The Pact Broken in Taking Your Own Life
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Ep. 376
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“The way you turn tragedy into hell is becoming resentful and bitter.”
No matter what happens=No matter the facts at hand, you are called upon never to lose faith in the essential goodness of being, to conduct yourself as if the cosmos is well structured, no matter the evidence been presented to you within the confines of your life (The practice of gratitude). Thank you, Jordan. You are a blessing. You truly are an instrument in GODs hands...I needed this video today...Abisoye from Nigeria.
😂😂😂 that's cowardice of the highest order.
Abisoy
@@youtubehatesfreespeech2555dogg you're weird. That's a horrible prison your mind is in😢😢
Abisoye. You took all the words out of my mind before they hit a text. Yours, was a text read at the right time. Blessings.
From Treasure Island, FL.
How kind, Mr T. Who hurt you.
I think the Brazilian novelist Clarice Lispector (who was depressed for much of her life, and died of cancer), called it "the terrible duty to stay until the end."
Job refused to agree with his supposed friends that this calamity had come to him because of some hidden sin. His friends were wrong. They argued from a religious perspective and Job argued from the perspective of faith, true faith in God. The discourse is incredibly enlightening
Chapter 38
God chastises those He loves...
@@joecesarano4301 yep. That’s the argument Job’s friends made. But in the end they were proven to be in error and Job sacrificed for their sake. In this story context is extremely important. And easy to lose.
@@joecesarano4301 So does every narcissist.
One thing that i think Jordan is missing: Satan's attack on Job was NOT about Job. It was about God. Satan's argument is God is not worth serving if He doesn't bless His people.
as someone who attempted many times before the age of 25, it's hard to communicate the tunnel vision in a way that makes sense to those who haven't been there. i'm 28 now, and i can see the hardships for the lessons they were. the only (unsolicited) advice I can give is that you need to recognize that there is more to everything than yourself! zoom out. suddenly, being a speck on a rock doesn't feel nearly as heavy.
Will keep that in mind
Well put. I have thought a lot about why some people can handle the common hardships, and disappointments of life and others can't. I've come to the conclusion that some people think they are the grand play of life and if their life is miserable at some point the play itself sucks and should just be stopped.
But we should actually try and be just a spectator in the stands watching the play, and watching ourselves as separate actors.
You are so right. Suicidal thoughts are not born from any 'rational' thought process. It's almost like a mind virus. It's a feeling that permeates every second of your life and your brain just makes up a 'rational' explanation as to why this is a good idea. Its so hard to explain...
I’m really glad you’re still here, and that you seem to have found an anchor. My sister took her own life 15 years ago and the devastation for those left behind (plus I was the last one to see her, so there’s the guilt too) is impossible to articulate. No matter what a person is going through, no matter how bad it gets, I can say one thing for certain-the world is never better off without you, and neither are the ppl who love you. Just one more day, you can always do it tomorrow, but hang on for another day. If it takes doing that for years, so be it so long as you (the general “you”) finds something to cling to.
@@johnsmithers8913 I think you're being very simplistic about by calling it the " the common hardships, and disappointments of life". For people who get to that extreme point in their life the causes are often found in very troubled childhoods and lack of support. It's not just that you don't like that you have to work to afford life, for example, it's a lot more fundamental to the way they perceive life and the world and is often based on deep psychological scars. You're basically making it sound like they're just "weak" which I find pretty awful.
We in the West are blessed beyond measure by these two great men…we will make sure their contributions are recorded for posterity 🙏
Seriously
Yes
JP quick correction - Job's wife DIDNT die. After Job lost everything, including his health, his worth, and all his children, only his wife remained. She then rejected him and told him to turn from God.
One might imagine this is considerably worse than if she had died.
Listen to “Let The Slave” by Van Morrison 🙏
hahahahahahHHHahahaj 😂😂😂😂😂 SHIIII 🔥🔥🔥 BRUH
@@starofsiam1thank you 🙏
@@JordanFreshour welcome…I’m so pleased it reached good ears and a good heart 🙏
Yes. This is what I cannot overcome. Betrayal. I, too, lost everything, and then I was betrayed. My ex-husband abandoned me much like in the Jobs story. I attempted suicide but failed and was locked up for a long time in the hospital (2 years. No relatives. Alone. Only really sick people around, closed ward, but I didn't want to get up and do anything anyway). Then I got out and married a different man, but not out of love. I married only because I tried everything else to get better and nothing worked, and that's why the attempt, and I had a good psychiatrist who really cared, and he said "you haven't tried remarrying", so I did. I married 10 months ago. I couldn't believe it at first, I had terrible nightmares, I was beating up my new husband in my sleep (I didn't know they s before he told me, that I actually act out my horror dreams), but now nightmares got a little less frequent and a little more bearable. My health did improve somewhat. I am still nowhere near out of the darkness, but it did get a little better.
But! I cannot overcome the betrayal of my ex. It's like he shattered something inside of me, he made me feel that there is no goodness in this world or in people. I can't trust anyone anymore. Because if that sort of betrayal were to happen again, I would simply... I can't imagine what I would do. I might just lose my mind and go on a murder spree or something. It is just too painful.
