Not just metals, but craft products and also building and roadmaking services -- there is an elaborate explanation of this in History of Middle-earth Vol 12.
Galadriel being like semi-in love with Sauron is so unforgivable. Your phrase about doing too much and yet not doing enough is spot on in every way. Everything about the show is misdirected.
@@mikehenderson42 there have been so many bad ones in recent years. the witcher was a big disappointment for me. similar to halo, all they had to do was have the main character fight monsters atleast once every other episode and they'd have had a success and they couldn't manage to do it.
You hit the nail on the head, Galadriel mourning her brother hard and heavy but not a tear or an ounce of vengeance for her “dead” husband Celeborn. Really?!?
@@karenhall4645 don’t be surprised if at some point Elrond casually drops the bombshell that he’s married to Celebriant who is missing with her father. This series is so weird at times.
As a fan of the ASOIAF books and watcher of GOT, I think it’s pretty clear that Galadriel and Elrond are end game here. Her husband and daughter have been cut to make the cast more manageable and because the writers assumed people would prefer to see Galerond than canon.
@@dancingdragon3 also a fan of GRRM and his works. If that’s their end game then that’s really sad and disrespectful to the viewers. Not everyone has read Tolkien but millions have watched Peter Jackson’s adaptation of LOTR, so they should know that Galerond would negate all that is to come. Shameful.
They’re really paying the price for having wasted so much of season 1 on Halbrand’s buddy cop adventure with Galadriel. If they hadn’t been so obsessed with structuring season 1 around the Halbrand=Sauron mystery, we could have had Sauron infiltrate Eregion much earlier and none of the Annatar stuff would feel as rushed as it does. The way they’ve structured it, it feels like the show’s main focus is on the Galadriel-Sauron “cosmic connection” bs, not the actual story they’re supposed to be adapting.
The Stranger thread also has been a complete waste of time. He has done nothing to advance the plot in a full season and a half. Better to have introduced him much later.
From everything that Sauron did to the Elves in the 1st Age, the Elves absolutely knew of Sauron and discovering Sauron was active in Middle-Earth would have instantly raised a massive alarm. As it says in the Valaquenta: "Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void." The writing in this show is just so bad.
Second-age elves would have known Sauron's name and deeds. The Lay of Lethian was a popular tale. Eonwë probably would have let the remaining elves know about Sauron's flight when he granted the pardon to the Noldor. So the remaining ones would have taken Sauron seriously.
I agree with it being weird that Elrond and Galadriel are like buddy buddy friends who grew up together. Never once is that alluded to in the books. Besides the fact that Galadriel was born in Valinor during the Years of the Trees and Elrond was not born until later in the First Age. She is hundreds of years older than him.
Probably another mechanism in Mordor, apparently all Sauron related terraforming happens in an instant, whether they want to freeze something or cover it in darkness...
Am I tripping but they never said Celeborn was dead he was just missing or on some mission or something. Not only that but hes obviously alive in Lord of the Rings
Its still bad fanfiction. Sauron is not the mighthy evil almost natural force of evil, but a blondie with a wig who can be killed by a handfull og Orcs until he turns to black goo, eating insects for 1t00 years. It is so pathetic. Galafriel is a thiesty brat.I stop watching this after the first three episodes that where a terrible slog
Dear Miss Neapolitana, despite the flaws I'm invested enough in the outcome of this fanfic to continuing watching it. I thing the writers did an acceptable job to explain how Saubrand has been accepted by Kalle Dimbroe again considering the awful premises of the first season. The actor not so much. Gil-Galad was played even more awful, his static attempts to impersonate the gravity of an elven high king whilst waving his forefinger around was really bad. However, I've got definitely more fun watching this compared to the first season. I know, that's a _very_ low bar. 😉
The whole inexplicable business with the dying tree is just there to provide a 'ticking clock', a common enough device. But the writers are so inept at portraying the passage of time that the device utterly fails to create tension, and the whole _mithril_ 'origin story' connected with it is so preposterous (even without the contradiction to Tolkien) that we never really believe in the urgency.
My Guess is the Dark wizard is one of the Blues and "The Stranger" is the other Blue. In the lore and letters, they came to M.E. together, travelled East on a mission to oppose Sauron's expansion there, and in some versions, failed, and in some versions set up cults. So, "The Stranger" only just arriving by meteor, long after "BadBlue" has set up his cults is a bit of a problem. I expect that these hack writers plan to have the Blues fall out and have BadBlue kill GoodBlue, who is then sent back (to the West with a memory wipe for some reason!). Also, the fact the NazGals refered to "The Stranger" as "THE Istari" implies that they (and their leader) had some reason to believe that there was a possibility that an Istari might be coming (back). Only someone that had recently killed/banished one would think that (they said THE Istari, not AN Istari). They're also setting up the longest hackneyed Shymalanian "What-a-twist!" fakeout by hinting hard for two entire seasons that he is Gandalf. That "twist" nonsesne was tired 20 years ago when Shymalan killed it, but apparently it's an essential part Payne and McKay's toolkit.
I thought he'd be a blue wizard at first. But this show seems intent on making the most obvious and least interesting choices. So I'm putting money on Gandalf.
@@cholst1 Eactly my thinking. II think these two really are that oblivious (to think a "twist" when you completely control the narrative is any kind of achievement). Honestly, I sometimes think that to construct this show they wrote down a long list of the most hackneyed tv/movie tropes and hung a dim five year old's script over them (or a adult deviod of critical thinking or object permanence).
@@Lios959 Maybe, but I do think Payne&McKay are oblivious enough to believe leaning hard into the "what a twist" device is something other than lazy and insulting to the audience.
My guess is still Saruman. Not done in any way clever, just as a cheap shock at his eventual name drop. The writers seem to love redeeming 3rd age villains, and the actor has a Christopher Lee lankyness to him.
"IT makes it even more weird if Celebrian hasn't been born yet." Dude, this is modern Hollywood. I'm not going to elaborate any further, but the phrase, "Okay, Gr00mer," exists in our modern parlance for a reason.
Just glad I didn't pay for it or have to watch it. 2 episodes of season 1 was more than enough for me. The youtube critics being much more harsh than you is more fun to watch than the actual show and the phrase ' Killed by his own hat' from Charlie Hopkinsons 'Gandalf' is just so funny and spot on for Saurons initial demise before he became Venom.
