Debunking The Tire Age Myth | The Shop Manual
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2021
- Thanks to Kershaw Knives for sponsoring this episode of The Shop Manual. Kershaw is giving away free pocket knives and offering viewers a discount on all purchases. Woohoo!
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We all know that tires age, and that over time the rubber will harden and degrade. But do motorcycle tires really have an expiration date, and if not, how old is too old to trust a set of buns? We dispel the hearsay and explain the factors that impact how a tire ages in this episode of The Shop Manual.
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Kershaw's are fantastic pocketknives, really cool to see you guys partner with them. I discovered them like 3 years ago and haven't carried anything since.
I bought the Shuffle for $15 on sale out of curiosity and now I own five different Kershaws. The quality is impeccable considering the price, in my opinion high-quality product at a very mid-teir price.
Also if you're an Oregon native the customer service at the factory is tremendous; they'll give you a tour, replace almost anything that breaks, and sharpen any Kershaw for free.
Huge fan of the product and the company, awesome that you're collaborating with them.
Remember the gixxer vs Ducati video? How about one with even older bikes? Say an early fireblade or something with reasonable mods? Then maybe back all the way to the original gixxer 750?
It would be great to see how much difference there really is through the generations.
Tires used in the tour de france are aged in wine cellars.
10 years is the shelf life for a tire 5 years is if they are in use and out in the weather in general. That's what I was taught by the US navy atleast it's actually in our manuals.
Ari always looks like he's doing 150 push-ups before filming
😏
So do I and I probably haven't done one in 10 years. It's all about diet.
@@LeoTheComm haha of course
"diet" and a TRT protocol 😂
If you notice , a lot of men has tits now from their medications.... Some are grossly obscene....
I like how Dave is now a recurring character in RevZilla videos.
I agree! Its fun to see how far RevZilla has come with their videos from the old days of just basic product reviews
I hope they add more recurring characters to the cinematic universe
@@kenjikenjikenj ha! Maybe the dumb and dumber bike will ride once again!
Yeah, I want a Dave too. Hard to find one around here.
Not a big fan of revzilla. But i do like Dave’s videos
We rode on tyres in the seventies that were infinitely worse brand new than late nineties tyres languishing in someone’s store room for a decade. Add Seventies suspension and brakes. Amazing how any of us survived. Still miss those days.
I'm glad you covered this topic! Many people didn't believe me when I told them I raced on a slick tire that was over 5 years old and it gripped well enough for me to win the races. You hit it spot on regarding what truly affects a tire.
Where you intentionally trying to widow your wife and orphan your kids when you decided to race a motorcycle on old tires?
These are usually the people who also believe that after their motorcycle helmet has fallen off the table, they have to buy a new one because X-ray examinations would reveal microcracks in the crystalline structure at atomic level. Apart from the fact that this is not true, but is just talk, it doesn't occur to them that the helmet itself would still be even stronger than the soft mass in their skull cavity. If it were the case that tires age so rapidly, then you would probably have to replace all the tubes and hoses on a car engine every two years.
10 year old tire experiences here. Had them on a FZS600 that was long forgotten. Took it directly to a track day after servicing it back from a storage. The storage years had been in a cool, fairly stable temperature with minimal light. Would have not dared otherwise.
I have to say the 1st few laps were veeery cautious but, after getting familiar with the behaviour I overtook a couple of speedier bikes simultaneously and such. Just wanted to test ride it easy however it turned out a flat out track day...
They were Pirelli and Metzeler sport touring tires and yes, got rid of the chicken strips. Would not recommend this thing but there u go it's done. 10 year old touring tires on a track day. :)
My tires are around 20 years old ( This bike stayed in the kitchen most of his life ) and tires look fine :))
I'd love to see a video like this on helmet ages and what the experts say.
th-cam.com/video/_nbQsnUvlo4/w-d-xo.html
Haha that's a good one! I bet FortNine would be up for that!
Yes please, no way a helmet never dropped has a 5 years expiration date!
@@MattiaBiggMattGentile even dropped is likely fine too. Particularly from less than 3 feet and with no weight inside
Fortnite has a whole video just for limit time for all equipment.
I love that he literally stood on a soap box🤣
I recently realized the bike I've had for 2 years had a 20 year old tire on the back and a 6 year old tire on the front. I ditched them both for a fresh set of Avon Roadriders, which made a world of difference. The rubber on the old tires was rock hard, even the 6 year old tire. The new tires feel nice and spongy. The bike feels lighter now. Changing the tires was a huge pain in the butt without one of those tire changers but I'm glad I did it.
You are comparing used/worn tires with new ones and probably a different brand. Thats not a fair comparison
I got a bicycle with old tires from a relative and both tires punctured and let out air slowly so i got new ones. The old ones were cracked from aging.
Really the tire age depends on Manufacturer and models more than anything, save for heat yes.
We've had TDH tires turned rock hard in 3 years on the shelf whilst 3 year old AVONs and Michelins are as good as their 3 month old brothers. We are however on the equator
environment of how they are stored.
Sunlight, heat, cold, humidity, etc.. all play a big role especially if you live in a area where these things fluctuate rapidly.
oh nice to see your here as well brother. Still in lahore k nikal gae agay?
