I feel that mana cheating can only be fine on those big champions that basically say "if you level me win the game". Aurelian Sol is a perfect example in my opinion. He makes big cards from a limited pool FREE! But, at that stage in the game it's not broken and there is still a chance to play against it.
The best "win the game" card to me is level 3 azir. There isn't even a discount, his deck is just so obscenely high value its an unstoppable force by nature.
@@justascarecrow6988 nab is cool and all but when they play that card it wont have the same effect since it wont draw from the emperors deck for more value. 3 mana 5/4 fearsome? cool. i have two more.
@@onlinepanic2036 Ascended's call, the 10 mana spell that summons Nasus and Renekton at max level (AND rallies) is always on the bottom of the Emperor's Deck, so if your opponent nabs it its quite likely you lose the game, (at least that's what I would assume).
@@kayaek2558 emporors deck has 2 rallies. ascendeds call, and the landmark. and they really dont need rallies to win. most games where azir levels up xerath is carpet bombing people and sandstorms are wiping value off the board left and right.
Totally agree with the main point. Having a deck with this much RNG and mana cheating be competitively viable is no bueno. For exactly the reason you pointed out via Rubin Zoo's tweet. It removes skill based gameplay and replaces it with: praydge they don't have some bullchip. This is the kind of deck that belongs at like a 30-40% winrate. It can still be allowed to do bonkers things, just not with consistency to make it viable in competitive play.
Idk who needs to hear this but equipments that can summon units aren't spells. They shouldn't fucking cost spell mana or make landmarks cost spell mana.
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! I strongly disliked the Seraphine archetype but I really didn't want this video to sound negative, but more of a "hey this is what happened during this meta and here's what we had to deal with". This is a celebration of Runeterra and the passionate community we have. Speaking of the awesome community, here are some of the cameos, people that helped me with the script, or generally people that inspired me with their insight: TheLegendXVII: www.youtube.com/@TheLegendXXVII AlanzqTFT: www.twitch.tv/alanzqtft MajinBae: www.youtube.com/@MajiinBae PuffballPanda: www.youtube.com/@PuffballPanda Yangzera: twitter.com/Yangzera LadyPickl: twitter.com/LadyPickl Drisoth: twitter.com/Drisoth Footballhead: twitter.com/Football_Head2 YelloMagi THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH ME AND THE VIDEO, I JUST LOVE THEIR CONTENT AND WANTED TO INCLUDE THEM
@@Cheasle2 People had several reasons to hate her and most of them are justified. The one i like the most is that Riot keeps nerfing Sona and could easily used Seraphine's kit do be Sona's rework making it easier to balance.
@@euqinemor Seraphine is very far from being a problematic champ compared to other recent ones when it comes to this anyway. Also while they are quite similar, Sona is more of an Enchanter, Seraphine is more of a control mage. The issue of Sona not receiving buffs is more noticed because they look similar, but go check how many 6300 shards champs are costantly picked vs older ones. Some stood the test of time (Yi for example), but how often do you see Soraka? Garen? Ashe as an actual ADC? They aren't necessarly bad, just like Sona, but their pick rates are tanked by having similar but superior choices. I really like Soraka modern kit, but I still play Nami over her because... Why wouldn't I? Nami is strong no matter what. Soraka heals way too little compared to the average DPS these days
Honestly I think bar, songspinner and old ionian telsones were more degenerate than Seraphine, but yes, she is problematic. Spell champion for spell region is like putting a rabbit into australia - complete disaster. Also it's quite fun that after the nerf she became even more degenerate with Bandlephine and Seryzephine decks.
@@deshelo4343 it would be a dead card than. Imagine spending 10 mana for 3 not-so-good spells? Moreover, there were always have been spell champs in spell regions as it should be - Ezreal, Karma, Lee Sin?
@@sailorjojo7771 I don't really think spell champs being part of spell regions are the big problem. The problem is the randomness of those *new* 2 cost spells. Ok, maybe slow spell AND set their costs to 1 is a bit overkill, but the fact that they are almost totally random freaks me out, you just can't play around them (specially if you don't have the mana to do so). Besides, 2 cost spells are usually pretty decent and versatile, unlike higher cost spells which are usually good in a very specific context. In the end, you chose to play around the randomness, and therefore you must accept the risks.
@@sailorjojo7771 Yeah, I've said it wrong. I mean, Karma as double cast champion is fine because she is basically a 10 mana champion and she's from Ionia, where are no spells worth being doubled. Like, you'll get even more protection, but it won't help you to actually win the game, so you'll have to pair her with something good. Seraphine on the other hand is in the region, which benefits highly from spells (2 mana fast decimate), so she with ezreal can choose any secondary region, that's why ezrephine-noxus was so cringe.
Seraphine and her support cards should at least be region locked so there rng isn't complete bs. Also seraphine should be a 1/2 since she can lvl in deck, cause as of now she's too hard to remove for a cheap unit that can come down and allow you to vomit out vaule.
As a League player I think its kinda funny how I thought that this was about the League Seraphine incident when she was released. Another thing that is funny is Ezreal constantly coming back into meta because of random cards, just like how he comes into meta in LoL randomly whenever new items are introduced.
Seraphine, Fanclub President and Songspinner, and maybe some others (essentially the piltover music package), should reveal the cards they create or draw. It would be pretty favourful for the "music cards" to show off to the opponent their creations. Back Alley bar should have "new and not reduced cards cost 1 less". That way you can have fun with the "new card" archetype, but can't stack discounts with viktor, drum solo, fanclub, etc. I really think discounts + random cards is the problem. If you want to nerf discounts, fine, but I believe that in order to not postpone the problem for a new card to break the game, just freaking reveal the created cards. That solves the "impossible to play around" problem for good, even if new cards are introduced to the pool, or that stack discounts.
I actually like the idea of Seraphine, I hate how it is achieved : Mana reduction to spam spells with an Ezreal abusing it. I think if bar and Ezreal would be removed she would be an ok champ
Before seraphine got added to the game there weren't any problematic bar decks and ezreal wasn't really meta. Seraphine and her support cards are what's enabling those 2.
@@dankmemes8254 Ok, I'm talking about now. There wasn't an OP deck using ezreal at the time of her release, last time was kennen but that was a while ago.
@@travisprescott9708 while that is indeed true, the fact that Ezreal has consistently been a problem champ and attempts to break every new spell-based champion with the same boring combo has ruined what little goodwill he has by not being primary issue. IMO, him rotating is potentially one of the best ways to open up game design in the future…
Same. The only reason i'm not angry about it, is because i am now having a good time playing marvel snap. So it kinda happened at the same time so it feels like more of an organic break
the worst metas in runeterra imo were -azirelia -kaisa post launch -seraphine post launch people argue that vayne post launch and Aatrox rn are also bad metas but they have nothing on how cheated we felt from these 3 combos. Aatrox respects your mana and gives you time to react, that is something i cannot say for the others, especially seraphine and kaisa, that would essencially burst fuck you. Finally they took some good hits, it is still frustrating when they get lucky but at least we have more counterplay now.
