PART 2 is now up - th-cam.com/video/hP_23Z_hmR4/w-d-xo.html or check the end panel link. So this is what I have been working on, an exploration of the Origins of Chaos & the Warp. (timestamps and defs below) This is 1 of 3, the second is already in progress. This took me much longer than anticipated because so much research was required across all the different elements. It was originally going to be one video but ended up being long enough for 3 videos. I apologise for my voice - I am still working to heal and recover my vocal cords currently. Thanks to all for your support. *Note* If you have your own opinions, please try to add reference/source if you can. I will discuss any legitimate views, however I cover it fairly extensively in video 3. *Timestamps:* 1:24 Intro 14:57 First is Khorne 24:32 Four Choices 27:06 Time & Causality 1:03:28 Backward Causation 1:11:48 Most Likely Scenario 1:20:51 The Materium & Immaterium *Predestination vs Bootstrap (ontological)* A Predestination Paradox, it’s an event which causes the closed time loop. A Bootstrap/Ontological Paradox is caused by an object or person. *Causal Loop / Causality Loop / Closed Loop / Closed Time Loop* This is simply a term used to explain a paradoxical situation where a time traveller or person is caught in a loop of events that predestines them or their information, actions and owned/acquired objects to travel back in time. It’s predestined meaning they ultimately have no choice over it. The reason it’s called a Causal or Closed Loop is because it will usually if not always violate the Law of Causality, meaning the events actions or objects become self perpetuating making it a closed and theoretically infinite loop. *Predestination Paradox* A predestination paradox, an event in the past creates a chain of events that leads to some second event in the future, but that second event is ultimately the cause of the first event. The key here is that the action in the future only happened because the action in the past happened, but the action in the past was explicitly caused by the action in the future. *Bootstrap Paradox* The ontological paradox is essentially when an object or person is sent back in time, and creates itself, making an endless loop with no discernible origin. This is also known as the bootstraps paradox, because the thing is "pulling itself up" by its own bootstraps. An object (which could be a physical object, or a piece of information) is sent to the past, and the receipt of that object triggers a series of cause/effect, which ultimately leads to a future event whereby the same object is sent back in time. The key here is that the object/information did not come from anywhere. It exists because it always existed.
Do not feel the need to apologize for your voice. It still delivers the message well and is comfortable to listen to, even now. And to echo what others have said, thank you for all your effort. I will enjoy this well!
The most current state of the 40k universe? Im confused on the timeline. Is there such things the latest date of the story line where the story has left of?
Battle Brothers, we must aspire to non-comprehension of this attainted realm of the Archenemy! Truly, this is the magnum opus of some thrice accursed Lord of Chaos... Emperor protect us, for we art doomed! I genuinely appreciate that you break down the (nearly PURELY) abstract logical and philosophical constructs that are inherent to a fictional work such as the Warp/Chaos/Time Travel (etc). The fact that you - personally - either actually comprehend (or seem to) the myriad overarching scientific & philosophical disciplines that this entails is really very impressive. May as well note: I am far from easily impressed, and were I not already subscribed long ago, this along with the Emperor series, would mark you as a titan of the world of WH40K; and I can only name 2 others that have earned such similar praise, Alfabusa and Oculus Imperia. Mind you, y’all are each great in such different ways, I mention others only as a benchmark and in no way to detract or dilute any conveyed praise. You do the Emperor’s work! E: goddammit, meant to post a new comment, not a reply, but... eh. Record is recorded.
There is another thing that will absolutely make you go mad if you think about it a bit, the attractor fields in Steins;Gate (another fantastic timetravel story btw, one if the absolute best IMO). I won't spoil anything here, but suffice to say that learning about the nature of attractor fields and the effect they have in SG, as well as the nature of time and time travel, is one of those moments that can break a feeble mind. Thinking about it more closely is truly harrowing once you realize the implications.
The inevitable space horror of writing: I need a bad thing that cant be defeated, but since everything irl can be defeated even if through ridiculous means i must create the utmost bullshit i can conjure to make this warp and the chaos gods seem invincible. Basically it is like that because they can use the console commands and change things conveniently as they go along so that the story can keep going and keep it in a perpetual moment in time so that its good to keep redoing the story and resale it forever.
@@DavidFernandez-fx7ic my wife showed the slightest of interests and I had to give up explaining why the lore is so interesting because I kept adding addendums! ^^.
I think in Warhammer 40k, time travel is best left for the Orks to use. For example the one Ork who loved his gun so much he traveled back in time to kill himself so he could have 2.
agreed. Let the Ork Toon force have the time travel and do stupid shit with it. I honestly believe it'll wreck the entire lore when Time travel become a norm.
@@progeniesofthetoiletpaperh6433 Mhm, I mean just imagining how completely screwed the lore would get if say the inquisition got their hands on time travel tech.
I think that the FACT that Horus TALKED to a WARP DEMON rather than EXTINGUISH its foul existence outright was the first sign something was horribly HORRIBLY wrong with him. He just wasn't aware of it yet...
It was his colossal arrogance. He really thought he was going to get the upper hand and tell the Gods how things would be. Could've turned out better lol.
Star Wars: We’re going to use good and evil in space magic. Luetin09: We’re going to explore the complexity of time travel and the philosophical existence of the chaos Gods in 40k.
Leutin is the God of reason, change my mind. Also the Dark side isn't necessarily Evil as it is fueled by raw emotions, hate and anger strengthen it but love and joy do to. The Light is far from good too, it is more peace and serenity fuels it, to do that you need to purge distractions and personality which turns people into statues devoid of life
Luetin isn't the god of reason, but he is the god of 40k lore videos. *lightsaber ignites* Both of them are the same. They are two paths dividing in their inception, only to curve and warp and twist around into the same place. Immortality, at the cost of every meaning inlife. Plunderers of innocence. Power with the image of only a faceless yawning starving void. An addiction of agency against the causal outcome. You are always both, they were both, passion and compassion are life. To live, to breath to exhale and inhale, not this doctrine, not that monster, who cannot feel what they should. Both of them. They have lost themselves in isolation, both the ancient sith race of korriban and the je'daii order of typhoon. They were scholars of the force, they lived to learn, and they were a people once, at peace with war itself. It was the infinite empire, that corrupted them both. For all the pain they've truly caused... They cannot suffer enough. One is tempted to shy away from it, as the vong are, an intire existence defined by agony, blinded, only able to bring that which torments them & that alone. It is black fate that has been earned. 'Oh, there really is a limit to the debacity, for the sake of life... (that's a roleplayed starwars opinion that metaphorically aligns with my actual one.)
@@thedarkmaster4747 finally someone realise the old one is main villain and the main source in 40K... The old one is nothing more Same as the allied force in mental omega mod why.. just look at allied final mission in act 2 why The old one goes hamartai because they Naïve, delusion, old and blind ignorance theres no wonder why t'au are somehow Naïve race.. Almost like forerunner (just guest if you are the hardcore fans) from halo, Muad'dib, Leto Atreides(Charismatic) and Vladimir Harkonnen(Vice) from dune, allied force from mental omega mod (dear lord just look at final mission in act 2), and finally Mary sue (an blind Naïve ignorance child) and the anime/manga/eastern culture ( power of friendship nothing more are blind true of ignorance to refuse to see the true world of Individualism and as always right about complexity of reality we live in)
commanderyammarkkasrkin MV I've never heard of an old one in 40k lore. The problem there seemed to be that the universe was broken(materium to immaterium boundary was rapped/perminently violated by slaanesh.). I was talking about the starwars universes main problem. The tau to me are just the inversion of everything that is wrong with the imperium, which isn't any better. Yeah the forunners are quite cool, but they're pretty bad(arrogant to the point of insanity.) however from what i can tell in the lore the precursors were an absolute nightmare. The golden path was the hight of in ethicasy, you're not supposed to play god, even if you have the powers of one. Hence the whole "agony" thing. The baron harkonnen was hardly relevant. I've never played the mental omega mod, dune however is a quazi metaphore for the saudi/american petrodollar monopoly. Try to be more concise in what you're saying. This stuff gets very deep if you start applying the false moral paradigms of slaves verses masters, the bene gesserit verses the guild, ignorance verses psychological trama ect, ect... In starwars, the problem is caused by the actual "bad guys". In dune the problem is caused by "agriculture", although frank herburt didn't know that. In halo, basic ethics would fix alot at any point intime. In anime, which originated in japan, the "low wisdom stats" of the characters are caused by self alienation for the sake of social intergration within the zeitgeist. And the vulgar trope of a marry sue as with the "maAagic" trope is a manifestation of an omnipotence fantasy, the kind of fantasy you have when you are not taking full responsibility for the entirety of your existence. Muad'dib and jesus christ are both "such" characters... It's infantilic at best, and it's also deliberately so - because that's a fast way to gain power. Power which is alurring to an individual who's not taking responsibility for themselves. And inevitably addictive to them after that. Individualism is important, i agree with that, you have to have a sense of sovereignty over yourself.
@@thedarkmaster4747 thats mean i'm fool... Damn... The old one they race downfall is they discover secret of immortal are the main reason their downfall
it's a wonder he hasn't succomed to the power of the warp.... maybe his podcasts are the demons trying to actualise, lol have you met the guy? he could be a demon
Man you have to admire such a well resource video. I'm already a subscriber, but just want to share my appreciation for the work that goes into this. I love lore in general, and there's so much in W40K, but it's always seemed so vast for me. These videos, and your ones before, are informative and genuinely enjoyable.
I scrolled past this like "Oh great another Luetin Video I've seen 10 times, I'll rewatch it later" Then I put my glasses on. This morning is a good morning.
This is why I listen to you. It's the intellectual excercise and Philosophy of our hobby. Oculus is great in his presentation but I come back and listen to you to find the definitive answers to questions I never even had. You continue to amaze me Luetin09. Please never change.
I do like Oculus, but he does focus on some very obscure topics which even for me are a bit too deep into the 40k universe. I did though love his video about the age of strife
And even if I haven't gotten to far into like the board games and figure collecting and painting, just listening to the lore and your take on it has gotten me hooked, and I love it.
"This stuff melts your brain", I think this basically describes any college or higher lever research and learning even in the absence of the dark gods of the warp, so keep those nemesis weapons close at hand
I particularly enjoyed your 15 minute pre-video speech about "If you are going to correct me, then you *better* be correct and have evidence to back it up." That made me smile.
