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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024
- What’s the fastest tire and wheel setup? Narrow tires on a wide wheel? Wide tires on a narrow wheel? Somewhere in between? We performed an extensive test with the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS to find the answer.
View this exclusive test report: bit.ly/3UOVo0T
Featured Products:
Bridgestone Potenza RE-71RS: bit.ly/3QvzdKz
Enkei Racing RPF1: bit.ly/3oBRCvu
Love the longer videos! This is a test I've had on my list for years so thank you for doing it! Though I wasn't planning so many combinations, so even better!
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
@@tirerack while this is consistent with my experience on race tracks and im not surprised with the results. Whats poorly explained is your "control tire". For people who arent as experienced in this, the control tire doesnt make sense. WHAT is your control tire?? OEM Factory Tire???? RE71RS in specific tire size and wheel combination ??? What is the baseline you are comparing to ? I cannot figure it out. Anything above the 100% is faster and under is slower.. sure... faster than WHAT? OEM Tires???? The other thing you dont take into consideration nor explain is tire pressures. What tire pressures were you running. These all affect the results.While this is a great and informative video and consistent with my track experience... it could have been better explained for the beginners
@@robbyjai looks like OEM rim could be 215/40r18 7.5j
But would be nice to have this confirmed
@@robbyjai I second this!
@@robbyjai honestly, this video seems to be geared to beginners more than anything. Yes, absolutely you have valid points about tire pressures and other things affecting the performance. However, explaining those things takes a lot of time. The video already was 16 minutes long. It is hard to hold someone’s attention on TH-cam for longer than that. I assume that @Tire Rack is going to have other videos with different variables they test like tire pressure or tire profile but you can’t cram too much into a single video or people simply won’t watch it. This video seemed to have just the right amount of content without being too long.
I think their “control” test was more of a benchmark than a true “control group”. A “control group” should isolate and “control” the variable that you are trying to test. They actually vary multiple variables(tire width, wheel width, and tire profile) in this test so they can’t really have a single “control group”. However, I think they ran enough test cases to have a legitimate conclusion. Certainly it could be explained better but not in 16 minutes. That would probably make the video 20 or 25 minutes and you lose so many viewers by that point. Even 16 minutes is hard to keep people’s attention on TH-cam. I bet very few people read my entire comment because it is too long.
One of the best tire comparisons I've seen.
Next you should test different wheel sizes, such as:
255/45R17
255/40R18
255/35R19
255/30R20
Thank you for sharing your feedback with us.
What I think would be most interesting is a non-square comparison. I'd wager 225 fronts on 9" and 245 rears on 9" would would outperform all tested here.
@@etiennebegin554 I think that depends a lot on the car and the weight destribution
That was exactly my thought as well but make sure the overall diameters are within 3% range
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
This series is why I buy from tire rack.
Thank you for your kind words!
Keep doing this and my windshield will say TIRERACK so big, you'll see it from the back
Tire rack is really the only option in the USA . Unless you want to get overcharged by going somewhere else.
@@tirerack but you won’t let me buy what I want. Your website forces me to buy factory sizes only. You don’t even publish specs on the wheels you sell.
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
I subscribed to a corporate entity... I would take that as a compliment. I like your track and platform choice. Your testing methods are both qualitative (descriptive but maybe subjective) and quantitative (objective and numerical but lacking in reference to human experience). This is THE BEST testing I have EVER seen on TH-cam. Truly well done.
Thank you for your kind words and support! We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video.
One of the best tires and wheel sizes combination review I've seen so far. Not only you guy give subjective opinions on how you feel while driving but also the objective datas that show the real world results. I really enjoy the content!!!
Thank you for your kind words. We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
What a lot of people forget when shoving the widest tire they can get on their car is, you’re also increasing the rolling resistance with big tires. You also can easily run into a situation where the tires never reach optimal temperature for the vehicle. There’s even an aerodynamic drag component with wide tires.
Years ago the fastest car in NASA ST2 at Road Atlanta was an FFR running 245 Hoosier A’s. Talking to the team they found the 275’s were significantly slower in lap times. They also tried R comps but they never got enough heat because the car was so light.
I have no idea if that theory still holds true today but you can absolutely have “too much tire” just as easily as you can have “too much wing”.
Great test! Thanks for all the data. I learned something about rain tires I didn’t know before.
