Just been learning about Vanguard and Intek twins this past week. I have a 16 hp Vanguard on my generator and 25 hp Intek on the J.D. 155 C. Decided I better take the shroud off the J.D. after learning about them and take a look. 556 hrs. here on the farm and surprisingly it was very clean with just a little dust/oil build up in places. Carefully used a little carb cleaner, mostly gas and blew it nice and clean. I believe it has stayed clean cause the cooling air is ducted from the upper sides of the hood with little grass getting sucked in. Switched to full synthetic at 258 hrs. and since it looked clean so long just changed it again at 448 hrs. Maybe I was lucky with this motor but maybe it's because I always let it warm up at idle for several minutes and idle down for a few minutes before shutting down. So far it has always ran as it did brand new. Great video.
This may be the most complete and thorough explanation on TH-cam about how to resolve faulty valve guides by way of replacing cylinder heads on a B&S Intek V-Twin (and I think I've seen pretty much all of the other vids on this subject). I followed Michael's guide note-for-note and my machine's back to running as she was when new. Fortunately, I only had to replace one of the cylinder heads so I feel his pain -- $200 a pop isn't earth shattering but it's not exactly chump change either. One lingering thought that either you or a Commenter might be able to shed light on. Maybe I never paid attention to it but @19:16 you mention that, when fully restored, you were listening for ticking or tapping as an indicator that the valves were functioning properly. Well, in my case I do hear a bit of a ticking/tapping noise. It's subtle but definitely there. To me, it seems to sound the same as it sounded when it was running without issue before it became clearly obvious that there was a problem requiring a head replacement. My gaps are all correct. Could I be overlooking something?
Thank you so much for the feedback. Regarding your question of the sound, I was speaking mainly about comparison to the original sound. When the problem arose, the ticking/knocking became very loud compared to normal operation. I apologize if this was not explained clearly enough. After all, this was my very first DIY video 😀 At the time of this comment nearly seven years after publication of this video, the tractor has about 390 hours on it.
I also had this happen to me. I my self fixed it without removing the head cost was 16 dollars price of push rods.. I took the covers off springs removed spark plugs turned motor until piston was down all the way at bottom I then placed rope in cylinder until it was packed then turned motor until rope was tight up against loose valve. Now it was time to remove valve spring with a set of vise grips. I then placed a deep well socket over valve and tapped guide back into place. I then used a Philips screw driver to ping marks all around guides to hold them in place again. It works great I have 8 hours on it since repair good luck Great Video by the way
Great fix. I did not have enough confidence to try a permanent fix myself. Hopefully others will see your suggestion and try it before replacing their heads.
Thanks so much for posting that. I forgot about the rope trick,it's magic. I did the job. Used a punch instead of a screwdriver to peen. To re install the retainer keys I locked one on the bottom in its place on the valve stem with the pressure of the retainer/spring, Then I set the other one on top of the stem and slid it in place with a 7mm deep socket(over the stem,like when you tapped the guide back in) as I pushed the retainer back with vice grips. I'll update this post if it fails soon. Going to do a Kawasaki v-twin valve seal replacement next with the rope. Thanks frayedknott, and M Lorello for making the vid
Thank you so much! It is funny - I look back at this, my first DIY video, and find all kinds of things that get me saying "i should have reshot that!" Let me know what improvements to my production or ideas for projects you would like to see.
@@par64guy Found an '04/'05 Cub Cadet LT 1024, B&S 24 hp V-twin 50" deck here in my town in NE OK. Photos looked awesome. Said it was his elderly dad's and just wouldn't start. Went and looked at it Thurs about 10:30 AM.....BURRRRR! Coldest day of the year here in NE OK......18 deg. Pulleys on deck appear all straight, belts appear nearly new, tires all holding air....seat in showroom condition. battery gone, tried Turing engine manually. No go. Oil appears clean....but frozen. Binged on YT videos all day yesterday from fuel, carbs, electric systems, fuses and switches, deck removal to spindle and pulley replacement. Felt very confident I could get this running...called seller. Offered him $125 bucks cash...he accepted. Do I need it? Nope...my yard so small use my push mower. Am retired due to heart attack and live in a "retirement" area of my town..last summer, mowed a couple of lawns around me due to illnesses or vacations......hmmmmmmmm...was just thinking of flipping this mower....yesterday afternoon, had a call out of the blue from a property MGMT company that owns the Collage Apt complex and 4 empty lots 1 block to my south. Wanted to know if I was interested in mowing for them...must let them know by March 1st. Then, came across your vid last night.....think I have enough ammo to make this purrrrr like a kitten. Pick up mower on Sat. Will be near 60. Is 9:20 AM Fri, 2-14.....19 degrees.
@@keithintheplains6592 awesome. Let me know how things go! Check out my other videos on prepping lawn mower engine and tractor for use to help check off the list of maintenance items.
Great video, thank you so much! This was the best video on this topic TH-cam has, you did a fantastic job! One very small suggestion, which you probably did but may not have mentioned, lube the pushrods and rocker arm fulcrums and contact points with either oil or assembly lube so they don’t go in metal on metal. Just throwing it out there if someone who doesn’t know happens to read the comments.
Thank you so much! Yes, there are plenty of things about this video I can see doing better. Then again, it was my first ever DIY video 😀. Great tip about lubing the contact surfaces. I do not recall if I did and didn't film it or if I just plain forgot.
I also had the valve guide/bent push rod problem a couple seasons ago. It was caused by the fins on heads being clogged up and not cooling. I pushed them back in place and peened them with a sharp punch in 4-5 locations and so far so good. I do clean out the fins on the heads a few times a year now. I had a hard starting problem before that and it was because the valve lash was loose and there wasn't enough vacuum to run the fuel pump. My mower is a 1998 model and I mow a acre with it. It's not had a easy life. I have always added Lucas to the oil and I think that is the only reason that it's still alive. Thanks for sharing this info.
I just had to fix this same motor with this same problem for a neighbor. These engines have terrible quality control on the valve guides. His push rod fell into the crank, just like you said could happen, and somehow miraculously didn't cause any damage. These are some of the loosest valve guides I've ever seen. Rather than buying new heads for $150 a piece, I pressed the valve guide back to it's original position, and then from the outside of the head I drilled a hole through the aluminum and into the guide slightly. Then I removed the guide, and turned a channel into it on my lathe. Tapped the hole for a set screw, and then pressed the guide back into place. Using the set screw to retain the guide withing the channel. No more movement up or down. Runs great. Of course everything got high temp thread locker also. I had one guide that was so bad, that when I froze the guide to re-install it, I was able to push it back into place with my finger. Now that's just horribly out of spec. Luckily the set screws seem to be doing their job and the engine is still running like a champ for now.
Wow! Very innovative way to give it a permanent fix. Very cool! Yes, I agree on your quality comment. When I was researching the problem before producing my video, I found that there are all kinds of issues with these engines, including twisting of the crank case in higher horsepower engines. It is sad because older generation engines were workhorses that were very hard to kill. My 1962 Snowbird ran like a champ with just a little TLC after rescuing it from sitting for 25 years in a shed.
@@par64guy It is sad, especially coming from an American company that's been making motors for years. Funny thing... In between my last comment and this one, my neighbor asked me to look at another one of his riders because the deck wasn't moving up and down. So I walked over there and rode it to my garage and noticed right away that it sounded like it was running on one cylinder. (27hp briggs intek) So I pulled the valve cover and...... of course the intake push rod had fallen out of place. The culprit??? The rocker arm stud came loose... lol Jeeze, he needs to stop buying engines put together on friday. Luckily, nothing was damaged and I was able to torque everything down and reset the valve clearance and it's running great.
Great job Grant. I understand exactly what you did. So far I haven't had a guide move but I was thinking the guide should have been made with a shoulder machined in it so it couldn't move up. Could the guide be made out of steel with a shoulder? Could you turn a grove for a circlip then press it back in with Red Locktite? The head is junk so there's not much to lose by doing what you did or what i'm thinking of. Some are trying to prick punch to hold the guide in place but I think your way or my ideas would work better. It sounds like keeping trash from causing high temps keeps the guids in place. Thanks for your input here.
@@jefffrayer8238, one of the reasons I went with the channel in the guide and a set screw, was because I've heard that some people have had their guides actually drop down instead of up like my head was. So I figured this would hold it in one place and not allow up or down movement. 5 tanks though it and it's still holding up just fine. I honestly wasn't expecting much in terms of longevity with this fix, but it's proving to be a good solution.
Thanks for your help....excellent information !!! During my tear down, I discovered a nest with 3 overbaked mice in it. Both valve guides had worked their way out and both pushrods were bent. $230 bucks later, and I'm mowing grass again.
hmmm, baked mice...yummy! NOT! I am glad the video helped guide you (no pun intended) through the repair process. Just think, that probably would have been a $500 bill minimum if you had to bring it in to have it serviced.
