Put two Motors on one side and the other two on the other side of a quad and use Black Box to compare there punch out and top-end thrust and torque differences.
This is an obvious test that I've wondered why no one has ever done. It's not an exact measurement, but at least it's objective. Same goes for prop reviews. Almost all reviews are subjective, they're based on the reviewers feel for them. Two props/motors on one side would allow for direct, and real, comparisons in performance.
Since their inception, wider than 22XX on 5" or 6" has always felt lacking in the top end power and control to me. Even testing the Hyperlite 2307 vs 2207, I hugely preferred the 2207. This was most confusing finding to me since they're the same motor other than the width. I've discussed this dilemma extensively with Ryan Harrell of MQTB and there isn't really a clear explanation we could come up with. Comparing a 2306 vs 2207 in terms of power curve, the 2207 definitely has its power band pushed up higher in the RPM range and from Ryan's tests, they do manage higher RPM transitions better as well. With respect to acro, lower pitch props are usually prefered and it makes sense to pair them with a motor that's better in the higher RPM range. I believe the lower pitch props are preferred because they generally 'should' have better overall control and handling since they don't stall as easily. Especially in the lower RPMs. However many steep pitch props these days like the HQ5.1x5.1x3 and original Avan triblade, have design features that are very good at managing this low RPM stall issue and just feel extra awesome on a 2207. But you give up a whole lotta amps for that kinda performance. Emax is testing their 2009 prototypes and finding some interesting results... It would seem that the power band position on the throttle curve is very closely correlated with the motor width and the motor height can expand that band while the kv will attempt to draw it out or pull it in. The part I'm hung up on is that wide motors and high kv don't seem to perform as I would expect by extrapolating from other motors. We've come so far that we're now splitting hairs to fine tune the performance out of these machines. It's awesome
Pretty sure zoefpv/rctimer was selling a 2010 size motor at one point. Apparently it was quite an amp hog, which makes sense I guess, that's a huge jump in stator volume. She liked the added stator height for quicker transition between up and down thrust in 3d flying.
Buddy I gotta say your flying has come a lonnnng way since I first started watching your channel. Great review! 2207's from now on for this fella. Cheers!
Good stuff Joshua Bardwell. One problem though. Volume of a cylinder is pi*r^2*h, not pi*d^2*h. It doesn't really change the comparison, but your numbers for volume are off by a factor of 4.
Coming from a motorsport background your findings make perfect sense to me and are what I would expect to see too. In combustion engine terms. Wide stator vs narrow stator of the same displacement could be thought of as a 'long stroke' (narrow cylinder) engine vs a 'short stroke' (wide cylinder) engine. Short stroke will be less torquey but typically rev higher (lower mechanical stresses) and have greater potential power higher up in the rpm range. With a wider stator you have more mechanical leverage which suits it well to low down torque and efficiency if you operate in this area of rpm... but if you want top end power you are better off with a wider magnetic flux ring.... akin to the wider flame front in a short stroke racing combustion engine. Although they show similar bench test static thrust figures... the 2207 will typically unload more and therefore rev higher in free flight and this is why it feels better in real life.
No... you have to then put amp draw, increased motor weight, heavier lipo etc into the whole equation... and that negates any overall advantage.... it just alters the quads overall performance parameters in a certain direction and that can be either good or bad depending on the course and/or individual flying style.
I really like the "idea" of the wider stators over the taller stators because it gets torque from the mechanical advantage which to me seems more efficient. Sciencey! You got me hooked on RCX motors btw.
The fat motors now have more inertia in the bell housing. But wait, taller motors mean more bending on the shaft and impact damage could be worse on the bearings. Then the cooling should be better on the short wider ones since less air restriction and more surface area. But then the tall motor might be better since.... Such is the life of an engineer trying to make a decision that usually doesn't matter that much... I do that all the time deciding lunch, then after an hour everything sounds delicious. Torque does not = efficiency though. My cousin's 7.5 liter pickup has a lot of torque, and its certainly not efficient. Much like combustion engines, electric motors can vary wildly based on timing and load (and the speed of the ESC). At the end of the day, you always need to size things for what you want. The 1104 motors on my micro are great, but they wouldn't be good on a phantom, and the 2212 motors wouldn't be good on the micro, both being very inefficient. Hence their will never be a "best" motor.
You don't ever get something for free, physics just won't allow it. So yes every upside has a downside for sure. That being said, I would think generally a wider motor will give you greater mechanical advantage that outweighs the additional force required to spin the wider motor since the props are still a far greater load source than the motor itself, giving a significant boost to efficiency since a large fraction of the extra power gained is from the mechanical advantage and not just from increased power utilization from the battery as would be more true for a taller stator vs a wider stator. A taller stator will have a taller bell housing as well, increasing the mass and requiring more force to spin, so width vs height I would imagine width would at least have more potential for efficiency gains. At some point there is a crossover where the motor is too wide for its own good of course, I just don't know if we've hit that mark yet with 23mm wide stators turning 5" triblade props. But maybe there's something I'm not considering here, and as with many things the devil is in the details so numbers matter, 1mm change in width probably does not equate to 1mm change in height etc. There will never be a best motor, I agree, just a better motor for a specific application. Novel complete.
to my eye teach your had more control on 2306 but more fun on 2207 lol like telling kids to count to a 100 but one counts by 1 the other by 5.By having throttle on screen would help viewers in that type of test and good flying nice level up in skill. it also feels like more time on the 2306 also more low end real world trust but it wasnt an efficiency test so dont know if you put that to test lol back from future i see you tested time somewhat. lol make frankinstien motors like me Teach get emax bells and put them on the 2306 the magnets might be stronger lol i also have 2306 on 2305.
nice, always depends on the setup and weight of your kwad, i switched motors a lot from quad to quad to find out what works, i had the best results with lightweight with 2207 and light props like 5043HQ and heavy quads with 2306 with props like cyclone 5046C
Same here - I really like NK2306 2700 kV with 5046C on my race quad - tons of torque, I barely add any throttle in corners. Makes for very consistent speed and lap times.
Strange I figured you were like the 2306’s better¿ It seems like your flight was a considerable amount smoother and they had more controllable low-end power for cruising through the tight spots 🤷🏻♂️
Ordinary I’d say it was a shill move to push motors for affiliate cash but I don’t think Bardwell has sold his soul yet ... especially with his HDO review and vtx reviews
Nah, if you look at how much inertia and lag those had, it's night and day, the 2306 was wobbly, like held with chewing gum. The 2207 was so sharp in contrast. I wonder how these differ in long range type flight...
