Yeah they did. I am assuming that they went through ATCSCC to get Piper. I don't know that we have directs to Piper at our TRACON. Sidenote map isn't to scale. They have him in Jackson, Meridian then Vicksburg almost. Like ZHU airspace.
Yup, that’s what a good pilot does, man…passengers, people on the ground, crew, you…that’s the hierarchy. It sounds grim but it is what it is. There’s really no FAR in part 91 about that aside from “operating without undue hazard to people on the ground” and the distances you have to maintain from structures, populated areas, etc. It just seems to be how things operate out in the wild.
That pillows thinking about everyone in the world ( on the ground) but himself he had in his mind he was going to crash and that was that. Idk who he was or the ATC my hats off to both of you for working together and working the problem not letting the problem work you.
A couple maybe a couple of Kegs !! They need to send those 2 ATC controllers to OKC to teach new controllers, I live 30 miles to Will Roger’s, I would love to meet them 😎
Whatever happened to cause the issues and subsequent dramas (no emergency manual etc.) they all did a fantastic job of getting this pilot home safe. Well done to all involved - ATC, the Pilot, Piper and the emergency crews (who were fortunately not needed, but great to know they were on the scene just in case). It's this level of communication that blocks ALL the holes in the Swiss cheese from lining up successfully. Great channel by the way - I really like the fact that you don't narrate the obvious, and have some nice visuals that align with the audio. Good work, thanks and I hope your channel takes off!
If that controller doesn't get an award of some kind, something's wrong. He literally kept that man alive. Through exhaustion, exasperation and confusion (well justified), he sounded resigned to die, but that controller coached him. The pilot sounded exceptionally competent, but he was out of ideas.
Never knew about this incident and i worked at the greenville ms airport for 10 years (greenwood is right next door). Your flight map illustration threw me off a little bit because you have the airport posted at the top of ms when its really central kinda west side. Glad he got it on the ground safe tho!
I was confused as hell by the map at first too, but I’m pretty sure the lines are not state lines, rather roads or counties or something. I can’t imagine he flew halfway across the state during that time lmao
Wondering how he lost the emergency handbook? But what a wonderful job by all involved. The poise the pilot maintained and the team effort the ATC and everyone else gave him. A pleasure to listen too.
It shouldn't have been lost. It's in the POH/AFM. It's a required document every time you fly and it's the pilots responsibility to make sure it's there and accessible at all times.
He mentioned he's by himself, so I'm not sure who he could have been yelling at. Could be he removed it and he was yelling at himself, but it also kind of sounded like it got sucked out of the plane by the wind, somehow? Not sure how that would happen but it's somewhat plausible...
I Googled the tail #, N113RC, and this same aircraft had another emergency event just a year and a half earlier. Night time VFR flight, three passengers. One engine out while climbing through 6500'. Emergency declared. Pilot requested assistance but had to reject first choice of airport after pilot couldn't get the runway lights to turn on. Landed safely at alternate airport (Greenville, Mississippi) shortly after. Kind of odd coincidence.
@@devinthierault Hopefully he thought of that. But if it's had problems before, and has them now. And something ain't working obviously. I SURE WOULDN'T STAND THEIR,.. WAITING TO BE THROWN STRIKE 3 😂 Busses are cool, get back to me when it's fixed. Kinda sounds like a ground fault somewhere. Or a ground fault caused by corrosion or bad connections same. Those F with Everything !!! So I'd look for that in the diagnosis. But I'm not guessing. I'd be finding and confirming. And letting my buddy take the test flight 🤣🤣🤣😉 ... it's ok, he's single
@@My-Pal-Hal it was in 2017 but it seemed like he pulled breakers but somehow panicked and over did things and either actually kept re-engaging the autopilot over and over again thinking he was fighting against it or something really did jam and he still panicked and killed the wrong nreakers. I looked at the autopilot he used it's a Collins one with a few rocker switches. Either way the investigation revealed damage to the flight control surfaces from fighting against the autopilot probably. I saw an ad to sell it, seems fine now but still. Screw that lol
That was intense, had a gear down failure in my VodoChody L39 , keeping a clear head is the key . I freaking panicked for a minute and was about to eject . Thankfully that was the only issue and had plenty of time to go over the checklist , reset and gear down .
I'm trying to wrap my head around how this could have happened. I'm a pilot and also work as a maintainer. One of the checks you're supposed to do prior to takeoff is set the A/P to heading mode and twist the bug one way or the other and make sure that you're able to physically overpower the A/P, as well as disconnect it with the A/P disconnect button or electric trim inputs. Also can't imagine how the A/P could have continued operating with either the avionics master or the master switch turned off. Where would the servos have been getting power from and what would have been sending them commands? I wonder if he tried pulling the circuit breakers for the A/P or the individual servos. Be interested to see what the findings were.
That’s a really insightful perspective, especially coming from someone with both pilot and maintainer experience. The situation definitely raises questions about how the A/P continued to operate and why standard procedures to disconnect it may not have worked. Pulling the circuit breakers for the A/P or servos seems like a logical step if other methods failed-I’m curious if that was attempted too. It will be interesting to see the investigation findings and what contributed to this anomaly. Situations like these highlight just how important redundancy and emergency training are!
@@Flight_Follower As luck would have it, my shop currently has a PA31T2 Cheyenne in for an Event 1 inspection (Piper structures their routine inspections as Event 1 and 2). The incident aircraft may have had different avionics entirely but I'm curious now to run this past a couple of my coworkers including our avionics department. I'll report back if anyone has any plausible theories 'cause I'm sure coming up empty.
