Loving my Vaporfly 3 so far Tim. Best fit and lockdown out of any versions so far, great upper for wet and hot running. Lighter, more bounce and snap than v1 I think. Amazing outsole in the wet. Just works so well for me who forefoot strike. Nike nailed this one that I got another pair for £160! I want the Elite too having loved the Endorphin Pro 3 but doesn't seem to be going for sales and I can't justify paying full price for the Elites when I can get Vaporfly 2 or 3 for well under £150 now!
Yeah the Vaporfly 3 has worked well - including the session I did the other day on my birthday and my latest video. Initially I found the upper was a bit wide for me but after pulling in the laces a lot, it fits me well now. I did another pair of the VF2 in the current sale so now have 2 of them unused in a box. I always thought I liked the VF1 most but the VF3 may take that crown. Never liked the VF2 as much but way better than most shoes I have so get a lot of use out of them in training. Endorphin Elite or Pro 3 have also used a fair bit of late - think my favourites after the Vaporflys. Elite has been useful of late as puts very little pressure on my Achilles at the back or tendons on either side of my left foot which have been troubling me a few months now. Glad I got to try the Elite but it does seem a bit overpriced as you say.
Yeah it does seem to be going that way. That said in hindsight I may give this another go on a longer flatter loop to better model typical road race conditions. What I thought was going to be a fairly flat lane turned out to have an average gradient of 2.5% ! At least it was essentially traffic free as was an effective dead end for cars.
Imo most of the so-called supershoes provide very similar performance in reality and agree totally with u that it's more about how a particular shoe feels wen running....and in that respect, they do vary A LOT.....
Yeah in my first shoeoff I compared the Vaporfly 1 with a load of "tempo" types shoes like the Rincon 1, Zoom Fly 3, Adios 6 & even Peg Turbos and the Vaporfly was a clear "winner" whichever way you looked at it. Just felt faster as soon as started running and I was actually having to hold back to try and get similar times to the others to better compare HR and power. These days, as you say, differences very marginal if any although would have been nice to try the Evo 1 !
Thanks for the shoutout:) Yes, those Pro Evos are excellent and my favorite but no game-changer in any regard other than weight. And interesting how different perceptions are here. I used the VF3 this morning on a moderate run and was thinking how I much prefer the Elite because the VF3 is just too soft and sinking feeling on footstrike, and it doesn't roll my forward as much.
Ah that's "funny" as that is essentially what I was saying in reverse. I do think however that the VF3 does not feel that great unless you are going for it whereas the VF1 especially I thought was nicer to run any speed in. Reminded me a bit of Fuelcell in the RC Elite 2 or even Rebel 2. If I "tried" in that soft foam it seemed to sort of firm up and then was fine. Or maybe it is just when you try you just need to get on with it and concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other. When going slower there is so much more "time" to think about anything and everything.
Yeah maybe the VF3 doesn' t feel so good going easy because they' re just so stiff, and you need to be putting some real pressure in it to even bend the Carbon plate. Do you even need good shoes now that you have a Soar vest?:)@@TimGrose
I’m convicted the main differentiator of the Vaporrfly is the plate stiffness. Compared to the other carbon plates other brands use the Nike plate is considerably more flexible. Definitely not a wet noodle but that flex works with the ZoomX to provide the “ZoomX” feel, that is often missing in a pure ZoomX shoe whereas it just feels soft. I’ve been spending alot of time in the VF3 lately, at a range of paces and have really noticed this flex in the shoe, with some ground feel too, even in a fresh out of the box model. The softer foam in the VF3, compared to the VF1/2 makes this sensation even more present. Therefore, it looses a bit on the shorter harder efforts but is more civil for the medium to long efforts (like a half/full). That actually leaves room for where the Streakfly 2 seems to be portioning as well. Interesting changes afoot and Nike I suspect. Great to see your spreadsheet data as always backing up your impressions!
I filmed another Shoeoff tonight but on flat ground for longer and still thought the VF3 felt a little easier but this time was careful to run more or less exactly the same. For me the more arch support seems a factor I only just noticed yesterday. Lot of runners complain about that but clearly it helps me. Interesting about the plate. These carbon racers although we describe them as soft are more like the norm. I think of really soft as something over the top like Fuelcell or Invincible. Do you think the VF3 feels softer than before just because there is 2mm more foam this time. I did feel the plate today a bit in both shoes. Both are nice so almost looking for very small differences to pick a winner even when the spreadsheet is a bit inconclusive. Pity running power meters aren’t really that useful for these sort of comparisons too.
