As a former crew chief on both aircraft, the F-16 is MUCH easier to work on. The F-15E will always have a special place in my heart, but that f-16 made life much easier when it came to hydraulics or flight control rigging etc… I’m a pilot these days, but I sure miss wrenching on those damn things.
@@MaxAfterburnerusaWhat I'm curious about is how the Viper maneuvers in DCS. Its nose just doesn't move around as quick as the 15C or 15E. Is this how it is in real life?
Excellent video… Really puts a non-flyer like me in the cockpit. I did some remodeling work, and befriended, I retired Air Force F15 pilot. I loved his stories. He bought a house on Lake Washington to view the blue Angels at Seafair every year and invited me and others down to watch with him. One of my best memories. Thanks for sharing
Really good run-down. As a former F-16 guy myself, with experience fighting against F-15s in training, aircraft size was also a huge plus for the Viper, especially in multi vs multi WVR engagements. Eagle pilots/crews would very often lose sight of us, while tracking F-15s visually was not a big problem (in fact, I was more worried about losing sight of my own wingmen - something that IRL led to a real tragic accident when I was flying at Hahn, Germany, although I was not involved myself). Anyway, the only other thing I will add is that the F-16E and F-16 Blk70/72 do remedy , to a large extent, your (valid) comments about displays. But then again, the F-15EX improves in that area as well.
How about BVR? Does really the F-15 has that much of an advantage in BVR when we talking speed, altitude and its radar size vs. knowing how big its RCS is vs. smaller much lower RCS Viper?
@@spookyNorbert Depends a lot on the specific radar type installed on the aircraft. You are correct about the (rather massive) difference in RCS, but any one of those (F-15 or F-16) equipped with an AESA will have a significant advantage in BVR combat when pitted against a conventional radar. All USAF F-15s have AESAs, but only a small percentage of F-16s do (although that will keep increasing in the next few years). So hard to come up with a generic answer to your (good ) question.
You're dead right, KRG. But, to take it even further, the F-15 being twice the size means it is twice the cost, and the same budget only buys and operates half as many F-15's as F-16's. A force of twice as many F-16's is a much more capable force.
@@MaxPalmer-1 Agree on general principle, but the calculations are a bit more complex than that. Like base infrastructure might be a bit cheaper for F-16s but not nearly half. Also you will lose a few more single-engine jets in peacetime. And the F-15 does not cost twice as much as an F-16, more like 30 to 40% more (depends a lot on the exact variant). Still, great point.
@@KRGruner Col John Boyd was pretty much right in the biography where he said "You buy planes by the pound, just like potatoes." Checking current costing, I see $63M for F-16 block 70/72, and $117mil for volume deliveries of the F-15EX. The first 8 plane order of F-15EX was $150M each. The Air Force reported in 2013 that F-16C operating cost was $22.5k/hour, and F-15C operating cost was $41.9k/hour. The last time the Air Force allowed a volume trial of F-15 vs F-16 (1992), the two Air National Guard F-16 squadrons defeated all five regular Air Force F-15 squadrons. The F-16 is the more effective fighter, and it is not much more than half the cost.
I remember reading Boyd's book. He wanted more wing area on the F-16. One of his acolytes betrayed him. Can only imagine what corning in that thin would have been like if he got it the way he wanted it. He got most of what he wanted though.
The combo is the f15ex. You get Fly-by-wire in new iron that can maximize the airframe’s performance and pilot’s situation awareness while delivering massive ordinance in the air and on the ground to any target in the world…EX gets my vote!
As a former F-111 guy, I think the F-15E is the natural successor to the F-4 Phantom II, more than the F-111. Like the F-15E, the F-4 could fight its way in, hit the target and fight its way home. Apart from the period when F-111Fs (at RAF Lakenheath, where I was stationed) carried AIM 9Ls, the F-111 had no ability to fight its way in or out. And we were constantly reminded of that reality. We focused on being awesome at long range interdiction and other strike missions.
Very true,@@JamesinAZ. In fact, our Ops CO at Lakenheath had been shot down in his F-111 late in the Vietnam war. Luckily, he was only a PoW for six months (before the PoWs were released).
@matthewnewnham-runner-writer The POWs suffered under horrendous conditions. If I remember correctly, during Rolling Thunder(which was before the 'Vark went operational) many of the losses occured over Route Pack 6, over North Vietnam. Its just incredible to see how the F-111 really came out of testing, and immediately went combat operational. I feel that plane has proven itself extremely reliable and effective in its role. It's been awhile since I've read up, but is it true the role of the plane was to do deep penetration missions in Eastern Europe?
Great content! As a layman and non-pilot, the F-15's evolution from the definition of Air Superiority Fighter into a powerful ground attack platform (F-15E) is stunning!
Thanks for making things on point, understandable, and with passion. Aim High Air Force! 56th Supply Squadron at Luke AFB 93'! Daddy, you didn't get your attorney or MD but createda angry kid lol! Like my friend at March Field Air Museum, a career as a truck driver at 50. He -- Karl Hall-- fell of the wing of a Super Saber in Laken Heath in England and was removed from flight status. He was a F-111 test squadron pilot before. Both of us regret leaving the Air Force. He one day said, "Francisco, there are many pilots in the USAF but how many do you know have an Emmy lol." He was a technical consultant in X Games and He was recognized. I got my Emmy too but working in a cancer hospital for 10 years. God bless.
I'm a Green Beret and I love these videos bro! Such a completely different world y'all experience but very cool and interesting nonetheless. Still prefer HALO jumping to pulling Gs but that's just me haha!
I enjoyed your video. I flew the A-37B back in the day. It was pretty good at close air support and fun to fly but, holy cow, it wasn't even in the same universe as these machines. It was somewhere between low tech and no tech. I'm just amazed at these modern fighters.
