"Please go support your local book stores, they REALLY need it. However, I do have an Amazon affiliates link in the description to support ME because I'm not actually concerned about the bookstores."
@@Richard_Nickerson What an ignorant comment. He puts a lot of time and effort into these videos. Nobody is forcing you to click the affiliate links. TH-camrs are trying to make a living like anyone else. I see you have a koala in your photo. If you ever visit Australia please get in touch with me.
@@brent.johnson No, that's not ignorant at all. It's completely within reason to point out that he goes from saying support local bookshops because they really need it to support Amazon and me instead in basically the same breath. What's ignorant is blindly defending him against such an observation. Amazon is literally the entity that needs the least support during this pandemic. Edit: And why? You wanna beat me up or something? 🙄 My profile picture is the random one Google assigned to me.
Personally I can’t wait for the release of “History of the lords of the reach vol 8” in 2038 to give more fun hints about what will be in Winds of Winter. Much more fun than getting to actually read it.
There's either one of two outcomes. 1. He's finished winds and is actually working on dream to release them close to one another. 2. (And more likely) he's tired of writing it and won't ever finish or pass it off to another author with all his notes.
@@EL-ISS very plausible tbh; love idea of him drawing out TWoW because he's actually writing ADoS (that last book will still be ATLEAST 5yrs+ out from TWoW's release).
That quote from Dan Wies is a perfect example of why their writing was so shitty. He started with the end goal, he wanted the dragon to knock down the wall, then he had to come up with some excuse for why it was up north. So, as with other times, he had characters acting in stupid ways and doing stupid things because all he his focus was on the end goal rather than making sure the WHOLE story was good and made sense.
Yes. You have to have the characters do exactly what they would do in any given scene. You can't force them to go one way or another if it is not something they would believably do. They have no clue how to do this. But these are the guys who wrote X-men Origins: Wolverine, after all. We should have known what to expect from the beginning.
Yes and no. The methodology of having an established endpoint and, then, creating the means by which the endpoint is achieved is how many people write. Dumb&Dumber's problem lay specifically in the execution. They were both lazy, arrogant, and are, honestly, hacks when it comes to writing. They were given the greenlight by HBO and, essentially, a blank check to make the final season(s) of the show. Instead of letting GoT end at a natural pace or handing the project off to a competent someone who cares about it, they rushed it terribly to go make money with Disney on a Star Wars project. So, because they are enormous assholes that only care about money, they butchered the last 3ish seasons and just didn't care or listen.
@@americanodude The point I'm trying to make is that the end goal was ALL they cared about. I understand that some writers have an end goal in mind but they ALSO take care to make sure that the whole story makes sense and has the characters making logical choices that lead up to that end goal. Dumb and dumber don't have a clue how to write a good story, so in order to force that end goal they had characters doing things that made no sense.
I'm sure there were many ways to get to that point without that suicide squad plan, you really have to be on a different level of stupidness to write that shit.
exactly, they did this for mad queen twist too. they destroyed all characters around Daenerys include herself for Mad Queen story line. the problem is their end goal wasn't fit on characters and story so they turned them into stupid characters.
It's hard to maintain peak emotional intensity. Pace yourself. And don't worry that the fires of raging antipathy re: D&D may eventually burn out. I see as more like the Others - generally lingering below the surface but nonetheless ready to re-emerge when suitably provoked. The Hate remembers.
It's funny how Dany's most violent actions are always thrown out there as indicators of her dormant darkness. Yet ALL of her merciful actions are ignored and the fact that the actions that were violent were a response to threats ignored too. The "cold stare" as her brother is killed bugs me to no end. You seem to forget this loving line of dialogue from Vyseris: "I would let his whole tribe rape you, all 40,000 of his men and their horses too if that's what it took..." What a loving brother... And yet, she DOES regret it. But no, she has been always evil. Yet Arya kills and kills and kills and the response is always "you go girl!"
@Zen Tao We really don't know what exactly happened after the sack of kings landing and the events of the 1st book. Viserys was always abusive towards Dany and saw her as a tool more than a sister. Sure when he's faced with death he tries to play the loving, regretful brother but remember his last action is to threaten Dany's unborn child. At that point Dany has no choice but to stand by while Drogo murders him. If she had pleaded for his life she would have been deemed weak and unworthy of delivering "the stallion who mounts the world". Her own life and her son's would have been endangered.
@@fernandosimon5621 coin flip theory was in the books too.. The Queen of Thorns Olena Tyrell says it when talking to Sansa about marriages and recalls her own betrothal one of which was to a Targaryen. She says it's a common saying amongst the small folk.
The theory of Hodor dying with sword in hand with Bran riding his mind would be doubly tragic; it would allow Bran to act out his stolen dreams of being the knight in shining armour, and horribly confront him with what the reality is like.
Also notable that this would be happening while Bran is simultaneously violating Hodor terribly by warging him (which is hugely taboo among wargs) and effectively painfully murdering Hodor as well in the present, while also managing to simultaneously reveal that Bran is the person who (however unintentionally) largely destroyed Hodor's mind in the past and left him unable to lead a normal life any time past his early childhood. It also probably shouldn't be forgotten that the end result for Hodor is that he's being abandoned by Bran and Meera, probably to die but be left in a physical condition good enough that there's no reason the Others couldn't/wouldn't turn him into a wight and use him the same way Bran had been using him. That's a lot of bad to pack into one scene; even Ramsey would probably be impressed.
Bran wanted to be a kingsgaurd he will wield the sword of a legendary lc of the kingsguard(aemon the dragonknight) through a descendant of a legendary lc of the kingsguard(ser duncan the tall)
The issue with Dany *wasn't* that she went dark--there are hints of that throughout the books, so book readers should have had an idea that it was coming. The issue most of us have is with how quickly Dany went dark. It wasn't written well and it made the character come across as, frankly, psychotic. The writers and showrunners expected us to believe that Dany could lose everything and use that as a springboard to 'greatness' but that when her best friend and her primary protector--who, incidentally, led her *away from* behaving like her father the "mad King"--were lost, she'd suddenly snap and go on a fiery bloody rampage against the citizens. The writers and showrunners had a responsibility to show her descent into madness and they failed to do that. Clarke's acting was never the problem. She did a great job with what they gave her. The problem is that the writers weren't worth a damn. They had little concern for character development or plot development once they reached a point that Martin was no longer active with the show. You can clearly see where Martin's direct advising stopped on the show because of the huge difference in dialog quality and because the very things that made these characters human and, on some level, relatable went with him. Tyrion magically became an idiot, Sansa magically became Cersei junior (in the books, her compassion--even for enemies--is plainly evident. It actually comes across as a plot point to me because of how it's not glossed over. She is, for all intents and purposes, the anti-Dany in that, at least to this point in the books, she doesn't change and become cold or ruthless), Cersei became a caricature (in the books, you can at least tell that her one redeeming quality is her love for her children. Everything Cersei did was with her children in mind. Show Cersei--through no fault of Lena Headey's--was just a literal caricature of book Cersei...and not a very good one at that once Martin wasn't on set anymore. Benioff and Weiss failed Martin, they failed the cast, and they failed the fans.
Exactly. People say we should know that this was bound to happen but they don't realise that we're mad because they made it into a clusterfuck. The writing was terrible not the ending . Bran being king was more of a problem due to the fact that it was inconsistent to his character and that they had assassinated brans character in the show
Yeah Dany going crazy in the show was just a "we need this to happen so make it happen" nonsense. Her reason in the show were just so shallow and weak. Personally while reading the books I was routing for Mad Queen Dany to happen, so I don't dislike that it happened just that there was no justification for it in show. Dany's show "madness" was because of: - Her advisors thought she was slipping because she wouldn't listen to them and was short tempered with them. Her advisors whose plans continually failed and set her back by losing supplies and troops (not really a big deal in the show though because respawn and what not). So they betray her (or plan to) because they won't listen to their awful worthless advice. - The "mean girl" plot of Winterfell was just embarrassing to even watch. Sansa being a catty bitch with middle school drama was... ugh. Dany puts her claim for the throne on hold to bring her army North to save the realm and Winterfell. In doing so she sacrifices her entire army to help (again except for respawn and nothing actually having a meaningful impact). And Arya and Sansa still despise her and claim she is untrustworthy because... Sansa is like "the smartest person I know" while behaving like nothing other than an ignorant child with nothing useful or beneficial to actually add to any situation. That coming from someone who book Sansa is one of my favorite characters. - She finally snaps and goes crazy once the battle is over and Kings Landing and the Lannister's surrendered. I mean the stupidity of that is just self explanatory. And I agree about Clarke's acting. In fact I think season 8 had her best acting of the whole series, just a shame D&D were being praised for the mediocrity for years so HBO never stepped in to make them hire competent writers. Season 8 delivered exactly what seasons 5-7 were building to.
I can't really see her madness from the books, all I can see is naiveness , lack of experiences and lack of knowledge from the past of House Targaryen and how her father and brother lost the control of the kingdom , she was poorly educated by Viserys and now she has a lot of power in her hands...I really don't see how different she is from Robb or Jon ( after he became Lord Commandant ) , they just don't have the madness factor on their equations . Another example comes from Arianne Martell with her plan to crown Myrcella and her bitterness towards her father, when she didn't know he had great plans for her, her actions could have started a war in Dorne , maybe they still will if Cersei gets her power back somehow . What I really feel when I read Dany's chapters or any other chapter from young characters is that youth and inexperience is a major cause for mistakes especially when it comes to rule . See how Catelyn, Ned, Tyrion , Davos, Jaime , even Jon Connington and Barristan on their pov's they aways know what's really going on and their predictions are always certain, because they all have experience and knowledge .
@@marwanali4878 Bran's crowning actually makes a lot of sense to me. The show's writing to get people there ("...stories! And who has a better story than Bran the Broken?") was utter nonsensical shit, but the entire series (books, not show) gives us clues about it when it talks about the madness that runs through the Targaryen dynasty, the terrible leadership of some the main houses (Targaryen, Baratheon, Lannister), shows the tyranny of the church as head of state (the faith of the Seven, the High Sparrow and his faith militant standing in for the Catholic church and, in the Wars of the Roses upon which ASoIaF/GoT is based, the eventual break of the royal house from the Catholic church), and gives a pretty clear indication of what Martin, as an author, thinks makes a good ruler: someone who is calm, comfortable in the authority they wield (you will never hear Bran say "I am the KING!" because he doesn't feel a need to remind anyone of his power), someone who isn't swayed by emotion--a dispassionate leader who understands emotion but who doesn't rule according to feelings and whims, someone who fully understands the history, learns the lessons of history, and whose views are based on what is good for every person (the king they need, though not necessarily the king they want or even deserve) and even the world in which they live. Let's be honest: even a legitimized Baratheon bastard has Targaryen blood, and as we saw in both Viserys and Danaerys, blood will tell. The only Lannister remotely acceptable to a thinking person as a ruler would be Tyrion--but he's a dwarf with a bad reputation from a family with an atrocious reputation, and he has made some mistakes even with his intelligence and wisdom. Jon would no more make a good king than his uncle Eddard--they're both victims of their own rigid honor, and both are thoroughly inflexible (and I say this as a member of Team Stark) when a question puts them in a position to have to be flexible for the good of the people. And the Martells have always been fairly separate from the Realm, so it's difficult to believe that a Martell is even a possibility. Martin's been laying breadcrumbs on the trail of King Bran since the beginning. Sadly, the show's writers lack Martin's talent (and patience), so "Bran the Broken's ah-may-zing *story* " is what they left us with--and left us all very confused and pretty angry about how badly it was botched.
@Thyme and Oregano dumb point, humans can change. tyrion at the start of the books is all about standing up for the underdogs, shielding the innocent, and now at the current point in the books he fantasizes about how much he wants to rape and kill cersei after what she did to him. and it's completely believable. people totally eat up redemption arcs, but call descension arcs unrealistic and bad writing. people can get worse in their morals, especially during points in time when they're the most impressionable, and dany is a teenage girl. in the books, her entire arc in meereen is about the constant struggle she faces with the clashing identities of being a ruler and being a conqueror. surprise surprise, it ends with her realizing that who she is at her core is "fire and blood," a targaryen, and a conqueror. just like the first targaryen conqueror, who won the seven kingdoms by burning hundreds of thousands of men alive in dragonfire until they couldn't mount any form of resistance. to deny the path her character is going at this point is just being silly. you're allowed to like characters who aren't good people, i like daenerys, i think she's a wonderfully written and enjoyable character, but i can also recognize that she's spent her whole life learning about her heritage from a violence-prone psychopath. no normal person would be walking out of that morally pure.
I think George is telling the truth when he writes that the past can't be changed. However, that's only half the story. You can't change things because those things have already happened, but the 'time traveller' can be the cause of why they happened. We saw that with Hodor. When Bran warged into him in the past he didn't change anything, he was just the cause of why Hodor is the way he has always been. What will happen has happened, and what has happened will happen.
Emilia Clarke was told she would kill civilians but only accidentally because dragon fire ignites wild fire. This was what she believed she had filmed. The showrunners didn't even tell her afterwards, knowing she would be attending a screening party for fans months later. Clarke said she felt so sick seeing what had been done that she couldn't eat anything at the dinner.
Dany burning Kings Landing, which has been talked about for years by the book fans, is less of a problem of it actually happening rather than how it was handled. I imagine in the books it may feel more like a tragedy with a slow ramp up. In the show it left you befuddled, and maybe feeling like character assassination. She went crazy over the most flimsy of reasons in 2 episodes. They blew it in other words. And sorry, all those brutal things she had done before were consistent with the world she was in. Especially when taking into account the sociopathic nature of Arya. I dont see anyone asking why she got this happy ending and not one of a complete lunatic murdering rampage ending. Remember, she murdered someone, dismembered them, and cooked them. This Texas Chainsaw Massacre territory. Oh, and then she murdered an entire House whether they were innocent or otherwise - with no repercussions of course. But Arya was never consistent after season 4. She was seemingly normal and got a fairly happy ending. Ridiculous.
Main problem the show had with that particular arc is that far to much was going on. You had dany burning king's landing, Jon trying to maintain peace after the lannisters surrendered, Arya planning to assassinate cersei, Jaime going to save cersei, the hound going to kill the mountain, euron trying to kill Jaime... I could go on. Far to much to cram into a single episode, should have been fleshed out over a few episodes; first episode have all the pieces move into place; armies arriving, dialogue explaining each characters exposition, and perhaps end with Danny torching the ships. Beginning of the next episode have the golden company being wiped out, skirmishes with lannisters, and Jaime fighting euron, Arya and the hound moving through the city Third episode; danys turn and torching king's landing, mountain and hound deaths and then of course cersei and Jaime deaths. They just crammed FAR to much in
Oh my god, they mishandled Arya so much. And where the hell are the faceless men after she takes off? They just let her go, like that? No consequences? Yeah right.
@@inthefade yeah I found that odd that she had no consequences. She went blind from using a face and not being no one. When she returns to Westeros she becomes Arya again, ask why doesn't she go blind? The story ending with her going blind would be fair imo.
@@dekuuchiha9990 Going blind wasn't a punishment it was training. Blind fighting ninja training trope hides the secret Faceless Men's masks have no eyeholes.
Yes I always had a problem with them saying they did this in the show because it's going to happen in the books. No way book Stannis would do this... but in the books Stannis isn't there. Between Selyse, mel and the wildlings who fear her grayscale... poor shireen doesn't stand a chance!
I think the real issue with Dany's arc on the show, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, was that she went from A to Z without going through the rest of the alphabet, and that's why so many people were shocked. Even on the show there were always hints that she could go down that path, but in the end the path felt bypassed by a shortcut. As for Bran, I'm not sure he even reached A on the show, just turned up at Z. Here's hoping it makes sense!
There's some evidence it was decided as late as post-production. There are storyboards and quotes from effects guys that it was originally planned to be wildfire explosions
@@carlrood4457 I totally agree it was decided late and they way they did it made no sense and it left a very bitter taste for most of us fans now obviously GRRM does it in the books it should be laid out but like you said it was wildfire explosions that cause it not Dany going batshit crazy trying to kill innocent people
nah Robert Baratheon is dead, a boar got him, this is Robert Arryn, Lord of the Eyrie, Lord Paramount and Defender of the Vale, Warden of the East...he grew up
Daenerys becoming a tyrant isn’t surprising. In the beginning of the books, her basic desire was only to go home and she dreamed of the house with the red door. The tragedy is that she has no home and never will. She could’ve had one with Drogo and their child, but when Viserys was killed and her basic desire switched to his (taking the iron throne back), she lost that home. Walking viserys’ path instead of her own is leading her to a tragic fall.
There are strong parallels between the story arc of Dany and Joshua York in Fevre Dream - the main difference is that was a stand-alone book so George told Joshua’s descent into violence in flashback. So I think that Dany will get more violent but, like Joshua, will be horrified and use it as a spur to never repeat that. Both have a strong anti slavery theme as well- that desire to free people which came out of violence for both. Fevre Dream is a really powerful book on its own but worth reading for the parallels as writers often have favourite themes which over a longer series can be expanded.
