A simple way to contain chips: consider making a "dog house" out of a cardboard shipping box. Cut off the flaps and add an access hole, set it over the saw. almost all of the chips will be contained under the box . If fire is a concern, a light mist of water on the cardboard fixes that. No need to keep the used box. It is a good way to use those shipping boxes. By the way, boxes also make great mini paint booths.
I think they didn't make a vacuum port is because of HOT sparks from cutting steel. I think unless you add water to a wet and dry vacuum you could have a fire if you just use a vacuum dry. ( That is if there is anything flammable you have vacuumed up)
The combination of unknown Magnesium and adding steel sparks on a belt sander....this makes the hose glow real pretty for about 30 seconds. Once the internal filter fails, the vacuum begins belching out black smoke from whatever is in the can. After 25 years, I'm still not over the experience of that!
Concur - needs steel tube, and a spark quench bucket so the drawn-air does a 180 degree turn but the sparks all drop into a bucket with water at the bottom.
Evolution’s sliding compound saw which is dual purpose metal / wood has the same blade and has a vacuum port built in, so does their dual purpose saw bench. I get chips everywhere as well on both machines whether I run the vacuum or not, the physics is that a metal chip has higher mass than a wooden chip and therefore needs a significantly higher airflow to overcome the kinetic energy. You can use the 1/2mv^2 equation, where the velocity is the same in either wood or metal as the blade speed is fixed, but the mass m is different. Simple physics 😊
I use this saw in my shop and put it inside of a tile saw tent. Keeps all the chips in the tent and I have a hole in the side and a saw horse next to it for longer stock.
Tiny fusion 360 tip. When creating lines, if you click and drag off of an existing point, it makes tangent curves instead of line segments. Thats why the symbol for lines has a curve in it too. Always wondered why that was, and learned it recently.
I don’t know if this helpful but I’ll put it out there. I avoid saws like that one favoring my 4x6 horizontal bandsaw since it’s much quieter and doesn’t throw chips so far. For storage and convenience I mounted my band saw on a harbor freight hydraulic lift table. I can raise and lower the saw for comfort and storage. It fits under a workbench and for heavier materials I can just make the cut lower to the ground. The table top of the lift actually makes a pretty good catch pan for the chips as well.
Have you considered making a larger collection attachment? I’m thinking something more the size that is used behind the blade area of a radial arm saw. Have the opening stick out to the right side maybe 6 inches and down to the table, and some sort of port that would go down behind the blade and off to its left side a few inches. And maybe connect the vacuum to a replacement tray so you’d have some downward flow as well. Seems like that might catch a lot more of the chips. As to safety with hot chips, I have a vacuum catching the hot dust off my bench grinder. I did go the cyclone route, but it’s a plastic cyclone. I don’t think there is any real issue with fire since I have the cyclone used only for that one machine, no wood allowed. I also have a double screen I installed over the output port of the cyclone so hot chips can’t get to the shop vac. With the screen, I think it would probably be safe even using my dust collection system to provide vacuum since hot chips really cant get into the collection system. I’m thinking this might be another thing that would improve chip collection since you could use a 3 inch cyclone and get a lot more air flow to pull in chips. Whether all this is worth it is another matter 😀
When I used them a lot, I would stick those clean up magnets (the ones you can pull to drop the chips off) on the end up the mitered part and near the spray and would get quite a bit. Won’t help you on some materials but did help on steel, which was most of what I cut. Tape can also help. Great video as always
Use a leather welding apron attached to the top of the saw guard and hanging over the edge of the table to knock down the chips. Some steel wool in the tubing will catch the chips.
The only solution we ever came up with at the shop I used to work at was to keep it in an area that was easy to sweep. And a face shield in addition to the safeties is a good idea
For home shop or small business use, the Evolution saw in the video is great. It would be difficult to find a saw that cuts steel quicker and more accurately that the Evolution. Unfortunately, circular saws just throw crap everywhere. It’s just the nature of the beast. I mounted my Evolution saw on the RIDGID Mobile Miter Saw Stand (AC9946). When not in use it folds up tight and stands in the corner of the shop instead of the work table. When in use, I’m no longer kneeling on the floor. Another great video! Thank you for sharing you experiences.
I noticed a pretty large opening in the area above the new part, likely where the blade guard fits into when the saw is raised. That represents a serious suction leak that will dramatically affect your vacuum's ability to pull in more of the chips. Can't solved the chips out the end of the miter, but could get a lot more of the rest of them. You would likely need something flexible to allow for the saw vertical movement and that attaches to both the blade guard and the new part. A piece of tape over the open end of the material can catch chips and then after the cut shake it out over your trash. I think these 2 improvements could have a pretty large effect on your results.
Pretty much all of them tend to have garbage chip/dust management so if you actually solve this problem you'll have a goldmine. I think without fully enclosing it, the only really successful way is to have an octopus of vacuum hoses with various magnetic/clamping attachments so you can place them individually for each cut. Thanks for showing us how you went from idea to finished part instead of saying "I want a vacuum port on this, so I made one." It was super insightful.
You need a "mess room" for saws and grinders. And as noted elsewhere, the heat is in the chip - not sure anything plastic (including most vacs) is gonna be a good idea.
This was quite an interesting article - reminds me of an article I was looking at a few days ago of something you may need, if you do not already have one, a Magnetic Broom.