I tried searching for JP advice on betrayal but he has been blessed with life where nobody has ever really betrayed him, I mean serious betrayal, like in Job story. So he kinda can't give the advice? I don't know the reason but nothing I listen to seems to help.
Please tell me what to watch or read. I am giving up. And I already told my new husband that I will commit suicide. He's older than me (20 years difference and I am not young), so he said "okay, but I want to go with you". And that he would prefer if I killed him in his sleep. I thought about it and decided that I can't kill him because I can see that he is still enjoying life, I can't take it away even if he says he wants me to.
But I do think that there is nothing left here for me. No future. Just more pain. Eternal inability to believe in something good. Yes, I know what you think, "just because your husband betrayed you, doesn't mean everyone will", but I don't believe it. I can't believe it.
Gratitude is perhaps the most underrated value today because of how easy life has become. People are constantly chasing the next big thing to the point where they no longer appreciate what they already have. It's one of the pitfalls of overabundance that doesn't really plague the developing world where each day is a routine struggle for survival.
Exactly. Which is correlation by the fact the highest suicide rate are present in developed countries as opposed to poorer ones. And for some people that will be confusing. When you live too comfortable for too long, in laymen terms, you get bored of life. Humans are made to move forward, not stagnate.
Increasingly feels like being grateful is actually frowned upon at a subconscious level by many in the west. "why are you happy, your broke, go become a millionaire it will make you grateful" Kind of thing.
Yes. This overabundance and overall lack of true need to survive is also one of the catalysts for the flourishing of left ideologies.
Our general safety from physical harm led many to seek safety from emotional harm, thus coming up with microagressions, safe spaces, etc.
The search for personal value and meaning led to some to reclaim value based on personal characteristics and even invest some, thus we have intersectionality, a multitude of genders, pronouns, sexual preferences, etc.
So true. My kids' unhappiness stems from their ingratitude.
What now? 3rd sentence doesn't make any sense.
When these two have a talk, it's fun because they respect each other at a level where each knows that no matter how long the other rattles on, he will get a chance to exchange and suggest. Plus, the other will take what he says under consideration. I think this is at the heart of why so many people like these guys. They are brutes, but they keep themselves in check. You get the sense that they would listen seriously to you.
Spot on!!
Ahahah totally bro YEAH! COOL COOOL YEHA
Brutes?
@@OneMan-wl1wj Yes.
@chipcook5346 Talking like gentleman, behaving like gentleman..
Not seeing it..care to elaborate?
Suffering and learning from it; is growth and how life works...
...I've come to understand.
Suffering without learning from it; is a waste.
Every Day of life is a gift...
...even the worst of days.
Suffering+learning+humility=wisdom
suffering and learning all goes down in the soil in the end.
Not if you have brain damage and suffering is actually killing you faster...
Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward.
Oscar Wilde
@@ftffighter No one has a guaranteed wake up. Spend what time you have wisely.
There is real peace of mind, keep searching until you cannot.
Two of the most fantastic brains of our times!!
I hope that remark was intended ironically? Peterson and Murray are both ideological supporters of massacre in Gaza.
Yep, great conversation!
Hardly. Everything they said here they'd said before. What they said might be new to you, but it's not new information.
They both support a genocide. Be quiet
Oh to look& listen to two of the most beautiful intelligent men on the planet is a total joy ❤️🙏
What I like about the story of Job, is that even though he lost everything, he stayed faithful and God restored him. What I like about his relationship with God is. Even though Job and his friends blamed God, when God didn't do it, God was still their for him. Job blamed God out of ignorance. Even though we sometimes may get into a place of no hope, if we weather the storm and keep trusting him. HE will bring us out, there is Hope!
Do you think it was horrible of God to let Lucifer do that to Job? Why would god even need to prove anything to an angel? The story itself is amazing. But if it’s true, God is super evil. There was no need for that. But again, the story itself is priceless.
Gosh, I listened to this the other day… it hit so hard. Still in year one of grief and all I can say is to anyone struggling. We love you and we need you ❤ please stay with us
It is a great parable in the sense that some people have lost everything and they do suffer but they have not lost their faith in their own value.Sometimes creative people find the ability to respect themselves even if their closest friends want to destroy them and there is nothing left to trust in their world
Thank you for this reminder, Jordan and Douglas. Gratitude is paramount when it comes to facing any challenge.
Thank you so much for your deep work and wisdom, Mr. Peterson.
Resentment is anger + learned helplessness. The latter is the actual problem. Righteous anger can give people the drive they need to try and change things, where gratitude would lead to complacency.
Anger is appropriate if someone did you wrong. If you are sure enough about what happened, about your morals and on how to rectify the situation, controlled anger can lead to change for the better. Anger is a form of righteous energy. But if you cannot pin point what happened or how to evaluate it, you cannot have an appropriate reaction because you do not see clearly.
Gratitude doesnt lead to complacency.
@@hanswoast7How can you see more clearly?
@@MegaMerdeux Call it resignation, then. A false sense of having to accept circumstances that one should try to change, rather than justify by treating them as inevitable.