GRRM wasn’t crystal clear on _Bran_ on the throne, he just said that he said D&D “who will end up on the Iron Throne”. The phrasing of the interview was a bit odd so maybe we’re in for some subtle twist? Who knows.
@@federicovolpe3389 i think so too ;) big fan of detective drogon theory :D check this, its from the script: We look over Jon’s shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne ― not the target of Drogon’s wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration. We look through the blades of the throne as the flames engulf it, and blast the wall behind it. We see the throne in the flames, turning red, then white, then beginning to lose its form. We get tight shots of the details melting in silhouette: the armrests, the iconic fan of swords on the backrest. The fire stops. The smoke clears revealing a puddle of smouldering slag where the throne once stood. Who will sit on the Iron Throne? No one.
My oppinion is at end Rickon will be lord of Winterfell Jon will die after the fight against white walkers (Dany and YG also will die) . Sansa will rule Vale (i know Robin is her cousin,but that is not big deal) -Gendry and Arya will marry to reunite North and South (King and Queen) -Edric will get Stroms End. - Edmur will rule Riverlands. -Tyron will rule Westerlands - Dorne will go to Alleine -Reach i rly dont have strong oppinion People who knows about Gendry are Stannis and Varys, Stannis cares about rules and he knows Gendry is the oldest Robert son, Stannis will propably die, but he will spread out the word . Varys in other hand support YG, but YG is propably FAegon (BlackFyre), dragon will be his test and dragon will kill him ( Quentyn had Targeryan blood but its was to much diluted) so Varys will support Gendry more than Targeryans. If Varys supports BlackFyre , he would rather have Robert bastard than Targeryans on the throne.
There's every chance George will change his plans either because of the show or otherwise. He's already dramatically changes his original plans for the books before.
I disagree about Rickon dying. George R.R. Martin is known for reusing plot ideas. My belief is that Rickon is the Viserys of this story. I'm of course talking about Viserys II, younger brother of Aegon the Dragonbane. Viserys disappeared and was presumed dead for years during the Dance of Dragons, then returned when his brother was king. He's also the youngest of five children. Rickon is also the youngest of five. Furthermore, if we get King Bran in the books there may be even more similarities. There's no way Bran of all people will rule from King's Landing. More likely he'll rule from Winterfell, which means Rickon will be second in the line of succession (until Bran has a son). So... Bran will be king. I'm guessing that he won't have any children, so Rickon will rule for a time after his death. He will be followed by his son, and so on.
Sounds like a prologue scene. Rickon coming home, hailing his brother the king, fulfilling his destiny. Bran will seem the last surviving, or present Stark, but cant have children, why Rickon must father an heir for the Stark line to live on. Because there must always be a Stark ...
I do agree that Bran will be King--I also think the Elected Monarchy as the end point is a logical end--the lords of Westeros are just too powerful to keep them in one country without say, Dragons to keep them in line. So that system makes sense. Further if we take the consideration that Planetos is de-evolving at a slow pace (GRRM likes writing about societies in slow declines) the critique that they're going backwards to a former state of governance, not a newer one makes sense (Elected Monarchies pre-date Hereditary ones in our own world). Further it fits with the overall theme that the Children of the Forest ultimately win the Game of Thrones via Bran/The Three Eyed Raven. They played the long game and won in the end over man by putting their collective consciousness in charge of Westeros. I expect that the election process will likely still happen, but somehow the successor who will be chosen will have skin changing capabilities and be the new host of the Three Eyed Raven--but that's future speculation beyond the scope of the books. Nor do I think that the Three Eyed Raven won't take advantage of being able to skin change people to make sure the "vote" goes the "correct" way--nor that in order for there to be peace, Bran doesn't have to do that himself in the books.
@Lilithan Chrispiford the 3rd He can still have heirs. Real life example: Christopher Reeve. They may not be able to feel it, but some things are reflexive and still work.
WHEW. I thought you were talking about the original Viserys at first... the poor older brother of Jaehaerys who Maegor had tortured for ten days before killing him. Yeah, hopefully Rickon gets a different fate. Viserys the Second was a great guy from what I can tell. His line ended up becoming the Targaryen ruling bloodline as well, and yeah, great theory. This would reinforce George's comparison of current characters with historical ones, as well as fit perfectly with the fate of Aegon the Dragonbane and his brother.
No, fire and blood also tells us that the dragons refuse to go north of the wall for very experienced dragon riders (much more experienced than Dany) and that all dragons who get close to the wall get very skittish.
@@siomhe8539 exactly. The Good Queen proved it during her progress to the north and the wall. Silverwing refused to go north of that wall. Another thing on the list of many questions that I’d like answered.
Bran's ascension will mean more with Bloodraven's past coming into play. Bloodraven (The three eyed raven) was a spymaster and basically the ruler of Westeros for years, this gives Bran a different kind of training to be King other than watching old wheelchairs.
@John Trevolter I didn't say good king, but if he ends up like Bloodraven then it should fit what george himself has said about the ending being bittersweet. Bloodraven did horrible things for his idea of greater good, this is most likely going to become Bran's philosophy.
No no no my friend. Rickon will be the Stark that will rule Winterfell. I believe that Rickon will return with Shaggydog and an army of Skagosi to beat the Bolton's and the Frey's . It would be fitting if Shaggydog devours Ramsay Snow and Roose Bolton, thus ending their line...or the Skogosi may eat them, since they are rumored to be cannibals.
I really truly believe 2 huge events with Wildfire will take place: 1. Cersei will blow up the Great Sept of Baelor. I think it will happen pretty much the way it did in the show. 2. Dany will release dragon fire on King's Landing to maybe hit some enemies here and there. It won't be good and it won't be justified, but I don't think her intention will be to destroy the city. Due to Tyrion and Hallyne's assertions that King's Landing is simply *flush* with King Aerys' squirrelled-away Wildfire, it will start a chain reaction that will completely destroy King's Landing. The mass amounts of still-hidden Wildfire is a huge Chekhov's gun to me.
I think Tyrion will definitely influence Dany’s dark turn. His character may start the story with a strong moral foundation, but his trial and Jaime’s confession changed him. He still is the character who would most enjoy watching KL burn.
@@hokogan Maybe she will go mad after that, feeling responsible for a mass murder, or she'll find herself unable to rule and will be more involved with the northern treat from White Walkers.
2 things. I thought somewhere it said that when Queen Alsanne went to the wall, the magic prevented her dragon refused to go over it three times. Was there something in the wall's magic? Also, granted it the show, but didn't Bran refuse to be Lord of Winterfell due to his status as the Three-Eyed Crow? If this follows in the books, why would it suddenly be OK to be king???
The only thing I trust about Bran becoming King is that it will make more sense in the books than the show. GRRM may be slow but he writes incredibly well, and I have no doubt that the King Bran storyline will be the culmination of many things that just click. Albeit, the books will likely have a lot more heartbreak involved.
I absolutely love this book. The sheer volume of cast and crew interviews is mind-blowing, and the insight it gives into the showmaking process is awesome
Bringing to life some big ass wolves was too technically difficult... but we had 3 huge dragons and one turned undead... oh and let's not forget the wall being destroyed by one. Oh and the vast hordes dead and others who led them... but they couldn't do 4 or 5 dire wolves
Indeed. He's far from a good man, but at least he's so possessive that he'll try to keep from harm's way physically. (Mentally I don't think he's able to do that, he doesn't even realise how much he has already done to her.)
The dark Dany seems to hold up in the show. When she does righteous violence, she almost seems to enjoy it. But in the books she seems conflicted and sometimes horrified at necessary violence... si I'm not sure "dark Dany" is Dany becoming the ultimate vilain of the series...
I agree, Dany can become dark without it meaning she commits mass murder *intentionally*. I could definitely see her burning down some areas of king's landing and all the hidden wildfire causing the entire place to burn down. I am hoping that this happening will snap her out of being dark because I'd really like to see her survive til the end. If we know Bran will be king then Dany will hopefully give up on the throne.
GRRM Constantly says how he always rewrites and changes things while progressing with the books. Although final plot twists seem less likely to be rewritten, i allow myself to hope that bran might not be king after all 😢
@@Matli1804 Theres no way to write the ending where Bran becoming king isnt the stupidest possible ending. Giving the kingship to a previously unknown species of sentient sofas would make more sense than that. Unless GRRM's ultimate morale with the story is that '1984 is some sort of model for the supreme society, then Bran needs to be revealed as what he is, a major villain. After all, with his ability to manipulate things across time, the only way he could end up on the throne is if he explicitly engineered events to lead to that outcome, the potential end of the world included. All the horror, explicitly set in motion and carried out by him, to seat his own sociopathic ass on the throne. The only way i can see this ending being true, is if it happens in the scouring of the shire sense. Everyone things everything is done and dusted, and Jon returns "home" to north of the wall, only for a revalation there to lead him to discover the truth about Bran, and they storm back south to defeat him.
@@generictotheextreme2566 I don’t know about a 9 year old becoming the thanos of Westeros but I agree under no circumstances will bran being king make sense.
My oppinion is at end Rickon will be lord of Winterfell Jon will die after the fight against white walkers (Dany and YG also will die) . Sansa will rule Vale (i know Robin is her cousin,but that is not big deal) -Gendry and Arya will marry to reunite North and South (King and Queen) -Edric will get Stroms End. - Edmur will rule Riverlands. -Tyron will rule Westerlands - Dorne will go to Alleine -Reach i rly dont have strong oppinion People who knows about Gendry are Stannis and Varys, Stannis cares about rules and he knows Gendry is the oldest Robert son, Stannis will propably die, but he will spread out the word . Varys in other hand support YG, but YG is propably FAegon (BlackFyre), dragon will be his test and dragon will kill him ( Quentyn had Targeryan blood but its was to much diluted) so Varys will support Gendry more than Targeryans. If Varys supports BlackFyre , he would rather have Robert bastard than Targeryans on the throne.
Dark Dany has always made sense to me: it’s a critique of the born to rule/ancient noble blood trope of Tolkien and his successors. Having a beautiful, destined by blood ruler taking power and being good and perfect would sorta fly in the face of everything Martin’s trying to do with the genre. I think there’s a little of Alexander The Great in Dany, a man who could conceive of an empire of meritocracy and multiculturalism but only with himself in charge of it (He has long been convinced of his own divinity). Like Alexander there’s no compromise to Daenerys, not really. And that’s dangerous.
The difference here is that Dany lost all privileges. Yes she has a claim but she was also sold, raped, betrayed and hurt. She has a claim but she has to earn it. Having said that the Dark Dany turn could be done by GRRM in a way that we the readers believe it. The show rushed it with the stupid coin flip theory saying that Targs are either born crazy or not. The show said Dany was and Jon was not. Then played a bunch of scenes that made Dany look crazy. If GRRM means to turn Dany on us he will make sense out of it.
@@fernandosimon5621 Also...the bad thing with the show is it didn't go so hard into fore-shadowing Mad Queen Dany. I watched the first 3 seasons then read the five books...and it was in the books that I really started to see and feel that Dany would ultimately head down a darker path....or at least a self-destructive path of mistakes causing her undoing. The show version of Dany had a lot of simps and fangirls and they played into the whole "she is like the mascot of the show" thing and really seemed to always want to make her seem much more good and pure than she really ever was. I think with the show, they REALLY wanted it to be more like "Dany was good, and then SNAPPED and nobody saw it coming" kind of vibe. Just like with Bran on the throne. They wanted it to be so shocking that they did not want to properly set it up, foreshadow it. Imagine.....if they had REALLY used Bran, and had him doing awesome stuff with his magic and abilities....then many fans probably would have expected or even wanted him on the throne. They wanted their "Wam, didn't see THAT coming did ya?" moment....so they consistently just underplayed him. In the book, Dany will probably not go from total sweetheart(which she never was) to absolute tyrant over night. It will be a downward spiral. One or two mistakes, with bad consequences or things that backfire badly....only to lead to further mistakes, and her to become increasingly enraged and frustrated and head down further into a dark path. Just as Theon's approach to taking Winterfell was kind of a sh!t show. He took a chance for something that he thought would be great...but he was in over his head, made some bad calls, and things got completely away from him and be paid. Robb Stark wasn't trying to be a 'bad guy' when he killed Karstark, there was a crappy set of circumstances and he felt it was the proper punishment in the moment....but it created a ton of strife that helped lead to his ultimate undoing. Martin had a lot more nuance and complexity in his writing than D&D...it won't be a "she was always evil deep down" or "she just snapped and turned evil" kind of vibe....Martin will play it with much more nuance and much more complexity in a way that is far more believable.
@@fernandosimon5621 I think that all of the hardship she endured turned to bitterness instead of strength of character because of the brainwashing that she was subjected to by her brother. She was raised on tales of entitlement.
@Paul WT I understand, I am just saying that for people who were 'show only', it wasn't as clearly or OVERTLY depicted. It was done in a way that allowed many viewers to kind of just brush it off and act like it came out of nowhere, but if you read the books....it felt a bit more painfully clear. The show really leaned into portraying her as some kind of pure goddess at certain moments, and always depicted those 'against' her as particularly despicable, so her darkness always felt like 'retaliation' Like...I don't recall her crowd-surfing a bunch of slaves in the books, yet that was depicted as the final 'triumphant' moment for her in Season 3. The show really leaned into the messiah complex with her, and the fans totally bought it. The marketing also very much leaned into making Dany seem like the mascot of the show, and of course the Dany/Emilia Clarke fangirls and simps didn't help, Dany could do no wrong in their eyes because they drank the kool-aid. The show kept things more surface level, and the final stages of her transition were poorly executed. The books have consistently maintained a lot more nuance and complexity, and her 'transition' will probably be more gradual and more nuanced than in the show...making the overall arc stronger. I don't hate the final season like a lot of people, I just feel that it was executed a little sloppily and just needed a bit more time to breathe. Ideally 10 seasons of 10 episodes would be nice for a complete 100 episode experience. But short of that, Season 7 and 8 certainly had enough narrative real estate to each get 10 episodes.
She won't be mad in the books though. Not in the insane sense. She'll be angry to contest against Faegon, she'll probably do way more damage than intended to King's Landing due to the stores of Wildfire, but she's not going to be crazy like she is in the show.
@@Richard_Nickerson burning innocents and becoming more violent kind of sounds crazy to me. But we disagree on this but that's cool. I'm just glad people can stop crying that it was never intended for her to do dark things or be dark
After how the series ended, well, the whole last season, honestly, I couldn't care less. The only clue I want to hear is "Oh, Winds of Winter hit the bookshelves" preferably before the old nutball croaks on us.
@@MaynardCrow Your probably right but part of me feels, whether or not, George wants to admit it, his creative meme got bent by how the cable series went. He may have wanted to give enough time for the series impact on his works to fade before returning to his baby. Perhaps, assuming Winds of Winter his a hit, it'll spur him on to completing the series. You know, there's so many stories that remain to be told in the world of Ice and Fire, I'm surprised that he hasn't subcontracted out to other writers.
@@yourseatatthetable I sure hope that's the case and he lives many more years. There could still be many more tales to tell from the era of Duncan and Egg or the Blackfyre rebellion or the Dance of Dragons. Not the age of heros though. It could only undermine their value as legends if we knew what really happened.
I can fully understand this. He can't have been thrilled on that bum rush of a final season. Time does dull the perspective and allows for a fresher eye. .
@@yourseatatthetable From what George has said a Dream of Spring is close to being finished as well. He’s pretty much been writing them simultaneously, now George’s version of nearly finished is certainly not the same as ours. But I think winds of winter is what’s taking so long, it’s where he’ll do all the heavy lifting with all the magical and prophecy elements of the story.
Gods a year after the terrible ending that was s8 I am still waiting paitently for book 6 and 7. I really hope George makes it before he finishes the books because I cant wait for the true ending of this series, that needs the ending it deserves.
I have scoured the books, and the internet, and I swear, if Martin dies before these next books are released, I will consider having read his previous books a mistake. They are setting up literally so much, by the end of the dance with dragons. My bet is on Tyrion, being the third head of the dragon. They keep mentioning the prophecy, "the dragon must always have 3 heads. He will be revealed as a Targaryan, the product of either an affair, or rape, between the mad king, Aerys, and Joanna Lannister. The incest in the bloodline of the Targaryans, could explain Tyrions form, and why his birth killed his mother. This also explains a lot of what Tywin says, to, and about Tyrion. The "you're no son of mine," line, could be quite literal. This also explains why, in the show, the dragon didn't kill Tyrion, when he stood before it. That was a huge hint, that Martin told them that part, but they left it out, because it would be too convoluted, a feat to pull off.
@@JeffPenaify no, I would regret it profoundly, actually. The show did not give closure. To have the story started, and have the show runners botch the ending, and then not get to see what happens next, would be terrible. With the episodes, I think we forget how far behind the books are. Usually we look forward to seeing our favorite characters come to life on screen; I just want to see if Tyrion really is a targaryan; if Jamies story arc is really so mishandled. The show wasn't the truth. And I've grown tired of knowing the lie.
Unless Bran is a Complete Thrall of the Children of The Forest, who are Behind EVERYTHING, him being King would be Such an Anti Climax! Boo! I'd rather have Jingle bell resurrected and become King Of The Seven Kingdoms!