@@par64guy thank you. I didn't think so, but somebody on you tube said that they had to remove complete motor due to some bolts access of intake manifould. I need to remove one cyl. Head because when engine runs approx. every 4-5 seconds will have puff of blue smoke under one cyl head but exhaust smoke is good and clear. So I will see what I can find once I remove that cylinder head. Again, thank you very much for your kind respond!
Very good video, excellent fix. I'll use this as a tutorial ,I have it saved. Just happened to mine same scenario only I had a mice nest. I used the air hose and blew it out regularly but the mice made a condominium inside the cover. It was about 3 in tall and 10 inches long.😂 Today's cost for this job is around $400 though if you can find the parts. It appears as though Briggs & Stratton went chapter 11
Mike, I learned a lot by watching your video. I had the exhaust valve bent twice in less than a year on the fuel pump side. Replaced it once, but never checked the valve guide. Can you guess what I found. Now with your knowledge and a little wrench love I'm sure this issue will be behind me. Thank you....Pete
Great video Michael. I am working on a 26 HP engine with the same clicking and knocking sound. Push rods look okay, but maybe the valve guides are coming out. Will check it out now that Ive seen your video. Good job!
In my opinion you've done a great job of explaining what the issue is and how to not only fix the issue but also prevent this issue down the road. I haven't looked to see if there is a parts list but I'm hoping that there is. Updated: I did find your parts list useful. I am looking for the correct gaskets and noticed you did get new rockers. Could you add them to the parts list please. Ty again and now all I need to do is wait on my money tree to grow. Lol
Thank you so much for the compliments. Regarding the individual part numbers, I did not break out every part number because the cylinder head kits I ordered came complete with valves, springs, gaskets, and rockers.
Great video. I have same problem. Never did my maintenance on cleaning the fins on the heads. Also ended up with bent push rods. Have a new head on order and pushrods. Thanks for your video.
Thank you. Sorry to hear you had to buy a new head too. It is an expensive lesson to learn with these engines, especially with all the shrouds that make cleaning more challenging and time consuming.
The set screw and adj. screw seems to work just the opposite on other engines. I have had to loosen the set screw and turn the nut to loosen or tighten the valve.
The rod most likely fell into the crank case. Running the engine risks catastrophic damage. If the steel exhaust rod fell in, then you could try to fish it out using a magnet on a string. Unfortunately, most likely, you may need to remove the engine and open the crank case to retrieve the rod. If no damage has been done, then you may be able to save the engine.
I did not have the exact manual for my series engine, but I did have a manual for other OHV models. Looking at several similarly sized engines, their head torque was 220 in-lbs and rocker arm stud was 100 in-lbs. I used those values.
I ordered mine from Amazon because with Prime I got them faster than the local shop said if they ordered them. But, if possible, try to support your local businesses. The guides on mine do protrude from the casting, but I do not recall what the specification is. If I recall correctly, they are flush with the casting on the valve side and protrude maybe 0.125"ish on the rocker side.
Great video.. My question is why do both push rods bend when only the exhaust guide slides out? I can see that one bind, but the intake works fine. Thanks again.
Good question. I can only guess that if only one guide is out of position, causing that one's rod to bend and pop out of position, maybe the bent and displaced rod hits the other leading to damage. perhaps other viewers may know more than I on this theory.
My theory is that if the head was hot enough for the exhaust guide to slip out, then the head probably expanded enough to cause binding on the intake side also.
@@darrellpatton4008 Good theory - maybe the guide did not have to slide out to cause a problem. If the dimensions changed enough, it could cause the valve itself to bind, thus causing excessive force to be applied to the pushrod. Very interesting.
How about excess pressure in the combustion chamber because the exhaust valve didn't open, causing extra force on the push rod trying to open the intake valve? Just a theory. I know those rods are kind of weak. Anybody else have a theory? interesting topic
Rocker arm hits the guide. Pushrod is the weak link in that valvetrain. It bends when the rocker arm is mechanically stopped by the protruding valve guide.
@@par64guy Thanks alot now I have to figure out how to set that or do you think I should just buy a new head sorry for so many ?it gets pretty frustrating at times cause ive tyres everything
@@nancymounts7095 if the valve guides are out of place, you can push them back using various techniques on other people's videos (one is a hammer or arbor press and ratchet socket). Then you can lock them in place by peening them. I opted to buy new heads because I did not have confidence in my ability to do the peening operating.
I added a bit of engine oil to the ends of the rods where they touch the lifters and rocker arms. I am not sure if it is required, but I figured better safe than sorry given the amount of work I was putting into the effort.
Good video , my Engine ran backwards the other day , found a bent intake pushrod and the exhaust pushrod is missing, must have gone down the oil drain hole, ugh, yeah tell me why the engineer can't design a 90° shelf in that drain backs of the pushrod can't fall all the way into the sump
Ugh, sorry to hear that! There are a few videos where people are able to fish it out of the oil fil tube with a magnet. If it is bent enough, then you will have to disassemble the engine to retrieve it. Again, check some if the other video channels on how to do that.
@@par64guy yes, tried with magnet thru the one drain hole in the heads no go, tried thru oil fill tube its not traveled that far and something seems to be blocking there, can see the pushrod at the oil drain exit, magnet grabs it but cant get it to turn , may try removing the heads, or may buy the 27 HP engine and gain 5 HP !
I have had bent push rods on my V-twin 25hp a couple of times . I had 2 different people work on mine . They both are worthless . They replaced the push rods but nothing more . It still doesn't run quite right . And it burns about 1 quart of oil after 4 hrs of run time . Some times after I idle it down and shut it off it back fires . Do you think I have the same problem ?
The symptoms for my engine were increasingly louder tapping sounds which was the rocker arms hitting the valve guides which were sliding out of position. I suppose the backfiring could be caused by an incompletely closed valve, bad fuel, or improper fuel/air mixture. Remove the valve covers and inspect the valve guides to see if they are the cause of your bent rods. I am willing to bet you will find one or more out of position. The fix there would be to either replace the cylinder heads or repair them by pressing the valve guides back into position and then peening them in place with a nailset and hammer (other people have published videos on how to do this). I do also recall when doing my research that some model year larger HP Intek engines had a design flaw where the entire crank case could twist under heavy loads, leading to misalignment of critical components and poor operation.
@@par64guy Can't thank you enough for your reply . What would you do if my crank case twisted and how would I know ? My DLT is about 12 yrs old . Should I replace the engine or buy another mower ?
@@rudy52350 If the pushrods are bent, I would recommend checking to see if the valve guides are out of position. If so, you can repair the engine. I recommend researching the twisting crank case issue to see if your model engine is susceptible to the problem. I think the twisting was more of a temporary flexing issue and not a permanent "bent out of shape" issue.
You need to check the camshaft. A not uncommon cause of these bent or broken push rods is due to lobes on the camshaft wearing down. I don't know the reason for the excessive camshaft wear. Common symptoms are weak engine power and backfiring. On mine it was the the cam lobe closest to the camshaft sprocket. Easy replacement but you have to remove the engine and approach it from the the crankcase side.
Awesome video, very informative. I found, on my engine, 24 hp intek v-twin, the one steel exhaust push rod dropped and was sitting below the rocker arm, luckily didn’t disappear in the engine. Is there a video, anywhere, as to just installing new push rods, alone. And any process of doing so? This would be my first time doing this, and I just want to make sure I don’t affect timing issues, and the like.
Thanks for watching my video. If the rod was bent, then I suspect the exhaust guide has slid out a bit and is preventing the rocker arm from fully depressing, thus causing the rod to bend enough to have popped out of position. As far as just replacing the rods, you can skip to the installation of the rods and valve clearance adjustment section of the video.
If memory serves, yes. You should be able to confirm by looking up the part numbers listed in the video. A few people also commented about using steel in both positions which leads me to believe they are indeed the same length.
I just pulled the rocker cover and the exhaust valve push rod wasnt there. Is there a easy way to tell if it is in the crankcase without tearing the whole engine down? Also is a online service manual available for Model 44557? any help is welcome. thanks
Push rods cannot fall out of the engine, so unfortunately, that means if it is not under the rocker cover, then it must have fallen into the crankcase. In some previous comments, I linked to some other videos where people remove the dipstick and attempt to fish the push rod out of the crankcase. If you cannot do it, then opening the crank case may be your only option (also referenced in a previous comment). Good luck! I am not sure if there is an online manual. Hopefully you will find it with some Googling.
@@par64guy Thanks Michael I did find it in the crankcase and luckly nothing else was damaged. I didnt even try to fish it out. Just pulled the engine. Thanks again for getting back to me so quickly and good luck with your channel.
