Orthodox Christian Blogger Converts to Catholicism!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2024
- In this episode we have a most interesting chat with Ben Bollinger, a theology blogger and a bright apologist for the Christian faith, whose journey began with atheism and progressed into Eastern Orthodoxy. However, in 2023, he made a shocking, final move into the Roman Catholic Church, and here we explore his intellectual and spiritual journey. This is a fascinating dialogue that you WILL NOT want to miss!
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Thanks for having me on! I pray that my story is received well among both those who celebrate my decision to become Catholic, and those who lament it.
Everyone celebrates it, and not a single person laments it. Remember to focus on kicking PROTESTANT ASS more though, Orthodox are so much better than they are and no one should ever get confused and think Orthodox isn’t infinitely better
We lament it because it is a false path.
@@nightshade99 nah your path is the false one.
The faith is a living faith. Have you seen their clown masses?
@@EricAlHarbClown masses? You seriously point that out? Dear brother, please, be honest with yourself and before God, you know how rare that is and how the average priest condemnds that, that is one of the most absurd anti-Catholic arguments. I've been to many parishes and churches, many, as sedes say "Novus Ordo churches", and many times I was overcome with awe and beauty, and the priests probably even weren't aware of the traditional movement. Liturgical abuse happens, sadly, but that is a horrible argument.
Beautiful! Thank you Ben for your articulate and candid testimony. As a hieromonk of the Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church, I ask your forgiveness for the scandalous lack of welcome you experienced in one of our Eastern Catholic parishes. But now: WELCOME HOME WITH ALL US SINNERS IN THE FULNESS OF ORTHODOXY IN THE ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH!
Amen!!!🙏 ☦️❤️🇻🇦
Thank you father, God forgives and I forgive
Makes me jealous as a boring old Latin Rite Catholic. Seems like you Ortho-Catholics get the best of both worlds: your beautiful history, liturgy, and distinctions, and yet communion with the bishop of Rome-- like the rest of us "normies." Like I said... jealous. 🙂
@@henrytucker7189 Well Matt... take heart, the words of Chesterton fit well for you as a 'normie' RC: "'The most extraordinary thing in the world is an ordinary man and an ordinary woman and their ordinary children.'" In other words, there is nothing common about the common man, nothing normie for the 'normal Catholic'!
The “Ukrainian Greco Catholic Church”? I’m so glad that I’m just Orthodox, and I don’t have to differentiate myself from my mother Church.
As a Catholic who became Orthodox and looking potentially to return to Rome this was a great video
God bless you, brother. Thanks for tuning in.
I’ll be praying for you 🙏
The Church will always be waiting for you, we are all waiting for you🙏🙏🙏with open arms to receive you again!!! God bless you brother!!! I’ll pray for you.
May God bless and guide you 🙏🏻
I’m stuck too I feel you brother
Was Orthodox for five years, I'm now Byzantine Catholic. I sacrificed a lot, but it was worth it
ouch, very bad move. repent and return to the True Faith
@@t.l.ciottoli4319says who? You?? To each his own. I was orthodox and Catholic both for many years each. I bounced between both as well. But finally came back to Rome. Everyone will prefer one over the other for their own reasons. So just serve God in either one as best you can.
But EO isn’t under Rome/Pope. Which is a big boo boo. Even several of the early saints and early fathers admitted this and that Bishop of Rome was supreme Pontiff. Try again.
@@zealousidealThe original Churches had their own Bishops
@@metrach8901 Each Catholic diocese has its own bishops.
@@CarsonWeber congratulations buddy
As someone who has struggled between Catholicism and Orthodoxy for years, now back in communion with Rome, this was a wonderful discussion. God bless all of you.
Why did you choose heresy?
@@nightshade99 Stop accusing others of what you do yourself.
@@nogoodusernames100 Prove your claim; you don't know anything about me
@@nightshade99 I don't need to prove anything, there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
@@nogoodusernames100 YOU: I don't need to prove anything,
ME: Of course you do. You made a truth claim based on no evidence. Are you usually THIS sloppy with your arguments?
YOU: there's no salvation outside the Catholic Church.
ME: Prove THAT claim too. So far, all you are doing is barking opinions.
Awesome conversion story Ben. Thanks for the shoutout!
Shout-out to our boy dwong!
We wish Ben well and pray for him.
It's funny that he mentions both Classical Theist and Mathoma because both of them helped me in my belief in God as well.
After listening to Ben, I need to go back to learning my Catholic catechism. :(
No, read your Bible
Yes, please do. It will draw you closer to God in the Body of Christ, the church set up by Christ which has been kept since the times of the apostles. It will enlighten your understanding on what is true (not what those who assume without knowledge of it believe (deliberately or undeliberately).