When I buy a bike I don't stress out over tires or batteries. They are easily replaced and riding on crummy tires is just dangerous and, well, dumb.
@@donaldoehl7690 as much as i want to get a pair of pirellis or michelin, im still rolling with my iffy IRCs that came with the bike 3 years later cause im a broke college student. Not everyone can be like you boss.
Patched the rear tyre once too, still goin fine even though the rear likes to slip out a lil like a naughty toddler when not in your sights
I think the best way to combat tire aging...
Is to use them!
100% agree! Most people will wear their tires out well before age is a concern.
I prefer to buy bike with worn tires since I can change to tires of my own choice.
Absolutely. But...
Depends on how many bikes youve got. I own 5 and most of the time I replace the tires because of age. Not because I dont drive a lot, but because the wear on my tires evenly spreads over 5 sets of them.
@@donaldoehl7690 Wenn der Verkäufer den Preis entsprechend nachlässt , bin ich absolut auf deiner Seite
Best comment :D
Ari, this ranks with your best SM's ever. You handled a touchy subject in a new "fresh" way. Not to say that's not always the case, because you always do great research and come at a topic with an open mind. But it's hard to find much info about tires, and I think that's because the 5 year trope is so ingrained in us. Heck, I've spouted it at least four times in the last six months.
Also, it's always great to see you and Dave on track eating "Italian for breakfast".
Many many kudos on this one.
I'm glad you liked it, J.R. I was raised on the 5-year trope as well, and have even quoted it in articles I've written in the past. It was enlightening to speak directly with tire manufacturers on the topic, but even more eye opening to converse with a few elastomer experts (that work for independent labs on myriad major rubber projects, not just tires) about how and why tires degrade.
@@AriH211
And that is what makes a good video - research, facts & testing. You've put in effort of doing all three. Well done!
UV light degrades rubber, not age.
Which is why virtually all tyre companies keep them racked in the dark of a warehouse.
So sitting in a dark garage is ok.
Finally a dissertation on tire shelf life that is comprehensive and technical, with empirical first-hand findings thrown in. Excellent, Ari.
I bought my bike with 7 year old tires on it, and I wasn’t sure tire aging was anything more than a sales gimmick. Decided to get new after the back wheel kept sliding unexpectedly and I noticed some dry rot on the nubs (dual sport bike), and the difference was like going from leather sole dance shoes to sneakers. I can’t believe how much better they are.
That was my case too, Dunlop front tyre from 2015 from Factory, i bought that bike from Someone, they had about 9k miles when i changed that front tyre , and the way It inclines on the corners is so much better apart from the confindence they give me.
Love it. I'm currently running a rear Dunlop Q3 that Cycle Gear sold me new for $80... for being almost 5 years old.
That's so awesome. You gotta love catching deals like those.
Is the q3 equivalent to the sportsmart mk3?
Great tip. Keeping my eyes open for deals like this.
Hey Cuban Rider, I know those tires won't get much older the way you go thru them. LOL! Stay safe CR.
@@seniorrider9337 haha, you know it!
Wintergreen oil can restore older dryer tires. This is what is used for Go-Karts to get them to stick to the track. So long as your tires are not severely dry-rotted, you can paint on some wintergreen oil and wait 45 minutes for it to soak in and it will be good and grippy. Additionally, you can remove the valve stem from the tire and put up to 30cc worth of wintergreen oil INSIDE the tire (so long as it is not a tubed tire) and ride it SLOWLY (no more than 30mph) for 5 minutes to coat the inside. This renews the oils in the tire and extends the life of the tire.
I was worried that he was just going to ride on the unused old tires and call idea of expiration a myth, glad to see a deeper dive into the things that actually do age tires, great information.
As someone who came from the car world first, the 5 year tire rule always sounded like BS to me. I've always heard 10 years for car tires. Sure compounds are different between the two, but not THAT different. Very well done putting it to the test!
I work at a tire shop honestly most old tires are difficult to work with, when I repair an old tire even when dismounting the old tire bend ring side tear a part.
Old tires sometimes can't handle the stress of a dismount.
my worst examle i had was an old muscle car with original tires (over 30 years old), it was amost undrivable. in my opinion it depends on the use and storage of thw tires exspecialy if they have a lot of uv exposure ages an tire
@@AudioPhil84
A long time ago I was driving my 98 honda civic not sure about the year of the tires but I knew they were old but I was to young to care, the driver front tires ply came a part valiantly.
It damage my head light wiring, front fender, hood, hood wire latch, droke my head light and left bad scratch marks on my driver door.
After that day I care a little bit more about the tires I ride with, also it could've been worse.
@@chilevalentina27 So properly stored tires are fine, but ones that has been used for 5+ years are starting to get dangerous?
@@megapet777 This is my suspicion. Mounted tires that are being heat cycled (even just sitting in a garage) seem to be, let's just say, less optimal, after 5 or so years. Unmounted tires stored in a climate controlled environment apparently do much better.
The storage thing really is key!
I had an older set of tyres that was stored in a really hot container…. And I definitely could FEEL the difference on track.