I have a couple of the Evolution saws. They are really great for sawing thin stock. I'm sure the reason they were not built with dust collector fittings is it is hard to imagine a more dangerous situation than hot chips and sparks being drawn into a dust collection system that may be using paper filters and full of sawdust.
Metal chips in a woodworking dust collector are indeed a pretty bad combo. I've seen a lot of people worried about hitting a nail or screw with the table saw and getting into trouble.
I love my saw (compared to the old 14" abrasive) but I agree the chips flying everywhere is a pain. So I've also made it a floor tool, to my backs disagreement. I've considered a vacuum port too, but I almost think some curtains made from welding blanket or similar would be better!
That was an awesome video! I have made several (simpler) parts like that, but haven’t had the benefit of a 3D scanner. I really enjoyed seeing your work flow, seeing what the scanner and software would do, and what it wouldn’t. I learned a bunch. Thanks!
Personally I refer to them are carbide metal saws or steel slinger. Sure they are cold saws but I differentiate those by the slower rpm, less mess and a 5k+ price tag. The evolution saws are great but the evolution S355mcs is most likely the best saw you can buy for the price.
I'm a hobbyist. I sold that beast after a few uses. Loud as a jet engine and freaking hot chips everywhere. Good for a large working shop I guess. I now have that scanner and appreciate learning about it from these two videos. (lathe) Scan more stuff James!!!! :-)
Seems like it's the nature of saws to make a mess. Either flying chips or coolant containment, sometimes both! A real cold saw (Scotchman) is great for chip control, but the coolant runs right down long tubes and requires strategic bucket placements or some kind of large infeed/outfeed system. I'll still take the Evolution or other dry-cut saw over the abrasive versions. I just keep it on wheels and roll it out of the shop for most cutting jobs.
I have the same issue. There are canvas dust collector hoods for wood saws which obviously wouldn't work with hot chips. However, I have been thinking of copying the design, but having one sewn up from a welding blanket.
Have you considered getting a welding curtain around your welding table? that will at least contain the chips to that area. The 3D scanning thing looks like a lot of work for a relatively simple part, but I can see that it would be great for more complex, less orthogonal parts that would be difficult to measure. Great stuff as usual.
Similar thought, using certain type of a flexible curtain/shield to reflect all chips within smaller area. What about Magnet Shield to absorb all metal chip then unmagnetized for clean up.
The few times I needed to use a Cold saw, the ones available to me All had a fluid supply to the cut area. Not solely for a cutting aid, but also as a means to control and constrain the cut material to the pan used to contain the filtered and recirculated fluid. Simply scoop out the non-ferrous cuttings or use a magnet for the ferrous material removal as needed. Helps Immensely! 👍 I miss having a Machine shop and a Lab at my disposal! 😢 Mike in San Diego. 🌞🎸🚀🖖
James, I think I know they didn't add this feature from the factory... Your vacuum cleaner will eventually catch fire by sucking in the sparks produced. I have a belt sander with an integrated vacuum system which collects the dust in a fabric bag. Once I cut some steel with it when I left the vacuum system running. It made quite an impression and I had to work hard to put the fire out. Maybe a tip that saves your shop. Best! Job
I've given up on using mine in the shop, when I need to use it, I take it outside. Then I sweep the concrete with a magnet in a plastic container and hit the whole area with a leaf blower to get rid of the rest. I am considering a magnetic broom which would make the cleanup a lot easier.
Love your content. Have learned a lot about both Fusion and 3D printing from you. Since you seem like a clean freak(not judging), keep the vacuum port and attach a strong magnet to a metal shield near the end of the tube. Magnets love metal. I need a solution for all the aluminum chips in my shop.
Seconded on the baby powder and IPA. If the part is small and you can wash it, it’s better than the Aesub stuff (I have both and use it all the time on an Einscan HX)
Perhaps some moveable sheet metal strips attached to magnets stuck to your welding table would help. You could move them about to try to get the ends of your cutoff guarded.
The hot chips was my first guess at why there was no "dust" port, but the lawyers literately having cows at the thought of attaching a shop vac with saw dust in it to this saw was another. I do think it's possible to collect the chips, but it may be so elaborate, its easier to just sweep them up. Another avenue, may be an enclosure to let you saw at any angle, and length, but keep the chips contained to a "box". Something similar to an enclosure for a chop saw, or radial arm saw. Maybe even a vacuum channel in the chip drawer. Slow speed recordings of a saw cut may be helpful.
Have you tried using feature recognition on your scans? It seems like it might be a option for defeaturing and speeding up the process of creating an accurate part.
I just installed one of those small floor model on caster dust collector (Wen brand got cheap on amazon) on my surface grinder, as that was putting out tons of black dust everywhere. My guess is that's a future project for you too.
I was just watching the stuff turn white and it seems like you could store up on some of the spray on window snow around christmas time when it goes on clearance...
Putting the whole machine inside a big cardboard box with the opening towards you. far enough in that the material can just pass in front of the opening of the box greatly reduces cleanup You can even add a small hole on the sides of the box to pass material trough and put it even further back in the box. Just make shure you have enough hight in the box to operate the saw.
What about one of those 12” ‘sweep into vacuum’ adapters mounted to pegs that fit into the welding table holes so you can move it around the geometry of the part and still catch a wide swath of debris?
