Something that also sort of bugs me about the love triangle backlash is that it seems to carry with it this idea that romance is inherently frivolous. There are some romances that are just meant to be cheap fun and that's fine, in the same way a lot of action movies are just cheap fun with nothing to say and that's also fine. Romance plots can be just for fun but they can also be used as a way to say something with real significance. Some of the best books of all time are, when you break it down, about whether or not two people kiss.
But tbf, in THG specifically, it really isn't a romance. Katniss explicitly doesn't have any romantic interest in either of them for the majority of the series.
I truly don’t mind Gale as a character. Often, I am even fond of him. I just don’t like him with Katniss. He feels so entitled to her liking him back that he doesn’t even give her space to figure out her feelings most of the time. He’s so so mean to her any time she talks about Peeta, or any other dude for that matter. Including her relationship with Haymitch and Finnick. Weirdo behavior
I think it’s also important to consider their ages in this instance. These characters are 16 at the beginning of the series and 18-19 by the end (I think?). They’re so young. That a 17 year old boy would get jealous of his best friend/crush finding a support system outside of him when before all they had was each other isn’t that surprising. I also think before the games Katniss and Gale were so similar in their world views and I don’t think Gale knew how to handle her coming out of the games a different person. And I’m not adding this to say you have to like Gale. I just wanted to add another perspective!
@@IndiaMyers Yeah I definitely get why he feels his very big and new feelings, and like I said, I don’t dislike him. I just have never wanted him and Katniss to end up together, you know?
I also think trauma plays a huge role. Katniss responded to losing her father by becoming extremely distant, but it’s likely Gale responded to the trauma of losing his father (and then his best friend getting sent off to the Hunger Games and then watching his entire town get destroyed) by becoming far too attached and jealously guarding those close to him. It’s not great, but it makes sense
Agreed. I was not online a lot when I first read the series so I didn’t know that so many people disliked Gale. I didn’t dislike Gale, I just did not think he was good for Katniss. I was definitely Team Peeta. I didn’t even blame him for Prim’s death per se.
So glad someone sees Gale like I do. I ultimately feel like Peeta is the person Katniss needed, but I've never outright hated Gale. He's a protector and a freedom fighter who is passionately against the Hunger Games and the brutality of the Capitol. He has been exposed to violence his entire life and has an intense motive for justice. I never read the books so I'm going by the movies here, but the turning point I believe for Gale where the line between justice and vengeance starts to blur was the carpet bombing of District 12. The PTSD of witnessing the genocide of his District and the survivors guilt of not being able to save more people could easily make anyone see red and want to bring down the oppressive force by any means necessary. Not to mention Gale is barely out of his teens at this point so of course he's not going to be the most mature person in the world and is impressionable, too. That doesn't excuse his missteps or take away from the fact that he has to deal with the consequences but to vilify him for not being the "perfect victim" of a fascist regime, in my opinion, just lacks any nuance whatsoever. People have every right to not like Gale or the love triangle, but the way people talk about him as if he's somehow worse than President Snow is so unjustified imo
I also think Gale is instrumental in the ‘will they won’t they’ of it all in the Katniss/Peeta relationship to carry us through the three books. After the first book, the two of them don’t really have a reason to not just be a couple. They’ve trauma bonded on this unique level, they still have a good rapport and do cute things like laying in bed together to comfort one another when they experience nightmares. We see Katniss’ perspective of the main ‘won’t they’ talking point, she questions how much of their romance was real and how much of it was an act to survive a life-threatening situation, and she’s too stoic and tbh socially awkward to just have a conversation with him about it in private. But it doesn’t really make sense for Peeta to not just go for it. He’s a pretty direct person throughout the series and not afraid to say what he feels so why doesn’t he just talk to her? That’s where Gale comes in. Peeta’s reasons for questioning the authenticity of their relationship lies in the fact that, outwardly, Katniss seems to have this other thing going with another guy, someone she’s known basically her whole life and someone she’s always hanging out with. It makes sense that he would perceive that as the real relationship and his as just a fabrication for the cameras.
as a gale TRUTHER, i must also add that people very often acting like peeta and katniss' trauma is the only one that matters and that gale was not respecting of that is not only false but also completely dismisses the fact that he's traumatized as well, as everyone from the districts to a certain level. in the real world, i think we're much more likely to find gales than peetas.
RIGHT people talk so much shit about Gale and I’m like…did you forget he watched his entire village die while he fought tooth and nail to get as many people out as he could? Of course he’s angry beyond belief, he’s been fucking broken. Obviously what he did was monstrous, but…that’s sometimes the consequences of breaking people like that. Sometimes traumatized people turn into cold addicts like Haymitch, sometimes they turn suicidal/homicidal like Katniss, sometimes they lose who they were like Peeta, and sometimes they become destroyers like Gale. And obviously we know that the descriptors I used for Katniss, Peeta, and Haymitch are only a fraction of their stories and who they are, but people don’t seem to have the ability to realize that when it comes to Gale
I just spent the day with my 13-year-old niece and 12 of her friends, and I was blown away by the fact that they were all talking about The Hunger Games. Those books came out when I was around their age and the fact that they are still so culturally relevant today among young people is a true testament to how well-written and timeless the story is.
I think his philosophy and actions in war are understandable and always have, but I still can’t stand him as an actual love interest. The way he treats Katniss throughout the story, always concerned with his place in her heart rather than what she’s going through as a person is pretty gross honestly. Especially for someone who understands the trauma the capital can inflict like he does.
i’ve never minded love triangles but i never considered the potential for deeper story within them. framing the love triangle as a way for a character to determine their values is kind of genius. the way you described it not working as well with platonic friendships changed my point of view on gale’s role in the series (and romantic vs. platonic relationships in media in general). i used to see gale’s romance plot as superfluous and felt it could’ve been left as a friendship without changing the story much. but making it a romance raises the stakes. friends can live apart, partners often can’t. having katniss decide a life partner goes along with her deciding what she believes and how she wants to live. i’m eager to reread with this added perspective, great video!
@@mpGreen03 Completely agree. I think it's people assuming it's going to be bad because it's made for girls since the MC is a girl, which are both complete non sequiturs, obviously. I love watching people react to the movies, but a common consensus I see with male viewers is that they say they never watched it because they assumed it would be bad and overly romantic. When they watch it now, they're surprised at its depth and violence - as if the premise isn't about children murdering each other.
I remember watching that review at the time (as an impressionable tween), and being so hurt and confused by it. It's stuck with me ever since just how willfully ignorant YMS was being. I was so happy when Julia started going in on that dogshit review and would watch a whole video of her doing just that.
So the books came out in my early 20s and this is fascinating because from my view, every conversation was about how Peeta was the boring choice. You say he doesn't need a defense, but he did!
Assuming you’re also in the same age group where you read them a year or so before the movies came out, I think a lot of that perception had to do with the movies reshaping out perspective with hindsight. On top of casting Liam Hemsworth, an actor with a lot of charisma and natural chemistry with Jennifer Lawrence, the translation from page to screen I think makes it a bit more explicit that Katniss and Peeta’s dynamic has more to do with mutual circumstance than emotional connection.
gale is because gale matters ❤ i was happy with katniss and peeta but i never understood the hatred for gale, i thought it was pretty obvious that gale wasn't a villain in the end but just wasn't right for katniss ideologically, and that choosing peeta was a more thematically relevant ending. but i'm from a tiny town and never saw any of the public reception when it came out, and realizing how conflated the love triangle was with twilight in the media and the misogyny towards both makes it make sense.
