emperor Belos, Hunter and the Clawthorne family are all related! The Owl House Season 2 gave us strong evidence in Hollow Mind that the brother of Philip Wittebane, the OG Hunter, went onto fall in love with a Clawthorne, leading to the eventual creation of Dell, Eda and Lilith! Did Emperor Belos create the bloodline he hates most?
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OG Hunter built the Portal, not Philip/Belos - thats why Belos didnt demand Luz turn over the key. He didnt know about it until Hunter found it - and thats why the portal was hidden near Eda's child hood home.
I actually had a thought about that not three hours ago
That’s a great idea
Yeah makes sense also when we see the shadow in the diary it does resemble Hunter more
It's true the owl house season 2 episode 21 king's tide first the eda lilith raine whisper luz hunter amity willow gus vee and camila vs emperor belos to get the key and portal door from human world luz she go to back home
If Philip knew how to make a portal he would had already made one by this point, so his brother being its actual creator makes a lot of sense.
But I also think there must be some sort of "natural occurring" portals like the time pools, bcos we know human stuff washes ashore from time to time (like the Azura books)
If Belos's brother married into the Clawthorne family, then i think that would explain why Belos possibly killed him because since Belos is a witch Hunter and if his brother married a witch that would mean Belos executed him for it.
Yeah that's pretty messed up but considering there is evidence to suggest Belos came from the same time. At the Salem witch trials which was a big thing in Connecticut
@@animezilla4486 the Salem witch trials did happen during the 1600’s and Philip and his brother were both adults when they went to the demon realm. The lingering question is how did the witch show up without the human portal Belos made.
@@Ghostface1998 Belos probably never made the portal. It's likely that that witch was the one to make it.
@@bobthebacon3163 I mean his journal literally shows the exact same door that Eda had found.
@@Ghostface1998 Good question I'm think the portal to the human world wasn't made by Belos but made by the same witch with the flames coming from her hands. My theory is that the witches originally were from Earth but came to the boiling isles to escape being executed
I just noticed something; one of the ingredients for a Grimwalker is Selkiedomus scales. Belos sent Hunter to hunt parts for his replacement.
That's cold.
Yeah... but Hunter didn't take any with him
There were probably scales on the ground that belos sent someone else for afterward. Luz sent them away.
That's grim
@@heatherfall_3996 walker
The brother was able to move on, but Philip was stuck in the past.
Cold, calculated, cruel.
That was well put
@@animezilla4486 And accurate
Too stubborn
Doesn't make the show any more interesting when other shows have done it far better
@@leonishikino6873 just as good to me this show is regardless
The fact the Golden Guard historically has always worn a Owl Mask.
Also would be a classic thematic play, having the Clawthorne Family (the living descendants of his Brother and the result of his Beliefs), Hunter (the literal clone of his Brother, who judging by the number dead carry on his good hearted and even noble nature that enviably opposes his brothers darker one), and
Luz (Who Echo's the Brothers own wonder and love of the Boiling iles and its people that led to him opposing his brothers hatred)
Being the Forces at play against Belos "aka Philip"
And inevitably being the force that defeats him representing his brothers love overcoming Belos's hate.
This calls back to when Lilith said towards the end of season one - when Eda was captured “ Eda is with family now”. It really stuck out - because of all the things she could have said why “family”? In a way Lilith was following Belos’ path in season one - following the rules - a stickler for order- ruthless in order to get her way- and showing jealously towards a sibling. But luckily changed a new leaf- something Belos would never do because his pride and ideology.
It does seem like the relationship between Philip and his brother is a dark parallel to that of Eda and Lilith.
Also explains why he's soo stuck up with try to get Eda and Lilith
Also an interesting tie in that I noticed, in Young Blood, Old Souls, Luz finds a knife that has a blade similar to the knives that both Philip and his brother used in their duel. Theoretically, this could be the same knife that the brother owned (thus being a Wittebane family weapon) that was passed down through the Clawthorne's.
this is a good point however its also worth pointing out the same style of knife was used by principle bump when he tried to dissect luz in teenage abomination (sorry forgot the episode title) Though I believe is very likely true and this connection is likely intentional it is also possible that its just an odd coincidence or alternatively it was originally just reusing from teenage abomination in ybos with the meaning only being added later as when the creative team designed the paintings in hollow mind which would make sense as those paintings are clearly very purposefully designed including small easily missable details such as a baby bump. what i believe is a stronger piece of evidence then the knife is the colour of the spell circle used by phillip's brother's wife as it has a similar amber colour to that of the spells eda used in season one and we can clearly see the importance of colour especially in spell circles with each coven having an assigned colour as well as belos and hunter's red magic. as far as i am aware that specific colour of spell circle is only used by eda however i maybe incorrect. although know that i think about the knife is very similar to the stereotypical design of ritual daggers in many forms of fantasy media and simliarly kinda follows that idea in the show with the scene featurering Principe bump clearly evoking images human sacrifice with further more one of the central themes of ybos is sacrifice with lilith eda and luz all making major sacrifices so perhaps it doesnt denoate a connection but rather a motive perhaps rather then just being angry with his brother philip ritualistically killed his brother. however an arguement against this idea is the fact the connection is shaky at best and the knife doesnt consistently appear as a symbol of sacrifice if it did it would make sense for it to appear in several other episodes including edas requiem and elsewhere and elsewhen.