We are so happy you enjoyed the video!
Three points:
1) In my experience if you are after the best performance it's best to take the section width and divide by 25.4. This is the width wheel you should run. Example: 255 / 25.4 = 10. 245/25.4-= 9.65. This has been proven to be true by many racers.
Had you run the 245 on a 10 or at least a 9.5 it would have been the fastest.
** The best outcome in your test was the 225 on a 9. Guess what 225 / 25.4 = 8.86
2) The side wall stiffness of the tire will make a significant difference in the results. For your nest test run on different width wheels two different tires of same size but one with a softer side wall and one stiffer. The tire with the softer side wall will perform significantly worse when the tire is not vertical or stretched a bit.
3) The weight of the car makes a difference especially in the wet.
It is sometimes pointed out that in some racing classes they will run for instance a 9 in tire on a 7" wheel. If you look at the class rules you will see that the max wheel width allowed is 7". They are using it because they must.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Appreciate the info but you could have substantially simplified your post by just saying to run the same wheel width as the tire section width. 25.4mm = 1 inch.
We appreciate your feedback.
in short, convert from mm to inches and go 😅
@@smanzoli
It makes no difference. He already posted it in milimiters, and the tire width is measured in milimiters anyway (which they did to fit into metric). On the other hand, someone who uses imperial would need to convert the tire width to inches so that now tire measurements fit imperial. It isn't easier to "just convert to inches"; it is the exact same thing both ways, turning metric factory spec into imperial to fit YOUR American system, or turning imperial units to metric to fit your American methods to OUR metric standards.
Enjoyed this format, and testing growth. Thanks for the effort!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!
I’m running 245/40/17 on a 17x9+38 on my frs with aftermarket suspension and -2° of camber. it feels and corners amazing, even while daily driving.
Bet you try 32 psi front and 40 psi rear and you love it
Thank you for sharing your experience with the community.
I suspect tire pressure would play a part in the overall competitiveness of each combo, plus the ambient and track temps across the various test days. They don't say what the 'control' pressure was, but maybe the 245/9" combo needed more/less pressure to gain a greater edge over the 225/9". Very interesting video nonetheless, thank you Tire Rack!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
same here, 20psi on a 225 is very different for a 245 which would get sloppy and drag the sidewall around
I haven’t even watched the video yet and can tell you that a 225 on a 9” will always be faster than the 245 on 9”.
This is common knowledge in the Miata realm. (The most raced car in North America, if you want to know anything about racing you start there)
The fastest Miata guys run 205 on 8”, 225 on 9”, and 245 on 10”.
Edit- these are generally 15” diameter wheels.
@@Peter-ff1tp So coning the wall a little helps kill it's play/flex? That makes some sense.
@@skvltdmedia
Yup. Same phenomenon the testers in this video experienced. It’s all about supporting the tire with a proper amount of wheel.
The general idea is a 1:1 ratio of wheel width to tire tread width. For example, a 205 tire has a roughly(manufacturers vary)8” tread width, so you put it on an 8” wide wheel.
These cars with their 17-18” wheels have an advantage over the Miata guys in tire choice. Earlier Miata’s generally run 14-15” wheels and tires are only available in the widths listed in my previous comment. The bigger tires for modern sports cars tend to be offered in more sizes so you can balance the car to your liking with the “in between” sizes like 215 and 235.
I settled on 235/40R17 on 8x17 - seems like a pretty good idea. And I dig the flat rim and tire fitting.
I'm glad I found this video. I just had my 2023 BRZ fitted with 17x8" alloy wheels and 225/45R17 performance tires, and that was money well spent.
This is really exciting. I've run a 225 on 7.5" and 235. This year I'm going to try 255's on a 8" and then later step down to a 225 on a 8". Based on this data, the 225 on a 8" would be the best of my 4 combos.
It could also depend on car weight, weight distribution and what tyre model you try
Please use 9" wheels for your 255's. If your car does not take at least 8.5 wheels, you don't get 255's.
@@mikebower9255 I bought the rims with the 255's on them already from someone else. I already purchased the 225's, so they will go on after an event or two with the 255's.
Which one did you prefer 225 on the 7.5” or 235 on 7.5”? What was the sidewall ratio?
I am looking for combos on a 7.5” wheel width.