But knowing that they can be properly stored - that’s awesome. You could potentially get some nice deals on tyres :)
Yup, it's all about the storage conditions. I spoke to one tire manufacturer that had a customer report severe dry rot on car tires that were only two years old. Turns out the guy had an ozone generator in his garage as part of an air-purifying strategy.
Ari is one of the best sources in the biz, A, because he's got years of pushing motorbikes too, and past their limit, and B, equally important, he's passionate about motorbikes. Listen up and take notes, cuz this cat has great advice and knowledge to share.
No one rides past the limit unless they are in MOTO GP/WSBK. Use your brain for once
@@TheInfantry98 That is the dumbest shit I've read all day
When I started riding I didnt know much about bike maintenance and knew no one who would explain me. My first bike I bought was an old Yamaha XJ 600 from 97.
The tires on the bike had still plenty of depth, I checked frequently. 2 years ago I sold the bike and checked the depth of the tires one last time. I realised that, after riding the bike for 15.000km, the depth still was the same as when I bought the bike. I wondered why and only then I checked the age of the tires and was shocked - they were still the factory tires from 1997, 23 years old with 50.000 km on the clock... Never had a problem with them, not a single skid.
Dave, the Legendary K5- Still a solid platform to test tires on! Thanks for this, Ari.
It mostly depends on the brand/model, and what kind of use they get. I work in a tire shop, and I've seen tires that are only 2 or 3 years old that are dry rotted and rock hard, and 8 year old tires that are perfectly fine
Informative and I must say refreshing. Finally a TH-cam presenter with a vocabulary that doesn't require an expletive in every sentence.
What a great and timely video! I had the same question last week when I changed my rear and found out that previous owner left the front there for nearly 5 years. Luckily my little bike tyre shop owner confirmed everything you've said, so will keep the front for a little while until next big tour and no longer than the summer anyway. Loving these SM videos, keep going!
Very good information. Thanks for sharing. As a tire professional of 14 years, I agree with everything shared in this video!
It’s good to see Dave back in action. Such a solid performer and always willing to put in the work.
Now the same video for helmet expiration dates would be interesting. 🤔
I’ve seen that some hardhats(safetyhelmets) have like a small “uv-indicator “ that shows when it has been exposed to a certain amount of radiation and its time to replace the helmet. Shouldn’t that work on motorcycle helmets as well? 🤔
@@henrikforsberg683 I suppose it could, but with hard hats you are worried about the outer shell integrity. With a motorcycle helmets you are worried more about the inner foam’s condition which isn’t exposed to much UV overall. A moisture indicator might be better.
I love how they show how to stock the tyres correctly: in a vertical position but right next to a .. compressor 😉🤣🤣
I work at a large nationwide tire shop in the US. Can’t say exactly which one cause I don’t want a message from the corporate office lol. But what I can tell you that isn’t made very clear in the video, at least to me, is that the recommended 10 year age replacement from Bridgestone, Michelin, Continental, and Dunlop are not actually recommendations. There is a federal mandate that no shop is allowed to service a tire of that age due to the integrity of the tire being so diminished from age and the other things mentioned in the video. I’m sure you could still find mom and pop shops that will service a tire older than 10, but generally it’s a bad idea. I have been told that those above companies do recommend replacement at 7 years as well, but that is for car and truck tires. It may be different for motorcycles. Otherwise everything in the video was amazing and accurate. Love to see it. Keep up the good work guys!
I researched the topic a lot and didn't find a government mandate, but most tire makers are part of the USTMA (U.S. Tire Manufacturers Association) which states that 10 years is the service life for both car and motorcycle tires.
Great video, Ari. Thanks for taking the time to perform this in-depth evaluation and state your honest conclusions.
This was extremely educational. Great content as usual.
This year I replaced a set of 2013 Dunlop 427s that had plenty of tread left. It wasn't the grip that warranted their replacing, they'd got a wave pattern ripple in them all the way around the front tire. Ever ride on the wake up strip? That's what it felt like. The plies or belts had let go. Now this was on a 700lb Dyna that was garage kept & it may be different on lighter bikes, but I think 8 years is tops for a Dunlops on a Harley.
If the bike sat on the sidestand then it might have killed the tires. When storing a ride for the winter or something it is always better to lift both wheels from the ground to not put pressure on the tires and not deform due to the weight of the bike itself
@@ruikazane5123
That was my first thought too when he said 700lbs Dyna garage stored - physical stress. Though we don't have any other details, such as heat conditions in that garage or nearby electrical devices. Or even if they were inflated properly prior to and during storage.
And it must have been stored a lot if he still had plenty of tread left after 8 years.
Good episode, I always appreciate an apprentice from Dave the gsxr
Great job. Thank you for all the research you put into this videos and the practical advice.
Awesome information. Thanks for all the research and effort that goes into each episode.
Not sure if it’s already mentioned below, but oxygen molecules are smaller than nitrogen and will filter out of the tire. So, the first fill-up will lose ~20% pressure and the topping-off will only lose a small percentage. Effectively, you have nitrogen-filled tires after your second tire pressure adjustment (unless you change pressures a lot)
Great Video, I always use front and rear stands through winter storage and while on my drive in the summer, the only reason is that i don't like to use the kick stand for long periods of time plus its easier for cleaning/Maintenance and tire inspection.
Thanks for putting out real information on tires. There are so many myths out there it is nice to get real data!