@@martinarooney228 I agree.
@@nightshade99you assume not both.😏
@@halleylujah247 No, I can prove "not both"
I spent almost a decade in the EO church. Glad to see some people are finding their way out and back to the universal church. Glory to God!
The RCC is not the universal church.
@@nightshade99 Right there in the name.
@@El-Harto Catholic means universal in the Greek and qualified the early Antioch churches. The Catholicism of Rome is a perversion of the original church. Learn the difference; they teach different gospels.
@@nightshade99 There is no difference. However, given that you've attacked both the Catholic and Orthodox churches, I have to ask: what *is* the universal church, in your opinion?
@@El-Harto Yes, there is. In fact, there are 39 differences between them.
I have not attacked anything. You are confusing anything that counters your belief system as an attack when I am simply delivering the truth.
The universal church is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ worldwide. The term church is a translation of a Greek word having to do with a meeting together or an “assembly” (1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:1). This word pertains to the work of God in saving and sanctifying believers as “called-out ones.”
The RCC teaches different manmade doctrines that do not identify with the early church.
Everyone's spiritual journey is unique. I was raised in Protestantism; and converted to Roman Catholicism in my mid-20s; then in my late 30s I became Eastern Catholic, and finally, I converted to Orthodoxy. I wouldn't change anything about my journey, because it has defined my life.
And the same for the journey of those who went the other way
Welcome home!
Wow. Big shoutout to Classical Theist! He was one of my reintroductions to my faith as well. Very smart guy
I am greek , I was baptized an eo but I wasnt ever rrly that inclined into orthodoxy. I researched almost all of the religions of the world at my late puberty trying to see wich fits me. Almost in all of these religions I was initially excited to learn about them but over time they didnt quench my spiritual thirst. Then I started studying about catholicism and the more I got to know about the church the more convinced I was. Only thing I have to say is that I love Jesus for everything he has done for me
Hello. The Filioque is untrue. As the Holy Spirit descended after Jesus prayed by his human will to the Father, so that the Spirit may descend (Luke 3.21-22), then since the Son prayed the Father to send the Spirit here (Luke 3.21-22) and the Holy Spirit did not come to proceed through the human nature of the Son but descended from heaven, that means that if the Filioque is true, here (Luke 3.21-22) the Spirit was sent by the Father to proceed temporally through the Hypostasis of the Son. But if by divinity the Spirit already proceeds eternally through the Hypostasis of the Son, He could not begin to proceed temporally through the Person of the Son. Therefore, here (Luke 3.21-22) the Father directly sent the Spirit from Himself, hence by origin the Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father alone and directly. Otherwise, if both the Filioque and its rejection are true, there would be two eternal processions of the Spirit - from the Father and from the Father through the Son but that would lead to two Spirits which is impossible.
@@Yasen.Dobrev watch a TH-camr called dwong on the filioque and will clarify everything
Praise God!
ive had the pleasure of being able to talk to ben a bit and learn so much about the church from him through our online interactions during my own recent journey of conversion. its great to finally be able to put a face and a voice to one of the most well versed young catholics i have ever met. thanks for the inisghts ben, and thanks to the catholic brothers channel for hosting! i look forward to tuning into more good content.
God bless Seraphim Hamilton for his work, but he definitely “stops short” at a few points, like Ben said of the Orthodox ecclesiology. I remember one video where he talks about biblical political theology, saying that the Bible builds up to an ideal universal monarchy - and then he mentions the Church, but he conspicuously refrains from applying this monarchical-unification principle to it. Pray for him, we may get him yet.
A very powerful testimony. Thank you for sharing!
Love the story, I have a Family in my parish that Is ex Eastern Orthodox & Came to the Catholic Faith by reading Dr James Lukidus, God bless 🙏🙏🗝️🗝️💯 Catholic, love the channel. I really love his story to.
My family was originally protestant, converted to Orthodoxy, then after 8 years became Catholic. It was hard leaving behind a priest we really liked and there were no hard feelings for why we left. I just couldn't shake the feeling I was only Orthodox because I didn't want to get my hands dirty with Catholicism. Once I couldn't discount the Papacy I knew I was just rebelling if I didn't convert to Catholicism.