Its very interesting to me also that readers generally sympathise with Effie and even Cesear (In some circles) and recognise how their ignorance did directly harm others and was also a product of their environment yet hold so much anger for Gale. To me this says something we have heard before that with privilege comes the freedom to make greater mistakes and be forgiven. We so often do this in day-to-day; that is, to be hesitant to blame the person committing the atrocities and quick to blame the oppressed for reacting. I don’t even want to hear anyone say its because they liked Prim because they didn't and they don't. Gale did bad things. He’s also fictional. Can we please stop.
thank you so much for this, he was a traumatized teenager with his best friend ripped away from him as a toy for his oppressors. not a manic serial killer as people love to make him out to be
loved this! like you mentioned, i think there’s something to be said about how westerners especially, view fiction as the same thing as actual political theory. many ppl in the west can seemingly only view real life horrors perpetuated by our & other governments through the lens of science fiction. yes art is powerful & can make meaningful statements about “society” (lol) but that should never replace nonfiction theory which seeks to solely educate not entertain. conflating the two does more harm than good & muddies the role of art in any sort of political upheaval. sometimes it’s okay to get serious. everything does not need to be packaged in the context of a fictional story in order for you to care. this is why i roll my eyes when ppl take george orwell’s shtick as gospel. we can do better sociopolitical analysis than that of an 8th grader writing a book report cmon now! p.s i am a formal love triangle anti but i am willing to meet you in the middle on this one miss cudney
Fiction is a good gateway, but I agree that if you really want to talk seriously then you gotta delve into non-fiction. Fiction can give you the philosophy without the baggage. Making up alien races or fictional countries with weird governments gives you the basis of the ideas with some distances from your real world bias. If you want to really get into though, you have to confront the real world baggage as well.
love triangles are actually really popular I think people just don't call them that when they like em. a lot of Very Real Literature is about people having affairs
I liked Gail when I originally read the books and was surprised that katniss didn’t want some one with “fire” like I knew she liked peeta but …after rereading as an adult like it made so much more sense to me why she wanted peeta more because it was more clear to me the love she had for him
Thank you for sharing this video. Reflecting on my younger days, while I was firmly “Team Peeta,” I also found Gale to be an intriguing character. I could see how Gale could have been a compelling romantic interest if Suzanne Collins had chosen to explore that path. It’s interesting how some critics of those who desire more books or movies in The Hunger Games series accuse them of glorifying or misunderstanding the source material. However, I would argue that it's the widespread disdain for Gale (and by extension the love triangle) that actually reflects a lack of understanding of the depth of the story. While I don’t believe one has to be “Team Gale” or agree with his choices, I find it troubling when people fail to empathize with the oppressed and expect Gale to conform to a “perfect victim” archetype, devoid of moral ambiguity. Ultimately, the series prompts readers to question their own moral compasses and consider what they would do in similar circumstances. If Katniss had chosen Gale’s path, driven by a belief in the ends justifying the means, would it be fair to blame her? Would her departure from the “perfect victim” mold make her less likable?
My thing is that I’m not totally against more hunger games books but I only want them when Collins has something to say I do not want this cash cow to become a true cash cow when she has something to say and does it through another hunger games book I will gladly read but until then I am content with what we have
Absolutely agree. When Ballad was announced to be about Snow people were complaining she was going to justify him or make him a hero and I was rolling my eyes the entire time because HOW would Suzanne Collins forget her own politics or the themes of her own series. Ballad made it clear she had a lot to say about where the American political sphere is right now, it felt cathartic to read and was clearly a commentary on the state of young men being radicalized and "red-pilled" and the slippery slope of allowing ambition to cloud your judgement and allow you to justify a status quo that actively harms and oppresses people, shaping your ability to look the other way or even actively participate if it benefits you personally. Collins is not stupid, anything she chooses to write will be thoughtful, passionate, and wise.
Omg thank you for bringing up YMS’s review! I was a subscriber of his when that video came out and was so annoyed by it I unsubscribed. It lives in my head rent free
If anyone wants to know when she starts talking about Gale's role in the story, it's 20:36. I do however recommend you stick around for the beginning because the vintage facebook roleplay is truly something to behold
I stopped watching YMS when I watched a Twilight watch party and they were not engaging with the material at ALL, just criticizing it from the outskirts. One of the guys kept trying to explain the lore to them, but it was obvious they didn't want to actually pay attention to the material. Very obnoxious
Gale is an interesting character and vital to serve as a sort of foil to Katniss. Their exchange in Mockingjay: "You of all people should know it's not personal" coming from Gale, versus "I of all people know it's always personal" coming from Katniss. They both have fundamentally different understandings of killing and violence. Gale believes the ends justify the means and Katniss doesn't. I also agree that good love triangles always present each of the love interests as representing different life paths and ideologies the main character can choose. To choose Gale or Peeta is also to choose a life path and a course for your future that will be radically different between either of the boys. I'm a fan of love triangles because they're such a strong multi-use tool that can develop the characters, the world, and insights into their choices all at once.
having trouble focusing cause your HAIR is serving SO HARD 😍 but also your vocabulary is lightyears ahead of mine & I was in English Honors in high school so it’s quite challenging to keep up anyway (since I don’t read…ever) BUT i very much enjoy hearing you talk about literally anything regardless 😊
gale represented war and wanted revenge, peeta represented peace and wanted to heal. after all the war and fighting katniss has lived through, it's obvious which kind of life she would choose.
I've always found Gale compelling and a key part of the story, even if he's always frustrated me. But he is supposed to, to be fair to him. Another thing that makes him see even less justified is the fact that Gale never loses anyone to the war. Gale's family survives the destruction of District 12. Peeta's whole family is killed and Katniss loses Prim. He has suffered, but he hasn't faced loss in the same way Peeta and Katniss have. Gale has always struck me as wanting to have been in Katniss's position of being the face of the revolution. He wants to be a hero whereas Peeta and Katniss were thrust into those roles despite wanting to live simple lives. With Gale, I think Collins is presenting a person who uses the justification of war to have the hero journey they've always yearned for. But the problem with believing yourself as a hero, is that you have to have villains and you never have to treat them humanely. It's telling that Peeta and Katniss return to District 12 whereas Gale never returns and moves to District 2, a district we know Careers used to live. In war, Gale found purpose whereas, for Peeta and Katniss, war was the obstacle to finding meaning and purpose. Great video! I immediately clicked when I saw the topic lol.
As someone who did a lot of role play back in the day I had no idea Facebook rp with your reaal name (just joining groups) was a thing. I am shocked absolutely would’ve died lmao
I always feel like i always love the most disliked characters the most 😭 i was a gale girlie, loved sakura haruno, sansa stark, skyler white. i watch/read stuff in my bubble and then go online and find out my most beloved are despised. 😩
I love everything about this video, truly. What still bothers me about the movies though is that Peeta is an amputee for most of the plot, but he isn’t portrayed as such on screen. I still can’t shake the feeling that production didn’t trust the target audience to still find a disabled person “hot enough” (or it really was all about budget, in which case - investment in movies explicitly for girls/women hasn’t really been commendable either), when that’s just demonstrably untrue. Exhibit A being the Hunger Games, except only on paper
once i realized my biggest issue with gale was that my mind instantly pictured him as the other hemsworth who plays him in the movie a lot changed for me..
