Besides Kuhnau, "figuration prelude" comes at least also from Vivaldi/Torelli. RV 813, Andante, c. 1705-1710. It's not technically a "prelude", but it's just repeating figures in the same style as a Bach prelude. Copied by JS Bach as BWV 979, Andante.
These types of pieces form the bread and butter of Bach's first WTC. Although the style predates Bach (see J. C. Fischer, whose music largely inspired the WTC), his thorough exploration of the genre ties him to the figuration prelude more than any other composer of his time, I'd argue. I enjoyed your previous video on this topic and this one as well. Great video!
@@en-blanc-et-noir well, maybe in the next volume of “Eighteenth century music” one can find an article called “Yet another schema? The Fairy Prinner from Bach to Zelda” by @viniciusmj92 lol
Finally, a channel where I actually learn something each time! Thanks for sharing your knowledge (and sense of humor)...nice cameo by Walter White!!!LMAO
Great vídeo, Michael! I remember a few weeks ago when this kind of prelude was giving us lot of trouble in our lessons. I'm glad you were able to make such a nice vídeo out of it!
Great insights in the figuration prelude. It's presented as a good starting point for modern players to get into classical improvisation but it's interesting that in the repertoire there are not that many real examples outside of Bach.
So amazing as always, though I always feel inadequate, one day I have to go through all your videos again to practice everything thoroughly. Oh by the way, where is that promised baroque Scriabin??
There are more examples in the lute and theorbo world, Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata (just has the chords in the tablature) for 17th century example, Zamboni's Op1., No.7 and Weiss's Sonata no.34 D minor Prelude for 18th century.
Hey Mr., chill out, it's not that I'm tryin to hide anything! It is of course BUT that combo of the two sequential schemata is common formal pattern in italian and italian inspired trio sonatas. I conclude that the piece you mention is the only example you know that makes use of this combination and that's why you cry "stolen"... baroque music is to some degree generic so I guess claiming "dishonesty" or whatever copyright issues is inappropriate. sheesh
absolutely epic stuff as always. i'm just confused at 10:05 how is measure 4 a v of v? Fdim is V of C? and similar confusion for me in measure 9, how are the notes E, Bb and Db the V of F? actually im confused a lot in all your videos cuz i severely lack fundamental knowledge here but this is one particular section that i was hanging on to an understanding of besides those measures lol
Actually the main indictor for a dominant chord in ‚classical‘ tonal music of the major/minor era is the leading tone: in F Minor, chords that contain e natural are V chords because this e natural virtually prescribes the soprano clause of that key. The V as ‚dominant‘ historically emerged from the clauses. Thus a V/V chord in F Minor is a chord that contains b natural because this is the leading tone to the V. In baroque music there are no other dominant chords in use then the diminished triad (predominantly as 6th chord), dom. 7th including all inversions and the diminished 7th chord (including all its inversions) and the standard dominant triad - and maybe rare incomplete derivations from that. Everybody disagreeing with that concept didn‘t understand it properly LOL
Seriously, I still find it so much easier to memorize as chord progressions. I know that Bach did not conceptualize it like that but for my memory it's easier, I already have clear "chunks" for chord progressions in my mind and memorizing it as a figured bass would take me an eternity. I'm reading the books by Mortensen and Gjerdingen, annotating every musical example with the "forbidden" Roman Numerals 😅 I'm still looking for a convincing argument not to do so 😉
@AmeeliaK My argument would be that roman numerals do not explain the music of Bach, Beethoven, Chopin and other composers. You can stack a V to I how many times you want, you wont get a fugue or a symphony out of block chord thinking. An understanding of figured bass, rule of the octave, counterpoint, partimento, schema finally made the apparent godly talent of these composers into something understandable and trainable to some extent.
How do you manage to keep making *even more helpful and interesting* videos? This was absolutely wonderful, Michael, thank you so much!
appreciated, John! Many thanks
Besides Kuhnau, "figuration prelude" comes at least also from Vivaldi/Torelli. RV 813, Andante, c. 1705-1710. It's not technically a "prelude", but it's just repeating figures in the same style as a Bach prelude. Copied by JS Bach as BWV 979, Andante.
Jazz guy here….helpful AF
I mean that as a compliment
Does AF stand for Awesome Figuration?
thx buddy
lol
I love your playing tony
These types of pieces form the bread and butter of Bach's first WTC. Although the style predates Bach (see J. C. Fischer, whose music largely inspired the WTC), his thorough exploration of the genre ties him to the figuration prelude more than any other composer of his time, I'd argue.
I enjoyed your previous video on this topic and this one as well. Great video!
The “prinner” at the end with 9, 7 and “the cri” chords is so nice :D
For some reason it reminds me of fairies...