You don't see it as a little lame that you hate a show so much, that you won't watch an 8 hour season but you'll watch hours of TH-camrs hating on it.. look in the mirror and touch some grass dude
@@alexs4392 Nah I'm Happy enough as things are and didn't some say the touch grass thing over that other smash hit TV show The Acolyte. It seems a stock in trade insult to say when defending terrible TV shows.
20:35 Actually he said Rhûn AND Harad where the stars are strange. It makes sense there are strange stars in Harad (south) never seen in the north, but in Rhûn the stars are supposed to be exactly the same.
I think the purpose of the stone singing is to find safe paths to dig so that they don’t lose dwarves lives to cave ins. I think they can hear the resonance through the stone and sense where it would be stable to dig and where it wouldn’t be, because of their spiritual connection with the stone. I think this is one of the most clever and creative original ideas the show runners have had so far, and I think it works so well because it fits in with Tolkien’s depiction of the dwarves as beings who were originally created from stone. I do wish the show was more attentive to the timeline. I think Cirdan shaving represents a second youth he’s been granted by the ring of power. Notice the color of his hair brightens after putting on the ring too. “The elven sickness” I don’t think it’s a sickness at all. Their spirits are fading, which is true in the legendarium as well. The show just dials it up to 11. Remember, after the one ring is destroyed and the elven rings lose their power, the elven realms begin to fade and the elves all leave. I’m with you on the Celeborn issue. No fckin idea what they’re doing with that story arc. I’m betting that he will either show up on a ship from valinor alongside Glorfindel as two resurrected elves, or else Galadriel will find him in lothlorien whenever she ends up there, and there will be some lazy explanation like “you thought I died? How strange, I thought you died!” I do think she’s going to end up in Lothlorien by the end of this season or the beginning of next. I think she will probably lead the refugees of Eregion there through Moria. The cult knows what an Istar is because their leader is one of them. I’d put money that the dark wizard and the stranger are blue wizards. And if the harfoots emigrated out of the east, even a thousand years ago, the people there would still haves tales about them. Or maybe there are still tribes of halflings in the east. “Gandalf kills the kids” 😂 He goes east because the only thing he remembered when he fell out of the sky is a constellation in the east. He’s going there to meet with the other blue wizard who is presumably there to guide him, but who himself seems to have already gone astray from his mission to establish opposition to sauron in the east. I think the istari are called wizards by ordinary folk because they don’t understand what they are. They think they’re just magical men. Very few even in the actual canon know that the istari are basically incarnate angels. Halbrand’s transition to Anatar and his dynamic with Celebrimbor is certainly the best thing they’ve done yet. I can completely buy celebrimbor’s trust of anatar. When you’re visited by a divine being, do you question them? Given Celebrimbor’s knowledge and understanding of the world, what else could this guy be except a maiar sent by the valar? An angel sent by the gods? Sauron inflicted a lot of suffering on the elves in the first age. But Gil-galad doesn’t think he’s a big threat right now because, like you said, he doesn’t have an army or any allies. And maybe he chooses stealth and only sends two scouts because he doesn’t want word to get out that sauron is back so that the men who used to serve him won’t rally back to his side.
@@eduleal true, at least according to the book lore. We don’t really know the timeline in the show, since they’re compressing things. Men in the southlands clearly “remember” sauron. But probably in the sense that their ancestors served him and have quietly passed his dark gospel down through generations.
@@moon-moth1 I don’t think it’s “one of the few” elements that feel lore accurate. Almost every decision they make has some backing in the lore. Some decisions are just a bit more imaginative than others. I’m actually impressed with how even decisions I don’t really like have solid grounds in the lore to stand on. Like I’m not thrilled with the story of the silmaril magic going into the mithril, but it is canon that one of the silmarils was lost into the earth. They took that piece of lore and absolutely ran wild with it. But at it’s core the idea is there and plausible within the world Tolkien wrote.
The portrayal of Celebrimbor is so unbelievably bad. He's a doddering, senile fool. He is Galadriel's nephew, but he looks and acts twice as old as Cirdan. And why? I do not see what the advantage is in that choice. Reading the books, I saw Celebrimbor as young, fiery, and impetuous. That seems consistent with someone who is naturally talented above their peers and driven to create. This guy seems lost and confused in even the simplest conversations.
Does it bother anyone else the Celebrimbor doesn't have black hair? Both Feanor and Curufin had black hair. Instead we got a middle-aged looking man with light brown hair. Galadriel is older than Celebrimbor but Morfydd Clark is 35 years old while Charles Edwards is 54
"It might be thought that, since the Eldar do not (as Men deem) grow old in body, they may bring forth children at any time in the ages of their lives." Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs "The Quendian “growth” and “life” may be compared with that of Men, so long as it is remembered that (a) its rate of “expenditure” was far slower than the human, especially after achievement of maturity, and (b) that when the Quendi spoke of their bodies “waning” it did not mean that these became decrepit or that they felt the oncoming of senility or death." NoMe, 1, XII
Just a thought, when Sauron takes his human form again he's in Forodwaith and when he meets the guy with the Southlands heraldry pouch thing that's down in proto-Mordor. So that implies a passage of time to get between each place meaning potentially, and stress potentially, he could have gone about masterminding the decay of the tree in Lindon, setting up Kazhad-dum earthquake stuff or whatever. There's the potential for it to happen as he's not straight into human form and then on to the boat / raft where Galadriel pops up in season 1, if it's revealed he has been planning everything all along it might land a little better, but we'll see.
The best theory I have seen about the two wizards is that's it's an amalgamation of both Blue Wizard plot lines presented. With the stranger representative of them working for good in the East and the other evil.
At one point in this episode when they're talking about the Stranger's dream, Nori refers to the branch in the dream as a "gand". Seems like foreshadowing to me...
Just two quick points about the stars: 1. Aragorn said that they were strange IN THE SOUTH, not in the East. 2. On a Round Earth, the stars are the same on the same latitude, since the planet rotates. So going to East does not change your sky (just the timezone). On a Flat Earth, you should get the same stellar dome all the time anyway, so again, it doesn't make sense.