And that’s one reason (not the only one, sure) for some people to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism: to arguably manifest - all over again - they are opting out of the Catholic Church. The difference is that now they lost confidence Protestantism could be true, but they emotionally and ideologically can’t even stand the idea of siding with Catholics (maybe for fear of their families) because they could have been indoctrinated to hate or despise whatever they learned Catholicism was. Once many find out that you can actually carry somewhat a heavy anti-Catholicism from their previous Protestant tradition to Eastern Orthodoxy, mostly its online world, they may rush to it promptly, without further (and I mean deep) investigations. Only when they study the divisive issues with honesty and humbleness, with true emptiness of the self, and finally study ecclesiology from the true Biblical, historical and universal perspective, they can be (maybe) ready to see they were mistaken the whole time - and finally embrace the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that Our Lord built upon Peter.
@@masterchief8179 I often found myself deferring to the Catholic teaching when I couldn't find the answer in Orthodoxy. The covid year was a turning point because I couldn't attend services so was doing my own research. I inevitably found I agreed with Catholicism on almost every argument between East and west. Being raised that the Pope was the antichrist definitely hindered me from converting early on. I also had a big fear of the church caused by listening to some trad/sedi Catholics who made me not want to be a part of the church.
It's ABC syndrome.
Anything But Catholic.
@Whatintheworlt No problem, brother. I like your generosity. But I feel you are in the minority, I guess. Personally I am Catholic because I am, not because I was convinced or muscled out by someone else. But I am actually 100% convinced. It’s something I couldn’t have missed. God bless you!
You’re onto something. The first chapter of Vlad Soloviev’s “Russia and the Universal Church” is a long metaphor about how the Catholic Church “got its hands dirty,” participating in the good and bad of history, in an attempt to expand the kingdom of God.
Thankyou so much for this conversation & how honest & articulate you guys are. Wonderful!
Really appreciated Ben’s video on the significance of the conversion of the center of the world pagan empire into the empire of monotheism. Always thought it was an excellent argument for the Roman primacy!
Great video! I wasn’t expecting this to be so in depth! God Bless Ben and I will continue to pray for him 🙏💕✝️!
I attended a Traditional Latin Mass before this I was an attendee at the local NO. I never left been a member of the SSPX for over 30 years now. I had uncle who was a
Maronite priest for over 40 years and fell in love with the different branches Im 63 and continue to enjoy the different rites. I thought of going over to the Maronite, but just make the
Move. Thank you enjoyed the program. God Bless
This was a beautiful testimony. Thanks for sharing.
Great interview
Great interview!
Thanks chaps!
Classical Theist videos always leave me feeling the same way… Reading Aquinas is a whole new level! Glad you came home
Welcome to the true one true catholic and apostolic church
Florence employed the hermeneutic of continuity amongst the Church Fathers. If the Eastern Fathers did not explicitly express the Filioque, they were on a trajectory towards it and were seeking the proper expression of the doctrine. Maximos the Confessor and John of Damascus would have been quite satisfied with the Florentine synthesis.
God bless you, brothers. Welcome home Ben!
Really appreciated your perspective. We have inherited this schism. I pray we can come into communion some day. East and West each holds the deposit, it's painful that we cannot celebrate each other.
Great conversation. Very similar to my journey through Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Amazing discussion with tons of facts. Well done!
I will be joining too soon.
The way he dipped into those letters from Church Fathers confirming the catholic view of the bishop of Rome was 🔥🔥🔥
Very interesting content!
God bless and protect you all. Continue teach and proclaim our Catholic Church teachings. Amen
Second time watching this and wow ❤
I pray that catholics and orthodox become one holy apostolic church. I am and will remain catholic, but I love the orthodox church, because of their beautifull liturgy and my beloved saint seraphim of sarov and many other beautifull orthodox saints.🙏
Great video.
Thanks Robert! Ben was a great guest
I feel that no human interaction bit. As I was discerning I went to Mass almost every Sunday for 2 years, and I had one person, in two years, say hello to me, and that was only because he was someone I'd worked with previously. It's a good thing I wasn't looking for a real warm welcome, or I'd have been in trouble.
Nice!
39:36 Ben provides multiple pieces of evidence for Catholicism that many Orthodox either aren't aware of or choose to avoid/ignore.
Its very disconcerting that the meat of the reason for being convinced of RCism was essentially being disconnected from the "real world" during the Covid lockdown, and imbibing in the theoretical aspects from faith and in so doing trusting open source english translations of popes agatho and adrian i which use the Latin instead of more reliable Greek renderings. Lord have mercy!