I really don't think Stannis is planning on executing Theon...Totally agree Dany goes a bit over the line. Stannis and Mance will take WF but I agree with "and all the rest of it...."It would be like GRRM to have a Horn on the cover of TWOW and never see the horn in the book just like ADWD where there isn't any dance of dragons...
Love your videos Robert. I really think the burning of Shereen is going to be the most dramatic, saddest and tragic moment in the books, I think it will happen when the otherss are attacking the wall, that will be the last_stand moment for Stannis, honestly, burning Shereen to improve the weather is super cheap.
Rickon has a dark, impulsive side. Shaggy Dog has black fur and if turned into a wight would have blue eyes, just like the colour scheme of the shade of the evening tree...I wonder if he is being set up to be a wild, powerful warg that is involved with White Walkers perhaps?
This wasn't originally my idea, but I think it's worth mentioning nonetheless. In one of his TWOW prediction videos, Lucifer Means Lightbringer suggested that Melisandre could burn Shireen to raise Jon Snow (because only death can pay for life), without Stannis's consent. This is my interjection now--Shireen's dreams of a dragon coming to eat her could allude to that. Jon being Rhaegar's son makes him a dragon, so if she is burned to bring Jon back you could say his flame consumed her, a dragon ate her, etc etc.
@Zen Tao If you have questions, I'd recommend Robert's video on the topic. He explains why Jon being Rhaegar's son actually does make narrative sense, more so than any of the other paternity theories. I'd get more into it myself, but you can't do the explanation justice with a comment or two, an entire video is warranted.
** Forgive the very long comment in advance ** Great job here as always Robert. Definitely some interesting reveals came out of this book , especially the quotes and interviews with GRRM. The words from George I will take , some of which prove myself and many others' wrong about long held theories and ideas ; but from this author directly anything that comes out from him we have to take with skepticism and scrutiny. Hibberd is 100% a mouthpiece and apologist for D&D , even seems like a D&D super-fan who has been complicit and in concert D&D doing damage control for them and the show for years. Hibberd has routinely tried to cover up and change the media narrative around D&D and the show (and has done so in an obvious way since around S5) from getting uber advanced access to GoT seasons putting out mega early favorable reviews in order to get the early media spin going in D&D's favor , attempting to gloss over massive plot holes and bad decisions , to deliberately running over time at cons / panels to time out the ability for fans to ask questions , to pre-rehearsed scripted Q&A's with the cast to also get that spin going for D&D , among much more . So full disclaimer I will not buy or read this author's book or support him in anyway and anything that comes out of him regarding GoT , I and everyone else need to have a deep look into and around every corner to discern motivation and intention. And very forgivable that Robert called the author "Dan" Hibberd during the last livestream and in this vid because Hibberd is not particularly memorable as a journalist or author. And in general most of this book I would take with a massive grain of salt given the source / author's reputation with most the inclusions it would appear are to try and put D&D and the show in a better light (even if it fails to do so). That being said some interesting reveals coming out of discussions with GRRM , some of which definitely proved against some long held ideas for myself and many others. A few that stand out for me from this list was Stannis being complicit and actually deciding to burn Shireen ; I definitely did not think this would be the case , I figured Stannis would be far away when this happened and this would have been hatched up by Mel and Selyse while Stannis off dealing with the Boltons. And even though i have a somewhat ambivalent view on Stannis (who is usually polarized for or against within the fandom's opinions) GRRM seemingly confirming Stannis deciding and directing this incident was a surprise for me ; I thought that would be a line SB would not cross , a bit pragmatic and draconian / make tough decisions to accomplish a goal or task but the Massey instruction to keep going with Shireen if he died and ignoring the blowback and loss of favor this type of decision would elicit (especially in the North) definitely threw me off the case with this one. Hodor as well , seems long known this event with the "Hold the door" came from GRRM and this is more a nuanced difference that emerged here but GRRM confirming it is less literal and more about Bran warging into Hodor to defend a pass with a sword to me is more underwhelming and less a direct play on his name / the only word he says. Especially from a fear perspective it would be much more fearful and traumatizing to know you would be ripped apart and killed holding a door open or shut. Ntm I always thought with Hodor's real name in the books being Walder , i thought he would be holding open or closed a door in the Wall , Walder / "Wall door" and i like holding a door open or shut with Hodor because it likely echoes back to his likely descendant Dunk who likely did something similar at Summerhall. Not an earth shattering change this one and def curious to see exactly how it plays out. With Rickon this is definitely another one many of us could have been proved wrong about with GRRM's reveal here , I was definitely a team "Shaggydog" story for Rickon , not that his arc would meaningless but likely be built up only to be cut short and his death would prove much more impactful than his life / events. Though he is a super useful political tool for the Manderlys and / or Stannis and the Northern Lords , similar to what could happen with Edric Storm for whoever links up with ES , although Rickon is another level above that being legitimate ; but either way he could be a great political tool to get the North / Northern Houses to rally around whoever gets credit for bringing him back into the fold and could also be part of the upcoming Winterfell / Stark succession headache. Though it still could be that RS' death has more narrative impetus & impact and still match up with what GRRM is saying about him. Dany is another one here that I definitely did not think she would be going down such a dark path in the books , GRRM may have proved myself and many wrong again here , of course she would have to do more ruthless things (like every other power player in the books) and become more grey in typical GRRM fashion and perhaps from ousting fAegon and imo framing or accidental KL destruction could massively turn the realm against her so it becomes a more "you think I am a monster , well here I am / now you have one " type thing. It could still end up more that way and would be surprised despite GRRM saying so if Dany went more the S8 route. The other reveals were more in line with my and many other's thinking with LF / Sansa (didn't make sense on the show on many levels that whole situation) especially with SS being blended with Jeyne Poole's a bit on the show but why would LF give her up and put her in peril , also dragons north of the Wall / being used to destroy the Wall always felt like a show construct that seems to ignore and violate the source material (totally ignores the magical component of the Wall) , the Wight Hunt always seemed like a total show only mess. Also , the wolfpack being ignored / overlooked on the show but will be significant in the book we all already knew as massively hinted at from GRRM and King Bran has long been attributed to GRRM since S8 (despite basically no one predicting that pre-S8 , fans or creators / theorizers). But the reveals in this book that subvert and / or thwart large portions of the fandom's thinking and theories were quite interesting surprising.
@D D thank you , appreciate it , some of them definitely can be of the very long variety like this one (not all of them are this long), but glad you like some of them , thanks again.
Reading your comments about Stannis did give me a thought that "Stannis gives the order to burn Shireen" could possibly being him sending a message to Mel to burn someone with kingsblood no matter who it is (not knowing Aemon and Mance's baby are gone) and Mel taking this as license to kill Shireen. So, technically he gives the order, but it would be just like George for him to give an order not realizing what it would mean to him personally.
@@siomhe8539 that is possible as well , and would fall into the "unknown / unintended consequences" concept. I definitely think there is some room for nuance and interpretation with some of these reveals anyway ; ntm GRRM likes to build something one way only to pull the rug out from under us , leave numerous plausible scenarios that he can pivot to and he even will flat out troll and trick the fandom at times anyway. But yes I like that idea , and it would not violate the supposed reveal about Stannis. And though I am not in the staunch pro-Stannis contingent like many or those who flat out do not like him , I fall in the middle with an ambivalent view of SB ; but your idea would be much more tolerable and make more sense for Stannis' character. For me to make plans via Massey to keep pursing the throne with Shireen if Stannis dies , knowing the backlash and loss of support that burning his own daughter would elicit which as a pragmatist / get the job done type would seemingly be contrary to SB's character / what he would do. Especially considering the Northerners he is relying on rallying around him would be horrified in SB being complicit in this act. Stannis has to know and keep in mind that the North sees him as a better alternative / do the right thing type in contrast to the Boltons who the Northern Lords feel they can not support based on what they helped orchestrate against the Starks and just being a horrific regime. So a lot just does not match up for me with Stannis being more obviously involved , directing and / or choosing to burn / execute Shireen. So I like an interpretation akin to yours where it could still fit GRRM saying he is responsible but yet not so direct and obvious like the show. I see that similar to how I see Dany's arc as well , I have always been against a Dany to the dark-side arc for her but if GRRM shows us a gradual shift , sets the proper conditions and makes it plausible and perhaps have accidental / unintended circumstances (that i mentioned in my comment) factor in with Dany's turn then it is more acceptable and just about anything is more sensical than the abrupt ridiculous shift for her in the show. And yet like your idea for Stannis would still fall in line with what GRRM has supposedly indicated for the books' arcs and endgame.
I still can’t get behind Stannis authorizing the burning of Shireen as a living sacrifice, but hopefully it will make sense if it happens. The wildlings keep talking about her greyscale and how the dormant infection will wake up again, along with all of that creepy stuff Patchface says - it makes me wonder if a plague will break out and the burning will be related to that. I always thought that the Red Woman would go rogue and Shireen’s life will be the one to pay for Jon’s resurrection. I’m assuming someone or something will have to die to bring him back.
It has been too foreshadowed for Stannis to burn Shireen for it to be the red woman to do it. "What is one child to a kingdom", "a sacrifice must hurt otherwise it is no true sacrifice." GRRM has basically said a show dead character will be the main character of WoW which is most likely Stannis. My guess is he burns her to defeat the Others but still loses.
There is a massive hint about how the Others might make it through the Wall in the semi-canon mobile game called Tale of Crows. The game tells the story of the first Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Part of the magic built into the Wall that keeps it standing through the ages is dependent on the Lord Commander honoring his vows to never abandon the Wall. At the end of Dance, Jon Snow breaks his vow as a result of the Pink Letter, thus breaking the magic that bound the Wall. I'm not sure exactly to the degree of official canon the game is, but as far as I know, it's considered semi-canon in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire. If anyone else knows more, feel free to correct me.
As I always have said... Darth Danny is actually believable... You have someone that is so kind and protective... Then you cause her to lose almost everything that she cares about in a short amount of time and then still be looked down on... It would hurt her more than it would someone that didn't care as much. The reason it didn't work in the show was due to the ending being far too rushed. If we had even one more episode to see how it affected her, it would have worked better
Yeah. Lucifer Means Lightbringer has tried to debunk Dany’s turn to the dark side. But I think it will definitely happen, only much more believably than we got in the show. She’s made some questionable choices since exiling Jorah, imo. That guy was her strong right hand. He betrayed the Iron Throne for Dany, not the other way around. And he’s cleverer than Barristan, who is a badass, just in a different way. Then again, she also seems to see some of her mistakes when she’s hungry and eating hallucinogens after Drogon flies her to the wilderness. I wouldn’t mind not seeing her turn completely to the dark. Maybe just become more gray of a character than before. What will Dany find when she returns to Mereen? Barristan dead? A dragon being controlled by Victarion? A plague-ridden city? What will she have to go thru just to get away from the Dothraki? GRRM did say some time ago that one of his characters will have a Walter White type arc. After seeing the show, all signs point to Dany.
All they had to do is have an episode where Dany finds out all of her gains in Esteros were erased, and all faithful to her have been executed. They could have had 100,000 dead... Including Dario. Hell, have her receive Dario's head in a box, sent to her by the slavers. They should have left Misandai behind in Mereen too, and then had her head delivered as well. They could have even had Cercei involved somehow, maybe using the Iron Bank's loan to get the Golden company to help take back Mereen, or something. Something like this, anything, could have helped sell her change to us better.
@agnat86 We're not getting two fire-obsessed Mad Queens. No, Dany's not turning to the dark side. And what morally grey things have she been doing? Killing the masters? They were SLAVERS! Keep in mind that the books never brings up the possibility that some of them might have been innocent.
You have an amazing eye, ear, mind for detail. I've read the books I don't even know how many times, five or six times, and I'll miss things every single time that you will point out later. It's impressive. Almost as impressive as GRRM and his ability to write this stuff. I'm in the process of watching all your videos, and they shed light on many concepts that I am just not bright enough to catch. So thank you for that and for sharing your findings with those of us who are just regular humans
The finish with Bran on the Throne was the worst thing about the abysmal last 4 seasons of the show, and they were all really bad. I thought they were just trolling the fans with it. Surely Martin will learn the lesson and not burn his legacy to the ground. If he really intends that ending, it would be better if he just stopped now while he is ahead and let fan fiction take up the fallen banner. If that's the ending, then I for one will simply block out the fact that it existed, like season 8 of GoT, Highlander 2, later seasons of MASH, etc.
I agree, and I have a bad feeling that GRRM has already burnt his credits. GOT will never be as good as LOR. Coz the latter has a fit theme to stop and destroy dark magic. However Martin is still playing with different magics and leads to chaos in his own making and unreasonable plot turns.
The way the ending was posed in the show made it hint at more of a horror book ending, with Bran having been sort of taken over/replaced by non-human entities through the weirwoods, and then made a King. That leaves him ruling over humanity as an omnicient being without the humans realizing that he has this powers. Given that he can easily check what people are doing and discussing outside of his presence, and potentially do things like control animals to kill him, mounting a challenge to his rule would be anywhere from enormously difficult to impossible. This may not be how the books spin it, but it's worth noting that GRRM has spent much of his career as a writer of scifi/horror hybrids, and a big fan of Lovecraft, so the idea that his saga ends with humanity unknowingly under the influence of an all-knowing non-human power with the ability to influence them through their dreams wouldn't exactly be wildly out of character for the author.
I cannot see how continually adding new characters in the 4th book is going to help in the finishing of the novels. Makes it more and more complicated as well as harder to bring it all together in the end.
I just hate the idea of Bran becoming King!!! Idky but I absolutely hate that idea. I was hoping for someone less obvious or expected like Jaime or the Evil Demon Dwarf. I dont feel a Stark should be King of the seven kingdoms!!!
Watch Tony Teflon explanation of why it is important for Bran to be the king. In short, Children of the Forest are warging his body, and finally, through Bran, control the Westeros again. Their lives are long, and they plan a long game, which they in the end win. True bittersweet end for the Saga.
@@StankoAx it would’ve been cool if any of this was explained in the show. Personally I agree with this theory and I think that GRRM will do something similar if Bran becomes king in the books as well. No way there’s no supernatural stuff involved and it’s just a council randomly choosing him.
@@federicovolpe3389 Show is merely a sketch compared to the book series. Unfortunately. There won't be any stupid council wherein 10 min of the worth of screen time the whole story ends.
The technical difficulties of making the CGI direwolves was too much... but we had real white walkers and dragons, so it's lucky on that account... ... damn, been over a year and I'm still extremely salty over how the direwolves were treated.
Dire wolves are basically just big wolves. The human brain would see right through a CGI wolf bc we are familiar with what they look like. It’s be a bit of the uncanny valley effect. Dragons and White Walkers are fictional. They don’t exist in our world. It’s easier to believe it bc we have never seen them. So yea CGI wolves are hard to do right. Plus working with real wolves isn’t the most practical thing to do.
Using perspective to change the apparent size of an object is something those hacks would have learned if they'd actually gone to film school. Hel, all they'd need to do is watch a behind the scenes of Lord of the Rings... I seem to know more about it than the duo of fuckwit and moron, and I've never even set foot on a film set.
I don't get, why you critisize Emilia Clarke for her portrayal of Dany. Clearly she had no idea of what the show runners were up to with her character. She simply had the wrong understanding of Daenerys and D&D missed to tell her, what her character was going to be. If she had known, she could have given us a much more convincing turn to evil. In the end it is the fault of the directors if they do not manage to convince their actors into playing these characters the way they are meant to. Over all she did a fine job acting. She is not the greatest actress, but neither is she a bad actress. With the right direction given, I am sure, she'd have done a better job.
It's not the acting that's the problem, it's the writing. Everything she did in the show is perfectly reasonable up to King's Landing, and there's possibilities of even THAT being reasonable. Does she act dark? Sure, no one would argue with that. Does she act like she's going insane? No, never, and that is the problem
Hi Robert, Just wanted to say thank you for all your videos and passion. Your channel gave me the strenght to buy and read the books. This is such an amazing universe, I hope that Martin will be able to finish it the way he wants. Regards from France and of course I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.
Finally the debate can be settled that Stannis WILL burn Shireen. I can't believe people still try and angrily refute this with the "shes his one heir and he loves her dearly" arguments when the books heavily signpost that this is the trajectory his characters arc is heading towards, what with him being a false Azor Ahai and all. The circumstances will obviously be vastly different to the BS with the Boltons that the show have us, but he will burn her in an attempt to end the new long night. He will defeat the Bolton's, face down the Others at Winterfell and burn Shireen after realising the iron throne is meaningless when the entire fate of the living is at stake. For the record I utterly, angrily disagree with this guys assessment that Stannis will still burn his daughter to defeat the fucking Bolton's and because of the weather. Fuck that. Hes been starving in the cold for ages and still eont allow any burnings apart from criminals. "I'll have no more burnings. Pray harder". You think hes going to go from that to giving his daughter to the flames, when shes fucking miles away at Castle Black? No way in hell. Shireen will not die until the Others breach the wall and Stannis has linked up with Melisandre and his family after taking Winterfell. Not because of the weather LMAO
Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon is basically a propaganda book written by a D&D promoter to rewrite history. This is not a joke or mean spirited comment, James Hibberd is D&D preferred "interviewer" from the Hollywood Reporter and has handled most of the show's promotional material at ComicCon. He infamously coached, or at least contributed, the cast to answer pre-selected questions with rehearsed answers at the Season 8 Q&A so it would drag on long enough to avoid audience questions. While I do not doubt there is some sincerely or useful notes in this book, it's primary purpose is to revise history so that way the show's latter seasons, and D&D by extension, look better by comparison.