The basic problem is that they don't want to tell a story. They want to have a success. They just want to milk the brand of LOTR but J.R.R. Tolkien had a story to tell, he wanted to say something and express himself in authentic artistry. He didn't care too much about the outside reaction, he genuinely enjoyed doing the thing in of itself and Peter Jackson as well. That is the difference.
"we have better writing in our dnd campaigns" EXACTLY!!! I keep telling people that my characters and campaigns fit as part of the existing world instead of trying to change it to my vision. And most dnd adventures are way more entertaining and makes more sense than this show
If Henry Cavill walked and said “hey babe, let’s go to Eregion.” I would take back everything I have said about this show. But Cavill wouldn’t touch this with a 35 foot pole
This show is just a, woke project wait and see the orcs will not be evil just misunderstood and persecuted by the other races because of how they look and Sauron will be the one trying to make all right with the world ill bet by end of this season I won't be far off on what they have done
How do they let Durin get punked? It's so insulting to treat an important character from such an important lineage like he's a spoiled noble and a wimp who can't defend himself or is not respected by the common dwarf.
It's clear that the people behind the Rings of Power don't know the lore of Tolkien's universe. It's like they're trying too hard to make it a D&D universe and too little to stay with the book lore.
How did you not talk about the Ring poem vision Galadriel gets during the Commander briefing? How does this poem even make sense in this timeline? Did she just got spoiled with Sauron's plan?
The show assumes the ease of modern communication in a world based on medieval Europe. How did the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm even know about Mount Doom? They're separated by hundreds of miles and they literally live under a mountain and are not exactly connected with the outside world
To me Saruman makes the most sense as the stranger, and the evil sorcerer should eventually become the Witch King. Having said that, they will probably make the stranger be Gandalf just because they think that is what people will want.
I have no idea what each individual plot going. It's like soap opera with each separate relationship that never converge and should belong to a their own show.
Recently its been suggested that anyone who reads LOTR is a ultra right winger..😂 No..we believe in the struggle between good and evil and we are on the side of good. The left hates the true fans of LOTR.
All the writers had to do was write a good, coherent plot line. Middle earth should take care of the rest. But instead, we have all of the world building and eye candy without an actual story. Oh, and I can see why Galadriel went off to rule her own place. Gil-Galad acts like the CEO of Linden and she’s an employee on her PIP. So far, Sauron is the only one who understands her frustration. Which is weird. But not weirder than that conversation she has with Elrond where he uses a lot of s*xual innuendo to tell her how she rode Sauron. Are these writers including their own personal stories in these conversations? It’s seedy.
Dude I think we need to relish in the cringe. Its like drowning, we have to let the air in. This show is soo bad that its entertaining for me to hear experts crap on it.
I hated the stone singing and while I didn't mind Desa in S1, she's annoying thus far. Then I catch myself and remember that ROP has nothing to do with Tolkien or his universe. It's fan fiction written by someone who has only seen the movies.
Can you do perhaps different graphics aside from the yapping? I appreciate the conversation but an extra five minutes for different stills or even a moving audio bar would be an improvement. You can spare five minutes of editing the visual
The writing for Sauron coming back was amateur. Its like a teen disney movie or Hallmark. ‘Oh Galadriel didnt tell you the rings worked?’. Celebrimbor says he wont deal with Halbrand but falls for the most childish attempt to gain trust. Embarrassing
Amazon really destroyed Middle Earth alot quicker and more efficiently than any dark lord could. The show has check all of Hollyweirds intersectional DEI boxes. A lack of strong male characters really makes the show unbalanced and unrealistic and totally not Toilken! I think the final scene in this series is when Sauron removes his helmet its JEFF BEZOS underneath it.
You can’t say, oh, how Sauron could kill those Lindon soldiers so easily, and then, ok, Sauron is a maiar, but Celebrimbor have to be the dumbest elf on earth in order to trust in him… Guys, ROP has many problems, but these two aren’t two of them… First, he’s a maiar (in full, not like Gandalf), and second, Sauron is playing with Celebrimbor’s ambition. End. To be honest, I didn’t think that they could scape from that Halbran’s storyline, and they did it really good.
Celebrimbor can't even make a proper umbrella .... look at it in the épisode he is soaking wet under is unberalla 😂😂 the best crafter of his time can't make a proper umbrella let that sink in 😂
I decided after 15 minutes into episode 1 I would not be watching this nonsense after how bad season 1 was and so I have not seen anything beyond sludge Sauron so thank you guys for a. Reviewing this garbage and b. Confirming for me I made a good decision by turning it off.
Cirdan shaving left me wondering how difficult it was for him to acquire the tools needed. How often do Elves shave if he’s the only one ever described to even have facial hair?
Dude they should just reset. So many bad plots they just can't fix it. They would be better off taking down these 2 seasons and starting from scratch for the other 3 they promised 😅
Again I agree with your take on this. It is not a catastrophic episode, we can see they are trying hard to re-adjust for the errors made in season 1, but still far from that. The Galadriel plot on the other hand is still a total disaster.
Also, the connection between the Dwarves and Music: Getting some ELDER SCROLLS DWEMER vibes from that. "Tonal Architecture"? Even though I don't remember much from the lore about that with Tolkien's Dwarves, I'll give them this: it's clever. Also, ties back to Tolkien's own creation account.
@@realstarscream I asked Brave Search on their browser: Galadriel's Statement on the Fate of Her Husband in The Rings of Power According to the search results, Galadriel mentions her husband Celeborn in episode 7 of “The Rings of Power” while speaking with Theo. She recounts her experiences, including the loss of her brother Finrod, and implies that Celeborn is also gone, stating: “…the forces of darkness took my brother, and they took my husband…” Interpretation While Galadriel explicitly mentions Celeborn’s disappearance, she does not explicitly say he is dead. The phrase “took” can imply capture, imprisonment, or loss, rather than definitive death. This ambiguity leaves room for interpretation, and the show’s creative liberties may ultimately reveal Celeborn’s fate in future episodes. Contrasting Opinions Some sources suggest that Celeborn might be alive, referencing his appearance in Lothlórien during The Fellowship of the Ring and his role in Middle-earth’s history. This raises questions about Galadriel’s perception of his fate and potential reunions in the story to come. In conclusion, Galadriel in “The Rings of Power” does not explicitly state that her husband Celeborn is dead, instead implying his disappearance or loss. The show’s narrative has left his fate open to interpretation, with some possibilities hinting at his potential survival.