If the immaterium itself has no concept of time, it means that the entities there never existed just as legitimately as they always have. If they ever will win, they already have. If they will ever lose, they already did. I also think about how when humans are fighting within the warp, they still perceive and have a linear concept of what is happening there, and carry those linear memories with them (usually). The only way I can think to reconcile all of that is that our own space has linear time, birthed the chaos gods linearly, but within the warp, it exists as a static field where anything that can happen already has happened. More importantly, if the warp is merely a reflection of what linear beings project onto it, and warp entities are born from our own linear experiences while still existing in a non-linear state, they're limited to incursions into our reality based on our perceptions of it. That is, it's not a matter of the gods being real entities with wills that are fighting against space-time with their own goals, but as topah entities that are manifested and ultimately chained to whatever feelings and actions humans project onto it. If linear time is a river, the warp would be the same amount of water contained within a frozen lake - we float in the river around the lake, until someone breeches out of the river, rolling onto the lake surface; they cannot see the lake's full volume, but can see their own reflection on the ice, which in turn looks back at them with reflected intent. The warp entities there, then, are not real, but they are, because we're the ones creating them and gifting them with an agency that isn't actually real. And so their own actions and drives are merely a reflection of whatever state our linear space is, despite the warp itself being nonlinear. A lot of this seems to hinge on predeterminism, though, and also seems to imply that the warp entities as well have no actual agency beyond being opposing force reactions to the unknowably complex behaviors of the linear time psychic field that manifested them. The obvious contradiction here, to me, seem to be Chaos Space Marines, who are both nonlinear and linear. Or perhaps they are just like their loyalist enemies, and exist in a somewhat linear state on the lake surface, believing themselves to have more power than do, because that's what is reflected back at them. They can only perceive what their minds allow them to perceive. The key always seems to be that the issue isn't time, so much as the nature of what the warp is. All speculative nonsense though.
@@Mrree250 I do recall playing "Dawn of war" and being underwhelmed, as it relied do heavily on online play, instead of a solid single-player campaign, Unfortunately, I'm so busy developing my own game, right now, I haven't had time to play one in months...
Luetin is an awesome guy for taking his time to do this! I hope he's getting crazy huge ad money, The level of effort he puts in definitely deserves it. I make a concentrated effort not to hit skip ad on any of his videos for that very reason.
I remember going down the rabbit hole of 40k on the return to the hobby years ago. My god it is dense. We deal with so much conjecture, speculation, retcons and some eyebrow raising writing... It's amazing to hear someone else so passionate about the philisophical, esoteric side of the lore. Keep it grim. Keep it dark.
@@discomfort5760 HAHAHA I do this too. I listen to his videos on my commutes to work but then I also turn them on before bed to fall asleep to. Its odd but I enjoy it.
When the demon said to Horus "if things keep on going this way", Horus was already gripped by doubt, or in some other way was more susceptible to be manipulated out of the cause he was figting for, and basically the demon manipulated him into staying that course with just the right choice of words, but without lying per se. How clever!
Mate i just have to say; That introduction was incredible. I had your playlist running while asleep, and i woke up to the start of this, with that fantastic music, and that monologue, and i can't explain it, but it was just so uplifting. I haven't felt so refreshed waking up in a long time. Great work.
It's a quote from The Thin Red Line, a very good movie and even better book. You should check them out if you haven't already. There's a lot of really meaningful dialog in it.
I used to just paint cool models and hang out with friends playing 40k, years later I find this, weeks later after that, I'm hooked on the lore. It's crazy amazing and I can only thank you for this. As an adult I have no time to go though all books and work this out. Its truly fantastic that you can make all of this lore edible with such artists Easy and took the time to turn this into this video/channel. Simply amazing 👏 hats off to you.
Dude. this is SO WELL done man seriously i dont know if everyone fully understands the amount of time you spent researching, thinking, writing, recording and editing this. YOU ARE AWESOME! thank you so much for what you do it's nice to escape for awhile, you are appreciated!
I’d say if you applied yourself to any academic field, you would be able to excel. You have went into depth about the nuances of time just for a fictional universe; not to mention the amazing effort in every other video. Love your stuff.
As a scientist this is part of what truly appeals to me with this channel. Everything is done in a very clean, thorough, technically concise yet well-worded way. It's easy to understand, all the right research is behind it yet it maintains a very entertaining and colourful way of describing. I've read many scientific papers that are significantly less well-formulated than these lore videos.
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt Yeah, and as someone who has an actual job to do I have no time to listen to the mad ramblings to someone who actually believes in paranormal shit. Go bother someone else with your ridiculous fantasies please.
@James Sunderland How interesting. I'm interested in astral projection as well, apparently, it isn't as easy as closing your eyes, there is actual practice that is involved in this, candidates are told to lucidly dream, till they perfect this state, they won't be able to astral project. as to why that is, it simply put, is necessarry as if you can't control your conciousness without your body then... goodluck. See, apparently, movements within the astral realm for "projectors" still use their body, if not emotion (wraiths) to move. So, basically, movement and control within the lucid dream not only allows you to control magic and movement within the 4th to 5th dimension, but also child friendly as well! so basically, lucid dreaming is an exetremely good way to practice mental visualization and astral movement, and I know that this is the best method to practice such arts. HOWEVER, I have not heard of this "recruited individuals" and their method of enchancement. As what I was taught, EVERYONE, COULD astral project HOWEVER this has been long lost as the practitioners died out a long time ago. Though, there is a way for one to do it, and thats... a complicated matter. See, conciousness, or, in better terms, a soul is a form of energy, think of it as such. Chemical and Electrical for the human body and the human brain, but, within the astral realm? well, that's a complicated matter. There is an energy that is exetremely unique to emotion, it is an energy in the form of data. One can edit this data and turn it into something they wish to perceive. This is known as magic, depening on one's neural build up within the hypothalamus, one can know one''s affinity. There are other methods but, Sadly they had been long lost. See, for the conciousness, depending on the strength, one can produce emotions during the astral state. And, if one is used enough, can even get energy from the astral realm itself. These people eventually become one with the astral realm if they are not careful enough, or if their practice is too weak. ANYWAYS, I DONT WANAN SOUND LIKE AM ADMAN FOR RANTING AOBUT MAGIC BUT PLEASE TELL ME ABNOUT THE ONE WITH ASTRAL ABILITLS
@@simtexa That's an unbelievable thing to say considering the video you just praised. It really irks me how people like you think you are capable of any level of objectivity.
There are two orderings for the chaos gods: 1. There is the order each awakened to full sentience. 2. The is also the order in which they started to form. The notion that Nurgle started to form first seems plausible. However, even if this is true, it does not mean Nurgle must have awakened first.
I watched this 18 months ago, then decided I would come back when the Dark Origins series was complete. I’m back, and I’m stoked. After I’ve watched any of your videos, they’re on a perpetual playlist at home and work. Good stuff.
40 writers: "Hey, let's have this weird wacky dimension where things get real fucky" "What, like, time and stuff?" "Sure, and we'll leave things super vague and nonsensical so we can just use this to get out of narrative holes when we need to. We don't need to figure out any logic behind it, no one else will after all." Luetin: Hold my beer. Seriously though, your videos are fascinating and this one is no exception. Thank you for the work you put in to them.
Kinda of the reason why I dislike Chaos so much. I guess there in lies its very existence; chaos. I just always found them to be so shoveled in just because 'demons'. I'm sorry 'daemons'. Whatever, the funniest thing is they always seem to be more of an annoyance rather than a real threat unlike the Orks and Tyranids.
In laymans terms; when a car crash happens the police will take eye witness accounts and it's very typical that the 5 people who witnessed it, all give completely different stories based on their perspective, one will say Person A is innocent, and another will say Person B is innocent, and another will say a Person C was involved, even though they weren't. In W40K you're trying to piece together information from multiple races from multiple perspectives, even in the real world it's difficult to get the truth and sometimes impossible, of course though in a fictional story the writers have the ability to provide the facts but in the end this constricts the writers to a specific path and they have less freedom for future lore as W40K becomes linear.
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt Ah so that explains why I couldn't dream for the past 6 years, I thought it was because I kept waking myself up too many times because the dreams were boring and tedious and as such my brain refused to provide me with dreams so it could get proper sleep without me waking myself up. But then again in recent months I've been dreaming again.
This is an excellent indication of why when people discuss the technology of WH 40K they should *never* compare it with real universe science, because much of it simply does not work. My favourite WH 40K army is, and always will be the Tyranids, over the years I have lovingly painted and gamed multiple armies of nids, currently running one purely tooth and claw army, and one a more balanced combination of melee and range. For those wondering, the latter usually wins more games, but the former is just more fun! Despite that however I am well aware of the impossibility of the Tyranids from a Biological perspective. Why? I have spent a career spanning decades as a Marine and Evolutionary Ecologist (yes, the latter does exist). As living organisms the vast majority of Tyranid bioforms are simply unsustainable or impossible. This is not just a casual observation, or something that can be waved away by the explanation 'well 40,000 years can change a lot'. 40,000 years does not, and cannot change the Square Cube Law. Those years cannot suddenly render the various biomechanical laws that underpin the maximum possible sizes of varios living organisms suddenly irrelevant (many of which are heavily influenced by the Square Cube Law). 40,000 years cannot render an organism suddenly able to maintain a fast metabolism (which explosively fast and powerful 'predatory' organisms like Tyranids WILL have) without having a digestive tract, something that lore states many Tyranid Bioforms do not have, and which I regard as flat out impossible, especially for those forms that use weapons with living ammunition. How are they going to reload if they cannot ingest food to replace their ammunition? 40,000 years cannot suddenly solve the issue of protein chirality, 40,000 years cannot solve the issue of how a 'species' is able to use genetic code that may well be wildly different to their own. And so on. Protein Chirality is an interesting one here, Proteins, which is what DNA codes for, come in two major forms for each protein, left or right handed. This, in essence, is Protein Chirality, does the organism use left or right handed proteins? This is where it gets interesting, on Earth, the Chirality is for right handed proteins, however, there is NOTHING to say that this cannot be mirrored on another planet, and instead of being right handed, the chirality on this hypothetical other planet is for left handed forms. Should the two meet, then foods that are non toxic from each planet still cannot be digested by organisms from the other planet, because the enzymes will not 'latch'. Does this mean Tyranids are not homochiral? Certainly possible, but if that is the case then their genetic code is absolutely MONSTROUS, because they have to code for BOTH forms of EVERY protein they use. All this is before you even start looking at the various switches and other little surprises hiding in what many people even today still refer to as 'junk' DNA. If nids are Bichiral (I made that term up) then they are wasting vast amounts of effort generating doubles of every protein they need, but they almost HAVE to be if you take the Lore at face value because it states they are able to use Genetic Code from any living organism they come across. As there is no *reason* why Earth is right handed other than sheer random chance, then you can garuantee there are left handed chiral worlds out there. Just looking at the nids alone I could come up with a list of impossibilities that are, to be frank, staggering. This however is hardly surprising, the Tyranids were created and developed by Games Deveolpers and Creators with at best a limited understanding of Biology, just as they have a limited understanding of Engineering, Physics, Chemistry etc. They are, rightly, more interested in making a Game Universe that is fun, cool and interesting, NOT one that can be explained by, or compared to real world science. In that they have succeeded admirably, WH 40K with all it's batshit insanity has held me in its grip since First Edition, and I very much doubt it will ever let me go, we can still love the game, even if things are an impossibility, but we should never make the mistake of trying to compare WH 40K with real science, because as this vid so clearly demonstrated, once you start looking even a little beyond the surface, it all starts falling apart.
So what you're saying is: we don't have to worry about Tyranids? Thank the Emperor! Now we can traverse hell in flying Cathedrals, wearing nuclear-powered armour that weighs the same as a school bus and wielding semi-automatic grenade launchers in the name of an immortal magic vegetable safe in the knowledge that we have nothing to fear from dinosaur-bugs from another galaxy. I will sleep much better at night now that you've reassured me.
