"Dynamic Idle" the most useful Betaflight feature you never heard of
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2020
- Uncertain about what to buy? Check out THE ULTIMATE FPV SHOPPING LIST: www.fpvknowitall.com/ultimate...
SUPPORT ME ON PATREON at: bit.ly/2Ep5Sia
THIS IS MY FULL TIME JOB. Here are other ways that you can support me: www.fpvknowitall.com/support-me/
---
Dynamic Idle is one of the most under-appreciated, little-known features of Betaflight 4.1. But it'll make your quadcopter fly better and fix problems you didn't even know you had.
This video shows the "bobble" at low throttle caused by idle_min too low:
• I flew 3 packs every d...
This video shows the result with idle increased:
• I flew 3 packs every d...
The FB thread where the "smart guys" taught me all about this feature, including some aspects uof Dynamic Idle not discussed here:
/ 747462415789109
Quad66's tutorial video that made a lot of this make sense for me:
• Betaflight Dynamic Idl...
How do you figure out what a good idle_min value is? LONG STORY SHORT -- take your idle%, convert it to RPM using the Motors tab, then set idle_min to 80% of that value. That is a guideline that has come out since this video was made, and it's one of the biggest questions people ask.
So for clarification, if your dshot idle calculates to 2200rpm then 80% would 1660rpm and that is what you would set you idle_min_rpm?
I know im off subject... My pitch and roll are switched on setup display in cleanflight. Tried setting board alignment off by 90 degrees but still no change. Also the elevator toggles backward. Box model rtf "RAPID" by world tech elite with an spf3
@@trixshop5188 Im pretty sure JB has a video about that - this might be helpful..... th-cam.com/video/1azl1f8qJ84/w-d-xo.html
How to:
Take Props off
Go into Motors tab
Connect a LiPo
Set the "I understand the risk slider"
Spin the Motors up to your idle value which is 10XX where XX is your %.
So 5,5% would be 1055.
Then have a look at the actual RPM above each motor slider
Multiply it by 0.8
and you have your idle_min_rpm
@@dominikthone512 if dshot idle value is 5.5 shouldn’t that be 5.5% of 2000? I.e 1110?
Cheers. The quick video was the least I could do for how many times I’ve used your tutorials.
Right? Same boat, I'm still using them now anytime my first braille method approach to something doesn't work out the first time.
Never call yourself "not smart" Josh! The smartest people can take complex material and explain it simply to others who do not understand. Thanks for all you do! Much love!
Such a nice and humble guy, not taking all the credit for other people’s hard work but also helping the fpv community to understand these features
Joshua, you are by definitions a true intellectual , thats what u do, make complex subjects understandable to the average person. Thanks much!
Try to understand everything when you're French with a small English 🤯🤯🤯.
I WILL LEAR SOMETHING TODAYYYY 😂🤣
@@enriquemaillard-mora9193 when u understand more than one language your pretty smart too.🌝
Interesting as advertised! Thanks JB, these kinds of tips don't just help pilots get better, it advances the entire hobby. Shoutout to the BF devs for their work!
Worth mentioning that if you are running 4.3 Betaflight today (quote from BetaFlight): "When Dynamic Filtering is active the static idle value is disregarded, because the idle value is continually adjusted to maintain the configured minimum rpm on the slowest motor." It warns you of this now and they have a nice little field under the PID tab to adjust (alongside some other handy motor/throttle settings), you don't have to use the CLI unless you want to. They also recommend min value of 3000-3500 RPM now instead of 14000. Love the videos, these have helped me out immensely!
Yup just enabled rpm filtering and it enabled dynamic idle automatically, and it fixed my desync at 0 throttle issue.
JB- if I asked a question about fc’s to the devs, I wouldn’t know what language they were responding in. You do. You are my interpreter. I thank you for having the education and experience to ask the right questions. And then the really important part, remember the answer and put an eloquent video together to let me learn something today! Esoteric at my stage of flying, but hopefully will need in the future.