@@nifty9145 oh you're right! The knife could just be a little bit of a stretch but I still think it's somewhat of an interesting connection
@@kittygirl2210 honestly I could see it going either way and yeah it’s definitely a huge stretch most theory crafting is I mostly going off what I believe would thematically make sense it’s really easy to just take two points out of context to find the symbolism of something without ie the knife while forgetting about or disregarding the other appearances of the object personally I believe the knife does symbolise something because it was very purposefully included quite prominently in several of belos’ memories. And honestly with the appearances we’ve seen the only real symbolism that sought of fits all three scenarios is the idea of sacrifice but I’ll be the first to admit the link is weak at best. Maybe we’ve forgotten an appearance or we don’t have all the information yet but as of now thats my best interpretation based on real world symbolism the context surrounding its appearances and what I believe makes sense thematically
@@nifty9145 And perhaps it's just a little fun knife blade shape to shake things up from it just being a straight blade
Also it's a very similar to the knife eda used to cut apple slices se1 ep7! (I forgot the name of the episode 😅)
It’s totally plausible that Philip’s brother married into the clawthorne family which would make Eda, Lilith, Dell and Gwendolyn not fully witch with the human gene being recessive.
That's a possibility
Along with being recessive, it was probably washed out slowly but surely because the clawthornes most likely weren’t getting together with humans since Phillip was the only human on the isles before Luz.
@@youngbloodoldsouls it’s still in their genetics just not as prominent as their witch side. They aren’t even 25% human it would be like idk 5%
Gwendolyn? Is there an incest story we don’t know about?
@@gaf407 Gwendolyn or Dell one mentions the Clawthorne clan and also her hair matches that of the person in the paintings.
I think we are missing the fact that the statues of Phillip and his brother in Luz's town are from when they were adults. This means someone must have seen them when they were in their adulthood to have carved the statues. So it is possible that they were able to travel back and forth to the boiling isles somehow or in that painting they encountered a witch when they were younger and met the same witch again when they got older. Then the witch lured and trapped them in the boiling isles.
Maybe the witch that lured the Witterbane Brothers into the Boiling Isles could possibly be the Collector.
Why hasn't anyone considered that the door Luz used is way, way old and was how the brother who was carving first met the clawthorne witch(without ever mentioning her family name), before finally bringing his brother through it, the witch hunter to meet his new wife. She might have been pregnant and a fight happened, causing him to murder his own brother when he tried to save his wife. She might have thought he went through the door to escape and took it, trapping him. Of course, the Great, great, that Eda's mother spoke of was probably a descendent from when he was still being thrown out of towns back then and before the first grimwalker. Since it seems his Belos plan came out only after the grimwalkers first started to appear. (I could be wrong? Since none seemed to live long.)
It'd be a perfect tragedy, if brothers close as can be but one loves a witch and the other not... yet. The other might have thought the witch was taking his brother away (so often with younger siblings that look up to the older one) and when he loses his brother, he becomes a witch hunter and uses wild magic in an attempt to bring back his brother and the only reason why he stayed as long as he did because he knew magic, the kind he needed wouldn't exist in the human world. Say what you will, unless angry, he's a smart, calculating villain that can think on his feet.
@@oprime oooh that's a good theory too.
@@panky_pooh Thanks!
I mean in the painting where the witch was luring the brothers in, they both looked to be adults? I think they were both adults when the witch took them to the boiling isles.
I can see Phillip being a great great great great uncle to his brother’s child. To not mention that Hunter calls him Uncle Belos and I can kinda see Eda and Lilith talking to their dad asking questions about their family tree.
The Owl House speculators are gonna have a field day with this one, especially after Hollow Mind.
True
Aww~ so there's a possibility Hunter has living, non-crazy family? 👏🏽👏🏽🥺
Nope still crazy just nicer than belos 😂
Lol hopefully 😃😂
If we recall from when Gwendolyn was first introduced she said her mother (or grandmother i dont remember) knew a human. I believe that she's the girl in the portraits. But I'm most definitely wrong
Still wouldn't be old enough given Eda's canon age of mid to late thirties, and Gwendolyn's extrapolated age of roughly mid fifties to early sixties, by extension Eda's grandmother could at most be from 90-ish years ago. That's still over 300 years short.
She isn’t. Also Gwendolyn married into the clawthorne family. I doubt her great great grandma is the same girl in the photo.
