Games Workshop - Market Update - Summer 2024
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- With Skaventide out we discuss the current state of Games Workshop games and how they are doing in the average LGS.
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If skaven tide came with skaven and lizardmen or skaven and slaves to darkness or skaven and gloomspite glitz or skaven and cities of sigmar? I would have picked one or two up.
3 years isn’t long enough between editions, that’s the issue
Certainly feels that way
People are moaning about bolt action v3 coming out.. was 8 years since 2nd launched. GW like selling you books though to bloat the game then reset.
@@gozewstuffnthings5837 the mark up for books is insane, you can get them printed for £2.5 a book in bulk😂 gw likes to sell those “limited” ones for £100 mental amount
@@gozewstuffnthings5837 But it's only been on this 3 year cycle for about the last 6 years plus they keep increasing the number of armies so it's getting insane. The very first WE codex ever going out of production and being invalidated within months blew people away. Now not only does GW have a 3 year cycle but the books don't even cross over before replacement! Now maybe it will only be this one time but they did it with both 40k and AoS, games with totally different circumstances.
Yep. They could easily set it to 5 years and be just fine. They have the General's Handbook seasons to keep things moving in between editions.
"Am I a joke to you guys?" - Old World
@@robbyv101 seems to be 😂
AoS fanboys in denial…😂
You know in a year when they sell skaventide at a huge discount it will be amazing value for the consumer, just hope lgs’s don’t get bitten because of that.
Who is 'they'?
@@wesleyejacksongw, amazon, other liquidators.
Amazon, lgs’s, GW and other liquidators.
@@FluteGnome I'm certain that GW won't be doing a clearance sale.
Appreciate this perspective on the hobby Hope you guys do a video on GW's annual report, curious to hear your takeaways.
I played some Spearhead the other day and it was pretty good. I hope the will continue to support it maybe by putting out extra lists for factions that don't have any e.g. Ironjaws :)
Best channel on youtube! Thanks for the video.
Skaventide flopped like a fish; people are broke and they still have too much grey plastic to get through from all of the 90 FOMO boxes that have came out recently. Mini FOMO boxes are a lot like Costco Toilet Paper. You really feel like you're getting a lot and saving money at the time; because you are. But in the same way that TP works, you use the FOMO boxes the same way, one piece at a time. Do you go out and buy more TP when you have 20 rolls lying around? I think this logic applies to minis too. Why do I not want the Skaventide box for myself? Because I'm still looking at my Leviathan box minis that I haven't finished yet
I must be the weird one because I don’t have a pile of grey to paint.
I also finished my Leviathan, but in fairness I split the box with a playgroup member so we each only had half the models (give or take) to paint.
Few questions so far. Do you think they finally hit the threshold of price increase and market fatigue? Are expectations so skewed from the limited availability of everything else that it legitimately feels odd to see stock last past a preorder window? Have people gotten into the habit of just waiting for a restock to get the items they want to avoid preorder day stress/aggravation? Is there resentment carrying over from all of the models being retired a month or so ago?
Sales at my local Warhammer store TANKED the last few months. Something definetly happened there.
As a new hobbyist I was quite surprised by the release of Spearhead from GW. There finally seemed to be a game that was designed for new players at a 'reasonable' (in GW dollars) price point. I hope to see them do more with the system in the future, new expansions (hopefully not mandatory) would be easy to make and retain my interest if they continue on; only time will tell if the soulblight models I got will continue to be used for spearhead/AOS, or if they'll serve their purpose as evil monsters in other miniature skirmish games.
Death wizard my friend :-) best use for GW death models there is ;-)
As a new player you might also be unaware those boxes are worse value than the old style ones they are replacing.
Deth wizards, Rangers of Shadowdeep, Frostgrave, a Vampire Mordheim warband, these are all the reasons why I bought into Soulblight
@@tobyjohnson9136 It'll never be the same as the Start Collecting boxes but I felt like the Soulblight box in particular had good value in comparison to the other GW offerings, even among spearheads/vanguards
I was tempted to buy Skaventide until GW announced almost immediately that they were releasing the Spearhead parts independently. That was about the only thing in the box that appealed to me, and now I can get just that for a fraction of the price. If GW marketing had held off for a couple months on announcing the parts of Skaventide as independent releases (the starter boxes, Spearhead boxes, Spearhead rules & board, the core rulebook) then maybe they could have moved a couple extra units. Instead the machine immediately forgot about Skaventide after the release weekend and cut it off at the knees.
for skaventide I only care about the rats, Stormcast ARE NOT SPACE MARINES. They just don't gather the same interest. I think it's a good opportunity to diversify launch box armies, there's specific stormcast models that I like , but few and far between. Also wanna try vanguard as this will be my first AOS edition.