3D print a shield with a magnetic base. It would be easily adjusted around your workpiece, could mount directly to the welding table, and have a vacuum attachment at the base to collect the metal that hits it and falls down.
I'm always scared of vacuuming hot chips/sparks. I use double folded pieces of aluminum foil, taped in strategic places, for deflecting chips and sparks. Also works wonders for protection during welding.
I think some simple 3D printed end caps to fit in the piece you're cutting would help. They wouldn't end up in the vacuum but at least you could just dump them out
Thanks for showing that not only me have failures now and then with X1C. Now seems like everywhere I turn I see people use X1C, not many bring up failure rate though. Good to realize that it's note medicine for all problems and thinking/planning print still is needed.
Hi James. I’ve thought about this exact problem for quite a while. My current ‘fix’, is to take the saw out onto the concrete apron, and vac up the chips bold at the end of each session. On a number of the welding channels, I’ve seen guys construct a ‘grinding table’ that has hoods/deflectors/chutes incorporated, with a cyclone system providing the evacuation function. Maybe a mite ‘excessive’ for a hobby shop though? Anyhoo, thanks so much for taking all the time and effort to record these very informative ‘tutorials’. Regards, Robert
I was sad when my Prusa MK2s died, and bought a Bambu P1P largely because of your video on the X1. Within 3 hours of receiving it I was glad the MK2s died! Thank you!
I highly recommend getting orca slicer for the bambu labs x1 carbon and using the bambu labs support interface material. I'm about to try out BVOH in my ams
You could try adding a sort of enclosure made out of those brush strips they use on cnc router dust boots. Just use some magnets to hold it together for easy removal.
I get asked a lot about why I don't just use my Evolution chop saw and this video is the answer. Hot chips everywhere. Unless I have a large fabrication project I prefer to use the horizontal band saw and just let it run. Great idea on the vacuum port though, too bad it wasn't more effective. If you were in the market for a 3d scanner now would you still get the one you have?
What about a Y adapter in the hose, and a flat plate across the end of the second hose, with a hole in the middle? That would draw air and chips from inside the work. Harder more-complex solution is to make a complete enclosure somewhat like your mill, perforate the stage with speed holes and let the chips fall downward. Empty it with a shovel like a lathe chip pan.
Nice scan, and print job, James. Chips are the bane of our existence in the shop. Saw dust is just as bad. I have wheels on my table saw take it outside to cut. The Bridgeport, and South-bend lathe would be more of a challenge to roll around. I am sure you will find a solution.
Great stuff again james. This is the reason I dumped my “cold saw” for a mitering head bandsaw. The cuts aren’t as good or as quick, but it’s quiet and clean. Ahhhhhhh. 🤗. Keep up the great work. I always learn something new. Cheers!
It seems as if the airflow towards the vacuum would be really improved with a flat sheet of material on the right hand side of the saw that extended forwards from the vacuum port to the back of the vice. This wouldn't impeded putting long straight pieces of stock through the saw. The stock would hit it on mitre cuts, but if you made it of that thick synthetic rubber material that is sometimes used to protect the ways on machine tools, it could be pushed out of the way entirely for mitre cuts with a long cutoff (which are unlikely to leak many chips out the end), and if you're just mitreing an existing square cut then the end would be within the airflow area pushed up against the material.
how about a different approach to catching the chips? instead of the vac adapter, mound an electro magnet, like the base of a mag drill, that would be active while the power sw was on. maybe a deflector around the mag to ensure the chips are all directed toward the mag. a catch pan below the mag would catch the chips when the power was removed. the vac hose stuck in the hollow tubing would catch a lot of those errant chips.
part of me wants to think a curtain of something like silicone fingers - akin to dreadlocks - held a short distance away from the saw - such that the length would preclude any ever reaching the blade- would allow chips to be arrested in motion from the softness of the dangle, while not being so elastic to rebound them further/elsewhere. The strands would be far enough apart that no chips would ever get stuck in them - and silicone is high temperature resilient.
Mine, and I suppose yours, throws red hot, or actually orange hot shavings out the end. Anything plastic will at some point get the metal embedded into it. That results in clogs and possibly melted plastic, or even fumes. The worst could end up as a fire. That’s why they don’t want a plastic vacuum hose attached that close to a port. The metal can reach 1500 f. Hopefully that won’t happen, but it could. I hope I’m wrong, but this port doesn’t look that efficient. I imagine it will catch some chips. But the port should be in direct alignment with the direction the chips are being thrown in. Also, it should be shaped as a funnel so that it has a large initial opening which will , er, funnel the chips into the port. I’ve tried to solve the chip problem too. I made a polycarbonate shield at the back of the saw that bends around the sides as much as possible without interfering with the metal I’m cutting. This is part of the swiveling stand I made with a metal draw under the saw to collect chips. I believe I can contain about 80% of the chips as the saw doesn’t sit in a table. The bottom is open to the draw under it. But nothing I can do stops everything. It’s annoying, but a consequence of metal cutting. Everything I use leaves chips all over.
What would happen if you put a few large neodymium magnets strategically placed around the saw? To make clean up faster make tubes to go around the magnets and then when you pull the magnets out the chips fall off of the PLA tubes.