@@MrPizzaman09 ah, ok, fair enough
Woah I bought 225/45-R17s from Tire Rack on 17x8 RPF1s for my Corolla SE Manual after doing my own research and it is pretty validating to see I made a good choice. The upgrade was worth it 100%. The car handled noticeably better after just that wheel and tire change and ride seemed to improve too thanks the the RPF1's lightness. Well worth it.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
@Tire Rack it is absolutely amazing that you were able to test so many combinations. That must have been a significant effort. Thank you for taking the time to do such a thorough test.
Thank you! We are thrilled that you enjoyed the video.
I went from a 7" to 8" wheel on the same 215 tires and it feels so much tighter. I run about 2-3 psi higher pressure now though with the slight stretch, feels way better.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
You should mentioned that a wider tire DOESN'T "put more rubber on the ground." Only adding weight onto the tire and/or reducing psi does. Going to a wider or narrower tire does change the shape of the contact patch, as does going to a taller or shorter tire. Great video!
This is true. I wonder what their pressures were set to?
@@bradcomis1066They smartly didn’t want to introduce another variable and set them all to the psi on the door.
@@briangoodner8680 but the door won't have pressures specified for each size they used, so that's not possible.
Have you seen a 195 compared to a 235? The width is measured in mm, and, while the number doesn't always mean the exact tread width, the larger number will have a wider tread. That being said, after pairing a good wheel and tire size to your vehicle, tire type is more impactful than 10mm more or less of width
Great test on a controlled smooth surface. One thing I've always had a feeling about with slightly wider tires on a thinner wheel is that they are more forgiving in the real world away from a smooth track. Because of the forgiving nature mentioned here, when you hit rough pavement in corners like on all of the tar chip roads here. They will hold better, absorb the bumps and float trough the turn like the rough patch wasn't there where the "ideal" setup in this test would bounce and get squirrelly quick.
Another thing that was sort of glanced over is power out of the corners. I don't how how much torque the test car puts out but I'm pretty sure the results would be different if it had 450-500tq to play with and the test car simply didn't have enough power to push the limit of acceleration out of the corners
Sweet! I just mounted my 17x8 RPF1's with 225 RT660's that I purchased from Tire Rack. The wheel and tire package looks great.🔥
Nothing better than that new shoe feelin' 😎 We hope you enjoy your new tires and wheels!
@@tirerack appreciate the video
Thank you for your support and kind words!
This was THE perfect video for what I was looking for. I have a square set of 18/8.5's on the way for my BMW and I'm trying to figure out the right tire setup.
The results from this test has been well known in the Miata and wheel to wheel community for many years
I upgraded my 05 RSX Type S with a 225 on a 17x8 squared setup from Tire Rack. Works great! Traklites!
We are so happy that you found a set up you enjoy!
The weight of each different tire/wheel combination would be good to list.
I have always thought that a narrow tire on a narrow wheel would be lighter than a bigger setup and if it doesn't loose traction might be faster in straight line acceleration.
You might notice there is no acceleration measurement in this test. For, say, a Miata @ Road America, a lighter tire wheel combo may yield a better laptime than a tire package with more lateral grip. It would need to be a situation where there are a whole lot of straights, with minimal cornering bias, like Road America, or maybe Road Atlanta. Lime Rock maybe. Something like that.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Given the same compound, and assuming the car is grip limited, wider wheel and tire (in proportion) will accelerate faster. You could get some gains when not grip limited with less rotating inertia, but it's not exactly going to blow your socks off. The % changes are big but the absolute inertia is always very low.
@@mikebower9255 It will never yield a better laptime unless the car has so little power it can't reach a high enough speed to be on the limit in the corners, or the track has no corners.
@@ArchOfficial what part of Miata @ Road America makes you think we disagree? I always run the widest tires I can put on anything, but a heavier wheel ass'y will cost you in braking, a wider tire will slightly affect top speed, it's like more downforce, almost always good, unless the track is mostly high speed oriented, like the ones I mentioned
This video is gold, with only one video you give a quality answer to the questions about wide tire and wide rims.
THIS IS THE CONTENT I WANT.
Seriously, great job on this.
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed this video!