I love that they apparently thought of the dragon/wall plan when the dragons were too small to be used in that way but also thought introducing a better concept would have been too much 🙃
Bran ends up being king in the books? I don't mind this as I can imagine Bran (if Blood Raven does help humanity) being the leader of humanity's stand against the Others. I just wasn't happy with how the show made it happen.
@@johngo3715 Tyrion's speech sucked. I actually disagree with most fans saying Bran's personal story sucks being a reason that the speech sucks, I know Tyrion means it in that Bran knows all stories. The speech just sucked on its own.
It was the writers pleasuring themselves and making us al watch. The whole “stories are all that matter and who has the best story blah blah blah, bran is the writer of the show we’ve been watching”... just about the most obvious self congratulations you’ll see anywhere
I wasn't that shocked about Danny's turn but I also binged 7 seasons and 3 episodes in two weeks to catch up, so it was easier for me to make the connections as a Binger.
Of everything, I hope he changes the King Bran. I think most people agreed that it was a terrible idea. A character who has no interest whatsoever in anything is a terrible king. Especially one who doesn't seem to be interested in fathering children, which would really cause problems when he dies. If anything in the Game of Thrones universe has been shown, it's that without clear succession, war comes. And so to have King Bran after all the turmoil basically rooted in succession would be terrible.
I hope Danny's dark turn isn't complete. Like, she gets overtaken by her need for fire and blood and does dark things, but comes back to herself in some way and helps win the bittersweet ending. She can end broken or dead in response to her actions. But don't just have turn mad queen. Where's the heart in conflict with itself in that
In ADwD, Val tells Jon Snow that Melisandre knew he was swapping the babies and that it suited her purposes. Could the little Monster’s blood be of some value to her? There is also the vision Dany has about a shadow dragon, which sounds to me like the only kind of dragon Melisandre could summon. I think that Shireen might be sacrificed to summon the shadow dragon and I wonder if little Monster might be sacrificed to bring back Jon Snow.
Daenary's turn wasn't nessecary the issue, it was more the journey on how she got there. How rushed and jarring it is, if George can take his time and give enough credence to the turn I believe it could be good.
In Dany's most recent chapter, When she's alone in the dathraki sea sick and tired -- Not only do we get the foreshadowing of quathe reminding her what she is of fire and blood, But also We get some more nuanced foreshadowing showing her nature and showing her inability to create things in a showing her a Nate skill a destroying thing. When she tries to create a hat she fails, When she is covered in bugs she isn't freaked out she kills them with a precision and with a brutality, swiftly and exactly.
that boy is a Summer King. And he named his wolf Summer immediately after seeing all that winter crap in his dream, ha. But seriously, seems like a lot of foreshadowing for that is already in the first couple Bran chapters
The whole idea of getting a wight to convince Cersei is ridiculous anyway. They have two wights in the ice cells at Castle Black already. If D&D hadn't cut the Aegon plot or made Euron a complete idiot they would have had two other and better routes for another "Dance of the Dragons" without the wasted north of the wall scene. And if they had followed through on Sam's horn, they could have found a way to bring down the wall (regardless of whether that's what that horn actually did). D&D basically just proved they are not writers (also that they might not have even read the books since "looking at the pieces they had to bring down the wall" would have necessarily included that big horn Jon and Sam found way back during the Great Ranging and the horn of Joramun that Mance and Ygritte are so focused on is that piece right there. My guess is they read fan forums and that is the only way they knew the answer to George's question about Jon's mum. They are adapters of someone else's writing and if they have no source material, they just do stupid human tricks that they think might look impressive on screen. They have no concept of the idea of plot, structure, or continuity...or the Aristotelian unities.
I don't think Robb's will would hold up because Robb (as well as Sansa) is not a Stark but a Baelish. The only Stark children are Jon (although technically a Targaryan), Bran, Arya, and Rickon. - Robb and Sansa look like their mother while Starks generally have similar features and even Jon looks like a Stark despite his Targaryan blood - They aren't wargs (or at least we have no evidence that they are as we never read anything from Robb's point of view and Sansa's direwolf dies before any of the children learn to warg) - The timeline matches up, although there are certainly details we don't know about. My guess at the timeline is: Petyr tells Brandon that Lyanna was kidnapped knowing that Brandon will be killed. Between that moment and when Catelyn is wed to Ned, Petyr manages to impregnate Catelyn (my guess is by convincing her that Ned is a bad man and will hurt her if she doesn't "practice" [if I remember correctly, she was scared of the quiet Ned whom she had never met], or by drugging). Cat getting pregnant might even be part of the reason the marriage to Ned was rushed so much--that, and the war obviously. Perhaps her father found out and his woes are for Cat, not Lyssa. Ned goes off to war and comes back with Jon, who he claims is his bastard. Cat was very bothered by this and it's the perfect time for Petyr to weasel his way back in. Perhaps Cat hates Jon so much because he existence reminds he of her own unfaithfulness? Petyr also says he slept with both Catelyn and Lyssa. We find out later that he has slept with Lyssa. Half lying or fully telling the truth? Petyr even has Sansa pretending to be his bastard child and what better way for a book to hide that she's really his bastard by having her pretend to be his bastard? The plot is massively driven by children: Jaime and Cersei's, Rhaegar and Lyanna's, Robert's bastards, etc. Hell, the whites were created by the children of the forest.
Im sorry but your theory is incorrect. Baelish was kicked out of Riverrun by the time Brandon left to find Rhaegar. Lord Hoster Tully kicked him out after the duel for Cat's hand and barred from returning. He was not present at Ned and Cat's wedding. Nor for Lysa and John Arryn. He may have slept with Lysa but did not sleep with Cat. (She confirms this) Cat does not see Littlefinger from the time he's kicked out of Riverrun until she meets him in King's Landing. (She herself says so) Robb was born at Riverrun 9 months after Cat and Ned's wedding - which happened hurriedly not because Cat was pregnant, but to secure House Tully against The Iron Throne. (Houses Stark and Arryn married House Tully to form a core group of Robert's Rebellion ) Sansa was born at Winterfell about 4 years later. Littlefinger was in King's Landing. Also, its mentioned several times that Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon all favour House Tully's look with only Arya being more in line with House Stark features - They're all Ned's kids. What Littlefinger did, perhaps, as revenge for losing against Brandon, was tell him that his sister had been kidnapped and raped - how he came upon this information is as yet unknown. But once he saw how information wielded in such a matter could cause chaos and allow him a potential opening into things (he may have thought "I'll have Brandon killed another way and get Cat" ) led to him set things in motion years later after getting in a better societal position. And used Lysa's unrequited love to his advantage to start the war between Stark & Lannister.
@Gabriel Pinto I'm sure Baelish wouldn't have announced his return to Riverrun after getting forcibly removed. Also, I don't think Cat is a reliable source. I think there's some mental instability in her family considering Lyssa is crazy and Cat herself becomes Lady Stoneheart (I think that's the name). I might be mistaken about which stark kids resemble which parent, but favoring Tulley more than Stark isn't proof that Robb and Sansa aren't Petyr's.
Future historians and anthropologists will study the phenomena that was GoT before this book comes out (which implies that if it does, it will then of course be written by someone else, bearing the George R. R Martin pseudonym).
I am starting to doubt that George R.R. Martin can fit all the remaining story into two books. I mean, considering the amount of story told in A Dance with Dragons (rather few, in my opinion), a very large book... Isn't it possible that he will need three books to finish the entire story?
To be honest, I did not give a shit when the queen burned the Tarly traitors. Tyrion had done that a hundred fold at the Blackwater and nobody even flinched :/
@John Trevolter When no one tells you how you should proceed is easy not to flaunt moral values :/ Imagine an advisor telling the Acting Hand "yo, Tyrion, we should fight Stannis with swordsmen, be a total gangstah, mate". Also, the Tarly traitos were not burned simply because they thought differently. No, they destroyed a loyal House to the queen. Me being slaughtered by my fellow neighbours, I would like my queen to obliterate the traitors.
@@Kriegerdammerung What nonsense is this.....That was battle when tyrion burned the blackwater....And no one will argue when dany burned jaime's army, because that was battle too. But to burn captured enemy who was loyal to throne besides a great lord and greatest battle commander in all the 7 kingdoms with his son without thinking what this action cost her is madness. Tarly should have been made captive in cell as tyrion suggested or beheaded by proper headsmen as custom decreed. But, NOO!!! The girl wanted to be a dragon.
@@manishkumardivekar4836 Then why Tarly did not arrest Cersei? I mean, she burned innocent people, the High Septon, the heir apparent of House Tyrell, the queen... all to avoid a trial of the gods. "No, let's support that murderer, the Kingslayer vouches for her". I'm sorry, lass, Randyll Tarly reaped what he sowed: fire and blood :/
@@Kriegerdammerung the same reason why Tyrion, unsallied and dhothrki stood beside dany even after her injustice, Loyalty to their Queen... Stop calling tarly and the rest who supported cersei traitors. Robert baratheon won the crown by the law of combat. He defeated rheagar in fair battle and received submission of his troops...
@John Trevolter Daenerys - unlike the rest of the gang - did not forget she lived in feudalism, you know? Any king was a dictator, democracy is for the worker unions of 1920s (And we are talking about our planet). Also, are we talking the same Daenerys who liberated THOUSANDS of slaves? but "liberated" for real, not like the US army saying. She also exacted justice by pinning wise masters to cruxes. She was the finest queen ever to live in that planet.
"Apperantly the technical difficulties for bringing grown Direwolves to life were quite significant." Now I'm no expert on special effects, but you can make a giant flying dragon look realistic but making a dog look bigger than it is was too hard??? Edit: spelling mistakes.
As much miss I enjoyed the hold the door episode in S6 I wasnt fussed about the fact that there was a door in BR cave !!! Its a cave ffs why on gods earth would it the cave have a door in there unbelievable
In Skagos there are purely first man people aren't there? And as an island they would have been save during the long night, so there might also be some answers to be found...
spent past month listing to books as i go to bed....has made me love the story even more... last night i had to stop and roll me one as i knew it was cathelin's red wedding chapter
Hi In Deep Geek, Regarding Shireen, in ADWD Jon has a conversation with Val after she returns from finding Thormund, Val sees Shireen and mentions that she does not want Shireen to be near the baby and that she is dead, Jon says something like Grayscale can be stopped in children and Val answers that "You know nothing, Jon Snow" This whole exchange left me certain that Shireen will have to die, (why not burn??) maybe as the Grayscale flare up again, or perhaps as a compromise with the wildlings, just like the wildlings had to burn weirwood after the battle at the wall.
And I say once again that Dani did not go dark in the later seasons. She did nothing that other characters have done. Killed no more than the Starks. .No darker than Jon Snow. The people of Westeros had every chance to leave but the stuck with Cerci.
The question for me is: is it that Bran ACTUALLY becomes king? Or in the books, is it symbolism that the Children basically won and are indirectly in control of the king
JustSomeGuyOnTheNet Exactly. But also there just seems to be better options for king than Bran, like Jaime. But I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
11:50 - I mean, who is Littlefinger actually going to promise to Harry? Sansa Stark of Winterfell? Or Alayne Baelish, legitimized bastard of House Baelish, heir to Harrenhall and the Riverlands? Maybe that's why Littlefinger thought he needed a high title to marry Lysa in the first place. Not to make himself suitable to marry but more to make a theoretical legitimized bastard daughter suitable to marry off once he killed Lysa. And since Alayne Baelish doesn't actually exist as a person potentially Littlefinger could marry her off, get whatever he wants from Harry the Heir and then as soon as he's gotten what he wanted have Sansa wash her hair and become Sansa once again. There would be no annulment (for which he'd need the High Septon's permission) or anything like that necessary to end the marriage because the marriage wouldn't ever have been legally binding since it didn't happen between Harry and a person who actually exists. So this allows Littlefinger to trade an Alayne marriage for whatever he wants from Harry while at the same time keeping Sansa for himself.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/indeepgeek10201
Show Theon may have gotten Hodor's book death and maybe it's the door to crypts of WF.
"Please go support your local book stores, they REALLY need it. However, I do have an Amazon affiliates link in the description to support ME because I'm not actually concerned about the bookstores."
@@Richard_Nickerson What an ignorant comment. He puts a lot of time and effort into these videos. Nobody is forcing you to click the affiliate links. TH-camrs are trying to make a living like anyone else. I see you have a koala in your photo. If you ever visit Australia please get in touch with me.
Done. Thanks for your hard work mate.
@@brent.johnson
No, that's not ignorant at all. It's completely within reason to point out that he goes from saying support local bookshops because they really need it to support Amazon and me instead in basically the same breath. What's ignorant is blindly defending him against such an observation. Amazon is literally the entity that needs the least support during this pandemic.
Edit: And why? You wanna beat me up or something? 🙄 My profile picture is the random one Google assigned to me.
books about the book are coming out before the book.
Anything for a dollar
@@210SAi You wasted such a potenial. And don't say it like it's wrong.
I'm writing a Book about this phenomenon.
Videos about books about books that *might* come out
Actual books won't come out
Personally I can’t wait for the release of “History of the lords of the reach vol 8” in 2038 to give more fun hints about what will be in Winds of Winter. Much more fun than getting to actually read it.
🤣. I shouldn’t laugh because you’re probably right but LOL!
We have waited long enough
He should just admit he made such a mess of the story he won’t bother to finish it ever
There's either one of two outcomes.
1. He's finished winds and is actually working on dream to release them close to one another.
2. (And more likely) he's tired of writing it and won't ever finish or pass it off to another author with all his notes.
@@EL-ISS very plausible tbh; love idea of him drawing out TWoW because he's actually writing ADoS (that last book will still be ATLEAST 5yrs+ out from TWoW's release).
Hahahaha Hahahaha Hahahaha.
That quote from Dan Wies is a perfect example of why their writing was so shitty. He started with the end goal, he wanted the dragon to knock down the wall, then he had to come up with some excuse for why it was up north.
So, as with other times, he had characters acting in stupid ways and doing stupid things because all he his focus was on the end goal rather than making sure the WHOLE story was good and made sense.
Yes. You have to have the characters do exactly what they would do in any given scene. You can't force them to go one way or another if it is not something they would believably do. They have no clue how to do this.
But these are the guys who wrote X-men Origins: Wolverine, after all. We should have known what to expect from the beginning.
Yes and no. The methodology of having an established endpoint and, then, creating the means by which the endpoint is achieved is how many people write. Dumb&Dumber's problem lay specifically in the execution. They were both lazy, arrogant, and are, honestly, hacks when it comes to writing. They were given the greenlight by HBO and, essentially, a blank check to make the final season(s) of the show. Instead of letting GoT end at a natural pace or handing the project off to a competent someone who cares about it, they rushed it terribly to go make money with Disney on a Star Wars project. So, because they are enormous assholes that only care about money, they butchered the last 3ish seasons and just didn't care or listen.
@@americanodude The point I'm trying to make is that the end goal was ALL they cared about.
I understand that some writers have an end goal in mind but they ALSO take care to make sure that the whole story makes sense and has the characters making logical choices that lead up to that end goal.
Dumb and dumber don't have a clue how to write a good story, so in order to force that end goal they had characters doing things that made no sense.
I'm sure there were many ways to get to that point without that suicide squad plan, you really have to be on a different level of stupidness to write that shit.
exactly, they did this for mad queen twist too. they destroyed all characters around Daenerys include herself for Mad Queen story line. the problem is their end goal wasn't fit on characters and story so they turned them into stupid characters.
Thank you. My hatred for the writers was starting to ebb a tad. I honestly appreciate you restoking the flame.
Lol
It's hard to maintain peak emotional intensity. Pace yourself. And don't worry that the fires of raging antipathy re: D&D may eventually burn out. I see as more like the Others - generally lingering below the surface but nonetheless ready to re-emerge when suitably provoked. The Hate remembers.
It's funny how Dany's most violent actions are always thrown out there as indicators of her dormant darkness. Yet ALL of her merciful actions are ignored and the fact that the actions that were violent were a response to threats ignored too.
The "cold stare" as her brother is killed bugs me to no end. You seem to forget this loving line of dialogue from Vyseris:
"I would let his whole tribe rape you, all 40,000 of his men and their horses too if that's what it took..."
What a loving brother...
And yet, she DOES regret it.
But no, she has been always evil. Yet Arya kills and kills and kills and the response is always "you go girl!"
@Zen Tao We really don't know what exactly happened after the sack of kings landing and the events of the 1st book. Viserys was always abusive towards Dany and saw her as a tool more than a sister. Sure when he's faced with death he tries to play the loving, regretful brother but remember his last action is to threaten Dany's unborn child. At that point Dany has no choice but to stand by while Drogo murders him. If she had pleaded for his life she would have been deemed weak and unworthy of delivering "the stallion who mounts the world". Her own life and her son's would have been endangered.