Tying into the question of "why are so many love triangles bad, but this one isn't?", I think that it's significant that most of the truly annoying love triangles (at least in my opinion) are either in sequels, or they've been added into an adaptation/story that didn't originally have one. The result is a bunch of love triangles that feel like plot-fillers that were only slapped on to pad out the story. In the hunger games, however, the romantic conflict is tightly tied into the themes and plot.
I definitely agree with you on the importance of Gale in the narrative (and deeply appreciate your love of the book series, it's really wonderful) but I still think Gale really... could use some improvements! I just don't find him to be a particularly interesting character; I understand where his anger comes from and I wouldn't change that, but he just doesn't really have relationships with any other character besides Katniss the way that Peeta does so we really only see like. Two sides of him (angry pining after Katniss and wanting to destroy the Capital). Peeta has his turbulent relationship with his family, his mentor relationships with Haymitch and Effie, a past childhood friendship with Delly Cartwright, his interactions with the other Tributes, etc etc the list goes on. Gale we only ever see interacting with Katniss (and I still think he's mostly a jealous jerk to in the majority of their screen time) and like... Beetee in the third book? Maybe some of the other soldiers from District 13? He never actually see him having any cute interactions with his three little siblings or his mother, or even with Prim who he's known for years and who he's said to be keeping an eye on when Katniss isn't there. He just ends up feeling like kind of a shallow character compared to Peeta, who is much fuller and richer.
I understand what you mean, to me he was a compelling character. But I feel like we didn't get to see this since it was only from Katniss point of view. Majority of her time was spend in the games or preparing for the games, so we mostly saw characters like Haymitch, Peeta and Cinna which whom she spend more time with. Even Prim and Katniss mother we didn't get to really know them because Katniss didn't always interact with with them. Most of the stuff we know are through her memories. So yeah that's kinda the downside of having a 1person pov
@@naomi7918 I do think that's part of it, but we don't really have that problem with a lot of other characters seen from Katniss' pov. Catching Fire would have been great to just show him having casual relationships with other people in Twelve, but I feel like that's actually when Gale is at his least engaging because he ONLY interacts with Katniss and it's usually to snip at her. He's better in Mockingjay because I think Collins realized he was a little aggressive (we do get some nice enough conversations in the mess hall between him and other characters) but tbh I kind of get the impression that she just doesn't like him that much as a character lol; he feels so underexplored compared to everyone else.
@@Winterpelt Honestly I don't think he's the only one. What do we know about Cinna, Effie, Wiress, Annie, Johanna etc. other than the things the capitol did to them and their interaction with Katniss. From some of them we don't even know their last name. From what Gale mentioned in the books, he seemed to be a full fleshed character with his own life besides Katniss. I really think that because of this pov we get to mss out on a lot of characters personalities. And honestly, storewide it makes sense, because it would be impossible for Katniss to know everything about everyone, but that's just my opinion.
!!!!!! been waiting for this since you first talked about it on twitter. the serialized nature of the books is a huge part of it too; when i first read mockingjay in middle school my brain simply refused to incorporate gale's characterization there into the fictional character i had a crush on. i refuse to accept judgement from tiktokkers who read all three books in a week.
Ive never liked gale but I understood the necessity of his character, how he participates in driving his world and society into revolution and what he represents.
Love the video and I so agree! As an adult who has approached THG w a new perspective my friends and I have been defending the love triangle for its thematic relevance for a while now. It’s existence is perfectly coherent w/ the story. But as a petty Everlarker, it is funny when ppl dunk on Gale & I got a lot of joy from Nathan Zed’s video years ago. The quote “If you are team gale, you are a barbarian” STILL lives in my head rent free, I think it’s so funny, and he was ahead of the curve (and I still can’t get over Sarah Z being team Gale). I think part of my dislike of Gale is that at the peak of THGs popularity, from my admittedly annecdotal experience, Gale was usually the more popular choice of the two guys b/c he does fit that more typical tortured tall dark and handsome role & I wanted more ppl to appreciate Peeta! I actually think Peeta is very atypical for a romantic hero bc he isn’t this hypermasc guy, and I really love that about him. I appreciate Gale for what he’s doing w the story, but I agree w/ some other voiced sentiments that he’s not particularly good as a partner for Katniss. But he provides an important perspective in contrast to Peeta. That being said, maybe I’m being a hater but I think Liam hemsworth is utterly bland and forgettable as Gale. It’s not rly his fault. Imo it just screamed a very hollywood decision to cast a conventionally good looking white guy for the sake of playing up the desirability factor of the love triangle. But he’s just not that charismatic. Even as a person who doesn’t love Gale, he just feels very flat in the movie & it makes the unevenness of the love triangle more apparent. Like. I think the movies didn’t compel me at all to desire or choose the theme he was selling which is the fire to peeta’s dandelion. I feel like. Even if you or Katniss don’t choose Gale, you should still be compelled by him. And I never was. With the release of TBOSAS the book I remember feeling very resentful that we were getting a villain origin story, and in retrospect I honestly am sorry to miss collinz that I did not give her enough credit. I thought it was gonna be a sympathetic villain backstory type of deal but it’s very clear panem as a playground to explore her philosophical & political ruminations on war is just as sharp as ever. I didn’t trust her and I should have. Honestly I’m in complete agreement w you that if she has more stories to tell w/in that universe, I welcome it.
I've always been a gale anti but I'm willing to listen because it's coming from you (p.s. your hair looks especially beautiful today I'm a little jealous cause I just cut mine lol)
This video literally made me go pull out my old International Relations textbooks from my undergrad to go refresh on Just War Theory and I spent an hour re-reading and taking notes. I think this is part of what Collins is trying to do with these books and the love triangle - lead into a bigger political idea. Most people are not going to read these (prohibitively expensive!) textbooks steeped in assumed knowledge (that frankly I didn't even always understand at the time). But these novels give you a taste of these ideas, prompt you to think about it. I think some of the staunch anti-Gale posts show this, to an extent: lots of them take a very strong stance on attitudes to violence and resistance without necessarily taking in the whole picture or critically reflecting on the "counter-narrative" (my old professor loved this phrase) which is what the argument on the other side could be.
Sending this to my very passionately anti Gale buddy to further our ongoing debate, it'll be fun. Thanks for putting all my thoughts into words way better than I could!
I love David Levithan and his influence on YA publishing over the last two to three decades can never be understated but I had no idea he worked on THG or edited for Collins, crazy how big his impact is. Icon.
honestly. insanely. as i've gotten older, i find myself defending gale more. their relationship is so so tragic. they meant so much to each other, and yet they're no longer in each other's lives, and it's sad and important.
I worked at a video rental store at the tail end of Twilight fever and at the height of Hunger Games fever. The Hunger Games love triangle was absolutely marketed identically to what they did with Twilight. And the merchandise marketing was even more aggressive.