Joshua, I was having yaw-twitch problems on two quads with new motors, EMax and Brother Hobby, and found the solution in one of your own 2hr videos from a few months ago. I increased the PWM frequency in BLHeli to 48 and that did the trick. Also, before I increased the PWM freq, the motors were noisy in the Motors tab at certain speeds, but once I increased the PWM the noise cleared up.
i tried 2306 meny models, emax, rcx, dys... And all have one thing in common, if you want to push it it sucks the battery down when over 2400kv. 2207 2300kvish is a softspot for me, plenty of power, plenty of prop choice and flight times are incredible. Keep an eye on 2305 size, seems to be the new sweet spot with 2350kv and 2500kv.
if you buy at least once with no warranty all motors becomes with no warranty, so why pay more? You won't send it back for repair, but with extra you will have parts from first ;]
Exactly. RCX also is great about stocking extra/spare bells, shafts, and bearings. The only time I ever write off a motor is when I crash hilariously hard, so why pay more.
Hey Joshua ...I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you have done for us in this amazing hobby, and congratulations on becoming a new member of Rotor Riot......I think your exactly the pilot they need for future growth and continuing the drone camp function. I always have been a fan of your channel as it has been my trouble shooting guide when I couldn't get my Drone working or if it was working and had a problem..... I could always figure it out because you had a video about my problem .....every time!!!!!! ....without your channel I would have bin totally lost and most certainly would have given up, But because I could always fix my problems by listening to your videos it made it easy to find a solution......thank you again man and you never know maybe we will fly together one day!!!! cheers.
2207 has a faster response to throttle input due to the stator width. The height of the magnets allows you to run more aggressive props without “over-propping” your motor. 2306 is going to have an easier time spinning 6” tri-blades than a 2207 or 2208 motor. It’s like a gear in a transmission. The smaller the gear, the less torque can be applied to the driveshaft. The wider the gear, the more torque can be applied. Torque is required to spin larger/more aggressive props.
Propeller and motor pairing has a drastic effect on the performance of a quad. A high KV motor with a high pitch prop is going to be extremely fast but will crush most batteries. If the KV is too high and the pitch too low, your props will flatten out under fast throttle changes (just like tires breaking loose on a car under hard acceleration). If your KV is lower and you run a more aggressive prop, you might have thrust issues in the low end of your throttle range.
Concur on everything - although going to biblade and lower advance ratio in 6" actually feels great on 2207 and 2208 motors. Way better than I expected, especially on hilariously cheap 2208 motors. I've had to toss on some seriously ludicrous 6x5.5x3 props (!) in order to feel like the motor isn't spinning them up super fast, but I still have to violently back that thing into hairpins to mind... but it's an absolute missile, especially on $7 motors.
tehllama42, Which $7 motors? Also, can you explain "advance ratio" in greater detail here? I read this; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_ratio but I'm still unable to visualize how this works on different quad props. TIA
Advance ratio is actually what people should be measuring instead of prop pitch (many do) - essentially how many inches of fluid the propeller should push you through per rotation - think of it as a final gear ratio in a car. 5x5.5x3 Hulkie props have a lot more advance ratio than 5x4x3 V1s, for example. The $7 motors are the RCX H2208 (4mm shaft) motors, sans warranty. they're only in 2000KV, but for experimenting on 5S or jumping to 6", they're great - I'm also giving them a try on 7042 Gemfan Flash props to see how they're like.
tehllama42, I got a set of those and the cobra 2208 2kkv's still haven't flown yet; 7" props sound about right for them. So, I get what advance ratio is (I think anyway), but how does it change between bi and tri-bladed props?
hahaha you would say that, never see anything else on your channel unless you're testing. What about your freestyle F40 Pro 2 2400s? Not really 2400 if you look at the tested KV though
I totally agree with the preference of 2207s. Granted my 2306 experience was tainted with the emax 2306 2750s, but a massive difference between the two was noted by me.
Engineer's answer- ANGULAR MOMENT- basically you have more "stuff" further from the center. AND the SAME tangential force is at a larger OD. The difference goes back to PI, or ~ +3 times on RADIAL difference. So just a little bit of diameter goes A LOT further than a linear iterpolation. Thank you very much
I think people are still questioning what to get. It would be good to get your opinion on what would be better for say a beginner, intermediate, expert flyer. I am a beginner and still not sure what would be best to see me through to intermediate flying. I get you like the 2207 (That`s fine for an experienced flyer) but it would be good to know how they handle a bit more for different skill sets. Don't get me wrong, love your work and this vid is helping me decide, but I am still a little confused.... ;-) Cheers Bud.
I only hope the quality of those motors got better. Year ago got me some 2206 and spare bells. Balancing mud was literally flying off of them while flying. Anything that held up through the flight was out upon first contact with grass during light crashes on densly covered field. I'm not even exaggerating right now. Racerstar motors felt way more reliable to them. With that said, they weren't bad, still use them on trash rig. But if you're looking for a smooth motor that's gonna held up to some abuse and still provide a smooth footage, skip on those for sure. The only positive side about them is the availability of spare parts which makes them semi-good racing or practice motors.
your flying looks much beter with 2306 becose 2207 was also more noisy (oscilations? ) like viewer I like more 2306 but may be for pilot is beter 2207 ? becose of quicklier response ? witch one are closer to 2205 2300kv ? thnx :)
Dx 2205 crazepony well i got get dirty with this i guess i have to text continuity check my pdb i really dont know where to start . It seen that there are power everywhere i dont know if i havent done what i have to do with the radio .
I prefer the 2306 2400kv motors for freestyle. I like the bottom end torque that they provide. In the end it all boils down to flying style and how you want your quad to feel. Great video JB👍
100% my exact findings between 2306 and 2207 on other brands as well Josh. Literally. I get longer flights with 2207 even though the amp draw is slightly higher as well and I think it’s due to the higher torque and faster speed of the quad that I don’t need to be on the throttle nearly as hard. I find on 2306 I need to be on the throttle a LOT more and my flights get very short. I love 2207 and will never buy more 2306. You literally mirrored my exact findings between the two motor sizes, even your descriptions of the two. Thanks again and great thorough testing!! - Travis
it depends which brand you try and how they make it...I like the Brother Hobby 2306 R5...the 2306 have a bit more torque in the low end which feels better for freestyle IMO...hence most of the freestyle motors being this size...hypetrains, steele, more popular T motor F40 Pro 2...etc...but some do prefer 2207 high kv...
"and we promise just a good of a work out as the 8 minute folk" "how" " uhhhh... if, if your not happy with your work out we will send you the extra minute free, yea thats it"
Fpvmodel hurricane 2207 and miniquadtestbench gave it a thumbs up. Similar price point. There is also the BBB 2207 and rcaddict love them for the power and smoothness.
ashmawikali143 sorry man, I have either of the motors. It is not an easily question to answer, both of the motors will give you the performance you need but if you are looking for more efficient motors i would recommend 2205 motors with hyper light build for not so serious racing. For freestyle I definitely go for bigger motors like yours. Between BBB and BH, BH is a bigger brand imo. However I have heard a lot of good things about BBB 2207. With BBB 2207 I think there is only one kV, which is really high for racing but great for freestyle. BH 2306 has two kV I believe. If I would choose I will go for BH 2450kv which is the right kV for racing. For freestyle higher kV. BH 2306 uses 7075 , BBB 2207 no idea and not mentioned in spec,which I suspect it could be 6061.