Update: After talking about this scenario with the chief inspector at my shop he was equally baffled. All A/P servos have a clutch that allows you to override it with manual control inputs. His best educated guess would be a power surge that damaged all the A/P servos as well as causing the landing gear issue. But even that seems unlikely. Unfortunately it seems like we may never know for sure.
POH book- "No, you took it outta here, it's out of the airplane......". That statement led me to believe someone else was in the airplane with him, but he stated he was alone
He was on the phone, but I agree -- it did sound like he could have been talking to someone next to him. It took me a second to remember he was by himself, but if you didn't know that, I can understand thinking someone else was there.
I had a similar situation that turned out to be all my fault, but it sure seemed like the airplane was jamming the controls at the time. I was in a Cessna Cutlass RG, IFR in the soup, inbound for the ILS, descending 500pfm. At the IAP the chart called for a turn of about 30° to the final approach course. When I hit the IAP, I discovered that the yoke was jammed. I was still in a 500 fpm descent and flew through the localizer and would need to make a fairly significant correction. The first moment of panic started when I tried to overpowering the frozen yoke and couldn’t. I quickly realized I had forgotten to disengage the auto pilot, which in this aircraft wasn’t slaved for coupled approaches. I pushed the auto pilot off button, but the yoke remained jammed. I tried to arrest my descent, but found the elevator also jammed, which caused me to seriously panic. I was still in the soup with about 1000 feet to the MDA. I tried to call the controller to declare a missed, but the radio gave me no side tone, and I noticed that I wasn’t hearing any radio transmissions anymore. I immediately suspected I was having a total electrical failure. I did finally managed to overpower the elevator and leveled off. I forced myself to get the POH out and systematically troubleshoot the problem. The first step, of course, is “auto pilot off“ and I looked up to see that it was still on! I had turned off the intercom instead in my haste. Once I really turned the auto pilot off, I regained full control of the aircraft and was able to contact approach and declare a missed. By now, I was far off course and they were quite puzzled, but I just told them “I had an auto pilot problem“. After landing, I filed an ASR, I spent a lot of time rereading the systems on this aircraft..
Wow, what a harrowing experience! It’s impressive that you managed to keep your composure enough to systematically troubleshoot the problem despite the panic of being in IMC with what felt like a cascade of failures. It really highlights how critical it is to stay methodical in emergencies and truly know your systems inside and out. Mistaking the intercom switch for the autopilot in the heat of the moment is such a relatable error-those high-stress moments can make even simple tasks challenging. Kudos to you for getting through it safely and for taking the time to file the ASR and study the system afterward. Experiences like yours are a great reminder for all of us to double-check and stay sharp, especially with avionics!
Every aircraft required by FAA regulation to have ARROW and confirmed by crew. A= Air Worthiness certificate R= Registration certificate R = Radio station license if international travel O = OPERATING LIMITATIONS which would in the pilot operating manual NOT ON THE PLANE he says. W = Weight and balance data.
Upvote Pls For the Deaf: End transmission caption error - pilot says "I owe you one!" in great relief. (Not "holy.") So he's ok! :) He had gone from a tone of morose, despondency at the start; to one of crying relief. The ATC remain cordial. Do not match his lack of discipline at the end. If I were ATC, I would have said "yeah you do!" ☺ But that's cause I listen to too much Kennedy Steve.
Absolutely ridiculous... Pull the AP and electric trim circuit breakers, problem solved. If you don't know the emergency gear extension procedure (dirt simple in that airplane) you shouldn't be flying it!
Non-aviator here: The teamwork and understanding here are wonderful. FWIW I read the pilot's salty language as: he wasn't wasting mental energy keeping himself above an etiquette threshold. If that's his normal mode when he's stressed then this definitely wasn't the time to work on fundamental personality changes. He stayed in control and welcomed all available assistance. And he was not antagonistic. My one question would be: would he have decreased his overall risk even more by landing at a major airport? When he said he didn't want to get into a "metropolitan area" I wondered if that was due in part to intimidation about imposing on the systems there. If so, that strikes me as unfortunate. As always, TIA for any helpful replies.
He was either worried about causing a mass casualty event in case he crashed, or he was concerned about collision avoidance and task saturation, given the traffic at a metro airport and his difficulty controlling the aircraft. Or a combination of both, perhaps.
@@execattyRespectfully, I think you're making too much of my arbitrary choice of the word etiquette, I suspect because you have a point you want to make publicly. And in fact I was deprecating the value of "etiquette" in this context, which might become apparent if you reread my comment. Separately, thanks to those who helped me understand the decision-making factors involved in entering "metropolitan area" airspace.
@12345YJ respectfully I wasn't meaning to comment to your choice of the word etiquette but etiquette in general.. My bad.. I just meant that if I'm in that guys situation I'd try To be as calm as him but the expletives are more than warranted as it seems to be calming him down and getting out that frustration.. He probably thought he was dead and couldn't care less about his choice of words.. Nor would i.. That being said it was amazing all around.. My mistake if it seemed directed at you.. Peace ✈️
Pilot reminds me of the type of guy at work when one thing goes wrong he just loses it completely and it helps nothing. I realize multiple things happened but you still gotta keep a level head. It’s never a disaster if you can maintain altitude. Work the problem
If pulling the breaker for the autopilot doesn't get the autopilot to disengage those models of autopilot should be grounded. I can see where for emergencies it's good to have the thing still function but not taking it offline when wanted offline is all wrong.
Its not the first time this has happened either, their testpilots obviously had experience with it if thats who they try to contact first instead of their avionics engineers lol
@@lemonator8813 Suddenly properly trimming and keeping a good scan going seems like a good idea for guys spoiled by autopilots. Not a good thing when control is going bad and forcing the controls might end the ability to have any control. That's a wrong answer that shouldn't arise.