I quote rage against the machine: "anger is a gift" th-cam.com/video/H_vQt_v8Jmw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=V4cRa0GwEUYoH4qd&t=103
So I suffered a childhood from birth that nobody should suffer. I am still to figure out what the driver is that stopped me from taking my life from the age of 14 until now (mid 40’s). My therapist said she can’t believe I’m still here and thinks it’s sheer will that I am. Gratitude has helped at times but I regress into despair. As i can best formulate it, it’s due to needing to dip back into it to learn more about it to overcome it. STOP citing religion and faith as the answer, it makes it worse because it’s not the answer I need to overcome this and get back to the light but gaslights me because I can’t due to where I am at. If you want to help, don’t tell me what you think I need to do, be willing to listen and have a conversation about darkness you will never truly understand until u live it. THESE conversations help me to analyse and sometimes see it from a different perspective, giving me the keys to the doors I am struggling with…
Best wishes as you continue to emerge from the darkness☀️
Well said. Courage is a far, far greater virtue than faith. Most of the time faith isn’t even a virtue. It’s often just a desire for psychological comfort or a way to avoid critical thinking. Courage however, is the understanding that things might turn out terrible no matter what you do, and God or no God, you will face suffering directly and stick by your principles.
You could argue that you have faith in your principles, but that’s not really the case. I’m not a thief because I have have faith in the principle of not stealing. I’m not a thief because I can see there is greater value in not being a thief, and because I hate when people steal from me and I have no wish to take what isn’t mine or to feel guilty. None of that is faith, it’s understanding.
@@peripheralparadox4218 Agreed. People use their faith to remain in denial and fear and get confused about the 4 basic categories of emotional, mental, physical and spiritual. You can pray to have courage, or practice gratitude, but that doesn’t help integrate ur shadow. Just like the woke left and criminals. They both suffered malevolence and are projecting it outwards through anger. Anger is an addictive, irrational, adrenaline fuelled reprieve as you get control thru respect and fear that u have never had before. What they need is compassion to help integrate their shadow to stop the intergenerational trauma that they most likely suffered under and to stop the cycle. You gotta go towards it, not away from it
@@peripheralparadox4218 Agreed, people use it for denial and to avoid fear. Most don’t understand the 4 basic areas of life emotional, mental, physical and spiritual. You can pray for courage or to find an answer but you can’t be virtuous because u have faith, virtues are behaviours u exhibit not ur belief in a higher power. I actually like the term karma better as it means “action”, implying that there are reactions or consequences. It feels to me like virtue signalling when someone says “I’ll pray for you”, like they are wiping their hands of you and leaving u to god to deal with…
@@eileen8433 thank you, next time I think I’ll pick the light to dark to light journey not the dark to light one 😂
Nothing poisons the heart faster than failure. Not just personal, but societal. Social media can show us a never ending story of misery if we choose. Energy flows where our attention goes...so... We must continue to reach for the light, even when surrounded by a perceived all-encompassing darkness.
So… if a person feels like they’ve failed not just on a personal level, but on a societal level too then the solution is to have faith that things will get better?
Pride (self love) and a turning away from God poisons the soul which in turn poisons the heart, the mind and eventually the body.
Read “The Lives of the Saints”, you’ll see those who had nothing and suffered the most willingly for the love of God, while being world-wise poor possessed He who holds and gives all things good. Pax
@@HenryBenedictUSA Not entirely. Some say faith is believing something that cannot be proven, but often when followed leads to a knowing of a higher truth. The questions would be : What master does that person serve? ...and : What have they done to seek a higher understanding physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually?
@@SammytheStampede There is truth in this. Sadly many turn away from their own salvation because of the word "God" and how that word itself has become poisoned . I often talk to others about the "Oversoul" or a "Higher Power" than ones' self. The "Cosmos" etc. It's the pretend Christians that scare away most. Preachy people with very little knowledge and even less wisdom. Not to say you are one of these.
The first weak link we saddle ourselves with is; Not putting away childish things...
...specifically, the injunctions/baggage we collect in early childhood.
Most have no idea that they can indeed decide how they want to feel or maybe better said; how they will act on what they feel.
The key for me was learning what I feel and then separating it from my thinking.
Not to say don't feel because that's impossible but, keep your feeling time segregated from your thinking time.
The feeling state of being often skews the thinking, is why.
We are three part beings, mind, body and spirit.
Each requires nourishment, in equal portions.
Neglect one or two and all three will suffer.
We are so loved, even in the worst of times.
I just can't reconcile the fact that I'm supposed to not only endure suffering and pain, but seek it out and learn to enjoy it. Not to mention this advice comes from a guy who makes over $10 million a year.
You can give a bitter person the world, and tomorrow they will still be a bitter person, and we have clear evidence of individuals who have found cause for joy even in the worst of situations amidst horrendous suffering.
Thank you for this conversation!
Thank you. A pleasure gentlemen.
God (and our deepest nature) instructs us, "In all things, give thanks". This may be the ultimate test of character, but is very good advice and a sure guide to experiencing the point where the divine expresses itself in human being.
Be like the Bison | Walk through the storms - Jonna Jinton 💖
You become what you focus on. You have the choice between life and death. Focus on blessings. Accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative.
We become what we behold. Yes. Say to the evil one who tempts you to rail against the only true lover of your soul: "Get thee behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” Matthew 6:23, NIV.