@@kingkong381 God I love it when 40k is described useing descriptors rather than the actual names. One of my favorites was Mandalore's description of it in his firewarrior review.
its so cool how much thought you've put into this,as if you've felt the need to raise your suspension of disbelief. I spend hours watching crap (well any horror) looking for something that'll scare me and get over my reason. Absolute evil, IE the omen, BS, no such thing as absolute anything, practiced buddhism for 20 years, everthing that's conditioned hence has rupa (is material) and must be relatively true by its nature. Alien, and aiens used to terrify me, until I pretty much followed your line of reasoning. the next generation of writers will hopefully add a whole new dimension to the genre. you should give it a go yourself
Luetin, I've said this before and I will say it again, You have by far the best 40k Lore videos on the tube. Im new to 40k but Ive found myself in awe of the history and lore, and the depths you explore. Keep up the great work!! Im so glad I stumbled upon your videos!
Dude this video’s sheer scale and the clarity with which you tackle some of the subjects is mind blowing. And this is only part one? Damn! Good job, and thank you!
I don’t think you should bother justifying what you say to preempt haters and douchebags. The silent majority love and appreciate your work and trust in your commitment to producing ace content.
i just finish your sharing. I must say . i cannot imagine how much time and effort you've been spending on making such solid material. this helps me understanding so much more about warhammer . thank you so much for your effort. respect x 99
Me: Man, I'm beat after that twelve hour shift. Leutin: *posts* Me: ...So, that's a thing. *watches* Also, you know, keep up the amazing work! Your content is some of the best 40K content on the web, no lie.
I love the part about source bias, and that you did such a good job of explaining it and how awkward it is. One of the things I enjoy about 40k is how muddy the lore can be, as it reflects our own history: that more is being uncovered and discovered, but we've had to piece things together from biased texts (eg biographies on Roman Emperors written hundreds of years later, or descriptions of peoples the Romans fought written by the victor and intentionally skewed).
Well sourced physics in a 40k lore video--truly one of the best hobby channels, and a welcome source of thoughtful diversion in challenging times. Bravo!
Been over a year and still one of my favorite videos to listen to. Luetin, thank you for all you do to take my mind off this epidemic of "the virus" .. listening to chaos makes me hopeful for a great future.
Was wondering when a video is gonna come cuz I literally finished all of your 40k videos in the past week as a newcomer to the universe. You're awesome Luetin!
That's a small detail I never got. Why is it called recaf? That implies that they decaffeinate it but then later somehow *recaffeinate* it. Do they _actually_ do that? If so, *WHY!?*
@@ColeBlueford It, like many other things in 40k, is kind of varied as to its source. It comes from dried crushed leaves, but it's different depending upon which part of the Imperium, I don't know about it being decaffeinated and then recaffeinated, so much as they may add additional caffeine for a stimulant effect to an already present supply? I'm not a member of the Munitorum, otherwise I might know a little more, but since coffee beans are either long extinct, or have suffered some other grimdark fate, is beyond the scope of my knowledge.
I love the intense intellectual effort put into the concept of Time and two parallel planes of existing side by side that effect one another where Time exists in one but not the other, but at the end of the day, the only thing you can chalk it up to is poor understanding on the part of GW staff who write out the bulk of the Verse story. In that way its not all that dissimilar from religion in the real world. Now there is Shell Theory as I’ve heard it described where Time isn’t a 4th dimension, per se, but is in fact a gate way to parallel physical Verses in general. It still breaks down if one applies omniscience to a god, but I don’t recall 40k ever positing that the Ruinous Powers are limitless at all
Great vid, I always got round that issue with the precept of time being relative from the prospective of the viewer. For the Chaos gods, incapable of understanding corporeal time, means that when Slaanesh was born, it expanded out to fill the warp's expanse in every sense of the word. It being a realm of time, but not bound to linear time of the material universe. From the 3 dimensions of the Eldar, Slaanesh doesn't exist and them comes into being, but for those in the warp, in 4 dimensions and thus existing in all times as the warp does, Slaanesh, appears and stretches out and back as well filling up their present, but only existing in their non linear perspective and not reaching back in our material point of view. Simply put, if the warp is without any time, then anything within it must be by definition have always been present, it is the interactions with the extra dimension, being time in which you create cause and effect, from the perspective of those both within and without. Thanks Luetin, lots to think about.
I’ve always thought of it as our timeline, a straight line, cuts through the warp’s timeline, which is outward-spiraling (and possibly rotating)…at least that’s just how I avoid giving myself a headache for my fanfiction 😉
I just stumbled across your content after getting back into warhammer and I am loving it. The depth and referencing you go to is amazing and I can’t stop watching your vids. Thanks so much keep it up!
That artwork with Rogal Dorn and others standing on a balcony with the massive golden lions behind them (41:53); does anyone know what planet that is supposed to be, if any?
I don't often feel compelled to weigh in on videos but I love this stuff. If time does not exist in the warp how can a sub sentient entity in the warp have perception of an event occurring in the future when the concept of events occurring one after the other simply does not exist? I can't speak to the official lore but my head canon goes like this: The chaos gods are created from events in the material world. This binds them to our world which limits their power. Chaos gods may be powerful beings that aren't restricted by time and space but to influence the past runs the risk of preventing their origin which I kind of visualise as a physical tether that ties the Chaos gods to their very existence. Should the tether be cut they will have never existed. A simple illustration would be that Slaanesh doesn't eat soles from before his birth because that would almost certainly guarantee he would never exist, breaking the tether. This is of course a paradox and this is the part where we might consider that if there are no laws of time in the warp what rules could there be to govern it? Perhaps it isn't so much that Slaanesh chooses not to but physically cannot due to the nature of reality in the warp. What if traversing the barrier between the immaterium and the materium is like navigating a complex web of cause and effect, trying to find a viable path. (I won't go into the fact that the idea of 'trying' makes no sense without time in that all moves by such an entity are all occurring simultaneously and eternally.) The obvious counter point: Wouldn't it mean that all points in time after the event that created the Chaos god be open season? Anything goes with no consequences? Possibly not. There are other warp entities, now I'm not well versed enough in the lore to know if all warp entities are spawn of the Chaos gods but assuming that they are not and instead other entities are created from events in the material world the implications get interesting assuming these entities can influence the material world. If the chain of events that lead to the creation of a Chaos god was influenced by another entity somewhere down the line, then that means said god would not be able to take action that compromises their unique tether. Considering that even the comparably straight forward materium is still complex to a mind boggling degree it would be fair speculation that a staggering number of events leading to the birth of a Chaos god would be influenced by unseen warp entities that would all place limitation on the Chaos god especially considering that these entities may be tethered to future points in time from the Chaos god's tether. But what if a tether could be broken? Well causality would be entirely rewritten in an instant and we would not notice. Such an event would send a 'ripple' through the warp as billions of entities are both born and winked out of existence and because they were never born the actions they took never occurred and as such reality is instantly totally different. Why don't we see this? aside from it being a complete bullshit move from a narrative perspective? Like the ultimate it was all just a dream twist? Well I could explain it but I don't think anyone cares. This post is massive. If you want to know just ask. (seriously I'll explain if you ask I don't need 20 likes or some bullshit.) Bottom line is my explanation is all just speculation and really the point of the video was a discussion based on what the rules are in an official capacity even if that doesn't completely make sense. I really enjoyed it.
@@theminecraftkids28 To begin with we need to throw out quantum theory. I mean you could theoretically integrate quantum theory into the 40k universe as long as you were only applying the science at the conceptual level with a tweak to one of the fundamental concepts. That fundamental concept being that of true randomness. The way I see it, you can't have an eternal universe if true random exists. It will make more sense as I go through this. So how does an eternal universe factor into the point of this post? The point for those just joining us is to explain how massive causality breaking events in the warp can actually be theoretically possible. Read the post above for the background. Leutin pointed out that in order for the time loops in 40k to make sense the universe must be eternal which implies that the entire universe including every point in time is created all at once. Non warp mortal beings then experience this universe moment by moment as time passes. Leutin touched on the implications of free will in such a universe but allow me to offer an altered perspective. Imagine a ball resting on a table, the table isn't particularly well constructed so one of the legs is slightly shorter. Slowly the ball starts rolling to the corner of the table, gradually picking up speed. It's a simple physics analogy that demonstrates that as an observer you'd be able to predict that the ball will fall. Going further you'd be able to surmise what the ball would do before it was placed on the table if you had knowledge of the table's flaw ahead of time. So now assuming that true random doesn't exist wouldn't it follow that the entire universe including it's timeline could be determined by the nature of it's origin? Applying this logic it becomes clear what the choices of sentient beings are; they are the simply the latest action in a chain reaction stretching back to the start of the universe. What do I mean by the "nature of the universe's origin"? I am talking about two things, first the big bang which I see as an unalterable epoch where the both the material universe and the immaterium were created together. The other being the configuration of the warp entities. Now with such entities how can all of causality be determined in this way? The answer is because they're not restricted by time. Think back to my last post, because there is no such thing as a sequence of events for a warp entity all actions taken are happening simultaneously and eternally. The influence of warp entities is effectively part of the fundamental structure of the universe. This brings us neatly to the point I was alluding to in the previous post. What happens if the actions of one warp entity destroys the tether of another? Well if you've been able to follow what I've been explaining then it should be clear to you. Such an "event" if you want to call it that doesn't occur like a dramatic cataclysm destroying everything. Such an event annihilates the timeline itself and because entities in the 40k universe perceive time it means they will continue to perceive time until time no longer exists (if such a thing is possible). To paint the picture of what I mean in the form of a story imagine this. First the universe is born and then immediately billions of warp entities begin struggling against one another. They fight across time and space trying to destroy other entities while also trying to shield themselves from the "ripple" the death of other warp entities create. Each time a warp entity of sufficient influence is destroyed an entire timeline blinks out of existence and a new one emerges in it's place. Of course this can't continue eternally. Powerful entities whose births are owed to powerful but common conditions manage to create sufficient defences around their own tethers. Other entities who fight on or simply cannot escape are eventually destroyed and the immaterium reaches a stalemate. In this state of relative calm a universe is allowed to exist. When thought of like this I wonder if the Chaos Gods even realise that a stable timeline has been created. So are the Chaos Gods and other warp entities just stuck now? It seems that way. Their moves are made at the creation of a timeline and as the current timeline is in progress there just isn't anything more they can do.
A bit late, but no, not all warp entities are Chaos spawned, nor alligned with Chaos persé.( "Enslavers" for example ) But, well thought and brought mate.
@@AndyDurandal for a physicists perspective I'd refer you to my comment, TL;DR imagine the materium as a plane, one dimension space the other time and the warp as a parallel plane crumple both where the planes are closer the 2 realms interact more closely. With regards to the separating of the materium from the immaterium early perhaps the both join up as one plane early in time like a wish bone shape.
preach. I tried to play dow while listening to this, and now my armies lie in an ocean of their own blood 'cause I couldn't pay attention to the game :D
I usually listen to these videos while training in Rocket League. You know, something simple, audially pleasing, with no need to pay close attention to cuz other than these vids I have no connection or interaction with the 40K universe. But man, was this an effort to listen to, my bran has almos shut down from all that load. Excellent work man.