Very useful video, I’ve been considering one of these but didn’t know about the mess. Now I not only know that, but a,so what to do about it :-) I’d be inclined to jerry-rig a deflector or just plug the ends of the tubes with something, though. - How about just 3D printing some plugs that will fit in the ends of the tubes? A loose fit aided by a bit of duct tape or … glue some little magnets into recesses in the sides of the plugs to keep them in place. If you’re using the saw much, it seems like a set of plugs in a few standard sizes should pretty much save all the mess.
I had an abrasive saw, got rid of it due to throwing grit everywhere. Got an Evolution equivalent, and it's been sitting on a shelf ever since getting a band saw. If I have to use it, it's put under a cardboard box to contain the chips as much as possible.
Maby try to make a box at the side and put some soft material at places it hits...hopefully it will not bunch away that easy. For example the original part you switched...you could put some soft material inside there
I'd been working on a replacement chip tray design that included the vacuum port, on the theory that there would be something of a "downdraft" effect over the entire blade slot area. A heavy foil layer was to be used as a tray liner to avoid the melting problem from the hot chips in the 3D printed tray. Unfortunately, I was still working on the tray latch design when I was laid off in March, so I didn't get to try it. I expected there would still be chips flying, but hoped that a better collection system would mean that I wouldn't have to move the saw outside every time I needed to cut the aluminum extrusions that I usually used the saw for. The vacuum tray was only to be the first step in looking for a solution to the problem.
I wonder if you could get some directed air to help 'assist' the chips move to where they can get picked up by the vac? For that 45 cut, maybe blowing air up the tube? Hmm...
a Canvas screen or plexiglass diverter to limit the chip spread seems prudent, Kind of like the chip deflectors people use with vertical mills to limit chip spread (some people use cardboard as their chip diverter but I would be concerned about the hot chips). the goal of the screen/diverter is just to limit the space you have to clean.
Very nice! For the chips that get shot out of the side, how about a 3D printed catch box mounted on a transverse rod to position it for different material lengths? And I guess if it it just makes chips and not dust you could dispense with the vac and use a catch box for the back as well.
What about connecting the chip drawer to the vacuum too? You would propably need to 3D-print something that can jack into the existing 3D printed part to make a Y connection. If the whole slit where the blade goes down also is a vacuum port it might help with chip collection? You might need a more powerful shop vac in that case.
ypu have to sweep the floor anyways because you still have to grind your parts, descaling and shaping your weld, weld spatter, and trimmings. Just get some really good slicer wheels and save 50% or more cost per cut
i got a picnic food tent a couple years ago to protect painting projects from dust, i just threw it over my cold saw last night and so far it seems to help. i can tell its containing things because i'm getting hot chips on the hand under the tent holding the saw switch, so i wear a glove. the mesh lets in pretty much all the light and easy to see everything going on through it. the chips do burn holes in it, particularly along the back bottom (which is also interesting to see that is where most of the chips throw, but a half dozen pinholes here and there seem like they may not be any particular problem. the tent collapses in a split second and takes up basically zero storage room. i wish it was cheaper than $25, wouldn't want to replace often if i did a lot of cutting, maybe there's a cheaper option or maybe i can tape over the burns. similar idea as @TomasFaalPetersson @SamThurlow
I usually put some duct tape over the end of the tube. It doesn’t completely solve the problem, but does reduce the chips somewhat
3d print universal tube covers with neodymium magnets embedded in the print. Reusable and chips hold to the magnets
@@shitdogtacopoop Not aluminum chips
A simple way to contain chips: consider making a "dog house" out of a cardboard shipping box. Cut off the flaps and add an access hole, set it over the saw. almost all of the chips will be contained under the box . If fire is a concern, a light mist of water on the cardboard fixes that. No need to keep the used box. It is a good way to use those shipping boxes. By the way, boxes also make great mini paint booths.
This is the solution. Been doing this for years.
It's CAD - Cardboard Aided Design.
I think they didn't make a vacuum port is because of HOT sparks from cutting steel. I think unless you add water to a wet and dry vacuum you could have a fire if you just use a vacuum dry. ( That is if there is anything flammable you have vacuumed up)
The combination of unknown Magnesium and adding steel sparks on a belt sander....this makes the hose glow real pretty for about 30 seconds. Once the internal filter fails, the vacuum begins belching out black smoke from whatever is in the can. After 25 years, I'm still not over the experience of that!
Concur - needs steel tube, and a spark quench bucket so the drawn-air does a 180 degree turn but the sparks all drop into a bucket with water at the bottom.
These are cold cut saws, although the chips glow red they are not nearly as hot at a abrasive saw.
Evolution’s sliding compound saw which is dual purpose metal / wood has the same blade and has a vacuum port built in, so does their dual purpose saw bench.
I get chips everywhere as well on both machines whether I run the vacuum or not, the physics is that a metal chip has higher mass than a wooden chip and therefore needs a significantly higher airflow to overcome the kinetic energy. You can use the 1/2mv^2 equation, where the velocity is the same in either wood or metal as the blade speed is fixed, but the mass m is different. Simple physics 😊
I was under the impression that the lack of vacuum dust collection on these tools was because of thermite risk.
I use this saw in my shop and put it inside of a tile saw tent. Keeps all the chips in the tent and I have a hole in the side and a saw horse next to it for longer stock.
Tiny fusion 360 tip. When creating lines, if you click and drag off of an existing point, it makes tangent curves instead of line segments. Thats why the symbol for lines has a curve in it too. Always wondered why that was, and learned it recently.