I still hate gale, but I am glad you laid this argument out in this way, because despite my hate, I still understand where he's coming from, and I sympathize with him when he's talking about District 12 in Mockingjay. HOWEVER...he's still a shitty person😅
once in a hungergames rp i killed of both my guys and someone dmed me if we can continue cuz i was like the only one NOT doing romance stuff and she dint have a romance parter and just wanted me back so e can build more traps oh 2014 rps how i miss u
this was so well thought-out, and thank you for the link in the description too! i actually had no idea about that yms video, i had only watched his high-profile stuff which i usually agreed with and even though it's from a while back it's still disappointing to hear.
also, don't feel bad about your hunger games rp because my brother and i wrote 'satirical' rpf hunger games fanfiction when we were kids and it's the most unfunny thing to ever exist
Fan-freaking-tastic video, Julia. It starts off so silly and entertaining, yet ends with a truly thought through analysis. Thank God you're not illiterate ♡
With my recent reread of Hunger Games and rewatch of the films, I've come to recognise Gale's significance and what he represents. I still get annoyed by him as a character, I strongly dislike a lot of his attitudes towards Katniss personality-wise (you know, with the whole jealous 'why dont you want to run away with just me?' and refusing food and money for his starving family out of pride bs) but I know he has his purpose. I always felt the romance was the weakest part of the series, (granted I'm ace so I'm biased) but I know that Peeta and Gale have their significance in showing the ideologies Katniss can align herself with. As much as I have and will continue to roll my eyes at him to the point where a few lines and Liam Hemsworth's jawline serves as his only saving grace for me, I can't deny that the series just wouldn't be the same without him. You're right to remind us of that, he's a perfect illustration of the sort of person who could be bred from this sort of world (and also a good source to illustrate the stuff Katniss didn't experience, i.e, the bombing of 12). I still hate him, though.
i tried to watch this while I was oil pulling (holding coconut oil in my mouth) and i laughed so hard at your role-playing that I spit the oil all over my bed
As someone who wasn't all that invested in the love aspect of the hunger games, I always found a lot of the discourse around Gale to quite shallow and woefully unsympathetic. Like I get it, most of these people come at him as a rival to their main boy and aren't meaning a real harm, but still. Gale to me has always read as a cautionary tale of victims of oppression. This is what happens to alot of boys who grow up in war and tyranny, they get angry and seek revenge to do whatever they can to never go back to that life again. Idk, he isn't my favorite either but for so many to declare he wasn't needed is quite disappointing because it's always been clear what Suzanne was intending with him. I found him more so sad than anything else. Also, this is why I wish they'd cast people of color, particularly indigenous actors for the movies because that allegory would hit even harder when put with that historical context. Loved this video Julia, really missed around here.
Yes, I always wished they didn’t cast white people for Katniss, Gale and Haymitch. People always argue and say ‘it doesn’t say they aren’t white, just that they have an olive skin tone’ but from what we read from the books… it seems pretty clear they are indigenous and Peeta who’s a merchant is white and the divide with that in their districts between seam and merchant is all lost in the movies. I think it would’ve added way more if they casted actors that represented these characters more
I also think Gale hate has gone too far, people don't consider the context around his action enough. Its weird because the carreer have becomed more popular during this hunger game Renaissance, especially on tik tok. People have comed to understand that the careers, despite enthusiasticly trying to kill other tributes, were a product of their upbringing. People understand the the carreer fell prey to Capitol propaganda but then fail to realize that Gale is also a product of his upbringing and that he fell prey to district 13 (Coin's) propaganda. People claim that Katniss never liked him which is untrue, after he gets whipped by the peacemaker in book two, she states that if he got reaped and the Capitol paired him with a girl she would feel jealous 🤓☝️
i think, specially under the context of the Gaza genocide and the stupid debate of whether Palestinians had a right to active resistance to occupation or not (of course they did and they do), understanding Gale's position becomes easier everyday.
Wow. As a prior gale hater, I think you have totally flipped my perspective. I will always be for Everlark, but with the context and political knowledge I have now as an adult, gale is entirely more interesting and sympathetic to me. What a tragic character
I don't really understand people who complain about love triangles. I've read a lot of YA, there usually isn't a love triangle and when there is, there is usually only a little time dedicated to it because the characters are too busy with the plot to sort out their feelings. I honestly wish some of those books had a page or two where protagonist thinks through their decision.
been rethinking these books ever since I learned that Suzanne Collins started writing them after channel surfing between coverage of the Iraq war and reality tv 😵💫
The only time I’ve been like ‘oh you don’t understand the themes’ in regards to the desire for more hunger games books is when I saw someone go ‘I just want to see how brutal the arenas would be’. Wanting to learn more about the psychology of character like Haymitch and Finnick is great. Whatever that person wanted probably isn’t that great.
so glad we're in the timeline where julia isnt illiterate
For real
I couldn't have read the entire Bridgerton series I am so glad she did
you are braver than a marine for showing your facebook hunger games roleplay
Fr the CIA couldn’t waterboard that out of me
I would literally take that to my grave rather than share it
CANOPENER SOUP
The screenshots saying “8y” had me thinking she was SEVENTEEN at the time which was horrifying but then one said 2011 thank God
@@deja5477 The soup boy... from the soup store...
peeta this.....gale that......where's the love for canopener soup.......
Canopener Soup is genuinely the height of comedy. Whether it was intentional or not nothing can possibly be funnier than that name is to me rn
fr 😭😭😭 really caught me off guard
i literally cannot stop laughing 😂😭🤣
the serotonin i get when people call out the misogynistic mindset around YA/ girl franchises is UNMATCHED
this is a wendy's sir
Gale shows how people get radicalized.
Something that also sort of bugs me about the love triangle backlash is that it seems to carry with it this idea that romance is inherently frivolous. There are some romances that are just meant to be cheap fun and that's fine, in the same way a lot of action movies are just cheap fun with nothing to say and that's also fine. Romance plots can be just for fun but they can also be used as a way to say something with real significance. Some of the best books of all time are, when you break it down, about whether or not two people kiss.
But tbf, in THG specifically, it really isn't a romance. Katniss explicitly doesn't have any romantic interest in either of them for the majority of the series.
@@alexjames7144She spent more time being anxious about their sffection than she did actually having chemistry.
I truly don’t mind Gale as a character. Often, I am even fond of him. I just don’t like him with Katniss. He feels so entitled to her liking him back that he doesn’t even give her space to figure out her feelings most of the time. He’s so so mean to her any time she talks about Peeta, or any other dude for that matter. Including her relationship with Haymitch and Finnick. Weirdo behavior
I think it’s also important to consider their ages in this instance. These characters are 16 at the beginning of the series and 18-19 by the end (I think?). They’re so young. That a 17 year old boy would get jealous of his best friend/crush finding a support system outside of him when before all they had was each other isn’t that surprising. I also think before the games Katniss and Gale were so similar in their world views and I don’t think Gale knew how to handle her coming out of the games a different person.
And I’m not adding this to say you have to like Gale. I just wanted to add another perspective!
@@IndiaMyers Yeah I definitely get why he feels his very big and new feelings, and like I said, I don’t dislike him. I just have never wanted him and Katniss to end up together, you know?
