How Women Could and Couldn’t Lead in the Old Testament: Women in Ministry part 3

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024

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  • @sarahfaith316
    @sarahfaith316 2 ปีที่แล้ว +287

    Video Map for Quick Reference:
    0:00 Introduction & Part 1&2 Recap
    1. 13:49 Miriam as a Leader of Israel
    2. 34:54 Huldah the Prophetess
    3. 42:42 Isaiah’s Wife
    4. 43:54 Noadiah
    5. 47:24 Deborah the Judge
    6. 1:11:28 Jezebel
    7. 1:14:15 Athaliah
    8. 1:16:57 Esther
    9. 1:35:09 Why Weren’t Women Priests?
    10. 1:49:57 Conclusions
    11. 1:50:58 Coming Up Next in Part 4

    • @HopeKuhn
      @HopeKuhn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I like this 👌🏻! Good job @Sarah 😃

    • @sarahfaith316
      @sarahfaith316 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@HopeKuhn Yay!! Thank you!! ❤️🎊💕

    • @ericedwards8902
      @ericedwards8902 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Welcome back!

    • @sarahfaith316
      @sarahfaith316 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@ericedwards8902 Thank you!!

    • @ericedwards8902
      @ericedwards8902 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @Yoel Cohen Since Mike Winger nor Sarah Zimmerman won't answer you this way, I will: Did you watch the video? No. Because if you had you would know what was actually communicated about those particular examples. They were not on any list to prove that they were leaders of Israel, but to be explored since both complinentarians and egalitarians use them to prove separate points. Pastor Winger generally agrees with what you point out...and you would have know that if you had WATCHED THE VIDEO before jumping on here to flex about studying the law.

  • @sidehoe3370
    @sidehoe3370 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1084

    I wanna just show some appreciation for the amount of work this guy puts into his job, and the personal dedication he shows through that.

    • @cherylcogan3542
      @cherylcogan3542 2 ปีที่แล้ว +32

      Same here. Mike is saying that this is an exhaustive study and I'm thinking that he must have been exhausted from all his research on the subject..

    • @krustysurfer
      @krustysurfer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      Glory to God for Pastor Mikes mind and heart especially his gentle instruction.

    • @LaurenFrancesHair
      @LaurenFrancesHair 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Amen

    • @sarahfaith316
      @sarahfaith316 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@krustysurfer Amen! All while being the very best boss to work for! :)

    • @reliancemedia7
      @reliancemedia7 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Mike is the bomb. As a woman I have struggled in these areas. And this series has given me such a sense of relief! God has answered my prayers through this study and Pastor Mike Winger.

  • @friedrichrubinstein
    @friedrichrubinstein 2 ปีที่แล้ว +452

    Please keep not caring about offending people by saying the truth, Mike. Never bow down to society! _And whoever really values what the Bible says will not be offended anyway._

    • @Sahl-Amander
      @Sahl-Amander 2 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      The Bible will still offend you. Even if you are a believer. Because we're wicked.

    • @TamaraGrace
      @TamaraGrace 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Thank you for speaking up there. Yes, the Bible will most assuredly step on some toes. James 3:17 is what I use as a guide before allowing doctorine in... If it doesn't line up, while my toes are being stepped on, then I don't fully recieve it. However, I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. You don't have to agree with me, to go to heaven. And I don't have to agree with you... However, if it makes you, or me, study my Bible more, then surely it brings life. But, if it pushes me away, then destruction.... We can't be arrogant with our brothers and sisters, because Jesus said it's better a millstone to be tied around one's neck, and cast into the sea, if one was to offend one of His little ones... With that conviction, that's when I'd personally, feel a little more comfortable with moving forward, with my words.
      Thank you so much for speaking up here, because we all get stretched, and if we don't....

    • @karlhenderson1908
      @karlhenderson1908 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      I appreciate Mike's soft approach and tact.
      I have encountered many people who have been unnecessarily offensive.
      Thank you Mike.

    • @overthinkingchristian8732
      @overthinkingchristian8732 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I lean toward an egalitarian approach out of respect for the Bible and *not* because of society. To broad-brush all egalitarians as bowing to societal pressure is untrue. I bow to the text of Scripture before I do to secular *or* church culture...

    • @wordsofjames
      @wordsofjames ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@overthinkingchristian8732 the bible doesn't support your leaning

  • @miroticfashion
    @miroticfashion 2 ปีที่แล้ว +368

    It's incredible how people can write books and articles, even quote the scripture but be totally twisting what the bible actually says, scary! Thank God for discerning pastors like you Mike 🙏🏾

    • @christiskingforever2880
      @christiskingforever2880 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      I was shocked by that too.

    • @philipparish2990
      @philipparish2990 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      I find it interesting how just reading the scripture in their language they still don't get it right, even before they add culture, context & language of when it was written.

    • @Lyleartist
      @Lyleartist 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I was taught that man writes books, God wrote the Bible, follow God not man.

    • @highlightning6693
      @highlightning6693 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      I was just thinking something very similar while listening. They write these books, take a small piece of scripture and then blow it wayyyy out of proportion into some elaborate thing that tries to hammer it into their favorite ungodly ideology. It's wearisome, frankly.

    • @staceyforehand9513
      @staceyforehand9513 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Amen

  • @allieoneal2033
    @allieoneal2033 2 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    I'm leading the music in church for the first time tomorrow, and it's such an encouragement to hear about all of these women who God used to lead His people in praise. Thank you!

    • @dawnmcknight3890
      @dawnmcknight3890 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      even so woman or not to exercise authority over or teach a man and have no place in ministry
      1Timothy 2

    • @kishredbird3599
      @kishredbird3599 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@dawnmcknight3890if you ever make it to 2nd Timothy you'd read about Paul commending Tim's Mother and Grandmother for being great teachers to him

    • @toddthacker8258
      @toddthacker8258 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      ​@dawnmcknight3890 Leading worship doesn't involve teaching OR exercising authority, so not sure why this is relevant?

    • @allieoneal2033
      @allieoneal2033 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@toddthacker8258 perhaps saying "please stand" is exercising too much authority ;) LOLOL

    • @toddthacker8258
      @toddthacker8258 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      @@allieoneal2033 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I'm pretty much a soft complementarian myself, I guess, but we should be very cautious about putting (or unnecessarily expanding) restrictions on people not actually found in Scripture. I mean, it seems like Deborah led worship in Judges 5.

  • @daverogg8701
    @daverogg8701 2 ปีที่แล้ว +182

    “Excited.” Are you kidding???? Mike, this is all beautifully exciting! I’m in awe of not only the research you’re doing, but the way you present it, by keeping it with a heart of humility, fairness, and genuine concern for those who hold to either view. You’re a true godly man. I thank you for all you’ve done and are doing. I’m so blessed by your ministry!!!!

    • @anabaird3835
      @anabaird3835 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼!!!

    • @hminchella7423
      @hminchella7423 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Very well put. ❤

  • @bethfrawley451
    @bethfrawley451 2 ปีที่แล้ว +175

    I really appreciate you, Mike! I have been in several heated debates on women in ministry and your presentation is balanced and seems deeply rooted in Scripture. Thank you for your many hours of study and preparation.