@D D That's a good point. The show made it so much worse by giving us the "coin flip" theory. Wich said a Targ is either born crazy or not...
@@fernandosimon5621 coin flip theory was in the books too.. The Queen of Thorns Olena Tyrell says it when talking to Sansa about marriages and recalls her own betrothal one of which was to a Targaryen. She says it's a common saying amongst the small folk.
Omg, the show has made me despise Arya. I lost it when they has Arya kill the NK, and not in a good way.
Tell themmmmmm
The theory of Hodor dying with sword in hand with Bran riding his mind would be doubly tragic; it would allow Bran to act out his stolen dreams of being the knight in shining armour, and horribly confront him with what the reality is like.
Also notable that this would be happening while Bran is simultaneously violating Hodor terribly by warging him (which is hugely taboo among wargs) and effectively painfully murdering Hodor as well in the present, while also managing to simultaneously reveal that Bran is the person who (however unintentionally) largely destroyed Hodor's mind in the past and left him unable to lead a normal life any time past his early childhood. It also probably shouldn't be forgotten that the end result for Hodor is that he's being abandoned by Bran and Meera, probably to die but be left in a physical condition good enough that there's no reason the Others couldn't/wouldn't turn him into a wight and use him the same way Bran had been using him. That's a lot of bad to pack into one scene; even Ramsey would probably be impressed.
Isn't there a theory that bran warged in to the knight of the laughing tree where he won the tournament battle to win back Howland reeds pride??
Bran wanted to be a kingsgaurd he will wield the sword of a legendary lc of the kingsguard(aemon the dragonknight) through a descendant of a legendary lc of the kingsguard(ser duncan the tall)
@@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218 There probably is but it's far more likely to be Lyanna Stark than Bran.
The issue with Dany *wasn't* that she went dark--there are hints of that throughout the books, so book readers should have had an idea that it was coming. The issue most of us have is with how quickly Dany went dark. It wasn't written well and it made the character come across as, frankly, psychotic. The writers and showrunners expected us to believe that Dany could lose everything and use that as a springboard to 'greatness' but that when her best friend and her primary protector--who, incidentally, led her *away from* behaving like her father the "mad King"--were lost, she'd suddenly snap and go on a fiery bloody rampage against the citizens.
The writers and showrunners had a responsibility to show her descent into madness and they failed to do that. Clarke's acting was never the problem. She did a great job with what they gave her. The problem is that the writers weren't worth a damn. They had little concern for character development or plot development once they reached a point that Martin was no longer active with the show. You can clearly see where Martin's direct advising stopped on the show because of the huge difference in dialog quality and because the very things that made these characters human and, on some level, relatable went with him. Tyrion magically became an idiot, Sansa magically became Cersei junior (in the books, her compassion--even for enemies--is plainly evident. It actually comes across as a plot point to me because of how it's not glossed over. She is, for all intents and purposes, the anti-Dany in that, at least to this point in the books, she doesn't change and become cold or ruthless), Cersei became a caricature (in the books, you can at least tell that her one redeeming quality is her love for her children. Everything Cersei did was with her children in mind. Show Cersei--through no fault of Lena Headey's--was just a literal caricature of book Cersei...and not a very good one at that once Martin wasn't on set anymore.
Benioff and Weiss failed Martin, they failed the cast, and they failed the fans.
Exactly. People say we should know that this was bound to happen but they don't realise that we're mad because they made it into a clusterfuck. The writing was terrible not the ending . Bran being king was more of a problem due to the fact that it was inconsistent to his character and that they had assassinated brans character in the show
Yeah Dany going crazy in the show was just a "we need this to happen so make it happen" nonsense. Her reason in the show were just so shallow and weak. Personally while reading the books I was routing for Mad Queen Dany to happen, so I don't dislike that it happened just that there was no justification for it in show.
Dany's show "madness" was because of:
- Her advisors thought she was slipping because she wouldn't listen to them and was short tempered with them. Her advisors whose plans continually failed and set her back by losing supplies and troops (not really a big deal in the show though because respawn and what not). So they betray her (or plan to) because they won't listen to their awful worthless advice.
- The "mean girl" plot of Winterfell was just embarrassing to even watch. Sansa being a catty bitch with middle school drama was... ugh. Dany puts her claim for the throne on hold to bring her army North to save the realm and Winterfell. In doing so she sacrifices her entire army to help (again except for respawn and nothing actually having a meaningful impact). And Arya and Sansa still despise her and claim she is untrustworthy because... Sansa is like "the smartest person I know" while behaving like nothing other than an ignorant child with nothing useful or beneficial to actually add to any situation. That coming from someone who book Sansa is one of my favorite characters.
- She finally snaps and goes crazy once the battle is over and Kings Landing and the Lannister's surrendered. I mean the stupidity of that is just self explanatory.
And I agree about Clarke's acting. In fact I think season 8 had her best acting of the whole series, just a shame D&D were being praised for the mediocrity for years so HBO never stepped in to make them hire competent writers. Season 8 delivered exactly what seasons 5-7 were building to.
I can't really see her madness from the books, all I can see is naiveness , lack of experiences and lack of knowledge from the past of House Targaryen and how her father and brother lost the control of the kingdom , she was poorly educated by Viserys and now she has a lot of power in her hands...I really don't see how different she is from Robb or Jon ( after he became Lord Commandant ) , they just don't have the madness factor on their equations . Another example comes from Arianne Martell with her plan to crown Myrcella and her bitterness towards her father, when she didn't know he had great plans for her, her actions could have started a war in Dorne , maybe they still will if Cersei gets her power back somehow . What I really feel when I read Dany's chapters or any other chapter from young characters is that youth and inexperience is a major cause for mistakes especially when it comes to rule . See how Catelyn, Ned, Tyrion , Davos, Jaime , even Jon Connington and Barristan on their pov's they aways know what's really going on and their predictions are always certain, because they all have experience and knowledge .
@@marwanali4878 Bran's crowning actually makes a lot of sense to me. The show's writing to get people there ("...stories! And who has a better story than Bran the Broken?") was utter nonsensical shit, but the entire series (books, not show) gives us clues about it when it talks about the madness that runs through the Targaryen dynasty, the terrible leadership of some the main houses (Targaryen, Baratheon, Lannister), shows the tyranny of the church as head of state (the faith of the Seven, the High Sparrow and his faith militant standing in for the Catholic church and, in the Wars of the Roses upon which ASoIaF/GoT is based, the eventual break of the royal house from the Catholic church), and gives a pretty clear indication of what Martin, as an author, thinks makes a good ruler: someone who is calm, comfortable in the authority they wield (you will never hear Bran say "I am the KING!" because he doesn't feel a need to remind anyone of his power), someone who isn't swayed by emotion--a dispassionate leader who understands emotion but who doesn't rule according to feelings and whims, someone who fully understands the history, learns the lessons of history, and whose views are based on what is good for every person (the king they need, though not necessarily the king they want or even deserve) and even the world in which they live.
Let's be honest: even a legitimized Baratheon bastard has Targaryen blood, and as we saw in both Viserys and Danaerys, blood will tell. The only Lannister remotely acceptable to a thinking person as a ruler would be Tyrion--but he's a dwarf with a bad reputation from a family with an atrocious reputation, and he has made some mistakes even with his intelligence and wisdom. Jon would no more make a good king than his uncle Eddard--they're both victims of their own rigid honor, and both are thoroughly inflexible (and I say this as a member of Team Stark) when a question puts them in a position to have to be flexible for the good of the people. And the Martells have always been fairly separate from the Realm, so it's difficult to believe that a Martell is even a possibility.
Martin's been laying breadcrumbs on the trail of King Bran since the beginning. Sadly, the show's writers lack Martin's talent (and patience), so "Bran the Broken's ah-may-zing *story* " is what they left us with--and left us all very confused and pretty angry about how badly it was botched.
@Thyme and Oregano dumb point, humans can change. tyrion at the start of the books is all about standing up for the underdogs, shielding the innocent, and now at the current point in the books he fantasizes about how much he wants to rape and kill cersei after what she did to him. and it's completely believable.
people totally eat up redemption arcs, but call descension arcs unrealistic and bad writing. people can get worse in their morals, especially during points in time when they're the most impressionable, and dany is a teenage girl. in the books, her entire arc in meereen is about the constant struggle she faces with the clashing identities of being a ruler and being a conqueror. surprise surprise, it ends with her realizing that who she is at her core is "fire and blood," a targaryen, and a conqueror. just like the first targaryen conqueror, who won the seven kingdoms by burning hundreds of thousands of men alive in dragonfire until they couldn't mount any form of resistance. to deny the path her character is going at this point is just being silly. you're allowed to like characters who aren't good people, i like daenerys, i think she's a wonderfully written and enjoyable character, but i can also recognize that she's spent her whole life learning about her heritage from a violence-prone psychopath. no normal person would be walking out of that morally pure.
I think George is telling the truth when he writes that the past can't be changed. However, that's only half the story.
You can't change things because those things have already happened, but the 'time traveller' can be the cause of why they happened.
We saw that with Hodor. When Bran warged into him in the past he didn't change anything, he was just the cause of why Hodor is the way he has always been.
What will happen has happened, and what has happened will happen.
Emilia Clarke was told she would kill civilians but only accidentally because dragon fire ignites wild fire. This was what she believed she had filmed. The showrunners didn't even tell her afterwards, knowing she would be attending a screening party for fans months later. Clarke said she felt so sick seeing what had been done that she couldn't eat anything at the dinner.
Do you remember which interview this came from?
(commenting for notifications)
Source?
.
Update???
Dany burning Kings Landing, which has been talked about for years by the book fans, is less of a problem of it actually happening rather than how it was handled. I imagine in the books it may feel more like a tragedy with a slow ramp up. In the show it left you befuddled, and maybe feeling like character assassination. She went crazy over the most flimsy of reasons in 2 episodes. They blew it in other words.
And sorry, all those brutal things she had done before were consistent with the world she was in. Especially when taking into account the sociopathic nature of Arya. I dont see anyone asking why she got this happy ending and not one of a complete lunatic murdering rampage ending. Remember, she murdered someone, dismembered them, and cooked them. This Texas Chainsaw Massacre territory. Oh, and then she murdered an entire House whether they were innocent or otherwise - with no repercussions of course. But Arya was never consistent after season 4. She was seemingly normal and got a fairly happy ending. Ridiculous.
Main problem the show had with that particular arc is that far to much was going on.
You had dany burning king's landing, Jon trying to maintain peace after the lannisters surrendered, Arya planning to assassinate cersei, Jaime going to save cersei, the hound going to kill the mountain, euron trying to kill Jaime... I could go on.
Far to much to cram into a single episode, should have been fleshed out over a few episodes; first episode have all the pieces move into place; armies arriving, dialogue explaining each characters exposition, and perhaps end with Danny torching the ships.
Beginning of the next episode have the golden company being wiped out, skirmishes with lannisters, and Jaime fighting euron, Arya and the hound moving through the city
Third episode; danys turn and torching king's landing, mountain and hound deaths and then of course cersei and Jaime deaths.
They just crammed FAR to much in
Oh my god, they mishandled Arya so much.
And where the hell are the faceless men after she takes off? They just let her go, like that? No consequences? Yeah right.
@@inthefade yeah I found that odd that she had no consequences. She went blind from using a face and not being no one. When she returns to Westeros she becomes Arya again, ask why doesn't she go blind? The story ending with her going blind would be fair imo.
@@inthefade They ask for a life, she paid them; either hers or the assassin sent to kill her would do.
@@dekuuchiha9990 Going blind wasn't a punishment it was training. Blind fighting ninja training trope hides the secret Faceless Men's masks have no eyeholes.
I think it will be Selyse , not Stannis, who authorises/encourages Shireen's burning, as she is the religious fanatic
Good call.
And the fact that Stannis is awesome
Yes I always had a problem with them saying they did this in the show because it's going to happen in the books. No way book Stannis would do this... but in the books Stannis isn't there. Between Selyse, mel and the wildlings who fear her grayscale... poor shireen doesn't stand a chance!
Martin's already said that Stannis will burn Shireen.
If Stannis mistakingly thinks that it’ll save the kingdom he might do it
I think the real issue with Dany's arc on the show, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett, was that she went from A to Z without going through the rest of the alphabet, and that's why so many people were shocked. Even on the show there were always hints that she could go down that path, but in the end the path felt bypassed by a shortcut.
As for Bran, I'm not sure he even reached A on the show, just turned up at Z. Here's hoping it makes sense!
There's some evidence it was decided as late as post-production. There are storyboards and quotes from effects guys that it was originally planned to be wildfire explosions
Well apparently their idea of a character gradually turning darker is just "no emotion ever lol" so it's no wonder it felt that way.
@@carlrood4457 I totally agree it was decided late and they way they did it made no sense and it left a very bitter taste for most of us fans now obviously GRRM does it in the books it should be laid out but like you said it was wildfire explosions that cause it not Dany going batshit crazy trying to kill innocent people
BranBot never even graduated from kindergarten.
The wildfire idea is much more sensible. But coz they made cersei blow up the sept with wildfire, they probably couldn’t use that
Plot twist - Hi everyone. This is Robert of house Baratheon.
Long may he reign!
I think it would go a little bit more like "Greetings, you bastards!". 😊
“Come, bow ya shits!”
*record scratch* you may wondering how I got here
nah Robert Baratheon is dead, a boar got him, this is Robert Arryn, Lord of the Eyrie, Lord Paramount and Defender of the Vale, Warden of the East...he grew up
When that little gray scale baby girl is killed my tears will stain that page of the book
An In Deep Geek upload? I knew today was going to be a great day! Thanks for the content Rob!
Facts! I do a happy dance every time he uploads a video!
Daenerys becoming a tyrant isn’t surprising. In the beginning of the books, her basic desire was only to go home and she dreamed of the house with the red door. The tragedy is that she has no home and never will. She could’ve had one with Drogo and their child, but when Viserys was killed and her basic desire switched to his (taking the iron throne back), she lost that home. Walking viserys’ path instead of her own is leading her to a tragic fall.
Sword wielding Hodor should be even more epic. All men must cry.
I think Hodor in Show is great .But i see george version neither
Valar Hodoris
@@diegozuniga7644 "All Men Must Hodor." 😂💀
There are strong parallels between the story arc of Dany and Joshua York in Fevre Dream - the main difference is that was a stand-alone book so George told Joshua’s descent into violence in flashback. So I think that Dany will get more violent but, like Joshua, will be horrified and use it as a spur to never repeat that. Both have a strong anti slavery theme as well- that desire to free people which came out of violence for both. Fevre Dream is a really powerful book on its own but worth reading for the parallels as writers often have favourite themes which over a longer series can be expanded.
It said that D&D came up with Dany's ending, not George. King Bran, Hodor, and the burning of Shireen were the three things George revealed to them.
GRRM wasn’t crystal clear on _Bran_ on the throne, he just said that he said D&D “who will end up on the Iron Throne”. The phrasing of the interview was a bit odd so maybe we’re in for some subtle twist? Who knows.
@@federicovolpe3389 i think so too ;) big fan of detective drogon theory :D check this, its from the script: We look over Jon’s shoulder as the fire sweeps toward the throne ― not the target of Drogon’s wrath, just a dumb bystander caught up in the conflagration. We look through the blades of the throne as the flames engulf it, and blast the wall behind it. We see the throne in the flames, turning red, then white, then beginning to lose its form. We get tight shots of the details melting in silhouette: the armrests, the iconic fan of swords on the backrest. The fire stops. The smoke clears revealing a puddle of smouldering slag where the throne once stood. Who will sit on the Iron Throne? No one.
My oppinion is at end
Rickon will be lord of Winterfell
Jon will die after the fight against white walkers (Dany and YG also will die) . Sansa will rule Vale (i know Robin is her cousin,but that is not big deal)
-Gendry and Arya will marry to reunite North and South (King and Queen)
-Edric will get Stroms End.
- Edmur will rule Riverlands.
-Tyron will rule Westerlands
- Dorne will go to Alleine
-Reach i rly dont have strong oppinion
People who knows about Gendry are Stannis and Varys, Stannis cares about rules and he knows Gendry is the oldest Robert son, Stannis will propably die, but he will spread out the word . Varys in other hand support YG, but YG is propably FAegon (BlackFyre), dragon will be his test and dragon will kill him ( Quentyn had Targeryan blood but its was to much diluted) so Varys will support Gendry more than Targeryans. If Varys supports BlackFyre , he would rather have Robert bastard than Targeryans on the throne.
@@TheDzudas we’re not getting the books
There's every chance George will change his plans either because of the show or otherwise. He's already dramatically changes his original plans for the books before.
I disagree about Rickon dying. George R.R. Martin is known for reusing plot ideas. My belief is that Rickon is the Viserys of this story. I'm of course talking about Viserys II, younger brother of Aegon the Dragonbane. Viserys disappeared and was presumed dead for years during the Dance of Dragons, then returned when his brother was king. He's also the youngest of five children. Rickon is also the youngest of five. Furthermore, if we get King Bran in the books there may be even more similarities. There's no way Bran of all people will rule from King's Landing. More likely he'll rule from Winterfell, which means Rickon will be second in the line of succession (until Bran has a son).