+ Joshua Bardwell I think your calculations are out. Area of a circle is R squared x pi. I think you are squaring D. I don't think this makes much difference for volume ratio comparison. But I'm a nerdy mc nerd nerd so I can't help myself. So for the case of the 2306 23/2 ==11.5 ( 11.5 x 11.5 ) x 3.14 x 6 == 2419.6 mm3 Or for the 2207 22/2==11 (11 x 11) x 3.14 x 7 = 2659.6 As a metric native 10,000 cubic millimetres just seemed intuitively wrong.
Joshua, man I live your videos. Keep up the good work. Hope to get to shake your hand one day. Anyway. I came across one of Crash Hancock's OPQ quad frames. Its 346 mm and weighs about 7 oz.. I would like to know what size motor/prop you would recommend. I have your F4 FC AND 4 IN 1 ESC. I'm just a casual flyer. I would like some punch though. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks again.
I have both of these exact motors. The 2207s rock! They just released an "economy" 2207 for 9.99. Maybe different magnets? But I dont understand why people try to steer you away from 2207 motors. They are perfect for the way I fly. They have amazing torque so they are great for quick movements. But I did notice that I dont get as much flight time with the 2207s. Great video!
Hey Joshua, I don't get the amps on the motors and esc. I have the JB 4 in 1 30 amp esc. All of the motors i shop for 2207, 2306 even 2205's on the spec data show drawing more than 30 amps between 3/4 and full throttle turning 5-4 and 6-4 props on 4s. I can't seem to find a motor prop combination to work with my esc. Am I looking at or calculating something wrong or maybe I need a bigger esc? Any ideas. Thanks.
Motors draw a lot more current on the bench than in the air. A 30 amp ESC is fine for almost any 5" prop. Also remember there is a burst rating. So the 30 amp ESC can do 40 or 45 amps for a few seconds.
Joshua, You talk about motors on this vid so I posted my problem here. I built a 5" quad using DALRC Engine 40A 4-in-1 ESC and EMAX 2206 2550kv motors. problem is the motors get very hot. would these motors be too small for a 5"?
2206 is plenty big enough for 5". Used to be all we had! If the motors are getting super hot, first test with a multimeter to see if the screws are touching the windings. th-cam.com/video/eo2sjTNS0pc/w-d-xo.html Next, if you have turned on 32k gyro mode or played with the filters, put all that back to defaults.
I could tell that you were up higher in the video with the 2207. Just because that happened to me when I lowered my cam angle. All of the sudden the thrust I was used to giving shot me way up in the air. Kind of the same way more thrust = more height in the flight.
James Smith: calling me a “plank” is not very effective, unless I am the only one who doesn’t know what you are referring to, do you mean a piece of wood like “dumb as a stump”? In any case, it is name calling and therefore, not particularly effective or valuable. As far as Knowitall goes, he should call himself “the FPV Know it all” which he does not :) Then again, you are sounding like a know-it-all, since you seem to be the only one using plank as an attempted insult...
I'll admit, I am one of those people demanding at least an nod to your opinion. Can I request your opinion on 5043 vs 5051? I've been flying for almost a year, but I still can't subjectively describe the difference between props. I feel the difference with props, but not uniformly as I go up in pitch.
You'd have to start by telling me exactly which props you're talking about. Lots of manufacturers use the same numeric designation to refer to different blade designs.
14:42 that would make sense since they have a smaller moment, or rotating inertia since the weight of the bell is brought in closer. You could try adding a bit of weight with copper tape to the motor and see if that takes the advantage away maybe?
I love all your vids JB, and sorry to be THAT guy, but I believe you've slipped up because V=πr^2h not πD^2h. Sorry to bring it up, but no one had mentioned it yet :)
About a zillion people have mentioned it ;-) The good news is, the ratio is still the same, so saying 2207 is 7% bigger doesn't change. The bad news is, it turns out 2306 and 2207 have different bearing size so the volume is not proportional to the stator size. 2207 is actually only about 5% bigger.
For freestyle flying, is there an "ideal" prop for the 2207 motors? I know that weight, battery size etc will have huge influences, but I'm completely ignorant about how to choose a prop.
Hey Josh where do you live if you dont mind me asking? Im a Pool tech and ill come and throw a new liner in that pool for you if you live close to me!! I cant help but notice it for the last 4 months ive been watching your videos.
A spinning bigger diameter wheel with same rpm contains more kinetic energy, will spin longer, than a smaller diameter. So on continuous throttle the large diameter is more efficient and with much throttle change the smaller diameter is more efficient. Which would be race vs free style, 2306 vs 2207.
Your basic physics is correct but I think you are missing a lot. The prop has a lot more mass, a lot farther from the center, so I think the inertial moment of a 2207 with prop is not that different than 2306. The different stator size develops torque differently too, although I don't know enough about brushless motor theory to speak more about that.
@@JoshuaBardwell yes there are more variables. And assuming the same props are used, the prop weight is not one of the variables. My prop is 6 gram and motor bell is 14 grams. Maybe test/measure the inertia of both motors.
I cut the propeller tips outside the motor of and put them on the scale. The prop inside the motor diameter is 6 grams and the three tips together only 0 grams. My scale is not very precise I'm afraid.
OK I have been in electronics since high school, service manager and head tech. at a TV Repair shop ,and all I could say is it looks and sounded like it took less power but more of a punch was the 2207, I also love the RCX Brand more than any other brand for a discount motor. THANKS JOSH ! Looks like I will get these 2207 for my 220mm 5in. frame. have a great week . JohnnyDRC
Hi Joshua, great job done I'd say. Do you plan to make such video also for motors for 7" quads? I mean for free style or long range kind of copters. Or in this case it does not matter so much? Currently I am using in my 7" LR quads 2408 motors (Hyperlite actually). but there could be also some other motor size options, what do you think? ;)
Using both. My race build is sett up with 2207.6 on my Hyperlite Floss 3.0. On my source one v3 freestyle build I'm flying 2306. They both fly amazing. For awhile I had them the other way race build had the 2306 an freestyle had the 2207.
I recently purchased the f-40 pros and the f-60 pros which is a 2306 and a 2207.. I never felt the low end torque on the 2306 like you would think. The 2207 always felt more responsive and torquey but didn't have the top end speed the 2306 provided. And when flying with a go-pro I always go with a 2207-2407 so that I can't tell the go pro is on the quad. So.. top speed=2306... 2207=immediate response, torque and speed with out the top end of the 06'.
I'm confused when it comes to my 7 inch build. I keep being told that 2306 or 2305 is too small for my quad at 1800kv 6s. I know the kv is wayyyy too high and need somthing like 1400 and lower! Is it too small and what would you reccomend 24xx 25xx? Its 6s on a tight budget. It came with these motors amd flew ok and went to hell after trying the first bf 4.0. The motors are now on my remix 5.5" build and fly insane but I want the 7" to be my long range with light acro on 6s. I'm pissed at emax I have 5 junk motors from them and do not recommend them. The shafts and bearings are trash!