  • @waitingandwatching9328
    @waitingandwatching9328 2 ปีที่แล้ว +38

    Thanks Mike for another great teaching. As a Christian woman I truly love to see men functioning in the capacity God created them for, I'm also willing to be obedient to God and fill in where ever He desires me to.

  • @TheEllaTB
    @TheEllaTB 2 ปีที่แล้ว +106

    Thank you for this study. I have struggled accepting Biblical female roles because it was presented all wrong, but as I have accepted God's word for my life I find it more freeing and like I am accomplishing more by staying within my boundaries.

    • @TamaraGrace
      @TamaraGrace 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      James 3:17

    • @alstroemeria227again4
      @alstroemeria227again4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Yes girl! Me too. My husband leads but he also needs to take responsibility. That thought is so freeing to me!

    • @j-mshistorycorner6932
      @j-mshistorycorner6932 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Internalised sexism.

    • @alstroemeria227again4
      @alstroemeria227again4 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@j-mshistorycorner6932 "Internalized sexism" LOL! Where do you people come up with these terms?

    • @j-mshistorycorner6932
      @j-mshistorycorner6932 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@alstroemeria227again4 From real-world observations.

  • @KayElayempea
    @KayElayempea 2 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    I am pretty strongly complementarian. Growing up I loved learning about the women in the Old Testament. I love that they heard from God and were involved in everyday life. They were important enough that their names were recorded, even some women that just inherited property or were involved in non-leadership roles. It reminds me of a sermon I heard recently about how God knows each of our names, irregardless of how important we are in society.

  • @kristinawillis9486
    @kristinawillis9486 2 ปีที่แล้ว +101

    I really can't tell you enough how much I appreciate you doing this. I am a complementarian as well, but I've felt like the subject has been oversimplified by our side and usually comes across as unimportant. Thank you for taking the time to study this complex topic and teach it in an organized clear way with kindness and humility.

    • @JC-li8kk
      @JC-li8kk ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Nothing against women, but something doesn’t feel right about a woman leading a group of men. I say that as a shame to the men, for not stepping up as leaders. Not to the woman who is forced to step up because men won’t. I also wouldn’t feel right with a man leading a group of women, but for a completely different reason. Maybe the fact we see Jesus as a male figure is what makes it feel more natural & fitting to be led by men.

    • @viperstriker4728
      @viperstriker4728 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@JC-li8kk I suspect the feeling is just perception of what you have grown up seeing. I don't mean to dismiss it or imply it could have been any different though. As far as I know every culture has had vast majority of male leaders. That would form our perception and shape feelings about it.
      If I had to guess it is due to pregnancy. Almost consequence in life is worst for women then men. With pregnancy being the ultimate example of this. So if you do this "we split the bill" thing, that will lead to huge inequality over time. The deck has to be stacked in women's favor socially to make up for biology. So in marriage more responsibility is put on men as this balancing force. Responsibility turns into the power we think of as leadership. So basically if the guy isn't deadbeat, all other things being equal, the men will be in a leader position. Shame to men for not stepping up is correct.
      Though I will point out, if i am correct then this would apply far less to a women without children. I think that is why many feminists push so hard against having kids.

    • @JC-li8kk
      @JC-li8kk 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@viperstriker4728 I’m just speaking from a biblical point of view. Every single scripture we have was written by a man. Why do you think that is? Even the book of Esther & Ruth were written by men.

    • @viperstriker4728
      @viperstriker4728 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@JC-li8kk I don't disagree with your conclusion, as the Bible plainly states men are the head of the house and church. But your argument of every book being written by men is both unprovable and irrelevant.
      By emphasizing that it was written by men you just leave open the attack of it being created to oppress women, which is what feminists say about basically any historical document.
      So instead I would recommend you use the contents of the Bible to back up your belief. And beware of the genetic fallacy.

  • @merrygrammarian1591
    @merrygrammarian1591 2 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    Each time one of these videos comes out, I think, "But what's the rule? How do we apply it to today???" And then I have to stop myself and remind myself it's an exercise in starting with the Bible. I see the intentionality in the way you've chosen to teach this, and I'm so appreciative.

    • @markhorton3994
      @markhorton3994 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      This is a course not a single teaching. Pastor Winger will get to every aspect of his subject.

  • @leoosta7862
    @leoosta7862 2 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    Mike Winger is one of the best and biblically sound teachers today. My wife and I have been diving into this series and we love how Mike stands on biblical truth.
    Thank you for this series Mike & tackling these taboo (although not sure why it is) subjects. Keep it up!

  • @stacie4610
    @stacie4610 2 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    Really thankful for your time and the effort you put into this series! I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anyone speak before with the same emphasis and interest in real bible truth as you do. I especially appreciate your neutral approach to every topic which allows Gods word to speak for itself. Studying with you leaves me feeling fed and inspires me to grow more in my love for God’s word. Thank you- our family is praying for yours!

    • @loribarnard5354
      @loribarnard5354 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      My thoughts exactly!!☺️

    • @JC-li8kk
      @JC-li8kk ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes, I still can’t tell you which side of the fence he’s on. He says complimentarian but he’s more of a hybrid in my opinion. I would never say women have no place in leadership in any circumstance. I think it would be more ideal to have men leaders for a group of men or mixed group, & women leaders overseeing children & a group of women with also some male figure to collaborate with or check in with. As a man I am always checking in with my mother & wife to see how my ideologies & interpretation of scripture compliment or conflict with theirs so this doesn’t only apply to women. Man needed a helper for a reason. We aren’t meant to go it alone without women especially when it comes to the fullness of ministry. The church would not be complete without women. When life is going great it’s fine to be surrounded by men. But when life knocks the wind out of you there is nothing like the love & compassion & encouragement of a good woman to get you back on your feet.

  • @warrensaunders
    @warrensaunders 2 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Mike, what I appreciate most about your ministry is how respectfully you present all sides of a topic or study. Even when you present your own views on something, you do so with complete respect and humility. I wish all Christian ministry channels could operate the way that you do. Thanks for your hard work and ministry.

  • @bethann0808
    @bethann0808 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    Thank you for your extensive research on this topic. I know of several female pastors (went to the ordination of one) and I have never felt comfortable around Pastor's who are female. Listening to this teaching is helping me to see if my discernment is just me or from the Lord. I will continue through the series, God willing.

    • @torikirsty9075
      @torikirsty9075 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thanks for your comment. I only started giving thought to women “pastors” about five years or so ago when I felt uncomfortable sitting under the teaching of any visiting female pastors at church, but have difficulty in explaining why. I’m thankful for Mikes clear patient teaching for people like myself who struggle to articulate in debates. Hopefully by the end of this study I’ll be more solid and confident in my understanding and discernment.

    • @gigahorse1475
      @gigahorse1475 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@torikirsty9075 My college seems to believe it’s a sin to not hire a woman as the college’s pastor. And they are all insane and liberal (they would be if they were men, to be clear). The first time I went to a church service the pastor butchered the interpretation when the interpretation was given a chapter later (it was the parable of the seeds). She also reverently sang “Party in the USA.” I’m not kidding.

    • @nccrchurchunusual
      @nccrchurchunusual ปีที่แล้ว

      My husband & I are both Ordained Ministers. Women should be ministers to women- what a mission field! "Older women- teach the younger women..."

