To be honest, I didn't have "feeling bad for immortal Space Wizards" on my bingo card for 2023 but here we are What I did have however was the Majorkill Plush 2.0 : www.makeship.com/products/majorkill-plush-2 Everyone who buys can request a free video message
Hey majorkill. I just found out about your mini series homebrew adventures with the "reject space marine captains" it's one of the funniest things I've watched in recent memory
you can also argue that the emperor messed up double by not having a high speed line for emergencys tbh. if he would have had a emergency line then magnus would have never breached the webway.
Hello Majorkill, Would you please make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, the Ecclesiarchy, and the High Lords of Terra? Pretty please? Thank you.
Currently reading The Crimson King and 30k Ahriman is literally the perfect Space Marine psyker. Gets his men to train and work without their psychic abilities to keep their skills sharp and prepared if they're ever caught without them. Encourages caution against overuse of their abilities and fully acknowledges the risks of being a psyker. Insists the legion are Astartes first and psykers second. Was willing to train mortals to use their gifts but made sure they were well aware of the risks. Also the main dude to council against whatever dumb shit Magnus wants to try because he's literally OP. Magnus may have saved them from the flesh change (temporarily) but that's about all the good he did for them. They were what you want from a psychic legion. Big E royally fucked up at the Council of Nikea though, a sensible compromise of the librarius was literally offered up.
@@MusMasi 2 reasons. 1.) it’s suspected he was meant to betray Big E rather than Fulgrim but the Honk God with a hard to pronounce name swapped them, 2.) Khan wasn’t secretive of his dislike of the Imperium. Legit, if Horus rebelled and didn’t have chaos with him I legit think he would have joined Horus,
Exactly. In my opinion if the emperor had talked to Magnus before he left the great Crusade for his Webway project a lot of The Horus Heresy could have been avoided but Magnus inherited not just the emperor's prowess as a psycher but also his arrogance.
@@slip6699 which is why he should of told him what chaos was and what they were doing. Alot of stuff chaos has pulled off has been because most people have no idea of what their getting into.
I'm 100% convinced if Khorne did not intrinsically hate Psykers, the World Eaters and Thousand Sons would be firm allies. No two legions got screwed over by the Imperium (and their own Primarchs) more.
@@gwilym1991 Nah, the Thousand Sons are genuinely disgusted by a majority of the other Chaos legions, because unlike the other Chaos legions that went willingly to the Dark Gods the Thousand Sons had literally no choice, if they could they would have stayed loyal to the Imperium, not to mention that characters like Ahriman don't worship the Chaos Gods and even actively work against them. What I'm trying to say, The (original) Thousand Sons dislike the other Chaos legions because they became monsters, the TS were forced to be.
Prospero is my fav HH conflict because of its tragedy and as it covers my fav factions, as well. Magnus was about to stay to his failures but even messed that one up. Imagine if he'd surrendered himself to Russ right away to protect his sons. The Sons could still be loyal and shift the entire power balance within the heresy.
@@729060 If you've read the Burning of Prospero, Leman Russ pleads with Magnus to surrender himself to be brought to Terra. However, the psychic communications to Prospero were blocked off by Magnus.
The man had orders to kill a man he despises which at the time he thought legit and yet still gave him chance to surrender only to be treated with "blocked call" no wonder he flipped of and choose genocide. You try to come peacefully to a potential traitor during civil war only from your POV to get ignored? Yeah...
Thousand Sons even still have their Prospero Spireguard, consisted of human disciplined soldiers which they actually respect. Not to mention Magnus and Thousand Sons actually were close friends with the most cool and chill Primarchs and their legions, Jaghatai Khan and Sangunius. There was also a confrantation between Konrad Curze and Magnus. Konrad wanted to bomb and destroy the conquered planets library, where Magnus and Thousand Sons were desperately trying to shield and protect it. In the end, Magnus had to relent. During the Horus Heresy, Siege of Terra, Mortarion and Magnus were ordered to attack Imperial Palace together with their Legions. When the Primarchs met, Magnus greeted Mortarion with respect and kindness. Eventhough Mortarion hated his guts. Magnus even casted some sort of healing spell on Mortarion that somewhat eased his pain and cleared his blurry vision. Mortarion somewhat appreciated this gesture. Now granted there was a bit of subtle manipulation on Magnus’s part as he wanted Mortarion to perform well so he could be a good distraction while he infiltrated the palace itself… but still i would like to think there is still some part of goodness left in him. Magnus never really had any malice towards anyone. Not until all the anti-psycher shit started to happen. He and his legion were benevolent by nature. But their downfall ultimately came from their unique powers which caused them to be arrogant. Especially Magnus. He thought, with his great wisdom and psychic gifts, he knew better than most. Sometimes even more than the emperor. He shared the same dream with the emperor. But alas.. its a cruel and tragic universe. The road to hell is paved by good and noble intentions. FUN FACTS: Some Thousand Son sorcerers even believed they could cure the Butchers Nails
Jaghatai trusted Magnus so much that when the Horus Heresy started and the Khan had just gotten back from kicking the ass of the remnants of Ork Empires, he went to Prospero to ask him wtf was going on before he chose a side the coming conflict. But he was too late because Prospero had already been destroyed by the Space Wolves which furthered his confusion of the situation when the Wolves asked for aid from the Alpha Legion. The absolute surprise and severe despair of the conversation that the fragment of Magnus that Magnus had left behind with the Khan is really telling in how screwed things were with the Thousand Sons. The Khan was the last person "Magnus" had expected to meet, but since they were so close it made it all the more tragic that the Khan had to choose between his only friends and the Imperium.
@@peterbarca8783 It was quite sad indeed. Magnus was his closest friend. They both shared a common interest scholarly and artistic pursuits. Jaghatai did warn Magnus about the dangers of the warp. If only he would heed his words
@@Eliphas_ wasn't Perturabo a really good friend of Magnus as well? That's why he felt betrayed when the only thing the Emperor asked him to build instead of besiege was a temporary court for Magnus.
@@staringgasmask I think so.. can't remember much. Perturabo always wanted to build works of art rather than weapons of destruction. Its one of the reasons he was so bitter
The thing is: can we truly blame Magnus for his arrogance? He was so involved with the Warp that his view of the world must have been shaped by it, plus Tzeentch clearly manipulated his circumstances so that he would grow arrogant. His flaws were as much of a product of his development as his virtues. The man needed a guide and a father, but the Emperor saw him as a tool first and a son second.
Recently read "a thousand sons" and it really made me appreciate Magnus and his legion. I really feel bad for them. I'm not on the team of "Magnus did nothing wrong" but I definetely understand where they are coming from now.
literally the whole thing could have been easily fucking avoided if the emperor let magnus into his inner circle and explained his decisions. Magnus would have probably even gone with it and temporary stopped his experimentation with the warp if he was just reasoned with and he fucking deserved it given how important he was in emperors grand plan and that important pretty much being above the other primarchs with the possible exception of Guilliman.
My favorite legion. An important detail though: the Emperor told the Wolves to arrest Magnus and the 1k Sons, not kill them. But iirc Horus intercepted the signal and told the Wolves to destroy them.
10:20 this Astartes was Phosis T'kar who was captain of the 3rd brotherhood i think. He was a really OP thousand son and during the battle of prospero he was actually disappointed at how easy it was for him to kill custodes. When he saw leman massacring his brothers he unleashed his full power and went after him, killing many of lemans bodyguards however valdor stepped infront of him (its worth noting that at this point T'kar was so hyped on warp juice that he knows he could kill valdor right at that moment if he wanted too) but T'kar had fully succumbed to the flesh change and was now an ugly ass eldritch horror, realising this and understanding the true fate of the legion he allowed valdor to strike him down. Honestly a really badass thousand sons and one of my favourites
man was so juiced up on that warp spaghetti he was like “i could blast him with the full might of the warp but, i realize that i’m currently a giant fucking monster.”
The Thousand Sons don't deserve their fate, just like Yarrick doesn't deserve his previous model to be his last, Majorkill please make a mini dedicated to the late Old Man of Armageddon
Thousand Sons my beloved Jokes aside, I really wish more people were into Thousand Sons - I love their story and the tragedy of their fall, especially the tragedy of Magnus. Shame you didn't mention Phosis T'kar, he was an absolute unit.
They have some really outstanding characters and Magnus is a very interesting and intricate character (one of my favorite Primarchs in the lore). It does seem like a bit of a "miss" to the lore and storyline that the TS were shit-canned in this way.