@@TimGrose I think the VF3 feels softer because the foam IS softer. The "firmness" people describe has more to do with the sculpting of the midsole sidewalls, crash zones and flex areas. The shoe also flares out on the bottom of the midsole near the outsole, instead of rounding inward like the VF1/2, which makes the VF3 feel more "firmer" as there is much less side-to-side roll. It's also odd, I too just noticed the arch on my recent few runs in the VF3. I've NEVER noticed it before on a VF or AF (or any Nike shoe). It doesn't bother me and I have strong/natural arches, but i do notice it now... odd that.
I think you're right about the "bounce", my Elites don't feel like trampolines which was my takeaway from trying Vaporflys, which were unfortunately uncomfortable for me. I think the Elite gets a bit of its speed from having such a steep roll-off at the toe?
I tend to toe off in my all shoes and normally I see the most wear under my toes but I can't say the Elites offer anything "special" there for me. All very marginal though and glad I got the Elite as think of all my "racing" shoes it would now be the one I would reach for first if I didn't take out a Vaporfly. That said I probably still need to further test it on some longer "up tempo" runs. I do recall after a session in them that a few miles obviously slow warm down wasn't the "best" but equally a shoe not designed for easy runs as it were.
such comprehensive stuff!!! great details... were you out last night wearing.a high viz jacket, running down the straight road towards the sciley isles roundabout ? just picked a pair of endorphin pro 3, very different from my Altra trail shoe but loving them...!
Hello James - thanks. Not guilty there - was running in Headley at dusk last night in my Soar "paid for" vest. Can''t be many runners as tall as me near us though! I did wear my Pro 3 the other day for comparison and did think was certainly similar to the Elite. Raced in the Pro 3 once - the Wedding Day 7K and did fine. Me less so LOL. Yeah imagine rather different from an Altra. Zero drop shoes just "scare" me. I often find say 5mm a bit "much".
Very interesting comparison Tim, thanks. I recently was doing a similar comparison (for an upcoming Half in few weeks) between VF3 , Asics MetaSpeed Sky+ and AP3 and was puzzled to see, on similar sessions (same speeds , same segments), metrics like GCT, VerticalOscillation, Cadence , Strlen, HR were very very close .. I coudn't literaly spot a winner to be honest (I was expecting to see way more deviation from the mean depening on the shoe). I'm thinking probably because either I'm a forefoot/midfoot striker OR (as some professionals who analyzed my gait said) my running gait is fairly efficient and therefore differences are less obvious? I feel this is what you're saying at around 7:34 (meaning difficult to say which shoe is best) but during your tests did you ever happen to see a shoe really standing out w.r.t these metrics? My conclusion was that - since usual metrics didn't spot a winner - I would rather choose depending on confort and VF3 to me is likely the best (I feel like ZoomX is forgiving and the day after hard sessions my legs aren't barking like with other foam compounds).
My first shoeoff was almost 4 years ago and then the Vaporfly 1 was noticeably better than everything else both in the metrics (HR lower and was hard not to just run faster than I wanted to for best comparisons) but the comparisons then were with flats and lightweight trainers. Indeed in the Shoeoff I did for my latest video on the Soar vest with again Endorphin Elite vs Vaporfly 3 the metrics were even closer but “on feel” I still am leaning to the Vaporfly 3. I feel I can best detect those subtle differences if wear shoes one after another. Very individual though and good to get these discussions going. In a way good now that little difference between what is on offer. Maybe the Evo 1 will take things forward a step more but from what have heard only on weight not really the ride which may or may not suit everybody.
@@TimGrose yeah most people tend to agree. The only super shoe I have ever tried is the vf3 and is my current shoe for race day. So no need to change ? I focus on mile-5k
Great video Tim. I concur with your comments, the VP line have consistently felt like they want to push you on faster. I have a theory about this, based on some of our slo-mo video. I can't say too much for now, but I suspect the VP has a speed variation, because the plate is unique compared to all others. It seems to have stiff sections and flexible sections. This could radically change how the plate functions as speed changes, based on ground contact time. i.e. with low GC, i.e. running fast in most people, the bend causes the plate to act like a spring lever. But this doesn't increase vertical movement, it *may* contribute to the movement of the foot up and back towards the buttock. This would act to shorten the lever and allow the drive of the knee through faster. This might be why many people report the VP feeling *light* despite similar weight to other shoes.
