This episode is fascinating. Enjoy. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:20 Origin of ‘Toxic Masculinity’ 04:20 Why Women Are Told to be More Masculine? 11:30 The Decline of Men in Education 20:24 Gap Between Male & Female Teachers 27:27 Solutions for the Education Imbalance 32:14 Why are Men leaving the Labour Market? 46:36 Expanding the Role of Fatherhood 58:48 The ‘Checked-out’ Men 1:04:48 Men’s Rights Vs Women’s Rights 1:13:04 Where to Find Richard
I think it's incredibly difficult for young men these days to navigate society and the fact that you and others like Jordan Peterson are out there offering guidance is fantastic. There is a huge need for support on both sides (all sides) for young people, especially in this ever increasing society of high visibility. Loved this episode ❤️
Another fantastic conversation Chris! Your show is easily in my top 3 favorite list. On this topic have you touched on any of Warren Farrell’s work and to expand out on that the work of Robert Bly? Granddaddies of the contemporary men’s movement and opened my mind up to all Thai that you are researching and talking about.
I have been a engineering middle school teacher for 13 years in a very affluent, Massachusetts town, and I can tell you absolutely you guys are correct. I was told multiple times per year that I should put up more pictures of girls in my room, I should encourage more girls to become engineers and scientist, and that the girls were in a deficit and needed to be pushed forward, many times at the expense of the boys, but that was never said outright. when I brought up the statistics about the 60/40 split educational attainment I was either told that I was wrong I was misinformed, or it just fell on deaf ears. Almost all the teachers in the school are female, and the whole culture of the school and educational system is very female, feminine oriented. If the boys can’t sit still and do their work, they are medicated or disciplined. The male energy always seem to be the problem and no one thinks about how to capitalize on it and use it to educate boys, they are continually talk to act more like girls, so they’re easier for the educational system to handle.
There's a big push here in Australia to get more girls in construction jobs. No high paying or high status male job is safe. (Construction pays very well here.) Meanwhile, female dominated jobs are ring-fenced from male intrusion.
I teach elementary engineering, and my curriculum is tilted towards male interests; fighter jets, cars, huge bridges and dams, etc. The kids love it, both boys and girls. I'm the first male teacher these kids have, and I'm the best teacher in the building. If the kids love you, you can teach anything, and nobody will get in the way.
@@taylorc2542 Yeah my students loved me too and I wasn't invited back to teach the summer program b/c of internal politics, the parents, and the administration. Sadly, the students loving you is not enough.
Exactly. There can also be both a rise in group a (girls) & a drop in group b (boys). Who's betting the drop in boys' performance & rise in school exclusion coincides nicely with increased fatherlessness & effeminisation of education (eg low discipline)?
oh they will be once they need something fixed or built. Women will never replace men in such jobs. Think it's viable to expect more women to become auto mechanics, construction workers, A/C repairman, and carpenters, and technicians so you can finally erase those evil white men? If you think so, you are delusional. These jobs are more or less men only, because women don't want them and can't do them. This is not "sexism" it is biology, and there's not one thing anybody can do to reverse the situation.
I’ve worked in HR organisational development for over 15 years, mostly leadership, culture and high-perfomance. The field is so anti-male that I’m exploring leaving the field. When I was running my own business, I was repeatedly told (“off the record”) that organisation decision makers wouldn’t work with male consultants. As an employee, I’ve literally been declined work many times “we all think you’d be perfect for the role but our team is all female and we are concerned that they might feel uncomfortable with a man in the team”. Technically illegal though in practice not, I’ve explored legal recourse, yet it’s impossible to prove as it’s always verbally over the phone, so no action can reasonably be taken. I recently interviewed for a role and during the interview learned the organisation of 1,600 was 72% female, female CEO and 80% female executive. When I asked about top priorities, I was told “We still have so much more to do to advance woman at work.” I genuinely asked “Given (the stats), would you please help me understand what success looks like?” That was clearly the undiscussable topic and taboo question and the job killer.
What I just refuse to believe is that women are actually better at anything when you take out mediocre women who get degrees that don’t really lead to any skills. The thing that women do have is an ability to work the systems which appears to favor them. That level of favoritism is illegal. Who wouldn’t want to go down a well beaten path that leads to employment and a steady life, and that’s what college is for women. It’s not that for men by a long shot. If you get a degree you are disregarded as basically not knowing anything for the first ten years of your adult life, while women in the bloom of youth are the most valued they’ll ever be by society. These factors I’ve discussed could easily explain the “achievement gap,” and why it functionally doesn’t exist. Also, since women are supposedly doing better than men now, where’s our affirmative action, or at least why does any form of female encouragement need to continue, while male solidarity it essentially illegal?
Did you not record the phone call? If it makes you any better women dont do well in trade industry for example electrician jobs because there is mybe 0.1% doing them.
I work at a major health insurance company. We get monthly inclusion & Diversity emails breaking down the demographic stats of employees. 83% women at a large company, my boss, her peers, and our VP are all women. Yet despite their ideological narrative pushing around the pay gap I’m underpaid per my own boss. Being a minority of minorities since I was born on a south Asian island, has afforded me no special treatment in a predominantly white W work space. Just a bunch of virtue signaling with no action. I have received two market pay raises totaling $20k so far, but they still doesn’t make up for the pay gap. Still below the median pay per glass door even after 10 years with the company. The market raises did come from HR, so I’m thankful for at least some effort.
It's disheartening to me that the vast majority of written and verbal discussion about "men's problems" starts from the assumption that the only purpose of men is to do things for women and that men have no intrinsic value just by virtue of being men. "The declining utility of males." Utility for whom? Women and children. If you start from this assumption, all your research and its findings are biased by your "internalized misandry".
They only CARE about Men's issues UNTIL it starts affecting Society as a Whole. Society needs Men for the system to function that's when this guy and CNN Decided to bring such issues to the Mainstream. Before then Nada! Men's suffrage didn't matter! The stats didn't matter UNTIL we've reached ((Epidemic Levels))!!
You put my exact thoughts into words. I’ve always thought that men have so much self hatred because they want to feel useful. A lot of men’s rights rhetoric is focused on finding a way to be useful rather than being useful just by simply existing. Feminism allowed women to define themselves outside of men and procreation and I hope that men will be able to reach that same freedom. Your value should not be intertwined with anyone else because that’s validation not true self acceptance. Loving yourself is a revolutionary act so go out and be rebels ❤️
"DECLINING UTILITY OF MALES"? That's someone's idea of a bad joke! What utter fool came up with that concept? They could make a movie "A DAY WITHOUT MEN". Then show the results. Now there's a movie I'd watch, it would be hilarious! Picture this: The highways littered with dead cars, OMG no one can fix them now! And they can't even tow them away so the dead cars are just left where they stalled. All the traffic lights are out since there's no power either. Turn on the taps, no water comes out, OOPS, no one knows how to fix the plumbing. Air travel? Gone, no planes fly, nobody knows how to put the gas in! Nobody even knows how to drive the fuel trucks. Cities turning into mad-houses as all the police are female, no one defends against thieves, so they loot every Waz-mart (worse then they already are now). The flaws in all the men and their "DECLINING UTILITY" now seem like a minor joke as civilization collapses into a new bronze age, only nobody knows how to make the bronze...
@@robertmaybeth3434 I’m a woman and I agree with every word you say. I go along with James Brown’s song, “This Is a Man’s World”. Regarding “equal pay”, I never hear a word about women wanting to get up in a cherry picker at 3:00 a.m. to fix the power lines during a snow storm. Or being a general laborer, a home builder, etc. It’s always about the ratio of office executives. Women can’t even keep things running well in their homes. And the only time women began being commercial pilots is when the aircraft became so highly computerized. A stick and rudder female pilot?? Hardly. Knowing how to think outside the box in a crisis?…no way. Sorry women, but we are different from men. It’s why boys want to play with trucks and girls want to play with dolls. We have our different roles in this world. We both need each other. But not in the way it’s demanded of men these days. We do have to remember that girls were raised in the same classrooms as the boys when they were being viewed as “bad boys” just because they are more boisterous than girls. And the girls were taught this by teachers and who knows what their feminist mothers have said to them. Women in their 30’s are utterly lost, too. They don’t deeply realize how they were taught to think lower of males and that they needed to view men as their competitors. Academia has been the ruin of all of us. So has the media and the lunatic Woke.
I've been the primary carer for our kids since birth as my wife was career obsessed. When we divorced, I left with nothing, but was still the full time career. I'm the worst person in the world because I refused to get a job, believing as I did that every child deserves a parent at home who is there just for them. Everywhere I went I'd get the disapproving looks of "here comes the useless bum who's leeching off his ex wife." I can tell you 100% that there is no equality when it comes to parenthood.
I bet that's the same type of story my useless bum ex husband tells too. Truth was I was working my arse off to keep our heads above water after he quit his job when I had our son he said he wanted. He thought I wouldn't dare divorce him because he knew men get some custody now days and he knew I wouldn't want to share my child with a step mom. He was right for a while. I stayed for 5 years to get my son talking before I divorced his dad so that my son could tell me if he was mistreated. So I was basically a slave on government assistance with a husband that refused to work counting as an adult dependent pushing me over the poverty line and making us qualify for foodstamps. My son and I were never on stamps again after I left his idiot father. But you spin the story like you are a hero. Bum
You are a man. You are supposed to be the money maker. Instead you are just a loser who is commenting on TH-cam to get sympathies. All the rich women i know are married to men who are similar or above them in money making. No wonder you are divorced, loser. LOL🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
@@cantbendknee it's not the same thing. He is a man... with separation he is left with nothing. The mother gets the kid, the father pays alimony. Period.
As a (female) teacher I have championed young men and women for thirty years and am absolutely horrified at what I see. Contemporary ideology is pulling men and women apart in the most shallow, brutally stupid, psychology-free way and to witness this, (especially after years of encouraging great engagement with, understanding and celebration of each other from both sexes), is soul-destroying. I too utterly condemn the term 'toxic masculinity' and to those who criticise me I reply that they should first define for me the term 'toxic femininity'. What we need is a new movement headed up by strong men and women who want to be together, who want to celebrate and build on that. It will happen.
@Marie Baker Tiktok is pretty bad, plus its mindless drible with only 30 second dumb ass videos. Social media is pretty bad nowadays, however it shouldn't be banned because thats government yet again imposing its will own our lives. Like we haven't had enough of that lately.
Take it from a guy who has been warning about this since the early 90s....women will never, ever listen. The truth makes them look bad, and equal treatment would mean women lose a shitload of privilege. And most women believe themselves exceptional enough to escape general consequences. This is why this slide is one way...by the time women finally admit they fucked up, they will have thoroughly torched any hope men would forgive them.
When I worked at Statefarm, the annual diversity report was released, and they announced that corporate (not the agents' offices) was now over 60% female. The conclusion was "we still need to do more to hire and support women" and I was just like wtf.
@@petemorton8403 My grand dad has worked with State Farm for legit 40yrs. He says the problem is they're essentially trying to slowly but surely get rid of the individual agents' offices, and push everyone to call a hotline that pushes them through to 'state farm hq' for better help. The agents are, of course, pushing back against this... and it's causing problems for everyone, typically the customer.
@@robertmaybeth3434 Dealing with state farm for a matter of life and death for a claim right now. They are criminal to an extreme it's disgusting and a nightmare.
I'm sorry you have to go through this... its one of the reasons I don't have life insurance and always refuse the salesmen. From my experience w insurance claims, I just assumed the insurance company will find some fine print or another way to wiggle out of paying, because except for auto, that is what they have always done for me in the past! @@user-gz4ve8mw9l
That's true of all the activist types. Just look at the "discriminated groups" in the UK. They receive such preferential treatment that you even dare to speak out a word against them you can and will get locked up.
Their oppression is imagined. My father was a male feminist since his childhood. He always speaks about how a “real man” never disobeys a woman, never questions a woman, never raises his voice etc. He works 7-5 to provide for my mothers extravagant lifestyle on top of doing all the house duties for her. She constantly abuses him often until he cries yet he never retaliates. However she generally thinks she’s oppressed.
Sometimes, some women do not realize that what they're asking for is preferential treatment. In their views, they think that's the equality they deserve. But I've seen some women realize that and wake up from it :)
@@vivienneb6199 But to your point….yes, women are now excelling and surpassing men….thus, wouldn’t the answer be allocate some resources, get ideas for how to get the boys and men on tract? But if you dare point out boys I’d men may need help….patriarchy, men have all the perks, etc.
As a male engineer who attended college from 2012-2017 and joined the workforce after; women were and are still a minority in engineering, but they seem to out-compete the men in the job market. My female peers seemed to have no issue getting internships and job offers, often they would receive multiple offers. Meanwhile, myself and my male colleagues usually underwent several interviews before receiving an offer.
Uaaaaauuu, here in Spain I have experienced the saaamee issue and my brother too. My dad, as a CEO, was forced to hire women due to company policies. And eventually you know companies receive public funds for hiring women. I'm amazed you realised and showed it up. Thanks bro
My Dad was an engineer and I still think the reason there are still fewer girls taking engineering degrees is because as cognitive thinkers, men just make better engineers.
This is heartbreaking and I’m seeing my young son being negatively affected by the anti-male movement in his life. The other day he was asked by a classmate to be quiet (during a classroom discussion) since he is a white male and hence wasn’t allowed to have an opinion about the abortion question. The teacher didn’t even stand up for him! It breaks my heart, especially since he is a very kind, caring and well intentioned person. Nobody deserves to be treated like this, yet the adults in the room are letting it!
Even ropes leave permanent marks on cemented wells ma'am, your son is apparently very young with an impressionable mind. YOU need to be there to ensure that he does not turn into a resentful or shy adolescent. But I'm sure you're aware of this. The father can almost always guide better. All the best.
@@MargaretCampbell583 in my age group, in western europe, late twenties to mid or third quarter thirties, i just do not see that this is true. i find it very hard to find men in couples that are doing less in the household. most to all of them share the work. do a lot in terms of domestic work etc. and in that sometimes what typically men do (the work 'outside the house, i.e., keeping house and garden in order etc., keeping cars in order etc.) is often overlooked. this aspect, that men dont do their fare share, is so 90s to me. i just do not see this in 2024 among young men who have families and wives and girlfriends...
@@AtticAurel I don't see it as a 90s thing. In my country Australia known to be very backward as mens behavior goes, they do help out and I suspect quite a few of them do a lot. i believe women should be doing the garden too, As for the car etc that usually goes to the garage these days. I can only speak for my own country I suppose which often doesn't have the best look. 😀
That is why men need to walk away from western societies. It is no longer for us but for women so let them deal with it. Men walking away from society will show these deluded feminists that men are vital for society and not only as a cheerleader for women. Men are born to build, lead and provide. If we are not able to do these things then we should simply walk away.
Fathers are SO much more than $provider.A warm loving daddy was an example to our daughter how a man truly treats a loved one & she did not need to look for Male affection in all the WRONG places.Daddys are important in every way you can imagine.
Amen to that. It gives me satisfaction to prove so that my daughter (she just turned two) has a comfortable life… but the making her giggle uncontrollably all the time… having her kind of halfway cry daddy when I have to be strict but 3 minutes later her saying “dada” and she takes my hand to go on her next greatest adventure is just all that really matters.
@@vivienneb6199 Ultimately, women initiate 70-80% of divorces. They break up the family by breaking their marriage contract. Then the corrupt, man-hating court systems make it even worse for men. If men don't want to pay for that foolishness, that is their right.
Richard Reeves "there's no evidence of discrimination against men" Also Richard Reeves "massive concerted intentional effort in public policy and massive media campaigns to break the doors down for women and no such thing for men" You ever hear the song walking contradiction by Green Day?
Absolutely we live in a society that considers men as disposable. I was going to type a full paragraph describing my rise, then sudden fall. I'll sum it up as this. I went from a husband, father of three, and pharmacist to a jobless (while trying to meet or exceed my custody time with children), homeless, ill with internal organ diseases, and ostracized by community - shell of a man. I have no purpose. I'm disabled. My ex had been combative upto 10 years post-divorce and turned my children against me. Tell me why I should give a damn about anything, especially the condition of any non-familial female. And your nauseous presumption that women are the better and more nurturing gender of parent is just reprehensible. The only thing my ex could do more than I was breastfeed. I was orders of magnitude better than her in reading our children's physical and psychological needs and attending to them.... ok, I'm depressed. Bye.
As a guy I can relate, schooling being forced down my throat with studying, exams, daily homework, sitting and writing an essay for hours felt like torture when all I wanted to do was go outside and be in the trees. After graduating from uni finally finally free but can't come to terms with sitting inside in front of a computer for most of my days. So long story short I'm a Fedex driver and like it because I get to be outside and burning energy, don't make a whole lot but can pay my bills and I'd say have some decent job security but it's fine while I'm still young.