Wow. I started out as a LOS pilot and when I switched to FPV I needed a high idle value and didn't know why. I just took my first rip with dynamic idle settings adjusted and this is how I should have been flying all along. I don't know why this isn't a hot topic in FPV conversations but Thank you Joshua!
Dam you Bardwell, that’s another 17mins off my nightly sleep quota!
As always good info and kind of got me thinking about how to get more hang time…..
I don't even have a quad yet but when I can afford a decent set up I will (hopefully) have a better idea as to what I'm doing thanks to your videos. Keep up the good work and beginners thank you.
Great video! You would be a great teacher/professor! You are great at explaining everything. Thanks for all you do!
BOOM!!!!
Finally an answer, thank you Bardwell.
I've been lowering idle min in order to grind and slide. Keep getting death rolls when smash technical flips, particularly with yaw.
A tip! When mid death, roll you can shake it free by jamming yaw back and forth, then drawing it out and catch it.
What you describe is almost literally what airplane pilots do to get out of a "spinning fall" (not english native, not sure how to call it)
I had to higher my idle speed as a beginner at first I had no clue why my kwad death rolled, I might have a weak motor but I learned a lot with JB's videos, and I didn't get a death roll today when I did yesterday, time to tune PIDs and lower filters for prop wash now :) (already didn't get that much today with rpm filtering via a beta BLHeliS release but I didn't test it that much bc I was scared of motor desync)
Brand new to droning. I have a traxxas aton that im cutting my teeth on. I finally purchased a build kit from rotorriot.com with dji hd fpv. Take into mind i am so new that im still wet behind the ears. I enjoy your videos, they have taught me so much. Looking forward to fpv’ing!
Man!!! Great informative video once again. You break it down so nicely always!! Big thx
Very informative Josh as always. I have been using this feature for quite some time now and I agree with you this is a very useful tool when used properly you can definitely get better performance as always thank you for the awesome video keep up the good work.
Why is there no double like button! This is one of your best videos in ages( I'm not saying your other videos aren't awesome, I'm praising this one). This is the kind of videos that got me hooked in the first place! Thank you!
Bless you for putting that time stamp in for everyone who cant sit still for more than 7 seconds....
Thanks a lot no one is talking about this, excellent explanation.
This is the shiz you are good at. Freaking love it. Keep deep diving into this stuff.
Thanks Josh! I would have loved to see a before and after but I appreciate the video none the less!
Hey man, just wanted to say I enjoy your content as someone who is looking to get into drones!
Thanks Josh from Australia! This is why my heavy 7 inch 6S always flys so unpredictable 😁
Right on the spot! It was a topic with a friend while checking his configuration done by someone and his idle was set to 2. I was surprised to see such low value and asked if the person who set it knows what he was doing... Now the idle value has more clearer meaning to me, definetrly learned a big thing today. Instantly checked one of my quad and idle_min_rpm is set to 0 as default. As I understood in order to activate the dymanic idle, We have to put some value, right. I know it may seen a dumm question, yet I just need the clarification. Thanks Boss!
holy muck, your left handed and you tilt your page just like you are supposed to. i am left handed and i never learned the right way to tilt the page and i write like crap. my daughter is left handed and we are trying to make sure she tilts the page correctly just like you do. way to go man. doing it right :)
Another great video. Thank you JB.🏋️👍
Nicely said Bardwell!
Thanks, Josh Bardwell!
Thank u for teaching in to this. Hi from Latvia! Thank u for teach us more!
Josh this vid may be answer to my dsync I had. I check mine and idle min rpm was on default 0. Definitely will give this a try to as I get it rebuilt! Thank you
Thanks once again for an awesome explanation!
I feel I may be missing some of the usefulness. Take the "Vanover" case where your using a higher idle. Isn't activating dynamic idle removing some of that benefit? If the motor loses torc at low speeds, you are essentially allowing for the lower torc on those motors again. Is it that the lower torc is outweighed by the smaller range the other motors need to move? I think seeing the math would help. Thinking more, I guess it's redistributing a small amount of the work required to a slower but parallel process. In this way, I can see a nominal benefit that most people wouldn't notice and probably not worth the effort. Thanks for this interesting video!