According to initial statements from the pilot, while en route at 6,000 feet the landing gear horn sounded and the pilot was unable to silence the horn. The pilot elected to return to GWO for a precautionary landing, at which time the autopilot engaged. The pilot spent several hours trying to disengage the autopilot including conversations with pilots on the ground and a pilot from Piper Aircraft. Eventually the pilot was able to redirect the airplane to GWO with variable thrust from the engines and he landed the airplane without further incident. The airplane has been retained for an investigation.
Gust lock? Tool left in the controls? He said he shut off the master, that should shut off the AP. But he must've turned it back on to talk, and that may have reactivated the AP. Be interesting to learn what the cause was. Personally, I seldom used the AP and I never used the electric trim.
He had limited knowledge of the systems of his aircaft which caused him to turn a mole hill into mountain. For whatever reason, the autopilot could not be disengaged . That is not an emergency. Autopilots are designed to easily be overpowered by the pilot in such situations. That is one of the criteria for certification of the autopilot. That's why Piper told him to use whatever power is needed to overpower the autopilot. He simply panicked and his brain shut down. Had to be told to use differential power to steer the plane, which is part of every multiengine pilots training. A problem with the autopilot will not prevent the gear from lowering. Engineers don't design airplanes so that a failure of one system causes other independent systems to malfunction. When things calmed down a little he got the gear down normally without using the alternate extension procedure. What was he doing wrong initially that caused the gear not to lower but later it lowered just fine? The NTSB initially got involved in this and held the airplane for investigation, but then dropped the investigation when nothing was found wrong with the airplane. Interviewing the pilot probably had a lot to with them dropping an investigation on what initially sounded like serious situation. Thanks to the cool heads of the controllers, they were able to keep this pilot from panicing any deeper and got him on the ground safely. Without them this guy was a breath away from going into serious panic mode.
Dang, yoke out of order? That's no yoke. (I know, bad yoke, bad yoke) That's a nightmare scenario, losing primary control surfaces. That's why I train using other means of controlling the aircraft. (not many left, though) Remember United 232? Glad the pilot got safely on the ground. And I too would love to hear a follow up on how the controls became INOP. (both NTSB and Google failed to find the final report)
This sounds like the pilot had a problem with the autopilot and got extremely irritated and made this into as big of an ordeal as he possibly could. Seems like a good amount of acting going on.
There have been accounts of pilots experiencing a overtake of controls from somtimes another "craft" this seems similar minus a "craft". or pilot error 🤔 😂 To this day a mystery?
I’m not sure where or if he does his formal training but the pilot should have better knowledge of his airplane systems than was displayed here. The cursing and other comments are indicative of the hazardous attitude of resignation. Those who are criticizing his radio work in the comments aren’t offended by it but recognize it as coming from a pilot who was not fully trained in his aircraft and knew it. ATC did a great job except the idea of suggesting a flyby when the pilot had three green lights was a bad idea with an uncontrollable airplane. There was nothing else that could have been done at that point. Once the gear has been extended manually it can’t be recycled inflight (something the pilot should know, with or without the manual), not to mention the hazards of a go around with jammed controls.
In an emergency, any brain cells spent worrying about what whiny, entitled, uneducated, crybabies think about normal, everyday language are brain cells wasted. Someone else's choice to be afraid of words is simply immaterial at that point, and using such words is indicative of literally nothing useful here. If anything, it's indicative of the pilot's ability to prioritize properly. The only point I heard resignation is when he decided the documents he needed definitely weren't in the airplane. Really though, that's called "accepting reality", and is kind of mandatory for survival at that point because it allows him to focus on things he actually has control over. The rest of the time he was constantly trying to get control of the aircraft, and relayed all the information he could, trying to get help -- the exact opposite of resignation. Despite what must have been an intense level of primal terror despite nearly colliding with a planet, he maintained a very calm, very professional* demeanor, even after being physically exhausted from manhandling the aircraft. And that ability to slow down a bit and contemplate is generally far more useful than rushing to do random things in a hectic manner just to stay busy, especially in an emergency. Sure, a pilot with more experience on the aircraft would have a better ability to troubleshoot, and he obviously failed at least one part of his pre-flight by leaving important documentation behind. It's very possible the entire thing was his fault and would have been prevented by more training on these exact systems (or just more hours flying in general). But you'll hear very similar commentary from guys with thousands of hours on an aircraft when everything is going this pear-shaped. Of course, it's very rare for this much to go wrong at once on the aircraft guys with thousands of hours tend to be flying, so you might mistake that for some kind of extra "professionalism"* when it's just better equipment and more consistent procedures. In reality, when you don't have a nice, perfect list of things to do, nobody comes up with the exact solution instantly, and synthesis of new ideas is an imperfect process, especially when your communication is punctuated by gathering empirical evidence of shit that's trying to kill you, in realtime. Notice that even the ATC, who is under FAR less stress, stuttered and paused and ummed and ahhed quite frequently. He just didn't use words your mommy told you were "bad"** so you ignored it. * Actual professionalism is about getting the job done, not refraining from offending sensitive people or winning pageantry contests. In certain cases, those are actually the same thing, but not always, or even mostly. ** The reason most*** words "are bad" is because elitist dickbags said so and made fun of other people. Yes, really. Stop being offended and they stop being "bad" words. It's literally that simple. And, in hilarious irony, avoiding "bad" words has actually become vulgar. Again, really. Because lots of common people do it, which is what "vulgar" means. *** There's a difference between "oh no! he said 'fuck'!" and "as a Christian I choose not to use the name of my deity (Yehowah/Jesus/God/etc.) in a reckless manner" or similar. In the one, people pretend the word itself is bad, though they can never articulate why. In the other, it's the usage of the word that's situationally problematic. But, while the second has some subjective merit, other people have no moral or legal duty to adjust their own behaviors to suit one person's religious (or other) beliefs, especially in a serious situation. Note, however, that it can be useful when you're the non-stressed person (like ATC here) to deliberately avoid words or phrases associated with stress, because the appearance of calm can help keep the stressed person (our pilot) from getting more stressed. It can also help defuse a tense situation, but you can't defuse the airplane out of the sky, so that's not really relevant here. What definitely doesn't help is telling people to "calm down" or similar when they're already appropriately calm for the issue at hand (which ATC correctly avoided doing). Also note there's an enormous difference between using a "bad" word instead of some "polite" word, and learning to articulate. "Oh, oh, oh, oh" is just as inarticulate as "fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck"; "the, umm, rudder" is slightly LESS articulate than "the goddamned rudder"; and filling every other word with "fuck", "shit", or "ass" is exactly as unhelpful as doing it with "like", "right", or "totally". People with no concept of reality conflate these two all the time, but there's actually zero correlation between which words you use for filler and how articulate you are (or between usage of "bad" words and overall vocabulary).