My son is elementary age and sounds like you. We finally pulled him from public school and I quit my job to homeschool him. He hates sitting down and only wants to be outdoors. We live in Alaska so I take him outdoors as much as possible. Yesterday he was frustrated with a math lesson so I said to myself "F it! We're going outside!" Took him out and challenged him to build a fire in under 10 mins with supplies within 25 feet of our garage and only gave him 5 matches. It was so funny and fun. At bedtime, he kissed me and said "mommy I had the best school day ever. Im so proud of myself." Man, can't beat a moment like that!
They say that homework is the most unnecessary thing in the world. If you can do it, theres no need to do it. If you cant do it, you just struggle endlessly, or you do it wrong, and get used to a bad practice.
@@boese-i5g I could always do it but obviously sitting and concentrating and thinking on numbers, equations and sequences is just very tedious and not my thing. I would rather work my body then work my brain I guess.
The most demotivating thing is that you put up with this crap and then you switch university for whatever life circumstance reason and are told a ton of those courses are completely worthless and won't be transferred, this system needs to fucking die
I could pass every test AND learn the material just by memorization, especially if I was interested in the class. But I hated homework because it was excess busywork. Guess how much of a shit the system gave about me...
I was thinking the same thing, if the system works better for women and most teachers are female and the narrative pushes female empowerment then by definition there is discrimination. But let's not talk about that. This guy is pretty soy.
I was told, by a (female) professor of education, over a decade ago, the the educational system, especially in secondary school, is biased in favour of girls. Among her suggestions, similar to those put forward here, was that boys should start school one to two years later than girls and also that more males should be encouraged into teaching, both a at primary and secondary level. Her strong view was that if we continued with the status quo, this would lead to a positively dangerous situation for society, where potentially large cohorts of dissatisfied, unfulfilled, poorly educated, unemployable, angry males would rebel. Some might opine that such a situation has already been embedded in US society.
@Roy why are you denigrating men? I’ve had a couple male teachers and I loved them. Looking back I’m so glad I did. They weren’t soy boys, I don’t know why you’d even suggest such a thing.
My Dad turns 99 on 10/17; he was our rock of stability, guidance, respect, and dignity within our family unit. The value he provided to the family is immeasurable. I love him dearly.
Kind of like the vax. I was a devil for not wanting an experimental treatment. In the end I was right again but society at large tries it's best to ignore men that make the right choice.
You're not alone my man; same here. Its disorienting because its like I don't even recognize the society I live in anymore. Like I got dropped on a different planet in the middle of a random night.
@@TheHappyBachelor At this point, I just laugh at the absurdity. My money's out of their system, no debt, and no kids/wife to come at me sideways with. I plan to live as my forefathers intended.....free.
@@TheHappyBachelor can you give examples of why you feel this way? I’m trying to better understand people’s view points on here. Is this happening in your day to day life? With friends? Family? Or do you see it more on social media? Genuine question. I’m not very much on social media so I want to understand.
@@RandoHandle Leftist can legally kidnap your child at school and get their sex changed. That same kid can't get a tattoo until 18. The left is mindless and upside down.
I've been a caregiver to my father since I was in my early 20s (44 now). There was even a 6 year period where I took care of both my mom and dad. He has an anoxic brain injury and she had early-onset Alzheimer's. My mom passed away several years ago and I'm still taking care of my dad. I'm a good person and dependable but despite that women simply aren't interested in men like me. They don't need men that can do what they already excel at. That's why so few men choose to be caregivers. And yes, no one cares about us. When my mom was alive people checked in on us regularly. Since she passed we might get a visit from someone once a year (but usually not) and a call maybe twice a year. The last time someone visited our house was over a year ago, and even that was someone that had been paid to do so. We could have been dead for months and absolutely no one would know. Everyone has completely forgotten about us.
Toxic masculinity is one of the most destructive and misused terms of the modern day. All it has done is polarise people more than ever before and alienate men as their most true essence is vilified. As we can see from the pervasive degeneracy of modern culture masculinity is absolutely essential.
It just proves that women have an innate desire to shame men. When women feel they should stop using that word is like trying to put tooth paste back in the tube. To late the intentions have been revealed. Similar to the kil all men hashtag.
@Fenwick Kind of like rape culture. It was a phrase used in studies of prison gangsters and it got dragged out of the literature and slapped on average guys until it was meaningless.
@Fenwick Toxic masculinity emerged within the mythopoetic men's movement of the 1980s, it was coined by Shepherd Bliss. It was used to identify Frat bro culture and relationships between men. Feminists co-opted it a decade ago to mean something else. It was never about domestic violence which as we now know is about 50/50 male female.
I used to worked at the marketing department. There were seven women and me the lone guy. It was like I was the outcast and not privy to enjoy the girls club
I just saw your comment , I hope things are looking up. But, even if the storm hasn't passed yet, persevere. There are better times in the future. Perhaps find a way to do something positive for someone else, and if it feels good, do something for someone else, again.
When I was growing up (24 American male) I watched my manipulative mother destroy my father in a 6 year long divorce. During this time one of the two parents moved in or out of the family house 9 times. I raised by her to hate my own father. While he made mistakes, this lead to me growing up with no male role model. Every teacher minus 1 was female. In the school system there was nothing geared to interest a boy. The whole structure is heavily feminized. I grew understanding that even if you did better than a female, she may get accepted to college over you. I saw that even if both parents made mistakes, the women can be unimaginable cruel and still take everything. Lastly young men also understand dating has turned into online shopping for women and all of them chase they same 1%. I don’t think starting boys in school a year later will fix the fact that society is in deep decay. It’s bad that young are not running from marriage, rather the divorce that will almost certainly be brought against them. It’s bad young men know that the girls around them have gotten special treatment right in front of their faces while simultaneously learning class about feminism and equality. It’s bad morals that built our society have disappeared. Somehow after seeing everything in America being stacked against traditional men, many young men don’t a working women. We have seen single parent homes and the things nightmare divorces do to kids. If the prospect of having a family is gone, what else can equal that as a motive for men? One year later starting school absolutely not fix A) boys seeing girls get favorable treatment in everything B) boys seeing every role model they should have been destroyed by divorce and C) they heavily feminized school system that is based around being agreeable and memorization. Right out of high school, actually started my senior year, I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for 5 years. At the end of those 5 years I was making 14$ and hour doing an extremely difficult and dirty job while the female secretary who started a year after me was making well over $20. Sure I could have ended up making good money in that career had I stayed longer. However I looked at the mostly 50 year old men I worked with and saw miserable, divorced, physically broken humans and thought to myself, what is the point? These men will work 70+ hours a week in the hot, humid southern USA climate to get the job done and provide for kids who will hardly talk to them while paying the women who divorced him. Idk who this dude is but I’m a product of what this divorce culture does. Also I look at Chicago and I don’t believe it’s made things better that men retreated.
This guy is drivel. There is nothing very sensible about this. Societies that don't get this right will fade away as fertility will drop significantly. Already 60% of men under 30 are not in a relationship and a significant proportion are not looking to ever be in one. Your story is classic and many boys raised like this realise that what happened to dad could easily end up happening to them.
“Nobody predicted…” but plenty of academics and politicians were so sure of themselves in the first instance, and now it sounds like they’re absolving themselves of any responsibility.
Was at Teacher Training College in the late 1980s. It was obvious what was going to become of boys even then. One lecturer even encouraged us to not allow boys to ask any questions in class for fear they would dominate the discussion...
Getting rid of single sex education was a big mistake. I went to a boys grammar school on the 60's and 70's. There was no gender nonsense, almost all teachers were male, it was high energy, sporting, leant towards STEM subjects. A high percent went on to further education and with great success. I can't imagine how much worse things would be had we been a mixed sex school.
@@eleveneleven572 man it feels like a dream,this school still exist in india though just like men's only gyms,i went to a cod school but it was alright,no gender nonsense just boys being boys nd girls being girls.
Consider that a main reason men are checking out is because of the risk involved. Divorce court, family court, alimony, child support. Looking at college, considering the hyper inflation of tuition, that the debt is nondischargeable, that the odds of actualizing graduating and becoming well employed are actually pretty bad, ect. Now imagine taking on all that risk for a toxic man hating feminist that didn't save herself for marriage to say the least.
I always hear a lot of men talk about paying alimony or losing half of their assets but a lot of y’all don’t have assets to lose and alimony mostly only applies to rich people
@@michaelajames99 Some men stay poor intentionally because of this. What's the point of building a life through sacrifice if you are made to lose it at the end of it all? When you are money poor you are often time rich. That's worth something as well. That's what checking out does for you.
@@mrnice1976 no on intentionally stays poor in a capitalistic society because being poor is fatal. We all die and therefore loose everything so I want to live the best life I can rather than stunting my own success and happiness for some imagined divorce. Sounds like cope to me
@@michaelajames99 Staying poor is only fatal if you have poor health. If you have excellent health and live in a friendly climate you need surprisingly little to be happy. Some people earn money by sacrificing their health. That's a bad trade off. I value peace of mind higher than anything else in life.
Brilliant and so insightful. I have been a feminist all my adult life, worked with women and girls education for over 40 years. I have always argued that we need to work - simultaneously - with boys / men. Yes, many feminist like me agree with your point that this is not a zero-sum game; women / girls will not be safe / free / empowered unless men / boys flourished. Thank you.
Exactly.. I’m a feminist too.. and i agree..3rd wave feminism has done alot of shitty things like terfs,choice feminism and demonising everything male instead of learn good things from masculinity.. And this is a weirdly western phenomena too..rest of the world where I’m from.. women are still very enthusiastic too actually work hard and appreciate soft and caring partners.. there are countries where women are killed simply for showing stands of hair, then there are American women who are screwing up pretty bad.. worst part is, Americas owns a lot of media.. So men here often overestimate the problems and think that’s what’s going to happen here too..
@@Iamhere829it wasn’t just 3rd wave. Feminists since the beginning were radical and toxic. When they were known as the suffragettes they did assassinations and terrorist attacks. Look it up when you have the time.
It's incredible how utterly unattractive and turned off woman are by any guy who expresses vulnerability/sadness. When women say they want a sensitive man, they dont want you to be sensitive about YOUR emotions/feelings, they want you to be sensitive to THEIR emotions and feelings. There's not actually room in relationships for men to express their doubts or concerns and women just get upset about you being upset.
It depends on how completely irrational the man is being. I don't mind him expressing concerns but if a man has worse pms than any woman I've ever known then I'm gunna be turned off ya. True story Once I was dating a guy who's dad owned the company I was working for. He advertised himself as a really chill person with an upbeat attitude. Once at a company dinner we were together and I was eating of course not knowing anything was amiss. When we got home he's upset to the point of yelling and almost crying. He tells me that at the company dinner a guy was staring at HIM a lot and he felt like the guy was challenging him in some way and thr only conclusion could be that I was cheating on him with that guy. Reasons why this is illogical are obvious but become even more obvious when you add that due to losing contracts I was working for months in a building separate from almost everyone and except for that company dinner never even saw the other people that worked at the main building. It was also insulting to me because the kid he was accusing me of cheating with was 12 years younger than me a pimple faced teen. I broke up with him
@@Opal5674 men being completely irrational is a red flag for mental instability and a turn off obviously. I'm speaking more towards completely normal stuff that would be worrisome if someone wasn't emotionally effected by it.
That is very wrong. Every human being on the planet should be able to be vulnerable. I grew up with four brothers--no sisters. I can remember them struggling from time to time, but I'm glad they had one another to rely on at school when they needed support. I was the youngest and I always loved how protective they were of me. I didn't really pay attention to that until I was older and they married. I missed them so much and used to pop over to visit them when I was in college, but sadly two of my sisters-in-law thought it was strange and I had to stop visiting. One SIL actually insinuated something crazy and I realized that some wives not only push a MIL away, they are also good at severing relationships between brothers and sisters. My Sister in law won and I'm no longer invited to any family functions. I've begun to accept that some women never evolve and are bent on being a perpetual mean girl.
People need to move to be mentally normal. Sedentary people are more anxious and depressed than non-sedentary people, and people have never been more sedentary. While this is true of both sexes, I'd be willing to bet it is the most true for boys. If the average boy's day consists of being forced to sit still at school for six hours and then coming home and staying inside to play video games, then of course they can't focus.
@Fenwick I was reading your coents everywhere and you are just a troll misandrist trying to dismiss mens issue. You are saying being teenage boys having crazy amount of pent up energy and their natural tendency to not being able to sit still as their personal choice? Yes to some degree yes. But we are talking about child, teenage boys. And we are talking about structural problem of the education today that punish boys for being boys. No need to be here to dismiss mens issue if you hate men so much. Go watch some radical feminist video or something else that makes u happy
@Fenwick I wouldn’t say the same most schools where I’m from removed recess and only have lunch. That online stopped a lot of kids particularly boys to get a break of the monotony to go and play for 20 mins. I believe that positively affected boys focused because it was more balanced.
I find the entire assessment between the gaps in education and employment types massively dishonest. It wasn't some organic system of girls/women catching up, the entire system was revamped in order to encourage them and gave them special consideration across the board. You can easily see this when you pick up a booklet for scholarships and see how many of them boys qualify for and how many girls do. Then you have to take into consideration the strong anti male sentiment that is riddled all throughout non stem field related education. One thing that no one seems to be talking about is how the push for Student debt loan forgiveness is basically an attempt to transfer money from blue collar males to university educated women. Women owe 70%+ of all student loans and allowing any form of tax payer funded relief is just men paying for women's choices indirectly since men pay 66% of all tax revenue already. Feminism hasn't been about equality since the 60s, its now just a catchy slogan for any and all things ranging from mundane complaints falsely assumed to be sexism to gerrymandering entire education systems in order to enrich select groups. You will never see a situation where the potential to be a victim exists and feminists choice to not engage or take the high road.
19:29 Guy says no one was saying that. In correct. In my school women teachers were constantly telling me since I was in early elementary school that I would amount to nothing, and that there's something wrong with me. They would also mark my assignments wrong when they were right. I kept some early math assignments, and tests to remind myself. In engineering now so thankfully it didn't completely ruin me, but I definitely had to go up against it constantly.
I respect your experience and think these teachers are vile and evil but keep in mind that girls also face these things not necessarily from their schools but from the environment around them. Ask any woman around and she can tell you how in childhood they’re constantly told to forego their dreams and focus on getting married.
@@rrrggg5267 No woman in the west was told this unless you're from a very religious family. Also many women's dreams are a family, it's not forgoing it. The notion that there's some kind of greater sense of purpose in grinding out your life as a gear in the machine instead of having a family is absurdity.
66, once considered myself a feminist, progressive. At the 2017 Women's March I heard a lot of "men are the problem" speech, not "some me". WTF? That was it for me. I currently don't speak to women, make eye contact, unless I have to for some business reason. I'm polite, don't hate women, but happy to not interact. This is not my fight. I do agree this issue is caused by many men. Planning now to move to SE Asia.
The thing with bringing up these issues especially around other women is that someone raising these issues means your an “incel” and anti women. It’s not about undoing what we have done for women about equality across the board. Men are told to speak up but when we do it’s toxic masculinity or misogynistic.
I’ve been in a relationship for three years now and every time I try to talk about this topic the default response is that I’m just an insane loser who hates women and can’t get laid. Pathetic
Hi. It’s not toxic or incel-y thing at all. I believe it should be talked about and we should raise awareness about the struggles than men are going through. However, the main issue is a lot of people are just like the other side of the misandrists who call themselves feminists. Take a look at the comment section and you’ll get what I mean. People here are truly misogynistic and they’re no much different than the misandrists they oppose.
@@230mps If men didn't worry about getting laid, almost all society's problems would fix themselves. That's why orders like The Knights Templar wanted their members to be chaste, so they couldn't get pussy-whipped out of their morals.
Yep being a male is often felt as evil. I remember that as a kid and I'm in my 30's now. I find in many ways with the outline of the issues presented here it's a real. Duhh moment that men lash out in suicide. When many of the signals say men aren't needed anymore. ( I believe an unattended consequence, at rebalancing social norms)
He says there is no intentional discrimination against boys in education… But if you’re aware that a disparity exists that should not exist and you choose to do nothing to fix it, wouldn’t that make it intentional discrimination?
Thank you for all this amazing info. I am raising two boys and society is changing so much. I want them to be the best they can be for themselves and all the people around them. These discussions help so much to keep us up to date.
Discussion is good but this guy seems to think it has all happened in a vacuum and that no one knew what the consequences would be and also that there wasn't a deliberate attempt to destroy families and men by some. Maybe some of them didn't know but they never stopped to think of the negative outcomes. I'm not sure that someone who denies the above factors is capable of constructing a robust solution that wouldn't fail again.
34:24 That's a myth. Female employment was never 0%, women were working in factories for as long as there have been factories, especially factories that automated historically female jobs. Only upper middle class and upper class women had the luxury of not working, in case of the latter many were "professional socialites" and investors like their men. The idea that women didn't work before Feminism is a myth propagated by Feminism to raise its own importance. A poor family in the 1950's or 1940's couldn't and wouldn't survive on one breadwinner, usually grand-parents took care of children while both parents worked. If a man became unemployed due to a work accident it also wasn't rare for the wife to be the sole breadwinner.