I have a Briggs and Stratton 16hp vanguard horizontal shaft and i think it did this. Sounds like its running on 1 cylinder. W Would it pretty much be the same process?
I believe the Vanguards are similar, so the process should be similar. To address your earlier question, the rods bent because the valve guides slid out of position. I showed that as best I could in the earlier part of the video. When the rocker arm tries to actuate the valve, it hits the valve guide. The push rod ends up being the sacrificial lamb. Root causes are somewhat of a poor design combined with the mistake on my part of not keeping the cooling fins sufficiently clean. My solution was to replace the heads as I did not have confidence in my ability to reset the valve guides and peen them into place.
Hi Michale, i have a briggs 23hp commercial v twin on my new Ferris zero turn and im starting to hear a knocking noise coming from the crank area (the back of engine) is this normal? i hear sometimes the hydraulic lifters can go bad if it has sat around for a while. It has only done 9 easy hours. Cheers.
Knocking noises are never good. I trust your oil level is good and filter is not clogged? When my push rods bent, the noise was mostly near the heads. I wonder if something is going bad with the crankshaft, cam shaft (possibly lifters) or oil pump. Perhaps someone with more experience than I could give you a more definitive answer. I suggest some additional searches to see if the is a better way to diagnose before the engine self destructs.
@@par64guy thanks for the reply, yeah the oil level and all that is all good, the motor has only done 9 hours. The noise probably gets a little Louder as the engine heats up. I feel like it could be lifters but either way this is very annoying that this is happening already as I'm sure a large portion of the motor would have to be pulled apart for the warranty repair and that's always a worry as you know whoever does the repair is not going to do anywhere near as good of a job assembling it as briggs have done.
I bought them off Amazon, but if you have a local store that you can support, then I recommend going there. Use Amazon's prices as a comparison to avoid price gouging.
Id like to point out about the Exh vs Intake Rod position. In this video it is clear that this mechanic put the Al rod in the top and the Steel rod in the bottom. I believe it is the same on my Briggs OHV about a 2015....but many youtube vids comments claim the intake is the bottom. Maybe the orientation was changed in what recent year? Anyone?
Even that isn't a sure thing Michael...at least not on all Briggs OHV engines. I have a 12.5 HP Briggs Vanguard twin from around 1994-95 and just took the rocker cover off today to find a bent exhaust valve push rod and a stuck valve. I was experiencing fuel blowing back into the air cleaner and a totally fouled plug on one cylinder. I freed up the valve in its guide with PB Blaster and then looked at the manual/parts list for my engine. It specifically lists the steel push rod for the intake and the aluminum for the exhaust. From the reviews I've read about the "new" part numbers that superseded the original parts, the updated exhaust valve rod is "beefier", but still aluminum. So at some point anyway...between the Vanguard of 1995 and your newer Intek, they flipped the steel and aluminum rod orientation. I'm really hoping the new rod cures my problem, as everything else looks to be in order. Thanks for posting a nice, clear informative video though. Very helpful!
Thank you for the additional info and compliment. That is very interesting that the rods were swapped at some point. I wonder if someone in Engineering determined there was a good reason such as a benefit due to differing amounts of thermal expansion between the steel and aluminum that made a difference and swapped them sometime after your model year was made.
That's exactly what I was thinking Michael. I'm also thinking that the aluminum might "give" a bit more if something does go wrong, thus lessening the chances of further damage. Anyway, replacing my bent rod and freeing up the sticking valve totally solved my problem! Once I set the valve clearances last night and put everything back together, I started it up and it now runs better than it did when I bought it used last fall! No more fuel spraying into the air filter and about twice (go figure!) the power that it had when running on only one cylinder! Thanks again for your help Michael!
If I remember the manual, 0.004 to 0.006 was listed, so I picked 0.005. I remember having it too far off causing the the compression relief mechanism to not work and the starter having trouble turning the engine over.
@@par64guy yes...ive adjusted my valves 2 times since I've had my mower.....this last time I actually set the intakes at .004 and the exhaust at a loose .004...more like a snug .005...and I swear it runs better than ever and starts better....before I went with.005 medium smugness on both valves.....it did fine but seems to do better with the last setting....it seems to start faster.oh well....lol.....great vid ...keep them comin...great job.
I just want to point out while your exhaust valve guide did slide up, even when it came from the factory it did not look like the intake guide did. The intake and exhaust use two different styles of valve guides. This trips a lot of people up and makes them sometimes believe their exhaust valve guide has slid out when it actually hasn't. Again, obliviously yours really did come out.
Thanks for clarifying that! Yes, in my case, the bent push rod was a giveaway that the guide had slid out, but for others, make sure you check out your own engine.
There's no real reason to think about it like that, because people aren't looking at the position of their valve guides at all unless they have reason to be in there doing more than adjusting lash, like if their pushrod bent. I doubt that it trips up anyone.
I know. Unfortunately with this video being my first one, I had not figured out how to hold the camera while I did the work. Later videos are better as I had started using props to hold the camera while I worked. Maybe next time I have the engine open, I can record a clip to show everyone.
I used the numbers from the single-cylinder Intek manual which I had gotten to repair my father-in-law's 17HP Intek-powered tractor. Checking through all engine series in that manual, just about every one specified a cylinder head bolt torque of 220 in-lbs which is what I used for my engine. I have had the tractor for 13 years, so I suppose I should pick up the manual for my engine at some point :)
@Michael Lorello got a John Deere L120 Automatic Same thing Running on 1 cyl.. do i need to Drain the Oil Before i take the OHV plate off or can i remove it with the oil still inside the engine?
noah plotkin you can remove the OHV covers and even the cylinder heads without draining the oil. I have even run my engine with the OHV covers off. Oil splashes a bit, but it was to get a good view of everything working.
@@par64guy found the Exhaust Push Rod in the Crank Case... is it safe to leave the Rod in the Case...? Don't Have Money or Time Disassemble Crankcase..
noah plotkin definitely do not leave the push rod in there. With so many moving parts inside the crank case, the engine will most likely be damaged beyond repair if it tangles with anything.
Since the exhaust rod is steel, you can try using a magnet. I have seen other videos where people remove the oil dipstick riser and use a magnetic flexible grabber to pull the rod out. If it got bent by the internal moving parts, then that method may not work. Unfortunately, leaving it in there will most likely cause the engine to completely self destruct if it gets entangled with the crankshaft, camshaft, or governor components. It will be a case of pay some now or pay a lot later. In what city are you located? Maybe some other viewers are near you and might offer to help with the project.
I also had the valve guides move out of place on my B&S Vanguard Vtwin. I stuck them in a press and drove them back in. I set valve lash, re-assembled, and the loud valve noise went away. Next time they ought to be welded because I have a feeling it will happen again. I replaced the original B&S Vtwin due to a cracked block (video on my channel) and that engine also had valve guides out of place. I have a video I can share of the valve guides being pressed in as well. Endless cylinder problems...
This was my first video, and I did not have a tripod to hold the camera. As a result, a lot of the work requiring both hands was not recorded. I have since learned and bought a tripod!
Well there is some truth to swapping the aluminum to steel pushrod. I wouldnt replace the steel with aluminum due to heat. Aluminum is intake, steel is exhaust. Now if u ever have the same problem an u hav used steel u can cause more damage. I wouldn't do it but i might if i was in a pinch..
It appears to be a result of the combination of less than excellent design and poor maintenance on my part. I did not ensure the cooling fins were kept clean. The heads heated up more than they wanted to, resulting in the valve guides sliding out of position. The rocker arms hit the guides, causing the push rods to become bent. An expensive lesson learned on my part!
Im not sure I agree with that 100%. I lean more towards an inferior design, What I would ask from some experienced Briggs mechanics is: Has there been manufacturing changes regarding the 'valve guide' over recent years. My Briggs guides slid out and bent rods at 100 hrs (Ztrak mower). A shop owner told me that is way too early (100 hrs) to have problems with valve adjustment and rods. Yes, it is, therefore I am going to into research mode once again and try to get to the bottom of who makes a more dependable engine with stamina, not the cheaper version mediocre one? Kubota, Briggs, Honda, and which mower are they on? Too bad Deere, I really thought this ZTrak bagging power Flow system was going to be the cake. But it isn't.
I have the pleasure of trying to figure this out while my engine has LESS than 20 hours. Starting to think certainly engine design plays a significant role in this. Not to disagree with your excellent work Michael Lorello. I do live in the heart of Texas, so heat can be intense.