@@AzraelSoulHunter I feel as if the Wolves get shit on for non-TS related reason - from the admitably overdone "furry" jokes to other things - like the shitty wolf-this wolf-that naming - but they get a lot of fans too and I feel as if GW gives the Wolves a good spotlight and practical "plot armour" in some stories. Still love the Wolves.
I want to point out that Magnus is currently making a sanctuary for psykers while rebuilding Prospero, not murdering and pillaging and dominating like Abaddon or infecting billions like Mortarion. Considering how shitty the Imperium treats Psykers, Magnus' psyker empire is truly the best possible thing if you are one. And after the Great Rift forming, there's a shit ton more psykers than ever before. And many non psykers end up just becoming Tzaangors which isn't all that bad either. I know this comes off incredibly bias, but I really do think the nascent Prospero 2.0 is probably the best place to be in the current timeline.
imagine if all of this, the figth with girlyman, etc was just an over elaborate plan to force the imperium to acept the thousand sons back and preparing girlyman towards the dangers of the warp in a way he could not refuse, this would explain while magnus loose against guilliman and all the convoluted plans he and his sons are in
Don't worry. The Imperium will fuck it up. We'll get a second burning of Prospero because the Imperium can't have the moralle problem of a human territory that isn't complete shit that people could just leave and go join. Especially not the psykers who are juicy human sacrifices that the Emperor needs to eat the souls of.
magnus accepts all manner of psykers and mutants into the planet of the sorcerers, and now that it isnt in the warp anymore, its probably not thaaaaaat bad to live there, but there is probably still a chance you just get sacrificed or experimented on
What I love the most is how, just as Magnus was arrogant during Council, so was the Emperor, thinking that he can just "ban" many people to not be themselves while he finishes his project.
"The knowledge of sorcery is like sea water, the more that is drunk, the thirstier the drinker becomes, and the more surely they are poisoned." - Kva 'He who is Divided', Caster of Runes from the Space Wolves
It's an interesting perspective when it comes to Warp. When scientific outlook is often favored when compared to religious one when it comes to the Warp the more religious and "superstitious" way of treating it is actually a favorable way of doing it and science is something that is prone to dooming you.
Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans position would be pretty cool ngl , seeing how they react to the new religious imperium, suppressed disappointment like Guilliman or anger and rage?
I read Talon of Horus about Abbapussy but the main character is a Thousand Sons sorcerer and talks about the fall of Prospero and how the Rubric Marines came to be. The Thousand sons are heartbroken on losing their brothers, somehow in a 40k story the author conveyed just deep sorrowful loss. Like losing a loved family member, and to be tricked by Tzeench the surviving Thousand Son sorcerer are split, most of them fucking hate what happened but some felt it was necessary. The Rubic marines are these dead, animated golems, but there's that little piece of a soul left inside them and they talk, and it's just how the dialogue was written but it's heartbreaking hearing them comply with the orders Khayon is giving them like that last bit of humanity Tzeench couldn't rip out of them is doing it out of love. Highly recommend for other nerds, very good read.
I’ve always read Magnus’ choice of suicide by Space Wolves as the best option, Big E was being absolutely blind thinking they could bring the Thousand Sons in. Magnus at this point had seen the true Tzeencth who might have been the peak of his power in lore with all the change and things in motion of the Heresy. He knew many of his sons would not accept chains especially from Space Wolves and would have fought or caused more subtle problems. Magnus now knew his legion was basically a bunch of little chaos bombs only a few could straight up resist the change if Tzeencth willed it against them. If they got on the Space Wolves ships and entered the warp the Space Wolves would have been eradicated and the Thousand Sons would have fallen all the same. Tzeencth would hit them with a warp storm so hard because he’s not letting his little pet project slip away. Then imagine the battle of Prospero constrained to ships were if a gellar field goes down suddenly the full might and demons of the warp could join them. Only Russ and a handful of plot protected souls would have fought out of that and we know Magnus wouldn’t have escaped with Russ because he felt incapable to leave his boys to their fate. Tzeencth might have been at his most powerful and still ended up with the most broken soul shattered of the chaos primarchs and a resentful super weakened legion. Thousand Sons were born with Tzeencth’s hand up their asses and he still had to break every single one of them to get them dancing to his bullshit.
Being a 40k noob I thought the blue Egyptian guys that explode into purple dust were cool enemies in the new game so I looked up the lore and now I have depression. 10/10.
The Thousand Son were the army that initially introduced and brought me into the hobby so there will always be a soft spot in my heart for them, though I'm a Dark Eldar player to the core nowadays
I love how he goes on and on about all the stuff the Thousands sons did to keep their sorcery in check and just conveniently forgets to mention Magnus was the one who taught them all of it 😂
A lot of it. But they had knowledge on Prospero before he arrived, and they also acquired and researched more information in their expeditions across the Galaxy.
And they were NOT careful about it at all. Some of them were straight up doing chores with it, like cleaning their guns. They were not careful about it.
Thousand Sons have some of the best Traitor Marine characters. Ahriman is incredibly strong and is so ballsy he wants to run Caegorache's pockets to reverse his Rubric while Khayon is just a badass in all ways by casually making Magnus kneel and being such a Chad not even the Inquisition killed him on sight when he "surrendered" to them.
A flash of insight struck Yvraine. ‘Ahzek Ahriman!’ she shouted, ‘I have that which you seek. I can restore your brethren!’ A stone’s throw away, the Visarch cut at the webway’s exterior with the Sword of Silent Screams, but he could not scratch it. The Yncarne hissed in pain to her flank, trailers of purple mist unwinding from its body as it was dissolved by the aether behind. ‘And why should I believe that?’ came the sorcerous voice in Yvraine’s head. ‘You have no power here, in my new domain.’ She felt white heat as something loomed behind, the fell gaze of godly eyes burning down upon her with terrible, inhuman focus. ‘Open your eyes!’ she cried, secretly praying to Ynnead that her desperate gambit would work. She pressed her hands upon the psychocrystal of the webway’s exterior, focussed on the armoured Legionaries within, and reversed the cycles of their existence. A dozen of the Thousand Sons Rubric Marines, previously levelling firepower into the Reborn with the emotionless efficiency of automatons, staggered backwards as if struck. They looked at one another, clutched their hearts, and fell back, rallying around Ahriman before taking up the defensive stances of the Emperor’s Legiones Astartes. Yvraine could just make out their words as they frantically sought to make sense of their situation. ‘Ahzek? Is that you, brother?’ ‘Where are the Athenaeans? These are Eldar we face this day!’ ‘In the name of Magnus, what is going on?’ Ahriman shook his head as if stunned, his wide shoulders shaking uncontrollably with mirth, grief, or a mixture of the two. He brought his cupped hands together once more and yanked Ynnead’s luminaries downward with a shout of pure exultation. A lurch of the stomach, and Yvraine suddenly found herself in the swirling tide of battle once more, the Visarch and the Yncarne quickly taking up positions behind her. ‘Do it,’ she said to her companions, siphoning the rich reservoir of Eldar life force that flooded the tunnels into a single burst of invigorating energy. In a flash, the Iyandeni giant Soulseeker was there, trailing white flame as his wraithblade carved a chasm through the crystal of the webway’s superstructure with an ear-splitting scream. Stepping to the edge of the fissure, the Yncarne opened its maw impossibly wide. It inhaled so mightily the resurrected Thousand Sons were drawn towards it, stumbling over the edge of the chasm to fall away into the void beneath. Ahriman screamed in denial, riding his disc after them on a trail of fire. ‘The Whispering God gives new life,’ said Yvraine as her Reborn surged forward around her for the kill, ‘just as he takes life away.’ This scene always stuck with me. Ahriman becoming very emotional after seeing his brothers turn back to flesh and blood after thousands of years. (Gathering Storm: Fracture of Biel-Tan)
Always felt for Ahriman but especially here. Yvraine accomplished what he's been trying for 10,000 years only to kill his reborn brothers in front of him. That was cruel even by Eldar standards.