As someone who had 11 year old tires on a cbr i bought, it makes a big difference. If the road is anything but nice pavement then its scary. Its simply not worth not buying new tires after 5 or 6 years.
How about on wet surface? 😜 I personally know from experience how that goes. But really, don’t use old tires on wet surfaces. Even though the treads look good.
this exactly! that's when old tires really show their age. any tire will perform well on hot surfaces on the track
I think of the half a dozen or so videos I’ve seen on tire expiration this is the most informative and intelligently done.
Not because he is saying what I want to believe but he gives you all of the factors.
Now I am trying to relate this to automobile tires as I have six year old Perelli‘s on my car.
One other factor at least for automobile tires I’ve heard is the wear rating.
If your automobile tire has a wear rating of 100 and is a high-performance tire that rubber deteriorates faster than the 400 on my tires.
And this is the only video I’ve seen where I’ve gotten the actual recommendations for major tire manufacturers.
Nicely done and thank you
Without any science to back me up, this is the opinion I've had since I was in my teens! Now finally I have something to show people who insisted that when the clock struck midnight on 60th month, the tires were only good for the bin...
Good video. Due to difficulties in obtaining 18" rears I generally buy two, the way things are going might be having 10 yo stock in my store! My only suggestion for next time is do a blind test, where you don't know whats on the rims. It didn't matter here but if you had decided there was a difference your pre-test bias is a variable that you can remove. 👍
Not really an issue for me, I'll wear out my tires before there's even the remotest chance of aging.
That’s the best solution 😃
True for me also, but I ran up against this issue once when buying a used bike. When I switched tires and the bike felt a million times better I was ready to blame the make and model of tire. But my tire guy says that maybe age was a factor since they were 6+ years old and had been on the bike almost that whole time. (But of course a tire salesman would push the age thing right?) Still ...dunno. Edit: The tires and the bike only had 740 miles on them.
@@kleinbottled79740 miles? Well before you blame the make/ model or aging, consider some bike mfgs cut corners on OEM rubber.
740 miles on a bike for 6+ years? Who rides like this? I did like 450 miles yesterday.
@@user-mb4xy2cz3t Right? Someone who bought a bike and then decided motorcycling wasn't really for them. I've put 8000 miles on it in about a year and a half.
Excellent vid, and one of the best TSMs to date in my opinion. Keep these great videos coming!
Perfect video for me. I bought a CBR929RR with tires from 2006. Pilot tires with tons of tred. I’ve been ripping them 100mph with no second thought oops
Excellent video, Ari! Love it when the truth triumphs over BS.
A little experience upsets a lot of theory.🧐
Great vid. Helpful info, fun (as always) presentation, and some neat production flare. You certainly eased my mind about shopping for a used bike. One of my factors has been tire age, since if they're going to need replacement I have to factor that cost in. Knowing that even if they're five years old, if they look good I can still get some miles out of them makes it a lot easier.
Just as the myth a 20,000 mile bike has high miles, this myth won't die just because of one TH-cam video.
@@sv650nyc7 Thing is, I trust Ari when it comes to motorcycles, and he definitely killed the myth in my mind.
I'm glad this vid instilled some confidence, but don't assume any tire less than 10 years old is still good. As I stressed in the vid, how the tire is stored and what it experiences in use is more critical than it's age. Since we can never really know how (an installed) tire was treated, exercise caution. An easy rule of thumb is to stick a fingernail in the rubber. If your nail presses in fairly easily and the rubber rebounds readily, that's a good indicator that the rubber is still sufficiently compliant to offer good traction.
@@AriH211 Thanks. It's definitely going to stay a concern, but not automatically adding the price of tires to anything with more than four or five years on the tires can really help in today's limited selection situation. Thanks for the nail tip. One more little bit of info from you to make our motorcycling lives smoother.
Excellent video on tires!! I really enjoyed your presentation and ride testing. Looking forward to more of your expose videos!
Very well done 👍 With lockdowns and restrictions (Australia) this has been something on my mind. Thanks.
Cheers Ari. Dave is freaking awesome!
I am glad nobody told my tires they expire. I grew up tearing around gravel roads at high speed on tires that were never newer than 20 years.
a few years ago nobody knew the tyres have DOT so tyres were not aging...when people discovered DOT, all of a sudden, tyres 1 year old are considered dead...
@@OM-df9lj^tires
@@ryanmg02 "Tire and tyre both mean a covering for a wheel, usually made of rubber. Tire is the preferred spelling in the U.S. and Canada. Tyre is preferred in most varieties of English outside North America." (source; grammarist)
Always rode with Michelin or Dunlop. Bought from revzilla everytime. One time I got a nail on my rear tire like 3 days after putting it on, and you guys sent me another brand new rear Dunlop Q3 for free!!! Thank you so much
Wow that was like watching Fort 9 about the myth of dark side tires. Thanks I can watch them both all day keep it up.
Well researched, presented, and done. Next helmet life. Thanks for sharing. Cheers.
Best moto series on youtube, change my mind.
(With possible exception for FortNine)
Great work as always.
Love your channel. Dave on the soap box had me rolling with laughter. Keep up the great content.
Awesome video, well done and explained!