Many years ago (around 1983 or 1984) I was the Weapons Crew Chief at the Arm end EOR crew at Nellis (57th FWW) and we had a four-ship that was in chocks and getting armed. This was back when the Block 10 F-16A was the Sierra Hotel jet that all of the fighter jocks wanted to drive, for all you GD/LM history buffs. We were on the second or third jet, and I'm on the headset with the pilot while my #2 and #3 crew members are arming him, when a two-ship of OA-37s roll up next to us. Seeing those whip-style antennae on that aircraft, the pilot of the jet we're arming says; "Hey, look at the radio-controlled planes that just parked!" I just thought that was one of the funniest dead-pan lines that I heard any pile-it speak outside of the O-club Theater of Operations! 🤣🤣
A good pilot is a magic association with any craft, and a good wiso is the icing on the cake. You said it, they are a critical team, each dependent on the other. The extra engine in the F-15 adds that little bit of charm for over unity thrust.
F-16 was designed to be a point defense day VFR fighter, and the Air Force turned it into a medium range interdiction bomber. Both have thrust to weight ratios of better than 1 to 1. I know Eagle drivers who called Viper pilots the Security Police Augmentation Force. Originally, the Viper was designed with a pressure-only, non-moving sidestick. We think and react according to motion, though, which is why the Viper has a stick that moves about an inch.
I flew the F-4 then the F-111 before I flew the F-15E as a WSO/EWO. I saw the E as being what the 4 always wanted to be. Yes, the E did long range strike like the Vark as well. One thing I learned as a WSO flying BFM in the F-4 was that my thighs were a natural deterrent for the pilot putting it our of control. As the G came on my thighs came together keeping lateral input of the stick. I used that technique in the E as well.
I asked Hoover in an email which aircraft he liked the most. He flew both the Strike Eagle and on the Marine Corps exchange program the F/A-18. He said he enjoyed flying both but called the F-15E, "An absolute war machine." I see your B-Roll has Strike Eagles from Seymour Johnson. Were you ever stationed there? I live around MCAS Cherry Point. Hoover said in one of his accident videos about a restricted airspace he used to go to R-5306A for training. You ever been out there?
Heyyy, I used to be stationed at MCAS Cherry Point - in a MAG-32 Harrier Support Sqdn. I love all of these planes but my 1st crush is the AV8-B Harrier - the Marine Aviators who fly them are intellectual beasts of courage, IMHO, because it takes so much time and training just to keep it from flipping over and crashing hard - with the cockpit slamming into the ground and the wheels and nozzles facing up. In fact, they still fly them at Cherry Point - that is, until they receive their F-35s. PS: How's Havelock now? Back in the 80s and 90s it was a very small town with very limited options for shopping and/or entertainments - you needed a car to either go to Atlantic Beach, Beaufort, Newbern, Kinston, and Greenville or surrounding areas....
The only things that matter these days are the radar diameter and power. the number of missiles you can carry and the range of those missiles (think Meteor or R-37). Being nimble just helps you survive sometimes.
F-16 seems like it would be a lot more fun to fly. That compact, simpler instrument panel, the G tolerances, the unobstructed bubble canopy and better field of vision, and the side stick just make it look like a more enjoyable plane to fly.
That's what I was thinking. Although if you didn't know what you were walking into that F15 with more cannon ammo , couple of extra missiles, and that longer range radar might be more comforting. Especially if SU27's and Mig29's are likely to be the enemy.
Such a great and comprehensive comparison. Thanks for sharing your experience while going though the topic. Amazing birds, just like F/A-18, A-10 and of course F-22.
The requirement for the F-15 was born out of the very hard lessons of Vietnam, not just from the "fighter mafia" wanting an air dominance platform. The F-15 that we got was born out of buying into the propaganda of the Mig-25 and it's rumored abilities, and what we got out of that fear is the most dominant Air dominance platform to date since we all know that the Mig-25 wasn't anything close to what we were lead to believe.
“not just from the "fighter mafia"" Not from the "Fighter Mafia" at all. They were against the F-15 and thought it was a waste of money and overly complex. The "Fighter Mafia" wanted the F-16.
I built E, I n’ S models. Fun fact: the main bulkheads on many of these are milled from a soild titanium block that was once part of a Russian submarine.
The fighter mafia, I thought had developed the F-16, essentially as a low cost, low weight air superiority fighter, and as it is still critical for the air force, I believe it met its obligations and then some. This takes nothing away from the F-15, of course, which is a whole other ball of wax. The concept of adding conformal fuel tanks has brilliantly extended the fighting range of both aircraft.
The F16 block 70 looks sexy. If I'm correct it has a better radar, which was on of it's disadvantages. The things that still need to improve in the F16 is the landing gear and the brakes so that it can be operated from regular roads. Planes like the Gripen and the Eurofighter have the advantage in this area.
Would landimg gear be enough or is its debris problem still fatal? As that can't he easily fixed without a brand new plane. I understood that giant gulper up front was the biggest issue with roads. Happy to be corrected, this is a question not me telling how it is.
Would be so cool to see guest on the podcast such as lover and gonky ward Carroll hlc and wombat even mace would be cool considering you both flew air shows
My Uncle-in-Law was stationed at Edwards Airforce Base. He was a Lt. Cornell when he retired. He was an F-16 pilot, F-16 instructor, and test pilot. He had input on the avionics in the cockpit of the (at the time) X-35. Great guy. He now flies for South West out of DFW. He wanted to get the F-15 originally but was assigned to the F-16.
The word at the time was that the military was interested in a dual-engine aircraft that had longer range and better armament. There were other advantages as you have presented.