@@moondivine2288 you don't know that she could have always been a clawthorne it was never stated that dell was always a clawthorne when Gwendolyn was talking about Cawthorne's being good carvers she could have been referring to one of her ancestors
Although it is true that men can take their wives last name it is only a few that do it. Also it has been pointed out that Dell resembles Philip’s brother. He even has the same type of palisman bird as Hunter. Dell carves the palisman and gave a seed to Eda.
Sorry I didn’t direct this comment to your response. My TH-cam app is being weird.
@@moondivine2288 First off, how do we know it wasn't Dell that married into the Clawthorne name? I mean, the demon realm doesn't have any issues with non-het folks, and at the very least enbie, aro, and ace identifying (though logically it can be reasoned that all identities and all SS&C orientations are accepted), and even in our real world close to no one in a western country forces the bride-to-be to take her husband's surname. He is just as able to take his wife's surname, or they can even combine their surnames in an agreed upon manner.
Second, the timeline simply doesn't match up for Eda's maternal granny to be the girl in the photo. At the oldest possible age to safely bring a child to term with no developmental issues during the pregnancy that granny can't be much over 90 years old if alive at all. I did the breakdown on why above.
Not to mention the running theme of birds among the members. Eda, Lilith, her mother and Del all have bird palismans, both Hunter and Del having cardinals specifically. Even Belos has a running bird theme in his mask and the staffs with the feathers. It's an interesting through-line they've maintained.
Even the Golden Guard’s mask follows the bird theming as it looks like an owl.
@@kalifogg6610 Ah, yes of course. Owls for the family! 👏
@@kalifogg6610 and the sigil of the town and golden guard are birds
I wonder if Lilith was set up from the beginning with the scroll. Maybe Belos knew Eda could become a threat eventually, so he used a scroll from the collector and switched with the curse Lilith meant to use
I always thought there were holes in Lilith's story. I doubt she got the idea to curse her sister on her own. She's not the shady type.
My theory was Belos kept an eye on the Clawthorne family for years and noticed each generation was more powerful than the last one. He feared the latest generation of Clawthornes, Lilith and Eda, could have the chance to overthrow him. When he learned they both wanted to join the Emperor's Coven, he and the collector came up with a plan to manipulate one of them and turn the sisters against each other. Eda being the most powerful of the two would've been the ideal pawn, but she was too wild, too unruly to control. Lilith on the otherhand was desperate. She wanted to join the Emperor's Coven more than anyone. So Belos and the Collector would decide to see how far she would go to get it.
I was thinking the Collector could appear to a younger Lilith claiming to be a manifestation of the Titan's will, or something like that, they would tell her she's destined to serve the Emperor, and they could help her. They lead Lilith to the scroll claiming the curse would only last a day. I like to think there were a couple times when Lilith was hesitant to use the curse but the Collector insisted that she go through with it. If Lilith knew the curse was permanent she wouldn't go through with it.
*Edalyn not Edith
So can we all agree that Emperor Belos is definitely one of the best cartoon villains of all time now?
Along with Bill cipher and Toffee
Thank Matthew Rhys for helping with that
Bill Cipher: Shake my hand
@@manindya6326
Belos: It’s a deal, from now until the end of time!
Heck yes. He had strong impression back in season 1 and he's only gotten better with subsequent appearances since.
I also saw a theory being passed around that Belos may have fallen through a time pool, explaining how Plillip could have disappeared so long ago and Belos only appearing 50 years ago as well as an explanation on how he got separated from the portal door and why it was found by Eda half buried. I'm sure the palismans played a part in prolonging his life, but I do think that time travel could also explain why he has been around for so long, and possibly why the Clawthornes haven't been warned about him, I'm sure Caleb's wife would've passed down some type of warning to her children and grandchildren about Belos if he remained in their time.
Tbh this is one of the most realistic theories I have seen. I agree sm on this one! It would make a lot of sense, and it's a very interesting theorie!!
Possibly but the random
Post season finale here and seeing Belos’s reaction to Hunter having flapjack and screaming Caleb. I’m super intrigued over Caleb’s side of the story such as meeting said witch. Said witch has that wild fluffy hair similar to that of Gwendolyn. Eventually we would get a different side of the tragic tale of Caleb whether it be channeled into Hunter’s dreams, Hunter encountering Gwendolyn and Dell, or Finding a diary of Caleb or his wife (similar to Lief leaving behind a letter in Amphibia)
From the looks of the female's witch hairstyle and dress, she's definitely a Clawthrone.
This is just a thought that popped into my mind, but what if the original Portal door Eda found, was actually made by Phillips brother and not Phillip/Belos himself? I know in Phillips journal he was trying to make one, but it makes me wonder how the hell he would ever misplace something so important like that. Idk, I know he’s old as fuck so you never know. But I thought it was interesting now, learning that his brother had skills in carving wood and seemed to be pretty crafty, if he was the one that originally made that door. & Since Phillip killed him and had to go into hiding, maybe he had to find a way to make a new portal himself and has been trying to either find it or make a new one this whole time. I mean why the hell would he want to stick around there if he hated witches so much in the beginning, if he already had that portal with him, long before Eda found it? I would think he’d want to go back to the Human Realm and tell his townsfolk or whoever about what he’s found and try to send out a mob. Idk, I could be stretching here but thought it was an interesting theory?