Democratic state Senator Heidi Campbell, whose 20th District covers Nashville's inner suburbs, was speaking after state legislators approved a bill Tuesday that would make it illegal for lawmakers to vote for policies perceived as opposing President Donald Trump's agenda-namely sanctuary procedure.
Good story but the editing was completely off tower. Tell the pilot turn right and the little red cartoon plane on the screen turns left tower. Tell him something like he’s doing a good job and the pilot says thank you. So he’s told to turn right,,, the red cartoon plane turn left. Lol.
Some anger control issues here (the language, the frustration, no handbook, etc.) I understand his feelings but pilots must stay in control of their emotions at all times especially in a high performance aircraft like the Cheyanne. Great job by ATC getting Piper to assist
Wow! I Hope to never need a TEST PILOT to help me fly in an airplane that I am flying in..... So when you have NO hle at controlling the aircraft and no matter what you do it will not take correctional inputs, seems you are just a passenger to the crash site... Glad they had many GOOD pilots minds to assist this poor pilot dealing with this unusual condition... Would like to know if it was the autopilot or some other machinal controls that were the actual problem...?
As a lifelong pilot, and a retired TRACON controller, I give ATC an A+!
Yeah they did. I am assuming that they went through ATCSCC to get Piper. I don't know that we have directs to Piper at our TRACON. Sidenote map isn't to scale. They have him in Jackson, Meridian then Vicksburg almost. Like ZHU airspace.
When he said "I'm by myself. Let's not go into a metropolitan area" he was thinking he didn't want to crash into anyone, right? That was chilling.
Affirm.
Yup, that’s what a good pilot does, man…passengers, people on the ground, crew, you…that’s the hierarchy. It sounds grim but it is what it is. There’s really no FAR in part 91 about that aside from “operating without undue hazard to people on the ground” and the distances you have to maintain from structures, populated areas, etc. It just seems to be how things operate out in the wild.
I got choked up..
Yes and maybe not deal with all the traffic too
That pillows thinking about everyone in the world ( on the ground) but himself he had in his mind he was going to crash and that was that. Idk who he was or the ATC my hats off to both of you for working together and working the problem not letting the problem work you.
" Let's not go into a Metropolitan area "... Not all Hero's wear Capes. God Bless you, Sir !
Think that guy owes ATC a couple of beers lol.
A couple maybe a couple of Kegs !!
They need to send those 2 ATC controllers to OKC to teach new controllers, I live 30 miles to Will Roger’s, I would love to meet them 😎
Cocktails
I think his last transmission was trsnscribed wrong. I think he said "I owe you one" choking up at the end.
Tremendous ATC work. One of the best I’ve ever heard
Whatever happened to cause the issues and subsequent dramas (no emergency manual etc.) they all did a fantastic job of getting this pilot home safe. Well done to all involved - ATC, the Pilot, Piper and the emergency crews (who were fortunately not needed, but great to know they were on the scene just in case). It's this level of communication that blocks ALL the holes in the Swiss cheese from lining up successfully.
Great channel by the way - I really like the fact that you don't narrate the obvious, and have some nice visuals that align with the audio. Good work, thanks and I hope your channel takes off!
If that controller doesn't get an award of some kind, something's wrong. He literally kept that man alive. Through exhaustion, exasperation and confusion (well justified), he sounded resigned to die, but that controller coached him. The pilot sounded exceptionally competent, but he was out of ideas.
Never knew about this incident and i worked at the greenville ms airport for 10 years (greenwood is right next door). Your flight map illustration threw me off a little bit because you have the airport posted at the top of ms when its really central kinda west side. Glad he got it on the ground safe tho!
We are near KTUP and I was very confused.
I was confused as hell by the map at first too, but I’m pretty sure the lines are not state lines, rather roads or counties or something. I can’t imagine he flew halfway across the state during that time lmao
Yea that confused me too. The dot looks more like round the tupelo area. Maybe olive branch. Hard to tell without any other references
Wondering how he lost the emergency handbook?
But what a wonderful job by all involved. The poise the pilot maintained and the team effort the ATC and everyone else gave him. A pleasure to listen too.
Good question! Losing the emergency handbook must have added an extra layer of stress!
He was yelling at someone on the phone about them taking it out of the plane.
@@GWNorth-db8vn guess someone needed some bathroom reading material
It shouldn't have been lost. It's in the POH/AFM. It's a required document every time you fly and it's the pilots responsibility to make sure it's there and accessible at all times.