I tend to agree. As a product development engineer (electrical) in my day job, I tend to get very analytical and curious about root cause. Some of my research into the initial symptoms identified a flaw in the larger HP Briggs engines where the crank case would actually twist slightly under high torque conditions. This twisting could throw off critical alignments and lead to bad things happening. My guess is someone in a higher pay grade told the mechanical engineers to cut cost by reducing material, or rush to meet the almighty launch schedule, maybe resulting in a skipping of some design due diligence corners like tolerance stack-up analysis or above and beyond thermal and torque cycle testing which could have revealed latent and fatigue failures. Speculation on my part, but not out of the realm of possibility.
Oil blowing out your fuel pump could be a blown head gasket. My father-in-law has a 17 HP single cylinder Intek engine which suffered those same symptoms. The engine, in my opinion, has a design defect where there is too much space between the head bolts, preventing sufficient pressure between the head and block. The hot combustion gasses eventually wear through the gasket in that section. This happened after around 250 hours of operation, and a new gasket fixed the problem, hopefully for another 250 hours. In my case (21HP V-Twin), the bent push rods caused a knocking sound which was also accompanied by uneven engine operation because one cylinder was failing to fire reliably. I hope this helps you solve your engine issue.
Good question. I can ask a friend of mine who works for a repair shop to see what they would charge so you would have a ball-park. If you want to take a shot at doing it yourself, donyboy73 does a great job walking through the process. th-cam.com/video/ZQj6ZaFu490/w-d-xo.html
@@par64guy You did a great job and with a tripid you would do so much better and easier. I've bought several regular tripods used for next to nothing. Even got a used one that stands about 10 inches tall but will easily fit in my pocket. Great job and hope it keeps runnig great.
Definitely, Jeff. This was my first video. Since then, I did find a tripod at a tag sale for $5, and I bought a phone mount adapter and lavalier microphone from Amazon. I also started incorporating voiceover when my live narration was crap. Its moving along, slow and steady. Thanks for watching!
I am not sure, but I know too much oil is not good for any engine. I remember once when I was a teenager, I overfilled the lawnmower. It started billowing out white smoke from the exhaust until I drained it back to a normal level.
Great idea. Unfortunately, I do not own a welder nor do I have the skills to perform such an operation. However, your idea could steer others who watch this to a potentially much cheaper alternative to cylinder head replacement.
Remove the top cover and clean the crap out of the engine heat shielding Heat is causing all of these problems It’s not the engine fault it’s the owners Lazy people need to pay the high prices
I did call myself out for not cleaning the cooling fins well enough. I will definitely own that mistake - all $300 worth of it! But, there are quite a few known issues with the Intek engines that make it easier to fail. It's been five years since the repair, and I make a point to use a leaf blower after each mowing to clear off the engine and mower deck. So far so good.
Only 29 hours? YIKES! Is there some other underlying cause such as insufficient oil level or excessive dirt built-up or issue with the airflow through the cylinder heads? It may also be worth looking up your particular model engine to see if there is a known issue with it? In any case, give the repair a try. The rods do not cost too much.
They do have some sort of compression relief system. If the valve guides are not adjusted properly, the engine will not turn over or will severely struggle. I learned that the first time I adjusted the valves when I messed up and let one of the adjustment nuts twist a bit as I tightened the lock nut.
You forgot to mention that this is a major design flaw from the manufacturer! It's happened to me twice! Engines built in the 60's, 70's and 80's NEVER DID THIS!
You're right. I did read about this susceptibility being design related when researching the symptoms. Another flaw on larger HP engines was also twisting of the crankcase under load which caused similar failures.
No need to replace anything . press them back in with some locktite and peen the hell out of them and all is good . anytime you open these motors replace that stupid aluminum pushrod with a steel . have seen them break from wear just from dirty oil . I know keep oil clean . but what the hell
JIM ECKENRODE in this case, it was the valve guides that slid out of position, jamming the rocker arms and bending the pushrods. My research into the problem revealed this is a common problem with the Intek engines, aggravated by poor cleanliness of the cooling fins (my fault). The valve seats were still in good shape, so if i had decided to peen the guides in place, I most likely would not have had to lap the valves. Lesson learned here is make sure those fins are clean!
I have the same engine and I have cleaned the fins but there really wasn't much there but dust. I have watched many of the video's of the same problem you posted but I am still not clear on the valve guides. Next time I adjust the valves I will look a little closer. thanks for the response
Replacing the head is not a solution,that is a 300.00 dolars every two years plus labor it cost me twenty dolars and will never had a this problem again
I settled in on the replacement option after researching the problem and seeing that the most common long-term solution was replacement. Peening was an option, but I did not have enough faith in my ability to do that to create a long enough term solution to make it worth the effort to take everything apart. Mainly, I was worried about not doing it evenly and causing one or more valves to not sit perfectly centered in the opening, thus impacting the seal or long-term wear on the vale stem. Granted, my research may not have been exhaustive enough. Please share your $20 fix as it may save others a lot of grief. In the event they do need to replace the heads, at least there are several videos, mmine included, that show how to do it.
Hey DUDE. Great video. TY. I think I have the same issue. My rattle and missfire or surging is coming from the lower right exhaust. Plus the Rocker Cover has carbon/exhaust.
My guide on the top valve is out and the push rod is bent. Can I re insert the valve guide and straighten the push rod without new parts? If I have to replace, what is the cost?
You could try to push the valve guide back into the correct position with a socket. I would recommend peening it to reduce the chance of it sliding out again. Several videos show how its done. I recommend checking out Donyboy73. I found his videos when researching for this video. Were the fins dirty and reducing airflow, thus causing and overheating condition? Just asking to get root cause. I'm not sure you will get the push rod straight enough, but you could try. They are not that expensive, so it might not be worth your time to fight with it.
Here is the link to Amazon where i bought my rods. One Cylinder's worth was $15 www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DUK4V9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thank you for the invoice taking one of these engines apart and put it back together.
Just been learning about Vanguard and Intek twins this past week. I have a 16 hp Vanguard on my generator and 25 hp Intek on the J.D. 155 C. Decided I better take the shroud off the J.D. after learning about them and take a look. 556 hrs. here on the farm and surprisingly it was very clean with just a little dust/oil build up in places. Carefully used a little carb cleaner, mostly gas and blew it nice and clean. I believe it has stayed clean cause the cooling air is ducted from the upper sides of the hood with little grass getting sucked in. Switched to full synthetic at 258 hrs. and since it looked clean so long just changed it again at 448 hrs. Maybe I was lucky with this motor but maybe it's because I always let it warm up at idle for several minutes and idle down for a few minutes before shutting down. So far it has always ran as it did brand new. Great video.
This may be the most complete and thorough explanation on TH-cam about how to resolve faulty valve guides by way of replacing cylinder heads on a B&S Intek V-Twin (and I think I've seen pretty much all of the other vids on this subject).
I followed Michael's guide note-for-note and my machine's back to running as she was when new. Fortunately, I only had to replace one of the cylinder heads so I feel his pain -- $200 a pop isn't earth shattering but it's not exactly chump change either.
One lingering thought that either you or a Commenter might be able to shed light on. Maybe I never paid attention to it but @19:16 you mention that, when fully restored, you were listening for ticking or tapping as an indicator that the valves were functioning properly. Well, in my case I do hear a bit of a ticking/tapping noise. It's subtle but definitely there. To me, it seems to sound the same as it sounded when it was running without issue before it became clearly obvious that there was a problem requiring a head replacement. My gaps are all correct. Could I be overlooking something?
Thank you so much for the feedback. Regarding your question of the sound, I was speaking mainly about comparison to the original sound. When the problem arose, the ticking/knocking became very loud compared to normal operation. I apologize if this was not explained clearly enough. After all, this was my very first DIY video 😀
At the time of this comment nearly seven years after publication of this video, the tractor has about 390 hours on it.
I also had this happen to me. I my self fixed it without removing the head cost was 16 dollars price of push rods.. I took the covers off springs removed spark plugs turned motor until piston was down all the way at bottom I then placed rope in cylinder until it was packed then turned motor until rope was tight up against loose valve. Now it was time to remove valve spring with a set of vise grips. I then placed a deep well socket over valve and tapped guide back into place. I then used a Philips screw driver to ping marks all around guides to hold them in place again. It works great I have 8 hours on it since repair good luck Great Video by the way
Great fix. I did not have enough confidence to try a permanent fix myself. Hopefully others will see your suggestion and try it before replacing their heads.
Thanks so much for posting that. I forgot about the rope trick,it's magic. I did the job. Used a punch instead of a screwdriver to peen. To re install the retainer keys I locked one on the bottom in its place on the valve stem with the pressure of the retainer/spring, Then I set the other one on top of the stem and slid it in place with a 7mm deep socket(over the stem,like when you tapped the guide back in) as I pushed the retainer back with vice grips. I'll update this post if it fails soon. Going to do a Kawasaki v-twin valve seal replacement next with the rope. Thanks frayedknott, and M Lorello for making the vid
Five years later - is your repair still holding? I hope it is!