Ah very interesting. Are you going to do your own video on this? Certainly something about the Vaporflys that other brands don’t seem to be able to really improve on well maybe save for the elusive Evo 1. On weight they are the lightest of the ones I use albeit not my that much.
Maybe there is an element of conscious bias here in that performance wise hard was really hard to say one or the other was "better" but on feel it "felt" like it was a little "easier" in the Vaporfly 3 and also I felt they fit my foot shape slightly better especially with more arch support. Probably need to try for longer reps on "easier" flatter roads to more mirror how it would be in an actual road race.
Vaporfly 1's are a piece of old tat?! I've heard it all now Tim! Still the best race shoe for me although I have very recently got some Adios Pro 3s which I'm seriously considering using at Valencia Half. Good video, like all the stat stuff. Look forward to the vest off. Do Soar not make Walton AC vests for you? The only Soar piece of kit that I own is the Chasers vest and that's because they're discounted as club vests. Think we pay about £44 for one via the club. They are so light, lightest vest I've ever ran in. I won't be buying any gear directly from Soar for ££££ though even if every other TH-cam video I watch has some 'runfluencer' offering me a 15% off code. Would need to be about 65% off for me to even consider!
I asked Soar about club vests but minimum order is 20 I think and did not seem much appetite for it. I often use my Adios Pro 3 for either longish runs or some intervals. I like it as a sort of super trainer but in my size still just a bit heavier than the two on test here so never really felt like wanting to race in it. Vaporfly 1 still I think my favourite but feel got to find the successor and despite too roomy toe box for me out of the box, the VF3 is doing ok for me now.
Great comparison, Tim. For me, VAP3 is too much soft and less responsive than VAP1. Elite is a better shoe than VAP3 and is the only shoe that feels similar closer on ride experience with VAP1 but smoother than Nike.
It is an odd one the VF3. You are right it does feel softer than the VF1 and not as responsive. However when I have been going for it in races or fast sessions it seems to respond well and indeed my fastest 5K this year was in the VF3 and I did a recent road mile in them. I wore a pair of VF1 today for a parkrun with a bit of a drag out and although they feel very familiar can say my performance today was any better. Indeed I think it has got to the point now where the differences between these shoes are quite small and it is now mainly just about what you like to wear. So on that I like the Elite but perhaps still just a slight edge to the Vaporflys for me and then I prefer the VF1 but very questionable as to whether there is any performance difference over the VF3. The VF2 I tend to use as a training shoe these days - so like a super trainer as never liked them as much as the VF1 or probably VF3. That said my best shorter road race (so outside the 2 Seville Marathons did in 2020 & 2023) was a 10K in the VF2 early last year. I wore same shoe again later that summer and was probably my best race of the year albeit was a very hot day.
Just remember Tim, I've got a pair of the VF V1, box fresh, UK13, in Watermelon, should you need to do a comparison in a couple of years time to convince yourself they're still the best 🙂👍
Not every second of every one especially the "numbers" :) She is now quite happy to do her little cameos and likes to see what comments she gets especially when people say she is a treasure etc etc !
@TimGrose no but I'm interested in the elite as they are doing the same foam in the pro and speed 4. And the pro is very high on my favourite shoes at the moment
@@fabsterunI was kind of expecting the ride in the Endorphin Elite to feel very different to the Endorphin Pro 3 as other reviewers had implied but can't say I found it that much different. Tend to think these Endorphin ones are closest to the Vaporflys on feel but really I think the Elite and Pro 3 are still closer to each other than to any other shoe I have tried. Little harder to directly compare the Speed 3 to these as more of a differentiation now been race shoes and more of a lightweight daily trainer I tend to use the Speed 3 as.