I also think trauma plays a huge role. Katniss responded to losing her father by becoming extremely distant, but it’s likely Gale responded to the trauma of losing his father (and then his best friend getting sent off to the Hunger Games and then watching his entire town get destroyed) by becoming far too attached and jealously guarding those close to him. It’s not great, but it makes sense
Agreed. I was not online a lot when I first read the series so I didn’t know that so many people disliked Gale. I didn’t dislike Gale, I just did not think he was good for Katniss. I was definitely Team Peeta. I didn’t even blame him for Prim’s death per se.
@@ShunShunOri well I do and I loved Peeta because he’s perfect I mean he’s smart and funny and kind and he’s strong
So glad someone sees Gale like I do. I ultimately feel like Peeta is the person Katniss needed, but I've never outright hated Gale. He's a protector and a freedom fighter who is passionately against the Hunger Games and the brutality of the Capitol. He has been exposed to violence his entire life and has an intense motive for justice. I never read the books so I'm going by the movies here, but the turning point I believe for Gale where the line between justice and vengeance starts to blur was the carpet bombing of District 12. The PTSD of witnessing the genocide of his District and the survivors guilt of not being able to save more people could easily make anyone see red and want to bring down the oppressive force by any means necessary. Not to mention Gale is barely out of his teens at this point so of course he's not going to be the most mature person in the world and is impressionable, too.
That doesn't excuse his missteps or take away from the fact that he has to deal with the consequences but to vilify him for not being the "perfect victim" of a fascist regime, in my opinion, just lacks any nuance whatsoever.
People have every right to not like Gale or the love triangle, but the way people talk about him as if he's somehow worse than President Snow is so unjustified imo
I also think Gale is instrumental in the ‘will they won’t they’ of it all in the Katniss/Peeta relationship to carry us through the three books. After the first book, the two of them don’t really have a reason to not just be a couple. They’ve trauma bonded on this unique level, they still have a good rapport and do cute things like laying in bed together to comfort one another when they experience nightmares. We see Katniss’ perspective of the main ‘won’t they’ talking point, she questions how much of their romance was real and how much of it was an act to survive a life-threatening situation, and she’s too stoic and tbh socially awkward to just have a conversation with him about it in private. But it doesn’t really make sense for Peeta to not just go for it. He’s a pretty direct person throughout the series and not afraid to say what he feels so why doesn’t he just talk to her? That’s where Gale comes in. Peeta’s reasons for questioning the authenticity of their relationship lies in the fact that, outwardly, Katniss seems to have this other thing going with another guy, someone she’s known basically her whole life and someone she’s always hanging out with. It makes sense that he would perceive that as the real relationship and his as just a fabrication for the cameras.
as a gale TRUTHER, i must also add that people very often acting like peeta and katniss' trauma is the only one that matters and that gale was not respecting of that is not only false but also completely dismisses the fact that he's traumatized as well, as everyone from the districts to a certain level. in the real world, i think we're much more likely to find gales than peetas.
He literally keep bothering Katniss about the damn kiss
@@purpleclaws202 okay but we're talking about everything else besides that
@@Sheepcakezzz why are we ignoring that
RIGHT people talk so much shit about Gale and I’m like…did you forget he watched his entire village die while he fought tooth and nail to get as many people out as he could? Of course he’s angry beyond belief, he’s been fucking broken. Obviously what he did was monstrous, but…that’s sometimes the consequences of breaking people like that. Sometimes traumatized people turn into cold addicts like Haymitch, sometimes they turn suicidal/homicidal like Katniss, sometimes they lose who they were like Peeta, and sometimes they become destroyers like Gale. And obviously we know that the descriptors I used for Katniss, Peeta, and Haymitch are only a fraction of their stories and who they are, but people don’t seem to have the ability to realize that when it comes to Gale
@@TheOtherBoobJustDropped that's not excuse. Yall are just as toxic and full of hate as him
even that brief snippet of "if it weren't for the baby" got me all the way hyped there's nothing better in the world
I just spent the day with my 13-year-old niece and 12 of her friends, and I was blown away by the fact that they were all talking about The Hunger Games. Those books came out when I was around their age and the fact that they are still so culturally relevant today among young people is a true testament to how well-written and timeless the story is.
As an avid Gale hater. You opened my eyes into seeing him differently.
😌
@@juliacudney I still don't like him. Do I blame him for Prim death no But I wouldn't say I liked how he was with Katniss,
I think his philosophy and actions in war are understandable and always have, but I still can’t stand him as an actual love interest. The way he treats Katniss throughout the story, always concerned with his place in her heart rather than what she’s going through as a person is pretty gross honestly. Especially for someone who understands the trauma the capital can inflict like he does.
i’ve never minded love triangles but i never considered the potential for deeper story within them. framing the love triangle as a way for a character to determine their values is kind of genius. the way you described it not working as well with platonic friendships changed my point of view on gale’s role in the series (and romantic vs. platonic relationships in media in general). i used to see gale’s romance plot as superfluous and felt it could’ve been left as a friendship without changing the story much. but making it a romance raises the stakes. friends can live apart, partners often can’t. having katniss decide a life partner goes along with her deciding what she believes and how she wants to live.
i’m eager to reread with this added perspective, great video!
CANOPENER SOUP???!
kinda obsessed tbh
Just canopener things
Sponsored by Campbell's Chicken Noodle. Just like mom used to make!
Iconic tbh
Your Y/N name being Sage Green is such a mood I always wanted to be named Sapphire
no because I WOULD watch a whole response to that YMS review. just saying.
I feel like many male movie critics who dislike HG movies would like thm much more if main character was a guy.
@@mpGreen03 Completely agree. I think it's people assuming it's going to be bad because it's made for girls since the MC is a girl, which are both complete non sequiturs, obviously. I love watching people react to the movies, but a common consensus I see with male viewers is that they say they never watched it because they assumed it would be bad and overly romantic. When they watch it now, they're surprised at its depth and violence - as if the premise isn't about children murdering each other.
I remember watching that review at the time (as an impressionable tween), and being so hurt and confused by it. It's stuck with me ever since just how willfully ignorant YMS was being. I was so happy when Julia started going in on that dogshit review and would watch a whole video of her doing just that.
So the books came out in my early 20s and this is fascinating because from my view, every conversation was about how Peeta was the boring choice. You say he doesn't need a defense, but he did!
I was 17 when the last book dropped and I was the only person in my friend circle that preferred Peeta!
Assuming you’re also in the same age group where you read them a year or so before the movies came out, I think a lot of that perception had to do with the movies reshaping out perspective with hindsight. On top of casting Liam Hemsworth, an actor with a lot of charisma and natural chemistry with Jennifer Lawrence, the translation from page to screen I think makes it a bit more explicit that Katniss and Peeta’s dynamic has more to do with mutual circumstance than emotional connection.
ive never liked the argument "wanting more books/movies makes you the capitol" like 😭
gale is because gale matters ❤ i was happy with katniss and peeta but i never understood the hatred for gale, i thought it was pretty obvious that gale wasn't a villain in the end but just wasn't right for katniss ideologically, and that choosing peeta was a more thematically relevant ending. but i'm from a tiny town and never saw any of the public reception when it came out, and realizing how conflated the love triangle was with twilight in the media and the misogyny towards both makes it make sense.