I don’t know if this helpful but I’ll put it out there. I avoid saws like that one favoring my 4x6 horizontal bandsaw since it’s much quieter and doesn’t throw chips so far. For storage and convenience I mounted my band saw on a harbor freight hydraulic lift table. I can raise and lower the saw for comfort and storage. It fits under a workbench and for heavier materials I can just make the cut lower to the ground. The table top of the lift actually makes a pretty good catch pan for the chips as well.
Have you considered making a larger collection attachment? I’m thinking something more the size that is used behind the blade area of a radial arm saw. Have the opening stick out to the right side maybe 6 inches and down to the table, and some sort of port that would go down behind the blade and off to its left side a few inches. And maybe connect the vacuum to a replacement tray so you’d have some downward flow as well. Seems like that might catch a lot more of the chips.
As to safety with hot chips, I have a vacuum catching the hot dust off my bench grinder. I did go the cyclone route, but it’s a plastic cyclone. I don’t think there is any real issue with fire since I have the cyclone used only for that one machine, no wood allowed. I also have a double screen I installed over the output port of the cyclone so hot chips can’t get to the shop vac.
With the screen, I think it would probably be safe even using my dust collection system to provide vacuum since hot chips really cant get into the collection system. I’m thinking this might be another thing that would improve chip collection since you could use a 3 inch cyclone and get a lot more air flow to pull in chips. Whether all this is worth it is another matter 😀
When I used them a lot, I would stick those clean up magnets (the ones you can pull to drop the chips off) on the end up the mitered part and near the spray and would get quite a bit. Won’t help you on some materials but did help on steel, which was most of what I cut. Tape can also help.
Great video as always
Use a leather welding apron attached to the top of the saw guard and hanging over the edge of the table to knock down the chips. Some steel wool in the tubing will catch the chips.
PAINTER'S TAPE ON THE END OF THE PARTS OU ARE CUTTING WORKS MIRACLE
The only solution we ever came up with at the shop I used to work at was to keep it in an area that was easy to sweep. And a face shield in addition to the safeties is a good idea
For home shop or small business use, the Evolution saw in the video is great. It would be difficult to find a saw that cuts steel quicker and more accurately that the Evolution. Unfortunately, circular saws just throw crap everywhere. It’s just the nature of the beast.
I mounted my Evolution saw on the RIDGID Mobile Miter Saw Stand (AC9946). When not in use it folds up tight and stands in the corner of the shop instead of the work table. When in use, I’m no longer kneeling on the floor.
Another great video! Thank you for sharing you experiences.
I noticed a pretty large opening in the area above the new part, likely where the blade guard fits into when the saw is raised. That represents a serious suction leak that will dramatically affect your vacuum's ability to pull in more of the chips. Can't solved the chips out the end of the miter, but could get a lot more of the rest of them. You would likely need something flexible to allow for the saw vertical movement and that attaches to both the blade guard and the new part.
A piece of tape over the open end of the material can catch chips and then after the cut shake it out over your trash. I think these 2 improvements could have a pretty large effect on your results.
Pretty much all of them tend to have garbage chip/dust management so if you actually solve this problem you'll have a goldmine. I think without fully enclosing it, the only really successful way is to have an octopus of vacuum hoses with various magnetic/clamping attachments so you can place them individually for each cut. Thanks for showing us how you went from idea to finished part instead of saying "I want a vacuum port on this, so I made one." It was super insightful.
You need a "mess room" for saws and grinders. And as noted elsewhere, the heat is in the chip - not sure anything plastic (including most vacs) is gonna be a good idea.
This was quite an interesting article - reminds me of an article I was looking at a few days ago of something you may need, if you do not already have one, a Magnetic Broom.
I have a couple of the Evolution saws. They are really great for sawing thin stock. I'm sure the reason they were not built with dust collector fittings is it is hard to imagine a more dangerous situation than hot chips and sparks being drawn into a dust collection system that may be using paper filters and full of sawdust.
Metal chips in a woodworking dust collector are indeed a pretty bad combo. I've seen a lot of people worried about hitting a nail or screw with the table saw and getting into trouble.
Even if it didn’t work out, I really like the practical application and seeing how you did it. 👍
I love my saw (compared to the old 14" abrasive) but I agree the chips flying everywhere is a pain. So I've also made it a floor tool, to my backs disagreement. I've considered a vacuum port too, but I almost think some curtains made from welding blanket or similar would be better!
That was an awesome video! I have made several (simpler) parts like that, but haven’t had the benefit of a 3D scanner. I really enjoyed seeing your work flow, seeing what the scanner and software would do, and what it wouldn’t. I learned a bunch. Thanks!
Personally I refer to them are carbide metal saws or steel slinger. Sure they are cold saws but I differentiate those by the slower rpm, less mess and a 5k+ price tag. The evolution saws are great but the evolution S355mcs is most likely the best saw you can buy for the price.
I'm a hobbyist. I sold that beast after a few uses. Loud as a jet engine and freaking hot chips everywhere. Good for a large working shop I guess. I now have that scanner and appreciate learning about it from these two videos. (lathe) Scan more stuff James!!!! :-)
Seems like it's the nature of saws to make a mess. Either flying chips or coolant containment, sometimes both! A real cold saw (Scotchman) is great for chip control, but the coolant runs right down long tubes and requires strategic bucket placements or some kind of large infeed/outfeed system. I'll still take the Evolution or other dry-cut saw over the abrasive versions. I just keep it on wheels and roll it out of the shop for most cutting jobs.