Banish the Evil One; send him packing. Believers in Christ have the power to silence the whispers and temptations of the Devil. Know this: that it is not, it cannot ever be from God that we are tempted to reject Him, to disown Him, to doubt Him.
For God tempts no man.
"No temptation has taken you but that which is common to man; but God is faithful who will not permit you to be tempted beyond that which you can bear, but will with the temptation provide a way of escape that you may be able to stand up under it." 1 Corinthians 10:13.
Job concluded by saying: "Though He slay me, yet will I trust him."
Easy for you to say. I've focused on seagulls for the better part of a decade and still bear no resemblance.
@@timhsvwalkinsha If you focus on all that's wrong with the world you become cynical, if you focus on what you lack you become jealous. If you focus on what you have you become grateful.
Best crossed legged tan pants conversation I've seen in a good minute.
Wth 😂😂😂
@OneMan-wl1wj well look at them lol both tan pants and cross legged the whole time 🤣
Fckn classic ! 😂 Thanks for the laugh.
Great vid my friends, God Bless everyone on earth. Cheers from 2 Canadians living in Mexico. 🙏🏽💖
The conscious experience of pain is terrible and still an amazing gift.
Can u explain how it’s a gift?
@@justmadeit2 oftentimes pain points to something you can influence. pain is a feedback that says "this does not work, try something else". it helps you adapt and grow, if you accepts its existence and message. this might lead you to change something external, maybe fix the roof. or to something internal like finally ending your self sabotaging behavior.
adaptation, growth, learning - those are all feedback loops where you cultivate and improve how you see yourself and the world, how you act in it and thus what kind of social and material surroundings you have. this feedback loop depends on proper and truthful feedback and humility
@@hanswoast7 So the pain from experiencing horrific s*xual ass*ult since I was a toddler, how is that there for me to influence, learn and grow?
Monsters within 500 miles seem to know where I’m located and want to have a taste - I was last s*xually ass*ulted at a bus stop and groped in a store line up - other than realizing I’m here to serve as punching bag, s*x toy and battery/energy resource for monsters and to stop leaving the house, how is this happening for me to ‘learn’ and ‘grow?’
@@justmadeit2 Consciousness is such an incredible and (possibly) rare phenomenon, that I choose conscious pain over nothing all.
@@hanswoast7 I’m struggling with terrible insomnia and severe depression, it’s painful mentally, I don’t know how to get out of it. Especially the sleep issues and I’ve tried lots of things
Definitely needed to hear this…..be reminded
I am thinking Free Will is, inspite of the outward physical condition, your choice, your free will, of attitude toward life and its suffering is the battle and the reward.
So strange, this particular discussion kept popping up in my head, but couldnt remember who it was or when it took place…what a pleasant surprise ❤
Great discussion!
Humanity overcomes with hope that we can overcome.
(And being with people who believe that)
As an atheist, the requirement for 'faith' as Peterson defines it is something I had already thought about myself and I still find it one of the most difficult things to make sense of.
I reject belief with a lack of evidence in every aspect of my knowledge, but in action and in life we have to have courage to imagine new and better situations that we simply don't have much evidence that we are capable of. I need consistent reminders of this concept or I tend to flow back into negative thoughts of the world and myself.
I don't believe in god, but faith, in some sense, in human relationships, the world, in ourselves, is vitally important for any semblance of a tolerable life.
2 of my favourite human beings ❤
I wasn't aware that you admire people who support genocides.
i was a suicidal child, with many attempts, but little imagination. but when i had children it was no longer an option, though the depression was still there, i became a christian about a year and a half after my first child and things got a bit better, slowly better. about a year ago, though i was pulled up by the love each other as you love yourselves and i realized i sniped at myself at every given opportunity, since then i have had an abundance of joy, even though the depression came from a traumatic childhood.
Doctor Peterson, you are a brilliant man whose videos have helped me immensely over the past 5 or 6 years as I have wrestled with and through the heart-break of my divorce and the dissolution of the family I had. However, I can tell you that you will NEVER answer the conundrum you present here with an intellectual understanding. Rather, you must recognize that there is a thing within you that is ineffable and without bounds, and that thing is love. The love you feel for your daughter is a pure thing that is part of your essence, and it is the realization that one is part of an infinitely greater life and love that is the balance to all the tragedy of life. THAT is faith.
When you are in depression your thoughts lie to you and decieve you. Youll make it out eventually, nothing is permanent. Learn to question your thoughts and ideas, realize that your idea of who "you" are are not really "you", only an ilusion of the mind built for survival. Just endure one more day at the time.
brilliant discussion
Perception of one's quality of life, is dependent on one's value of material things. Unhappiness is connected and corelates with one's level of investment in the material world.
That's the truth.
You certainly can't take it with you and when you have lost everything things become meaniless and what's truth and right becomes more prevalent. Only people matter and how we treat one an another.
The Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!
I had this moment a month ago. I lost my job and we lost our new home where we would have had freedom. I shook my fist at the sky and renounced my Christianity. I realized I never lost faith in God, but in men who call themselves Christians. Those are 2 very different things. We are doing well despite our shortcomings.
Don't lose faith in God.