@TimGrose for sure but looks like the 4 is getting a complete redesign . I might just get an extra pair of pro 3's for me it's just the perfect shoe for pretty much anything
Great shoe off Tim. Sounds like there wasn't a huge difference in performance and it mainly came down to a difference in fit and taste. Shame about the lack of trains to finish 🤣👍
Yeah that seems to be the way things are going isn't it. Some reviewers look at about 6 different shoes every week then do a video saying all need are these two yet rarely seem to run in them. Does get confusing for the viewers so hope this sort of video leaves you with a feeling that there is not much in it these days and so go with what "feels" best for you. That said I do feel this wasn't necessarily the best representation of a longer flat road race these are designed for so may well have another go. At least I did not get "stuck" one side of the train barrier. Could be annoying mid a goal pace effort to have to then run on the spot for a bit or even run "backwards" LOL. BTW when is your Downs Link video launching?
@@TimGrose it's funny that you mentioned the level crossing Tim. There is one in Chilworth about 200 meters from the finish of the Downslink and I was desperate not to get caught by it so close to the end 🤣 My video should be out later today I think mate. It's all done just need to do all the admin bits 🤣👍
@@BenNotley ah yes I have covered that area and indeed it is the exact same railway line - surely one of the most remote ones with the most level crossings at least "down South". In fact was doing a shoeoff on that road one time but at least with those can just do a U turn. Back in the day did a duathlon around Hampton and we were told you have to stop at red lights on the bike. In a way good such events have largely gone now. Too much traffic.
I have given up with power of late and so have not used my Stryd for a good while (and only showed Garmin power here for completeness) perhaps partly for these reasons. I felt was trying downhill here at least as much as uphill and oddly the GAP pace was still "faster" downhill and yet the power was less.
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Loving my Vaporfly 3 so far Tim. Best fit and lockdown out of any versions so far, great upper for wet and hot running. Lighter, more bounce and snap than v1 I think. Amazing outsole in the wet. Just works so well for me who forefoot strike. Nike nailed this one that I got another pair for £160! I want the Elite too having loved the Endorphin Pro 3 but doesn't seem to be going for sales and I can't justify paying full price for the Elites when I can get Vaporfly 2 or 3 for well under £150 now!
Yeah the Vaporfly 3 has worked well - including the session I did the other day on my birthday and my latest video. Initially I found the upper was a bit wide for me but after pulling in the laces a lot, it fits me well now. I did another pair of the VF2 in the current sale so now have 2 of them unused in a box. I always thought I liked the VF1 most but the VF3 may take that crown. Never liked the VF2 as much but way better than most shoes I have so get a lot of use out of them in training. Endorphin Elite or Pro 3 have also used a fair bit of late - think my favourites after the Vaporflys. Elite has been useful of late as puts very little pressure on my Achilles at the back or tendons on either side of my left foot which have been troubling me a few months now. Glad I got to try the Elite but it does seem a bit overpriced as you say.
Great analysis Tim.. it does sound like most reviews put the 2 shoes on par and as you say boils down to personal preference
Yeah it does seem to be going that way. That said in hindsight I may give this another go on a longer flatter loop to better model typical road race conditions. What I thought was going to be a fairly flat lane turned out to have an average gradient of 2.5% ! At least it was essentially traffic free as was an effective dead end for cars.
Imo most of the so-called supershoes provide very similar performance in reality and agree totally with u that it's more about how a particular shoe feels wen running....and in that respect, they do vary A LOT.....
Yeah in my first shoeoff I compared the Vaporfly 1 with a load of "tempo" types shoes like the Rincon 1, Zoom Fly 3, Adios 6 & even Peg Turbos and the Vaporfly was a clear "winner" whichever way you looked at it. Just felt faster as soon as started running and I was actually having to hold back to try and get similar times to the others to better compare HR and power. These days, as you say, differences very marginal if any although would have been nice to try the Evo 1 !
Thanks for the shoutout:) Yes, those Pro Evos are excellent and my favorite but no game-changer in any regard other than weight.
And interesting how different perceptions are here. I used the VF3 this morning on a moderate run and was thinking how I much prefer the Elite because the VF3 is just too soft and sinking feeling on footstrike, and it doesn't roll my forward as much.
Ah that's "funny" as that is essentially what I was saying in reverse. I do think however that the VF3 does not feel that great unless you are going for it whereas the VF1 especially I thought was nicer to run any speed in. Reminded me a bit of Fuelcell in the RC Elite 2 or even Rebel 2. If I "tried" in that soft foam it seemed to sort of firm up and then was fine. Or maybe it is just when you try you just need to get on with it and concentrate on putting one foot in front of the other. When going slower there is so much more "time" to think about anything and everything.