I'm incredibly indecisive if I should watch this now and suffer later, or watch this later and suffer now. Either way I'll also be rewarded with pleasure, I am sure - but Slaneesh is certainly grateful for the whole ordeal regardless.
Wow, your academic elocuence and professionalism reminds me of my favourite teacher i had at the university while studying history. You practically wrote an investigative thesis in 3 weeks for this, that's quite an achievement!
Bruh. Eloquence is the word; and not even a really good one to use here. Eloquence wouldnt be "academic" either; his speaking would be eloquent and well studied; the subject would be academic. There is no such thing as an "investigative thesis". Youd make an investigative essay to defend said thesis. Theres nothing thesis about this video. Its functionally recounting events in a psuedo journalistic/historian manner. Just say "well done"; you look like an absolute moron misusing all these words you clearly dont understand lol
@@CharlesUrban why do you think he is so much complicated, because he tangled himself in madness, for me tzzentch is the chaos god who incarnated mostly opf what is the warp.
It's possible the Horus Pre-Destination Paradox isn't a paradox after all 38:29 - 43:05 for context. To be clear I'm new to the lore and could be missing an important detail regarding the Horus' demonic vision, but I find this idea which came to me intriguing and I'd love to hear what you guys think. Could it be that the vision of a religion-gripped imperium which the demon showed Horus wasn't "the real future" created by Horus, but an accurate prediction of what was to come if Horus were to be tricked (which he successfully was). Accepting this interpretation of the demon's vision means Horus wasn't caused to betray the emperor by himself but by the demon (who himself isn't breaking any causality rules and therefore there's no causality loop). I don't fully understand why/if this works (and what exactly the distinction is between "real future" and prediction) but it does seem to evade the time-loop pre-destination paradox the canon seems to create.
I knew almost nothing about Warhammer before watching your videos. Now here I am binge watching these like a fan boy. You do some seriously amazing work, so thank you for all the effort you put into this.
Thank you for the explanation at the beginning. As an author myself, who has also created magical worlds, I sometimes got a little doubtful when you'd state 'this is never officially confirmed' or 'this is never officially made clear' in other videos (I've been watching your 40k Lore/History playlist in order, so I've seen about 30 videos by this point). Because the reason some things are never made clear has always been obvious to me, because GW doesn't want some avenues of future stories cut off, they want to keep things as open as possible for their own official creators and also for fans to play with themselves. I love listening to your videos because you've got a great and clear voice and I love how you make these videos into basically history channel documentaries for 40K lore, and it's taught me a lot about how GW have created different aspects of their lore over time, but it has also made really clear the constraints both GW writers and even people like you have to work in because the lore has to stay flexible enough for GW to support their 40k for... well potentially millennia ;)
@@PuddingXXL I think it means we don't understand its essential nature. We can explain how it works, but not why. Modern science can't answer and isn't interested in answering why questions. And that's a good thing! It keeps to what it can explain without essentializing
@@jamesbaurus5928 I call BS. Firstly, science cares a lot about "why", and secondly electromagnetism is the only fully understood law of nature right now. Understanding of electromagnetism is one of the greatest example of why science is a useful tool.
@@aidenmurphy9924 Why is mass energy equivalence related to the speed of light. Why is the value of a constant that particular value and no other value. Science doesn't answer this stuff.
@@CountingStars333 Funny that you can find out the answer just with a quick google of that exact question. The answer is that energy, in the form of radiation or light, propagates at that speed. When an atom is split in a nuclear reaction, the energy is released at the speed of light.
This channel is what got me into 40k.. I have watched nearly every single one of your videos, other peoples videos and plan on visiting my local warhammer shop in town and seeing whats available
So i think my dad actually said something interesting. For an infinite being who experienced a conception they existed beforehand as a thought always existing but incapable of acting. The event of conception can only occur within the realm of time, hence imortal beings are still tied to the laws of time in some fashion. When the event of conception is introduced said sentient being can act. For a chaos god they have always existed as a concept they feed on their own concept blood for the blood god yadayada. In 40k these “concepts” escalated into a form called chaos gods, and although non linear creatures they are bound by the absolute linear event that caused them taking form. They would never mess with that timeline because it could inadvertently kill them. And although they might be able to observe the timeline and perhaps even “fate” they are shackled by it. Fueling their rage of incapablity even with their absolute power the only way for them to change fate is by seductive means on mortals getting them to summon them into time. the idea of “concept” is what feeds them, they need it they would always use the most efficient method of obtaining that and their chosen method had always been seduction and summoning
Creating a series of well produced and edited 40K lore videos is already excellent. But attempting to explain how the Warp works, even explain the physics behind it... Now, you've CLEARLY outdone yourself this time, Leutin09.
![40K DARK ORIGINS [2] War in Heaven & Aeldari Mythology | WARHAMMER 40,000 history/lore](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hP_23Z_hmR4/mqdefault.jpg)
![40K DARK ORIGINS [2] War in Heaven & Aeldari Mythology | WARHAMMER 40,000 history/lore](/img/tr.png)
![40K - THE INQUISITION OF MANKIND [1] Part One | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/History](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-W2VGNAIs3A/mqdefault.jpg)
PART 2 is now up - th-cam.com/video/hP_23Z_hmR4/w-d-xo.html or check the end panel link.
So this is what I have been working on, an exploration of the Origins of Chaos & the Warp. (timestamps and defs below) This is 1 of 3, the second is already in progress. This took me much longer than anticipated because so much research was required across all the different elements. It was originally going to be one video but ended up being long enough for 3 videos. I apologise for my voice - I am still working to heal and recover my vocal cords currently. Thanks to all for your support. *Note* If you have your own opinions, please try to add reference/source if you can. I will discuss any legitimate views, however I cover it fairly extensively in video 3.
*Timestamps:*
1:24 Intro
14:57 First is Khorne
24:32 Four Choices
27:06 Time & Causality
1:03:28 Backward Causation
1:11:48 Most Likely Scenario
1:20:51 The Materium & Immaterium
*Predestination vs Bootstrap (ontological)*
A Predestination Paradox, it’s an event which causes the closed time loop. A Bootstrap/Ontological Paradox is caused by an object or person.
*Causal Loop / Causality Loop / Closed Loop / Closed Time Loop*
This is simply a term used to explain a paradoxical situation where a time traveller or person is caught in a loop of events that predestines them or their information, actions and owned/acquired objects to travel back in time. It’s predestined meaning they ultimately have no choice over it. The reason it’s called a Causal or Closed Loop is because it will usually if not always violate the Law of Causality, meaning the events actions or objects become self perpetuating making it a closed and theoretically infinite loop.
*Predestination Paradox*
A predestination paradox, an event in the past creates a chain of events that leads to some second event in the future, but that second event is ultimately the cause of the first event. The key here is that the action in the future only happened because the action in the past happened, but the action in the past was explicitly caused by the action in the future.
*Bootstrap Paradox*
The ontological paradox is essentially when an object or person is sent back in time, and creates itself, making an endless loop with no discernible origin. This is also known as the bootstraps paradox, because the thing is "pulling itself up" by its own bootstraps. An object (which could be a physical object, or a piece of information) is sent to the past, and the receipt of that object triggers a series of cause/effect, which ultimately leads to a future event whereby the same object is sent back in time. The key here is that the object/information did not come from anywhere. It exists because it always existed.
You might be insane. Thank you for your sacrifice.
Can i just thank you for all the effort you put into your vids
Do not feel the need to apologize for your voice. It still delivers the message well and is comfortable to listen to, even now.
And to echo what others have said, thank you for all your effort. I will enjoy this well!
The most current state of the 40k universe? Im confused on the timeline. Is there such things the latest date of the story line where the story has left of?
no fishing for sympathy here, but it was a big struggle to record this. I am seeing a voice specialist and working to heal my Vocal Cords.
Luetin: Trying to understand the warp inevitably drives you to madness
Also Luetin: Tries to understand the warp.
Ummdustry classic luetin
Yeeeahsssszzzz...zz...z... 🌌😈😵
Battle Brothers, we must aspire to non-comprehension of this attainted realm of the Archenemy! Truly, this is the magnum opus of some thrice accursed Lord of Chaos... Emperor protect us, for we art doomed!
I genuinely appreciate that you break down the (nearly PURELY) abstract logical and philosophical constructs that are inherent to a fictional work such as the Warp/Chaos/Time Travel (etc). The fact that you - personally - either actually comprehend (or seem to) the myriad overarching scientific & philosophical disciplines that this entails is really very impressive. May as well note: I am far from easily impressed, and were I not already subscribed long ago, this along with the Emperor series, would mark you as a titan of the world of WH40K; and I can only name 2 others that have earned such similar praise, Alfabusa and Oculus Imperia. Mind you, y’all are each great in such different ways, I mention others only as a benchmark and in no way to detract or dilute any conveyed praise. You do the Emperor’s work!
E: goddammit, meant to post a new comment, not a reply, but... eh. Record is recorded.
There is another thing that will absolutely make you go mad if you think about it a bit, the attractor fields in Steins;Gate (another fantastic timetravel story btw, one if the absolute best IMO).
I won't spoil anything here, but suffice to say that learning about the nature of attractor fields and the effect they have in SG, as well as the nature of time and time travel, is one of those moments that can break a feeble mind. Thinking about it more closely is truly harrowing once you realize the implications.
The inevitable space horror of writing: I need a bad thing that cant be defeated, but since everything irl can be defeated even if through ridiculous means i must create the utmost bullshit i can conjure to make this warp and the chaos gods seem invincible. Basically it is like that because they can use the console commands and change things conveniently as they go along so that the story can keep going and keep it in a perpetual moment in time so that its good to keep redoing the story and resale it forever.
*on a video about the backstory on a boardgame with tiny plastic toys*
"So if you open your theoretical physics book to page 489..."
I love how every now and again he remembers hes supposed to be talking about 40k
Luetin: they don't pass the logic test, Luetin Warhammer Doesn't pass the logic test
But isnt that one reason why we love 40k
yep
Turn to page 394
This channel single handedly got me into 40K. I rewatch this all the time.
Same here! :p
Same dude. Love this shit. Everyone's super fkn tired of listening to me talk about it though.
@@DavidFernandez-fx7ic my wife showed the slightest of interests and I had to give up explaining why the lore is so interesting because I kept adding addendums! ^^.
Facts
I'm seriously considering getting back too it because of these 🤔 ... been almost 20 years but still have all my stuff! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Yes, Inquisitor, this video here :)
Your Emperor is a False God
@@Luetin09 LISTEN HERE YOU LITTLE SH...
@@ChapterMasterValrak Let 'im live, u can beat 'im again later ^^
@@ChapterMasterValrak watch out or he'll send a acid half flyman to hug you!
@@Luetin09 Not after the apotheosis he won't be...