The best thing about this whole video is, "run the best tire and wheel combo, that tire would get sufficient support for its width". I am running on my BRZ a Michelin PS5 R18-8 235/40, i have tried a few different setups, with the harder outer wall of PS5 i don't need to stretch with the wheel width and it still is very "fun" and responsive
I'm wondering if the 245 isn't just too much friction for the power of the stock GR86 ? Maybe they're just scrubbing too much / add extra rolling resistance that negates the additional grip provided, while traction was already more than enough on narrower tyres ? Anyway, this shows a good car is about general balance of its components and I think that's the key here.
So here the 225 on the 8" is the best combination for a road car. Thanks for doing this. I know google looked at my search query last night in order to feed this to me but I'm glad they did. I literally was just looking this up.
We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
I'd love to see this series have a follow up with adjustable suspension. I actually expected the 225x9 to win on a stock setup, but I'd really like to see how the 245x9 behaves with suspension and alignment changes specifically for track use.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
It's great. Do it 🙂
@@ayowser01 Yeah my factory fronts are 9's and came with 245's... I went to 255's... but I'm guessing I can gain back some more steering response and MPG with a 245.... I wish that meant the tires would be a lot cheaper.... On the rear I have a 10" wheel - factory was 275 - I have a 285 on there now... Thoughts? It's a RWD 370z... I now have a fun 14 miles of curves on the way to work each day ;--)
they not test 235/45/17 tyres
As a NC Miata driver, the wheel and tire selection is very relevant to me. Thanks for sharing this video. It was eye-opening.
Thank you for your support!
Interesting! I’m curious to see how this changes with different drivetrain configs awd, fwd, rwd.
It doesn’t.
All principles remain the same.
@@Peter-ff1tp ok know it all
As someone who wants to daily drive a Subaru BRZ or Toyota GR86 on the streets in all weather conditions like rain, this tells me that a 215 or 225 Width Tyre with 8inch rims is the way to go
2:59 - re: "stretched 215 on the 9..." STANCE FANS HAVE NOW JOINED THE CHAT...!!! 😁
Best prices, honest reviews and these guys know their stuff. Been buying from you guy since 2004. Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much for your kind words and support! We really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to share your experience with us. We look forward to working with you again in the future!
Love the testing being done! Can you do a shoot out between different wheel diameters on the BRZ/GR86? 16" vs 17" vs 18" vs 19" to show what the pros and cons of wheel diameter have on handling and lap time. Thanks!
As small, wide and light as you can get. Just look at an old F1 car.
@@steffenkawa8374 Nah, F1 cars already ran 15" wheels all-round in the 1960's and if you check out the 15" fronts from the 1970's F1 cars, they have relatively low profile front tyres which are about the same tyre profile as a modern 2023 F1 car!
Rears were limited to 13" diameter wheels by regulation in about 1973, while fronts were limited to 13" diameter by regulation in about 1983. On the other hand, USAC Indycar racing stayed with 15" wheels from the 1960's to the present day. 🙂
We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video! We will share your feedback with our tire testing team.
I love that they did this test, Tire Rack is awesome!
I only wish they had used their own data to decide what tires to test with.
Most 225/45/17 tires have a tread width of around 7.5in. These are 7.9in, so naturally they worked better on even a 9in wheel. They're really best suited for the 8in overall, like they said, because you want to size your tires so the tread width is around the same wheel width. A tenth or two narrower tread width and it will be more responsive, a tenth or two wider and it will ride better. This is also relative to sidewall stiffness, these 225s are three notches stiffer than the other two, and won't require as much tire pressure to keep the tire flat on the ground, so it will be flatter on the ground than identical tire with a softer sidewall.
I think there's one thing missing in the test. Are all these wheels have the offset? If the offset numbers are different, the lap time and feeling might not be solely due to wheel width. A wider track can make a difference as well.
The wheel offsets are 7x7 ET42, 17x8 ET45, 17x9 ET45 with a 5mm spacer.
There was "well, of course...", but the "are you kidding me?" parts proved to be a great learning experience. You've got my subscription. Thanks for the great work! --Fink
absolutely loved this, very informational. please do more of these!
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed this video!
what an amazing test we all knew we wanted sometime in our tyre hunt/research, and now we finally really have something on youtube back by actual data! :D nice.
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed it!
With its smaller diameter the 215 has an acceleration advantage over the 225, so the results of the 225 are even more striking. The 225 had to overcome the acceleration disadvantage and still managed to be much faster overall.
Do for the road only…17 mags wee le . Do you suggest 215 or 225?
