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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2023
- What’s the fastest tire and wheel setup? Narrow tires on a wide wheel? Wide tires on a narrow wheel? Somewhere in between? We performed an extensive test with the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS to find the answer.
View this exclusive test report: bit.ly/3UOVo0T
Featured Products:
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS: bit.ly/3QvzdKz
Enkei Racing RPF1: bit.ly/3oBRCvu - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
One of the best tire comparisons I've seen.
Next you should test different wheel sizes, such as:
255/45R17
255/40R18
255/35R19
255/30R20
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What I think would be most interesting is a non-square comparison. I'd wager 225 fronts on 9" and 245 rears on 9" would would outperform all tested here.
@@etiennebegin554 I think that depends a lot on the car and the weight destribution
That was exactly my thought as well but make sure the overall diameters are within 3% range
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Love the longer videos! This is a test I've had on my list for years so thank you for doing it! Though I wasn't planning so many combinations, so even better!
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@@tirerack while this is consistent with my experience on race tracks and im not surprised with the results. Whats poorly explained is your "control tire". For people who arent as experienced in this, the control tire doesnt make sense. WHAT is your control tire?? OEM Factory Tire???? RE71RS in specific tire size and wheel combination ??? What is the baseline you are comparing to ? I cannot figure it out. Anything above the 100% is faster and under is slower.. sure... faster than WHAT? OEM Tires???? The other thing you dont take into consideration nor explain is tire pressures. What tire pressures were you running. These all affect the results.While this is a great and informative video and consistent with my track experience... it could have been better explained for the beginners
@@robbyjai looks like OEM rim could be 215/40r18 7.5j
But would be nice to have this confirmed
@@robbyjai I second this!
@@robbyjai honestly, this video seems to be geared to beginners more than anything. Yes, absolutely you have valid points about tire pressures and other things affecting the performance. However, explaining those things takes a lot of time. The video already was 16 minutes long. It is hard to hold someone’s attention on TH-cam for longer than that. I assume that @Tire Rack is going to have other videos with different variables they test like tire pressure or tire profile but you can’t cram too much into a single video or people simply won’t watch it. This video seemed to have just the right amount of content without being too long.
I think their “control” test was more of a benchmark than a true “control group”. A “control group” should isolate and “control” the variable that you are trying to test. They actually vary multiple variables(tire width, wheel width, and tire profile) in this test so they can’t really have a single “control group”. However, I think they ran enough test cases to have a legitimate conclusion. Certainly it could be explained better but not in 16 minutes. That would probably make the video 20 or 25 minutes and you lose so many viewers by that point. Even 16 minutes is hard to keep people’s attention on TH-cam. I bet very few people read my entire comment because it is too long.
This series is why I buy from tire rack.
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Keep doing this and my windshield will say TIRERACK so big, you'll see it from the back
Tire rack is really the only option in the USA . Unless you want to get overcharged by going somewhere else.
@@tirerack but you won’t let me buy what I want. Your website forces me to buy factory sizes only. You don’t even publish specs on the wheels you sell.
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One of the best tires and wheel sizes combination review I've seen so far. Not only you guy give subjective opinions on how you feel while driving but also the objective datas that show the real world results. I really enjoy the content!!!
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I subscribed to a corporate entity... I would take that as a compliment. I like your track and platform choice. Your testing methods are both qualitative (descriptive but maybe subjective) and quantitative (objective and numerical but lacking in reference to human experience). This is THE BEST testing I have EVER seen on TH-cam. Truly well done.
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Enjoyed this format, and testing growth. Thanks for the effort!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!
Woah I bought 225/45-R17s from Tire Rack on 17x8 RPF1s for my Corolla SE Manual after doing my own research and it is pretty validating to see I made a good choice. The upgrade was worth it 100%. The car handled noticeably better after just that wheel and tire change and ride seemed to improve too thanks the the RPF1's lightness. Well worth it.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
@Tire Rack it is absolutely amazing that you were able to test so many combinations. That must have been a significant effort. Thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough test.
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Yeah, these longer informative videos you all are doing now... keep it up! It's amazing! I love the information and analysis you all provide in these videos. So much great information for us! Thank you!