The number one reason I quit LoR. I got tired of seeing thesamw Seraphine decks over and over. At least in the broken decks from the past, you can predict what your opponent can have in their hand and plan for their counters. Against Seraphine decks, you have no idea what card fanclub president just created.
i vehemently hate seraphine due to the numerous controversies she stirred up with her launch in league, so frankly i'm not okay with her existence anywhere, everything you mentioned in this video was just more fuel for the fire
YES! YES! THIS VIDEO IS PERFECTION! Mana cheating is one of the most annoying things you can have in a card game. As a player of magic the gathering i can say that when a card has zero cost or you can play another card for free it is a broken card. If your oponnent is out of mana, HE SHOULDN´T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!
Ya, I stopped playing when Seraphine came out, started playing again when she got nerfed. Been playing since beta and that was single-handedly the worst experience for me.
Meanwhile Hearthstone players watching their opponent spend 3 mana to play 28 cards that clear their board, draw half of the deck, summon huge minions with stealth and deal 15 damage to their face: "Yeah, those Runeterra problems are huge"
I stopped playing Runeterra because of the Seraphine meta, straight afther the Kai'Sa meta. RNG isn't so much the issue standalone, it was the fact that you cannot safely predict what the opponent might or might not have, because they could still play random cards from all over the game, empty their hand, for 0 mana... I wanna suggest a good solution. Make certain discounts (0 mana cards are fine as long as the yare balanced being around 0 mana) only grant up to a maxiumum of 1 mana, maining if you draw a 2 cost card with Drum solo's flow, it would go down to 1 mana instead of 0. Why i suggest this? Im taking a example from another card game i fell in love with lately, Marvel SNAP. Whilst it is controversial because it completly reïnvents the card battler genre (Or how TF you wanna call it) But has some verry carefull and well tought out mechanics. Almost all discounts (Except for a single location that is not deck-dependant, so that is just pure RNg if you will see it or not) have a MAXIUM of reducing cards to 1 cost, meaning you cannot physically cheat out cards for free if you maindeck said cost reductions. BTW Snnuy, we should talk about marvel SNAP sometimes, i think i have quite a bit of ideas that are great examples of doing cards right AND wrong. Take this saying i have "he whom doesn't learn from their mistakes, doesn't progress. He whom learns from their mistakes, progresses. But he whom, lerns from his mistakes, but also others mistakes, evolves."
You can just say "RNG", Seraphine was just the poor champion to get to represent it. She deserved way better, it drive me insane how flow was MADE for her and how she could work along with it but they decided to make her a fucking random generator... It is like how Ahri paid for elusives crime + kennen being the only creature recall card properly giving some kind of tempo/combo capacity.
I think this mentality from the devs of making something that might be really fun to play but is always frustrating to play against started back in rising tides with the nab mechanic. Although it hasn't really been meta relevant, I've never played against a nab deck and thought "that was a fun game". In my opinion, losing to your own win condition (that has been discounted by merchant) is a worse feeling than getting blown out by reggie.
As a competitive player, I agree with what you said. Seraphine almost made me quit the game. When you play against her or other powerful rng cards (peak, timelines), it feels like you decisions over the game just don't matter anymore, what matters is how good your opponent can roll.
I don't want to be sound selfish and self-centered, but I noticed that when a champion that I hate in league is added in runeterra, it olso creates the most busted and toxic metas. Ex: I hate irelia, azir/irelia meta, always thought Kai'Sa was an horrible addition to the void (one of my favorite regions), the Kai'Sa compo meta, and now Seraphine who was universally hated from day 0, together with her package, got us the rng meta. Sorry that I sound self-centered, I just couldn't ignore the cruel irony.
Went from a huge advocate of the game in 2020 to completely dropping it early 2022. No specific event led me to give it up, but just a culmination of far too many randomly generated cards (including cards that are randomly chosen from a select pool, like Celestials etc) and resource overabundance. Not interested in playing a card game where everyone is so full of gas all the time. I need attrition. Great video summing up the history of RNG in this game. Glad I got out before Serapine :)
Funny story The game that made me stop using the deck i won because conchologist created a timelines and bar created a void abomination. So because bar made the abomination cost 1 less i was able to transform it into a shipwreck hoard, wich was deep. So in the deck with no big creatures as threats i won because i dropped a fuckin 10/8 with elusive and all the other keywords my viktor had.
Out of all of the regions, pnz was by far the one I hated the most, probably the only one I could say I hated to begin with. Once Seraphine was released, it was just of a nail in the coffin for me 'cus they were just proving to me how awful pnz was to play against by adding more of what I hated to begin with.
I always said when I used to play champions like Ezreal or Fiora will be either always a problem or to useless to be played properly Ezreal is in what his 5th or 6th nerf and still always find a way to apear (atleast when I used to play) 1 or 2 times for year in a toxic meta. And in the other hand you have champions like fiora that need to be useless because if she is in the meta and winning usually means something its wrong
I think the only problem with RNG is the mana discount. It doesn't matter if you get bad luck with draw or card generation if it's free and you can just try it again. You shouldn't be able to play 20 cards on one turn in a game with max 13 mana.
I agree except for the part about having faith in the devs. They've made it a little less competitively viable, but it's still just as frustrating to play against. So the game is technically better for pros but almost nothing has changed for the plebs that do most of the playing.
Imagine a card that increases the mana cost of all cards on the stack by 1 fizzle cards that don't have enough mana. Ez when leveled makes all burst spells fast speed to force interaction. While I'd like to say rotation will solve this I would like the eternal to have solutions implemented.
I think the worst part was indeed mana reduction, most of the times mana discounts would be a late game very specific poll kind of thing, like Aurelion Sol on Celestials, or Nautilus on Monsters.
In the bandle expansions i used to play a catastrophe heimerdinger deck and i spent months refining and retooling it to the maximum possible efficiency, where the cards generated would be generally useful and ensuring i could keep copies of particularly important cards in order to play a consistent deck, and while i dont usually look up winrates, im pretty certain i had around 60% while climbing platinum, that deck was one of my most beloved, because it was always a close match, won by knowing how to play around the enemy and then finshing it all off with the big cat, that all ended the day sera came out, the deck i had spent months crafting was rendered obsolete and worthless and the archetype i loved, (playing around weak cards and using generation to play around my oponent) had been rendered into a braindead 3 card combo. I have not played a single game with a seraphine deck, because any version just makes me feel awful while playing it, why should i be playing runeterra when the play pattern is basically solitaire.