Yes, I think it’s clear that as much as GW wants them to be fantasy space marines, the market does not agree
*looks at the market*
It appears you are correct
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 What's weird is they insist on having the same level of releases for them as if they were Space Marines though to the point that we're already getting Primaris ones and they've squatted units from a less than 8 year army to reduce bloat. It was a shame they stopped with the different sprues of shields with the different "chapter" symbols, however that was good for conversions.
Really sad to see Sigmar not doin so hot. I really hope this makes them rethink their process.
Maybe we see the limit of pushing too much towards matched play / tournament play. I feel like AoS turned into a tournament game, and all the previews / gameplay videos they made all went in that direction. I totally see why 3rd players are happy with 4th : most of those who stayed were in that competitive tournament mindset already.
Three years between new editions is way too short if they’re doing a full reset... like the last two... 40k & AoS. A mid-way update... 9.5 if you will, which doesn’t invalidate all the codexes/tomes would be okay. But taking 2.5 years to get all the codexes out and then basically saying... well now you can throw them out isn’t a good approach.
The core book and spearhead contents shouldn't be in the Skaventide Box. Cuts the price in half to 132.50
Really insightful video as always. Only question I have is how WarCry is doing?
It's doing okay. It has a casual base of players that enjoy it's simplicity. The models are incredible, so it always has that going for it.
I imagine it wasn't doing super well which is why they have more recently pivoted into doing AoS factions as opposed to a strictly chaos themed game.
Workshop sales guy phones me and tells me based on their calculations i should order 148 skaventide for my store. I pull out my needle and burst his balloon telling i am pretty sure the 28 i ordered will be just fine but thanks for the call. Sad Panda GW man reads all his talking points from his memo but eventually throws in the towel and staggers off with this tail between his legs . Still have a dozen copies left over after a week.
Now imagine that conversation but 2000 more times... 😮
Insane they wanted you to order that many!
How did that compare to the number of Leviathan boxes they wanted you to order?
148 boxes sounds like a lot of boxes to order for AOS
@@Multra I believe we ordered 125 Leviathan Boxes
Can buy all the Skaventides? Yes, but can you buy any gnawholes?
Fomo on the box set isn't as bad but there is a major issue with getting any of the faction terrain pieces/manifestaions.
I am in for AD mech and Blood Angels. Been playing Dark Mech since before Horus Heresy came out (converted for looks 40k AD Mech). Been playing BA since tail end of 2nd edition. But i really have no desire to play the latest 40k. . .there will be many more editions to play lol
I bet a good chunk of Skaven AOS is actually moving are being put on square bases.
myself included it gives about 800 points towards my 2k list
I was thinking about it but don’t want the stormcast half
Doubtful. TOW is essentially DOA. I don't see it played anywhere.
Funny because where I’m from you could say aos was dead and 4th was the nail in the coffin while
Old world is thriving and also brought some players back into the game store
@@grimd0rk I was referring to multiple game stores in my area, not just a single one. In the New England region, to be specific. I was curious about TOW, but have yet to find any semblance of a player base, with the exception of NY.
All those hardcover books in that box didn't help with the pricing, shipping weight, as well. They need to focus on smaller boxes. As the saying goes, "Keep It Simple Stupid". And I'm sure all the FLGS would appreciate that, heh. Cheers!
Did they mention Old World?
Old what? ;)
No, not this time 😂
Glad to hear kill team is doing well for you guys locally, it is here too. It's an excellent system.
Wierd thing happened here in the uk with the old world dwarf release, they made an endless amount, stores were given unrestricted orders by gw, the biggest stores all sold out or got really low and re-stocked, im guessing they want to print enough until they have got to the next faction release. The brettonia big boxes continue to sell out when online, and the orcs were received pretty well, with their first wav of big boxes broadly selling out at most lgs’s, although the resins and metals are really hard to get hold of!
I see the big boxes in north america have sold out too, seems to be doing okay.
Old World is selling like hot cakes!
Another small note: gws financial report noted that it is selling to both old and new customers and is to be supported for years to come. :-)
I want Tomb Kings for AOS
I don't find KT too crunchy at all, its simple enough. It is a bit annoying to do a roll to hit, and roll to wound. I don't care about lack of granularity, I just want to get on with it but that's me personally, overall I'm happy with the current rules.
I guess "The Old World" does not sell in your store at all?
