In this video i talk about the pros and cons of owning a Porsche vs BMW , i talk about expenses vs handing and reliability Porsche VS BMW THE REAL TRUTH 💰💰💰
996 and a 3-series here. The BMW costs me at least twice as much to keep it going. Besides the Porsche, best car I ever had (mechanically) was a Mazda 6. Not spectacular, but while we had it, it seemed indestructible.
I am biased because I bought a '04 Cayenne a little while back in great condition, with only 50k miles on the motor because it was replaced by the former owner when scoring became an issue (they also fixed a bunch of other common issues in their almost 20 years of ownership). Now I'm working on setting it up as an overland vehicle and it is far cheaper than an equivalently capable jeep. Even without lockers the Porsche traction management system brakes any tire without traction keeping you moving forward (basically equivalent to having limit slip differentials front and rear, but far better on road performance). And with only a minor change trimming the wheel well you can fit 32" tires comfortably which I think is about the size they ran in the Transiberian rally ($100 eurowise kit to replace the wheel well liner you cut out). To me, a great vehicle to set up for over-landing at a very reasonable price. And once set up with these really basic mods, they look and preform great. I've also seen modified examples selling for decent money when you consider how cheaply you can pick up a good stock example. Gotta be careful and find one with an owner who took care of it. But I think folks underestimating the Cayenne by focusing on its stock value as a mall crawler rather than its utility value as an off-road vehicle. Plus its just cool off-roading in a v8 powered Porsche with 7,500 lbs towing capacity, a state of the art (for the time) triptronic transmission, heated leather seats, premium sound as well as various touches of quality ranging from wood accents and the weight of the sun roof shade, to better noise isolation in the cab and quick/powerful window motors.
I have an '85 3.2 Carrera that I've owned since 1996. I love it as much as, if not more than, the day I got it. I've concurrently owned an e36 coupe, an e34 5spd, an e46 coupe, and an e46 xi wagon. My personal rule was never, ever, with no exceptions, buy a BMW with a V8. The xi wagon was a fantastic car. In my experience, BMW has AWD figured out better than pretty much anyone. I had a Subaru Forester (yes, I know) as a company car, and Subaru's AWD was nowhere near as good as BMW's X Drive. That said, the BMW's were far more fragile and needy. Idle Control Valves, coil packs, control arm bushings, thrown belts, the list of petty, bullshit annoyances goes on. Oh, and if you can't abide check engines lights that appear and disappear randomly, and for no clear reason, BMWs are not for you. Until the Panamera came along, I always used to say that BMWs were meant for guys who had kids, or whose wives wouldn't let them have a Porsche.
Thanks Nathan - enjoy all your Porsche videos, all good info. In my own experience, I've owned a 2005 Boxster and a 2011 Cayman, both base models, both manual. Being a non-mechanic, I bought both as Porsche dealer CPO cars, had them dealer serviced, and sold them when the CPO warranties expired. Not sure that formula would work well in today's economy, given current pricing. Both were immensely enjoyable and satisfying to drive.
I have owned an M series BMW car, and currently have 4 BMW motorbikes. The older models are more serviceable. My Porsche Cayman 981 is in a totally different league and is a far more enjoyable drive and also far easier to service myself.
I went to a Porsche track day with my car, there was a guy there with a Turbo S, he also did track day charity events. He said guys show up at the charity events with Ferraris, R8s and Lamborghinis and half of them go home on flatbeds with check engine lights or limp mode. Not one Porsche has broken down.
Hey, thank you, Nathan. Appreciate your honesty on BMW and Porsche. I only have a 1 series convertible, but I love it. Not the fastest, but it's still quick. Not an M car, but it's my baby.
Just found your channel recently Nathan, really like the content and format. More information on reducing the expense on a 997 rebuild (did you say $3K?) would be great!
Totally agree. BMW is going through some sort of reliability crisis. They are great cars, but should be leased, not purchased. Porsche's flat 6 cars are nearly as reliable as Toyota's.
@@R26Roman You post that because you know not what you are talking about. The modern 9A1 flat 6 engine used in Porsche sports cars today has none of the problems you mentioned. You are referring to the M96 engine, which....Went out of production in 2008. Hello-?
@@Flies2FLL there is still reports check in with Porsche of America friend.... regardless there are cheaper platforms if you want the same driving experience for a lot less
@@R26Roman Uh, no there are not. The 9A1 has been nearly flawless, you look it up. As to "cheaper platforms", you get what you pay for. Look for a decent 10 year old 981 and you cannot go wrong. And if something does go wrong that you cannot fix yourself, you won't have any trouble finding a shop to work on your Porsche, unlike a BMW. Many shops simply will not work on a BMW built after about 2005. They know that if they repair one, the owner will be back screaming at them the next week when something else goes wrong....
@@Flies2FLL That's funny because I think it's actually the other way around, because shops know no one wants to pay that bill. BMW engines for full rebuild go for 10K or less. Porsche rebuild easily 15K to 20k. The way I see it I rather rebuild an M3 then rebuild a Cayman s. We're not talking about rebuilding a turbo or a GT3 engine. Don't get me wrong I love Porsches it's just the cost it's too high.
I live in Australia and owned both a f80 and a 987.2 Spyder. The Porsche was way more expensive to keep, every year I spent in between 3-5k if nothing major happens. Both cars are capable in different ways just it’s very hard to keep up with the maintenance bills of a Porsche. It’s way cheaper to fix a BMW here in Australia, lots of after market or spare parts available. Also normally there’s a long waiting period to either service and fix a Porsche
After 4 BMWs I’m headed to a 2024 911T base model. I was super lucky to get an allocation that comes in at the end of December. After following your channel for sometime now I’m curious if you would give me you thoughts on the outgoing 992 motors for the long term? About 10 yrs? Thank you.
Seems like a both sides claim 🤔 did they hold their value or are the cheap? What about the hybrid models? Or the diesel? Are you talking about flipping them?
If I didn't love my M5 so much, there is no way I'd still own it. I knew it was a money pit going into ownership though, I didn't expect anything different, helps a lot when you can do the work yourself
The V10? With those seats that hug you to remind you that what a suckered you are 🤣 I rode in one of those once. Have fun checking and adding oil on that thing.