This is a great podcast episode. Espcially since im a Father of 2, one boy and one girl. On top of that, I coach Youth as well, which has lead me to start thinking on all these things on my own, its great to hear discussion on it. Thanks CW, been loving the content.
The answer is no. Im an exec in behavioral healthcare and just about no major company is doing anything specifically for men and boys. There are hundreds of programs for girls, women, bipoc, lgbt, etc but very few that address mens needs. It's causing a gap and if someone was to bring it up they'd be ostracized. It's maddening
I don’t need society. Society needs me. I fix problems all day long don’t need thanks. There is no ego in that statement. I get respect by not looking for it. My girl was driving me crazy until she realised that while I love her I don’t need her.
I’m a fellow of the royal academy of engineers. Currently their is massive focus on encouraging more women into the industry. However we are at circa 25%. Which happens to be the apparent equilibrium reach in recognised countries like Sweden. What I think is being completely ignored is encouraging young males into the industry. As such rather than encouraging all genders it is becoming biased. To discuss this obviously attracts criticism of being sexist, however I think it is recognising many of the issues you have addressed. Males have sometimes a less fearful attitude to risk which can be a benefit as well as a disadvantage.
When he says around 19.00 that there is no discrimination against boys/men isn’t he kind discounting the fact that there are all kinds of quota that dictate to prefer women for university/job spots?
Paul Elam discussed how therapy is often dominated by women, and often sucks for men. Men are often told not to talk about their feelings, but not being able to vent has explosive results. Dr. Helen Smith also observed problems with men and psychology. She wrote "Men On Strike" when she encountered a man being beaten by his wife, and lacking proper care.
The insight about how men and women differ in their views of the mutability of the person and that person’s environment is brilliant. Hits the nail on the head.
All educational practices have shifted toward women. 1. Loosely or informally defined tasks 2. Group tasks/discussions 3. Mandatory woke subjects injected into STEM degrees (mostly females agree with woke politics) 4. Shift from understanding, toward work (tests -> assignments) 5. Shift from reasoning, toward rote memorization Autists are the canary in the coalmine in these aspects. If education were taking autism inclusiveness seriously, they would also solve the male/female educational success discrepancy. Yes, I do think at least a large minority of autism-diagnoses are simply extremes of male psychological features. A symptom of this is Agreeableness (big-5 trait) correlates positively with grades, while it has historically correlated negatively with career success. We used to think talk is cheap, but in education it's a huge advantage.
The real issue is that going to College is the default. It should only be for those who are intellectually superior, male or female. This used to be the case and now going to college is the expectation.
I disagree, im from europe where higher education is free and i could go to Uni and support myself along the way. I think whole world is better with educated people, id rather have educated plumbers with art degrees, or electricians that studied history. Those people live in different communities and can provide a lot of insight to everyone around them lifting everyone up. Ofc you can go through skill training and just do the work, and youll be good at it. But if you do more, life does have more colors to it. Just my take.
@@kamiladamczyk2469 on the other hand society will demand from you certifications of education for the most absurd jobs, so increasingly you end up having to spend sums of money, for useless formations and other burocratic bs. If i want to make videos and charge for that i only have to learn how to use software to learn video editing, i dont need a full degree in marketing or some other bs, yet thats how it is now.
@@kamiladamczyk2469 now you go work on a factory and they demand you a education formation to use a fork lifter, something you learn to use in 5 min and then get used to it. Its ridiculous and castrating imo, at the end of the day its just another business for state schools of labour to charge money for useless courses.
@@BorisMarques14.88 Junk I know. Paying for useless shit that you will never use and eventually stop caring about. Sounds like the new American dream. Consume ou useless eaters, consume!
I can personally attest to gaming saving my life. I think you hit the nail on the head, the technology came just when we needed it. Thank you so much guys, this was a very informative podcast
I know enough about the topic (despair, depression and video games - sounds like a movie) to agree w y ou, but HOW did they save your life? And which games? And what about them saved you? I truly want to know!
@@robertmaybeth3434 an escape into another world where you can matter, you are respected for your skill which you can improve. you are given a way to be social even if you don’t have very many friends
I’m currently a student I’m busy with 8th grade,I’ve recently written a research paper for school underlining the reasons to why teens are so impulsive for my science project I did conclude the prefrontal cortex situation ,myelin sheets etc what I’m trying to say is that with the education system male teenage behaviour is punished example disagreeableness and we know that disagreeable boys get worse grades (but disagreeable adult males make more money)And female teenage behaviour like agreeableness consciousness is praised and also with more female teachers at play teenage boys are told to shut up and do their work so I do see teenage boys performing less than teenage girls and brain development is crucial for teenage behaviour so what we need is for the education system to be aware of this and to teach boys how to control their impulsiveness and stuff like that and how cater to all genders instead of just one gender.
I wonder if it’s about brain development or socialization. Girls are expected to act a certain way from a young age but very little is expected of boys. Congrats on writing your research paper, I hope that interests continues as you get older. Good luck kid 😊
Also…there is the culture that male behavior is “toxic”. Disagreeableness, assertiveness, and impulsiveness are necessary human behavioral qualities. Under certain circumstances, being agreeable, and conformist is unhealthy. It’s the belief that we all should strive to act feminine.
Having more male teachers is infinitely more important than having more women pilots or in STEM fields. Yet there are numerous programs and initiatives to encourage women into these fields, I don't see the same drive to get males into teaching, more evidence that we're living in a gynocentric society
Sure ..... having male teachers that are acceptable to the current education administrations. I can almost guarantee it will be mostly males without a trace of masculinity and not veteran former marines. I very much doubt boys will benefit from having the male teachers "progressives" prefer.
Men don't go into poorly paid professions unless they have no other option......pilots are paid infinitely more. It is not the distortion of the societal conditioning but the reward system which is skewed. If teaching was paid on pair with investment banking.....
I'm glad this guy is defending boys/men, but in a way I think he's part of the problem. He's being too reticent on the differences between men and women. Not acknowledging general biological trends and statistics is what causes all of this trouble. The notion that men and women are the same and they should somehow be 50/50 in all professions, or even in job participation in general, feeds these societal problems.
Loved this conversation man! As a 34 year old man, I accidentally came across this video. And it's one that is perfect timing for me, and for society as a whole. Great guest, great rapport, and a delve into topics that need to be discussed. Too much ignorance in the world from feminism to toxic masculinity. And this swiftly cuts through that bullshit/noise etc. We as a society must acknowledge how important men are to children and women, to that discussed point of feminism is being granted what they are fighting for. Men deserve fighting for now too. It will be interesting to see how the socioeconomic landscape changes over the next few years. Thanks for this discussion. Have that woman on like Richard Reeves mentioned!
The phrase ‘toxic’ masculinity should not be allowed to be uttered until we can also equally recognise the destruction of toxic femininity - which will never happen in MMS. Or we could dump both terms, stop treating all men, women, races or religions as a monolith, but rather acknowledge that in the aggregate men and women are vulnerable to unique character pathologies due to the unique ways our temperaments develop.
Thank you both 😊 One aspect you could've discussed more perhaps was 'have men become less useful as they've been replaced, in part, by the state/government?' Using Rob Henderson's luxury beliefs idea, female economic independence only really exists for very successful women not necessarily the average or lower socioeconomic groups who rely on societal intervention to varying extents (child support, social housing, etc.). Furthermore, the data shows that kids from two parent households do better than single parent homes. Ergo, fatherhood, must (in some cases) be about more than just economics and/or protection. So men flourishing can help women too, not all women e.g., misandrists, and if feminism is about choice, not supremacy, then isn't that a cogent reason to try and get both men and women to flourish (the point you kind of finished on)?
I do agree that some things that are expected of men have been replaced by the state but I would say that children are able to “do better” because of access to opportunity rather than a two parent household. I would guess that on average people who are single parents make less money and therefore have less to spend on providing opportunities.
I would wager that a kid growing up in a household making 200k with a father and mother versus one making 200k with just a mother - the one with two would be much better off. Parents (fathers) are more than just a paycheck. More money after a certain point doesn’t matter that much.
They salted the soil and have women believing that men are evil by the time they fall out of the womb. To me, it feels like women flipped a switch and started hating me over night because of my gender. That's what all of this feels like. I remember I had a really close female friend from highschool. After HS, she all of a sudden started making posts that vilify and ridicule men and I was just like where is all this coming from??? Am I a part of these men too, even though I was a great friend to you? It makes zero sense. It's the definition of "who hurt you" and it reminds me of CORFing, "cutting off reflected failure". The good men that were in their life they took for granted and pretended didn't exist. Of course that will be spun around to seem like it's our fault, even though there is an obvious stigma against being nice as a man, which makes no sense, my grand mother raised me on, "be kind, not nice". Problem is collective IQ has dropped and people don't even know there is a difference between the two anymore or the meaning behind the phrase.
I am a school counselor and we have 4 women counselors at the high school, 3 at the middle school, 2 each at the lower elementaries, but anytime we we had a chance to have 2 male counselors in my upper elementary building, people said you can’t have 2 men.
54:40 The "protector rôle" was already taken over by the state in ancient times, fathers actually are proven to have a positive effect on both sons and daughters and in the case of girls teenage pregnancy and lower academic success is actually correlated with fatherlessness, these effects are worse in sons.
Are we going to deal with the reality of what happens when we reach our 30s & 40s? Like how the motivation to work over 40 hrs drops dramatically in women? It doesn't matter how many male / female scientists we have graduating college; it matters who's making the strides in R&D, venture capitalism, etc. Yup: men...
Or how about the fact that we are currently undergoing a doctor shortage because of system propping female doctors up. This in turn leads to them working for a 1-4years before finding mr right (another doctor) who will support her lifestyle of being a stay at home mom. They literally quit after they get pregnant because of this we don't have enough actual doctors staying in the field. John Glenn women don't want to work. The majority of them have been polled as wanting to be stay at home moms, not working. They want to be in the home and taking care of kids. Its only because of all the propaganda used on all of us at a young age have they been brainwashed into thinking they need to be a independent woman who don't need no man. They realize it later that they don't really want it. We have all been sold a lie.
@@TheFirstTriplefife This is also a lie. I work in STEM and my bestie is a Doctor. She already had a 7 yo but at the time of COVID, se lost her second baby to miscarriage owing to extreme pressure. Last year she had her second baby and took a break. This year she joined again. Taking small 6 month breaks doesnt mean women are dropping out. Women outnumber men in medicine. You are simply delusional. We arent happy to stay at home and raise the kids. We want both.
@@manifest2203 anecdotal evidence. It doesn't prove much except for a situational view point. Polling and other data points direct me towards what I know as being more realistic. I could also use anecdotal evidence. I had two neibors that were doctors. Both worked together at the same hospital. The wife ended up retiring fairly early to be a stay at home mom. I have a literal real life example. It does prove im right though, only data points can provide info on the general trends. As some self reported stem type you should know this.
38:40 Men actively get attacked by both men AND women, companies prefer female H.R. because that helps with their "diversity" statistics, regarding men in care there is always a scare that men will abuse the people they're taking care of, despite only a very small amount of them being abusive and this number not being that different from female abusers.
The problem with getting people to care about men's issues is summed up precisely in the Richard's closing statement: "to help women to flourish, and kids to flourish, we need to help men to flourish as well." This paints men's issues as being primarily important due to their second-order impact on the only gender that actually matters, women. Because what that statement ultimately implies is that if women and kids were not impacted by the problems men face, then there's no reason to care.
Everyone has their struggles. Not everyone is graced with assistance from others to facilitate getting through them. Sometimes we just have to find our own way and grow through them on our own. Scary that, having to be responsible for one's own destiny, and not always having access to help. At 72, this is still one of my own struggles. At times I wish for having a conversation with someone who has been down the road I'm on, and can inform me of a few signposts. But at this late stage I'm finding that kind of personality in this insane world is virtually impossible to encounter. I must content myself with working with the knowledge and wisdom I've attained. I'm at that age where anyone who might have greater insight is going senile. Yet our destiny is in our own hands. When I divorced my wife, I started attending divorce anonymous. I hoped that I would find a little bit of camaraderie, some occasional insightful wisdom, and the energy to move through that phase positively. The group was dominated with females of course, and upon voicing a few of my concerns and difficulties, I was approached by two men who felt like I could help them through their own struggles. One was very anxious and intense. I had to tell them both that I was looking for my own answers too, that I had not the ability to guide them to a successful resolution of their own. Everybody was drowning in the aftermath of divorce, looking for that anchor to get above water and breathe--lose their fears of the future. I cared and wanted to help, but I did not want to pull others under in the process because of my own condition. Counseling (aka "therapy") was of no use whatsoever. Growing pains are much easier for the young to handle, yet a permanent fact of life.
Thanks for sharing that. I admit I was a bit oblivious to the troubles mature men could experience after a divorce. My parents are divorced and my father emotionally absent (though physically involved in our lives) and I feel I was sort of primed to think "men don't have feelings, just urges". Allow me some artistic freedom with the above phrase. I hope you get what I mean. Anyway, you opened my mind a bit. Thank you.
What a fantastic conversation, 👍 very deep and out of the box thinking, LOVE IT. ❤️ As a mum with a son and daughter THANK YOU. ☺️ Chris Williamson you are my favourite podcast on TH-cam now, you dig deep in to things, not just say the same black and white topics that are on here all the time. Keep up the fantastic work, it's very much appreciated 👍😊
I strongly disagree with you madam, about out of the box conversation , and also about depth of it.Whhat i see here is two depradessed man talking a same story from slightly different angle, and not saying anything really new.And that is actually depressing 😊
Yea... sorry Chris he was okay but weak in comparison to other discussions. He is viewing his information through a pretty thick feminist lens that he isn't even aware of. Thank you for different perspective.
@@Yomel123 Women aren't equal to men, that's WHY we are not treated equally. The whole concept is stupid. And on the second account, the reason we have feminism is to rationalize equal labor force participation. It's a psyop
I agree there's no "explicit" discrimination against boys. But just like with how women in the 70s and 80s, there was no explicit discrimination getting education but they still didn't do as great as men yet we describe their experience as discrimination. Why are you trying to excuse how boys are being misguided? Richard Reeves, let's pray your boys won't un-alive themselves with how much of a "caring" attitude you have for boys/men.
The studies showed female teachers mark male students more harshly but if he remove the genders and names the marks are similar in girls and boys proving an inherent bias to make down boys
@Fenwick They got so much sympathy that men made laws to protect women, to give them opportunities, etc. How uneducated are you to not know how history has showed that men have always prioritiezed the safety of women?
@Fenwick I have seen you comment on almost every post with quite harsh feminist rhetoric. This merely furthers the argument that feminists like you want supremecy and revenge, not equality.
No explicit discrimination against boys? In a recent study the marks of boys improved by 30% when the female teachers were made to check unnamed copies of the students. Talk about explicit
@@John__-ie3od Don"t forget women got the vote without a reciprocal requirement. In order to vote men have to make themselves available for military service and risk dying in war if so decided. In the US men are obliged to register for Selective Service - from which register names are pulled for the draft - upon turning eighteen. If they refuse to register part of the punishment is to lose their right to vote, be imprisoned for five years, fines up to $250,000, a lifelong ban from working Federal jobs and other benefits often including driving licences, among others. Nothing like that for women; they can simply start voting when they turn eighteen.
To give the Richard his dues, I think he's right on boys starting later at school. That said, the man doesn't speak to me or for me - If the answer given is for men to be more like women, I'm not interested in it. And so much of this interview was that, and just a real feminist bent. I think the bit that crystalised it, was when he said women's liberation has been great for women with real side effects (not negative, just real). We'll see if the gap for over 30's women being childless goes the same way it has with education. I think it probably will. He can chat about Afghanistan and how they need to do more for women, I've much greater confidence that that will endure than the experiment we're running in the west. I don't know, I just found this really bleak, especially at the end when the takeaway is think how much worse it could have been without videogames and adult entertainment. Great. I'll make sure to thank the demons on my back before bed.
Yeah this guy was a bit jarring to me, he evidently agrees with pretty much everything feminism proposes and the only reason he is concerned about some aspects now is because the negative effects are becoming this obvious. And as a result his position and solutions come of very incoherent, especially the entertainment bit or how a society can surely just all go into the service industry, who needs industry anyway since we can all clearly see right now that dependecies don't get exploited and trade routes are undistruptable. And I always have and will find the premise very mechanistic and cynical, that women or people generally are only judged on how capable in life they are or how happy and fullfilled they could be by how much economic opportunity they have. It's just line-go-up mentality
The IQ verse EQ debate in the business world has slated work culture towards women. I experienced this and documented this in a fortune 100 corporation during my Masters. As more and more women were promoted aggressively into management, Culture changed to favor feminine gender stereotypic traits.
Huh? I work in corporate (for 25+ years) and I don't see the EQ going up. All that happens are workshops, talk, talk, talk and then you go back to your desk, same old, same old.