As a former hardcore LoR fan, the reason for why I quit was that the game just turned into "wait for the balance patches so you can play the game again" and frankly i simply think that the games balance is kindoff terrible and has been for a long time. They just keep releasing compleatly broken cards that just temporarily take over the entire game and rarely bother trying to fix some of the older champions flaws. And even when they try fixing the old champions flaws they just compleatly miss the mark most of the time, just look at how many new support cards they gave Vladimir, instead of fixing his already existing ones, if you were to run a Vladimir deck with all of his support cards at once you'd be looking at a 50+ card deck. Their nerfing philosophy also seems terrible nowdays, first of all they usually take way too long to nerf the new oppressive cards they add but when they finally get around to do it, they usually nerf the card into a compleatly unusable state. For example, back when Lissandra Matreon was a thing and she was able to cheat out The Watcher way too early, all they had to do was change Matreon so it only would be able to pull 10 mana cost cards, instead they nerfed Lissandras level up and made The Watcher COMPLEATLY useless. I just want the devs to stop releasing new cards at this point and take some sereos time, to look over all the champions in the game and do a MASSIVE rework, with the goal of fixing all of their past mistakes.
Isn't the deck just Avatar of the Tides at maybe a bit of speed? I do think without being burst-spelled into oblivion the deck and cards would be okay, save from the barkeep, which can stay at 7mana (or go to 8).
Love these types of videos. This gives me a better understanding why Seraphine was problematic gameplay wise. But it still feels that Ezreal is the bigger problem though.
I might be totally wrong here but I honestly think that all card generation should be from a limited pool. Either a specific pool like Invoke or from your regions.
I got into runeterra right during Searaphines release and there was nothing worse than dying from 15+ HP because of ezreal and burst spells. Super frustrating
This video hits the nail on the head. This deck made me stop playing and while aatrox/vayne might have been stronger, I could at least know what to play around. Power level was never the problem, frustrating play pattern is.
I was ok during the bandle city meta. The RNG was not that awful. I mean it was strong but generating a 2 mana spell with conchologist you still need to pay the 2 mana for an effect worth 2 mana. I just surrend everytime I was against Seraphine because it was impossible to try to find what they have. I'm glad that they nerf bar keep alley bar.
I remember lor in 2020 being a completely different game. The limited card pool actually made it possible to play around SI removing your key cards, because you knew they had 3 copies of *kill one thing* and 3 copies of *kill all things* at most. Nowadays there are so many options of doing one thing, it feels almost pointless to play around your opponent doing a certain thing. Ionia encorporates this pretty hard with 3 seperate deny effects, but even the Tellstone set allows for so mch overload of specific mechanics, it feels uncontrollable in a way.
I feel this especially in SI/Freljord decks. They can run nothing but Kill Things Somehow and a bit of ramp/heal, then instantly win the game by dropping some high mana card. I get punished for going wide and going tall and have a very limited timeframe to win.
@@CalpolMeister just that Riot is too much of a coward to actually rotate a meaningful share of the cardpool sadly. Rotating 3 out of like 60 champions doesn't solve anything even of 2 of these champions are from problematic broken archetypes (TF and Irelia). The game needs a real rotation and it needs it badly
@@tobias97erdt its a problem of critical mass. When theres too many cards that do one thing, the deck that wants to do that thing becomes too consistant. Thats one of the issues with red gwen, theres no real bad draws in that deck
Mana discount and randomly generated cards are fine until they are together, thus they shouldn't be in the same deck, so that human mind could keep track of what to play around. Unfortunetely, this is exactly the direction that riot went... Everytime Seraphine, BandleCity... Even Nab, it's random card pool with discounted card cost.
Seraphine+Ezreal was so close to modern yugioh, it scared me so death... At some point you just play 15 cards at burst, and end turn if your opp isn't already dead.
I think the best way to manage this kind of archetype….well, not to have it in the first place. but since that’s never happening, make it so that every manifested card is revealed to your opponent. This will not only ease the burden of tracking information, but provide meaningful counter play windows. It will also make a lot of the more powerful cards (atrocity, vengeance, deny, stuff like that) a lot less valuable, as you would have clear notice of its existence.
I see.. The most frustrating thing for me would be mana cheating part, because no one can guessing that specific card to play around with. 0 cost to remove Galio, a high-cost champion built in with spellshield, is such a pain in the Ashe and bullChip. You too, QUIETUS. How the Lux you casually deleted weak champion but no need to spend more mana to achieved that..
How about Ezreal only deals damage, if the X amount of mana was used to cast the spell? For example he only deals damage, when a 2 or higher cost spell was played.
I'd rather they just revert the play cast change for him something like "when your spells resolve, deal 1 damage to the enemy nexus or 2 if it targets an enemy"
How about double down on the RNG? The bar can have the same text, but add this: "All of your spells and skills now have random targets" cuz it's a bar goddamnit
This is exactly why Im annoyed we got the pink haired banshee before we got Sona, Seraphine just always has a cloud of trouble following right after her no matter where she goes
Well, ez and viktor are gone now, so hopefully the worst of it is behind us. Irelia is gone too, which is a bonus. Good riddance to all three of them (less so for poor Viktor)
Rng is something I've always hated in games that are supposed to be about skill, especially if they have COMPETITIVE SCENE!!! Frankly, I don't even like the random card draw thing in the card games, but that's kinda the point, so I can accept that at least. But when it gets as crazy as seraphine does, I just get frustrated.
It’s not that mana cheating is bad. It’s the fact that cards can be reduced to zero cost that makes things problematic. A Sol’s level 2 effect is an exception right now because it comes in so late. But if something ever makes that consistently happen mid game, it’s going to suck as well. In a card game where 1 mana or stat point change can turn a card from meh to insane (Snnuy’s 2/1 Owl suggestion for example), the value of reducing even a 1-mana card to zero is broken. I don’t know why digital TCGs keep making this mistake. Just make it so cards can’t be reduced to zero and most if not all these problems will go away. If you want to go a step further, we can have a hard limit on cost reduction. 50% rounded up or something like that. But not zero. Zero is bad. Riot, please stop making zero happen.
I think that most mana cheating should be limited to "to a minimum of 1", and some very specific effects could reduce some cards to 0. I hated playing against Seraphine decks because, as you mentioned, there is no beating "I casted 15 mana worth of spells and paid 3 for it". EDIT: Fanclub president is just atrocious, imo. The "reduce a 5 cost spell to 2" was downright disgusting.
Mana cheating on it's own can be fine, at the end of the day, you can burn through your hand if you don't restrain yourself somewhat. Random generation on it's own can be fine, either by limiting the pool of cards for generation, or by making the cost/effect eval of spending mana for random cards be actually risky (by either having many unplayable cards in the pool or by making the cost too high) Combining these two while having a champ that literally doubles the value of whatever you randomly get makes randomness lose all of the risks/safety nets that should come with it's use. Do I wanna play Wings of the Cryophoenix in a ramp Freljord deck? Hell no, it's 7 mana slow spell that does jack and takes space in my deck. Do I wanna play it randomly generated by the Barkeep if it costs 2 less and I need a quick and dirty board clear? Sure, why not. Worst case, I just use the card as discard fodder for Squeaker... It removes all limitations that come from deck building. Also, most cards printed in LoR are not straight up bad, they are just not main deck worthy. If you have access to all of them, regardless of deck size or region limitations, ofc you're gonna win...