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Three points:
1) In my experience if you are after the best performance it's best to take the section width and divide by 25.4. This is the width wheel you should run. Example: 255 / 25.4 = 10. 245/25.4-= 9.65. This has been proven to be true by many racers.
Had you run the 245 on a 10 or at least a 9.5 it would have been the fastest.
** The best outcome in your test was the 225 on a 9. Guess what 225 / 25.4 = 8.86
2) The side wall stiffness of the tire will make a significant difference in the results. For your nest test run on different width wheels two different tires of same size but one with a softer side wall and one stiffer. The tire with the softer side wall will perform significantly worse when the tire is not vertical or stretched a bit.
3) The weight of the car makes a difference especially in the wet.
It is sometimes pointed out that in some racing classes they will run for instance a 9 in tire on a 7" wheel. If you look at the class rules you will see that the max wheel width allowed is 7". They are using it because they must.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Appreciate the info but you could have substantially simplified your post by just saying to run the same wheel width as the tire section width. 25.4mm = 1 inch.
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in short, convert from mm to inches and go 😅
@@smanzoli
It makes no difference. He already posted it in milimiters, and the tire width is measured in milimiters anyway (which they did to fit into metric). On the other hand, someone who uses imperial would need to convert the tire width to inches so that now tire measurements fit imperial. It isn't easier to "just convert to inches"; it is the exact same thing both ways, turning metric factory spec into imperial to fit YOUR American system, or turning imperial units to metric to fit your American methods to OUR metric standards.
This video is gold, with only one video you give a quality answer to the questions about wide tire and wide rims.
First video that i see from you guys and i have to say that the quality of the video is really great. Very useful and fun to watch :)
absolutely loved this, very informational. please do more of these!
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I settled on 235/40R17 on 8x17 - seems like a pretty good idea. And I dig the flat rim and tire fitting.
This video was fantastic! I appreciate all the effort this takes, and I hope there's more to come!
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Thank you for making this! Needed to be said for a long time that proper section widith for the rim width IS the key to a fast setup 💪
The weight of each different tire/wheel combination would be good to list.
I have always thought that a narrow tire on a narrow wheel would be lighter than a bigger setup and if it doesn't loose traction might be faster in straight line acceleration.
You might notice there is no acceleration measurement in this test. For, say, a Miata @ Road America, a lighter tire wheel combo may yield a better laptime than a tire package with more lateral grip. It would need to be a situation where there are a whole lot of straights, with minimal cornering bias, like Road America, or maybe Road Atlanta. Lime Rock maybe. Something like that.
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Given the same compound, and assuming the car is grip limited, wider wheel and tire (in proportion) will accelerate faster. You could get some gains when not grip limited with less rotating inertia, but it's not exactly going to blow your socks off. The % changes are big but the absolute inertia is always very low.
@@mikebower9255 It will never yield a better laptime unless the car has so little power it can't reach a high enough speed to be on the limit in the corners, or the track has no corners.
@@ArchOfficial what part of Miata @ Road America makes you think we disagree? I always run the widest tires I can put on anything, but a heavier wheel ass'y will cost you in braking, a wider tire will slightly affect top speed, it's like more downforce, almost always good, unless the track is mostly high speed oriented, like the ones I mentioned
I suspect tire pressure would play a part in the overall competitiveness of each combo, plus the ambient and track temps across the various test days. They don't say what the 'control' pressure was, but maybe the 245/9" combo needed more/less pressure to gain a greater edge over the 225/9". Very interesting video nonetheless, thank you Tire Rack!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
same here, 20psi on a 225 is very different for a 245 which would get sloppy and drag the sidewall around
I haven’t even watched the video yet and can tell you that a 225 on a 9” will always be faster than the 245 on 9”.
This is common knowledge in the Miata realm. (The most raced car in North America, if you want to know anything about racing you start there)
The fastest Miata guys run 205 on 8”, 225 on 9”, and 245 on 10”.
Edit- these are generally 15” diameter wheels.
@@Peter-ff1tp So coning the wall a little helps kill it's play/flex? That makes some sense.
@@skvltdmedia
Yup. Same phenomenon the testers in this video experienced. It’s all about supporting the tire with a proper amount of wheel.
The general idea is a 1:1 ratio of wheel width to tire tread width. For example, a 205 tire has a roughly(manufacturers vary)8” tread width, so you put it on an 8” wide wheel.