I'm running a raging droner with t motor f60 pro 4 1950kv. I left the stock 5.5 idle and put 20 in dynamic idle. I'm using configurator 10.7 RC1 and 4.2 RC1. It's definitely a great feature that improves flight performance. I'm a huge fan after trying it out. Thanks JB
Edit. I ended up getting much better results doing proper math. It's definitely something that needs to be followed to a T for optimal results
Now we have BetaFlight 4.5 just released 😊
Awesome rundown JB!!
If folks want to get to "zero" prop wash, tune your stuff and raise idle to 8 or 9 percent. Dynamic idle takes that improvement one (little?) step further.
'Zero' propwash AND the ability to chuck into massive rainbow-shaped inverted yaw spins? Yeah.
Realistically, I only got into this because I had a pesky 7" 6S rig that would hover at 9% throttle, but when I tried racing it would desync at values below half that.
I was wondering about that! thx
UAV Tech what do you recommend if i run dshot idle value on 5.5 percent with 2600 rpm. What should i set on idle min rpm? Is 12 ok which JB has in the Video?
9% idle will kill your inverted hang time but help your propwash. Does it really take that much idle to fix your propwash?
@@Ozzy3333333 , prop was is never "fixed".
Thanks JB great video 👍 super informative 👍 👍
You may not be the smartest guy, but you're a really freaking good teacher.
I'm not the smartest guy, or the funniest, but I'm also not the best looking.
Electric motors actually have max torque when starting from stall and the torque goes downwards as the RPM increases because magnetic field cannot be modulated fast enough due inductance. However, the current generation of brushless motors do not have required sensors to actually push the motor hard from stall so that's why you need minimum RPM for max performance.
Always enjoy watching your vids, always learning something new , question - will this work on smaller quads for example say a tiny whoop , tiny 7 , quads with brushed motors ? keep well brother and keep teaching us...
I expect it would work well on any quad, but quads like micros, where the idle speed is often much higher, may particularly benefit.
These are the videos I love
Thanks ;)
Oh wow WA ici, je me suis mis au fpv à cause de vous :)
My brain is freezing... 😂 But a the third or sixth view Il will learn something for sure 👌
glad im not the only one who has to watch his videos more than once lol
As im typing could we see a few flights .... Bam!!! He says it lol. Thanks as always sir
I usually use a 6.5 to 8.5 min idle depending how new or old my motors are. Reason being I like heavy props and hate de-sinks, but inverted I fall like a brick🤣
This could help, and reckon this is worth a go for sure.
Thanks...
Fantastic! thank you
A mounted prop will affect stall, a lot more weight to get/keep rotating, so higher torque via rpm is needed.....as you found out😎
VERY WELL EXPLAINED THANKS
My understanding of dynamic idle was that it used the rpm data to make sure the motors never stalled whilst allowing a much lower minimum idle overall.
This is probably useful for making last minute adjustments when flying as your quad should be less floaty.
This is one approach, but the smart folks I talked to seemed to think this was actually not the way to get the best results out of dynamic idle. That a quad will generally fly better with a higher idle speed, and the value of dynamic idle was allowing a higher idle speed without a net increase in idle rpm due to the PID loop needing to speed up motors.
Great video!
This is why I afilliate you always jb ....thanks ;)
A while ago , I lowered the idle speed down as far as I could , on some kwads as low as 1.5 % and stopped using air mode . But will be interested in trying this out .
Quad66 knows his stuff peeps! the 1s magician! His latest tune video taught me more than any other tune vid.
thnx for the explanation! maybe you could make more video's about features we do not use much, e.g. thrust linearization
I'm learning something today 👍
Chris Thompson is a legend!
Thank you
LOVE THAT T-SHIRT!!! Thanks for this post!! I learned something today!!!!