  • @Aevans786
    @Aevans786 2 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    Your first video was dripping with wisdom. If we don't come with that willingness to receive whatever God's word says there's no sense of us even listening to the rest of this series

  • @jtut7047
    @jtut7047 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I appreciate the slow, careful, thoughtful, humble, and detailed work on these sets of videos on women in ministry. As a woman, I really want to know what the Bible says about this, and not just follow the cultural trends. As I mentor other women, I need to have a good Biblical view of this! Thank you for your countless hours of research and for always taking this issue to the Word of God, IN CONTEXT, to see what God says about it!

  • @atennisn
    @atennisn 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    I am still making my way through the video - but I want to 'Thank You' for tackling this series!! It is much needed.

  • @Rabbit_Person
    @Rabbit_Person 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    This was more interesting and exciting than any Hollywood movie! I feel very satisfied with the section on Deborah. Can't wait for the next part

    • @maryprice8458
      @maryprice8458 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Amen! Well said!

  • @BeeMum2U
    @BeeMum2U 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Been waiting for this forever!! SO appreciative of the time, energy and heart you've put into this topic. 😊 Thank you. Very much. A lot.
    Prayerfully,
    Fellow Bible Nerd 🤓 📖

  • @gospelrap11
    @gospelrap11 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Well done, Mike! As usual, God's word does not wholly affirm either of the human 'sides' we've made... but that doesn't mean both sides are off-base in equal proportion!

  • @zechparker4748
    @zechparker4748 2 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    This is super enlightening for me as a young Christian!!! Thanks for the incredible content bro 🙏

  • @JessicaMcColloch
    @JessicaMcColloch 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    A lack of peace is one of the fruits I’ve seen from the female pastors I’ve been around. While I love them and know they genuinely love Jesus, I believe there’s a reason for their underlying unease and defensiveness. Pastor Mike, I can’t thank you enough for the effort you’ve been putting into this tough topic and heated debate!!

  • @mizzstar21
    @mizzstar21 2 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    Such a blessing Pastor Mike! Just to add more, I think the argument that person was trying to make was regarding Leviticus 15:19-33. Both men and women who had bodily emissions, were to be excluded from the Tabernacle. But I am assuming she was trying to present the argument that for women, automatically every month they would be considered ‘unclean’, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to be priests, as the priests had to be the ones to purify the ‘unclean’ before the Lord. Just guessing though!

    • @bribri8232
      @bribri8232 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That's what I was thinking. And because the exact timing of childbirth and menstruation cannot be determined to me this is an indirect reason why women should not serve as priests. Obviously not the main reason but it's a really good one of my opinion

  • @jeffwarren6906
    @jeffwarren6906 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wonderful teaching Pastor Mike . I believe I can speak for many watching and following your teaching , in that even with Bible software and access to volumes of research in our grasp , we could never dig as deep and pull out the massive amounts of factual data that you produce .. I have told you and your wife in comments before that i've followed J Vernon McGee for 45yrs + and he has been a main source for my Bible study ,, well you have now { in my heart & mind } been promoted to equal status with him . I've went through the 5yr Bible Bus trip 5 times , read his commentaries , pamphlets , transcripts of sermons & lectures , etc , etc . You Sir have given me more information , and alot of it new info than J Vernon has .. I wish he was alive so he could see your dedication , devotion & motivation to give those you teach everything they could possibly need to learn to think biblically about everything ,, he would be so proud of your loyality to the Word of God . I am proud to have donated to your ministry , and will continue to everytime i'm able to .. I believe that every believer should give back to those they get the most from .. I have NEVER seen you once during rebuttals , or clarifying an incorrect teaching , or in answers to rude Athiests , give anything other than a solid defense of His Word and no personal attacks back at them . You are a good Man Pastor and I hope one day when we are with Christ in Gods glorious kingdom , that He will show you how many souls are there because you lead them to the foot of the Cross of Jesus Christ . God Bless your Wife Pastor Mike , without her support , you would not be able to do the mass amount of work you do .. You two are an AWESOME team ..

  • @midnightwatchman1
    @midnightwatchman1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +18

    being a prophet or prophetess does not mean you always talk about the future means you are divinely inspired to speak the word of God.

    • @debblouin
      @debblouin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Edification, exhortation, and comfort. That is, in my opinion, why Paul encouraged the church at Corinth to desire prophecy for the health and building up of the body.

    • @edbenjamin5136
      @edbenjamin5136 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@debblouin edification is teaching - helping the church learn.

    • @samtv6447
      @samtv6447 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      For me I believe due to the end time fall of men just like in those days God is calling women to ministry because even the Bible says that God will raise stones to worship him

  • @barbaracupper8991
    @barbaracupper8991 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thank you for putting so much research into this and sharing it with us. I’ve just begun working on a degree in ministry so it’s helpful to get as much information as possible on women in ministry. I’m not wanting to step out of any God-placed boundaries but I do want to be fully confident that when it’s time to step into my future position I will be confident that it is a God honouring role.

  • @Henriette-van-der-Ende
    @Henriette-van-der-Ende 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thank you pastor Mike for having the courage to stay biblical and not just following what popular scholars are saying, from both sides. Looking forward for the next episode.

  • @deborahsmiley1304
    @deborahsmiley1304 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Thank you so much for your teaching. I appreciate the inclusion of the context of Scripture. I’ve been a pastor although I no longer serve in that role. I’ve changed my understanding even before watching your videos.

  • @leahwatkins2318
    @leahwatkins2318 2 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    I'm so grateful for your ministry, and for this series specifically.
    In your opinion, is there a place for a complementarian women in seminary school? I have no intention of taking on a leadership role, but I am deeply interested in and passionate about theology and apologetics. Is there any valid reason for me to pursue that at a scholarly level?

    • @MikeWinger
      @MikeWinger  2 ปีที่แล้ว +80

      I think so. But I’ll share more about all that as the series progresses.

    • @williambrowning4842
      @williambrowning4842 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

      I can think of at least three serious and one humorous reason why a complementarian woman would go to seminary. 1. This is intellectually fulfilling. 2. The study helps us know more about God, and potentially grow closer to Him. 3. This could help her in her own future ministry to other women and children. 4. You might meet and marry a future pastor (MRS degree).

    • @sherryannutto855
      @sherryannutto855 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      That's a great question! I have the same thoughts and situation.

    • @droe2570
      @droe2570 2 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I'm not sure why a woman should not go to school.... We must all learn the scriptures and teach them, as well, whether in formal settings or informal ones.

    • @SeanWinters
      @SeanWinters 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@williambrowning4842 the Mrs degree is paramount.

  • @davidmauchly4689
    @davidmauchly4689 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    I was hoping you would talk about Sheba. She seems like an interesting example of a queen, without a husband who is good and wise. Now she is a foreigner and does come to pay her respects to Solomon. It’s just a very interesting story to add to this.

  • @Nighthawkinlight
    @Nighthawkinlight 2 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    One thing I came across in researching the early church is in Pliny's letter to Trajan regarding Christians in the early 100's AD he says this: "Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses."
    Interesting that so early on there were women in the church who identified by that title. Then I found that Phoebe is called a deaconess in Romans 16:1. Deacon can translate simply to helper or servant, but I think in the context especially of Pliny's letter that he understood it to be a title. That gives me pause as I consider how much should be read into the gender specific language of qualifiers in 1 Tim 3:8-13. I don't know enough Greek to know if there would have been a simple way to give similar instructions in gender neutral language, like "a deacon should be faithful to one spouse" rather than "the husband of one wife". If the church in Pliny's jurisdiction was privy to Paul's letters to Timothy by then (which I think is likely as they had a position called deacon) it seems they did not interpret the qualifications as a hard statement of gender specificity. Keeping in mind that the particular church the deaconesses were part of may not have had perfect doctrine, but it still seems significant as a very early example.