Which book is this from again? Rather than pickup book 3 of the Ahriman trilogy today I was possibly going to grab another sons novel, next month may finish the Ahriman trilogy. Switch it up maybe
Loyal thousand sons were epic. Loyal Magnus at his prime was the kind of good guy you’d want by your side. One of the best and tragic tales to come out of black library
"The minds of gods are not for mortals to know, or to judge. Accept that Tzeentch has a place for all of us in his grand scheme, and be happy in the part you have to play." - Proclamation of Magnus the Red to the Thousand Sons
@@JC-uz3ey Well to be fair he went from thinking he is one of the most powerfull beings whose actions define the fate of the galaxy to rapidly become instrument of its downfall and living with the revelation that even at his best he was just a dog in the leash of Tzeentch. Having that moment of clarity that at your most powerful you were little better than a mouse in a maze. and he lost his Noble Shard even tho Malcador deemed he didnt need it Magnus didnt agree.
i recently finished fury of magnus and it had 2 really cool moments for the red man the 1st was saving some refugees from getting crushed by debris and the second was him rejecting the emperor's chance to rejoin the loyalist all because he didn't want to lose his sons in place of a new legion. he may be bad now but magnus is still awesome in some ways or at least was.
I ... didn't know anything except that Space Wolves attacked them. I guessed that they were doing bad sorcery or something. ...damn! This is on another level entirely! Thank you for this!
Magnus didn't mess up the Fall of Prospero by shutting himself away. He messed it up when he couldn't hold to his convictions and decided to fight anyway. Like his brother Pertuabo, Magnus assumed that the Emperor would never forgive him and that his only option was to betray him or be destroyed. He chose to die rather than betray his father, unlike Pertuabo. He handicapped his legion to ensure minimal casualties to the loyalists when they attacked because he knew Horus wanted to destroy two loyal legions at the same time. The tragedy is that even though Horus told Russ to destroy the Thousand Sons, it still could have been avoided if Magnus hadn't assumed that there was no hope for himself and his legion.
if he didn't "handicap" the defenders they would have utterly wiped out the space wolves if it wasn't for custodes & other supporting elements. The OG thousands sons were just built different .
Honestly, it was more contrasting convictions. Magnus lvoed and cared for his sons, which was why he bartered his eye away in the first place. Dude fought when he couldn't bear to hear them suffer anymore.
This just makes me wonder what a "Emperor sides with Magnus" timeline would look like, because him aggravating the anti-psyker primarchs enough would be an absolutely hilarious way for all the demon primarchs to be originally anti-psyker.
i love the space wolf story about the runepriest who had a thousand sons sorcerer in his mind, he leads an expedition to prospero to find some old space wolves, and he forms a "friendship" with the sorcerer and lets him return to his own body, healing it when he did.
Imagine if the Emperor sent the Lion to Prospero instead... or even Gulliman. After Monarchia Gulliman would try ANYTHING to avoid hurting another brother like that and exhaust every diplomatic option.
Russ tried to hail Magnus, but there were no answer. Lion and Guillinan would have done the same as Russ, because they would follow order of the warmaster! If they sending another psychics primarch that would been a different story!
@@Directo13 actually not exactly. In others primarchs place this would have gone wayyyy different. In guilamans case he would have went down with some of his men to see what the hells up with magnus and after this get magnus to chill out and things go way worse in the heresy Vulkan and sanguinus would likely do the same thing Lorgar and some of the other traitors already fell so unlikely Hell jaghatai if he was there would have been better since khan and magnus were bros
@@lolbots686 but the emperor sent his executioners (an official who carries out a sentence of death on a legally condemned person.) if we are going to talk about how arrogant magnus is we need to talk of the arrogats of the emperor.
Seeing as how crucial Magnus was in the Emperor’s plan (being his replacement for the throne), how unbelievably stupid it was to alienate his son, and even to send the one legion you know hated the T-Sons guts.
The conversation Ahriman has with the librarians in “The End & Death vol II” gives even more insight to how the thousand sons were positioning themselves.
The tragedy of the Thousand Sons is one of my favorite parts of 40k. Ahriman is tied up there with Ragnar Blackmane as my favorite character. My two favorite factions caught in a never ending brutal rivalry. Kinda like the rivalry I have with studying and going to school to do something helpful for others and wanting to go out to drink/have fun/ and possibly an impromptu fight with frat dirtbags.
ahhh one of my favourite Pre heresy legions. Amazing guys. They were psykers and they had everything to do with the arcane but they were the most logical lads there. Educated, with academic attidude, cool in character, noble. I really loved them. Their fall in my opinion was one the greatest tragedies in Horus Heresy era
Shit was really harsh for Ahrimab in particular, he even had plans of becoming a wine maker when the crusade was over and was even good friends with regular humans, he was the chillest marine I've seen and then he got thrown in this downward spiral of fuck ups
There is so much really good development of Magnus and TS characters in the lore, but I have a hard time embracing them because of their aesthetic and their ridiculous armor. However, spot on video, mate!
We need the Emperor to beat Tzeentch in *Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker* to win Magnus’ soul back!!
Pshhh. Loyalist Thousand Sons. Nah. *Redacts the source of Blood Ravens geneseed* That would be insanity. They might turn into kleptomaniacs or something
I kind of consider the Grey Knights as their successor. The Grey Knights founding Supreme Grandmaster was the last remaining loyalist Thousand Son fused with the noble aspect of Magnus’ shattered soul. It’s entirely possible that this also explains why the current Supreme Grandmaster Kaldor Draigo appears to be so overpowered.
i still feel magnus isn't as bad as you say he is. Certainly he screwed up, but he's no perturabo. Still good video all around, the thousands sons are easily my favorite traitor legion with the death guard right behind them.
One detail you messed up was at the Trial, everyone besides Mortarion was just giving emotional reasons as their arguments while Magnus was countering them logically. Then Mortarion starts giving a logical, rational argument, which while he does have a bias against psykers after witnessing the horrors of his adoptive father, he was able to concisely describe and explain the dangers of psyker magic. Which led to Magnus getting emotional with the analogy and allegory (anallegory?) and Big E's subsequent approval of the removal. I quite like Mortarion
I think it'd be interesting if Magnus were redeemed at some point. I have no idea how that would work with him being a daemon primarch and all, but of all of the traitor primarchs his has always struck me as the fall that could possibly be resolved via some kind of intervention by Big E. Plus in the Dark Imperium novels Guilliman makes it clear that he understands Magnus was done dirty by the Emperor when he was just trying to help, and that Big E's secrecy about Chaos was the real problem. "Bringing back a primarch" by actually having a traitor renounce Chaos would also be a crazy-ass lore curve ball with fascinating implications - both with what becomes of Magnus, and ALSO how the Imperium would react.
If things had gone differently, the Thousands Sons could easily have remained a Loyalist Legion. After all, Magnus was the only one of the traitor Primarchs who was opposed to Horus at the start, Magnus even tried to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal, though this was to be his most reckless move and biggest mistake which turned the Emperor against him and believing that HE was the traitor rather than Horus. If this one move had gone differently, Magnus might have been one of the most significant of the Loyalist Primarchs who warned of the Horus Heresy before it could get started properly. Too bad Magnus wasn't sensible enough.
Yeah man, now I would call Magnus as dumb as a box of rocks, but that would be an insult to rocks(I stole this joke, the original joke maker is Ali Koca)
@@karvenman true,it also sucks because Magnus despite the arrogance was erudite,yet tzeench still twisted him like a puppet dancing in the night If the thousand sons weren't massichred or god forbid magnus finally stoped being emo and sulking,the loyalists would have won the heresy no questions asked While the traitors had perty,aka the ultimate master of siege and defense warfare like dorn,the thousand sons at there best were fucking unreal,and guys like arhiman and khayon were almost nigh primarch tier in might,had many thousand sons stay loyal it would have been a slaughter for the traitors as the thousand sons lay waste to them with the loyalists
@@lolbots686 honestly, if perty and magnus stayed loyal the loyalists would have a much easier time. abbadon who? here, a fucking warp fire kame hame ha from one of the strongest sorcerers in the thousand sons. oh no, the sons of horus and death guard are attacking? here, a massive wall with massive guns that shoot massive missiles at you.
@@synergy8879 for sure,and honestly even if magnus had turned there is a possibility for the thousand sons to remained loyal My idea is that if leman decided to go down and simply talk to magnus and hear him out about what the hell posessed him to say horus was going crazy,magnus goes with him to confirm,resulting in horus with the traitor sons of horus coming, now with betrayal out,the burning of prospero still happens but instead of russ massichring innocents and such, instead magnus and what thousand sons left with arhiman fight a losing battle,but not before magnus warns the many thousand son ships and evacuatees to not trust the warmaster Resulting in possibly the thousand sons remaining loyal but magnus, likely through exploitation via tzeench or other such goes traitor
The only communication leman tried was the spy he thought magnus sent to fenris the spy actually was sent by a demon, the same demon that manipulated the custodes at the council of nikaea. Magnus was prepared to accept his punishment but leman had Horus and valdor in his ear
@@synergy8879 and magnus could have just used a phone instead of causing one of the most catastrophic problems on earth itself that the emperor and thousands of custodians need to work to hold it back and still having to ten thousand years later but you know sure if we gonna say that
While I admit that I’m not the biggest fan of the chaos marine legions I will admit that there are plenty of chaos marine characters I love. This video proving that Ahriman is one of them.