Yay another video!
JB, have you ever thought about exporting the audio from all your videos and posting them up as podcasts? I do a lot of driving and can't have TH-cam open but would love to follow with all you post. I know you need video to get the full experience and see some of the differences between cameras and such, but it would be great to listen to everything and control it in the car. Just a thought as you have great content. I could even listen to stuff I'm catching up on while riding a plane this way and use a variety of podcast apps.
My first bit of tuning advice is always to up the min_throttle, I'm up to 16% on some builds! This helps out massively with my inverted yaws dropping like bricks :)
magicalpencil I don’t understand. When you’re inverted and motors are spinning faster you should fall faster, not slower...
@@prottentogo Yea, makes zero sense
Thanks!
Hi Joshua! As you pointed out, it is bad to let the motor speed drop too low. The motors are powerful when they spin fast, but they are surprisingly weak at starting up especially when faced with oncoming air. That is, of course, the main reason why we all use the idle speed to keep our motors from ever spinning that slow. So, here's my question... If I set my main idle speed to be just enough to prevent the low RPM problems, then why would I want to let idle_min_rpm spin the props slower under any circumstance? I may tell the quad to do a hard roll at zero throttle, and it may want to lower the speed of the motors on one side, but a hard low-throttle roll still isn't a good time to have motors stuttering because of low RPMS.
So, I think it's a really interesting feature but I don't use it for myself. In your video, you claimed that idle_min_rpm might help Vanover bring down his high idle speed, but I think you got that part backwards. If you use idle_min_rpm to prevent low rpm problems, then you are free to increase the main idle speed to your desired feel. Some people might intentionally increase the main idle speed above idle_min_rpm to make it feel more floaty. Some people like Vanover might increase the main idle just to increase resolution on the throttle stick (because that lower part of the throttle would be unused in a race anyway). Before idle_min_rpm there was more of a downside to having a really high main idle speed, but now you can tune the feel of your idle separate from idle_min_rpm which is just there to set the absolute minimum RPM you're willing to use. Still an interesting feature. Just a different way to think about it. Cheers!
Wow, what a coincidence this is exactly what I was looking for. I like to do a lot of max throttle runs, and towards the end I go to zero throttle, then quickly turn around, and then as the quad starts slowing down, it will occasionally do a half roll and fall a bit I believe because of motor stall from low voltage and slow voltage recovery? Most of the time I can quickly recover, but occasionally if I’m flying too low, it will stall, do a half roll, and crash into the ground upside down, and I think this might fix that.
Holy shit! A new shirt!
I'm Learning...
I learned that maybe my de-syncs are from setting my idle percentage too low... never dawned one me
Yeah I thinks that's what's been happening to me
Me too...
Motors have weird non-linear behaviors at both extremes, it can be a bit finnicky. This approach should solve that though.
I only had to bother learning this because I was getting desyncs on my 6S 7" setup, and it wants to hover at 9% throttle.
Not a guarantee to fix the problem, but if you are already having issues, definitely run the slightly higher values over the calculated ones to make sure (and then test at worst case high speed split-s entries and such)
same here^^
What a relief, I was really down because I couldn't really find the reason. This is a new thing to look into :)
Thanks JB!
I find if your ds are too low or your ps are too high.... I was getting flip of death.. messed with the pids. Idk how that could make the difference but it did..! No more fod! Try lowering ps and see if it goes away..
sweet video dude. this may fix the death roll issue I've been having on one kwad. on sharp rolls with a sharp ending it goes straight into death roll. I think it has to do with the motors i have on it. i was using the same type of motor on another quad that did it to me. but smashed a motor the first death spin and swapped brands. no issues since on that one. Thanks for the tips. might save me $60 in motors. 🤘🤘
has anyone had issues with the Armattan sabotage rc Booty motors? they seem to be the cause of my issues, thanks,
I didn't understand how this work and what it's used for at all from this video, nice for getting attention that this feature exists though. Would greatly suggest everyone to just read what's written in betaflight documentation about dynamic idle, it's well written and super easy to understand.