Phenomenal test. I run a 235/40 on a 18x8 because it looks a bit better and offers a bit more curb protection, but happy to see a 225 would perform just as good if not better.
Thank you!
Yeah, these longer informative videos you all are doing now... keep it up! It's amazing! I love the information and analysis you all provide in these videos. So much great information for us! Thank you!
We are so happy you enjoy the video! Thank you for your kind words and support.
I run a 235 on 8 inch on a first gen of one of these cars. I really enjoy it. Pilot sports. Work pretty well. Got them from you guys.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us! We appreciate your business.
It'd be interesting to see this with staggered wheel widths too. so slightly Skinner on the front vs the rear, and how tire width and wheel width combinations stack up that way.
We appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us.
I run a 235 on 8.5 and I’m pretty happy with it, nice testing!
what was the control? 205/45/17?
Great video. The effects are probably even larger on tires with less stiff sidewalls, these things are built like a rock
They are lovely old school performance tyres, though I guess most track day tyres are! Trying to find a nice rock-solid *road* performance tyre is however pretty difficult by comparison these days. Comfort-sport tyres seem to be *everywhere*!
I like the Potenza S007A but they are discontinued (apart from Japan where they are still Bridgestone's flagship UHP road tyre). According to TireRack weights, the S007A are actually 500g or 1lb *heaver* than the RE71RS in my size 225/45 R17 -- that must be a mistake? is a 225/45 R17 RE71RS really 2lb lighter than a Hankook RS-4 in the same size? -- in any case the S007A feel very solid too.
The Potenza RE004 is also available for now which is also nice and rigid, but will Bridgestone go for a softer sidewall on the next model? [The North American market is still waiting on the Firestone Firehawk version of the RE004 mind you!]
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
the 225mm tire with 9" wheel is the closest to being the same width. 225mm is 8.96 inches.
I'm guessing that's why it was the fastest.
Glad they're running these tests in wet conditions. Hope they extend the test to the snow. From the perspective of everyday driving, safety under wet conditions along with predictability is a strong argument for tire width moderation - along with a properly matched wheel. Final variation - larger wheel sizes in the rears - along with impacts on wear. + need to facto in vehicle weight. Hopefully rating scores will be weighted so wet performance is part of the equation.
Best tire testing video ever! 👍
We are so happy to hear you enjoyed it.
There is literally a tire write-up, that I can think of, from Ford Motorsports in the 80s. Covers basic tire width threshold relative to wheel width.
Interesting! Have you tried staggered combinations? Also, what about pressure, was it the same in all tests?
Great questions! We did not stagger the tires for this test and we ran them all at the factory inflation pressure of 35psi.
The stock wheels on the 1st gen Venza comes with 245s on 7.5” rims. But I understand why they do this. Forgiving when you accidentally bump the curb.
Thanks for posting. This was very informative!
This is a really very good reference but just a reference within 215/225/245 on 7-9j rims, but can’t agreed all
What we are talking about how to optimise lateral vehicle dynamics by ideal rim dimensions. The target of optimal tyre performance on target rim width should have to find out the relationship between sidewall stiffness, contact patch vs rim width.
There are some unknown factors may affect the result :
1) driving ability
2) tyre type (uhp, semi slick, slick)
3) profile difference of 40/45 on wet as slip angles highly affect the control on wet
4) test track is tight which is good for narrow tyres
5) wet surface is good for narrow tyres as you can see rally car use very narrow tyres on ice
6) no proportional increase of rim width to the 245/40/17 test to know the affect of stretch setup on 245
7) the wear and drop of performance after test laps
8) the affect of offset and tyre width to scrub radius
That’s why there are no best setup on track and need to work very hard to find the most suitable setup for your own
been waiting on covering for this EXACT question for a long time now. Amazing content
This does a pretty good job of showing the difference, and acknowledging varying track conditions, one thing to keep in mind is the weight of larger wheels and larger tires, that can be seen in the larger tires on the wider wheels. It would have been neat to see this on 16 inches since there are usually more tire choices available on 16s, but 17s are probably optimal for this vehicle, having owned one and driving on both 16s and 17s. Sidewall stiffness comes into play with wheel with support.
Note: 1:33 I understand what you mean by tank slapper, but this isn’t a motorcycle, and unless you’re familiar with motorcycles, you’re not gonna know what that means
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
definitely not more tire choices in 16s
So fortunate to have this testing as I'm waiting for my BRZ order to arrive!