He mentioned he's by himself, so I'm not sure who he could have been yelling at. Could be he removed it and he was yelling at himself, but it also kind of sounded like it got sucked out of the plane by the wind, somehow? Not sure how that would happen but it's somewhat plausible...
Emerg handbook jammed in with the cables somewhere?
I Googled the tail #, N113RC, and this same aircraft had another emergency event just a year and a half earlier. Night time VFR flight, three passengers. One engine out while climbing through 6500'. Emergency declared. Pilot requested assistance but had to reject first choice of airport after pilot couldn't get the runway lights to turn on. Landed safely at alternate airport (Greenville, Mississippi) shortly after. Kind of odd coincidence.
Not odd if it's an electrical issue.
But I don't think I'd be giving it a 3rd Strike 😳
@@My-Pal-Halyeah that explains a lot. I've seen issues like this before with the servos. The breaker needs to be pulled.
@@devinthierault
Hopefully he thought of that.
But if it's had problems before, and has them now. And something ain't working obviously.
I SURE WOULDN'T STAND THEIR,.. WAITING TO BE THROWN STRIKE 3 😂
Busses are cool, get back to me when it's fixed.
Kinda sounds like a ground fault somewhere. Or a ground fault caused by corrosion or bad connections same.
Those F with Everything !!!
So I'd look for that in the diagnosis. But I'm not guessing. I'd be finding and confirming.
And letting my buddy take the test flight 🤣🤣🤣😉
... it's ok, he's single
I don’t think I’d be flying in that plane again.
@@My-Pal-Hal it was in 2017 but it seemed like he pulled breakers but somehow panicked and over did things and either actually kept re-engaging the autopilot over and over again thinking he was fighting against it or something really did jam and he still panicked and killed the wrong nreakers. I looked at the autopilot he used it's a Collins one with a few rocker switches. Either way the investigation revealed damage to the flight control surfaces from fighting against the autopilot probably. I saw an ad to sell it, seems fine now but still. Screw that lol
1 word. TEAMWORK
Great job for all involved parties.
Everything considered, the gear up issue was just a minor inconvenience at that point 😆
He stayed very calm considering he lost all control
Ok, calm is a relative term, I have other words for his attitude.
A year and a half earlier, that same aircraft had an engine out emergency with 4 people on board. Landed Safely.
That bird is haunted! It happens....
This channel is so good 👏🏼👏🏼
Glad you think so!
Made my hair stand on end...and I'm bald! Great work pilot and ATC!!
That was intense, had a gear down failure in my VodoChody L39 , keeping a clear head is the key . I freaking panicked for a minute and was about to eject . Thankfully that was the only issue and had plenty of time to go over the checklist , reset and gear down .
If you want intense listen to kaletta , I can’t control altitude speed …ect And the duel engine failure of an Mu2 at APA in IMC conditions.
What a fantastic coordination by all !
I'm trying to wrap my head around how this could have happened. I'm a pilot and also work as a maintainer. One of the checks you're supposed to do prior to takeoff is set the A/P to heading mode and twist the bug one way or the other and make sure that you're able to physically overpower the A/P, as well as disconnect it with the A/P disconnect button or electric trim inputs. Also can't imagine how the A/P could have continued operating with either the avionics master or the master switch turned off. Where would the servos have been getting power from and what would have been sending them commands? I wonder if he tried pulling the circuit breakers for the A/P or the individual servos. Be interested to see what the findings were.
That’s a really insightful perspective, especially coming from someone with both pilot and maintainer experience. The situation definitely raises questions about how the A/P continued to operate and why standard procedures to disconnect it may not have worked. Pulling the circuit breakers for the A/P or servos seems like a logical step if other methods failed-I’m curious if that was attempted too. It will be interesting to see the investigation findings and what contributed to this anomaly. Situations like these highlight just how important redundancy and emergency training are!
@@Flight_Follower As luck would have it, my shop currently has a PA31T2 Cheyenne in for an Event 1 inspection (Piper structures their routine inspections as Event 1 and 2). The incident aircraft may have had different avionics entirely but I'm curious now to run this past a couple of my coworkers including our avionics department. I'll report back if anyone has any plausible theories 'cause I'm sure coming up empty.
Update: After talking about this scenario with the chief inspector at my shop he was equally baffled. All A/P servos have a clutch that allows you to override it with manual control inputs. His best educated guess would be a power surge that damaged all the A/P servos as well as causing the landing gear issue. But even that seems unlikely. Unfortunately it seems like we may never know for sure.
@@fivestringslingerany possibility of a lightning strike or static from clouds causing this?
@devinthierault Possibly but the preliminary report on the Aviation Safety Network site indicates that it occurred in VMC.
POH book- "No, you took it outta here, it's out of the airplane......". That statement led me to believe someone else was in the airplane with him, but he stated he was alone
He’s probably on his cell phone. Think about it…this is not 1990.
he was on the phone
He was on the phone, but I agree -- it did sound like he could have been talking to someone next to him. It took me a second to remember he was by himself, but if you didn't know that, I can understand thinking someone else was there.
He’s on the phone
He was talking to somebody on his cell phone
Holy ATC! Calm, cool and collected! Also attaboy to the dude who had test pilot on speed dial!
I had a similar situation that turned out to be all my fault, but it sure seemed like the airplane was jamming the controls at the time.
I was in a Cessna Cutlass RG, IFR in the soup, inbound for the ILS, descending 500pfm. At the IAP the chart called for a turn of about 30° to the final approach course. When I hit the IAP, I discovered that the yoke was jammed. I was still in a 500 fpm descent and flew through the localizer and would need to make a fairly significant correction.