This is the only video where out of country $3k fix for bore score is mentioned, does anybody have any info on this fix? Everywhere the fix seems to cost $20k-30k.
I now own a Cayman, but my previous 2 cars were BMW E46 328 and E36 328 vert. Both very reliable fantastic cars. Those motors were bulletproof and not overly computerised. But I love my Cayman. Completely different car and driving experience.
whoa did i hear that right, you mentioned can do rebuild in the cayman engine (bore scoring damage) for about 3k? would love to hear more about this. touch wood i'll never need to for my 997.1.. but the fear is there lol.
I think Nathan meant only re-sleeving a scored wall for 3k and when shipped out of country. Not complete remove, rebuild, replace. I'm in Canada, has anyone heard of shops to the north who can do this service? It's at 10:40 in the video.
To get a reliable BMW yes you need to get an M car or 5 series and up. Their 2.0 turbo is a literally a throw away engine, in most instances a dealer will not attempt to fix the 2.0 turbo, they remove it, replace it, sometimes they ship the failed engine back to Germany, but some go directly to scrap. I'm nearing retirement and am looking into a car like this, and a Porsche is IMO clearly the better choice. If I weren't going to buy a Porsche, and wanted a sports car, i'd go with a Mustang or a Corvette. They may be domestic, but I know several that have traded a german convertible in for a Mustang and couldn't be happier, top comment is "at least I get to drive the Mustang"
I bought a 2011 F10 N52 528 clean title for $1,600 it needed a new engine I got off LKQ $800 delivered to my house. Long story short I was in it $3,800 and sold it for $8,500 with 150k miles…. Waiting for the funds for my $4,000 E60 M5 it needs another S85 if you want to help a brotha out lol 😂
I have both brands and prefer them for different reasons. for purely driving, I prefer my Boxster. for tooling around ton and doing "normal stuff" I gravitate towards my bmw.
I ordered my first and only Porsche Boxster S in July of 2013, it arrived October of 2013 as a 2014 model. It surpassed all my previous BMWs, 524, 528, 540, Z3. The Z3 was the most reliable of the bunch and a real keeper. I do most of my service except for changing the plugs which are a real PIA to reach. So far with 88k miles, there have been no mechanical problems with the Porsche, and it always gets over 32mpg on the highway. Truly remarkable .
I think you can be really happy with your BMW as long as you NEVER drive a Porsche. I've owned an E46 (328i), E92 (335i), and an F87 M2C. None handled like my '89 944S2. Before I bought the M2C I test drove a 718 GTS 2.5 - AMAZING! I bought the 8 month old M2C because it was $18k cheaper than the 2 year old Porsche. By the time I upgraded the suspension, wheels & tires, brake lines/pads, camber plates, and shift bushing (a must!), and exhaust,I could have bought the 718 and done nothing...maybe an exhaust.
I know this is kind of nitpicky, but I think your blue cayman has the active suspension set up, which I believe is called PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) rather than PSM (Porsche Stability Management). PSM is standard on those 987.1 cars, but the PASM is a hard to find option on a used one. The PASM gives you that option of a softer ride setting that you spoke about in an early video of this car.
I appreciate your opinion Nathan. You have earned credibility on such matters. For me, it's BMW and I drive an OG M2. It uses the final iteration of the N55 but has trick parts brought over from the S55. I have had it for nearly 5 years and it's been rock solid. As an older guy I can't pull off a Porsche 911. People would laugh at me. So I chill and cruise the M2 around Denver and in the mountains and it works for me.
I'd say buy BMW M four seaters for daily use and need Porsche sport cars for weekends and fun, I wouldn't compare M cars to Porsche sports cars they are just different.
I thought this might happen once he started getting into the Porsches. Can't blame him, there is so much bmw content out there. Also, Porsche seems to be the logical step for someone that has already climbed the bmw mountain. New challenge.
What are the most durable German SUVs ? I can deal with maintenance and the odd issue but want to avoid these catastrophic repairs when the vehicle gets older like motor-out repairs or having to replace the entire valve cover with an expensive new one instead of just the gasket. Mercedes? Porsche?
Bmw is a great budget sport vehicle. Junkyards full of good used parts. Probably 100:1 bmw to porsche in junk yards. When working on porsche I always think it's 20 years ago how it's bolted together. Regardless Porsche is sexy but bmw is a budget friendly car if you do a little work yourself and pick well which model you work on. I bought 3 running 540i 6 speeds 1 m sport 03) for less than 5k and 300hp is plenty unless you're a size queen kind of driver who must get pumped hard by maximum power every second which is a young man's reckless game anyway. But whenever u see bmw benz audi porsche I'd say learn a thing or two unless youre Bezos or it's gonna be a 25000 oil change like the Bugatti and right to the comments section. If I can't get some used bits for it easy it's not top of my list. Some microplastics from porsche are surely a mortgage payment.
Nice video Nathan understand the frustration waiting for parts still can't wait for you to get back on the BMW stuff been waiting while have a good one
I've owned a Z4M Coupe and a Cayman 987.1 and I agree with everything you are saying. The Z4M is a great car, but the Porsche is just better it in every category.
Please tell me You Own a Pair of Driving Gloves, otherwise You are not a real Porsche Driver! Actually like this Stereotype of the Porsche Owner and looks cool! I live in Scottsdale AZ and see a lot of Porsche Drivers, especially Younger ones rocking Gloves, lol! 😊
U H H H !!... Im SO PSSD.. NOT ! Truth is the truth.. Porsche very much known as a better rig. Yes, I really enjoy my BMW, so i follow this channel too.. but BMW? it was my Wall-poster dream-car.. I feel like james bond when i walk out to it, or drive it. Ill never care if it Leaks(many times lol), breaks down(hasnt) but i dont care. It IS and Was, a really fun' child's pipe-dream that came to life. Just alot of fun. And to tinker with it never made me angry, I felt the same as when i helped my kids do homework somehow. Just enjoyed the idea of a race-car that needs my attn and also an enjoyment since im a tech, but i get to drive it on the streets daily. Any car a person has should be that way. Porsche is the same.. very cool, just whos dream" it is that counts. great vid.