I'm holding you in my thoughts and prayers. May you find the strength and faith you need to navigate this challenge. Though the path may be difficult, trust that God's blessings are with you. Though we may not fully comprehend the purpose behind this suffering, I believe that it will lead to new opportunities and greater blessings than before.
It's all about how you interpret it. I prefer to believe God is not a being but an idea or a feeling, you have no one to curse or blame but yourself if you decide to feel beaten down by life. It is already within you to trancend your suffering you just have to be willing. Which is what I think the Bible likes to call "faith"
God is not an idea and what you describe as "faith" is a contradiction of the first statement. The word of God teaches us not to place our faith in someone else and particulary yourself but in Him. The way you handle it seems to me that it is merely a personal decision not to concern yourself with whatever may be causing your depression or feeling blue.
My wife walked out on me when I was still on chemo - no warning, discussion or explanation. I really loved her and unlike previous relationships my love for her grew over time. Must admit I still love and miss her. I was angry at God for letting this happen and wondered why He could not have prevented it. Took me 7 years, in which time I did not date or have female friends and spend my time doing sport, training, sleeping most of the weekend, before I realised people are individuals, make there own decisions, can't force them to love you, etc. My anger went away and things returned to the previous normal. In 2011, with a well paying job and benefits, I was retrenched and unemployed for two years. Middle last year I was retrenched again - so here I am, in my sixties, no pension and a step daughter who refuses to speak to me. Get the occassional anxiety attack, my wife is employed and helps with my state of mind, am depressed but still have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. I'm not angry at God, mixed bag of emotions for sure. Have no idea what to do, where to go - in a sense I feel lost big time but two things I do now - like Richard says - do not forgo of your faith in God or place your trust in man.
@@ToastSoon4808 god is whatever anyone wants it to be. That's how religion works bud
Thank you.
Respect to this man, I have watched his videos for years, and I don't have to lie about my experiences, but I have starred into the abyss and found out alot of missing pieces 🧩 of the puzzle of my life due to him
thank you 💯
The part that starts at about 9 minutes is very similar to what Rabbi Dessler says in his book "Strive for Truth." He uses an example of a poor, middle class, and rich person, and describes the problems that each has independent of their material wealth.
You have granted me life and favor, And Your care has preserved my spirit.
Job 10:12
Faith in the goodness of being ❤
Axiums are deep, shift many things simultaneously verses shadow ones that are fleeting.
They bring us back into a feeling that is more secure which allows us to feel the goodness of being that matters, rather than just remembering that it matters.
I would love to invite you to Revival Today, PA. Pastor Jonathan and Pastor Adalis. Please come from from Canada and we welcome you to Sunday Service ♥️
Wow! This was a treat! TY both!
So is Ur mum
After going through suicidal ideation a couple of years ago I can say this is very interesting, and I’m glad I suffered because it’s made me a wiser man, and I have helped people overcome it as well
This is good stuff Mr. Peterson. Thank you.
Death by the state is Evil , and the the gate is narrow, God is watching. Great talk.
Simply ❤ the narrative between these two highly wise men
The best book on suicide, and why you should not do it, is Who Killed Stephen Ward. It goes through the situation Dr Stephen Ward found himself in after the Profumo scandal in the 60's; but its also about the nature of suicide and how people find themselves in such a terrible situation.
I once related to David. I now fight against the resentment of my life at 50. My mother died in 2020 my father 6 weeks ago ... my sister od'd 2 days ago .... my first felony was at 8 years old .. hit a tree when i was 19 at 100mph been t6 paraplegic ever since .. 2 degree's many successful business... was homless and strug out on the streets for 2 years .. Pulled my self out of that ... to watch every one I love die ... no wife .. no children biggest regret .. I,ive alone spend mos my time alone ..... how do i not become a monster is all i think about
It’s because you’re a good man…
@@welshhibby .... wow .. and Ditto .... thanks
Ditto
Wat?
You have a story to tell! Stay strong, I’m moved by your honesty!
The art of loving by Erich Fromm helped me in better understanding with this subject of losing
I used to strongly dislike the story about Job. Now its one of my favourite stories in the Bible. Some Harvard professor said recently: the road to happiness is: faith, family, friends, and word that help others. I have thought a lot about that since I heard it.
Yes, in the end faith is deciding to believe even when you can't see!
"blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Faith will lead you down the path you didn't choose...
When you think you can't loose anything more and say, at least I have xyz... that as well will be taken... and one day you will leave this world as naked as you came... only God remains with you...
We come in with nothing.
We go out with nothing.
All we take are our experiences.
🕯️
@@starofsiam1 Wrong. You do not even take your experiences.
@@RollYOUrD1ce you know that for sure do you🤣…and how do I know you aren’t a bot?🤣
@@RollYOUrD1cethe investigations into reincarnation show that at minimum, our memories somehow exist after death and can be viewed by people living in the future that had no connection to the previous person. We don't know the mechanism by which this happens
I use to say I'm an atheist back in university. I was doing psychology in undergrad now I'm currently reading Job. Love from Jamaica my good sir. I am also reading crime and punishment. Dr. Peterson take care God bless you.
As a suicide survivor this is brilliant. "Life must be lived forward, but it can only be understood backwards", nothing happens in God's world by mistake!
"Man must endure his going hence, even as his coming hither."