Brother, can you please do a video breaking down the ranks and roles in accordance of the codex astartes including breaking down types of captains like the first captains role
*Me who used to love the Thousand Sons just because they looked cool and colorful watching this video.* "Ah hell yeah even more of a reason to love them!"
One thing that I always thought was sad about the Thousand Sons is Magnus' bad behavior gets passed down to his sons. Arrogance, but a flavor of, "Since I'm the best, I know what must be done to solve this problem." which ends up making it worse. Magnus destroying the Webway Project while being told by the Emperor to cut that psyker shit out was his big moment. Ahriman was told by Magnus to "Cut that finding a cure to the flesh change shit out." and caused the Rubric. I don't remember the sorcerer's name, but in the third Mephiston book, the lead bad guy was trying to start a spell to help Magnus materialize the Planet of the Sorcerers into real space. Mephiston screwed his plan over, which caused Magnus' plan to be heavily delayed.
The interesting tidbits you can pick up here and there about the Thousand Suns usually turn out to be tragic. Take Ahriman, for example. In ADB's second Abaddon novel, Khayon (a former Thousand Son who is now basically Abaddon's chief assassin) talks about how Ahriman believes himself to be unchanged by Tzeentch even after all this time. He goes on to say he's seen the screaming void where Ahriman's face used to be. Apparently wielding awesome warp magic for ten millennia can fuck with your head a wee bit, figuratively and literally.
What I find most stupid about the council of Nikaea and the Primarchs hatred of psykers and the warp. Is that ALL the Primarchs are Warp tainted Psyker’s and ALL, except maybe Angron, severly benefitted from their own latent warp powers and psyker talents. Sure, Magnus flagrantly used his powers unnecessarily, and I agree he should of been limited through sanction. But to disband the whole Librarius? when it was an overall net=positive towards the understanding, training, discipline, and mental conditioning it takes, and benefitted warp safety overall. Then after disarming his astartes of this significant arsenal, he now expects them to go into battle against opponents that are willing to use the same arsenal of battle psykers and tactics of warp magic, in which he has prevented his warriors from using. Which is then made even worse because the Librarius and the Librarians units it produced where the most effective countermeasure and defense against enemy psykers that the legions had available to them. Its as if Big E wanted them all to get corrupted.
Majorkill! How about a retelling 9f a brightdark setting of 'Imperium Assendant' it poses questions like 'what if the primarchs never were scattered' 'what if the emperor was a loving, caribg father' 'loyalist night lords.. the fuck?'
What the thousand sons are literally the epitome of pride goeth before the fall. There insane amount of arrogance and failure to head the word of others caused this. They did it to themselves. Angron did nothing to himself and they forced the nails upon him. We can all argue whether or not the nails could have been implanted on another primarch in the same situation. We know that Angron wasn’t supposed to be that way. The blood angels were supposed to be that legion but the great angel chose another path because of his upbringing. Angron had no choice he was subjugated from childhood. We learn from the last siege book that magnus still has no respect or accountability. Magnus was allowed a billion chances even after he had embraced the chaos the big E and malcador would still take him. His sons have always been damned and that’s magnus pitfall. His arrogance and lack of integrity. The emperor told him his trial and he still failed. He was supposed to return to terra. Allow his legion to be culled and remade. All would be forgiven and move forward. He is the entire reason the heresy ended like it did. He is the entire reason that the big E had to become the one thing he hated in order to protect humanity. All of this is magnus fault. If he would have sat on the throne so the big E could do his thing the whole siege/heresy would have been over. Literally even if all the primarchs turned if the webway wouldn’t have been broken through the big E could have smacked all his sons. The webway failure because of magnus is the reason why.
This might be my favorite of all your videos! Thanks for shining a spotlight onto the nobility & accompanying tragedy of the oft-maligned Thousand Sons -- who happen to be my favorite Legion.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
To be honest, I didn't have "feeling bad for immortal Space Wizards" on my bingo card for 2023 but here we are
What I did have however was the Majorkill Plush 2.0 : www.makeship.com/products/majorkill-plush-2
Everyone who buys can request a free video message
Hey majorkill. I just found out about your mini series homebrew adventures with the "reject space marine captains" it's one of the funniest things I've watched in recent memory
you can also argue that the emperor messed up double by not having a high speed line for emergencys tbh. if he would have had a emergency line then magnus would have never breached the webway.
After all that, it was still Erebus fault, #BlaimErebus
In the 42nd Millenium the Thousand Sons are back to full Legion numbers (recruiting Psykers) while the Wolves are down to 700 non-Primaris Marines!
Hello Majorkill,
Would you please make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, the Ecclesiarchy, and the High Lords of Terra? Pretty please? Thank you.
Currently reading The Crimson King and 30k Ahriman is literally the perfect Space Marine psyker.
Gets his men to train and work without their psychic abilities to keep their skills sharp and prepared if they're ever caught without them.
Encourages caution against overuse of their abilities and fully acknowledges the risks of being a psyker.
Insists the legion are Astartes first and psykers second.
Was willing to train mortals to use their gifts but made sure they were well aware of the risks.
Also the main dude to council against whatever dumb shit Magnus wants to try because he's literally OP.
Magnus may have saved them from the flesh change (temporarily) but that's about all the good he did for them. They were what you want from a psychic legion.
Big E royally fucked up at the Council of Nikea though, a sensible compromise of the librarius was literally offered up.
Should of listened to the Khan he was actually quite level headed and reasonable why did the big E distrust him so much?
@@MusMasi He was meant to betray, but Chegorah switched him and Fulgrim I believe.
@@MusMasi 2 reasons. 1.) it’s suspected he was meant to betray Big E rather than Fulgrim but the Honk God with a hard to pronounce name swapped them, 2.) Khan wasn’t secretive of his dislike of the Imperium. Legit, if Horus rebelled and didn’t have chaos with him I legit think he would have joined Horus,
@@wesleyfravel5149 Sorry what is a Honk?
@@AzraelSoulHunter wish there was more material on the Khan, he had some sick burns.
Magnus's fall could have been avoided with the Emperor having a five minute chat about what was going on.
Exactly. In my opinion if the emperor had talked to Magnus before he left the great Crusade for his Webway project a lot of The Horus Heresy could have been avoided but Magnus inherited not just the emperor's prowess as a psycher but also his arrogance.
@@zachbahamutson5477 Alot of problems could of been solved if the Emperor made better decisions
The entire Horus heresy could have been avoided if the emperor actually explained what chaos was to his sons
Maybe he knew Magnus was being manipulated by chaos and could no longer be trusted.
@@slip6699 which is why he should of told him what chaos was and what they were doing. Alot of stuff chaos has pulled off has been because most people have no idea of what their getting into.
Ahriman is awesome. He is so damn ruthless and powerful and has actual goals and wants to save his brothers.
Magnus and Angron got the most tragic fates they definitely deserved better its why they’re my fav Traitor Primarchs including Perturabo.
I'm 100% convinced if Khorne did not intrinsically hate Psykers, the World Eaters and Thousand Sons would be firm allies. No two legions got screwed over by the Imperium (and their own Primarchs) more.
Perty is easily my favorite traitor primarch without him there would be no heresy they would have lost after like a week.
Magnus is the best primarch. Not the best traitor primarch, the best one of all.
Poor fella.
@@jonsalvadori6275 agreed
@@gwilym1991 Nah, the Thousand Sons are genuinely disgusted by a majority of the other Chaos legions, because unlike the other Chaos legions that went willingly to the Dark Gods the Thousand Sons had literally no choice, if they could they would have stayed loyal to the Imperium, not to mention that characters like Ahriman don't worship the Chaos Gods and even actively work against them.
What I'm trying to say, The (original) Thousand Sons dislike the other Chaos legions because they became monsters, the TS were forced to be.
Prospero is my fav HH conflict because of its tragedy and as it covers my fav factions, as well.
Magnus was about to stay to his failures but even messed that one up.