Yeah maybe the VF3 doesn' t feel so good going easy because they' re just so stiff, and you need to be putting some real pressure in it to even bend the Carbon plate.
Do you even need good shoes now that you have a Soar vest?:)@@TimGrose
I’m convicted the main differentiator of the Vaporrfly is the plate stiffness. Compared to the other carbon plates other brands use the Nike plate is considerably more flexible. Definitely not a wet noodle but that flex works with the ZoomX to provide the “ZoomX” feel, that is often missing in a pure ZoomX shoe whereas it just feels soft.
I’ve been spending alot of time in the VF3 lately, at a range of paces and have really noticed this flex in the shoe, with some ground feel too, even in a fresh out of the box model. The softer foam in the VF3, compared to the VF1/2 makes this sensation even more present. Therefore, it looses a bit on the shorter harder efforts but is more civil for the medium to long efforts (like a half/full).
That actually leaves room for where the Streakfly 2 seems to be portioning as well.
Interesting changes afoot and Nike I suspect.
Great to see your spreadsheet data as always backing up your impressions!
I filmed another Shoeoff tonight but on flat ground for longer and still thought the VF3 felt a little easier but this time was careful to run more or less exactly the same. For me the more arch support seems a factor I only just noticed yesterday. Lot of runners complain about that but clearly it helps me. Interesting about the plate. These carbon racers although we describe them as soft are more like the norm. I think of really soft as something over the top like Fuelcell or Invincible. Do you think the VF3 feels softer than before just because there is 2mm more foam this time. I did feel the plate today a bit in both shoes. Both are nice so almost looking for very small differences to pick a winner even when the spreadsheet is a bit inconclusive. Pity running power meters aren’t really that useful for these sort of comparisons too.
@@TimGrose I think the VF3 feels softer because the foam IS softer. The "firmness" people describe has more to do with the sculpting of the midsole sidewalls, crash zones and flex areas. The shoe also flares out on the bottom of the midsole near the outsole, instead of rounding inward like the VF1/2, which makes the VF3 feel more "firmer" as there is much less side-to-side roll.
It's also odd, I too just noticed the arch on my recent few runs in the VF3. I've NEVER noticed it before on a VF or AF (or any Nike shoe). It doesn't bother me and I have strong/natural arches, but i do notice it now... odd that.
Our testing agrees with that view
Really interesting video Tim, was considering the Elites, but might stick with the Vaporfly now
I think if you fancied a change then worth considering the Elite as certainly they go OK. Then again are they better then probably not IMHO.
I think you're right about the "bounce", my Elites don't feel like trampolines which was my takeaway from trying Vaporflys, which were unfortunately uncomfortable for me. I think the Elite gets a bit of its speed from having such a steep roll-off at the toe?
I tend to toe off in my all shoes and normally I see the most wear under my toes but I can't say the Elites offer anything "special" there for me. All very marginal though and glad I got the Elite as think of all my "racing" shoes it would now be the one I would reach for first if I didn't take out a Vaporfly. That said I probably still need to further test it on some longer "up tempo" runs. I do recall after a session in them that a few miles obviously slow warm down wasn't the "best" but equally a shoe not designed for easy runs as it were.
such comprehensive stuff!!! great details... were you out last night wearing.a high viz jacket, running down the straight road towards the sciley isles roundabout ? just picked a pair of endorphin pro 3, very different from my Altra trail shoe but loving them...!
Hello James - thanks. Not guilty there - was running in Headley at dusk last night in my Soar "paid for" vest. Can''t be many runners as tall as me near us though! I did wear my Pro 3 the other day for comparison and did think was certainly similar to the Elite. Raced in the Pro 3 once - the Wedding Day 7K and did fine. Me less so LOL. Yeah imagine rather different from an Altra. Zero drop shoes just "scare" me. I often find say 5mm a bit "much".
@@TimGrose ah, it was dark but the chap was certainly tall, with a pair of bright large trainers !