Sprinted here my queen
Me too!
thank you🫶
charlotte who? (love them both tho, obviously)
So relatable
Such a mood
saw the title, thought this was about gale of waterdeep and prepared some answers... but to this one, i don't have any
Its very interesting to me also that readers generally sympathise with Effie and even Cesear (In some circles) and recognise how their ignorance did directly harm others and was also a product of their environment yet hold so much anger for Gale. To me this says something we have heard before that with privilege comes the freedom to make greater mistakes and be forgiven. We so often do this in day-to-day; that is, to be hesitant to blame the person committing the atrocities and quick to blame the oppressed for reacting. I don’t even want to hear anyone say its because they liked Prim because they didn't and they don't. Gale did bad things. He’s also fictional. Can we please stop.
thank you so much for this, he was a traumatized teenager with his best friend ripped away from him as a toy for his oppressors. not a manic serial killer as people love to make him out to be
loved this! like you mentioned, i think there’s something to be said about how westerners especially, view fiction as the same thing as actual political theory. many ppl in the west can seemingly only view real life horrors perpetuated by our & other governments through the lens of science fiction. yes art is powerful & can make meaningful statements about “society” (lol) but that should never replace nonfiction theory which seeks to solely educate not entertain. conflating the two does more harm than good & muddies the role of art in any sort of political upheaval.
sometimes it’s okay to get serious. everything does not need to be packaged in the context of a fictional story in order for you to care. this is why i roll my eyes when ppl take george orwell’s shtick as gospel. we can do better sociopolitical analysis than that of an 8th grader writing a book report cmon now!
p.s i am a formal love triangle anti but i am willing to meet you in the middle on this one miss cudney
Fiction is a good gateway, but I agree that if you really want to talk seriously then you gotta delve into non-fiction.
Fiction can give you the philosophy without the baggage. Making up alien races or fictional countries with weird governments gives you the basis of the ideas with some distances from your real world bias. If you want to really get into though, you have to confront the real world baggage as well.
love triangles are actually really popular I think people just don't call them that when they like em. a lot of Very Real Literature is about people having affairs
I liked Gail when I originally read the books and was surprised that katniss didn’t want some one with “fire” like I knew she liked peeta but …after rereading as an adult like it made so much more sense to me why she wanted peeta more because it was more clear to me the love she had for him
Thank you for sharing this video. Reflecting on my younger days, while I was firmly “Team Peeta,” I also found Gale to be an intriguing character. I could see how Gale could have been a compelling romantic interest if Suzanne Collins had chosen to explore that path. It’s interesting how some critics of those who desire more books or movies in The Hunger Games series accuse them of glorifying or misunderstanding the source material. However, I would argue that it's the widespread disdain for Gale (and by extension the love triangle) that actually reflects a lack of understanding of the depth of the story. While I don’t believe one has to be “Team Gale” or agree with his choices, I find it troubling when people fail to empathize with the oppressed and expect Gale to conform to a “perfect victim” archetype, devoid of moral ambiguity. Ultimately, the series prompts readers to question their own moral compasses and consider what they would do in similar circumstances. If Katniss had chosen Gale’s path, driven by a belief in the ends justifying the means, would it be fair to blame her? Would her departure from the “perfect victim” mold make her less likable?
Love this! Those are exactly my thoughts.
You better PREACH TO THE CHOIR! this is probably one of the best takes I've seen in regards to this aspect of the franchise.
Yes!!! Even if we don’t agree with Gale’s choices, he wasn’t evil, he just wasn’t for Katniss.
My thing is that I’m not totally against more hunger games books but I only want them when Collins has something to say I do not want this cash cow to become a true cash cow when she has something to say and does it through another hunger games book I will gladly read but until then I am content with what we have
Absolutely agree. When Ballad was announced to be about Snow people were complaining she was going to justify him or make him a hero and I was rolling my eyes the entire time because HOW would Suzanne Collins forget her own politics or the themes of her own series. Ballad made it clear she had a lot to say about where the American political sphere is right now, it felt cathartic to read and was clearly a commentary on the state of young men being radicalized and "red-pilled" and the slippery slope of allowing ambition to cloud your judgement and allow you to justify a status quo that actively harms and oppresses people, shaping your ability to look the other way or even actively participate if it benefits you personally. Collins is not stupid, anything she chooses to write will be thoughtful, passionate, and wise.
Omg thank you for bringing up YMS’s review! I was a subscriber of his when that video came out and was so annoyed by it I unsubscribed. It lives in my head rent free
PRIM REAPER??? That is foul 💀
If anyone wants to know when she starts talking about Gale's role in the story, it's 20:36.
I do however recommend you stick around for the beginning because the vintage facebook roleplay is truly something to behold
I stopped watching YMS when I watched a Twilight watch party and they were not engaging with the material at ALL, just criticizing it from the outskirts. One of the guys kept trying to explain the lore to them, but it was obvious they didn't want to actually pay attention to the material. Very obnoxious
I think if we went through something similar to what Gale went through, a lot of us would probably turn out very similarly to how he turned out.
Gale is an interesting character and vital to serve as a sort of foil to Katniss. Their exchange in Mockingjay: "You of all people should know it's not personal" coming from Gale, versus "I of all people know it's always personal" coming from Katniss. They both have fundamentally different understandings of killing and violence. Gale believes the ends justify the means and Katniss doesn't.
I also agree that good love triangles always present each of the love interests as representing different life paths and ideologies the main character can choose. To choose Gale or Peeta is also to choose a life path and a course for your future that will be radically different between either of the boys. I'm a fan of love triangles because they're such a strong multi-use tool that can develop the characters, the world, and insights into their choices all at once.
having trouble focusing cause your HAIR is serving SO HARD 😍 but also your vocabulary is lightyears ahead of mine & I was in English Honors in high school so it’s quite challenging to keep up anyway (since I don’t read…ever) BUT i very much enjoy hearing you talk about literally anything regardless 😊
Was watching your Bridgerton videos in preparation for Season 3 when this was uploaded. Love your channel x
gale represented war and wanted revenge, peeta represented peace and wanted to heal. after all the war and fighting katniss has lived through, it's obvious which kind of life she would choose.
did not expect that yms takedown but i appreciate it
I've always found Gale compelling and a key part of the story, even if he's always frustrated me. But he is supposed to, to be fair to him. Another thing that makes him see even less justified is the fact that Gale never loses anyone to the war. Gale's family survives the destruction of District 12. Peeta's whole family is killed and Katniss loses Prim. He has suffered, but he hasn't faced loss in the same way Peeta and Katniss have. Gale has always struck me as wanting to have been in Katniss's position of being the face of the revolution. He wants to be a hero whereas Peeta and Katniss were thrust into those roles despite wanting to live simple lives. With Gale, I think Collins is presenting a person who uses the justification of war to have the hero journey they've always yearned for. But the problem with believing yourself as a hero, is that you have to have villains and you never have to treat them humanely. It's telling that Peeta and Katniss return to District 12 whereas Gale never returns and moves to District 2, a district we know Careers used to live. In war, Gale found purpose whereas, for Peeta and Katniss, war was the obstacle to finding meaning and purpose.
Great video! I immediately clicked when I saw the topic lol.
As someone who did a lot of role play back in the day I had no idea Facebook rp with your reaal name (just joining groups) was a thing. I am shocked absolutely would’ve died lmao
"The fear that other properties for teenage girls will also be met with that kind of derision isn't unfounded" and then she came in with RECEIPTS.