The first moment of panic started when I tried to overpowering the frozen yoke and couldn’t. I quickly realized I had forgotten to disengage the auto pilot, which in this aircraft wasn’t slaved for coupled approaches. I pushed the auto pilot off button, but the yoke remained jammed. I tried to arrest my descent, but found the elevator also jammed, which caused me to seriously panic.
I was still in the soup with about 1000 feet to the MDA. I tried to call the controller to declare a missed, but the radio gave me no side tone, and I noticed that I wasn’t hearing any radio transmissions anymore. I immediately suspected I was having a total electrical failure.
I did finally managed to overpower the elevator and leveled off. I forced myself to get the POH out and systematically troubleshoot the problem. The first step, of course, is “auto pilot off“ and I looked up to see that it was still on! I had turned off the intercom instead in my haste. Once I really turned the auto pilot off, I regained full control of the aircraft and was able to contact approach and declare a missed. By now, I was far off course and they were quite puzzled, but I just told them “I had an auto pilot problem“. After landing, I filed an ASR, I spent a lot of time rereading the systems on this aircraft..
Wow. That will humble you.
Wow, what a harrowing experience! It’s impressive that you managed to keep your composure enough to systematically troubleshoot the problem despite the panic of being in IMC with what felt like a cascade of failures. It really highlights how critical it is to stay methodical in emergencies and truly know your systems inside and out. Mistaking the intercom switch for the autopilot in the heat of the moment is such a relatable error-those high-stress moments can make even simple tasks challenging. Kudos to you for getting through it safely and for taking the time to file the ASR and study the system afterward. Experiences like yours are a great reminder for all of us to double-check and stay sharp, especially with avionics!
This one got me, I subscribed
Thanks
Sunds like the pilot was on is cell to the owner abut the missing handbook. I would have thought it was part of any pre-flight check.
Every aircraft required by FAA regulation to have ARROW and confirmed by crew. A= Air Worthiness certificate R= Registration certificate R = Radio station license if international travel O = OPERATING LIMITATIONS which would in the pilot operating manual NOT ON THE PLANE he says. W = Weight and balance data.
Captain obvious!
thanks Nigel
Upvote Pls For the Deaf: End transmission caption error - pilot says "I owe you one!" in great relief. (Not "holy.") So he's ok! :) He had gone from a tone of morose, despondency at the start; to one of crying relief. The ATC remain cordial. Do not match his lack of discipline at the end.
If I were ATC, I would have said "yeah you do!" ☺ But that's cause I listen to too much Kennedy Steve.
WoW My heart was pounding just listening to this. Kudos to the patience and focus of all involved. What was causing the control problems?
Absolutely ridiculous... Pull the AP and electric trim circuit breakers, problem solved. If you don't know the emergency gear extension procedure (dirt simple in that airplane) you shouldn't be flying it!
That cussing was 1000% neccesary how clm he was talking lmao
Non-aviator here: The teamwork and understanding here are wonderful. FWIW I read the pilot's salty language as: he wasn't wasting mental energy keeping himself above an etiquette threshold. If that's his normal mode when he's stressed then this definitely wasn't the time to work on fundamental personality changes. He stayed in control and welcomed all available assistance. And he was not antagonistic. My one question would be: would he have decreased his overall risk even more by landing at a major airport? When he said he didn't want to get into a "metropolitan area" I wondered if that was due in part to intimidation about imposing on the systems there. If so, that strikes me as unfortunate. As always, TIA for any helpful replies.
He wanted to prevent a not unlikely crash into a populated area to minimize casualties.
Etiquette? What normal person wouldn't be talking like this.. Non pc days I miss
He was either worried about causing a mass casualty event in case he crashed, or he was concerned about collision avoidance and task saturation, given the traffic at a metro airport and his difficulty controlling the aircraft. Or a combination of both, perhaps.
@@execattyRespectfully, I think you're making too much of my arbitrary choice of the word etiquette, I suspect because you have a point you want to make publicly. And in fact I was deprecating the value of "etiquette" in this context, which might become apparent if you reread my comment.
Separately, thanks to those who helped me understand the decision-making factors involved in entering "metropolitan area" airspace.
@12345YJ respectfully I wasn't meaning to comment to your choice of the word etiquette but etiquette in general.. My bad.. I just meant that if I'm in that guys situation I'd try To be as calm as him but the expletives are more than warranted as it seems to be calming him down and getting out that frustration.. He probably thought he was dead and couldn't care less about his choice of words.. Nor would i.. That being said it was amazing all around.. My mistake if it seemed directed at you.. Peace ✈️
That "I made it..." was like a weight off of everyone's back I bet. Great job all around.
Pilot reminds me of the type of guy at work when one thing goes wrong he just loses it completely and it helps nothing. I realize multiple things happened but you still gotta keep a level head. It’s never a disaster if you can maintain altitude. Work the problem
If pulling the breaker for the autopilot doesn't get the autopilot to disengage those models of autopilot should be grounded. I can see where for emergencies it's good to have the thing still function but not taking it offline when wanted offline is all wrong.
Its not the first time this has happened either, their testpilots obviously had experience with it if thats who they try to contact first instead of their avionics engineers lol
@@lemonator8813 Suddenly properly trimming and keeping a good scan going seems like a good idea for guys spoiled by autopilots. Not a good thing when control is going bad and forcing the controls might end the ability to have any control. That's a wrong answer that shouldn't arise.
WOW!
That controller was awesome!
What is the word on the control system being locked up? Some issue with the autopilot servos?
According to initial statements from the pilot, while en route at 6,000 feet the landing gear horn sounded and the pilot was unable to silence the horn.
The pilot elected to return to GWO for a precautionary landing, at which time the autopilot engaged. The pilot spent several hours trying to disengage the autopilot including conversations with pilots on the ground and a pilot from Piper Aircraft.