For me it’s the 2206 Lumenier I’m currently using, there is ABSOLUTELY no point in changing motors for just a little “i think it’s better” doesn’t it works fine? what is gonna make people fly better is to fly, does not matter what! a better motor or battery will NOT make anyone fly better, flying will! Just don’t waste your money folks!
Joshua Bardwell, you didnt mention in the video, but I assume you were using the same prop on both motors - I understand you are trying to compare only the motor difference, but it may be a little unfair, as you could be playing into one more than the other. We all know that some motors just shine better with a particular prop - sometimes even an unexpected prop. I would highly suggest you try to put a little more aggressive prop on the 2306 and try again. I run mostly Dal Cyclones, with the 5046-tri being the go-to default, and these work near flawlessly on my RDQ 2207/2450kv quad. However, I also have a near identical bird with Brother Hobby Deadpool 2306/2450. (keep in mind the RDQ is just a rebranded R5 so similar comparison as your rcx motor pair) This quad did not feel quite right on the 5046. I didnt want to believe a more aggressive prop would make it feel better, but the 2306 bird SINGS on 5050 tri cyclones! The feel of the quads is still different, but I really cant day one is clearly better than the other with the right prop. I'd love to hear your feedback if you were to try bumping up the prop pitch on the 2306 just a hair..
Looks like the 2306 RCX's have suffered from the Bardwell Effect - wiped out of stock at RCMart since May! (in reality seems it's a bearing supplier issue). Next best suggestion in similar or slightly higher price range?
I've had good luck with dys shu 2306 2500kv motors 10 bucks each, but you make me wish i picked the other dys motors lol. The biggest Motors I've ran previously were 2206 I was expecting a massive power gain and there is more power just not as much as I expected.
We'll thanks Joshua now I want a set of 2207.... can't afford them, but if Joshua Bardwell says they're better they're better... you're my Fpv idol bud striving to be as knowledgeable as you. .
It kinda looked like you had more fun with the 2306... You didn't do as much crazy stuff with the 2207. It did look like the 2207 had a more stable flight.
my b hobby 2207's are great. if you want to full stick it, they go. if you want to freestyle, they pop. samguk wei's are also great. just not as immediate on the stick. using higher kv 2600 or 2700 you notice the difference in torque. 2306's are also great but I havent spent the money on top end motors in this size. my preference has been the 2207's, even over 2307's. the difference in performance wasnt much but the battery usage was radical. thanks for posting.
I thought I had a really clever idea, but I was backwards! I did the same math as you, but I also subtracted out the volume of the bearing to get closer to the volume of the actual windings. Surely the volume gap between the 2306 and 2207 would appear even bigger then, right?! Nope. This is where I was backwards. Instead of your 7% difference, I came up with a 5% difference.
2306 is for gnarly slow, smooth, precision flying and 2207 is for big powerloopy dynamic flying across big areas. 2207 can do both but 2306 can only do one. 2207 is better for me.
I’ve been seeing some 2506 motors used on 5-6” builds. What would be the benefits of such a large motor on a smaller quad? Is there a situation or application that would justify the weight?
I could hear from the noise You were riding your throttle more on the 2206. A little rev up on the 2207 threw you over the trees while it was a climb on the 2206. I agree with your assessment. Love the 2207s. I also love the low throttle power of the 2207. So question. Is this equation correct . “ if JB likes = I likes then I am #NerdLikeJB”
@Joshua Bardwell I would describe your quads as "stiff but dampened". This is just my best guess from watching your videos for a couple years. In other words, your tuning seems to be very active to hold attitude, but then dampened to eliminate all P oscillation. Most other quads seem to have a tiny bit more oscillation and prop wash. You hate prop wash with a passion, but you deal with it when there is just no way to get rid of it.
U like the 2207 but i thought your flight with the 2306 was so smooth . Yew 👊
Put two Motors on one side and the other two on the other side of a quad and use Black Box to compare there punch out and top-end thrust and torque differences.
that's really interesting actually
This is an obvious test that I've wondered why no one has ever done. It's not an exact measurement, but at least it's objective. Same goes for prop reviews. Almost all reviews are subjective, they're based on the reviewers feel for them. Two props/motors on one side would allow for direct, and real, comparisons in performance.
then.....why didn't you do it yourself?
Oh yea I was playing with this idea for some time...but with front and rear motors...front with less KV and back with higher
I think it would spin out in a hard punch if they were too different. I could be wrong. Do it.
Since their inception, wider than 22XX on 5" or 6" has always felt lacking in the top end power and control to me. Even testing the Hyperlite 2307 vs 2207, I hugely preferred the 2207. This was most confusing finding to me since they're the same motor other than the width. I've discussed this dilemma extensively with Ryan Harrell of MQTB and there isn't really a clear explanation we could come up with. Comparing a 2306 vs 2207 in terms of power curve, the 2207 definitely has its power band pushed up higher in the RPM range and from Ryan's tests, they do manage higher RPM transitions better as well. With respect to acro, lower pitch props are usually prefered and it makes sense to pair them with a motor that's better in the higher RPM range. I believe the lower pitch props are preferred because they generally 'should' have better overall control and handling since they don't stall as easily. Especially in the lower RPMs. However many steep pitch props these days like the HQ5.1x5.1x3 and original Avan triblade, have design features that are very good at managing this low RPM stall issue and just feel extra awesome on a 2207. But you give up a whole lotta amps for that kinda performance. Emax is testing their 2009 prototypes and finding some interesting results... It would seem that the power band position on the throttle curve is very closely correlated with the motor width and the motor height can expand that band while the kv will attempt to draw it out or pull it in. The part I'm hung up on is that wide motors and high kv don't seem to perform as I would expect by extrapolating from other motors. We've come so far that we're now splitting hairs to fine tune the performance out of these machines. It's awesome
Pretty sure zoefpv/rctimer was selling a 2010 size motor at one point. Apparently it was quite an amp hog, which makes sense I guess, that's a huge jump in stator volume. She liked the added stator height for quicker transition between up and down thrust in 3d flying.
DossKat yeah. That seems to be what emax is noting too.
Kabab FPV 2209? Just remembered the old SunnySky 2212 you used in your 7 inch quad. 😊
@@MCsCreations Just watched that vid. Gonna build one and blast some old sunnyskys on 4s. Balls.
@@angelofaraday5280 What KV are you going to use? I think about making one too with the 2400kv! 😃
Anyway, if you can, tell me the results later! 😃
Buddy I gotta say your flying has come a lonnnng way since I first started watching your channel. Great review! 2207's from now on for this fella. Cheers!
Rob Blackwood #NerdThatFlys.
Good stuff Joshua Bardwell. One problem though. Volume of a cylinder is pi*r^2*h, not pi*d^2*h.
It doesn't really change the comparison, but your numbers for volume are off by a factor of 4.
Yes you're right. I got careless there.
Might have to change the "Know-it-all" name now :)
I was thinking those numbers seemed huge, and attempting to visualize how I could fit that many mm^2 in that tiny cylinder was fruitless
damn, and im sitting here scratching my head, and thinking how the fuck he done his math getting 10ml volume??? heh
Coming from a motorsport background your findings make perfect sense to me and are what I would expect to see too.