Seems like the very simple front brake cooling plastic on the Porsche's is very effective. It makes the cars very reliable on the track, and after when you want to drive home.
its easy to code bmw components with free software that's out there. there is lots of support for the BMW.. Sorry but you are absolutely wrong about the software, its not hard and all available online and free. a few hours on any BMW forum. I agree about the BMW being an issue. My son has an 08 335I twin turbo. always has an issue. he is always replacing injectors, ecu coding, etc.. it never runs well for long. WAY faster than my 07 cayman S but he cant complete a track day without spending half the day working on it.
Unless you get a E46/E60/E70 for free there is no way to sort the car and make money on the resale. There are a dozen E46's here in Kansas City that have blown head gaskets and the dumbasses still think the car is worth 3k. The car is worth zero with a blown head gasket.
Bmw are great track cars over Porsches because of cost. Engines are cheaper, rebuilds are cheaper, parts are cheaper. If you want great resell value cars are not it.
Most cars look the same. Not the Porsche. Even the Panamera sedan is unique in it's look. But the 911 and Boxster/Cayman are even more special. I don't want a car that looks like all the rest.
That comment REALLY caught my attention as well. Just found your channel recently Nathan, really like the content and format. More information on reducing the expense on a 997 rebuild would be great!
4 to 5k for nickasil, my guess is 3k is for iron. I believe EBS out of Nevada does iron which I believe is the cheapest option. You'll still have to buy a gasket kit and someone will need to assemble. The expenses come in with "while you're there". Some money can be saved with aftermarket parts but you'll need to have some good knowledge on which parts you can risk.
I agree with what you’re saying. I have a couple e46’s. Don’t think I would ever purchase a newer BMW. Would prefer a Porsche but can’t afford one. Really enjoy your Porsche channel.
Great vid. I have BMW’s (e39, e46, n52 x5) and wrenching isn’t terrible on them. How would you compare wrenching in a cayman, Boxster, or 911 vs a BMW? I learned on BMW’s and find them to have enough space and basic enough to work on myself. Which scanners can code as I never tried ISTA for reasons you stated.
Funny… sold my pristine e46 M3 last year, and after driving a few e90 M3s, I drove an older Boxster S… guess which car is on my driveway now. 👍😂… mid engine is where’s at. 100% agree with you.
I also had a pristine jet black on cinnamon E46 M3, as well as an E36, and E92. I actually enjoyed the E36 the most out of the bunch. I was looking for a Cayman but when I drove the Boxster I was floored by how good it was. I am a very happy camper with a 987.2 Boxster will it will likely stay in my possession for a long time to come.
I think 3 sec in, I knew which one you’d like most 😂 I love Porsche, daily a ‘24 M4 comp Xdrive Cabrio heavily modded, huge fan of the Turbo S as well 🥹❤️
in europe the last bmw that has long life is the 525tds E 39 m51 engine manual gearbox,,,,,, also the e34 with the same motor manual. a 2 valve oil burner my E39 returns 6.3 liter per 100 klm had some 1970,s porsche 911t / 911S /928S all manuals .good cars but not daily drivers ...my last E34 tds had 670,000 klm useing only mobil 1 oil. when i dumped it.
I have a Porsche cayman s. Love it ..also a 430mcoupe I drive bmw .. also a 500cl Merc now there all Good. Porsche my fave second Mercedes .. imo are better than bmw ..bmw are good cars. But I prefer Mercedes now my bmw is 2021 model my Porsche a2009 ( only 50,000 miles) my Merc 2014 40,000 miles my bmw 9,000 miles .l love all the cars my wife hates the Porsche .. but loved the bmw …it’s about choice. I had a Audi ttrs which was a good car as well ..sold that a few years ago ..,but Porsche my fav for looks and the drive
Great content, I'm currently shopping around for a boxster or Cayman and see so many here in LA with usually around 100k on the odo. You mentioned that higher mileage examples are a good sign that the car has had most issues resolved. Hard to find a 2009 and up which I prefer because the cylinders are coated in instead of steel. Any suggestions? Reliability is my main concern
i bought my 07 cayman s with 120K.. its been great, and has over 160K. no issues. i also have a 928 s4 with over 200K. wife drives a cayenne S with 160K.. all the BMW's ive had have lots of issues.
@@stevenbarts330 ...yeah currently have a 128i which runs perfect but really want to try a Porsche. Had SLK' s and Audi TT turbo B4 and miss the 2 seat open top fun. Waiting for the right one to pull the trigger.
Go for a 2009 base Cayman manual. If you can find an S great but they are very rare with the manual. the 987.2 base has still good power, the engines are bulletproof, and manuals are easier to come by. If you don't want manual, the PDK option is good as well and even easier to find.
Well , all those issues with Electronics etc. and other nic naks, are a no go for me anyway period ! As fahr as im concernd , since the early 2000nds the car industry is stripping us in many ways down ! So my best recipie for having solid fun with a good resale value on top , is my 88“ BMW E34 M5 3,6l ( S 38 B36 Killer Engine) ! Also got an E36 Alpina B3 3,0l with a M50 cast iron block , witch is a German Build Hemi Engine !! Its a square bore 86x86 ,, fantastic!! 35mpg ! And fast car! But if i wanna enjoy a car wtih dignity and style, i go in my 2000 Porsche 996 3,4l C2 Tipi ! Looking foreward to sell one of the Beemers , and the 996 , to get a 996 4S . I recommend to invest in Porsche ! The Porsche is super relaiable , just do your Oil once a year , or 10k miles ! But dont forget , if you drive less thần 10 k a year , do the oil once a year anyway !!! Very important!! Cause the engine oils are subject to viscosity loss, After exposed to Engine useage ! Its a fact That helps to prevent at least 75% of engine failure ! ( of course there can be other issues , depending ơn year and make of a cả Brand ) PS : thats just only my own opinion , Paired with experience of over 30 years in mecanics! Thanx to Nathan for that awesome chanel - very authentic content ❤
The coolant pipe issues were fixed on the 957. the coolant pipes were only an issue with the 955's. The turbo's were really trouble free. I have an 08 cayenne i bought with 80 K and it now has over 160K and only issue was a couple coils, and the driveshaft support bearing. I have less than $1,200.00 in repairs in 80K miles. it has been a great truck.