I think in Warhammer 40k, time travel is best left for the Orks to use. For example the one Ork who loved his gun so much he traveled back in time to kill himself so he could have 2.
modern problems require modern solutions
agreed. Let the Ork Toon force have the time travel and do stupid shit with it. I honestly believe it'll wreck the entire lore when Time travel become a norm.
Let marvel be a lesson to all...
@@progeniesofthetoiletpaperh6433 Mhm, I mean just imagining how completely screwed the lore would get if say the inquisition got their hands on time travel tech.
Lmfao orks are the best.
"Astartes" might have hooked me, but it was Luetin who reeled me into 40k again. This was nothing short of amazing.
I agree. If it wasn't for Luetin, I would be lost. I love how in depth he goes into but makes it easy for us noobs to understand. ❤
Luetin09 surrounded by string on corkboard, some physics books, religious tomes, pointing to a 3rd ed chaos codex "I am not crazy!"
Ben Siener that’s is true, he did very specifically deny this without being prompted at all... wait a sec
Luetin09: Chaos! Chaos!
@@ImmaDBZvillan Best comment
This is what happens when you attempt to use real world physics in a realm that, being psychic based, basically runs on dream rules.
“Coincidence?! I think NOT!”
Me: Holy shit, this whole metaphysical discussion was a lot to take in.
Luetin: Tune in for parts two and three.
*Heavy Breathing Intensifies*
I think that the FACT that Horus TALKED to a WARP DEMON rather than EXTINGUISH its foul existence outright was the first sign something was horribly HORRIBLY wrong with him.
He just wasn't aware of it yet...
It was his colossal arrogance. He really thought he was going to get the upper hand and tell the Gods how things would be. Could've turned out better lol.
@@Bloodletter8that’s what happens when you’re parents tell you you’re better than pretty much everyone else especially a parent with godlike standing
Star Wars: We’re going to use good and evil in space magic.
Luetin09: We’re going to explore the complexity of time travel and the philosophical existence of the chaos Gods in 40k.
Leutin is the God of reason, change my mind. Also the Dark side isn't necessarily Evil as it is fueled by raw emotions, hate and anger strengthen it but love and joy do to. The Light is far from good too, it is more peace and serenity fuels it, to do that you need to purge distractions and personality which turns people into statues devoid of life
Luetin isn't the god of reason, but he is the god of 40k lore videos. *lightsaber ignites* Both of them are the same. They are two paths dividing in their inception, only to curve and warp and twist around into the same place. Immortality, at the cost of every meaning inlife. Plunderers of innocence. Power with the image of only a faceless yawning starving void. An addiction of agency against the causal outcome. You are always both, they were both, passion and compassion are life. To live, to breath to exhale and inhale, not this doctrine, not that monster, who cannot feel what they should. Both of them. They have lost themselves in isolation, both the ancient sith race of korriban and the je'daii order of typhoon. They were scholars of the force, they lived to learn, and they were a people once, at peace with war itself. It was the infinite empire, that corrupted them both. For all the pain they've truly caused... They cannot suffer enough. One is tempted to shy away from it, as the vong are, an intire existence defined by agony, blinded, only able to bring that which torments them & that alone. It is black fate that has been earned. 'Oh, there really is a limit to the debacity, for the sake of life... (that's a roleplayed starwars opinion that metaphorically aligns with my actual one.)
@@thedarkmaster4747 finally someone realise the old one is main villain and the main source in 40K...
The old one is nothing more Same as the allied force in mental omega mod why.. just look at allied final mission in act 2 why
The old one goes hamartai because they Naïve, delusion, old and blind ignorance theres no wonder why t'au are somehow Naïve race..
Almost like forerunner (just guest if you are the hardcore fans) from halo, Muad'dib, Leto Atreides(Charismatic) and Vladimir Harkonnen(Vice) from dune, allied force from mental omega mod (dear lord just look at final mission in act 2), and finally Mary sue (an blind Naïve ignorance child) and the anime/manga/eastern culture ( power of friendship nothing more are blind true of ignorance to refuse to see the true world of Individualism and as always right about complexity of reality we live in)
commanderyammarkkasrkin MV I've never heard of an old one in 40k lore. The problem there seemed to be that the universe was broken(materium to immaterium boundary was rapped/perminently violated by slaanesh.). I was talking about the starwars universes main problem. The tau to me are just the inversion of everything that is wrong with the imperium, which isn't any better. Yeah the forunners are quite cool, but they're pretty bad(arrogant to the point of insanity.) however from what i can tell in the lore the precursors were an absolute nightmare. The golden path was the hight of in ethicasy, you're not supposed to play god, even if you have the powers of one. Hence the whole "agony" thing. The baron harkonnen was hardly relevant. I've never played the mental omega mod, dune however is a quazi metaphore for the saudi/american petrodollar monopoly. Try to be more concise in what you're saying. This stuff gets very deep if you start applying the false moral paradigms of slaves verses masters, the bene gesserit verses the guild, ignorance verses psychological trama ect, ect... In starwars, the problem is caused by the actual "bad guys". In dune the problem is caused by "agriculture", although frank herburt didn't know that. In halo, basic ethics would fix alot at any point intime. In anime, which originated in japan, the "low wisdom stats" of the characters are caused by self alienation for the sake of social intergration within the zeitgeist. And the vulgar trope of a marry sue as with the "maAagic" trope is a manifestation of an omnipotence fantasy, the kind of fantasy you have when you are not taking full responsibility for the entirety of your existence. Muad'dib and jesus christ are both "such" characters... It's infantilic at best, and it's also deliberately so - because that's a fast way to gain power. Power which is alurring to an individual who's not taking responsibility for themselves. And inevitably addictive to them after that. Individualism is important, i agree with that, you have to have a sense of sovereignty over yourself.
@@thedarkmaster4747 thats mean i'm fool... Damn... The old one they race downfall is they discover secret of immortal are the main reason their downfall
Only Luetin would dare to brave the madness of 40k lore timeline disruptions and seek to understand *The* *Warp*
it's a wonder he hasn't succomed to the power of the warp....
maybe his podcasts are the demons trying to actualise, lol
have you met the guy? he could be a demon
The Emperor Protects
Sounds like he’s trying to gain the favor of Tzeentch.
@@eldraque4556 podcasts?
@@snakeyman5560 his podcasts could be the work of demons
What I love most about Luetins content, is that you know it's made out of love for the WH40K universe, and it shows, bravo sir.
An hour and 30 minutes of Chaos lore?
Oh boi, better lock up the doors and windows in case of a surprise visit from a certain organization.
Misericordia I’m already on my way
@@fabricatorgeneralcaz534
Oh hey there Lord Inquisitor.....
....
LOOK!
There is a bigger heresy on that sector!
He's part of Ordos Mallius. So he's clear.
Nobody expects the Ordo Hereticus!
@@paxvesania2008 Stay where you are heretic. The inquisition is coming for you
Man you have to admire such a well resource video. I'm already a subscriber, but just want to share my appreciation for the work that goes into this. I love lore in general, and there's so much in W40K, but it's always seemed so vast for me. These videos, and your ones before, are informative and genuinely enjoyable.
Liam Halliday well said brother!! Got to admire such in depth research
Greatest literature and universe every created
33:48- You know something’s utter nonsense when Luetin whips out a weighty Schtewpid.
I scrolled past this like "Oh great another Luetin Video I've seen 10 times, I'll rewatch it later"
Then I put my glasses on. This morning is a good morning.
lmao same here :)
Put your gwasses on, nothing will be wong.
This is why I listen to you. It's the intellectual excercise and Philosophy of our hobby. Oculus is great in his presentation but I come back and listen to you to find the definitive answers to questions I never even had. You continue to amaze me Luetin09. Please never change.
I do like Oculus, but he does focus on some very obscure topics which even for me are a bit too deep into the 40k universe. I did though love his video about the age of strife
Honestly I have just began to get into 40k with some of the newer games like deathwing, and I liked the bits of lore, which led me to your channel.
And even if I haven't gotten to far into like the board games and figure collecting and painting, just listening to the lore and your take on it has gotten me hooked, and I love it.
Oculus is 2nd to Luetin imo
"This stuff melts your brain", I think this basically describes any college or higher lever research and learning even in the absence of the dark gods of the warp, so keep those nemesis weapons close at hand
Now the acid fly god is a chaos god i can get behind ) Great video as always
You win a free hug
acid fly deamon of nurgle should be a thing
Yea, Acid Fly sounds like it would be a good champion of Nurgle or something, haha ;)
Legendary Bloatfly!!!!
HUG MELT TO DEATH
I think i read somewhere that Luetin09 is the best warhammer tuber
Now _that's_ what I call an Imperial Truth!
*BUt CaN yOu NaME a SouRce ?*
That's just common sense. Only heretics disagree with that fact
Yep.
PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
I particularly enjoyed your 15 minute pre-video speech about "If you are going to correct me, then you *better* be correct and have evidence to back it up."
That made me smile.
If the immaterium itself has no concept of time, it means that the entities there never existed just as legitimately as they always have. If they ever will win, they already have. If they will ever lose, they already did. I also think about how when humans are fighting within the warp, they still perceive and have a linear concept of what is happening there, and carry those linear memories with them (usually). The only way I can think to reconcile all of that is that our own space has linear time, birthed the chaos gods linearly, but within the warp, it exists as a static field where anything that can happen already has happened. More importantly, if the warp is merely a reflection of what linear beings project onto it, and warp entities are born from our own linear experiences while still existing in a non-linear state, they're limited to incursions into our reality based on our perceptions of it.
That is, it's not a matter of the gods being real entities with wills that are fighting against space-time with their own goals, but as topah entities that are manifested and ultimately chained to whatever feelings and actions humans project onto it. If linear time is a river, the warp would be the same amount of water contained within a frozen lake - we float in the river around the lake, until someone breeches out of the river, rolling onto the lake surface; they cannot see the lake's full volume, but can see their own reflection on the ice, which in turn looks back at them with reflected intent. The warp entities there, then, are not real, but they are, because we're the ones creating them and gifting them with an agency that isn't actually real. And so their own actions and drives are merely a reflection of whatever state our linear space is, despite the warp itself being nonlinear. A lot of this seems to hinge on predeterminism, though, and also seems to imply that the warp entities as well have no actual agency beyond being opposing force reactions to the unknowably complex behaviors of the linear time psychic field that manifested them. The obvious contradiction here, to me, seem to be Chaos Space Marines, who are both nonlinear and linear. Or perhaps they are just like their loyalist enemies, and exist in a somewhat linear state on the lake surface, believing themselves to have more power than do, because that's what is reflected back at them. They can only perceive what their minds allow them to perceive.
The key always seems to be that the issue isn't time, so much as the nature of what the warp is. All speculative nonsense though.
Whoops, I paused and wrote that literally seconds before your own explanation.
hah! good explanation though
The imperial navy vessels travel the warp in a special bubble that protects them, thats why the perveive time normally while in the bubble.
Love your animations.
Plague, is that you? What are you doing here, I remember you back from the days when you did stuff for Matt and pat, those were the days
I don't play warhammer, but I love the lore, and each video that you produce is a treasure. Keep up the good work!
You should try some of the videogames. Old but gold, I recommend Warhammer: space Marine if you want to try a Gears of War esque shooter.