    • @jordandthornburg
      @jordandthornburg 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Can you give that exact citation?

    • @Nighthawkinlight
      @Nighthawkinlight 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@jordandthornburg I just tried leaving a comment with a link but it got auto removed by the comment spam filter. If you Google "Pliny's letter to Trajan" several sites will come up with the letter in full. It's not long. The quote about the deaconesses is from the end of the second to last paragraph.

    • @RobTheTruth
      @RobTheTruth 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I'm sure even in greek husband means husband

    • @Nighthawkinlight
      @Nighthawkinlight 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @@RobTheTruth Yes, but language does not always use words in rigid specificity. For example, Jesus uses gender specific words in saying "everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgement". It is by common sense that we understand Jesus's use of "his" and "brother" does not exclude the application of the saying to women also. Sometimes gender specific terms do carry the intent of limiting application, and sometimes they are used to exemplify broader application. In a case where it really matters in which way the language is being used (as in 1 Tim 3) it's worth some careful study before making a definitive conclusion.

    • @kolbywilliams7234
      @kolbywilliams7234 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Whether a deacon is a male or female doesn’t matter unless you are trying to claim that women cannot serve in ministry at all, or that a deacon is the same as a priest or elder. There are no biblical restrictions for deacons because deacons can serve in many capacities, but are not what Paul would refer to as “spiritual authorities” or an overseer.
      Are you saying that a deacon is the same as an elder or priest according to scripture?
      If you are concerned about husband only meaning “spouse” in this instance, the Greek word does mean husband. It is the same word used for Joseph being the husband of Mary, and any time it is used outside a marriage context, it is used to mean a “man.” 1 Timothy 3:2 could be read either as “husband of one wife,” or “man of one woman.” Both mean the same thing and are explicitly referring to a man being married to a woman.

  • @andywebb4861
    @andywebb4861 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Brother I have been waiting for this series and am so thankful for you and how seriously and thoroughly you handle scripture in this topic. As someone with a desire to help bring more exegetical teaching and biblical thinking into my church body (to clarify I’m a layperson in the church) I have been extremely blessed by your ministry. Thank you for feeding the sheep!

  • @michaelscoggins8949
    @michaelscoggins8949 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey brother, I just want to thank you and tell you how much of a blessing you have been in my growth as a Christian. Your thoughtfulness, meekness, and humbleness that goes with your teaching has been eye opening to me as a preacher and teacher. But, above all I am thankful that you prioritize biblical thinking and what the Word says above all else! I'll be praying for you and this series because it has opened my eyes and shown me where I was using my preconceived notions when reading and understanding this important issue!

  • @tiredoftheworld4834
    @tiredoftheworld4834 2 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Yes! I also wanted to say, before I watched the video, that, the pagan nations had many priestess, who had a lot of goddess/moon goddesses worship. God wanted to set Israel apart. And as a woman I have no problem with that. People who are feminists usually lean to paganism and goddess worship. The things of God are hated by people in the world all the time. Even without it being about complimentarianism, he wanted his nation to be set apart

    • @carmensavu5122
      @carmensavu5122 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Are you Jewish? According to your own words, if you are not Jewish, the commands of the biblical god do not apply to you.

    • @0NoOne1nParticular
      @0NoOne1nParticular ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@carmensavu5122 what a silly comment carmen LOL. everyone; jew, scythian or barbarian should follow the commands of God.

    • @0NoOne1nParticular
      @0NoOne1nParticular ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@carmensavu5122 ohhh nvm you aint just being silly, you're serious, i now realize you're in everyones replies whining and insulting them. i pray your heart stops being so full of hate

    • @JesusHasSavedUs
      @JesusHasSavedUs 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@0NoOne1nParticular😂

  • @alybd3470
    @alybd3470 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Mike is my new favorite. So analytical and genuine, and always seems to ask the questions a lot of us are so curious about.

  • @allisontyrrell2560
    @allisontyrrell2560 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you so much for doing this series! It seems I'm in places/situations where culture/society has these hard fast rules and my questioning causes conflict. This in, and of itself, raises flags and causes me to dig deeper too. I very much appreciate your deeper dives and sharing the various views that people hold. You are indeed helping others to think biblically and not ‘religiously.’
    The overarching thing that I keep seeing is for all to remember God's intention when He created man and woman. God designed men with strengths and women with strengths (and both men and women have weaknesses). When strengths are combined from both genders, they not only compliment each other, but cover the weaknesses we each have. Neither gender is ‘above,’ the other but there is an order. This is neither good nor bad. Men are physically and mentally built different than women. Women have DIFFERENT strengths that are designed BY GOD to compliment men. This is powerful to realize for both genders. To exclude the other half because of the desire to not ‘need’ the other gender’s input, strengths, gifts etc., hinders the COMBINED strength that COULD be developed.
    Even taking a 'side' as Egalitarian or Complementarian hinders us. Both 'sides' have excellent considerations. Imagine combining the best of both views (and covering the weaknesses of each view).
    In my opinion, God's IDEAL would most likely use strengths from both sides of the view spectrum as well as use the strengths of both men and women. If there's a group of only men leading, they miss the perspective a wise woman can give. Does a group need to be half men and half women? I personally don't believe so; ONE wise woman’s perspective is enough to keep it ‘balanced.’
    I'm picturing a group of 10 people leading….A group of 10 men aren't as ‘strong’ or wise as a group of 9 men and 1 wise woman would or could be. If they completely exclude her because of pride or a hard fast rule they're looking to uphold, I believe they're missing the IDEAL God set in place when He created us for each other. They are hindered and don't even realize it. Likewise, a group of 9 women will benefit from just 1 wise male present to share insights only males have.
    It seems as though many people are looking for an absolute or a specific formula to follow, but I don't believe God works that way.
    May God continue to open the hearts of those truly desiring to seek His truth, His ideal, and His perspective. May our eyes be open to see truth. May our ears be open to hear wisdom, and may our hearts be open to be led in God's intention for us.

  • @user-ux3bt1zw5e
    @user-ux3bt1zw5e 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I so appreciate your reasoned approach to potentially divisive topics. I love the length of your videos and the logical way you arrange the material you are sharing. Thank you for the work you are doing! So many “sermons” now are so short as to be worthless and it seems that true biblical study is rare. You fill a gaping void and teach us the proper way to approach and reason through what the Bible has to say. Thank you!!!

  • @mariebo7491
    @mariebo7491 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I reaaaallly appreciate what you’re doing here and that you’re taking the time to be thorough. It’s so needed.

  • @yalondahill3345
    @yalondahill3345 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Really enjoying these thought provoking, insightful presentations. You cleared up some questions and misunderstandings I had about Deborah.
    My husband and I watch these together and discuss many of your points.
    Thank you for tackling this topic with concise Biblical instruction.