Mindful of this video, I looked at the staff list on the website of the primary school in north east England that I attended around 40 years ago. Out of 33 listed staff, including lunchtime supervisors etc, 2 are men. One is a teacher and the other is the caretaker. You can make of that what you will but, if that list only contained a couple of token women, there would be huge multi million pound government led campaigns centred around the recruitment of more women. When the staff are all women, no-one seems to care about that imbalance.
Thankfully the schools I attended in the 90s was about 50/50 so yes much better. Still remember some of the female teachers being against me, but unlike male students today. I can say high school was some of the best years of my life: like the show The .O.C 😊
I was SUCH a tomboy at school and what he said about impulse control and "sensation seeking" explains so much about why I struggled at school... if there were a programme available when I was that age, I'd defo be the one girl in a class of boys 😂
“I don’t see any active discrimination against boys,” but they are redesigning Aircraft for woman and they have changed vocational education test and exams to suit women.
I purchased the book after hearing u speak on TH-cam a few weeks ago. Thank you!!! I can’t tell you how this makes me feel. I can tell you with certainty now that I my masculinity is more bad than not. Like original sin. That construct needs to go as well. I’m turning 60 in a month and have been on disability since I was 40. I can’t even tell you how being a male on disability makes you feel and ur wife works full time. But I had to do odd jobs under the table on a regular basis because disability didn’t pay well. I’m now out of the closet and it’s worse in this culture. Men want to know what u do for work…🤓
As a man in my 20s this is the most depressing podcast I've ever watched. I was seeking answers but all I got is confirmation of my worries. As a man, I have to be financially ahead of men and women who are 10 years ahead of me and still have the life of a guy in his 20s. It is just a giant mountain of expectations with little to no upside by the end.
Guys are not going to do anything unless it will get respect from women. College just makes men an equal. So men either quit the game, try their best, or quit society and let women carry the stress of the workforce. These things are not social constructs. A man instinctively does not want to be at home nursing children. A return to prioritizing the family over women and men's self-actualization is the only way through this.
I'm glad the subject of videogames' effect was brought up, because as an avid (and female) gamer myself, I'm very tired of games being blamed for everything from mass shootings and sexism to young men's passivity. I'm a graduate in game development, and the vast majority of my fellow students were perfectly well-rounded individuals who engaged in healthy and social activities other than gaming. I play online multiplayer games with guys I from my martial arts group. I've also been asked by a mother who was completely mystified by game development if her son was game addicted. I told her that game sessions can take longer than she might expect, and that as long as her son wasn't neglecting other activities and friends due to them, he likely wasn't addicted. I hope she believed me. At this point, I think it would be really useful to create some kind of resource, like a documentary or a book that demystifies videogames for parents and general laymen, because there's much more to them than it might seem from the outside looking in.
Ok this is like someone from the porn industry telling a parent not to worry about their sons using porn. And pretty disingenuous when you know how free to play game design works. It's deliberate addiction. If you don't know about this there are plenty of industry whistleblowers who can inform you.
@@gilgamecha I wasn't being disingenuous, but I'll admit that I did oversimplify it for brevity. I was addressing the negative stereotypes about gamers and that parents don't tend to know how long a normal gaming session may be. I'm not trying to sell any games, and the ones I've worked on aren't predatory, or aimed at kids. Yes, especially online multiplayers and MMOs are designed to be addictive and therr's a huge problem with very unethical monetization in the industry. That's a whole other issue in and of itself, but not what I was talking about. It IS, however, part of the reason I would like some sort of educational material about it that's easily understood by parents and legislators that don't know the first thing about gaming. Until the publishers that push these things are stopped from doing so, the best thing to do is to educate parents about these practices. All I'm really asking for is do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are plenty of games, most of them from smaller indie studios, that aren't predatory and have merit. But even the games that are of the type discussed can be played in a healthy way by those who know how to navigate the greedy publishers. Because make no mistake, it's almost always the publisher that wants these things in their games, not those who are actually making the game.
Bravo gents! 💯 The maturity and momentum building in critical discussions on struggling men and boys' is so encouraging. I appreciate and respect both of you for the great care, intelligence, and wisdom you bring to the debate. Keep up the great work! Just an observation from me. Please, let me know what you think. The great paradox of the 'toxic masculinity' rubbish, and probably the most difdicult obstacle to overcome for 'struggling' men and boys, is the role of what I will term 'destructive femininity'. Yes, I'm going there. It's a sensitive, near unapproachable issue, but its real and it's hurting men and boys enormously. We must face it with sensitivity, courage and conviction. When we refer to men and boys 'struggling' in certain areas of life, such as education, the employment market, etc, we are careful to identify potential solutions as being within the realm of individual men and boys. However, in my experience, the various programs and campaigns developed to promote gender equality, to empower women and girls, often manifest on the ground, at least in part, as discrimination against, and even oppression of, men and boys. This is, I believe, deliberate and the result of unhelpful, radical, and/or malevolent actors in the sectors, administrative bodies, services delivery organisations, NGOs, etc, that end up delivering the programs and campaigns. The great paradox of this 'toxic masculinity' rubbish is that similarly destructive, dysfunctional elements of feminist identity and/or culture have been promoted, funded, and actively deployed, focussing as much on undermining and diminishing men and boys as promoting and empowering women and girls. The binary absolutism in the domestic violence sector (demonising innocent men, utterly ignoring victimised men, and granting unconditional, inappropriate relief from accountability/responsibility for manipulative, violent, and/or abusive women) is the most obvious, extreme example of 'destructive' feminist forces at play. The one sentence summary, the elephant in the room that everyone is afraid to point out, is this: toxic femininity is real, it is active and empowered in our communities, and it is having increasingly destructive impacts in the lives of men and boys and the broader social fabric. It feels impossible to even approach the issues, let alone develop and progress solutions. But for the sake of 'struggling' men, boys, and their communities, we've got to engage with it and try to move forward. We all have roles to play. Well-funded, politically connected, and sufficiently motivated men and women, along with women leaders in relevant sectors, administrative bodies, and service delivery organisations, should be leading the way. But everyone is conspicuously silent. Worse, they're all lining up in totalitarian conga lines that increasingly resemble the horrible, dystopian communist experiments from last century. Anyhow, would love to hear your thoughts on the issues above. Once again, keep up the great work! Matt
Oh, and the same unaccountable, incorruptible feminist elements are hard at work in other areas too. For example, disability insurance schemes folles out around the world in the last 20 years or so are more about securing ongoing, multi-billion dollar annual budgets to fund the creation and maintenance of the female-dominated disability care sector than the needs of people with a disability. The same approach, or similar variant, has been applies in all female-dominated sectors. Health and education are the oldest and most entrenched regimes, but aged care, mental health, early childhood, etc, have all fallen like dominoes. It's like clockwork in Australia. Some massive campaign/lobbying of govt occurs over the course of a few years. Some crisis requiring billions to address. They build the evidence-base along the way, usually from a real but relatively minor baseline, into a menacing, urgent crisis/emergency. Sure enough, result is massive new funding regime for a particular female-dominated sector, timelines, plans, etc. During the activist/lobbying period, female-dominated organisations, NGOs, etc, had been lining up their ducks, congregating and occupying the business space where the interventions were intended to occur. So, announcements made, funding flows, and the primary benefits, funding, economic impact, manifests for female-led businesses, organisations, workers, etc, in the sector. Not for the people/issue for which the funding was allocated. Furthermore, homeless are largely older men. Feminists lobby for funding for POTENTIAL flood of homeless women. Who gets funding? POTENTIAL homeless women, not ACTUAL homeless men. Suicides are largely men. Feminists lobby for funding for young women, generate a false or misleading narrative around mental health. Who gets SUICIDE funding? Young women who aren't even committing suicide, not older men who ARE in droves. Repeat as nauseum. Any views? From a low resolution, critical view of capitalism, I don't have a problem with it at all. The exploitative, disgusting gravy train of capitalist corporate/govt actors for many decades, since the industrial revolution, has had economic/fiscal implications infinitely more unfair and inequitable than historically disadvantaged groups like women, carers, immigrants, etc, recently securing long-overdue slice of the pie. Buuuuut, there is a stench of corruption, criminal conspiracy, and, pertinent to this subject, active victimisation of out-groups like working class men, disabled people, etc. Is toxic femininity real? Or is it just the corresponding female corruption to that of male corruption in the corporate world? It feels like a bargain between them actually. Deliberate, calculated outcomes. Rich elite agree to bigger slice of pie for historically disadvantaged 'minority' groups, who happen to make up the majority of voters. Women, more than half the vote, somehow qualify as a minority group, and draw in all the other ACTUAL minority groups like disabled people, elderly, immigrants, LGBTI, etc Working class men in western countries have been getting slaughtered for decades and nobody cares. It's by design.
@@greensmurf221 Yeah, it's systemic and endemic. They basically strut around marking their territory and patting themselves on the back for bringing down the patriarchy one man at a time.
I'm a guy and I started school a year early. So I graduated when I was 17. Ive had lots of issues post high school. I'm realizing it was a disadvantage to be started a year early especially considering I was a shy kid to begin with.
Great points made, particularly that a difference does not imply discrimination. This is crucial for all of the woke activists, victim-identity advocates, SJWs. Differences are worth discussing, but until discrimination is found, a difference is a point of interest, not a justification to eradicate social institutions or give handouts. It is a total failure of logic to see difference and assume that "equity" is the solution. For K-12 education, we're talking about a female-dominated institution. That means classrooms are mostly led by females who innately understand (and sympathise with) female behaviour, even without the politics of labelling male behaviour as "toxic". That's relevant. Students seem better able to identify with a teacher of the same sex. Schools are historically static - children in rooms being passively educated. The exploratory nature of children, especially boys, disadvantages them in static environments. And rather than accepting the exploratory nature of boys as innate, it's pathologised as an attention deficit. If schools were changed to more interactive and dynamic, it would likely favour boys to the disadvantage of girls. I hadn't heard about the proposal for staggered starting ages for boys and girls. It seems like it would narrow certain gaps, especially in pre-pubescent children, but may also create social issues during the pubescent years. I think that the way forward is that curriculae have a core co-ed component, a single sex component, and free electives, with heavier weighting for the first two. It may also be better to have multiple ways of assessment, with weighting adjusted per student for their stronger results. This would reduce gaps for people who don't test well, or don't do planned assignments well, etc. My other idea has long been that we end age cohorts, notwithstanding the staggered starting point that was mentioned. But competence in each subject should be the deciding factor in advancement. I would divide the scholastic year into two semesters where advancement can take place. That doubles the opportunities to advance, doubles the opportunities to identify falling short, and removes the stigma of not moving ahead after any given semester.
Shallow guest, and surprisingly uninformed. Example: women earn more than men, not less, in an apples to apples comparison. The 'gap' is explained by such things as women choosing to work fewer hours, choosing to have and raise kids, and choosing less well-paying, less risky, more people-oriented jobs, e.g., social worker vs. millwright. When this guest got that wrong, it made me wonder about his other views. That said, Chris, you did your best to extract the lemonade from this lemon.
What Richard said about the education system being setup to favor girls reminds me of the fact that I always felt like the girls in my classes were always able to become engaged in the mundane tasks and therefore perform better than the guys. The only other thing that I noticed though is if the girl is too busy being worried about getting attention (from guys) in some fashion they tend to actually do just as bad at focusing on those tasks as the guys in my class, those girls especially in high school I could tell depended on another person usually a man to provide their every being, this might be based but i spent a lot of time with my older brother when he was in highschool and I was just starting middle, all the girls in highschool looked like Women to me, fast forward to my senior year and it felt like I was seeing children looking for constant attention from daddies that they didint have and Boy's looking for some short term gratification because up until this point most of them have done absolutely nothing that they find meaningful and their almost 25% through with their life.
A key issue with the phrase “toxic masculinity” is that the meaning is not clear, perhaps intentionally. Does it mean toxicity that arises in men, whatever the cause, or that there is something toxic about masculinity itself (which men as a group are impliedly responsible for)? The former is conceptually reasonable - you can separate toxic behaviour from its causes (which could be social factors, prior abuse or neglect where women as well as men may have had a part to play). The latter is an unfounded conclusion and seems a lot like victim blaming. This twist allows people to use the term in a slippery way - directing unfounded blame while pretending not to and failing to address root causes.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This episode is fascinating. Enjoy. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:20 Origin of ‘Toxic Masculinity’
04:20 Why Women Are Told to be More Masculine?
11:30 The Decline of Men in Education
20:24 Gap Between Male & Female Teachers
27:27 Solutions for the Education Imbalance
32:14 Why are Men leaving the Labour Market?
46:36 Expanding the Role of Fatherhood
58:48 The ‘Checked-out’ Men
1:04:48 Men’s Rights Vs Women’s Rights
1:13:04 Where to Find Richard
Thanks 🙏👍
I think it's incredibly difficult for young men these days to navigate society and the fact that you and others like Jordan Peterson are out there offering guidance is fantastic. There is a huge need for support on both sides (all sides) for young people, especially in this ever increasing society of high visibility. Loved this episode ❤️
Why is skill based progression never discussed in education? Grade levels are just assumed.
Another fantastic conversation Chris! Your show is easily in my top 3 favorite list. On this topic have you touched on any of Warren Farrell’s work and to expand out on that the work of Robert Bly? Granddaddies of the contemporary men’s movement and opened my mind up to all Thai that you are researching and talking about.
Link for episode 538?
I have been a engineering middle school teacher for 13 years in a very affluent, Massachusetts town, and I can tell you absolutely you guys are correct. I was told multiple times per year that I should put up more pictures of girls in my room, I should encourage more girls to become engineers and scientist, and that the girls were in a deficit and needed to be pushed forward, many times at the expense of the boys, but that was never said outright. when I brought up the statistics about the 60/40 split educational attainment I was either told that I was wrong I was misinformed, or it just fell on deaf ears. Almost all the teachers in the school are female, and the whole culture of the school and educational system is very female, feminine oriented. If the boys can’t sit still and do their work, they are medicated or disciplined. The male energy always seem to be the problem and no one thinks about how to capitalize on it and use it to educate boys, they are continually talk to act more like girls, so they’re easier for the educational system to handle.
There's a big push here in
Australia to get more girls in construction jobs. No high paying or high status male job is safe. (Construction pays very well here.) Meanwhile, female dominated jobs are ring-fenced from male intrusion.
I teach elementary engineering, and my curriculum is tilted towards male interests; fighter jets, cars, huge bridges and dams, etc. The kids love it, both boys and girls. I'm the first male teacher these kids have, and I'm the best teacher in the building. If the kids love you, you can teach anything, and nobody will get in the way.
You teach in Stoughton?
@@taylorc2542 Yeah my students loved me too and I wasn't invited back to teach the summer program b/c of internal politics, the parents, and the administration. Sadly, the students loving you is not enough.
Exactly. There can also be both a rise in group a (girls) & a drop in group b (boys). Who's betting the drop in boys' performance & rise in school exclusion coincides nicely with increased fatherlessness & effeminisation of education (eg low discipline)?
“Men are being erased, women most affected”
LoL 😂
oh they will be once they need something fixed or built. Women will never replace men in such jobs. Think it's viable to expect more women to become auto mechanics, construction workers, A/C repairman, and carpenters, and technicians so you can finally erase those evil white men? If you think so, you are delusional. These jobs are more or less men only, because women don't want them and can't do them. This is not "sexism" it is biology, and there's not one thing anybody can do to reverse the situation.
I’ve worked in HR organisational development for over 15 years, mostly leadership, culture and high-perfomance. The field is so anti-male that I’m exploring leaving the field. When I was running my own business, I was repeatedly told (“off the record”) that organisation decision makers wouldn’t work with male consultants. As an employee, I’ve literally been declined work many times “we all think you’d be perfect for the role but our team is all female and we are concerned that they might feel uncomfortable with a man in the team”. Technically illegal though in practice not, I’ve explored legal recourse, yet it’s impossible to prove as it’s always verbally over the phone, so no action can reasonably be taken.
I recently interviewed for a role and during the interview learned the organisation of 1,600 was 72% female, female CEO and 80% female executive. When I asked about top priorities, I was told “We still have so much more to do to advance woman at work.” I genuinely asked “Given (the stats), would you please help me understand what success looks like?” That was clearly the undiscussable topic and taboo question and the job killer.
It’s religion man.
What I just refuse to believe is that women are actually better at anything when you take out mediocre women who get degrees that don’t really lead to any skills. The thing that women do have is an ability to work the systems which appears to favor them. That level of favoritism is illegal. Who wouldn’t want to go down a well beaten path that leads to employment and a steady life, and that’s what college is for women. It’s not that for men by a long shot. If you get a degree you are disregarded as basically not knowing anything for the first ten years of your adult life, while women in the bloom of youth are the most valued they’ll ever be by society. These factors I’ve discussed could easily explain the “achievement gap,” and why it functionally doesn’t exist. Also, since women are supposedly doing better than men now, where’s our affirmative action, or at least why does any form of female encouragement need to continue, while male solidarity it essentially illegal?
Did you not record the phone call? If it makes you any better women dont do well in trade industry for example electrician jobs because there is mybe 0.1% doing them.
Run away from that organisation with such stats. Companies with such imbalance are usually a mess.