I have the same issue. There are canvas dust collector hoods for wood saws which obviously wouldn't work with hot chips. However, I have been thinking of copying the design, but having one sewn up from a welding blanket.
The mess is one reason I went with the Femi 105ABS bench top bandsaw. Very precise cuts, quieter, and much easier to contain the chips.
Have you considered getting a welding curtain around your welding table? that will at least contain the chips to that area. The 3D scanning thing looks like a lot of work for a relatively simple part, but I can see that it would be great for more complex, less orthogonal parts that would be difficult to measure. Great stuff as usual.
Similar thought, using certain type of a flexible curtain/shield to reflect all chips within smaller area. What about Magnet Shield to absorb all metal chip then unmagnetized for clean up.
The few times I needed to use a Cold saw, the ones available to me All had a fluid supply to the cut area. Not solely for a cutting aid, but also as a means to control and constrain the cut material to the pan used to contain the filtered and recirculated fluid.
Simply scoop out the non-ferrous cuttings or use a magnet for the ferrous material removal as needed.
Helps Immensely! 👍
I miss having a Machine shop and a Lab at my disposal! 😢
Mike in San Diego. 🌞🎸🚀🖖
Yeah, I've been looking at some of those saws. Most run a *lot* slower than the Evolution, and that also helps.
James, I think I know they didn't add this feature from the factory... Your vacuum cleaner will eventually catch fire by sucking in the sparks produced. I have a belt sander with an integrated vacuum system which collects the dust in a fabric bag. Once I cut some steel with it when I left the vacuum system running. It made quite an impression and I had to work hard to put the fire out. Maybe a tip that saves your shop. Best! Job
That's why I talked about this in the video.
I've given up on using mine in the shop, when I need to use it, I take it outside. Then I sweep the concrete with a magnet in a plastic container and hit the whole area with a leaf blower to get rid of the rest.
I am considering a magnetic broom which would make the cleanup a lot easier.
Love your content. Have learned a lot about both Fusion and 3D printing from you. Since you seem like a clean freak(not judging), keep the vacuum port and attach a strong magnet to a metal shield near the end of the tube. Magnets love metal. I need a solution for all the aluminum chips in my shop.
That's about the best scan of a part I've seen.
Like you, I decided the metal chop saw is too messy and just use the horizontal bansdsaw.
Seconded on the baby powder and IPA. If the part is small and you can wash it, it’s better than the Aesub stuff (I have both and use it all the time on an Einscan HX)
Thanks for posting your failures. It helps us know you’re human like the rest of us, and not just a perfectionist who gets it right every time. 😁
this was the perfect transition to my Sunday coffe. Thanks for the nice video
I learned a lot from your video. How about a 2nd vacuum scoop with a magnetic base to attach to table. Flow into dust separator with a water trap.
Perhaps some moveable sheet metal strips attached to magnets stuck to your welding table would help. You could move them about to try to get the ends of your cutoff guarded.
The hot chips was my first guess at why there was no "dust" port, but the lawyers literately having cows at the thought of attaching a shop vac with saw dust in it to this saw was another. I do think it's possible to collect the chips, but it may be so elaborate, its easier to just sweep them up. Another avenue, may be an enclosure to let you saw at any angle, and length, but keep the chips contained to a "box". Something similar to an enclosure for a chop saw, or radial arm saw. Maybe even a vacuum channel in the chip drawer. Slow speed recordings of a saw cut may be helpful.
Have you tried using feature recognition on your scans? It seems like it might be a option for defeaturing and speeding up the process of creating an accurate part.
I just installed one of those small floor model on caster dust collector (Wen brand got cheap on amazon) on my surface grinder, as that was putting out tons of black dust everywhere. My guess is that's a future project for you too.
I was just watching the stuff turn white and it seems like you could store up on some of the spray on window snow around christmas time when it goes on clearance...
Really enjoyed your video. You made it look fun. Chip control is its own science. Waiting to see how you solve that issue.
Putting the whole machine inside a big cardboard box with the opening towards you.
far enough in that the material can just pass in front of the opening of the box greatly reduces cleanup
You can even add a small hole on the sides of the box to pass material trough and put it even further back in the box.
Just make shure you have enough hight in the box to operate the saw.
What about one of those 12” ‘sweep into vacuum’ adapters mounted to pegs that fit into the welding table holes so you can move it around the geometry of the part and still catch a wide swath of debris?
3D print a shield with a magnetic base. It would be easily adjusted around your workpiece, could mount directly to the welding table, and have a vacuum attachment at the base to collect the metal that hits it and falls down.
I'm always scared of vacuuming hot chips/sparks. I use double folded pieces of aluminum foil, taped in strategic places, for deflecting chips and sparks. Also works wonders for protection during welding.
have been looking some time ok 3d scanner.. that einscan is maybe the choise. Not cheap but just speeding own project it maybe good choise.
I think some simple 3D printed end caps to fit in the piece you're cutting would help. They wouldn't end up in the vacuum but at least you could just dump them out
Thanks for showing that not only me have failures now and then with X1C. Now seems like everywhere I turn I see people use X1C, not many bring up failure rate though. Good to realize that it's note medicine for all problems and thinking/planning print still is needed.