@@Mrree250 I do recall playing "Dawn of war" and being underwhelmed, as it relied do heavily on online play, instead of a solid single-player campaign, Unfortunately, I'm so busy developing my own game, right now, I haven't had time to play one in months...
I agree with eric
Trust and believe that it is a good game. You get to brutally purge orks and chaos marines
Same, never played it but love the stories
Luetin is an awesome guy for taking his time to do this! I hope he's getting crazy huge ad money, The level of effort he puts in definitely deserves it. I make a concentrated effort not to hit skip ad on any of his videos for that very reason.
Dude 100 percent deserves every cent
I remember going down the rabbit hole of 40k on the return to the hobby years ago. My god it is dense. We deal with so much conjecture, speculation, retcons and some eyebrow raising writing... It's amazing to hear someone else so passionate about the philisophical, esoteric side of the lore. Keep it grim. Keep it dark.
I'd want your voice for 40K audiobooks
It's glorious to fall asleep to, because #cozy
Co staring with Wolf Lord Rho and Arch Warhammer. Anymore?
I converted all of these lore videos into audio books with the long intros etc cut so I can listen to them anytime, anywhere
@@discomfort5760 HAHAHA I do this too. I listen to his videos on my commutes to work but then I also turn them on before bed to fall asleep to. Its odd but I enjoy it.
I would buy it
Always find myself coming back to this doctoral dissertation of a 4 parter every few months. Timeless
Mate.. we're so lucky to have you. Can't say enough how much I love your content.
Praise the emperor! We have been graced with a new episode!
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!
*Hissssss*
When the demon said to Horus "if things keep on going this way", Horus was already gripped by doubt, or in some other way was more susceptible to be manipulated out of the cause he was figting for, and basically the demon manipulated him into staying that course with just the right choice of words, but without lying per se. How clever!
“A person often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.” Oogway from Kung Fu Panda
"There are no Oogways" - Master Accident
@@alfatazer_8991 😂
I want a Kung Fu Panda and Warhammer cross over
Mate i just have to say; That introduction was incredible. I had your playlist running while asleep, and i woke up to the start of this, with that fantastic music, and that monologue, and i can't explain it, but it was just so uplifting. I haven't felt so refreshed waking up in a long time. Great work.
Woken up and felt uplifted by a video on the subject of Chaos gods......... HERETIC !!!!!!!!
yes the music and the monologue was beatiful, did not see it coming
It's a quote from The Thin Red Line, a very good movie and even better book. You should check them out if you haven't already. There's a lot of really meaningful dialog in it.
@@mrmeeseeks5016😂😂😂
All about that bedtime play.
I used to just paint cool models and hang out with friends playing 40k, years later I find this, weeks later after that, I'm hooked on the lore. It's crazy amazing and I can only thank you for this. As an adult I have no time to go though all books and work this out. Its truly fantastic that you can make all of this lore edible with such artists Easy and took the time to turn this into this video/channel. Simply amazing 👏 hats off to you.
Dude. this is SO WELL done man seriously i dont know if everyone fully understands the amount of time you spent researching, thinking, writing, recording and editing this. YOU ARE AWESOME! thank you so much for what you do it's nice to escape for awhile, you are appreciated!
True dat yo
Lutein: We need to discuss causality.
Me: No need, I'm reading Berserk.
"You are slaves of time, while we are trully free"
- the Ruinous Powers
I’d say if you applied yourself to any academic field, you would be able to excel. You have went into depth about the nuances of time just for a fictional universe; not to mention the amazing effort in every other video. Love your stuff.
As a scientist this is part of what truly appeals to me with this channel. Everything is done in a very clean, thorough, technically concise yet well-worded way. It's easy to understand, all the right research is behind it yet it maintains a very entertaining and colourful way of describing. I've read many scientific papers that are significantly less well-formulated than these lore videos.
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt Yeah, and as someone who has an actual job to do I have no time to listen to the mad ramblings to someone who actually believes in paranormal shit. Go bother someone else with your ridiculous fantasies please.
when i fall asleep watching youtube i always wake up to chinese tiktoks or brazilian natural births :(
@James Sunderland How interesting. I'm interested in astral projection as well, apparently, it isn't as easy as closing your eyes, there is actual practice that is involved in this, candidates are told to lucidly dream, till they perfect this state, they won't be able to astral project. as to why that is, it simply put, is necessarry as if you can't control your conciousness without your body then... goodluck. See, apparently, movements within the astral realm for "projectors" still use their body, if not emotion (wraiths) to move. So, basically, movement and control within the lucid dream not only allows you to control magic and movement within the 4th to 5th dimension, but also child friendly as well!
so basically, lucid dreaming is an exetremely good way to practice mental visualization and astral movement, and I know that this is the best method to practice such arts. HOWEVER, I have not heard of this "recruited individuals" and their method of enchancement. As what I was taught, EVERYONE, COULD astral project HOWEVER this has been long lost as the practitioners died out a long time ago. Though, there is a way for one to do it, and thats... a complicated matter.
See, conciousness, or, in better terms, a soul is a form of energy, think of it as such. Chemical and Electrical for the human body and the human brain, but, within the astral realm? well, that's a complicated matter. There is an energy that is exetremely unique to emotion, it is an energy in the form of data. One can edit this data and turn it into something they wish to perceive. This is known as magic, depening on one's neural build up within the hypothalamus, one can know one''s affinity. There are other methods but, Sadly they had been long lost.
See, for the conciousness, depending on the strength, one can produce emotions during the astral state. And, if one is used enough, can even get energy from the astral realm itself. These people eventually become one with the astral realm if they are not careful enough, or if their practice is too weak.
ANYWAYS, I DONT WANAN SOUND LIKE AM ADMAN FOR RANTING AOBUT MAGIC BUT PLEASE TELL ME ABNOUT THE ONE WITH ASTRAL ABILITLS
@@simtexa That's an unbelievable thing to say considering the video you just praised. It really irks me how people like you think you are capable of any level of objectivity.
There are two orderings for the chaos gods:
1. There is the order each awakened to full sentience.
2. The is also the order in which they started to form.
The notion that Nurgle started to form first seems plausible. However, even if this is true, it does not mean Nurgle must have awakened first.
100% this, its consistent with everything we know and assume and works quite well thematically
Imagine Nurgle, Tzeentch and Khorne awakening like JJBA's Aztec Gym Gods
I watched this 18 months ago, then decided I would come back when the Dark Origins series was complete. I’m back, and I’m stoked. After I’ve watched any of your videos, they’re on a perpetual playlist at home and work. Good stuff.
40 writers: "Hey, let's have this weird wacky dimension where things get real fucky" "What, like, time and stuff?" "Sure, and we'll leave things super vague and nonsensical so we can just use this to get out of narrative holes when we need to. We don't need to figure out any logic behind it, no one else will after all."
Luetin: Hold my beer.
Seriously though, your videos are fascinating and this one is no exception. Thank you for the work you put in to them.
Kinda of the reason why I dislike Chaos so much. I guess there in lies its very existence; chaos. I just always found them to be so shoveled in just because 'demons'. I'm sorry 'daemons'. Whatever, the funniest thing is they always seem to be more of an annoyance rather than a real threat unlike the Orks and Tyranids.
Everything has to be so mean for no reason in 40k, it gets redundant
In laymans terms; when a car crash happens the police will take eye witness accounts and it's very typical that the 5 people who witnessed it, all give completely different stories based on their perspective, one will say Person A is innocent, and another will say Person B is innocent, and another will say a Person C was involved, even though they weren't.
In W40K you're trying to piece together information from multiple races from multiple perspectives, even in the real world it's difficult to get the truth and sometimes impossible, of course though in a fictional story the writers have the ability to provide the facts but in the end this constricts the writers to a specific path and they have less freedom for future lore as W40K becomes linear.
@All_lives_matter, reject fabricated racism by govt Ah so that explains why I couldn't dream for the past 6 years, I thought it was because I kept waking myself up too many times because the dreams were boring and tedious and as such my brain refused to provide me with dreams so it could get proper sleep without me waking myself up.
But then again in recent months I've been dreaming again.
Our reality is just like that
This is an excellent indication of why when people discuss the technology of WH 40K they should *never* compare it with real universe science, because much of it simply does not work.
My favourite WH 40K army is, and always will be the Tyranids, over the years I have lovingly painted and gamed multiple armies of nids, currently running one purely tooth and claw army, and one a more balanced combination of melee and range. For those wondering, the latter usually wins more games, but the former is just more fun!
Despite that however I am well aware of the impossibility of the Tyranids from a Biological perspective. Why? I have spent a career spanning decades as a Marine and Evolutionary Ecologist (yes, the latter does exist). As living organisms the vast majority of Tyranid bioforms are simply unsustainable or impossible. This is not just a casual observation, or something that can be waved away by the explanation 'well 40,000 years can change a lot'. 40,000 years does not, and cannot change the Square Cube Law. Those years cannot suddenly render the various biomechanical laws that underpin the maximum possible sizes of varios living organisms suddenly irrelevant (many of which are heavily influenced by the Square Cube Law). 40,000 years cannot render an organism suddenly able to maintain a fast metabolism (which explosively fast and powerful 'predatory' organisms like Tyranids WILL have) without having a digestive tract, something that lore states many Tyranid Bioforms do not have, and which I regard as flat out impossible, especially for those forms that use weapons with living ammunition. How are they going to reload if they cannot ingest food to replace their ammunition? 40,000 years cannot suddenly solve the issue of protein chirality, 40,000 years cannot solve the issue of how a 'species' is able to use genetic code that may well be wildly different to their own. And so on.
Protein Chirality is an interesting one here, Proteins, which is what DNA codes for, come in two major forms for each protein, left or right handed. This, in essence, is Protein Chirality, does the organism use left or right handed proteins? This is where it gets interesting, on Earth, the Chirality is for right handed proteins, however, there is NOTHING to say that this cannot be mirrored on another planet, and instead of being right handed, the chirality on this hypothetical other planet is for left handed forms. Should the two meet, then foods that are non toxic from each planet still cannot be digested by organisms from the other planet, because the enzymes will not 'latch'. Does this mean Tyranids are not homochiral? Certainly possible, but if that is the case then their genetic code is absolutely MONSTROUS, because they have to code for BOTH forms of EVERY protein they use. All this is before you even start looking at the various switches and other little surprises hiding in what many people even today still refer to as 'junk' DNA. If nids are Bichiral (I made that term up) then they are wasting vast amounts of effort generating doubles of every protein they need, but they almost HAVE to be if you take the Lore at face value because it states they are able to use Genetic Code from any living organism they come across. As there is no *reason* why Earth is right handed other than sheer random chance, then you can garuantee there are left handed chiral worlds out there.
Just looking at the nids alone I could come up with a list of impossibilities that are, to be frank, staggering.
This however is hardly surprising, the Tyranids were created and developed by Games Deveolpers and Creators with at best a limited understanding of Biology, just as they have a limited understanding of Engineering, Physics, Chemistry etc. They are, rightly, more interested in making a Game Universe that is fun, cool and interesting, NOT one that can be explained by, or compared to real world science.