Also Eda found it in the dirt close to her house, that’s what really made me think, hmm maybe it really was Philips brother that made the original portal door.
@jf k the margins had a doodle of both brothers, and we now know Philip was an unreliable narrator.
I thought the same thing.
Perhaps after the witch-widow attacked Philip, she fled with the portal and buried it near her home.
She didn’t destroy it because it was something that her love made, but didn’t use it because she feared what would happen to their child if more humans came to the isles.
I speculated that they may be related after elsewhere and elsewhen seeing as Dell kinda looks like a mix between Phil and his brother. Now with some new info having come out after hollow mind I think this could definitely be the case. I’m so glad this theory is gaining traction now.
the fact that Belos named Lily part of his coven despite the fact that he already knew that she was the one who broke his nose implies that it does not matter how in the end Eda was not going to enter the coven but Lily would?
It was already theorized since the time-travel episode that Belos orchestrated the try-outs to only have one spot. Because in reality, why would you do that in a guild that wants to keep permanently expanding? Belos wanted Lilly to feel more pressured to do something to win.
Y'all her name is Lilith.
Ive always found weird that both the clawthorn family; emperor coven soldiers', golden guard's and emperor belos' masks; and gravesfield all had bird iconography. Now everything makes sense!
I feel like there might be more to belos’s motivation than just murder everyone. There’s some kind of end goal he has. The few ideas I have are, best way to get home, he wants ultimate power, the collector promised he would be reunited with his brother if he did it, but all of these feel like their missing something. Also, is it possible Philips brother started the journal than Philip/Belos continued it?
I kind of wonder how the clawthrone sisters will react if this revelation gets revealed in the series?
“When I was 10 years old, my goofy ahh uncle”
Well he said friend so I doubt they related
@@thomasdaywalt7735 they seem to be very clearly brother or raised together. Phillip is just not wanting to say brothwr because he probably no longer considers him his brother
,,you know kid…my great great great great great uncle is the guy that tried to kill all of the witches…,,
just realized that Belos’ brother may not have actualy been named “Hunter”
maybe Belos named the grimwalkers as “Hunter” or some other names to signify what purpose he made them for? like Hunter as in witch hunter?
When Flapjack suggested a name to Hunter when he was at Hexside the name was Caleb, so a lot of people think that Phillip's brother was named Caleb
@@jujublue4426 oh that would be so cool!!
bruh the owl house creators on point with one off lines and design details being lore important
IF this theory is true I hope Eda gets to keep Hunter. He needs a REAL parent and deserves a chance to live. Hunter and Luz have wonderful sibling energy too. I’m hoping Belos crumbles into dust a la Rasputin in Anastasia because he deserves a fate way worse than can be shown in a kid show.
With Luz fighting against belos it more likely fighting against eda's very distinct uncle for the grand scheme of things but still what a revele
Not Lilith and Eda's rocky relationship mirroring Philip and his brother downfall in their relationship. But Lilith (unlike Belos) put herself back on track and made amends with her sister, instead of killing her.
Mirrors and hidden themes hidden messages love and hate wonder and understanding toxicity a redemption These are what make up the gallery and paintings of the owl house
I've been keeping up with the channel since Steven Universe and your work does not go un noticed! As an animation major I especially appreciate what you guys do, keep up the good work!
just a thing, you actually missed one of the paintings, that shows a young Phillip (with no beard) arriving alone at the boiling isles.
I think that shows that maybe his brother went alone and Phillip thought that he got tricked or even kidnapped by a witch to go to the Boiling Isles, so he spend years trying to find a way to get there, only to find out that his brother willingly left and married a witch, a thing that Phillip couldn't accept, since, as you point out, they probably grew up in a time that hunting witches was the norm.
You realize it’s been over 300 years since Caleb died right? The Wittibane brothers were pilgrims. They came over on the Mayflower. Caleb is long since dead and most likely killed in his early to mid twenties. Philip killed his older brother bc he fell in love with a witch.
Hunter being part of the Clawthron family makes more sense since Belos is such a jerk and a monster to his own Brother, all because of him marring a Clawthron Witch.
I do hope that by the end of the series that Hunter chose to go to live with Luz in the Human Realm and became like her new aptoted brother. That are choose to stay with Eda at The Owl House taking Luz place when she go back to the Human Realm.
yes this, Camila can be Luz, Vee, and Hunter’s moms
I personnaly think it would be better if Eda adopts Hunter instead! With him being a clone of her ancestor, that makes Hunter a Clawthorne.
Or he could be adopt by Darius! That works too.