Very interesting comparison Tim, thanks. I recently was doing a similar comparison (for an upcoming Half in few weeks) between VF3 , Asics MetaSpeed Sky+ and AP3 and was puzzled to see, on similar sessions (same speeds , same segments), metrics like GCT, VerticalOscillation, Cadence , Strlen, HR were very very close .. I coudn't literaly spot a winner to be honest (I was expecting to see way more deviation from the mean depening on the shoe). I'm thinking probably because either I'm a forefoot/midfoot striker OR (as some professionals who analyzed my gait said) my running gait is fairly efficient and therefore differences are less obvious? I feel this is what you're saying at around 7:34 (meaning difficult to say which shoe is best) but during your tests did you ever happen to see a shoe really standing out w.r.t these metrics? My conclusion was that - since usual metrics didn't spot a winner - I would rather choose depending on confort and VF3 to me is likely the best (I feel like ZoomX is forgiving and the day after hard sessions my legs aren't barking like with other foam compounds).
My first shoeoff was almost 4 years ago and then the Vaporfly 1 was noticeably better than everything else both in the metrics (HR lower and was hard not to just run faster than I wanted to for best comparisons) but the comparisons then were with flats and lightweight trainers. Indeed in the Shoeoff I did for my latest video on the Soar vest with again Endorphin Elite vs Vaporfly 3 the metrics were even closer but “on feel” I still am leaning to the Vaporfly 3. I feel I can best detect those subtle differences if wear shoes one after another. Very individual though and good to get these discussions going. In a way good now that little difference between what is on offer. Maybe the Evo 1 will take things forward a step more but from what have heard only on weight not really the ride which may or may not suit everybody.
Great video pal. What would you say is the fastest shoe for an all out 5k ?
Not much in it TBH. Personally would go for the VF3 and my fastest 5K last 2 years was in the VF3.
@@TimGrose yeah most people tend to agree. The only super shoe I have ever tried is the vf3 and is my current shoe for race day. So no need to change ?
I focus on mile-5k
@@slenjamiah not really but there is always the factor of just having new shoes and/or trying something different.
Great video Tim.
I concur with your comments, the VP line have consistently felt like they want to push you on faster.
I have a theory about this, based on some of our slo-mo video.
I can't say too much for now, but I suspect the VP has a speed variation, because the plate is unique compared to all others.
It seems to have stiff sections and flexible sections.
This could radically change how the plate functions as speed changes, based on ground contact time.
i.e. with low GC, i.e. running fast in most people, the bend causes the plate to act like a spring lever.
But this doesn't increase vertical movement, it *may* contribute to the movement of the foot up and back towards the buttock.
This would act to shorten the lever and allow the drive of the knee through faster.
This might be why many people report the VP feeling *light* despite similar weight to other shoes.
Ah very interesting. Are you going to do your own video on this? Certainly something about the Vaporflys that other brands don’t seem to be able to really improve on well maybe save for the elusive Evo 1. On weight they are the lightest of the ones I use albeit not my that much.
@@TimGrose I am, but currently under embargo.
Very interesting as you are a Vaporfly man 🎉
Maybe there is an element of conscious bias here in that performance wise hard was really hard to say one or the other was "better" but on feel it "felt" like it was a little "easier" in the Vaporfly 3 and also I felt they fit my foot shape slightly better especially with more arch support. Probably need to try for longer reps on "easier" flatter roads to more mirror how it would be in an actual road race.
Vaporfly 1's are a piece of old tat?! I've heard it all now Tim! Still the best race shoe for me although I have very recently got some Adios Pro 3s which I'm seriously considering using at Valencia Half.
Good video, like all the stat stuff. Look forward to the vest off. Do Soar not make Walton AC vests for you? The only Soar piece of kit that I own is the Chasers vest and that's because they're discounted as club vests. Think we pay about £44 for one via the club. They are so light, lightest vest I've ever ran in. I won't be buying any gear directly from Soar for ££££ though even if every other TH-cam video I watch has some 'runfluencer' offering me a 15% off code. Would need to be about 65% off for me to even consider!
I asked Soar about club vests but minimum order is 20 I think and did not seem much appetite for it. I often use my Adios Pro 3 for either longish runs or some intervals. I like it as a sort of super trainer but in my size still just a bit heavier than the two on test here so never really felt like wanting to race in it. Vaporfly 1 still I think my favourite but feel got to find the successor and despite too roomy toe box for me out of the box, the VF3 is doing ok for me now.
Great comparison, Tim. For me, VAP3 is too much soft and less responsive than VAP1. Elite is a better shoe than VAP3 and is the only shoe that feels similar closer on ride experience with VAP1 but smoother than Nike.