I always feel like i always love the most disliked characters the most 😭 i was a gale girlie, loved sakura haruno, sansa stark, skyler white. i watch/read stuff in my bubble and then go online and find out my most beloved are despised. 😩
Julia, you ignited my love for Video essays, I started with the forever iconic, Mean Girls 2 video, however now I'm an avid video essay connoisseur.
omg fanfiction trigger warning
I love everything about this video, truly. What still bothers me about the movies though is that Peeta is an amputee for most of the plot, but he isn’t portrayed as such on screen. I still can’t shake the feeling that production didn’t trust the target audience to still find a disabled person “hot enough” (or it really was all about budget, in which case - investment in movies explicitly for girls/women hasn’t really been commendable either), when that’s just demonstrably untrue. Exhibit A being the Hunger Games, except only on paper
once i realized my biggest issue with gale was that my mind instantly pictured him as the other hemsworth who plays him in the movie a lot changed for me..
Tying into the question of "why are so many love triangles bad, but this one isn't?", I think that it's significant that most of the truly annoying love triangles (at least in my opinion) are either in sequels, or they've been added into an adaptation/story that didn't originally have one. The result is a bunch of love triangles that feel like plot-fillers that were only slapped on to pad out the story. In the hunger games, however, the romantic conflict is tightly tied into the themes and plot.
I definitely agree with you on the importance of Gale in the narrative (and deeply appreciate your love of the book series, it's really wonderful) but I still think Gale really... could use some improvements! I just don't find him to be a particularly interesting character; I understand where his anger comes from and I wouldn't change that, but he just doesn't really have relationships with any other character besides Katniss the way that Peeta does so we really only see like. Two sides of him (angry pining after Katniss and wanting to destroy the Capital). Peeta has his turbulent relationship with his family, his mentor relationships with Haymitch and Effie, a past childhood friendship with Delly Cartwright, his interactions with the other Tributes, etc etc the list goes on. Gale we only ever see interacting with Katniss (and I still think he's mostly a jealous jerk to in the majority of their screen time) and like... Beetee in the third book? Maybe some of the other soldiers from District 13? He never actually see him having any cute interactions with his three little siblings or his mother, or even with Prim who he's known for years and who he's said to be keeping an eye on when Katniss isn't there. He just ends up feeling like kind of a shallow character compared to Peeta, who is much fuller and richer.
I understand what you mean, to me he was a compelling character. But I feel like we didn't get to see this since it was only from Katniss point of view. Majority of her time was spend in the games or preparing for the games, so we mostly saw characters like Haymitch, Peeta and Cinna which whom she spend more time with. Even Prim and Katniss mother we didn't get to really know them because Katniss didn't always interact with with them. Most of the stuff we know are through her memories. So yeah that's kinda the downside of having a 1person pov
@@naomi7918 I do think that's part of it, but we don't really have that problem with a lot of other characters seen from Katniss' pov. Catching Fire would have been great to just show him having casual relationships with other people in Twelve, but I feel like that's actually when Gale is at his least engaging because he ONLY interacts with Katniss and it's usually to snip at her. He's better in Mockingjay because I think Collins realized he was a little aggressive (we do get some nice enough conversations in the mess hall between him and other characters) but tbh I kind of get the impression that she just doesn't like him that much as a character lol; he feels so underexplored compared to everyone else.
@@Winterpelt Honestly I don't think he's the only one. What do we know about Cinna, Effie, Wiress, Annie, Johanna etc. other than the things the capitol did to them and their interaction with Katniss. From some of them we don't even know their last name. From what Gale mentioned in the books, he seemed to be a full fleshed character with his own life besides Katniss. I really think that because of this pov we get to mss out on a lot of characters personalities. And honestly, storewide it makes sense, because it would be impossible for Katniss to know everything about everyone, but that's just my opinion.
I was just re-reading the hunger games with my little brother, very exited to watch this!!!
It is also the only books I could get him to read lol
!!!!!! been waiting for this since you first talked about it on twitter. the serialized nature of the books is a huge part of it too; when i first read mockingjay in middle school my brain simply refused to incorporate gale's characterization there into the fictional character i had a crush on. i refuse to accept judgement from tiktokkers who read all three books in a week.
Ive never liked gale but I understood the necessity of his character, how he participates in driving his world and society into revolution and what he represents.
Things like those hunger games role plays are why I subscribed to your channel. Excellent balance of humor and analysis as always :)
She stab herself in the cheast 😞😔
But she made it a good show lolz~
"i cry and tel them i love live them" is the funniest line I've ever seen
beautiful video, wonderful analysis, keep being loud and right since you do it so well
this was like a breath of fresh air after reading some of the worst HG takes on tiktok for the last 6 moths
Love the video and I so agree! As an adult who has approached THG w a new perspective my friends and I have been defending the love triangle for its thematic relevance for a while now. It’s existence is perfectly coherent w/ the story.
But as a petty Everlarker, it is funny when ppl dunk on Gale & I got a lot of joy from Nathan Zed’s video years ago. The quote “If you are team gale, you are a barbarian” STILL lives in my head rent free, I think it’s so funny, and he was ahead of the curve (and I still can’t get over Sarah Z being team Gale).
I think part of my dislike of Gale is that at the peak of THGs popularity, from my admittedly annecdotal experience, Gale was usually the more popular choice of the two guys b/c he does fit that more typical tortured tall dark and handsome role & I wanted more ppl to appreciate Peeta! I actually think Peeta is very atypical for a romantic hero bc he isn’t this hypermasc guy, and I really love that about him.
I appreciate Gale for what he’s doing w the story, but I agree w/ some other voiced sentiments that he’s not particularly good as a partner for Katniss. But he provides an important perspective in contrast to Peeta. That being said, maybe I’m being a hater but I think Liam hemsworth is utterly bland and forgettable as Gale. It’s not rly his fault. Imo it just screamed a very hollywood decision to cast a conventionally good looking white guy for the sake of playing up the desirability factor of the love triangle. But he’s just not that charismatic. Even as a person who doesn’t love Gale, he just feels very flat in the movie & it makes the unevenness of the love triangle more apparent. Like. I think the movies didn’t compel me at all to desire or choose the theme he was selling which is the fire to peeta’s dandelion. I feel like. Even if you or Katniss don’t choose Gale, you should still be compelled by him. And I never was.
With the release of TBOSAS the book I remember feeling very resentful that we were getting a villain origin story, and in retrospect I honestly am sorry to miss collinz that I did not give her enough credit. I thought it was gonna be a sympathetic villain backstory type of deal but it’s very clear panem as a playground to explore her philosophical & political ruminations on war is just as sharp as ever. I didn’t trust her and I should have. Honestly I’m in complete agreement w you that if she has more stories to tell w/in that universe, I welcome it.
i write a lot of clone troopers in my star wars dnd campaign and i would like ur permission to name one canopener soup please its fucking incredible
I've always been a gale anti but I'm willing to listen because it's coming from you (p.s. your hair looks especially beautiful today I'm a little jealous cause I just cut mine lol)
girl can we get more hunger games roleplay content i was giggling. ALSO i agreed with every point afterwards, ur the GOAT
This video literally made me go pull out my old International Relations textbooks from my undergrad to go refresh on Just War Theory and I spent an hour re-reading and taking notes. I think this is part of what Collins is trying to do with these books and the love triangle - lead into a bigger political idea.