F-14 Tomcat, two man ship, I got a toy model in the late 70s, the swing wings, AIM-54 Phoenix, it was as you say awesome. The F-16A was a light weight killer, later versions strayed from light weight should have made F-16 Strike Falcon multirole aircraft and kept an F-16 dedicated to air-to-air dog fighter...
"should have made F-16 Strike Falcon multirole aircraft" That was the F-16XL, which the F-15E beat out to detemine a tactical strike aircraft for the USAF. "kept an F-16 dedicated to air-to-air dog fighter" The F-16 can be launched clean, or with centerline tank with 2 x AIM-9X and 2 x AIM-120C/D and it will be able to knife fight with pretyy much any other aircraft currently flying.
Flew the F16 for years, I have flown ACM against the F15E but never flew the Mudhen. No comparison in the visual arena. The Viper easily out maneuvered the F15E. Their big radar, extra gas, and ability to carry missiles made it a great weapons platform however for some limited BVR. But single seat fighters are where it's at and I would take the Viper any day.
I would guess for sheer blast off ability of the 15 is better and the 16 for being the more agile. I would have a tough time getting used to the side stick though. It's odd that after all this time, they haven't modified the seat situation in the F-15.
Which fighter is the most comfortable for long missions and which seat is the most comfy? I was surprised to hear that most are extraordinarily uncomfortable. I’d think they’d be willing to spare a few pounds making the seat as ergonomic and unnoticeable as possible. It just makes sense to me that you wouldn’t want the pilot to build up pain and discomfort during missions. I guess all military vehicles are like that, but I figured that fighter pilots would get more consideration or have enough sway to get a little comfort. I can’t be proud of our efforts with the chair force if we’re not giving them the most comfortable chairs money can buy.
Anyways, it’s a lot easier to argue that comfort can effect safety with a pilot compared to a tank driver. You’d think they could create a safe and ergonomic cockpit.
In the air to ground role, the f16 can pack a punch and has precise accuracy. Also, thank you Neo for your service 🇺🇸. In close quarters dog fighting, wouldn’t the f15 have an advantage in a climb? I’ve heard stories of Desert Storm veterans putting 12 gs on the f15…it sounds they stayed capable to operate the aircraft on adrenaline. Thanks again and I look forward to the next one 👍
The one thing that has not been mentioned is the respective BVR performance of the two aircraft. One layman like me can only guess that the F-15E can outmatch the F-16C/block-52+ in thiis task. The reasons of that guess are the more powerful radar of the F-15, the better rate of climb as a twin-engined aircraft and the better responsiveness at higher altitudes due to the lower wing load. Yet for this task the F-15C should be prefered whenever available.
Great video. Really interesting. I am in UK near Lakenheath where the fly some of the F15-Es from. Know a couple of guys who flew them. I did always wonder, but never asked them, can the Wizzo in the F15-E fly the plane in an emergency?
Not just in an emergency. It's not uncommon for the WSO to fly when there is down time or certain types of sorties. A more proficient aircrew is never a bad thing.
The extremely high top airspeed of the F15 has got to count for a lot … extending the range of missiles, ability to escape bad odds situations, starting with more energy. Also the low wing loading has got to improve the maneuverability at high altitude thin air plus increase the max ceiling. The electronics on the F15 is more impressive including the radar. We should have bought more F15s and upgrades instead of over sized Low Rate Initial Production lots of the JSF in the early years when they weren’t going to be upgradeable. Next F15 redesign should recline the seat to the best angle (perhaps even more than 30 degrees). I don’t see compromising performance for stealth as a good option for the F15 (it’s got speed and good ECM to get out of trouble). The WSO upgrade should accommodate control of loyal wingman/wingmen. Shrink the canopy bow. Move the stick. It already carries heavy munitions, but there may be a use for an even bigger munition (missile, ground penetrator, etc). I have to wonder if canard fighters have an aerodynamic edge in certain flight regimes. Improve the JHMCS with a larger field of view and aircraft see through imagery/symbology.
Which is better??? They both have different roles and performance envelopes. That's like comparing a tractor and a pickup truck and asking which is better. They're for different things.
I'm a big fan of your videos. Thank you. I wonder how much more effective the F-16 would be if it had an AI in lieu of a Weapons System Officer? Thoughts?
Before I even watch this video I am posting my opinion just from the title of this video. It depends on the situation and what he Plane is being used for. The Pilot who is flying the mission plays a huge part in this as well. Now after saying that I am going to watch and see what he says. F-16 can be used for close air support, but it would not even come close to being better than an A-10 Warthog at the job. That does not mean it is a worse Airplane. It means it is not as effective at the mission it has to accomplish. So I hate trying to say why one plane is better than another plane. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Now I will say the F-16 is Sexier than the F-15 prove me wrong! Love your videos Max keep them coming man and Thank You for serving our great country and putting your life on the line for our freedom!
Honestly, it’s going to be the F-15E. Even though the F-16 has a great control response time and a lot of power with it’s large single engine, the 15E has better maneuverability and a much greater assortment of armaments at it’s disposal, even for being a multi roll fighter that leans more towards being an attacker aircraft
Worst of both worlds. Less maneuverable and worse acceleration than either platform, the cockpit visibility is horrific, and don't even get me started on the avionics. All that said, it was an excellent fighter for the time and certainly leagues better in nearly all respects than any third generation fighters, but it came early in an era of rapid advancement in fighter aircraft, so it was unfortunately doomed to be outshone by the following 4th generation aircraft.
@@Razgriz__1Didn't people say the F14 was a predictable dogfighter because you watch the wing sweep to telegraph the next move? Swing wings are also heavy, a maintenance problem and old fashioned.