I work at a major health insurance company. We get monthly inclusion & Diversity emails breaking down the demographic stats of employees. 83% women at a large company, my boss, her peers, and our VP are all women. Yet despite their ideological narrative pushing around the pay gap I’m underpaid per my own boss. Being a minority of minorities since I was born on a south Asian island, has afforded me no special treatment in a predominantly white W work space. Just a bunch of virtue signaling with no action. I have received two market pay raises totaling $20k so far, but they still doesn’t make up for the pay gap. Still below the median pay per glass door even after 10 years with the company. The market raises did come from HR, so I’m thankful for at least some effort.
It's disheartening to me that the vast majority of written and verbal discussion about "men's problems" starts from the assumption that the only purpose of men is to do things for women and that men have no intrinsic value just by virtue of being men. "The declining utility of males." Utility for whom? Women and children. If you start from this assumption, all your research and its findings are biased by your "internalized misandry".
They only CARE about Men's issues UNTIL it starts affecting Society as a Whole. Society needs Men for the system to function that's when this guy and CNN Decided to bring such issues to the Mainstream. Before then Nada! Men's suffrage didn't matter! The stats didn't matter UNTIL we've reached ((Epidemic Levels))!!
You put my exact thoughts into words. I’ve always thought that men have so much self hatred because they want to feel useful. A lot of men’s rights rhetoric is focused on finding a way to be useful rather than being useful just by simply existing. Feminism allowed women to define themselves outside of men and procreation and I hope that men will be able to reach that same freedom. Your value should not be intertwined with anyone else because that’s validation not true self acceptance. Loving yourself is a revolutionary act so go out and be rebels ❤️
"DECLINING UTILITY OF MALES"? That's someone's idea of a bad joke! What utter fool came up with that concept? They could make a movie "A DAY WITHOUT MEN". Then show the results. Now there's a movie I'd watch, it would be hilarious! Picture this: The highways littered with dead cars, OMG no one can fix them now! And they can't even tow them away so the dead cars are just left where they stalled. All the traffic lights are out since there's no power either. Turn on the taps, no water comes out, OOPS, no one knows how to fix the plumbing. Air travel? Gone, no planes fly, nobody knows how to put the gas in! Nobody even knows how to drive the fuel trucks. Cities turning into mad-houses as all the police are female, no one defends against thieves, so they loot every Waz-mart (worse then they already are now). The flaws in all the men and their "DECLINING UTILITY" now seem like a minor joke as civilization collapses into a new bronze age, only nobody knows how to make the bronze...
"The declining utility of males."
Arbeit macht frei
@@robertmaybeth3434 I’m a woman and I agree with every word you say. I go along with James Brown’s song, “This Is a Man’s World”.
Regarding “equal pay”, I never hear a word about women wanting to get up in a cherry picker at 3:00 a.m. to fix the power lines during a snow storm. Or being a general laborer, a home builder, etc. It’s always about the ratio of office executives. Women can’t even keep things running well in their homes.
And the only time women began being commercial pilots is when the aircraft became so highly computerized. A stick and rudder female pilot?? Hardly. Knowing how to think outside the box in a crisis?…no way. Sorry women, but we are different from men. It’s why boys want to play with trucks and girls want to play with dolls. We have our different roles in this world. We both need each other. But not in the way it’s demanded of men these days.
We do have to remember that girls were raised in the same classrooms as the boys when they were being viewed as “bad boys” just because they are more boisterous than girls. And the girls were taught this by teachers and who knows what their feminist mothers have said to them. Women in their 30’s are utterly lost, too. They don’t deeply realize how they were taught to think lower of males and that they needed to view men as their competitors. Academia has been the ruin of all of us. So has the media and the lunatic Woke.
I've been the primary carer for our kids since birth as my wife was career obsessed. When we divorced, I left with nothing, but was still the full time career. I'm the worst person in the world because I refused to get a job, believing as I did that every child deserves a parent at home who is there just for them.
Everywhere I went I'd get the disapproving looks of "here comes the useless bum who's leeching off his ex wife." I can tell you 100% that there is no equality when it comes to parenthood.
I bet that's the same type of story my useless bum ex husband tells too. Truth was I was working my arse off to keep our heads above water after he quit his job when I had our son he said he wanted. He thought I wouldn't dare divorce him because he knew men get some custody now days and he knew I wouldn't want to share my child with a step mom. He was right for a while. I stayed for 5 years to get my son talking before I divorced his dad so that my son could tell me if he was mistreated. So I was basically a slave on government assistance with a husband that refused to work counting as an adult dependent pushing me over the poverty line and making us qualify for foodstamps. My son and I were never on stamps again after I left his idiot father.
But you spin the story like you are a hero. Bum
You need to have some self confidence and believe in yourself, who cares what society thinks
@@steve00alt70 women working and voting is a terrible idea
You are a man. You are supposed to be the money maker. Instead you are just a loser who is commenting on TH-cam to get sympathies.
All the rich women i know are married to men who are similar or above them in money making. No wonder you are divorced, loser. LOL🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
@@cantbendknee it's not the same thing. He is a man... with separation he is left with nothing. The mother gets the kid, the father pays alimony. Period.
As a (female) teacher I have championed young men and women for thirty years and am absolutely horrified at what I see. Contemporary ideology is pulling men and women apart in the most shallow, brutally stupid, psychology-free way and to witness this, (especially after years of encouraging great engagement with, understanding and celebration of each other from both sexes), is soul-destroying. I too utterly condemn the term 'toxic masculinity' and to those who criticise me I reply that they should first define for me the term 'toxic femininity'. What we need is a new movement headed up by strong men and women who want to be together, who want to celebrate and build on that. It will happen.
You're so right
@Marie Baker Tiktok is pretty bad, plus its mindless drible with only 30 second dumb ass videos. Social media is pretty bad nowadays, however it shouldn't be banned because thats government yet again imposing its will own our lives. Like we haven't had enough of that lately.
When the 1st world collapses markets will normalize.
I want to celebrate men and women’s differences while the left wants to tear people down based on them.
Take it from a guy who has been warning about this since the early 90s....women will never, ever listen. The truth makes them look bad, and equal treatment would mean women lose a shitload of privilege. And most women believe themselves exceptional enough to escape general consequences.
This is why this slide is one way...by the time women finally admit they fucked up, they will have thoroughly torched any hope men would forgive them.
When I worked at Statefarm, the annual diversity report was released, and they announced that corporate (not the agents' offices) was now over 60% female. The conclusion was "we still need to do more to hire and support women" and I was just like wtf.
Women really are a bottomless pit of special pleading and cruel self-entitlement at the expense of men's fundamental human rights.
Thanks for this Rex! I'll make sure I never give "State Farm" a dime of mine. They can go pound sand!
@@petemorton8403 My grand dad has worked with State Farm for legit 40yrs. He says the problem is they're essentially trying to slowly but surely get rid of the individual agents' offices, and push everyone to call a hotline that pushes them through to 'state farm hq' for better help. The agents are, of course, pushing back against this... and it's causing problems for everyone, typically the customer.
@@robertmaybeth3434 Dealing with state farm for a matter of life and death for a claim right now. They are criminal to an extreme it's disgusting and a nightmare.
I'm sorry you have to go through this... its one of the reasons I don't have life insurance and always refuse the salesmen. From my experience w insurance claims, I just assumed the insurance company will find some fine print or another way to wiggle out of paying, because except for auto, that is what they have always done for me in the past! @@user-gz4ve8mw9l
A great quote I heard a business woman say "When women say they want equality, they really want preferential treatment"
That's true of all the activist types. Just look at the "discriminated groups" in the UK. They receive such preferential treatment that you even dare to speak out a word against them you can and will get locked up.
I stopped at a rest area once and the bathrooms had one for women and one for both men and women. This is the equality they want.
Their oppression is imagined.
My father was a male feminist since his childhood. He always speaks about how a “real man” never disobeys a woman, never questions a woman, never raises his voice etc.
He works 7-5 to provide for my mothers extravagant lifestyle on top of doing all the house duties for her. She constantly abuses him often until he cries yet he never retaliates.
However she generally thinks she’s oppressed.
Sometimes, some women do not realize that what they're asking for is preferential treatment. In their views, they think that's the equality they deserve. But I've seen some women realize that and wake up from it :)
@@vivienneb6199 But to your point….yes, women are now excelling and surpassing men….thus, wouldn’t the answer be allocate some resources, get ideas for how to get the boys and men on tract? But if you dare point out boys I’d men may need help….patriarchy, men have all the perks, etc.
As a male engineer who attended college from 2012-2017 and joined the workforce after; women were and are still a minority in engineering, but they seem to out-compete the men in the job market. My female peers seemed to have no issue getting internships and job offers, often they would receive multiple offers. Meanwhile, myself and my male colleagues usually underwent several interviews before receiving an offer.
Funny thing is, Male Engineers out work, out produce and out last their counterparts. Who are the winners? The one hiring male Engineers
Maybe your classmates were better than you?
Hahaha....I like the use of the term "out-compete".
Uaaaaauuu, here in Spain I have experienced the saaamee issue and my brother too. My dad, as a CEO, was forced to hire women due to company policies. And eventually you know companies receive public funds for hiring women. I'm amazed you realised and showed it up. Thanks bro
My Dad was an engineer and I still think the reason there are still fewer girls taking engineering degrees is because as cognitive thinkers, men just make better engineers.
This is heartbreaking and I’m seeing my young son being negatively affected by the anti-male movement in his life. The other day he was asked by a classmate to be quiet (during a classroom discussion) since he is a white male and hence wasn’t allowed to have an opinion about the abortion question.
The teacher didn’t even stand up for him! It breaks my heart, especially since he is a very kind, caring and well intentioned person. Nobody deserves to be treated like this, yet the adults in the room are letting it!
Even ropes leave permanent marks on cemented wells ma'am, your son is apparently very young with an impressionable mind. YOU need to be there to ensure that he does not turn into a resentful or shy adolescent. But I'm sure you're aware of this. The father can almost always guide better. All the best.
And there you have the unmentioned dimension WHITE men and boys not simply men and boys
you are letting it. get him out of school.
There will be a time (soon) they will stand-up. And when they do, everyone will be shocked....but it will not end until the balance has been returned
You voted for this. You benefited from this. Now your children get to pay for it.
"Does anyone care about men's struggles?"
No.
I actually do, however I will point out that women generally still do most of the domestic work, resulting in that the retire with much less.
@@MargaretCampbell583 What is your point? Don't you think that one example is a bit of an oversimplification of the debate (?)
@@MargaretCampbell583
in my age group, in western europe, late twenties to mid or third quarter thirties, i just do not see that this is true. i find it very hard to find men in couples that are doing less in the household. most to all of them share the work. do a lot in terms of domestic work etc. and in that sometimes what typically men do (the work 'outside the house, i.e., keeping house and garden in order etc., keeping cars in order etc.) is often overlooked.
this aspect, that men dont do their fare share, is so 90s to me. i just do not see this in 2024 among young men who have families and wives and girlfriends...
@@AtticAurel I don't see it as a 90s thing. In my country Australia known to be very backward as mens behavior goes, they do help out and I suspect quite a few of them do a lot. i believe women should be doing the garden too, As for the car etc that usually goes to the garage these days. I can only speak for my own country I suppose which often doesn't have the best look. 😀
That is why men need to walk away from western societies. It is no longer for us but for women so let them deal with it. Men walking away from society will show these deluded feminists that men are vital for society and not only as a cheerleader for women. Men are born to build, lead and provide. If we are not able to do these things then we should simply walk away.
Fathers are SO much more than $provider.A warm loving daddy was an example to our daughter how a man truly treats a loved one & she did not need to look for Male affection in all the WRONG places.Daddys are important in every way you can imagine.
Kids NEED daddies & fathers!
Amen to that.
It gives me satisfaction to prove so that my daughter (she just turned two) has a comfortable life… but the making her giggle uncontrollably all the time… having her kind of halfway cry daddy when I have to be strict but 3 minutes later her saying “dada” and she takes my hand to go on her next greatest adventure is just all that really matters.
@@vivienneb6199 False. Men have been separated from their children by anti-male family courts and no-fault divorce.
Agreed. Good luck convincing lawmakers, courts, and feminists of this though.
@@vivienneb6199 Ultimately, women initiate 70-80% of divorces. They break up the family by breaking their marriage contract. Then the corrupt, man-hating court systems make it even worse for men. If men don't want to pay for that foolishness, that is their right.
I am a male teacher working in elementary school English education. Many of the points made here apply to my personal experience.
women are pushing men out of the field?
@@elise9537 That isn't what was said on the podcast or the OP's comment. Why would you phrase the question like that?
Richard Reeves "there's no evidence of discrimination against men"
Also Richard Reeves "massive concerted intentional effort in public policy and massive media campaigns to break the doors down for women and no such thing for men"
You ever hear the song walking contradiction by Green Day?
EXACTLY. Feminism pushed everywhere for equality ACTULAY achieves Power ahead and over Males
Well don’t make some studies on it to say what evidence there ?
Absolutely we live in a society that considers men as disposable.
I was going to type a full paragraph describing my rise, then sudden fall.
I'll sum it up as this. I went from a husband, father of three, and pharmacist to a jobless (while trying to meet or exceed my custody time with children), homeless, ill with internal organ diseases, and ostracized by community - shell of a man. I have no purpose. I'm disabled. My ex had been combative upto 10 years post-divorce and turned my children against me.
Tell me why I should give a damn about anything, especially the condition of any non-familial female. And your nauseous presumption that women are the better and more nurturing gender of parent is just reprehensible. The only thing my ex could do more than I was breastfeed. I was orders of magnitude better than her in reading our children's physical and psychological needs and attending to them.... ok, I'm depressed. Bye.
Marriage is a contract between a man and the govt, the proceeds of which are split between the woman and some fat cat. bureaucrat.
@@chipcook5346 The only way to win is not playing. This goes for men everywhere at all points of life.
Oh, just breastfeeding? Ok.
@Dan Evans You should give a damn about yourself so your children see a resilient man free of bitterness.
This is why many Young Men don't want to marry. We are hearing all these nightmare stories including yours
As a guy I can relate, schooling being forced down my throat with studying, exams, daily homework, sitting and writing an essay for hours felt like torture when all I wanted to do was go outside and be in the trees. After graduating from uni finally finally free but can't come to terms with sitting inside in front of a computer for most of my days. So long story short I'm a Fedex driver and like it because I get to be outside and burning energy, don't make a whole lot but can pay my bills and I'd say have some decent job security but it's fine while I'm still young.
My son is elementary age and sounds like you. We finally pulled him from public school and I quit my job to homeschool him. He hates sitting down and only wants to be outdoors. We live in Alaska so I take him outdoors as much as possible. Yesterday he was frustrated with a math lesson so I said to myself "F it! We're going outside!" Took him out and challenged him to build a fire in under 10 mins with supplies within 25 feet of our garage and only gave him 5 matches. It was so funny and fun. At bedtime, he kissed me and said "mommy I had the best school day ever. Im so proud of myself." Man, can't beat a moment like that!
They say that homework is the most unnecessary thing in the world. If you can do it, theres no need to do it. If you cant do it, you just struggle endlessly, or you do it wrong, and get used to a bad practice.
@@boese-i5g I could always do it but obviously sitting and concentrating and thinking on numbers, equations and sequences is just very tedious and not my thing. I would rather work my body then work my brain I guess.
The most demotivating thing is that you put up with this crap and then you switch university for whatever life circumstance reason and are told a ton of those courses are completely worthless and won't be transferred, this system needs to fucking die
I could pass every test AND learn the material just by memorization, especially if I was interested in the class.
But I hated homework because it was excess busywork.
Guess how much of a shit the system gave about me...
I love how he says there is no evidence of discrimination and then cites the evidence of discrimination against boys and men.
I was thinking the same thing, if the system works better for women and most teachers are female and the narrative pushes female empowerment then by definition there is discrimination. But let's not talk about that. This guy is pretty soy.
Exactly. And when he said that back then women doing worse was due to sexism i was like come ooon!!!
Thank you. i didn't have to write it myself.
@@cantbendknee he sure is. But his discourse is a little too female indulging.
@@kmc1872 I’m soo sick of that lie. Women have been starting their own businesses for centuries. It just wasn’t as common.
I was told, by a (female) professor of education, over a decade ago, the the educational system, especially in secondary school, is biased in favour of girls. Among her suggestions, similar to those put forward here, was that boys should start school one to two years later than girls and also that more males should be encouraged into teaching, both a at primary and secondary level.
Her strong view was that if we continued with the status quo, this would lead to a positively dangerous situation for society, where potentially large cohorts of dissatisfied, unfulfilled, poorly educated, unemployable, angry males would rebel.
Some might opine that such a situation has already been embedded in US society.
I shudder to think what kind of soy-boys will be attracted to, and allowed to take teaching professions.
Yes but you forgot about call of duty and legalized weed
@Roy why are you denigrating men? I’ve had a couple male teachers and I loved them. Looking back I’m so glad I did. They weren’t soy boys, I don’t know why you’d even suggest such a thing.