The game. Keep promoting low cost card. . And yet. There are so many issue to be done with. Like. When you power up damge. There no limit to how much you can gain power. And yet. Your hp can only go 20 like seriously??😅😅🙄🙄🙄 Silence card. Is only limitid in some region. . Char skill or created card should only generate only once every turn. Not a life time. Bruhh🥴🥴🥴
I don't think Ez is a big problem. Now I see Sera more without him. About RNG, I think it can be funny when you or your opponent highroll nice combo or something like that. But I hate it when RNG exists in wincon mechanics. In my favourite card game gwent we had one of the worst meta for a few months. First card was a sword, that increases stats every turn if power of your units more then power of opponent's units. Usually in gwent a player who starts game has worse position, so he has extra points. But with this sword you wanted to be first player. Almost every deck had this sword, so big part of your win depended of coin toss. CDPR has nerfed this sword, but released new broken card. It creates big limitation on your deck building, only units. But the card was very strong, and again almost every deck had one card. Without spells you have less chances to find good card. In gwent you can put only one copy of strong card in your deck. And Renfri created the situation, when you need only one thing to do to win. Find her. There was one exception. In matchup Renfri vs Renfri, when both players find good cards, wins player with better luck because you chose 1 ability from 3, but she has 7 abilities. Some of them are much stronger then other. Players can just roll dice to chose who wins. It was the same feelings at Renfri meta. As I said before, I hate random in core of decks, it kills games. Thank you for reading.
If you ask me how toxic this champ is (and to a lesser extent Vayne) it made me play Yugioh again after not touching it for 12 friggin years...the amount of pain and time needed to learn and re-learn new shit from that game only to be comboed for 5+ minutes or get OTKed is much preferable than going back to the ''Seraphine meta''... I hope Riot has fixed some things though...kinda missed playing LoR now...
maybe this would be a good ezreal rework: Changed Ezreal lvl 2 : Copy deal 2 to enemy Nexus when you play mystic shot. That would make Ezreal a pure combo champion, because u have to ensure in the deck, that you have access to mystic shot to deal the necessairy face dmg.
I have issues against cards the manifest from what discover did to Hearthstone. Generating cards can be a interesting mechanic, but from sources where the body is on curve or generates at(or below) the initial cards cost is where it gets problematic. I use Hearthstone as an example as one of the generators was overtuned, the rest were subpar. Such as a 2 mana 1-1 that made a 3 mana card. Simple. But in that era tempo was big and dropping a 1-1 or spending 5 mana to rally/depend on a random 3 cost would begin a massive disadvantage. Then there was a card to took a awhile before it was given an appropriate spotlight. A on curve(5 mana 5-6) with a requirement when it came out wasn't easy. Dragon in hand when played let you discover a card from your opponent's deck. Then more dragons came along to make this trigger really easy, taking an answer from your opponents deck or even their win con in addition to your own. Wasn't a good time as the RNG felt terrible to lose to as often as I have. Then many, many more cards came along where the balance wasn't there to setback getting another cards from a trigger(often just playing it/letting it die) having me leave the game during a certain old god and later a Shaman legendary(who initially timed out turns on top of RNG). Losing mana cost was something I saw as a fun way to play with risk(usually tempo and card advantage loss to setup big turns later). The thrill of facing punishment for greed/misplays, roll the dice!
2:58 Tetris RNG vs TCG RNG this is very shallow argument because. there are only 6 shapes in Tetris, if there was say, 30 and you choose what order they came in. there would be a dynamic of "decks" that make alot of Junk, and those that clear junk easy. and how well people play those matchups
i feel like legends of runeterra needs something like the death and taxes deck from MTG, or even something like the stax deck. for anyone who isn't familiar, these decks seek to win the game by hurting your opponent's mana/mana costs, making spells more expensive, destroying mana gems etc. something to not just let these kind of 100 spells per turn decks go buckwild.
Let's be honest the biggest issue with the entirety of the Seraphine Deck. Is take it's all in one region. If some of the cards were spread out in the regions it would be much better, but for P&Z to be card generator, face pinger, card discounter, card copier, spell copier, atk buffer, spell mana generator and giving it access to other regions cards with it's own region's cards is just way, WAYYYYY to self-suffcient to even be considered fair. Like piltover might as well be locked out from being played with other regions, cause it will still see play and win games as it is currently.
How do I feel about Seraphine ruining something or someone I enjoy personally? *[audible tense silence]* ........... *[continues glaring at everyone]* ...................
I feel that mana cheating can only be fine on those big champions that basically say "if you level me win the game". Aurelian Sol is a perfect example in my opinion. He makes big cards from a limited pool FREE! But, at that stage in the game it's not broken and there is still a chance to play against it.
The best "win the game" card to me is level 3 azir. There isn't even a discount, his deck is just so obscenely high value its an unstoppable force by nature.
@@onlinepanic2036 Unless you are fighting a nab deck.
@@justascarecrow6988 nab is cool and all but when they play that card it wont have the same effect since it wont draw from the emperors deck for more value.
3 mana 5/4 fearsome? cool. i have two more.
@@onlinepanic2036 Ascended's call, the 10 mana spell that summons Nasus and Renekton at max level (AND rallies) is always on the bottom of the Emperor's Deck, so if your opponent nabs it its quite likely you lose the game, (at least that's what I would assume).
@@kayaek2558 emporors deck has 2 rallies. ascendeds call, and the landmark. and they really dont need rallies to win. most games where azir levels up xerath is carpet bombing people and sandstorms are wiping value off the board left and right.
Totally agree with the main point. Having a deck with this much RNG and mana cheating be competitively viable is no bueno. For exactly the reason you pointed out via Rubin Zoo's tweet. It removes skill based gameplay and replaces it with: praydge they don't have some bullchip. This is the kind of deck that belongs at like a 30-40% winrate. It can still be allowed to do bonkers things, just not with consistency to make it viable in competitive play.
16:09 Howling Abyss is _not_ fun to play against wtf? “Yeah, lemme just summon Aurelion Sol and Garen for free and you can just sit and watch me”
You still have to spent the mana those champions cost my boy, also in a deck that don't necessarily combo with them 😂
I wonder if the youtube algorythm will have misunderstood bullCHIP as the other word. :p
Idk who needs to hear this but equipments that can summon units aren't spells. They shouldn't fucking cost spell mana or make landmarks cost spell mana.
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! I strongly disliked the Seraphine archetype but I really didn't want this video to sound negative, but more of a "hey this is what happened during this meta and here's what we had to deal with".
This is a celebration of Runeterra and the passionate community we have.