Eventually the pilot was able to redirect the airplane to GWO with variable thrust from the engines and he landed the airplane without further incident. The airplane has been retained for an investigation.
I’m wondering what the issue with the airplane was
the pilot
That was the most real of any real, I've ever heard.
What a hell of a ride that must have been.
Wonder if he’ll fly again or just be happy to be on Terra firma for life
That sounds like a jammed control yoke are the equivalent. I don't think a navajos autopilot could be induced to act that way
Controller got a certificate for saving pilot and family that day.
I thought he was alone
At 10:07 I believe he is saying "I owe you one" instead of "holy...."
That's what I heard as well.
Me 3
Any follow up from the NTSB? Curious what the failure was.
They dropped the investigation sadly.
Gust lock? Tool left in the controls? He said he shut off the master, that should shut off the AP. But he must've turned it back on to talk, and that may have reactivated the AP. Be interesting to learn what the cause was.
Personally, I seldom used the AP and I never used the electric trim.
Airplane, two engines, cell phone, no emergency checklist. What could possibly go wrong?
If this was another controller, they’d be complaining that he didn’t say three Mike Charlie after every radio call
No AFM? That’s a preflight no go.
I need this ATC to guide me through taxes this year.
This guy needs investigated.
to be
They have planes in Mississippi?
Lol
Right? I thought the same. They barely have thumbs over there.
Wow, that was crazy!!!
Sounds like there was bit of jam in the physical cables. I don’t think it was anything.
Christine of the skys...
Sounds like the autopilot is grabbing.
When was this? I wonder what they found?
What I don't get is, why didn't they have him pull the Autopilot circuit breaker and take the A/P right out of the situation?
so what was found to be the problem with the aircraft?
The investigation I read said they could find nothing wrong with the aircraft.
Weird
wow! tough day
Yeah! Tough day
I wonder why he didn’t pull the autopilot and trim breaker.
Not sure about that
Adrenalin is a helluva drug.
Holy sht ghost in the machine 😂
So wtf caused this runaway plane to have these issues?!!
He had limited knowledge of the systems of his aircaft which caused him to turn a mole hill into mountain.
For whatever reason, the autopilot could not be disengaged . That is not an emergency. Autopilots are designed to easily be overpowered by the pilot in such situations.
That is one of the criteria for certification of the autopilot.
That's why Piper told him to use whatever power is needed to overpower the autopilot.
He simply panicked and his brain shut down.
Had to be told to use differential power to steer the plane, which is part of every multiengine pilots training.
A problem with the autopilot will not prevent the gear from lowering.
Engineers don't design airplanes so that a failure of one system causes other independent systems to malfunction.
When things calmed down a little he got the gear down normally without using the alternate extension procedure. What was he doing wrong initially that caused the gear not to lower but later it lowered just fine?
The NTSB initially got involved in this and held the airplane for investigation, but then dropped the investigation when nothing was found wrong with the airplane. Interviewing the pilot probably had a lot to with them dropping an investigation on what initially sounded like serious situation.
Thanks to the cool heads of the controllers, they were able to keep this pilot from panicing any deeper and got him on the ground safely.
Without them this guy was a breath away from going into serious panic mode.
Great controller 👍
You show him flying across half the state -- you should use a normal map like a VFR chart from skyvector. Your scale is way off.
Air Traffic Control....... saving lives every day. What else can you say. ?
Dang, yoke out of order? That's no yoke. (I know, bad yoke, bad yoke)
That's a nightmare scenario, losing primary control surfaces. That's why I train using other means of controlling the aircraft. (not many left, though) Remember United 232?
Glad the pilot got safely on the ground. And I too would love to hear a follow up on how the controls became INOP. (both NTSB and Google failed to find the final report)
Some "memory items" weren't.
That was a white knuckle ride!
Like to know what caused the problems.
Anyone know what causes the flight controls to lock up?
Did he forget all the gust locks? Curious people need to know!
How would you have gotten off the ground? Did you think someone went back there and installed them after takeoff?
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity Chill.
Apparently there was an engine out scenario but this wasn't clearly stated in the ATC comms.
@@everythingisfine-b4d The engine out was a separate incident.
Maybe mark Greenwood correctly? It's in the delta, not by olive branch.
Was this the 2017 incident ?
Yeah
OMG! What a nail biter!
This sounds like the pilot had a problem with the autopilot and got extremely irritated and made this into as big of an ordeal as he possibly could. Seems like a good amount of acting going on.
Wife and two young kids on board so probably yelling at the kids about the book.
Communicate, navigate, aviate
Does anyone know this mans name?
Well hell, what ultimately caused the problem? LOL!
There have been accounts of pilots experiencing a overtake of controls from somtimes another "craft" this seems similar minus a "craft". or pilot error 🤔 😂 To this day a mystery?
Is this guy really a pilot or did he just watch TH-cam videos on how airplanes work?
Whoa, Nelly.
I’m not sure where or if he does his formal training but the pilot should have better knowledge of his airplane systems than was displayed here.
The cursing and other comments are indicative of the hazardous attitude of resignation. Those who are criticizing his radio work in the comments aren’t offended by it but recognize it as coming from a pilot who was not fully trained in his aircraft and knew it.
ATC did a great job except the idea of suggesting a flyby when the pilot had three green lights was a bad idea with an uncontrollable airplane. There was nothing else that could have been done at that point. Once the gear has been extended manually it can’t be recycled inflight (something the pilot should know, with or without the manual), not to mention the hazards of a go around with jammed controls.