I think I'm about to set the record here: I have the 600cc version of Dave, albeit in near showroom perfect condition vs. street art and rainbow bear stickers. The previous owner rode it to college for a couple of years and then started riding very rarely and stored the bike in their climate controlled house as basically a living room ornament. The tires are currently about 13 years old but I cannot find anything wrong with them to merit changing them. My wife has an identical year model bike (it was one I had looked at when buying mine and she decided she wanted it) with the same Michelin Pilot Power tires (though hers are 2CT, but that only affects leaned over grip anyway) and I really don't feel a difference between the two. Interestingly, her bike had a much newer but very dry rotted rear tire when we first bought it, which goes to show how much storage affects the life since my bike was stored in air conditioning and her bike's previous owner rode it to work and probably parked it outside and then stored it in a non-climate controlled shed. IMO, more than age is just looking at the tire and testing the grip. Is the surface full of cracks, especially deep ones? When you brake hard in a straight line, does it bite hard or try to slip (talking front brake, rear brakes will always lock without ABS if stomped hard enough)? Honestly, if it's not cracked and grip is there, the tire is still good, I can't find any instance of a modern (say, last 20 years) tire that didn't have obvious signs of dry rot having a blow out or a crash that was truly the fault of the tire and not the result of a bad rider input. The 5-10 year rule probably dates back to the 70's or before when tires were made of garbage materials compared to what they are made with today. Times change, just like new synthetic oil vs old conventional.
How do you know the grip is there until you test that grip? I had a front a grarage fitted that was about 5 years old and it was ok In The dry, but as soon as it was a bit damp on the road it was lethal. Letting go in straights under mild breaking sometimes. I had so many close calls and eventually the bike let go in a car park after a downpour at walking pace. I wish I had kicked up more fuss with the garage considering it wasn't even the manufacturer I asked for let alone the model of tyre, I think they just took the opportunity to get rid of old stock as my bike at the time had a less common wheel size.. assholes
@@jimstartup2729 The shortest answer: dry grip=/=wet grip, full stop
While I avoid deliberately riding in the rain, I did once get caught out in the rain with these tires and they weren't really any better or worse than the probably less than one year old Q3+s I had on a track day that erupted into rain.
The siping design and compound choice of dry summer tires or track day tires and rain tires are drastically different. True track tires or slicks like to be north of like 170 F and summer/dry street tires like to be north of 120 F. Imagine riding down the road on a 50 degree day through water that is also 50 degrees with a high specific heat, that tire's not going to get even close much less stay at 120 F. A wet tire, on the other hand, not only has far more siping to prevent hydroplaning, but also has a compound designed for grip at lower temperatures. I don't know what tire you had, but most likely it was a combination of not enough siping and not enough heat combining to create a slippery situation. Sometimes pavement is also slippery from oil/dust/etc. loosened up by the fresh rainwater and will make it slippery on any tire.
You also may have been too forceful and sudden with inputs as braking and cornering needs to be more gentle and progressive in low grip situations when you can get away with it in warmer dry conditions. Bottom line, there's about a dozen things more likely to have made your front tire feel slippery and being 5 years old likely had nothing to do with it. The only way that 5 year old tire should've been bad is if it was left out in the sun and elements for 5 years and possibly frozen a couple of times to boot. Knee jerking to blaming equipment keeps people from progressing at riding and getting a better understanding of the physics involved. It's no different than the guy that bangs off the rev limiter doing a burnout for 5 minutes and then blames his blown engine on the last guy to change the oil.
@@nunyabusiness896 yes... Sudden Inputs... I now have 27 years of motorcycle experience under my belt, and that is year round riding not just dry summer days and tracks. I know how greasy a road can be on the first rain after a while, I know what mud, gravel, leaves, over-banding, drain covers, painted lines, petrol, diesel, cut grass, plastic bags, glass and even small animals are like to drive over, hell I even rode on and around snow and ice back when I was at college before I got my car license. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to any motorcyclist that has likely covered more than 500 miles of riding in the UK (you will get caught I the rain). I never fully trusted that front end, so never pushed it that hard in the dry, but with normal commute riding edging towards spirited, there were no "moments" to make you think it was going to let go, but there was very very little wet weather performance, and the tyre did actually have a fairly aggressive tread cut. Personally I genuinely think the rubber was way past it's best and my experiences with how shocking it was in the wet lie only with that one tyre. When it let go I was following another chap on a bike and had several chaps behind me all in a line.. in a car park so yeah probably a bit greasy, but it was almost walking pace, and it dropped like it was on ice. Some of the other times it was similar, no progression just letting go very very easily. The number of let-go moments with that tyre I had on separate occasions.. separate roads etc puts any road condition reasoning to bed, and as for warmth... I am talking much less grip than I would ever expect out of a cold tyre. It was prob older than 5 years old mind you,as I think you couldn't even buy that model of tyre off the shelf anymore (I looked it up cos I was miffed by them fitting it, since I specifically requested certain tyres. Unfortunately I was pushed for time and needed my bike as transport so they got away with it without any real complaint - which I guess happens rather a lot)
I would also add. I am an Engineer by education at least (ok I changed profession some years back) so it is not like I have little understanding of mechanical forces or materials. My point is merely.. a very old tyre might be fine, but it might also have some very degraded performance characteristics that are not immediately obvious.