@kentl7228 that depends whether pilots would take manual control of the sweep system or let the automated system handle it, I'm not familiar with what the usual practice was for dogfighting.
F-111 carried more further, faster and in the dark @200ft. Designed for the job from the start, not a modded fighter. It's only limitation was the airframe overheating when it went too fast.
Nope. Even for a stick-controlled fighter, the throttle quadrant is on the left, so "lefties" get used to flying with the right hand. You adapt and fly right-handed, or you wash out and get sent to drive the "four fan trash can" (C-130) as the throttles are center console mounted so the control yoke in the middle can be operated w/either hand in most flight regimes.
without watching the video, let me guess, both F-15 and F-16 are multirole aircraft meaning both can do air to air and air to ground combat, but the F-15A-E was designed as an air superiority fighters first, meaning it was designed to dominate the skies, it has twin engines and larger fuel tanks so it has range and the ability to carry a heavier air to air or air to ground load. Also among most variants you have a greater thrust to weigh ratio with the F-15. The conformal tanks on the F-15E are also removeable so it can switch back to the air superiority role if needed. I suspect the radar on the F-15E is also larger thus superior, but that last part is a guess.
the f15E was designed as an air interdiction platform. it was made to almost always carry bombs. the dual cockpits and conformal fuel tanks arent the only difference between it and the f15C. it is also quite a bit heavier too. extra bracing was added to carry larger payloads of bombs. so, the 15E without the conformal tanks will still not be as agile as the 15C. i doubt that too many 15E's would be set out with only air to air missiles unless its monitoring no fly zones, or something of that nature where its unlkely to face any seriously aggressive near peer jets. BVR is fine im sure because of the excellent radar, but its not the plane you necessarily want to have if you are dogfighting an su30 at close range. that would be the f16, f15C or f22s domain. i believe the EX is even heavier still, but has more powerful engines and fly by wire, which makes it look pretty wicked compared to earlier f15s
@@MaxAfterburnerusa they are pretty much the ultimate before being compromised for stealth. 30 years of design evolution makes the obvious difference.
As a former crew chief on both aircraft, the F-16 is MUCH easier to work on. The F-15E will always have a special place in my heart, but that f-16 made life much easier when it came to hydraulics or flight control rigging etc… I’m a pilot these days, but I sure miss wrenching on those damn things.
You are fighter pilot ???
Lucky man
Can we all just take a moment to admire that majestic stash!
Couldn't agree more!
" with great mustache comes great responsibility" -P Griffin
Gheeyyyyyy! 😂
@@MaxAfterburnerusaWhat I'm curious about is how the Viper maneuvers in DCS. Its nose just doesn't move around as quick as the 15C or 15E. Is this how it is in real life?
There should be a law that only combat-qualified fighter pilots be allowed to have a mustache.
Excellent video… Really puts a non-flyer like me in the cockpit. I did some remodeling work, and befriended, I retired Air Force F15 pilot. I loved his stories. He bought a house on Lake Washington to view the blue Angels at Seafair every year and invited me and others down to watch with him. One of my best memories.
Thanks for sharing
Really good run-down. As a former F-16 guy myself, with experience fighting against F-15s in training, aircraft size was also a huge plus for the Viper, especially in multi vs multi WVR engagements. Eagle pilots/crews would very often lose sight of us, while tracking F-15s visually was not a big problem (in fact, I was more worried about losing sight of my own wingmen - something that IRL led to a real tragic accident when I was flying at Hahn, Germany, although I was not involved myself). Anyway, the only other thing I will add is that the F-16E and F-16 Blk70/72 do remedy , to a large extent, your (valid) comments about displays. But then again, the F-15EX improves in that area as well.
How about BVR? Does really the F-15 has that much of an advantage in BVR when we talking speed, altitude and its radar size vs. knowing how big its RCS is vs. smaller much lower RCS Viper?
@@spookyNorbert Depends a lot on the specific radar type installed on the aircraft. You are correct about the (rather massive) difference in RCS, but any one of those (F-15 or F-16) equipped with an AESA will have a significant advantage in BVR combat when pitted against a conventional radar. All USAF F-15s have AESAs, but only a small percentage of F-16s do (although that will keep increasing in the next few years). So hard to come up with a generic answer to your (good ) question.
You're dead right, KRG. But, to take it even further, the F-15 being twice the size means it is twice the cost, and the same budget only buys and operates half as many F-15's as F-16's. A force of twice as many F-16's is a much more capable force.
@@MaxPalmer-1 Agree on general principle, but the calculations are a bit more complex than that. Like base infrastructure might be a bit cheaper for F-16s but not nearly half. Also you will lose a few more single-engine jets in peacetime. And the F-15 does not cost twice as much as an F-16, more like 30 to 40% more (depends a lot on the exact variant). Still, great point.
@@KRGruner Col John Boyd was pretty much right in the biography where he said "You buy planes by the pound, just like potatoes." Checking current costing, I see $63M for F-16 block 70/72, and $117mil for volume deliveries of the F-15EX. The first 8 plane order of F-15EX was $150M each. The Air Force reported in 2013 that F-16C operating cost was $22.5k/hour, and F-15C operating cost was $41.9k/hour. The last time the Air Force allowed a volume trial of F-15 vs F-16 (1992), the two Air National Guard F-16 squadrons defeated all five regular Air Force F-15 squadrons. The F-16 is the more effective fighter, and it is not much more than half the cost.
I remember reading Boyd's book. He wanted more wing area on the F-16. One of his acolytes betrayed him. Can only imagine what corning in that thin would have been like if he got it the way he wanted it. He got most of what he wanted though.
F-22: "Would you intercept me?" 🥺
"I'd intercept me" 😩
YF-23 sugar!