Imagine if he'd surrendered himself to Russ right away to protect his sons.
The Sons could still be loyal and shift the entire power balance within the heresy.
Magnus never could have surrendered since Horus convinced Leman that the Big E's orders changed and that he wanted Magnus executed now.
@@729060 If you've read the Burning of Prospero, Leman Russ pleads with Magnus to surrender himself to be brought to Terra. However, the psychic communications to Prospero were blocked off by Magnus.
The man had orders to kill a man he despises which at the time he thought legit and yet still gave him chance to surrender only to be treated with "blocked call" no wonder he flipped of and choose genocide. You try to come peacefully to a potential traitor during civil war only from your POV to get ignored? Yeah...
Whenever Magnus tries to do something good, like surrendering himself, it just goes horribly wrong.
@@drxtale9446 yeah he probably would’ve tripped and fallen on lemans sword or something😂
Thousand Sons even still have their Prospero Spireguard, consisted of human disciplined soldiers which they actually respect. Not to mention Magnus and Thousand Sons actually were close friends with the most cool and chill Primarchs and their legions, Jaghatai Khan and Sangunius.
There was also a confrantation between Konrad Curze and Magnus. Konrad wanted to bomb and destroy the conquered planets library, where Magnus and Thousand Sons were desperately trying to shield and protect it. In the end, Magnus had to relent.
During the Horus Heresy, Siege of Terra, Mortarion and Magnus were ordered to attack Imperial Palace together with their Legions. When the Primarchs met, Magnus greeted Mortarion with respect and kindness. Eventhough Mortarion hated his guts. Magnus even casted some sort of healing spell on Mortarion that somewhat eased his pain and cleared his blurry vision. Mortarion somewhat appreciated this gesture. Now granted there was a bit of subtle manipulation on Magnus’s part as he wanted Mortarion to perform well so he could be a good distraction while he infiltrated the palace itself… but still i would like to think there is still some part of goodness left in him.
Magnus never really had any malice towards anyone. Not until all the anti-psycher shit started to happen. He and his legion were benevolent by nature. But their downfall ultimately came from their unique powers which caused them to be arrogant. Especially Magnus. He thought, with his great wisdom and psychic gifts, he knew better than most. Sometimes even more than the emperor. He shared the same dream with the emperor. But alas.. its a cruel and tragic universe. The road to hell is paved by good and noble intentions.
FUN FACTS: Some Thousand Son sorcerers even believed they could cure the Butchers Nails
Jaghatai trusted Magnus so much that when the Horus Heresy started and the Khan had just gotten back from kicking the ass of the remnants of Ork Empires, he went to Prospero to ask him wtf was going on before he chose a side the coming conflict. But he was too late because Prospero had already been destroyed by the Space Wolves which furthered his confusion of the situation when the Wolves asked for aid from the Alpha Legion.
The absolute surprise and severe despair of the conversation that the fragment of Magnus that Magnus had left behind with the Khan is really telling in how screwed things were with the Thousand Sons.
The Khan was the last person "Magnus" had expected to meet, but since they were so close it made it all the more tragic that the Khan had to choose between his only friends and the Imperium.
@@peterbarca8783 It was quite sad indeed. Magnus was his closest friend. They both shared a common interest scholarly and artistic pursuits. Jaghatai did warn Magnus about the dangers of the warp. If only he would heed his words
@@Eliphas_ wasn't Perturabo a really good friend of Magnus as well? That's why he felt betrayed when the only thing the Emperor asked him to build instead of besiege was a temporary court for Magnus.
@@staringgasmask I think so.. can't remember much. Perturabo always wanted to build works of art rather than weapons of destruction. Its one of the reasons he was so bitter
The thing is: can we truly blame Magnus for his arrogance? He was so involved with the Warp that his view of the world must have been shaped by it, plus Tzeentch clearly manipulated his circumstances so that he would grow arrogant.
His flaws were as much of a product of his development as his virtues. The man needed a guide and a father, but the Emperor saw him as a tool first and a son second.
Recently read "a thousand sons" and it really made me appreciate Magnus and his legion. I really feel bad for them. I'm not on the team of "Magnus did nothing wrong" but I definetely understand where they are coming from now.
Thats a good book on par with Mechanicum especially at the end where everything is coming apart.
I did somethings wrong
He really didn’t do anything wrong though.
literally the whole thing could have been easily fucking avoided if the emperor let magnus into his inner circle and explained his decisions. Magnus would have probably even gone with it and temporary stopped his experimentation with the warp if he was just reasoned with and he fucking deserved it given how important he was in emperors grand plan and that important pretty much being above the other primarchs with the possible exception of Guilliman.
@@cropathfinder The emperor may have a galaxy brain but he has zero people skills.
My favorite legion. An important detail though: the Emperor told the Wolves to arrest Magnus and the 1k Sons, not kill them. But iirc Horus intercepted the signal and told the Wolves to destroy them.
10:20 this Astartes was Phosis T'kar who was captain of the 3rd brotherhood i think. He was a really OP thousand son and during the battle of prospero he was actually disappointed at how easy it was for him to kill custodes. When he saw leman massacring his brothers he unleashed his full power and went after him, killing many of lemans bodyguards however valdor stepped infront of him (its worth noting that at this point T'kar was so hyped on warp juice that he knows he could kill valdor right at that moment if he wanted too) but T'kar had fully succumbed to the flesh change and was now an ugly ass eldritch horror, realising this and understanding the true fate of the legion he allowed valdor to strike him down. Honestly a really badass thousand sons and one of my favourites
man was so juiced up on that warp spaghetti he was like “i could blast him with the full might of the warp but, i realize that i’m currently a giant fucking monster.”
Yeah he was an absolute beast. Ahriman is obviously the most chill, cool down to earth one but Phosis Tkar was the one in that book that got me hyped
The Thousand Sons don't deserve their fate, just like Yarrick doesn't deserve his previous model to be his last, Majorkill please make a mini dedicated to the late Old Man of Armageddon
Thousand Sons my beloved
Jokes aside, I really wish more people were into Thousand Sons - I love their story and the tragedy of their fall, especially the tragedy of Magnus.
Shame you didn't mention Phosis T'kar, he was an absolute unit.
They have some really outstanding characters and Magnus is a very interesting and intricate character (one of my favorite Primarchs in the lore). It does seem like a bit of a "miss" to the lore and storyline that the TS were shit-canned in this way.
Many people ARE into Thousand Sons. Have you seen how Space Wolves are shit on everywhere?
@@AzraelSoulHunter Wolves in 30k were bunch of cunts so they deserve it, but 40k wolves are much more likeable
@@siberian4097 Read A Thousand Sons once.
@@AzraelSoulHunter I feel as if the Wolves get shit on for non-TS related reason - from the admitably overdone "furry" jokes to other things - like the shitty wolf-this wolf-that naming - but they get a lot of fans too and I feel as if GW gives the Wolves a good spotlight and practical "plot armour" in some stories. Still love the Wolves.
I want to point out that Magnus is currently making a sanctuary for psykers while rebuilding Prospero, not murdering and pillaging and dominating like Abaddon or infecting billions like Mortarion. Considering how shitty the Imperium treats Psykers, Magnus' psyker empire is truly the best possible thing if you are one. And after the Great Rift forming, there's a shit ton more psykers than ever before. And many non psykers end up just becoming Tzaangors which isn't all that bad either.
I know this comes off incredibly bias, but I really do think the nascent Prospero 2.0 is probably the best place to be in the current timeline.
Prospero 2.0 definitely isn't the worst place.
If it wasn't for the whole 'removing your own eye' thing as a right of passage to get there...
imagine if all of this, the figth with girlyman, etc was just an over elaborate plan to force the imperium to acept the thousand sons back and preparing girlyman towards the dangers of the warp in a way he could not refuse, this would explain while magnus loose against guilliman and all the convoluted plans he and his sons are in
@@HorizonIsHere1337 like
Is losing a eye
Or dying
For me ir is worth
Don't worry. The Imperium will fuck it up. We'll get a second burning of Prospero because the Imperium can't have the moralle problem of a human territory that isn't complete shit that people could just leave and go join. Especially not the psykers who are juicy human sacrifices that the Emperor needs to eat the souls of.
magnus accepts all manner of psykers and mutants into the planet of the sorcerers, and now that it isnt in the warp anymore, its probably not thaaaaaat bad to live there, but there is probably still a chance you just get sacrificed or experimented on
What I love the most is how, just as Magnus was arrogant during Council, so was the Emperor, thinking that he can just "ban" many people to not be themselves while he finishes his project.