In combustion engine terms. Wide stator vs narrow stator of the same displacement could be thought of as a 'long stroke' (narrow cylinder) engine vs a 'short stroke' (wide cylinder) engine.
Short stroke will be less torquey but typically rev higher (lower mechanical stresses) and have greater potential power higher up in the rpm range.
With a wider stator you have more mechanical leverage which suits it well to low down torque and efficiency if you operate in this area of rpm... but if you want top end power you are better off with a wider magnetic flux ring.... akin to the wider flame front in a short stroke racing combustion engine.
Although they show similar bench test static thrust figures... the 2207 will typically unload more and therefore rev higher in free flight and this is why it feels better in real life.
It’s different move direction upside down vs round,2306 has a larger circle,so it rev up slower but more torque.
My first impression (and I could be wrong) is that you need less throttle with the 2207 to do the same. I mean, to get to some high.
Video summary at 14:40
You rock Joshua :D
2307 Motors. Best of both worlds
Just what I was thinking. Hyperlite makes a 2307 - 2522kv, that's only 31g-ish with short wires. Haven't tried them yet though.
I am running LD Power 2307 2450 KV motors... they are some of my favourite motors
Michael Dean they are amazing. I'm awaiting several sets of fpv af 2307 off rmrc
Agreed best of both I run racekraft 2307 smooth power
No... you have to then put amp draw, increased motor weight, heavier lipo etc into the whole equation... and that negates any overall advantage.... it just alters the quads overall performance parameters in a certain direction and that can be either good or bad depending on the course and/or individual flying style.
I really like the "idea" of the wider stators over the taller stators because it gets torque from the mechanical advantage which to me seems more efficient. Sciencey! You got me hooked on RCX motors btw.
The fat motors now have more inertia in the bell housing. But wait, taller motors mean more bending on the shaft and impact damage could be worse on the bearings. Then the cooling should be better on the short wider ones since less air restriction and more surface area. But then the tall motor might be better since.... Such is the life of an engineer trying to make a decision that usually doesn't matter that much... I do that all the time deciding lunch, then after an hour everything sounds delicious.
Torque does not = efficiency though. My cousin's 7.5 liter pickup has a lot of torque, and its certainly not efficient. Much like combustion engines, electric motors can vary wildly based on timing and load (and the speed of the ESC). At the end of the day, you always need to size things for what you want. The 1104 motors on my micro are great, but they wouldn't be good on a phantom, and the 2212 motors wouldn't be good on the micro, both being very inefficient. Hence their will never be a "best" motor.
You don't ever get something for free, physics just won't allow it. So yes every upside has a downside for sure. That being said, I would think generally a wider motor will give you greater mechanical advantage that outweighs the additional force required to spin the wider motor since the props are still a far greater load source than the motor itself, giving a significant boost to efficiency since a large fraction of the extra power gained is from the mechanical advantage and not just from increased power utilization from the battery as would be more true for a taller stator vs a wider stator. A taller stator will have a taller bell housing as well, increasing the mass and requiring more force to spin, so width vs height I would imagine width would at least have more potential for efficiency gains. At some point there is a crossover where the motor is too wide for its own good of course, I just don't know if we've hit that mark yet with 23mm wide stators turning 5" triblade props. But maybe there's something I'm not considering here, and as with many things the devil is in the details so numbers matter, 1mm change in width probably does not equate to 1mm change in height etc. There will never be a best motor, I agree, just a better motor for a specific application. Novel complete.
Interesting to back and look at this and reading the comments after Chris Rosser entered the scene :)
to my eye teach your had more control on 2306 but more fun on 2207 lol like telling kids to count to a 100 but one counts by 1 the other by 5.By having throttle on screen would help viewers in that type of test and good flying nice level up in skill. it also feels like more time on the 2306 also more low end real world trust but it wasnt an efficiency test so dont know if you put that to test lol back from future i see you tested time somewhat. lol make frankinstien motors like me Teach get emax bells and put them on the 2306 the magnets might be stronger lol i also have 2306 on 2305.
2207 for life!
Nah, 2207.5😜👌
@@thomasthmls4038 Nah, 2208 ✔ 🔥
@@jorgeromero4680 I prefer 2205.
@@vhfgamer that's old school motors
nice, always depends on the setup and weight of your kwad, i switched motors a lot from quad to quad to find out what works, i had the best results with lightweight with 2207 and light props like 5043HQ and heavy quads with 2306 with props like cyclone 5046C
Same here - I really like NK2306 2700 kV with 5046C on my race quad - tons of torque, I barely add any throttle in corners. Makes for very consistent speed and lap times.
Same here 😉
what are you consider "heavy" quad? I have Armattan Chameleon. is that a heavy and better with 2306?
Strange I figured you were like the 2306’s better¿ It seems like your flight was a considerable amount smoother and they had more controllable low-end power for cruising through the tight spots 🤷🏻♂️
BarharborBasher ,I was thinking the same thing, his flight with the 2306 seemed smoother and controlled. His 2207 seemed a little more erratic.
That's what I thought too. The 2306 looked a little more controlled.
Ordinary I’d say it was a shill move to push motors for affiliate cash but I don’t think Bardwell has sold his soul yet ... especially with his HDO review and vtx reviews
Nah, if you look at how much inertia and lag those had, it's night and day, the 2306 was wobbly, like held with chewing gum. The 2207 was so sharp in contrast. I wonder how these differ in long range type flight...
2306 vs 2207
can somebody help me with conclusion please ... ?
What FC were you using? Good vid but what about those new 2307's? Lol
Joshua, I was having yaw-twitch problems on two quads with new motors, EMax and Brother Hobby, and found the solution in one of your own 2hr videos from a few months ago. I increased the PWM frequency in BLHeli to 48 and that did the trick. Also, before I increased the PWM freq, the motors were noisy in the Motors tab at certain speeds, but once I increased the PWM the noise cleared up.
I know that sounds does not matter, but guys am I the only one that loves the sound of 2306?? 😍 Much more than the 2207. Feels power
i tried 2306 meny models, emax, rcx, dys... And all have one thing in common, if you want to push it it sucks the battery down when over 2400kv. 2207 2300kvish is a softspot for me, plenty of power, plenty of prop choice and flight times are incredible. Keep an eye on 2305 size, seems to be the new sweet spot with 2350kv and 2500kv.
Good lord you are giving weight to one of Kabab's rants. The world is over.
Just take 5 motor without warranty for same price as 4 with warranty what you don't need ;]
Or buy 9. Or buy 13. Oh wait... I might have a problem.
if you buy at least once with no warranty all motors becomes with no warranty, so why pay more? You won't send it back for repair, but with extra you will have parts from first ;]
Exactly. RCX also is great about stocking extra/spare bells, shafts, and bearings. The only time I ever write off a motor is when I crash hilariously hard, so why pay more.