But whence is his whither ?
@@LooseTheremin Moments fleeting.
Yeah, ive been in the shit real deep, and i always knew it could be worse, far worse, and i have been thankful it wasnt. Glass half full attitude gets you through the shit.
An idea on depth: I'm a Sports Injury Rehabilitator. In my work, superficial means close to the skin, and deep means closer to the centre of the body. If I look at those things metaphorically, close to the skin can represent the ego, or living for one's own hedonistic desires. Whereas the thing that lies close to the centre of the body is one's heart, or (if you're religious) the soul, or something like that. A deep idea speaks to the heart and soul. It may be nonsense, but it's just a thought that appeared in my head, and then another thought told me to write it in the comments.
Nice, your comment is a valuable contribution
Godliness with contentment is great gain!
Biblical truths that never fail. You reap what you sow. God is timeless, and his timing is always perfect. People will hate you for loving and serving Him. And anything man touches he will corrupt.
According to Aggadic literature: Job, Yithro, and Balaam were advisors to Pharoah. When Pharoah decreed to kill Hebrew babies: Yithro ran away, Balaam agreed to it, and Job remained silent. Job is the example of what happens when good people see evil and refuse to speak up. You cannot ignore evil in your midst because it comes back to you manifold.
The problem with reason is that it is never in isolation. We must always first have premises. Faith is trust, and we have faith in the premises off which we reason. Values inform and shape premises, which is why we put our faith in them: we trust what we value. While values can be shaped by experience, I suspect they are more intrinsic.
Culture is a showcase of which values have endurance and productive utility. But culture is a thing that the next generation must willingly adopt and then shape for their time and place. A symbiosis of conformity: we must conform to culture but in a sense culture must conform to us. A grounding off which to explore. The protestant reformation captured this idea in the dictum 'ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda' that is 'the church reformed, always reforming'.
Now the main thing the reformers back then saw was the need for the human heart to be transformed by the reformed church. Doctrine (the content of the faith which is held by faith), derived from a sound hermeneutic of the Bible, is that grounding off which we are transformed and guarded as we explore.
May Awa ang Diyos. Psalms 144:9. Aasa sa Awa mo Ama. Psalms 145:7.
Gotta love Douglas Murray's smirk💀
There is something to be said about how some people are rather happy and grateful and others bitter and hateful AND then all those degrees in-between: Here some of my real life people
- One of the greatest entertainers. Hates God, despises church or any mention or reminder of God and don't bring up how his older brother died very young. You'll be shocked at the scorn and deep resentment.
- Another great entertainer who might share that his older brother (who he swears was far more talented than him) but died very young. He has it in his mind that God called him to carry out great skills and does it in a kind of mission of his older brother and sure God has blessed them.
or
We just knew Barry from high school, to working at a gas station to getting a car less than 5 years old to ... i mean it never mattered what he was doing in some social or financial or what. He is simply "hey, any day I get out of bed and im still alive is a good day!". Don't ask me. He's always been that way. He's fine thanks. Hey these cheezies are good! welp, gotta long shift at the gas station tomorrow and its off to a sweet 2 day fishing weekend so life is goooood.
Why is he like that?
For a stretch of life we lived in what could have been called the most perfect suburban neighborhood on earth with every possible comfort, every social program, there was no crime sprees, nothing but a nearly ideal life. A beautiful park with football pitches and a community organized girl's football league. There was no such thing as anyone ever watching their games unless you wanted vicious glares, nearly violent stand-offs and then the most disturbed, men-hating, sneering, mentally stressed, utterly contemptuous teenage women (and their lady coaches). Years later half that team became street junkies, live in mental wards, deranged 'cat ladies', series of weird dysfunctional marriages/boyfriends.
Why would the be like that?
This is nearly the closest human civilization has come to a really perfect little city with every and any good thing.
How would 24 teenage girls, all pretty healthy, supplied with shoes and all the world to enjoy be that way?
The strangest but more serious:
- Her husband got cancer and at 37 thats a bit of a shocker. They could not praise thank and just everything for every well-wish on facebook to the nurse on a particular shift to the hotel staff and let me say this IMO: that guy was nearly criminally under-successful. If ANYONE deserved promotions, raises, notoriety, in a career it was him and he was shockingly unrewarded. people with half his talents and work effort are today walking around like big a-holes telling you how life works and they shouldn't be,
however, he spends half the day in hospital 'chemo' etc writing me jokes and laughing at kooky things we did or thought of.
vs
I happened to go with a couple from a smaller town to a big city where the husband needed serious level cancer treatments. I have never met two people more full of utter sneering contempt, just utterly full of resentment as these two. People are actually pretty good, every flight staff, every passenger, there and back, moved, offered help, held doors, made space for the man in the wheelchair. every human there and back acted as 'helpers' like caretakers. These two could not have had a more 'Eff You' and if anything, the more someone held a door waiting for them the more a curl of just dripping hatred screwed across their faces.
You've never heard the injustice from this woman. Her gaddamn husband worked for 28 gaddamm years and THIS is the reward is it? This is what we get for paying taxes and was he ever even late for work? not once. they never did a damn thing wrong and this is the fckinggg reward .. you can all go to hell. Never heard such seething vicious contempt.