Malcador when Magnus broke the human webway: “GOOD GRIEF HE’S NAKED!!!”
Slaanesh: “Hey Tzeentch, love what your doing with Magnus, can’t wait to crash the Imperial Webway. But if I could make one suggestion….”
"The knowledge of sorcery is like sea water, the more that is drunk, the thirstier the drinker becomes, and the more surely they are poisoned." - Kva 'He who is Divided', Caster of Runes from the Space Wolves
Interesting statement from an ironic source
I guess he would know
Magic bad - Viking wizard.
It's an interesting perspective when it comes to Warp. When scientific outlook is often favored when compared to religious one when it comes to the Warp the more religious and "superstitious" way of treating it is actually a favorable way of doing it and science is something that is prone to dooming you.
Space Wolves: "Magic bad"
Also Space Wolves: "I'm literally going to create a giant storm using warp spaghetti"
Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would have reacted to being in Guillimans position would be pretty cool ngl , seeing how they react to the new religious imperium, suppressed disappointment like Guilliman or anger and rage?
I read Talon of Horus about Abbapussy but the main character is a Thousand Sons sorcerer and talks about the fall of Prospero and how the Rubric Marines came to be. The Thousand sons are heartbroken on losing their brothers, somehow in a 40k story the author conveyed just deep sorrowful loss. Like losing a loved family member, and to be tricked by Tzeench the surviving Thousand Son sorcerer are split, most of them fucking hate what happened but some felt it was necessary.
The Rubic marines are these dead, animated golems, but there's that little piece of a soul left inside them and they talk, and it's just how the dialogue was written but it's heartbreaking hearing them comply with the orders Khayon is giving them like that last bit of humanity Tzeench couldn't rip out of them is doing it out of love.
Highly recommend for other nerds, very good read.
I’ve always read Magnus’ choice of suicide by Space Wolves as the best option, Big E was being absolutely blind thinking they could bring the Thousand Sons in. Magnus at this point had seen the true Tzeencth who might have been the peak of his power in lore with all the change and things in motion of the Heresy. He knew many of his sons would not accept chains especially from Space Wolves and would have fought or caused more subtle problems.
Magnus now knew his legion was basically a bunch of little chaos bombs only a few could straight up resist the change if Tzeencth willed it against them. If they got on the Space Wolves ships and entered the warp the Space Wolves would have been eradicated and the Thousand Sons would have fallen all the same. Tzeencth would hit them with a warp storm so hard because he’s not letting his little pet project slip away. Then imagine the battle of Prospero constrained to ships were if a gellar field goes down suddenly the full might and demons of the warp could join them. Only Russ and a handful of plot protected souls would have fought out of that and we know Magnus wouldn’t have escaped with Russ because he felt incapable to leave his boys to their fate.
Tzeencth might have been at his most powerful and still ended up with the most broken soul shattered of the chaos primarchs and a resentful super weakened legion. Thousand Sons were born with Tzeencth’s hand up their asses and he still had to break every single one of them to get them dancing to his bullshit.
This perspective makes me hate the way The Burning of Prospero is written slightly less.
Learning Ahriman was really the good guy all along was the heresy I never knew I needed
Being a 40k noob I thought the blue Egyptian guys that explode into purple dust were cool enemies in the new game so I looked up the lore and now I have depression. 10/10.
Yeah.
The Thousand Son were the army that initially introduced and brought me into the hobby so there will always be a soft spot in my heart for them, though I'm a Dark Eldar player to the core nowadays
I love how he goes on and on about all the stuff the Thousands sons did to keep their sorcery in check and just conveniently forgets to mention Magnus was the one who taught them all of it 😂
A lot of it. But they had knowledge on Prospero before he arrived, and they also acquired and researched more information in their expeditions across the Galaxy.
And they were NOT careful about it at all. Some of them were straight up doing chores with it, like cleaning their guns. They were not careful about it.
He made the point the primarch was at fault not the troops,
@@V.B.Squire and I wasn’t commenting on that so I don’t see your point.
Dan Abnett was asked in an interview and his response was just "he's a dick!"
Thousand Sons have some of the best Traitor Marine characters. Ahriman is incredibly strong and is so ballsy he wants to run Caegorache's pockets to reverse his Rubric while Khayon is just a badass in all ways by casually making Magnus kneel and being such a Chad not even the Inquisition killed him on sight when he "surrendered" to them.
A flash of insight struck Yvraine. ‘Ahzek Ahriman!’ she shouted, ‘I have that which you seek. I can restore your brethren!’
A stone’s throw away, the Visarch cut at the webway’s exterior with the Sword of Silent Screams, but he could not scratch it. The Yncarne hissed in pain to her flank, trailers of purple mist unwinding from its body as it was dissolved by the aether behind.
‘And why should I believe that?’ came the sorcerous voice in Yvraine’s head. ‘You have no power here, in my new domain.’ She felt white heat as something loomed behind, the fell gaze of godly eyes burning down upon her with terrible, inhuman focus.
‘Open your eyes!’ she cried, secretly praying to Ynnead that her desperate gambit would work. She pressed her hands upon the psychocrystal of the webway’s exterior, focussed on the armoured Legionaries within, and reversed the cycles of their existence.
A dozen of the Thousand Sons Rubric Marines, previously levelling firepower into the Reborn with the emotionless efficiency of automatons, staggered backwards as if struck. They looked at one another, clutched their hearts, and fell back, rallying around Ahriman before taking up the defensive stances of the Emperor’s Legiones Astartes. Yvraine could just make out their words as they frantically sought to make sense of their situation.
‘Ahzek? Is that you, brother?’
‘Where are the Athenaeans? These are Eldar we face this day!’
‘In the name of Magnus, what is going on?’
Ahriman shook his head as if stunned, his wide shoulders shaking uncontrollably with mirth, grief, or a mixture of the two. He brought his cupped hands together once more and yanked Ynnead’s luminaries downward with a shout of pure exultation.
A lurch of the stomach, and Yvraine suddenly found herself in the swirling tide of battle once more, the Visarch and the Yncarne quickly taking up positions behind her.
‘Do it,’ she said to her companions, siphoning the rich reservoir of Eldar life force that flooded the tunnels into a single burst of invigorating energy. In a flash, the Iyandeni giant Soulseeker was there, trailing white flame as his wraithblade carved a chasm through the crystal of the webway’s superstructure with an ear-splitting scream. Stepping to the edge of the fissure, the Yncarne opened its maw impossibly wide. It inhaled so mightily the resurrected Thousand Sons were drawn towards it, stumbling over the edge of the chasm to fall away into the void beneath. Ahriman screamed in denial, riding his disc after them on a trail of fire.
‘The Whispering God gives new life,’ said Yvraine as her Reborn surged forward around her for the kill, ‘just as he takes life away.’
This scene always stuck with me. Ahriman becoming very emotional after seeing his brothers turn back to flesh and blood after thousands of years.
(Gathering Storm: Fracture of Biel-Tan)
Always felt for Ahriman but especially here. Yvraine accomplished what he's been trying for 10,000 years only to kill his reborn brothers in front of him.
That was cruel even by Eldar standards.
Which novel is this?
Only to lose them seconds later. If i were in his shoes i'd go mad with rage.
God damn, I cannot begin to imagine what went through Ahriman's head after that. Which novel does this come from?
Which book is this from again? Rather than pickup book 3 of the Ahriman trilogy today I was possibly going to grab another sons novel, next month may finish the Ahriman trilogy. Switch it up maybe
Loyal thousand sons were epic.
Loyal Magnus at his prime was the kind of good guy you’d want by your side.
One of the best and tragic tales to come out of black library
"The minds of gods are not for mortals to know, or to judge. Accept that Tzeentch has a place for all of us in his grand scheme, and be happy in the part you have to play."
- Proclamation of Magnus the Red to the Thousand Sons
This is especially heartbreaking as we see magnus turn from a hopeful, slightly naive man, to a depressed and cynical person who has given up hope.
@@JC-uz3ey Well to be fair he went from thinking he is one of the most powerfull beings whose actions define the fate of the galaxy to rapidly become instrument of its downfall and living with the revelation that even at his best he was just a dog in the leash of Tzeentch. Having that moment of clarity that at your most powerful you were little better than a mouse in a maze. and he lost his Noble Shard even tho Malcador deemed he didnt need it Magnus didnt agree.