Sure it does. It's just a matter of scale.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 It came up because you mentioned TOW with exactly no words at all. ;)
I feel like I'm still reeling from the 3.0 release ruining my themed army, and now a 4.0 is out? Its just too soon
The insane inflation all over has strangled consumers' wallets. It's getting harder and harder to LIVE let alone buy a giant box of overpriced plastic. That said, I did split Skaventide with someone and think the box is pretty great, especially if you're into Spearhead.
If I had more spare time I would absolutely buy the box, keep the Stormcast at spearhead level only and work on a skaven army. Or maybe sell the Stormcast half for funding more skaven.
But…. I don’t have that kind of time. I’d rather keep playing the game I have models for and add a little at a time to it over launching into a new game space
So accurate to say Skaventide was a flop? How do you think this affects the future of the game, especially stacked up against the Old World which seems super popular.
These things all come down to scale. A flopping AoS release still moves more units than a successful Old World release.
And a 'flop' really is based on expectations, not overall success.
I think there are some serious concerns about sales of GW's fantasy line, but these concerns have been present in the company literally since the first release of 40k lol
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 yeah…that’s a long time isn’t it?
Not a store but a regular gaming club. Ths time last year the club was 90% 40k, next week we've 14 down for AoS Spearhead, 4 for 40k, 2 for bloodbowl, 2 for TOW and 2 for MESBG. 40k has died a death over here, people arent enthusiastic about it at all, several of our 40k die hards are starting to look outside of GW for the first time, we've seen loads of interest in bolt action and shatterpoint over the past month or so.
Who would buy into the next wave of Stormcast bloat after GW just shelved a whole heap. The Skaven look good but not enough to buy Stormcast as well.
You could easily pawn the stormboys off for around 100 bucks and just keep everything else :)
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I honestly think that I'd just end up holding the bags. They will be going for pennies on Facebook in a few months imo. I think I'll be better off just getting a big Skaven box.
Betcha that dwarf launch did better than skaventide across the board, I’ll see myself out.
Lmao
Not even close, but we can dream I suppose!
I wish GW were willing to experiment with a new flagship faction other than Stormcast. The logic for Stormcast is sound and they've actually done it before. Chaos Warriors were GWs best selling kit way back when and they said, 'Oh we need one for our sci-fi universe' hence Space Marines. So it makes sense for when Fantasy dies and is reborn as AOS to make Space Marines for AOS. But Space Marines didn't have to be pushed this hard they just sold like hot cakes immediately. We're 4 editions in and Stormcast are nowhere near as omnipresent as Space Marines are for 40k. I think changing up with Cities of Sigmar as the Order Poster boys could do wonders. Or if it has to be Stormcast, get rid of the death masks. I've seen so many great Stormcast where if you just give them a traditional helmet they look so much better. Nobody wants their awesome Storm Knights to have as my friend puts it, 'blowjob lips' on their helmet.
I was able to get the core rules, Spearhead, endless spells, and faction packs on the warhammer community downloads page.
Not sure if that was available when you guys recorded this.
The new release of AOS has interest me, and I plan on playing my first game this week.
I was wondering, do you count Warcry as AoS sales at your store ? Is your community interested into it or only as part of building their AoS armies with some Warcry warbands ?
It's such a small amount of sales it wouldn't really impact the numbers much either way. Probably easier to count them as AoS sales, but they are recorded as their own thing.
I have mixed feelings on Agents of Imperium. Love the book and what they’re trying to do. Really sad with the model release that is going along with it.
Question... When you say you “did okay” with the AoS 4th release, what does that mean? Did you mean to say that you sold a lot of boxes? Or, rather, that you did a good job of estimating sales and didn’t get stuck with a pile of product that you couldn’t shift at MSRP? It sort of sounded like the latter.
Skaventide ... I just don't care about either army and I'm not investing 350$ the wrong way. I want to get into AOS. I can spend 350 on the HH box ... That's what I went with.
That HH box is soooo nice
Don’t care for anything sigmarine related.
Also my hope is that for AOS they are folding the Fyreslayers into a newly created Dwarven faction alongside the Kharadrons... (I believe this to be unlikely though)
As a Fyreslayer player who also owns KO I would absolutely despise if they did that and most Fyreslayer and KO players I've talked to would also really dislike that.
@@bishop1860 wouldn't it be fine if they did it like orruk warclans or ogor mawtribes?
Bc thats how i meant it
@@bishop1860 if it meant they would do a regular Dwarven faction in the style of ironbreakers, hammerers and so on then I would be all for it.
In truth I think that the looks of the fyreslayers is kind of ugly haha
Definitely not happening with them cracking down against soups with even Big Waaagh being dead dead.
the launch White Dwarf this month even has a section reinforcing what a disaster the peace talks among the duardin was and “Grungni is a stubborn god though bough to wait centuries”
Which translates to don’t hold your breath.