I have a Cayenne S Transsyberian with 122K on it and I've done a major engine out reseal because I love it so much. Worth every penny. Changed the coils myself when I got it a couple years ago and it's awesome in every way.
Great video Nathan! Pls continue. I have 997.1 carrera manual 2005 milage 66.000 km and so far no problem of bore scoring. Is it possible? Or is it incorrect engine checking or I am lucky? When after which milage should I decide to do engine rebuilt? Best Arek
How are the e92 M3's reliability wise? I'm in the market for a nice coupe, I've always loved them, especially with the V8 but don't want to deal with the headaches if they're not reliable. I've had 5 series before not an M car but it was headaches. Please let me know your thoughts @ Nathan
Ive never seen a regular Cayman attract much attention unless you live in a small town where Porsche's are next to non existent. As for 911's, a regular 996 or 997 Carrera don't really raise eye brows either. The 992 generation however have way more road presence even in regular trim. The GT series cars are what really draw attention.
You're right that the 911 back seat is fairly worthless as a seat, but I set mine up for my dogs and am really glad I have it. I don't think I could possibly make the Cayman work for the dogs. I have a 997 which has the transponder in the key, which has led me to believe that without the key, the car would be almost impossible to steal. Would you concur, or is there a way to start and drive this car without the key? Thanks for your input, really enjoy this channel!
Did you know that from the rear edge of the door forward a Cayman or Boxster has the exact same structure as a 911? Really, all a Cayman is is a 911 with the engine turned around 180 degrees and no back seats. And a price tag $25,000 lower...
@@Flies2FLL The looks are my issue the mid engine layout is better than rear engine but none of them looks as good as a 911. If you don't care about looks than obviously they are a hell of a lot cheaper but i tried buying a Ugly car Lexus RCF and you will never love something you cant bear to look at
Its true Porsche has one of the best classic departments in the world- one of the reason I sold some other classics to finance a 997- ownership experience makes an enjoyable car.
I agree with your comment. I drive my Cayman 987.1 probably three times every 2 weeks or so and never have issues and it always starts right up, no issues. Good content as usual.
Hi Nathan...I have plans to buy a 911 in 6 months but the possibility of bore scoring is making me worried...I'm thinking of a 996 but I don't know if it's a 3.4 or 3.6 .... Please, in your experience do the 3.6 engines have a lot of probability of bore scoring like the 997 engines or not?? tks
bore score on the 996 is rare same for IMS failures. It is an over blown issue that affected a small percentage of cars. Maintenance history and consistent oil change history is what you should look for. Jake Raby's channel on here is the ultimate M96 source.
You can't buy a car that old and not expect to put your hard in your pocket one thing I would say is don't go near a car that's been 're lined with iron steel liners they will fail Evan if top hat at head
an M96/ M97 can't compare to a N54/ N55 in reliability, longevity, or power potential. Let's not even mention the B58 because there is no comparison. To be frank, the M96/ M97 engines are junk. Are you telling me after you sleeve and rebuild the engine, find a fix for the IMS bearing. and replace the coolant pipes the M96 and M97 engines will be up to the task? If you ask me, I don't see how people support a company with a track record like theirs. The N54 and N55 can be sorted through in the backyards of most enthusiast and have a 700 - 800hp capable engine. How can you compare?
996 and a 3-series here. The BMW costs me at least twice as much to keep it going. Besides the Porsche, best car I ever had (mechanically) was a Mazda 6. Not spectacular, but while we had it, it seemed indestructible.
I am biased because I bought a '04 Cayenne a little while back in great condition, with only 50k miles on the motor because it was replaced by the former owner when scoring became an issue (they also fixed a bunch of other common issues in their almost 20 years of ownership). Now I'm working on setting it up as an overland vehicle and it is far cheaper than an equivalently capable jeep. Even without lockers the Porsche traction management system brakes any tire without traction keeping you moving forward (basically equivalent to having limit slip differentials front and rear, but far better on road performance). And with only a minor change trimming the wheel well you can fit 32" tires comfortably which I think is about the size they ran in the Transiberian rally ($100 eurowise kit to replace the wheel well liner you cut out). To me, a great vehicle to set up for over-landing at a very reasonable price. And once set up with these really basic mods, they look and preform great. I've also seen modified examples selling for decent money when you consider how cheaply you can pick up a good stock example. Gotta be careful and find one with an owner who took care of it. But I think folks underestimating the Cayenne by focusing on its stock value as a mall crawler rather than its utility value as an off-road vehicle. Plus its just cool off-roading in a v8 powered Porsche with 7,500 lbs towing capacity, a state of the art (for the time) triptronic transmission, heated leather seats, premium sound as well as various touches of quality ranging from wood accents and the weight of the sun roof shade, to better noise isolation in the cab and quick/powerful window motors.
I have an '85 3.2 Carrera that I've owned since 1996. I love it as much as, if not more than, the day I got it. I've concurrently owned an e36 coupe, an e34 5spd, an e46 coupe, and an e46 xi wagon. My personal rule was never, ever, with no exceptions, buy a BMW with a V8.
The xi wagon was a fantastic car. In my experience, BMW has AWD figured out better than pretty much anyone. I had a Subaru Forester (yes, I know) as a company car, and Subaru's AWD was nowhere near as good as BMW's X Drive.
That said, the BMW's were far more fragile and needy. Idle Control Valves, coil packs, control arm bushings, thrown belts, the list of petty, bullshit annoyances goes on. Oh, and if you can't abide check engines lights that appear and disappear randomly, and for no clear reason, BMWs are not for you.
Until the Panamera came along, I always used to say that BMWs were meant for guys who had kids, or whose wives wouldn't let them have a Porsche.