So that is a ‚prinner‘? The prinner must be the most unspecific schema of them all😂
@@en-blanc-et-noir well, maybe in the next volume of “Eighteenth century music” one can find an article called “Yet another schema? The Fairy Prinner from Bach to Zelda” by @viniciusmj92 lol
@@en-blanc-et-noir they say there are more prinners than stars in the sky 😅
@NichtWunderkind when I check out analysis papers of american schemata-guys this the impression that I get
9:01 casually flipping us all off lol
Finally, a channel where I actually learn something each time! Thanks for sharing your knowledge (and sense of humor)...nice cameo by Walter White!!!LMAO
Skriabin is soooo baroque… totally agree! lol… Picard meme is priceless!
this video is awesome, just thank you Michael !!
These videos are so helpful and incredibly insightful. Thank you
Great vídeo, Michael! I remember a few weeks ago when this kind of prelude was giving us lot of trouble in our lessons. I'm glad you were able to make such a nice vídeo out of it!
Cheers, Vinicius! Haha, that‘s right!
Great insights in the figuration prelude. It's presented as a good starting point for modern players to get into classical improvisation but it's interesting that in the repertoire there are not that many real examples outside of Bach.
Very informative! Glad you shared
Thanks for this video with lots of stuff to work on!
So amazing as always, though I always feel inadequate, one day I have to go through all your videos again to practice everything thoroughly. Oh by the way, where is that promised baroque Scriabin??
Great Video!
Thanks, Román!
Good
There are more examples in the lute and theorbo world, Kapsberger's Toccata Seconda Arpeggiata (just has the chords in the tablature) for 17th century example, Zamboni's Op1., No.7 and Weiss's Sonata no.34 D minor Prelude for 18th century.
holy moly, thanks, will check those
06:03 Cmon, you could throw in a “Based on first ‘little prelude’ of the Klavierbüchlein” there 😏
Hey Mr., chill out, it's not that I'm tryin to hide anything! It is of course BUT that combo of the two sequential schemata is common formal pattern in italian and italian inspired trio sonatas. I conclude that the piece you mention is the only example you know that makes use of this combination and that's why you cry "stolen"... baroque music is to some degree generic so I guess claiming "dishonesty" or whatever copyright issues is inappropriate. sheesh
Do you sir have a Spotify account? I’d love to hear your compositions!
Also great video I always learn new things every time I watch them thanks :)
thanks! Lol no spotify, sir
0:24 "Baroque Music = Bach" ... hahaha. Deswegen heißt der Stil ja auch Bach-Rock! 😎
der Käptn schiesst wieder den Vogel ab😂😂😂
Some TH-camr wrote a book about this I bought it, don’t know his name
LOL
@@en-blanc-et-noir the book is called improvising fugue
@@OttoVonBerga and what‘s your opinion on it? Doesn‘t sound like you read it in it very often…
@@en-blanc-et-noir was that in reference to my music ?
@@en-blanc-et-noir it’s good, it starts with figuration and partimenti I’m only that far it’s 450ish pages of exercises
How have you discovered the rule of the octave and schemas? Have someone told you about it? And how have you learnt that all? And how to learn it?
lol yeah, I‘ve heard about this😂✌️
@@en-blanc-et-noir well, that isn't the answer for my questions
absolutely epic stuff as always. i'm just confused at 10:05 how is measure 4 a v of v? Fdim is V of C? and similar confusion for me in measure 9, how are the notes E, Bb and Db the V of F? actually im confused a lot in all your videos cuz i severely lack fundamental knowledge here but this is one particular section that i was hanging on to an understanding of besides those measures lol
Actually the main indictor for a dominant chord in ‚classical‘ tonal music of the major/minor era is the leading tone: in F Minor, chords that contain e natural are V chords because this e natural virtually prescribes the soprano clause of that key. The V as ‚dominant‘ historically emerged from the clauses. Thus a V/V chord in F Minor is a chord that contains b natural because this is the leading tone to the V. In baroque music there are no other dominant chords in use then the diminished triad (predominantly as 6th chord), dom. 7th including all inversions and the diminished 7th chord (including all its inversions) and the standard dominant triad - and maybe rare incomplete derivations from that. Everybody disagreeing with that concept didn‘t understand it properly LOL
@@en-blanc-et-noir super interesting. never heard it explained that way, but it is definitely a much much more dynamic way of understanding it
First commentttt 🎉🎉🎉
Yeahyyy
“Bach chord progressions”😂😂😂
the guy probably would just call me a gatekeeper😂😂✌️
@@en-blanc-et-noirsure
@@en-blanc-et-noirI hope they offer free midi files to download
Seriously, I still find it so much easier to memorize as chord progressions. I know that Bach did not conceptualize it like that but for my memory it's easier, I already have clear "chunks" for chord progressions in my mind and memorizing it as a figured bass would take me an eternity. I'm reading the books by Mortensen and Gjerdingen, annotating every musical example with the "forbidden" Roman Numerals 😅 I'm still looking for a convincing argument not to do so 😉
@AmeeliaK My argument would be that roman numerals do not explain the music of Bach, Beethoven, Chopin and other composers. You can stack a V to I how many times you want, you wont get a fugue or a symphony out of block chord thinking. An understanding of figured bass, rule of the octave, counterpoint, partimento, schema finally made the apparent godly talent of these composers into something understandable and trainable to some extent.