What I didn't like either in season 2 was that they made Morgoth two different people but he is the same person he never took form of a human or elf in the book he never took form just of Shadow. He could have taken form if he wanted but he didn't want valar to find him and kill him.
Didn't Tolkien mess about with timelines in The Two Towers? Books 3 & 4 in particular have overlapping time periods with one groups' story, say Merry and Pippin, lagging another, catching up, overtaking, then the story switching to a different part of the tale with the 3 Hunters, or Frodo. Imagine chopping that up and splicing it back together in a series of interlacing episodes, and I'm sure we'd be criticising the Professor for confusing us just as much.
I disagree, I believe Appendix B contains a timeline of the LOTR. It is a bit confusing at first, but in hindsight it is generally clear that only a few days go by from the beginning of Two Towers to the end.
@@MenoftheWest yes, but the way that Tolkien writes it, without reference to the apendices, the reader isn't always sure of the precise chronology. One storyline will continue to a concluding point, then we'll jump back in time to some other storyline. Jackson did "fix" this for the films, but maybe the RoP lot are playing with the chronology too. It's not uncommon...I rewatched Pulp Fiction the other day!!
I can't understand why people have a problem with the Galadriel-Elrond-Celebrian thing. Galadriel was thousands of years older than Elrond. He was only ~350 years older than Celebrian. Nothing weird there. G & E are friends, not lovers! Incidentally, I married the daughter of my old girlfriend from schooldays, so what's the big deal?
This really doesn't feel like the LOTR movies, it's like a fan adaption that just misses the mark. What a shame. The silver lining is me being the fan of the world so i'm just curious what they're doing but it feels like my fandom is being used against me lmao.
I don't understand why you are so hung up on the timeline. In this series, it is enough to know the precedence and postcedence of events. What is important is the causal link. I don't think it is necessary to know the elapsed time.
The only thing I dislike is your negative and arrogant reviews. I like your content otherwise, but please stop pandering to a rather vocal minority and bashing a show that has more pros than cons before I'm forced to unsubscribe.
The more they humanize Galadriel instead of making her the goddess we know from the books, the BETTER it is for us to empathize with her. You can't empathize with a perfect god creature. The fact that she had feelings for Halbrand will pay dividends in the future. BRILLIANT move by the writers.
I strongly believe that you guys would hate anything made today, even by Tolkien himself. If you had contact with like, The Hobbit, today, you'd hate it. Almost all the nickpicks are things that often happens in the books. Imagine your reaction with the troll's riddles, Glorfindel praying to the river, Gandalf returning as the White. All of this happens in months, it's a footnote in the lore. You go looking for problems. I remember the trailer analysis, lots of complaints about the similarity between Halbrand and Annatar. Anything needs to be clear and told from the beggining with you, thats not how a story works.
You treat Amazon's ROP like it's actually Tolkein, or something. This filth shouldn't be on your channel. Turned you off two seconds in. Thumbs down How utterly disappointing
Wtf dude. This show is simply bad, which means most of the channels are going to have negative reviews. Thats simple logic. PS: Stop being rude, child!
No, because the show is sh*t, ergo there isn't anyone who is going to tongue Amazon's ahole for you. If you think this channel is a bunch of aholes just doing this for clicks, you don't know anything about it or LOTR.
MOTW IS giving it a fair chance. But the show is garbage. If you don't like being told the truth about it, that's a you problem. Go watch Nerd of the Rings; pretty sure he got paid to shill this show.
One of the biggest things I didn’t love about the dwarf plot line is the lack of conversation about trading mined gold and metals for food.
Not just metals, but craft products and also building and roadmaking services -- there is an elaborate explanation of this in History of Middle-earth Vol 12.
Galadriel being like semi-in love with Sauron is so unforgivable.
Your phrase about doing too much and yet not doing enough is spot on in every way. Everything about the show is misdirected.
OMG I agree like she was never in love with him. At times she feared Sauron but she was never semi in love with him.
Of course they would make evil and good do that. Woke crap.
I completely agree and how they managed to make Sauron a more likeable character than Galadriel at the end of season 1 boggles the mind.
I feel like the halo showrunner, and these folks made a cult to deliver weirdly bad adaptations
@@mikehenderson42 there have been so many bad ones in recent years. the witcher was a big disappointment for me. similar to halo, all they had to do was have the main character fight monsters atleast once every other episode and they'd have had a success and they couldn't manage to do it.
You hit the nail on the head, Galadriel mourning her brother hard and heavy but not a tear or an ounce of vengeance for her “dead” husband Celeborn. Really?!?
I can't help but wonder if that scene where she mentions Celeborn was a later edition because viewers were wondering about him.
@@karenhall4645 don’t be surprised if at some point Elrond casually drops the bombshell that he’s married to Celebriant who is missing with her father. This series is so weird at times.
As a fan of the ASOIAF books and watcher of GOT, I think it’s pretty clear that Galadriel and Elrond are end game here. Her husband and daughter have been cut to make the cast more manageable and because the writers assumed people would prefer to see Galerond than canon.
@@dancingdragon3 also a fan of GRRM and his works. If that’s their end game then that’s really sad and disrespectful to the viewers. Not everyone has read Tolkien but millions have watched Peter Jackson’s adaptation of LOTR, so they should know that Galerond would negate all that is to come. Shameful.
Because Sauron was not personally involved, he was killed on the battlefield, so Galadriel thinks.
They’re really paying the price for having wasted so much of season 1 on Halbrand’s buddy cop adventure with Galadriel. If they hadn’t been so obsessed with structuring season 1 around the Halbrand=Sauron mystery, we could have had Sauron infiltrate Eregion much earlier and none of the Annatar stuff would feel as rushed as it does. The way they’ve structured it, it feels like the show’s main focus is on the Galadriel-Sauron “cosmic connection” bs, not the actual story they’re supposed to be adapting.
'Buddy cop adventure with Galadriel'!? LMAO 🤣😂
The Stranger thread also has been a complete waste of time. He has done nothing to advance the plot in a full season and a half. Better to have introduced him much later.