Speaking of the awesome community, here are some of the cameos, people that helped me with the script, or generally people that inspired me with their insight:
TheLegendXVII: www.youtube.com/@TheLegendXXVII
AlanzqTFT: www.twitch.tv/alanzqtft
MajinBae: www.youtube.com/@MajiinBae
PuffballPanda: www.youtube.com/@PuffballPanda
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YelloMagi
THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH ME AND THE VIDEO, I JUST LOVE THEIR CONTENT AND WANTED TO INCLUDE THEM
Amazing video!! very well edited and i didn't feel the pass of time until i finished it! 👏👏👏
Lady pickle best streamer. not even inclucing her twitch smh
we need more undertale music in your videos !!!
RELEASE YOUR MARIO KART VIDEOS!!!!
she should be good with decks like avatar of the tide or some control like that, not some bullsh't 20 to 0 magic
Hillarious how Seraphine almost ruined one game and came to another just to do the same
At least she didn't ruin WR.
EXACTLY
Seraphine didn't ruin league at all, people just like to hate on her.
@@Cheasle2 People had several reasons to hate her and most of them are justified. The one i like the most is that Riot keeps nerfing Sona and could easily used Seraphine's kit do be Sona's rework making it easier to balance.
@@euqinemor Seraphine is very far from being a problematic champ compared to other recent ones when it comes to this anyway.
Also while they are quite similar, Sona is more of an Enchanter, Seraphine is more of a control mage.
The issue of Sona not receiving buffs is more noticed because they look similar, but go check how many 6300 shards champs are costantly picked vs older ones.
Some stood the test of time (Yi for example), but how often do you see Soraka? Garen? Ashe as an actual ADC? They aren't necessarly bad, just like Sona, but their pick rates are tanked by having similar but superior choices.
I really like Soraka modern kit, but I still play Nami over her because... Why wouldn't I? Nami is strong no matter what. Soraka heals way too little compared to the average DPS these days
Snuuy: "Seraphine-"
Chat: AAAAAAAAAA
Kai'sa: levels
Chat: STAH GARDIAN HYA
Honestly I think bar, songspinner and old ionian telsones were more degenerate than Seraphine, but yes, she is problematic. Spell champion for spell region is like putting a rabbit into australia - complete disaster. Also it's quite fun that after the nerf she became even more degenerate with Bandlephine and Seryzephine decks.
Songspinner should be a slow spell and generated spells should cost at the very least 1 mana. I think those changes would be interesting.
@@deshelo4343 it would be a dead card than. Imagine spending 10 mana for 3 not-so-good spells? Moreover, there were always have been spell champs in spell regions as it should be - Ezreal, Karma, Lee Sin?
@@sailorjojo7771 I don't really think spell champs being part of spell regions are the big problem. The problem is the randomness of those *new* 2 cost spells. Ok, maybe slow spell AND set their costs to 1 is a bit overkill, but the fact that they are almost totally random freaks me out, you just can't play around them (specially if you don't have the mana to do so). Besides, 2 cost spells are usually pretty decent and versatile, unlike higher cost spells which are usually good in a very specific context.
In the end, you chose to play around the randomness, and therefore you must accept the risks.
@@sailorjojo7771 Yeah, I've said it wrong. I mean, Karma as double cast champion is fine because she is basically a 10 mana champion and she's from Ionia, where are no spells worth being doubled. Like, you'll get even more protection, but it won't help you to actually win the game, so you'll have to pair her with something good. Seraphine on the other hand is in the region, which benefits highly from spells (2 mana fast decimate), so she with ezreal can choose any secondary region, that's why ezrephine-noxus was so cringe.
Seraphine and her support cards should at least be region locked so there rng isn't complete bs. Also seraphine should be a 1/2 since she can lvl in deck, cause as of now she's too hard to remove for a cheap unit that can come down and allow you to vomit out vaule.
As a League player I think its kinda funny how I thought that this was about the League Seraphine incident when she was released. Another thing that is funny is Ezreal constantly coming back into meta because of random cards, just like how he comes into meta in LoL randomly whenever new items are introduced.
Seraphine, Fanclub President and Songspinner, and maybe some others (essentially the piltover music package), should reveal the cards they create or draw. It would be pretty favourful for the "music cards" to show off to the opponent their creations.
Back Alley bar should have "new and not reduced cards cost 1 less". That way you can have fun with the "new card" archetype, but can't stack discounts with viktor, drum solo, fanclub, etc.
I really think discounts + random cards is the problem. If you want to nerf discounts, fine, but I believe that in order to not postpone the problem for a new card to break the game, just freaking reveal the created cards. That solves the "impossible to play around" problem for good, even if new cards are introduced to the pool, or that stack discounts.
Put a Countdown on BAB so it dissipates, or disolve after playing X cards. Cant discoubt the whole store right?
@@pedropimenta896 Bar costs 7 mana now, it's too expensive for a countdown.
I think they could make bar like Sera from Marvel Snap and make it so That it cant discount card to 0 cost
You are getting better and better at making these!
Proud of you
Seraphine was my breaking point. I went from being a sweaty masters player to uninstalling the game and haven't played since.
Seracringe....
This is a very good video! So much fun to watch.
Cringe Seraphine: Why does everyone hate me? You are supposed to like me!
Chad Aatrox: "Come. Let me earn their hatred. Again. And forever."
YES, at least aatrox is chad when he kills you
@@arjunbaweja7755 I just want Aatrox to get his happy ending… 😢
reddit is down the hall to the left
@@Headchrusherdethrope chair and soap are waiting you at home
I want seraphine decks to be actually unplayable.
I actually like the idea of Seraphine, I hate how it is achieved : Mana reduction to spam spells with an Ezreal abusing it.
I think if bar and Ezreal would be removed she would be an ok champ
Before seraphine got added to the game there weren't any problematic bar decks and ezreal wasn't really meta. Seraphine and her support cards are what's enabling those 2.
@@travisprescott9708 "ezreal wasn't meta" literally the very first ever meta in closed beta was elnuks ezreal
@@dankmemes8254 Ok, I'm talking about now. There wasn't an OP deck using ezreal at the time of her release, last time was kennen but that was a while ago.
@@travisprescott9708 mid take. If you look at the history, ezreal has a HISTORY of enabling toxic decks. Can't argue with bar tho fuck bar.
@@travisprescott9708 while that is indeed true, the fact that Ezreal has consistently been a problem champ and attempts to break every new spell-based champion with the same boring combo has ruined what little goodwill he has by not being primary issue. IMO, him rotating is potentially one of the best ways to open up game design in the future…
Wanna see what Sunny has to say, Sera actually made me stop playing the game for good
Same. The only reason i'm not angry about it, is because i am now having a good time playing marvel snap. So it kinda happened at the same time so it feels like more of an organic break
Seeing the Puffball Panda and MajiinBae in here was so cool and very funny.
the worst metas in runeterra imo were
-azirelia
-kaisa post launch
-seraphine post launch
people argue that vayne post launch and Aatrox rn are also bad metas but they have nothing on how cheated we felt from these 3 combos. Aatrox respects your mana and gives you time to react, that is something i cannot say for the others, especially seraphine and kaisa, that would essencially burst fuck you. Finally they took some good hits, it is still frustrating when they get lucky but at least we have more counterplay now.