All of a sudden range is an issue over the Pacific lol.
F-16 for me! Always liked small nimble vehicles over large more powerful ones.
And that frameless canopy's visibility is priceless!
I think I would rather fly the F-16 as well. The ergonomics. The only thing is that I would want a center stick.
@@ShadesOClaritythe side stick is the way to go. Flying the 16 is like you and the jet are connected.
I had a chance to fly in the back seat of a viper while attending pilot train school and crotch rocket is an understatement.
@george849 I bet when he lit the blower it was an awesome kick in the ass.
@@ShadesOClarityyeah the feeling is simply amazing! Would have been better if we could have done a max climb.
The combo is the f15ex. You get Fly-by-wire in new iron that can maximize the airframe’s performance and pilot’s situation awareness while delivering massive ordinance in the air and on the ground to any target in the world…EX gets my vote!
great video as always. cheers man. great hearing this from a guy who has flown both.
As a former F-111 guy, I think the F-15E is the natural successor to the F-4 Phantom II, more than the F-111. Like the F-15E, the F-4 could fight its way in, hit the target and fight its way home. Apart from the period when F-111Fs (at RAF Lakenheath, where I was stationed) carried AIM 9Ls, the F-111 had no ability to fight its way in or out. And we were constantly reminded of that reality. We focused on being awesome at long range interdiction and other strike missions.
Always loved the Aardvark. That plane had its baptism of fire over North Vietnam, whereas the Eagle and the Falcon didn't have to do that.
Very true,@@JamesinAZ. In fact, our Ops CO at Lakenheath had been shot down in his F-111 late in the Vietnam war. Luckily, he was only a PoW for six months (before the PoWs were released).
@matthewnewnham-runner-writer The POWs suffered under horrendous conditions. If I remember correctly, during Rolling Thunder(which was before the 'Vark went operational) many of the losses occured over Route Pack 6, over North Vietnam. Its just incredible to see how the F-111 really came out of testing, and immediately went combat operational. I feel that plane has proven itself extremely reliable and effective in its role. It's been awhile since I've read up, but is it true the role of the plane was to do deep penetration missions in Eastern Europe?
You're right on both counts,@@JamesinAZ (about Route Pack 6) and the original role of the F-111.
This was a great informative video for us geeks that like this sort of thing :) Thanks.
Great content! As a layman and non-pilot, the F-15's evolution from the definition of Air Superiority Fighter into a powerful ground attack platform (F-15E) is stunning!
Thanks for making things on point, understandable, and with passion. Aim High Air Force! 56th Supply Squadron at Luke AFB 93'! Daddy, you didn't get your attorney or MD but createda angry kid lol! Like my friend at March Field Air Museum, a career as a truck driver at 50. He -- Karl Hall-- fell of the wing of a Super Saber in Laken Heath in England and was removed from flight status. He was a F-111 test squadron pilot before. Both of us regret leaving the Air Force. He one day said, "Francisco, there are many pilots in the USAF but how many do you know have an Emmy lol." He was a technical consultant in X Games and He was recognized. I got my Emmy too but working in a cancer hospital for 10 years. God bless.
I'm a Green Beret and I love these videos bro! Such a completely different world y'all experience but very cool and interesting nonetheless. Still prefer HALO jumping to pulling Gs but that's just me haha!
I enjoyed your video. I flew the A-37B back in the day. It was pretty good at close air support and fun to fly but, holy cow, it wasn't even in the same universe as these machines. It was somewhere between low tech and no tech. I'm just amazed at these modern fighters.
Many years ago (around 1983 or 1984) I was the Weapons Crew Chief at the Arm end EOR crew at Nellis (57th FWW) and we had a four-ship that was in chocks and getting armed. This was back when the Block 10 F-16A was the Sierra Hotel jet that all of the fighter jocks wanted to drive, for all you GD/LM history buffs. We were on the second or third jet, and I'm on the headset with the pilot while my #2 and #3 crew members are arming him, when a two-ship of OA-37s roll up next to us. Seeing those whip-style antennae on that aircraft, the pilot of the jet we're arming says; "Hey, look at the radio-controlled planes that just parked!" I just thought that was one of the funniest dead-pan lines that I heard any pile-it speak outside of the O-club Theater of Operations!
🤣🤣
@@johnshannon9 That's great
Love from Ireland 🇮🇪
One of your better presentations, thanks !
Great video and review! As a bystander my favourite was always the f16, not sure why. Perhaps it was watching Iron Eagle as a kid 😂
Hi 👋 Friendly forces here! We appreciate your diligence and expertise,especially when shits danger close! Love y’all Hooah!
Love the stash reminds me of Colonel Robin Olds ❤
that's who he patterned it after
Every real pilot has a stash. 🥸
@@140theguy couldn't agree more
@@140theguy CrewChiefs too
@@daveconder-gp4hy and anybody man wearing a cowboy hat. 🤠 Take this emoji for example, it would look way better with a stash. 👍
1st hand experience on F15 vs F16
clicked so hard my keyboard broke
A good pilot is a magic association with any craft, and a good wiso is the icing on the cake. You said it, they are a critical team, each dependent on the other. The extra engine in the F-15 adds that little bit of charm for over unity thrust.
Can we talk from a Crew Chief maintainer perspective? I've worked every block F-16A/b/c/d Block 25-50. F-15C's at Kadena & Langley.
F-16 was designed to be a point defense day VFR fighter, and the Air Force turned it into a medium range interdiction bomber. Both have thrust to weight ratios of better than 1 to 1. I know Eagle drivers who called Viper pilots the Security Police Augmentation Force.
Originally, the Viper was designed with a pressure-only, non-moving sidestick. We think and react according to motion, though, which is why the Viper has a stick that moves about an inch.