Out-freakin'- STANDING DYI video!
Thank you so much! It is funny - I look back at this, my first DIY video, and find all kinds of things that get me saying "i should have reshot that!" Let me know what improvements to my production or ideas for projects you would like to see.
@@par64guy Found an '04/'05 Cub Cadet LT 1024, B&S 24 hp V-twin 50" deck here in my town in NE OK. Photos looked awesome. Said it was his elderly dad's and just wouldn't start. Went and looked at it Thurs about 10:30 AM.....BURRRRR! Coldest day of the year here in NE OK......18 deg. Pulleys on deck appear all straight, belts appear nearly new, tires all holding air....seat in showroom condition. battery gone, tried Turing engine manually. No go. Oil appears clean....but frozen.
Binged on YT videos all day yesterday from fuel, carbs, electric systems, fuses and switches, deck removal to spindle and pulley replacement. Felt very confident I could get this running...called seller. Offered him $125 bucks cash...he accepted. Do I need it? Nope...my yard so small use my push mower. Am retired due to heart attack and live in a "retirement" area of my town..last summer, mowed a couple of lawns around me due to illnesses or vacations......hmmmmmmmm...was just thinking of flipping this mower....yesterday afternoon, had a call out of the blue from a property MGMT company that owns the Collage Apt complex and 4 empty lots 1 block to my south. Wanted to know if I was interested in mowing for them...must let them know by March 1st.
Then, came across your vid last night.....think I have enough ammo to make this purrrrr like a kitten.
Pick up mower on Sat. Will be near 60. Is 9:20 AM Fri, 2-14.....19 degrees.
@@keithintheplains6592 awesome. Let me know how things go! Check out my other videos on prepping lawn mower engine and tractor for use to help check off the list of maintenance items.
Great video, thank you so much! This was the best video on this topic TH-cam has, you did a fantastic job! One very small suggestion, which you probably did but may not have mentioned, lube the pushrods and rocker arm fulcrums and contact points with either oil or assembly lube so they don’t go in metal on metal. Just throwing it out there if someone who doesn’t know happens to read the comments.
Thank you so much! Yes, there are plenty of things about this video I can see doing better. Then again, it was my first ever DIY video 😀. Great tip about lubing the contact surfaces. I do not recall if I did and didn't film it or if I just plain forgot.
Just want to say thanks for the vid. You saved me a lot of money! Mower runs like new.
Great to hear that. That is why I make my videos.
I also had the valve guide/bent push rod problem a couple seasons ago. It was caused by the fins on heads being clogged up and not cooling. I pushed them back in place and peened them with a sharp punch in 4-5 locations and so far so good. I do clean out the fins on the heads a few times a year now. I had a hard starting problem before that and it was because the valve lash was loose and there wasn't enough vacuum to run the fuel pump. My mower is a 1998 model and I mow a acre with it. It's not had a easy life. I have always added Lucas to the oil and I think that is the only reason that it's still alive. Thanks for sharing this info.
Thanks for watching and sharing the tips and tricks that worked for you.
I just had to fix this same motor with this same problem for a neighbor. These engines have terrible quality control on the valve guides. His push rod fell into the crank, just like you said could happen, and somehow miraculously didn't cause any damage. These are some of the loosest valve guides I've ever seen. Rather than buying new heads for $150 a piece, I pressed the valve guide back to it's original position, and then from the outside of the head I drilled a hole through the aluminum and into the guide slightly. Then I removed the guide, and turned a channel into it on my lathe. Tapped the hole for a set screw, and then pressed the guide back into place. Using the set screw to retain the guide withing the channel. No more movement up or down. Runs great. Of course everything got high temp thread locker also. I had one guide that was so bad, that when I froze the guide to re-install it, I was able to push it back into place with my finger. Now that's just horribly out of spec. Luckily the set screws seem to be doing their job and the engine is still running like a champ for now.
Wow! Very innovative way to give it a permanent fix. Very cool! Yes, I agree on your quality comment. When I was researching the problem before producing my video, I found that there are all kinds of issues with these engines, including twisting of the crank case in higher horsepower engines. It is sad because older generation engines were workhorses that were very hard to kill. My 1962 Snowbird ran like a champ with just a little TLC after rescuing it from sitting for 25 years in a shed.
@@par64guy It is sad, especially coming from an American company that's been making motors for years. Funny thing... In between my last comment and this one, my neighbor asked me to look at another one of his riders because the deck wasn't moving up and down. So I walked over there and rode it to my garage and noticed right away that it sounded like it was running on one cylinder. (27hp briggs intek) So I pulled the valve cover and...... of course the intake push rod had fallen out of place. The culprit??? The rocker arm stud came loose... lol Jeeze, he needs to stop buying engines put together on friday. Luckily, nothing was damaged and I was able to torque everything down and reset the valve clearance and it's running great.
Great job Grant. I understand exactly what you did. So far I haven't had a guide move but I was thinking the guide should have been made with a shoulder machined in it so it couldn't move up. Could the guide be made out of steel with a shoulder? Could you turn a grove for a circlip then press it back in with Red Locktite? The head is junk so there's not much to lose by doing what you did or what i'm thinking of. Some are trying to prick punch to hold the guide in place but I think your way or my ideas would work better. It sounds like keeping trash from causing high temps keeps the guids in place. Thanks for your input here.
@@jefffrayer8238, one of the reasons I went with the channel in the guide and a set screw, was because I've heard that some people have had their guides actually drop down instead of up like my head was. So I figured this would hold it in one place and not allow up or down movement. 5 tanks though it and it's still holding up just fine. I honestly wasn't expecting much in terms of longevity with this fix, but it's proving to be a good solution.
Thanks for your help....excellent information !!! During my tear down, I discovered a nest with 3 overbaked mice in it. Both valve guides had worked their way out and both pushrods were bent. $230 bucks later, and I'm mowing grass again.
hmmm, baked mice...yummy! NOT!
I am glad the video helped guide you (no pun intended) through the repair process. Just think, that probably would have been a $500 bill minimum if you had to bring it in to have it serviced.
Do you have to remove engine in order to replace head gasket on one of cylinder heads. Thank you kindly for your replay.
I did not have to on my twin or my father in law's single cylinder Intek.
@@par64guy thank you. I didn't think so, but somebody on you tube said that they had to remove complete motor due to some bolts access of intake manifould.
I need to remove one cyl. Head because when engine runs approx. every 4-5 seconds will have puff of blue smoke under one cyl head but exhaust smoke is good and clear. So I will see what I can find once I remove that cylinder head. Again, thank you very much for your kind respond!
thanks for the video. Same thing happened to me. that maintenance is pretty important. expensive lesson to learn.
Most definitely! I just prepped the tractor for mowing season 20. I pulled the blower cover and cleaned the head fins. So far so good!
Great video! thanks for the "help" on changing a head on my mower. Good job.
You are most certainly welcome!
those are good motors there a little noisy in the vale compartment but there good motors 😎
Very good video, excellent fix. I'll use this as a tutorial ,I have it saved. Just happened to mine same scenario only I had a mice nest. I used the air hose and blew it out regularly but the mice made a condominium inside the cover. It was about 3 in tall and 10 inches long.😂 Today's cost for this job is around $400 though if you can find the parts. It appears as though Briggs & Stratton went chapter 11
Thank you!
Mike, I learned a lot by watching your video. I had the exhaust valve bent twice in less than a year on the fuel pump side. Replaced it once, but never checked the valve guide. Can you guess what I found. Now with your knowledge and a little wrench love I'm sure this issue will be behind me. Thank you....Pete
So glad my video was able to help you solve your problem. Thank you for watching!
Great video Michael. I am working on a 26 HP engine with the same clicking and knocking sound. Push rods look okay, but maybe the valve guides are coming out. Will check it out now that Ive seen your video. Good job!
Thank you! I suspect either the valve clearance needs adjustment or the guide is out of position. Let me know what you find!
Thanks for your help I've been trying to find a video like this thanks again
You are very welcome. Let me know if there are other projects or repairs you want to seen done.
In my opinion you've done a great job of explaining what the issue is and how to not only fix the issue but also prevent this issue down the road. I haven't looked to see if there is a parts list but I'm hoping that there is. Updated: I did find your parts list useful. I am looking for the correct gaskets and noticed you did get new rockers. Could you add them to the parts list please. Ty again and now all I need to do is wait on my money tree to grow. Lol
Thank you so much for the compliments. Regarding the individual part numbers, I did not break out every part number because the cylinder head kits I ordered came complete with valves, springs, gaskets, and rockers.
Great video. I have same problem. Never did my maintenance on cleaning the fins on the heads. Also ended up with bent push rods. Have a new head on order and pushrods. Thanks for your video.