Schools were created by men for boys
We're already there. Buckle up.
My Dad turns 99 on 10/17; he was our rock of stability, guidance, respect, and dignity within our family unit. The value he provided to the family is immeasurable. I love him dearly.
God bless your dad. What a lovely man. Every family needs this.
I don't feel left "behind", I just feel left. Like society went one direction (towards a clif) and I went another.
Kind of like the vax. I was a devil for not wanting an experimental treatment. In the end I was right again but society at large tries it's best to ignore men that make the right choice.
You're not alone my man; same here. Its disorienting because its like I don't even recognize the society I live in anymore. Like I got dropped on a different planet in the middle of a random night.
@@TheHappyBachelor At this point, I just laugh at the absurdity. My money's out of their system, no debt, and no kids/wife to come at me sideways with. I plan to live as my forefathers intended.....free.
@@TheHappyBachelor can you give examples of why you feel this way?
I’m trying to better understand people’s view points on here. Is this happening in your day to day life? With friends? Family? Or do you see it more on social media?
Genuine question. I’m not very much on social media so I want to understand.
@@RandoHandle Leftist can legally kidnap your child at school and get their sex changed. That same kid can't get a tattoo until 18. The left is mindless and upside down.
I've been a caregiver to my father since I was in my early 20s (44 now). There was even a 6 year period where I took care of both my mom and dad. He has an anoxic brain injury and she had early-onset Alzheimer's. My mom passed away several years ago and I'm still taking care of my dad. I'm a good person and dependable but despite that women simply aren't interested in men like me. They don't need men that can do what they already excel at. That's why so few men choose to be caregivers.
And yes, no one cares about us. When my mom was alive people checked in on us regularly. Since she passed we might get a visit from someone once a year (but usually not) and a call maybe twice a year. The last time someone visited our house was over a year ago, and even that was someone that had been paid to do so. We could have been dead for months and absolutely no one would know. Everyone has completely forgotten about us.
I’m sorry 😢hun 💔
Touching story…men often are alone. Since I realized this, I started to be more selfish and show myself the love that others wouldn’t show me.
Toxic masculinity is one of the most destructive and misused terms of the modern day.
All it has done is polarise people more than ever before and alienate men as their most true essence is vilified.
As we can see from the pervasive degeneracy of modern culture masculinity is absolutely essential.
noone cares about men
@Fenwick Give an inch, they'll take a mile.
It just proves that women have an innate desire to shame men. When women feel they should stop using that word is like trying to put tooth paste back in the tube. To late the intentions have been revealed. Similar to the kil all men hashtag.
@Fenwick Kind of like rape culture. It was a phrase used in studies of prison gangsters and it got dragged out of the literature and slapped on average guys until it was meaningless.
@Fenwick Toxic masculinity emerged within the mythopoetic men's movement of the 1980s, it was coined by Shepherd Bliss. It was used to identify Frat bro culture and relationships between men. Feminists co-opted it a decade ago to mean something else. It was never about domestic violence which as we now know is about 50/50 male female.
Elementary education is pretty much the definitional case of a hostile workplace environment, for men.
So true.
Oh but it gets worse in current companies
Lol yeah that would be the most stressful job I could ever imagine. I’d be scared af every day if I were a male teacher
I used to worked at the marketing department. There were seven women and me the lone guy. It was like I was the outcast and not privy to enjoy the girls club
I am the only male at work and have been through an ugly divorce. I have thought of checking out often and this video is spot on.
Hang on in there dude.
I hope you don't mean check-out check-out - I hope you mean like you're going to quit your job and find another one where you work around more guys.
I just saw your comment , I hope things are looking up. But, even if the storm hasn't passed yet, persevere. There are better times in the future. Perhaps find a way to do something positive for someone else, and if it feels good, do something for someone else, again.
Hang in there brother.
time to move to a job field that is mostly men only. blue collar jobs in a trade skill.
When I was growing up (24 American male) I watched my manipulative mother destroy my father in a 6 year long divorce. During this time one of the two parents moved in or out of the family house 9 times. I raised by her to hate my own father. While he made mistakes, this lead to me growing up with no male role model. Every teacher minus 1 was female. In the school system there was nothing geared to interest a boy. The whole structure is heavily feminized. I grew understanding that even if you did better than a female, she may get accepted to college over you. I saw that even if both parents made mistakes, the women can be unimaginable cruel and still take everything. Lastly young men also understand dating has turned into online shopping for women and all of them chase they same 1%. I don’t think starting boys in school a year later will fix the fact that society is in deep decay. It’s bad that young are not running from marriage, rather the divorce that will almost certainly be brought against them. It’s bad young men know that the girls around them have gotten special treatment right in front of their faces while simultaneously learning class about feminism and equality. It’s bad morals that built our society have disappeared. Somehow after seeing everything in America being stacked against traditional men, many young men don’t a working women. We have seen single parent homes and the things nightmare divorces do to kids. If the prospect of having a family is gone, what else can equal that as a motive for men? One year later starting school absolutely not fix A) boys seeing girls get favorable treatment in everything B) boys seeing every role model they should have been destroyed by divorce and C) they heavily feminized school system that is based around being agreeable and memorization. Right out of high school, actually started my senior year, I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic for 5 years. At the end of those 5 years I was making 14$ and hour doing an extremely difficult and dirty job while the female secretary who started a year after me was making well over $20. Sure I could have ended up making good money in that career had I stayed longer. However I looked at the mostly 50 year old men I worked with and saw miserable, divorced, physically broken humans and thought to myself, what is the point? These men will work 70+ hours a week in the hot, humid southern USA climate to get the job done and provide for kids who will hardly talk to them while paying the women who divorced him. Idk who this dude is but I’m a product of what this divorce culture does. Also I look at Chicago and I don’t believe it’s made things better that men retreated.
This guy is drivel. There is nothing very sensible about this. Societies that don't get this right will fade away as fertility will drop significantly. Already 60% of men under 30 are not in a relationship and a significant proportion are not looking to ever be in one. Your story is classic and many boys raised like this realise that what happened to dad could easily end up happening to them.
“Nobody predicted…” but plenty of academics and politicians were so sure of themselves in the first instance, and now it sounds like they’re absolving themselves of any responsibility.
"Nobody predicted..." is code for: I didn't foresee this dumpster fire catch a spark but I still am an authority on its origins
The “intellectual” and “political” class is filled with morons. Who would’ve thought?
He makes a lot of small attempts to downplay how correct the right was about a lot of things and it only hurts the left to refuse admitting it.
Was at Teacher Training College in the late 1980s. It was obvious what was going to become of boys even then. One lecturer even encouraged us to not allow boys to ask any questions in class for fear they would dominate the discussion...
Getting rid of single sex education was a big mistake. I went to a boys grammar school on the 60's and 70's.
There was no gender nonsense, almost all teachers were male, it was high energy, sporting, leant towards STEM subjects. A high percent went on to further education and with great success.
I can't imagine how much worse things would be had we been a mixed sex school.
@@eleveneleven572 all of this has been orchestrated!!! It can't all be the result of accidents.
@@eleveneleven572 man it feels like a dream,this school still exist in india though just like men's only gyms,i went to a cod school but it was alright,no gender nonsense just boys being boys nd girls being girls.
Consider that a main reason men are checking out is because of the risk involved. Divorce court, family court, alimony, child support. Looking at college, considering the hyper inflation of tuition, that the debt is nondischargeable, that the odds of actualizing graduating and becoming well employed are actually pretty bad, ect. Now imagine taking on all that risk for a toxic man hating feminist that didn't save herself for marriage to say the least.
@@Zebielie Crash those birthrates like Biden is crashing your economy.
I always hear a lot of men talk about paying alimony or losing half of their assets but a lot of y’all don’t have assets to lose and alimony mostly only applies to rich people
@@michaelajames99 Some men stay poor intentionally because of this. What's the point of building a life through sacrifice if you are made to lose it at the end of it all? When you are money poor you are often time rich. That's worth something as well. That's what checking out does for you.
@@mrnice1976 no on intentionally stays poor in a capitalistic society because being poor is fatal. We all die and therefore loose everything so I want to live the best life I can rather than stunting my own success and happiness for some imagined divorce. Sounds like cope to me
@@michaelajames99 Staying poor is only fatal if you have poor health. If you have excellent health and live in a friendly climate you need surprisingly little to be happy. Some people earn money by sacrificing their health. That's a bad trade off. I value peace of mind higher than anything else in life.
Brilliant and so insightful. I have been a feminist all my adult life, worked with women and girls education for over 40 years. I have always argued that we need to work - simultaneously - with boys / men. Yes, many feminist like me agree with your point that this is not a zero-sum game; women / girls will not be safe / free / empowered unless men / boys flourished. Thank you.
they will flourish as our helpmates instead of our tyrants
Lady feminism did it. What ever you think feminism as a whole is responsible.
Exactly.. I’m a feminist too.. and i agree..3rd wave feminism has done alot of shitty things like terfs,choice feminism and demonising everything male instead of learn good things from masculinity..
And this is a weirdly western phenomena too..rest of the world where I’m from.. women are still very enthusiastic too actually work hard and appreciate soft and caring partners.. there are countries where women are killed simply for showing stands of hair, then there are American women who are screwing up pretty bad.. worst part is, Americas owns a lot of media.. So men here often overestimate the problems and think that’s what’s going to happen here too..
@@Iamhere829it wasn’t just 3rd wave. Feminists since the beginning were radical and toxic. When they were known as the suffragettes they did assassinations and terrorist attacks. Look it up when you have the time.
It's incredible how utterly unattractive and turned off woman are by any guy who expresses vulnerability/sadness. When women say they want a sensitive man, they dont want you to be sensitive about YOUR emotions/feelings, they want you to be sensitive to THEIR emotions and feelings. There's not actually room in relationships for men to express their doubts or concerns and women just get upset about you being upset.
It depends on how completely irrational the man is being. I don't mind him expressing concerns but if a man has worse pms than any woman I've ever known then I'm gunna be turned off ya.
True story
Once I was dating a guy who's dad owned the company I was working for. He advertised himself as a really chill person with an upbeat attitude. Once at a company dinner we were together and I was eating of course not knowing anything was amiss. When we got home he's upset to the point of yelling and almost crying. He tells me that at the company dinner a guy was staring at HIM a lot and he felt like the guy was challenging him in some way and thr only conclusion could be that I was cheating on him with that guy.
Reasons why this is illogical are obvious but become even more obvious when you add that due to losing contracts I was working for months in a building separate from almost everyone and except for that company dinner never even saw the other people that worked at the main building. It was also insulting to me because the kid he was accusing me of cheating with was 12 years younger than me a pimple faced teen. I broke up with him
@@Opal5674 men being completely irrational is a red flag for mental instability and a turn off obviously. I'm speaking more towards completely normal stuff that would be worrisome if someone wasn't emotionally effected by it.
@@Opal5674 It's funny how you just made the conversation about YOUR concerns, exactly the way Max T was describing.
@@wtfdoihavetodohere No. I gave an example of a reason woman would be turned off by a man being too emotional/irrational
That is very wrong. Every human being on the planet should be able to be vulnerable. I grew up with four brothers--no sisters. I can remember them struggling from time to time, but I'm glad they had one another to rely on at school when they needed support. I was the youngest and I always loved how protective they were of me. I didn't really pay attention to that until I was older and they married. I missed them so much and used to pop over to visit them when I was in college, but sadly two of my sisters-in-law thought it was strange and I had to stop visiting. One SIL actually insinuated something crazy and I realized that some wives not only push a MIL away, they are also good at severing relationships between brothers and sisters. My Sister in law won and I'm no longer invited to any family functions. I've begun to accept that some women never evolve and are bent on being a perpetual mean girl.
People need to move to be mentally normal. Sedentary people are more anxious and depressed than non-sedentary people, and people have never been more sedentary. While this is true of both sexes, I'd be willing to bet it is the most true for boys. If the average boy's day consists of being forced to sit still at school for six hours and then coming home and staying inside to play video games, then of course they can't focus.
Agreed!
Nailed it!!!
Or, school has become utterly boring and unconvincing. The best school in the world today is not called "school", it's called the internet.
@Fenwick I was reading your coents everywhere and you are just a troll misandrist trying to dismiss mens issue. You are saying being teenage boys having crazy amount of pent up energy and their natural tendency to not being able to sit still as their personal choice? Yes to some degree yes. But we are talking about child, teenage boys. And we are talking about structural problem of the education today that punish boys for being boys. No need to be here to dismiss mens issue if you hate men so much. Go watch some radical feminist video or something else that makes u happy
@Fenwick I wouldn’t say the same most schools where I’m from removed recess and only have lunch. That online stopped a lot of kids particularly boys to get a break of the monotony to go and play for 20 mins. I believe that positively affected boys focused because it was more balanced.
I read "Richard V. Reeves" as if it were a court case maybe three times before finally understanding it's his name. Looking forward to listening.
Sounds like a Marvel character.
lol😁😁😁😁😁🤣😂🤣😅🤣😂
I find the entire assessment between the gaps in education and employment types massively dishonest. It wasn't some organic system of girls/women catching up, the entire system was revamped in order to encourage them and gave them special consideration across the board. You can easily see this when you pick up a booklet for scholarships and see how many of them boys qualify for and how many girls do. Then you have to take into consideration the strong anti male sentiment that is riddled all throughout non stem field related education.
One thing that no one seems to be talking about is how the push for Student debt loan forgiveness is basically an attempt to transfer money from blue collar males to university educated women. Women owe 70%+ of all student loans and allowing any form of tax payer funded relief is just men paying for women's choices indirectly since men pay 66% of all tax revenue already.
Feminism hasn't been about equality since the 60s, its now just a catchy slogan for any and all things ranging from mundane complaints falsely assumed to be sexism to gerrymandering entire education systems in order to enrich select groups. You will never see a situation where the potential to be a victim exists and feminists choice to not engage or take the high road.
19:29 Guy says no one was saying that. In correct. In my school women teachers were constantly telling me since I was in early elementary school that I would amount to nothing, and that there's something wrong with me. They would also mark my assignments wrong when they were right. I kept some early math assignments, and tests to remind myself. In engineering now so thankfully it didn't completely ruin me, but I definitely had to go up against it constantly.
I respect your experience and think these teachers are vile and evil but keep in mind that girls also face these things not necessarily from their schools but from the environment around them. Ask any woman around and she can tell you how in childhood they’re constantly told to forego their dreams and focus on getting married.
@@rrrggg5267 No woman in the west was told this unless you're from a very religious family. Also many women's dreams are a family, it's not forgoing it. The notion that there's some kind of greater sense of purpose in grinding out your life as a gear in the machine instead of having a family is absurdity.
66, once considered myself a feminist, progressive. At the 2017 Women's March I heard a lot of "men are the problem" speech, not "some me". WTF? That was it for me. I currently don't speak to women, make eye contact, unless I have to for some business reason. I'm polite, don't hate women, but happy to not interact.
This is not my fight. I do agree this issue is caused by many men.
Planning now to move to SE Asia.
The thing with bringing up these issues especially around other women is that someone raising these issues means your an “incel” and anti women. It’s not about undoing what we have done for women about equality across the board.
Men are told to speak up but when we do it’s toxic masculinity or misogynistic.
I’ve been in a relationship for three years now and every time I try to talk about this topic the default response is that I’m just an insane loser who hates women and can’t get laid. Pathetic
@@230mps Wait, who do you try to talk about this with?
Hi. It’s not toxic or incel-y thing at all. I believe it should be talked about and we should raise awareness about the struggles than men are going through. However, the main issue is a lot of people are just like the other side of the misandrists who call themselves feminists. Take a look at the comment section and you’ll get what I mean. People here are truly misogynistic and they’re no much different than the misandrists they oppose.
@@rrrggg5267people arent mysognystic. mysogny is an overused word and you know it. Enough exaggerating it. There is only misandrym
@@230mps If men didn't worry about getting laid, almost all society's problems would fix themselves. That's why orders like The Knights Templar wanted their members to be chaste, so they couldn't get pussy-whipped out of their morals.
The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth
Ouuuh yeah
Who said that do you know ?
Yep being a male is often felt as evil. I remember that as a kid and I'm in my 30's now. I find in many ways with the outline of the issues presented here it's a real. Duhh moment that men lash out in suicide. When many of the signals say men aren't needed anymore. ( I believe an unattended consequence, at rebalancing social norms)
"nobody predicted" we saw that coming, they just didn't care or "couldn't stop it"
He says there is no intentional discrimination against boys in education… But if you’re aware that a disparity exists that should not exist and you choose to do nothing to fix it, wouldn’t that make it intentional discrimination?
Thank you for all this amazing info. I am raising two boys and society is changing so much. I want them to be the best they can be for themselves and all the people around them. These discussions help so much to keep us up to date.
Just take them to your nearest BJJ gym aka MMA gym and make sure they hang out around men who don't ascribe to society's lies.