Or maybe be Luz's new love interest. Because if she goes back home and stays then she won't see anyone back in the demon realms anymore including Amity. So Luz will be lonely and sad but at least Hunter will be there for her to keep her company. Definitely a bittersweet ending and it just makes more sense that way. It's my opinion. It's not hurting anybody. So don't attack me with your hate.
I feel like hunter might die ngl- but i guess he has a possibility of living
@@MMMutatedRabbit istg if he dies…
Theories are the fuel to the pink and yellow fire
Here’s something people don’t mention, right before Belos killed Og Hunter, Og Hunter looked like we was about to hug Philip maybe he tricked (I’ll just call him Caleb) Caleb into believing he was supporting them
This is what I’m talking about! What an amazing, complex story. The Owl House is starting to feel like a modern, Grimm’s Fairy Tale, and I love everything about it! If only Disney gave it another season to explore more of this tragic tale. I just love how you can get show much out of images in the background. Not only that, but we’re seeing it from the antagonist’s perspective. Seriously, there should’ve been a full third season!
If Belos’ brother married into the Clawthorne family, does that make Belos Eda and Lilith’s many-great uncle?
Does Belos know that the Clawthornes are related to him? Would he bother learning the family name of the witch his brother loved?
If he is he’s really not that *great* of an uncle huh xD
I do think he knows!
He fact, knowing that him and the collector work together and that the latter created Eda's curse, it's very possible that Belos manipulate Lilith to curse her sister for personnal revenge on the clawthorne family.
To me it would be interesting if he knew but, the Clawthornes didn’t. If they knew they had a human ancestor Eda would have brought it up to Luz.
I think he knows but he resented his brother so much that he does not even consider them family. He looked down on Hunter and treated him more like a servant rather than an extension of his brother. I think that showed his true feelings toward his brother as they grew into adults.
Grunkle Belos
*I have a theory King will take Emperor Belos* *place as the new emperor*
the only i dont like is how King aint no screen time!seems like they just drop he story.
@@goliathmasters2816 yeah
King’s dad is mostly likely. King is too young, he is equal to a 8 year old. I’m not sure he’s ready for that responsibility yet.
I do still wish hunter a good chance to stay with eda and Luz and became a official clawthron
I have a theory that it was Philip's brother who made the portal, maybe with the help of his witch lover. We see that Philip lies in his journal in Elsewhere and Elsewhen to make himself look better. He writes how HE defeats the monster before they get into the chamber, using Luz and Lilith as bait. Who's to say he didn't take credit for the portal's invention? Philip could have found a journal about the creation of the portal, but knowing his brother (whom I know people are calling him "Caleb", but my fan name for him right now is "Arthur", that's what I'm calling him.), the journal has a few notes that Arthur did not include.
The Clawthornes could have gone into hiding with the portal, so Philip would try to make a new one, only realize there was something missing to make it work. Like maybe the door needed to be carved a certain way or Titan's blood from a specific location was needed for the key?
Or maybe it needed something of the creator to activate it? It opened when Eda brushed her hand against it. Maybe Arthur used a bit of his blood or maybe some hair to turn it on the first time. Then, in fear his brother would find and use the portal for evil, could have put some spell on it to prevent anyone, but his descendants from using it.
Philip is still in the mindset that humans still think witches are evil. He even called Luz "crazy" for telling Belos he was evil. Arthur may have known that the witch hunts were over and wanted to move on from the cruelty his people imposed on the humans that were killed as witches, while Philip may have believed those executed were real witches.
I also believe the Collector is pulling a Bill Cipher. Making Belos believe they are with him, only to reveal their true plan and destroy/enslave both worlds. Some have drawn Luz as the Collector, so I wouldn't doubt if she is possessed by them or maybe is the physical form of the Collector with her memories erased. I've seen that trope somewhere before and I think it could work.
@jf k Philip probably knew that his brother's writing was more sympathetic to the witches, so he copied some stuff from the other journal into his own. Makes since.
Also, he may have left the journal in the library after becoming Belos, knowing it would be key to his past self getting what he needs. So he could have kept the real journal and left the other.
It is a little strange that the door just happened to be buried so close to Eda's house, and why Lilith was allowed to keep her palisman.
Can you imagine the Collector nonchalantly revealing this to Eda and Lilith. Probably just by saying Phillip was their uncle.
**When you realize Eda is technically Hunter's (however many greats, I have no concept of time) granddad**
Think you mean hunter is edas great x amount grandad.
Here's the thing, the hair style in the clearest image of murdered brother and his bride, the brides hairstyle reminds me of Amity. Which lead to me thinking that Belos did eventually kill his sister in law, however we've seen that outside of grimwalkers Belos hasn't been killing kids.
My theory is that the baby got dumped in an orphanage with the name "blight" as 2 of the meanings of the word are as followed ""a thing that spoils or damages something.""" And ""have a severely detrimental effect on.""
This would also show why the Blight family is so well off and why the coven pays close attention to them.
but what about Luz and Amity..