Just buy 1 with warranty and 3 without, and hope you only break one at a time.
(Don't actually do this)
No warranty if you buy at least one without warranty as they can't tell was it from warranty order ;] so all motors looses warranty!
Hey Joshua ...I just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you have done for us in this amazing hobby, and congratulations on becoming a new member of Rotor Riot......I think your exactly the pilot they need for future growth and continuing the drone camp function. I always have been a fan of your channel as it has been my trouble shooting guide when I couldn't get my Drone working or if it was working and had a problem..... I could always figure it out because you had a video about my problem .....every time!!!!!! ....without your channel I would have bin totally lost and most certainly would have given up, But because I could always fix my problems by listening to your videos it made it easy to find a solution......thank you again man and you never know maybe we will fly together one day!!!! cheers.
2207 has a faster response to throttle input due to the stator width. The height of the magnets allows you to run more aggressive props without “over-propping” your motor. 2306 is going to have an easier time spinning 6” tri-blades than a 2207 or 2208 motor. It’s like a gear in a transmission. The smaller the gear, the less torque can be applied to the driveshaft. The wider the gear, the more torque can be applied. Torque is required to spin larger/more aggressive props.
Propeller and motor pairing has a drastic effect on the performance of a quad. A high KV motor with a high pitch prop is going to be extremely fast but will crush most batteries. If the KV is too high and the pitch too low, your props will flatten out under fast throttle changes (just like tires breaking loose on a car under hard acceleration). If your KV is lower and you run a more aggressive prop, you might have thrust issues in the low end of your throttle range.
Concur on everything - although going to biblade and lower advance ratio in 6" actually feels great on 2207 and 2208 motors. Way better than I expected, especially on hilariously cheap 2208 motors. I've had to toss on some seriously ludicrous 6x5.5x3 props (!) in order to feel like the motor isn't spinning them up super fast, but I still have to violently back that thing into hairpins to mind... but it's an absolute missile, especially on $7 motors.
tehllama42, Which $7 motors? Also, can you explain "advance ratio" in greater detail here? I read this; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_ratio but I'm still unable to visualize how this works on different quad props. TIA
Advance ratio is actually what people should be measuring instead of prop pitch (many do) - essentially how many inches of fluid the propeller should push you through per rotation - think of it as a final gear ratio in a car. 5x5.5x3 Hulkie props have a lot more advance ratio than 5x4x3 V1s, for example.
The $7 motors are the RCX H2208 (4mm shaft) motors, sans warranty. they're only in 2000KV, but for experimenting on 5S or jumping to 6", they're great - I'm also giving them a try on 7042 Gemfan Flash props to see how they're like.
tehllama42, I got a set of those and the cobra 2208 2kkv's still haven't flown yet; 7" props sound about right for them. So, I get what advance ratio is (I think anyway), but how does it change between bi and tri-bladed props?
#2207forLyfe
hahaha you would say that, never see anything else on your channel unless you're testing. What about your freestyle F40 Pro 2 2400s? Not really 2400 if you look at the tested KV though
The F40II PRO is a really solid freestyle motor on a heavy prop.
The RCAddict - I have Chameleon Ti (weight 670g). what do you think, the T-motor F60 Pro II 2500 motors can handle it?
Dys 1806 + 6" + 3s = beast mode
More like nostalgia mode
When? 2012?
Lol. Good riddance fellow time traveler.
lol yeaa , i think so, kakakaka
I am curious about how superlight motors like the NK2204 actually perform compared to heavier, more powerful motors. This line of motors is great!
Did you need to tune the quad differently for the different motors
I totally agree with the preference of 2207s. Granted my 2306 experience was tainted with the emax 2306 2750s, but a massive difference between the two was noted by me.
2306 is working better for me 😎🤘🏽
Hypetrain 2207 Bardewell edition?...
Engineer's answer-
ANGULAR MOMENT- basically you have more "stuff" further from the center. AND the SAME tangential force is at a larger OD. The difference goes back to PI, or ~ +3 times on RADIAL difference. So just a little bit of diameter goes A LOT further than a linear iterpolation.
Thank you very much
I think people are still questioning what to get. It would be good to get your opinion on what would be better for say a beginner, intermediate, expert flyer. I am a beginner and still not sure what would be best to see me through to intermediate flying. I get you like the 2207 (That`s fine for an experienced flyer) but it would be good to know how they handle a bit more for different skill sets. Don't get me wrong, love your work and this vid is helping me decide, but I am still a little confused.... ;-) Cheers Bud.
I only hope the quality of those motors got better. Year ago got me some 2206 and spare bells. Balancing mud was literally flying off of them while flying. Anything that held up through the flight was out upon first contact with grass during light crashes on densly covered field. I'm not even exaggerating right now. Racerstar motors felt way more reliable to them. With that said, they weren't bad, still use them on trash rig. But if you're looking for a smooth motor that's gonna held up to some abuse and still provide a smooth footage, skip on those for sure. The only positive side about them is the availability of spare parts which makes them semi-good racing or practice motors.
Next JB todo list: ESC amp/responsiveness testing for comparison (and finding yaw twitch reasons/potential noise reasons) ?
your flying looks much beter with 2306 becose 2207 was also more noisy (oscilations? ) like viewer I like more 2306 but may be for pilot is beter 2207 ? becose of quicklier response ? witch one are closer to 2205 2300kv ? thnx :)
interesting, 2306 most agressive, 2207 most flow
Seems to me you were flying higher on 2306, maybe you aren't as used to the lower end torque? Do you normally fly 2207?
I really hate to burst your bubble....no I don't, hahahehe!! If you like those 2207's take you a gander at the PRIMO 2208's from MB!!😉
15:56 This is how a quad twitch sounds like :)
I think the 2207 didn't have to work as hard I am going off the sound. And the pid sounded like to much D
Dx 2205 crazepony well i got get dirty with this i guess i have to text continuity check my pdb i really dont know where to start . It seen that there are power everywhere i dont know if i havent done what i have to do with the radio .
I prefer the 2306 2400kv motors for freestyle. I like the bottom end torque that they provide. In the end it all boils down to flying style and how you want your quad to feel. Great video JB👍
Seems like the 2207 are willing to scream a bit louder. IMO.
Here I am thinking my 1407's are massive ! ;p
#3inch4life
These motors have horribly spaced magnets though...
Hard to tune!
Have the receiver on the kwad but i guess i dont know more can't believe this shit lol
100% my exact findings between 2306 and 2207 on other brands as well Josh. Literally. I get longer flights with 2207 even though the amp draw is slightly higher as well and I think it’s due to the higher torque and faster speed of the quad that I don’t need to be on the throttle nearly as hard. I find on 2306 I need to be on the throttle a LOT more and my flights get very short. I love 2207 and will never buy more 2306. You literally mirrored my exact findings between the two motor sizes, even your descriptions of the two. Thanks again and great thorough testing!!
- Travis
Surprising. I thought you flew more confident with the 2306.
Maybe I was just having more fun on 2207.