Discussion is good but this guy seems to think it has all happened in a vacuum and that no one knew what the consequences would be and also that there wasn't a deliberate attempt to destroy families and men by some. Maybe some of them didn't know but they never stopped to think of the negative outcomes. I'm not sure that someone who denies the above factors is capable of constructing a robust solution that wouldn't fail again.
It's over for your boys.
34:24 That's a myth. Female employment was never 0%, women were working in factories for as long as there have been factories, especially factories that automated historically female jobs.
Only upper middle class and upper class women had the luxury of not working, in case of the latter many were "professional socialites" and investors like their men. The idea that women didn't work before Feminism is a myth propagated by Feminism to raise its own importance.
A poor family in the 1950's or 1940's couldn't and wouldn't survive on one breadwinner, usually grand-parents took care of children while both parents worked. If a man became unemployed due to a work accident it also wasn't rare for the wife to be the sole breadwinner.
This is a great podcast episode. Espcially since im a Father of 2, one boy and one girl. On top of that, I coach Youth as well, which has lead me to start thinking on all these things on my own, its great to hear discussion on it. Thanks CW, been loving the content.
The answer is no. Im an exec in behavioral healthcare and just about no major company is doing anything specifically for men and boys. There are hundreds of programs for girls, women, bipoc, lgbt, etc but very few that address mens needs. It's causing a gap and if someone was to bring it up they'd be ostracized. It's maddening
I don’t need society. Society needs me. I fix problems all day long don’t need thanks. There is no ego in that statement. I get respect by not looking for it. My girl was driving me crazy until she realised that while I love her I don’t need her.
Please don’t leave us behind, Albert Einstein
@@rrrggg5267 lmao
I’m a fellow of the royal academy of engineers. Currently their is massive focus on encouraging more women into the industry. However we are at circa 25%. Which happens to be the apparent equilibrium reach in recognised countries like Sweden. What I think is being completely ignored is encouraging young males into the industry. As such rather than encouraging all genders it is becoming biased. To discuss this obviously attracts criticism of being sexist, however I think it is recognising many of the issues you have addressed. Males have sometimes a less fearful attitude to risk which can be a benefit as well as a disadvantage.
When he says around 19.00 that there is no discrimination against boys/men isn’t he kind discounting the fact that there are all kinds of quota that dictate to prefer women for university/job spots?
Paul Elam discussed how therapy is often dominated by women, and often sucks for men. Men are often told not to talk about their feelings, but not being able to vent has explosive results.
Dr. Helen Smith also observed problems with men and psychology. She wrote "Men On Strike" when she encountered a man being beaten by his wife, and lacking proper care.
Paul Elam is a resentful old fart.
The insight about how men and women differ in their views of the mutability of the person and that person’s environment is brilliant. Hits the nail on the head.
All educational practices have shifted toward women.
1. Loosely or informally defined tasks
2. Group tasks/discussions
3. Mandatory woke subjects injected into STEM degrees (mostly females agree with woke politics)
4. Shift from understanding, toward work (tests -> assignments)
5. Shift from reasoning, toward rote memorization
Autists are the canary in the coalmine in these aspects. If education were taking autism inclusiveness seriously, they would also solve the male/female educational success discrepancy. Yes, I do think at least a large minority of autism-diagnoses are simply extremes of male psychological features.
A symptom of this is Agreeableness (big-5 trait) correlates positively with grades, while it has historically correlated negatively with career success. We used to think talk is cheap, but in education it's a huge advantage.
In 10 years, all of these boss women will be crying because they can't find a guy who earns more than they do
The real issue is that going to College is the default. It should only be for those who are intellectually superior, male or female. This used to be the case and now going to college is the expectation.
Participation degrees
I disagree, im from europe where higher education is free and i could go to Uni and support myself along the way. I think whole world is better with educated people, id rather have educated plumbers with art degrees, or electricians that studied history. Those people live in different communities and can provide a lot of insight to everyone around them lifting everyone up.
Ofc you can go through skill training and just do the work, and youll be good at it. But if you do more, life does have more colors to it. Just my take.
@@kamiladamczyk2469 on the other hand society will demand from you certifications of education for the most absurd jobs, so increasingly you end up having to spend sums of money, for useless formations and other burocratic bs. If i want to make videos and charge for that i only have to learn how to use software to learn video editing, i dont need a full degree in marketing or some other bs, yet thats how it is now.
@@kamiladamczyk2469 now you go work on a factory and they demand you a education formation to use a fork lifter, something you learn to use in 5 min and then get used to it. Its ridiculous and castrating imo, at the end of the day its just another business for state schools of labour to charge money for useless courses.
@@BorisMarques14.88 Junk I know. Paying for useless shit that you will never use and eventually stop caring about. Sounds like the new American dream. Consume ou useless eaters, consume!
I can personally attest to gaming saving my life. I think you hit the nail on the head, the technology came just when we needed it. Thank you so much guys, this was a very informative podcast
I know enough about the topic (despair, depression and video games - sounds like a movie) to agree w y ou, but HOW did they save your life? And which games? And what about them saved you? I truly want to know!
@@robertmaybeth3434 an escape into another world where you can matter, you are respected for your skill which you can improve. you are given a way to be social even if you don’t have very many friends
I’m currently a student I’m busy with 8th grade,I’ve recently written a research paper for school underlining the reasons to why teens are so impulsive for my science project I did conclude the prefrontal cortex situation ,myelin sheets etc what I’m trying to say is that with the education system male teenage behaviour is punished example disagreeableness and we know that disagreeable boys get worse grades (but disagreeable adult males make more money)And female teenage behaviour like agreeableness consciousness is praised and also with more female teachers at play teenage boys are told to shut up and do their work so I do see teenage boys performing less than teenage girls and brain development is crucial for teenage behaviour so what we need is for the education system to be aware of this and to teach boys how to control their impulsiveness and stuff like that and how cater to all genders instead of just one gender.
I wonder if it’s about brain development or socialization. Girls are expected to act a certain way from a young age but very little is expected of boys. Congrats on writing your research paper, I hope that interests continues as you get older. Good luck kid 😊
Also…there is the culture that male behavior is “toxic”. Disagreeableness, assertiveness, and impulsiveness are necessary human behavioral qualities. Under certain circumstances, being agreeable,
and conformist is unhealthy. It’s the belief that we all should strive to act feminine.
It's tough to get men into low paying roles, like kindergarten teacher, when men are expected to be the main breadwinner for a family.
Having more male teachers is infinitely more important than having more women pilots or in STEM fields. Yet there are numerous programs and initiatives to encourage women into these fields, I don't see the same drive to get males into teaching, more evidence that we're living in a gynocentric society
Sure ..... having male teachers that are acceptable to the current education administrations. I can almost guarantee it will be mostly males without a trace of masculinity and not veteran former marines.
I very much doubt boys will benefit from having the male teachers "progressives" prefer.
Men don't go into poorly paid professions unless they have no other option......pilots are paid infinitely more.
It is not the distortion of the societal conditioning but the reward system which is skewed.
If teaching was paid on pair with investment banking.....
@@tinamenon1593 It doesn't help that the people running teacher education programs don't seem to want men. Ask me how I know...
I'm glad this guy is defending boys/men, but in a way I think he's part of the problem. He's being too reticent on the differences between men and women. Not acknowledging general biological trends and statistics is what causes all of this trouble. The notion that men and women are the same and they should somehow be 50/50 in all professions, or even in job participation in general, feeds these societal problems.
Loved this conversation man! As a 34 year old man, I accidentally came across this video. And it's one that is perfect timing for me, and for society as a whole. Great guest, great rapport, and a delve into topics that need to be discussed. Too much ignorance in the world from feminism to toxic masculinity. And this swiftly cuts through that bullshit/noise etc. We as a society must acknowledge how important men are to children and women, to that discussed point of feminism is being granted what they are fighting for. Men deserve fighting for now too. It will be interesting to see how the socioeconomic landscape changes over the next few years. Thanks for this discussion. Have that woman on like Richard Reeves mentioned!
I absolutely love that you are talking about this. I have two sons and I care very much about our boys and men. ❤
Yeah but what's amazing is that they still made it all about women. Males falling behind is bad because it's bad for women. Unbelievable!
@Voice ForBoys
Why are you writing a novel with things that have nothing to do with what was said in my post?
Same as it ever was women only care about their sons or men that they find attractive.
@BlunderCity I didn’t get that impression at all. I think the two I’m this discussion genuinely care about the struggles of men, as do I.
aw that's nice! You ought to know parents like you are the only thing stopping the whole school system from destroying itself via wokeness -
I have a great solution that we already had in the past... boys only schools with predominantly male teachers!
Yes, exactly how it used to be! I went to an all boys school with mostly male teachers. (Yes, that’s how old I am).
The phrase ‘toxic’ masculinity should not be allowed to be uttered until we can also equally recognise the destruction of toxic femininity - which will never happen in MMS.
Or we could dump both terms, stop treating all men, women, races or religions as a monolith, but rather acknowledge that in the aggregate men and women are vulnerable to unique character pathologies due to the unique ways our temperaments develop.
In a fair game women get left far behind
They'd rather knee cap the boys then admit women don't wanna work as hard.
@@prettyboyjeremy that is such an appallingly pathetic analysis of an incredibly complex problem. Grow up and stop being divisive and antagonistic.
Well said!🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
@@meghan8020He is right. women dont want to be criticized.
@@Vishnuk-fe9iv then learn how to have conversations productively, or find better girlfriends. You sound like a whingeing feminist.
Thank you both 😊
One aspect you could've discussed more perhaps was 'have men become less useful as they've been replaced, in part, by the state/government?'
Using Rob Henderson's luxury beliefs idea, female economic independence only really exists for very successful women not necessarily the average or lower socioeconomic groups who rely on societal intervention to varying extents (child support, social housing, etc.).
Furthermore, the data shows that kids from two parent households do better than single parent homes. Ergo, fatherhood, must (in some cases) be about more than just economics and/or protection.
So men flourishing can help women too, not all women e.g., misandrists, and if feminism is about choice, not supremacy, then isn't that a cogent reason to try and get both men and women to flourish (the point you kind of finished on)?
yeh well that seems obvious but its clearly not.
I do agree that some things that are expected of men have been replaced by the state but I would say that children are able to “do better” because of access to opportunity rather than a two parent household. I would guess that on average people who are single parents make less money and therefore have less to spend on providing opportunities.
I would wager that a kid growing up in a household making 200k with a father and mother versus one making 200k with just a mother - the one with two would be much better off. Parents (fathers) are more than just a paycheck. More money after a certain point doesn’t matter that much.
Let's be realistic...... we aren't talking about poor women at all... we don't count the poor in this country
Not really independent though, when she's depending on the man's money/divorce settlement tho.
This is the BEST podcast there is on TH-cam. Cheers from Spain.
They salted the soil and have women believing that men are evil by the time they fall out of the womb. To me, it feels like women flipped a switch and started hating me over night because of my gender. That's what all of this feels like.
I remember I had a really close female friend from highschool. After HS, she all of a sudden started making posts that vilify and ridicule men and I was just like where is all this coming from??? Am I a part of these men too, even though I was a great friend to you? It makes zero sense. It's the definition of "who hurt you" and it reminds me of CORFing, "cutting off reflected failure".
The good men that were in their life they took for granted and pretended didn't exist. Of course that will be spun around to seem like it's our fault, even though there is an obvious stigma against being nice as a man, which makes no sense, my grand mother raised me on, "be kind, not nice". Problem is collective IQ has dropped and people don't even know there is a difference between the two anymore or the meaning behind the phrase.
I am a school counselor and we have 4 women counselors at the high school, 3 at the middle school, 2 each at the lower elementaries, but anytime we we had a chance to have 2 male counselors in my upper elementary building, people said you can’t have 2 men.
54:40 The "protector rôle" was already taken over by the state in ancient times, fathers actually are proven to have a positive effect on both sons and daughters and in the case of girls teenage pregnancy and lower academic success is actually correlated with fatherlessness, these effects are worse in sons.
Men dont even care about men's struggles
I graduated in 2016 from High School. I never had a male teacher
good let the women deal with the weirdos.
Are we going to deal with the reality of what happens when we reach our 30s & 40s? Like how the motivation to work over 40 hrs drops dramatically in women? It doesn't matter how many male / female scientists we have graduating college; it matters who's making the strides in R&D, venture capitalism, etc. Yup: men...
No we're not. Please stop mentioning reality. Reality is not relevant in this discussion.
Or how about the fact that we are currently undergoing a doctor shortage because of system propping female doctors up. This in turn leads to them working for a 1-4years before finding mr right (another doctor) who will support her lifestyle of being a stay at home mom. They literally quit after they get pregnant because of this we don't have enough actual doctors staying in the field.
John Glenn women don't want to work. The majority of them have been polled as wanting to be stay at home moms, not working. They want to be in the home and taking care of kids.
Its only because of all the propaganda used on all of us at a young age have they been brainwashed into thinking they need to be a independent woman who don't need no man. They realize it later that they don't really want it. We have all been sold a lie.
This is simply a lie. Most women work well after raising their kids. It is men who are dropping out from the workforce.
@@TheFirstTriplefife This is also a lie. I work in STEM and my bestie is a Doctor. She already had a 7 yo but at the time of COVID, se lost her second baby to miscarriage owing to extreme pressure. Last year she had her second baby and took a break. This year she joined again. Taking small 6 month breaks doesnt mean women are dropping out. Women outnumber men in medicine. You are simply delusional. We arent happy to stay at home and raise the kids. We want both.
@@manifest2203 anecdotal evidence. It doesn't prove much except for a situational view point. Polling and other data points direct me towards what I know as being more realistic.
I could also use anecdotal evidence. I had two neibors that were doctors. Both worked together at the same hospital. The wife ended up retiring fairly early to be a stay at home mom. I have a literal real life example. It does prove im right though, only data points can provide info on the general trends.
As some self reported stem type you should know this.
I can't believe this content is free. What a time we live in. Thank you Chris 🙏
38:40 Men actively get attacked by both men AND women, companies prefer female H.R. because that helps with their "diversity" statistics, regarding men in care there is always a scare that men will abuse the people they're taking care of, despite only a very small amount of them being abusive and this number not being that different from female abusers.
The problem with getting people to care about men's issues is summed up precisely in the Richard's closing statement: "to help women to flourish, and kids to flourish, we need to help men to flourish as well."
This paints men's issues as being primarily important due to their second-order impact on the only gender that actually matters, women. Because what that statement ultimately implies is that if women and kids were not impacted by the problems men face, then there's no reason to care.
they are faced by the impacts and they still don’t care
Everyone has their struggles. Not everyone is graced with assistance from others to facilitate getting through them. Sometimes we just have to find our own way and grow through them on our own. Scary that, having to be responsible for one's own destiny, and not always having access to help. At 72, this is still one of my own struggles. At times I wish for having a conversation with someone who has been down the road I'm on, and can inform me of a few signposts. But at this late stage I'm finding that kind of personality in this insane world is virtually impossible to encounter. I must content myself with working with the knowledge and wisdom I've attained. I'm at that age where anyone who might have greater insight is going senile. Yet our destiny is in our own hands.
When I divorced my wife, I started attending divorce anonymous. I hoped that I would find a little bit of camaraderie, some occasional insightful wisdom, and the energy to move through that phase positively. The group was dominated with females of course, and upon voicing a few of my concerns and difficulties, I was approached by two men who felt like I could help them through their own struggles. One was very anxious and intense. I had to tell them both that I was looking for my own answers too, that I had not the ability to guide them to a successful resolution of their own. Everybody was drowning in the aftermath of divorce, looking for that anchor to get above water and breathe--lose their fears of the future. I cared and wanted to help, but I did not want to pull others under in the process because of my own condition. Counseling (aka "therapy") was of no use whatsoever. Growing pains are much easier for the young to handle, yet a permanent fact of life.
Thanks for sharing that. I admit I was a bit oblivious to the troubles mature men could experience after a divorce. My parents are divorced and my father emotionally absent (though physically involved in our lives) and I feel I was sort of primed to think "men don't have feelings, just urges". Allow me some artistic freedom with the above phrase. I hope you get what I mean. Anyway, you opened my mind a bit. Thank you.
“The family is a myth but it’s a myth that makes men tolerably useful”
Wow powerful thought and statement..🤔
What a fantastic conversation, 👍 very deep and out of the box thinking, LOVE IT. ❤️ As a mum with a son and daughter THANK YOU. ☺️ Chris Williamson you are my favourite podcast on TH-cam now, you dig deep in to things, not just say the same black and white topics that are on here all the time. Keep up the fantastic work, it's very much appreciated 👍😊
I strongly disagree with you madam, about out of the box conversation , and also about depth of it.Whhat i see here is two depradessed man talking a same story from slightly different angle, and not saying anything really new.And that is actually depressing 😊
Developing educational goals and helping both male and female students to their learning process in connection to test scores in all fifty states.
The problem with statements like 'no evidence [anyone is saying certain things]' is easily disproven by hearing someone say that thing.
Typical throw away test words
Reeves is a leftist
Yea... sorry Chris he was okay but weak in comparison to other discussions. He is viewing his information through a pretty thick feminist lens that he isn't even aware of. Thank you for different perspective.