@@imgay5868 I meant that Amity is a decendant of a human and a witch.
There’s about a 400 year span between current-times and past in the show, and the average life span I think is like 77.3
So if we divide 400/77, we get roughly 5 generations
OG Hunter is a great-great-great grandpa theoretically
A Generation is the time between birth and having kids so that is like any where between 13 and 20 generations assuming a majority had their kids between the ages of 20-30 years old
@@clarehidalgo ahh I didn’t think about that, I was v tired when I posted this
This relates back to my old theory that Hunter is related to the clawthornes. Instead of this theory, Dell could really be a Golden Guard grimwalker that was able to escape, AKA Philips Brother’s clone. Which could explain the scar and similar hairstyle.
I actually think Gwendolyn and Dell are both descendants of Caleb.
Dell's family came from a heritage of great palisman carvers (Caleb and his partner, they most likely taught each other. And the partner could've also taught their child).
Gwen mentioned her great-grandmother to have known a human.
What I feel like happened here is, Caleb's child reproduced and had 2 (or more) children. Child one wanted to be like their parent (Dell's side), child two didn't give too much care (Gwen's side)
Could also explain Eda and Lilith's personalities as carefree and try-hards to be the best.
I did the maths, and if this *theory* is actually right, Eda and Lilith should be 13% (12.5%) human/Wittebane.
Even the "curse of feathers and mud" (makes me to think that that Edas predesesor cursed Belos) and "betrayal of blood" make much more sense now that we know Belos past
I do like the theory, my main thought is currently on the original owner of hunter’s palisman, whether it belonged to the OG hunter or the witch he fell in love with
Also something I noticed was Dana said during her Reddit ama that birds were a Clawthorne thing. And I don’t think she would say this unless she was sure.
I want to believe that the owl house lines up with this year, 2022. My main reasoning is the calendar shown at the end of Reaching Out shows us that the month of August has the same weekdays aligned with the same numbers as we do this year's August.
Yooo, and in the finale when Luz tries to explain how good this world is and Philip says [Paraphrasing] "I feel sorry for your. You're so far gone. Perhaps it would be better to put you out of your misery." Implying that he wouldn't hesitate to kill another human who defends the boiling isles.
Belos’ brother would more likely be on Gwendolyn’s side rather than Dell’s because Gwendolyn tells Luz in Keeping Up A-Fear-Ances that her great (i forget if it’s only one great or two greats but that doesn’t really matter) grandmother told her about a human that lived in Bonesborough, leading up to Luz finding Philip’s diary in Through the Looking Glass Ruins. The timeline sort of makes sense because I’m pretty sure that Philip is only around 300 years old, which would work if Belos’ brother was the possible father or significant other to Gwendolyn’s great grandmother.
You guys are my favorite channel and I admire how hard you work!
Eda: Say sike rn
I think I may be able to pinpoint how many generations of Clawthorne have lived since the OG Hunter (Philip's bro, let's just call him Caleb) had a child with that witch. Starting from the 1660s, which is around the time Caleb was killed and the baby was born. There's an average of 4 generations in 100 years, and as I have stated before, the baby was most likely born during the 1660s. So 1975 - 1660 (I'm just making assumptions of when Eda was born. Dana said she was in her mid to late forties so this is the most likely. I'm making this off of Clawthornes who are blood-related. Sorry Luz.) = 315 years. Divide 315 with 25 (you know, since 100 divided by 4 = 25) and you get 12.6. So yeah. Eda and Belos are 12.6 generations apart. And if you round that 12.6 off to 13, then they are 13 generations apart. Which makes Caleb Eda and Lilith's great great great great great great great great great great grandfather, and by extension, Belos their great great great great great great great great great great grunkle. And if you add Luz and King (and maybe Hooty) to the equation, then they're the 14th generation of Clawthornes. So yeah. Let me know if I made any mistakes.
No, I think that you’re pretty much on the money, I’ve looked at my family tree and the 1660d is about where my twelfth great grandparents are.
Both of my grandmothers passed away in their eighties, one born in 1930 and the other in 1936, and they lived to see great grandchildren born that are either just older than Luz or younger so it is safe to say that you can have four generations in 100 years.
Finally! I was waiting for someone to post about this
It only takes about eight generations to get back to the 17th century. So Belos is likely Eda's great x8 uncle.
Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how frighteningly intelligent Belos is? He founded a city, built a portal to hop between dimensions, figured out how to clone people quickly and fairly easily, advanced the tech of the Boiling Isles to the point of the 21st century, and of course took over as emperor. This man has an IQ of no less than 190.
Since hunter is a clone that makes Hunter edas grand dad x8 too
I don't think you understand what a generation is "The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring". A generation is generally between 20-30 years. So 11-17 generations given Philip and his brother ended up in the boiling Isle about 350 years ago sometime after the Town Luz is from was founded in 1635.
@@clarehidalgo you don't have to get technical..