I flew the F-4 then the F-111 before I flew the F-15E as a WSO/EWO. I saw the E as being what the 4 always wanted to be. Yes, the E did long range strike like the Vark as well. One thing I learned as a WSO flying BFM in the F-4 was that my thighs were a natural deterrent for the pilot putting it our of control. As the G came on my thighs came together keeping lateral input of the stick. I used that technique in the E as well.
Excellent video! One of your best. Thanks!
I asked Hoover in an email which aircraft he liked the most. He flew both the Strike Eagle and on the Marine Corps exchange program the F/A-18. He said he enjoyed flying both but called the F-15E, "An absolute war machine." I see your B-Roll has Strike Eagles from Seymour Johnson. Were you ever stationed there? I live around MCAS Cherry Point. Hoover said in one of his accident videos about a restricted airspace he used to go to R-5306A for training. You ever been out there?
Heyyy, I used to be stationed at MCAS Cherry Point - in a MAG-32 Harrier Support Sqdn. I love all of these planes but my 1st crush is the AV8-B Harrier - the Marine Aviators who fly them are intellectual beasts of courage, IMHO, because it takes so much time and training just to keep it from flipping over and crashing hard - with the cockpit slamming into the ground and the wheels and nozzles facing up. In fact, they still fly them at Cherry Point - that is, until they receive their F-35s. PS: How's Havelock now? Back in the 80s and 90s it was a very small town with very limited options for shopping and/or entertainments - you needed a car to either go to Atlantic Beach, Beaufort, Newbern, Kinston, and Greenville or surrounding areas....
The only things that matter these days are the radar diameter and power. the number of missiles you can carry and the range of those missiles (think Meteor or R-37). Being nimble just helps you survive sometimes.
F-16 seems like it would be a lot more fun to fly. That compact, simpler instrument panel, the G tolerances, the unobstructed bubble canopy and better field of vision, and the side stick just make it look like a more enjoyable plane to fly.
That's what I was thinking. Although if you didn't know what you were walking into that F15 with more cannon ammo , couple of extra missiles, and that longer range radar might be more comforting. Especially if SU27's and Mig29's are likely to be the enemy.
Such a great and comprehensive comparison. Thanks for sharing your experience while going though the topic. Amazing birds, just like F/A-18, A-10 and of course F-22.
The requirement for the F-15 was born out of the very hard lessons of Vietnam, not just from the "fighter mafia" wanting an air dominance platform. The F-15 that we got was born out of buying into the propaganda of the Mig-25 and it's rumored abilities, and what we got out of that fear is the most dominant Air dominance platform to date since we all know that the Mig-25 wasn't anything close to what we were lead to believe.
The F15 is the prime example of our nations drive for overmatch. It's not enough to be equal. And I'm in awe of that.
@@kyledabearsfan
Ya? What’s our birthrate?
And where is my hoverboard?
“not just from the "fighter mafia""
Not from the "Fighter Mafia" at all. They were against the F-15 and thought it was a waste of money and overly complex. The "Fighter Mafia" wanted the F-16.
I built E, I n’ S models. Fun fact: the main bulkheads on many of these are milled from a soild titanium block that was once part of a Russian submarine.
Two is better than one...
Plus a greater radar and avionics system.
F-15E is the BOSS!
"Two is better than one"
Well you can get 2 F-16 for the price of 1 F-15E so you have just contradicted yourself😂😂😂
The F16 is widely exported in large numbers and its much lower price compared to a F15 was a serious thing
I played a lot of Warbirds for several years. Yeah, that nice canopy on the P-51 was much better than, say, the F4U4 or the Messerschmidt 109.
Fascinating conversation with multiple perspectives!
The fighter mafia, I thought had developed the F-16, essentially as a low cost, low weight air superiority fighter, and as it is still critical for the air force, I believe it met its obligations and then some. This takes nothing away from the F-15, of course, which is a whole other ball of wax. The concept of adding conformal fuel tanks has brilliantly extended the fighting range of both aircraft.
I think of the planes as being in the roles of the P-47 and the P-51.
I guess there is a new F-15EX Eagle II. Have you done a video on this just yet? (How funny! I just saw you did a video 7 days ago!)
Great video… I really enjoyed it! Semper Fi to my fellow Marines out there! 😎and much love to all my fellow Veterans… ☝️
My answer to the question “which is better,” is
‘For what?’
The F16 block 70 looks sexy.
If I'm correct it has a better radar, which was on of it's disadvantages.
The things that still need to improve in the F16 is the landing gear and the brakes so that it can be operated from regular roads.
Planes like the Gripen and the Eurofighter have the advantage in this area.
Would landimg gear be enough or is its debris problem still fatal? As that can't he easily fixed without a brand new plane. I understood that giant gulper up front was the biggest issue with roads. Happy to be corrected, this is a question not me telling how it is.
Great informative video, thanks.
Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding about ourselves.
The F15 is bad ass and the F16 is such a beautiful and graceful looking aircraft
Would be so cool to see guest on the podcast such as lover and gonky ward Carroll hlc and wombat even mace would be cool considering you both flew air shows
TY for the video! I'm voting for a name change to MAXterburner! :) Keep up the awesome work! I love watching your videos!
F15-EX Eagle II is a game changer.
Great video - cheers
So, the reaction to Vietnam; The Falcon. The reaction to Russia's Foxbat; The Eagle. Great reaction skills!
My Uncle-in-Law was stationed at Edwards Airforce Base. He was a Lt. Cornell when he retired. He was an F-16 pilot, F-16 instructor, and test pilot. He had input on the avionics in the cockpit of the (at the time) X-35. Great guy. He now flies for South West out of DFW. He wanted to get the F-15 originally but was assigned to the F-16.