Likely Fyreslayers are getting updated with Vulkyn warband tier stuff to make them more popular and Kharadron get the Gholemkind as a sub-faction for their better melee options.
The old dwarven aesthetic stays locked to TOW only.
It’s interesting how regional the smaller GW games are. Kill team is 100% dead for me and I own one of the most active hobby stores within like 6 hours. On Sunday we had 90 people in the building and usually every week I have over a dozen miniature games played.
0 Kill team tho
That's crazy! But yea small skirmish games are super dependant on local hobby champions. They are usually too small for a store to focus much on them so they need really passionate locals to carry the torch for the game.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 We had that for awhile for Kill Team but they moved onto other games.
I agree tho
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 It is the opposite in our store. All the small GW's games are doing quite well, 40k has only a little bunch of players, AoS none... Most of our customers cannot buy an army, while Kill Team, Underworld, Bloodbowl are more appealing to them; also other non GW ruleset are rising... But i'm from Italy, so it could differ from USA a lot...
I absolutely hate 10th edition but I’m obviously in the minority. I’m still having a blast as a Dark Angels fan just building and painting the awesome new models.
I’m mostly enjoying 10th, but I’m setting aside my Thousand Sons who I love to play some loyalist marines because I am not happy with how the psychic angle is being handled. Just too hard to play them the way I want to (mixed arms with vehicle support not just infantry spam) and their shooting is not very effective for the points outside of a Death Star style unit you place all the buffs on
Everything is just too expensive. I don't know how a new person can convince themselves to start the hobby. It seems wasteful now
Probably price memory on your part?
For new people entering, you need to ask what they are comparing it to. Expensive is a value judgment, usually compared to something else.
I mean, 100 bucks ain't what it used to be, that's for sure.
@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 I sure you're right to some degree. However, as economies keep going downhill and any economist worth his degree , is saying the worst is yet to come. 50, 100 200+ dollars for a box of plastic or I dunno buy food or pay rent? If things get as bad as some are saying, who's going to have time to play a game like these anyways. You think I'm doomsayer? Let's just wait and see. I will ask you a question I asked you once before. Just how much is a box of plastic toy soldiers actually worth, when the packaging is worth more than the contents . Yeah ,yeah a business has to make a profit but if you ethically run your business then you should have now troubles making a profit.
Circle is 2"
Do you guys think skaventide coming out less than a month from Gencon has affected the sales as that box is a big price tag to attach with the cost of the con to attend and will there be an uptick in sales mid to end August? The new corvus Belli fantasy game releases next week as well could play a role with tightened wallets for the majority of multi game system players around as that has impacted my purchasing decisions lately.
"we have 1 left" "it was a flop" what?
As far as AoS goes... I just find the setting uninspiring. You have “The Realm of Beasts” and call it Ghur? Sorry, I’m not 8 years old anymore. And the Stormcasts are just too obviously Space Marines. It really feels like a lazy approach. That said... of course it’s my subjective opinion. Just not my style of fantasy.
Ghur was the name of the winds of Beast magic since Warhammer fantasy started. -_-
Warhammer, in general, has always been extremely cheesy. That being said, you are right about AoS being soulless.
AoS is clearly a "corporate safe" fantasy 40k. It's purpose built to be loose so GW to turn on a dime and spit out whatever model concept they think will safely net them the most money. I mean, look at the stormcast as the definitive example - there are three (maybe four) different versions of the baseline stormcast, and well over 100 models in their entire range, despite only being around for about a decade.
My lgs still has 2 leviathan boxes
Those are getting harder to come by but still out there for sure
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 yeah totally not trying to contradict, just interesting to get reports of what people are seeing. I'm in northwest usa
The core rules are good, the balance of points is just terrible.
There is a free pdf with endless spells
Referring to boxes of tiny plastic army men as "heavy bags" is the most cringe-inducing thing I've heard all week.
Happy to be of service!
“Why haven’t they released chaos dwarves and Malerion aelves yet? What are they thinking?!”
Sensible release pacing? We just got a ton of faction refreshes from Flesh-Eaters to Ironjawz and now have Stormcast & Skaven with likely 6 releases each in the future(like Tornus & the horror)
Rumors are CoS are getting a huge Cogfort next with probably new city-duardin to replace the old dwarves, chaos duardin next year to go with the Realm of Fire narrative, more hinted refreshes with Ogors, Fyreslayers & Deepkin, possibly new Destruction stuff and the Gholemkind race they’ve also been teasing along with Kurnothi aelves/Wildkin humans lead by Thorian.