In that they have succeeded admirably, WH 40K with all it's batshit insanity has held me in its grip since First Edition, and I very much doubt it will ever let me go, we can still love the game, even if things are an impossibility, but we should never make the mistake of trying to compare WH 40K with real science, because as this vid so clearly demonstrated, once you start looking even a little beyond the surface, it all starts falling apart.
So what you're saying is: we don't have to worry about Tyranids?
Thank the Emperor! Now we can traverse hell in flying Cathedrals, wearing nuclear-powered armour that weighs the same as a school bus and wielding semi-automatic grenade launchers in the name of an immortal magic vegetable safe in the knowledge that we have nothing to fear from dinosaur-bugs from another galaxy. I will sleep much better at night now that you've reassured me.
@@kingkong381 God I love it when 40k is described useing descriptors rather than the actual names. One of my favorites was Mandalore's description of it in his firewarrior review.
its so cool how much thought you've put into this,as if you've felt the need to raise your suspension of disbelief. I spend hours watching crap (well any horror) looking for something that'll scare me and get over my reason. Absolute evil, IE the omen, BS, no such thing as absolute anything, practiced buddhism for 20 years, everthing that's conditioned hence has rupa (is material) and must be relatively true by its nature. Alien, and aiens used to terrify me, until I pretty much followed your line of reasoning. the next generation of writers will hopefully add a whole new dimension to the genre. you should give it a go yourself
Does the effect of lets say ingesting proteins with the wrong chirality would be similar to the effects of Prions?
@@HookZORbite Tyranids don't "eat" people consider them biological drones that kill people then drag them into a digestive pool.
Your channel is insane! YOU are insanely great at presenting lore and making it seem so real.
Luetin, I've said this before and I will say it again, You have by far the best 40k Lore videos on the tube. Im new to 40k but Ive found myself in awe of the history and lore, and the depths you explore. Keep up the great work!! Im so glad I stumbled upon your videos!
15 minutes in: ''ok, lets get started''
lmao, thanks for the upload brother :)
Recent TV show called The Devils Hour touches on the concept of remembering things from your future vaguely through dreams or recognising objects.
Dude this video’s sheer scale and the clarity with which you tackle some of the subjects is mind blowing. And this is only part one? Damn!
Good job, and thank you!
I don’t think you should bother justifying what you say to preempt haters and douchebags. The silent majority love and appreciate your work and trust in your commitment to producing ace content.
i just finish your sharing.
I must say . i cannot imagine how much time and effort you've been spending on making such solid material.
this helps me understanding so much more about warhammer .
thank you so much for your effort.
respect x 99
Me: Man, I'm beat after that twelve hour shift.
Leutin: *posts*
Me: ...So, that's a thing. *watches*
Also, you know, keep up the amazing work! Your content is some of the best 40K content on the web, no lie.
This guy n arch got me into warhammer lore.
@SoulSoundMusic HERESY! This content is the BEST 40k content. ;)
@@jonathangibson9098 I shall report to my Regimental Commissar post haste.
Same although I fell asleep twice listening to this
@@skyhunter2423 I somehow still absorb the info in my sleep! It mihht be dejavu, but it seems to be the case.
I love the part about source bias, and that you did such a good job of explaining it and how awkward it is. One of the things I enjoy about 40k is how muddy the lore can be, as it reflects our own history: that more is being uncovered and discovered, but we've had to piece things together from biased texts (eg biographies on Roman Emperors written hundreds of years later, or descriptions of peoples the Romans fought written by the victor and intentionally skewed).
Well sourced physics in a 40k lore video--truly one of the best hobby channels, and a welcome source of thoughtful diversion in challenging times. Bravo!
As a green perfect bugman once told me, "multiverse theory's a bitch."
But do all these squares make a circle?
@@droopybg A. Literal. Gallon.
@@Cipher655 Out of a milk jug.
@@droopybg yes. Yes they do. Twice even. And that one’s still green!!
It doesn't bother me, it doesn't bother me.
It bothers me. It bothers me a lot!
Been over a year and still one of my favorite videos to listen to. Luetin, thank you for all you do to take my mind off this epidemic of "the virus" .. listening to chaos makes me hopeful for a great future.
Was wondering when a video is gonna come cuz I literally finished all of your 40k videos in the past week as a newcomer to the universe. You're awesome Luetin!
And I didn't even notice it's a 90 mins video! Blessing from the Emperor!
Duuuuuuude....I am also new to this universe and I can't stop listening to this guy's stuff!!! I am now spoiled by Luetin
As someone who as been in the hobby/universe for a few years now. I would like to welcome you both. Have fun losing your mind here. 👋😁
The first 15 minutes of this video is him saying "this is ambiguous, I'm gonna try to be accurate" over and over again
And then halfway through we go through random time travel tangents to the nth degree
Luetin puts more care and thought into these Warhammer lore videos than most college history professors put into their lectures.
The Inquisition has some concerns on your choice of *clears throat* "subject matter"...
to be fair Inquisition would have concerns if someone uses the wrong coffee mug lol
@@Luetin09 Oi! Coffee is a serious matter! Only heretics use unworthy mugs to drink Coffee!
@@Luetin09 *ahem* recaf, sir.
That's a small detail I never got. Why is it called recaf? That implies that they decaffeinate it but then later somehow *recaffeinate* it. Do they _actually_ do that? If so, *WHY!?*
@@ColeBlueford It, like many other things in 40k, is kind of varied as to its source. It comes from dried crushed leaves, but it's different depending upon which part of the Imperium, I don't know about it being decaffeinated and then recaffeinated, so much as they may add additional caffeine for a stimulant effect to an already present supply? I'm not a member of the Munitorum, otherwise I might know a little more, but since coffee beans are either long extinct, or have suffered some other grimdark fate, is beyond the scope of my knowledge.
I want to know what all these time travelers have against their Grandfathers.
Going back in time to kill your ancestors sure is a complicated way to suicide.
He drank too much.
1 year later this is still a hilarious comment.
Nurgle
I love the intense intellectual effort put into the concept of Time and two parallel planes of existing side by side that effect one another where Time exists in one but not the other, but at the end of the day, the only thing you can chalk it up to is poor understanding on the part of GW staff who write out the bulk of the Verse story. In that way its not all that dissimilar from religion in the real world. Now there is Shell Theory as I’ve heard it described where Time isn’t a 4th dimension, per se, but is in fact a gate way to parallel physical Verses in general. It still breaks down if one applies omniscience to a god, but I don’t recall 40k ever positing that the Ruinous Powers are limitless at all
The prodigal son returns brothers! Rejoice! For the Emperor!
This video right here, this is a true masterpiece of 40k lore work right here. Love your work man.
The intro slaps so hard, for anyone who wants to know the song it's called lost memories by formantix
I’ve been looking for the intro song for a while now. Came across this comment. Thank you 🙏
Today on TedTalk: Luetin09, "WH 40k & time travel"
Great vid, I always got round that issue with the precept of time being relative from the prospective of the viewer. For the Chaos gods, incapable of understanding corporeal time, means that when Slaanesh was born, it expanded out to fill the warp's expanse in every sense of the word. It being a realm of time, but not bound to linear time of the material universe. From the 3 dimensions of the Eldar, Slaanesh doesn't exist and them comes into being, but for those in the warp, in 4 dimensions and thus existing in all times as the warp does, Slaanesh, appears and stretches out and back as well filling up their present, but only existing in their non linear perspective and not reaching back in our material point of view.
Simply put, if the warp is without any time, then anything within it must be by definition have always been present, it is the interactions with the extra dimension, being time in which you create cause and effect, from the perspective of those both within and without. Thanks Luetin, lots to think about.
I’ve always thought of it as our timeline, a straight line, cuts through the warp’s timeline, which is outward-spiraling (and possibly rotating)…at least that’s just how I avoid giving myself a headache for my fanfiction 😉
That reminds me of the Attractor Field in Stein;Gate
"When you have no restrictions, you can make anything work.........." Sooooooo the Orks are right? WAAAAGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
*WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHH*
20 minutes in: “I think I’m pretty smart, I can handle this.”
1 hour in: “Aaaaaaaaaaagh my brain!”
I see there are a number people creating content about 40k lore. This channel is by far the best IMO.
My god! Just listening to the first 30-mins or so does my head in, I can see why this stuff can send men into madness!
I just stumbled across your content after getting back into warhammer and I am loving it. The depth and referencing you go to is amazing and I can’t stop watching your vids. Thanks so much keep it up!
That artwork with Rogal Dorn and others standing on a balcony with the massive golden lions behind them (41:53); does anyone know what planet that is supposed to be, if any?
I don't often feel compelled to weigh in on videos but I love this stuff. If time does not exist in the warp how can a sub sentient entity in the warp have perception of an event occurring in the future when the concept of events occurring one after the other simply does not exist?
I can't speak to the official lore but my head canon goes like this: The chaos gods are created from events in the material world. This binds them to our world which limits their power. Chaos gods may be powerful beings that aren't restricted by time and space but to influence the past runs the risk of preventing their origin which I kind of visualise as a physical tether that ties the Chaos gods to their very existence. Should the tether be cut they will have never existed. A simple illustration would be that Slaanesh doesn't eat soles from before his birth because that would almost certainly guarantee he would never exist, breaking the tether. This is of course a paradox and this is the part where we might consider that if there are no laws of time in the warp what rules could there be to govern it?
Perhaps it isn't so much that Slaanesh chooses not to but physically cannot due to the nature of reality in the warp. What if traversing the barrier between the immaterium and the materium is like navigating a complex web of cause and effect, trying to find a viable path. (I won't go into the fact that the idea of 'trying' makes no sense without time in that all moves by such an entity are all occurring simultaneously and eternally.)
The obvious counter point: Wouldn't it mean that all points in time after the event that created the Chaos god be open season? Anything goes with no consequences? Possibly not. There are other warp entities, now I'm not well versed enough in the lore to know if all warp entities are spawn of the Chaos gods but assuming that they are not and instead other entities are created from events in the material world the implications get interesting assuming these entities can influence the material world. If the chain of events that lead to the creation of a Chaos god was influenced by another entity somewhere down the line, then that means said god would not be able to take action that compromises their unique tether. Considering that even the comparably straight forward materium is still complex to a mind boggling degree it would be fair speculation that a staggering number of events leading to the birth of a Chaos god would be influenced by unseen warp entities that would all place limitation on the Chaos god especially considering that these entities may be tethered to future points in time from the Chaos god's tether.
But what if a tether could be broken? Well causality would be entirely rewritten in an instant and we would not notice. Such an event would send a 'ripple' through the warp as billions of entities are both born and winked out of existence and because they were never born the actions they took never occurred and as such reality is instantly totally different. Why don't we see this? aside from it being a complete bullshit move from a narrative perspective? Like the ultimate it was all just a dream twist? Well I could explain it but I don't think anyone cares. This post is massive. If you want to know just ask. (seriously I'll explain if you ask I don't need 20 likes or some bullshit.)
Bottom line is my explanation is all just speculation and really the point of the video was a discussion based on what the rules are in an official capacity even if that doesn't completely make sense. I really enjoyed it.