Every doctor, nurse and expert was a 'gahhhh that waste of space' and 'they didnt give a damnnnn' and lots of "Ya, i bet if he was a politician they'd be jumping up and down to get him in" or that kind of talk. "yaaaa right!" was her rejoinder.
btw i don't think its "good" to die of cancer at age 57 but you nearly wanted to point out they did have 57 years. There are dead cancer patients in that hospital who only got 37 years and.. 7 years. Yes, I wish you get 87 years but you see.
Why was the 37 year old dad with 3 kids and a wife writing people hilarious text messages and wearing 'cancer joke' tshirts and he's not going to make it another year. Why is he like that?
"In the confusion of Job's thoughts--how could they be other than confused, in the presence of the awful contradiction of two such facts staring each other in the face, that God was just, yet punishing a righteous man as if he were wicked?--while he was not yet able to generate, or to receive the thought, that approving love itself might be inflicting or allowing the torture--that such suffering as his was granted only to a righteous man, that he might be made perfect--I can well imagine that at times, as the one moment he doubted God's righteousness, and the next cried aloud, 'Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him,' there must in the chaos have mingled some element of doubt as to the existence of God." - George MacDonald
I appreciate the ungrateful aspect.
I love this! Two of the greatest intellects of our time, having a meaningful discussion on a serious topic. Thank you Douglas and Jordan!
My father just signed up for euthanasia. He is dying in great pain from cancer. Is he damned? Or is it murder only if your victim is resisting?
Give Jordan Peterson the chance to speak! Stop cutting ✂️ in !
Would it be giving the state power? I see its prohibition as state power.
I agree with Douglas's perspective of fully appreciating the life you have, but in the form of how to approach living. Now that we have medical apparatus to keep people quasi-alive, I see the need to draw distinctions between different states of life.
Recently, my Grandmother fell and broke her hip and celebrated her 97th birthday in hospital. She isn’t giving up but said she doesn’t want to be revived if things were to take a turn for the worse. Who should take that agency away from her? Who should that question even be addressed to?
This is one channel which presents Good news.
How much suffering is necessary before one realizes they don't have too? I've known of two people who endured tremendous suffering for many years where the quality of their life was deeply affected. They chose assisted suicide. The family's of both accepted this choice because they understood. Transcending pain is on a personal level each person's tolerance level. Those left living are the ones who are left suffering not the dead. They have a choice not too just as those who are tired of living enslaved by their suffering. Not everyone's consciousness is evolved to that extent to stay in suffering and be grateful.
Intellect can muddle simple fundamental truths. An impoverished man may be a simple man with tremendous faith because his intellect isn’t getting in the way of his clarity. An educated man must sort through millions intellectual files and overwhelming evidence that suggest he has every right to be bitter. Christ, at every step, tried to simplify what truly mattered. You must confess your sin, ask for forgiveness, and then follow him. It stands to reason that anyone who has had to ask for mercy will be inclined to show it, it stands to reason that anyone who subjugates themselves to a higher power will be less likely to yield power over others and so on. Nothing else matters, everything else is temporary, the roads all lead to one place. If you know these things then suffering is nothing but an obstacle a passage way to somewhere else at which at the end of the journey lies the promise.
Guys, GK Chesterton talked about the suicide's rejection of everything over 100 years ago in his book Orthodoxy. Douglas basically paraphrased everything he argued in his book.
Job's wife did not die. This is important because everything he lost was replaced double--except his children, who were "replaced" once, because that would double his number of children, since human beings are eternal and would be reunited in the afterlife, and his wife, because the divine ideal is one man with one woman. Excellent and edifying conversation, though. I love to listen as ever.
Faith is a strange thing. It's easier to believe when the times are good rather than bad. And yet bad times produce infinitely more believers than the good times.
Yes, it says a lot when the poorer countries have held onto their faith, and the wealthy countries have forgotten theirs. But to turn away from faith leaves a void in your life. You replace the void with addictions, perversity, identity politics ect.
So exactly what "pact" do you violate if you commit suicide? The "pact" that you should endure any and all suffering so that others don't have to feel bad when you die?
These2! Clicked so fast!!
To have hope for the future when there is no future, as in when you're nearing the end of your life, is irrational. Gratitude maybe for the things you've had or experienced, but on what basis would one be compelled to have hope?
Immense respect for both these men. (If you haven’t yet read Murray's "War on the West," do so without delay.)
The issue that must, however, be raised is the veracity of the Job myth. It's likely the oldest book in the bible, but still based on much more ancient texts (probably Mesopotamian).
And here's where it gets dicey: the story in today's bible has been told and re-told, altered, mistranslated, edited, and otherwise modified. (The entire biblical corpus is like that.) So what you're reading may have precious little to do with the actual original story, the text of which has been lost to millennia.
Therefore, any interpretation of that myth is based on a manipulated document, which makes any interpretation, no matter how well-intentioned, suspect.
I imagine both Dr Peterson and Douglas Murray are aware of this, but it's peculiar how that never comes up.