I've never seen an EO answer Agatho's letter
Try to look harder, the Greek minutes of the council are different.@@USDebtCrisis
I think that every side will always argue back and forth, debate back and forth, it's just how life goes. Folks like Ubi or Truglia could make dozens of videos of the length of 100s of hours, but that doesn't make you a winner automatically, much less the truth, because what if a Catholic.apologetics group started making dozens of 5hour videos in response to Ubi? You get my point? There'll always be attacks and counterattacks. I'm Catholic, and whenever I meet people studying for the true Church, I just tell them, be honest with yourself, God and the data, and pray a lot, and have great trust in God. Why does God allow people after much study to convert and be convinced by EO? I don't know. Or in your perspective, why are there people who study and becomr convinced by our position and not Orthodoxy? It's a mystery for both of us. But I know one thing, we must never doubt in the love, wisdom and power of God.
@@NicoFTWandMichael I agree. I dont think people are swayed nearly as much by evidence as they are by spiritual influences. This is why the admission in this video that the doubts started when being divorced from worhsip and the sacraments i found to hit the nail on the head.
Hey Catholic Brothers
I have recently broke myself and my family out of EO, we are headed back to the Latin mass in communion with Rome.
I thought I’d ask if you have an email I can message you on?
I am not very good at explaining dogmatic differences though I do know what I believe I am just not as eloquent as some men I have observed. My wife is my “Aaron” and I am her “Moses” but I feel that my gift is feeling the heart and knowing what I see and feel more so than what I hear.
The senses are definitely fully engaged when in the EO and that can be a distraction from the things of the heart. As soon as I began to question it I saw a side to Orthodoxy that most do not see and this crosses some high esteemed Monasteries and Monastic communities. In short most of my story crosses into Monastic territory.
I would like to share my experience but would rather not have my identity out there and would like to keep names dates and places vague enough that I am not painting a target on myself and my family.
God bless you and I hope to hear from you guys
DEUS VULT ✝️
Thecatholicbrothers@gmail.com
The EO has no Fatima,Lourdes ,Guadalupe,Divine Mercy, and all other shrines. So, i will stick with RC !
E Michael Jones gave a very logical explanation to one of the reasons the Roman Church declared the filioque was due to the Arian heresy
Welcome home bro 🙏🇻🇦✝️🇺🇸
Idk how old this guy is but it’s cool to hear a similar journey to mine. Baptized and raised Catholic, went to mass almost weekly as a kid. Around middle school I stopped. Only cared about friends, girls and video games. Religion was this separate outdated concept and something which wasn’t needed in this modern age. Started listening to Tyler the creator in like 6/7th grade and he made being an atheist sound cool and like it’s the reasonable non delusional thing to do. This is what people who accept reality believe. And I was on ifunny too lol following conservative type pages. I wasn’t initially political, around 2013-15/16 when social liberalism was starting to become this nationwide mainstream thing and everyone was on board with It I found myself disagreeing heavily with them. Not sure why, my faith growing up had nothing to do with it, I was just heavily opposed to it(I should also add around 2016 I was actually confirmed, my younger cousin was doing it so my mom decided I should too, so I did… unfortunately it was mostly for her, I actually enjoyed it as well but after that was done I wasn’t involved with religion yet again) but yea Many times I even questioned why I had these bad beliefs and that it would be easier if I could just go along with (being a latino closet trump supporter as a 15/16 year old) their lib ideas, but it’s not possible. The world they want with their ideas is not a good one… anyways I was extremely restless during this time with politics and kinda ignored it for 4 years (yea until 2020). 2016-2020 was my “worldly phase”, all I cared about was self pleasure. During these times I feel my fetish for destructive behavior caused permanent damage. Stopped going to school, barely graduated, ate out everyday, high everyday, porn everyday, messing with as many girls as I could, focused on buying expensive clothes and shoes, etc. Even entertained Islam because my favorite hood rappers were “Muslim” and I thought it was cool to say those Arabic phrases… well yea fast forward 2020 and the initial year I’m scared and isolating like most young secular non political adults probably were… the following year I start to notice the ones who call the shots are pretty fucking weird. Then when i see reactions to BLM and roe vs wade (I was always against abortion but had a weak mindset of “well I don’t agree but woman’s choice”) I start putting things together. The same people forcing masks and vaccines and isolation are the same ones who push lgbt, BLM (race tenions), pro abortion, etc. (I also found it concerning that me a 20 year old man at the time had seen so much lgbt propaganda that I despite never agreeing with homosexuality, thinking about it unless it was brought up and having a natural desire to seek women, was almost convinced thru experimenting with thoughts and porn that I was possibly sexually attracted to men, I could tell this was harmful and if I were not 20 and male I probably would’ve accepted such a thing as true and apart of me, our children and especially the girls/young woman have no chance in this environment to grow up to be normal people, these perverted lies will deceive many) and I realized I didn’t want that. Not for me or my future family. I was attracted to religion because i saw it as the counter to whatever this shit was. So initially I saw it as good but probably not true. My new journey started summer 2022. Thank God since than everything has changed. The world is still corrupt and there is much evil and sin destroying it but God is real, Christ is king and I trust Him completely
No east or west in Christ. ❤❤❤
It sounds like Ben joined the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church where congregational singing is encouraged. They came out of the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church which also has excellent congregational singing.