And then before you know it it’s AoS5 refreshed Stormcast vs new Death while Malerion and Tyrion get their big releases to pick up the Broken Realms narrative they’re parlaying over lost spirits in the underworlds and then probably something else like the Silent People and so on of all the new stuff they keep pushing out.
AoS has A LOT coming right now and in the future.
Also on UnderWorlds they already trademarked a name called “Mosscairn” which is likely the next season in the Realm of Life.(second half of where AoS4 is focused on besides the Realm of Fire)
Warhammer Underworld is dead?!?
No, they had a release earlier this year. It’s not dead. It may just not sell in their area.
In our area, it’s a small spot on the game shelf but a few of us have fun with it as a self contained product
Nah, 3 months ago GE trademarked the term “MossCairn” which is a dead ringer for a new season name.
It’s got a strong community, GW update the boxes and warband rotations and the last Warhammer Worlds tournament pulled in 96 players from across Europe.
It’s small but stable.
Anything but skaven. Now people aren't fond of SCE here, but rat people, that is culturaly a no go here. A faction with litteral Stalin, forced in to AoS, reborn would do better. Not a world wide thing, but skaven here , not going to generate sales. I know the fly guys are sought after by custodes players.
The reason no one is complaining about 40k is because no one is playing it.
It’s such a shit game.
Objectively not true but I understand your sentiment.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 my group and I came back for 10th after abandoning 9th for the past couple years.
Excited to finally be done with 9th.
What an absolute shit show. The game is worse than ever. We played about 10 games total between all of us and switched to OnePageRules.
Hard to believe how terrible a game system they managed to make.
Im part of a discord with free access to all of GWs rules and codex. I don’t even bother pirating any of it, it’s so bad.
Tells you how bad the game has to be when people won’t even steal it.
I'm still confused as to why people play AoS. I mean from a marketing/psychological point of view. What is the emotional draw? It is a garbage pizza of random fantasy stuff mostly taken from a Warhammer junk pile, and it was basically game forward, the game came first and then they filled in the story and lore. There's just no realistic reason large numbers of people would be attached to that. I'm not seeing much in terms of it being a great game or an extremely accessible game, it as a game is split into endless churning rulebooks, and doesn't seem to have any particular greatness in its design.
I'm just left with it having appeal to people who like a frontrunner, like GW, and it's GW's new thing. It's not the thing everybody else does, it's not the old thing grognards did, this is the hip new game. But it's not new anymore, it doesn't seem very hip either. It doesn't even have haters, people got over it. Could it be the game is losing its emotional draw, that the hype is gone, the character that it had in the early years is gone, it's an established product now that just has to stand on its own two feet. And on its own two feet, it's pretty mediocre. I wonder if that's it. It may still have a decent sized fanbase, because it's a GW game, but it's going backwards, and it's not at the level GW expects of its top games.
I can only speak for myself, I love the models.
It’s a complete nothing burger, don’t get me wrong I really like the models and I used them for fantasy but age of sigmar fantasy just isn’t it, it’s too over the top and doesn’t make any logical sense half the time
It was the attempt to make fantasy into a 40K style game. Them trying to make Stormcast the Space Marines of fantasy is a problem that verges on insanity.
I dont play, but I do collect the models and don't mind the lore for my main army, FEC.
@@Jarlballin123don’t complain, my night goblins, warriors of chaos, and Lizardmen have never looked so good! With the new base sizes of old world there’s no reason not to collect gorgeous new fantasy armies!
ah ok 40k stans who see aos as a threat even though its the same company.
I bought in and feel like it was a good value, but it was too expensive and that had to deter a lot of people.
I appreciate the perspective of how GW is doing in your store, but where is the sales data discussing how much product has moved? Without that information what you have to say is just conjecture. I still appreciate and believe in your perspective, but you need data to back up how it feels like a game is doing.
There’s not really a concrete answer anyone can give besides GW themselves. These guys can do good sales data around them but it’s still only fragments of the bigger picture.
That’s why it’s really better to wait for the financial reports. That’s how Dominion went from “oh that flopped nobody bought it” to GW corrected everyone “it was their best selling fantasy product to date”.
@@ce4879but they missed out the part where they sold all the dominion stock after its failed launch to lgs’s, liquidators and amazon 😂 oopsie poopsie
@@ce4879my friends store still has like 12 dominion boxes. They did great selling it to vendors sure. Doesn’t mean the games doing that great.
The stores have learned their lesson now though.
@@ce4879forgetting to add in: gw sold all their stock to lgs’s with fomo after gw themselves failed to sell dominion direct to customers, then sold the remaining stock to amazon and other stock liquidators 😂 - funny that.