Whats the best Porsche to buy for a tall individual over 6 ft that isnt the suv?
Macan or cayenne
Thanks Nathan - enjoy all your Porsche videos, all good info. In my own experience, I've owned a 2005 Boxster and a 2011 Cayman, both base models, both manual. Being a non-mechanic, I bought both as Porsche dealer CPO cars, had them dealer serviced, and sold them when the CPO warranties expired. Not sure that formula would work well in today's economy, given current pricing. Both were immensely enjoyable and satisfying to drive.
$3k for rebuild on a cayman????
I have owned an M series BMW car, and currently have 4 BMW motorbikes. The older models are more serviceable. My Porsche Cayman 981 is in a totally different league and is a far more enjoyable drive and also far easier to service myself.
I went to a Porsche track day with my car, there was a guy there with a Turbo S, he also did track day charity events. He said guys show up at the charity events with Ferraris, R8s and Lamborghinis and half of them go home on flatbeds with check engine lights or limp mode. Not one Porsche has broken down.
😅😅😅
Hey, thank you, Nathan. Appreciate your honesty on BMW and Porsche. I only have a 1 series convertible, but I love it. Not the fastest, but it's still quick. Not an M car, but it's my baby.
Just found your channel recently Nathan, really like the content and format. More information on reducing the expense on a 997 rebuild (did you say $3K?) would be great!
Totally agree.
BMW is going through some sort of reliability crisis. They are great cars, but should be leased, not purchased. Porsche's flat 6 cars are nearly as reliable as Toyota's.
What about ims issues? How about bore scoring? Rebuild costs? Sorry but compared to a BMW, it's not even worth it
@@R26Roman You post that because you know not what you are talking about. The modern 9A1 flat 6 engine used in Porsche sports cars today has none of the problems you mentioned. You are referring to the M96 engine, which....Went out of production in 2008.
Hello-?
@@Flies2FLL there is still reports check in with Porsche of America friend.... regardless there are cheaper platforms if you want the same driving experience for a lot less
@@R26Roman Uh, no there are not. The 9A1 has been nearly flawless, you look it up. As to "cheaper platforms", you get what you pay for. Look for a decent 10 year old 981 and you cannot go wrong. And if something does go wrong that you cannot fix yourself, you won't have any trouble finding a shop to work on your Porsche, unlike a BMW.
Many shops simply will not work on a BMW built after about 2005. They know that if they repair one, the owner will be back screaming at them the next week when something else goes wrong....
@@Flies2FLL That's funny because I think it's actually the other way around, because shops know no one wants to pay that bill. BMW engines for full rebuild go for 10K or less. Porsche rebuild easily 15K to 20k. The way I see it I rather rebuild an M3 then rebuild a Cayman s. We're not talking about rebuilding a turbo or a GT3 engine. Don't get me wrong I love Porsches it's just the cost it's too high.
I live in Australia and owned both a f80 and a 987.2 Spyder. The Porsche was way more expensive to keep, every year I spent in between 3-5k if nothing major happens. Both cars are capable in different ways just it’s very hard to keep up with the maintenance bills of a Porsche. It’s way cheaper to fix a BMW here in Australia, lots of after market or spare parts available. Also normally there’s a long waiting period to either service and fix a Porsche
Where did you go for maintenance, was it an official Porsche Centre or an independent specialist?
U lucked out to an almost bullet proof Bimmer thats why. S55 👑
Do the best of both worlds. E90 N52 for Daily and Porsche the other times.
After 4 BMWs I’m headed to a 2024 911T base model. I was super lucky to get an allocation that comes in at the end of December. After following your channel for sometime now I’m curious if you would give me you thoughts on the outgoing 992 motors for the long term? About 10 yrs? Thank you.
Panameras are cheap except for the Turbo and Turbo S. They've surprisingly held their value
Seems like a both sides claim 🤔 did they hold their value or are the cheap? What about the hybrid models? Or the diesel?
Are you talking about flipping them?
If I didn't love my M5 so much, there is no way I'd still own it. I knew it was a money pit going into ownership though, I didn't expect anything different, helps a lot when you can do the work yourself
The V10? With those seats that hug you to remind you that what a suckered you are 🤣
I rode in one of those once. Have fun checking and adding oil on that thing.
@@randominternetuser2888 I don't understand, was that supposed to be an insult or?
@@randominternetuser2888 You don’t own one, never owned one, and have probably owned NONE of the cars discussed..
Go watch Scotty Kilmer
This is the only video where out of country $3k fix for bore score is mentioned, does anybody have any info on this fix? Everywhere the fix seems to cost $20k-30k.
Videos coming soon
@@NathansPorscheWorkshop I have been waiting for your video since your last video commented about options other than the "main player"
I now own a Cayman, but my previous 2 cars were BMW E46 328 and E36 328 vert. Both very reliable fantastic cars. Those motors were bulletproof and not overly computerised. But I love my Cayman. Completely different car and driving experience.
whoa did i hear that right, you mentioned can do rebuild in the cayman engine (bore scoring damage) for about 3k? would love to hear more about this. touch wood i'll never need to for my 997.1.. but the fear is there lol.
I think Nathan meant only re-sleeving a scored wall for 3k and when shipped out of country. Not complete remove, rebuild, replace. I'm in Canada, has anyone heard of shops to the north who can do this service? It's at 10:40 in the video.
To get a reliable BMW yes you need to get an M car or 5 series and up. Their 2.0 turbo is a literally a throw away engine, in most instances a dealer will not attempt to fix the 2.0 turbo, they remove it, replace it, sometimes they ship the failed engine back to Germany, but some go directly to scrap. I'm nearing retirement and am looking into a car like this, and a Porsche is IMO clearly the better choice. If I weren't going to buy a Porsche, and wanted a sports car, i'd go with a Mustang or a Corvette. They may be domestic, but I know several that have traded a german convertible in for a Mustang and couldn't be happier, top comment is "at least I get to drive the Mustang"
I agree with you BMW is not as reliable as Porsche. And way more expensive and BMW doesn't keep its resale value. Stick with Porsche.