So... Bran will be king. I'm guessing that he won't have any children, so Rickon will rule for a time after his death. He will be followed by his son, and so on.
Probably Harenhall rather than Winterfell
Sounds like a prologue scene. Rickon coming home, hailing his brother the king, fulfilling his destiny. Bran will seem the last surviving, or present Stark, but cant have children, why Rickon must father an heir for the Stark line to live on. Because there must always be a Stark ...
I do agree that Bran will be King--I also think the Elected Monarchy as the end point is a logical end--the lords of Westeros are just too powerful to keep them in one country without say, Dragons to keep them in line. So that system makes sense. Further if we take the consideration that Planetos is de-evolving at a slow pace (GRRM likes writing about societies in slow declines) the critique that they're going backwards to a former state of governance, not a newer one makes sense (Elected Monarchies pre-date Hereditary ones in our own world).
Further it fits with the overall theme that the Children of the Forest ultimately win the Game of Thrones via Bran/The Three Eyed Raven. They played the long game and won in the end over man by putting their collective consciousness in charge of Westeros. I expect that the election process will likely still happen, but somehow the successor who will be chosen will have skin changing capabilities and be the new host of the Three Eyed Raven--but that's future speculation beyond the scope of the books. Nor do I think that the Three Eyed Raven won't take advantage of being able to skin change people to make sure the "vote" goes the "correct" way--nor that in order for there to be peace, Bran doesn't have to do that himself in the books.
@Lilithan Chrispiford the 3rd He can still have heirs. Real life example: Christopher Reeve. They may not be able to feel it, but some things are reflexive and still work.
WHEW. I thought you were talking about the original Viserys at first... the poor older brother of Jaehaerys who Maegor had tortured for ten days before killing him. Yeah, hopefully Rickon gets a different fate.
Viserys the Second was a great guy from what I can tell. His line ended up becoming the Targaryen ruling bloodline as well, and yeah, great theory.
This would reinforce George's comparison of current characters with historical ones, as well as fit perfectly with the fate of Aegon the Dragonbane and his brother.
A dragon can’t breach The Wall with fire from the north side is all that Fire & Blood tells us.
No, fire and blood also tells us that the dragons refuse to go north of the wall for very experienced dragon riders (much more experienced than Dany) and that all dragons who get close to the wall get very skittish.
I think what Ms Zee Zed meant is that there is nothing to stop a dragon (in the hands of Euron, most likely) to breach The Wall from the south side.
@@autje1970 Spoilers! :)
@@siomhe8539 exactly. The Good Queen proved it during her progress to the north and the wall. Silverwing refused to go north of that wall. Another thing on the list of many questions that I’d like answered.
Bran's ascension will mean more with Bloodraven's past coming into play. Bloodraven (The three eyed raven) was a spymaster and basically the ruler of Westeros for years, this gives Bran a different kind of training to be King other than watching old wheelchairs.
@John Trevolter I didn't say good king, but if he ends up like Bloodraven then it should fit what george himself has said about the ending being bittersweet. Bloodraven did horrible things for his idea of greater good, this is most likely going to become Bran's philosophy.
I do wonder if the dead can be killed by iron. Old Nan specifically says the old dead things hate the heat and iron.
Yeah I'm curious about the wights weaknesses especially all the iron talk.
No no no my friend. Rickon will be the Stark that will rule Winterfell. I believe that Rickon will return with Shaggydog and an army of Skagosi to beat the Bolton's and the Frey's . It would be fitting if Shaggydog devours Ramsay Snow and Roose Bolton, thus ending their line...or the Skogosi may eat them, since they are rumored to be cannibals.
I really truly believe 2 huge events with Wildfire will take place:
1. Cersei will blow up the Great Sept of Baelor. I think it will happen pretty much the way it did in the show.
2. Dany will release dragon fire on King's Landing to maybe hit some enemies here and there. It won't be good and it won't be justified, but I don't think her intention will be to destroy the city. Due to Tyrion and Hallyne's assertions that King's Landing is simply *flush* with King Aerys' squirrelled-away Wildfire, it will start a chain reaction that will completely destroy King's Landing. The mass amounts of still-hidden Wildfire is a huge Chekhov's gun to me.
I think Tyrion will definitely influence Dany’s dark turn. His character may start the story with a strong moral foundation, but his trial and Jaime’s confession changed him. He still is the character who would most enjoy watching KL burn.
That's where I'm at with it, too. I think she'll unwittingly trigger her father's trap.
@@hokogan Maybe she will go mad after that, feeling responsible for a mass murder, or she'll find herself unable to rule and will be more involved with the northern treat from White Walkers.
She is very self aware and Cersei is plainly already going mad so it would be redundant to have two mad queens imo.
@Lilithan Chrispiford the 3rd Oh, I'm pretty sure Faegon will be taken care of long before this.
Hark, doth I hear Greyscale?
2 things. I thought somewhere it said that when Queen Alsanne went to the wall, the magic prevented her dragon refused to go over it three times. Was there something in the wall's magic? Also, granted it the show, but didn't Bran refuse to be Lord of Winterfell due to his status as the Three-Eyed Crow? If this follows in the books, why would it suddenly be OK to be king???
He probably refused to be lord because he knew he was going to be king
The only thing I trust about Bran becoming King is that it will make more sense in the books than the show. GRRM may be slow but he writes incredibly well, and I have no doubt that the King Bran storyline will be the culmination of many things that just click. Albeit, the books will likely have a lot more heartbreak involved.
I absolutely love this book. The sheer volume of cast and crew interviews is mind-blowing, and the insight it gives into the showmaking process is awesome
Bringing to life some big ass wolves was too technically difficult... but we had 3 huge dragons and one turned undead... oh and let's not forget the wall being destroyed by one. Oh and the vast hordes dead and others who led them... but they couldn't do 4 or 5 dire wolves
I said that Littlefinger would never turn Sansa over to someone like Ramsey. Littlefinger wants Sansa for himself.
This sounds like a terrible thing... but he's actually set up to be far safer currently than several others Sansa may have ended up with.
Indeed. He's far from a good man, but at least he's so possessive that he'll try to keep from harm's way physically. (Mentally I don't think he's able to do that, he doesn't even realise how much he has already done to her.)
The dark Dany seems to hold up in the show. When she does righteous violence, she almost seems to enjoy it. But in the books she seems conflicted and sometimes horrified at necessary violence... si I'm not sure "dark Dany" is Dany becoming the ultimate vilain of the series...
I agree, Dany can become dark without it meaning she commits mass murder *intentionally*. I could definitely see her burning down some areas of king's landing and all the hidden wildfire causing the entire place to burn down. I am hoping that this happening will snap her out of being dark because I'd really like to see her survive til the end. If we know Bran will be king then Dany will hopefully give up on the throne.
GRRM Constantly says how he always rewrites and changes things while progressing with the books. Although final plot twists seem less likely to be rewritten, i allow myself to hope that bran might not be king after all 😢
If he does become king it won’t be the same way as the show
@@Matli1804 Theres no way to write the ending where Bran becoming king isnt the stupidest possible ending. Giving the kingship to a previously unknown species of sentient sofas would make more sense than that. Unless GRRM's ultimate morale with the story is that '1984 is some sort of model for the supreme society, then Bran needs to be revealed as what he is, a major villain. After all, with his ability to manipulate things across time, the only way he could end up on the throne is if he explicitly engineered events to lead to that outcome, the potential end of the world included. All the horror, explicitly set in motion and carried out by him, to seat his own sociopathic ass on the throne. The only way i can see this ending being true, is if it happens in the scouring of the shire sense. Everyone things everything is done and dusted, and Jon returns "home" to north of the wall, only for a revalation there to lead him to discover the truth about Bran, and they storm back south to defeat him.
@@generictotheextreme2566 I don’t know about a 9 year old becoming the thanos of Westeros but I agree under no circumstances will bran being king make sense.
I think bran will be the ruler of Westeros but not the king.
My oppinion is at end
Rickon will be lord of Winterfell
Jon will die after the fight against white walkers (Dany and YG also will die) . Sansa will rule Vale (i know Robin is her cousin,but that is not big deal)
-Gendry and Arya will marry to reunite North and South (King and Queen)
-Edric will get Stroms End.
- Edmur will rule Riverlands.
-Tyron will rule Westerlands
- Dorne will go to Alleine
-Reach i rly dont have strong oppinion
People who knows about Gendry are Stannis and Varys, Stannis cares about rules and he knows Gendry is the oldest Robert son, Stannis will propably die, but he will spread out the word . Varys in other hand support YG, but YG is propably FAegon (BlackFyre), dragon will be his test and dragon will kill him ( Quentyn had Targeryan blood but its was to much diluted) so Varys will support Gendry more than Targeryans. If Varys supports BlackFyre , he would rather have Robert bastard than Targeryans on the throne.
Truly surprised by the Rickon reveal!!! Thanks for this, Robert. 🥂 Cheers @in deep geek
There still has to be a Stark running Winterfell at the end of all of this. Maybe it's Rickon instead of Sansa.
Dark Dany has always made sense to me: it’s a critique of the born to rule/ancient noble blood trope of Tolkien and his successors. Having a beautiful, destined by blood ruler taking power and being good and perfect would sorta fly in the face of everything Martin’s trying to do with the genre. I think there’s a little of Alexander The Great in Dany, a man who could conceive of an empire of meritocracy and multiculturalism but only with himself in charge of it (He has long been convinced of his own divinity). Like Alexander there’s no compromise to Daenerys, not really. And that’s dangerous.
The difference here is that Dany lost all privileges. Yes she has a claim but she was also sold, raped, betrayed and hurt. She has a claim but she has to earn it.
Having said that the Dark Dany turn could be done by GRRM in a way that we the readers believe it. The show rushed it with the stupid coin flip theory saying that Targs are either born crazy or not. The show said Dany was and Jon was not. Then played a bunch of scenes that made Dany look crazy. If GRRM means to turn Dany on us he will make sense out of it.
@@fernandosimon5621 Also...the bad thing with the show is it didn't go so hard into fore-shadowing Mad Queen Dany. I watched the first 3 seasons then read the five books...and it was in the books that I really started to see and feel that Dany would ultimately head down a darker path....or at least a self-destructive path of mistakes causing her undoing. The show version of Dany had a lot of simps and fangirls and they played into the whole "she is like the mascot of the show" thing and really seemed to always want to make her seem much more good and pure than she really ever was.
I think with the show, they REALLY wanted it to be more like "Dany was good, and then SNAPPED and nobody saw it coming" kind of vibe. Just like with Bran on the throne. They wanted it to be so shocking that they did not want to properly set it up, foreshadow it. Imagine.....if they had REALLY used Bran, and had him doing awesome stuff with his magic and abilities....then many fans probably would have expected or even wanted him on the throne. They wanted their "Wam, didn't see THAT coming did ya?" moment....so they consistently just underplayed him.
In the book, Dany will probably not go from total sweetheart(which she never was) to absolute tyrant over night. It will be a downward spiral. One or two mistakes, with bad consequences or things that backfire badly....only to lead to further mistakes, and her to become increasingly enraged and frustrated and head down further into a dark path.
Just as Theon's approach to taking Winterfell was kind of a sh!t show. He took a chance for something that he thought would be great...but he was in over his head, made some bad calls, and things got completely away from him and be paid.
Robb Stark wasn't trying to be a 'bad guy' when he killed Karstark, there was a crappy set of circumstances and he felt it was the proper punishment in the moment....but it created a ton of strife that helped lead to his ultimate undoing.
Martin had a lot more nuance and complexity in his writing than D&D...it won't be a "she was always evil deep down" or "she just snapped and turned evil" kind of vibe....Martin will play it with much more nuance and much more complexity in a way that is far more believable.
@@fernandosimon5621 I think that all of the hardship she endured turned to bitterness instead of strength of character because of the brainwashing that she was subjected to by her brother. She was raised on tales of entitlement.
@Paul WT I understand, I am just saying that for people who were 'show only', it wasn't as clearly or OVERTLY depicted. It was done in a way that allowed many viewers to kind of just brush it off and act like it came out of nowhere, but if you read the books....it felt a bit more painfully clear.
The show really leaned into portraying her as some kind of pure goddess at certain moments, and always depicted those 'against' her as particularly despicable, so her darkness always felt like 'retaliation'
Like...I don't recall her crowd-surfing a bunch of slaves in the books, yet that was depicted as the final 'triumphant' moment for her in Season 3. The show really leaned into the messiah complex with her, and the fans totally bought it. The marketing also very much leaned into making Dany seem like the mascot of the show, and of course the Dany/Emilia Clarke fangirls and simps didn't help, Dany could do no wrong in their eyes because they drank the kool-aid.
The show kept things more surface level, and the final stages of her transition were poorly executed.
The books have consistently maintained a lot more nuance and complexity, and her 'transition' will probably be more gradual and more nuanced than in the show...making the overall arc stronger.
I don't hate the final season like a lot of people, I just feel that it was executed a little sloppily and just needed a bit more time to breathe. Ideally 10 seasons of 10 episodes would be nice for a complete 100 episode experience.
But short of that, Season 7 and 8 certainly had enough narrative real estate to each get 10 episodes.
Alexander the Great is 180° compared to Daenerys.
She won't be mad in the books though. Not in the insane sense. She'll be angry to contest against Faegon, she'll probably do way more damage than intended to King's Landing due to the stores of Wildfire, but she's not going to be crazy like she is in the show.
@Zen Tao
And Hitler wasn't a psychopath?
🤨
@Zen Tao
You're seriously defending the integrity of Hitler?
Hitler was a psychopath.
Martin confirmed Dany taking a dark turn. So she will do some dark and evil things..
@@anbuookami13
And that's not the same as being crazy
@@Richard_Nickerson burning innocents and becoming more violent kind of sounds crazy to me. But we disagree on this but that's cool. I'm just glad people can stop crying that it was never intended for her to do dark things or be dark
After how the series ended, well, the whole last season, honestly, I couldn't care less. The only clue I want to hear is "Oh, Winds of Winter hit the bookshelves" preferably before the old nutball croaks on us.
A Dream of Spring seems unlikely to ever be published at this rate.
@@MaynardCrow Your probably right but part of me feels, whether or not, George wants to admit it, his creative meme got bent by how the cable series went. He may have wanted to give enough time for the series impact on his works to fade before returning to his baby. Perhaps, assuming Winds of Winter his a hit, it'll spur him on to completing the series. You know, there's so many stories that remain to be told in the world of Ice and Fire, I'm surprised that he hasn't subcontracted out to other writers.
@@yourseatatthetable I sure hope that's the case and he lives many more years. There could still be many more tales to tell from the era of Duncan and Egg or the Blackfyre rebellion or the Dance of Dragons. Not the age of heros though. It could only undermine their value as legends if we knew what really happened.
I can fully understand this. He can't have been thrilled on that bum rush of a final season. Time does dull the perspective and allows for a fresher eye.
.
@@yourseatatthetable From what George has said a Dream of Spring is close to being finished as well. He’s pretty much been writing them simultaneously, now George’s version of nearly finished is certainly not the same as ours. But I think winds of winter is what’s taking so long, it’s where he’ll do all the heavy lifting with all the magical and prophecy elements of the story.
You have no idea how much i ve wanted this video since the last mentioned it in the stream thank you Robert !
Gods a year after the terrible ending that was s8 I am still waiting paitently for book 6 and 7. I really hope George makes it before he finishes the books because I cant wait for the true ending of this series, that needs the ending it deserves.
I hope he is secretly writing them both and will release them together 😂
I have scoured the books, and the internet, and I swear, if Martin dies before these next books are released, I will consider having read his previous books a mistake. They are setting up literally so much, by the end of the dance with dragons. My bet is on Tyrion, being the third head of the dragon. They keep mentioning the prophecy, "the dragon must always have 3 heads. He will be revealed as a Targaryan, the product of either an affair, or rape, between the mad king, Aerys, and Joanna Lannister. The incest in the bloodline of the Targaryans, could explain Tyrions form, and why his birth killed his mother. This also explains a lot of what Tywin says, to, and about Tyrion. The "you're no son of mine," line, could be quite literal. This also explains why, in the show, the dragon didn't kill Tyrion, when he stood before it. That was a huge hint, that Martin told them that part, but they left it out, because it would be too convoluted, a feat to pull off.
You shouldnt call it a mistake, obviously what you read was enough to captivate you and the characters are gonna stick with you
@@JeffPenaify no, I would regret it profoundly, actually. The show did not give closure. To have the story started, and have the show runners botch the ending, and then not get to see what happens next, would be terrible. With the episodes, I think we forget how far behind the books are.
Usually we look forward to seeing our favorite characters come to life on screen; I just want to see if Tyrion really is a targaryan; if Jamies story arc is really so mishandled. The show wasn't the truth. And I've grown tired of knowing the lie.
Unless Bran is a Complete Thrall of the Children of The Forest, who are Behind EVERYTHING, him being King would be Such an Anti Climax! Boo! I'd rather have Jingle bell resurrected and become King Of The Seven Kingdoms!