No. He just looked at reality and both genders equally
He's controlled opposition, a snake
@@Yomel123 you can't look at reality and both genders equally cause in reality both gender are not equal
@@stephensharper4312 women aren’t treated equally that’s why we have feminism.
@@Yomel123 Women aren't equal to men, that's WHY we are not treated equally. The whole concept is stupid. And on the second account, the reason we have feminism is to rationalize equal labor force participation. It's a psyop
Thanks for having these conversations. They are needed.
People will take it seriously when it’s women’s issue or an issue affecting women. Till then nothing changes.
I agree there's no "explicit" discrimination against boys. But just like with how women in the 70s and 80s, there was no explicit discrimination getting education but they still didn't do as great as men yet we describe their experience as discrimination.
Why are you trying to excuse how boys are being misguided? Richard Reeves, let's pray your boys won't un-alive themselves with how much of a "caring" attitude you have for boys/men.
The studies showed female teachers mark male students more harshly but if he remove the genders and names the marks are similar in girls and boys proving an inherent bias to make down boys
@Fenwick They got so much sympathy that men made laws to protect women, to give them opportunities, etc.
How uneducated are you to not know how history has showed that men have always prioritiezed the safety of women?
@Fenwick I have seen you comment on almost every post with quite harsh feminist rhetoric. This merely furthers the argument that feminists like you want supremecy and revenge, not equality.
No explicit discrimination against boys?
In a recent study the marks of boys improved by 30% when the female teachers were made to check unnamed copies of the students.
Talk about explicit
@@John__-ie3od Don"t forget women got the vote without a reciprocal requirement. In order to vote men have to make themselves available for military service and risk dying in war if so decided.
In the US men are obliged to register for Selective Service - from which register names are pulled for the draft - upon turning eighteen. If they refuse to register part of the punishment is to lose their right to vote, be imprisoned for five years, fines up to $250,000, a lifelong ban from working Federal jobs and other benefits often including driving licences, among others.
Nothing like that for women; they can simply start voting when they turn eighteen.
To give the Richard his dues, I think he's right on boys starting later at school. That said, the man doesn't speak to me or for me - If the answer given is for men to be more like women, I'm not interested in it. And so much of this interview was that, and just a real feminist bent. I think the bit that crystalised it, was when he said women's liberation has been great for women with real side effects (not negative, just real). We'll see if the gap for over 30's women being childless goes the same way it has with education. I think it probably will. He can chat about Afghanistan and how they need to do more for women, I've much greater confidence that that will endure than the experiment we're running in the west.
I don't know, I just found this really bleak, especially at the end when the takeaway is think how much worse it could have been without videogames and adult entertainment. Great. I'll make sure to thank the demons on my back before bed.
Yeah this guy was a bit jarring to me, he evidently agrees with pretty much everything feminism proposes and the only reason he is concerned about some aspects now is because the negative effects are becoming this obvious. And as a result his position and solutions come of very incoherent, especially the entertainment bit or how a society can surely just all go into the service industry, who needs industry anyway since we can all clearly see right now that dependecies don't get exploited and trade routes are undistruptable.
And I always have and will find the premise very mechanistic and cynical, that women or people generally are only judged on how capable in life they are or how happy and fullfilled they could be by how much economic opportunity they have. It's just line-go-up mentality
The IQ verse EQ debate in the business world has slated work culture towards women. I experienced this and documented this in a fortune 100 corporation during my Masters. As more and more women were promoted aggressively into management, Culture changed to favor feminine gender stereotypic traits.
Yet last few years the quality of products dropped and worldwide market is going into collapse. Gender/race over merit killed the industry
Huh? I work in corporate (for 25+ years) and I don't see the EQ going up. All that happens are workshops, talk, talk, talk and then you go back to your desk, same old, same old.
This is true. Seen it first-hand. Needless to say any man in such environment should keep his masculine energy in check to survive.
Mindful of this video, I looked at the staff list on the website of the primary school in north east England that I attended around 40 years ago. Out of 33 listed staff, including lunchtime supervisors etc, 2 are men. One is a teacher and the other is the caretaker. You can make of that what you will but, if that list only contained a couple of token women, there would be huge multi million pound government led campaigns centred around the recruitment of more women. When the staff are all women, no-one seems to care about that imbalance.
It only counts as sexism when feminists deem it so because they have something to gain
The hypocrisy is overwhelming 😢
Thankfully the schools I attended in the 90s was about 50/50 so yes much better. Still remember some of the female teachers being against me, but unlike male students today.
I can say high school was some of the best years of my life: like the show The .O.C 😊
I was SUCH a tomboy at school and what he said about impulse control and "sensation seeking" explains so much about why I struggled at school... if there were a programme available when I was that age, I'd defo be the one girl in a class of boys 😂
01:07:35 Dr. Farrell in his book "the myth of male power" explained this in great detail.
“I don’t see any active discrimination against boys,” but they are redesigning Aircraft for woman and they have changed vocational education test and exams to suit women.
I purchased the book after hearing u speak on TH-cam a few weeks ago. Thank you!!! I can’t tell you how this makes me feel. I can tell you with certainty now that I my masculinity is more bad than not. Like original sin. That construct needs to go as well. I’m turning 60 in a month and have been on disability since I was 40. I can’t even tell you how being a male on disability makes you feel and ur wife works full time. But I had to do odd jobs under the table on a regular basis because disability didn’t pay well. I’m now out of the closet and it’s worse in this culture. Men want to know what u do for work…🤓
As a man in my 20s this is the most depressing podcast I've ever watched. I was seeking answers but all I got is confirmation of my worries. As a man, I have to be financially ahead of men and women who are 10 years ahead of me and still have the life of a guy in his 20s. It is just a giant mountain of expectations with little to no upside by the end.
Guys are not going to do anything unless it will get respect from women. College just makes men an equal. So men either quit the game, try their best, or quit society and let women carry the stress of the workforce. These things are not social constructs. A man instinctively does not want to be at home nursing children. A return to prioritizing the family over women and men's self-actualization is the only way through this.
I'm glad the subject of videogames' effect was brought up, because as an avid (and female) gamer myself, I'm very tired of games being blamed for everything from mass shootings and sexism to young men's passivity. I'm a graduate in game development, and the vast majority of my fellow students were perfectly well-rounded individuals who engaged in healthy and social activities other than gaming. I play online multiplayer games with guys I from my martial arts group. I've also been asked by a mother who was completely mystified by game development if her son was game addicted. I told her that game sessions can take longer than she might expect, and that as long as her son wasn't neglecting other activities and friends due to them, he likely wasn't addicted. I hope she believed me. At this point, I think it would be really useful to create some kind of resource, like a documentary or a book that demystifies videogames for parents and general laymen, because there's much more to them than it might seem from the outside looking in.
Ok this is like someone from the porn industry telling a parent not to worry about their sons using porn. And pretty disingenuous when you know how free to play game design works. It's deliberate addiction. If you don't know about this there are plenty of industry whistleblowers who can inform you.
@@gilgamecha I wasn't being disingenuous, but I'll admit that I did oversimplify it for brevity. I was addressing the negative stereotypes about gamers and that parents don't tend to know how long a normal gaming session may be. I'm not trying to sell any games, and the ones I've worked on aren't predatory, or aimed at kids.
Yes, especially online multiplayers and MMOs are designed to be addictive and therr's a huge problem with very unethical monetization in the industry. That's a whole other issue in and of itself, but not what I was talking about. It IS, however, part of the reason I would like some sort of educational material about it that's easily understood by parents and legislators that don't know the first thing about gaming. Until the publishers that push these things are stopped from doing so, the best thing to do is to educate parents about these practices. All I'm really asking for is do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are plenty of games, most of them from smaller indie studios, that aren't predatory and have merit. But even the games that are of the type discussed can be played in a healthy way by those who know how to navigate the greedy publishers. Because make no mistake, it's almost always the publisher that wants these things in their games, not those who are actually making the game.
@@CosmicLeche apologies I should not have used the word disingenuous, that was unfair to you.
@@gilgamecha Thank you.
@@CosmicLeche thank you for your detailed response and explanation. I think your suggestions for the industry and parents are a very good idea.
Really enjoyed this one Chris. So much wisdom and knowledge condensed in an hour worth of listen
Bravo gents! 💯 The maturity and momentum building in critical discussions on struggling men and boys' is so encouraging. I appreciate and respect both of you for the great care, intelligence, and wisdom you bring to the debate. Keep up the great work!
Just an observation from me. Please, let me know what you think.
The great paradox of the 'toxic masculinity' rubbish, and probably the most difdicult obstacle to overcome for 'struggling' men and boys, is the role of what I will term 'destructive femininity'.
Yes, I'm going there. It's a sensitive, near unapproachable issue, but its real and it's hurting men and boys enormously. We must face it with sensitivity, courage and conviction.
When we refer to men and boys 'struggling' in certain areas of life, such as education, the employment market, etc, we are careful to identify potential solutions as being within the realm of individual men and boys. However, in my experience, the various programs and campaigns developed to promote gender equality, to empower women and girls, often manifest on the ground, at least in part, as discrimination against, and even oppression of, men and boys. This is, I believe, deliberate and the result of unhelpful, radical, and/or malevolent actors in the sectors, administrative bodies, services delivery organisations, NGOs, etc, that end up delivering the programs and campaigns.
The great paradox of this 'toxic masculinity' rubbish is that similarly destructive, dysfunctional elements of feminist identity and/or culture have been promoted, funded, and actively deployed, focussing as much on undermining and diminishing men and boys as promoting and empowering women and girls. The binary absolutism in the domestic violence sector (demonising innocent men, utterly ignoring victimised men, and granting unconditional, inappropriate relief from accountability/responsibility for manipulative, violent, and/or abusive women) is the most obvious, extreme example of 'destructive' feminist forces at play.
The one sentence summary, the elephant in the room that everyone is afraid to point out, is this: toxic femininity is real, it is active and empowered in our communities, and it is having increasingly destructive impacts in the lives of men and boys and the broader social fabric.
It feels impossible to even approach the issues, let alone develop and progress solutions. But for the sake of 'struggling' men, boys, and their communities, we've got to engage with it and try to move forward.
We all have roles to play. Well-funded, politically connected, and sufficiently motivated men and women, along with women leaders in relevant sectors, administrative bodies, and service delivery organisations, should be leading the way. But everyone is conspicuously silent. Worse, they're all lining up in totalitarian conga lines that increasingly resemble the horrible, dystopian communist experiments from last century.
Anyhow, would love to hear your thoughts on the issues above.
Once again, keep up the great work!
Matt
Oh, and the same unaccountable, incorruptible feminist elements are hard at work in other areas too. For example, disability insurance schemes folles out around the world in the last 20 years or so are more about securing ongoing, multi-billion dollar annual budgets to fund the creation and maintenance of the female-dominated disability care sector than the needs of people with a disability.
The same approach, or similar variant, has been applies in all female-dominated sectors. Health and education are the oldest and most entrenched regimes, but aged care, mental health, early childhood, etc, have all fallen like dominoes.
It's like clockwork in Australia. Some massive campaign/lobbying of govt occurs over the course of a few years. Some crisis requiring billions to address. They build the evidence-base along the way, usually from a real but relatively minor baseline, into a menacing, urgent crisis/emergency. Sure enough, result is massive new funding regime for a particular female-dominated sector, timelines, plans, etc.
During the activist/lobbying period, female-dominated organisations, NGOs, etc, had been lining up their ducks, congregating and occupying the business space where the interventions were intended to occur. So, announcements made, funding flows, and the primary benefits, funding, economic impact, manifests for female-led businesses, organisations, workers, etc, in the sector. Not for the people/issue for which the funding was allocated.
Furthermore, homeless are largely older men. Feminists lobby for funding for POTENTIAL flood of homeless women. Who gets funding? POTENTIAL homeless women, not ACTUAL homeless men.
Suicides are largely men. Feminists lobby for funding for young women, generate a false or misleading narrative around mental health. Who gets SUICIDE funding? Young women who aren't even committing suicide, not older men who ARE in droves.
Repeat as nauseum.
Any views?
From a low resolution, critical view of capitalism, I don't have a problem with it at all. The exploitative, disgusting gravy train of capitalist corporate/govt actors for many decades, since the industrial revolution, has had economic/fiscal implications infinitely more unfair and inequitable than historically disadvantaged groups like women, carers, immigrants, etc, recently securing long-overdue slice of the pie.
Buuuuut, there is a stench of corruption, criminal conspiracy, and, pertinent to this subject, active victimisation of out-groups like working class men, disabled people, etc.
Is toxic femininity real? Or is it just the corresponding female corruption to that of male corruption in the corporate world?
It feels like a bargain between them actually. Deliberate, calculated outcomes.
Rich elite agree to bigger slice of pie for historically disadvantaged 'minority' groups, who happen to make up the majority of voters. Women, more than half the vote, somehow qualify as a minority group, and draw in all the other ACTUAL minority groups like disabled people, elderly, immigrants, LGBTI, etc
Working class men in western countries have been getting slaughtered for decades and nobody cares.
It's by design.
19:22 I quit my fine art degree because of overt discrimination against men
BA in art here (watercolor focus) - Can agree. I had many female professors openly treat me like shit.
@@greensmurf221 Yeah, it's systemic and endemic. They basically strut around marking their territory and patting themselves on the back for bringing down the patriarchy one man at a time.
I'm a guy and I started school a year early. So I graduated when I was 17. Ive had lots of issues post high school. I'm realizing it was a disadvantage to be started a year early especially considering I was a shy kid to begin with.
This is very interesting! Do you mind sharing a bit more what issues? My brother also started a year early so I am very interested.
Great points made, particularly that a difference does not imply discrimination. This is crucial for all of the woke activists, victim-identity advocates, SJWs. Differences are worth discussing, but until discrimination is found, a difference is a point of interest, not a justification to eradicate social institutions or give handouts. It is a total failure of logic to see difference and assume that "equity" is the solution.
For K-12 education, we're talking about a female-dominated institution. That means classrooms are mostly led by females who innately understand (and sympathise with) female behaviour, even without the politics of labelling male behaviour as "toxic". That's relevant. Students seem better able to identify with a teacher of the same sex. Schools are historically static - children in rooms being passively educated. The exploratory nature of children, especially boys, disadvantages them in static environments. And rather than accepting the exploratory nature of boys as innate, it's pathologised as an attention deficit. If schools were changed to more interactive and dynamic, it would likely favour boys to the disadvantage of girls.
I hadn't heard about the proposal for staggered starting ages for boys and girls. It seems like it would narrow certain gaps, especially in pre-pubescent children, but may also create social issues during the pubescent years.
I think that the way forward is that curriculae have a core co-ed component, a single sex component, and free electives, with heavier weighting for the first two. It may also be better to have multiple ways of assessment, with weighting adjusted per student for their stronger results. This would reduce gaps for people who don't test well, or don't do planned assignments well, etc. My other idea has long been that we end age cohorts, notwithstanding the staggered starting point that was mentioned. But competence in each subject should be the deciding factor in advancement. I would divide the scholastic year into two semesters where advancement can take place. That doubles the opportunities to advance, doubles the opportunities to identify falling short, and removes the stigma of not moving ahead after any given semester.
Shallow guest, and surprisingly uninformed. Example: women earn more than men, not less, in an apples to apples comparison. The 'gap' is explained by such things as women choosing to work fewer hours, choosing to have and raise kids, and choosing less well-paying, less risky, more people-oriented jobs, e.g., social worker vs. millwright. When this guest got that wrong, it made me wonder about his other views. That said, Chris, you did your best to extract the lemonade from this lemon.
The schooling system since it's inception (Prussian Factory Schools) has also been female oriented and now we're seeing it really come to fruition.
What Richard said about the education system being setup to favor girls reminds me of the fact that I always felt like the girls in my classes were always able to become engaged in the mundane tasks and therefore perform better than the guys.
The only other thing that I noticed though is if the girl is too busy being worried about getting attention (from guys) in some fashion they tend to actually do just as bad at focusing on those tasks as the guys in my class, those girls especially in high school I could tell depended on another person usually a man to provide their every being, this might be based but i spent a lot of time with my older brother when he was in highschool and I was just starting middle, all the girls in highschool looked like Women to me, fast forward to my senior year and it felt like I was seeing children looking for constant attention from daddies that they didint have and Boy's looking for some short term gratification because up until this point most of them have done absolutely nothing that they find meaningful and their almost 25% through with their life.
A key issue with the phrase “toxic masculinity” is that the meaning is not clear, perhaps intentionally. Does it mean toxicity that arises in men, whatever the cause, or that there is something toxic about masculinity itself (which men as a group are impliedly responsible for)? The former is conceptually reasonable - you can separate toxic behaviour from its causes (which could be social factors, prior abuse or neglect where women as well as men may have had a part to play). The latter is an unfounded conclusion and seems a lot like victim blaming. This twist allows people to use the term in a slippery way - directing unfounded blame while pretending not to and failing to address root causes.