Most people are not going to read these (prohibitively expensive!) textbooks steeped in assumed knowledge (that frankly I didn't even always understand at the time). But these novels give you a taste of these ideas, prompt you to think about it. I think some of the staunch anti-Gale posts show this, to an extent: lots of them take a very strong stance on attitudes to violence and resistance without necessarily taking in the whole picture or critically reflecting on the "counter-narrative" (my old professor loved this phrase) which is what the argument on the other side could be.
Sending this to my very passionately anti Gale buddy to further our ongoing debate, it'll be fun. Thanks for putting all my thoughts into words way better than I could!
I love David Levithan and his influence on YA publishing over the last two to three decades can never be understated but I had no idea he worked on THG or edited for Collins, crazy how big his impact is. Icon.
I'm relieved so much of my cringey middle school role play threads were lost when my Neopets password was forgotten forever lmao
Your videos always feel so cosy to me. I really missed them.
gale is an incredibly interesting and complex character in will die on this hill
honestly. insanely. as i've gotten older, i find myself defending gale more. their relationship is so so tragic. they meant so much to each other, and yet they're no longer in each other's lives, and it's sad and important.
I worked at a video rental store at the tail end of Twilight fever and at the height of Hunger Games fever.
The Hunger Games love triangle was absolutely marketed identically to what they did with Twilight. And the merchandise marketing was even more aggressive.
I still hate gale, but I am glad you laid this argument out in this way, because despite my hate, I still understand where he's coming from, and I sympathize with him when he's talking about District 12 in Mockingjay. HOWEVER...he's still a shitty person😅
Girl your hair always looks sooo pretty
This is such a good video. It makes me wanna reread the books
how dare you make me look at something w nuance goddamit
once in a hungergames rp i killed of both my guys and someone dmed me if we can continue cuz i was like the only one NOT doing romance stuff and she dint have a romance parter and just wanted me back so e can build more traps
oh 2014 rps how i miss u
this was so well thought-out, and thank you for the link in the description too! i actually had no idea about that yms video, i had only watched his high-profile stuff which i usually agreed with and even though it's from a while back it's still disappointing to hear.
also, don't feel bad about your hunger games rp because my brother and i wrote 'satirical' rpf hunger games fanfiction when we were kids and it's the most unfunny thing to ever exist
Yeahhhhhh older YMS videos are a bit painful. Happy for his glow up out of internalized misogyny; he picks better snark targets now.
Fan-freaking-tastic video, Julia. It starts off so silly and entertaining, yet ends with a truly thought through analysis. Thank God you're not illiterate ♡
honored to have been nominated for the fb hunger games in 2016
With my recent reread of Hunger Games and rewatch of the films, I've come to recognise Gale's significance and what he represents. I still get annoyed by him as a character, I strongly dislike a lot of his attitudes towards Katniss personality-wise (you know, with the whole jealous 'why dont you want to run away with just me?' and refusing food and money for his starving family out of pride bs) but I know he has his purpose. I always felt the romance was the weakest part of the series, (granted I'm ace so I'm biased) but I know that Peeta and Gale have their significance in showing the ideologies Katniss can align herself with. As much as I have and will continue to roll my eyes at him to the point where a few lines and Liam Hemsworth's jawline serves as his only saving grace for me, I can't deny that the series just wouldn't be the same without him. You're right to remind us of that, he's a perfect illustration of the sort of person who could be bred from this sort of world (and also a good source to illustrate the stuff Katniss didn't experience, i.e, the bombing of 12).
I still hate him, though.
Back here after the new book was announced x
@7:26 I find so much solace in the fact that I'm not alone on my journey on the Hunger Games Obsession to Big Brother fan pipeline
This video is a masterpiece. I love your writing and you’re so brave for showing us you thg roleplaying haha
i tried to watch this while I was oil pulling (holding coconut oil in my mouth) and i laughed so hard at your role-playing that I spit the oil all over my bed
"to champion hot takes like these, one must've quit while they were behind" SCREAMINFHFNNSA
Honestly, you killed it with this video. Thank you for another banger
Thank you for being bold enough to share your cringy Facebook role play history. They were hilarious and made me happy 😂
As a fellow zillennial, this content spoke to my soul 😩 - love your work Julia
As someone who wasn't all that invested in the love aspect of the hunger games, I always found a lot of the discourse around Gale to quite shallow and woefully unsympathetic. Like I get it, most of these people come at him as a rival to their main boy and aren't meaning a real harm, but still. Gale to me has always read as a cautionary tale of victims of oppression. This is what happens to alot of boys who grow up in war and tyranny, they get angry and seek revenge to do whatever they can to never go back to that life again. Idk, he isn't my favorite either but for so many to declare he wasn't needed is quite disappointing because it's always been clear what Suzanne was intending with him. I found him more so sad than anything else.
Also, this is why I wish they'd cast people of color, particularly indigenous actors for the movies because that allegory would hit even harder when put with that historical context.
Loved this video Julia, really missed around here.
Yes, I always wished they didn’t cast white people for Katniss, Gale and Haymitch. People always argue and say ‘it doesn’t say they aren’t white, just that they have an olive skin tone’ but from what we read from the books… it seems pretty clear they are indigenous and Peeta who’s a merchant is white and the divide with that in their districts between seam and merchant is all lost in the movies. I think it would’ve added way more if they casted actors that represented these characters more
I also think Gale hate has gone too far, people don't consider the context around his action enough. Its weird because the carreer have becomed more popular during this hunger game Renaissance, especially on tik tok. People have comed to understand that the careers, despite enthusiasticly trying to kill other tributes, were a product of their upbringing. People understand the the carreer fell prey to Capitol propaganda but then fail to realize that Gale is also a product of his upbringing and that he fell prey to district 13 (Coin's) propaganda.
People claim that Katniss never liked him which is untrue, after he gets whipped by the peacemaker in book two, she states that if he got reaped and the Capitol paired him with a girl she would feel jealous 🤓☝️
That emoji makes you look bad
@@purpleclaws202 Yeah, I know. Its there on purpose for fun
i think, specially under the context of the Gaza genocide and the stupid debate of whether Palestinians had a right to active resistance to occupation or not (of course they did and they do), understanding Gale's position becomes easier everyday.
Wow. As a prior gale hater, I think you have totally flipped my perspective. I will always be for Everlark, but with the context and political knowledge I have now as an adult, gale is entirely more interesting and sympathetic to me. What a tragic character
I don't really understand people who complain about love triangles. I've read a lot of YA, there usually isn't a love triangle and when there is, there is usually only a little time dedicated to it because the characters are too busy with the plot to sort out their feelings. I honestly wish some of those books had a page or two where protagonist thinks through their decision.
“Guess I bet on the right horse” IT’S TRUE THO 😭 💀
this is awesome
glad to see another facebook roleplaying veteran
been rethinking these books ever since I learned that Suzanne Collins started writing them after channel surfing between coverage of the Iraq war and reality tv 😵💫
You really came for yms. Yes. Cat fight!!
The only time I’ve been like ‘oh you don’t understand the themes’ in regards to the desire for more hunger games books is when I saw someone go ‘I just want to see how brutal the arenas would be’. Wanting to learn more about the psychology of character like Haymitch and Finnick is great. Whatever that person wanted probably isn’t that great.