It is an odd one the VF3. You are right it does feel softer than the VF1 and not as responsive. However when I have been going for it in races or fast sessions it seems to respond well and indeed my fastest 5K this year was in the VF3 and I did a recent road mile in them. I wore a pair of VF1 today for a parkrun with a bit of a drag out and although they feel very familiar can say my performance today was any better. Indeed I think it has got to the point now where the differences between these shoes are quite small and it is now mainly just about what you like to wear. So on that I like the Elite but perhaps still just a slight edge to the Vaporflys for me and then I prefer the VF1 but very questionable as to whether there is any performance difference over the VF3. The VF2 I tend to use as a training shoe these days - so like a super trainer as never liked them as much as the VF1 or probably VF3. That said my best shorter road race (so outside the 2 Seville Marathons did in 2020 & 2023) was a 10K in the VF2 early last year. I wore same shoe again later that summer and was probably my best race of the year albeit was a very hot day.
@@TimGrose thanks a lot. You are an awesome reviewer💪😉
Just remember Tim, I've got a pair of the VF V1, box fresh, UK13, in Watermelon, should you need to do a comparison in a couple of years time to convince yourself they're still the best 🙂👍
Ah good to know. Am sort of trying to explore other options than the VF1 as my actual race shoe but do still think it is my favourite.
😂😂Don’t tell Sue!! She doesn’t watch every video Tim??😂😂
Not every second of every one especially the "numbers" :) She is now quite happy to do her little cameos and likes to see what comments she gets especially when people say she is a treasure etc etc !
@@TimGrose Ohhh of course!!! Clearly it’s a pleasure to be popular!! 😊
First 🥇 actually the vid i was waiting for
Can't remember if you got either of these two?
@TimGrose no but I'm interested in the elite as they are doing the same foam in the pro and speed 4. And the pro is very high on my favourite shoes at the moment
@@fabsterunI was kind of expecting the ride in the Endorphin Elite to feel very different to the Endorphin Pro 3 as other reviewers had implied but can't say I found it that much different. Tend to think these Endorphin ones are closest to the Vaporflys on feel but really I think the Elite and Pro 3 are still closer to each other than to any other shoe I have tried. Little harder to directly compare the Speed 3 to these as more of a differentiation now been race shoes and more of a lightweight daily trainer I tend to use the Speed 3 as.
@TimGrose for sure but looks like the 4 is getting a complete redesign . I might just get an extra pair of pro 3's for me it's just the perfect shoe for pretty much anything
@@fabsterun Any idea when the 4 (Pro and/or Speed) is meant to be coming out?
Great shoe off Tim. Sounds like there wasn't a huge difference in performance and it mainly came down to a difference in fit and taste. Shame about the lack of trains to finish 🤣👍
Yeah that seems to be the way things are going isn't it. Some reviewers look at about 6 different shoes every week then do a video saying all need are these two yet rarely seem to run in them. Does get confusing for the viewers so hope this sort of video leaves you with a feeling that there is not much in it these days and so go with what "feels" best for you. That said I do feel this wasn't necessarily the best representation of a longer flat road race these are designed for so may well have another go. At least I did not get "stuck" one side of the train barrier. Could be annoying mid a goal pace effort to have to then run on the spot for a bit or even run "backwards" LOL. BTW when is your Downs Link video launching?
@@TimGrose it's funny that you mentioned the level crossing Tim. There is one in Chilworth about 200 meters from the finish of the Downslink and I was desperate not to get caught by it so close to the end 🤣 My video should be out later today I think mate. It's all done just need to do all the admin bits 🤣👍
@@BenNotley ah yes I have covered that area and indeed it is the exact same railway line - surely one of the most remote ones with the most level crossings at least "down South". In fact was doing a shoeoff on that road one time but at least with those can just do a U turn. Back in the day did a duathlon around Hampton and we were told you have to stop at red lights on the bike. In a way good such events have largely gone now. Too much traffic.
Stryd always showing me less power in the down hill even though I run faster and harder..
I have given up with power of late and so have not used my Stryd for a good while (and only showed Garmin power here for completeness) perhaps partly for these reasons. I felt was trying downhill here at least as much as uphill and oddly the GAP pace was still "faster" downhill and yet the power was less.
@@TimGrose I stopped paying for the Stryd subscription and now it has really not giving me much..