Lt Cornell? I think you mean Colonel 💁♂️
The word at the time was that the military was interested in a dual-engine aircraft that had longer range and better armament. There were other advantages as you have presented.
Dude, you should do a video about the legless brit that flew in WW2 , was a good fighter.
F-14 Tomcat, two man ship, I got a toy model in the late 70s, the swing wings, AIM-54 Phoenix, it was as you say awesome. The F-16A was a light weight killer, later versions strayed from light weight should have made F-16 Strike Falcon multirole aircraft and kept an F-16 dedicated to air-to-air dog fighter...
"should have made F-16 Strike Falcon multirole aircraft" That was the F-16XL, which the F-15E beat out to detemine a tactical strike aircraft for the USAF.
"kept an F-16 dedicated to air-to-air dog fighter" The F-16 can be launched clean, or with centerline tank with 2 x AIM-9X and 2 x AIM-120C/D and it will be able to knife fight with pretyy much any other aircraft currently flying.
Flew the F16 for years, I have flown ACM against the F15E but never flew the Mudhen. No comparison in the visual arena. The Viper easily out maneuvered the F15E. Their big radar, extra gas, and ability to carry missiles made it a great weapons platform however for some limited BVR. But single seat fighters are where it's at and I would take the Viper any day.
I would guess for sheer blast off ability of the 15 is better and the 16 for being the more agile. I would have a tough time getting used to the side stick though. It's odd that after all this time, they haven't modified the seat situation in the F-15.
Great insight! So when are you going to take the F-4 into combat in DCS? Those J-79s really got some uumph behind them to go vertical lol.
Maybe next generation F-15F? Side stick, fly-by-wire and bubble canopy.
Which fighter is the most comfortable for long missions and which seat is the most comfy? I was surprised to hear that most are extraordinarily uncomfortable. I’d think they’d be willing to spare a few pounds making the seat as ergonomic and unnoticeable as possible. It just makes sense to me that you wouldn’t want the pilot to build up pain and discomfort during missions. I guess all military vehicles are like that, but I figured that fighter pilots would get more consideration or have enough sway to get a little comfort. I can’t be proud of our efforts with the chair force if we’re not giving them the most comfortable chairs money can buy.
Anyways, it’s a lot easier to argue that comfort can effect safety with a pilot compared to a tank driver. You’d think they could create a safe and ergonomic cockpit.
In the air to ground role, the f16 can pack a punch and has precise accuracy. Also, thank you Neo for your service 🇺🇸. In close quarters dog fighting, wouldn’t the f15 have an advantage in a climb? I’ve heard stories of Desert Storm veterans putting 12 gs on the f15…it sounds they stayed capable to operate the aircraft on adrenaline. Thanks again and I look forward to the next one 👍
Max, that jet was built, and by Lockheed Martin, the F22 Raptor its is literally the best of both worlds
How do they compare to the F22?
That is really cool stuff to hear as a layperson.
Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error.
The one thing that has not been mentioned is the respective BVR performance of the two aircraft. One layman like me can only guess that the F-15E can outmatch the F-16C/block-52+ in thiis task. The reasons of that guess are the more powerful radar of the F-15, the better rate of climb as a twin-engined aircraft and the better responsiveness at higher altitudes due to the lower wing load. Yet for this task the F-15C should be prefered whenever available.
You have done a review of the F-15EX, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the new block 70/72 Viper.
Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart.
Why doesn’t the military use the side stick and recline seat in other fighters?
1:34 that’d be handy on the freeway during the commute. How do you get a taxi driver like that?
The F-15QA might be the thing you're looking for. 2 F16 Engines, almost glass cockpit. Lower profile.
The 15E has an incredible radar and weapon loadout. The F-16C has a descent radar and loadout and can dogfight and maneuver better.
Great video. Really interesting. I am in UK near Lakenheath where the fly some of the F15-Es from. Know a couple of guys who flew them. I did always wonder, but never asked them, can the Wizzo in the F15-E fly the plane in an emergency?
Not just in an emergency. It's not uncommon for the WSO to fly when there is down time or certain types of sorties. A more proficient aircrew is never a bad thing.
@@austingarcia2480 Thanks, Interesting to know this. Makes sense I guess.
The really unhappy person is the one who leaves undone what they can do, and starts doing what they don't understand; no wonder they come to grief.
Doesn't the F-22 combine those aspects of the Viper and the Strike Eagle you mentioned in the video?
The extremely high top airspeed of the F15 has got to count for a lot … extending the range of missiles, ability to escape bad odds situations, starting with more energy. Also the low wing loading has got to improve the maneuverability at high altitude thin air plus increase the max ceiling. The electronics on the F15 is more impressive including the radar. We should have bought more F15s and upgrades instead of over sized Low Rate Initial Production lots of the JSF in the early years when they weren’t going to be upgradeable.
Next F15 redesign should recline the seat to the best angle (perhaps even more than 30 degrees). I don’t see compromising performance for stealth as a good option for the F15 (it’s got speed and good ECM to get out of trouble). The WSO upgrade should accommodate control of loyal wingman/wingmen. Shrink the canopy bow. Move the stick. It already carries heavy munitions, but there may be a use for an even bigger munition (missile, ground penetrator, etc).
I have to wonder if canard fighters have an aerodynamic edge in certain flight regimes.
Improve the JHMCS with a larger field of view and aircraft see through imagery/symbology.
Have you ever flown the A-10 and get to blast that big gun up front?
Which is better??? They both have different roles and performance envelopes. That's like comparing a tractor and a pickup truck and asking which is better. They're for different things.
Max ….You’re the Best !!!