From everything that Sauron did to the Elves in the 1st Age, the Elves absolutely knew of Sauron and discovering Sauron was active in Middle-Earth would have instantly raised a massive alarm. As it says in the Valaquenta:
"Among those of his servants that have names the greatest was that spirit
whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. In his beginning he was of
the Maiar of Aule, and he remained mighty in the lore of that people. In all the
deeds of Melkor the Morgoth upon Arda, in his vast works and in the deceits of
his cunning, Sauron had a part, and was only less evil than his master in that for
long he served another and not himself. But in after years he rose like a shadow
of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same
ruinous path down into the Void."
The writing in this show is just so bad.
Second-age elves would have known Sauron's name and deeds. The Lay of Lethian was a popular tale. Eonwë probably would have let the remaining elves know about Sauron's flight when he granted the pardon to the Noldor. So the remaining ones would have taken Sauron seriously.
I agree with it being weird that Elrond and Galadriel are like buddy buddy friends who grew up together. Never once is that alluded to in the books. Besides the fact that Galadriel was born in Valinor during the Years of the Trees and Elrond was not born until later in the First Age. She is hundreds of years older than him.
One thing that can’t slip my mind. How fast are they gonna build Barad Dur haha
Two weeks off screen.
Knowing these writers they are going to build it from some earthquake that starts a rube Goldberg invention that is activated by a broken helm.
Probably another mechanism in Mordor, apparently all Sauron related terraforming happens in an instant, whether they want to freeze something or cover it in darkness...
"I did some off screen mining..." vibes
Same with Gondor and Anor. Compressed timeline is one of the biggest weak points of the series
Am I tripping but they never said Celeborn was dead he was just missing or on some mission or something. Not only that but hes obviously alive in Lord of the Rings
yeah thats what i thought she said, and she told that to Theo when they were together during the orange episode
Without Celeborn there is no Galadriel's daughter who marries Elrond who then has a daughter Arwen who meets Aragorn....
Its still bad fanfiction. Sauron is not the mighthy evil almost natural force of evil, but a blondie with a wig who can be killed by a handfull og Orcs until he turns to black goo, eating insects for 1t00 years. It is so pathetic. Galafriel is a thiesty brat.I stop watching this after the first three episodes that where a terrible slog
Dear Miss Neapolitana, despite the flaws I'm invested enough in the outcome of this fanfic to continuing watching it. I thing the writers did an acceptable job to explain how Saubrand has been accepted by Kalle Dimbroe again considering the awful premises of the first season. The actor not so much.
Gil-Galad was played even more awful, his static attempts to impersonate the gravity of an elven high king whilst waving his forefinger around was really bad.
However, I've got definitely more fun watching this compared to the first season. I know, that's a _very_ low bar. 😉
Based on the way they treated Finrod, I'm not surprised Sauron is this soft. After all, these are male characters and ROP only champions the women.
In the books, Sauron gets defeated by a girl and a dog. Atleast here, it's a hundred orcs.
The whole inexplicable business with the dying tree is just there to provide a 'ticking clock', a common enough device. But the writers are so inept at portraying the passage of time that the device utterly fails to create tension, and the whole _mithril_ 'origin story' connected with it is so preposterous (even without the contradiction to Tolkien) that we never really believe in the urgency.
My Guess is the Dark wizard is one of the Blues and "The Stranger" is the other Blue. In the lore and letters, they came to M.E. together, travelled East on a mission to oppose Sauron's expansion there, and in some versions, failed, and in some versions set up cults. So, "The Stranger" only just arriving by meteor, long after "BadBlue" has set up his cults is a bit of a problem. I expect that these hack writers plan to have the Blues fall out and have BadBlue kill GoodBlue, who is then sent back (to the West with a memory wipe for some reason!). Also, the fact the NazGals refered to "The Stranger" as "THE Istari" implies that they (and their leader) had some reason to believe that there was a possibility that an Istari might be coming (back). Only someone that had recently killed/banished one would think that (they said THE Istari, not AN Istari).
They're also setting up the longest hackneyed Shymalanian "What-a-twist!" fakeout by hinting hard for two entire seasons that he is Gandalf. That "twist" nonsesne was tired 20 years ago when Shymalan killed it, but apparently it's an essential part Payne and McKay's toolkit.
"Haha look we fooled you by leanings 99.9% into Gandalf, but it's not, hahahaha" - probably them.
I thought he'd be a blue wizard at first. But this show seems intent on making the most obvious and least interesting choices. So I'm putting money on Gandalf.
@@cholst1 Eactly my thinking. II think these two really are that oblivious (to think a "twist" when you completely control the narrative is any kind of achievement).
Honestly, I sometimes think that to construct this show they wrote down a long list of the most hackneyed tv/movie tropes and hung a dim five year old's script over them (or a adult deviod of critical thinking or object permanence).
@@Lios959 Maybe, but I do think Payne&McKay are oblivious enough to believe leaning hard into the "what a twist" device is something other than lazy and insulting to the audience.
My guess is still Saruman. Not done in any way clever, just as a cheap shock at his eventual name drop. The writers seem to love redeeming 3rd age villains, and the actor has a Christopher Lee lankyness to him.
Back to back to back? Guess im not sleeping tonight!
"IT makes it even more weird if Celebrian hasn't been born yet." Dude, this is modern Hollywood. I'm not going to elaborate any further, but the phrase, "Okay, Gr00mer," exists in our modern parlance for a reason.
Just glad I didn't pay for it or have to watch it. 2 episodes of season 1 was more than enough for me. The youtube critics being much more harsh than you is more fun to watch than the actual show and the phrase ' Killed by his own hat' from Charlie Hopkinsons 'Gandalf' is just so funny and spot on for Saurons initial demise before he became Venom.
You don't see it as a little lame that you hate a show so much, that you won't watch an 8 hour season but you'll watch hours of TH-camrs hating on it.. look in the mirror and touch some grass dude
@@alexs4392 Nah I'm Happy enough as things are and didn't some say the touch grass thing over that other smash hit TV show The Acolyte. It seems a stock in trade insult to say when defending terrible TV shows.
what an amazing channel!! so much for a billion dollars of Real tolkien.
20:35 Actually he said Rhûn AND Harad where the stars are strange.
It makes sense there are strange stars in Harad (south) never seen in the north, but in Rhûn the stars are supposed to be exactly the same.