Hi James.
I’ve thought about this exact problem for quite a while. My current ‘fix’, is to take the saw out onto the concrete apron, and vac up the chips bold at the end of each session.
On a number of the welding channels, I’ve seen guys construct a ‘grinding table’ that has hoods/deflectors/chutes incorporated, with a cyclone system providing the evacuation function.
Maybe a mite ‘excessive’ for a hobby shop though?
Anyhoo, thanks so much for taking all the time and effort to record these very informative ‘tutorials’.
Regards,
Robert
Nothing about Clough42's shop says "hobby" to me.
I was sad when my Prusa MK2s died, and bought a Bambu P1P largely because of your video on the X1. Within 3 hours of receiving it I was glad the MK2s died! Thank you!
I love sublimation, still remember it from school days.
When a solid changes to a gas without being a liquid in between 👍
Great work Mr 42
Make yourself a small shower booth with curtains for the saw, it should keep the mess contained.
I highly recommend getting orca slicer for the bambu labs x1 carbon and using the bambu labs support interface material. I'm about to try out BVOH in my ams
magnetic sweeper/broom cuts down on cleanup time (for ferrous metals)
You could try adding a sort of enclosure made out of those brush strips they use on cnc router dust boots. Just use some magnets to hold it together for easy removal.
I get asked a lot about why I don't just use my Evolution chop saw and this video is the answer. Hot chips everywhere. Unless I have a large fabrication project I prefer to use the horizontal band saw and just let it run. Great idea on the vacuum port though, too bad it wasn't more effective. If you were in the market for a 3d scanner now would you still get the one you have?
What about a Y adapter in the hose, and a flat plate across the end of the second hose, with a hole in the middle? That would draw air and chips from inside the work.
Harder more-complex solution is to make a complete enclosure somewhat like your mill, perforate the stage with speed holes and let the chips fall downward. Empty it with a shovel like a lathe chip pan.
Nice scan, and print job, James. Chips are the bane of our existence in the shop. Saw dust is just as bad. I have wheels on my table saw take it outside to cut. The Bridgeport, and South-bend lathe would be more of a challenge to roll around. I am sure you will find a solution.
What about some of the magnets that you can turn on/off? You can get really strong ones and make them positionable. Like on flex arms or something.
Great stuff again james. This is the reason I dumped my “cold saw” for a mitering head bandsaw. The cuts aren’t as good or as quick, but it’s quiet and clean. Ahhhhhhh. 🤗. Keep up the great work. I always learn something new. Cheers!
It seems as if the airflow towards the vacuum would be really improved with a flat sheet of material on the right hand side of the saw that extended forwards from the vacuum port to the back of the vice. This wouldn't impeded putting long straight pieces of stock through the saw. The stock would hit it on mitre cuts, but if you made it of that thick synthetic rubber material that is sometimes used to protect the ways on machine tools, it could be pushed out of the way entirely for mitre cuts with a long cutoff (which are unlikely to leak many chips out the end), and if you're just mitreing an existing square cut then the end would be within the airflow area pushed up against the material.
how about a different approach to catching the chips? instead of the vac adapter, mound an electro magnet, like the base of a mag drill, that would be active while the power sw was on. maybe a deflector around the mag to ensure the chips are all directed toward the mag. a catch pan below the mag would catch the chips when the power was removed. the vac hose stuck in the hollow tubing would catch a lot of those errant chips.
We use a portable band saw for all our metal cutting. It's much cleaner and quieter. Interesting project, thanks for sharing.
part of me wants to think a curtain of something like silicone fingers - akin to dreadlocks - held a short distance away from the saw - such that the length would preclude any ever reaching the blade- would allow chips to be arrested in motion from the softness of the dangle, while not being so elastic to rebound them further/elsewhere. The strands would be far enough apart that no chips would ever get stuck in them - and silicone is high temperature resilient.
I wonder if a dust separator with water at the bottom of the bucket would prevent sparks and such.
Mine, and I suppose yours, throws red hot, or actually orange hot shavings out the end. Anything plastic will at some point get the metal embedded into it. That results in clogs and possibly melted plastic, or even fumes. The worst could end up as a fire. That’s why they don’t want a plastic vacuum hose attached that close to a port. The metal can reach 1500 f.
Hopefully that won’t happen, but it could. I hope I’m wrong, but this port doesn’t look that efficient. I imagine it will catch some chips. But the port should be in direct alignment with the direction the chips are being thrown in. Also, it should be shaped as a funnel so that it has a large initial opening which will , er, funnel the chips into the port.
I’ve tried to solve the chip problem too. I made a polycarbonate shield at the back of the saw that bends around the sides as much as possible without interfering with the metal I’m cutting. This is part of the swiveling stand I made with a metal draw under the saw to collect chips. I believe I can contain about 80% of the chips as the saw doesn’t sit in a table. The bottom is open to the draw under it. But nothing I can do stops everything. It’s annoying, but a consequence of metal cutting. Everything I use leaves chips all over.
What would happen if you put a few large neodymium magnets strategically placed around the saw? To make clean up faster make tubes to go around the magnets and then when you pull the magnets out the chips fall off of the PLA tubes.
I’ve seen some other TH-camrs use an isopropyl alcohol and baby powder mixture as an alternative to the expensive stuff.