These cars with their 17-18” wheels have an advantage over the Miata guys in tire choice. Earlier Miata’s generally run 14-15” wheels and tires are only available in the widths listed in my previous comment. The bigger tires for modern sports cars tend to be offered in more sizes so you can balance the car to your liking with the “in between” sizes like 215 and 235.
Loving these new vids. Great information, feels almost Option-y. Lots of potential for this channel to grow (especially since it seems that fitment industries is in limbo or on its way out). Don't burn yourselves out releasing vids to quick. Thank you for the info!
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what an amazing test we all knew we wanted sometime in our tyre hunt/research, and now we finally really have something on youtube back by actual data! :D nice.
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The results from this test has been well known in the Miata and wheel to wheel community for many years
Best tire testing video ever! 👍
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very interesting approach, thank you !
Best prices, honest reviews and these guys know their stuff. Been buying from you guy since 2004. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much for your kind words and support! We really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to share your experience with us. We look forward to working with you again in the future!
I went from a 7" to 8" wheel on the same 215 tires and it feels so much tighter. I run about 2-3 psi higher pressure now though with the slight stretch, feels way better.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
I’m running 245/40/17 on a 17x9+38 on my frs with aftermarket suspension and -2° of camber. it feels and corners amazing, even while daily driving.
Bet you try 32 psi front and 40 psi rear and you love it
Thank you for sharing your experience with the community.
Brilliant test. Suspected many of your results. Thank you. Will be sharing many times.
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THIS IS THE CONTENT I WANT.
Seriously, great job on this.
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Sweet! I just mounted my 17x8 RPF1's with 225 RT660's that I purchased from Tire Rack. The wheel and tire package looks great.🔥
Nothing better than that new shoe feelin' 😎 We hope you enjoy your new tires and wheels!
@@tirerack appreciate the video
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This is really exciting. I've run a 225 on 7.5" and 235. This year I'm going to try 255's on a 8" and then later step down to a 225 on a 8". Based on this data, the 225 on a 8" would be the best of my 4 combos.
It could also depend on car weight, weight distribution and what tyre model you try
Please use 9" wheels for your 255's. If your car does not take at least 8.5 wheels, you don't get 255's.
@@mikebower9255 I bought the rims with the 255's on them already from someone else. I already purchased the 225's, so they will go on after an event or two with the 255's.
Which one did you prefer 225 on the 7.5” or 235 on 7.5”? What was the sidewall ratio?
I am looking for combos on a 7.5” wheel width.
@@MrPizzaman09 ah, ok, fair enough
A content I have been waiting for thirty years!
And Finally!!
Thank you Tire Rack for making things happen.
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Thanks for the major effort. Makes me want to order my wheels from here. Thank for caring for us people who love more information.
You should mentioned that a wider tire DOESN'T "put more rubber on the ground." Only adding weight onto the tire and/or reducing psi does. Going to a wider or narrower tire does change the shape of the contact patch, as does going to a taller or shorter tire. Great video!
This is true. I wonder what their pressures were set to?
@@bradcomis1066They smartly didn’t want to introduce another variable and set them all to the psi on the door.
@@briangoodner8680 but the door won't have pressures specified for each size they used, so that's not possible.
2:59 - re: "stretched 215 on the 9..." STANCE FANS HAVE NOW JOINED THE CHAT...!!! 😁
Wow, what a comprehensive test. Really useful study. Thank you!
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I'm glad I found this video. I just had my 2023 BRZ fitted with 17x8" alloy wheels and 225/45R17 performance tires, and that was money well spent.
This does a pretty good job of showing the difference, and acknowledging varying track conditions, one thing to keep in mind is the weight of larger wheels and larger tires, that can be seen in the larger tires on the wider wheels. It would have been neat to see this on 16 inches since there are usually more tire choices available on 16s, but 17s are probably optimal for this vehicle, having owned one and driving on both 16s and 17s. Sidewall stiffness comes into play with wheel with support.
Note: 1:33 I understand what you mean by tank slapper, but this isn’t a motorcycle, and unless you’re familiar with motorcycles, you’re not gonna know what that means
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
definitely not more tire choices in 16s
Love the testing being done! Can you do a shoot out between different wheel diameters on the BRZ/GR86? 16" vs 17" vs 18" vs 19" to show what the pros and cons of wheel diameter have on handling and lap time. Thanks!