I know its been a month but im asking for it
@@theminecraftkids28 To begin with we need to throw out quantum theory. I mean you could theoretically integrate quantum theory into the 40k universe as long as you were only applying the science at the conceptual level with a tweak to one of the fundamental concepts. That fundamental concept being that of true randomness. The way I see it, you can't have an eternal universe if true random exists. It will make more sense as I go through this.
So how does an eternal universe factor into the point of this post? The point for those just joining us is to explain how massive causality breaking events in the warp can actually be theoretically possible. Read the post above for the background. Leutin pointed out that in order for the time loops in 40k to make sense the universe must be eternal which implies that the entire universe including every point in time is created all at once. Non warp mortal beings then experience this universe moment by moment as time passes. Leutin touched on the implications of free will in such a universe but allow me to offer an altered perspective. Imagine a ball resting on a table, the table isn't particularly well constructed so one of the legs is slightly shorter. Slowly the ball starts rolling to the corner of the table, gradually picking up speed. It's a simple physics analogy that demonstrates that as an observer you'd be able to predict that the ball will fall. Going further you'd be able to surmise what the ball would do before it was placed on the table if you had knowledge of the table's flaw ahead of time. So now assuming that true random doesn't exist wouldn't it follow that the entire universe including it's timeline could be determined by the nature of it's origin? Applying this logic it becomes clear what the choices of sentient beings are; they are the simply the latest action in a chain reaction stretching back to the start of the universe.
What do I mean by the "nature of the universe's origin"? I am talking about two things, first the big bang which I see as an unalterable epoch where the both the material universe and the immaterium were created together. The other being the configuration of the warp entities. Now with such entities how can all of causality be determined in this way? The answer is because they're not restricted by time. Think back to my last post, because there is no such thing as a sequence of events for a warp entity all actions taken are happening simultaneously and eternally. The influence of warp entities is effectively part of the fundamental structure of the universe.
This brings us neatly to the point I was alluding to in the previous post. What happens if the actions of one warp entity destroys the tether of another? Well if you've been able to follow what I've been explaining then it should be clear to you. Such an "event" if you want to call it that doesn't occur like a dramatic cataclysm destroying everything. Such an event annihilates the timeline itself and because entities in the 40k universe perceive time it means they will continue to perceive time until time no longer exists (if such a thing is possible).
To paint the picture of what I mean in the form of a story imagine this. First the universe is born and then immediately billions of warp entities begin struggling against one another. They fight across time and space trying to destroy other entities while also trying to shield themselves from the "ripple" the death of other warp entities create. Each time a warp entity of sufficient influence is destroyed an entire timeline blinks out of existence and a new one emerges in it's place. Of course this can't continue eternally. Powerful entities whose births are owed to powerful but common conditions manage to create sufficient defences around their own tethers. Other entities who fight on or simply cannot escape are eventually destroyed and the immaterium reaches a stalemate. In this state of relative calm a universe is allowed to exist. When thought of like this I wonder if the Chaos Gods even realise that a stable timeline has been created.
So are the Chaos Gods and other warp entities just stuck now? It seems that way. Their moves are made at the creation of a timeline and as the current timeline is in progress there just isn't anything more they can do.
@@AndyDurandal wow I really enjoyed your perspective. Everything you said sounded very logical and though out.
A bit late, but no, not all warp entities are Chaos spawned, nor alligned with Chaos persé.( "Enslavers" for example )
But, well thought and brought mate.
@@AndyDurandal for a physicists perspective I'd refer you to my comment, TL;DR imagine the materium as a plane, one dimension space the other time and the warp as a parallel plane crumple both where the planes are closer the 2 realms interact more closely. With regards to the separating of the materium from the immaterium early perhaps the both join up as one plane early in time like a wish bone shape.
Jesus christ, you cant just put this on side screen and try "just listen" when doing something else.
preach. I tried to play dow while listening to this, and now my armies lie in an ocean of their own blood 'cause I couldn't pay attention to the game :D
Dracu 98 blood for the blood god
i keep trying to play games while listening and i just can’t do it lmao. this stuff is too interesting to not watch durectly
@@dracu9833 this pleases Khorne
@@thegamingfish547I do it, but only after I’ve watched it initially.
These are so wonderfully edited and composed. Thanks Luetin for these very informative and heretical videos.
I usually listen to these videos while training in Rocket League. You know, something simple, audially pleasing, with no need to pay close attention to cuz other than these vids I have no connection or interaction with the 40K universe. But man, was this an effort to listen to, my bran has almos shut down from all that load.
Excellent work man.
I'm incredibly indecisive if I should watch this now and suffer later, or watch this later and suffer now. Either way I'll also be rewarded with pleasure, I am sure - but Slaneesh is certainly grateful for the whole ordeal regardless.
Silence Heretic.
@@bloodraven1190 >MUTATED SCREAMING
This is one of the most interesting, in depth videos, that I have ever come across! FEW do this, thanks Luetin09!
Me: I think I finally figured out how the Warp works.
Lutin: storytime f**kers!
I heard that in ArchieLuxury's voice!
Wow, your academic elocuence and professionalism reminds me of my favourite teacher i had at the university while studying history. You practically wrote an investigative thesis in 3 weeks for this, that's quite an achievement!
Bruh. Eloquence is the word; and not even a really good one to use here. Eloquence wouldnt be "academic" either; his speaking would be eloquent and well studied; the subject would be academic. There is no such thing as an "investigative thesis". Youd make an investigative essay to defend said thesis. Theres nothing thesis about this video. Its functionally recounting events in a psuedo journalistic/historian manner. Just say "well done"; you look like an absolute moron misusing all these words you clearly dont understand lol
You went into more detail about time than some college courses I took decades ago! Good job making a lecture with 40K lore.
It's like falling into an endless void of confusion… JUST AS THE CHAOS GODS INTENDED. 😈
I blame Tzeentch. He likes turning people's brains inside out with complicated stuff.
Just as planed
@@CharlesUrban why do you think he is so much complicated, because he tangled himself in madness, for me tzzentch is the chaos god who incarnated mostly opf what is the warp.
Holy shit I admire your love and dedication for this channel
It's possible the Horus Pre-Destination Paradox isn't a paradox after all
38:29 - 43:05 for context.
To be clear I'm new to the lore and could be missing an important detail regarding the Horus' demonic vision, but I find this idea which came to me intriguing and I'd love to hear what you guys think.
Could it be that the vision of a religion-gripped imperium which the demon showed Horus wasn't "the real future" created by Horus, but an accurate prediction of what was to come if Horus were to be tricked (which he successfully was). Accepting this interpretation of the demon's vision means Horus wasn't caused to betray the emperor by himself but by the demon (who himself isn't breaking any causality rules and therefore there's no causality loop). I don't fully understand why/if this works (and what exactly the distinction is between "real future" and prediction) but it does seem to evade the time-loop pre-destination paradox the canon seems to create.
Leuton: starts talking about time in the warp
Me: quietly leaves to get some food and something to drink knowing full well it's going to take a while
inquestor william It’s Isaac Arthur levels of physics.
I knew almost nothing about Warhammer before watching your videos. Now here I am binge watching these like a fan boy.
You do some seriously amazing work, so thank you for all the effort you put into this.
For most of the lore franchises I research, there's usually a main channel I come to for it. This channel is becoming that for my 40K research
Thank you for the explanation at the beginning. As an author myself, who has also created magical worlds, I sometimes got a little doubtful when you'd state 'this is never officially confirmed' or 'this is never officially made clear' in other videos (I've been watching your 40k Lore/History playlist in order, so I've seen about 30 videos by this point). Because the reason some things are never made clear has always been obvious to me, because GW doesn't want some avenues of future stories cut off, they want to keep things as open as possible for their own official creators and also for fans to play with themselves. I love listening to your videos because you've got a great and clear voice and I love how you make these videos into basically history channel documentaries for 40K lore, and it's taught me a lot about how GW have created different aspects of their lore over time, but it has also made really clear the constraints both GW writers and even people like you have to work in because the lore has to stay flexible enough for GW to support their 40k for... well potentially millennia ;)
Chaos is like electricity; we don't understand electricity, we only use it.
--A corruption of a quote from Maya Angelou
What do we not understand about electricity? Or do you mean something like the gravity paradox?
@@PuddingXXL I think it means we don't understand its essential nature. We can explain how it works, but not why. Modern science can't answer and isn't interested in answering why questions. And that's a good thing! It keeps to what it can explain without essentializing
@@jamesbaurus5928 I call BS. Firstly, science cares a lot about "why", and secondly electromagnetism is the only fully understood law of nature right now. Understanding of electromagnetism is one of the greatest example of why science is a useful tool.
@@aidenmurphy9924 Why is mass energy equivalence related to the speed of light.
Why is the value of a constant that particular value and no other value.
Science doesn't answer this stuff.
@@CountingStars333 Funny that you can find out the answer just with a quick google of that exact question. The answer is that energy, in the form of radiation or light, propagates at that speed. When an atom is split in a nuclear reaction, the energy is released at the speed of light.
Moving on from this video as all my mind was saying with all the explainations of why he wrote stuff, was 'Get on with it!' From Monty Python.
Me, can't study for more than one hour at a time,
Luetin: Spend hours looking for a abscure refrence some semi pro mentioned.
Love ur vids man
Well, tiny acid handed fly man sounds like what tzeench might make for fun lol
This channel is what got me into 40k.. I have watched nearly every single one of your videos, other peoples videos and plan on visiting my local warhammer shop in town and seeing whats available
Amazing. I cannot wait. An hour and half of THE most high quality lore content on TH-cam. Thank you such much.
Dude, I'm binge watching your lore videos and man, the quality just keeps improving. You're really good at narrating!
I have to say again, the SONGS / Music that Luetin chooses for these videos are absolutely SUPERB!!
So i think my dad actually said something interesting. For an infinite being who experienced a conception they existed beforehand as a thought always existing but incapable of acting. The event of conception can only occur within the realm of time, hence imortal beings are still tied to the laws of time in some fashion.
When the event of conception is introduced said sentient being can act.
For a chaos god they have always existed as a concept they feed on their own concept blood for the blood god yadayada. In 40k these “concepts” escalated into a form called chaos gods, and although non linear creatures they are bound by the absolute linear event that caused them taking form. They would never mess with that timeline because it could inadvertently kill them.
And although they might be able to observe the timeline and perhaps even “fate” they are shackled by it. Fueling their rage of incapablity even with their absolute power the only way for them to change fate is by seductive means on mortals getting them to summon them into time. the idea of “concept” is what feeds them, they need it they would always use the most efficient method of obtaining that and their chosen method had always been seduction and summoning
Creating a series of well produced and edited 40K lore videos is already excellent. But attempting to explain how the Warp works, even explain the physics behind it... Now, you've CLEARLY outdone yourself this time, Leutin09.
Sometimes when I watch your videos, I feel WH 40k is just a pretext to talk about narratives, physics, philosphy, art... and I love it.
This was absolutely fucking amazing ! The music and the vocals and the writing and oh my god this is your best episode yet I am truly stunned.