  • @lauranewberry2329
    @lauranewberry2329 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I appreciate your time spent on the topic of women. Bring raised in a Christian (but with feminist ideations), it caused such destruction and confusion in my own marriage and life as a woman. Knowing God has called me to talk with others about this very thing, led me to more studying than I have ever done as I do not want to lead others down this horribly twisted path. This study led me to your channel, and I couldn't be more grateful!

    • @viperstriker4728
      @viperstriker4728 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      If you wouldn't mind sharing, what sort of destruction? Was there curtain idea in feminism that you think caused curtain effects?
      I'm not married yet and I'm trying to sort out what the gender roles are suppose to be. So any first hand observations would be very helpful.

  • @CityGateJake
    @CityGateJake 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thanks for the thoughtful and objective engagement with both views and the critical engagement of the text. I was greatly blessed!

  • @lesliewells1062
    @lesliewells1062 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thank you for doing this series! You are answering some questions I've had for a long time--like you often do!! I love the way you are showing both sides of the issue, what they say, and then what the Bible says. I appreciate all the many hours you spend researching the Bible and all the sources. I'm sure that is all very time consuming. When I first came back to the Lord--I know now that He was still holding on to me, even though I tried to get away from Him after I left a cult--I felt very uncomfortable about the issue of homosexuality. Even though I knew what the Bible said about it, I actually felt guilty for thinking that my friends and family were sinning by who they were loving. Then I listened to your series on that subject and by the end of it, I felt peace in my heart about what the Bible says. I also wondered if I was or wasn't allowed to get remarried after divorce and I listened to your sermon on that and I know I am and I have peace about that! You have really helped me in some very key issues!! Thank you!

  • @cnramsey
    @cnramsey 2 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    I can't even tell you how excited I am about this series. Thank you so much for wading through the trenches for us.

  • @lilmisspeace
    @lilmisspeace 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Mike, THANK YOU for being intellectually honest when reading the scripture AND holding even these scholars to the same standard.
    I'm a bible college student and read from many scholarly sources. Sometimes I forget to double check what they are saying, but over and over you show how important this crucial step is of reading the scripture that is being leaned on or drawn from to make points.
    ☆ THANK YOU ☆

  • @williamfowler8686
    @williamfowler8686 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love this sort of study. It answers questions I didn't even know I had. It helps prepare me to answer questions I may be faced with from others and it forces me to study on my own just so I know what I think independent of what your teaching is.

  • @allisonlee4080
    @allisonlee4080 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you so much Mike!! This is what I want/need! Not a summary but an in DEPTH study. Praying the Lord blesses your ministry so you can keep sharing. 😭❤️

  • @bella-bee
    @bella-bee 2 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    When you were talking about Eve being made to be a fit helper, I smiled a little to think, Adam needed a helper. We need one another!

    • @bloominmelbourne8020
      @bloominmelbourne8020 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yes, Adam needed Eve's help to be fruitful and multiply

    • @krustysurfer
      @krustysurfer 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes! Absolutely! help mates for each other 😊

    • @nicoleparsons7630
      @nicoleparsons7630 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@bloominmelbourne8020 and to rule and subdue the earth

    • @padillas4357
      @padillas4357 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree, and will take it a step further. The word HELP in Genesis 2:18 (# 5828 in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and Lexicon) is also used in reference to GOD in Exodus 18:4 and Deuteronomy 34:29. The word does not, and can not be understood to mean that the one helping is secondary to or under the authority of the one being helped.

    • @LilJbm1
      @LilJbm1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@nicoleparsons7630 It frustrates me when people underestimate the value and importance of women in supporting men and vice versa. We need one another and when you have a truly supportive wife both of you can really reach your potentials and find the fruits of the spirit. It's a blessing and an invaluable role as supporter and helper. Two "leaders" in a marriage means conflict and butting of heads, whereas one leader and helper means love, support, good deliberation and counsel within the marriage in making big decisions as a couple with less selfishness on either side (if the roles are filled biblically as the husband makes choices from love for his wife and the wife supports those choices by loving submission and support in giving her honest thoughts).

  • @scmarih
    @scmarih 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you Pastor Mike for giving us solid biblical teachings on this complicated subject. I am very thankful for your hard work and dedication, May God continue to give you wisdom and guidance to share with us. 🙏🏽

  • @goodnewsinthegumtrees1917
    @goodnewsinthegumtrees1917 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you so much for this! No complaints about length I so appreciate all the work it has taken to put this together, I never thought I'd really be able to understand this topic but you are helping to bring such clarity looking forward to the ones to come!

  • @krisstrombeck
    @krisstrombeck 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I am so glad you are doing this as I have searched this very topic on & off simply because I know of several churches with women in lead pastoral positions and I am just not sure what to think about that. I am very thankful for my Pastor a man of the Word, I respect him and trust him as my shepherd and teacher. With that said, warning-I am most likely going to say some unpopular things, I do not think I would have the same comfort with a woman pastor. Don't get me wrong, I like women and am a very confident, able and active woman that interacts with others regularly. I know myself and experience with women in leader/manager roles and honestly I prefer a man leading and managing. Women can fall victim to their own emotions that turn us petty, caddy, reactive and yes-weak. I understand men can also fall into this trap but I have not seen it as often in men as women. I believe the confusion of male and female roles over the generations has made this dynamic more prevalent in both sexes-unfortunate and most likely of the fallen nature we all have. Bottom line is that it really does not matter what we think as humans, it matters what God's plan and purpose was for HIS people. We are all made in His image and one day will receive our new heavenly bodies, changed and glorified. But until that we are in this world to live according to Gods will. Adam was given a companion and that just so happened to be a wo-man. We have God given roles and no earthly need, desire or domain should redefine that. I want to be supportive of females in charge of churches but right now I am not convinced such is of God's will. I look up to many female teachers that are in complementary positions with men leading and that is what I am most comfortable with. I look forward to continuing to watch this series and see if I am finally convinced that women are equal with men in these lead godly roles. Thank you, always for your time and sharing. May God bless you and your ministry and give you wisdom and discernment.

  • @traciehigginsChaCha
    @traciehigginsChaCha 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I say make them longer! I’m savoring every moment. Pastor Mike you are so kind and fair I admire you for that but Gods word is what I cleave to. My heart was literally broken going back to the verses that were used for backing up their findings. They weren’t even close and that also made me angry. You are gifted to teach and it’s a beautiful thing to witness. God bless I’m counting down starting now for more meat! PS I think you might be allergic to Moxie 😂😂😂her name suits her🙏

  • @philippakerindukwe8443
    @philippakerindukwe8443 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for this comprehensive study! Your videos are not too long! They're great and so resourceful. I appreciate that you're not trying to convince us one way or the other-you're simply trying to give us a tool to walk through the bible in regards to this topic. I appreciate your ministry tremendously!

  • @BattleAxeReady
    @BattleAxeReady 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Thank you for doing it differently and actually taking the Word and letting it be the instructor!

  • @torieboshears9072
    @torieboshears9072 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I am ABSOLUTELY stoked about these videos and this series, and I appreciate the amount of information in these videos!

  • @victoriacampion8002
    @victoriacampion8002 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    It’s so refreshing to have this video on females roles in the Bible. I’ve been telling some friends and acquaintances how women aren’t supposed to be Pastors and elders but I’m met with disdain. I’ve even lost relationships and also lost a job because I spoke up about a certain woman who is a Pastor and she was speaking at a church near me. I was invited and turned it down and mentioned that I didn’t want to support a woman in a role God didn’t ordain for her. I was fired not too long after that. Thanks for telling THE TRUTH. Not what people think the truth is but the REAL truth. Gives me encouragement to keep speaking up myself.