I bought a 2011 F10 N52 528 clean title for $1,600 it needed a new engine I got off LKQ $800 delivered to my house. Long story short I was in it $3,800 and sold it for $8,500 with 150k miles…. Waiting for the funds for my $4,000 E60 M5 it needs another S85 if you want to help a brotha out lol 😂
Thanks for the video great content. Looks like the two finalists for me is a C8 Corvette or Porsche. More research and I'll narrow it down to one.
I have both brands and prefer them for different reasons. for purely driving, I prefer my Boxster. for tooling around ton and doing "normal stuff" I gravitate towards my bmw.
Same here…I have 987.1 Boxster S & F06 640i M-Sport GC. Both cars are amazing for different reasons but the 640i is my daily.
I ordered my first and only Porsche Boxster S in July of 2013, it arrived October of 2013 as a 2014 model. It surpassed all my previous BMWs, 524, 528, 540, Z3. The Z3 was the most reliable of the bunch and a real keeper. I do most of my service except for changing the plugs which are a real PIA to reach. So far with 88k miles, there have been no mechanical problems with the Porsche, and it always gets over 32mpg on the highway. Truly remarkable .
Very happy with my 12 year old RWD N52-powered BMW with a 6 speed manual. Last evolution of the normally aspirated BMW Inline 6. No problems so far...
I think you can be really happy with your BMW as long as you NEVER drive a Porsche. I've owned an E46 (328i), E92 (335i), and an F87 M2C. None handled like my '89 944S2. Before I bought the M2C I test drove a 718 GTS 2.5 - AMAZING! I bought the 8 month old M2C because it was $18k cheaper than the 2 year old Porsche. By the time I upgraded the suspension, wheels & tires, brake lines/pads, camber plates, and shift bushing (a must!), and exhaust,I could have bought the 718 and done nothing...maybe an exhaust.
I know this is kind of nitpicky, but I think your blue cayman has the active suspension set up, which I believe is called PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) rather than PSM (Porsche Stability Management). PSM is standard on those 987.1 cars, but the PASM is a hard to find option on a used one. The PASM gives you that option of a softer ride setting that you spoke about in an early video of this car.
I appreciate your opinion Nathan. You have earned credibility on such matters. For me, it's BMW and I drive an OG M2. It uses the final iteration of the N55 but has trick parts brought over from the S55. I have had it for nearly 5 years and it's been rock solid. As an older guy I can't pull off a Porsche 911. People would laugh at me. So I chill and cruise the M2 around Denver and in the mountains and it works for me.
I have a 911. Most of the guys that I drive with that have them are older. I’ve never seen anyone laughing at us. Go get one. They are awesome!!
@@pcsullog no clue why. What’s their dream for when they get older? Drive a Buick? Fuck that. Live your life.
Who laughs at anyone that can afford a 911? I’m chilling in my 987.2 Boxster and currently looking to add a 991.1 to my garage
I'd say buy BMW M four seaters for daily use and need Porsche sport cars for weekends and fun, I wouldn't compare M cars to Porsche sports cars they are just different.
I thought this might happen once he started getting into the Porsches. Can't blame him, there is so much bmw content out there. Also, Porsche seems to be the logical step for someone that has already climbed the bmw mountain. New challenge.
lol I’m on the opposite mountain. Had 911s for 11 years and now I want a new s58 M4 and tune it to 600 wheel hp.
What are the most durable German SUVs ? I can deal with maintenance and the odd issue but want to avoid these catastrophic repairs when the vehicle gets older like motor-out repairs or having to replace the entire valve cover with an expensive new one instead of just the gasket. Mercedes? Porsche?
Bmw is a great budget sport vehicle. Junkyards full of good used parts. Probably 100:1 bmw to porsche in junk yards.
When working on porsche I always think it's 20 years ago how it's bolted together.
Regardless Porsche is sexy but bmw is a budget friendly car if you do a little work yourself and pick well which model you work on.
I bought 3 running 540i 6 speeds 1 m sport 03) for less than 5k and 300hp is plenty unless you're a size queen kind of driver who must get pumped hard by maximum power every second which is a young man's reckless game anyway.
But whenever u see bmw benz audi porsche I'd say learn a thing or two unless youre Bezos or it's gonna be a 25000 oil change like the Bugatti and right to the comments section.
If I can't get some used bits for it easy it's not top of my list. Some microplastics from porsche are surely a mortgage payment.
Nice video Nathan understand the frustration waiting for parts still can't wait for you to get back on the BMW stuff been waiting while have a good one
You deal with these cars and you've a good understanding about them. Let them know what it is...that's why I subscribe.
I've owned a Z4M Coupe and a Cayman 987.1 and I agree with everything you are saying. The Z4M is a great car, but the Porsche is just better it in every category.
Please tell me You Own a Pair of Driving Gloves, otherwise You are not a real Porsche Driver! Actually like this Stereotype of the Porsche Owner and looks cool! I live in Scottsdale AZ and see a lot of Porsche Drivers, especially Younger ones rocking Gloves, lol! 😊
U H H H !!... Im SO PSSD..
NOT ! Truth is the truth.. Porsche very much known as a better rig. Yes, I really enjoy my BMW, so i follow this channel too.. but BMW? it was my Wall-poster dream-car.. I feel like james bond when i walk out to it, or drive it. Ill never care if it Leaks(many times lol), breaks down(hasnt) but i dont care.
It IS and Was, a really fun' child's pipe-dream that came to life. Just alot of fun. And to tinker with it never made me angry, I felt the same as when i helped my kids do homework somehow.
Just enjoyed the idea of a race-car that needs my attn and also an enjoyment since im a tech, but i get to drive it on the streets daily. Any car a person has should be that way. Porsche is the same.. very cool, just whos dream" it is that counts.
great vid.
Seems like the very simple front brake cooling plastic on the Porsche's is very effective. It makes the cars very reliable on the track, and after when you want to drive home.
its easy to code bmw components with free software that's out there. there is lots of support for the BMW.. Sorry but you are absolutely wrong about the software, its not hard and all available online and free. a few hours on any BMW forum. I agree about the BMW being an issue. My son has an 08 335I twin turbo. always has an issue. he is always replacing injectors, ecu coding, etc.. it never runs well for long. WAY faster than my 07 cayman S but he cant complete a track day without spending half the day working on it.