@@clarehidalgo A generation is ALSO the difference between parent and offspring, regardless of the actual years between them. A child born to someone at age 20 is the same generation as a child born to that same parent in their 40s. Let's say you have a sibling who is 20 years older than you, and they have a child who is two years older than you. Is the offspring of your sibling the same generation as you? On the timeline, perhaps, but as far as actual relationships go, your nibling is a generation AFTER you. Likewise, the child of your first cousin is your first cousin ONCE removed, meaning they are one generation below you. They are one more generation removed from your common ancestor than you are.
Basically, there can be as few as 14 years between generations and as many as 60 or more. Especially on paternal bloodlines. Few women are still popping out kids at 55 or older, but men can make babies practically until the day they die.
Most people's genealogies hit the 17th century between six and 10 generations back. Mine reaches that far back in about eight generations, and I'm in my 30s. I am also related to Sybil Ludington, who is my second cousin five times removed, and who was a teenager in 1778. Her great-grandparents, our common ancestors, were born in the mid 17th century. My Mayflower ancestors are only about 10 generations back, and they are roughly the same generation as the Wittebane brothers.
So I would put 11 generations as the maximum distance between Eda and Wittebane. And as few as seven.
@@AtarahDerek please you both chill the point was that eda is related to Philip by a large margin which everyone already knows as I said don't need to get technical. It's established by you both about x generation ECT . This was unnecessary information to a playful comment about a show
The cut at the end!!! So funny!
"So with all that said... I really do wish Eda was rea-"
god same
That could explain why lilith was the only person in the emperors coven to still have her palisman
I would like to add that in another painting, it looks like Phillip’s brother’s partner is attacking Phillip for presumably killing his own brother. Maybe that’s where all the sigils on Phillips arms came from? Maybe he was trying to figure out a way to make those coven sigils and he was testing it on himself? Idk man
Make sense
I love the daily uploads
If TOH is our world happening in 2020…Luz’s mother would consider the Demon Realm much safer. No Covid on the titan!
The knife looks like the one Eda used to cut apples for the Bat Queen's offspring while babysitting
Hmm it would make sense I cleanly believe that Phillips brother must have dated a clawthron then out of jealous and anger he must have murdered both his brother and his wife and took there child then the history of the grim Walkers up until hunter came into the boiling isles
Hi roundtable, it’s amazing how much effort you put into your work!! I was really a shocked when I first saw hallow mind, I kinda predicted most of the stuff revealed in it, but it still got to me. I wonder what will happen to hunter after that, uhh, traumatic experience that he had. Guess only time will tell. I know it’s already to late to extend season 3, and that I have a feeling the show is ending on a really good note through it’s story telling. But I just feel like there is more to tell through this show. Like, they could just have an epilogue season on Disney plus. Which is something that sounds like a good business move if you ask me. They could also continue through comics or spin off shows featuring Aminty (sorry for misspelling), Eda, or even King. While I am very much appreciated that Disney allows a season 3 rather than nothing at all, I just feel like this story has so much more potential to be offer. I guess I’m just feeling very emotional since this is one of the last story driven cartoons on Disney channel. Whether we do get something related to the owl house in the future or not, like a season 4 perhaps (would be a nice thought 💭 though) I’m really proud of all the owl fans out there. As well as the fans still trying to fight and support for the show. Thank you all, and I hope you all have a magical day🪄💫🦉And to you roundtable crew, thanks for always being there for us guys and sharing your theories with us. Never stop being awesome and I hope your videos are good as this one.
2:51- The World 6 Theme from Super Mario 3D World.
It's been said that Belos has only been emperor for 50 years so it could make since that his brother could've been Eda's grandfather
Has anyone made this connection:
Because we know time pools allow travel to the past, all that jazz... "The Good Witch Azura" is Luz, and someone written about her exploits, with creative license, and published it in the past...
They were a theory Good Witch Azura writer is Luz and Amity daughter from Future
The repetitive "Eda was real" at the end there was so ominous 🤣for no good reason
I reaserched for 3 days on collecting info from this episode...and now....all my theories coming together right infront of me!! Also nice vid
Belos never care about family. He used to until his brother fell in love with a witch.
Even if he knew about the Clawthorne family, he doesn't care about them.
Luz values her family while Belos doesn't it.
Okay but I'd LOVE if it's a Skywalker family drama kinda story🤣
The knife used in the picture of phillip killin his brother looks to be the same knife eda used to cut apple slices for the bat queens babies in season 1, episode 7 (lost in language) - this could be nothing and just ironic but i peeped that out so i had to at least say it once, lol.
I may be stretching far or whatever, but what If the witch that the Wittebane brothers encountered was the author of the Good Witch Azura book? She was able to travel through dimensions as theorized by Amity and Luz. Mildred (the author) then brought the brothers to the demon realm and later had a relationship with Philip's brother. That explains Eda's and her father's hair color and the odd spelling in the Good Witch Azura (whenever Boscha tried reading it).