    • @carmensavu5122
      @carmensavu5122 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Translation: I'm not going to speak because my abusive imaginary friend told me I couldn't based on the set of reproductive organs I have. Yup, makes perfect sense.

    • @oswaldrabbit1409
      @oswaldrabbit1409 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      keep it up my friend! The battle for Biblical truth never ends, even at a supposedly "Christian" college like I attend.

  • @nandomobile
    @nandomobile ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Honestly, this series is so rich in information it should be made into a book for every church pastor to have to teach on this in a clear and humble manner

    • @j.vanbreugel2378
      @j.vanbreugel2378 ปีที่แล้ว

      Do you know when the last two video’s are coming?

  • @amandalemons9535
    @amandalemons9535 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you so much for this series! You've been going more in depth than I even know how to on my own. I appreciate the time spent on this.

  • @laurabrune5930
    @laurabrune5930 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I just wanna let you know how much I appreciate these. Stuck it through to the end and I'm glad I did. ❤

  • @suzannemiller6028
    @suzannemiller6028 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I am very grateful for your careful and thorough research on this issue. I have been torn over it for some time now and I definitely want to know what Scripture says about it. Thank you for doing this! All of the videos thus far have been on point!! God bless!

  • @michaelksmith579
    @michaelksmith579 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Your fidelity to the truth makes you a respectable source. God Bless you!

  • @Designsy-wl9nr
    @Designsy-wl9nr 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I for one am loving the fact you arent putting this in 140 characters and are putting out 140 minute videos =D

  • @heckbr2
    @heckbr2 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Pastor Mike, just wanted to say your methodology for presenting your findings on this topic is perfect IMO: it’s thorough and thoughtful and most importantly soundly biblical. May God encourage you and bless you!

  • @amadeusasimov1364
    @amadeusasimov1364 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Thank you for all of your studying and hard work on this.
    You have given a faithful and consistent look at scripture, and helping us "think biblically" about all of this.
    Very necessary and imperative for the church in our current time.

  • @blueberrymuffinscottage
    @blueberrymuffinscottage 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have seen a video pop up on my recommended a few times criticizing your women in the Bible series. I am not going to watch that- I just want to say I hope that God humbles them, and I THANK YOU, as a 26 year old woman who earnestly desires to serve God, for studying and preaching his word. If what you say makes some women sour, that is not your problem, that is their pride. Thank you for your wisdom, and I look forward to the rest of this series, Pastor Mike!

  • @meredithmontz756
    @meredithmontz756 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Loving this series, it’s answering lots of questions I’ve had for a long time!

  • @christinacox2415
    @christinacox2415 ปีที่แล้ว

    Things I thought while Mike was speaking:
    I’m a nature, outdoor enthusiast and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE Your shirt. Where did you get it?
    I like the idea and try to be a balanced Christian. I find that my friends who are not followers of Christ seem to respect my beliefs more because I don't disrespect them while explaining it. I also seek to listen and understand their perspectives as well. When others can see that you are balanced it can go a long way. especially if you're balanced in your emotions towards your spirituality. It leans away from the characterization of Christianity. That we are delusional, unrelatable, prideful, hypocritical people.
    Mike--Your summarization of the concepts of the relationship between Adam and Eve are balanced and beautifully stated.
    I absolutely love how when God told them to move they would move and when God showed them that they needed to stay they stayed. This is honestly how I try to live my life.
    I’m a woman. I know that I am physically weaker than my husband. But what I lack in strength, I think I make up for in mental and spiritual prowess....plus, I birthed our 2 kids without drugs...so there's that. 😂

  • @kevinreichert8997
    @kevinreichert8997 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Mike, just one niggle. The role of Levite was separate from that of priest and women could not serve in Levirite roles outside of the priesthood either. I know it's nit-picking, but the upside is that I think you're doing a great job on this.

  • @robertcallahan7153
    @robertcallahan7153 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I appreciate Pastor Mike's handwork and diligence on this topic. I also feel He is doing an excellent work at being fare and equally critical. However, I think this study points out the weakness of things like denominational groupings, and concepts like Calvinism, Armenism, Predestination, Free Will, Egalitarianism and Complementarianism, etc. The word of God is exceptionally nuanced, and careful study reveals that when we approach God's Word with our broad brush strokes we miss His greater truths while creating divisions in the body.
    As Paul told Timothy in 2 Timothy 2:15, we need to, " Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." In stead of trying to consider am I "this or that", we would all do better to define ourselves in Christ, be like the Bereans in Acts 17 (an example Mike is giving us of examining everything against the scriptures) and be diligent to rightly divide the word of truth.

  • @wmarkfish
    @wmarkfish 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Great job Mike, my wife and I thank you so much for this study. It is very informative and enjoyable. One thing off topic though,; my wife noticed that you cough and rub your eyes and nose a lot and have to drink water more when Moxie is in the room with you and not so much when he is not. Has it occurred to you that... just an observation but...shall I say it? Maybe your allergies have something to do with cats.

  • @PeterTheRock-II
    @PeterTheRock-II 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you pastor Mike for all the work you do and clearing up some issues. You have really corrected some of my views. May God keep blessing you and your family and give you His wisdom to serve HIM faithfully. ( Looking forward to The Hebrews series)

  • @SixStringGrace
    @SixStringGrace 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I think you can stop apologizing for length or thoroughness, lol. Like you said, there's plenty of summaries out there. The people that want one won't be watching a 9 part, 15 hour study. I, for one, wish there were thorough and thoughtful Bible studies on every topic that matters. Thanks for your dedication to the Truth!

  • @st8a5cy
    @st8a5cy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’m really appreciating this series, Mr Winger! Thank you for the hours of research you’ve put into this. You are thorough!

  • @karenreynolds349
    @karenreynolds349 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great job Mike!!! Keep it up!!! Loved all the scriptures you brought into play!!!!

  • @pegandrews2615
    @pegandrews2615 2 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Thank-you, Pastor Mike, for helping me learn.

  • @ReformedNerd
    @ReformedNerd 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    🔥🔥🔥 I’ve watched every single video of this series ! Great stuff keep it up !

  • @nimalperera5454
    @nimalperera5454 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Pls clatify. When Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:38 wrote and declared "You are a royal priesthood" did he mean any particular gender or leave out women or intend women are excluded from that royal priesthood he mentioned??

    • @Omatimestwo
      @Omatimestwo ปีที่แล้ว

      9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
      I believe he was talking to men and women.

  • @britneygriffin6704
    @britneygriffin6704 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love finding someone who is not too afraid of offending people to dig into the scripture and discuss just the Bible. This is what people need. Thank you.

  • @Yipper64
    @Yipper64 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I usually find that everything can kind of be watered down into extremes, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. However I also find the truth leans towards whichever extreme is better, both are usually bad, but one stands out as being slightly more reasonable. Here I find that the complementarian extreme is still more reasonable than the egalitarian one, and biblically the egalitarian view has to stretch more than the complementarian view.