It's really not at all, and even the people in the JESC group think that the Wiki page is terrible at communicating what the feature does and how to tune it. Please click through to the FB group link in my video description if you want to read more about it.
@@JoshuaBardwell Ok, I do agree that it can be improved, but nonetheless it's quite clear what it does from reading it (not in a detailed manner (this I wish was explained somewhere, because it's quite unclear how exactly idle values are changing on what conditions), but in general). It's stated there that using bidirectional dshot rpm data some external conditions can be ignored for idle_min_rpm floor and thus motors can spin quite slowly without desync issues. And I totally agree that then it can get a bit tricky to think of its usefulness, but thinking about rotations it's quite obvious that slowing down a bit more some of the motors would help to make a certain moves more precise and efficient. Anyways, thanks for the video, wouldn't have known about this feature without it! :)
Just had a desync at zero throttle with my 3 inch build resulting in a crash. Enabling bidirectional dshot and dynamic idle sure enough fixed the issue. Also feel that enabling rpm filter and disabling first gyro filter resulted in much more responsive flight characteristics.
I did notice the better braking from using it. The trick is finding the right idle speed to keep performance at its best
In new 10.7 configurator, Dynamic Idle RPM is on PID tuning page. It is set to 0 at default. This is why the wobble is there in 4.2. Hope they fix or have it “slide” with increase in throttle percent.
thank you is very well explained ;)
ESC temp display and warning are another obscure useful features, especially if you're running absolute minimum filtering. ESC and motor temperature are linearly correlated and can indicate whatever you're about to burn a motor due to excessive noise. These settings can only be accessed through CLI.
Very true, although with most of the dynamic filter and RPM filtering capability, ESCs tend to stay pretty cool, even being pushed to the point where motors are getting hot again in my experience... although I tend to encounter these conditions after I 'encounter' solid objects with my props
Do you really need that? My ESC can do 60A and the motors can't do much less. The battery, even a GNB 130C, only manages half. So nothing can smoke up.
It depends, @@BBFPV. If you're running default filter, then temp display won't help much. I run very minimal filter so the temp display is a must have because whatever I clip gates or things where my prop bends to a point where it generates noise which gets amplified in the PID loop and my motors will get real hot real quick.
It's not about whatever you're going to overload one of your system, but if you're getting noise into your motors, the motors and ESCs will heat up until the enamel on the winding gets burned and you could get short circuit which may burn ESC as well. Just play it safe.
@@Asu01 Therefore you should use RPM filters, even with bl_S because then a notch filter is on the motor rpm and even with bent propellers the pid didn't amp motor/prop out of balance. I now have the filters on 1.4 and the motors stay cold.
For testing its ok but every day use i don't like OSD overload.
my esc will remain stone cold even while literally burning up all 4 motors at once
what you are really looking for is motor current, which you can roughly see in motor throttle in blackbox. i wish betaflight had some automatic detection of a motor sticking out in terms of thrust vs throttle because its the quickest way to spot a bad motor or prop.
U made my Day... once again... ;)
Great informative vid as always! Would you have a link to a complete setup video for all these new features in the new betaflight? Or are they spread out.👌
Here is my 4.1 playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLwoDb7WF6c8kH_vLskPnY5xjuT284rhmj.html
@@JoshuaBardwell Thanks much appreciated.👍
Ah... Brilliant video as always.
Sooo what have I learnt?
Erm stick to stock BF settings and go and fly.
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
The feature I'm looking forward to trying in 4.2 is NFE race mode for micros.
Thank you JB, On top of that, what is the behavior if you change value in BLheli like Throttle Min into a lower or upper value than the default in ESC firmware configuration ?
tanks buddy.
time stamp love it. you say its good i do it
Wow, very interesting!
Been using this for a while now, it's based off max rpm, rpm filters have to be enabled, and transient throttle has to be off. I use idle min rpm of 15 for 6s 2000kv.