The number one reason I quit LoR. I got tired of seeing thesamw Seraphine decks over and over. At least in the broken decks from the past, you can predict what your opponent can have in their hand and plan for their counters. Against Seraphine decks, you have no idea what card fanclub president just created.
i vehemently hate seraphine due to the numerous controversies she stirred up with her launch in league, so frankly i'm not okay with her existence anywhere, everything you mentioned in this video was just more fuel for the fire
YES! YES! THIS VIDEO IS PERFECTION! Mana cheating is one of the most annoying things you can have in a card game. As a player of magic the gathering i can say that when a card has zero cost or you can play another card for free it is a broken card. If your oponnent is out of mana, HE SHOULDN´T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!
Ya, I stopped playing when Seraphine came out, started playing again when she got nerfed. Been playing since beta and that was single-handedly the worst experience for me.
Galio dying to 0 mana ...
What has this game become ?
That note on the right alone is such a fantastic design, goddamn. Fantastic art
Meanwhile Hearthstone players watching their opponent spend 3 mana to play 28 cards that clear their board, draw half of the deck, summon huge minions with stealth and deal 15 damage to their face: "Yeah, those Runeterra problems are huge"
"Almost" is a mild word honestly.
I stopped playing Runeterra because of the Seraphine meta, straight afther the Kai'Sa meta. RNG isn't so much the issue standalone, it was the fact that you cannot safely predict what the opponent might or might not have, because they could still play random cards from all over the game, empty their hand, for 0 mana...
I wanna suggest a good solution. Make certain discounts (0 mana cards are fine as long as the yare balanced being around 0 mana) only grant up to a maxiumum of 1 mana, maining if you draw a 2 cost card with Drum solo's flow, it would go down to 1 mana instead of 0.
Why i suggest this? Im taking a example from another card game i fell in love with lately, Marvel SNAP. Whilst it is controversial because it completly reïnvents the card battler genre (Or how TF you wanna call it) But has some verry carefull and well tought out mechanics. Almost all discounts (Except for a single location that is not deck-dependant, so that is just pure RNg if you will see it or not) have a MAXIUM of reducing cards to 1 cost, meaning you cannot physically cheat out cards for free if you maindeck said cost reductions.
BTW Snnuy, we should talk about marvel SNAP sometimes, i think i have quite a bit of ideas that are great examples of doing cards right AND wrong. Take this saying i have "he whom doesn't learn from their mistakes, doesn't progress. He whom learns from their mistakes, progresses. But he whom, lerns from his mistakes, but also others mistakes, evolves."
Snnuy was my wonderful discovery of 2022
Every video I watch of him is so enjoyable to me, I watch at least one of his videos daily
You can just say "RNG", Seraphine was just the poor champion to get to represent it. She deserved way better, it drive me insane how flow was MADE for her and how she could work along with it but they decided to make her a fucking random generator...
It is like how Ahri paid for elusives crime + kennen being the only creature recall card properly giving some kind of tempo/combo capacity.
I think this mentality from the devs of making something that might be really fun to play but is always frustrating to play against started back in rising tides with the nab mechanic. Although it hasn't really been meta relevant, I've never played against a nab deck and thought "that was a fun game". In my opinion, losing to your own win condition (that has been discounted by merchant) is a worse feeling than getting blown out by reggie.
As a competitive player, I agree with what you said. Seraphine almost made me quit the game. When you play against her or other powerful rng cards (peak, timelines), it feels like you decisions over the game just don't matter anymore, what matters is how good your opponent can roll.
I don't want to be sound selfish and self-centered, but I noticed that when a champion that I hate in league is added in runeterra, it olso creates the most busted and toxic metas. Ex: I hate irelia, azir/irelia meta, always thought Kai'Sa was an horrible addition to the void (one of my favorite regions), the Kai'Sa compo meta, and now Seraphine who was universally hated from day 0, together with her package, got us the rng meta.
Sorry that I sound self-centered, I just couldn't ignore the cruel irony.
Went from a huge advocate of the game in 2020 to completely dropping it early 2022. No specific event led me to give it up, but just a culmination of far too many randomly generated cards (including cards that are randomly chosen from a select pool, like Celestials etc) and resource overabundance. Not interested in playing a card game where everyone is so full of gas all the time. I need attrition. Great video summing up the history of RNG in this game. Glad I got out before Serapine :)
Sunny, I almost thought you said Seraphine was "healthy for the game" in the Bar part, please, don't do that again
Funny story
The game that made me stop using the deck i won because conchologist created a timelines and bar created a void abomination.
So because bar made the abomination cost 1 less i was able to transform it into a shipwreck hoard, wich was deep.
So in the deck with no big creatures as threats i won because i dropped a fuckin 10/8 with elusive and all the other keywords my viktor had.
Out of all of the regions, pnz was by far the one I hated the most, probably the only one I could say I hated to begin with. Once Seraphine was released, it was just of a nail in the coffin for me 'cus they were just proving to me how awful pnz was to play against by adding more of what I hated to begin with.
I always said when I used to play champions like Ezreal or Fiora will be either always a problem or to useless to be played properly
Ezreal is in what his 5th or 6th nerf and still always find a way to apear (atleast when I used to play) 1 or 2 times for year in a toxic meta.
And in the other hand you have champions like fiora that need to be useless because if she is in the meta and winning usually means something its wrong
I think the only problem with RNG is the mana discount. It doesn't matter if you get bad luck with draw or card generation if it's free and you can just try it again.
You shouldn't be able to play 20 cards on one turn in a game with max 13 mana.
I agree except for the part about having faith in the devs. They've made it a little less competitively viable, but it's still just as frustrating to play against. So the game is technically better for pros but almost nothing has changed for the plebs that do most of the playing.
Delete all Seraphine cards. It's a mistake.
8:25 glad to see a content creator calling out this stupid change. My respect for you has grown, Snnuy.
Imagine a card that increases the mana cost of all cards on the stack by 1 fizzle cards that don't have enough mana.
Ez when leveled makes all burst spells fast speed to force interaction.
While I'd like to say rotation will solve this I would like the eternal to have solutions implemented.
Yeah seraphine ruins every game it touches but its funny how ezreal can still find bullshit builds every 5 seconds in an entirely different game
0:38 dude the timing of that soundeffect in combination with your face just going into disappointment mode. I can’t stop laughing at it😂
Hope rioters see this. Ah wait, they will just hide the problem under the rug with rotations, the laziest of the "solutions".
when i called doom when they revealed seraphine and her support cards (especially the support cards), no one wanted to believe lol
I think the worst part was indeed mana reduction, most of the times mana discounts would be a late game very specific poll kind of thing, like Aurelion Sol on Celestials, or Nautilus on Monsters.