As small, wide and light as you can get. Just look at an old F1 car.
@@steffenkawa8374 Nah, F1 cars already ran 15" wheels all-round in the 1960's and if you check out the 15" fronts from the 1970's F1 cars, they have relatively low profile front tyres which are about the same tyre profile as a modern 2023 F1 car!
Rears were limited to 13" diameter wheels by regulation in about 1973, while fronts were limited to 13" diameter by regulation in about 1983. On the other hand, USAC Indycar racing stayed with 15" wheels from the 1960's to the present day. 🙂
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So fortunate to have this testing as I'm waiting for my BRZ order to arrive!
this was a great video, easy to watch multiple times
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Interesting! I’m curious to see how this changes with different drivetrain configs awd, fwd, rwd.
It doesn’t.
All principles remain the same.
@@Peter-ff1tp ok know it all
It'd be interesting to see this with staggered wheel widths too. so slightly Skinner on the front vs the rear, and how tire width and wheel width combinations stack up that way.
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Very interesting. Thank you.
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Wonderful information to have. Thank you.
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I'd love to see this series have a follow up with adjustable suspension. I actually expected the 225x9 to win on a stock setup, but I'd really like to see how the 245x9 behaves with suspension and alignment changes specifically for track use.
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It's great. Do it 🙂
@@ayowser01 Yeah my factory fronts are 9's and came with 245's... I went to 255's... but I'm guessing I can gain back some more steering response and MPG with a 245.... I wish that meant the tires would be a lot cheaper.... On the rear I have a 10" wheel - factory was 275 - I have a 285 on there now... Thoughts? It's a RWD 370z... I now have a fun 14 miles of curves on the way to work each day ;--)
they not test 235/45/17 tyres
I think there's one thing missing in the test. Are all these wheels have the offset? If the offset numbers are different, the lap time and feeling might not be solely due to wheel width. A wider track can make a difference as well.
The wheel offsets are 7x7 ET42, 17x8 ET45, 17x9 ET45 with a 5mm spacer.
Ultimate tests, thanks man!!!!!!!!!!
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There was "well, of course...", but the "are you kidding me?" parts proved to be a great learning experience. You've got my subscription. Thanks for the great work! --Fink
I'm wondering if the 245 isn't just too much friction for the power of the stock GR86 ? Maybe they're just scrubbing too much / add extra rolling resistance that negates the additional grip provided, while traction was already more than enough on narrower tyres ? Anyway, this shows a good car is about general balance of its components and I think that's the key here.
Do this again, but with staggered wheels. Slap 7/8 with 215/225 and 8/9 with 225/245 on and see what those results look like in comparison in the dry and wet! This video is super helpful for all the BRZ/FRS, Miata and S2000 folks out there, and a lot of them want to know which is better, staggered vs. square setup. 9:00
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Love these empirical and quantitative reviews! Super useful for the next set of tires I buy ;)
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Best advertisement I’ve ever seen. Excellent use of funds, cheers!
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Interesting! Have you tried staggered combinations? Also, what about pressure, was it the same in all tests?
Great questions! We did not stagger the tires for this test and we ran them all at the factory inflation pressure of 35psi.
With its smaller diameter the 215 has an acceleration advantage over the 225, so the results of the 225 are even more striking. The 225 had to overcome the acceleration disadvantage and still managed to be much faster overall.
Do for the road only…17 mags wee le . Do you suggest 215 or 225?
this is very useful info amazing results Thanks so much to you all for making this!
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Really enjoyed this, I'd love to see more tests like this
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the 225mm tire with 9" wheel is the closest to being the same width. 225mm is 8.96 inches.
I'm guessing that's why it was the fastest.
Interesting test. I tend to fall more into the drag racing use than circuit use and it would seem based upon your descriptions that corner exit/getting on the power earlier says that the wider tire is beneficial for acceleration.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
What a lot of people forget when shoving the widest tire they can get on their car is, you’re also increasing the rolling resistance with big tires. You also can easily run into a situation where the tires never reach optimal temperature for the vehicle. There’s even an aerodynamic drag component with wide tires.