Unless you get a E46/E60/E70 for free there is no way to sort the car and make money on the resale. There are a dozen E46's here in Kansas City that have blown head gaskets and the dumbasses still think the car is worth 3k. The car is worth zero with a blown head gasket.
Bmw are great track cars over Porsches because of cost. Engines are cheaper, rebuilds are cheaper, parts are cheaper. If you want great resell value cars are not it.
Most cars look the same. Not the Porsche. Even the Panamera sedan is unique in it's look. But the 911 and Boxster/Cayman are even more special. I don't want a car that looks like all the rest.
Cars that are usually stolen are the cars that are big sellers. Cars are usually stolen for parts.
I take your talking old cars here like 10-15 years plus
I have zero problems with my 5 year old bmw m2
When you say bore scored motors can be resolved for 3k, can you break that down a bit?
That comment REALLY caught my attention as well. Just found your channel recently Nathan, really like the content and format. More information on reducing the expense on a 997 rebuild would be great!
The 3K bit is maybe only for resleeving the cylinder liners. Add in 10K or so for parts and labor at minimum!
Does anyone know more about who is re sleeving for $3k?
4 to 5k for nickasil, my guess is 3k is for iron. I believe EBS out of Nevada does iron which I believe is the cheapest option. You'll still have to buy a gasket kit and someone will need to assemble. The expenses come in with "while you're there". Some money can be saved with aftermarket parts but you'll need to have some good knowledge on which parts you can risk.
Mate. Buy a e36 and do a video.
I love your no B.S. info on the cars.
Follow your heart, it's all good. Whenever you are ready to come back we will be waiting for you.
I like Porsh 😅 I don’t know why people get all worked up over a word. 😂
I agree with what you’re saying. I have a couple e46’s. Don’t think I would ever purchase a newer BMW. Would prefer a Porsche but can’t afford one. Really enjoy your Porsche channel.
Great vid. I have BMW’s (e39, e46, n52 x5) and wrenching isn’t terrible on them. How would you compare wrenching in a cayman, Boxster, or 911 vs a BMW? I learned on BMW’s and find them to have enough space and basic enough to work on myself. Which scanners can code as I never tried ISTA for reasons you stated.
The meme is true “when BMW owners has more money they buy Porsche”
Loving my e46 2000 323i manual, hooker red.
I thought Porsche make one of the most reliable engines?
Nathan, your thoughts on 2015 535i xdrive?
Funny… sold my pristine e46 M3 last year, and after driving a few e90 M3s, I drove an older Boxster S… guess which car is on my driveway now. 👍😂… mid engine is where’s at. 100% agree with you.
I also had a pristine jet black on cinnamon E46 M3, as well as an E36, and E92. I actually enjoyed the E36 the most out of the bunch. I was looking for a Cayman but when I drove the Boxster I was floored by how good it was. I am a very happy camper with a 987.2 Boxster will it will likely stay in my possession for a long time to come.
"They're both overrated. The end." 😎
I think 3 sec in, I knew which one you’d like most 😂 I love Porsche, daily a ‘24 M4 comp Xdrive Cabrio heavily modded, huge fan of the Turbo S as well 🥹❤️
in europe the last bmw that has long life is the 525tds E 39 m51 engine manual gearbox,,,,,, also the e34 with the same motor manual. a 2 valve oil burner my E39 returns 6.3 liter per 100 klm had some 1970,s porsche 911t / 911S /928S all manuals .good cars but not daily drivers ...my last E34 tds had 670,000 klm useing only mobil 1 oil. when i dumped it.
I have a Porsche cayman s. Love it ..also a 430mcoupe I drive bmw .. also a 500cl Merc now there all
Good. Porsche my fave second Mercedes .. imo are better than bmw ..bmw are good cars. But I prefer Mercedes now my bmw is 2021 model my Porsche a2009 ( only 50,000 miles) my Merc 2014 40,000 miles my bmw 9,000 miles .l love all the cars my wife hates the Porsche .. but loved the bmw …it’s about choice. I had a Audi ttrs which was a good car as well ..sold that a few years ago ..,but Porsche my fav for looks and the drive
Great content, I'm currently shopping around for a boxster or Cayman and see so many here in LA with usually around 100k on the odo. You mentioned that higher mileage examples are a good sign that the car has had most issues resolved. Hard to find a 2009 and up which I prefer because the cylinders are coated in instead of steel. Any suggestions? Reliability is my main concern
i bought my 07 cayman s with 120K.. its been great, and has over 160K. no issues. i also have a 928 s4 with over 200K. wife drives a cayenne S with 160K.. all the BMW's ive had have lots of issues.
@@stevenbarts330 ...yeah currently have a 128i which runs perfect but really want to try a Porsche. Had SLK' s and Audi TT turbo B4 and miss the 2 seat open top fun. Waiting for the right one to pull the trigger.
Go for a 2009 base Cayman manual. If you can find an S great but they are very rare with the manual. the 987.2 base has still good power, the engines are bulletproof, and manuals are easier to come by. If you don't want manual, the PDK option is good as well and even easier to find.
@@stevenbarts330what do you do to maintain your cayman? Did you do preventative maintenance on the engine? How often do you do oil and filter changes
Bring
Money
With ya!
Well , all those issues with Electronics etc. and other nic naks, are a no go for me anyway period !
As fahr as im concernd , since the early 2000nds the car industry is stripping us in many ways down !
So my best recipie for having solid fun with a good resale value on top , is my
88“ BMW E34 M5 3,6l ( S 38 B36 Killer Engine) !
Also got an E36 Alpina B3 3,0l with a M50 cast iron block , witch is a German Build Hemi Engine !!
Its a square bore 86x86 ,, fantastic!!
35mpg ! And fast car!
But if i wanna enjoy a car wtih dignity and style, i go in my 2000 Porsche 996 3,4l C2 Tipi !