Oh Lockheed is watching... and plotting lol
Unfortunately, they’re plotting more and more expensive programs. I doubt we’ll ever get a program as sensible as the F-16 again.
@@rowdyh7318 The F-35 program is going pretty strong
Cadillac vs. Ferrari - tag-team against everybody!
A lot of GA piston engine aircraft have side-sticks now. I can't get used to them. They don't feel natural.
I'm a big fan of your videos. Thank you. I wonder how much more effective the F-16 would be if it had an AI in lieu of a Weapons System Officer? Thoughts?
Before I even watch this video I am posting my opinion just from the title of this video. It depends on the situation and what he Plane is being used for. The Pilot who is flying the mission plays a huge part in this as well. Now after saying that I am going to watch and see what he says. F-16 can be used for close air support, but it would not even come close to being better than an A-10 Warthog at the job. That does not mean it is a worse Airplane. It means it is not as effective at the mission it has to accomplish. So I hate trying to say why one plane is better than another plane. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Now I will say the F-16 is Sexier than the F-15 prove me wrong! Love your videos Max keep them coming man and Thank You for serving our great country and putting your life on the line for our freedom!
The Eagle always spanks the lawn dart.
Not in a telephone booth
@@Shadowboost It blows up the booth.
Honestly, it’s going to be the F-15E. Even though the F-16 has a great control response time and a lot of power with it’s large single engine, the 15E has better maneuverability and a much greater assortment of armaments at it’s disposal, even for being a multi roll fighter that leans more towards being an attacker aircraft
I would like to hear comparisons between an F-15 and an SU-27.
Max AB, you think we'll ever see a fighter/bomber/strike fighter with side by side seating like the Aardvark or SU34?
Max, if all of your former aircrews watch these vids, people are gonna wonder who the 2% were (5:11)???😁
They know who they are 😂
@@MaxAfterburnerusaHow are the 2% not so great ones able to get in? Are they politically connected?
if you combine both ... you have the french RAFALE ;-)
how much of your wish list does the F-22 fill?
A suit of armor provides excellent sun protection on hot days.
drummer already did build the best of both worlds. it's called the tomcat.
Worst of both worlds. Less maneuverable and worse acceleration than either platform, the cockpit visibility is horrific, and don't even get me started on the avionics.
All that said, it was an excellent fighter for the time and certainly leagues better in nearly all respects than any third generation fighters, but it came early in an era of rapid advancement in fighter aircraft, so it was unfortunately doomed to be outshone by the following 4th generation aircraft.
@@Razgriz__1Didn't people say the F14 was a predictable dogfighter because you watch the wing sweep to telegraph the next move? Swing wings are also heavy, a maintenance problem and old fashioned.
@@kentl7228 the "heavy maintance" bullshit is a rumor that's been disproven since time started counting
@kentl7228 that depends whether pilots would take manual control of the sweep system or let the automated system handle it, I'm not familiar with what the usual practice was for dogfighting.
@@Razgriz__1 Wouldn't mater if they did or not. It's better to leave it in auto anyway.
F-111 carried more further, faster and in the dark @200ft. Designed for the job from the start, not a modded fighter. It's only limitation was the airframe overheating when it went too fast.
Can you make a full video of what a WIZO does? Better still can you get a WIZO on your show to tell us in-depth what they do?
So glad y'all aren't taking drones out at higher machs to pop cockpits before they can ding ding~ But....
So if your a lefty, do they change the position of the side stick? 🤔
Nope. Even for a stick-controlled fighter, the throttle quadrant is on the left, so "lefties" get used to flying with the right hand. You adapt and fly right-handed, or you wash out and get sent to drive the "four fan trash can" (C-130) as the throttles are center console mounted so the control yoke in the middle can be operated w/either hand in most flight regimes.
without watching the video, let me guess, both F-15 and F-16 are multirole aircraft meaning both can do air to air and air to ground combat, but the F-15A-E was designed as an air superiority fighters first, meaning it was designed to dominate the skies, it has twin engines and larger fuel tanks so it has range and the ability to carry a heavier air to air or air to ground load. Also among most variants you have a greater thrust to weigh ratio with the F-15. The conformal tanks on the F-15E are also removeable so it can switch back to the air superiority role if needed. I suspect the radar on the F-15E is also larger thus superior, but that last part is a guess.
the f15E was designed as an air interdiction platform. it was made to almost always carry bombs. the dual cockpits and conformal fuel tanks arent the only difference between it and the f15C. it is also quite a bit heavier too. extra bracing was added to carry larger payloads of bombs. so, the 15E without the conformal tanks will still not be as agile as the 15C. i doubt that too many 15E's would be set out with only air to air missiles unless its monitoring no fly zones, or something of that nature where its unlkely to face any seriously aggressive near peer jets. BVR is fine im sure because of the excellent radar, but its not the plane you necessarily want to have if you are dogfighting an su30 at close range. that would be the f16, f15C or f22s domain. i believe the EX is even heavier still, but has more powerful engines and fly by wire, which makes it look pretty wicked compared to earlier f15s
The dreamfighter airplane combining F15 and F16 is actually real in the Eurofighter/Rafale
Let’s not get carried away 😉
@@MaxAfterburnerusa they are pretty much the ultimate before being compromised for stealth.
30 years of design evolution makes the obvious difference.
Wonder what kind of het you would have if you took the cockpit / canopy of a F16 and gave it to the f15c ..
Funny you complete the vid with the same thoughts i was getting to, so I guess i was getting your point.. nice
The second category - 2-man crew, why have you not compared the 15E to a 16D ?
Doesn't the EX have some of those modifications? Sadly, not the side stick.
How about BVR?
Best of both worlds (by combining the two)? They actually did. Only it's not American - it's Russian. We call it the Flanker. They call it the Su-27.