  • @shrtstufusa1
    @shrtstufusa1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was carefully put together (as everything you do is) and I appreciate your desire to be cautious and respectful with your message. In my humble opinion, the idea biblically (as it is sounding so far) I can't be a priest, than who am I to question God's authority when I can do SO MUCH in God's eyes and the fact that I am free in life and with Christ in eternity? Please, if your hill to die on is us not being able to be priests and yet we can do so much, than I think folks need to keep seeking their faith and the Bible. Well done Mike, well done.

  • @danhanshew4957
    @danhanshew4957 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Couple quick notes from the review of lessons 1 & 2: (1) The use of the word "them" in Gen 1:26-29 suggests that 'having dominion' is a corporate activity and not an individual ones; in other words, women cannot exercise dominion by themselves anymore than an individual man can exercise dominion by himself. (2) Proper Bible study is not reading the text from the point of view of the original readers, it is reading the text based upon the author's/write's intent (authorial intent). The original reader my have been closer to the cultural context, but their understanding is not inspired...the words of the text are.

    • @padillas4357
      @padillas4357 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      When I read the Bible, I see men and women compliment each other in a synergy, not a hierarchy.

  • @gloriaelmore9092
    @gloriaelmore9092 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your teaching of God is so precious. Thank you for staying with the Word of God.

  • @amybee40
    @amybee40 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Around 1:45:40 -- another point about women not being priests -- it was often a physically demanding job. Slaughtering and skinning animals, etc. And as far as instruction of spiritual things in families, it is too often seen that men will happily cede that role to their wives. If God didn't make it their job, most men would never think of doing it at all. And maybe that goes all the way back to Adam as well.

    • @cmc3749
      @cmc3749 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was thinking the same thing about the "instruction of spiritual things".

    • @davisnate03
      @davisnate03 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I think the person bringing the animal did the slaughtering, skinning and parting. Lev. 1 "5 You are to slaughter the young bull before the Lord, and then Aaron’s sons the priests shall bring the blood and splash it against the sides of the altar at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 6 You are to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire."

  • @Jarrodotus
    @Jarrodotus 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Mike Winger, if you happen to see this comment, I just want to say thank you. I am teaching a class on this topic and your material is immensely helpful.
    My take: When it comes to what women can and can't do in church, there it is not as black and white as many like it to be. But this much is clear: God wants his church to have godly leaders, and that comes in the form of elders - men who have proven themselves as effective godly leaders in the home. The Bible is clear on that, and when it comes to all the nuances, I just say thank God for elders to help lead the flock through such issues when they arise!

  • @LaurenFrancesHair
    @LaurenFrancesHair 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You are such a blessing mike. I cannot imagine how much work this is. I do appreciate it!

  • @cristiv8285
    @cristiv8285 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I must say, I am really really really enjoying this series!!! I feel like I am in the middle most of the time but sometimes lean more towards the egalitarian side. Hubs and I literally have been discussing some of the subjects in this series prior to knowing about this series.

  • @magnificentuniverse3085
    @magnificentuniverse3085 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Thank God for his word love and wisdom that he gives to us.

  • @TamaraGrace
    @TamaraGrace 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Still finishing this study up today. But will be looking forward to all you have to come. I really appreciate your take, and view without partiality on this topic.
    I may not agree with you on everything. But something I 100% agree with you on is, the mishandling of scripture on both sides of the aisle.
    Thank you for your view on this Mike. 😊

  • @ericfeldkamp3788
    @ericfeldkamp3788 2 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Really appreciate the depth of study and discussion on this subject.

    • @ericfeldkamp3788
      @ericfeldkamp3788 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Also, thanks for being the only TH-camr not talking about Will Smith today.

  • @inadj3771
    @inadj3771 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There is so much wisdom and grace in this video. You are a blessing pastor Mike. May the Lord continue to bless you and your work. I am with you, I wanted to be an egalitarian, but I a soft complementarian view sits well with me as I read the Bible and listen to your thoughts on this.

  • @RayvenFE
    @RayvenFE 2 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    53:45 - I just wanted to point out that the palm tree is actually significant. Palm was in ancient times highly associated with royalty, rulership, and authority. This is the same reason why they laid Palm fronds before Jesus feet at the triumphant entry. So actually the Palm tree leads credence to Deborah's authority.

  • @kristyleavitt8007
    @kristyleavitt8007 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Mike, I really appreciate you taking the time to do a deep dive into this important topic. I’m finding it interesting and helpful! Thank you!

  • @katiestevenson8920
    @katiestevenson8920 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Mike, I'm enjoying the series however I think it would be better described as a series dedicated to refuting egalitarianism since you spend the bulk of your time analyzing and largely refuting egalitarian scholarship with a few antidotes about the complementarians. Thus far, I have not heard an in depth analysis of complementarian scholarship. This series would be better described as an analysis of egalitarianism, not a comprehensive analysis of both sides.

    • @padillas4357
      @padillas4357 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Not even. Many of us on the egalitarian side have no idea who these people are that he is quoting, and don't agree with them either.

    • @rachelm9350
      @rachelm9350 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      and I do think that the egalitarians he is quoting seem to be the "extreme" ones. Not most people. I would like Mike to consider what Beth Allison Barr says in her book, along with Melissa Scott (who has a LOT of knowledge about greek/hebrew/etc - she's no dummy!) and other scholars (both male and female) vs the extreme views he is presenting. There are balanced knowledgeable egalitarians who reject extremism.

    • @padillas4357
      @padillas4357 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rachelm9350 I agree. There are definitely better sources that he has not been using.

  • @umbrellathegreatdetective5423
    @umbrellathegreatdetective5423 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Mike! I just want to say thank you for doing this series. I'm somewhat of a hard complimentarian myself, but since I'm a woman, that is often a problem for me because I never know what I can and can't do. I was looking forward to this series ever since you first mentioned you were doing it! That being said, you've opened my eyes to a lot of points that oppose my view; showing me I may be wrong in a few areas. Even so, I want to bring up something that I found that upholds the view that women are not good rulers of countries, according to the Bible. You talked about Isaiah 3:12. I had no idea the verse was so ambiguous, and I often internally used it to defend my views, so I'm thankful you brought that to light. Still, while I think your interpretation that "women rule over them" has to do with societal incompetence that women would have had in the culture, I don't think you brought a full explanation. There are other Scriptures that may be relevant here. The passage is comparing the leaders to babies and women. This should, in my opinion, be interpreted as "your leaders are both incompetent AND weak". These descriptors fit the societal roles of women(and babies) at the time and the biological fact women and babies are physically weaker than men. In Isaiah 19:16-17, the Egyptians are, for the coming day of being taken over by Judah, are described as this: "In that day, the Egyptians will be like women, and tremble with fear before the hand that the LORD of hosts shakes over them." This seems to be saying they will be cowardly like women(which, admittedly, is harsh and stings a little), but I think it's referring mainly to their helplessness to a total takeover. Women in the Bible seem to often be represented as primarily helplesss in the case of a military advance. In God's rebuke of Babylon and the Chaldeans in Jeremiah 50:35-38, this is what he says in verse 37 "A sword against her[Babylon's] horses and against her chariots, and against all the foreign troops in her midst, that they become women! A sword against all her treasures, that they may be plundered!" That's the ESV, other translations indicate the men don't LITERALLY become women, but "like" women. Once again, this is referring to women as cowardly and unable to fight. Now, any woman with the Holy Spirit can grow in character, and not be a coward. But it would take a miracle for her physical body to change to be more suited to combat. This is also backed up again by Jeremiah 51:30. When you read the verse in context, over multiple versions, this verse says that warriors are lacking strength and will to fight when they "become women". "The warriors of Babylon have ceased fighting; they remain in their strongholds; their strength has failed; they have become like women..." Why do I bring this up? Certainly not to bash women, after all, I am one. But, I believe verses like these add greater context to the insult being made in Isaiah 3:12. God seems to be making it clear through explicit verses like these, and implicitly by the laws concerning warfare in Deuteronomy 20(which strictly refers to men), or the brutal annihilation of both Jezebel and Athaliah, that women are not meant for combat roles. Deborah seemed to know this, and this is another reason Barak was rebuked in the way he was; a reason it was a humiliation that the glory that could have been his was taken by a woman. Even though Jael did kill Sisera, she didn't do it by overpowering him; she had to use cunning and wait until he was asleep. Because of all this, I believe the text of Scripture most consistently reads that women should not be given any sort of military power. Which almost automatically disqualifies her for any role that is leading men into battle, and probably any role that involves much military strategizing. These restrictions make me very hard pressed to approve of a woman for any role of headship over an entire country, due to a queen's, empress's, president's, etc responsibility to lead the military. I hope you see this, or at least someone does, and take this into consideration!
    [Edit: this was made before the end of the video where you clarified, but I think that these Scriptures give specifically biblical reasoning of the reality that women are not suited for combat. I also want to leave the comment here for others who struggle to find verses specifically refuting women in combat, because it always takes me forever to find these verses, so here you go!]