King Brann is trash and not rewarding at all. I get its a darker story but that would not be entertaining with out a twist.
Or King Patchface.
I really don't think Stannis is planning on executing Theon...Totally agree Dany goes a bit over the line. Stannis and Mance will take WF but I agree with "and all the rest of it...."It would be like GRRM to have a Horn on the cover of TWOW and never see the horn in the book just like ADWD where there isn't any dance of dragons...
Love your videos Robert. I really think the burning of Shereen is going to be the most dramatic, saddest and tragic moment in the books, I think it will happen when the otherss are attacking the wall, that will be the last_stand moment for Stannis, honestly, burning Shereen to improve the weather is super cheap.
I think Hodor’s Hold the Pass scene will be a homage to Gandalf’s “You shall not pass!!” moment.
I can't shake the image of Gandalf holding off the Balrog by pushing Sam in front of himself. 😂
Probably!
Homage? More like "this would be a more likely scenario"
Rickon has a dark, impulsive side. Shaggy Dog has black fur and if turned into a wight would have blue eyes, just like the colour scheme of the shade of the evening tree...I wonder if he is being set up to be a wild, powerful warg that is involved with White Walkers perhaps?
This wasn't originally my idea, but I think it's worth mentioning nonetheless. In one of his TWOW prediction videos, Lucifer Means Lightbringer suggested that Melisandre could burn Shireen to raise Jon Snow (because only death can pay for life), without Stannis's consent. This is my interjection now--Shireen's dreams of a dragon coming to eat her could allude to that. Jon being Rhaegar's son makes him a dragon, so if she is burned to bring Jon back you could say his flame consumed her, a dragon ate her, etc etc.
@Zen Tao It's still not confirmed in the books mate.
@Zen Tao If you have questions, I'd recommend Robert's video on the topic. He explains why Jon being Rhaegar's son actually does make narrative sense, more so than any of the other paternity theories. I'd get more into it myself, but you can't do the explanation justice with a comment or two, an entire video is warranted.
** Forgive the very long comment in advance **
Great job here as always Robert. Definitely some interesting reveals came out of this book , especially the quotes and interviews with GRRM. The words from George I will take , some of which prove myself and many others' wrong about long held theories and ideas ; but from this author directly anything that comes out from him we have to take with skepticism and scrutiny. Hibberd is 100% a mouthpiece and apologist for D&D , even seems like a D&D super-fan who has been complicit and in concert D&D doing damage control for them and the show for years. Hibberd has routinely tried to cover up and change the media narrative around D&D and the show (and has done so in an obvious way since around S5) from getting uber advanced access to GoT seasons putting out mega early favorable reviews in order to get the early media spin going in D&D's favor , attempting to gloss over massive plot holes and bad decisions , to deliberately running over time at cons / panels to time out the ability for fans to ask questions , to pre-rehearsed scripted Q&A's with the cast to also get that spin going for D&D , among much more . So full disclaimer I will not buy or read this author's book or support him in anyway and anything that comes out of him regarding GoT , I and everyone else need to have a deep look into and around every corner to discern motivation and intention. And very forgivable that Robert called the author "Dan" Hibberd during the last livestream and in this vid because Hibberd is not particularly memorable as a journalist or author. And in general most of this book I would take with a massive grain of salt given the source / author's reputation with most the inclusions it would appear are to try and put D&D and the show in a better light (even if it fails to do so).
That being said some interesting reveals coming out of discussions with GRRM , some of which definitely proved against some long held ideas for myself and many others. A few that stand out for me from this list was Stannis being complicit and actually deciding to burn Shireen ; I definitely did not think this would be the case , I figured Stannis would be far away when this happened and this would have been hatched up by Mel and Selyse while Stannis off dealing with the Boltons. And even though i have a somewhat ambivalent view on Stannis (who is usually polarized for or against within the fandom's opinions) GRRM seemingly confirming Stannis deciding and directing this incident was a surprise for me ; I thought that would be a line SB would not cross , a bit pragmatic and draconian / make tough decisions to accomplish a goal or task but the Massey instruction to keep going with Shireen if he died and ignoring the blowback and loss of favor this type of decision would elicit (especially in the North) definitely threw me off the case with this one. Hodor as well , seems long known this event with the "Hold the door" came from GRRM and this is more a nuanced difference that emerged here but GRRM confirming it is less literal and more about Bran warging into Hodor to defend a pass with a sword to me is more underwhelming and less a direct play on his name / the only word he says. Especially from a fear perspective it would be much more fearful and traumatizing to know you would be ripped apart and killed holding a door open or shut. Ntm I always thought with Hodor's real name in the books being Walder , i thought he would be holding open or closed a door in the Wall , Walder / "Wall door" and i like holding a door open or shut with Hodor because it likely echoes back to his likely descendant Dunk who likely did something similar at Summerhall. Not an earth shattering change this one and def curious to see exactly how it plays out.
With Rickon this is definitely another one many of us could have been proved wrong about with GRRM's reveal here , I was definitely a team "Shaggydog" story for Rickon , not that his arc would meaningless but likely be built up only to be cut short and his death would prove much more impactful than his life / events. Though he is a super useful political tool for the Manderlys and / or Stannis and the Northern Lords , similar to what could happen with Edric Storm for whoever links up with ES , although Rickon is another level above that being legitimate ; but either way he could be a great political tool to get the North / Northern Houses to rally around whoever gets credit for bringing him back into the fold and could also be part of the upcoming Winterfell / Stark succession headache. Though it still could be that RS' death has more narrative impetus & impact and still match up with what GRRM is saying about him. Dany is another one here that I definitely did not think she would be going down such a dark path in the books , GRRM may have proved myself and many wrong again here , of course she would have to do more ruthless things (like every other power player in the books) and become more grey in typical GRRM fashion and perhaps from ousting fAegon and imo framing or accidental KL destruction could massively turn the realm against her so it becomes a more "you think I am a monster , well here I am / now you have one " type thing. It could still end up more that way and would be surprised despite GRRM saying so if Dany went more the S8 route.
The other reveals were more in line with my and many other's thinking with LF / Sansa (didn't make sense on the show on many levels that whole situation) especially with SS being blended with Jeyne Poole's a bit on the show but why would LF give her up and put her in peril , also dragons north of the Wall / being used to destroy the Wall always felt like a show construct that seems to ignore and violate the source material (totally ignores the magical component of the Wall) , the Wight Hunt always seemed like a total show only mess. Also , the wolfpack being ignored / overlooked on the show but will be significant in the book we all already knew as massively hinted at from GRRM and King Bran has long been attributed to GRRM since S8 (despite basically no one predicting that pre-S8 , fans or creators / theorizers). But the reveals in this book that subvert and / or thwart large portions of the fandom's thinking and theories were quite interesting surprising.
@D D thank you , appreciate it , some of them definitely can be of the very long variety like this one (not all of them are this long), but glad you like some of them , thanks again.
Reading your comments about Stannis did give me a thought that "Stannis gives the order to burn Shireen" could possibly being him sending a message to Mel to burn someone with kingsblood no matter who it is (not knowing Aemon and Mance's baby are gone) and Mel taking this as license to kill Shireen. So, technically he gives the order, but it would be just like George for him to give an order not realizing what it would mean to him personally.
@@siomhe8539 that is possible as well , and would fall into the "unknown / unintended consequences" concept. I definitely think there is some room for nuance and interpretation with some of these reveals anyway ; ntm GRRM likes to build something one way only to pull the rug out from under us , leave numerous plausible scenarios that he can pivot to and he even will flat out troll and trick the fandom at times anyway. But yes I like that idea , and it would not violate the supposed reveal about Stannis. And though I am not in the staunch pro-Stannis contingent like many or those who flat out do not like him , I fall in the middle with an ambivalent view of SB ; but your idea would be much more tolerable and make more sense for Stannis' character.
For me to make plans via Massey to keep pursing the throne with Shireen if Stannis dies , knowing the backlash and loss of support that burning his own daughter would elicit which as a pragmatist / get the job done type would seemingly be contrary to SB's character / what he would do. Especially considering the Northerners he is relying on rallying around him would be horrified in SB being complicit in this act. Stannis has to know and keep in mind that the North sees him as a better alternative / do the right thing type in contrast to the Boltons who the Northern Lords feel they can not support based on what they helped orchestrate against the Starks and just being a horrific regime. So a lot just does not match up for me with Stannis being more obviously involved , directing and / or choosing to burn / execute Shireen. So I like an interpretation akin to yours where it could still fit GRRM saying he is responsible but yet not so direct and obvious like the show. I see that similar to how I see Dany's arc as well , I have always been against a Dany to the dark-side arc for her but if GRRM shows us a gradual shift , sets the proper conditions and makes it plausible and perhaps have accidental / unintended circumstances (that i mentioned in my comment) factor in with Dany's turn then it is more acceptable and just about anything is more sensical than the abrupt ridiculous shift for her in the show. And yet like your idea for Stannis would still fall in line with what GRRM has supposedly indicated for the books' arcs and endgame.
I still can’t get behind Stannis authorizing the burning of Shireen as a living sacrifice, but hopefully it will make sense if it happens. The wildlings keep talking about her greyscale and how the dormant infection will wake up again, along with all of that creepy stuff Patchface says - it makes me wonder if a plague will break out and the burning will be related to that. I always thought that the Red Woman would go rogue and Shireen’s life will be the one to pay for Jon’s resurrection. I’m assuming someone or something will have to die to bring him back.
It has been too foreshadowed for Stannis to burn Shireen for it to be the red woman to do it. "What is one child to a kingdom", "a sacrifice must hurt otherwise it is no true sacrifice."
GRRM has basically said a show dead character will be the main character of WoW which is most likely Stannis. My guess is he burns her to defeat the Others but still loses.
When you are talking about the books use fan arts instead of the show pictures
Why, when the book is specifically about behind the scenes of the show?
There’s a positive way to say this and then there is the approach you went with.
@@paul-michaelvincent7123 sorry. This is because the way I learned English 😐😐😐
@@paul-michaelvincent7123 sorry. This is because the way I learned English 😐😐😐
There is a massive hint about how the Others might make it through the Wall in the semi-canon mobile game called Tale of Crows. The game tells the story of the first Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Part of the magic built into the Wall that keeps it standing through the ages is dependent on the Lord Commander honoring his vows to never abandon the Wall. At the end of Dance, Jon Snow breaks his vow as a result of the Pink Letter, thus breaking the magic that bound the Wall.
I'm not sure exactly to the degree of official canon the game is, but as far as I know, it's considered semi-canon in the world of A Song of Ice and Fire. If anyone else knows more, feel free to correct me.
Semi-canon? I'm pretty sure there isn't a grey area with canonization... it's either canon or it isn't.
I don't know about that, though it's interesting.
40 million different people have 40 million different ideas about what constitutes canon.
Bloodraven was Lord Commander. Wouldn't you say that he also broke his vows when he ran off to become a tree?
But Jon didn't break his vows, did he? He was killed before he could. I don't think the thought of breaking his vows would suffice.
As I always have said... Darth Danny is actually believable... You have someone that is so kind and protective... Then you cause her to lose almost everything that she cares about in a short amount of time and then still be looked down on... It would hurt her more than it would someone that didn't care as much. The reason it didn't work in the show was due to the ending being far too rushed. If we had even one more episode to see how it affected her, it would have worked better
Yeah. Lucifer Means Lightbringer has tried to debunk Dany’s turn to the dark side. But I think it will definitely happen, only much more believably than we got in the show. She’s made some questionable choices since exiling Jorah, imo. That guy was her strong right hand. He betrayed the Iron Throne for Dany, not the other way around. And he’s cleverer than Barristan, who is a badass, just in a different way.
Then again, she also seems to see some of her mistakes when she’s hungry and eating hallucinogens after Drogon flies her to the wilderness. I wouldn’t mind not seeing her turn completely to the dark. Maybe just become more gray of a character than before.
What will Dany find when she returns to Mereen? Barristan dead? A dragon being controlled by Victarion? A plague-ridden city? What will she have to go thru just to get away from the Dothraki?
GRRM did say some time ago that one of his characters will have a Walter White type arc. After seeing the show, all signs point to Dany.
All they had to do is have an episode where Dany finds out all of her gains in Esteros were erased, and all faithful to her have been executed. They could have had 100,000 dead... Including Dario. Hell, have her receive Dario's head in a box, sent to her by the slavers. They should have left Misandai behind in Mereen too, and then had her head delivered as well. They could have even had Cercei involved somehow, maybe using the Iron Bank's loan to get the Golden company to help take back Mereen, or something. Something like this, anything, could have helped sell her change to us better.
@agnat86 We're not getting two fire-obsessed Mad Queens. No, Dany's not turning to the dark side. And what morally grey things have she been doing? Killing the masters? They were SLAVERS! Keep in mind that the books never brings up the possibility that some of them might have been innocent.
You have an amazing eye, ear, mind for detail. I've read the books I don't even know how many times, five or six times, and I'll miss things every single time that you will point out later. It's impressive. Almost as impressive as GRRM and his ability to write this stuff. I'm in the process of watching all your videos, and they shed light on many concepts that I am just not bright enough to catch. So thank you for that and for sharing your findings with those of us who are just regular humans
The finish with Bran on the Throne was the worst thing about the abysmal last 4 seasons of the show, and they were all really bad. I thought they were just trolling the fans with it. Surely Martin will learn the lesson and not burn his legacy to the ground. If he really intends that ending, it would be better if he just stopped now while he is ahead and let fan fiction take up the fallen banner. If that's the ending, then I for one will simply block out the fact that it existed, like season 8 of GoT, Highlander 2, later seasons of MASH, etc.
I agree, and I have a bad feeling that GRRM has already burnt his credits. GOT will never be as good as LOR. Coz the latter has a fit theme to stop and destroy dark magic. However Martin is still playing with different magics and leads to chaos in his own making and unreasonable plot turns.
The way the ending was posed in the show made it hint at more of a horror book ending, with Bran having been sort of taken over/replaced by non-human entities through the weirwoods, and then made a King. That leaves him ruling over humanity as an omnicient being without the humans realizing that he has this powers. Given that he can easily check what people are doing and discussing outside of his presence, and potentially do things like control animals to kill him, mounting a challenge to his rule would be anywhere from enormously difficult to impossible.
This may not be how the books spin it, but it's worth noting that GRRM has spent much of his career as a writer of scifi/horror hybrids, and a big fan of Lovecraft, so the idea that his saga ends with humanity unknowingly under the influence of an all-knowing non-human power with the ability to influence them through their dreams wouldn't exactly be wildly out of character for the author.
As much as I enjoy it, there's no way this thing has a satisfactory ending
There's two books left and the scope of the plot is still widening
No way anything is coming
I’ve kinda sorta started thinking the same thing. Here’s hoping that George will find a way to prove us wrong.
I cannot see how continually adding new characters in the 4th book is going to help in the finishing of the novels. Makes it more and more complicated as well as harder to bring it all together in the end.
I just hate the idea of Bran becoming King!!! Idky but I absolutely hate that idea. I was hoping for someone less obvious or expected like Jaime or the Evil Demon Dwarf. I dont feel a Stark should be King of the seven kingdoms!!!
Watch Tony Teflon explanation of why it is important for Bran to be the king. In short, Children of the Forest are warging his body, and finally, through Bran, control the Westeros again. Their lives are long, and they plan a long game, which they in the end win. True bittersweet end for the Saga.
@@StankoAx it would’ve been cool if any of this was explained in the show.
Personally I agree with this theory and I think that GRRM will do something similar if Bran becomes king in the books as well. No way there’s no supernatural stuff involved and it’s just a council randomly choosing him.
@@federicovolpe3389 Show is merely a sketch compared to the book series. Unfortunately. There won't be any stupid council wherein 10 min of the worth of screen time the whole story ends.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon"
- A book about a TV show based on a book"
One might conclude that the market is a bit oversaturated...
The technical difficulties of making the CGI direwolves was too much... but we had real white walkers and dragons, so it's lucky on that account...
... damn, been over a year and I'm still extremely salty over how the direwolves were treated.
I'm also still salty of how the direwolves were treated, and how the white walkers were treated, and how the dragons were treated....
More salty about the crap writing of the last few seasons...
Dire wolves are basically just big wolves. The human brain would see right through a CGI wolf bc we are familiar with what they look like. It’s be a bit of the uncanny valley effect. Dragons and White Walkers are fictional. They don’t exist in our world. It’s easier to believe it bc we have never seen them. So yea CGI wolves are hard to do right. Plus working with real wolves isn’t the most practical thing to do.
They could have used real dogs with some forced perspective. D&D were so unfit to run the show.
Using perspective to change the apparent size of an object is something those hacks would have learned if they'd actually gone to film school.
Hel, all they'd need to do is watch a behind the scenes of Lord of the Rings...
I seem to know more about it than the duo of fuckwit and moron, and I've never even set foot on a film set.