Looooooove it tkuuuuuu
First, as an Orthodox Christian I feel quite comfortable that I am in Christ’s one holy Catholic and apostolic Church. The grace of God is very apparent in Orthodox saints, sacraments, and dogmas and I’ve experienced Christ profoundly in my life in Orthodoxy.
Secondly, I pray for all Christians, and for all people. May we all grow closer to the Lord. He loves us all, whatever our circumstances and the Holy Spirit works in all our lives to bring us to Him.
Thirdly, as Christians, especially today as society moves more away from Christ and against Christianity of all forms, we Christians should seek to get to know one another, help one another and cooperate in good works that glorify God. We shouldn’t be tearing one another down and calling one another names as so often happens. May the Lord help us all to repent.
Fourth, the Orthodox and Roman Catholic communions both have many good attributes as well as sins since both are made up of human beings in addition to the divine element which is present.
Fifth, these two have been engaging in formal dialogues for many years to work out their differences. They have been making strides in this regard, which is a good thing. This process continues. You who have advanced knowledge of the issues should contribute your gifts toward this end.
Sixth, each of us should follow where the Lord calls us to work out our salvation. For me it is in the Orthodox Church. For others, lit is the RC Church.
Well said
Amen 🙏
Amen! ☦
Orthodoxy is protestantism. They've been doing it for a thousand years ❤😊
@@albertaowusu3536 I guess you could see it as a protest against the innovation of papal supremacy, against a terrible distortion of proper papal primacy, against a terrible abuse of power, against a schismatic departure from the Holy Tradition of the undivided Church of the first millennium. This issue....papal supremacy...is perhaps the main issues that remains to be addressed in the official dialogues. The schism will heal when the papacy gives up its false assertion of universal jurisdiction and returns to its proper boundary. It's interesting that Ben, the Catholic Brothers, and so many RC commentators here, like you, don't seem very aware of that issue.
Thank you, all three. This was a very thoughtful conversation, and thoroughly enjoyable!
It is good to hear the Truth that these are not easy questions to answer. (I hope the recent better -- at least slightly better -- coverage of Pope Francis is making life a little easier!)
And thank you for the reminder, the essence of the Church is her Bridegroom.
Welcome to the Body of Christ. You are in the right place. Thank the Holy Spirit for leading you to all Truth, Grace and fullness of life.
You guys should do a video on which of the churches you see more present in the early centuries - catholic or orthodox.
The priority of EED - in defining much - in EO is the dividing line. The great separator.
❤❤❤❤❤
Major coping and seething comin' thru.
@TheCatholicBrothers what Protestant sources did you dive into at the seminar you referenced?
As a Protestant it would be interesting to know the depth and quality of resources you dug into.
Incredible young man. Brilliant. Childlike and spiritual -honest and love authors he mentions never heard of.
QUESTION: what was the procedure for him to enter the Catholic Church? RCIA🤣 he’s so beyond can’t imagine being his instructor. Was he confirmed by bishop? Was his baptism accepted? I hate to say it but how did he handle the homosexual sin issue in the Vatican and among priests. How does one protect oneself and be vulnerable at same time. I’m Catholic in my theological journey but so hard the nastiness that has been prevalent. I know personally several stories of abuse and one is too many. Hard to step over to become Catholic. Also the subject of purgatory his thoughts?
PS as a music major I long for the Russians to come home. Gregorian is great but those bold deep lamenting liturgies are greater than the Italian operas. Timeless and less ethnic than you might think.
My dear sister on the journey, yes, it is hard to embrace a holy Church made up of sinners.
The teachings of Rome are never going to lead you astray. If you have noticed, the left is trying to change the Church to be more accepting of Sin. And the right is trying to change the Church into a museum, where no living thing lives.
It is a hospital. If you are wounded by the world, you will find help to heal, and help to become strong against Sin.
PS, many Russians have come home. Do you have a Russian Catholic Church near you?
Out of the gate: I don't really use the "new rite" of Reconciliation/ confession,. I learned how to make my confession in 1964 (I am 65, about to turn 66). If I am "doing it wrong," do please excuse me but I basically open with "bless me Father, for I have sinned; it has been X weeks since my last confession; these are my sins" and then get into what I regard as my mortal sins. "And for these and all the sins of my past life I am sorry." Then I listen to the priest in counseling and giving a penance, and make the (old-style) act of contrition and the priest gives absolution i will say, "For His mercy endures forever only if the prest says, "Give thanks to the Lord for He is good." And I still say "God bless you, Father, and thank you, Father." Yes, I'm old school.