Years ago the fastest car in NASA ST2 at Road Atlanta was an FFR running 245 Hoosier A’s. Talking to the team they found the 275’s were significantly slower in lap times. They also tried R comps but they never got enough heat because the car was so light.
I have no idea if that theory still holds true today but you can absolutely have “too much tire” just as easily as you can have “too much wing”.
Great test! Thanks for all the data. I learned something about rain tires I didn’t know before.
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This is EXACTLY what I wanted to know! Thank you TireRack!
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This is a really very good reference but just a reference within 215/225/245 on 7-9j rims, but can’t agreed all
What we are talking about how to optimise lateral vehicle dynamics by ideal rim dimensions. The target of optimal tyre performance on target rim width should have to find out the relationship between sidewall stiffness, contact patch vs rim width.
There are some unknown factors may affect the result :
1) driving ability
2) tyre type (uhp, semi slick, slick)
3) profile difference of 40/45 on wet as slip angles highly affect the control on wet
4) test track is tight which is good for narrow tyres
5) wet surface is good for narrow tyres as you can see rally car use very narrow tyres on ice
6) no proportional increase of rim width to the 245/40/17 test to know the affect of stretch setup on 245
7) the wear and drop of performance after test laps
8) the affect of offset and tyre width to scrub radius
That’s why there are no best setup on track and need to work very hard to find the most suitable setup for your own
*Weight, tire width and rim width range affect mechanical grip, and downforce is a multiplier*
Very thorough , thanks
This was very interesting, thank you.
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Wide wheel. Stretch the tire. Stiffen the sidewall. More lateral grip.
Glad they're running these tests in wet conditions. Hope they extend the test to the snow. From the perspective of everyday driving, safety under wet conditions along with predictability is a strong argument for tire width moderation - along with a properly matched wheel. Final variation - larger wheel sizes in the rears - along with impacts on wear.
Awesome, this test is a dream come true.
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Super useful video, would love to see more like this
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This was very interesting and awesome knowledge dropped!
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Absolutely FANTASTIC video! Keep up the great work @Tire Rack. I always buy my tires from them. Prices are great and they have a great selection of tires.
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Thx! Great video
Thanks, this is the content we needed!
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Really appreciate this content! Very informative.
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Epic concept and choices for tires. Big cheers!
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Literally testing my tire setup amazing
Fascinating!
A very good question answered extremely well 👏👏
Thank you!
very comprehensive test and analysis, well done!
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the best video ever thank you so much i wait for this years
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Absolutely amazing content, thank you so much
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I run a 235 on 8.5 and I’m pretty happy with it, nice testing!
Excellent test & video recap!
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Parabéns pelo video, tirou minhas duvidas
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Thanks alot!!!
I really appreciate this content, thank you!
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Great video! I love these data-based comparisons. Thanks for doing this detailed analysis! It would be interesting to see the differences(if any) on AWD and FWD vehicles.
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Came here to say the same
Fantastic video to finally put an end to this crazy debate
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This was THE perfect video for what I was looking for. I have a square set of 18/8.5's on the way for my BMW and I'm trying to figure out the right tire setup.
Very interesting test - thank you!
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Really enjoyed this test!!! MORE!!!
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Fantastic video. Very informative. Hope there is a group summer performance tire test coming up on the BRZ
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really nice video, been running 225 rt660s on 8s on my first gen BRZ and I really like it, was looking at changing sizes but I think I'll stick with what I have for a little longer!
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Thank you so much. I learned a lot. Please continue to share your truth.
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Hands up! Best professional test in the market!
Thank you!
Absolutely amazing video. Bravo.
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Tire rack really nailed this! Great job!!!
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So here the 225 on the 8" is the best combination for a road car. Thanks for doing this. I know google looked at my search query last night in order to feed this to me but I'm glad they did. I literally was just looking this up.
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I loved this video, its exactly the wheels size I have and the factory comparison so it's very interesting to see the relationship with tire size and wheel width.
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great video thanks 2 thumbs up!!
Thank you!
As a NC Miata driver, the wheel and tire selection is very relevant to me. Thanks for sharing this video. It was eye-opening.
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This was fantastically informative. I love that the results broke some conventional wisdom!
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