In an emergency, any brain cells spent worrying about what whiny, entitled, uneducated, crybabies think about normal, everyday language are brain cells wasted. Someone else's choice to be afraid of words is simply immaterial at that point, and using such words is indicative of literally nothing useful here. If anything, it's indicative of the pilot's ability to prioritize properly.
The only point I heard resignation is when he decided the documents he needed definitely weren't in the airplane. Really though, that's called "accepting reality", and is kind of mandatory for survival at that point because it allows him to focus on things he actually has control over. The rest of the time he was constantly trying to get control of the aircraft, and relayed all the information he could, trying to get help -- the exact opposite of resignation.
Despite what must have been an intense level of primal terror despite nearly colliding with a planet, he maintained a very calm, very professional* demeanor, even after being physically exhausted from manhandling the aircraft. And that ability to slow down a bit and contemplate is generally far more useful than rushing to do random things in a hectic manner just to stay busy, especially in an emergency.
Sure, a pilot with more experience on the aircraft would have a better ability to troubleshoot, and he obviously failed at least one part of his pre-flight by leaving important documentation behind. It's very possible the entire thing was his fault and would have been prevented by more training on these exact systems (or just more hours flying in general). But you'll hear very similar commentary from guys with thousands of hours on an aircraft when everything is going this pear-shaped. Of course, it's very rare for this much to go wrong at once on the aircraft guys with thousands of hours tend to be flying, so you might mistake that for some kind of extra "professionalism"* when it's just better equipment and more consistent procedures.
In reality, when you don't have a nice, perfect list of things to do, nobody comes up with the exact solution instantly, and synthesis of new ideas is an imperfect process, especially when your communication is punctuated by gathering empirical evidence of shit that's trying to kill you, in realtime. Notice that even the ATC, who is under FAR less stress, stuttered and paused and ummed and ahhed quite frequently. He just didn't use words your mommy told you were "bad"** so you ignored it.
* Actual professionalism is about getting the job done, not refraining from offending sensitive people or winning pageantry contests. In certain cases, those are actually the same thing, but not always, or even mostly.
** The reason most*** words "are bad" is because elitist dickbags said so and made fun of other people. Yes, really. Stop being offended and they stop being "bad" words. It's literally that simple. And, in hilarious irony, avoiding "bad" words has actually become vulgar. Again, really. Because lots of common people do it, which is what "vulgar" means.
*** There's a difference between "oh no! he said 'fuck'!" and "as a Christian I choose not to use the name of my deity (Yehowah/Jesus/God/etc.) in a reckless manner" or similar. In the one, people pretend the word itself is bad, though they can never articulate why. In the other, it's the usage of the word that's situationally problematic. But, while the second has some subjective merit, other people have no moral or legal duty to adjust their own behaviors to suit one person's religious (or other) beliefs, especially in a serious situation.
Note, however, that it can be useful when you're the non-stressed person (like ATC here) to deliberately avoid words or phrases associated with stress, because the appearance of calm can help keep the stressed person (our pilot) from getting more stressed. It can also help defuse a tense situation, but you can't defuse the airplane out of the sky, so that's not really relevant here. What definitely doesn't help is telling people to "calm down" or similar when they're already appropriately calm for the issue at hand (which ATC correctly avoided doing).
Also note there's an enormous difference between using a "bad" word instead of some "polite" word, and learning to articulate. "Oh, oh, oh, oh" is just as inarticulate as "fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck"; "the, umm, rudder" is slightly LESS articulate than "the goddamned rudder"; and filling every other word with "fuck", "shit", or "ass" is exactly as unhelpful as doing it with "like", "right", or "totally". People with no concept of reality conflate these two all the time, but there's actually zero correlation between which words you use for filler and how articulate you are (or between usage of "bad" words and overall vocabulary).
You’ve never been in a situation like that, don’t criticize
Holy shit
Democratic state Senator Heidi Campbell, whose 20th District covers Nashville's inner suburbs, was speaking after state legislators approved a bill Tuesday that would make it illegal for lawmakers to vote for policies perceived as opposing President Donald Trump's agenda-namely sanctuary procedure.
I can translate "Holy (unreadable)" at 10:29 but maybe I shouldn't...
😅
China parts ,RIGHT... SYSTEM. JAM......
Good story but the editing was completely off tower. Tell the pilot turn right and the little red cartoon plane on the screen turns left tower. Tell him something like he’s doing a good job and the pilot says thank you. So he’s told to turn right,,,
the red cartoon plane turn left. Lol.
Yeah there doesn't seem to be much if any correlation between the graphic and the audio.
This guys shouldn’t have been flying.
And, he took off without an AFM onboard.
Not to undermine the seriousness, but this pilot's a Drama Queen! Seriously, get your act together Cupcake!
Nice to know you are calm enough to be judgmental sitting in your armchair.
Swearing over the radio is a felony. This pilot needs to be arrested.
What a whiner.
😃
Some anger control issues here (the language, the frustration, no handbook, etc.) I understand his feelings but pilots must stay in control of their emotions at all times especially in a high performance aircraft like the Cheyanne. Great job by ATC getting Piper to assist
That’s fear and annoyance of potentially dying - not anger.
Said from the comfort of your armchair 🙄
Ah..SHUT UP! The guy was about to die!
When shits this sideways your welcome to speak freely.
@ max: fear mixed with anger. Listen carefully to his cell phone call re manuals.
Wow! I Hope to never need a TEST PILOT to help me fly in an airplane that I am flying in..... So when you have NO hle at controlling the aircraft and no matter what you do it will not take correctional inputs, seems you are just a passenger to the crash site... Glad they had many GOOD pilots minds to assist this poor pilot dealing with this unusual condition... Would like to know if it was the autopilot or some other machinal controls that were the actual problem...?
Yep screw the autopilot
Wow,that’s a question plus 2