I think the purpose of the stone singing is to find safe paths to dig so that they don’t lose dwarves lives to cave ins. I think they can hear the resonance through the stone and sense where it would be stable to dig and where it wouldn’t be, because of their spiritual connection with the stone. I think this is one of the most clever and creative original ideas the show runners have had so far, and I think it works so well because it fits in with Tolkien’s depiction of the dwarves as beings who were originally created from stone.
I do wish the show was more attentive to the timeline.
I think Cirdan shaving represents a second youth he’s been granted by the ring of power. Notice the color of his hair brightens after putting on the ring too.
“The elven sickness” I don’t think it’s a sickness at all. Their spirits are fading, which is true in the legendarium as well. The show just dials it up to 11. Remember, after the one ring is destroyed and the elven rings lose their power, the elven realms begin to fade and the elves all leave.
I’m with you on the Celeborn issue. No fckin idea what they’re doing with that story arc. I’m betting that he will either show up on a ship from valinor alongside Glorfindel as two resurrected elves, or else Galadriel will find him in lothlorien whenever she ends up there, and there will be some lazy explanation like “you thought I died? How strange, I thought you died!” I do think she’s going to end up in Lothlorien by the end of this season or the beginning of next. I think she will probably lead the refugees of Eregion there through Moria.
The cult knows what an Istar is because their leader is one of them. I’d put money that the dark wizard and the stranger are blue wizards. And if the harfoots emigrated out of the east, even a thousand years ago, the people there would still haves tales about them. Or maybe there are still tribes of halflings in the east.
“Gandalf kills the kids” 😂
He goes east because the only thing he remembered when he fell out of the sky is a constellation in the east. He’s going there to meet with the other blue wizard who is presumably there to guide him, but who himself seems to have already gone astray from his mission to establish opposition to sauron in the east.
I think the istari are called wizards by ordinary folk because they don’t understand what they are. They think they’re just magical men. Very few even in the actual canon know that the istari are basically incarnate angels.
Halbrand’s transition to Anatar and his dynamic with Celebrimbor is certainly the best thing they’ve done yet. I can completely buy celebrimbor’s trust of anatar. When you’re visited by a divine being, do you question them? Given Celebrimbor’s knowledge and understanding of the world, what else could this guy be except a maiar sent by the valar? An angel sent by the gods?
Sauron inflicted a lot of suffering on the elves in the first age. But Gil-galad doesn’t think he’s a big threat right now because, like you said, he doesn’t have an army or any allies. And maybe he chooses stealth and only sends two scouts because he doesn’t want word to get out that sauron is back so that the men who used to serve him won’t rally back to his side.
Good analysis but one key issue in the final point - men who used to serve Sauron in theory have been dead for generations!
@@eduleal true, at least according to the book lore. We don’t really know the timeline in the show, since they’re compressing things. Men in the southlands clearly “remember” sauron. But probably in the sense that their ancestors served him and have quietly passed his dark gospel down through generations.
@@moon-moth1 I don’t think it’s “one of the few” elements that feel lore accurate. Almost every decision they make has some backing in the lore. Some decisions are just a bit more imaginative than others. I’m actually impressed with how even decisions I don’t really like have solid grounds in the lore to stand on. Like I’m not thrilled with the story of the silmaril magic going into the mithril, but it is canon that one of the silmarils was lost into the earth. They took that piece of lore and absolutely ran wild with it. But at it’s core the idea is there and plausible within the world Tolkien wrote.
The portrayal of Celebrimbor is so unbelievably bad. He's a doddering, senile fool. He is Galadriel's nephew, but he looks and acts twice as old as Cirdan. And why? I do not see what the advantage is in that choice. Reading the books, I saw Celebrimbor as young, fiery, and impetuous. That seems consistent with someone who is naturally talented above their peers and driven to create. This guy seems lost and confused in even the simplest conversations.
The visuals are absolutely beautiful. I can see where the budget is going.
Does it bother anyone else the Celebrimbor doesn't have black hair? Both Feanor and Curufin had black hair. Instead we got a middle-aged looking man with light brown hair. Galadriel is older than Celebrimbor but Morfydd Clark is 35 years old while Charles Edwards is 54
"It might be thought that, since the Eldar do not (as Men deem) grow old in body, they may bring forth children at any time in the ages of their lives."
Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs
"The Quendian “growth” and “life” may be compared with that of Men, so long as it is remembered that (a) its rate of “expenditure” was far slower than the human, especially after achievement of maturity, and (b) that when the Quendi spoke of their bodies “waning” it did not mean that these became decrepit or that they felt the oncoming of senility or death."
NoMe, 1, XII
Does anyone really like how Galadriel is portrayed? Also her acting is really bad 😔
This is just hate. Morfydd i’s not a bad actress, she portraying Galadriel as she’s written on the script. That’s all.
The script is bad making Galadriel crap. Besides miscasts, I'm not blaming the actors for this mess.
I’ve seen the actress in other stuff and she was great in those so I think it’s definitely poor writing/directing more than anything else.
@@Don9872, could be. I've honestly never seen her in other roles, but here the acting is really bad. For sure, the writing doesn't help, either!
No her acting is soo bad I agree it was terrible
Just a thought, when Sauron takes his human form again he's in Forodwaith and when he meets the guy with the Southlands heraldry pouch thing that's down in proto-Mordor.
So that implies a passage of time to get between each place meaning potentially, and stress potentially, he could have gone about masterminding the decay of the tree in Lindon, setting up Kazhad-dum earthquake stuff or whatever.
There's the potential for it to happen as he's not straight into human form and then on to the boat / raft where Galadriel pops up in season 1, if it's revealed he has been planning everything all along it might land a little better, but we'll see.
The best theory I have seen about the two wizards is that's it's an amalgamation of both Blue Wizard plot lines presented. With the stranger representative of them working for good in the East and the other evil.
I didn't sleep in the first two episodes so that's a positive !!
At one point in this episode when they're talking about the Stranger's dream, Nori refers to the branch in the dream as a "gand". Seems like foreshadowing to me...
Just two quick points about the stars:
1. Aragorn said that they were strange IN THE SOUTH, not in the East.
2. On a Round Earth, the stars are the same on the same latitude, since the planet rotates. So going to East does not change your sky (just the timezone). On a Flat Earth, you should get the same stellar dome all the time anyway, so again, it doesn't make sense.