    • @richardgordon-smith239
      @richardgordon-smith239 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Very interesting comment sister. I hope Mike does give it a look!

  • @bothmafamily3452
    @bothmafamily3452 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Hi Mike - I agree with you that the egalitarian arguments that you highlight are overstretched with regards to Miriam but I have one question - in Micah 6 she is clearly shown to be a leader by God Himself, why else would He mention her in relation to Him leading Israel out of slavery and sending before them these three leaders? It seems like God is making a point here that He send these three people BEFORE them - which is where you would find a leader ? Couldn’t you be diminishing this hint at leadership ? Why else does He mention her here then in the same sentence with Moses and Aaron who are clear leaders in Israel?

    • @LilJbm1
      @LilJbm1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There's never a question about if Miriam was important or served as a leader to some capacity, but the question is really whether she was an actual big L Leader in the same way Moses or Aaron are (men). That passage doesn't suggest more than that, at the time, God had chosen those three to serve and to guide Israel to God. It doesn't really delineate the roles of them which is what egalitarians were trying to argue with that passage. Moses was different in his role from Aaron, and so was Miriam's role different. Each had a purpose from God though, and sadly (for egalitarians anyway) this supports a complementary complementarian view that men and women have their own roles. Different, but necessary.

    • @bothmafamily3452
      @bothmafamily3452 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@LilJbm1 thanks for the input! I am trying to understand the reason that God would mention her name alongside two very prominent leaders, to me in context there is a good reason He does that and was clear to the Israelites - I totally get what you are saying, she wasn’t on the level of Moses (when she tried that she was disciplined), neither was Aaron, but that does not negate that she was seen as a prominent leader (based on the fact that God mentions her name alongside the two MAIN prominent leaders of the time). I also totally understand that her role wasn’t to be the leader of Israel like Moses or the leader of the priests like Aaron, but just like those two men had their different roles with prominent authority attached to it, she had too it seems from this scripture in context.

    • @viperstriker4728
      @viperstriker4728 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@bothmafamily3452 "she wasn’t on the level of Moses"
      Might I suggest that this is what clouds our thinking here?
      Level suggests a hierarchy or chain of command. Something like go to Aaron first and have her take your issue to Mose sort of thinking.
      We see that God didn't want Israel to have kings but anoints kings none the less because it is what the people of Israel would accept. 1 Samuel 8 God tells Samuel the request for kings is a rejection of Him, but appoints them anyway.
      Then in Matthew 5:17 Jesus talks about fulfilling the law and not destroying it.
      So here is my theory, the way God sets things up are the closest he can get with the people he has to work with. The perfect standard finally coming to pass in Jesus. So with that in mind perhaps Matthew 23:8-12 applies (which puts everyone on the same level under God). If this was God's goal in Micah 6 as well, then the word level is not correct. Rather 3 are set before the people with 3 different roles that they play. All the roles are of equal value to God and must be filled, but each role requires different things. Thus Mose has more authority as that is needed to carry out his role. But that didn't make Mose of greater moral value the way that kings setup themselves up as greater then others.
      I have been tossing around the idea that it matters more how we do a job then what job we do. A janitor that does his job as if unto God is more worth of praise then a king who is doing the bare minimum. Not sure how biblical that idea is yet. But I would use it to think of the 3 as 3 role models God is holding up to the people. Not as commentary on what roles they do, but on how well they did them. And because of that they are leaders to the people, but that doesn't actually comment on what authority they have.
      Hopefully you disagree and can push back on my ideas. I do love a good debate.

  • @teya3141
    @teya3141 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hi Mike. I really appreciate the thorough Bible study you have done on this. Coming from a reformed extreme complementary view where women were inferior, and being introduced to equalitarianism view, I felt so much more loved by God, who does not value women less than men.
    I am shocked how these “scholars”
    I read the book “Why not women?” By David Hamilton and Loren Cunningham. They are more equalitarians, but don’t stretch scripture like the examples do.

  • @savedbygrace7982
    @savedbygrace7982 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Please don’t apologize for being complementarian. It’s what the Bible teaches and we don’t have to apologize to feminists. And please please don’t say you wanted to be egalitarian. This is what that sounds like to me as a woman: ‘I wanted to think that you women could do all the great things men do but I’m so sorry you can only do the lowly things of a woman.’ Seriously. Why not celebrate all the wonderful things the Bible gives for women to do?? Being a keeper of the home and teaching our children is HUGE. I had a career before motherhood and there is just nothing else like being a mother. And teaching the younger women, serving in other capacities at my church. There are so many things. I’m tired of women being apologized to for not being able to fill certain roles that God set aside for men. Look at what egalitarian culture has led to. You now have men thinking they are women and wanting to have babies. There are separate roles for men and women and they are both wonderful and God ordained. No need to apologize for it. I love being a patriarchal woman.

    • @TrnsltLife
      @TrnsltLife 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Praise the Lord for a Titus 2 woman right here. May her children rise up and call her blessed!

    • @sdlorah6450
      @sdlorah6450 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Older women are tasked with teaching the younger women after the Titus 2 model. Thanks for pointing young women to the Bible and God's timeless, enduring model for marriage, home, and family.

  • @towibabe3959
    @towibabe3959 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loving this Bible study! During the Royal Women section I thought of the Queen of Sheba and that the Bible seemed to talk about her in a positive way as well...she was a foreign queen, but still. Looking forward to the rest of the study, thank you for all of your hard work on this!

  • @aleithiatoews6452
    @aleithiatoews6452 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I always read the rebuke of Barak as a result of him putting his faith in the prophetess rather than in the god for whom she prophesied. We can contrast Barak with the Roman centurion who asked for healing for his servant and trusted Christ's authority to heal with a command.