I do "test" my grip fairly regularly in a straight line (every few weeks or so) both to prove the equipment and keep my emergency stops sharp. It's a worthy routine. I think my reason for that does stem from experiences like that tyre.. I like to prove grip is there before betting my life on it.
Saw you guys at buttonwillow with Dave and have been waiting for this video!
How much does a buttonwillow track day cost?
@@smoke05s It was $180 for that day, it was a Monday
Thankyou - an excellent tutorial. I learnt plenty.
i'm not a biker, so I don't know why I enjoy watching your and fortnines channel so much. but it might be because you two are so informative and thurough on you research so it is interesting even to I don't ride bikes.
this video tho applies to cars aswell. I own a rare classic car, off which I don't drive much and we have a similar misconception in the car community that no tire is good for more than 5 years whilst I have with my chemist background thought that environment plays the biggest role when it comes to tire life. I have been such a firm believer that I use anti uv and anti oxidant tire wax on my classic car twice per month to keep the tires looking new and to make them last for longer
saw it with my own eyes. 4 year old Bridgestone cracked on the treads a few minutes after beading. probably not stored correctly but still, would you want to "take a risk" on how older tires were stored in some warehouse? i know i wouldn't
2 year old bt45s cracked pretty much everywhere
so yeah, its not just about the age
So I bought a used 1200 mile 2014 triumph daytona 675r. Stock everything. Tires lasted till 8k no problemo and im an aggressive rider 0 track days.
I've got a BMW f800gs 2014 on 1331 miles original everything. Even the pirelli scorpion trail tyres. They feel fine even in the wet. Always been in a nice cool dark garage. On carpet and sometimes on the centerstand
Thank you very much. I have been searching around for the same question
Props to the editing levelling up! As always, glad to have you do your thing Ari
The editor on this project, Stephen Gregory, put a lot of effort into his episode.
Would have been nice to see a comparison with a used 3-5 year old tire, or which was used at least a few times in the start and then stored away, like when you put the bike away for a few seasons.
Very informative and myth busting. Great episode, Ari.
I definitely learned a lot!! Thank you so much! Definitely subscribing
Most informative bike video I've seen in years. I did not know 90% of the information contained herein. Makes good sense now that some of my tires are better than others. On old age note, I had a set that was 14 years old, and tires did feel like hockey pucks, but who knows if brought to the track and heated properly, they still may have had some life left in them...
When test riding my fazer before I bought it, it had about seven years old tires on it, with almost new tread depth. It came like a shock when the rear tire started slipping on clean, dry tarmac at maybe 50% lean angle. So, yeah: old tires can be dangerous.
hey , you are comparing 7 years old tires were mounted on the bike and were in use for a time , he tested 7 years old but "new" tires . thats big difference
You guys mentioned getting a new set of old stock tyres.
What about having the tyres for such a long time past expiration? I bought two used cars which sat unused and uncared for for a long time, and they both had expired tyres. One of them was visibly dry and cracking, the other seemed ok but developed a puncture spontaneously in an unexpected spot.
Yea my car tire just ripped apart on the highway after a sudden full stop (due to accident) and the metal inside the tire was sticking out. My tire guy told me it was because they were 9 year old and the rubber was all stiff so it couldnt handle the sudden pressure, change in shape and heat
It's a storage issue for sure, having expirience with cars and bikes.
Had 6years old winter goodyears on my VW Golf and the back end broke out very soon eventhough they had plenty of profile, the tyres were 195 65 15inch with plenty side wall, but still they felt hard..
Then had 10year old summer Bridgestone om my MB W212 , made 25tousands Km with them, drove above 260km/h never had a traction issue.
Now have Michelins on my Honda Interceptor (12years old) really punching them in corners and straight, or Autobahn cornering 270km/h... Feels just good...no issues.
Just inspect your tyres for cracks and keep right tyre pressure and if you still dont trust them do a warm--up round find an open space and lean in to it while driving slowly see how she feels, otherwise replace it.
I bought a 2002 Honda VFR800 in 2019, with 10 year old Michelin Pilot Road 2 on it. The condition of the tires were too good to throw away so I rode them slowly to get a feeling for them. But I felt the same way as you, I couldn't find a weak spot. I didn't rode them on the track, but still fast on a windy road. I've ordered a new set of tires (just to have another pair) and believe it or not, the rubber of the new tires felt harder then the old tires! After this, I rode a whole day within a group of other bikers and after a fast lap, an unknown rider came to me and said that I was pretty fast on my bike. I answered: Well, don't you think these 10 year old tires still doing good. The expression on his face was priceless. :-D
Excellence subject and good testing.
I always suspect those "5-years-rule" are created by shops to sell more tires, and people getting scared when hearing stories from the shops
As a person who worked for motorcycle dealership, I was sure to check on what was the recommended interval on tire replacement. And since we worked mostly with Pirelli I followed their guidelines that mentioned 5 year warranty for tires to hold factory specs. I cannot point to a specific document, but I didn't just invent it. More so, I've had enough clients asking to replace their tires after 3 years...
My bike had 11 year old tires when I got it. They were definitely a hazard, as soon as I got new tires, I couldn't believe I had been riding on the old ones.