Thank you. Sorry to hear you had to buy a new head too. It is an expensive lesson to learn with these engines, especially with all the shrouds that make cleaning more challenging and time consuming.
You are so calm...great video
Thank you! I edited out all the foul language that accompanied the teardown and diagnosis. :)
Could you give me the torque lbs for the repairs you preformed. I don't have the manual and can't seem to find the info anywhere. Thanks in advance.
Which torque settings do you need?
Ok, so I have a problem. I can't find any parts for my 2005 118 John deer. I need to replace the cylinder head. Any help would be appreciated
@williamburton8163 best bet is to verify the engine model number, look up the parts list, and Google the part numbers.
@@par64guy having a rough time making out the numbers. It's almost 20 years old
does anybody happen to know what push rods do i need for a vanguard 35hp?
The set screw and adj. screw seems to work just the opposite on other engines. I have had to loosen the set screw and turn the nut to loosen or tighten the valve.
Standardized procedures seem to not exist with some of these engine manufacturers unlike the good old days!
My push rods gone! Down in engine. Motor still starts no crank noise. Worth going forward or buy new motor? 2004 cub cadet
The rod most likely fell into the crank case. Running the engine risks catastrophic damage. If the steel exhaust rod fell in, then you could try to fish it out using a magnet on a string. Unfortunately, most likely, you may need to remove the engine and open the crank case to retrieve the rod. If no damage has been done, then you may be able to save the engine.
Great video , thanks
Thank you for watching it! I hope it was informative for you.
can you please provide the torque spec's for the head bolts & the rocker arm bolts? thanks
I did not have the exact manual for my series engine, but I did have a manual for other OHV models. Looking at several similarly sized engines, their head torque was 220 in-lbs and rocker arm stud was 100 in-lbs. I used those values.
where did you get your parts ? how far up should the guides be or are they level with the casting ?
I ordered mine from Amazon because with Prime I got them faster than the local shop said if they ordered them. But, if possible, try to support your local businesses. The guides on mine do protrude from the casting, but I do not recall what the specification is. If I recall correctly, they are flush with the casting on the valve side and protrude maybe 0.125"ish on the rocker side.
Great video.. My question is why do both push rods bend when only the exhaust guide slides out? I can see that one bind, but the intake works fine. Thanks again.
Good question. I can only guess that if only one guide is out of position, causing that one's rod to bend and pop out of position, maybe the bent and displaced rod hits the other leading to damage. perhaps other viewers may know more than I on this theory.
My theory is that if the head was hot enough for the exhaust guide to slip out, then the head probably expanded enough to cause binding on the intake side also.
@@darrellpatton4008 Good theory - maybe the guide did not have to slide out to cause a problem. If the dimensions changed enough, it could cause the valve itself to bind, thus causing excessive force to be applied to the pushrod. Very interesting.
How about excess pressure in the combustion chamber because the exhaust valve didn't open, causing extra force on the push rod trying to open the intake valve? Just a theory. I know those rods are kind of weak. Anybody else have a theory? interesting topic
Rocker arm hits the guide. Pushrod is the weak link in that valvetrain. It bends when the rocker arm is mechanically stopped by the protruding valve guide.
Got a ?I changed my camshaft and cleaned the vaule seats and I set the vaules do you think this could be my problem I cant figure it out ?????
Definitely check the rods for straightness and the valve guides for proper placement.
@@par64guy Thanks alot now I have to figure out how to set that or do you think I should just buy a new head sorry for so many ?it gets pretty frustrating at times cause ive tyres everything
@@nancymounts7095 if the valve guides are out of place, you can push them back using various techniques on other people's videos (one is a hammer or arbor press and ratchet socket). Then you can lock them in place by peening them. I opted to buy new heads because I did not have confidence in my ability to do the peening operating.
Did you need to lubricate the new rods?
I added a bit of engine oil to the ends of the rods where they touch the lifters and rocker arms. I am not sure if it is required, but I figured better safe than sorry given the amount of work I was putting into the effort.
Good video , my Engine ran backwards the other day , found a bent intake pushrod and the exhaust pushrod is missing, must have gone down the oil drain hole, ugh, yeah tell me why the engineer can't design a 90° shelf in that drain backs of the pushrod can't fall all the way into the sump
Ugh, sorry to hear that! There are a few videos where people are able to fish it out of the oil fil tube with a magnet. If it is bent enough, then you will have to disassemble the engine to retrieve it. Again, check some if the other video channels on how to do that.
@@par64guy yes, tried with magnet thru the one drain hole in the heads no go, tried thru oil fill tube its not traveled that far and something seems to be blocking there, can see the pushrod at the oil drain exit, magnet grabs it but cant get it to turn , may try removing the heads, or may buy the 27 HP engine and gain 5 HP !
If you can see it, then you might be able to grab it with a tweezer or needle nose plier. Just don't let it fall in!
I've got the same issue. Going to drain oil and try the magnet trick.
also, could this be from clogged crank breather?
Not sure. I don't know enough about the breather system to know the symptoms when it is clogged.
I have had bent push rods on my V-twin 25hp a couple of times . I had 2 different people work on mine . They both are worthless . They replaced the push rods but nothing more . It still doesn't run quite right . And it burns about 1 quart of oil after 4 hrs of run time . Some times after I idle it down and shut it off it back fires . Do you think I have the same problem ?
The symptoms for my engine were increasingly louder tapping sounds which was the rocker arms hitting the valve guides which were sliding out of position. I suppose the backfiring could be caused by an incompletely closed valve, bad fuel, or improper fuel/air mixture. Remove the valve covers and inspect the valve guides to see if they are the cause of your bent rods. I am willing to bet you will find one or more out of position. The fix there would be to either replace the cylinder heads or repair them by pressing the valve guides back into position and then peening them in place with a nailset and hammer (other people have published videos on how to do this).
I do also recall when doing my research that some model year larger HP Intek engines had a design flaw where the entire crank case could twist under heavy loads, leading to misalignment of critical components and poor operation.
@@par64guy Can't thank you enough for your reply . What would you do if my crank case twisted and how would I know ? My DLT is about 12 yrs old . Should I replace the engine or buy another mower ?
@@rudy52350 If the pushrods are bent, I would recommend checking to see if the valve guides are out of position. If so, you can repair the engine. I recommend researching the twisting crank case issue to see if your model engine is susceptible to the problem. I think the twisting was more of a temporary flexing issue and not a permanent "bent out of shape" issue.
@@par64guy Thank you for your time and help . I'm going to check out that twisting crank case problem . Thanks for your help .
You need to check the camshaft. A not uncommon cause of these bent or broken push rods is due to lobes on the camshaft wearing down. I don't know the reason for the excessive camshaft wear. Common symptoms are weak engine power and backfiring. On mine it was the the cam lobe closest to the camshaft sprocket. Easy replacement but you have to remove the engine and approach it from the the crankcase side.
Awesome video, very informative. I found, on my engine, 24 hp intek v-twin, the one steel exhaust push rod dropped and was sitting below the rocker arm, luckily didn’t disappear in the engine. Is there a video, anywhere, as to just installing new push rods, alone. And any process of doing so? This would be my first time doing this, and I just want to make sure I don’t affect timing issues, and the like.
Thanks for watching my video. If the rod was bent, then I suspect the exhaust guide has slid out a bit and is preventing the rocker arm from fully depressing, thus causing the rod to bend enough to have popped out of position. As far as just replacing the rods, you can skip to the installation of the rods and valve clearance adjustment section of the video.
Question.. Are the intake and exhaust valve guides the same size..
If memory serves, yes. You should be able to confirm by looking up the part numbers listed in the video. A few people also commented about using steel in both positions which leads me to believe they are indeed the same length.
They use T30 torx and 13mm wrench
I just pulled the rocker cover and the exhaust valve push rod wasnt there. Is there a easy way to tell if it is in the crankcase without tearing the whole engine down? Also is a online service manual available for Model 44557? any help is welcome. thanks
Push rods cannot fall out of the engine, so unfortunately, that means if it is not under the rocker cover, then it must have fallen into the crankcase. In some previous comments, I linked to some other videos where people remove the dipstick and attempt to fish the push rod out of the crankcase. If you cannot do it, then opening the crank case may be your only option (also referenced in a previous comment). Good luck! I am not sure if there is an online manual. Hopefully you will find it with some Googling.
@@par64guy Thanks Michael I did find it in the crankcase and luckly nothing else was damaged. I didnt even try to fish it out. Just pulled the engine. Thanks again for getting back to me so quickly and good luck with your channel.
I have a Briggs and Stratton 16hp vanguard horizontal shaft and i think it did this. Sounds like its running on 1 cylinder. W Would it pretty much be the same process?