Looking foreward to sell one of the Beemers , and the 996 , to get a 996 4S .
I recommend to invest in Porsche !
The Porsche is super relaiable , just do your Oil once a year , or 10k miles !
But dont forget , if you drive less thần 10 k a year , do the oil once a year anyway !!!
Very important!!
Cause the engine oils are subject to viscosity loss, After exposed to Engine useage !
Its a fact That helps to prevent at least 75% of engine failure !
( of course there can be other issues , depending ơn year and make of a cả Brand )
PS : thats just only my own opinion , Paired with experience of over 30 years in mecanics!
Thanx to Nathan for that awesome chanel - very authentic content ❤
Thanks Nathan! Great info.
The coolant pipe issues were fixed on the 957. the coolant pipes were only an issue with the 955's. The turbo's were really trouble free. I have an 08 cayenne i bought with 80 K and it now has over 160K and only issue was a couple coils, and the driveshaft support bearing. I have less than $1,200.00 in repairs in 80K miles. it has been a great truck.
I have a Cayenne S Transsyberian with 122K on it and I've done a major engine out reseal because I love it so much. Worth every penny. Changed the coils myself when I got it a couple years ago and it's awesome in every way.
Solid post, here.
Great video Nathan! Pls continue. I have 997.1 carrera manual 2005 milage 66.000 km and so far no problem of bore scoring. Is it possible? Or is it incorrect engine checking or I am lucky? When after which milage should I decide to do engine rebuilt? Best Arek
Is suit in the tail pipes and slight wet drops a sign of bore scoring? I have a 2014 991 C4S with 38K miles CPO.
thanks G.
How are the e92 M3's reliability wise? I'm in the market for a nice coupe, I've always loved them, especially with the V8 but don't want to deal with the headaches if they're not reliable. I've had 5 series before not an M car but it was headaches. Please let me know your thoughts @ Nathan
Great video. I’ve owned 5 Bmw and currently own 1 M car. I’ve always looked as Porsche as the next step up over an M car.
Ive never seen a regular Cayman attract much attention unless you live in a small town where Porsche's are next to non existent. As for 911's, a regular 996 or 997 Carrera don't really raise eye brows either. The 992 generation however have way more road presence even in regular trim. The GT series cars are what really draw attention.
I've had both brands. Bmw's haven't been really dependable cars! A Porsche only needs a little bit of love to make it last for ever!
You're right that the 911 back seat is fairly worthless as a seat, but I set mine up for my dogs and am really glad I have it. I don't think I could possibly make the Cayman work for the dogs.
I have a 997 which has the transponder in the key, which has led me to believe that without the key, the car would be almost impossible to steal. Would you concur, or is there a way to start and drive this car without the key? Thanks for your input, really enjoy this channel!
Thieves have a way of cloning your key using a laptop and a transmitter. You should keep that key in a metal box in your house to prevent this.
Just get a steering wheel lock
@@SwitchedDreams When they raid "chop shops" they usually find a pile of broken steering wheel locks in a corner.
what year was it where bore score is not a problem
09 and newer
I agree with what your saying although i dont like cayman boxster or 996 so that leaves the expensive 911's
Did you know that from the rear edge of the door forward a Cayman or Boxster has the exact same structure as a 911? Really, all a Cayman is is a 911 with the engine turned around 180 degrees and no back seats. And a price tag $25,000 lower...
@@Flies2FLL The looks are my issue the mid engine layout is better than rear engine but none of them looks as good as a 911. If you don't care about looks than obviously they are a hell of a lot cheaper but i tried buying a Ugly car Lexus RCF and you will never love something you cant bear to look at
@@kevinlogan2306 Looks are indeed subjective. I have a '14 981CS and I think it looks better than the 911.
Its true Porsche has one of the best classic departments in the world- one of the reason I sold some other classics to finance a 997- ownership experience makes an enjoyable car.
“Why you steal Porsche 😠” I hope you got it😂😭
F30s are made so cheaply in some areas it's jaw dropping.
Mark is there a number I could reach you at?
FIRST!!!
No way !!
So useful, cheers nate
Great video!
Pretty spot on
Bmw = German muscle car
Porsche = German Ferrari
BMW = German Chevy otherwise correct
Biased
B58…
I agree with your comment. I drive my Cayman 987.1 probably three times every 2 weeks or so and never have issues and it always starts right up, no issues. Good content as usual.
Hi Nathan...I have plans to buy a 911 in 6 months but the possibility of bore scoring is making me worried...I'm thinking of a 996 but I don't know if it's a 3.4 or 3.6 .... Please, in your experience do the 3.6 engines have a lot of probability of bore scoring like the 997 engines or not?? tks
bore score on the 996 is rare same for IMS failures. It is an over blown issue that affected a small percentage of cars. Maintenance history and consistent oil change history is what you should look for. Jake Raby's channel on here is the ultimate M96 source.
I agree!!
Raby Rules !!!
Awesome dude with killer Knowledge!!
You can't buy a car that old and not expect to put your hard in your pocket one thing I would say is don't go near a car that's been 're lined with iron steel liners they will fail Evan if top hat at head
an M96/ M97 can't compare to a N54/ N55 in reliability, longevity, or power potential. Let's not even mention the B58 because there is no comparison. To be frank, the M96/ M97 engines are junk. Are you telling me after you sleeve and rebuild the engine, find a fix for the IMS bearing. and replace the coolant pipes the M96 and M97 engines will be up to the task? If you ask me, I don't see how people support a company with a track record like theirs.
The N54 and N55 can be sorted through in the backyards of most enthusiast and have a 700 - 800hp capable engine. How can you compare?
Bmw G80 M3 is where its at, the only porsche I'd take over that are the gt2/gt3 variants.
Guy sure loves to hear himself talk.
" A family of midgets........." HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Porsches are overpriced
Because they are worth it
No, they are right-priced. Could argue about recent policies, but before that they were well worth it.
Some people they are so into Bmw that it doesn't matter how bad the car is or how unreliable the car is they still want it lol. Just bmw thing.