Edit: the bike only had a total of 4,000 miles, the tires still looked great. And the bike was mainly stored in their garage, they weren't subject to the sun and weather constantly.
Same for my first bike, the front tire was so hardened, it never went below the min thread… so I drove it for years. But it didnt stick on dry roads and on wet roads it was a nightmare. Shoulda just spent the money…
In my view old virgin tire is different from old worn tire. I swear the heat cycle from being used and kept for a long time I can feel my old weekend bike tire felt harder
@@flyinghigh2000 This is the point that this video is missing. I think mostly when people talk about a 5 year age limit they are referring to 5 years of use rather than being unused for 5 years and being put on.
@@coreymeisenheimer1724 that's basically what metzler has said about tires when they where talking about a slick I believe. I would think it would be due to the oils rising to the surface from heat cycles. But I'm not sure I believe that new tires don't age at all.
I put 5 year old new tires on my bike. The tires where stored in a heated garage in there plastic. They only had a tiny bit of slip whenever I was in the middle of a agressive downshift without a slipper clutch and a deer ran out in front of me and I basically popped the clutch out to 10k from idle to focus on braking. When they where 7 years old I replaced them at 20 percent tread because I didn't want to bring them out another season.
I got a Royal star (1300 V4)
the previous owner put a new tire on the back when he got it, 10 years prior, and he only rode the bike 2,000 miles in those 10 years.
The first time I had to stop quickly I was shocked at how easy the rear tire locked up! It skidded like it was made of black chalk.
Brand new tire a few weeks later - world of difference.
Interesting topic, thanks for covering this!
Great info and well presented thanks Ari 😀
The cracking of the sidewalls with age is my biggest concern, I've seen that occurring within 10 years. If you are riding conservatively any loss in traction may not be an issue, but cracks could result in tire failure. I have had a set of Avons crack in 5 years.
You can drive as conservatively as you want: A fresh set of tires might make the difference between an almost crash and a crash.
Especially on dirty roads or if you need to do hard cornering/braking in order to avoid crashing. Dont forget its not always you making the misstake.
So dont risk your health by cheaping out on your bikes maintenance.
@@Chris-yy7qc I agree, I keep my own tires fresh, because I want maximum safety, I was making a generalization that people need to check for tires cracking if they plan on keeping them long.
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Old Ride and Ride a Kawasaki Zxr14r
Limited addition it Maped and has
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Make use of the Headers 209 Hp At the back
Wheel , do I use the power , just ask
Some young blokes when I clime of
You don't forget how to ride just because
You get older , Smooth and Fast and what
You alluded to Tyres I Run Bridgestone
S22 , I Change Front and back at the same
Time 6000 -7000 Km , that the Key as you
Said there already saved you , many times
How can you afford the TYRE'S , I had said
To me , My answer is not about $ It
About YOUR Safety . I don't swap Bikes
TO try them out , one reason is I be Tradeing
Down , THE big KAWASAKI Is still in my
Mind the Best bike for me , but most of
Important I don't trust other people
With there bikes maintenance and Tyres
@@markjones464 You're right, sir!
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Our ages , I loved to be young in
Age again , you displayed a a lot
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Tyres , I stoped at stops while I
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Who should know Better , Bold
And tyres not up to standard , I
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It life and Death could be the
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All the Best 👍 Stay safe
A lot of people rave about FortNine, and I get it, it's entertaining and well produced, but the Shop Manual is a show that's both educational AND practical without being long winded, and that, in my book, takes the prize. Keep up the good work.
I came back to riding about six months ago. I rode from 92 to 2014 and I was doing about 135 and all of a sudden this yellow hale was blown all around me and I couldn't see anything for about ten to fifteen seconds, so my heart is racing and I'm breaking and down shifting as fast and as steady as I can. It turned out to be an open back truck that blew straw all around me for whatever reason. My son was 13 at the time and when I got out of there I said "No way" ..."I'm selling the bike" and I did. Now he's a young man and I feel a bit more mature on a bike but I can't say I've completely kicked the adrenaline habit. Love your channel. Mike.
Thank you for doing this hard but very much needed research ! 👌👍💪
on my car i had 14 year old continental summer tires and they were totaly fine very grippy and i had 6 year old off-brand winter tires that were sliding all over uncontrollably, and a seemingly trustworthy dude who works in a tire mounting shop also told me in summer its whatever you just need to care about age on winter tires, so thats what i've been doing since, just got some new hankook winter tires that are just one month old dont have any snow yet but in heavy rain they grip awesome
Also have 13 years old Goodyear tires on my Pontiac Solstice which I bought month ago, so far so good...
During the winter tread is more important and rubber won't get hot and sticky.
I wonder how this test would go on wet surface
How about storage in winter temps? My bike sits in a barn during 4 months of freezing temperatures. 2 months of that is below freezing at night and above freezing during the day. Does this fluctuation and sub-zero temps also contribute to hardening or cracking of the rubber?
Speargun rubber gets kept in the freezer. Your winter is probably advantageous.
Best SM video yet. Very excellent content.