I literally follow the exact same pattern
The true church is one,the Holy Catholic church.
But papacy, immaculate conception, supererogation. How is you ok with this?
Don't let misrepresent that it only represented the RC. The four marks of church are present in orthodox church ever since..
@@miuitest5272 did you even watch the video or are you still coping out???
Ben, you mentioned you attended a Latin Mass in Chicago. I'm not sure if you're from the area, or if you traveled to attend Mass (St John Cantius is very well known), but I had the same experience as you going to an Eastern Catholic church around here. The pastor was great, and I very much enjoyed his sermons, and the liturgy was beautiful. But my kids were treated like they were a nuisance by certain members of the congregation, and as a family, we felt very unwelcomed, as if we were bulls in a china shop. Granted, my kids weren't used to church, and weren't behaving, but we've never been treated that way anywhere else. I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing, but it still upsets me to this day, because I had a lot of hope that we could find a home in a place that worships with reverence, and that just didn't happen. If the litergy was terrible, or I didn't like the pastor, or we could just try another Eastern parish down the road, maybe I'd feel differently.
As an orthodox Christian, my main historical argument against the papacy is that after the schism all the other patriarchs sided with Constantinople and not Rome. If Rome was meant to be this centre of unity, why did the rest of the church side against it? This is a genuine question I have and I haven’t yet found an answer. I’m not looking for an argument, I’m genuinely interested in the catholic view on this. God bless.
That’s a respectable argument, brother. I have my own responses to it, but I definitely think that that is one of the stronger objections to Catholicism for an Orthodox to hold.
@@TheCatholicBrothers could you please share your thoughts on it, or tell me where to look at a catholic response to this objection? Thank yog
@@Havoc2317 I wish I were knowledgeable enough to give you a good answer on this, brother, but I can offer you a prayer. God bless you, and may you find peace.
I would say 2 things: (1) Look at the state of the patriarchates at that time. It wasn’t as if there were 5 equal patriarchates. It was pretty much Constantinople as the richest and most powerful. Then Rome as the primate of the Church. Then the other 3 which had come under Muslim domination. (2) Antioch, after the Melkite Schism, is now with Rome, no matter how you slice it. Wish you the best; God bless.
@@achilles4242 thank you for your reply, will look into this. God bless
There is a great beauty in Orthodoxy, and Orthodox spirituality can enrich the west. Unfortunately most Orthodox are not ready for unity, they still harbor great anxiety over the shear size of the Catholic Church. I believe they think they will be swallowed up and loose their distinctive culture. While having a severe Napoleon complex makes dialogue difficult. Orthodox no matter how the west will look at something, they feel they must somehow say we are expressing it incorrectly, they can't help themselves. This is why they are not ready for unity.
As a person who is thinking about converting to Orthodoxy, what made you guys switch from the other way around?
Have you read Michael Lofton's book "Answering Orthodoxy"?
"...I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins..."
Me too
I would like to see the brothers debate jay dyer you could double team him.
This is an awesome story. What parish do you guys belong to?
St Mary of Perpetual Help in Chicago
@@TheCatholicBrothers What a stunning Church. I've only been to Chicago once and I wasn't able to visit any of the Churches. Are all the Masses celebrated ad orientem?
@@jacobsullivan9847 yes. There is no post-conciliar altar. Only the original high altar.
@@TheCatholicBrothers That's awesome. They're doing great work. I go to the only Institute of the Good Shepherd parish in the US. We're going to be doing a restoration of our sanctuary. Say some prayers that it'll be successful. We need more beauty in the Church today.
Imagine asking all these questions in a conversation with Jesus….
He looks like Kyle Alander's older brother.
Please may you do a video on Jesuits. There is a growing trend amongst non Catholics, blaming the Jesuit order for being behind the new world order!
I went the other way. I converted to the Roman Catholic Church in college and, as an older adult, converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, for exactly the opposite reasons. The supremacy of the Pope, at least in the modern sense of institutional unity, is simply not something borne out by the life of the early church. When there were controversies, Rome helped, and everyone acknowledged it, but Churches were left to run their own affairs. Instead, in the West, any vestigial acknowledgment of episcopal authority, or patriarchates, or even particular churches (the canonical distinctives of the East having been codified by a Roman congregation) has slowly withered.