But your flight was actually awesome on 2306
it depends which brand you try and how they make it...I like the Brother Hobby 2306 R5...the 2306 have a bit more torque in the low end which feels better for freestyle IMO...hence most of the freestyle motors being this size...hypetrains, steele, more popular T motor F40 Pro 2...etc...but some do prefer 2207 high kv...
SupaflyFPV This is like the line in Something About Mary. “Ever hear of 8 minute abs? I’ve got something better. Are you ready? 7 minute abs.”
lol 7 is better tho right? Ask T motor which sell the best F40 Pro 2 or F60 - they are the same price...
"and we promise just a good of a work out as the 8 minute folk"
"how"
" uhhhh... if, if your not happy with your work out we will send you the extra
minute free, yea thats it"
2306+5s= warp speed haha!
That's my setup ;-)
and 30 second flights ?
Na average of 3 to 4 minutes..
Same as HardTime. Gone some distance too.
it's a good set up! The other day I flew almost 2000ft out and back and still had enough pack left to rip around
Fpvmodel hurricane 2207 and miniquadtestbench gave it a thumbs up. Similar price point. There is also the BBB 2207 and rcaddict love them for the power and smoothness.
Jack Truong
Hi, i got 2306 r5 and 2207 bbb all bnew, which is better? Torque, speed and efficiency, tnx men need advice
ashmawikali143 sorry man, I have either of the motors. It is not an easily question to answer, both of the motors will give you the performance you need but if you are looking for more efficient motors i would recommend 2205 motors with hyper light build for not so serious racing. For freestyle I definitely go for bigger motors like yours. Between BBB and BH, BH is a bigger brand imo. However I have heard a lot of good things about BBB 2207. With BBB 2207 I think there is only one kV, which is really high for racing but great for freestyle. BH 2306 has two kV
I believe. If I would choose I will go for BH 2450kv which is the right kV for racing. For freestyle higher kV. BH 2306 uses 7075 , BBB 2207 no idea and not mentioned in spec,which I suspect it could be 6061.
Joshua. Or buy one with warranty and 3 without it.
Bottom line: 13:06
+ Joshua Bardwell I think your calculations are out.
Area of a circle is R squared x pi. I think you are squaring D.
I don't think this makes much difference for volume ratio comparison.
But I'm a nerdy mc nerd nerd so I can't help myself.
So for the case of the 2306
23/2 ==11.5
( 11.5 x 11.5 ) x 3.14 x 6 == 2419.6 mm3
Or for the 2207
22/2==11
(11 x 11) x 3.14 x 7 = 2659.6
As a metric native 10,000 cubic millimetres just seemed intuitively wrong.
You're right. But the difference is still 7%.
Joshua, man I live your videos. Keep up the good work. Hope to get to shake your hand one day. Anyway. I came across one of Crash Hancock's OPQ quad frames. Its 346 mm and weighs about 7 oz.. I would like to know what size motor/prop you would recommend. I have your F4 FC AND 4 IN 1 ESC. I'm just a casual flyer. I would like some punch though. Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks again.
I'm not really sure what prop or motor would be ideal for a bug quad like that.
I have both of these exact motors. The 2207s rock! They just released an "economy" 2207 for 9.99. Maybe different magnets? But I dont understand why people try to steer you away from 2207 motors. They are perfect for the way I fly. They have amazing torque so they are great for quick movements. But I did notice that I dont get as much flight time with the 2207s. Great video!
Awesome depth review as always. Thats why I love this chanell so much!
Hey Joshua, I don't get the amps on the motors and esc. I have the JB 4 in 1 30 amp esc. All of the motors i shop for 2207, 2306 even 2205's on the spec data show drawing more than 30 amps between 3/4 and full throttle turning 5-4 and 6-4 props on 4s. I can't seem to find a motor prop combination to work with my esc. Am I looking at or calculating something wrong or maybe I need a bigger esc? Any ideas. Thanks.
Motors draw a lot more current on the bench than in the air. A 30 amp ESC is fine for almost any 5" prop. Also remember there is a burst rating. So the 30 amp ESC can do 40 or 45 amps for a few seconds.
Joshua, You talk about motors on this vid so I posted my problem here. I built a 5" quad using DALRC Engine 40A 4-in-1 ESC and EMAX 2206 2550kv motors. problem is the motors get very hot. would these motors be too small for a 5"?
2206 is plenty big enough for 5". Used to be all we had!
If the motors are getting super hot, first test with a multimeter to see if the screws are touching the windings.
th-cam.com/video/eo2sjTNS0pc/w-d-xo.html
Next, if you have turned on 32k gyro mode or played with the filters, put all that back to defaults.
I could tell that you were up higher in the video with the 2207. Just because that happened to me when I lowered my cam angle. All of the sudden the thrust I was used to giving shot me way up in the air. Kind of the same way more thrust = more height in the flight.
22mm is the diameter, volume is pi * r^2 * h.
James Smith: calling me a “plank” is not very effective, unless I am the only one who doesn’t know what you are referring to, do you mean a piece of wood like “dumb as a stump”? In any case, it is name calling and therefore, not particularly effective or valuable.
As far as Knowitall goes, he should call himself “the FPV Know it all” which he does not :)
Then again, you are sounding like a know-it-all, since you seem to be the only one using plank as an attempted insult...
FPV Know-It-All is the name of the company.
I'll admit, I am one of those people demanding at least an nod to your opinion.
Can I request your opinion on 5043 vs 5051? I've been flying for almost a year, but I still can't subjectively describe the difference between props. I feel the difference with props, but not uniformly as I go up in pitch.
You'd have to start by telling me exactly which props you're talking about. Lots of manufacturers use the same numeric designation to refer to different blade designs.
volume is r^2*pi*h, not D^2*pi*h 3:55
Good one. 2306 or 2207 draws more amp??
14:42 that would make sense since they have a smaller moment, or rotating inertia since the weight of the bell is brought in closer. You could try adding a bit of weight with copper tape to the motor and see if that takes the advantage away maybe?
I love all your vids JB, and sorry to be THAT guy, but I believe you've slipped up because V=πr^2h not πD^2h. Sorry to bring it up, but no one had mentioned it yet :)
About a zillion people have mentioned it ;-)
The good news is, the ratio is still the same, so saying 2207 is 7% bigger doesn't change.
The bad news is, it turns out 2306 and 2207 have different bearing size so the volume is not proportional to the stator size. 2207 is actually only about 5% bigger.
for a beginner is 2207 better tan 2306?
For freestyle flying, is there an "ideal" prop for the 2207 motors? I know that weight, battery size etc will have huge influences, but I'm completely ignorant about how to choose a prop.
Personally I like 5x4.3x3 and around 2600kv.
Can someone please explain what the 4 Numbers mean exactly in generel? Which Numbers says how big which Part of the Motor is?
23 is the diameter of the stator, 06 is the height.
What about the sunny sky 2207 ?
Hey Josh where do you live if you dont mind me asking? Im a Pool tech and ill come and throw a new liner in that pool for you if you live close to me!! I cant help but notice it for the last 4 months ive been watching your videos.