All i want is a meaty setup
Thanks for the major effort. Makes me want to order my wheels from here. Thank for caring for us people who love more information.
*Weight, tire width and rim width range affect mechanical grip, and downforce is a multiplier*
Loving these new vids. Great information, feels almost Option-y. Lots of potential for this channel to grow (especially since it seems that fitment industries is in limbo or on its way out). Don't burn yourselves out releasing vids to quick. Thank you for the info!
We appreciate your kind words.
Interesting test. I tend to fall more into the drag racing use than circuit use and it would seem based upon your descriptions that corner exit/getting on the power earlier says that the wider tire is beneficial for acceleration.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Best advertisement I’ve ever seen. Excellent use of funds, cheers!
We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video.
Do this again, but with staggered wheels. Slap 7/8 with 215/225 and 8/9 with 225/245 on and see what those results look like in comparison in the dry and wet! This video is super helpful for all the BRZ/FRS, Miata and S2000 folks out there, and a lot of them want to know which is better, staggered vs. square setup. 9:00
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Interesting. I have a set of 245/40r17s on a 9" Apex wheel (michelin pilot sport 4s) on my FRS. The lateral grip is insane, but I also think it has significantly numbed the steering feel and might even be causing the car to tramline a bit. This video makes me very curious about going down to 225/45r17s on the same wheel to see if I get some steering feel back.
Wide wheel. Stretch the tire. Stiffen the sidewall. More lateral grip.
You didn't watch the video
Thank you for making this! Needed to be said for a long time that proper section widith for the rim width IS the key to a fast setup 💪
I was going to go 225/45/17 on a 17x9 but went 245/40/17 thinking it would be faster, also because I caved in from track “elitists” saying 225’s on a 9 is stretched and “bad”. Now I wish I had that improved turn in feel
Thank you for sharing your experience with us.
Very educational. Ive run 255 and 235 on my stock tesla model 3 18s. The 255s had good surface grip but a lot if sidewall slosh, the 235s have good feel but mid traction. I think 245s are what i need next.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
I have recently purchased a set: R18 235 tires on 8.5 front and R18 235 tires on 9.5 rear. I am looking forward to testing it..
i run 19x9.5 all around with 275 in the front and 295 in the rear feels good always on a s550
Thank you for sharing your experience.
as someone whos gone from a 16", 195mm tire to an 18" 245mm tire I can tell you the difference feels amazing and much more responsive and stable at all speeds. But as described in the video, you always need to make sure that the wheel is the right size to support the tire you want to use
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
I kept my 7' wide RPF1 after trading-in my Civic. It'll come in useful on those rainy days.
This was a great video. It is awesome that you were able to demonstrate too little tire, ideal tire, and too much tire. It's entirely unexpected that you were able to show that by only adding 30 to the width. 🤯 🙌
We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
Good video! However one thing not mentioned was the track change between the different wheel widths, due to wheel offset. Judging from the images, it seems track increased with every rim size. That will do at least two things that might have influenced both performant and subjective experiences. Widening the track for the same CG height will see less load transfer to the outer wheels, meaning that in total the front and rear pairs will use the tires more efficiently (more total lateral force available). The second thing is the scrub radius of the tyre, which increases with lower offset of the wheels. That adds weight to steering and influences how the car communicates with the driver.
Thumbs up for using the classic RPF1 wheel 👍
the scientific approach to this is intoxicating. thank you.
First video that i see from you guys and i have to say that the quality of the video is really great. Very useful and fun to watch :)
What was the offset of all the wheels?
That can also change the lever of the suspension.
A wheel that sticks out further does make the suspension softer as it acting as a longer 'lever' on your suspension."
in Australia, our RWD cars most common Factory 17" setup is 235/45/17 on an 8 inch rim, I would have been interested to see how that went, especially as the cars are 200-400 lbs heavier than the BRZ. but I have always followed the advice our our biggest nation wide independent tyre chain
A content I have been waiting for thirty years!
And Finally!!
Thank you Tire Rack for making things happen.
We are happy to hear you enjoyed the video!
This video popped up coincedentally as my 18x8.5" rims are on the way. Perfect timing.