There is more that could be said, but all I will share is that, having practiced traditional Catholicism for 16 years of my life, I have found nothing as deep or as rooted in the Scriptures and Tradition as the Orthodox faith. Its difficulties do not always suit my human reason, and its leadership may exasperate me, but I met God here. And after I met God, I met my wife, who revealed to me after we got engaged that she had prayed to St. Spyridon and St. Matrona for an Orthodox husband.
catholic bishops are very much independent in the way they lead their dioceses, with no interference from Rome --- and it seems that there is great confusion in your mind - during the first centuries, within each Patriarchate, there was also no allowance to be at divergence with the Patriarchal decisions - moreover, the Pope is not only the center of unity for the whole Church, but also the Patriarch of the Latin Church - which is 90% of the Catholic Church - indeed, the Pope has nearly no saying in the other catholic Patriarcates of the East...
What St. Mary church is being referenced?
St Mary of Perpetual Help in Chicago.
Ben started out slow but wow !
Wow. The one continuous theme that can be discerned throughout this long pilgrimage is arrogant narcissism.
Perhaps the same theme as this comment.
Big deal! Welcome home!
How do I know which mass to attend?
What diocese do you live in?
If it's a Catholic mass, go there. Doesn't matter if it is Latin or Ordinary Form. Don't listen to people who say the OF is wrong/dangerous. Also, when attending Latin masses, avoid SSPX and sedes, and go to legal ones like FSSP, ICKSP, IBP or diocesan Latin masses.
Fred:
Invest in a copy of Bishop Athanasius Schneider's catechism, "Credo, a Compendium of the Catholic Faith".
Sophia Institute Press, published 2023
It's amazing!
We should aim to convert everyone into the Catholic church. We lose ground if we skirt around it and try to be pally pally about it.❤That includes orthodoxy😊
As orthodox like i understand some arguments but there are like blatant misrepresentations and bad arguments as well.
Read Dr James Lukidus he's ex Eastern Orthodox to Catholic & his son is doing the apologetics because Dr James Lukidus he's in his 90's but most of his Family is now Catholic & they grew up Greek Orthodox, I also have a family in my parish that Converted to the Catholic Church, God bless 🗝️🗝️💯 Catholic
That is why orthodox refers to saint Augustine as blessed Augustine.
What do you mean?
what's your take on utraquism?
Incense is the soul's oxygen. - Nicolás Gómez Dávila
Catholics sure did preach the gospel to the ends of the earth.
01:08:44
This is what happened with me. I came to the conclusion that Christianity is false. I'm glad you're able to make it work.
Sorry to hear that brother. But everyone has to encounter Christ and make a decision about Him, and not everyone makes the same decision.
"What made me take Orthodoxy more seriously was when I started to go to mass on Sunday..."
The reaction was eloquent.
Almost as if there's something obviously, glaringly wrong with the Novus Ordo rites...
@@servus_incognitus There isn't though. It wasn't anything about the liturgy, he just said he wasn't shown around by the people there.
@@tafazziReadChannelDescriptionthey said in the video that they wouldn't be willing to recommend to a person converting to just "go and see" a regular Novus Ordo parish mass, all the while implying that you could do that with a Traditional Byzantine Liturgy or implicitly with a Traditional Latin Mass. Why is that? There is absolutely a lot wrong with it and with the spirit/intentions that have birth to it. I do not wish to go into the specifics of why here, but you don't have to be a radtrad to acknowledge this, which is as clear to the eye as bright daylight.
@@servus_incognitus It's still not true. 90% of people are annoyed when they don't get what's going on, which is why it's far better to invite your non catholic friend to a normal mass instead of one that lasts more than an hour and in a language they don't understand.
It's fine if you have a certain kind if spirituality, but you're the minority. Most people are fine with the normal mass, the radtrad armchair analysis of tjis issue is just unhinged and untethered to reality.
@@tafazziReadChannelDescriptionyeah, nevermind, I see we're have no common ground here. Your view of the function of the Liturgy as something subjective, that one might or might not identify with, really skews your view on this and makes it impossible to argue with.
I'll just say that if you were correct, Catholicism would have never dominated and converted an entire civilization in the Middle Ages, converting many different kinds of peoples with a liturgical language that was foreign to them, nor is it true what you said about people being annoyed with "not understanding" (not to mention how much worse it is that they think they understand anything when translated, when they actually don't), nor does it matter if most people like it or not from my point of view. If that was the case, the Church would be booming and increasing its influence, especially in NO parishes, but the contrary is true.
Anyway, have a nice day.
"Lord we just..." Lol
😉lol
Jude 11 warned the Orthodox and protestants of Korah's rebellion. Numbers 16: 3 is what they say to the Asher Al Habayit/Royal Steward that the Davidic King left over His church.