I believe the Vanguards are similar, so the process should be similar. To address your earlier question, the rods bent because the valve guides slid out of position. I showed that as best I could in the earlier part of the video. When the rocker arm tries to actuate the valve, it hits the valve guide. The push rod ends up being the sacrificial lamb. Root causes are somewhat of a poor design combined with the mistake on my part of not keeping the cooling fins sufficiently clean. My solution was to replace the heads as I did not have confidence in my ability to reset the valve guides and peen them into place.
Hi Michale, i have a briggs 23hp commercial v twin on my new Ferris zero turn and im starting to hear a knocking noise coming from the crank area (the back of engine) is this normal? i hear sometimes the hydraulic lifters can go bad if it has sat around for a while. It has only done 9 easy hours. Cheers.
Knocking noises are never good. I trust your oil level is good and filter is not clogged? When my push rods bent, the noise was mostly near the heads. I wonder if something is going bad with the crankshaft, cam shaft (possibly lifters) or oil pump. Perhaps someone with more experience than I could give you a more definitive answer. I suggest some additional searches to see if the is a better way to diagnose before the engine self destructs.
@@par64guy thanks for the reply, yeah the oil level and all that is all good, the motor has only done 9 hours. The noise probably gets a little Louder as the engine heats up. I feel like it could be lifters but either way this is very annoying that this is happening already as I'm sure a large portion of the motor would have to be pulled apart for the warranty repair and that's always a worry as you know whoever does the repair is not going to do anywhere near as good of a job assembling it as briggs have done.
Where did you buy these parts?
I bought them off Amazon, but if you have a local store that you can support, then I recommend going there. Use Amazon's prices as a comparison to avoid price gouging.
Very good video!
Daniel Arnold thank you! One thing I noticed is my videos tend to be on the long side, but I hope the content is worth the time to watch it.
Hi nice video where do you get parts from?
I ended up ordering from Amazon, but you may have a local power equipment repair shop that could get them.
@@par64guy thanks for a fast reply
Id like to point out about the Exh vs Intake Rod position. In this video it is clear that this mechanic put the Al rod in the top and the Steel rod in the bottom. I believe it is the same on my Briggs OHV about a 2015....but many youtube vids comments claim the intake is the bottom. Maybe the orientation was changed in what recent year? Anyone?
Engines might be oriented different, so follow the guide of "aluminum rod for intake valve and steel rod for exhaust".
Even that isn't a sure thing Michael...at least not on all Briggs OHV engines. I have a 12.5 HP Briggs Vanguard twin from around 1994-95 and just took the rocker cover off today to find a bent exhaust valve push rod and a stuck valve. I was experiencing fuel blowing back into the air cleaner and a totally fouled plug on one cylinder. I freed up the valve in its guide with PB Blaster and then looked at the manual/parts list for my engine. It specifically lists the steel push rod for the intake and the aluminum for the exhaust. From the reviews I've read about the "new" part numbers that superseded the original parts, the updated exhaust valve rod is "beefier", but still aluminum. So at some point anyway...between the Vanguard of 1995 and your newer Intek, they flipped the steel and aluminum rod orientation. I'm really hoping the new rod cures my problem, as everything else looks to be in order. Thanks for posting a nice, clear informative video though. Very helpful!
Thank you for the additional info and compliment. That is very interesting that the rods were swapped at some point. I wonder if someone in Engineering determined there was a good reason such as a benefit due to differing amounts of thermal expansion between the steel and aluminum that made a difference and swapped them sometime after your model year was made.
That's exactly what I was thinking Michael. I'm also thinking that the aluminum might "give" a bit more if something does go wrong, thus lessening the chances of further damage. Anyway, replacing my bent rod and freeing up the sticking valve totally solved my problem! Once I set the valve clearances last night and put everything back together, I started it up and it now runs better than it did when I bought it used last fall! No more fuel spraying into the air filter and about twice (go figure!) the power that it had when running on only one cylinder! Thanks again for your help Michael!
Good job......i prefer .004 on valve adjustment.
If I remember the manual, 0.004 to 0.006 was listed, so I picked 0.005. I remember having it too far off causing the the compression relief mechanism to not work and the starter having trouble turning the engine over.
@@par64guy yes...ive adjusted my valves 2 times since I've had my mower.....this last time I actually set the intakes at .004 and the exhaust at a loose .004...more like a snug .005...and I swear it runs better than ever and starts better....before I went with.005 medium smugness on both valves.....it did fine but seems to do better with the last setting....it seems to start faster.oh well....lol.....great vid ...keep them comin...great job.
I just want to point out while your exhaust valve guide did slide up, even when it came from the factory it did not look like the intake guide did. The intake and exhaust use two different styles of valve guides. This trips a lot of people up and makes them sometimes believe their exhaust valve guide has slid out when it actually hasn't. Again, obliviously yours really did come out.
Thanks for clarifying that! Yes, in my case, the bent push rod was a giveaway that the guide had slid out, but for others, make sure you check out your own engine.
There's no real reason to think about it like that, because people aren't looking at the position of their valve guides at all unless they have reason to be in there doing more than adjusting lash, like if their pushrod bent. I doubt that it trips up anyone.
Would have been good to see you place the push rods back in.
I know. Unfortunately with this video being my first one, I had not figured out how to hold the camera while I did the work. Later videos are better as I had started using props to hold the camera while I worked. Maybe next time I have the engine open, I can record a clip to show everyone.
Do you recall the head bolt torque specs? I think i found 190 in lbs, but jeez its confusing looking that stuff up
I used the numbers from the single-cylinder Intek manual which I had gotten to repair my father-in-law's 17HP Intek-powered tractor. Checking through all engine series in that manual, just about every one specified a cylinder head bolt torque of 220 in-lbs which is what I used for my engine. I have had the tractor for 13 years, so I suppose I should pick up the manual for my engine at some point :)
@Michael Lorello got a John Deere L120 Automatic Same thing Running on 1 cyl.. do i need to Drain the Oil Before i take the OHV plate off or can i remove it with the oil still inside the engine?
noah plotkin you can remove the OHV covers and even the cylinder heads without draining the oil. I have even run my engine with the OHV covers off. Oil splashes a bit, but it was to get a good view of everything working.
@@par64guy found the Exhaust Push Rod in the Crank Case... is it safe to leave the Rod in the Case...? Don't Have Money or Time Disassemble Crankcase..
noah plotkin definitely do not leave the push rod in there. With so many moving parts inside the crank case, the engine will most likely be damaged beyond repair if it tangles with anything.
@@par64guy Well i can't Fish the thing Out.. and my dad doesn't Want to Spend the Money on Taking the Whole Thing apart
Since the exhaust rod is steel, you can try using a magnet. I have seen other videos where people remove the oil dipstick riser and use a magnetic flexible grabber to pull the rod out. If it got bent by the internal moving parts, then that method may not work. Unfortunately, leaving it in there will most likely cause the engine to completely self destruct if it gets entangled with the crankshaft, camshaft, or governor components. It will be a case of pay some now or pay a lot later. In what city are you located? Maybe some other viewers are near you and might offer to help with the project.
I also had the valve guides move out of place on my B&S Vanguard Vtwin. I stuck them in a press and drove them back in. I set valve lash, re-assembled, and the loud valve noise went away. Next time they ought to be welded because I have a feeling it will happen again.
I replaced the original B&S Vtwin due to a cracked block (video on my channel) and that engine also had valve guides out of place. I have a video I can share of the valve guides being pressed in as well. Endless cylinder problems...
Your missing valve stem caps. I thought all Briggs OHV engines have caps on valve stems ?
Why didnt you show how to install the rods??
This was my first video, and I did not have a tripod to hold the camera. As a result, a lot of the work requiring both hands was not recorded. I have since learned and bought a tripod!
I drill tap and install long set screws with 271 lock tight
Been holding 7 years
Where did you drill and tap?
When the aluminum rod bends, replace with a steal one , it won;t hurt any thing.
Good plan NOT!!!! IT BENT BECAUSE YOU OVERHEATED IT AND THE VALVE GUIDE SLIPPED OUT. Fix the problem.
Jerome Cook has no clue; he made the same comment on another video similar to this one. He is dangerous, do not heed his advice.
Well there is some truth to swapping the aluminum to steel pushrod. I wouldnt replace the steel with aluminum due to heat. Aluminum is intake, steel is exhaust. Now if u ever have the same problem an u hav used steel u can cause more damage.
I wouldn't do it but i might if i was in a pinch..
It won’t hurt until something fails lol. It’s designed as a weak point.
Why did the rod bend in the first place? Wont it just happen again?
It appears to be a result of the combination of less than excellent design and poor maintenance on my part. I did not ensure the cooling fins were kept clean. The heads heated up more than they wanted to, resulting in the valve guides sliding out of position. The rocker arms hit the guides, causing the push rods to become bent. An expensive lesson learned on my part!