That's just how we roll! 🤣
I run pilot sport 5 225 45 R17 on a 7.5 inch wide rim for my daily driver and it feels great compared to the economy tires that were on the rims before. good grip and traction and for the first time since I boguht the car, enough grip to not only put down the power in third, but in second too wich feels absolutely amazing. and this is on a fwd hot hatch with 320 wheel horsepower.
on a previous car I used to track did I try out different combos and only went for feel, simply because I only went to track days so the time wasn't that important, it was all about how fun the car was to drive. after some testing did I figure out that a Toyo Proxes R888R 225 40 R18 on a 8.5 inch wide wheel felt the best on track.
I read an article based on testing that found square shoulders on a tire at 40-50% sidewall is best for all around use. It looks like this video confirms this.
Awesome, this test is a dream come true.
Thank you so much for your support!
Weird that this is the way I put a face to a name for TJ. Great dude, great comparison!
We are happy to hear you enjoy the video!
I've literally been looking into rpf1 in 17x9 and debating what size tire to put on it thanks for this
Keep it up guys, this is what makes me a loyal customer!
Thank you for your kind words and support!
Great video! I love these data-based comparisons. Thanks for doing this detailed analysis! It would be interesting to see the differences(if any) on AWD and FWD vehicles.
We are happy you enjoyed the video!
Came here to say the same
Hands up! Best professional test in the market!
Thank you!
Another factor people overlook also is depending on the weight of the vehicle, lighter cars really dont like wider tires (even if supported properly by a rim) You then have to start playing with tire compound which is out of scope for most road tires. There is also a saying that you can over tire the car. More pad displacement or contact patch with a compound that isnt squishing into the pavement because you have distributed the load too much across the tire and reduce the tires bite into the road.
Awsome comparaison, I would love to see that test for FWD and AWD to see the difference
What's the weight difference between the 3 tires and wheels? The extra weight of the 245s could have accounted for the slower lap times.
My comment is that a slightly stretched tyre can be fast, but it is especially unforgiving when the tyre temperature increases so I would not choose it for myself. Narrower wheels give less steering feel, but are very forgiving and good when learning about the tyre warm up and pressure settings. My own preference is to choose the correct wheel to match the tyre. It's good to experiment with different compounds, tyre brands, negative camber, anti-sway bars, and obviously the tyre pressure. There are many variables to optimise performance without going for a stretched tyre.
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Once again comes down to where you live for best choice of tire. If you live where it's dry 75% of the time, rainy less than 20% of the time & less then 5% snow. You're better off choosing all season tire just 10mm wider for your stock rims. My 10mm wider tires also protect me from curb rash. I wonder how this video will differ with AWD vehicle. Personally Michelin Pilot Sport All Season is my favorite tire in NE.
No mention of tyre pressures used with the various sizes. Also a key factor not mentioned is the weight of the tyre and wheel in different sizes - can be a massive differences in unsprung weight.
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Narrower tires are better supported laterally but you can often compensate with tire pressure. They want more tire pressure from my experience .
This was my thought as well. Some testing with different tire pressures would have definitely been good to add to this video.
Read years ago that mazda did a similiar test when they were developing the NA Miata. I'm sure the change in tire tech since the late 80s would probably change the outcome.
I think the NA Miata ran 175mm(?) tyres on a 14x5", which was relatively small even for the time, as at that time exotic cars tended to run 16" wheels with 205-225mm tyres (like the Porsche 911) and very exotic cars tended to run 17" wheels (I think Pirelli said they were the first to release 17" radials specifically for the Ferrari F40). It's funny how that Porsche 911 front tyre size is now an economy car tyre size!
Edit -- My bad, it was 185/60 R14 on a 14"x5.5". So a little lower profile & wider rim width than the sportscars of the late 60's and about the same kind of profile and rim width as a lot of sportscars from the mid 70's?
For reference, the early 60's Lotus Elan -- that some say the MX-5 is a copy of! -- ran a 165mm x 13" standard profile (82%) tyre on a 13"x4.5" wheel. Then obviously increasingly low profile tyres like 70%, 60% (then 45%, 40% in the 1980's & 1990's, and nowadays 30% or 25%) were developed over the decades. I think the development of low profile tyres over the decades is an interesting topic!
brilliant, keep going even the tires themselves are not cheap at all. Hope seeing more UHP tire test, or Semi-slick tires, like RE71rs VS Cup2c VS AD09, if you could test all tw180/240 Cup2, that will be even better!
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