Thanks for making this informative and interesting video
I'm quite conservative when it comes to tires having learned it the hard way, I have to disagree a bit with the findings of this video. Of course how it's stored, sunlight, temperature, first date of use, tire brand/model, all make a big difference...no disputing that. It seems like a lot of others express similar findings. I feel like having the best case scenario for tires that are brand new and stored properly isn't a good representation of how most tires age, particularly tires that are used and already on a bike. Even though these are hypersport tires, they're not track tires and so I'm sure on a hot day/track the feeling of degradation of the dried out rubber is going to be much less. Maybe the dried out rubber will even aid somewhat to an extent in this street tires' heat capacity so it doesn't overheat as easily on the track!
Important to note, that a huge contributing factor to the highly publicized death of Paul Walker and Roger Rodas, a professional race car driver, who was driving is that the tires on the car were 9 years old!
If you've ever had old tires (not particularly worn out) and then had them replaced, there is a profound difference in how they feel. I also think that certain tires models/brands age significantly worse than other.
Bottom line, if the tires are old and don't inspire confidence, get them changed! Every tire ages differently, don't take the risk. It's the single most important "mechanical" part on your bike.
For me, real life experience with many, many tires, especially on older and used bikes (perhaps more than you'd encounter on press bikes) says that 5 years is an excellent rule for tires. I'd change them out sooner too if the tires don't feel right. They get this slight icey kind of feeling with not just less grip, but they will suddenly snap and break loose extremely quickly. That's what old tires can be like!
Also, just another aside. The advanced riding clinic by Lee Parks gives much lower time lines for tire wear and break it down by tire type. 2 years for sport tires, 3 years for sport touring tires, and 4 years for touring/cruiser tires.
Really hope everyone exercises caution here!
My thoughts exactly. I worry that Revzilla using the very specific example of a completely unused tire that's been properly stored for 7 years is going to be used to justify the (much more common) case of tires that were initially used for a few hundred miles and have been sitting "drying out" for 8-10 years since.
I've had 22 year old tyre on my bike, my riding style is a mix of commuting and hard riding and those tyres felt great, didn't have an issue with them. I always check the tyres I get before they go on my bike first
@@NOONE-hp8bw which tires? Did you read the date code correctly? It changed about 20 years ago
Thank you so much for this great, useful comment, MotoBoy.
2 years for sport tires? You will be changing them before you get them mounted.
Okay....so the rubber can last longer than 5 years. But what about heat cycling? Isn't there a limit of cycles that tires can go through before they lose traction, (even for street tires)?
Not sure about what, if any, effect sensible heat cycling would have on vulcanized rubber but I suppose the number of heat cycles are related to tread wear. Since tires most often are put out of service due to tread wear, the heat cycling probably is the lesser issue
Certainly yes. The traction doesn't just fall off a cliff, it degrades slowly day by day. Heat cycle by heat cycle
You aren't heat cycling them without riding them. So, I would imagine by the time they are bad from heat cycling they are already worn out.
@@JoshuaTootell not true. Heat cycling occurs simply sitting in the sun or even in your garage with the temperature variation from day to night
@@DearMajesty you have stepped on a slippery slope . How much temperature change is required to accomplish one heat cycle. 20'f range cold to hot or 70' or 100' I work with materials that require a change of 3000' f to achieve one cycle. Anything less stays unchanged, or no cycle .
I think you definitely have to consider your environment. I live in Yuma AZ with extreme heat and sunshine. I wouldn’t ride a set over 5 years much less 7 or 10. Usually 2-3 years and you will start to see cracking in the sidewalls and in some cases in between the tread. After testing numerous tire brands on several different motorcycles we have found for our environment, Michelin Commander II/III all others will scrub of in the summer with 5-6k miles. My current commander III rear tire has 18,000 miles on it with 32nd left still. That’s on a HD Ultra Classic CVO. Anyway, just my 3 cents… keep up the great work!
I ride the tires off my bikes in Tucson. Your 100% right about the Michelin Commanders- great tires.
This was very helpful to me. THANK YOU. 👍🏽
I felt so proud when Dave passed that Ducati lmao
Ninja H2 is the best commuter
XD
Great video, thanks for the information.
Air doesn't look to jazzed about these episodes but I freaking love these. Thanks for the information.
I went to view a new (to me) bike last week. The tyres were date coded march 2017 (6 years old almost) they were hard and shiny, and I couldn’t dig my fingernail in, not a chance I would have ridden on them in our damp winters. Tyres don’t necessarily expire with age, but tyres that have been exposed to sun and weather? I’ll bet Ari won’t risk a tack day on them 😉
Excellent video, very informative. Thank you👍
Excellent advice and thank you
I weep everytime i see the paintjob they smashed onto Dave.
Like an old pit bull wearing it's permanent scars. Thankfully Dave found a good home.
Funny that this video came out just now. Switching to winter tires for our usual 8 months of snow, noticed my car tires had tons of tread depth left, but were made in 2011. Cracks noticed on tires, too. Good thing they're tiny and relatively cheap to replace
I just purchased a 2010 sporty, with only 4800 miles. The owner kept the original tires on them, dated Nov. ‘09. The bike has been garage kept all these years, but both front and rear had significant cracks along the sidewalls. The heat in Miami is no joke.
Cool stuff!
Thanks for looking into that!