In the bandle expansions i used to play a catastrophe heimerdinger deck and i spent months refining and retooling it to the maximum possible efficiency, where the cards generated would be generally useful and ensuring i could keep copies of particularly important cards in order to play a consistent deck, and while i dont usually look up winrates, im pretty certain i had around 60% while climbing platinum, that deck was one of my most beloved, because it was always a close match, won by knowing how to play around the enemy and then finshing it all off with the big cat, that all ended the day sera came out, the deck i had spent months crafting was rendered obsolete and worthless and the archetype i loved, (playing around weak cards and using generation to play around my oponent) had been rendered into a braindead 3 card combo. I have not played a single game with a seraphine deck, because any version just makes me feel awful while playing it, why should i be playing runeterra when the play pattern is basically solitaire.
As someone who love the big cat before the sera incident, i feel you
even tho bar is nerfed, it still sucks to play against imo! :P
Thank you Chip for the Censorship. Random bullchip is the best!
As a former hardcore LoR fan, the reason for why I quit was that the game just turned into "wait for the balance patches so you can play the game again" and frankly i simply think that the games balance is kindoff terrible and has been for a long time.
They just keep releasing compleatly broken cards that just temporarily take over the entire game and rarely bother trying to fix some of the older champions flaws. And even when they try fixing the old champions flaws they just compleatly miss the mark most of the time, just look at how many new support cards they gave Vladimir, instead of fixing his already existing ones, if you were to run a Vladimir deck with all of his support cards at once you'd be looking at a 50+ card deck.
Their nerfing philosophy also seems terrible nowdays, first of all they usually take way too long to nerf the new oppressive cards they add but when they finally get around to do it, they usually nerf the card into a compleatly unusable state. For example, back when Lissandra Matreon was a thing and she was able to cheat out The Watcher way too early, all they had to do was change Matreon so it only would be able to pull 10 mana cost cards, instead they nerfed Lissandras level up and made The Watcher COMPLEATLY useless.
I just want the devs to stop releasing new cards at this point and take some sereos time, to look over all the champions in the game and do a MASSIVE rework, with the goal of fixing all of their past mistakes.
Isn't the deck just Avatar of the Tides at maybe a bit of speed?
I do think without being burst-spelled into oblivion the deck and cards would be okay, save from the barkeep, which can stay at 7mana (or go to 8).
Love these types of videos. This gives me a better understanding why Seraphine was problematic gameplay wise. But it still feels that Ezreal is the bigger problem though.
9:10 I can't 😂😂😂😂
I might be totally wrong here but I honestly think that all card generation should be from a limited pool. Either a specific pool like Invoke or from your regions.
Also rotate Ezreal.
Please stop not referring to her as “Belle Delphine - the Champion”
I got into runeterra right during Searaphines release and there was nothing worse than dying from 15+ HP because of ezreal and burst spells. Super frustrating
This.
This is the reason I stopped playing Runeterra.
I like that in both games that Seraphine was in, no matter what she was a problem one way or another
This video hits the nail on the head. This deck made me stop playing and while aatrox/vayne might have been stronger, I could at least know what to play around. Power level was never the problem, frustrating play pattern is.
I stopped playing when Seraphine came out.
Almost? It did. A lot of the player base quit.
I'm not really in LoR anymore but OMG those videos are always so good!!! Thanks for sharing dude
I was ok during the bandle city meta. The RNG was not that awful. I mean it was strong but generating a 2 mana spell with conchologist you still need to pay the 2 mana for an effect worth 2 mana. I just surrend everytime I was against Seraphine because it was impossible to try to find what they have. I'm glad that they nerf bar keep alley bar.
is the balance team in this game run by monkeys?
I remember lor in 2020 being a completely different game. The limited card pool actually made it possible to play around SI removing your key cards, because you knew they had 3 copies of *kill one thing* and 3 copies of *kill all things* at most.
Nowadays there are so many options of doing one thing, it feels almost pointless to play around your opponent doing a certain thing.
Ionia encorporates this pretty hard with 3 seperate deny effects, but even the Tellstone set allows for so mch overload of specific mechanics, it feels uncontrollable in a way.
I feel this especially in SI/Freljord decks. They can run nothing but Kill Things Somehow and a bit of ramp/heal, then instantly win the game by dropping some high mana card. I get punished for going wide and going tall and have a very limited timeframe to win.
Thats why Rotation is on the way BAYBEE
@@CalpolMeister just that Riot is too much of a coward to actually rotate a meaningful share of the cardpool sadly.
Rotating 3 out of like 60 champions doesn't solve anything even of 2 of these champions are from problematic broken archetypes (TF and Irelia).
The game needs a real rotation and it needs it badly
@@tobias97erdt its a problem of critical mass. When theres too many cards that do one thing, the deck that wants to do that thing becomes too consistant. Thats one of the issues with red gwen, theres no real bad draws in that deck
Mana discount and randomly generated cards are fine until they are together, thus they shouldn't be in the same deck, so that human mind could keep track of what to play around. Unfortunetely, this is exactly the direction that riot went... Everytime
Seraphine, BandleCity... Even Nab, it's random card pool with discounted card cost.
Everywhere she goes she ruin it, The ruined queen
Seraphine+Ezreal was so close to modern yugioh, it scared me so death... At some point you just play 15 cards at burst, and end turn if your opp isn't already dead.
Obliterate all enemy's created cards.
There are many languages out there and Snnuy decided to speak in facts.
I think the best way to manage this kind of archetype….well, not to have it in the first place. but since that’s never happening, make it so that every manifested card is revealed to your opponent. This will not only ease the burden of tracking information, but provide meaningful counter play windows. It will also make a lot of the more powerful cards (atrocity, vengeance, deny, stuff like that) a lot less valuable, as you would have clear notice of its existence.
0:43 xD
The Waffle house has found it's new host
Riot ran out of ideas with Bandle City and has been relying on powercreep and RNG ever since. It's disgusting.
I see.. The most frustrating thing for me would be mana cheating part, because no one can guessing that specific card to play around with.
0 cost to remove Galio, a high-cost champion built in with spellshield, is such a pain in the Ashe and bullChip.
You too, QUIETUS. How the Lux you casually deleted weak champion but no need to spend more mana to achieved that..
How about Ezreal only deals damage, if the X amount of mana was used to cast the spell? For example he only deals damage, when a 2 or higher cost spell was played.
Nah... Just rotate out ezreal
I'd rather they just revert the play cast change for him something like "when your spells resolve, deal 1 damage to the enemy nexus or 2 if it targets an enemy"
W Rayman music.gigachad moment
they tried to be hearthstone for 4 months
Uhmmmmm... why the almost?
How about double down on the RNG?