The basic problem is that they don't want to tell a story. They want to have a success. They just want to milk the brand of LOTR but J.R.R. Tolkien had a story to tell, he wanted to say something and express himself in authentic artistry. He didn't care too much about the outside reaction, he genuinely enjoyed doing the thing in of itself and Peter Jackson as well. That is the difference.
"we have better writing in our dnd campaigns" EXACTLY!!! I keep telling people that my characters and campaigns fit as part of the existing world instead of trying to change it to my vision. And most dnd adventures are way more entertaining and makes more sense than this show
Coincidence or not im Casting this to my TV from my phone and 5x during this review my tv magically rebooted and stopped the cast seems very odd
If Henry Cavill walked and said “hey babe, let’s go to Eregion.” I would take back everything I have said about this show.
But Cavill wouldn’t touch this with a 35 foot pole
This show is just a, woke project wait and see the orcs will not be evil just misunderstood and persecuted by the other races because of how they look and Sauron will be the one trying to make all right with the world ill bet by end of this season I won't be far off on what they have done
How do they let Durin get punked? It's so insulting to treat an important character from such an important lineage like he's a spoiled noble and a wimp who can't defend himself or is not respected by the common dwarf.
It's clear that the people behind the Rings of Power don't know the lore of Tolkien's universe. It's like they're trying too hard to make it a D&D universe and too little to stay with the book lore.
How did you not talk about the Ring poem vision Galadriel gets during the Commander briefing? How does this poem even make sense in this timeline? Did she just got spoiled with Sauron's plan?
The show assumes the ease of modern communication in a world based on medieval Europe. How did the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm even know about Mount Doom? They're separated by hundreds of miles and they literally live under a mountain and are not exactly connected with the outside world
To me Saruman makes the most sense as the stranger, and the evil sorcerer should eventually become the Witch King. Having said that, they will probably make the stranger be Gandalf just because they think that is what people will want.
The Witch King was almost certainly one of the Nazgûl that came from Númenor.
@@istari0 Hopefully the showrunners will be more faithful to the source material, but I have my doubts.
I have no idea what each individual plot going. It's like soap opera with each separate relationship that never converge and should belong to a their own show.
Speaking of Dwarf singing, have you heard the new WIND ROSE singles?
Recently its been suggested that anyone who reads LOTR is a ultra right winger..😂
No..we believe in the struggle between good and evil and we are on the side of good. The left hates the true fans of LOTR.
All the writers had to do was write a good, coherent plot line. Middle earth should take care of the rest. But instead, we have all of the world building and eye candy without an actual story. Oh, and I can see why Galadriel went off to rule her own place. Gil-Galad acts like the CEO of Linden and she’s an employee on her PIP. So far, Sauron is the only one who understands her frustration. Which is weird. But not weirder than that conversation she has with Elrond where he uses a lot of s*xual innuendo to tell her how she rode Sauron.
Are these writers including their own personal stories in these conversations?
It’s seedy.
0 redeeming qualities, zip, none. A disgrace to Tolkien....surely they dont get 5 seasons done?
I'm guessing Celebrian won't appear. She and Elrond don't get married until the Third Age, so she isn't needed.
What if Adar is just a smokescreen?
I wouldn't waste my breath on this sh.....! :)
Agreed
And he literally just finds that staff on the ground lol
I didn't like the lame callbacks to the Two Towers. "We're going in circles!" 🤬
Dude I think we need to relish in the cringe. Its like drowning, we have to let the air in. This show is soo bad that its entertaining for me to hear experts crap on it.
I hated the stone singing and while I didn't mind Desa in S1, she's annoying thus far. Then I catch myself and remember that ROP has nothing to do with Tolkien or his universe. It's fan fiction written by someone who has only seen the movies.
Can you do perhaps different graphics aside from the yapping? I appreciate the conversation but an extra five minutes for different stills or even a moving audio bar would be an improvement. You can spare five minutes of editing the visual
Wait, wait, wait. A "wise man" is following a star in the EAST? HE'S LOOKING FOR JESUS!
This show is the equivalent of being waterboarded with bleach.
The writing for Sauron coming back was amateur. Its like a teen disney movie or Hallmark. ‘Oh Galadriel didnt tell you the rings worked?’. Celebrimbor says he wont deal with Halbrand but falls for the most childish attempt to gain trust. Embarrassing
Cirdan shaving frustrated me so much
Amazon really destroyed Middle Earth alot quicker and more efficiently than any dark lord could. The show has check all of Hollyweirds intersectional DEI boxes. A lack of strong male characters really makes the show unbalanced and unrealistic and totally not Toilken!
I think the final scene in this series is when Sauron removes his helmet its JEFF BEZOS underneath it.
Great discussion and lots of good points that I missed! But ya'll got to find a way to stop talking over each other..
You can’t say, oh, how Sauron could kill those Lindon soldiers so easily, and then, ok, Sauron is a maiar, but Celebrimbor have to be the dumbest elf on earth in order to trust in him… Guys, ROP has many problems, but these two aren’t two of them… First, he’s a maiar (in full, not like Gandalf), and second, Sauron is playing with Celebrimbor’s ambition. End. To be honest, I didn’t think that they could scape from that Halbran’s storyline, and they did it really good.
I think Rings of Power writers hate both the source material and audience at this point.
Celebrimbor can't even make a proper umbrella .... look at it in the épisode he is soaking wet under is unberalla 😂😂 the best crafter of his time can't make a proper umbrella let that sink in 😂
So many characters are getting ruined in this show. Sauron getting murdered by his orcs made me mad.
I decided after 15 minutes into episode 1 I would not be watching this nonsense after how bad season 1 was and so I have not seen anything beyond sludge Sauron so thank you guys for a. Reviewing this garbage and b. Confirming for me I made a good decision by turning it off.
You review the show like it was written by people who had actual brains in their skulls....
Cirdan shaving left me wondering how difficult it was for him to acquire the tools needed. How often do Elves shave if he’s the only one ever described to even have facial hair?