I don't get, why you critisize Emilia Clarke for her portrayal of Dany. Clearly she had no idea of what the show runners were up to with her character. She simply had the wrong understanding of Daenerys and D&D missed to tell her, what her character was going to be. If she had known, she could have given us a much more convincing turn to evil. In the end it is the fault of the directors if they do not manage to convince their actors into playing these characters the way they are meant to. Over all she did a fine job acting. She is not the greatest actress, but neither is she a bad actress. With the right direction given, I am sure, she'd have done a better job.
It's not the acting that's the problem, it's the writing. Everything she did in the show is perfectly reasonable up to King's Landing, and there's possibilities of even THAT being reasonable. Does she act dark? Sure, no one would argue with that. Does she act like she's going insane? No, never, and that is the problem
Source?
Hi Robert, Just wanted to say thank you for all your videos and passion. Your channel gave me the strenght to buy and read the books. This is such an amazing universe, I hope that Martin will be able to finish it the way he wants. Regards from France and of course I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.
Finally the debate can be settled that Stannis WILL burn Shireen. I can't believe people still try and angrily refute this with the "shes his one heir and he loves her dearly" arguments when the books heavily signpost that this is the trajectory his characters arc is heading towards, what with him being a false Azor Ahai and all. The circumstances will obviously be vastly different to the BS with the Boltons that the show have us, but he will burn her in an attempt to end the new long night. He will defeat the Bolton's, face down the Others at Winterfell and burn Shireen after realising the iron throne is meaningless when the entire fate of the living is at stake. For the record I utterly, angrily disagree with this guys assessment that Stannis will still burn his daughter to defeat the fucking Bolton's and because of the weather. Fuck that. Hes been starving in the cold for ages and still eont allow any burnings apart from criminals. "I'll have no more burnings. Pray harder". You think hes going to go from that to giving his daughter to the flames, when shes fucking miles away at Castle Black? No way in hell. Shireen will not die until the Others breach the wall and Stannis has linked up with Melisandre and his family after taking Winterfell. Not because of the weather LMAO
Kinda funny since she's AT Castle Black and he's 500 miles away in a blizzard
Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon is basically a propaganda book written by a D&D promoter to rewrite history. This is not a joke or mean spirited comment, James Hibberd is D&D preferred "interviewer" from the Hollywood Reporter and has handled most of the show's promotional material at ComicCon. He infamously coached, or at least contributed, the cast to answer pre-selected questions with rehearsed answers at the Season 8 Q&A so it would drag on long enough to avoid audience questions.
While I do not doubt there is some sincerely or useful notes in this book, it's primary purpose is to revise history so that way the show's latter seasons, and D&D by extension, look better by comparison.
I haven’t read the book but was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on what ways it attempts to rewrite history?
I'm guessing you're right and that's probably their intent, but every quote and excerpt from the book I've seen so far has made them look even worse
Completely agree with you.
I love that they apparently thought of the dragon/wall plan when the dragons were too small to be used in that way but also thought introducing a better concept would have been too much 🙃
King Bloodraven wiill happen, because he'll change the locks on Bran's body while he's creeping around in Hodor.
Bran ends up being king in the books? I don't mind this as I can imagine Bran (if Blood Raven does help humanity) being the leader of humanity's stand against the Others. I just wasn't happy with how the show made it happen.
Because his training was rushed and incomplete, and then he did nothing but be creepy and pretentious afterwards.
@@Richard_Nickerson agreed. The meeting between leaders plus Tyrion's speech felt weak too
@@johngo3715
Tyrion's speech sucked. I actually disagree with most fans saying Bran's personal story sucks being a reason that the speech sucks, I know Tyrion means it in that Bran knows all stories. The speech just sucked on its own.
It was the writers pleasuring themselves and making us al watch. The whole “stories are all that matter and who has the best story blah blah blah, bran is the writer of the show we’ve been watching”... just about the most obvious self congratulations you’ll see anywhere
@@paul-michaelvincent7123 Ha! That's a good take.
An unexpected treat! Thanks Robert!!
An African or European raven?
I wasn't that shocked about Danny's turn but I also binged 7 seasons and 3 episodes in two weeks to catch up, so it was easier for me to make the connections as a Binger.
Of everything, I hope he changes the King Bran. I think most people agreed that it was a terrible idea. A character who has no interest whatsoever in anything is a terrible king. Especially one who doesn't seem to be interested in fathering children, which would really cause problems when he dies. If anything in the Game of Thrones universe has been shown, it's that without clear succession, war comes. And so to have King Bran after all the turmoil basically rooted in succession would be terrible.
I hope Danny's dark turn isn't complete. Like, she gets overtaken by her need for fire and blood and does dark things, but comes back to herself in some way and helps win the bittersweet ending. She can end broken or dead in response to her actions. But don't just have turn mad queen. Where's the heart in conflict with itself in that
In ADwD, Val tells Jon Snow that Melisandre knew he was swapping the babies and that it suited her purposes. Could the little Monster’s blood be of some value to her? There is also the vision Dany has about a shadow dragon, which sounds to me like the only kind of dragon Melisandre could summon. I think that Shireen might be sacrificed to summon the shadow dragon and I wonder if little Monster might be sacrificed to bring back Jon Snow.
Emilia Clarke, the First of her Name. Bane of Foreshadowing, Breaker of Scripts, Mother of Fan Rage.
thank you robert. i think after a year i can listen to info about g o t again .
I'd be cool if Bran caused the mad king to scream "burn them all" over and over
Daenary's turn wasn't nessecary the issue, it was more the journey on how she got there. How rushed and jarring it is, if George can take his time and give enough credence to the turn I believe it could be good.
Yeah in the moment of the show it came entirely out of left field. Even visually.
Best GoT video I’ve seen from anyone in years! Gave this cynical heart a glimmer of hope lol
In Dany's most recent chapter, When she's alone in the dathraki sea sick and tired -- Not only do we get the foreshadowing of quathe reminding her what she is of fire and blood, But also We get some more nuanced foreshadowing showing her nature and showing her inability to create things in a showing her a Nate skill a destroying thing. When she tries to create a hat she fails, When she is covered in bugs she isn't freaked out she kills them with a precision and with a brutality, swiftly and exactly.
Man I still don’t understand how Bran will become the king. I don’t see how that’s the end to his storyline.
that boy is a Summer King. And he named his wolf Summer immediately after seeing all that winter crap in his dream, ha. But seriously, seems like a lot of foreshadowing for that is already in the first couple Bran chapters
The whole idea of getting a wight to convince Cersei is ridiculous anyway. They have two wights in the ice cells at Castle Black already. If D&D hadn't cut the Aegon plot or made Euron a complete idiot they would have had two other and better routes for another "Dance of the Dragons" without the wasted north of the wall scene. And if they had followed through on Sam's horn, they could have found a way to bring down the wall (regardless of whether that's what that horn actually did). D&D basically just proved they are not writers (also that they might not have even read the books since "looking at the pieces they had to bring down the wall" would have necessarily included that big horn Jon and Sam found way back during the Great Ranging and the horn of Joramun that Mance and Ygritte are so focused on is that piece right there. My guess is they read fan forums and that is the only way they knew the answer to George's question about Jon's mum. They are adapters of someone else's writing and if they have no source material, they just do stupid human tricks that they think might look impressive on screen. They have no concept of the idea of plot, structure, or continuity...or the Aristotelian unities.
GRRM has called the show fan fic. In a back handed way but that’s how he views it now.
Don’t assume anything until it’s on the page
Take your own advice
In the books doesn't Jon already have a wight stashed away somewhere in Castle Black?
But what use is that while he is dead?
He has corpses, not wights. He hopes they become wights so he can study them
I don't think Robb's will would hold up because Robb (as well as Sansa) is not a Stark but a Baelish. The only Stark children are Jon (although technically a Targaryan), Bran, Arya, and Rickon.
- Robb and Sansa look like their mother while Starks generally have similar features and even Jon looks like a Stark despite his Targaryan blood
- They aren't wargs (or at least we have no evidence that they are as we never read anything from Robb's point of view and Sansa's direwolf dies before any of the children learn to warg)
- The timeline matches up, although there are certainly details we don't know about. My guess at the timeline is: Petyr tells Brandon that Lyanna was kidnapped knowing that Brandon will be killed. Between that moment and when Catelyn is wed to Ned, Petyr manages to impregnate Catelyn (my guess is by convincing her that Ned is a bad man and will hurt her if she doesn't "practice" [if I remember correctly, she was scared of the quiet Ned whom she had never met], or by drugging).
Cat getting pregnant might even be part of the reason the marriage to Ned was rushed so much--that, and the war obviously. Perhaps her father found out and his woes are for Cat, not Lyssa.
Ned goes off to war and comes back with Jon, who he claims is his bastard. Cat was very bothered by this and it's the perfect time for Petyr to weasel his way back in. Perhaps Cat hates Jon so much because he existence reminds he of her own unfaithfulness?
Petyr also says he slept with both Catelyn and Lyssa. We find out later that he has slept with Lyssa. Half lying or fully telling the truth?
Petyr even has Sansa pretending to be his bastard child and what better way for a book to hide that she's really his bastard by having her pretend to be his bastard?
The plot is massively driven by children: Jaime and Cersei's, Rhaegar and Lyanna's, Robert's bastards, etc. Hell, the whites were created by the children of the forest.
This is very interesting and makes sense
Im sorry but your theory is incorrect.
Baelish was kicked out of Riverrun by the time Brandon left to find Rhaegar. Lord Hoster Tully kicked him out after the duel for Cat's hand and barred from returning. He was not present at Ned and Cat's wedding. Nor for Lysa and John Arryn. He may have slept with Lysa but did not sleep with Cat. (She confirms this)
Cat does not see Littlefinger from the time he's kicked out of Riverrun until she meets him in King's Landing. (She herself says so) Robb was born at Riverrun 9 months after Cat and Ned's wedding - which happened hurriedly not because Cat was pregnant, but to secure House Tully against The Iron Throne. (Houses Stark and Arryn married House Tully to form a core group of Robert's Rebellion ) Sansa was born at Winterfell about 4 years later. Littlefinger was in King's Landing.
Also, its mentioned several times that Robb, Sansa, Bran and Rickon all favour House Tully's look with only Arya being more in line with House Stark features - They're all Ned's kids.
What Littlefinger did, perhaps, as revenge for losing against Brandon, was tell him that his sister had been kidnapped and raped - how he came upon this information is as yet unknown. But once he saw how information wielded in such a matter could cause chaos and allow him a potential opening into things (he may have thought "I'll have Brandon killed another way and get Cat" ) led to him set things in motion years later after getting in a better societal position. And used Lysa's unrequited love to his advantage to start the war between Stark & Lannister.
@Gabriel Pinto I'm sure Baelish wouldn't have announced his return to Riverrun after getting forcibly removed. Also, I don't think Cat is a reliable source. I think there's some mental instability in her family considering Lyssa is crazy and Cat herself becomes Lady Stoneheart (I think that's the name).
I might be mistaken about which stark kids resemble which parent, but favoring Tulley more than Stark isn't proof that Robb and Sansa aren't Petyr's.
Man Rickon got hit with the puberty bat worse than Bran did seeing those two pictures side by side.
Hello Mr. Robert, just wanted to say you got me into reading Tolkien more in depth, and wanted to say thanks! Hope you're doing well
I think Mel will burn sheireen and when stannis finds out he’ll drown her and that’s why she fears patchface
King Bran will never not be stupid, I don't care what part of the War of the Roses it's based on.
Future historians and anthropologists will study the phenomena that was GoT before this book comes out (which implies that if it does, it will then of course be written by someone else, bearing the George R. R Martin pseudonym).
I am starting to doubt that George R.R. Martin can fit all the remaining story into two books. I mean, considering the amount of story told in A Dance with Dragons (rather few, in my opinion), a very large book... Isn't it possible that he will need three books to finish the entire story?
To be honest, I did not give a shit when the queen burned the Tarly traitors. Tyrion had done that a hundred fold at the Blackwater and nobody even flinched :/
@John Trevolter When no one tells you how you should proceed is easy not to flaunt moral values :/ Imagine an advisor telling the Acting Hand "yo, Tyrion, we should fight Stannis with swordsmen, be a total gangstah, mate".
Also, the Tarly traitos were not burned simply because they thought differently. No, they destroyed a loyal House to the queen. Me being slaughtered by my fellow neighbours, I would like my queen to obliterate the traitors.
@@Kriegerdammerung What nonsense is this.....That was battle when tyrion burned the blackwater....And no one will argue when dany burned jaime's army, because that was battle too. But to burn captured enemy who was loyal to throne besides a great lord and greatest battle commander in all the 7 kingdoms with his son without thinking what this action cost her is madness. Tarly should have been made captive in cell as tyrion suggested or beheaded by proper headsmen as custom decreed. But, NOO!!! The girl wanted to be a dragon.
@@manishkumardivekar4836 Then why Tarly did not arrest Cersei? I mean, she burned innocent people, the High Septon, the heir apparent of House Tyrell, the queen... all to avoid a trial of the gods. "No, let's support that murderer, the Kingslayer vouches for her".
I'm sorry, lass, Randyll Tarly reaped what he sowed: fire and blood :/
@@Kriegerdammerung the same reason why Tyrion, unsallied and dhothrki stood beside dany even after her injustice, Loyalty to their Queen... Stop calling tarly and the rest who supported cersei traitors. Robert baratheon won the crown by the law of combat. He defeated rheagar in fair battle and received submission of his troops...
@John Trevolter Daenerys - unlike the rest of the gang - did not forget she lived in feudalism, you know? Any king was a dictator, democracy is for the worker unions of 1920s (And we are talking about our planet).
Also, are we talking the same Daenerys who liberated THOUSANDS of slaves? but "liberated" for real, not like the US army saying. She also exacted justice by pinning wise masters to cruxes. She was the finest queen ever to live in that planet.
So far I can’t see a reason why I would like the idea of bran on the throne
Same. Never liked it.
SAME!🤮
"Apperantly the technical difficulties for bringing grown Direwolves to life were quite significant."
Now I'm no expert on special effects, but you can make a giant flying dragon look realistic but making a dog look bigger than it is was too hard???
Edit: spelling mistakes.
Shaggy dog can kill unicorns and ghost is out here chomping white walkers. Ramsey's pups aren't going to be a problem for the good boys of winterfell
As much miss I enjoyed the hold the door episode in S6 I wasnt fussed about the fact that there was a door in BR cave !!! Its a cave ffs why on gods earth would it the cave have a door in there unbelievable
In Skagos there are purely first man people aren't there? And as an island they would have been save during the long night, so there might also be some answers to be found...
Pretty sure the people on the Isle of skagos are cannibals, also unicorns live there.
Sounds like such a weird place lol
spent past month listing to books as i go to bed....has made me love the story even more... last night i had to stop and roll me one as i knew it was cathelin's red wedding chapter
Yeah, I’ve listened to each book at least twice and that chapter is still SO brutal and hard to listen to.
Eating their “horses” suure. Jojen said it was squirrel meat. Meera said rat meat. Bran did not care
Awesome video as always. Thank you, Robert
Hi In Deep Geek, Regarding Shireen, in ADWD Jon has a conversation with Val after she returns from finding Thormund, Val sees Shireen and mentions that she does not want Shireen to be near the baby and that she is dead, Jon says something like Grayscale can be stopped in children and Val answers that "You know nothing, Jon Snow" This whole exchange left me certain that Shireen will have to die, (why not burn??) maybe as the Grayscale flare up again, or perhaps as a compromise with the wildlings, just like the wildlings had to burn weirwood after the battle at the wall.
The White Walkers don’t even need the Dragon they ride giant spiders
. Who may get a Dragon is Euron Greyjoy.
And I say once again that Dani did not go dark in the later seasons. She did nothing that other characters have done. Killed no more than the Starks. .No darker than Jon Snow. The people of Westeros had every chance to leave but the stuck with Cerci.
I have to admit, I don’t like Bran becoming king.
The question for me is: is it that Bran ACTUALLY becomes king? Or in the books, is it symbolism that the Children basically won and are indirectly in control of the king
JustSomeGuyOnTheNet Exactly. But also there just seems to be better options for king than Bran, like Jaime. But I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
Garrett Baratheon Interesting thought. However, I think ultimately Bran will act of his own agency.
@@bensambo449 yes but he could be controlling some other king
Garrett Baratheon I’m not sure I’m following.
11:50 - I mean, who is Littlefinger actually going to promise to Harry? Sansa Stark of Winterfell? Or Alayne Baelish, legitimized bastard of House Baelish, heir to Harrenhall and the Riverlands?
Maybe that's why Littlefinger thought he needed a high title to marry Lysa in the first place. Not to make himself suitable to marry but more to make a theoretical legitimized bastard daughter suitable to marry off once he killed Lysa.
And since Alayne Baelish doesn't actually exist as a person potentially Littlefinger could marry her off, get whatever he wants from Harry the Heir and then as soon as he's gotten what he wanted have Sansa wash her hair and become Sansa once again. There would be no annulment (for which he'd need the High Septon's permission) or anything like that necessary to end the marriage because the marriage wouldn't ever have been legally binding since it didn't happen between Harry and a person who actually exists.
So this allows Littlefinger to trade an Alayne marriage for whatever he wants from Harry while at the same time keeping Sansa for himself.