I may not be right, but it was an idea that popped into my head while watching many videos about TOH
Also Real Azura might be from Blight family
Author might know her
Remember when Gwendolyn said that her Grandma once said there was a human who travel the boiling isles and his travels was donated to the library, this must me something like Rose and Jack from titanic buzz like telling a story from your suppose loved one
Then going to Flapjack, is he the Palisman of the OG Hunter and as such carving that specific bird type for the men of the Clawthorne family became a tradition as well? It would explain why Flapjack took to Hunter even as a Grimwalker and why Dell has the same style bird palisman that Flapjack is.
Caleb have Flapjack, Evelyn give him
I have been rabbling about this theory to my partner for months now and I screamed so much when hallow mind droped and "basically" confirmed it
I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THEORY VIDEO!
Thank you for making me feel vindicated! I had the same idea that Belos was related to the Clawthornes on the day Elsewhere and Elsewhen aired and everyone laughed! I can’t wait until this is confirmed!
*creepy Anne Boonchuy laughter
I love the moment to enforce positive self talk in the middle of this video. Damn right Kevin, you're smart and a great creator! Keep being a great source of positive mental health!
OG hunter built the door and belos/Philip used it to get OG Hunter back but then the rest is just history
On one of the videos where Luz gets her staff (in the finale, no big spoilers), someone made a theory humans are natural amplifiers of magic, and that's how Luz can fire a beam of destruction (and bring the Owl House to life with the help of her friends) without trying to, because all humans need is a source and a conduit, and they can amplify magic, hence this theory about Eda and Lilith, who are both powerful witches, being related to a human, which makes them this strong.
Honestly people were saying that was just saying that was just an inside of the creator but I feel there is a deeper meaning to it then that.
Your unapologetic attraction to cartoon characters is my favorite part of this channel, makes me feel normal about my thing for Korra
Something to point out, in "Keeping Up A-Fear-ances:"
Towards the end of the episode, Eda's mom (Gwendolyn) mentions her great grandmother told her that she knew of a human in the Demon Realm (that being Philip). What if her Great Grandmother was the wife of Caleb (the confirmed name for OG Hunter as of King's Tide)?
This could make sense because 3-4 generations could be made over the 3-4 hundred years between the time frames of the Late 1600s and Early 2000s in which the Owl House should take place. This would also make sense of why she would that him, being her Brother-in-law.
Tell me what'cha think?
Make sense
Thanks love your videos keep up the good work
Eda and Lilith would most definitely be shocked if it turns out Belos is a distant relative of their's. I think Belos always knew but hated the fact that his blood runs through the veins of witches.
Makes me wonder how many generations of clawthorne met with Belos?
There is also the fact that the witch that lured the brothers into the demon realm was named Evelyn! Name sounds a lot like Edalyn, doesn't it?
This whole theory, as well as the fact that Luz had previously offered Hunter to stay at the owl house in "Hollow Mind" and that Luz and Hunter give off some real sibling vibes makes me think that at the end of the series, Hunter will stay at the owl house with King and Eda! I mean, if this theory were true, then that would mean that Eda and Hunter ARE technically family!
Yes
Hunter and Eda are related
@@polishalastor142 I know that by now!^^ Sadly, they aren't aware of it.....
I can listen then yell "BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" all day man.
i came up with the idea that "OG hunter" is named caleb. this comes from the fact that flapjack gives the idea to hunter to say his name was caleb. just my headcannon tho
Can’t wait for your thoughts on Edge of the world
hunter did say he was born of witches couldn't use magic either this a mash up of the child referencing belos relationship with child he never knew.
Just a thought, though...maybe Philip's brother also made the Palisman Flapjack. Maybe that's why he has a connection to Hunter. 🤔
Or Evelyn , Caleb partner teach him How make palisman
Evelyn teach Caleb
So fun fact... I'm rewatching Young Blood Old Souls and Luz picks up the same crooked dagger seen in Hollow Mind. That dagger is in Eda's closet.
love your channel 🌸
I just had this theory while watching this:
I have a feeling that “The Day of Unity” will happen as Belos has said, but that after a minute everything will go down hill. Let’s say the Titan is reawakened, but instead of the Titan coming back, the Collector takes over its body, and with the powers of both the Titan and Collector, the Collector transports the Boiling Isles to the Human realm. (We see this as a possibility because when all 9 Coven Heads got to see Belos’s plan in the fire, it should the two worlds connected). But now in this realm wild magic is gone (because the human realm has no magically essence) and once every witch has been transported to the Human realm, Belos activates the Sigils making everyone lose there magic specified magic, which in doing so would leave the witches and the humans vulnerable the Belos and the Collector. (Which who now could be freed from the Titan or is in control of the Titan’s body) Now after all these events then we could see a cross over between shows if they wanted too, but let’s say they didn’t. Then what would happen? Would the only magic allowed in the human realm be palisman magic or would the worlds be close to an end?