It's empty for the winter is all.
A spinning bigger diameter wheel with same rpm contains more kinetic energy, will spin longer, than a smaller diameter. So on continuous throttle the large diameter is more efficient and with much throttle change the smaller diameter is more efficient. Which would be race vs free style, 2306 vs 2207.
Your basic physics is correct but I think you are missing a lot. The prop has a lot more mass, a lot farther from the center, so I think the inertial moment of a 2207 with prop is not that different than 2306. The different stator size develops torque differently too, although I don't know enough about brushless motor theory to speak more about that.
@@JoshuaBardwell yes there are more variables. And assuming the same props are used, the prop weight is not one of the variables. My prop is 6 gram and motor bell is 14 grams.
Maybe test/measure the inertia of both motors.
I cut the propeller tips outside the motor of and put them on the scale. The prop inside the motor diameter is 6 grams and the three tips together only 0 grams. My scale is not very precise I'm afraid.
this flight makes me completely sick
Me watching this with 2206 :/
OK I have been in electronics since high school, service manager and head tech. at a TV Repair shop ,and all I could say is it looks and sounded like it took less power but more of a punch was the 2207, I also love the RCX Brand more than any other brand for a discount motor. THANKS JOSH ! Looks like I will get these 2207 for my 220mm 5in. frame. have a great week . JohnnyDRC
Hi Joshua, great job done I'd say. Do you plan to make such video also for motors for 7" quads? I mean for free style or long range kind of copters. Or in this case it does not matter so much? Currently I am using in my 7" LR quads 2408 motors (Hyperlite actually). but there could be also some other motor size options, what do you think? ;)
Using both. My race build is sett up with 2207.6 on my Hyperlite Floss 3.0. On my source one v3 freestyle build I'm flying 2306. They both fly amazing. For awhile I had them the other way race build had the 2306 an freestyle had the 2207.
No wonder, birds stay away.
I recently purchased the f-40 pros and the f-60 pros which is a 2306 and a 2207.. I never felt the low end torque on the 2306 like you would think. The 2207 always felt more responsive and torquey but didn't have the top end speed the 2306 provided. And when flying with a go-pro I always go with a 2207-2407 so that I can't tell the go pro is on the quad. So.. top speed=2306... 2207=immediate response, torque and speed with out the top end of the 06'.
I'm confused when it comes to my 7 inch build. I keep being told that 2306 or 2305 is too small for my quad at 1800kv 6s. I know the kv is wayyyy too high and need somthing like 1400 and lower! Is it too small and what would you reccomend 24xx 25xx? Its 6s on a tight budget. It came with these motors amd flew ok and went to hell after trying the first bf 4.0. The motors are now on my remix 5.5" build and fly insane but I want the 7" to be my long range with light acro on 6s. I'm pissed at emax I have 5 junk motors from them and do not recommend them. The shafts and bearings are trash!
For me it’s the 2206 Lumenier I’m currently using, there is ABSOLUTELY no point in changing motors for just a little “i think it’s better” doesn’t it works fine? what is gonna make people fly better is to fly, does not matter what! a better motor or battery will NOT make anyone fly better, flying will!
Just don’t waste your money folks!
Joshua Bardwell, you didnt mention in the video, but I assume you were using the same prop on both motors - I understand you are trying to compare only the motor difference, but it may be a little unfair, as you could be playing into one more than the other. We all know that some motors just shine better with a particular prop - sometimes even an unexpected prop. I would highly suggest you try to put a little more aggressive prop on the 2306 and try again. I run mostly Dal Cyclones, with the 5046-tri being the go-to default, and these work near flawlessly on my RDQ 2207/2450kv quad. However, I also have a near identical bird with Brother Hobby Deadpool 2306/2450. (keep in mind the RDQ is just a rebranded R5 so similar comparison as your rcx motor pair) This quad did not feel quite right on the 5046. I didnt want to believe a more aggressive prop would make it feel better, but the 2306 bird SINGS on 5050 tri cyclones! The feel of the quads is still different, but I really cant day one is clearly better than the other with the right prop.
I'd love to hear your feedback if you were to try bumping up the prop pitch on the 2306 just a hair..
Looks like the 2306 RCX's have suffered from the Bardwell Effect - wiped out of stock at RCMart since May! (in reality seems it's a bearing supplier issue). Next best suggestion in similar or slightly higher price range?
I've had good luck with dys shu 2306 2500kv motors 10 bucks each, but you make me wish i picked the other dys motors lol. The biggest Motors I've ran previously were 2206 I was expecting a massive power gain and there is more power just not as much as I expected.
We'll thanks Joshua now I want a set of 2207.... can't afford them, but if Joshua Bardwell says they're better they're better... you're my Fpv idol bud striving to be as knowledgeable as you. .
It kinda looked like you had more fun with the 2306... You didn't do as much crazy stuff with the 2207. It did look like the 2207 had a more stable flight.
Thanks again JB
my b hobby 2207's are great. if you want to full stick it, they go. if you want to freestyle, they pop.
samguk wei's are also great. just not as immediate on the stick. using higher kv 2600 or 2700 you notice the difference in torque.
2306's are also great but I havent spent the money on top end motors in this size. my preference has been the 2207's, even over 2307's. the difference in performance wasnt much but the battery usage was radical.
thanks for posting.
I thought I had a really clever idea, but I was backwards!
I did the same math as you, but I also subtracted out the volume of the bearing to get closer to the volume of the actual windings. Surely the volume gap between the 2306 and 2207 would appear even bigger then, right?!
Nope. This is where I was backwards. Instead of your 7% difference, I came up with a 5% difference.
Definitely more juicy
which is better to do quick flips and rolls.. so i guess which have quicker inital burst?
Honestly they will both spin the quad faster than you could ever ask for.
Can I put a 2207 on 3" cinewhoop? What will happen if I do? I know the recommended stator size for 3" is in the 1100-1400 range, but why? 🤔
2306 is for gnarly slow, smooth, precision flying and 2207 is for big powerloopy dynamic flying across big areas. 2207 can do both but 2306 can only do one. 2207 is better for me.
I’ve been seeing some 2506 motors used on 5-6” builds. What would be the benefits of such a large motor on a smaller quad? Is there a situation or application that would justify the weight?
I could hear from the noise You were riding your throttle more on the 2206. A little rev up on the 2207 threw you over the trees while it was a climb on the 2206. I agree with your assessment. Love the 2207s. I also love the low throttle power of the 2207. So question. Is this equation correct . “ if JB likes = I likes then I am #NerdLikeJB”
@Joshua Bardwell
I would describe your quads as "stiff but dampened". This is just my best guess from watching your videos for a couple years. In other words, your tuning seems to be very active to hold attitude, but then dampened to eliminate all P oscillation. Most other quads seem to have a tiny bit more oscillation and prop wash. You hate prop wash with a passion, but you deal with it when there is just no way to get rid of it.
Should have added stick values. For comparison. That way you could slightly measure inputs for the different motors. Same drops vs inputs.