This conversation is interesting and there are some compelling arguments here in defense of not ending one’s life by suicide or even assisted euthanasia, however, one point I don’t agree with is the point of living out your natural course of life if you are very ill or in pain that can’t be relieved. What defines a natural course of life? If an illness strikes you and makes your quality of life too hard to endure, only you can determine that, not two well off men in khakis sitting on a sofa deciding any life is better than death. It will always be a decision to be made by the one going through it because all illness is personal. I do agree that becoming bitter isn’t the answer, but enduring years of pain and illness can also get to a point where you just get tired of living and the struggle to live and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have the choice to end that suffering.
Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand that this, too, was a gift.
M.Oliver...
If someone truly wants to end their lives, they will just do it without the say so of the government.
I survived suicide 5 years ago all you people who can't understand or comprehend what would drive someone there need to realize they are 1 bad day away from making the same mistake and take it seriously
You just have to read the Enochian calls and the Repentances of Sophia to understand the organisation of things here. The gnostic baptisms are probably the most useful thing to do. It’s not about breaking a pact, enduring things, or feeling ‘grateful’. You learn and realise what’s going on, and then you call it out.
Job if you noticed he didn't curse Ha-Shem, he cursed the day he was born, don't get me started on the side of things that on a secular standing I could stand there and scream until I've lost my voice at Ha-Shem all that just for a gamble to a demon? WTF? It's really something that actually if you don't understand the book and the play going on in it. I was told by my rabbi that the book was the oldest book ever crafted. That it went on the Ark with Noach. Whether or not they had a written word then is immaterial because there was around that time something called memory. I remember talking to a priest in Ireland about the oral traditions of the Druids in Ireland and asked if he thought the oral traditions of their past was anything more than a story woven together ot keep the priests fat and sitting closest to the fire? He laughed saying no. If a Druid was retelling a story and the one who owned the place where he was orating the story changed the story or adapted it for whatever reason he could wind up with his head diverged from his body. He said it was the same with the Priests and Scribes of Israel. Being a Jew I agreed. The Septuagint was a proof 72 scribes going from memory to transcribe the Scriptures for Ptolemy of Alexandria this was a huge endeavor and the fortunes they brought with them back to Israel of all that he awarded them the greatest was the Israeli slaves that had been removed.
I attempted to take my life many times, for a myriad of reasons, one of the things that is extremely important to my staying the course is a little cat who came to me when she was 18 weeks old. I didn't want her at first. But a friend of mine knew me well. He said listen if you don't take her she will be put down. She's a runt and she's underweight and not like her siblings. I was caught. When she came into my life I spent the day watching her as a kitten, and as she grew older I had one vet who told me she wouldn't live to see her 2nd birthday. She was born in 2015 after my older sister passed away the same year. Now my cat is still going but I still feel as though that I need to be there for her, I've known her so well over the past years that it seems as if nobody else would know how to take care of her or make sure that she's as well taken care of. She likewise has been there and done things that my caregivers have seen her do. For example if I pass out and fall down she's run to me crying at me like making sure I am alert. On days back before my medications were sorted out before I had walkers she would walk beside me rubbing her head against me as I was going on knees and hands to my bed. At one point I had to try to throw myself over onto the bed because I couldn't stand to do so. Thank God that isn't the case now. Thank God I am living in housing through Catholic Charities because one of my health problems are multiple sclerosis along other issues. When I was quite young I had been somebody who had been used by people who were doing horrible things, I had no idea what they were but I didn't want to alarm my parents. Having a father with PTSD who would explode over any provocation didn't help the matter. When I realized what it was then the depression hit hard. The first attempt was before going into the 5th grade. The last one was 2014. I don't feel like I'm in the same head space now as before.
Father and Son. Psalms 144:9. Divine Weeding!! On this day. 2Peter 3:8-9. Hebreo 4:12.
Of all of the possible human shortcomings that are;
I do believe that Ingratitude is the Ugliest!
~Unknown
There were three great magicians of the Pharaoh, Jethro, Balaam and Job. When Pharaoh asked, "What should I do with the Jews? Balaam said, "CURSE THEM," which Balaam did. Jethro said " LET THEM GO." Job, which in Hebrew means, " hated one," said, "Do what you want, not my problem." Though Job feared G-d more than any other in his generation, he simply didn't take a stand, one way or another. This is why he was chosen to pass though this trial.
10:03 I have to agree with you here. Maybe those who killed themselves had an unshakeable faith in dignity. Maybe they had faith in a better afterlife. Who the hell are you to judge?!
I struggle with gratitude a lot, I try to look over my current situation and wonder exactly what is my problem. It's as though from time to time my daemon has a tantrum, the negrado. Boy can it spiral too, and the next day I have to deal with the actions of this inner brat 😢. PS: Thanks to everyone that tolerates these outbursts 😅
“Faith is the decision to ACT in COURAGE and TRUST”
“There are shallow pleasures and meanings and deep pleasures and meanings. The proper faith is faith in the deep pleasures and meanings”.
A M E N 🎉🎉🎉
And a question still remains, one needs to be mature enough to tell the difference between a shallow and a deep pleasure.
I want to remind me people that suicide is actually still very rare. A man is probably six times more likely to die in a car accident than by suicide. I don’t mean to diminish the pain of people who have lost loved ones to suicide, I just want to remind me people that most people actually still find a way to cling on to hope in life and people can become demoralised by the idea that total despair and suicide is more common than it is.