Very useful video, I’ve been considering one of these but didn’t know about the mess. Now I not only know that, but a,so what to do about it :-) I’d be inclined to jerry-rig a deflector or just plug the ends of the tubes with something, though.
- How about just 3D printing some plugs that will fit in the ends of the tubes? A loose fit aided by a bit of duct tape or … glue some little magnets into recesses in the sides of the plugs to keep them in place. If you’re using the saw much, it seems like a set of plugs in a few standard sizes should pretty much save all the mess.
Great idea, but how do you prevent the sparks turn the vacuumcleaner in a fireball
I own a 14" abrasive saw, have not used it in 15 years since owning a band saw!
The evolution is not abrasive
I had an abrasive saw, got rid of it due to throwing grit everywhere. Got an Evolution equivalent, and it's been sitting on a shelf ever since getting a band saw. If I have to use it, it's put under a cardboard box to contain the chips as much as possible.
I have the Einscan HX and a Bambu X1C. It's a great combo for stuff like this.
needs something on the edge of the saw and on the edge of the guard cover, as there where it looks like a lot of the bounced chips are coming from.
I have that saw. I customized the heck out of it, and it's an absolute unit. But yeah, it makes a mess. I only use it outside of my shop.
Wide mouth , square or rectangular funnel, with a 90 degree face to wrap 2 sides of that corner of the saw, and your vacuum attachment.
Shucks, fat finger.. Let the funnel stand on the table top when cutting.
Excellent production! Chips happen :)
Maby try to make a box at the side and put some soft material at places it hits...hopefully it will not bunch away that easy. For example the original part you switched...you could put some soft material inside there
I was totally cringing when you painted the part with scanner spray directly on your fixture table...good to know it sublimates away!
I'd been working on a replacement chip tray design that included the vacuum port, on the theory that there would be something of a "downdraft" effect over the entire blade slot area. A heavy foil layer was to be used as a tray liner to avoid the melting problem from the hot chips in the 3D printed tray. Unfortunately, I was still working on the tray latch design when I was laid off in March, so I didn't get to try it. I expected there would still be chips flying, but hoped that a better collection system would mean that I wouldn't have to move the saw outside every time I needed to cut the aluminum extrusions that I usually used the saw for. The vacuum tray was only to be the first step in looking for a solution to the problem.
I wonder if you could get some directed air to help 'assist' the chips move to where they can get picked up by the vac? For that 45 cut, maybe blowing air up the tube? Hmm...
a Canvas screen or plexiglass diverter to limit the chip spread seems prudent, Kind of like the chip deflectors people use with vertical mills to limit chip spread (some people use cardboard as their chip diverter but I would be concerned about the hot chips). the goal of the screen/diverter is just to limit the space you have to clean.
Very nice!
For the chips that get shot out of the side, how about a 3D printed catch box mounted on a transverse rod to position it for different material lengths?
And I guess if it it just makes chips and not dust you could dispense with the vac and use a catch box for the back as well.
Some sort of small tent covering the saw while in use maybe?
Fascinating process but if you can build an enclosure and line it with acoustic material you might address both issues.
Can you post your model files? I’ve got some ideas and it would be cool to reference your design! Thank you for the video! Learned allot!
These saws are so productive, I tolerate the chips. My work bench is on casters. I just roll it to the garage door so the chips fly out onto the lawn.
Would you get enough of the chips if you pulled a vaccume from the chip collection area as well?
How about a containment cabinet on a elevated bench with rollers to hold material.
Since these chips aren't burnt grinding dust, would a magnet catch a more of them?
I guess tubes need large enclosure and or blocking ends. I wonder if vacuum works well on solid stuff, I see no reason not to.
Fail. Love it! Nice to see in not the only one to wonder down a blind path from time to time. Thanks for sharing.
3D scanning is good and all. For parts like this, just take photos and import it to 3D cad and take measurements with calipers. That is much faster.
What about connecting the chip drawer to the vacuum too? You would propably need to 3D-print something that can jack into the existing 3D printed part to make a Y connection. If the whole slit where the blade goes down also is a vacuum port it might help with chip collection? You might need a more powerful shop vac in that case.
Always great content.
3D print an adapter for the work piece too. And split the vacuum tube in two. 😎
ypu have to sweep the floor anyways because you still have to grind your parts, descaling and shaping your weld, weld spatter, and trimmings. Just get some really good slicer wheels and save 50% or more cost per cut
Would a “brush” type curtain help? Similar to the ones used on Matthias waddles pantarouter?
i got a picnic food tent a couple years ago to protect painting projects from dust, i just threw it over my cold saw last night and so far it seems to help. i can tell its containing things because i'm getting hot chips on the hand under the tent holding the saw switch, so i wear a glove. the mesh lets in pretty much all the light and easy to see everything going on through it. the chips do burn holes in it, particularly along the back bottom (which is also interesting to see that is where most of the chips throw, but a half dozen pinholes here and there seem like they may not be any particular problem. the tent collapses in a split second and takes up basically zero storage room. i wish it was cheaper than $25, wouldn't want to replace often if i did a lot of cutting, maybe there's a cheaper option or maybe i can tape over the burns. similar idea as @TomasFaalPetersson @SamThurlow
but i still do cut on the floor in a corner
Those things are messy, but have ever used a nibbler on sheet metal?
Aluminum coilstock shrouds and neo magnets. Capture ferrous and block non-ferrous.