Im not sure I agree with that 100%. I lean more towards an inferior design, What I would ask from some experienced Briggs mechanics is: Has there been manufacturing changes regarding the 'valve guide' over recent years. My Briggs guides slid out and bent rods at 100 hrs (Ztrak mower). A shop owner told me that is way too early (100 hrs) to have problems with valve adjustment and rods. Yes, it is, therefore I am going to into research mode once again and try to get to the bottom of who makes a more dependable engine with stamina, not the cheaper version mediocre one? Kubota, Briggs, Honda, and which mower are they on? Too bad Deere, I really thought this ZTrak bagging power Flow system was going to be the cake. But it isn't.
I have the pleasure of trying to figure this out while my engine has LESS than 20 hours. Starting to think certainly engine design plays a significant role in this. Not to disagree with your excellent work Michael Lorello. I do live in the heart of Texas, so heat can be intense.
I tend to agree. As a product development engineer (electrical) in my day job, I tend to get very analytical and curious about root cause. Some of my research into the initial symptoms identified a flaw in the larger HP Briggs engines where the crank case would actually twist slightly under high torque conditions. This twisting could throw off critical alignments and lead to bad things happening. My guess is someone in a higher pay grade told the mechanical engineers to cut cost by reducing material, or rush to meet the almighty launch schedule, maybe resulting in a skipping of some design due diligence corners like tolerance stack-up analysis or above and beyond thermal and torque cycle testing which could have revealed latent and fatigue failures. Speculation on my part, but not out of the realm of possibility.
...tend to agree with Lud Wig's comment about inferior design, that is!
i have the same engine on my JD D120. I have oil blowing out of my fuel pump. is this due to bent valve?
Oil blowing out your fuel pump could be a blown head gasket. My father-in-law has a 17 HP single cylinder Intek engine which suffered those same symptoms. The engine, in my opinion, has a design defect where there is too much space between the head bolts, preventing sufficient pressure between the head and block. The hot combustion gasses eventually wear through the gasket in that section. This happened after around 250 hours of operation, and a new gasket fixed the problem, hopefully for another 250 hours. In my case (21HP V-Twin), the bent push rods caused a knocking sound which was also accompanied by uneven engine operation because one cylinder was failing to fire reliably. I hope this helps you solve your engine issue.
This engine has 50 hrs on it. It's not the gasket, I've checked
Might be breather as you suggested.
Michael Lorello do you know where it's located
where is that located?
How much would it cost to have the heads peened?
Good question. I can ask a friend of mine who works for a repair shop to see what they would charge so you would have a ball-park. If you want to take a shot at doing it yourself, donyboy73 does a great job walking through the process. th-cam.com/video/ZQj6ZaFu490/w-d-xo.html
@@par64guy ok...thanks
That's just something you DIY with a chisel and hammer, so zero cost unless you have to buy a chisel and hammer. ;)
Hi
Why is bend the push rods????
Which is the reason??
Hello! I explain what I found for a reason in the video. It seems to be related to overheating of the engine and the valve guides.
Very well done. Maybe get proficient with a tripod for some shots in the future.
John Winchell thank you! Yes, I need to invest in a tripod. For my current video in process, I recruited one of the kids to help with some shots.
@@par64guy You did a great job and with a tripid you would do so much better and easier. I've bought several regular tripods used for next to nothing. Even got a used one that stands about 10 inches tall but will easily fit in my pocket. Great job and hope it keeps runnig great.
Definitely, Jeff. This was my first video. Since then, I did find a tripod at a tag sale for $5, and I bought a phone mount adapter and lavalier microphone from Amazon. I also started incorporating voiceover when my live narration was crap. Its moving along, slow and steady. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing. What state are you in? I’d like you to fix my mower. :-)
I'm in Connecticut.
Có ic máy đo không a
will too much oil blow head gaskets on briggs 24hp vtec
I am not sure, but I know too much oil is not good for any engine. I remember once when I was a teenager, I overfilled the lawnmower. It started billowing out white smoke from the exhaust until I drained it back to a normal level.
I welded my guides in place from the bottom. Never gonna have that problem again.
Great idea. Unfortunately, I do not own a welder nor do I have the skills to perform such an operation. However, your idea could steer others who watch this to a potentially much cheaper alternative to cylinder head replacement.
Welded and Sanded smooth? Any photos?
You welded steel valve guide to an aluminum head? Really! Please explain........I'll wait!
@Mr-er6fg the valve guides are steel. Placing a tack weld on the steel its self will prevent it from sliding up and prevent the valve from opening.
Remove the top cover and clean the crap out of the engine heat shielding
Heat is causing all of these problems
It’s not the engine fault it’s the owners
Lazy people need to pay the high prices
I did call myself out for not cleaning the cooling fins well enough. I will definitely own that mistake - all $300 worth of it! But, there are quite a few known issues with the Intek engines that make it easier to fail. It's been five years since the repair, and I make a point to use a leaf blower after each mowing to clear off the engine and mower deck. So far so good.
My mower has tossed a push rod after only 29 hours…. I am thinking of reseating the valve guides and buying new push rods
Only 29 hours? YIKES! Is there some other underlying cause such as insufficient oil level or excessive dirt built-up or issue with the airflow through the cylinder heads? It may also be worth looking up your particular model engine to see if there is a known issue with it? In any case, give the repair a try. The rods do not cost too much.
I got the same issue on 23hp
Sadly, it is not an uncommon problem.
Those intek vtwins don't have decompression system in them
They do have some sort of compression relief system. If the valve guides are not adjusted properly, the engine will not turn over or will severely struggle. I learned that the first time I adjusted the valves when I messed up and let one of the adjustment nuts twist a bit as I tightened the lock nut.
@@par64guy I don't think they do I've set my valves like 5 times and still hangs up on compression stroke sometimes
You forgot to mention that this is a major design flaw from the manufacturer! It's happened to me twice! Engines built in the 60's, 70's and 80's NEVER DID THIS!
You're right. I did read about this susceptibility being design related when researching the symptoms. Another flaw on larger HP engines was also twisting of the crankcase under load which caused similar failures.
No need to replace anything . press them back in with some locktite and peen the hell out of them and all is good . anytime you open these motors replace that stupid aluminum pushrod with a steel . have seen them break from wear just from dirty oil . I know keep oil clean . but what the hell
Yes, the quick fix would be that, but I doubted my ability to peen the valve guides.
@@par64guy fair enough but you shouldn't have doubted yourself
@@mikec4772 I kept the old heads to practice. One of these day, I will give it a go!
you keep saying valve guides but don't you mean valve seats ????
JIM ECKENRODE in this case, it was the valve guides that slid out of position, jamming the rocker arms and bending the pushrods. My research into the problem revealed this is a common problem with the Intek engines, aggravated by poor cleanliness of the cooling fins (my fault). The valve seats were still in good shape, so if i had decided to peen the guides in place, I most likely would not have had to lap the valves. Lesson learned here is make sure those fins are clean!
I have the same engine and I have cleaned the fins but there really wasn't much there but dust. I have watched many of the video's of the same problem you posted but I am still not clear on the valve guides. Next time I adjust the valves I will look a little closer. thanks for the response
Replacing the head is not a solution,that is a 300.00 dolars every two years plus labor it cost me twenty dolars and will never had a this problem again
I settled in on the replacement option after researching the problem and seeing that the most common long-term solution was replacement. Peening was an option, but I did not have enough faith in my ability to do that to create a long enough term solution to make it worth the effort to take everything apart. Mainly, I was worried about not doing it evenly and causing one or more valves to not sit perfectly centered in the opening, thus impacting the seal or long-term wear on the vale stem. Granted, my research may not have been exhaustive enough. Please share your $20 fix as it may save others a lot of grief. In the event they do need to replace the heads, at least there are several videos, mmine included, that show how to do it.
how did you fix the problem? was .005 correct for adjustment?
Hey DUDE. Great video. TY. I think I have the same issue. My rattle and missfire or surging is coming from the lower right exhaust. Plus the Rocker Cover has carbon/exhaust.
My guide on the top valve is out and the push rod is bent. Can I re insert the valve guide and straighten the push rod without new parts? If I have to replace, what is the cost?
You could try to push the valve guide back into the correct position with a socket. I would recommend peening it to reduce the chance of it sliding out again. Several videos show how its done. I recommend checking out Donyboy73. I found his videos when researching for this video. Were the fins dirty and reducing airflow, thus causing and overheating condition? Just asking to get root cause. I'm not sure you will get the push rod straight enough, but you could try. They are not that expensive, so it might not be worth your time to fight with it.
Here is the link to Amazon where i bought my rods. One Cylinder's worth was $15 www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DUK4V9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1