I need to check it myself too. But, on Mamba F405 MK2 stock min idle is 3.0 which is quite low already. Thanks for sharing Joshua!
The point is that with dynamic idle you can raise that so your quad flies better at zero throttle, without giving up the ability of the motors to go below that point if they need to.
@@JoshuaBardwell Hi never flown just got mobula7 hd can't set it up in betaflight just about got it binded I'm almost giving up on it if you could give us some info many thanks 👍
Couldn’t pass this one ☝️ up. Thanks for the info JB 👍
Im a freestyle pilot and usualy up my idle speed a bit more than default. I found it helps on propwash. Thanks for the explanation... going to try in the nexr flight.
It's a bit of time and effort to get there, but if you can get the same awesome propwash performance, this can get you a bit better inverted throw
tehllama42 is that hard to tune dynamic idle ?
New vid! yayy!
You are a celebrity sir
Ho Hooo you say good things. This piques my interest for I throw 6 in props and have acquired a taste for inverted ticks with hang time. To be honest this still is at the time of this comment my first acro drone the Butter Kwad. But reviewing other 5 inch freestyle drones with inverted yaw spins and such I'm realizing the 6 inch props arrest my drone faster then what I wish to achieve. Believe me I've tried. Don't even get me started on PID tuning. One problem after the other 😩 Will delve into this for sure. But I'm almost ready to throw in the towel on my Butter Kwad for what I'm trying to achieve. It hasn't quite turned out the multi tool I had envisioned. Never expected it to be a master of Cinema, Long Range and Free Style but something just don't add up. Pitch slow wobbles are really sticking in my craw too. P's over 120 now....I's at 60. maybe should just slam it at 250 P's with 30 D's FF off too
I assume that the min idle depends a lot on the prop ? As there can be large counterforce against the motor rotation during some maneuvers. Also a full or an empty pack could probably make a difference ? and what about the BLHELI Settings for motor timing and start up power?
Here I am learning
15:16 LoL.... JB, searched for hours but I couldn't find "Nydamic" anywhere in the Betaflight CLI.....
Dammit Bardell, you're so smart, you're answering the question about deathrolls that I didn't go online and ask you about this weekend. The same quad, deathrolled twice lately, while descending into the next field (low throttle) where one motor on my (plus) frame was probably at idle. Without even checking, I bet my idle % is too low and you're a mind reading genius!
The way i understood, it had more to do with the throttle percentage being able to go below your normal idle percentage. So dynamic Idle will allow you to go below your normal idle percentage of lets say 5% throttle, in cases where reverse flow conditions are already providing torque on the motor (due to reverse flow on your props). So in your example for people who have high trottle percentages, should their min_rpm values correspond to the RPM they aim at to have a lot of response (which are high). The benefit there as i understand it, would be that the PID loop is allowed to lower throttle to 0% as long as the props keep spinning at the minimum desired speed. What am i missing here?
No no no Completely overwhelmed and caught in the ceiling fan can we try this again. OK I just need to re watch this and then review the FB post then watch it again I guess
Same here.
Hi Joshua, can you please confirm on the updated firmware of DJI's goggles? I want to get goggles after the lockdown (no shipping to SA at the moment), and was almost going for the newest Fatshark's because they display all info on the OSD which is important for me. Now I've read in a comment on another video that DJI brought out a big update that adds all this OSD info to their goggles, which was holding me back from getting them..
Hi if the idle speed it high as to the point its still on the ground when in flight that would make your quad drop alt slower at 0 throtel correct
I think this might have been the cause for my Mobula7 doing the death roll after coming down from a punch. As it's falling from a decent height with the throttle at idle I think the motors were probably stalling.
I need to pay this guy.
Pretty interesting! Thanks, Joshua! 😃
Stay safe there! 🖖😊
Betaflight 4.2.8 my default idle_min_rpm = 0. Been flying like this and it flies great so now im just confused after watching this video. What am i missing? Do you guys still fly with air mode?
Do one on thrust_linear!