The bar can have the same text, but add this: "All of your spells and skills now have random targets" cuz it's a bar goddamnit
This is exactly why Im annoyed we got the pink haired banshee before we got Sona, Seraphine just always has a cloud of trouble following right after her no matter where she goes
Perfect explanation
"A cloud of trouble following her, no matter where she goes"
Just perfect
I am still in the PoC cave until Sera completely gutted
Sera/Ez makes me quit the game
Well, ez and viktor are gone now, so hopefully the worst of it is behind us. Irelia is gone too, which is a bonus. Good riddance to all three of them (less so for poor Viktor)
Rng is something I've always hated in games that are supposed to be about skill, especially if they have COMPETITIVE SCENE!!! Frankly, I don't even like the random card draw thing in the card games, but that's kinda the point, so I can accept that at least. But when it gets as crazy as seraphine does, I just get frustrated.
It’s not that mana cheating is bad. It’s the fact that cards can be reduced to zero cost that makes things problematic.
A Sol’s level 2 effect is an exception right now because it comes in so late. But if something ever makes that consistently happen mid game, it’s going to suck as well.
In a card game where 1 mana or stat point change can turn a card from meh to insane (Snnuy’s 2/1 Owl suggestion for example), the value of reducing even a 1-mana card to zero is broken.
I don’t know why digital TCGs keep making this mistake. Just make it so cards can’t be reduced to zero and most if not all these problems will go away.
If you want to go a step further, we can have a hard limit on cost reduction. 50% rounded up or something like that.
But not zero. Zero is bad. Riot, please stop making zero happen.
I think that most mana cheating should be limited to "to a minimum of 1", and some very specific effects could reduce some cards to 0. I hated playing against Seraphine decks because, as you mentioned, there is no beating "I casted 15 mana worth of spells and paid 3 for it".
EDIT: Fanclub president is just atrocious, imo. The "reduce a 5 cost spell to 2" was downright disgusting.
Mana cheating on it's own can be fine, at the end of the day, you can burn through your hand if you don't restrain yourself somewhat.
Random generation on it's own can be fine, either by limiting the pool of cards for generation, or by making the cost/effect eval of spending mana for random cards be actually risky (by either having many unplayable cards in the pool or by making the cost too high)
Combining these two while having a champ that literally doubles the value of whatever you randomly get makes randomness lose all of the risks/safety nets that should come with it's use. Do I wanna play Wings of the Cryophoenix in a ramp Freljord deck? Hell no, it's 7 mana slow spell that does jack and takes space in my deck. Do I wanna play it randomly generated by the Barkeep if it costs 2 less and I need a quick and dirty board clear? Sure, why not. Worst case, I just use the card as discard fodder for Squeaker... It removes all limitations that come from deck building. Also, most cards printed in LoR are not straight up bad, they are just not main deck worthy. If you have access to all of them, regardless of deck size or region limitations, ofc you're gonna win...
The game. Keep promoting low cost card. .
And yet.
There are so many issue to be done with. Like. When you power up damge. There no limit to how much you can gain power. And yet. Your hp can only go 20 like seriously??😅😅🙄🙄🙄 Silence card. Is only limitid in some region. . Char skill or created card should only generate only once every turn. Not a life time. Bruhh🥴🥴🥴
I don't think Ez is a big problem. Now I see Sera more without him. About RNG, I think it can be funny when you or your opponent highroll nice combo or something like that. But I hate it when RNG exists in wincon mechanics. In my favourite card game gwent we had one of the worst meta for a few months. First card was a sword, that increases stats every turn if power of your units more then power of opponent's units. Usually in gwent a player who starts game has worse position, so he has extra points. But with this sword you wanted to be first player. Almost every deck had this sword, so big part of your win depended of coin toss. CDPR has nerfed this sword, but released new broken card. It creates big limitation on your deck building, only units. But the card was very strong, and again almost every deck had one card. Without spells you have less chances to find good card. In gwent you can put only one copy of strong card in your deck. And Renfri created the situation, when you need only one thing to do to win. Find her. There was one exception. In matchup Renfri vs Renfri, when both players find good cards, wins player with better luck because you chose 1 ability from 3, but she has 7 abilities. Some of them are much stronger then other. Players can just roll dice to chose who wins. It was the same feelings at Renfri meta.
As I said before, I hate random in core of decks, it kills games. Thank you for reading.
If you ask me how toxic this champ is (and to a lesser extent Vayne) it made me play Yugioh again after not touching it for 12 friggin years...the amount of pain and time needed to learn and re-learn new shit from that game only to be comboed for 5+ minutes or get OTKed is much preferable than going back to the ''Seraphine meta''...
I hope Riot has fixed some things though...kinda missed playing LoR now...
maybe this would be a good ezreal rework: Changed Ezreal lvl 2 : Copy deal 2 to enemy Nexus when you play mystic shot. That would make Ezreal a pure combo champion, because u have to ensure in the deck, that you have access to mystic shot to deal the necessairy face dmg.
I have issues against cards the manifest from what discover did to Hearthstone. Generating cards can be a interesting mechanic, but from sources where the body is on curve or generates at(or below) the initial cards cost is where it gets problematic. I use Hearthstone as an example as one of the generators was overtuned, the rest were subpar. Such as a 2 mana 1-1 that made a 3 mana card. Simple. But in that era tempo was big and dropping a 1-1 or spending 5 mana to rally/depend on a random 3 cost would begin a massive disadvantage. Then there was a card to took a awhile before it was given an appropriate spotlight. A on curve(5 mana 5-6) with a requirement when it came out wasn't easy. Dragon in hand when played let you discover a card from your opponent's deck. Then more dragons came along to make this trigger really easy, taking an answer from your opponents deck or even their win con in addition to your own. Wasn't a good time as the RNG felt terrible to lose to as often as I have. Then many, many more cards came along where the balance wasn't there to setback getting another cards from a trigger(often just playing it/letting it die) having me leave the game during a certain old god and later a Shaman legendary(who initially timed out turns on top of RNG).
Losing mana cost was something I saw as a fun way to play with risk(usually tempo and card advantage loss to setup big turns later). The thrill of facing punishment for greed/misplays, roll the dice!
2:58 Tetris RNG vs TCG RNG
this is very shallow argument because.
there are only 6 shapes in Tetris, if there was say, 30 and you choose what order they came in. there would be a dynamic of "decks" that make alot of Junk, and those that clear junk easy. and how well people play those matchups
i feel like legends of runeterra needs something like the death and taxes deck from MTG, or even something like the stax deck. for anyone who isn't familiar, these decks seek to win the game by hurting your opponent's mana/mana costs, making spells more expensive, destroying mana gems etc. something to not just let these kind of 100 spells per turn decks go buckwild.
Let's be honest the biggest issue with the entirety of the Seraphine Deck. Is take it's all in one region. If some of the cards were spread out in the regions it would be much better, but for P&Z to be card generator, face pinger, card discounter, card copier, spell copier, atk buffer, spell mana generator and giving it access to other regions cards with it's own region's cards is just way, WAYYYYY to self-suffcient to even be considered fair. Like piltover might as well be locked out from being played with other regions, cause it will still see play and win games as it is currently.
How do I feel about Seraphine ruining something or someone I enjoy personally?
*[audible tense silence]*
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*[continues glaring at everyone]*
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