I approve of this comment.
The Thousand Sons were doomed from the beginning the moment Tzeentch placed the Flesh Change curse upon their geneseed.
People just assume it was my fault. I mean, yes it is, but it'd be a pretty boring story without it, wouldn't it.
Stopping the thousands sons from using Psyker powers in like taking away mr incredible’s strength
i recently finished fury of magnus and it had 2 really cool moments for the red man the 1st was saving some refugees from getting crushed by debris and the second was him rejecting the emperor's chance to rejoin the loyalist all because he didn't want to lose his sons in place of a new legion. he may be bad now but magnus is still awesome in some ways or at least was.
I ... didn't know anything except that Space Wolves attacked them. I guessed that they were doing bad sorcery or something.
...damn! This is on another level entirely! Thank you for this!
the summary of magnus the red's story. : good intentions paved his road to hell
Magnus didn't mess up the Fall of Prospero by shutting himself away. He messed it up when he couldn't hold to his convictions and decided to fight anyway. Like his brother Pertuabo, Magnus assumed that the Emperor would never forgive him and that his only option was to betray him or be destroyed. He chose to die rather than betray his father, unlike Pertuabo. He handicapped his legion to ensure minimal casualties to the loyalists when they attacked because he knew Horus wanted to destroy two loyal legions at the same time. The tragedy is that even though Horus told Russ to destroy the Thousand Sons, it still could have been avoided if Magnus hadn't assumed that there was no hope for himself and his legion.
if he didn't "handicap" the defenders they would have utterly wiped out the space wolves if it wasn't for custodes & other supporting elements. The OG thousands sons were just built different .
Honestly, it was more contrasting convictions. Magnus lvoed and cared for his sons, which was why he bartered his eye away in the first place. Dude fought when he couldn't bear to hear them suffer anymore.
This just makes me wonder what a "Emperor sides with Magnus" timeline would look like, because him aggravating the anti-psyker primarchs enough would be an absolutely hilarious way for all the demon primarchs to be originally anti-psyker.
i love the space wolf story about the runepriest who had a thousand sons sorcerer in his mind, he leads an expedition to prospero to find some old space wolves, and he forms a "friendship" with the sorcerer and lets him return to his own body, healing it when he did.
How awesome would it be to see the thousand sons flip back to the imperium down the line
That Gold/Red Egyptian aesthetic was also fantastic. I loved their Loyalist color scheme.
Imagine if the Emperor sent the Lion to Prospero instead... or even Gulliman. After Monarchia Gulliman would try ANYTHING to avoid hurting another brother like that and exhaust every diplomatic option.
The Khan? Oh right he did not trust him.
Russ tried to hail Magnus, but there were no answer. Lion and Guillinan would have done the same as Russ, because they would follow order of the warmaster!
If they sending another psychics primarch that would been a different story!
Another one to the list of things Big E fucked up
@@Directo13 actually not exactly. In others primarchs place this would have gone wayyyy different.
In guilamans case he would have went down with some of his men to see what the hells up with magnus and after this get magnus to chill out and things go way worse in the heresy
Vulkan and sanguinus would likely do the same thing
Lorgar and some of the other traitors already fell so unlikely
Hell jaghatai if he was there would have been better since khan and magnus were bros
@@lolbots686 but the emperor sent his executioners (an official who carries out a sentence of death on a legally condemned person.) if we are going to talk about how arrogant magnus is we need to talk of the arrogats of the emperor.
Seeing as how crucial Magnus was in the Emperor’s plan (being his replacement for the throne), how unbelievably stupid it was to alienate his son, and even to send the one legion you know hated the T-Sons guts.
The conversation Ahriman has with the librarians in “The End & Death vol II” gives even more insight to how the thousand sons were positioning themselves.
The tragedy of the Thousand Sons is one of my favorite parts of 40k. Ahriman is tied up there with Ragnar Blackmane as my favorite character. My two favorite factions caught in a never ending brutal rivalry. Kinda like the rivalry I have with studying and going to school to do something helpful for others and wanting to go out to drink/have fun/ and possibly an impromptu fight with frat dirtbags.
ahhh one of my favourite Pre heresy legions. Amazing guys. They were psykers and they had everything to do with the arcane but they were the most logical lads there. Educated, with academic attidude, cool in character, noble. I really loved them. Their fall in my opinion was one the greatest tragedies in Horus Heresy era
Shit was really harsh for Ahrimab in particular, he even had plans of becoming a wine maker when the crusade was over and was even good friends with regular humans, he was the chillest marine I've seen and then he got thrown in this downward spiral of fuck ups
Magnus is a story of "pride before the fall"
There is so much really good development of Magnus and TS characters in the lore, but I have a hard time embracing them because of their aesthetic and their ridiculous armor. However, spot on video, mate!
Aesthetic of Egyptian priests/ Assyrian sages is kind of interesting. But yes a lot of armor of most Space Marines is over-the-top and ridiculous
I for one welcome the TS armor. It’s an aesthetic I can get behind. That’s the fun of 40k, there’s something for everyone.
@@timunderbakke8756 I completely agree!!!! That is why it is so great! There is something that appeals to everyone!
@@serronserron1320space marines are the Annunakis new version of humans a 2.0 since the last model / generation has failed. 😂
We need the Emperor to beat Tzeentch in *Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker* to win Magnus’ soul back!!
I really wish there where still some loyal thousand sons they are my favorite legion style wise.
i know of one "loyal" sorcerer, technically he has been dead since the horus heresy, but is alive now, cause warp fuckery.
Pshhh. Loyalist Thousand Sons. Nah.
*Redacts the source of Blood Ravens geneseed*
That would be insanity. They might turn into kleptomaniacs or something
IIRC the Soul Drinkers kind of apply
I kind of consider the Grey Knights as their successor. The Grey Knights founding Supreme Grandmaster was the last remaining loyalist Thousand Son fused with the noble aspect of Magnus’ shattered soul. It’s entirely possible that this also explains why the current Supreme Grandmaster Kaldor Draigo appears to be so overpowered.
i still feel magnus isn't as bad as you say he is. Certainly he screwed up, but he's no perturabo. Still good video all around, the thousands sons are easily my favorite traitor legion with the death guard right behind them.
One detail you messed up was at the Trial, everyone besides Mortarion was just giving emotional reasons as their arguments while Magnus was countering them logically. Then Mortarion starts giving a logical, rational argument, which while he does have a bias against psykers after witnessing the horrors of his adoptive father, he was able to concisely describe and explain the dangers of psyker magic. Which led to Magnus getting emotional with the analogy and allegory (anallegory?) and Big E's subsequent approval of the removal. I quite like Mortarion
Video idea each primarchs reaction to chaos and demons
I think it'd be interesting if Magnus were redeemed at some point. I have no idea how that would work with him being a daemon primarch and all, but of all of the traitor primarchs his has always struck me as the fall that could possibly be resolved via some kind of intervention by Big E. Plus in the Dark Imperium novels Guilliman makes it clear that he understands Magnus was done dirty by the Emperor when he was just trying to help, and that Big E's secrecy about Chaos was the real problem.
"Bringing back a primarch" by actually having a traitor renounce Chaos would also be a crazy-ass lore curve ball with fascinating implications - both with what becomes of Magnus, and ALSO how the Imperium would react.
If things had gone differently, the Thousands Sons could easily have remained a Loyalist Legion. After all, Magnus was the only one of the traitor Primarchs who was opposed to Horus at the start, Magnus even tried to warn the Emperor of Horus' betrayal, though this was to be his most reckless move and biggest mistake which turned the Emperor against him and believing that HE was the traitor rather than Horus.
If this one move had gone differently, Magnus might have been one of the most significant of the Loyalist Primarchs who warned of the Horus Heresy before it could get started properly. Too bad Magnus wasn't sensible enough.
Yeah man, now I would call Magnus as dumb as a box of rocks, but that would be an insult to rocks(I stole this joke, the original joke maker is Ali Koca)
@@karvenman true,it also sucks because Magnus despite the arrogance was erudite,yet tzeench still twisted him like a puppet dancing in the night
If the thousand sons weren't massichred or god forbid magnus finally stoped being emo and sulking,the loyalists would have won the heresy no questions asked
While the traitors had perty,aka the ultimate master of siege and defense warfare like dorn,the thousand sons at there best were fucking unreal,and guys like arhiman and khayon were almost nigh primarch tier in might,had many thousand sons stay loyal it would have been a slaughter for the traitors as the thousand sons lay waste to them with the loyalists
@@lolbots686 honestly, if perty and magnus stayed loyal the loyalists would have a much easier time. abbadon who? here, a fucking warp fire kame hame ha from one of the strongest sorcerers in the thousand sons. oh no, the sons of horus and death guard are attacking? here, a massive wall with massive guns that shoot massive missiles at you.