What i didn't like is that they made lord Elrod an orphan and he was never an orphan. This show is so terrible show
Dude they should just reset. So many bad plots they just can't fix it. They would be better off taking down these 2 seasons and starting from scratch for the other 3 they promised 😅
Again I agree with your take on this. It is not a catastrophic episode, we can see they are trying hard to re-adjust for the errors made in season 1, but still far from that. The Galadriel plot on the other hand is still a total disaster.
Also, the connection between the Dwarves and Music: Getting some ELDER SCROLLS DWEMER vibes from that. "Tonal Architecture"? Even though I don't remember much from the lore about that with Tolkien's Dwarves, I'll give them this: it's clever. Also, ties back to Tolkien's own creation account.
I think Guyladriel told Theo about Celeborn's death, but I might be mistaken
Edit: see my comment it's longer
Ima have to rewatch that cuz she never stated he was dead far as I remember. He was off on a mission or something.
@@realstarscream I asked Brave Search on their browser:
Galadriel's Statement on the Fate of Her Husband in The Rings of Power
According to the search results, Galadriel mentions her husband Celeborn in episode 7 of “The Rings of Power” while speaking with Theo. She recounts her experiences, including the loss of her brother Finrod, and implies that Celeborn is also gone, stating:
“…the forces of darkness took my brother, and they took my husband…”
Interpretation
While Galadriel explicitly mentions Celeborn’s disappearance, she does not explicitly say he is dead. The phrase “took” can imply capture, imprisonment, or loss, rather than definitive death. This ambiguity leaves room for interpretation, and the show’s creative liberties may ultimately reveal Celeborn’s fate in future episodes.
Contrasting Opinions
Some sources suggest that Celeborn might be alive, referencing his appearance in Lothlórien during The Fellowship of the Ring and his role in Middle-earth’s history. This raises questions about Galadriel’s perception of his fate and potential reunions in the story to come.
In conclusion, Galadriel in “The Rings of Power” does not explicitly state that her husband Celeborn is dead, instead implying his disappearance or loss. The show’s narrative has left his fate open to interpretation, with some possibilities hinting at his potential survival.
Y'all could have some great insight into the lore and how ROP dealt with it that most of the people on fnt can't really do.😊
What I didn't like either in season 2 was that they made Morgoth two different people but he is the same person he never took form of a human or elf in the book he never took form just of Shadow. He could have taken form if he wanted but he didn't want valar to find him and kill him.
Please go on fnt. I know you know Gary and he could use some help from other people who truly know the lore.
Didn't Tolkien mess about with timelines in The Two Towers? Books 3 & 4 in particular have overlapping time periods with one groups' story, say Merry and Pippin, lagging another, catching up, overtaking, then the story switching to a different part of the tale with the 3 Hunters, or Frodo.
Imagine chopping that up and splicing it back together in a series of interlacing episodes, and I'm sure we'd be criticising the Professor for confusing us just as much.
I disagree, I believe Appendix B contains a timeline of the LOTR. It is a bit confusing at first, but in hindsight it is generally clear that only a few days go by from the beginning of Two Towers to the end.
@@MenoftheWest yes, but the way that Tolkien writes it, without reference to the apendices, the reader isn't always sure of the precise chronology. One storyline will continue to a concluding point, then we'll jump back in time to some other storyline.
Jackson did "fix" this for the films, but maybe the RoP lot are playing with the chronology too. It's not uncommon...I rewatched Pulp Fiction the other day!!
I can't understand why people have a problem with the Galadriel-Elrond-Celebrian thing. Galadriel was thousands of years older than Elrond. He was only ~350 years older than Celebrian. Nothing weird there. G & E are friends, not lovers! Incidentally, I married the daughter of my old girlfriend from schooldays, so what's the big deal?
You lucky b a s t ar d!
Nobody cares
This really doesn't feel like the LOTR movies, it's like a fan adaption that just misses the mark. What a shame. The silver lining is me being the fan of the world so i'm just curious what they're doing but it feels like my fandom is being used against me lmao.
I don't understand why you are so hung up on the timeline. In this series, it is enough to know the precedence and postcedence of events. What is important is the causal link. I don't think it is necessary to know the elapsed time.
horse manure amazon lord of the agenda
The only thing I dislike is your negative and arrogant reviews.
I like your content otherwise, but please stop pandering to a rather vocal minority and bashing a show that has more pros than cons before I'm forced to unsubscribe.
I guess level-headed critique and measured reason aren’t your forte; in that case unsubscribing is your best option.
Every time I see a RoP video, I just give it an automatic thumbs down 👎 and don’t even watch it. There’s no point. It sux. It will always suck.
You’re trying to play both sides for content. Pathetic
doing too much on the criticism. it literally seems forced
You should change your name from “Men of the West” to “Men of Amazon Prime.”
The more they humanize Galadriel instead of making her the goddess we know from the books, the BETTER it is for us to empathize with her. You can't empathize with a perfect god creature. The fact that she had feelings for Halbrand will pay dividends in the future. BRILLIANT move by the writers.
I strongly believe that you guys would hate anything made today, even by Tolkien himself. If you had contact with like, The Hobbit, today, you'd hate it. Almost all the nickpicks are things that often happens in the books. Imagine your reaction with the troll's riddles, Glorfindel praying to the river, Gandalf returning as the White. All of this happens in months, it's a footnote in the lore. You go looking for problems. I remember the trailer analysis, lots of complaints about the similarity between Halbrand and Annatar. Anything needs to be clear and told from the beggining with you, thats not how a story works.
You treat Amazon's ROP like it's actually Tolkein, or something.
This filth shouldn't be on your channel.
Turned you off two seconds in. Thumbs down
How utterly disappointing
I really enjoyed the Annatar transformation. I had not expected it to go like that. What a deceiver this Sauron guy!
Anybody know of a fair LOTR channel giving the show a chance vs these gate-keeping assholes who just hate watch the show to get TH-cam clicks...?
Lol
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Wtf dude. This show is simply bad, which means most of the channels are going to have negative reviews. Thats simple logic.
PS: Stop being rude, child!
No, because the show is sh*t, ergo there isn't anyone who is going to tongue Amazon's ahole for you.
If you think this channel is a bunch of aholes just doing this for clicks, you don't know anything about it or LOTR.
MOTW IS giving it a fair chance. But the show is garbage. If you don't like being told the truth about it, that's a you problem. Go watch Nerd of the Rings; pretty sure he got paid to shill this show.