If there were less filler words and more proper explanations of people and concepts that are being discussed this video would be so much better.
Could you elaborate what you mean by “filler words” ? (Keep in mind that this video is not an apologetic video directed against Orthodoxy but more of an exploration of Ben’s thought journey, overall).
Why do the orthodox come across as angry all of the time?
I have no clue why
Because they are?
@@susand3668 dude no?
Just because there are so many orthobros on TH-cam doesn't mean that every orthodox christian is now mean.
Dear@@dominikdurkovsky8318, okay. I did not intend to imply anyone is *mean*. But if some people appear to be angry, maybe it is because they really are angry and not faking it.
If I was catholic, I'm not saying I would question his conversion, but I would question his decision making. Who becomes baptized in EO without being convinced of it? Why should this guy's epistimology be taken seriously? I can see why authority would be an issue for him, as he's someone whos bounced around belief systems. From what I've seen as soon as someone needs authority in what to believe, they look to Rome.
He wasn’t baptized into the Orthodox Church. He was baptized Lutheran as a child, so his baptism was considered valid by his Orthodox priest.
By your standards of measure, St Augustine’s epistemology should have never been taken seriously either, seeing as he “bounced around belief systems” quite a bit.
@@TheCatholicBrothers I'm not EO, so I didn't know which baptisms they accept. However, whether it was by baptism or crismation, he still entered into a group without fully believing their dogmas, so my point still stands. I'm not as familiar with the life of Augustine as I should be, but did he become a christian while still being unconvinced of Christianity? Did he just like the community and eventually became convinced of their truth claims?
@@juniper-ug3hs I don’t think that’s what Ben was saying. He was yielding his mind and will over to the authority of the Church (and, in this case, it was the Orthodox Church) when the issues between East and West seemed historically knotty enough for him to be mistaken. So, yes, while he may not have been convinced yet by Orthodox arguments, he knew he didn’t want to be Catholic at the time. So, given the choice between Orthodoxy, Protestantism, or apostasy, he clung to Orthodoxy. Eventually, he would come to find out that that move was more provisional than permanent.
@@TheCatholicBrothers Ben does seem to be genuinely kind, but that is not the reading I got from his testimony. Also, what if he was never swayed by EO? Suppose he became RC immediately after leaving atheism, goes through cathecism, gets baptized but isn't convinced of the claims of RC. Still, he likes the mass, partaking of the sacraments, going to confession, etc. So he clings to Rome, and gives his will to the authority of Mother Church. Then it takes him almost a year of being catholic before he finally claims to be convinced of papal authority, purgatory, all majesterial degrees, and so on. Then COVID hits, and then in a time of seperation he begins to the read the capadocian fathers, or some other EO saints and slowly begins to accept the tenets of EO. Then he converts, and you see him on Jay Dyer's channel quoting church fathers and councils and arguing for the EO perspective on the filioque. You would be reasonable to wish him well, but also question how he makes decisions and his methods of epistomology and argumentation.
Yes I agree, he definitely does not need to be blogging and making videos when he is so confused and new.
Latin christianity hlso has spiritual fatherhood. More natural and geared towards laypeople than orthodoxy, honestly.
People who change their faith as routinely as they do socks aren't those we want in the Church anyway.
Yea same way you treat St Augustine, so makes sense.
@@TheCatholicBrothersAs if St. Augustine would even recognize the perverted monstrosity you have in Rome.
I personally don't care if you do yoga . Just know from an old school styles Catholic is two Greco words put together meaning every and all. Good luck getting the church representatives to admit it on all branches . Such is life. Honour GOD above all and be honest to the new testament
FORMAL DEBATE BORN-AGAIN COMMENT REBUTTAL # 2:
JAVIER: The Church is Holy.... or approving an heretical council.
ALAN: Do you have biblical support for this claim? Please provide the verse that uses the Holy Spirit in conjunction with this evil line of men while also waving off its heretical acts as trivial. This is not from God, Javier. It's an invented tradition.
JAVIER: This is a very concise point.... when the Pope did promulgate heresy from councils or ex-cathedra pronunctiations.
ALAN: It doesn't matter because the pope's words are not reflecting what God dictates. If you claim a leadership role within a religion, then you set an example, ESPECIALLY if you are linking yourself to Jesus Christ Himself. The ex-cathedra man-made nonsense doesn't fly because the doctrines spilling forth from the papal chair were heretical as well.
(100 words)
Was Catholic for 35 years. I’m so thankful I found the Orthodox Church. Would never think of going back.
Does this guy not understand that Rome could lose the Orthodox Faith? Is Papa Frank, the alleged successor of Peter teaching Holy Orthodoxy?