@@synergy8879 for sure,and honestly even if magnus had turned there is a possibility for the thousand sons to remained loyal
My idea is that if leman decided to go down and simply talk to magnus and hear him out about what the hell posessed him to say horus was going crazy,magnus goes with him to confirm,resulting in horus with the traitor sons of horus coming, now with betrayal out,the burning of prospero still happens but instead of russ massichring innocents and such, instead magnus and what thousand sons left with arhiman fight a losing battle,but not before magnus warns the many thousand son ships and evacuatees to not trust the warmaster
Resulting in possibly the thousand sons remaining loyal but magnus, likely through exploitation via tzeench or other such goes traitor
I think this is your best video yet, probably because you had a better passion to sarcasm ratio. Keep it up.
The only communication leman tried was the spy he thought magnus sent to fenris the spy actually was sent by a demon, the same demon that manipulated the custodes at the council of nikaea. Magnus was prepared to accept his punishment but leman had Horus and valdor in his ear
He tried to contact him multiple times as well, which Magnus ignored.
@@jeffjohnson4083 but you know. he could have landed on the planet first and investigated.
@@synergy8879 and magnus could have just used a phone instead of causing one of the most catastrophic problems on earth itself that the emperor and thousands of custodians need to work to hold it back and still having to ten thousand years later but you know sure if we gonna say that
MajorKill you need to get on the PKA podcast you’d kill it joking around with them.
I'm so glad I subbed to you a few years ago you've helped me really get into 40k and allowed me to brainwash my friends into it via warp sorcery
"The thousand sons existed, this would later bite them in the ass in a horrible way."
Long have we waited for this video and it shall be added to our galactic library. All is dust
0:16 Have I ever told you the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise?
All things been said and done Phosis T’kar’s tiger knee to a sister of battle was dope af
While I admit that I’m not the biggest fan of the chaos marine legions I will admit that there are plenty of chaos marine characters I love. This video proving that Ahriman is one of them.
Major please release new video soon i had to skip this once cuz it was too sad i couldnt handle it
When you name your sorcerous planet after a Shakespearean magus, you are inviting drama to your doorstep.
MajorKill is the best War Hammer TH-camr.
the thousand sons and prospero burns are two of my favorite 40k books, i love this !
Can we have an Emperor Palpatine vs Chaos infused Horus pls
Hey. Real talk about the plush. The first was great quality. If this one is the same, it will be a real treat. Love them.
Good to see you finally giving the 15th some love!
Brother, can you please do a video breaking down the ranks and roles in accordance of the codex astartes including breaking down types of captains like the first captains role
Agreed the thousand sons are my favourite legion and them falling to Chaos was heartbreaking
My Thousand Sons legion and Corvidea Cult tattoos appreciate this video.
I have a million dollar idea. Make a MajorKill vs. Weshammer M.M.A. pay per view. I'd buy that. Lol.
Fancy Watch You Got There Majorkill.
*Me who used to love the Thousand Sons just because they looked cool and colorful watching this video.*
"Ah hell yeah even more of a reason to love them!"
You should cover the Sabbat worlds crusades
One thing that I always thought was sad about the Thousand Sons is Magnus' bad behavior gets passed down to his sons. Arrogance, but a flavor of, "Since I'm the best, I know what must be done to solve this problem." which ends up making it worse. Magnus destroying the Webway Project while being told by the Emperor to cut that psyker shit out was his big moment. Ahriman was told by Magnus to "Cut that finding a cure to the flesh change shit out." and caused the Rubric. I don't remember the sorcerer's name, but in the third Mephiston book, the lead bad guy was trying to start a spell to help Magnus materialize the Planet of the Sorcerers into real space. Mephiston screwed his plan over, which caused Magnus' plan to be heavily delayed.
The interesting tidbits you can pick up here and there about the Thousand Suns usually turn out to be tragic.
Take Ahriman, for example. In ADB's second Abaddon novel, Khayon (a former Thousand Son who is now basically Abaddon's chief assassin) talks about how Ahriman believes himself to be unchanged by Tzeentch even after all this time. He goes on to say he's seen the screaming void where Ahriman's face used to be. Apparently wielding awesome warp magic for ten millennia can fuck with your head a wee bit, figuratively and literally.
This may be your best video ever. The son's were played about as hard as Horus.
Could you make a vid about everything that can happen to a soul after death?
Pride goeth before the fall... but who's pride among the countless guilty came first to smack the dominoes for these poor warriors?
0:02 Ahhh. The good old Horus Heresy summed up.
I want more TS units man. Best design out of any legion. Rubric marines go hard and the Scarabs are so sexy.
Great video mate 😁👍
You really cover some great topics on your channel
Majorkill, what do you think of the theory that the blood ravens were created of remnants of tge thousand sons?
@9:30 I don’t think Lemon would have taken him peaceful. He had been given the executioner “okay” by Horus - he wanted to shed blood.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I have absolutely loved the Thousand Sons lore since the 2nd ed Chaos codex back in the 90s.
What I find most stupid about the council of Nikaea and the Primarchs hatred of psykers and the warp.
Is that ALL the Primarchs are Warp tainted Psyker’s and ALL, except maybe Angron, severly benefitted from their own latent warp powers and psyker talents.
Sure, Magnus flagrantly used his powers unnecessarily, and I agree he should of been limited through sanction.
But to disband the whole Librarius? when it was an overall net=positive towards the understanding, training, discipline, and mental conditioning it takes, and benefitted warp safety overall.
Then after disarming his astartes of this significant arsenal, he now expects them to go into battle against opponents that are willing to use the same arsenal of battle psykers and tactics of warp magic, in which he has prevented his warriors from using.
Which is then made even worse because the Librarius and the Librarians units it produced where the most effective countermeasure and defense against enemy psykers that the legions had available to them.
Its as if Big E wanted them all to get corrupted.
“Magic is like my beer. The more you drink it, The more y want to kick you in the balls”
-Leman Russ (probably)
THANKS for this videos! thats why the sons are my army! of course the mortal wounds are also not bad 😅
Counterpoint: coolest looking traitor marines
Thousand Sons are my favorite faction and yes they didn't deserve what happened (and personally me, also Daddy Magi Magic)
What a timing, i just end reading the Thousand Son in the Robutian Heresy.
LETS GOOOOOO ANOTHER THOUSAND SONS VID
Majorkill! How about a retelling 9f a brightdark setting of 'Imperium Assendant' it poses questions like 'what if the primarchs never were scattered' 'what if the emperor was a loving, caribg father' 'loyalist night lords.. the fuck?'
As an old space wolf, this made me lament
What the thousand sons are literally the epitome of pride goeth before the fall. There insane amount of arrogance and failure to head the word of others caused this. They did it to themselves. Angron did nothing to himself and they forced the nails upon him. We can all argue whether or not the nails could have been implanted on another primarch in the same situation. We know that Angron wasn’t supposed to be that way. The blood angels were supposed to be that legion but the great angel chose another path because of his upbringing. Angron had no choice he was subjugated from childhood. We learn from the last siege book that magnus still has no respect or accountability. Magnus was allowed a billion chances even after he had embraced the chaos the big E and malcador would still take him. His sons have always been damned and that’s magnus pitfall. His arrogance and lack of integrity. The emperor told him his trial and he still failed. He was supposed to return to terra. Allow his legion to be culled and remade. All would be forgiven and move forward. He is the entire reason the heresy ended like it did. He is the entire reason that the big E had to become the one thing he hated in order to protect humanity. All of this is magnus fault. If he would have sat on the throne so the big E could do his thing the whole siege/heresy would have been over. Literally even if all the primarchs turned if the webway wouldn’t have been broken through the big E could have smacked all his sons. The webway failure because of magnus is the reason why.
This might be my favorite of all your videos! Thanks for shining a spotlight onto the nobility & accompanying tragedy of the oft-maligned Thousand Sons -- who happen to be my favorite Legion.
Hey majorkill. Keep up the awesome videos. Was wondering if you already posted the winners of your painting competition. Cheers
Absolutely great seeing my favorite dusty bois getting some love